1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,400
Speaker 1: Ask not what your country can do for you, ask

2
00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:07,360
what you can do for your country.

3
00:00:07,639 --> 00:00:11,400
Speaker 2: Mister Garbaschoff, tear down this wall.

4
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,800
Speaker 3: It's the Ricchet Podcast with Stephen Hayward and I'm James

5
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,399
Lilas and today we go to the Conservative Crossroads and

6
00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:21,079
dot to Rob Johnson, no Henry Olson. So let's have

7
00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:22,079
ourselves a podcast.

8
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,239
Speaker 4: And you took ten thousand dollars. That's a lot, and

9
00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:26,120
help them do it.

10
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:26,879
Speaker 1: You know.

11
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,039
Speaker 5: The other thing is, whistle blowers came to you as

12
00:00:29,079 --> 00:00:30,399
early as twenty nineteen.

13
00:00:30,519 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 4: Let's look as early as twenty nineteen.

14
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,880
Speaker 5: Whistle blow don't talk over me early talking about in nineteen.

15
00:00:37,079 --> 00:00:41,880
Speaker 2: It's my hearing pal. As early as nineteen, don't come.

16
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,759
Speaker 1: Whistle blowers came to well, I should call you a

17
00:00:43,799 --> 00:00:45,039
prisoner because you ought to be in jail.

18
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:46,240
Speaker 4: Welcome everybody.

19
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,359
Speaker 3: It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and seventy six.

20
00:00:49,799 --> 00:00:51,000
Speaker 4: Well that sounds patriotic.

21
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,399
Speaker 3: I'm James Lynx here in Minneapolis and I'm joined by

22
00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:56,200
Stephen Hayward and I presume California.

23
00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 4: Yes, and this is the Ricochet Podcast.

24
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:00,719
Speaker 6: You can join us at by the.

25
00:01:00,679 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 3: Way and be part of the most stimulating conversations and

26
00:01:02,679 --> 00:01:03,640
community on the web.

27
00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:04,519
Speaker 4: Why don't you go there?

28
00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,959
Speaker 3: Well, not now, I mean you're you're you're leaning forward,

29
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,359
elbows on the table, wrapped, waiting to see where this

30
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:12,040
is all going to go.

31
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,719
Speaker 4: But you know, when we're done, amble over and see

32
00:01:14,719 --> 00:01:17,599
what all the fuss is about. Stephen? How are you today?

33
00:01:17,879 --> 00:01:19,799
How have things been? It's been two weeks.

34
00:01:19,879 --> 00:01:23,319
Speaker 3: Last week I was I was flat with a with

35
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,840
a stomach bug, not the stomach flu. There's no such

36
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,879
thing as stomach flu. I don't think, I mean, you

37
00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,519
can't have influenza of the you know, the g I part.

38
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,680
It was some bug, some neuro some campy, back to

39
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:38,719
some something.

40
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:40,159
Speaker 6: Right.

41
00:01:41,159 --> 00:01:41,680
Speaker 2: I'm fine.

42
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,640
Speaker 1: I'm still getting over a respiratory bug I caught a

43
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,840
week ago. But I'm back up and fighting form and

44
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,040
very happy about the news.

45
00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,519
Speaker 2: This week just been. You know, I'm not tired of winning.

46
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:51,560
I'll just put it that way.

47
00:01:52,239 --> 00:01:54,359
Speaker 3: Well, let's go down those lists of winds as you

48
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,560
see them. I'm sure some people regard them as mortal

49
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,400
blows against the American experts. But with your sunny optimism,

50
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,359
in your particular prism, what are the things that you

51
00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,080
what winnings do you like today.

52
00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:10,639
Speaker 1: Well, I think the biggest story of the week, and

53
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,080
I think you can't overstate how big it is is

54
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,759
the Trump administration rolling back what's been known as the

55
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,280
endangerment finding of the Opening.

56
00:02:20,759 --> 00:02:21,639
Speaker 4: That would be the one.

57
00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:25,599
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's the most consequential thing that I've got

58
00:02:25,759 --> 00:02:26,199
to explain.

59
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,800
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, I used to be when I

60
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:29,639
lived in Washington.

61
00:02:29,719 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 1: I marinated in all the fine points of the climate

62
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,479
policy and energy debate. And it's so and I want

63
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,680
to avoid the technical details because it gets thick and

64
00:02:36,719 --> 00:02:39,319
boring in a hurry. But what's important is is that

65
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,360
this was step one, now almost twenty years ago, essentially

66
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,520
for the federal government to take over the entire energy

67
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,439
system of the United States, and that meant nationalizing all

68
00:02:48,439 --> 00:02:51,319
the electric utilities. They never said that's what they were doing,

69
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,000
but that, in effect is what was happening.

70
00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:55,400
Speaker 2: And you know, I actually used to read through.

71
00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,800
Speaker 1: These fifteen hundred page draft plans of the EPA and

72
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,800
because I have a high threshold of pain, Well, so

73
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,280
if the Trump administration has done is not merely a

74
00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:07,599
simple bureaucratic step. But to make a long story short,

75
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,919
they've done patient work quietly over the last several years

76
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,000
Will Biden was president to lay the groundwork to not

77
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,319
only roll back the cornerstone of their power grab overpower

78
00:03:18,879 --> 00:03:21,319
good by that included our client standards, other things you

79
00:03:21,319 --> 00:03:24,719
and I have covetched about forever, but to make it

80
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,520
stick legally. And that's very important, and that gets the

81
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,919
way the bureaucratic wheels grind, and I think they are

82
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:32,680
going to be able to make it stick. But to me,

83
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:34,800
the most delicious part of all this is watching the

84
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,840
press coverage. So the ABC Evening News said Trump rolls

85
00:03:39,919 --> 00:03:43,159
back the power of the United States to control the climate.

86
00:03:43,879 --> 00:03:45,199
Speaker 2: That's what he said, Like, you know, we have a

87
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:46,280
knob in the ebs.

88
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,479
Speaker 1: You do just control the climate by turning a knob,

89
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,719
I mean, And you know, the New York Times is

90
00:03:50,759 --> 00:03:51,280
having a fit.

91
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,319
Speaker 2: I love their headline.

92
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,159
Speaker 1: Here is Trump allies near total victory in wiping out

93
00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,479
US climate regulation. And I thought, gosh, the Times that's

94
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,919
like it's a bad thing, right, And the Time says

95
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,680
that looks like they're going to be able to make

96
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,520
the stick. Unlike other things Trump is doing, that may

97
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,680
be reversed on day one by a democratic president.

98
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 3: Now I'm just a little old Country hic moron up

99
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,960
here in the fly flyover states. But to me, this

100
00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:21,040
is like reading a headline that says the Administration relaxes

101
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,120
ban on flogistin there is a I mean, let's go

102
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:27,439
back to two thousand and nine here, if I can

103
00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,279
read my notes. At two thousand and nine, which is

104
00:04:29,319 --> 00:04:33,480
when they began, the EPA found that carbon dioxide, which

105
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,480
I hope I never have anything to do with, methane,

106
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,399
and nitrous oxide, which of course that stuff you get

107
00:04:40,399 --> 00:04:42,319
at the dentist. It makes you feel better now, and

108
00:04:42,439 --> 00:04:45,560
three other greenhouse gases quote endangered the public health and

109
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,560
welfare of current and future generations. So one of the

110
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,000
Clean Air Act this was said, and then SCOTUS ruled

111
00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,519
a little while later that the agency could set the determinations. So,

112
00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,959
in other words, it's huge, huge power was lent to

113
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,879
these people predicated on the science that all of these

114
00:05:01,879 --> 00:05:04,519
greenhose gases are going to cause changes in the climate

115
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,560
that will be catastrophic, that will be expensive, that will

116
00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,920
kill people, that make the seas rise, all the rest

117
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,879
of it, And that has been gospel ever since. Right,

118
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,560
we are living in an era, as we've talked before,

119
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:22,360
of the authoritative, settled science, all the things that people know,

120
00:05:22,439 --> 00:05:24,879
all the institutions that people trusted, all of the experts

121
00:05:24,879 --> 00:05:27,439
and the rest of it. All that credibility is being dismantled.

122
00:05:27,439 --> 00:05:29,800
And this is one piece of that. Now you're right

123
00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,560
about the hysteria. I mean, the Barack Obama be tweeted

124
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:38,480
out that said that the endangement finding served as the

125
00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:42,040
basis for limits on tailpipe emissions. And I found that

126
00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:43,720
to be an interesting way to put it, because it's

127
00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:46,600
most of it's supposed to make people think, you know,

128
00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:51,560
of those huge, choking, horrible, stinky, dark clouds that come

129
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,519
from the back of every car. Tail pipe emissions I'm

130
00:05:54,519 --> 00:05:57,279
guessing at this point are significantly cleaner than they used

131
00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,519
to be, in part because they have to be. But

132
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,079
she remember back in the days of leaded gasoline when

133
00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:04,160
I was a child, I mean you would actually see

134
00:06:04,759 --> 00:06:07,160
you would see these anti pollution ads are the ones

135
00:06:07,199 --> 00:06:09,079
that had the fake Indian with the tear rolling down

136
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,839
his cheek, and you would see fleets of cars and

137
00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:16,399
this massive dark smoke billowing from underneath them.

