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Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Dan from Sunshine Coast, Queensland and I play

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at Matt cool On Golf Course.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to golf SMARTA Hi.

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Speaker 1: This is to be a sad round song from Stockholm,

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Swedom and.

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Speaker 3: I play at WORKERSH Barrier Golf country Club.

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Speaker 1: This is golf smartt number ten seventeen.

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Speaker 2: This is not just a GPS app. We're not telling

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you distances. We are telling you outcomes. We are predicting

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where your shots are going to go. This is something

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that is going to tangibly improve your score. I go

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get a swing change, or I go get a lesson. Right,

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there's going to be this period where you're making adjustments

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and you're trying to get used to the new swing

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and get used to the new fields. You're gonna be

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practicing quite a bit. Same thing with new clubs. There's

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not like this immediate impact to your score. That's not

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true with making better decisions. Making better decisions has an

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immediate impact literally overnight. You're going to reduce your scores

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because you're not going to be making mental mistakes anymore.

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You're going to be playing the high percentage shot every

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single time. If you take Newton's recommendations, if you make

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the highest percentage shot every single time, you're inevitably going

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to play better because of all the mental mistakes you

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would typically make. So if you're really looking to make

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a material impact on improving your score, giving you a try.

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Speaker 1: Moman Cabby app reads your launch monitor data to suggest

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your next best shot with creator Matt Williams. This is

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Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf

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minds to help you lower your score and raise your

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golf IQ.

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Speaker 2: Here's your host, Fred Green.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast.

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Speaker 2: Matt, going to see you, Fred, Good to see you too.

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Speaker 1: There's a movement of AI in golf that has to

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be discussed, and I'm so glad that we have you

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on to talk about this because of what you're taking

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advantage of bringing AI into golf. But when I first

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got the email from Matt Williams, I'm like, oh my god,

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the baseball player, the former Giant. Oh I'm so excite.

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Wait a minute, You're not Matt Williams. You're Matt Williams.

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Does that happen too often?

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Speaker 2: It actually does. I am were you a fan? To

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be honest, I've never been a big fan of baseball.

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You know, it ruins my golf swing. So I figured

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I just I focus and do the one thing I'm

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good at.

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Speaker 1: Good, good. But I want to before we get to AI,

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let's talk about indoor golf and simulator golf, because there's

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a definite movement going on for more and more people

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finding that simulator golf is as fun, maybe more fun,

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because it's a controlled environment and it doesn't take four

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and a half hours.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think that kind.

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Speaker 1: Of wraps it kind of fills it in right there. Right,

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I mean, enough said, No, We've got a lot of

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podcasts to go, don't do that.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I'm I'm kidding. Look, I could speak all

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day about this. You know what I think is really interesting.

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There's a lot of really good, I think articles coming

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out recently and they're analyzing just kind of why golf

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simulators and the usage of this technology is expanding. And

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you hit on two major factors. Right. Obviously, one, you

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can play all day, all winter long, whether it's light out,

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dark out, raining, you know, cloudy, whatever it is, right,

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I mean, you can continue to play indoors and on

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these simulators. But the other thing that I think is

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particularly interesting is you know, the rapid expansion of golf

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has you know, we hear about it all the time.

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It's the most amount of golf I think that's been

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ever played in history, and.

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Speaker 1: That since COVID, because pre COVID there was struggles going on.

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There was a lot of talk in the industry about

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how we're going to survive one hundred percent courses we're

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closing all over the place.

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Speaker 2: And via COVID, the frankly concepts like top golf, a

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lot of people have been introduced to the game and

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like you and I know, it's it's a fantastic game

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and we get hooked immediately. So you've got all this

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interest and demand that has come in, but unfortunately, the

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supply of golf courses has remained stagnant. So the statistic

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that I have seen is golf participation has grown forty

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percent since twenty nineteen, and essentially the golf course supply

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has remained stagnant. So the question is where is all

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this excess demand going to go? Because golf courses for

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the most part are full. Sixty four percent are operating

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at capacity. So you know, whether it be the just

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availability of tea time amount of time, it takes. You know,

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a lot of these participants and these golfers are strutting

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to turn to golf simulators as a way to scratch

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that itch well.

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Speaker 1: And then there's two phases of that. People have the

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simulators in their homes, yeah, right, or now the facilities

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are opening up where people can go, you know, kind

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of like you know you bring up and Barney Adams

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brought this up months and months ago, and I asked

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him about top golf. Is it having an impact on

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the growth of the game, And He's like, no, because

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people go to top Golf, they don't necessarily go start playing golf.

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It's like you go to a bowling alley and not

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everybody who goes bowling joins the league. Yeah, it's like, okay,

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good point. I guess that could be considered.

