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Speaker 1: Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,

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an idea.

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Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through.

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Speaker 1: The rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If

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I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth,

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not because.

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Speaker 3: I put my hand on a book and made a.

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Speaker 1: Wish and working together for a more rational world.

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Speaker 4: Take the risk of thinking, feel so much more happiness.

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Truth Usian wisdom will come to you that way.

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Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the

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Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.

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Speaker 4: Well. We all knew that Venezuela was on Trump's literal radar.

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Call me naive. I did not have US bombs Venezuela

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and abduct's president Maduro and his wife to stand twil

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and American courts while Trump goes after land and oil

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on the global stage. I did not have that on

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my twenty twenty six BINGO card, at least for January. Now,

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of course, I'm not a foreign policy expert. Most of

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us aren't, but I think we do know this. Whatever's

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going on, no matter how awful President Madeiro has ever been,

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and we know he's been awful if he needed to

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be removed and prosecuted for the heinous deeds that he

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has done. Donald Trump is not doing what he is

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doing for the benefit of Venezuelans. This is not a

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human rights campaign. I got a friend or an associate

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rather from Venezuela living in the United States, and she

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was all over Facebook and cheering Madeiro was gone. He

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has caused so much suffering. He's out of there. That's

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what's important. He needed to be removed. And it was

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a very emotional day for her.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: I don't know where she falls in terms of Trump,

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but her focus was on the fact that a tyrants

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and a corrupt drug smuggling piece of garbage was gone.

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He was out of there, and she was glad. And

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she actually admitted, you know, if the motive is oil, ah, fine,

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I don't care. Whatever it takes to get the guy gone.

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That's what I want. And I'm sitting here thinking, how

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can motive not matter? How can the strategies not matter,

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How can the legalities not matter? Where is the consideration?

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Donald Trump has been salivating over this idea. He loves conquest.

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He wants to go in, he wants to take land

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and resources for himself, because that's what history's badasses have done.

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I mean, he wants to annex Canada and Greenland. Why

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history's most powerful figures usually horrible figures. They were conquerors.

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They just went in and took what they wanted. How

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many kings and dictators and tyrants pointed to another part

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of the world and said mine, right mine, that's mine.

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And for those who might think this is not about

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oil and conquest, Katie Miller, the wife of Homeland Security

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Director Stephen Miller, just posted online a map image of Venezuela.

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But it's totally stamped over with the red, white, and blue,

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the stars and stripes of the American flag from border

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to border. Now our president, the untethered manchild, who only

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knows predation, grievance, and grift. He has activated one of

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the planet's largest military machines and is using it as

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a penis in larger Anybody remember back when Obama was

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president This was October twenty twelve. Trump goes online and

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he tweets these words he said quote. Now that Obama's

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poll numbers are in a tailspin, watch for him to

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launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate.

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That tweet aged well, Trump's approval ratings right now are

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in the thirties, like among the lowest of any president

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in history, and in the thirties. Right after his November victory,

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this last presidential victory for term number two, Donald Trump

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said from the podium these words. He said, I'm not

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going to start wars. I'm going to stop wars. By

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the way, Donald Trump said over thirty times publicly that

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he would end the Ukraine War on day one. How

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many freaking days has it been? Day one? Ukraine will

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be solved, no problem. So here we are, and Trump

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is saying it out loud. He's saying words like we

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will run Venezuela. The thinking is he'll do it until

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there is a proper transition, which I think means that

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despite the fact that Maduro's allies are actually running the government,

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still we're not running the government right now. Trump does

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want to. He wants a puppett or an extension of

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the United States. And of course there's all of that oil.

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Donald Trump says that we, the United States, are going

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to take control of all of Venezuela's oil reserves, placing

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American oil companies in key positions. By the way, oil

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and gas companies they donated four hundred and fifty million

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dollars to get Trump elected in twenty twenty four. How

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can you look at that and not see one hand

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washing the other. And this whole situation is just so kinetic.

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It's evolving or devolving every second. Who knows how much

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will have happened by the time you are listen to

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this monologue. But beyond at all, beyond the geopolitics, anybody,

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anybody with a functioning prefrontal cortex, realizes that the man

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who has turned a part of the planet into his

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own army man's sandbox is so dangerous. He is the

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most immature, adult, impulsive, ignorant, and volatile guy in this hemisphere.

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At least he knows nothing. He's not well read, he

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doesn't understand the world. He doesn't know anything really about anything.

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I mentioned to Greenland Donald Trump wants to take ownership

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of Greenland, and he said, just recently, the United States

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we had boats at Greenland three hundred years ago. Uh,

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the United States didn't exist three hundred years ago. This

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is the same guy, by the way, rememberd he was

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talking about how the American forces were taking over the

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airports during the War of n Dependence. Oh yeah, eighteenth

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century airports.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: This is the guy who was running American military policy.

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He claims he has ended. I think now it's up

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to eight wars. I've ended eight wars in places which

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there's still a lot of conflict. I think sometimes he's

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talking about negotiations, de escalations, truces, partial truces, you know,

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and these things are still in flux. And many of

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these conflicts are still in conflict. I mean we've got Israel, Hamas, Rwanda, Congo, Egypt, Ethiopia, etc.

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The man who is in charge of where the missiles

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are going to be dropped and upon whom is the

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man who keeps boasting that he aced a dementious screening.

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So the guy who was bombing a foreign nation thinks

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he's a genius because he can draw a clock. Oh,

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I swear to you now, who looks at Donald Trump

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and says military genius Commander bone Spurs avoiding the Vietnam

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Draft no fewer than five times five deferments, and for generations,

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nobody in his immediate family has served in any branch

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of the US Armed forces. So how thick do you

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have to be to not see the problem, and yes,

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many things can be true. At the same time, Maduro

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is garbage, his regime garbage. His removal and a better

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replacement is a worthy goal. But he is being removed

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by the same guy who just pardoned the Honduran president

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who had been found guilty of smuggling four hundred tons

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of cocaine into the US. That guy was pardoned by Trump.

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He went scott free. Meanwhile, there are these claims by

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Trump that Venezuela is a major trafficker of cocaine and

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fentanyl to the United States. That is demonstrably not true.

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The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crimes says there's

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no evidence of any significant level of fentanyl being brought

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in from Venezuela. It's primarily brought in from Mexico. Venezuela

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also not one of the primary traffickers of cocaine into

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this country. So when Trump shoots missiles into, you know,

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Venezuelan boats, and he says with no evidence that you know,

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for every boat that goes down, for every three of

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these boat driving smugglers that we killed, twenty five thousand

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American lives are saved. And knowing it is even logistically

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impossible for those boats to have reached our borders. I

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think it was twenty refuelings. It would take for one

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of these boats to even reach us with whatever was

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on board. You see the problem, but MAGA does not

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see the problem. They're just right now on Fox News.

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They're cheering the removal of a Venezuelan dear leader, and

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at the same time they're working to establish Donald Trump

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as America's dear leader. And while you and I are

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pointing and saying, hey, wait, you know, look at this.

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This man just has a desire for conquest. There's the

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gleeful othering of and threatening of anybody who isn't a white, conservative,

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native born Christian Trump lover, especially if you have brown

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skin or born in a foreign nation. The escalations on

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the world stage, major players Russia, China, et cetera, all

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ramping up for who knows what the hell's gonna happen next,

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and Trump cult doesn't know, or they don't care, or

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maybe they just like the idea. You know, it's time

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that we make the world into us. We know that

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human beings are a human for veteran worse, we've always

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been impulsive emotional primates. We can be very reductive in

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our thinking. We're reactionary in terms of who we might

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accept or reject, love or hate, protect or kill what

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we you know, what, we give, what we take. But

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there are still I hope, I think, in fact, I

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know there are still those among us who have reason

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and logic and a beating human heart and can fairly

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assess and address events like this, determining and deciding whether

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it's logical, whether it's moral, whether it's good or bad. Right,

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And those who watch Donald Trump and say, ah, you know,

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I'm glad Maduro's gone. I just don't care. You're essentially saying, hey,

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you know the chimp with the machine gun shooting bullets

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in every direction and hits a bad guy. Hey, we

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should give that chimp more ammunition. That's a problem. This

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is where we are, and the whole thing is just

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another reason that I've on myself in a very very

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cynical place. I may have started a book. The cliche

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goes like this. I just sat down and started typing,

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and before I knew it, that's how this kind of

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thing goes. I was going to make it a social

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media post, and then I thought, well, it'll be a

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substack article. But I just kept typing. I don't know

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what it's going to be. I met about eight thousand

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words and I can't stop. And it is avent, it's

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a vent, and it's I think your work, how you

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express yourself, very much, is a marker for where you

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are in your mind and heart at that time in

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your life. And I am a roller coaster, right I

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go up and down, and I've got my sort of

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middles as well. I've got my days of optimism and

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I've got my day where I think people are fucking stupid.