138
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 6: I can still smell this stuff.

139
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,040
Speaker 3: Well, that isn't the case anymore so, finding saying that

140
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,360
tailpipe emissions might not be the thing exactly that gets

141
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,240
people all head up. And he also talked about power

142
00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:29,759
planned rules are going to be relaxed.

143
00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:36,240
Speaker 6: Well, maybe we need more power plants, and maybe we

144
00:06:36,319 --> 00:06:38,720
need more nuclear plants, but he says it's just to

145
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,879
the only reason is so the fossil fuel industry can

146
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:42,560
make more money.

147
00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:45,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know this recent cold snap we went through

148
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,199
a couple of weeks ago, coal and oil save the day.

149
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,199
You know, we actually don't generate any serious amount of

150
00:06:52,199 --> 00:06:54,399
electricity with oil anymore. It used to be fifty years

151
00:06:54,399 --> 00:06:57,000
ago twenty percent, but then oil got expensive, as we know,

152
00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,720
and we shifted to coal and natural gas. But in

153
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,240
the North the East, where they have been blocking natural

154
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,199
gas pipelines, they had to fire up a lot of

155
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,040
oil and diesel power generators to keep the lights on

156
00:07:07,079 --> 00:07:07,959
and keep people warm.

157
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:09,040
Speaker 2: And they've been on.

158
00:07:08,959 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 1: For I mean, I think I just read earlier this

159
00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:12,839
week that they finally in the New England shut off

160
00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:15,439
the last of the oil fired power plants they put

161
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:20,759
online for emergencies. Steps the tailpipe thing, Oh gosh, I

162
00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,240
know all the statistics on this, and yes, emissions of

163
00:07:23,319 --> 00:07:25,399
some things are down almost one hundred percent from what

164
00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:28,519
they were fifty years ago. To dramatize it for listeners,

165
00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:32,160
I show students a slide, and you'll appreciate this because

166
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:33,920
you're old enough as I am to have worked on

167
00:07:33,959 --> 00:07:36,120
a carburetor at one time in the line, Right, I

168
00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:37,639
always like to pop the hood and fiddle with the

169
00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:40,040
screwdriver and the carburetor. It probably made things worse. But

170
00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:43,360
we don't have carburetors anymore. We went to fuel injected engines, right.

171
00:07:44,079 --> 00:07:47,120
And another thing is that little flaps on our the

172
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,160
gas tanks where we put the nozzle in.

173
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:50,199
Speaker 2: We didn't used to have those.

174
00:07:50,639 --> 00:07:52,959
Speaker 1: Well, I show a slide to students when I go

175
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,279
through all this, and I show on the left side

176
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,199
a nineteen sixty seven Mustang parked in a driveway with

177
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,639
the engine off, and on the riot, I'll show a

178
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,240
late model or on two thousand and five Mustang driving

179
00:08:05,279 --> 00:08:07,040
down the highway at sixty miles an hour. And the

180
00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:09,600
trick question is which one of these cars is putting

181
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,160
out more air pollution? And of course the trick answer

182
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,279
is the Mustang parked in the driveway is emitting more

183
00:08:15,319 --> 00:08:18,839
pollution with its engine off than the Mustang driving down

184
00:08:18,839 --> 00:08:20,720
the road of sixty miles an hour with the engine on.

185
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,519
Speaker 3: Explain that way. Explain that counter intuitive example, Miss Well.

186
00:08:25,399 --> 00:08:28,279
Speaker 2: The technical term was fugitive emissions.

187
00:08:28,439 --> 00:08:30,279
Speaker 1: The reason we sealed up engines the way they are

188
00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:31,920
now that you can't get to him anymore, is to

189
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,480
stop essentially gasoling from evaporating.

190
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 2: It really was that simple.

191
00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:38,159
Speaker 1: It used to be tons of place like La where

192
00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:42,919
I grew up, significant amount of you know, gasoline evaporating

193
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,200
into the air from our old style cars from fifty

194
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,480
sixty years ago. We have none of that anymore. And

195
00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:50,519
that's why SOMEMOG levels have fallen, depending on the city

196
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,519
you're in, you know, by fifty sixty seventy percent. And

197
00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,399
I could say I can bore you silly, But I

198
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,320
also stop there and say Obama doesn't know what he's

199
00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:58,919
talking about.

200
00:08:58,960 --> 00:08:59,559
Speaker 2: As usual.

201
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,759
Speaker 3: Well, we're in a bit of a bind here because

202
00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,559
we say, well, you know, cars are cleaner today, the

203
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:05,360
air is cleaner today.

204
00:09:05,399 --> 00:09:07,279
Speaker 4: We don't need this stuff. A lot of the reasons

205
00:09:07,279 --> 00:09:09,919
that we have these advancements and we have cleaner engines.

206
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,240
Speaker 3: And the rest of it is because there has been

207
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,720
the heavy thumb of the federal government pushing down the

208
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,200
scale and telling everybody what they want.

209
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,399
Speaker 4: I mean, so we have to admit that probably.

210
00:09:19,039 --> 00:09:20,639
Speaker 3: We would not have the progress that we do if

211
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,279
it had been left up to the consumer or the

212
00:09:22,279 --> 00:09:23,120
industry itself.

213
00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,679
Speaker 4: I mean, what are you gonna do?

214
00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:28,360
Speaker 3: But the point is is that after you've done a

215
00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:31,799
certain amount of work, then the existence of the agency

216
00:09:31,799 --> 00:09:34,480
has to perpetuate itself and it has to justify itself.

217
00:09:34,519 --> 00:09:37,279
So you have ever more attempts to get cleaner and

218
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,360
cleaner and cleaner and cleaner, which are incremental and small

219
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,320
and petty in what they accomplish, but actually great in

220
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,720
the impact that they have on driveability, on the shape

221
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,919
of the cars, on survivability, and you know all of

222
00:09:49,919 --> 00:09:52,960
that stuff. So yes, I'm not gonna be one of

223
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,000
those guys who say we should go back to where

224
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,039
it was in sixty.

225
00:09:55,759 --> 00:09:57,519
Speaker 4: Eight when they were dumping cadmium in the river.

226
00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:01,279
Speaker 3: You could say that markets have aally would have fixed everything,

227
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:02,360
and maybe that's so.

228
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:04,679
Speaker 6: False.

229
00:10:04,759 --> 00:10:07,840
Speaker 4: Five, But we did clean things up.

230
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,080
Speaker 3: I mean, you remember ecology was oh yes, that's what

231
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,279
it was called back then, and it had all the

232
00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:16,360
raiments and all the trappings of a religion as it

233
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,840
does to this day. But it won, and it got

234
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,960
a lot of stuff good, and it changed public consciousness.

235
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,639
Speaker 4: But we have never moved.

236
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,519
Speaker 3: It seems like we haven't moved at all in public consciousness.

237
00:10:27,759 --> 00:10:32,080
Speaker 6: About the imminent demise of the late great planet Earth,

238
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:33,519
right of spaceship birth.

239
00:10:34,519 --> 00:10:37,799
Speaker 3: It seems like we're still back in seventy nine sixty nine,

240
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,159
where people are protesting somebody dumping cadmium in the river.

241
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,559
Speaker 1: Well, I actually think there has been some changes in

242
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,960
public opinion now. Of course, you're right, the climate cult

243
00:10:48,039 --> 00:10:49,879
or the environmental cult as I like to call them,

244
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,360
the true believers still think the world's coming to an

245
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,759
end tomorrow, and they get way too much press attention.

246
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:56,919
I think for a variety of reasons, and I've looked

247
00:10:56,919 --> 00:10:58,559
at a lot of surveys on this, a lot of

248
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,960
the public has been suffering from a while now from

249
00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:04,639
what I call apocalypse fatigue. Right, we we're hearing all

250
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,120
this stuff, and that's one reason why. It's why I

251
00:11:07,159 --> 00:11:09,879
think it doesn't stick anymore. I think what you would

252
00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:12,000
say is, and again my sort of summary line on

253
00:11:12,039 --> 00:11:15,480
this is what regulation did was in a few instances,

254
00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,960
make us get after things we would have otherwise ignored

255
00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:21,360
and it's sped up technological change and development that was

256
00:11:21,399 --> 00:11:23,000
already in process in the marketplace.

257
00:11:23,039 --> 00:11:24,360
Speaker 2: But most people don't know.

258
00:11:24,399 --> 00:11:26,840
Speaker 1: For example, that a lot of kinds of air pollution

259
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,120
were falling in the sixties pretty fast before the first

260
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,120
Clean Air Act passed. That wasn't because companies wanted to

261
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,639
be good. It's because they wanted to be more efficient

262
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,679
in their resource use. They also face some lawsuits, you know,

263
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,279
local nuisance suits and so forth, and so so. Regulation

264
00:11:42,399 --> 00:11:45,279
certainly has a role, but it's not the case. Well,

265
00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:46,759
I always put it this way. You know, it took

266
00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:48,840
the civil rights movement of the century to get to

267
00:11:48,879 --> 00:11:51,639
their milestones in the sixties with the Civil Rights Act.

