WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>I was really annoyed that we are building this new

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<v Speaker 1>kind of financial system and yet we're not using it.

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<v Speaker 1>Crypto companies have historically had trouble getting bank accounts. We

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<v Speaker 1>have these like Telegram support crew trying to figure out

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<v Speaker 1>which banks will even talk to you.

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<v Speaker 2>It's ten years from now, it's twenty thirty five. Are

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<v Speaker 2>stable coins running through the rails of the economy of

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<v Speaker 2>payroll or sending money overseas? Buy some coffee?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think unquestionably yes.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a great crypto platform that makes it easy to buy, sell,

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<v Speaker 2>and stake crypto assets. Uphold has over three hundred plus cryptocurrencies,

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<v Speaker 2>including bitcoin in all the top all coins, and they

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<v Speaker 2>offer a crypto staking on over nineteen crypto assets. I've

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<v Speaker 2>been a user of the platform for many years. They

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<v Speaker 2>are safe and reliable, they don't commingle or lend out

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<v Speaker 2>your crypto funds, and they are one hundred percent reserved.

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<v Speaker 2>You can review their transparency report. Uphold also offers an

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<v Speaker 2>amazing rewards program where you can earn up the five

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<v Speaker 2>point two five percent on stable coins. This rewards program

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<v Speaker 2>also allows you to get twenty four hour early access

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<v Speaker 2>to new tokens that they list, and to participate, you

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<v Speaker 2>just simply have to open the app once per month,

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<v Speaker 2>deposit fifty dollars once per month, and trade fifty dollars

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<v Speaker 2>once per month. And the stable coins that they support

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<v Speaker 2>includes Ripples, r L, USD. You can earn up the

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<v Speaker 2>five percent on that stable coin and five point two

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<v Speaker 2>five percent on USBC. So if you'd like to learn

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<v Speaker 2>more about uphold and all the great services they offer,

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<v Speaker 2>visit the link in the description. Hey folks, welcome into

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<v Speaker 2>the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and

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<v Speaker 2>joining me is Megan Nab who is the founder and

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<v Speaker 2>CEO of Franklin. Megan, great to have you.

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<v Speaker 1>Great to be here, Megan.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm excited to learn more about Franklin and all the

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<v Speaker 2>great solutions you're building for businesses to handle their finances

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<v Speaker 2>both on and off chain. As we've seen crypto adoption

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<v Speaker 2>continue to grow, stable coin legislation has passed into law,

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<v Speaker 2>so I think it's very timely I'm chatting with you,

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<v Speaker 2>But let's kick it off with your background. Tell us

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<v Speaker 2>a bit about yourself, where you're from, and your professional background.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah sure, well, thanks again for having me excited to chat. Yeah. Background,

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<v Speaker 1>native New Yorker, lived in New York most of my life.

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<v Speaker 1>I got ended up getting into crypto actually sort of

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<v Speaker 1>by being a New Yorker. In my early twenties, I

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<v Speaker 1>was living in Bushwick, Brooklyn, with like a zillion roommates.

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<v Speaker 1>I was working on Wall Street, going to business school

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<v Speaker 1>at night. I would spend my weekends doing my grad

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<v Speaker 1>school homework in a cafe in Bushwick that happened to

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<v Speaker 1>be the Swallow Cafe, which was right below the Consensus

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<v Speaker 1>Office which Consensus was an early venture product studio in

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<v Speaker 1>the Ethereum space back in twenty sixteen, and happened to

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<v Speaker 1>just meet some people that worked there and got hooked

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<v Speaker 1>on crypto for a lot of different reasons, but one

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<v Speaker 1>of them was proximity. So that's a very like quick

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<v Speaker 1>quick background on myself. AM a classically trained accountant, worked

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<v Speaker 1>as a staff accountant for a couple of years and

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<v Speaker 1>really like got excited about the Ethereum space, specifically initially

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<v Speaker 1>as a way to create open source accounting standards and

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<v Speaker 1>so have been doing a bunch of wonky accounting technology

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<v Speaker 1>out of initiatives since since then.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what you guys, you were talking about being

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<v Speaker 2>in Bushwick at one point. I think it was twenty sixteen.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was. I was living in Bushwick temporarily

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<v Speaker 2>as my wife and I were transitioning to move to

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<v Speaker 2>Jersey to Hoboken, So I we I'm at some point. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we may have crossed paths not knowing each other. But

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<v Speaker 2>it's so funny how the world works. And and and

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<v Speaker 2>I you know, we were in Brooklyn Highs for a

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<v Speaker 2>while as well. You know you mentioned Consensus and the

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<v Speaker 2>folks at etherorem and they're based in Brooklyn and been

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<v Speaker 2>building for years. So it's so amazing how things have

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<v Speaker 2>changed from small, small, startup, small industry to now this

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<v Speaker 2>huge financial movement and new asset class.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, yeah, looking at things in retrospect, it is

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<v Speaker 1>shocking how much has happened in less than a decade.

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<v Speaker 1>I went to the Consensus offices in Bushwick actually a

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<v Speaker 1>couple months ago for the first time in a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's funny, like a lot of it, it's still

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<v Speaker 1>the same, but so much as the context is all different.

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<v Speaker 1>So certainly like a thrilling industry to be in, and

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't want to be anywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Else absolutely, So tell us about what led to the

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<v Speaker 2>founding of Franklin. Where did the idea come from.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Franklin has. It was sort of just born

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<v Speaker 1>out of frustration that I had personally doing accounting for

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<v Speaker 1>Web three companies. It's my second startup, you know, after

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<v Speaker 1>my last startup ended spent some time consulting doing basically

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<v Speaker 1>just like fractional CFO services for different startups in the

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<v Speaker 1>Web three space. And something that I noticed was all

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<v Speaker 1>these companies are using the same kind of tradfy stack

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<v Speaker 1>to build their businesses that you know, every other startup

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<v Speaker 1>outside of Crypto was using. And I was so frustrated

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<v Speaker 1>by that, and I was really annoyed that, like, we

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<v Speaker 1>are building this new kind of financial system and yet

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<v Speaker 1>we're not using it. So, yeah, born out of frustration,

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<v Speaker 1>and so you know, I had a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a background doing startup be things myself and started prototyping

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<v Speaker 1>Franklin within a company that I was working at called Serotonin,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a Web three marketing studio as well as

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<v Speaker 1>a venture product studio, kind of like you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>second generation. A lot of people that worked at Consensus

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<v Speaker 1>were working at Serotonin, so it was like very easy

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<v Speaker 1>for me to land there, but yeah, as the person

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<v Speaker 1>running finance and you know, trying to help guide some

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<v Speaker 1>strategy and how can we differentiate ourselves in market and

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<v Speaker 1>how can we track Like the top web three to

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<v Speaker 1>to come and work with us was, yeah, how do

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<v Speaker 1>we start using this technology for ourselves internally? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>what pieces of financial operations could we bring on chain?