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Like the species, with a few exceptions, people are idiots,

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and the rest of us get dragged into whatever bad

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shit scenario they decide as a majority that we're going

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to go into. We just were tethered to them. Many

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of us are looking for ways to cut that tether,

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which for some is meant they're getting out of the

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United States because holy shit. And it's not popular among

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many progressive circles to use words like dumb or stupid

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and I don't care, ignorance I get. And there are intelligence,

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super genius people who have believed and done stupid stuff.

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I wrote a whole book called Christianity made me talk

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like an idiot, and I went through example of how

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many people who are not dumb people can be conditioned,

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preconditioned and doctrineded whatever to do and say dumb stuff.

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Dear Lord, we asked that you bless this food, nourish

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it to our bodies, and our bodies to your service.

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That's kind of a stupid thing to say, because of course,

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the nutritional value of what you just blessed has not

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changed one iota. Lord, we asked that while Bob's in

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the hospital, you help the medicine to do its work.

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Help the medicine to heal Bob. Is a stupid thing

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to understand where it comes from. In many ways, those

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who are desperate for hope and have been programmed by

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their faith many times are taught to speak in this way.

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It's a dumb ass prayer. Lord, we asked that you

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help the chemo to cure him. Is a stupid ass

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thing to stand and I stand by it. I stand

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by our age of conspiracy culture. Sometimes you see something

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and you're like, okay, I can I can I get it.

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I understand you can be misled, you can be misguided.

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And then there were other people, and you can spill

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for them, you can spin for them, you can write down,

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you can speak, you can sing to them the craziest,

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most easily refutable, most irredeemably stupid story in the universe,

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and they will just look at you, slobbery and going, oh, yeah,

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that makes perfect sense to me. Stupid, that's just stupid.

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We all know somebody, we all know somebody who they're

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not operating just from ignorance. If they come to a

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fork in the road, and the left says prudence and

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wisdom and a good outcome. Left is the choice that

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you should make. And here's all the reasons why it's obvious.

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The road is wide. Just turn left and you will

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be fine. Oh look, here's right. Right leads a few

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steps to the end of a cliff. At the bottom

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of the cliff, there are poisoned spikes, and then animals

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will come and gnash whatever is left of you. Don't

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go right. And we all know someone who's like, you

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know what, I'm kind of feeling right today, And then

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these people will often drag the rest of us around

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with them, especially in groups of stupid. What do you

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do with people who are as dull as a sack

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of wet mice, and they vote, they raise children, they

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influence the culture. They are de facto ambassadors for this

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country to the rest of the world, and of course

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the rest of the world sees that we've all apparently

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gone crazy. And I was in a conversation recently with

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someone who didn't chastise me, but it was like, what

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do we do with these people?

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Speaker 5: Then?

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Speaker 4: Do we give up on them? How are we going

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to share this world together if we can't continue to

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engage in the hopes that they will one day break

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out of that cocoon and emerge into better ideas. On

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the surface, I understand it, but this is the where

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I'm at as I'm typing away. Trump cult has had

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ten years and don't tell me they're locked in a

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disinformation sila. If your ass is locked onto Fox News

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and that is your only conduit for the world and

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you haven't been able to hear the screeches of grift,

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corruption and cruelty that are coming down from the halls

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of power, that's not my problem. That is your fault.

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So in my mind, in my gut, rather you're either

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too ridiculously thick to figure it out, or you kind

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of like it? What else is there? A great example

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is the No King's protest seven million people. It's estimated

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even more than that, protesting in the streets free expression.

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I was among the protesters in Tulsa. In the wake

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of that October eighteenth, twenty twenty five, global protest, Donald

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Trump posted officially on his site, posted an AI video

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of himself wearing a crown flying a jet dropping shit

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bombs on American protesters. Now, don't tell me MAGA didn't

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know that happened. Don't tell me. And if they didn't know,

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what does that mean? They're not even following Trump on

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truth social I thought you were a true believer. I

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thought you were a real patriot who wanted Trump to win,

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and you knew everything about him. So if you're ignorant,

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you're an idiot. And if you like it, you're a

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bigot and a cruel person and probably still an idiot.

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What do I do with that information? I don't know.

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I've been wrestling with it. You go through the people

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who were intelligent who did really dumb things. Steve Jobs,

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co founder of Apple, No one can tell me that

283
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he wasn't really really intelligent. He died of pancreatic cancer

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far too early because he first decided he was going

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to go treat it with acupuncture and kale. Are you

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shitting me? Isaac Newton used to think you could turn

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lead into gold. Now he wasn't an idiot, but it's

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an idiotic thing. I mean, maybe that was a product

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of his time. Do I give him the ignorance of

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the culture, the fact that he wasn't yet part of

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the knowledge economy, I don't know. I go back and

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forth on that smart people can believe and do dumb stuff,

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But there's a whole other category for people who they

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are as dumb as a box of hair, and they

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are destroying everything around us. And because there's so many

296
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of them, they're a demographic. So I'm pissed. Is it

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a good thing to write when you're pissed? Should you

298
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maybe publish a book when you're pissed? I don't know. Well,

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I regret it if it does eventually go out and

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six months passes and I calm myself down and think,

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oh shit, now it's out in the ether. I was wrong.

302
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What am I going to do? Does it matter? This

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is kind of where I'm out, This is where I'm

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at your calls are next. I'm looking forward to finding

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00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:46,720
out what you want to talk about. Hang on before

306
00:20:46,759 --> 00:20:49,960
I get to the switchboard. The event that's coming up

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00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,799
March seventh and Tulsa with Forrest Falci, got Sick Gibbon

308
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,759
and myself. Tickets are going fast for that sucker. It's

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00:20:56,759 --> 00:20:58,640
going to be a ball. We're doing kind of a

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short formal presentation each of us at the beginning, and

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we're gonna give some stuff away, We're gonna play some games,

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we're gonna have some fun, do a ton of audience participation.

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It's going to be a three hour roller coaster ride

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and we would love to have you there. Tickets are

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00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,720
going fast. Just browse on over to the website Seth

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00:21:16,839 --> 00:21:20,640
Andrews dot com slash Events and you will see it

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00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:27,680
listed right there, Seth Andrews dot com Slash Events. A

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00:21:27,839 --> 00:21:30,960
po piri of calls, I'm sure today. By the way,

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po piri is one of those words that I used

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to mispronounce. I posted recently on Facebook that people who

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read often accumulate a lot of mispronounced words, and it

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00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:44,519
was funny because it made me think, oh, yeah, there

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had been a lot. It's not that I'm a great reader,

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but I thought, well, let me ask the audience kind

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of some of the words that they used to get

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wrong because they read them first in print. Let me

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pull up this, let me pull this up real fast.

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We've got time cast aspersions, exponentially, caveat, minutia, banal, epitome,

329
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Jeff the name Jeff, but not with a J. That's

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a really good one. Fatigue, larynx, hyperbole, camas is it

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camus or camus? C A m what's a camus or camas?

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C A m u S. I don't know what that is.

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Posthumous q q u e u e keene waw macobb

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m A c I b r E m A c

335
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A don't call me m A c A b r

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e self deprecating instead of self depreciating. I've made that mistake.

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Conch albeit or albeit secreted. Oh, there's so many good ones. Anyway.

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That's kind of what I've been doing lately. What would

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00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:05,359
you like to talk about? Wanda is dialing in Wanda?

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Are you there?

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00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:07,319
Speaker 6: Hello?

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00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,839
Speaker 4: Hi? Willam, Mike can what's going on.

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Speaker 2: Home with the flu?

344
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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 6: Thinking about healthcare and problems in healthcare. This is my

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second bout of flu in three weeks, so caught it twice.

347
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Speaker 2: Lucky.

348
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Speaker 4: Mean, I'm so sorry to hear that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I came across you said I thank you. When

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I was listening to you, you said something about supplements.

351
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There's a great video arm supplements on the more Perfect

352
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Union channel. Anybody wants to know the history of that.

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Speaker 7: That's nuts.

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Speaker 6: But yeah, just complaining about the health care industry and

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how convoluted and costly and stupid it is rant all

356
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you want.

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Speaker 4: Natalie and I had this conversation earlier. Her insurance is

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changing this year, so we have to go through all

359
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that and the sign ups and all of that stuff.

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When we were talking about what it's like to live

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in a developed country like the United States, where even

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when you pay hundreds of dollars a month in premiums,

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one major medical event can destroy your life. It's just

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so freaking stupid. And then you see the higher ups

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in major insurance companies, et cetera, who are making millions

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upon millions of dollars, and then you become even more enraged.

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Speaker 6: Right, Oh, absolutely. My mother she died of a heart

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attack at age sixty four, and my father was self employed,

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so she had pretty sketchy healthcare up to almost about

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two years before she passed, and I'm pretty sure if

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she had they had had decent health care, she probably

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would be allowed today. She it was dodgy. She went

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to the doctor when she had to, She didn't go

374
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for regular checkups. She didn't do it even when she

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thought something was going on.

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Speaker 7: She couldn't afford it.