268
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,399
A lot of the environmental organizations problemed today weren't founded

269
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,240
until after all that landmarkt legislation was passed in Congress

270
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,279
and then mostly lived the just file lawsuits.

271
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,200
Speaker 3: Well, one of the unexpected results of this is the

272
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,759
end of the stop start, stop start engine. I don't

273
00:12:07,799 --> 00:12:11,000
have one of those, Oh yeah, because I absolutely despise

274
00:12:11,039 --> 00:12:12,720
the idea, no matter how many people tell me that

275
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,039
they're wonderful and efficient and the.

276
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 4: Rest of it. Every time I drive in a car

277
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,960
with one of those things. I just I just.

278
00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:24,679
Speaker 3: First of all, the idea of legislating out of existence

279
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,840
the American urged to put it in neutral and revit

280
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,159
just because you can, just because you can. I mean,

281
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,679
when I drove a stick, I used to just absolutely love,

282
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,159
you know, just winding that thing up and then dropping it.

283
00:12:38,159 --> 00:12:39,480
Speaker 4: It's unamazing.

284
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,759
Speaker 1: I mean, that's as American as using too much lighter

285
00:12:41,799 --> 00:12:43,399
fluid on your barbecue, which we should all.

286
00:12:43,399 --> 00:12:44,919
Speaker 4: Do, absolutely so.

287
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 3: And then it's overfilling your zipon and putting that in

288
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,200
the pocket and getting one of those rashes.

289
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 4: But yeah, gosh, it's great to be an American.

290
00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:56,639
Speaker 3: Speaking of great Americans, we got Henry Olsen back, Henry

291
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,919
Senior fellow with the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

292
00:12:59,039 --> 00:13:00,879
Speaker 4: You can find his writings, oh, in.

293
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:07,399
Speaker 3: Countless places, the Washington Examiner, Commonplace, the Liberal Patriot, Brussels Signal.

294
00:13:07,919 --> 00:13:09,720
We'll have to ask him about Brussels here in a bit.

295
00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:11,559
You can also catch him on the air right here

296
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,879
at Ricochet, thet On Audio Network, because he.

297
00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:16,720
Speaker 4: Hosts Beyond the Polls and is of this year.

298
00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:20,679
Speaker 6: He's launched a new series, Conservative Crossroads, and we'll talk

299
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:21,759
a little bit more about that later.

300
00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:23,000
Speaker 4: As well, Henry, welcome back.

301
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,440
Speaker 5: Well thanks for having me back.

302
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,919
Speaker 4: Well good, So here we are now, Kime.

303
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,639
Speaker 3: When we had you back on last but probably the

304
00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:33,120
president's poll numbers were higher than they are now. I

305
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,039
think he's thirteen thirteen points underwater or something like that.

306
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,799
Of course, Gallup is pulling out of that business. I

307
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,120
don't know why is this accurate? Is this a reflection

308
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,840
of a fickle public? Is this because of ice? What's

309
00:13:44,919 --> 00:13:46,039
driving the numbers at the moment.

310
00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:48,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there's a lot of things driving the

311
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,799
numbers that First of all, the economy is not bad,

312
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,600
but it's not rip roaring good, especially if you are

313
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,519
the sort of person who had a difficult time in

314
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,240
the Biden inministration. Real wages are still lower than they

315
00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:06,799
were when Joe Biden took office. Getting better, but you're

316
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,360
still poorer on average than you were, and I think

317
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,960
people expected a quicker turnaround. I think the sheer amount

318
00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:16,960
of chaos and action that is coming from the Trump administration,

319
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,879
much of which is geared overseas, is sending a message

320
00:14:20,919 --> 00:14:24,080
he doesn't care about us, us being the marginal voter

321
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,480
who can go either way. And then I do think

322
00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:29,399
that it's a case of people want the president to

323
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,200
succeed on his objectives with immigration, but they think that

324
00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:35,919
the in the street, in your face, and all too

325
00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:40,480
often violent tactics, even if provoked, are a step too far.

326
00:14:40,519 --> 00:14:42,720
And I think the combination of those things is why

327
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,039
the swing voter in America had swung toward him and

328
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,720
now are currently swinging against second.

329
00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 4: Boitt is interesting.

330
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:50,679
Speaker 3: As much as we were told that we were done

331
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,639
with foreign wars and entanglements and all the rest of it,

332
00:14:52,679 --> 00:14:55,679
We're going to be America first, But it's not as

333
00:14:55,759 --> 00:14:59,399
if we are engaged in protracted, long kinetic exercises in

334
00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:01,679
places with building of the sort that we had before.

335
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,840
Is it possible for those people who are suspicious of

336
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:11,519
foreign entanglements and or adventures still might be saying, hey,

337
00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:13,679
you know, if Cuba topples of its own court after

338
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,639
we cut off the gas, maybe that's a good thing.

339
00:15:16,879 --> 00:15:19,639
Speaker 5: You know, there's not a whole lot of support for

340
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,919
long ground wars. There's not a whole lot of opposition

341
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,039
in the Trump coalition to short victorious wars or the

342
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,080
exercise of American power to stop the bad guys. And

343
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,360
I think Venezuela was a perfect example of that Operation

344
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,519
Midnight Hammer, and Iran was another example of that. And

345
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,240
if they managed to topple or significantly reform the regime

346
00:15:40,279 --> 00:15:43,639
in Cuba without firing a shot, not only will jubilation

347
00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:48,720
be heard in South Florida, but I think most people

348
00:15:48,759 --> 00:15:50,639
who are open to voting for Trump would be very

349
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:51,159
happy with that.

350
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,399
Speaker 1: Okay, Henry, I want to ask you about the Gallop

351
00:15:54,799 --> 00:15:57,960
decision to stop daily tracking polls. And I mean, I

352
00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:00,279
wonder is it just because some of the other people

353
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,840
are doing it now that they don't need to anymore,

354
00:16:01,919 --> 00:16:05,120
or has it gotten more difficult or expensive or related

355
00:16:05,159 --> 00:16:08,960
to this, and or I observe that every recent president

356
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,080
has landed in the low forties after a while, going

357
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,159
back now at least to George W. Bush right, And

358
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,679
I'm wondering now if that's a new pattern in American

359
00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:18,679
presidential approval.

360
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,919
Speaker 2: So the whole number is, it's not meaningless.

361
00:16:20,919 --> 00:16:23,519
Speaker 1: I understand the correlations between low approval ratings and how

362
00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:26,240
you fare in the midterms. I wonder if this is

363
00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:29,360
the new normal in American presidential politics, whereas you know

364
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,399
the other party doesn't like you, and so you're already

365
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,600
you know, you're already down to fifty percent, and then

366
00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:39,039
the independence and the swing voters who pay attention at

367
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,639
various levels, they defect in a hurry, and so everybody

368
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,720
lands after a couple of years down around forty two

369
00:16:43,799 --> 00:16:44,799
to forty five percent.

370
00:16:45,799 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 5: Now I think there's some, uh, there's some truth to that,

371
00:16:48,519 --> 00:16:51,320
but there's also I think the general fact that we

372
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,960
haven't had a successful presidency in unambiguously successful presidency in

373
00:16:56,039 --> 00:17:01,159
many decades. So you've got Obama coming to power, saying

374
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,559
that he's going to bring hope and change, and then

375
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,000
he focuses his attention on things he didn't campaign on,

376
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,319
leading to Obamacare, and you have President Trump's chaotic first

377
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,359
couple of years. And then you have Joe Biden, who

378
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,680
said he was going to bring normalcy back and instead

379
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,440
he heightens the divisions and we have the highest inflation

380
00:17:22,519 --> 00:17:25,119
in forty years and the breakout of war. So you

381
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,279
look and you say, why would you expect approval ratings

382
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,799
over fifty percent when you actually look at the interplay

383
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,000
between what these candidates said and did, and I think

384
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,720
Trump is falling into that same a pattern.

385
00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, all right, But the counter argument, though, Henry,

386
00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:43,759
is that Trump was almost re elected in twenty twenty

387
00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:48,279
even with the COVID disaster and impeachment, and Kamala Harris

388
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,480
almost won in twenty twenty four despite inheriting the terrible

389
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,960
record and ratings of Biden. So that's why I think

390
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,759
that now maybe there's I have a look at the

391
00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:00,920
numbers the way you do, which you know you don't sleep.

392
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,279
Speaker 2: Because you're up all night looking at these things all

393
00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:02,839
over the world.

394
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,519
Speaker 1: We know this, But I'm wondering if that the numbers

395
00:18:05,559 --> 00:18:09,680
simply less not insignificant, but less meaningful than it used

396
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:09,839
to be.

397
00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 5: I think what's true is that we have a much

398
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:17,640
narrower event band, you know, and that is caused by partisanship.

399
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,640
That if eighty five to ninety percent of people who

400
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,839
are going to be polled are on one team or

401
00:18:23,839 --> 00:18:25,880
the other, they're not going to give the leader of

402
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,519
the other team a whole lot of credit. But that

403
00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:30,079
doesn't explain the variation within the band. And that's what

404
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,119
I was trying to say, is that Donald Trump has

405
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:38,279
negative job approval, but his strongly dislike or strongly disapproved

406
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,200
numbers doesn't really rise above forty or forty one percent.

