Speaker 1: Dirty hands means clean theology. Can you dig it? What's
going on? All my local guys and gals and long
distance polls.
Speaker 2: We're back, We are back. We are back back in
the saddle again, as you like to say.
Speaker 1: Down a sasquatch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, we got Ben's in full spring planning,
you know, full farm mode right now.
Speaker 1: We're just gonna have to threaten him real good and
tell we're gonna give him some pink slips. He always
talks about, you know, don't don't be a county worker. Yeah,
don't be a county worker being show up to work.
You're like a union guy shows up on payday and
we don't even have a payday.
Speaker 2: We sure don't. Well, what else is going on? Anything new?
Speaker 1: Nothing new, just working and coming home. At least the
weather is getting a little better so you can actually
get out to play a little bit.
Speaker 2: It's been absolutely beautiful outside, absolutely loving that weather. Well,
I got all got a whole farm, and I keep
getting new animals. I gotta. I got a new rabbit
the other day and it turned into my rabbit somehow,
and uh, it just sits on my shoulder like a
little parrot. I should have brought it back here but
another time, another time. But but no, that's pretty much
about it. Soccer. Oh well, soccer is always done. So
Jack finished up this week and mylin goes till middle
of May and then we're done. And thank goodness because
that was five days a week. So we'll finally get
some downtime, which I need. I need time to breathe.
It's been a lot. We need some time to breathe.
But we'll get there. But uh, I'll go ahead and
pray if you want this time, yeah ahead, last time.
Dear Lord, thank you for everything you've given us. Thank
you for every blessing you give us that we do
not deserve. Just please continue to open those floodgates of
those blessings and help us be a mouthpiece for you
and everything that we do and everything that we say
and all our actions. Please Lord, help that one person
who needs to hear this message tonight hear it. Help
us plant that one seed for you, and just help
us continue on this mission for you, Lord, and continue
to bless us in the way that you have and
your name me pray. Amen.
Speaker 1: Amen.
Speaker 2: Well today I'm pretty excited. It's been a long time coming.
We had a little bit a hiccup in the past,
but today we have a good friend of ours now
we've gotten to meet multiple times in person, author speaker
who we've gotten to see speak a couple times too.
And actually the first time you really freaked me out
a little bit. I'll be honest with you. You really
freaked me out just a little bit. But author of
you sent me for a loop. I was not ready
for it. I'm just gonna be honest with you. I
was not ready for it. But your author of books
like Mormonism, The Matrix and me Confession of an Ex Mormon.
I mean, there's things that and a lot of it
has to do with your pathway out of Mormonism, but
it's led you into some down some pretty amazing, amazing
rabbit trails and a lot of biblical truth and got
you to a point now where you're on the tournament trail.
For lack of a better way to say it. You
go to all the speaking engagements and things of that nature,
so and people, if they haven't had a chance to
meet you. You are one of the most genuine, honest,
nice people in person. You are no different than you
are where you're talking. You're just a phenomenal, genuine person
and we appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you so much, and I'm excited to
be here. I love talking anything God, anything, gospel, anything
you know that will further people's knowledge and inspiration about Kingdom,
about Kingdom living, Kingdom warfare. So thanks for having me
on and.
Speaker 1: Guys, just to let you know, last time we met
at the conference, Tracy come over to our table and
donated some of her books and she has signed them
and I want to show you guys.
Speaker 2: It's the first signature she ever put out. So these
are going to be worth times.
Speaker 1: We got the Warriors Walk, Keys to Victory and Spiritual
Battle and No Excuses Reading Journal for Christ Living, and
these are autographed and we're going to be doing a
prize giveaway for these guys. So when this episode releases,
share this on Facebook social media and tag us and
when you tag us, that gets you an entry. And
then so at the end of the week, we will
draw a name out of the had old school style
and tag you on Facebook and gets you these amazing
reading material. So thank you, Tracy.
Speaker 3: You're welcome.
Speaker 2: So that's awesome. Well, we are excited that you're here
for a few reasons, and like, like I said, you
you've you've kind of started with your coming out of
that that Mormonism background. But we were just talking a
little bit beforehand about some of the things that the
you know, the world's facing today and a big thing
and what we ultimately talk about. Even you know, Ellen,
we talked about Elie Marzouli. He always talks about the
great deception. You know, there's things when we talk about revelation,
things that are coming where there is going to be
a deception, and not just one. People are going to
be deceived in so many ways. But the thing you
said to me that everybody needs to hear right now
is what don't be deceived?
Speaker 3: Dep't be deceived?
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, exactly, So I guess let's kind of start there.
You would kind of started on that path, and you
actually we should have been recording because you said something
so profound. I think you should kind of repeat that
again for us sure.
Speaker 3: Well as a new Christian, and I'm sure other people
have had this thought come through their mind. We know
that Jesus had to die for our sins. We understand
that on an intellectual level, but we don't really understand
why I mean, if God is God, he created the universe,
he runs the show. There is none like him. There's
no one in competition, I mean, not really with him.
Why couldn't he just wink at sin? You know, why
couldn't he just look the other way? Why couldn't he
just pretend that Jesus had gone to the cross and
this way, you know, he would have had to suffer.
Jesus won't have had to suffer on our behalf. But
then you realize if you look deeper, And that's the thing,
because most of the time, the information stops right there.
Jesus died for our sins. But what was going on.
It wasn't just because Adam and Eve partook of the
fruit in the garden. And yet that's what we hear
at church and in Sunday School and in sermons and online.
And you know that Adam and Eve fell and because
of that the world is in shambles. But we can't
just throw Adam and Eve under the bus without showing that, No,
there was more going on. Satan had a key part,
and it happened before the garden was even there, and
he rebelled against God. He wanted to be like God.
He was when he was created. He was created to
be the cream of the crop, the top of the heap.
I mean he he was.
Speaker 2: To the margin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, run, yeah, So when he was created though, if
you read it in Isaiah thirteen or fourteen? Is it
thirteen or fourteen? But in Isaiah and then again in
Ezekiel twenty eight, we find out that he was the
cherub that covered. And this is interesting too. I mean,
I don't want to go down a rabbit TRAI well,
yes I do. I love going down a rabbit.