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Speaker 2: I might disagree with that a little bit. I think

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you can't you can't underestimate the impact that top Golf

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has had. They have introduced people to the concept of golf,

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even though it's not true golf, it is golf, Like

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you can't. That is undeniable. And I don't you know

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what I think where people rag on top golf a

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little bit, is they never really had a concept that

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help customers when they graduated from that top golf experience. Right,

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there's an evolution that you go through from getting introduced

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to the game to becoming you know, a golfer on

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an eighteen hole golf course. And Top Golf is top

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of the funnel, right, it is getting people introduced to people.

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You know, the twenty million people who are quote unquote

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interested in playing golf. It has given them really a

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friction list kind of you know, low risk way to

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start hitting shots and kind of you know, experience that

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shot euphoria that gets you hooked initially. But after that,

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that's where everybody else we have to pick up the

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slack because once they've gotten that inche and gotten the

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bug they hit their shots at Top Golf, they've seen

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it go into those you know, giant holes in the ground.

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Now they're ready to go and start playing more serious golf.

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And you know, to go from top Golf all the

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way onto a golf course that's a huge leap, and

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golf simulators and launch motors that give them again that

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low risk way to play. You know, they're not holding

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people up, They're not you know, having to spend four

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hours they can get kind of a nice condensed experience

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in a really a true golf type experience, albeit virtual,

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but then they can kind of start taking those baby

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steps actually making it onto the golf course itself. And again,

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I kind of come from a sales background. Right top

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of the funnel, you got to get people in the

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door before you can never kind of move them through,

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and I think Top of Golf has has done a

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great job in doing that.

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Speaker 1: Interesting because you know, there was that opportunity as well

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with video games. You know, that started around the turn

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of the century, around two thousand and even before that,

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and that had you know, I've heard of people who said, yeah,

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I was really good at the you know, Tiger Woods game,

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and so I thought I'd try golf and realize, oh

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my god, this game is really hard, and so it

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may have been turn on or a turnoff. I mean,

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I've heard stories on both ends of that. But video

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games really didn't have the impact of simulators. I mean,

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it's a completely different experience because you're actually not using

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your thumbs to play the game, you're actually swinging a

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golf club. And then there was the virtual and I

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never had one, so I don't know but like they

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came up with these sticks that attached to your screen,

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not attached, wirelessly attached, and you can swing the stick

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as if it's a golf club and pretend the virtual stuff. YEA,

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not explaining this, well.

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Speaker 2: No, I think you're you're explaining golf plots and more

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of like a virtual reality type experience. To be honest,

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I haven't played on one of those, you know. I know,

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Meta put a pretty big focus on developing the metaverse

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and things like that, but it still kind of looks cartoony.

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I am. I'm more of a technologist, so I very

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much believe that that will be a thing eventually, once

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you know, the technology catches up. But you know, I

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think the experience, at least at this point is it's

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still not quite there for for mass adoption, right, You're

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going to get the early adopters, you know, the people

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who are really wanting to try new tech, but to

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kind of get to that you know, early majority, I

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think it's got a little bit ways to go. But

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the you know, the concept is promising.

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Speaker 1: And what do you think about the growth and the

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potential growth of these locations simulator locations where people can

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go and are aren't you involved in that as well?

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Speaker 2: We are. Yeah, So frankly, our our entrepreneurship journey started

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with one indoor golf facility here in Kansas City. We

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all had corporate jobs. We were you know, this was

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during COVID, so we had that itch to play golf

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year round and we had access to one track man

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launch monitored at local club fitter. But you know that

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was you couldn't really play that very consistently because he

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was running a business. So you know, the idea is, hey,

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what if we turn this into a business, and we

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decided to take the leap. We all made the investment.

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We you know, at the time having kind of a

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golf performance facility, which is more just strictly memberships. We

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don't do food and bev restaurants everything. At that time,

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you know, you had a simulator paired with a bar restaurant,

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and that was the concept. And for us, as avid golfers,

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people who were really more looking for a place to

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practice and train rather than go to an entertainment concept

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that didn't exist, certainly not in our area and frankly

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around the country as a very novel concept. So we

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wanted something that one appealed to us. So it had

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to have high end technology, and number two, it had

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to have kind of a low operations effort. Right, we

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all had the day jobs. We couldn't be there twenty

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four to seven, so we needed really a concept that

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would allow people to come into the facility even if

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we weren't there, So kind of has a badge and

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badge out type access system. They pay a monthly fee

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and then they can use the facility any time. So

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that concept is called golf Track. The first location was great.

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We were casually positive in sixty days, we were faring

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on a wait list in four months. Really appealed very

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well to our core demographic. That led us to open

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up our second location, just about twenty minutes away from

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the first one. We then decided, hey, you know, if

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that's not enough, let's start franchising this because we've got

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a lot of inbound requests from people saying is this

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a franchise? How have you thought about franchising? And we

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realized there was a big opportunity out there, so made

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the investment, stood up the franchise operations. We've now sold

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sixteen franchise units coast to coast all the way from Eugene, Oregon,

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down to Tampa, Florida. So this is something that I

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think is continuing, continuously accelerating. We've kind of proven the concepts.