407
00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:44,720
That's the other team, and the same is generally true

408
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:48,319
during the Biden administration. Yeah, he had terrible job approval numbers.

409
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,480
But the difference between forty eight or fifty and forty

410
00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:56,599
one or forty two is the people who somewhat disapprove

411
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,039
and sometimes they can somewhat approve. So yeah, I'd say

412
00:18:59,759 --> 00:19:01,680
we no longer. We'll get a president who will get

413
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,039
sixty percent or seventy percent job approval ratings, as was

414
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:10,039
not uncommon at all during the fifties through the nineties.

415
00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:13,759
But the difference between forty two and forty eight is

416
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,359
not caused by partisanship.

417
00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, let's shift gears to your new initiative, Conservative Crossroads,

418
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,480
and I want to ask you a question. Is there

419
00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:25,880
I want to have a debate with yourself. In other words,

420
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,079
I want to see if we can't create a schizophrenic

421
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,200
episode of Conservative Crossroads by asking you, Henry Olsen, there

422
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,559
are one or two issues over whatever time, Fray you want,

423
00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:37,200
that you have substantially changed your mind about, and what

424
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,000
are they and why?

425
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,400
Speaker 5: I've substantially changed my mind about a lot of things

426
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,480
over the last since you and I met each other

427
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:49,599
many years ago. I've changed my mind about the possibility

428
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:55,680
and the desirability of a very small federal government. I

429
00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,519
think that the rise of the New Deal, while diverted

430
00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:06,640
in directions that are inconsistent with American Republicanism, was actually,

431
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:12,119
on the whole a largely beneficial and unstoppable trend. Because

432
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,519
of the question for human dignity, I've changed a lot

433
00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:17,279
about that, So that means I've changed my mind about

434
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,279
questions like the appropriate level of taxation and spending. You know,

435
00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:24,640
I would have agreed with always trying to starve the

436
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,720
beast in the eighties, and now I don't agree with

437
00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:30,880
starving the beast. I think raising taxes on people is

438
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,680
not necessarily a job killer. It depends how you raise

439
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,079
them and where you raise them level that they're at.

440
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,480
And then you know, with respect to foreign policy, I

441
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,079
would say I became I was very chastened by the

442
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,079
failures in Iraq and Afghanistan and the failures of our

443
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:51,079
allies to actually act as allies as opposed to supplicants.

444
00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:54,680
You know, I was at a Canadian embassy event thirteen

445
00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:57,079
years ago, and I learned. I listened to them, and

446
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,759
I realized that American leadership and American deership, and I

447
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:04,599
politely said, yeah, you can talk about different levels, but

448
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:06,880
you're going to have to do more. And I've never

449
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,960
been invited back to the embassy, But so I have

450
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,680
moved on a host of issues in a way because

451
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,720
Ronald Reagan said in his nineteen seventy seven Seapack speech

452
00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:23,960
that an ideologue fits the facts to meet his theories,

453
00:21:24,079 --> 00:21:27,240
like sitting them in a pro krusty in bed, where

454
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,720
if they stand over for people who aren't interested in

455
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,359
either the Perry Percy Jackson series or Greek mythology, that

456
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,480
means if you're too long for the bed, pro Krusty's

457
00:21:35,519 --> 00:21:40,559
cuts your legs off. Whereas a conservative somebody who ejects

458
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:46,160
changes his not principles, but his direction based on facts

459
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,240
on the ground. And I changed my direction based on

460
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,799
what I consider to be facts on the ground.

461
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,039
Speaker 6: If I may interject, let's go to taxation.

462
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 3: Taxation, for example, I think is something that the state

463
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,880
ought to do the least amount of because it's a

464
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,680
distorting mechanism. It requires obfiscation of private property by the

465
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,119
force of the state. And my example, when I sat

466
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,880
down and put and wrote out a check for my

467
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:09,839
estimated taxes for the state of Minnesota, I felt like

468
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,400
an absolute fool. There are times when I just think, oh, yeah, well,

469
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,480
there's a lot of wasteful spending on there. But you know,

470
00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:19,319
on the other hand, Social Compact, Wendy Anderson, and now

471
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,240
I feel like an idiot because billions of dollars of

472
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,799
that that that we all sent to them was completely misused,

473
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,839
was completely wasted, was spent on fraud, and the state

474
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:28,720
did nothing about it and.

475
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 4: Doesn't seem to really particularly care other than saying, look

476
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:31,920
over there.

477
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 3: So I'm I'm less inclined to say yay taxation, and

478
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,839
I'm curious to know what you what your rationale is

479
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,240
for saying yes, by gum, let's hoover up more into

480
00:22:46,279 --> 00:22:49,279
the arms of the state, and the next time.

481
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 4: They'll spend it absolutely correctly.

482
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 5: Next most of the money is spent correctly. I mean, yes,

483
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,000
there's fraud and they should be doing more about it.

484
00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:59,480
And Minnesota is an egregious example, but you know, let's

485
00:22:59,519 --> 00:23:02,440
take a look at where we are. I favor state

486
00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:05,920
level tax cut. States tend to be in a position

487
00:23:06,319 --> 00:23:10,400
where they aren't running deficits, they have access revenues they've

488
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,720
already met. I mean, Steve laughs because he's in California

489
00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:19,480
with yeah, but you take a look at Republican states

490
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,960
that have been cutting income taxes dramatically in the last

491
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,880
five years. It's all from surplus revenue. And you read

492
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,279
the budget announcements and they're always saying, well, we're doing this,

493
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,640
and we're spending money on K through twelve, and we're

494
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,880
doing this, and we're doing this. That's because most states

495
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,279
have met the basic level of what their voters want.

496
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,599
They have a strong safety net, they have a strong

497
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,960
transportation system, they have a strong public safety system, they

498
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,759
have a strong support for public education, in the environment.

499
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,920
In those worlds, yeah, let's cut taxes, but that's not

500
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,720
where the federal government is. We're running five to six

501
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:58,079
percent of GDP deficit, nearly two trillion dollars. We've got

502
00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:02,400
nearly one hundred percent of GDP in debt. We're never

503
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,960
going to pay that debt down. We're going to We're

504
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,160
paying spending a trillion dollars a year, over three percent

505
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,519
of GDP simply to pay the interest on that debt.

506
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,079
And it strikes me that, yes, there's plenty of places

507
00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:17,200
I would like to cut I've written about it, but

508
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,079
we're not going to solve that deficit problem, and we're

509
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,400
certainly not going to pay for the national defense that

510
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:28,640
we need to counter China based on growth. And I

511
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,359
think it's we should raise taxes to recognize the fact

512
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,720
that forty years have starved the beast, have simply bloated

513
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,799
the debt, and we're not going to start the beast

514
00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:42,839
because Americans don't want to starve the beast. Republicans don't

515
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,640
want to starve the beast. So the question is, how

516
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,559
can we get to put the beast on a diet

517
00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:51,000
and how can we increase our muscle through taxation so

518
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:53,920
that we do what people want, what we need, and

519
00:24:54,039 --> 00:24:56,440
we don't bankrupt our children and grandchildren.

520
00:24:56,519 --> 00:24:58,799
Speaker 3: In the state, you have to gate Donald Frum going

521
00:24:58,839 --> 00:25:00,880
in front of the you State of the Union and

522
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,720
saying we've got to raise taxes on the middle class

523
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,680
because that's where money is.

524
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 5: Look, there's a lot of ways you can raise revenue.

525
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:14,559
You know, for example, people who are wealthy seniors pay

526
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:18,200
only about on an average, twenty eight percent of their

527
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:21,960
cost in Medicare Part B and Part D premiums. If

528
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,000
you're making one hundred and fifty grand and you're seventy

529
00:25:24,079 --> 00:25:26,680
years old, why not pay one hundred percent. You know,

530
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,839
why is it that people who are in the top

531
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,039
two tax brackets get in deduction for home mortgage interest

532
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,319
at all? They don't need it to buy their home.

533
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,640
This is just a layap, you know, a giveaway. There's

534
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,960
lots of ways to raise revenue without raising rates. And

535
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,640
let's see where we come after that, before we talk

536
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,799
about raising taxes on the middle class.

537
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: Oh oh, Henry, I was afraid you were going to

538
00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:51,599
go full Rhino on us and you were not disappointing.

539
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 5: Well, gee, you know, let me put it to you

540
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,960
this way. You can't win a national election. Yeah, okay, right,

541
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:03,279
who provide Donald Trump his majority are people who voted

542
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:07,960
for Obama against Romney, Obama against McCain, carry against Bush.

543
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,920
And the reason he had a popular vote majority is

544
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,319
the people who voted for Biden and Clinton who decided

545
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,839
to change their votes. You can't win a majority with.

546
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 2: What well, well, let me give let me give it

547
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:18,680
to you that.

548
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,599
Speaker 1: Look, I'm in considerable agreement with you for different grounds. First,

549
00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:26,599
I think I'm with James that I still have Milton

550
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,119
Freeman's attitude that I'm for cutting any tax at any

551
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,000
time for any reason except now here to be wonky

552
00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:35,279
for a minute, and because you just did some yourself,

553
00:26:35,519 --> 00:26:36,319
we couldn't stop you.