Speaker 2: To do it.
Speaker 3: But he was the anointed cherub that covered. And this
is something that I heard doctor Michael Lake talk about
and write about in his book His job, part of
his job. He had many many tasks in heaven is
in his appointed position, but one of the tasks that
he had was a covering over God's throne to maybe
shield god glory. We know certainly that as human beings
we can't even come into God's glory without being turned
into chrispy critters. We need something to protect us from
that glory, just from a scientific physical aspect, not because
you know, God is pointing his finger and saying, oh
you're you know, I don't you near me, zapp' that's
not it at all. So one of the things that
we see now today talking about deception is because Satan's
gifting was the covering over God's throne. Where what does
he still do because God's gifts are irrevocable, so he
still has that ability. He covers God's glory so that
humankind can't see it. That's how we are deceived because
he is still at it, covering or hiding the glory
of God from human beings. So that that was a
rabbit trail that I want to go down.
Speaker 2: That's awesome though it shows that veil, that scene, it
even I mean it talks about it throughout the Bible,
talks about the veil that's over their eyes, talking mostly
about the Jewish people, talking about the veil that covers
their eyes. This is even when they read the writings
of Moses that at this time there's still a veil
over their eyes because they don't accept Jesus and tell Jesus,
you don't have that insight, that understanding. So that veil
is a pretty powerful thing, and Satan uses that in
so many ways. Because you think about what we talk
about Mormonism, think about the idea that that Joseph Smith,
you know, Jesus comes to Joseph Smith right and tells him,
you know, all these truths. This is not much different
than the things that happen with Mohammed when an angel
comes to him and tells him these truths. Do I
believe that somebody showed up and said something? I do?
Do I believe that's who they said they were? No?
I don't. But this is the deception that we're seeing
on all different sides. So I think that's just a
that's an excellent point. I think that you put a
like a nice little pin in that just perfectly to
line up how that plays out and the broad stroke term,
and then you can look at how it comes at
from every different angle and it hits us, and every
one of us has been deceived at one point or
another time in our life. Every one of us has,
and then we realize later in retrospect, oh whoops. But
I just think it's that's such a good way to
look at it, so that we understand that.
Speaker 1: And it's a partial truth too.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That's like we were talking pre roll once you was mentioned.
You know, Wow, how come God just getting you know,
wink at the se end. Why did he have to
come in and die? Because these deceptions, like I said,
are partially true. They are, but they're they're twisted just
a little bit. And that's why you have to study
to show thyself approved. Because you know, the Gnostics. I
just realized this just a couple months ago. But the Gnostics,
the whole Gnostic view is wrapped up in that movie
The Matrix. You remember, the Matrix were asleep and we're
in a like a video game, a make believe world,
and we are feeding the new World, and that there
was a grand architect and overseer over the make believe Matrix.
You know, that's the whole Gnostic view. The Gnostics believe
that Sophia is that the god energy, and we all
have a piece of her. But she split and created
earth and this place is not real. But when she
split off, she made this thing called the demi Urge,
and he was the one that built everything, and he
wants to keep everybody enslaved and not make it back
to Sophia. So I mean, with that whole Gnostic being,
I mean, that's that's partially right, but we know that
that's wrong. But in a sense, Jesus had to go
into his creation to fix his creation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know, when Satan was created, and of
course he wasn't created to be evil. He was created
with free choice, free will, the same as all the angels,
the same as human beings, humanity. We were given free will,
free choice. But Satan became full of pride, puffed up
because of his position. And then there came a point
where God was ready to bring a new type of being,
human beings into his family. So the angels, the angelic
host was God's first family, and now he's bringing little
brother on board. So he creates this beautiful world and
he says it was good. He placed Adam in the
garden and said this is very good. And you know
now saying he was the overseer, he was the you know,
top dog, and so he had these big plans. I mean,
he was saying, I'm on the top of the world
looking down on creation. You know, the only explanation I
can find is God created me with such bling that
God himself has made me king and I'm sitting at
the top of the world. I mean, that was his
kind of attitude. That was a Carpenter song. By the way,
but probably most of your listeners are too old. No,
Karen Carpenter, the Carpenters. But anyway, but he just thought
that he was this big important person. And God said, okay,
I've created a little brother for you, and your job
is to him. Because I am putting Adam over all
creation on the earth. He is going to have dominion
over the world. And that didn't sit right with saying
it got his panties in a twist, you know. And
so that's when he said, you know, I'm too good
to be able to serve this puny man. He doesn't
have the glory that I have, the beauty, the intelligence,
the wisdom. So Satan went about slandering God because it
talks about it in the scripture when and I've got
some notes here, but he just he went around, and
you know, he made that declaration, I will scale the heavens,
I will raise my throne above God's. I will sit
on the mountain of Assembly, and I will rise past
the tops of the clouds, and I will make myself
like God the most High, and so and the King
James version and some of the other versions of the
Bible it talks about that because of his trafficking. Talks
about Satan's trafficking, that he was able to bring down
the nations. Well, it doesn't mean trafficking like we think
of it. Like you know, he had some angel wings
for sale and bling that he was selling on Etsy,
and he did some you know, the trafficking of his merchandise. No,
if you look at the Hebrew behind that phrase, it
meant that he was going about slandering God. So we
don't know exactly what he said to be able to
draw away a third of the angelic host, but he
certainly did an excellent job, excellent in the bad way
of making Elohem look like the bad guy, you know,
just accusing him probably of being selfish, of being you know,
he wants to keep things from us, he wants to
you know, he's just selfish and greedy and irrational. Whatever
it was. And so God could have he had the ability,
he had the power to just you know, flick them
out of existence, to just go poof be gone, But
that would be against his character and his nature. You know,
what about all the other good angels and the other
whatever other creatures that God has made with intelligence? What
if all the good ones saw that example, Oh, Wow,
anyone who disagrees with Yahweh is just going to be
poofed out of existence, you know. So the Lord in
order to protect not just protect his integrity, because God
is integrity. You know, he doesn't just have integrity, he is.
He doesn't just speak the truth. He is the truth.