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<v Speaker 1>We had a lot of issues with managing payroll we

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<v Speaker 1>had you know, when I got there, there were ten people.

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<v Speaker 1>We grew it to over sixty people all around the world.

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<v Speaker 1>The pandemic happened, everybody moved to or was initially doing

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<v Speaker 1>remote working. So it seemed like a really good use

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<v Speaker 1>case to figure out, like how can we enable this borderless,

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<v Speaker 1>permissionless technology on our balance sheet. So prototyped it within

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<v Speaker 1>Serotonin and then kind of before I knew it, we

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<v Speaker 1>were spinning out, raising around, getting our first customers, hiring

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<v Speaker 1>our team. Kind of a whirlwind moment.

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<v Speaker 2>That's awesome and congrats, and you know, it's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>the true entrepreneur's journey. You found a problem and you

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to build a solution, and obviously you were very

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<v Speaker 2>frustrated by that problem. So that's that's really cool. Now

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<v Speaker 2>it break down to different services and solutions you offer

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<v Speaker 2>for those who may not be familiar with the whole

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<v Speaker 2>payroll set up, and how finances work on the back

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<v Speaker 2>end for businesses, and how you're integrating crypto there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I think when you're looking to hire your

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<v Speaker 1>first employee into a business, there's like a very steep

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<v Speaker 1>learning curve, especially when you're operating in the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>There are a lot of labor regulations, there are a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of tax nuances depending on where you operate. And

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<v Speaker 1>the thing about like being in the US is every

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<v Speaker 1>state kind of acts like its own country in a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of ways, So you have a lot of administrative overhead.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's some level of like how do we make

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<v Speaker 1>this administrative overhead attainable and put it into these byte

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<v Speaker 1>sized pieces for companies that are just getting started. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>three years ago when I started the company, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>most of the businesses in the web three space were

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<v Speaker 1>just like very early stage startups figuring out how to

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<v Speaker 1>like bootstrap to get together or they're just you know,

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<v Speaker 1>getting in their first round of VC funding, so figuring

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<v Speaker 1>out how do we go from like that zero to

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<v Speaker 1>one and help them just start doing everything above board.

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<v Speaker 1>The next piece is, yeah, like the money movement. So

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<v Speaker 1>crypto companies have historically had trouble getting bank accounts and

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<v Speaker 1>being able to maintain those bank accounts. So this is

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<v Speaker 1>an area that like I have struggled with. We have

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<v Speaker 1>these like telegram almost like support groups of people who

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<v Speaker 1>work in crypto finance trying to figure out you know,

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<v Speaker 1>which banks are we'll even talk to you in the

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<v Speaker 1>first place. So there was another level of like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>here is a set of vendors that we can create

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<v Speaker 1>repeatable processes with so that companies can start up. And

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<v Speaker 1>then what parts of those processes can we be moving

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<v Speaker 1>on chain in a way that is maintaining a good

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<v Speaker 1>user experience, making sure that you're now creating a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of accounting overhead, and then also yeah, it's just faster, cheaper,

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<v Speaker 1>and also compliant from like a HR labor regulation perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes companies, you know, I've seen kind of get into

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<v Speaker 1>a tough spot where they are operating doing a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of things on chain and then they have to go

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<v Speaker 1>back and pay an outsourced accounting firm like one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars that they don't really have or can't really

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<v Speaker 1>ford just to clean up their books, and so figuring

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<v Speaker 1>out how do we make sure all that stuff is

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<v Speaker 1>easily kind of attainable from from day one was part

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<v Speaker 1>of our you know, go to market thesis. There are

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of pieces, honestly, but those are some of

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<v Speaker 1>the first ones that we kind of started trying to tackle.

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<v Speaker 2>So are you using primarily E theorem as to power

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<v Speaker 2>some of these services or are you using other blockchains

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<v Speaker 2>or do you have a layer two? How's that set up? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we launched initially actually on Polygon. We are EVM

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<v Speaker 1>based and the crypto side of Franklin is all non

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<v Speaker 1>custodial smart contracts, So yeah, you can operate on a

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<v Speaker 1>theory mainenet, you can be on their layer twos like Optimism, Arbitrum, Base,

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera. We have customers across all of those chains,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is this other just kind of like innovation

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<v Speaker 1>in payroll tech in general, where you can actually have

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<v Speaker 1>a non custodial payroll product. And really all that Franklin

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<v Speaker 1>is doing is helping you calculate an account for the payroll,

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<v Speaker 1>but all of the money movement sits with you and

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<v Speaker 1>your employees or contractors or whatever. So, yeah, smart contracts

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<v Speaker 1>are awesome and they're the base of like our crypto

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<v Speaker 1>kind of tech stack.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's walk through a kind of a mock scenario here.

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<v Speaker 2>I have the Thinking crypto podcast business. It's a small business,

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<v Speaker 2>but I have a video editor, I have a podcast

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<v Speaker 2>tech and they want to get paid in stable coins.

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<v Speaker 2>Can Franklin help me to do that? And how would

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<v Speaker 2>you help me to execute that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, one hundred percent they can. So basically, when

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<v Speaker 1>you sign a company up with a Franklin account, we

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<v Speaker 1>will deploy a smart contract under the hood that sits.

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<v Speaker 1>You can interact with it through our app. You can

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<v Speaker 1>also interact with it outside of our app if you prefer,

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<v Speaker 1>and if you're comfortable kind of like making on chain

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<v Speaker 1>smart contract calls. But basically, you get your own smart contract.