554
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 2: I think it was Bill Bill A. Scannon, the late

555
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,119
Bill NA Scan.

556
00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: A good conservative, Republican economists, libertarian, Cato Institute guy, I

557
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,519
think twenty years ago. He did the empirical work, and

558
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:49,279
I found convincing that in fact the Reagan tax cuts

559
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:53,279
and other attempts actually increased spending. Wasn't the debt he

560
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,440
was looking at. He said, it didn't have the effect

561
00:26:55,519 --> 00:26:58,319
of starving the beast. Instead, the beast figured out new

562
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,440
ways to gorge. Which is why I've thought, and boy,

563
00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:03,480
get a lot of pushback on this. I thought, Okay,

564
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,000
if starve the beast doesn't work, maybe we ought to

565
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:09,200
adopt the strategy which is yours, I think. But I'll

566
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,839
stay it this way, serve the check. And my proposition

567
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,559
is if the American people, all the American people, the

568
00:27:15,559 --> 00:27:17,960
middle class teams bring up, if they had to pay

569
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,240
for all the government we got, they might want a

570
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,079
lot less of it, and so there would be a

571
00:27:22,079 --> 00:27:24,119
failure nerve of Republicans or anybody else.

572
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 5: You know, I just don't see what I see from

573
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,599
the States where you don't have the deficit. Problem is

574
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,720
that Republicans don't want to cut You take a look

575
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,079
at the example I like to use of Alaska. Alaska

576
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,920
state has no packs, state packs, no sedale tacks, but

577
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,640
they do have the permanent fund of oil dividends, and

578
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,519
each person gets thousands of dollars a year from the state. Well,

579
00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:55,240
because of the shortfall and oil, they've been cutting that

580
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,400
in app and when Governor Donalleevy took over in twenty nineteen,

581
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,920
he presented a you know, let's shrink the state budget.

582
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,039
He said, we can double what you get, which is

583
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:11,200
thousands of dollars a year regardless of income for each person.

584
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,319
So a family for would get like seven grand a

585
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,359
year back. All we have to do is cut state

586
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,480
government twenty five percent. He was nearly impeached crually, I

587
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:22,799
mean not impeached. He's nearly recalled. They had definitely his

588
00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:27,200
approval ratings, saying he had to retreat. They've been spending

589
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,359
down their savings every year, and each year he says,

590
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,000
let's have a discussion about what level of state we have.

591
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,599
Republicans don't want to cut government twenty five percent to

592
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,440
get thousands of dollars back in their pocket. No possible

593
00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:44,359
tax cut can give individuals more money than doubling the

594
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,640
PFD and Alaska would have given and they almost ran

595
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,680
the Republican out of Dodge.

596
00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what he has to be able

597
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,160
to do in Alaska as he hasn't been able to

598
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,519
get the federal government to lift their thumb off of

599
00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:56,200
oil production.

600
00:28:56,319 --> 00:28:57,359
Speaker 2: So you made all the numbers.

601
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: Alaska production peaked in the eighties at two million barrels

602
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,799
a day. Now it's under five hundred thousand bears. It's

603
00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:06,440
fallen by more than seventy five percent, and of course

604
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,400
oil prices adjusted for inflation, have actually gone down. But

605
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,480
of course, you know democrats and the environmental group stuff. Okay,

606
00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:14,000
you know all that part of it. But the other

607
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,079
thing is Henry. And I'm surprised that you haven't invoked

608
00:29:17,079 --> 00:29:20,720
our mutual hero Ronald Reagan, who used to say, you know,

609
00:29:20,839 --> 00:29:23,559
it's the problem with spinning is growing like this. He

610
00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:25,519
put his arm up at a forty five degree angle,

611
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,519
something like this is what we need to do is

612
00:29:27,559 --> 00:29:29,440
make it grow like this, and he'd lower his arm

613
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,640
to a thirty degree angle.

614
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: That works.

615
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: And so, for example, Florida has not cut its budget. However,

616
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,680
Florida's budget today, the state of Florida, its budget is

617
00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:41,519
lower than the budget for the state for New York

618
00:29:41,599 --> 00:29:46,279
City under Mundami, Right, with a bigger population, much better results. Right,

619
00:29:46,359 --> 00:29:48,440
So I don't think it's really I think you put it.

620
00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:52,359
I always hate that phrase, a false choice, that's overused

621
00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:54,839
and it's a cop out. But I do think in

622
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,440
this case it's not a matter of having big slashing

623
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,480
of budgets, but it does need some kind of discipline

624
00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:00,759
we haven't seen for a long time.

625
00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:03,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't have Again, I don't have a problem

626
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:06,359
with spending discipline. But that's doesn't allow you to cut

627
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,240
every tax all the time. You know, is that you

628
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:11,160
don't have a whole lot of tax cutting going on

629
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,279
in Florida. You know, of course they don't have an

630
00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:19,279
income tax, and you've got a little cutting of taxes

631
00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:20,079
on the edge.

632
00:30:20,839 --> 00:30:22,359
Speaker 2: Let me ask you, Oh, let me sorry, let me

633
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:22,799
bring us up.

634
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt, Henry, but it does play into the

635
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,160
longer history of this. Desantas has been making noises about

636
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,200
abolishing the property tax.

637
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 4: Ye, the idea about that idea, Yeah.

638
00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:33,839
Speaker 5: It's a terrible idea.

639
00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: That's what I think too.

640
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 5: But yeah, the reason why it's a terrible idea is

641
00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:41,319
that the reason why it worked in California when you know,

642
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,599
the people when we were younger and Prop thirteen cut

643
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,200
property taxes by about two thirds, was because California had

644
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,240
a massive budget surplus and basically kept the level of

645
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:55,400
spending up by transferring the burden from the property tax

646
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:02,319
to the income tax. Florida doesn't have this multi billion

647
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,680
dollar annual state annual state surplus that it can just

648
00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:09,880
throw around. It's got reserves. But if you want to

649
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,640
abolish the property tax, people want well funded public schools.

650
00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:21,200
They want well funded public safety, police, probation, fire that

651
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,160
comes from the property tax. If you abolish the property tax,

652
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,839
something has to pay for it, because I can tell

653
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,720
you Republican voters don't want to significantly cut in those areas.

654
00:31:32,759 --> 00:31:35,440
You can change the rate of growth somewhat, you know,

655
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,519
get rid of some wasteful employees in public education, fine,

656
00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:43,519
I'm fine with that. Renegotiate contracts so it's not goal plated,

657
00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:46,359
and you can fire bad teachers. Great. So you move

658
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,400
from having to replace one hundred percent of current spending

659
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,839
with eighty five percent of current spending that's good, but

660
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,640
you still have to actually spend what people want and

661
00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:58,880
tax for it. And that's why government Desanta's idea is

662
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,039
not a good one, because he's talking about eliminating the

663
00:32:01,079 --> 00:32:05,000
tax without really prudently preparing for backfilling.

664
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:08,799
Speaker 3: The spanis well, yeah, I mean, I get that. The

665
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,880
problem is that the cointacular nature of the state means

666
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,039
that everything is interconnected and started to do this without

667
00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:16,000
doing that. You can say, we can get rid of

668
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,079
the property tax and then we'll find a better way

669
00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:20,559
to fund the schools. Well, we'll do that by eliminating

670
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:22,920
public schools and giving everybody a voucher, and in the

671
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,160
long run that may indeed work, and all of a

672
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,200
sudden you've cut the costs because you're not having to

673
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,759
deal with unions, etcetera, etc. But that second part isn't

674
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:33,279
going to happen, and the first part requires the second

675
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:37,039
part to happen, and the second part requires a dismantling.

676
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:40,920
Everything becomes just like trying to do a Rubik's cube

677
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:41,200
in the.

678
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 4: Dark during a hurricane.

679
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,319
Speaker 3: The reason a lot of people want to get rid

680
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,960
of the property tax, there's something that galls them to

681
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,559
think that they can actually own something. But if they

682
00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:53,759
don't continue to cough up with the state requires them,

683
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:55,599
the state will come and take it away. And so

684
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,200
you don't really own your home. Nobody really does. And

685
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:02,839
I can understand why that animates some people. I see

686
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,759
your point there about the you know, the funding mechanisms,

687
00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:10,480
but gosh, let's start with schools and fix that and

688
00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:12,359
then maybe go to the funding mechanisms.

689
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:16,839
Speaker 6: TV. You had something else because I wanted to ask.

690
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 3: Get into the question and hear about the Conservative Crossroads

691
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:20,240
the new podcast.

692
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I was going to propose a whole new

693
00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:25,920
topic for Henry to take up on Conservative Crossroads, and

694
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:26,599
it's immigration.

695
00:33:27,319 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 6: Ah.

696
00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:29,839
Speaker 1: And there's two parts of this, and maybe the need

697
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:33,240
more than one. I mean one is I'll confess. I'll

698
00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:35,640
make a guilty confessional listeners who will flame me for this.

699
00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:38,720
I was always something of an immigration dove. I was

700
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,680
not open borders, and I thought there were the numbers

701
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,480
were too high, but generally thinking immigration, even a lot

702
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,200
of illegal immigration, had economic benefits. I'm now an immigration hawk.