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Speaker 6: Their premiums went up from three hundred dollars a month

378
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,039
nine hundred dollars a month. And that's when they let

379
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:05,720
it go. And they just decided to chance it and

380
00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:08,640
pay out a pocket if they needed to. And they're

381
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,920
in their late fifties and they did this. And my

382
00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:14,920
dad was a veteran. He's you know, he always had

383
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,160
veteran benefits. He was able to do that. And then

384
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,000
we're also Cherokee, so we have, you know, Indian health

385
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services available to us, but my mom wasn't. And so

386
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:27,799
there she is, fifty nine years old, she loses her

387
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whatever little health insurance they had. I don't remember what

388
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,559
it was like now because this was the early two thousands.

389
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She's been gone almost twenty years, but I'm pretty sure

390
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,359
she had a massive heart attack when not and just

391
00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:43,039
went and was gone in like thirty minutes and real.

392
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 4: Fast, if you would. I heard you say Indian healthcare,

393
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,000
and I know several people who have Native American heritage

394
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:52,319
who do benefit. Do you still call it Indian healthcare?

395
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 6: Most people do, because it's kind of that's kind of

396
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,039
the way it's been thought of.

397
00:25:56,599 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 4: Nice. I was just curious if I was saying it

398
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,119
wrong to think of how I've phrased it in the past.

399
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,039
But I think normally when you say Indian, people are like,

400
00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:07,519
are they from India? No, they're Native American, and then

401
00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:10,160
that correction comes in. I'm sure you've heard that one, right.

402
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I'm a Native oke so and I've worked

403
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,559
for Cherokee Nation and so you know, I call it

404
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,240
Cherokee Healthcare services.

405
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,079
Speaker 7: But most people don't.

406
00:26:18,839 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 6: Really recognize that as well as they do Indian healthcare.

407
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 4: So there's been a big thing back and forth between

408
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,319
the Native American tribes in Oklahoma and the governor over

409
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,839
land and sovereignty. Yes, yeah, that's been crazy. I'm not

410
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,400
a fan of Governor Kevin Stitt. Wanda. I'm sure you

411
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:37,920
probably are neither.

412
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 6: Am I. Well, did you hear about you know, because

413
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,200
he claims to be Cherokee. Did you hear the history

414
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:45,519
on that.

415
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 4: No, I did not.

416
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,599
Speaker 6: There is evidence. I read an article about it. There's

417
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,640
a newsletter called Indian Country. So they're trying they claim

418
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,119
to that, I guess, And they did an investigation into it.

419
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,920
And apparently his ancestort his way onto the Dolls rule

420
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,119
and that's how he got his Cherokee heritage.

421
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,799
Speaker 4: Well that's convenient.

422
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, Apparently there was a lot of them that married

423
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,000
Cherokee women or other Native women and then bought their

424
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:15,880
way onto the rules, and so they're able to claim that.

425
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,640
Apparently he just flat out I think I don't even

426
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,400
think they were he married, there was any Native there

427
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,319
at all. He just bought his way onto the rules

428
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,079
so he could get buy and get an allotment. But

429
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,359
that's you know, Oklahoma history, and which is a normally mess.

430
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,759
Speaker 4: The good news for twenty twenty six, Wanda is that

431
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,680
Ryan Walters is no longer our Superintendent of Public Instruction.

432
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:42,720
He has gone away. He's gone. Oh it's just like

433
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:44,160
sweet sweet nectar.

434
00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:51,039
Speaker 6: So it sounds like the Yeah, it sounds like the

435
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,200
new guys trying to undo a lot of what he did.

436
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, the new guy comes in and he just says, no,

437
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,039
we're not doing that. No, we're not doing that. No,

438
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:02,759
I'm scratching that out. This is a bunch of horseshit.

439
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,519
And then Ryan Walters is off in the wings somewhere

440
00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:08,720
and he is having the tantrum of his life. He

441
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:12,480
is just so mad, and I am here for it, Wanda,

442
00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:16,079
I'm here. Let him just simmer in his own juice.

443
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,839
Let him sit over there and bang his fists and

444
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,599
furrow his brow and bitch about the injustice of it.

445
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,319
All that to me gives me. It's a it's just

446
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,079
a little bit of goodness to keep me going into

447
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,079
twenty twenty six. You get some soup and rest and

448
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,000
take care of yourself, okay.

449
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,279
Speaker 2: Will do all right, We'll see you. It'll Pylty in March.

450
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,599
Speaker 4: Well, if you you know, if you need help getting in,

451
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,680
you call me or you email me and I'll take

452
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,720
care of you. Okay, all right, I'll see it. And

453
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:52,680
he called that good deserves special consideration. Darcy is dialing

454
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,160
in from area code six one nine. Darcy, are you

455
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,759
with us? Hi, sir, glad you're here. Let's talk. What's

456
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:01,839
on your mind?

457
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 7: I read this morning the Legacy Media such as CBS, CNN.

458
00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:12,160
Those kinds of folks are changing their tactics on reporting

459
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:16,680
to you know, we all know to acquis to President

460
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:24,079
Trump by not following the elite, the educated experts, relying

461
00:29:24,079 --> 00:29:28,119
more on the common man's point of view. And I'm sorry,

462
00:29:28,759 --> 00:29:31,079
but I don't want to hear from the common man.

463
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,240
I want to hear from the experts. If they're saying

464
00:29:36,279 --> 00:29:40,559
stuff that I don't understand because it's above my understanding.

465
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,079
Speaker 2: Then I'm learning.

466
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 7: I'm not learning from the guy that doesn't have a

467
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,640
high school education, that thinks the world is flat and

468
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,119
all these batchit crazy ideas that are out there. I

469
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,559
want to hear from the experts, and I don't. I

470
00:29:54,839 --> 00:30:00,000
think this trend of trying to follow some common denomination

471
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:05,480
is dangerous and stupid in so many ways. My dad

472
00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:09,519
was a journalist and he's spinning in his grave right now.

473
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 4: CBS News obviously in hot water after at the last

474
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,240
second it yanked, it spiked a sixty minutes report about

475
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:20,000
the atrocities that have been going on with deportations and

476
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:23,720
ice and the prison in El Salvador, and it's horrifying,

477
00:30:23,839 --> 00:30:29,240
right So it's about to go out and at the

478
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,519
last second, the new editor in chief of CBS News

479
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,400
comes in and says, Nope, I don't feel like the

480
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,160
White House has had enough opportunity to be able to

481
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,279
weigh in. Well, the White House was not going to

482
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:43,000
weigh in. I think this is part of the strategy.

483
00:30:43,119 --> 00:30:47,359
So they sit on their hands, and then Barry White says, oh,

484
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,359
I'm just going to pull the plug because we need

485
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,319
to be fair. And the journalists at sixty minutes are saying,

486
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,599
we fact checked everything, we reached out, we went through

487
00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:58,200
all the proper channels, and we did it right, and

488
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,079
they're pissed. Well, the package, including that segment already had

489
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:07,240
gone out to Canada for release and so so in

490
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:11,079
Canada it was sent out and then it went viral

491
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,759
on the internet. So the word leaked is not a

492
00:31:13,799 --> 00:31:16,960
correct term. But we had to we had to rely

493
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:20,400
on Canada to show us a report that was censored

494
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,640
by the head honcho at CBS News. And now they

495
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,880
have a new evening anchor who is promising, Hey, we

496
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,240
aren't going just to listen to the and actually use

497
00:31:30,319 --> 00:31:34,599
the word experts. He said, he said, we're going to,

498
00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:36,920
you know, focus on the people. And I had the

499
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,759
same thought that you had. Do we really want the

500
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,640
tictokification of news? Do we want everybody with an opinion

501
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:48,400
to become that new story? And then what kind of

502
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,000
crazy batshittery in corruption does this new methodology open up

503
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,680
at the highest levels of quote unquote journalism. Most of

504
00:31:57,759 --> 00:32:02,119
American media is owned, I believe by six companies. So

505
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,400
if CBS and let's call it CNN, and the New

506
00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:11,279
York Post and all these other the Washington Post owned

507
00:32:11,279 --> 00:32:14,799
by Jeff Bezos, et cetera. If all the major players

508
00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:18,480
are owned by the brolgarchs, the conspiracy theorists that corrupt

509
00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:20,960
in people with other interest what do the rest of

510
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:23,640
us do go to? Substack? Is that all we have left?

511
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,000
I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on any

512
00:32:26,039 --> 00:32:26,200
of that?

513
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 7: Yeah? Well, one of the things that people don't realize

514
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,599
about journalism. A lot of the people don't realize is

515
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,720
that a journalist, a true journalist, making a report needs

516
00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:41,880
to source their sources and it goes through a process

517
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,400
whereby the editor, which was what my dad's job was,

518
00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:48,440
make sure that they have, you know, more than one

519
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:52,279
source for a particular item or fact or things like that.

520
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,160
And then if they do publish something and they get

521
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,599
it wrong. They publish a retraction or correction saying hey,

522
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,720
we know this particular thing or this was found later

523
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,759
to be untrue, and people think, well, that means that

524
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:11,519
they're dishonest. Well, no, that means they're being honest.

525
00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:12,079
Speaker 2: It's like the.

526
00:33:12,039 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 7: Scientific method, having put out a paper and being peer

527
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,319
reviewed and then having to make corrections afterwards.