He doesn't just you know, claim to have glory. He
is glory sonified. And so that's why he couldn't just
you know, wink at sin. He had to go about
through so called legal channels in order to defeat Satan.
And he had to give free will to mankind to
be able to choose as well as the angels who
they were going to serve. Are they going to serve
him or are they going to serve Satan? And so
now we find ourselves in this big cosmic battle. Why
did Jesus have to come? Because God himself had to
take on human flesh, step down into humanity in a
human body, and pay the price for sin because it
had to be like kinds, you know, if you get
into contracts and legal jargon and everything. It had to
be a perfect man to pay the price for fallen
man's sin. That's why Jesus had to come, God became
flesh for our sake. I mean, that's just mind blowing
to me. I think that is just the most stunning,
amazing news that just brings it all into perspective. And
you don't typically hear this kind of thing in Sunday school.
So to me, it just gave a deeper a deeper
sense of who God is and what he did for
us and the promises that await us who put our
trust in him.
Speaker 1: I think a little bit sets our religion apart from
every other religion in the world. It means to even
being's talked about this before, but it's every religion in
the world demands blood sacrifice. We are the only one
that our God bled for us. And it's just a
beautiful thought. And it's about family. It's about coming back
into the family of God. I mean, it is literally
the parable of the prodigal son. You got you know,
microcosms and macrocosms to all those parables. But it's like,
you know, all the other religions, you have paradise, you
have promise of virgins, promise of knowledge and enlightenment and
a better house when you reincarnate. You know, our religion
is about coming into the family and unity of God,
and he bleeds for you, he doesn't ask you to
bleed for him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when you bring up like the prodigal, I
just love that parable because it and like you said,
there's so many layers to it, of course, but the
father is a is a picture of God, the father.
And like in Jewish culture of that of the day,
it would have been shameful for a man to a father,
the head of the household, to pull up his robe
in order to run. It just would have been a
shameful thing. Would have been shameful for a father to
go running after their son like that. And what a
picture it is that you know, this father in the parable,
he was looking for the son to return. The son
was probably gone for years, But what did the father
do every day he was out there, probably walking up
to the you know, the crest of the hill and
looking and is today the day that he's going to
come home? And then finally when the son did, he
just saw him come over the horizon. And so what
did the father do. He pulled up his girded up
his loins so this feet and he ran to meet
his son. And it says that he threw himself on
his son's neck and just brought him in, brought him
back to the home and restored him to you know,
to to the family. What a picture that is of
God the father. He's not just up there some you know, distant,
uninvolved being. Yeah, he he is a father who has
a tender heart for his children. So what a picture.
I just love that.
Speaker 2: I think you brought up a really good point. And
I think when you go back to that, you talk
about why can't he just you know, flick them out
of existence, you know, get rid of that, because then
at that point, yeah, exactly at that point, are we
you know, are we giving God the praise and the
glory for the reason that he deserves. Are we doing
it out of not the fear like oh, you know
you fear the Lord, but out of straight terror? Because
that's not what our God is. Our God is a
god of love. So if you if you make it,
if God just starts saying Nope, done with you, Nope,
done with you, Nope, done with you, and doesn't give
us that free will, then no longer is it about love.
No longer is it about our choice to follow him?
And we take that away and it's just you see
how great God is in the fact that he gives
us that free will. It's such a different, such a
different way of looking at things, and it shows you
that you can't God. And like you said, it's out
of his character. He's not just gonna take those things away,
those struggles that are there. He's going to help you
through struggles. He's going to help you through you know,
spiritual attacks, He's going to help you through all these
different things. But he's not just gonna nope, we're done.
This is it. You're good. You know, that's just not
how it works. And Scripture tells us that over and
over again. You know, it says, you know that praise
God for your sufferings because your sufferings produce character, and
your character produces endurance, and it goes right through this.
It's so important that we that we go through these
tough things, and tough things are around us. It's just
part of who God is to help build us up
and bring him closer to him, bring us closer to him,
because if we don't have that have that that foundation,
have that desire to be close to him, and we're
only going to him because we're scared of the opposite,
which I'm not saying some Christians aren't. Just like, I
don't want to go to Hell, so I'm gonna believe
in God like that. You know, some people may come
to the church that way, but when when you leave,
that shouldn't be you know, the hell fire and brimstone
thing shouldn't be why you stay in church, right, which
you should understand. God is a god of love. Yeah,
it may get you there and that's okay, but after
that you have to understand it's a relationship with God.
God wants to commune with you. He wants to have
a relationship with you, and I think that's really important.
But that free will such a big part of that,
and I think that's awesome. I just think that was
a really good point. I'm sorry I had to back
that up there a little bit just to get to
that point, but I think that was an awesome point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's so many people, sadly, I'm believers, who
are just worried that they've committed the unpardonable sin. Or
first of all, if they're worried about it, then chances
are they have not. So you know, there is nothing
that you can do that would keep God from wanting
to save you, you know. I mean, we think of these
and that's where we as Christians need to get our
minds right, because it's so easy to judge people. It's
so easy to say, well, you know, so easy to
look at some of our politicians, you know, and and
you know, when you when you just think about the witchcraft,
the human trafficking, the adrenochrome, the you know, child sacrifice,
and you know, it's easy for us to say, well,
you know, I hope that they end up in hell,
you know, and that's not God's heart. You know. God
is a just god and he will bring justice, but
he's also a God of mercy. And if these people
repent and turn to him, there they're new creations, their
new creature creatures in Christ. And we need to accept that.
We need to accept these repentant sinners into the into
the family with open arms. I mean, look at Paul.
He went around killing believers, followers of Christ, or at least,
you know, assenting to their death, so you know, and
the community, the believing community was scared to death of him.
Speaker 1: There was only the failed from his eyes. That was
that veilure talking about earlier.
Speaker 3: And it took years for some segments of that community
to trust him.
Speaker 2: Sure well, and was terrified to terrified to go to
him when he came to town. He's like, I know
who that is? Well, you don't you don't want me
to go there? I know who that is?
Speaker 1: Right, So he finally probably accepted it. He's like, Okay,
I'm the next martyr. I gotta go die for y'ah away.