703
00:33:47,319 --> 00:33:50,720
That's something I've changed my mind about, rather dratic, dramatically,

704
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,559
but you know, a lot of our libertarian friends, like

705
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:56,319
the Cato people, are still effectively open borders and have

706
00:33:56,359 --> 00:33:58,799
always numbers about how even in high numbers it's great

707
00:33:58,880 --> 00:33:59,240
for us.

708
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 2: So I think that's dubious.

709
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: And then the second related part is birthright citizenship coming

710
00:34:04,759 --> 00:34:07,119
before the court soon. And you know, it used to

711
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,760
be the person's the only people who denied or made

712
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,440
the case against birthright citizenship in a serious way, where

713
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,760
our friends John Eastman and Ed Erler, and that was

714
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,199
about it. But now there are more and more people

715
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,599
Elin Morman up there in Minnesota, down from James and

716
00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:23,880
a lot of other people Richard Epstein, I think, to

717
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,079
some extent are saying, yeah, wait a minute, maybe this't

718
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:30,199
so clear. So anyway, there's two topics for you. But

719
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,840
where do you fall out on all that? And if

720
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,719
you want to talk about public opinion, that's fine.

721
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, you know, first of all, Conservative Crossroads is

722
00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:39,760
going to have a debate in early March between Mark

723
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,440
Raccrian and Neil Bradley from the US Chamber on the

724
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:46,400
question of H one B visas. There you go, yeah, yes,

725
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,119
we are not shying away from this, you know, is

726
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:53,880
Mark coming down down? My view on illegal immigration is

727
00:34:54,400 --> 00:35:01,760
Sonny bonos, it's illegal. I do not have much sympathy

728
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,760
for people who have managed to evade the law here.

729
00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:10,079
And I also think that Trump, with his famous use

730
00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:13,599
of leverage, ought to deport everybody everywhere he can find,

731
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,719
because that puts the leverage on the left and businesses

732
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,000
to finally deal with the question that we haven't dealt

733
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,800
with the last thirty years, which is how much and

734
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,159
what types? When you get to that point, I would

735
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:31,280
be perfectly happy to have a reasonable amount of migration

736
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:37,039
that's tied to employment and tied not to visas that

737
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:40,960
are essentially indentured servitude, which is what hb ones are,

738
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,360
but instead are general we think you have the skills

739
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:47,760
as long as you can show that you have some

740
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,599
degree to support yourself and your immediate but not extended

741
00:35:51,639 --> 00:35:54,400
family come on in and you're not tied to a

742
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,559
particular employer while you're here. I don't know what that

743
00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:02,719
level is more on either out. It's less than a

744
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,079
million and a half a year, which is what we've

745
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:09,639
been taking in legally, mainly because of chain migration. And

746
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:14,079
I think we should have everifying mandatory. I think there

747
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,119
should be audits, and I've written these things. These are

748
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:20,840
not new. I think the irs should pivot its audit

749
00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:26,039
from high wealth individuals to business returns, and disallow wage

750
00:36:26,039 --> 00:36:29,960
and benefit deductions for people who are not found on everify.

751
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:34,440
You want to stop illegal migration, stop feeding the beast,

752
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,679
stop giving the ability to be here. They're most of

753
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,280
them are not on benefits or scamming the system. They're working,

754
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:47,480
and they're taking jobs that could go albeit at higher

755
00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:51,159
wages and benefits, to meet the expectations of native born Americans.

756
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,639
So get at the people who are feeding the beast.

757
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,440
And I think that we should have a much higher

758
00:36:57,519 --> 00:37:01,480
tax on remittances from people who can knock demonstrate that

759
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:04,719
they're in the country legally. You want to let's dry

760
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,119
up the swamp and get at the demand for illegal.

761
00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:12,519
Speaker 1: Okay, well we'll take one of your rhino horns back

762
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:13,719
from you then, Henry, that was good.

763
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:15,159
Speaker 6: Well, no, I just want to be clear.

764
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,519
Speaker 3: Beast wise federal governments stopped starving, and beast wise immigration starve.

765
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,519
Speaker 4: Just so, just in case anybody.

766
00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:27,159
Speaker 5: It should be US plus not competition off.

767
00:37:28,199 --> 00:37:31,199
Speaker 1: By the way, Henry, your invocation of Sonny Bono allows

768
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:32,960
me to tell a rob long type story.

769
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 2: It's thirty five years ago.

770
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: Now we're more When he was mayor of Palm Springs.

771
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,360
I don't remember how it happened, when we had lunch

772
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,239
together and he was then planning to run against Gray Davis,

773
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,679
remember him for a lieutenant governor, And I said, oh, Sonny,

774
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,719
I've got your your bumper sticker. It'll be better Sonny

775
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,679
than Gray. And maybe our producer can put in a

776
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,920
rim shot at this point, but still he was great.

777
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,039
Speaker 2: That guy was so underestimated, and boy do I miss him?

778
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,559
Speaker 5: Yeah? No, I mean that skiing accident was a terrible thing,

779
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,239
and he was much much more effective and much smarter

780
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,760
than the people are willing to give him credit.

781
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 3: So Conservative Crossroads is about, you know, the discussion is

782
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,400
going on within the right. Yes, how much of the

783
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,960
pro immigration Chamber of Commerce stiment that you're describing before,

784
00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:23,519
how much of that is held by the right these days,

785
00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:25,719
because it seems to me to be about a ninety

786
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:26,480
ten issue.

787
00:38:27,519 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 5: Well, it depends what type of immigration you're talking about.

788
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,639
If you're talking about illegal immigration, it is, which is

789
00:38:32,679 --> 00:38:36,679
why I'm not having a discussion on illegal immigration. You know,

790
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,920
I may have something later this year about mandatory use

791
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,000
of the verify, where I would guess the Chamber will

792
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,840
say no, we don't want that business burden. But on

793
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:52,159
legal immigration is dramatic differences of opinion. We may very

794
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:54,360
well come up with that. You know, I think we're

795
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,400
the Republican base, but I think more broadly, in terms

796
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,880
of the potential Republican coalition, there's significant differences not on

797
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,840
the question of illegal immigration and deportation, but on questions

798
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,960
of h one B's, on questions of the degree to

799
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,719
which we should have legal immigration, the degree to which

800
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,199
we should have forbearans, for people who have been here

801
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,039
for a long time, or have American citizen children, and

802
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:26,400
so forth. There's a large difference of opinion questions, and

803
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,480
they're unquantifiable. They're difficult things to nail down because people

804
00:39:29,519 --> 00:39:31,960
will say, yes, illegal has begune. But on the other hand,

805
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,960
when presented with the example of somebody who's been here

806
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,519
for thirty years, has never done anything wrong, has got

807
00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:38,239
a business, the wife, child, the rest of it, has

808
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,360
lived in an exemplar real life, a lot of people say, well,

809
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:46,159
you know, I can see making you know you can't vote,

810
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,480
but you have to do this, and they come up

811
00:39:48,519 --> 00:39:52,239
with this elaborate process which other people think the minute

812
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,960
we get that it's going to be amnesty and forget

813
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,360
about it, and they're all going to be citizens.

814
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 6: And that's that.

815
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:57,679
Speaker 4: That's one part of it.

816
00:39:57,679 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 3: The second part of it that we don't talk about

817
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,280
is the cultural impact of this and how it changes places.

818
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,920
Specifically when small towns have to deal with influx is

819
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,000
because they're the guys who work in the meatpacking plant

820
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:08,000
or or you.

821
00:40:08,039 --> 00:40:09,039
Speaker 6: Know, the factory or whatever.

822
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 3: And that's a conversation that the right doesn't seem to

823
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,159
want to have at all, and it's sort of it's

824
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,599
left to return with the unsavory types on the internet,

825
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,760
to go straight straight to the mass deportation theory and

826
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,199
saying just everybody got to go.

827
00:40:24,199 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 5: One of the things Conservative Crossroads is trying it is

828
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,239
trying to do is say, we have to talk about

829
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,880
these things. We can't pretend that we that we agree

830
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,440
on everything, because we don't. We have large agreement at

831
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,599
the level of principle. We have large disagreement on specific things.

832
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,840
And it's precisely by leaning into it that you minimize

833
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,199
the opportunity of people to present themselves kind of as

834
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,480
you know, the custodian of the secret key. This is

835
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,199
what they don't want to tell you, and then you

836
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,280
open up all these weird conspiracy theories and bogus stuff.

837
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,719
But if no one's talking about the problem and the

838
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,679
only person who's talking about the problem is a maligned

839
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,039
nut job, some people are going to be seduced by

840
00:41:07,079 --> 00:41:10,360
the maligned nutjob. So let's let's open the doors. Let's

841
00:41:10,679 --> 00:41:13,599
have these discussions and say it's okay for conservatives to

842
00:41:13,639 --> 00:41:17,119
talk about it, and hopefully that means a healthier conservatism

843
00:41:17,119 --> 00:41:17,320
in the.

844
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,159
Speaker 3: End, especially when somebody is saying there's no such thing

845
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:22,559
as the great replacement theory, and then you have somebody

846
00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:24,960
in Spain saying, what we knew need to do is

847
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,719
to replace all these people greatly.