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You know, what's a little bit unique about the golf

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track concept is it has the memberships, but it also

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pairs it. It's not just a strictly unmanned twenty four

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to seven concept.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: We have APGA and instructor who is doing lessons of

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club fittings as well, so that people who are coming

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into the facility practicing they have, you know, somebody that

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they could you know, get a lesson from or get

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a club fitting for a new equipment. So it really

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kind of, you know, completes essentially the entire ecosystem of

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what avid golfers like us actually want. And we didn't

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just do just TrackMan launch monitors. We actually invested in

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putt View. That's another core partner of ours because one

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of the things that we surveyed the members and we

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asked them, you know, what's what's the one thing that's missing?

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They said, short game. We got to have short games.

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So we didn't just want to put up putting Green.

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We thought, hey, if we've got a nice tech enables facility.

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We better have tech on our putting green. And put

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View is a great partner if you're not familiar, but

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they effectively do kind of a simulator type concept on

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a putting green. They map out the dulations and they

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have basically a projector that displays aim, lines, games, all

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different kinds of things onto the putting surface itself, so

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you can practice different ladder drills, you can play darts,

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you can play tic tac te's. It's really cool and

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all the time you're really kind of honing in on

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your aim and your putting stroke and making sure that

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that short game is just as good as your long game.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious with the golf track, like when you first started,

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you're in Kansas City. Did you do research about maybe

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this isn't the best location to start to test this?

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Is this a great golf community or do we have

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potential of people who want to play that aren't getting

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out there. I mean, why Kansas City is the start

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and what other options were there?

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Speaker 2: Well, i mean, we're all looking in Kansas City, so

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it was never really a question of, you know, would

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we go somewhere else. The question certainly was will this

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actually work in our market. We right, you know, certainly

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have winter like we have. We have you know, a

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period during the winter when it's not ideal to play.

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For the most part, you can play in just about

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every single month, you know, there's enough warm days where

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you know it's above forty five. You know, forty's kind

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of cut out for me at least, So there's definitely

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times in the winter and in December, January, February where

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at peaks and you can get out there with our

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courses remain open as long as it's warm enough, you know,

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you can get outside, as opposed to like you know, Iowa, Minnesota,

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where you know, certainly the golf courses shut down. So

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there was a little bit of concern. It's like, hey, well,

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if theoretically you can't play outside year round, will people

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actually use this? And and that was actually, frankly why

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we built our nowonon platform. So we were concerned about seasonality.

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We were concerned about people not wanting to come indoors

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when they could play outdoors. And what was pretty interesting

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to us is those first people that came in, they

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would hit clubs, they would hit shots, and they kept

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complaining that our tech is wrong. Right, They're like, Noah,

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those those yards numbers are wrong. Turns out they were wrong, right.

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They had inflated egos and you know, different views on

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how good they were and how far they actually hit

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their shots, and the data told a very different story.

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So the thought I had is, Hey, if they're making

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bad decisions or don't truly understand how they're hitting their

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shots indoors when it's perfect lies, you know, no distractions,

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I guarantee you they're thinking, you know, incorrectly about their

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game when they actually go out on the golf course.

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So I got to think. And I come from a

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tech background. I've sold software for my entire career. I

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definitely know what it's capable of, kept up to date

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with all kind of the trends in AI and things

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of that nature. And I figured, hey, we could take

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that data right that understands exactly how you hit each club,

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pair that with GPS information with a golf course, and

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we could actually make recommendations on what club you should

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hit and where to aim better than a human could.

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And we do that by essentially mapping your dispersion pattern

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and creating a statistical representation of where you're most likely

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to hit so our When our app is, you know,

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working and out on the golf course with you, it

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acts like a digital caddy. You literally push a button

301
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and it scans the hole. It analyzes essentially every club

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and name combination based off of the data you've input

303
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it from your launch monitor sessions, and it calculates what

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your likelyhood is to hit the fairway, green, penalty area

305
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bunkers for each each club and aim in your back

306
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and it'll say, okay, well, this club and aame combination

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is the best because it gives you highest odds to

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hit your target, whether it be the green and the fairway,

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while also minimizing your risk of hitting it into a

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penalty area. And I use it exclusively on the golf courd.

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I don't use my range turner anymore. I literally just

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hit a button and it tells me my quote unquote

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literally my high percentage shot and I hit that and

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it works phenomenal. It reduces those big misses that I have.

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And I'm a I'm a one handicap, so I'm out

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there even though I've played golf my entire life, four

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or five times out of the round, it'll actually tell

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me I actually hit something different than I typically want

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to think of, and it's right. So it's a phenomenal

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experience and I'm really excited. This is obviously something we

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built for our facility, we're partnering with other indoor facilities,

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but we're also trying to get you know, you know

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other folks who are using these launch monitors, using kind

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of more of this data driven approach to golf and

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want maybe a second opinion on some of these shots

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and maybe a way to reduce their scores.