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<v Speaker 1>Funds are never co mingled with another company smart contract

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<v Speaker 1>or anything like that. That's another thing that's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>unique about, you know, our architecture. And then when your

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<v Speaker 1>workers sign up, like they sign up for any sort

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<v Speaker 1>of payroll account or like build dot com account, they

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<v Speaker 1>can connect a wallet and by that kind of like connection,

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<v Speaker 1>it ensures that you're always paying the right person. Every

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<v Speaker 1>single time we've seen crypto payments companies go through, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like hacks or cybersecurity things by manual data

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<v Speaker 1>entry or needing to do file uploads. This on chain

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<v Speaker 1>smart contract signature ensures that never is a problem. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's roughly how it works. There are a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of other ways it can work too. If your company

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<v Speaker 1>only has FIAT like USD and a bank account and

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<v Speaker 1>you want to settle it out and and stable coins,

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<v Speaker 1>we can also do that. If you want to fund

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<v Speaker 1>payroll in stable coins, then have it settle in your

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<v Speaker 1>employee bank accounts in FIAT, we can also do that.

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<v Speaker 1>So there are a lot of different permutations of how

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<v Speaker 1>it can work. We do work with some companies that

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<v Speaker 1>are really they have absolutely nothing to do with crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>and we are just moving stable coins under the hood

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<v Speaker 1>for them to have a faster payroll cycle, which is

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<v Speaker 1>something that I'm really excited about. I think it's the

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<v Speaker 1>future of payments tech. But yeah, there's there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>a lot you can do.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to double click on what you just said

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<v Speaker 2>there with making the payroll cycle faster. Even though those

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<v Speaker 2>folks have nothing to do with crypto, they don't even

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<v Speaker 2>know maybe that's happening. How are you pitching that though?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you telling them that this is being settled or

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<v Speaker 2>being moved with stable coins. I'm just curious, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>how you present that to them, given that to your point,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the future because people are going to be

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<v Speaker 2>interacting with stable coins whether they know it or not. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean to be honest, and I like extremely

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<v Speaker 1>naively when some of these companies first, we were not

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<v Speaker 1>pitching them at all, Like they had some kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like forward thinking bookkeeper in their back office being like

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<v Speaker 1>I heard, we can actually run payments faster if we're

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<v Speaker 1>using stable coins, and like they googled us and found us,

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<v Speaker 1>which was like very exciting to see, honestly. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there are a lot of businesses out there

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<v Speaker 1>that have really compressed cash flows that like really put

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of pressure on their business. We've seen an

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<v Speaker 1>industry kind of like pop up around extracting value from

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<v Speaker 1>those companies that are just trying to live paycheck to paycheck,

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<v Speaker 1>so to speak. That should not be the case, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>So the fact that you have all these middlemen between

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<v Speaker 1>you and your workers or you and your customers, you

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<v Speaker 1>know this idea that we can be using stable coins

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<v Speaker 1>as a tool as a different kind of orchestration level

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<v Speaker 1>of USD and speed up fun flows. It can totally

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<v Speaker 1>change business models, it can totally changed compensation models, and

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<v Speaker 1>so that's like really what we're excited about. I think,

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<v Speaker 1>like in terms of the messaging, I don't think we've

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<v Speaker 1>cracked the right messaging for it yet. You know, there's

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<v Speaker 1>so much kind of like fud I would say still

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<v Speaker 1>among like the general population around crypto. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>stable points have a little bit of a different narrative

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<v Speaker 1>as of like you know, maybe a month ago or

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<v Speaker 1>with the advent of like the Genius Act, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>just being in the headlines more in the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, it is I think still kind of

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<v Speaker 1>at this level of being like a little technical sciance.

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<v Speaker 1>Like if you're talking to an accountant who has some

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<v Speaker 1>like level of familiarity, it's an easy conversation to have

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<v Speaker 1>to say, hey, we can move some of this on chain.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no intermediary, you know, like that's it. It's just

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<v Speaker 1>you and your money, and we can help you figure

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<v Speaker 1>out how to do that. But I would say, for

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<v Speaker 1>like the population is really not something that is easily consumable.

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<v Speaker 2>Yet yeah, there are the education aspects still need to

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<v Speaker 2>be done there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And there's something else that I think is a

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<v Speaker 1>little insidious about the stable coins space and the prolition

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<v Speaker 1>proliferation of stable coins recently, which is a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>these stable coins are sitting in these walled gardens still

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<v Speaker 1>and they're not that different from payments networks like ach

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<v Speaker 1>or Swift because they're being totally custodied by banks or

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<v Speaker 1>by other payments networks, And basically the value add is

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<v Speaker 1>it's helping their bottom line and end users. Actually, if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at using stable coins on you know, PayPal

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<v Speaker 1>or some of these others, right, which no offense to

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<v Speaker 1>those technologists that are building that tech, but it's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more expensive for the end user. And where's the

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<v Speaker 1>innovation in that. The innovation of stable coins is that

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<v Speaker 1>they can be non custodial and and I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>something that we have to kind of keep a critical

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<v Speaker 1>eye on as we see more of these trad fi

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<v Speaker 1>companies starting to leverage stable coins, Like is it actually

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<v Speaker 1>benefiting the end user or not?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because a big part of it, many of them

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<v Speaker 2>see the money tether's making they want to cut that revenue.

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<v Speaker 2>They want to have the payout some of the treasury

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<v Speaker 2>holding the debt and so forth. And yes, it's backing there,

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<v Speaker 2>it's in part of the reserves. But they're making a killing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's kind of the business almost versus hey, we

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<v Speaker 2>want to make payments faster.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Two part question which stable coins are you supporting? And

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<v Speaker 2>let's say my podcast sech once you get paid in

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<v Speaker 2>bitcoin or Salon or XRP, can you facilitate that as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So we are not very prescriptive about the kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of assets that our customers want to use. There are

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<v Speaker 1>some limitations depending if you want to be off ramping

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<v Speaker 1>or on ramping between fiat. The most popular one that

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<v Speaker 1>our customers use by far is you SDC, which is

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<v Speaker 1>issued by Circle that just went public this year. Some

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<v Speaker 1>companies that have more of a global contractor base will

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<v Speaker 1>use Teather, which is just more popular outside of the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. The criteria that we have for supporting assets

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<v Speaker 1>is really we can whitelist them in our app and

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<v Speaker 1>then you know, we do a check to see like

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<v Speaker 1>is it classified as a security. We cannot help or

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<v Speaker 1>do anything in the securities realm since we're not a

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<v Speaker 1>broker dealer, so we'll never touch that kind of stuff. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's kind of the criteria most people want to use USDC.