I love you kids.
Speaker 3: So I just want to encourage people that you know
what you maybe you do? We we sin? The point
is do we have a heart towards sin? Do we
live a lifestyle of sin? So that's something to really
be concerned about. That's the time that you need to
examine yourself and see if you're still in the faith.
But do we stumble and fall? Yeah? Do we sometimes
lose our temper? Yeah, But that doesn't mean that we
lose our salvation. We just ask for forgiveness and then
we try to change. You know, we don't just continue
in that. But it's going to be a process until
we are resurrected. It is going to be a process
of two steps forward, one step back. That's just the
nature of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Am and and while we're on the subject, you know,
for those that hadn't call our talk, give us your
background and your testimony, because that's that's an amazing story.
You've got a lot of amazing stories. You've lived a
very interesting life.
Speaker 3: Tracy. Okay, well, yeah, talking about deception. So I just
knew from well not this wasn't being deceived knowing that
there was a god, but I just knew intrinsically, even
as a little child, that there was a God. And
I don't know how because I didn't come from a
religious family, but I just knew it. And like if
I had a little pet that would die or something,
I would just run to my room and fall on
my knees and dear God, please take tweety up to
Heaven or you know, Fido or whatever and resurrect it.
Probably no, I didn't, but oh yeah, okay, well I'll
get to that. That's an amazing story in itself. But
I just always was drawn to the supernatural. And as
an eight year old, I remember I had a favorite
stuffed animal and I believed that magic could make it
come to life, and so I set a goal. I
was saying out loud. Its name was Herbie. I was like, Herbie,
on this Saturday, you're going to come to life. And
I don't know if I said abracadabra over it or
whatever I did, but that Saturday morning, I'm watching Saturday
Morning cartoons, Spider Man and Scooby Doo and all those greats,
and my stuffed animal was sitting several feet away on
like a footstool, and all of a sudden it levitated.
It jumped from the footstool onto my lap. And that
was the only time I'd ever done that. But I
was like, wow, See, I knew you could come alive.
Magic is real. So I was always kind of drawn
to that. And my aunt she had bought a Ouiji
board and just thought it would be a great parlor game,
which it isn't. Yeah, that thing really works. I don't
know if you've ever done that before you were believers.
But there's this plantchet it's called some kind of a
device in there, and each person puts their fingers on it,
and that thing moved of its own accord. So I
just I knew that there was another dimensionality. I didn't
have the words to put into it, but I knew
that there was more to our existence that meets the eyes.
And when my best friend, when I was thirteen, she
invited me to the Mormon Church. So I was already
primed for the supernatural when she invited me to go
to church with her, and I did, and I was
just smitten by the Mormons. They were amazing people, and
I felt like I was I had come home. I
felt like I fit in. So I wanted to be
baptized right away, and within a few months my parents
allowed me to be baptized. They didn't know anything about Mormonism,
they weren't religious, we didn't know anything really about the Bible.
So I just thought right from the first, this is
the true Church, because that's what they put into your
mind through.
Speaker 2: Through.
Speaker 3: I guess I almost hate to use the word in
doctrination because it's not an intentional we're going to take
control of people's minds, but it's just the way that
the church is set up to always be reinforcing the
idea that the Church is true, that Joseph Smith was
a true prophet, that he spoke for God, that God
came down to him and said that all the Christian
churches had been corrupted, and Joseph was supposed to restore
the true Gospel to the earth. So that's what we're told,
like after week after week. And it's interesting that I
had my first demonic experience as a young LDS Latter
Day Saint person. So I was about fifteen years old,
and I had invited the man who would later become
my husband, but at the time, you know, we were dating,
and I invited him to junior prom, which is a
big thing, especially you know, for a teenage girl junior prom.
And this was in Utah Provo High School. And on
the day of the prom, he canceled the date because
he said it was too serious, and I, yeah, it's
just a weird mindset. If I take her to prom,
then she's going to expect me to ask her to
marry her or marry you know, and so yeah, yeah,
he was just didn't want to make the wrong choice,
and so anyway, but I was super upset, of course,
and that night I was just in tears. So about
you know, seven eight o'clock in the evening, I laid
down on my bed just sobbing, and all of a
sudden that my bedroom, there were no windows open or anything,
but the bedroom got icy cold and I was held
down on the bed by some unseen power. I couldn't move.
I was like pinned to the bed. I was on
my side and I couldn't move, I couldn't talk, and
it was the scariest thing that I had ever experienced,
and I was trying to cry out, and finally, just
through sheer strength or something, I was able to make
this gasp and my aunt, who was in the next room,
she came running into the room. She opened up my
bedroom door and right away she was like, oh, it's
so cold in here, and all the cold just disappeared
in a flash. I mean not in a moment, in
an instant, not a real flash. And she said, are
you okay? And I jumped up out of bed and
just threw my arms around her and said, I don't know,
I don't know what happened. Something was in here, something scary.
So that was the first time that I'd ever experienced
something from the other side. But one thing, one thing
that it did is confirmed to me me. You know,
the devil meant it to scare me, to paralyze me
in fear, But what it did was cement my belief
that God was real, because if there was something like
evil spirits, if there was such a thing, and I
knew that there was such a thing as God, so
it only served to strengthen my belief in the Lord.
So that was the first time. And then after I,
after I grew up, got married to the guy who
you know, broke the junior prom date, and so we
got married and we went to the temple to be sealed.
And that's what faithful Mormons do, And what it means
being sealed is that you go into the temple over
and altar, you make certain covenants, and they they seal
you together like you are now husband and wife throughout
all eternity. Its marriage is not just for this life only,
it's forever and ever and ever. So that's what it means.
If if you hear a Mormon say that they were
sealed in the temple, they now have become an eternal family.
And the temple ceremony is based on freemasonry. Joseph Smith
was either a thirty two or thirty three degree Mason,
and he took the things that he learned from freemasonry
and inculcated them into the Mormon temple ceremony. So we
were actually doing these uh, oh, these rituals free rides. Yeah,
like we had to take oaths at the time. Now
that I do need to say that the church has
changed modify the temple ceremony. They don't do this anymore.