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Speaker 1: Well, you got way ahead of me. I was gonna

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we were going to talk about the Noon and APPP

329
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and you opened the door and I know, and you

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jumped right through it. Let me guess you've done sales.

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So but I do want to talk more about the

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golf track locations, the physical locations, and we will talk

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more about Noon and App. But I do have to

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ask when you said that you're using the Noon and

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App and it told you to do something different than

336
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you had planned? Ye, were most of those changes corrections, suggestions?

337
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Ego crushing? I mean, were you thinking that you should

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do the other show because of ego or because of

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skill level? Because clearly you have that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I think it is a little bit

341
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of ego. I think it's it's well, it's it's one,

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it's ego, and then number two, it's just the ability

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to only have so much in your mind at one time, right,

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you know, And I'll give you an example. So we

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typically think of our clubs in terms of average carry distance. Well, frankly,

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I think we just we would even just say average distance,

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which in most cases includes role. Well, if you've got

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towrst carry like, carry distance, frankly is probably the most

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important thing. How many people have actually measured what their

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carry distance is for every single club unless you're.

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Speaker 1: Possible, because you're you're not.

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Speaker 3: You know, the only way you can do that is

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with a launch monitor, right right, correct, So you need

354
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to know those numbers because if you've got a force

355
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carry of water or over a bunker or short sighted,

356
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you got to know what that carry number is.

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Speaker 2: But then you also need to understand what your miss is, right,

358
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because you don't hit an average carry to an average

359
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,559
is literally an average of multiple numbers, meaning you hit

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it short of that number, and you hit it long

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of that number, and you know the average is somewhere

362
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in between. So what you really need to understand is

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the likelihood that you will hit it a certain distance.

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And that's where more of a statistical dispersion pattern comes

365
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into play, because we understand what your your variance is

366
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or what your mishits are. So when I say you

367
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should hit, you know, a seven iron, and I'm recommending

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that because you've got to force carry over water, we're

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doing that because we have calculated your likelihood to hit

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to carry the water with that club, and it's better

371
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than an ad iron. So where you tend to see

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some discrepancy between what people's gut tells them they should

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hit and what they're what the data shows, it's often

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because yeah, the average number probably is a little bit

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close to the pin, but if they mishit that club

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in any way, they're now in big trouble. And it's

377
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those big numbers that really inflate your score. So what

378
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,880
you should be doing is you should be mitigating against

379
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any of that risk. So in that particular case, it's

380
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better to club up and take that water out of play,

381
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even if you hit a bad shot right and just

382
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accept you might have a little bit longer of a

383
00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:28,960
put than to try and you know, force an aid iron.

384
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And really hope and pray that this is the time

385
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that you're going to catch it nice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious when you know, we talk about carry

387
00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:43,759
distance and total distance with your wedges. I'm sure you're

388
00:20:43,799 --> 00:20:47,920
really good at getting a lot of backspin on the ball. Wait,

389
00:20:48,599 --> 00:20:53,039
I've never yeah, right, but I've never I've never done that,

390
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and I would like to see what it looked like

391
00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:58,880
on your carry distance in your total distance, because your

392
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,880
total will be less in your carry for sure. It's

393
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not what you've experienced.

394
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Speaker 2: No, no, it absolutely can be. But for the most part,

395
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I mean, you know, we've definitely seen pros that'll spin

396
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it back thirty thirty fee yet or something like that.

397
00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:18,200
I mean, you see that for sure. You know that

398
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that generally doesn't impact what a recommendation would be. You know,

399
00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:25,279
It's it's interesting to definitely see like a carry distance

400
00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:27,599
being longer than a total distance in some cases, but

401
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,519
for the most part, you're not too worried about, you know,

402
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:32,359
spinning it back all the way off the green into

403
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,880
a water hazard. For for most I would say, you know,

404
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,680
ninety nine point you know expertise.

405
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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm definitely just thinking of what I see

406
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on television, because you know, you just don't see I've

407
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had I've seen where I've had some backspin on the

408
00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:50,559
ball and it's like, oh, because my mark, you know,

409
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,319
my divid is here and my ball's back here. That's interesting.

410
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I didn't know I can do that, So I would

411
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think that that's I've always wondered, how did they know

412
00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:04,480
how much backspin they're going to get on it? It's

413
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just my ignorance.

414
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Speaker 2: Okay, well, I mean no, it comes down to understanding

415
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,720
your numbers, right, I mean, if you're in a launch

416
00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:14,160
monitor and you're hitting shots with each club, it is

417
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,240
telling you that it is calculating what your spin rates are,

418
00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:20,680
and it will show you that, hey, your total distance.