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<v Speaker 1>That's just like the reality of it. We do have

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<v Speaker 1>some customers that will pay their employees in other kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of assets, like we have one customer that pays their

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<v Speaker 1>team and wrapped bitcoin. So the criteria does have to

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<v Speaker 1>be from a technical side that it has to be

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<v Speaker 1>an EERC twenty token, which is something that can interact

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<v Speaker 1>with a smart contract in an automated fashion. Some things

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<v Speaker 1>like we're going to add support for Solana. We don't

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<v Speaker 1>have Ripple, never met anybody that wants to use Ripple,

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<v Speaker 1>would love to chat to anybody who does. We're really

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<v Speaker 1>much more kind of like demand focused. Do you have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of these kinds of like issuers come to

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<v Speaker 1>us and say, hey, can you make us the preferred

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<v Speaker 1>stable coin or preferred asset, and the answers always know

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<v Speaker 1>it's our customer's choice what they want to use. We're

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<v Speaker 1>rinding for a second, just paying people in other kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of like assets that are not tied to a fiat currency.

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<v Speaker 1>There are a ton of regulations around how that needs

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<v Speaker 1>to work. And that's also one of the special sauces

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<v Speaker 1>of Franklin, which is like, we will make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>you are compliant with the labor regulations of your jurisdiction.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a lot of very interesting legal precedent for

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<v Speaker 1>some of this kind of stuff, which goes back actually

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<v Speaker 1>to Appalasia during the coal mining boom, where you had

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<v Speaker 1>people working for coal mining companies that were getting paid

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<v Speaker 1>and come any certificates and then could only use them

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<v Speaker 1>at the company grocery store, and then you could never

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<v Speaker 1>get out of that economy. And so you know, West

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<v Speaker 1>Virginia with one of these states that actually led a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the modern sort of labor compensation regulations you

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<v Speaker 1>know in the twentieth now twenty first centuries. So you

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<v Speaker 1>have a lot of places say you have to be

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<v Speaker 1>paid in a USD denominated asset. Some states will also

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<v Speaker 1>just explicitly prohibit crypto. They have these like blanket regulations

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<v Speaker 1>which we just can never touch. So that's why it's

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<v Speaker 1>also important to have like this hybrid option where it's

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<v Speaker 1>very hard to operate one hundred percent on chain natively

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<v Speaker 1>right now, So having the spectrum of a flexibility and

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like a nicer user experience packaged up in

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<v Speaker 1>this piece of software is very effective.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely. I love that you guys are agnostic when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to the assets, but you also make sure

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<v Speaker 2>you're following the law and you know, not putting your

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<v Speaker 2>clients at risk, but making sure they everything is copasetic

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<v Speaker 2>with what they're trying to do. So that's really really great.

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<v Speaker 2>And you have the flexibility as well. Do you think

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<v Speaker 2>you know you being a disruptor a startup essentially right,

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<v Speaker 2>and with this new awesome solution, you know, like an

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<v Speaker 2>ADP might come knocking your door saying, hey, we want

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<v Speaker 2>to acquire you when we want to bring you into

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<v Speaker 2>our network or whatever it may be.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, we have talked to a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>these large payroll companies and there is not I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>say it's not like monopoly, but ADP is the biggest

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<v Speaker 1>payroll processor by far, and I think, you know, unless

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<v Speaker 1>you're really nerdy focused on this space, they're really important

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<v Speaker 1>for economic data, like the Bureau of Labor Statistics hasn't

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<v Speaker 1>been in the news recently for a lot of political reasons,

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<v Speaker 1>but ADP is an important indicator for like the broader

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<v Speaker 1>economy around giving insights into private payroll data and employment trends.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's just because they have such a massive reach.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. There there's like they used to call them,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, like the big four piece or the four

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<v Speaker 1>piece something that paychecks, paycore whatever, like these guys take

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the majority of the United States employees are

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<v Speaker 1>getting paid through one of these softwares. We you know,

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<v Speaker 1>are going back to kind of like what I was

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<v Speaker 1>mentioning before, Like I am so excited about cryptotechnology and

388
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<v Speaker 1>have been for so long, and I'm so concerned about

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<v Speaker 1>it getting co opted by these like big brands that

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<v Speaker 1>are using it to extract a value. Like the real

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<v Speaker 1>innovation of this technology and why it's interesting is it

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<v Speaker 1>because it can foster peer to peer transactions. And so

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's our mission, you know, like we do not

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<v Speaker 1>want to become another intermediary that extracts value along like

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<v Speaker 1>the finance chain. But that being said, like we want

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<v Speaker 1>to also kind of have a say in how this

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<v Speaker 1>technology gets deployed. And so you know, all of these

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<v Speaker 1>company are looking at how do youse stable coins and

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<v Speaker 1>if we can have a say and how they can

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<v Speaker 1>use it to be able to facilitate peer to peer,

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<v Speaker 1>non custodial types of transactions, Like we definitely want to

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<v Speaker 1>be as part of those conversations to try and manage

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<v Speaker 1>those outcomes. So that's what I would say there. There

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<v Speaker 1>is like a little bit of, to be honest, like

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<v Speaker 1>a cultural difference where you know, you look at something

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<v Speaker 1>like ADP and the software looks like something that was

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<v Speaker 1>built in nineteen ninety nine and such. Working with such

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<v Speaker 1>a legacy tech stack is really hard, but the distribution

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<v Speaker 1>channels are very appealing. So you know, it's I think

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<v Speaker 1>the thing that every entrepreneur thinks about, whether you know,

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<v Speaker 1>how do you get your investors or returned, and like

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<v Speaker 1>how do you think about the rest of your professional career. Certainly, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>those are the considerations I have.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that makes sense. And you know, I most recently

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<v Speaker 2>interviewed the EVP of Digital Assets and blockchain and MasterCard,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're exactly what you're saying. They're looking at, how