But back in the nineteen eighties when I was going
through the temple.
Speaker 1: People are lot more informed now about the masonry and stuff.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and they would have to I'd have to
take like pretend to slip my own throat throat. The
patrons had to, you know, draw their thumb across their chest,
like to have their heart ripped out. We had to
make a move across our lower abdomen signal making a
like a signal or a show that if we divulged
what went on in the temple, then you know, we
were saying that we commit to have our bowels gushed
out and you know, sliced open. And we didn't say
the words. We just mimicked or pantomimed those gruesome ways
to die, which should have been a clue. I mean.
But see, if you've already been brainwashed in a sense
or programmed to believe that, well, this is the one
and only true Church on the face of the earth,
and this is the only way that we can get
to the top degree of heaven, which in Mormonism is
called the Celestial Kingdom. Then you don't really question. You
just say, well, if God is God, if heavenly Father,
you know, he's He's in charge, and if he says
that this is what we need to do, then this
is what we need to do. Who am I to
argue with God? You know, you kind of take on
that mentality.
Speaker 1: And it's hard for people to see that because they're
coming from the outside. You know, how you were raised,
what you were around, that is your normal.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: You see people that grow up and be alcoholics and
beat their wives and everything else. To normal people were like,
what is wrong with you? But to him, he's seeing
his father come home from work every night and drink
a case of beer and slap his mom around. That's
his normal.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So if you grow up in the Mormon Church, you're
seeing people do these ceremonies and make these gestures and
things from the time you're four or five years old
up to adulthood. You don't never think twice about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point. It's normal for people who
are experiencing it all the time. You know, and and
that's what it was like. But the interesting thing to
me looking back is that the more frequently I would
attend the temple, the more frequent these demonic attacks would be.
And it would just happen, either as I was just
falling asleep at night or just waking up in the morning.
It could even be if I laid down for a nap.
Because I had I had ten children, and so you know,
you get tired. I was pregnant. I think, I let's
see nine months times you know, nine children, eighty one
months because our tenth child is adopted. But yeah, for
eighty one months of my life I was pregnant, and
probably for three times that amount. So whatever eighty one
times three is is how long that I was breastfeiting
my children. So so you know, once in a while,
you take a nap, you get tired, and it would
even happen then these demonic attacks where the room would
take on a chill and I would be frozen to
the you know, paralyzed, not able to move. But by
this time I at least knew to try to call
out to Jesus, and I'd be thinking in my mind,
Jesus helped me and I would try to say the
name of Jesus and then as soon as the words
escaped my mouth, then this power would just lift right
off of me. But it was scary. It would be
scary for anybody, and I just couldn't understand. Now looking back,
I see, well it was because I was, you know,
as a child involved in the occult and then you know,
participating in freemasonry. I had opened a door or a
portal to the dark side. And justin I think you
you've probably shared your story that you experienced with with
the powers of darkness. I mean, so you're kind of
familiar with with that. I don't know about you, Steve,
if you've ever.
Speaker 2: Had more than a couple things. But I've been grabbed
before and helse saw a hand on my arm like that.
You didn't see the hand, but you saw that it
was squeezing. You saw where the fingers were, the indentse
on your arm, and there was no one there. It
was very heavy, very very uh. It straightens you out
if like you said, For me, it actually made my relationship.
I think it helped me along my relationship with God
a little bit more than it would to do anything else.
I don't know how else to put that. You said
that kind of that way, but for me, it yeah,
it's scary. But all that does is say, Okay, yeah,
I just know I need God closer to me. I'm
not walking as close as I need to be. And
you know, none of us are perfect, but back then
I was by far not perfect, and I'm hoping I'm
a little bit better now. I haven't had anything like
that happened recently.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, everybody experience till you get one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you don't want those experiences now. And was
it that you bring this up? We talked about We
talked to Vicky Joy here and there once in a while,
and you know Vicky Joy Anderson, and you know her
work on sleep paralysis and things like what you're talking
very demonic experiences where you know, people are held down
and and or things happen. You have these these experiences
like this. But what she says is sometimes, and this
is one of the very powerful thing that I don't
think people realize always, is that you know, we are
what we take in, right, we all things in. And
her best way that she said it is you don't
always have to open a door. Sometimes you leave the
window open, just a crack and that's all it needs.
And what we consume through TV, through our entertainment, through
our music, through these things, that opens a door. I
don't care what anybody. That doesn't affect me, it affects you.
Those things become part of you. The things that you
indulge in are part of who you are. It's part
of what your your your overall being. You know, if
Jesus would have said, I don't think Jesus would have
sat around and you know, watched a porn. You know,
it just wasn't going to happen, you see what I'm saying,
because he's not going to let that be part of
his life. So when you see people allowing certain things
into their life, that becomes part of you, and that
allows other things in that opens that, like you said,
either that door or that portal, and allows things into
our life that are evil. So I think that's just
an important way of looking at at it.
Speaker 3: I agree. And people on the outside, you know, they
hear about people like us who share these experiences and
they just think because they've never seen a demon, they've
never felt the dark presence, they've never had any type
of supernatural experience, and they're like, these people are crazy.
You know, they must be suffering from some mental illness.
But when the manifestation can actually it's not just subjective,
but when it can be seen by other people, you know,
like with my aunt coming into the room, I mean
I may have looked back on what happened to me.
If she hadn't have come into the room, I may
have looked back and said, was I imagining it all?
What was wrong with me? Maybe I'm going crazy? But
because she was able to open that door and have
that cold wind out of nowhere rush out of the room,
she was a witness to that. And when you were
talking about Steve that you could see the fingerprints, maybe
not the fingers, but the pressure on your arm of
this unseen being. You know, it's not craziness. There's an
outside dimension and people need to be aware of it
and realize, hey, we need to walk circumspectly. We need
to make sure that we're not leaving that window open
or that door.