848
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and every other college course is and whiteness, right,

849
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,719
I mean they put that on the titles, and gee,

850
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:33,679
we're not supposed to think.

851
00:41:33,599 --> 00:41:34,119
Speaker 2: They mean it.

852
00:41:36,639 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 6: Before we you know, before we go, and we're going

853
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:39,320
to let you and we're not going.

854
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 4: We're not done. We're not done with you yet.

855
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 3: Henry Concert Conservative Conservative Crossroads is the coming podcast. It's

856
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,840
going to be great. But also you've written elsewhere. You're

857
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:48,639
in commonplace.

858
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 4: You wrote a piece.

859
00:41:49,639 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 3: About the st FU or the st the state of

860
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,360
the Union speech, and you're giving some advice to the president. Now,

861
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,599
we're all tired of the State of the Union speeches,

862
00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:02,760
especially when it becomes a long, legislative loundry list of

863
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,199
things that are good that we can spend money on.

864
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,719
It would be nice if somebody got up read a postcard,

865
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,800
since State of Union is great, good Calvin Coolidge, goodbye.

866
00:42:10,639 --> 00:42:13,159
Speaker 4: But no, so you would said that he should.

867
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 3: Talk about tariffs and let's start there, because tariffs have

868
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,039
not been in the forefront of the American imagination or

869
00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:25,159
discussion recentlyncas just ninety other things he's done, but.

870
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,039
Speaker 6: That he should bring them up and he should tell

871
00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:28,079
people that they're good.

872
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 4: Why.

873
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,199
Speaker 5: Look, what the president does not have is a coherent,

874
00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:39,119
consistent argument for his economic policies. He's one of his

875
00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:41,880
strengths is that he's transactional. But in this case, the

876
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,039
political thing is that one of his weakness is that

877
00:42:45,079 --> 00:42:47,840
he's haphazard. And what I'm saying is, Look, what you

878
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,800
need to do is tell the American people what you

879
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,719
say in pieces elsewhere, but put it all in one place,

880
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,159
which is Look, the reason we have had a weak

881
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,800
economy that doesn't work for every American, for the last

882
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,079
three five years is this, we've favored foreigners and consumption

883
00:43:04,559 --> 00:43:09,400
more than Americans and production. We bring people in, often

884
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,199
illegally to compete with you for jobs, and that drives

885
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,679
down your wage benefits because guess what, somebody who comes

886
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,119
from Guatemala, where the minimum wage is three dollars an hour,

887
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,559
is going to accept a lower salary than you, who

888
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:24,840
have to have expectations of an American style of living.

889
00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:29,039
People in Indonesia, where it's even poor, of course they're

890
00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:31,360
going to work for lower and that means the factories

891
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,880
are going to go overseas, and that hurts you. The

892
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,559
way we solve this problem is by cracking down on

893
00:43:36,639 --> 00:43:42,519
immigration illegally, reducing legal immigration so that we have a

894
00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:45,480
tighter labor market so that you can get the higher

895
00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:49,480
paying jobs that Americans want. And we reduce foreign trade

896
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,760
so that we don't have foreigners undercutting us. And tariffs

897
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,239
are a way to do that. Is that if you

898
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,920
put in a tariff, what happens is somebody wants to

899
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,800
outsource jobs. Great, if you want to satisfy the economics community,

900
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,039
you can call them pagoovi and taxes on externalities. You know,

901
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,679
is that the externality is social decline and growing social

902
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:18,079
angst because of declining relative living standards in America. And

903
00:44:18,119 --> 00:44:20,320
what that does is it will create an incentive for

904
00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:23,360
people to produce in America. That means we'll move from

905
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,000
an economy based on cheap labor and cheap consumption and

906
00:44:27,079 --> 00:44:31,079
cheap goods that sends money out to other countries, enriches them,

907
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:36,280
and allows places like China to potentially destroy freedom. And

908
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,119
give me a chance. It'll take me more than a

909
00:44:38,199 --> 00:44:42,239
year to turn it around, but we've seen the turnaround before.

910
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,639
Franklin Roosevelt turned the economy around in the Great Depression,

911
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,719
Ronald Reagan turned it around in his administration. I'm going

912
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,119
to do it now. Give me a chance.

913
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: By the way, Henry, I can't believe you mentioned Pegoo

914
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,079
because you know what happened is Trump heard that and

915
00:44:57,119 --> 00:44:59,119
he's giving us mister magoo instead.

916
00:44:59,400 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 4: Come terrass.

917
00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:01,039
Speaker 2: Well, it's all over the place.

918
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I'm going to doubt that he's actually going

919
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:11,320
to put Pagoovian taxes. However, who I know, you know

920
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,000
he understands pagovi and taxes and he can make that argue.

921
00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I'm afraid of Okay.

922
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,119
Speaker 4: So what else should he tell the people. I imagine

923
00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:22,599
that there will be discussion of immigration.

924
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 3: I imagine there might be discussion of foreign policy, and

925
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,199
I'm sure that this is one of the things that

926
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,599
Conservative Crossroads is also going to deal with, because there

927
00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:31,840
does seem to be well.

928
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 5: We've had a discussion on Israel already, we have one

929
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,719
coming up on Ukraine. Depending what happens in Iran, we

930
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,840
might have one in Iran, but I'm planning to do

931
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:47,440
one on NATO, the nature of American alliances, and so forth.

932
00:45:47,519 --> 00:45:50,480
So we will cover many of those topics because they

933
00:45:50,519 --> 00:46:00,480
are actively being debated within conservatism, but broadly, Trump has

934
00:46:00,679 --> 00:46:06,320
and Populism's worldwide thesis is essentially this. We were told

935
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,159
after the fall of the Berlin Wall, that if we

936
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,760
embraced globalization in the economy, we would have a rising

937
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:19,239
real living standard for everybody, that that would lower tensions

938
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,159
in the world by democratizing the world and making them richer,

939
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,880
and that if we push social progressive measures, we will

940
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:31,719
reduce tensions internally by bringing the excluded into the mainstream.

941
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,320
What has happened is all three of these policies have failed.

942
00:46:35,639 --> 00:46:39,679
Globalization has enriched our adversaries and foreign countries at the

943
00:46:39,679 --> 00:46:42,400
expense of the working class throughout the West, and it

944
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:47,960
is deliberately hurt our ability to make things, which I

945
00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:54,480
don't know. Cyber warfare doesn't seem to replace bombs, even

946
00:46:54,519 --> 00:46:57,320
if they're delivered by drones. You have to make things

947
00:46:57,639 --> 00:47:02,719
to protect yourself. They have not democratized the world. Instead,

948
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:07,039
China has used our wealth, our ideas to build the

949
00:47:07,159 --> 00:47:11,599
largest military that an adversary of ours. Their Bluewater Navy

950
00:47:11,679 --> 00:47:14,360
is already more powerful than the Soviet Unions ever was,

951
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,880
and they're building massive numbers of ships each year. And

952
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,760
that's because we gave them the money and the material

953
00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:23,840
and the ideas. Do you think that was a good idea?

954
00:47:24,159 --> 00:47:28,000
Progressive social values, some of them have worked to lower tensions.

955
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:30,639
On the other hand, the speed and the degree and

956
00:47:30,679 --> 00:47:35,280
the anti West, anti westernism that is on display with

957
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,679
so many of these advocates has actually dramatically increased social tensions.

958
00:47:40,519 --> 00:47:43,400
So what you've got is a catastrophic failure. And if

959
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,320
I were Donald Trump, I would make that case and

960
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,440
tie all of my things together under the rubric of

961
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:55,199
I'm here to replace the failed system that has hurt

962
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:00,320
us economically hurt us socially and threatened our freedom. Only

963
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:03,199
you wanted to change. I'm giving you change, give me

964
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:04,800
the chance. That's how I would do it.

965
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,559
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes you just miss the old days of

966
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:10,440
the end of history. But now the end of history

967
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,079
seems to be like a Warner Brothers logo. And then

968
00:48:13,159 --> 00:48:15,320
Donald Trump bursts in like porky big at the end

969
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,199
of it and waves his hand across the screen. But

970
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,400
he's not saying that's all, and he's saying something else

971
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,039
is about to begin, and we'll see what it is,

972
00:48:21,079 --> 00:48:24,480
and we'll hear what it is. On Conservative Crossroads Henryelsen. Henry,

973
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,079
thanks great as ever, lots of fun. Didn't even get

974
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:28,840
to talk about Europe, but that'll be the next time

975
00:48:29,199 --> 00:48:33,280
everybody listen to Conservative Crossroads here in the Ricochet Audio Network. Henry,

976
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,440
have a great day, great weekend, et cetera, and we'll

977
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:36,000
talk to you later.

978
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 5: Same to you too. Thank you for having me back.

979
00:48:38,159 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 4: Always a pleasure.