528
00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:21,039
Speaker 5: It's part of the processes.

529
00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:23,279
Speaker 7: How we learn and how we report on the facts.

530
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:27,119
And I'm sorry these guys that substack, you know, going

531
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:31,359
to Minnesota and trying to find fraud amongst the Somalias

532
00:33:31,359 --> 00:33:35,720
who are running a daycare haven't gone through that process.

533
00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:36,559
Speaker 2: You know.

534
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 7: They're just clickbait, putting out something with some sketchy video

535
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,720
and saying, oh, look we found fraud. Well no, you

536
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,559
shouldn't find jack. And this is what's being pawned off

537
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:52,039
as journalism or reporting these days, and it's really pretty pathetic.

538
00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:54,319
Speaker 4: Okay for those who don't know what we're talking about.

539
00:33:54,359 --> 00:33:57,039
Real fast on the daycare thing. There's this guy whose

540
00:33:57,119 --> 00:34:02,680
name is Nick Shirley. He is a conservative online influencer.

541
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:06,640
There's your first red flag and he goes viral online.

542
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,840
He's got this video that shows him and a guy

543
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:14,159
pounding on the doors of childcare centers in Somali communities

544
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,480
in Minnesota, and he is ostensibly looking for evidence of

545
00:34:18,599 --> 00:34:22,559
financial fraud, and he says stuff like, we have uncovered

546
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:25,719
over one hundred and ten million dollars of fraud in

547
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,960
one day. And it turns out after the fact that

548
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,800
there were Republican lawmakers that had actually given this guy

549
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,480
a list of centers to target, but that didn't make

550
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,599
any difference. The facts didn't make any difference. By the way,

551
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:45,239
no fraud was ever discovered, No fraud has been discovered.

552
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,119
It's business as usual. All this shit's been debunked. But

553
00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:53,760
of course Newsmax and OAANN and even Fox News and

554
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:59,039
the right wing online culture has run with this and

555
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:02,079
now at official channels. He got Jim O'Neill over at

556
00:35:02,119 --> 00:35:05,760
the Department of Health and Human Services, he's the deputy secretary.

557
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,239
He goes public and he says, ah, the blatant fraud

558
00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:12,760
that appears to be rampant in Minnesota and across the

559
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,760
country will be dealt with. We are going to combat

560
00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:21,480
all of this illegality. And again, at even a cursory glance,

561
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,440
by real investigators. The whole thing is just bullshit. It's

562
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:30,880
absolute crap. It's fiction. But this guy, Nick Shirley is

563
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,000
being treated by many of the right wingers as a

564
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:40,239
legitimate investigative journalist. So that's what we're talking about. I'm

565
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:46,039
reminded of back when Jesse Ventura, the professional wrestler I

566
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:48,719
can't remember. I think this was after he was governor

567
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,639
of Minnesota. He got a television show where he was

568
00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:56,599
supposed to be uncovering a lot of governmental secrets and

569
00:35:56,639 --> 00:36:01,039
he went to some I think a military establish which

570
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,719
was locked up and had security measures and whatever. Jessevan

571
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,320
Toura walks up to a door of the place with

572
00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:13,079
a crew in tow and he demands He's like, we

573
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,639
demand as the people to be able to come in

574
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,440
and see what you're doing in there, and of course

575
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,760
they're not. They're like, get out of here. We're not

576
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,599
going to just let you in your massive security risk.

577
00:36:23,679 --> 00:36:26,159
We don't know what you're doing. There are protocols. And

578
00:36:26,199 --> 00:36:28,639
then he immediately goes back to the lot and he's

579
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,599
like the fact that they didn't allow us in tells

580
00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:34,960
us that there's something seriously wrong going on in the

581
00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:37,800
United States government. And I'm like, no, I think it's

582
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,679
that you didn't get your ass on the schedule. You know,

583
00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:44,679
are there untoward things happening in our government?

584
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:45,039
Speaker 3: Yeah?

585
00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 4: Does the military have secrets, some of them sketchy? Hell? Yes.

586
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,360
Do you simply walk up to Area fifty one and

587
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,440
when you're turned away say this is proof that the

588
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,480
lizard people are here? I think, not, Darcy, that's just me.

589
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,119
Speaker 2: I work for the government.

590
00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 7: One of my jobs was to do inspections. And every

591
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,679
place that I did an inspection, they had a right

592
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,840
to turn me away. They had a right to say no,

593
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:10,960
you're not coming in.

594
00:37:11,079 --> 00:37:12,119
Speaker 2: And I had to get a warrant.

595
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:15,039
Speaker 7: That's just the way things work, checks and balance.

596
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:20,639
Speaker 4: Otherwise, anybody anywhere could claim credentials and be given access

597
00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:23,800
to places where they might endanger others.

598
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,519
Speaker 7: And people would try to impersonate an inspector with some

599
00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:30,320
bogus credentials, and we every once in a while we

600
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,480
hear about. They'd call us and say is this really you, guys,

601
00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:37,199
And we say, uh no, that's you. Don't let that

602
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:37,880
person in.

603
00:37:38,519 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 4: Here's the one thing I'm watching. And I mentioned substack.

604
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,320
It's not just because I published a tiny, tiny, humble

605
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,280
little hole in the Wall article myself from time to time.

606
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,159
But I have seen Heathercox, Richardson and others who are

607
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,280
moving to these freestanding platforms to get the word out,

608
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,000
and many of them are really starting to get noticed.

609
00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:05,199
And I do wonder if the oligarchy driven media machine

610
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,360
is going to, you know, even as people a lot

611
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,280
of people are going off into the disinformation silos. I

612
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,239
do wonder if, like the journalists who were ousted from

613
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,840
the White House briefing room, those types of people are

614
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,480
going to say, fine, if you're going to corporatize everything

615
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,840
and decide that the big billionaires are going to determine

616
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,519
what is news, we're going to be journalists over here.

617
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:32,199
And I do wonder if maybe those grassroots things will

618
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,880
take off and become something else. So I'm going to

619
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,440
be watching independent journalists in that way. We shall see

620
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,000
what happens.

621
00:38:39,039 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 7: Okay, Yeah, I'm following a couple myself, and you know,

622
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,280
I do have to recognize that they don't have the

623
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,800
same editorial oversight that the legacy media has, and so

624
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,960
a lot of what they're saying is opinion. But as

625
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,079
long as it's clear that that's what they're doing, is

626
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:59,920
there these are these folks's opinion, then sure it's fine.

627
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 4: But it isn't that Box and Friends and Sean Hannity

628
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,719
and even Anderson Cooper and Rachel Maddow. I mean, most

629
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,480
of what is being broadcast at the highest levels is

630
00:39:10,519 --> 00:39:11,840
imbued with opinion.

631
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,559
Speaker 7: Don't you think, well, yeah, everybody has a bias. You

632
00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:19,400
can't deny that. You know that you might have a

633
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,880
particular bias. And there's a difference between reporting on facts

634
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,519
and reporting on opinion. And certainly what you report on

635
00:39:27,039 --> 00:39:31,119
might be colored by your biases. Like we're going to

636
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:34,199
cover this story because we think this is important versus

637
00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:36,960
that story. So I mean, that's why it's important to

638
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,079
have a wide curricula of sources that you look at,

639
00:39:41,159 --> 00:39:44,719
that you don't rely on just one type of reporting

640
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,679
or one or one source as a consumer that you

641
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:52,000
were looking at a variety of angles for a particular story.

642
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,719
But I do want to rely on experts. I do

643
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,480
want to rely on people who are experts in their

644
00:39:58,559 --> 00:40:01,000
fields versus man on the street.

645
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,039
Speaker 4: I think that's super smart. With RFK Junior and the

646
00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:07,599
National Institutes of Health and the war on the CDC,

647
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,440
et cetera, there's a war on expertise and a sowing

648
00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:15,119
of distrust of experts and science and scientific processes and

649
00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:20,079
reasonings and findings and facts do matter. So yes, we

650
00:40:20,159 --> 00:40:23,360
want experts. Please call the experts, and enough of this

651
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,960
equal time bullshit. We don't bring somebody in who is

652
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,280
an astrophysicist or a planetary scientist and say, you know what,

653
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,199
we need to give fifty to fifty opportunity to the

654
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,159
guy who thinks the Earth is a disc. You know,

655
00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:40,400
it doesn't work. That's not how equal time works. That's

656
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,760
not how fairness works. And Darcy, you're amazing, and thank

657
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,400
you for calling and being a part of today's conversation.

658
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 7: Thank you day.

659
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:53,039
Speaker 4: You bet we'll see you later. I mean, how do

660
00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:56,880
we get here? This is maybe back to stupid. How

661
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,960
does someone say, you know what, if someone's an expert,

662
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:06,400
I doubt them seriously. Well doubt's fine. We don't let

663
00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:09,119
degree bongerers show up and we're like, well, you've got

664
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:13,199
a PhD or whatever, so therefore you are correct. That's

665
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,320
not how facts work. But we do know that people

666
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,639
who have higher education and experience in many certain fields,

667
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,199
they are largely much more informed. They swim in those waters.