Speaker 2: So I talked to Justin about this a lot recently,
and we've said that about our show.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: We got into this because of Michael Heiser and because
a lot of his work as Justin said, the Gateway drug, right,
you get into that and all of a sudden you're like, whoa,
and you know your whole paradigm's blown. And you read
the Bible and it's like, all of a sudden it
makes sense, like all the passages you just skipped over before,
all of a sudden you start getting it. But I
think what we're trying to do and the way that
we see this is there are so many people that will,
you know, call themselves Christians, and maybe they are. Maybe
they got a great walk with God and they haven't
had they don't understand the supernatural, or maybe they're just
you know, your CEO is your Christmas Easter onlies, you
know what I mean. They come to church because it's
just what they do, but they've never had these experiences.
You never understand this stuff. They've heard of God, they've
heard of Jesus. They you know, they get that part
of it. Then on the other side, going through the motions.
On the other side, though, you have people who have
been druid or wickan. You have people that have been
in so many different types of lifestyles that all of
a sudden realize, Okay, this this is a dark force,
and they know that. You know, there's obviously the yin
and the yin and the yang, right, so we're gonna go,
we're gonna search the good side out. But if you
come to church, and you come to a church, it's like,
oh no, that stuff doesn't happen, that's not real. They're like, no,
I saw it, it was there, Like I've seen these
I've conjured these things. And if we don't understand that
there's a supernatural war, a battle going around us, that
there is, I mean, a whole nother like you said,
realm all around us all the time. We can't see
it always once in a while we see things that
you know, are terrifying, and there are some people that
actually I think are a little more sensitive to that
than others. But there are things that are around us
all the time. And if you don't know that, if
you don't understand that, you're already losing the battle because
it is all around us, and it's coming for us
and all our souls.
Speaker 1: You know, That's what gets me is because these people
have seen it, they've experienced it, so therefore they're either
seeking asylum or answers from this other realm and if
they show up to church and oh, no, that stuff
ain't real. Oh there's no demons, there's no no, no,
there's no no, that's real.
Speaker 2: No, that's real.
Speaker 1: When it's right there in our Bible, it's either weird
or awkward for them and they don't want to talk
about it, or they don't have the eyes to see
what's in their own book. But what happens is is
they're seeking asylum or answers.
Speaker 2: Where do you think they're going to do.
Speaker 1: They're going to go trying to find somebody else, and
they're going to be deceived again.
Speaker 2: M point sorry.
Speaker 3: And the Christians, like in the churches, the ones who say,
well this isn't for today, they're being deceived again. Satan
is being very effective with covering or putting the veil
between their eyes. I used to I used to think,
how come we don't seem to see frequently here in
the in the United States or in the West, I
should say, we don't see the healings, the miracles, the whatever.
And you always hear about these stories about people on
the other side of the world, and it's like, Okay, hey,
well yes, my brother's cousins, sons, friends, dog, went over
there and saw, you know, I mean, it's always several
generations away, and you want to believe, but you're not
quite sure. And a couple of my sons, my strong
Christian sons, have gone to serve and do missionary work
in parts of Africa. It was Uganda, Kenya, I don't
remember where else in Africa, and then the Philippines. And
one of my sons was there in the Philippines for
at least six seven months on a service mission, and
they were seeing these things. So now all of a sudden,
it wasn't five generations away. It was my own son
telling me that right under his hands, as he would
lay his hands on people, he would see them get healed.
I mean, not just a subjective well my stomach, and
now it doesn't. I mean, I'm talking about people with
crippled limbs having their limbs straightened out, seeing someone with
a short leg, one shorter leg shorter than the other
and having it grow out before my son's very eyes.
You know, people coming for healing and being healed, and
a lot of them were being who were being healed
were unbelievers. But what a testimony, because in these other countries,
the supernatural is happening. They see the voodoo, the witchcraft,
the witch doctors, and they see the curses that are
bringing about, you know, strange powers, miracles, false miracles, and
they see that, and then you know, a Christian comes
along and just says, you know, believe in Jesus and
you're in the club and nothing happens. Well, how does
that motivate them to want to know more? But when
they actually are healed, they see that the real God,
the God of Heaven, is more powerful than the false
God that they've been worshiping, and they come to a
saving a saving faith. So God is not against miracles.
He's not up there saying, you know, I want you
guys to have more faith. So I just want you
to believe in me. And that's going to be a
test of your faith is to believe in Me without
seeing any miracles at all. He wants to be a
God that works in people's lives. He wants to heal people.
He wants to do these amazing things. But it's we're
the ones who are closing off our eyes and our
minds and our ears. You know, I don't want to
hear it. I don't want to hear it.
Speaker 1: You know, and the materialism of the wayst is getting
in the way of seeing miraculous things.
Speaker 2: What is the greatest, one of the greatest quotes that
Hollywood ever produced, was the greatest trick the devil ever
polled was making the world think he didn't exist. So
as soon as you take that supernatural, allow it further.
Speaker 1: You know, they said, the greatest trick the daily ever
polled was tricking the whole world into believing that he
was God and be worshiped.
Speaker 2: Well, indirectly, I think that's what's happening in this country,
some people directly, some people maybe not so directly, but
it's it's happening. But if you take that supernatural out,
if you take that away, then you're not just taking
it away from the dark side, the evil side, you're
taking it away from God too. And and like you
said that that veil grows thicker, those scales on the
eyes grow thicker. And as a whole, our country and that,
like you said, that materialistic culture that we have and
and the the living the here and living the now,
and you know, whatever feels good and everything that we're
going through right now, that where are we's gotten to it?
How far away. We've put that supernatural in the background.
And not just in the secular public. I'm talking about
in the church, the church as a whole in this country.
When I say the church, I'm talking about the body
of Christ, the people that the congregations of the church
have let this go. We have gotten so you know
Joel Olstein prosperity gospel, that we have left the supernatural
in the dust. And and it's it's it's not okay.
We're in a very scary place in this country. This
is the we're at the beginning of the fall. I mean,
that's really what's happening.
Speaker 3: Well, we've we're bewitched by technology, plain and simple. You know,
who needs God when you can push a button and
have all this stuff for the virtual reality or whatever.