419
00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:24,000
You know, you're typically on average getting you know, less

420
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total distance than you do carry distance because of the

421
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,400
amount of spin that you're generating. So you know, if

422
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you don't know those numbers, or you haven't plugged those

423
00:22:31,759 --> 00:22:34,160
into an app like Noonan, when you're out on the

424
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,160
golf course, like you're making decisions based off of an

425
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,079
incomplete data set. Frankly, right, you're you're going into a blind,

426
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,680
You're you're thinking you hit your clubs one way based

427
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,359
off of what an assumption. A time that you hit

428
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,319
a good one time, you know you're judging it from

429
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,119
one hundred and fifty yards away and a driving range

430
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,000
you can't really see where the ball lands like it's

431
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,759
it's an incomplete way. So you know our our expectation

432
00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:01,599
and frankly what we is. You know, the use of

433
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,759
these launch monitor technology. You know the way that the

434
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,519
access is improving through facilities like golf track or the

435
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,279
technology getting cheaper like this is eventually going to be

436
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:14,920
table stakes for any golfer. They're all going to be

437
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,400
hitting with launch monitors in some form of fashion. Everybody

438
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,039
at the pro level is doing it, Everybody at the

439
00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:25,559
you know, elite allegiate collegiate level is doing it. A

440
00:23:25,599 --> 00:23:28,079
lot of amateurs, avid golfers are doing it, and then

441
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,680
soon it'll be kind of that late majority laggers who

442
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,119
are adopting as well.

443
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Speaker 1: You talked about with the golf track facilities that you open.

444
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,839
There's so many questions I have about that, and I'm

445
00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:46,759
going to go back, but I am. I promise I'll

446
00:23:46,759 --> 00:23:51,279
bring it back to noon. And but how many when

447
00:23:51,319 --> 00:23:55,160
you started out, how many stalls per employee that you

448
00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:58,480
had running? I mean, I love the idea of bringing

449
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,039
in a head pro there teaching pro to have their

450
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,839
on staff, and I've seen that at Top Golf as well.

451
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,640
But what was the ratio? I mean, you know, other

452
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,039
than the physical location, you didn't have a kitchen to

453
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:16,519
worry about to start, I would think, So you're overhead

454
00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:21,039
and you said you were profitable in sixty days with

455
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:26,200
that first location. Amazing, So how so what was that

456
00:24:26,319 --> 00:24:27,440
ratio there? I'm curious.

457
00:24:27,799 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first location was about two thousand qure feet

458
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,880
and we had three TrackMan base in a put view

459
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,319
that was manned by one resource. They were there pretty much,

460
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,799
you know, eight to five most days. We try and

461
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:45,960
get those resources essentially generating revenue as well, whether they're

462
00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:50,039
doing the lessons in the club fittings. So that that was,

463
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,200
you know, pretty much the model. Mostly that person is

464
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,440
helping with onboarding. They're there to answer questions because inevitably

465
00:24:57,519 --> 00:24:59,839
with technology, there's always going to be a little bit

466
00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:02,599
of an issue your computed and at restart or what

467
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,640
have you. It's sold out pros things like that. You

468
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,880
do need some support and if it's not going to

469
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,119
be you as the owner, right you better have a

470
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,519
staff member to help support that. So that was kind

471
00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:15,920
of the model that we had. And what's nice is

472
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,839
now that we've started to expand, that ratio really doesn't change.

473
00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:23,319
You know, you you can still manage multiple facilities with

474
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,400
the same FTE resource, so you start to get economies

475
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,119
of scale once you grow beyond that, and that's definitely

476
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:32,279
what we experience. So we've got you know, kind of

477
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,319
a GM operator that's managing the facilities, kind of taking

478
00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:38,759
day to day operations. They also do lessons, so they're

479
00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:42,640
revenue generating resource. And then we've got you know, a

480
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,279
couple head professionals. One is fully on staff, another you

481
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:48,960
know sometimes kind of rents out the facilities. And we

482
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,119
do some partnerships with the club fitters and some other

483
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,960
teaching pros if they need access to our facility and

484
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,319
we you know, work with them on that. But all

485
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,799
of those things are just you know, extra revenue streams.

486
00:25:59,839 --> 00:26:03,000
You know, the majority of our revenue is just monthly memberships.

487
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,039
So once we start to tack on things like leagues

488
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:11,680
and you know, services from lessons and club fittings, that

489
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:15,480
just kind of increases the per unit revenue. And that's

490
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,240
what's been really appealing as we started to franchise is

491
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,440
we really do focus a lot on finding owner operators

492
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,599
who are PGA instructors. The model works extremely, extremely well.

493
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,759
The unit economics changed so dramatically if you are the

494
00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:34,559
person who is also managing the facility, because you're paying yourself, right,

495
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:37,319
so essentially your salary is covered by those monthly memberships

496
00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:39,839
and then that book of business that you've likely brought

497
00:26:39,839 --> 00:26:43,480
over from your teaching career, they're going to convert over

498
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,319
two membership, so that's going to help you get off

499
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,960
the ground much quicker. But then all of those services

500
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,440
revenue is going to go straight to your bottom line, right,

501
00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:53,920
so that the unit economics, like I said, the margin

502
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,680
profiles are are extremely attractive when you were that owner operator.