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<v Speaker 2>can we leverage stable coins, USDC or whatever it may

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<v Speaker 2>be to improve payments in certain corridors, And they're you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you can see they're going through their R and D

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<v Speaker 2>and trial and error. So it seems like at some point,

421
00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:11.519
<v Speaker 2>whether it be ADP or whoever they're going to have

422
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:13.319
<v Speaker 2>this moment. Okay, we need to figure out what we're

423
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:15.960
<v Speaker 2>doing here or we're gonna get disrupted. We're gonna lose

424
00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:20.039
<v Speaker 2>market share. Because with the Genius Act pass, we should

425
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.400
<v Speaker 2>see a whole bunch of new stable coins. Banks are

426
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:24.559
<v Speaker 2>talking about launching stable coins like Bank of America and

427
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:28.319
<v Speaker 2>much more, and we'll see which ones survive. But obviously

428
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.319
<v Speaker 2>Tether's king of the held USDC right behind. So it's

429
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:33.240
<v Speaker 2>just fascinating to see how this is all going to

430
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:33.720
<v Speaker 2>play out.

431
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:37.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, super interesting. And you know, I have

432
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:40.799
<v Speaker 1>a past history working in equities brokerage, and I loved

433
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.480
<v Speaker 1>your episode with lad from Robinhood like thinking about like

434
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.319
<v Speaker 1>how digital brokers can, like the equity stack is so

435
00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:54.039
<v Speaker 1>full of legacy tech, and thinking of different ways to

436
00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:58.039
<v Speaker 1>implement blockchains in those flows I think are really effective.

437
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.599
<v Speaker 1>I think that, like, yeah, it's tough. There's a lot

438
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:05.880
<v Speaker 1>of talk around tokenization of assets, which is very cool,

439
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:10.160
<v Speaker 1>but if these like the actual fundamental assets themselves are

440
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:13.400
<v Speaker 1>not living on a blockchain, a tokenized version of it

441
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.440
<v Speaker 1>is higher risk. You know, it's almost like a marketing

442
00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.960
<v Speaker 1>asset in a lot of ways, and so, but it's

443
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:22.759
<v Speaker 1>a great thing to experiment with. Like if we think

444
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.599
<v Speaker 1>about the earlier days of crypto or at least the

445
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:29.640
<v Speaker 1>etherorem space in twenty sixteen, the Ico boom, like it

446
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:33.440
<v Speaker 1>was a massive experiment and like, I think the industry

447
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:35.240
<v Speaker 1>learned a lot from it. And I almost see the

448
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:40.000
<v Speaker 1>same thing happening in with banks, with equities brokers, with

449
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.680
<v Speaker 1>all these kinds of things. So we'll see, we'll see

450
00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:45.000
<v Speaker 1>what the outcomes are and the lessons.

451
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:50.160
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely and hopefully, you know, with the upcoming Clarity Act,

452
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:53.920
<v Speaker 2>that legislation which covers more uh you know, obviously because

453
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:57.160
<v Speaker 2>it's the market structure build it covers DeFi and tokenization

454
00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:59.400
<v Speaker 2>on a lot of different things. That helps to put

455
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:03.240
<v Speaker 2>some guardrail in place. And hopefully we don't see any

456
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:06.519
<v Speaker 2>major collapses or anything like that. But you know, what

457
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:10.240
<v Speaker 2>would that mean for your business we're having that pass

458
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:10.799
<v Speaker 2>into law.

459
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. The I think

460
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:21.960
<v Speaker 1>overall having these pieces of legislation is like a massive

461
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.640
<v Speaker 1>net positive for the industry. It's almost surreal to see

462
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.000
<v Speaker 1>it happening, you know, just having anybody who's worked in

463
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:31.480
<v Speaker 1>the industry for more than five years, like it's wild

464
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>to see it being talked about like at the level

465
00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:36.839
<v Speaker 1>of the White House, to see the like bipartisan legislation

466
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:40.759
<v Speaker 1>going through Congress. As a side note, I have a

467
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:44.200
<v Speaker 1>maybe hot take on US politics, which is like crypto

468
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:46.799
<v Speaker 1>is the thing that will make Congress work again where

469
00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:50.200
<v Speaker 1>we have such a divided country, like the only thing

470
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.000
<v Speaker 1>that people can agree on is crypto and regulating crypto,

471
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:55.759
<v Speaker 1>and you know, maybe that's like build some goodwill to

472
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:58.319
<v Speaker 1>deal with other societal issues that Congress has to work on.

473
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Aside from that, we'll see. I think like the Market

474
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.920
<v Speaker 1>Structure Bill is important. I think one of the things

475
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:11.160
<v Speaker 1>that's like a fundamental issue with how the US regulates

476
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:15.279
<v Speaker 1>financial markets and capital markets is like it is very

477
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:18.960
<v Speaker 1>much like by enforcement, and this bill is not going

478
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:23.480
<v Speaker 1>to change that so much. And it's really like can

479
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:28.160
<v Speaker 1>we have like more effective kind of enforcement agencies that

480
00:26:28.759 --> 00:26:32.160
<v Speaker 1>really go after the bad actors. It's almost like a

481
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.759
<v Speaker 1>little bit of a political problem like we think about,

482
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:37.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, in our recent history, like FTX was so

483
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:43.799
<v Speaker 1>involved in talking to regulators and we all know what

484
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:48.759
<v Speaker 1>happened there. So I'm not totally confident that this bill

485
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.640
<v Speaker 1>will like really change that, but I am hopeful that

486
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:55.640
<v Speaker 1>it will. It's hard, I think to look at crypto

487
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:58.720
<v Speaker 1>like only the crypto legislation without like some of the

488
00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:01.960
<v Speaker 1>other pieces that need to fall in place, like across

489
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:06.279
<v Speaker 1>capital markets. So you know, I think about accreditation rules

490
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.640
<v Speaker 1>that the SEC has. I think some of those need

491
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:12.799
<v Speaker 1>to change as well, and that can lead to enhanced

492
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:16.880
<v Speaker 1>access and also better consumer protection. So there's a lot

493
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:18.279
<v Speaker 1>of stuff that I want to see.