We're like the Church of Leyahjesea. I'm not is talking
about professing Christians. I mean the world, or at least
the West, the Western world, is like the Church of
Lea Deicia in that you know, we're we've got everything,
we don't need anything. We're prosperous. We can we can
go out of work and make our own money. We
can invest in crypto and get all this wealth we
can do this, that and the other. Don't we don't
need God. They don't even maybe not even think in
that terms. They just they have been bewitched. That's all.
That's the only way that I can express it. And
even in Revelation, in the Book of Revelation where it
talks about the farm pharma pharma kia, people are bewitched
by the pharmachia because oh, I feel sad, I want
to I'm not talking Please, don't get me wrong. Don't
hear what I'm not saying. There are people who generally
who genuinely have depression, so I'm not talking about that,
but just the mindset of the culture that says, if
I get a little sad, I can take a happy pill.
If I feel a little worried about something, I can
take something for anxiety. If I can't sleep, you know,
I can take this, that or the other. And some
of these pharmaceuticals actually alter the chemistry in our brains,
and that can you know, I don't know much about
the paneal gland, but I know that somehow the paneal
gland in our brain is connected to being able to
perceive other dimensions. And maybe it's that gland that helps
us to be able to hear from God. He speaks
to us. It's just maybe our receivers are clogged, you know,
clogged with all this interference from from the outside.
Speaker 2: So our body that the pineal gland produces a DMT,
which you've heard people use this as a psychedelic. That
people will actually smoke DMT and it will for ten
to twelve minutes you have kind of a euphoric and
this is really scary. We talked a little bit about
this before, but it's really scary. They'll have like a
ten to twelve minute experience, you know, where they go
to another realm, basically a different place where they see
different things, they meet different entities. There was a study
done and I believe it was in England where they
made it so they could put it through an IV
and they did it and they would put people under
for an hour at a time. And now there's actually
places that do this recreationally. You can pay to be
under almost as long as you'd like to be so,
but they would do this for an hour at a time.
The DMT, so our body naturally produces it at a
certain level. But when we're what we're doing we're mass
we're putting a mass amount of this into our into
their bodies right to get to this euphoric drug like state.
So they're doing this for an hour at a time.
And as they do this, they come out and they
ask these people these questions, you know, what did you see?
What was the landscape, what was the you know? And
they go through and this crazy thing is people who
don't know each other, who've never talked before, come back
describing the same entities with the same names, the same landmarks,
the same place as they're seeing, to the point now
where when they send them in and this is and
I say, now as far as the last uh part
of this, I watched a presentation from the people who
are the researcher's doing this, and they were mapping the area.
They were saying, Okay, you went right this time, now
go left, and we're gonna we're gonna actually like cartography
style map the region this is and so people this
and you look at Colorado and I was actually legalizing
a lot of psychedelics. You know, they've taken that that
you know, originally it was just marijuana. Then they've gotten
to that point now where it's psychedelics are legal. I mean,
it's always just going to be the next thing, the
next thing, the next thing. But this is a this
is a big problem because people see things. They get
to a point where this is a very it's a
very supernatural thing. And when you can sit there and
say that me and Justin did the same thing. And
guess what we talked to the floating Headfred. I really
don't know, but we we met the same floating Headfred,
and he told us the same thing. We're like, dude,
floating head Fred's real.
Speaker 1: Well, materialism is going to come back and buy us
in the butt with that, because if we can't see it,
feel it, tastes it, touch it, it's not real. It's
not worth our time, you know. Tracy said, we're the
generation of instant graphication, one push of a button. So
why would you go to church and try to live
a perfect life and go to church on Sunday and
sing the heymns and pray and study and read your
Bible to try to have a relationship and experience God.
We're not going to just go two blocks down the
road and get a shot from a doctor and see
God instantly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the other thing think about this. Ayahuasca is
another one that you've heard people. You know, we'll smoke
ayahuasca to have these spirit trips or spirit journeys. Ayahuasca
is a couple of different plants that have to be
put together a certain way, and I think they have
to be a certain temperature when they're mixed together, otherwise
it doesn't have that effect. So what's the chances that
just somebody in the wood took this plant and this plant,
put it together, heated it up to the right temperature,
and then smoked it. Or does it make more sense
that I don't know? Maybe chest True the book his true. Yeah,
you familiar with the cutting of roots. Somebody gave him
this knowledge. So this stuff is really scary because we're
delving into thispiritual realm. And and God often says, you know,
don't when you look through Leviticus and Deuteronomy, he talks about,
you know, you should not talk to necromancers, you know,
the ones who speak to the dead. You know, things
of these nature. You're not supposed to go into these planes,
into these realms. It's not for you to do. Now,
if God comes, if if an angel comes, God comes, whatever,
and he gives you a vision, that's one thing. And
I'll tell you this, I've had three in my life
that I can tell you were spiritual visions, and one
hundred percent, there is no doubt in my mind they
were spiritual visions. Two were extremely extremely negative, terrifyingly negative,
and one was extremely positive. But they were very spiritual,
very spiritual. So I know that those things can come
from either side. But you have to understand that it's
a when we go searching for these things and we're
going out of our way into that pharmacy, as you said,
into these other things, it's a very dangerous slippery slope,
and we're seeing a lot of people fall into it now.
And going back to what you said way back in
the beginning, deception, deceptions everywhere. If it, you know, we're
seeing it in our churches, we're seeing it in the
way that our government's run. We're seeing it in the
your Pharmacheeah, like you said, we're seeing it in so
many different ways. So if if Satan sets up this,
you know, he comes at you with this and you're like, no,
I'm too smart for that. You turn this way, there's
another one right in front of you. You're like no turn,
there's another one right in front of you. It's never
gonna stop. That's why you always have to pray for
that discernment. You always have to have God there with you.
You always have to have the faith and the trust
in God that He will give you the discernment to
make the right choice in those in those ways, and
always relate everything back to scripture. Always be founded in
your gospel. And I'm going to jump off my little
soap box now I apologize.
Speaker 3: No, you're you're actually right. Thank you.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: I thought you was thinking me for my knocking you
off the box.
Speaker 3: Eh.
Speaker 2: That was a good time.
Speaker 3: And I know you're top.
Speaker 2: It looked like I smacked you.
Speaker 3: Now that was great, Steve. Thank you for your your insights.