503
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,839
So we've got you know, great franchise e in Nebraska

504
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,680
who is you know, fits that profile, very excited, he's

505
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,440
going to do extremely well. And then you know, as

506
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,559
far as we also definitely do appeal to the investor types.

507
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,640
We just sold our entire Kansas City market to an

508
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,960
investor and they're looking to you know, essentially own and

509
00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:22,039
operates five different locations. So for them, you know, they're

510
00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:25,559
hiring one of our resources to become the GM and

511
00:27:25,559 --> 00:27:28,240
they're going to manage the data day to day operations.

512
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,440
But it's you know, it's obviously a great business to

513
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,359
invest in because you know, it is providing a semi

514
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:36,720
passive revenue stream.

515
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:43,759
Speaker 1: And with with the golf track expanding in the beginning,

516
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,799
how did you get the word out to make it? Uh?

517
00:27:48,759 --> 00:27:52,319
You know, booking up so quickly and I guess having

518
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,720
a waiting list people have to book in advance, just

519
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:58,200
like on the golf courses. Now did you use social

520
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,799
media or how did you get the word out so

521
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,200
quickly and make it such a success so fast?

522
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: I mean, partnerships are key, right. We we knew in

523
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,079
our local area, and this is why I think franchises

524
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,680
is important because every golf community is going to be

525
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,519
a little bit different. There's going to be connectors in

526
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,440
the in the ecosystem that you know are going to

527
00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:19,960
help drive you know, interest as well as people had

528
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,440
actually come in and check out the facility. So getting

529
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,960
those partnerships in place, we partnered with the local it's

530
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,319
called Central Links. They manage all of the local tournaments

531
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,839
on an amateur and USGA qualifying basis. So we did

532
00:28:31,839 --> 00:28:35,079
partnerships with them. We did partnership with local businesses who

533
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,920
had kind of some connective tissue to our concept. And

534
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,680
then you know, of course social media, advertisements, radio. I mean,

535
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,920
we literally tried virtually every single channel that we could

536
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,519
possibly think of, identified which ones were working really well,

537
00:28:49,559 --> 00:28:53,079
which ones don't work really well, and that's kind of

538
00:28:53,079 --> 00:28:55,319
given us, you know, obviously the playbook so that when

539
00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:59,480
we open our second location, we opened that one profitable

540
00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:01,559
from day one one because we had already pre sold

541
00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:04,839
a wait list. We had those people, those numbers ready

542
00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:07,440
to go, so we had kind of that break even

543
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,200
membership number already signed up that were essentially using the

544
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,599
first facility while we were getting the second location already

545
00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:17,759
stood up. So you know, it becomes pretty much Prince

546
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,480
repeat after you figure out what works or what does.

547
00:29:20,359 --> 00:29:23,119
Speaker 1: It and what time of year did you open the

548
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,160
first one? Did you do it at a time when

549
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,359
people can't play golf or did you while they're high

550
00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:31,599
on playing on a regular basis.

551
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, we definitely try and time these, you know, to

552
00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:38,319
coincide with the indoor season. So the first one opened

553
00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:41,680
in August twenty three. Second one, unfortunately, we had some

554
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,240
permitting things, you know, those those things will happen. We

555
00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:47,079
didn't get that one opened until January, but it was

556
00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:50,200
still kind of during those those winter months, and you know,

557
00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:52,920
we didn't have any trouble opening. You know, I could

558
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,519
definitely see if you try and open it in kind

559
00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:56,319
of early spring when people are starting to get excited

560
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:58,440
about outdoor golf, that you know, there there may be

561
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,680
a little bit of a challenge, but but you know,

562
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,839
definitely for the avid golfer, they see use of this

563
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,880
technology even when it gets nice outside, as really an

564
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,839
integral part of their practice routine. So it is kind

565
00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:14,960
of interesting. There's a seasonality aspect that will happen February.

566
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,319
After February, you see a little bit of a drop off,

567
00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:20,240
but then once that drop off stops, it actually starts

568
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,440
to pick up again because then you start to get

569
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,759
people who are now going outside. They realize, you know,

570
00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:28,400
I'm hitting balls driving range, or like, you know, I

571
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,240
can't get in and they realize, you know, all of

572
00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:35,400
the things we talked about just the downsides of outdoor golf,

573
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,839
like hey, I need to supplement this with something I

574
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,759
can do twenty four to seven, and they become members

575
00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:43,839
at that point. So it's kind of interesting. There's this

576
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,680
like you know, up and down thing that happens. When

577
00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:48,680
you typically would think it would continue to go down

578
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,839
to the summer, it actually starts to pick back up.