668
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,320
And more importantly even than that, is there are other

669
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,360
experts in that field who are keeping them in check.

670
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,320
How many times does somebody with a fancy degree come

671
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:40,559
forward and they made a crazy Andrew Wakefield kind of claim,

672
00:41:41,199 --> 00:41:45,480
and who swarmed upon them with refutations to whatever study

673
00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:48,480
they published? It was experts in the field. You know,

674
00:41:48,519 --> 00:41:52,199
when you look at doctor Stephen Meyer at the Discovery Institute,

675
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,880
who is an intelligent design proponent, you know where you

676
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,199
don't see that guy. You don't see him in peer

677
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,880
review because if he was to submit any of these

678
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,159
bullshit papers, everybody's like, well, this is not scientific. Our

679
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,480
peers have reviewed your work and it's a big steamy

680
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,480
pile of horseshit. That's how it works. So we don't

681
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,800
argue from authority. We don't argue because somebody's got a

682
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,639
specific degree or a pedigree, But we do say there

683
00:42:22,679 --> 00:42:25,679
are experts in fields, and there are other experts who

684
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,840
keep them in check, and then they provide a way

685
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,360
for you and I on more of a civilian level

686
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,760
to participate in science in a way in which we

687
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:39,599
can digest. It is imperfect, but that's how we roll. Mean, really,

688
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:45,840
is Steven Meyer, are you shitting me, Michael bhe PhD

689
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:53,719
really demski PhD No, No, And it's scientists, experts that

690
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,360
have kept them in check. But I want the experts

691
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,760
involved first. I don't want somebody at freedom dot Eagle

692
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,519
dot net who has been reading some Reddit shit poster

693
00:43:06,679 --> 00:43:10,679
about the latest Q drop conspiracy telling me that that's

694
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,760
news and the world needs to know about it. That's

695
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,320
common people reporting right now, and I want there. I

696
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:22,280
don't want there. Let's not do that. So many more

697
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:32,960
calls to come stand by here in the new year.

698
00:43:33,039 --> 00:43:35,639
If you would like to support the show by becoming

699
00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:40,320
a patron, your support is so appreciated. Patreon dot com,

700
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:48,119
slash Seth Andrews David, Thanks for your patients, David, and welcome.

701
00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:48,599
Are you there.

702
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 8: I wanted to know if you have seen it all

703
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,519
on YouTube. Christopher Hitchens resurrected.

704
00:43:57,199 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 4: Christopher Hitchens resurrected what's.

705
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 8: That obviously AI and so it's kind of an AI

706
00:44:05,519 --> 00:44:10,280
animation of Christopher Hitchens in Heaven of All Places, sitting

707
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,480
in an easy chair with a little table next to

708
00:44:13,519 --> 00:44:16,599
it with Crown Royal. I think he's got a glass

709
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:20,440
of that, but the clouds are floating by but he'll,

710
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:26,639
I say he, Ai, he will expound and brilliantly and

711
00:44:26,679 --> 00:44:32,000
in the voice and in the vocabulary of Christopher Hitchens.

712
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,639
I keep telling myself, obviously this is not him, but

713
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,320
this is pretty damn good Ai. Whoever created it, and

714
00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:42,760
the commentary is spot on.

715
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:44,559
Speaker 5: You would appreciate.

716
00:44:44,039 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 8: It because he takes out after not only Trump but

717
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:53,000
his minions and the frauds and phonies that are polluting

718
00:44:53,079 --> 00:44:57,079
now our national political scene. And it really is entertaining.

719
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,159
Christopher Hitchins resurrected.

720
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,599
Speaker 4: All right, Well, I'm not opposed to stopping by and

721
00:45:03,679 --> 00:45:06,840
taking a look, so thanks for letting me know about it.

722
00:45:06,519 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 8: It's usually an eight to twelve minute thing, and it's

723
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,760
pretty entertaining, and in small bites like your short videos

724
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,920
on YouTube, and always leave and leaves me asking for more.

725
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,840
I've got two of your books on my shelf and

726
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,639
I'm a big fan. Like I say, I hope to

727
00:45:23,679 --> 00:45:24,920
see you live sometime.

728
00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:28,199
Speaker 5: Well, honored David, I am getting up there, but I

729
00:45:28,199 --> 00:45:29,960
hope I got a few more years.

730
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 4: Well me too, And if we ever in the same

731
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,559
zip code, I hope I get to shake your hand.

732
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, maybe I will.

733
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,159
Speaker 8: I don't know if i'll sing to you, maybe I'll

734
00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:43,599
recite to you what I've done to this song, America

735
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:48,039
the Beautiful, written by Catherine Lee Bates in eighteen ninety five.

736
00:45:48,119 --> 00:45:50,960
You know the song Oh Beautiful for spacious guys. I

737
00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:54,599
do oh Beautiful for spatious guys, for amber waves of grain.

738
00:45:54,679 --> 00:45:57,559
I won't read that version or even try to sing it,

739
00:45:58,159 --> 00:46:01,159
but I had to alter a little bit. Do we

740
00:46:01,199 --> 00:46:04,000
have time for me to go through the two verses?

741
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:05,519
Speaker 4: If you have two verses?

742
00:46:05,639 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, all right.

743
00:46:07,519 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 8: It was once America the Beautiful, Now America the lamentable,

744
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:16,800
Oh pitiful, for shameless lies, for maga waves of pain,

745
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:23,880
for lawless, hateful tyrannies. Above all, power gain America America.

746
00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:29,239
Trump shed's disgrace on the his fascist strain, no longer

747
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,800
staying our proud democracy. 'tis noble to resist a king

748
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:40,079
and heed our founder's words that we the people rightly reign,

749
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:49,840
not autocratic turds. America America, reclaim your honored name with liberty, equality,

750
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,800
stand once again in fame.

751
00:46:54,119 --> 00:46:57,079
Speaker 4: And the crowd applaud you, David. Thanks so much for

752
00:46:57,119 --> 00:46:59,000
the call. Be safe out there, Okay.

753
00:46:59,199 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 5: Yes, sir. A pleasure to talk to you, thank you.

754
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 4: Thank you. We'll see you, Okay. So I'm gonna have

755
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,039
to weigh in on this AI and Christopher Hitchins thing.

756
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:17,599
I think it's sorry, David. I think it's immoral. I

757
00:47:17,679 --> 00:47:23,239
don't want to hear a synthetic approximation of what AI

758
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:27,519
thinks or Clay doesn't think, but decides in that way,

759
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:30,760
for lack of a better word, Christopher Hitchens would say

760
00:47:31,199 --> 00:47:36,199
about the current climate. Because unless Christopher Hitchins, who drew

761
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,760
breath and his mind was absolutely brilliant and brilliantly unique,

762
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,280
unless he says it, there's no way to attach any

763
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,599
real meaning to the words that comes out of AI's mouth.

764
00:47:48,679 --> 00:47:52,400
That's a problem. Secondly, I don't want a fake hitch

765
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,079
I don't want a fake I don't want to watch

766
00:47:56,119 --> 00:48:00,000
something that takes me into a place where it feels

767
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,920
like him, especially when there is so much actual hitch

768
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:08,320
that has been written and posted and the videos I

769
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,960
pull up Hitchins debates and speeches on YouTube all the time.

770
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:18,480
He is decades worth of work that's still relevant today. Thirdly,

771
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,400
I think, how would I feel if, whether I'm alive

772
00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:27,039
or dead, somewhere AI took my face and my voice

773
00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:30,760
and had me saying things that I didn't actually say,

774
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,840
expressing thoughts, opinions, ideas, claims, etc. That I may or

775
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,000
may not have actually held for myself. And how would

776
00:48:39,039 --> 00:48:41,440
someone else know the difference? I think it blurs the

777
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,239
line between the real and the fake. I don't think

778
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,639
Christopher Hitchins would have agreed to have his likeness, his voice,

779
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:56,320
his representation, his person used in this way. Anyone, anywhere,

780
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:01,519
for any reason, is at risk of being duplicated. We're

781
00:49:01,519 --> 00:49:06,400
seeing a version of these in Hollywood. You know, actors

782
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,760
and actresses are banding together to say we need legal

783
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,920
protection because what prevents a filmmaker from saying, you know what,

784
00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:21,320
I can't afford to pay Scarlet Johanson fifteen to twenty

785
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,159
million dollars, but I share with like Scarlett Johansen to

786
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:30,400
star in this movie. Let's just generate a Scarlet Johansson

787
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,960
and it'll look like her, and it'll sound like her,

788
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,599
and it'll move like her. Nah, that is not what

789
00:49:36,639 --> 00:49:40,480
I want AI to do for us. I don't want

790
00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:45,239
AI to replace the creators, you know, the artists and

791
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,800
the thinkers and the writers and the doers, the human

792
00:49:49,039 --> 00:49:52,400
element of being human. I don't want AI doing that,

793
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,880
and I don't want it confusing everybody else. I think

794
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,719
AI should help to make people's lives better and to

795
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,920
help make the work of creators somewhat easier when possible

796
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:12,280
or appropriate. So I can't support an AI Hitchins. And

797
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,480
in my own heart, I don't want an Ai Hitchins.