Deception comes looking like truth, but it's it's lies that
are wrapped in a veneer of truth because if it
was obvious, no one would be deceived. And just to
share a little personal experience, so my husband and I
were recently back in November, we were scammed out of
a large amount of money. You know, we sold our
home in Kansas and uh, you know, we made some
money off the sale of the house and that's what
we were going to use to put us a down
payment on a house here in Missouri, because we've felt
drawn to Missouri anyway. But the point is that the
way that we were deceived and scammed out of the
money was because of technology deep fake. You know, you've
heard of deep fake technology. And so someone who we
knew and trusted, said, hey, instead of just leaving your money,
you know, sitting in a checking account without getting interest,
if you put it into this fund, you'll be able
to get back some interest and earn a little more
money so that you can have a good down payment
for the house that you buy. But the deception was
that it was a scammer and they used some type
of deep fake technology to imitate the person who the
actual real person who we knew and trusted, but it
was all fake. It wasn't really that person's voice, but
it sounded just like it. And that's you know, a
person might think that I'd never fall for something like that,
I'd never be deceived, But deception is all around us,
whether it's on the internet, whether you know, I mean,
you've seen those Mission Impossible movies where somebody is you know,
looks like the president of the United States and they
take off the mask and it's actually and that stuff
is real, that is real, and so we don't even
we don't even know if what we're seeing and hearing
what was it. The other day, there was some news
that was coming out of Gaza and it showed a
scene that actually wasn't happening there. It was from a
news clip over here that happened. You know, I don't
know if it was like target practice or you know,
some kind of a military exercise, and they were you
that old film to make it look like it was
happening over there. So we can't even trust what we
see and hear. We can't just take stuff on face
value anymore. And that's really sad. But Steve, I think
you hit it right on the head when you said
we've got to be prayerful, we've got to be discerning.
We've got to vet things. I mean, before you just
copy and paste something and post it on your Facebook page,
you need to vet that information so that you don't
end up looking like a fool what it proves to
be false. You know, people who we know and trust
can be passing on false information, not intentionally. It's just
that they haven't looked into it. They're just passing it
on because they believe who it came from. So it's
just going to be really important for us to look
into things to know before we put something out there.
And it's really hard, you know, when you can't, Like
I wish, you know, you hear all this about all
this stuff going on at the border, and you hear
different sides of the story. You hear what's going on
in the Middle East, you know, and people saying, Oh,
it's Israel, They're these horrible people, and then you hear, no,
it's the Palestinians. And it's like, I wish that I
could just fly there to the border or to the
Middle East and see for myself what the truth is.
But we can't do that. So how do you find
the truth when you're being bombarded from with fake news
and people with agendas? What do you do? You know
you have the answers.
Speaker 2: I was just say, that's a very powerful warning that
I think we all need to take a heart because
there's so much that we see, like you said, if
we listen to And the even worst part is we
also know there's different news outlets that are catering to
a certain side of each argument too, which so you're
getting falsehoods not only from the overall story, but then
you're getting falsehoods from a way because they know you
want to hear a certain side of an agenda, So
they're going to turn a story a certain way just
to treat you. You know, it's it. It's just too
much for me. So my thing is, rather than watching news,
read your Bible rather than go down those Facebook reels
and all the Facebook stuff on there. Read your Bible
rather than give in to all these things in the world.
Read your Bible. Walk with God because he's the only
one to give you that discernment to find out what's
right or wrong. So, Tracy, I want you to know
we're going to have to do a part two of
this because I think we could keep going all night.
So I think you have to do a part two
of this. But before we let you go, let everybody
know where they can find your books, any information on you.
This is your chance to shamelessly plug anything.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, my latest book here is The Warriors Walk
and it's Keys to Victory and Spiritual Battle. And then
here's my Joy and Pride Mormonism, The Matrix and me,
I love this because this is my testimony of how
God delivered me from the Kingdom of darkness. Yes, justin anyway.
God is so amazing and this is how He did it,
and it was just a fascinating read. It really is.
I'm proud of this book and you can find it
at any major bookstore online, Amazon, Barnes, and Noble Christian
book distributors. So just look for my name Tracy Tennant,
that's T R A, C Y, T, E, A and T.
And then you can also go to my website, the
Mormon Matrix, and you can find information there on just
to get a little background on Mormonism and how to
how to share the Gospel with your LDS, friends, family, neighbors,
or missionaries who show up on your doorstep. So I
would suggest that. And then finally, I have a podcast
and it's called From Colob Klob to Calvary and co
Loob is an imaginary planet, but in Mormon doctrine it's
supposed to be a star close to where God the
Father lives. So from Colob to Calvary on Apple iTunes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Tracy, has anybody started a go fund me
for you for the that guy that took all your
guys's money from your house.
Speaker 3: Thank you for asking. Yes, my son's best friend Star
did one. But you know, we we haven't. We haven't
got a lot of donations because I feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, we're prideful creatures, you know, Well it's
not pride. I just don't.
Speaker 3: You know, we made a stupid mistake. And I don't
want to put on my Facebook page every day that's what.
Speaker 1: I would. I would be too prideful. We want anybody
to know, you know.
Speaker 3: But we.
Speaker 2: Need to help out with everybody. We we are together,
we're brothers and sisters and all this, and we need
to help each other out.
Speaker 1: So thank you the links and we will have a
link for this gofund me and if you feel compelled,
give to this sister in Christ. And man, just put
yourself in her shoes. You have a a home that
you've worked and built on your your whole life, and
then you sell this home and hopes to get another one,
and for some Jackwagon to just come and take it
off from you, that this would just suck.
Speaker 2: I think that's a Christian Yeah, jack Wagon, And you're just.
Speaker 1: You're just so loving Tracy, and you've got to always
gotta smile on your face. And I know God's gonna
bless you and thank you for everything you do and
being who you are.
Speaker 3: Thanks, Justin. I appreciate that you're awesome, both of you.
I look forward to part two. There's so much sounds good.
Speaker 2: We'll talk to you soon, all right, God bless
Speaker 1: That so els missed when made feel small, Just stories
conned in stone