579
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. So with the membership aspect of it, do you

580
00:30:57,839 --> 00:31:00,759
allow people just walk into or if they're going to

581
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,319
rent a bay for x amount of time, they have

582
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,200
to become a member.

583
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,079
Speaker 2: Correct, they have to be a member, or we do

584
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:09,400
guest passes for them to come in with a member.

585
00:31:09,759 --> 00:31:13,480
But yeah, we don't do any kind of public you know,

586
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,519
fief hourly bookings anything like that. You can get a lesson,

587
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:19,200
you can get a club fitting if you're not a member.

588
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:22,920
Members get discounts on both of those. So there's you know,

589
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,160
incentives to just joining the facility. But yeah, we we

590
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:30,200
very much operate kind of like a boutique gym where

591
00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:33,160
you know, you become a member, pay that monthly fee,

592
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,960
but you get unlimited access to the facility, which is

593
00:31:36,119 --> 00:31:36,960
really really nice.

594
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,279
Speaker 1: But with limited amount of bays you're going to have,

595
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,079
it's like unlimited access if you can get access.

596
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:47,119
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and that's why we so we do it

597
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,720
a couple of things to curb that, right, We do

598
00:31:49,079 --> 00:31:53,359
caps on our memberships. So we don't, you know, exceed

599
00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,079
essentially a minimum.

600
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: You know what your minimum is, you have to be

601
00:31:58,039 --> 00:32:00,759
but you do have a cap on your max some number.

602
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,039
Speaker 2: We have a cap on the maximum. We don't you

603
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:08,680
have waiting lists? Yeah? Yeah, during the winter the clubs.

604
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: Most exclusive golf clubs have waiting lists. And you have

605
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,720
an indoor facility playing office simulators and you have waiting lists.

606
00:32:16,839 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome.

607
00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:23,759
Speaker 1: Good congratulations man, I thank you, thank you. That's amazing.

608
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: Appreciate that.

609
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,079
Speaker 1: So if you've got this really successful physical brick and

610
00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:39,839
mortar business going on, that you've now franchised in sixteen

611
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,440
locations and growing, what do you what do you project

612
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,119
for twenty twenty six? Twenty twenty six, we want to

613
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:51,480
be at one hundred. You know, well, we kind of

614
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,440
look at the comparables now that we're kind of in

615
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,200
the franchising world.

616
00:32:55,279 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: Frankly, we didn't come from this space. We've got a

617
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:02,720
CMO who is very experienced. She ran Title Boxing for

618
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,480
a number of years, which grew to several hundred franchise units.

619
00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:11,079
But kind of what the insiders are saying is indoor

620
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,839
golf franchises are among the if not the fastest growing

621
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,480
franchise concept out there, and you get a lot of

622
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:22,839
people obviously very much like us, who want to own

623
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,799
a business. They'd like to do it in something that

624
00:33:24,839 --> 00:33:29,640
they enjoy, golf being a pretty popular sport, and this

625
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:33,920
is a great way to kind of get introduced into entrepreneurship.

626
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,960
So we are getting tons of just inbound requests about

627
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,680
people kind of in our shoes who you know, are

628
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:42,480
maybe stagnant in their career, looking to do a little

629
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,200
bit of a side housele whatever, whatever it is, right,

630
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,759
maybe get out of the pro shop, you know, pulling

631
00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:50,359
T shirts and own a business and kind of control

632
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,720
their agenda. That is a dream for a lot of

633
00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:57,359
these people, especially these head pros that are just they're

634
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,720
working their butts off in these facilities and in many

635
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:02,920
cases their earning potential could be capped.

636
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:03,799
Speaker 1: You know.

637
00:34:03,839 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: The time away from family is a huge, you know,

638
00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:10,599
downside of working in some of the traditional facilities. So

639
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,239
business ownership obviously gives them the ability to really control

640
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,760
their own schedule, and I think that's a very appealing

641
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,480
thing for a lot of people who really have that

642
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:20,599
entrepreneurial bug.

643
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: One of the biggest surprises I've ever had on this

644
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,400
podcast is the amount of golf instructors that listen to

645
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,719
the show because they use it as a resource to

646
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,320
hear other instructors and what they're doing. So go ahead

647
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,480
make your pitch. I mean here, I'm delivering in them

648
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,840
to you. I'm not asking for a referral fee, but

649
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,800
here's your opportunity to have them sign up for this.

650
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:45,639
How do they do it?

651
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely? So go to golf trackfranchising dot com, spell golf

652
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,039
track good good point, golf g O L F t

653
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,079
r K dot com and there's a section called franchising. Yeah,

654
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:01,800
check us out look. I'll be the first one to say,

655
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,599
business ownership's not for everybody, right. This is not a

656
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,079
completely hands off concept, you know. I frankly, there is

657
00:35:10,119 --> 00:35:12,440
no business that is this quote unquote passive. I don't.

658
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,800
I don't believe in that. But if you are looking

659
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,880
to really control and own your your own business and

660
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,159
manage it, frankly, you're doing a lot of this right now.