798
00:50:14,519 --> 00:50:17,679
I want the real guy. I miss Christopher Hitchins, his

799
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:23,679
unique voice, his unique person, his attitude, his intelligence, his

800
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,960
amazing encyclopedic recall, his sense of humor. Who he was

801
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:30,760
is a person, which I don't think a machine is.

802
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,440
Just it doesn't do it for me. And there are

803
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,199
some who are going to say, well, you're just a

804
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,639
you're past your prime, you're a luddee. It's going to

805
00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:45,159
happen anyway, so embrace it. Do I need to embrace it?

806
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,920
Some people say there's an AI bubble that's about to burst.

807
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,519
A shit ton of people with billions of dollars have

808
00:50:51,639 --> 00:50:55,840
invested in what many are considering to be an unsustainable proposition.

809
00:50:56,159 --> 00:50:59,519
At this level, they're not making the money back, so

810
00:50:59,559 --> 00:51:03,239
they're saying there's going to be a big crash. There

811
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,079
are again those conversations about energy usage and I'm sick

812
00:51:07,119 --> 00:51:11,719
and tired of freaking every platform on the planet asking

813
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,920
me if I want to AI this, and I go

814
00:51:15,039 --> 00:51:18,760
to Google. I don't want the AI answer. That place

815
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,039
is a muck who knows what you're getting back. I

816
00:51:23,159 --> 00:51:27,760
want actual sourcing for the questions that I am asking,

817
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,079
and I want sources that check those sources. I'm not

818
00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:33,639
going to look at it in chat GPT and take

819
00:51:33,679 --> 00:51:37,360
that as gospel. Pardon the expression. That's not how research

820
00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:42,960
is done. I pulled up the streaming software today. Fine,

821
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,760
thank you for the streaming software. This allows us all

822
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,719
to connect. First thing it wants to do. Would you

823
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,880
like AI to approximate this or to change that? Would

824
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,599
you like to duplicate your voice? You're shitting me. You

825
00:51:57,639 --> 00:52:01,599
know what if I produce anything in audio or video form.

826
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,199
In fact, I'm thinking about putting an action whatever book

827
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,239
comes out of me next, if ever, it's going to

828
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,599
start with none of this was written by AI. None

829
00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:15,000
of it was edited by AI. The audiobook will not

830
00:52:15,079 --> 00:52:18,159
be voiced by AI. Why the fuck what? I want

831
00:52:18,159 --> 00:52:22,280
a machine to articulate what I want to say. I

832
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,760
know what the words are, I know what the intent is,

833
00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:27,320
I know how I want to say it. Why would

834
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,360
I give that up so AI could sound like me? None, No, No,

835
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:35,639
I do know I'm not doing that. Didn't mean to

836
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:41,159
go off on that tangent. This is a conversation. You're

837
00:52:41,199 --> 00:52:44,199
listening to a podcast. Do you really want a synthetic

838
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,159
seth Andrews saying whatever? So that you're like, well, I

839
00:52:47,199 --> 00:52:50,559
wonder if that's what he really thinks. It sounds like

840
00:52:50,639 --> 00:52:53,159
something he would think. You know, it sure does sound

841
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,840
like him. In fact, it sounds exactly like him. How

842
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,000
would we know if it wasn't him? Do I want

843
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,880
to live in that world? I wouldn't want that with you.

844
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,599
I want the flesh and blood you. I want the

845
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,800
human you, the three dimensional you. That's what I want. Sorry, David,

846
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,840
I just totally I wasn't trying to kick you in

847
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,840
the teeth because I would be curious to see how

848
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:18,239
close the Hitchens channel gets. But I can pretty much,

849
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:25,079
Garran damn to you, Christopher Hitchins would not want that. Huh,

850
00:53:25,159 --> 00:53:29,480
Philip is dialing in? Philip? Are humans stillwater? Oklahoma? Is

851
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:30,199
that what I'm reading?

852
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 3: Yes, I am.

853
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 5: I've been here now for six months.

854
00:53:35,119 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 4: Still Water's really changed, Not that anybody really cares, but

855
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,360
it used to be you know, of course it's a

856
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,559
college town with Oklahoma State University, but boy, that place

857
00:53:43,639 --> 00:53:46,039
is boomed. There's a ton of stuff in still Water

858
00:53:46,119 --> 00:53:46,880
these days.

859
00:53:47,199 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I've moved here to go to OSU.

860
00:53:51,519 --> 00:53:53,079
But a lot of the people who have lived your

861
00:53:53,079 --> 00:53:56,199
older lives have told me how much it has changes.

862
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,519
Speaker 4: Like, really, where did you move here from.

863
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,679
Speaker 3: Gallatinton See, which is north of Nashville.

864
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 4: Okay, sir, you're you're used to the Trump flags. You're

865
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,320
used to being in Maga Land, is there?

866
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 3: I get that. Yeah, okay, yeah, but they're an overdrop

867
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,360
over there because they have the Trump superstores. I passed

868
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,800
one on my ways from Delaware to Austin.

869
00:54:19,199 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 4: What's it Trump's superstore? What is that?

870
00:54:23,079 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 3: I don't know. I've only heard about him on the internet.

871
00:54:26,519 --> 00:54:28,119
Is a place where you just buy a whole bunch

872
00:54:28,159 --> 00:54:31,519
of Trump merchandise, like Trump flags and bumper stickers, and

873
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,360
I guess you buy a figurine or a barboard cutout

874
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,360
of Donald Trump. They go nuts about Donald Trump.

875
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 4: People in the chatter like the OSU is not the

876
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:47,480
ou that has been the subject of national controversy, And yes,

877
00:54:47,679 --> 00:54:50,800
you're correct, that where he's talking about Oklahoma State, not OU,

878
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,000
and I will talk about the OU controversy after this call.

879
00:54:54,559 --> 00:54:57,239
The quality of the actual education and the culture that

880
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,320
surrounds you in the state of Oklahoma. Maybe too different conversations.

881
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,880
I'm just glad you're not at Oh you, Philip. I

882
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,360
do appreciate your call. I wish you the best with college,

883
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,480
and I'm going to move on to the next callege.

884
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, well, thank you very much for having me on.

885
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,599
Speaker 4: Appreciate it. All right, since we're talking about it, let

886
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:19,559
me give you the details on this Oklahoma University controversy.

887
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:23,280
It's just such a great representation of where we are

888
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,079
today as a culture, especially in Oklahoma, which is currently

889
00:55:27,159 --> 00:55:32,639
ranked fiftieth fiftieth out of fifty in education in the

890
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,960
United States. So the short version goes like this, There's

891
00:55:36,039 --> 00:55:40,000
a psychology class that is taught by a transgender OU

892
00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:44,880
graduate instructor named mel Kirth, and the students in this

893
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:49,119
psychology class were asked to write their own essay commenting

894
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,280
on a paper that came out in twenty thirteen. The

895
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:58,039
paper was not about transgenderism. It was about bullying in

896
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,599
middle schools. The research based article was titled relations among

897
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:09,679
gender typicality, peer relations and mental health during early adolescence. Well,

898
00:56:10,119 --> 00:56:14,639
Samantha full Necki turned something in that was so unbelievably

899
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:20,400
jaw droppingly bad that she was given a zero. I

900
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,400
mean not that she got zero. F you have failed.

901
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,480
And before mel Kirth gave out the failing grade, mel

902
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:33,000
let another instructor or graduate instructor review it just to

903
00:56:33,079 --> 00:56:35,719
check and make sure, and they were like, oh, hell yeah,

904
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,880
this is absolutely horrible. Zero. Now this is a psychology

905
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,639
student in Oklahoma. Let me read you just a little

906
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:49,039
bit of what Samantha Fullnecki turned into. The teacher quote.

907
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,719
This article was very thought provoking and caused me to

908
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,119
thoroughly evaluate the idea of gender and the role it

909
00:56:56,199 --> 00:57:01,039
plays in our society. The article discussed peers using teasing

910
00:57:01,119 --> 00:57:04,559
as a way to enforce gender norms. I do not

911
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:09,400
necessarily see this as a problem. God made male and

912
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,440
female and made us differently from each other on purpose

913
00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:17,480
and for a purpose. God is very intentional with what

914
00:57:17,639 --> 00:57:21,360
he makes, and I believe trying to change that would

915
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:25,159
only do more harm. Gender roles and tendency should not

916
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:30,280
be considered stereotypes. Women naturally want to do womanly things

917
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:34,840
because God created us with those womanly desires in our arts.