494
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, well, it said hard question for you. It's

495
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.319
<v Speaker 2>ten years from now, it's twenty thirty five. Are stable

496
00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:30.279
<v Speaker 2>coins running through the rails of the economy from a

497
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:33.039
<v Speaker 2>payment standpoint, whether it be payroll or me sending you

498
00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:36.880
<v Speaker 2>some money via an app, or I'm sending my cousin

499
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:40.720
<v Speaker 2>some money overseas, or I go to Starbucks and I

500
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:44.599
<v Speaker 2>buy some coffee. Our stable coins running behind all these things.

501
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:46.640
<v Speaker 2>And initially, you know, I guess where I get my

502
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.680
<v Speaker 2>money via payroll. It's powering the payroll, my paychecks and

503
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:50.279
<v Speaker 2>things like that.

504
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think, unquestionably. Yes, We're working actually on a

505
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:57.279
<v Speaker 1>paper right now with some of our payments fintech friends

506
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:02.119
<v Speaker 1>about just the history of payments networks ACCH swift. We

507
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:06.359
<v Speaker 1>have in recent history our TP and FED now which

508
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:09.240
<v Speaker 1>have both emerged in the in the last couple of years,

509
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:13.519
<v Speaker 1>and stable coins have really come up alongside these technologies,

510
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:18.440
<v Speaker 1>and I think we'll probably usurp them entirely. I think

511
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:20.559
<v Speaker 1>the question is, like stable coins are going to be

512
00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:25.440
<v Speaker 1>powering payments, no question. How will that look like? Will

513
00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:28.440
<v Speaker 1>they be in these walled garden payments networks, like in

514
00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:32.160
<v Speaker 1>a master Card payments network using a master Card stable

515
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:37.039
<v Speaker 1>coin where you know you're not really seeing it as

516
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:40.759
<v Speaker 1>a consumer, or like will you really have these more

517
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:46.039
<v Speaker 1>non custodial type of fun flows. We'll see, you know.

518
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:50.680
<v Speaker 1>I think like when we look at emerging economies that

519
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:54.599
<v Speaker 1>are like a digital base, so like areas of Africa,

520
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:58.400
<v Speaker 1>ors of South America, like they have had digital money,

521
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:02.599
<v Speaker 1>not crypto that is peer to peer for much longer

522
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:05.599
<v Speaker 1>than we have had in sort of like you know,

523
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:09.759
<v Speaker 1>the the US, Europe, things like that, Like I kind

524
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:12.079
<v Speaker 1>of think about that, like how did that emerge? How

525
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:14.440
<v Speaker 1>how will we see like our own version of like

526
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.039
<v Speaker 1>much more digital money kind of emerged. Yeah, we'll see,

527
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.480
<v Speaker 1>but I'll certainly be powered by stable coins. Like what

528
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:22.720
<v Speaker 1>flavor of stable coins? I'm not totally sure.

529
00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I'm very curious as to what what that's

530
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:28.799
<v Speaker 2>going to look like. And to your point, which stable

531
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.920
<v Speaker 2>coins and is it a you know, multiple stable coins

532
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:37.160
<v Speaker 2>and they are all interoppable and multiple blockchains and vendors

533
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:42.480
<v Speaker 2>accept these multiple stable coins, and you know, is it

534
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:45.200
<v Speaker 2>more or less account based and more wallet based where

535
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:50.160
<v Speaker 2>we're all self custodying. I get my pay it's not

536
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.960
<v Speaker 2>on a weekly basis, maybe a daily basis, and then

537
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:56.480
<v Speaker 2>it's all in my same wallet and I could transact,

538
00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:58.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of all in one app thing, go

539
00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:01.079
<v Speaker 2>make my purchases and my it's my bank account I

540
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:02.720
<v Speaker 2>earned yield, YadA, YadA.

541
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it. Yeah, like will wallets

542
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.400
<v Speaker 1>like usurpent accounts is a great question, I hope, so

543
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:12.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, I hope so.

544
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that'd be so fascinating. And then you know, I've often,

545
00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:20.039
<v Speaker 2>well I shouldn't say often. I've recently had some folks

546
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:24.400
<v Speaker 2>who are in the robots industry, and you know, we

547
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:26.680
<v Speaker 2>were talking about robots are not going to transact in cash.

548
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.319
<v Speaker 2>It's gonna be digital currency and most likely stable coins,

549
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:32.000
<v Speaker 2>and to have a built their own built in wallet

550
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:35.119
<v Speaker 2>and maybe in ten years we'll have robots in our homes.

551
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:38.559
<v Speaker 2>Elon's building it. Other companies are building it, and I

552
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:41.640
<v Speaker 2>can say, hey, robot, whatever your name is, go to

553
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:43.559
<v Speaker 2>home depot and get me this, and it can go

554
00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:45.799
<v Speaker 2>make the payment and it's done in stable coins.

555
00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:48.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean ten years from now, like if we

556
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.119
<v Speaker 1>just really zoom out, it's gonna be totally it's gonna

557
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:53.920
<v Speaker 1>be a crazy life, you know. I think that one

558
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:57.480
<v Speaker 1>thing that and stable coins are like a small piece

559
00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:00.400
<v Speaker 1>of this broader sort of tech revolution that we're going

560
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:04.720
<v Speaker 1>through in general, where robotics is part of it. AI

561
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:07.640
<v Speaker 1>is obviously something that is in the news a lot,

562
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:14.359
<v Speaker 1>but crypto is really like perfectly suited for like agents

563
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:18.160
<v Speaker 1>AI agents to interact with, for automated technologies that are

564
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:19.960
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more advanced to be able to use.

565
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.799
<v Speaker 1>And I think, you know, sometimes listening to some tech podcasts,

566
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:26.000
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of like, yeah, you're just going to be

567
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:28.440
<v Speaker 1>managing a lot of agents who are actually doing a

568
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:31.079
<v Speaker 1>lot of the work though, like kind of grunt work.