980
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 3: Well before we go, dang, I hate to do it

981
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,159
to just hate to do it, but friend of the

982
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:51,360
show and a friend of the site, John Ecdall died

983
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,920
And if you're hanging around on conservative Twitter, you've probably

984
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,000
found that, and if you were following Charles C. W. Cook,

985
00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:01,320
who usually is here, you will have noted that he

986
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,079
mentioned that that. As a matter of fact, he tweeted

987
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:06,800
at the time that John was his best friend and

988
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,519
he died of cancer at forty seven, so he has

989
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:14,519
a long ex post about this is very Charles. Of course,

990
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,519
the fellow would have spoke English accents talking about Florida

991
00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:22,360
and football, which I love, and he said during the pandemic,

992
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:23,679
and I'm not.

993
00:49:23,599 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 4: Going to do this in Charlie's voice.

994
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 3: During the pandemic, John and I started a business together that,

995
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,800
relative to our expectations, did pretty well for a while.

996
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,119
As is typical, most of our ideas didn't pan out,

997
00:49:33,199 --> 00:49:35,559
but that didn't matter. We had fun coming up with

998
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:37,679
them at the bar, adding just one more drink to

999
00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:39,159
the tab to make sure that we hadn't missed an

1000
00:49:39,159 --> 00:49:41,599
angle or forgotten to write something down crucial in the

1001
00:49:41,599 --> 00:49:43,159
back of an increasingly ragged napkin.

1002
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 4: I'm forty one years old, and with the.

1003
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 3: Exception of my wife, I've never met anyone who's easier

1004
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,639
to talk to than John. If we went for lunch,

1005
00:49:49,679 --> 00:49:52,480
we'd go for hours chatting about sports and roller coasters

1006
00:49:52,519 --> 00:49:54,760
and with kids in the new iPhone. And the unforgivable

1007
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,079
changes is he made epcoc and EPCOP ninety nine. I

1008
00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:02,079
shall miss that immensely. The last time I saw him,

1009
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,199
I said the same thing I said every time I

1010
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,760
chatted with him over the last eleven years. Talk to

1011
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:15,199
you in a bit, So that's bad, and said, yeah,

1012
00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:18,679
and his memory be a blessing, as they say. Of

1013
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,199
course you might want to talk about on his most

1014
00:50:21,199 --> 00:50:24,199
triggering tweets, which was a masterclass in trolling.

1015
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I followed.

1016
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:29,159
Speaker 1: Him, I never knew him, interacted with him, but most

1017
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,840
famous one, I think it's like a decade ago. And

1018
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,159
he pointed out that what was the Ford F one

1019
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,280
fifty and you know, the GM equivalent the best selling

1020
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,239
cars in America?

1021
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 2: Buy a lot.

1022
00:50:40,159 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 1: And then the question was how many people in the

1023
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,920
Washington Post or New York Times newsrooms know anyone who

1024
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,920
drives a pickup truck? You would have thought somebody had

1025
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,119
thrown a dead mouse in the middle of the newsrooms.

1026
00:50:51,159 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 2: It was outrageous to ask the kind of question.

1027
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: I mean that the parallel question that's even older, is

1028
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,039
how many of you know an evangelical Christian in the

1029
00:50:58,119 --> 00:51:02,320
Washington Post newsroom, right, same outrage. Why just the impertinence

1030
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,920
of asking such a question. Uh, But I do think, James,

1031
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,000
we ought to add that Charlie has set up a

1032
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,119
gofund me account for John's family. Uh, and it's on

1033
00:51:12,159 --> 00:51:13,840
his tweet. I don't have it handy. Maybe we can

1034
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:15,599
put it in the show notes or something. But that

1035
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:18,159
would be if people are so inclined and able. I

1036
00:51:18,159 --> 00:51:20,880
think that would be a nice gesture for Charlie and

1037
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:25,199
John's family. You know, it's uh, I I don't know

1038
00:51:25,199 --> 00:51:27,760
about you, James, It's it's hard for I think it's

1039
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,800
hard for guys in middle aged to lose their best

1040
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,440
friend because it happened to me ten years ago. And

1041
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,880
you know, it's a shock, it's a surprise. You can't

1042
00:51:36,119 --> 00:51:40,320
believe that a healthy person's uh suddenly goes downhill in

1043
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,519
a hurry. And anyway, it's just, you know, it's a

1044
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,519
I don't know. We're not very good at that. I

1045
00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:49,880
think I'll speak from no anyway, Yeah, no, no, no,

1046
00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:53,840
we're not. One of the things I learned though, when

1047
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,760
I was just sort of googling around and you know,

1048
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,760
assembling some stuff about John that I didn't know. I

1049
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,360
never met him, I knew him, but then he he

1050
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,400
was involved in in the co founder and the web

1051
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,199
designer for a site called uni Watch, which is basically

1052
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,800
about uniforms, which is about sports uniforms and charting the

1053
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,199
minute derivations and changes and the.

1054
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 3: Rest of it, which is what the Internet is for. Frankly,

1055
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,239
that's just basically what it's for. Yes, it's a massive

1056
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,400
disinformation machine. Yes, it's a massive dark thing with tor browsers,

1057
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,840
probably run by the CIA to coax people to get

1058
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,360
defended from Thailand.

1059
00:52:26,679 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1060
00:52:27,079 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all sorts of awful things, but at its heart,

1061
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:31,599
it is a mechanism by which people can find each

1062
00:52:31,639 --> 00:52:34,320
other and share things and dive into the things that

1063
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:35,840
they love with at the level of detail in the

1064
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,199
community that you just didn't really get to fined before

1065
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:41,360
the Internet. And John was good at it on the

1066
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,320
technical side and the human side as well.

1067
00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: So I hope Charlie or somebody can keep up uni Watch,

1068
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,280
only because we still have not yet been able to

1069
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,159
prevent the Seattle Seahawks from those dreadful lime green uniforms

1070
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:54,400
that you wear from time to time.

1071
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: Oh don't time don't don't you know, you know, and

1072
00:52:58,039 --> 00:53:00,719
also the strange topography sometimes that you see Sam Darnold.

1073
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 6: As a matter of fact, when he was a Minnesota Viking,

1074
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:03,320
for some.

1075
00:53:03,199 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 3: Reason, we would look at the back of his jersey

1076
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:07,599
and it would look that the D was actually sort

1077
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:09,599
of more like an O. And so he became to

1078
00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:12,760
us amongst my friends, Sam Darnallo, which sounded like some

1079
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,480
great stage musician, magician, and we would call it the

1080
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:16,760
Great to Darnallo.

1081
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,599
Speaker 4: Whenever he came. And you do that in public and

1082
00:53:18,639 --> 00:53:20,280
people look at you like you're an absolute idiot.

1083
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:21,280
Speaker 6: What do you mean, Darnallo?

1084
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,519
Speaker 4: It's darnay never mind, never mind. It is a uniform thing. Hey, folks,

1085
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,800
you should go to Apple. You should over the podcast

1086
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:30,800
thing and give us five stars.

1087
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 3: You should probably be happy with the with the volume

1088
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:36,880
A level on this one, because I presume that that's

1089
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,960
been fixed and the ads have been coming in and plasted.

1090
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 4: Your ears off, and that everything is fine.

1091
00:53:41,199 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 3: You should go to Ricochet itself and sign up if

1092
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,000
you haven't, because when you say sign up, great, give

1093
00:53:47,039 --> 00:53:49,280
him an email, get lots of junk. Well that's just

1094
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:50,639
what I want. No, we want you to go there

1095
00:53:50,639 --> 00:53:53,800
and give it money. It's just a little. It's just

1096
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,079
a little, but that's what enables you to access the

1097
00:53:56,079 --> 00:53:58,280
member feet, and that's what enables you to call.

1098
00:53:58,159 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 4: Him to write comments. I mean, if you've been to

1099
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,360
these other sites with a discus.

1100
00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 3: And I got discus on my sight, I got some

1101
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,480
really good commentators. But every once in a while I

1102
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,480
got to step in and just give somebody the eighty six.

1103
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,159
There's some sites that I love. I absolutely love the sites.

1104
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,480
Never do I go to the comments because it's such,

1105
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:15,360
it's just vile.

1106
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:16,679
Speaker 4: So, yeah, you.

1107
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 3: Got skin of the game. As founder brother Rob Long

1108
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:21,920
once said, is he a father?

1109
00:54:22,639 --> 00:54:23,159
Speaker 4: Is he a past?

1110
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:23,559
Speaker 1: Yet?

1111
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,159
Speaker 3: We don't know what reason is Ecclesiastical Journey's skin of

1112
00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:29,559
the game, which means that everybody has to subscribe to

1113
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:31,800
a code of conduct, and that keeps things interesting, it

1114
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,920
really does. I mean, it's sort of like the old

1115
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,199
days when you wore a tie and a suit down

1116
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,920
on the airplane. Everybody sort of likes those old days.

1117
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,760
Well that's what Ricochet is like in the member side.

1118
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,519
It's like wearing a sit. I shouldn't say that. That

1119
00:54:43,519 --> 00:54:45,480
sounds uncomfortable, you know.

1120
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 4: What I mean.

1121
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,639
Speaker 6: It's where adults behave, and now.

1122
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:50,679
Speaker 4: We are done.

1123
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 3: We'll see everybody in the comments at Ricochet four point zero,

1124
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:54,519
Bye bye.

1125
00:54:56,679 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 4: Ricochet joined the conversation