918
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:38,599
The same goes for men. God created men in the

919
00:57:38,679 --> 00:57:42,960
image of his courage and strength, and he created women

920
00:57:43,119 --> 00:57:47,719
in the image of his beauty. He intentionally created women

921
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,280
differently than men, and we should live our lives with

922
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,880
that in mind. And then Samantha goes on and on

923
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,280
about what she thinks and how she feels, and what

924
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,800
her interpretation of the Bible is and what yahweh. She

925
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,039
doesn't say yahweh, but the biblical God right. And then

926
00:58:04,079 --> 00:58:06,559
she says this, I do not think men and women

927
00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:10,559
are pressured to be more masculine or feminine. I strongly

928
00:58:10,599 --> 00:58:14,079
disagree with the idea from the article that encouraging acceptance

929
00:58:14,199 --> 00:58:19,719
of diverse gender expressions could improve student's confidence society. Pushing

930
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,159
the lie that there are multiple genders and everyone should

931
00:58:23,159 --> 00:58:28,199
be whatever they want to be is demonic and severely

932
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:33,320
harms American youth. The final line says this, I live

933
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:37,320
my life based on this truth and firmly believe that

934
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:41,199
there would be less gender issues and insecurities and children.

935
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,079
By the way, that should be fewer gender issues and

936
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:47,119
insecurities and children if they were raised knowing that they

937
00:58:47,199 --> 00:58:52,119
do not belong to themselves, but they belong to the Lord.

938
00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:54,320
You see what I'm talking about. And the paper itself

939
00:58:54,400 --> 00:59:00,519
is luded with grammatical errors, sentence structure errors, reasoning errors,

940
00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:05,960
and just freaking punctuation errors. F you have failed, Samantha

941
00:59:06,159 --> 00:59:11,400
then apparently contacts the governor's office, which is of course

942
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,159
the first thing you do when you fail at college

943
00:59:14,199 --> 00:59:18,559
paper you contact the government. And now she's being paraded

944
00:59:18,599 --> 00:59:22,199
around to some sort of religious liberty martyr and the

945
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:28,960
instructor has filed litigation to be reinstated after being fired

946
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,800
by OU. That's right. Somebody fails a test, this state

947
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:40,800
punishes the instructor. This is where we are. Let's do

948
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:43,239
two to one zero.

949
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 3: Hi.

950
00:59:44,079 --> 00:59:44,719
Speaker 4: What's your name?

951
00:59:45,119 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 2: God, It's Clay calling from Texas.

952
00:59:47,519 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 4: I do is sef' Well what's on your mind?

953
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:50,119
Speaker 3: Well?

954
00:59:50,119 --> 00:59:52,559
Speaker 2: First, I just want to say that I could hear

955
00:59:52,599 --> 00:59:56,280
the emotion in your boys talking about Kitch and that's

956
00:59:56,519 --> 00:59:59,440
really the best, most beautiful test that we could give

957
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:03,760
this one. It was our friend. And also that correlates

958
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,119
to what I'm calling about today. You know, earlier you

959
01:00:06,199 --> 01:00:08,639
had asked, you know, how did we get here? I

960
01:00:08,719 --> 01:00:13,199
personally just had to just attach myself from my best

961
01:00:13,199 --> 01:00:16,440
friend of thirty years a couple of days ago. And

962
01:00:16,519 --> 01:00:19,519
it ended with him like, you're a fucking bigot, dude,

963
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:25,400
you know, because he had spoke, we had spoke about

964
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,840
bad money before. Let me give backstory. First, I grew

965
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:34,440
up in the industrialized corner of Indiana backs up right

966
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,800
to the rural section of it, so there was a

967
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:39,880
lot of and I'm also fifty one, so there was

968
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,920
a lot a lot of casual bigotry that just existed there.

969
01:00:44,519 --> 01:00:47,840
And of course I was up edgy, you know, rush

970
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,760
limbad ditt ahead when I was in my twenties. But

971
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,119
as soon as Trump came onto the scene, I was like, no,

972
01:00:54,199 --> 01:00:57,039
I ain't. I ain't down with this, you know, like

973
01:00:57,159 --> 01:00:59,480
all that stuff. I talked about freedom and liberty like

974
01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:02,960
I meant you guys apparently didn't. And so I have

975
01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:07,199
slowly become I'm you know, I'm a social democrat, like

976
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,039
I love Zara, you know. But this friend, he would

977
01:01:11,039 --> 01:01:13,280
say things and I'd be like, you know, I'm not

978
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,400
okay with that, dude, you know, like, dude, I'm not

979
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,800
an okay person to say the N word around anymore.

980
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,239
And stuff like that, you know, but I have such

981
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,400
a close connection to this guy that I hung on

982
01:01:25,119 --> 01:01:29,079
and when he would say things like that, I'd be like, yeah, no,

983
01:01:29,159 --> 01:01:31,880
you know, because he was not like this back then.

984
01:01:32,599 --> 01:01:35,559
That's the point. And going to get to it was

985
01:01:35,599 --> 01:01:38,000
always I would back down and I would try to

986
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:43,920
accommodate his feelings or accommodate Well, no you're not you know, no,

987
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,840
it's not okay to knock down the White House. And

988
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,559
then so this because we had he's it was a

989
01:01:50,599 --> 01:01:54,400
text where he's like, you know, I just this is bullshit.

990
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,079
I got that immigrant play in the super Bowl halftime.

991
01:01:57,079 --> 01:02:05,199
You know, that's just it. It's disrespectful to Americans, you know. Yeah.

992
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,159
And I was like, he's a fucking American.

993
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 5: You know what.

994
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 2: Why he also has money problems? I was like, you

995
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,440
know what, why you go join ICE will give you

996
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,960
a fifty thousand dollars signing bonus and you can go

997
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:21,519
terrorize for other people? Then fuck you? And uh the

998
01:02:21,559 --> 01:02:25,559
reason I responded that way is because I'm just I'm done.

999
01:02:26,079 --> 01:02:29,280
You know. I can't have a conversation with you about

1000
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:33,079
this because you always say the most bigoted shit, because

1001
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:37,159
Fox News turns your dad into an asshole. He turns

1002
01:02:37,199 --> 01:02:40,880
you into an even bigger asshole. That's how we got here.

1003
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 4: I hear your frustration. So yeah, all right, Well, anything

1004
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,000
else you want to offer up you sort of venting frustration,

1005
01:02:51,039 --> 01:02:52,920
anything else that's on your mind before I move on.

1006
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:57,199
Speaker 2: Well, as much as it's venting frustration, it's just part

1007
01:02:57,199 --> 01:03:00,000
of the conversation. I appreciate you letting me monologue there too.

1008
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,360
I'm not as angry as I sound. I just kind.

1009
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:09,079
But it's a similar experience that you've had. I'm sure

1010
01:03:09,199 --> 01:03:12,039
you know I've heard you talk about your upbringing and

1011
01:03:12,119 --> 01:03:15,880
your deconstruction. Yeah, so it's just I mean, that's where

1012
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:19,119
the war on expertise came from. You know, they can't

1013
01:03:19,159 --> 01:03:21,119
see the forest through the trees.

1014
01:03:21,199 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 8: You know.

1015
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 2: It's I just I don't get it. But at the

1016
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:25,519
same time, I'm like a lot of us.

1017
01:03:25,559 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 5: It's like we're done.

1018
01:03:27,519 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 2: We're just done.

1019
01:03:28,679 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of people are there. I read John

1020
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,960
Pamelobits online is like they've had ten years, they have

1021
01:03:34,119 --> 01:03:36,639
figured it out. They're not good people. We're out And

1022
01:03:36,679 --> 01:03:39,440
that's a pretty hard line. But I think he echoes

1023
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,280
your frustrations. So you're welcome to Colin can ch had

1024
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,320
any time, my friend. I hope the new year is

1025
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:45,760
good to you.

1026
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:49,239
Speaker 2: Okay, I hope it's good to you too. And my

1027
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,320
heart goes out to you on your continued motion for

1028
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,960
your friend Chris. Oh well, thank you, Seth. Have a

1029
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:56,119
great day.

1030
01:03:56,039 --> 01:03:56,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1031
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 4: Thanks, well. I first of all, he would have hated

1032
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,159
to be called Chris. He would always correct people and

1033
01:04:02,199 --> 01:04:05,599
say it's Christopher. Secondly, I never met him. We weren't friends.

1034
01:04:05,639 --> 01:04:08,079
He didn't know me from Adam. That is a regret

1035
01:04:08,199 --> 01:04:10,519
I will carry with me to my grave because it

1036
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:14,079
was one of his debate videos that altered the trajectory

1037
01:04:14,199 --> 01:04:19,519
of my life. I'm telling you it was a seismic moment.

1038
01:04:20,719 --> 01:04:25,599
One click of one YouTube videos propelled me into a

1039
01:04:25,639 --> 01:04:29,519
whole new direction. I mean, I cannot overstate it, and

1040
01:04:29,559 --> 01:04:32,280
I always wanted to be able to. I've had dreams.