569
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 1>And so we think about it now that you do now,

570
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:37.720
<v Speaker 1>So I think that that will be definitely something. I

571
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:39.960
<v Speaker 1>would love to have a robot like clean my house

572
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.519
<v Speaker 1>for me and like go whatever, which you know, we

573
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:44.599
<v Speaker 1>have some early steps like I have a rumba, I

574
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.319
<v Speaker 1>have an automated mop thing like what they're getting there,

575
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:50.880
<v Speaker 1>like they get smarter? Like sure. I think something else

576
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:53.119
<v Speaker 1>that is worth thinking about too, is just like when

577
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:58.240
<v Speaker 1>we have instant money, like instantly settled money, Like how

578
00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:01.359
<v Speaker 1>will that change business models? How will that change how

579
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:06.039
<v Speaker 1>we interact with our jobs, with our friends, like with

580
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:09.039
<v Speaker 1>our family. When you have things like Venmo and zell,

581
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:12.000
<v Speaker 1>like it seems instant, like it feels instant, but it

582
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.119
<v Speaker 1>actually creates a lot of float in the economy. With

583
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:19.480
<v Speaker 1>cash that's getting settled between financial institutions, it creates a

584
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:22.160
<v Speaker 1>lot of risk. There's a lot of chargeback risk, right

585
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:26.240
<v Speaker 1>that fintech companies have to or you know, normal financial

586
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.599
<v Speaker 1>institutions have to eat. But I think that there's just

587
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:34.279
<v Speaker 1>some level of like transacting will fundamentally be a different thing,

588
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:37.359
<v Speaker 1>and like the technology under the hood will be different,

589
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:39.640
<v Speaker 1>but it's like almost the social context around it will

590
00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:40.599
<v Speaker 1>be totally different too.

591
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.480
<v Speaker 2>It's like exciting but scary to see in time, to

592
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:45.799
<v Speaker 2>see how all these things are going to come into fruition.

593
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:49.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it's interesting, like we offer

594
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:53.240
<v Speaker 1>much faster pay cycles and there are payroll companies that

595
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.039
<v Speaker 1>have things called like earned wage access programs that you

596
00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:58.920
<v Speaker 1>can get part or all of your paycheck faster for

597
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:01.920
<v Speaker 1>a fee, Like we do this much differently where you

598
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:05.240
<v Speaker 1>can just get paid what you've earned, no additional fees.

599
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:07.720
<v Speaker 1>Things like that. But when we look at like that,

600
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:11.759
<v Speaker 1>the reporting infrastructure for it, the compliance infrastructure, like the

601
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:15.079
<v Speaker 1>IRS doesn't really have a way for us to report

602
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:18.440
<v Speaker 1>instant payments, you know, like they're like, well, there's a

603
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.240
<v Speaker 1>calculation if you do it daily, or a calculation if

604
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:23.079
<v Speaker 1>you do it weekly. Like there's a lot of this

605
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.720
<v Speaker 1>legacy crap that's going to have to catch up as well.

606
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.240
<v Speaker 2>That's a great point because the government is slow. They

607
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:34.039
<v Speaker 2>still have outdated processes and softwares and whatever it is.

608
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:39.559
<v Speaker 2>Do you think eventually they're plugging into these different blockchains

609
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:42.839
<v Speaker 2>and these different companies and kind of like an API

610
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:45.200
<v Speaker 2>set up, they're getting the feed and they have eventually

611
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:48.680
<v Speaker 2>a software that is Web three native that is like

612
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:50.680
<v Speaker 2>a chain analysis right, kind of like a data and

613
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:54.559
<v Speaker 2>analytics and it's aggregating everything, it's categorizing everything, and it's

614
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:56.480
<v Speaker 2>making it easier for them.

615
00:33:56.920 --> 00:34:00.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that there's that, Like I like the

616
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:04.680
<v Speaker 1>the tech infrastructure upgrades will be there. Something that I

617
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:10.400
<v Speaker 1>think is interesting is like you know, in the US specifically,

618
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.800
<v Speaker 1>like we're US based companies, so we're very US like

619
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:17.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, policy centric. The IRS knows how much money

620
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:19.559
<v Speaker 1>you make, like we're reporting how much money you make

621
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:23.559
<v Speaker 1>every two weeks or whatever, and we go through this

622
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:25.760
<v Speaker 1>weird song and dance where it's like, Okay, now I

623
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:29.320
<v Speaker 1>have to report my personal W two or ten ninety nine.

624
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:32.559
<v Speaker 1>The government already has this information. They know exactly how

625
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:34.400
<v Speaker 1>much you owe. You have to kind of take a

626
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:37.159
<v Speaker 1>guess at it, and then you know, it leads to

627
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.679
<v Speaker 1>this very like annoying kind of like tax season where

628
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:43.920
<v Speaker 1>you wait for refund or whatever, like things go on

629
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:47.400
<v Speaker 1>for years. A friend of mine just got a notice

630
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.039
<v Speaker 1>from the IRS that said he was over refunded in

631
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:53.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty one, and now he owes them a couple

632
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:57.960
<v Speaker 1>thousand bucks, And it's just like this. You know, there

633
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:02.599
<v Speaker 1>is a big private industry that wants to keep this

634
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:06.199
<v Speaker 1>kind of chaos the same because they make money off

635
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.840
<v Speaker 1>of it. These like kinds of intermediaries, the biggest one

636
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:12.119
<v Speaker 1>is into it. You know, it's well documented how much

637
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.599
<v Speaker 1>money they spend lobbying Congress so that they can keep

638
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:18.679
<v Speaker 1>turbo tax, which is one of the most popular tax

639
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.239
<v Speaker 1>software is one of the richest sort of like software

640
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:25.599
<v Speaker 1>revenue generating things by far. Will these private industries like

641
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:29.760
<v Speaker 1>co op this technology to like maintain their positions, you know,

642
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:32.639
<v Speaker 1>or can we get the government to like want to

643
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:36.159
<v Speaker 1>upgrade themselves instead of relying on these kind of private sectors,

644
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:39.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, I would, I would love the latter. But

645
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.119
<v Speaker 1>it's it's not a question of like the tech being there,

646
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:46.519
<v Speaker 1>it's a question of like the willpower to implement it

647
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:48.840
<v Speaker 1>and to use it in a certain way. I think

648
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:50.880
<v Speaker 1>in a lot of these kinds of instances.

649
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great point. And plus you throw in, like you said,

650
00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:57.960
<v Speaker 2>the lobbying, the you know, the craziness of politics, and

651
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:01.039
<v Speaker 2>that could hit your progress and getting these new things

652
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:04.719
<v Speaker 2>in place. But hopefully we can, you know, and sooner

653
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:05.199
<v Speaker 2>than later.

654
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:06.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree.

655
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:08.400
<v Speaker 2>Tell us a bit about what's on your roadmap.

656
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:11.400
<v Speaker 1>What can we expect, certainly, and there's some like base

657
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:16.239
<v Speaker 1>level of ecosystem expansion we have been EVM based. There

658
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:19.320
<v Speaker 1>are other kind of ecosystems outside of ethereum that are

659
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:22.400
<v Speaker 1>interesting that we see customer demand for Solana being one

660
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.800
<v Speaker 1>of them. So I think that there's some level of

661
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:28.960
<v Speaker 1>that that we're looking into. You know, a lot of

662
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:33.440
<v Speaker 1>payroll companies right now make money not because of running payroll,

663
00:36:33.480 --> 00:36:36.480
<v Speaker 1>but because of the added benefits that they offer workers.

664
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.559
<v Speaker 1>So you know, your cost per unit for like an

665
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:44.800
<v Speaker 1>ADP customers like four to five dollars not very much.

666
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.079
<v Speaker 1>Your like profit on that is even lower, like probably

667
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:51.360
<v Speaker 1>fifty percent lowers. But you can make a lot more

668
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:54.159
<v Speaker 1>money by offering them healthcare and then you get a

669
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:57.719
<v Speaker 1>kickback from the insurance brokers or companies. You know. All

670
00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:00.360
<v Speaker 1>that kind of stuff really bothers me. I don't I

671
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.159
<v Speaker 1>don't like it. And so one thing that we're trying

672
00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:05.480
<v Speaker 1>to think about fundamentally is like how do we make

673
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.840
<v Speaker 1>companies running payroll? Like how do we move that from

674
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.480
<v Speaker 1>an expense area of their their P and L up

675
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.239
<v Speaker 1>to you know, an asset on their balance sheet? Like

676
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:17.960
<v Speaker 1>can you be making money off of running payroll? You

677
00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:22.599
<v Speaker 1>have massive treaturies at companies that are just sitting making

678
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:27.039
<v Speaker 1>no money while they're going through an extremely long fun

679
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:31.559
<v Speaker 1>flow process to settle payroll payments. Like faster payments also

680
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.679
<v Speaker 1>means you have a lot more opportunity to be earning

681
00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:37.920
<v Speaker 1>money off of that. And so that's something that like

682
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.000
<v Speaker 1>we're thinking about at the corporate level, like how do

683
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:43.679
<v Speaker 1>we help companies like actually make money instead of like

684
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:47.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, be paying these massive like opch op x expenses.

685
00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:50.639
<v Speaker 1>And we have like a couple different theories about how

686
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:54.079
<v Speaker 1>to do that. We did just release a yield product

687
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:57.599
<v Speaker 1>where companies that have stable coins sitting in smart treasuries

688
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:01.639
<v Speaker 1>could be earning yield through different DeFi protocols. Yeah, it's

689
00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:03.360
<v Speaker 1>really kind of like how do we sort of try

690
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.360
<v Speaker 1>and bring about a business model shift and you know,

691
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:09.559
<v Speaker 1>really stay true to this kind of value of not

692
00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:15.199
<v Speaker 1>being like an extractor along the way. So so that's

693
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of where my mind is at.

694
00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:20.119
<v Speaker 2>That's great. I really love the deep like DeFi component

695
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:23.079
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned. If the companies have whether we stable coins

696
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.639
<v Speaker 2>sitting there, they can put it to work and earn Yeah,

697
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:27.719
<v Speaker 2>that's really great.

698
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's it's palatable for certain type of customer.

699
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Other types of customers like you know, don't have that

700
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:37.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of risk tolerance, which is completely understandable, and so

701
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:41.320
<v Speaker 1>what can we do for them too? And there are

702
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:43.880
<v Speaker 1>there are a lot more options now, so yeah, so

703
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:45.400
<v Speaker 1>that's that's all under development.

704
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:48.760
<v Speaker 2>Great stuff, all right, I got some wrap up questions

705
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.159
<v Speaker 2>here for you, Megan. First, if you could create your

706
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:52.599
<v Speaker 2>own metaverse, what would the theme be?

707
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.960
<v Speaker 1>It would probably be like garden themed. I'm really on

708
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:59.559
<v Speaker 1>a Martha Stewart kick. I just watched her documentary and

709
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:02.519
<v Speaker 1>Netflix and I just think that she was so ahead

710
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:03.920
<v Speaker 1>of her time in so many ways. So it would

711
00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:09.760
<v Speaker 1>be like a Martha Stewart crypto native thing. Yeah. It

712
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.679
<v Speaker 1>kind of goes with the ethereum infinite garden idea as

713
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:16.239
<v Speaker 1>well instead of walled gardens. So there's there's a there's

714
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:17.000
<v Speaker 1>a cute theme there.

715
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.119
<v Speaker 2>I think awesome rapid fire questions.

716
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:25.119
<v Speaker 3>Favorite food Panier Tica Masala, favorite musician or Ben Dispatch,

717
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:31.679
<v Speaker 3>favorite movie Spy with Melissa McCarthy, Favorite book Ocean at

718
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.079
<v Speaker 3>the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman.

719
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:35.480
<v Speaker 2>And when you're not working at Franklin, what are you

720
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:36.039
<v Speaker 2>doing for fun?

721
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:39.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm walking my dog around the Upper east.

722
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Side, Megan. Absolute pleasure. And I love what you and

723
00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:46.079
<v Speaker 2>the folks of Franklin are doing and definitely a big

724
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:48.000
<v Speaker 2>part of the future of how we are going to

725
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:50.199
<v Speaker 2>get paid and much more. And I would love to

726
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:51.840
<v Speaker 2>have you back on in the future. Maybe you can

727
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:53.559
<v Speaker 2>do it in person since you know you're in New

728
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:55.920
<v Speaker 2>York and but yeah, you know, thank you.

729
00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:58.519
<v Speaker 1>It would be awesome. Yeah, really appreciate it and having such

730
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:00.519
<v Speaker 1>a great conversation and like, let's get keep it going