1041
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,199
I had a dream once that we were at some

1042
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:41,840
event and I scored like a dinner. Like after the

1043
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,280
conference was over, Hitch and I were sitting at a

1044
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:49,440
table and he was treating me like a peer, like, yeah,

1045
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:53,320
this Oxford graduate, genius mind and all that. I mean,

1046
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:54,880
I'm not saying it was perfect, but I mean the

1047
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:57,320
guy was next level and we're just sitting here and

1048
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,519
I was able to say all the things I've always

1049
01:04:59,519 --> 01:05:02,079
wanted to say. It was on this date back in

1050
01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:04,679
two thousand and eight, and I knew who you were,

1051
01:05:04,719 --> 01:05:06,639
but I didn't know much about you. And I clicked

1052
01:05:06,679 --> 01:05:09,559
on this video and that debate with the Rabbi Shmooley

1053
01:05:09,639 --> 01:05:12,360
Botiek in New York at the ninety second Street Why

1054
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,000
made me think about things and ways I'd never had before.

1055
01:05:16,119 --> 01:05:18,760
And you know, I don't know if i'd be doing

1056
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:20,599
the work I'm doing the way I'm doing it. I

1057
01:05:20,639 --> 01:05:22,880
don't know if i'd be who I am today if

1058
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:24,920
I hadn't heard your voice, and you know, if you

1059
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,400
hadn't kind of rattled my cage. I just wanted to

1060
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,280
thank you. And he was like, oh, my goodness, thank

1061
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,599
you so much. And then he sort of like dialed

1062
01:05:32,639 --> 01:05:35,199
in and focused in on me, and he was eye

1063
01:05:35,239 --> 01:05:37,639
to eye and he was like, well, tell me what

1064
01:05:37,679 --> 01:05:40,719
you were like growing up, and he was a sponge.

1065
01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:44,519
Tell me about your upbringing. What did you really believe? Wow,

1066
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,519
when did your doubts start? Oh, that's amazing. Tell me

1067
01:05:47,559 --> 01:05:49,679
more about the community that you're a part of. And

1068
01:05:49,719 --> 01:05:51,800
I was just sitting here, just thinking how did I

1069
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,280
get here? How did I end up in this chair?

1070
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:56,960
I finally get the chance to tell Hitch all the

1071
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,840
stuff I wanted to tell him, and I woke up, shit,

1072
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,440
oh my god, to the fact that it wasn't real. Oh.

1073
01:06:05,039 --> 01:06:08,159
It was just the biggest, biggest buzz kill. It was

1074
01:06:08,239 --> 01:06:12,800
like falling down a clip. No. But I was able

1075
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,039
to say it. I was able to say the words.

1076
01:06:16,199 --> 01:06:18,760
Some people don't like the word fan because it is

1077
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:22,880
the root of or it's derived from fanatic and so.

1078
01:06:23,039 --> 01:06:25,480
And someone says I'm a fan. Some people get weird

1079
01:06:25,519 --> 01:06:29,159
about that. But I don't see it as worship. When

1080
01:06:29,199 --> 01:06:32,800
someone says I'm a fan. Necessarily, I don't think you're

1081
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,320
better than me. I don't think that you have more

1082
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:39,679
value than me. Are you smarter? Are you not smarter?

1083
01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:42,840
He was smarter. But you know, if I say I'm

1084
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,960
a fan, and there have been such kind people who

1085
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,480
will be part of this community, and they listen to

1086
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,280
the shows and that watch the speeches, and they read

1087
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:51,840
the books, and they come out at an event and

1088
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:53,880
they're like, we're big fans. And you know, I used

1089
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,119
to blanch a little bit at that, but what I'm

1090
01:06:56,159 --> 01:06:59,800
hearing instead is not I'm fanatical about your work. It

1091
01:07:01,039 --> 01:07:03,920
spoke to me at a time when I needed it

1092
01:07:04,039 --> 01:07:07,920
or wanted it. It was something that we enjoyed, that

1093
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:11,519
I enjoy it made my life better. I've benefited in

1094
01:07:11,559 --> 01:07:17,280
a certain way and gravitated here, and I'm expressing gratitude

1095
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:20,440
for that. You know, it's just an expression of goodwill.

1096
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,239
And that's tremendously flattering and humbling. So instead of saying, well,

1097
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,079
I don't need a fan. I'm not a big star.

1098
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,440
But that's not the point that they're trying to make.

1099
01:07:28,559 --> 01:07:31,400
What they're trying to say is it benefits me. It

1100
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,480
means something. I enjoy it, and thank you. Well that's

1101
01:07:35,519 --> 01:07:38,960
an amazing sentiment. And so their correct response is simply

1102
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,119
thank you. And so if I'd had the chance to

1103
01:07:42,119 --> 01:07:46,840
meet Christopher Hitchins, I would say I'm a fan. I'm

1104
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:51,480
a borderline fanatical some of his stuff. I mean, when

1105
01:07:51,519 --> 01:07:54,519
I read hitch twenty two, I was like, Wow, you know,

1106
01:07:54,719 --> 01:07:57,360
God is not great. You know it's a good book,

1107
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:01,079
but you're like, this is a freaking smart guy. There

1108
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:08,519
is on YouTube a seven hour compilation of just Hitch

1109
01:08:10,199 --> 01:08:14,840
and I appreciate the fact that even in the debates

1110
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:18,199
like the one he did at Preston Wood Megachurch before

1111
01:08:18,239 --> 01:08:20,880
he died, and I think they included the part of

1112
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:26,960
the Google it was a speech at Google authors at Google.

1113
01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:30,119
There was another series of debates that he did with

1114
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:34,560
all of these Christian apologists. Well, I've listened to those

1115
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:37,880
and I've watched those, and the apologists are bringing the

1116
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,560
same old song and dance to the table. And I

1117
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:44,439
have a hard time now getting through the apologist section

1118
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:48,479
of a debate video because I want to stick my

1119
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:53,960
head through a concrete wall. But what this particular video is.

1120
01:08:54,079 --> 01:08:55,920
I wish I had a link handy, I'd put it

1121
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,000
in the chat, but you can just probably YouTube search it.

1122
01:08:59,159 --> 01:09:02,800
Christopher Hitchen seven hour. It's a compilation where they just

1123
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:06,520
took his sections of the debate and then his sections

1124
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,560
of his speeches. Some people would call that cheating. It

1125
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,920
would be cheating if religious apologies brought something new to

1126
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,880
the table that we haven't heard. But trust me, there

1127
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:18,720
is nothing new under the sun. These people have been

1128
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:23,680
singing that they've been parroting the same bullshit forever, And

1129
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:28,840
I'm more interested in Hitch's contribution to that conversation, which

1130
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:33,720
was more intelligent, more well researched, better defended, more logical. Right,

1131
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,239
So seven hour and I'll just play in the background.

1132
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,479
If I'm building Halloween decorations, if I'm putting together a

1133
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:46,359
Halloween roller ghoster out of PVC pipe, in the background,

1134
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,640
you might hear seven hours a hitch just doing his thing.

1135
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,439
I feel like in some way it kind of makes

1136
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:54,000
me smarter. Does that make any sense?

1137
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 3: Like?

1138
01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:01,359
Speaker 4: I didn't know that I downloaded the audiobook called Essays

1139
01:10:02,199 --> 01:10:04,479
from Christopher Hitchins. Is that what it's called. It's a

1140
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:06,720
series of essays. Let me double check this hang On

1141
01:10:08,239 --> 01:10:12,279
arguably by Christopher Hitchins, which is a series of essays

1142
01:10:12,279 --> 01:10:15,720
that he published in publications like Slate and Vanity Fair, etc.

1143
01:10:16,279 --> 01:10:21,560
New York Times. And he's commenting on everything. He's talking

1144
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:26,239
about Hitler, he's talking about the situation in various parts,

1145
01:10:26,319 --> 01:10:30,039
very specific parts of the Middle East, Islam and women.

1146
01:10:30,119 --> 01:10:34,920
He's talking about American democracy and the Clinton's and he

1147
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:36,640
was not a fan of the Clintons, neither of I.

1148
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:40,520
But he went through all of the and it's like

1149
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:48,000
thirteen hours of Christopher Hitchin's writings read narrated by Simon

1150
01:10:48,039 --> 01:10:51,359
Prebble that came out I believe after his hitches death.

1151
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:53,920
Obviously he wasn't able to voice it himself, but Simon

1152
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:58,079
Prebble does a tremendous job narrating hitches words. I'm listening

1153
01:10:58,159 --> 01:11:02,800
to that and I feel like I'm my knowledge base

1154
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:06,640
has increased. I know more now than I knew before

1155
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:08,840
I hit play a half an hour ago. Then I

1156
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,279
feel dumber because I'm reminded of how much I do

1157
01:11:11,399 --> 01:11:13,239
not know. I did not mean for this to go

1158
01:11:13,319 --> 01:11:17,159
off the rails into a hitch fest, but that's the

1159
01:11:17,239 --> 01:11:21,920
nature of a popirie type of show where you never

1160
01:11:22,079 --> 01:11:25,520
know what you were going to get. I have got

1161
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:30,720
to go, Love you guys, be safe, Happy New Year,

1162
01:11:31,359 --> 01:11:33,439
and we shall do it again soon.

1163
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 2: Okay.

1164
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:37,520
Speaker 1: Follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a

1165
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:41,199
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1166
01:11:41,199 --> 01:11:44,880
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1167
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,600
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1168
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:55,760
and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist dot com.