661
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,480
Right You're teaching lessons, You're going and finding your customers,

662
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:27,519
You're you're doing all the things that require you know,

663
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:31,440
a business owner to do. So having your own business

664
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,000
and being able to take advantage of all the hard

665
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,719
work you've done and building your book of business, converting

666
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,880
those over to members and having kind of that base

667
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,880
salary then paid for and then tacking on, you know,

668
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,159
all the services revenue that goes straight into your pockets

669
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:47,480
instead of doing any kind of revenue share. It's it's

670
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:50,039
a phenomenal concept in a way to do this, and

671
00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:52,039
and right now is a good spot to get on

672
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:54,440
because if you look at just the growth that's happening

673
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,360
in this we haven't quite gotten past that growth curve.

674
00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:01,119
You know, the adoption cycles is still early on. This

675
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,079
is a good opportunity to kind of, you know, put

676
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:06,159
your stake in the ground and build your book, you know,

677
00:36:06,199 --> 00:36:09,800
in your local community before you know, the saturation happens.

678
00:36:10,679 --> 00:36:13,519
So I think this is a phenomenal opportunity to get in.

679
00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:17,519
And like I said, just entrepreneurship is great. It's it's hard,

680
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,519
but it's extremely rewarding. And if you're up for that

681
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,719
and that's something that excites you, let's sell.

682
00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:30,079
Speaker 1: Okay, So here's what I'm really baffled about. Now we're

683
00:36:30,119 --> 00:36:36,480
gonna pivot. Why when you've developed this really compelling business

684
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,920
for the twenty first century, that has legs, clearly has legs,

685
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,159
and as it doesn't have legs, it has jets that

686
00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:49,159
are just exploding behind you as you're moving forward. Would

687
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,840
you go to move to develop an app?

688
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 2: What do you?

689
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: I know, your tech guy in your software sales guy,

690
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:04,000
But isn't it kind of like small? I mean, I

691
00:37:04,039 --> 00:37:05,639
don't why would you do that?

692
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:13,639
Speaker 2: Confuse that fair question? Ask myself that a lot. I mean,

693
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,920
look that there was a period where I had a

694
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,679
full time day job. I was working at golf track

695
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,360
and my my main responsibility is the noon and app.

696
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,239
So my business partner handles a lot of the golf

697
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:27,079
track and the franchising. He's phenomenal with that. I handle

698
00:37:27,079 --> 00:37:29,960
a lot of the noon and app side. So building

699
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:31,639
bring it to market.

700
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, give Matt the app, keep them.

701
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: Busy, keep him out of our hair. Yeah exactly.

702
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's always selling.

703
00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: Let's give him the exactly, Let's give him something else. Yeah. So,

704
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,039
I don't you know that it's what I think what

705
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,159
kind of happens is. Maybe it's like pent up entrepreneurial

706
00:37:56,199 --> 00:37:58,320
spirit or you know, I don't know what it is.

707
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,960
But once you do make that leap and you start

708
00:38:02,159 --> 00:38:06,079
on this entrepreneurial journey, everything you see now becomes a

709
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:10,000
new business concept, right, so every problem in our business

710
00:38:10,039 --> 00:38:13,280
now becomes a new problem and a new frankly, an

711
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,920
opportunity that we can build process.

712
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: Problems are opportunities.

713
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 2: There are opportunities exactly exactly. So when we're like, hey, seasonality,

714
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,599
that's a problem. I wonder if we could use that

715
00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:25,960
data on the golf course? Is anybody doing that? No? Interesting?

716
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,760
I think that's a business starts out. Is just something

717
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,280
that we could use for our facility. And we're like, no, Actually,

718
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,760
this macro trend of use of launch miners, why don't

719
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,599
we just make it work with every launchmawer, not just TrackMan,

720
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,239
but every launchmarwer out there. And now this becomes a

721
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,199
mass market solution, so that one has this massive high

722
00:38:44,199 --> 00:38:47,480
growth trajectory that we can potentially take advantage of, in

723
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,400
addition to obviously the high growth opportunity that we have

724
00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:54,559
within the franchising to tackle onto that. Now we've got like, hey,

725
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:56,760
well there's some other problems that happen kind of within

726
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,800
the indoor facilities, Like our screens are essentially consuables. You

727
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,039
get thousands of shots, actually millions of shots at this

728
00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:06,039
point that are getting hit into this kind of small

729
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:09,519
area of the screen, they develop holes and that's aesthetically ugly,

730
00:39:09,679 --> 00:39:12,480
so you have to replace those, and those screen replacements

731
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,719
can be a thousand bucks a pop. So what if

732
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,559
we came up with a solution to help extend the

733
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:19,880
life of those that became you know, another project that

734
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,440
we're in the process of going and developing. So now

735
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,719
we've got essentially a new prototype that we've developed that

736
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,840
will extend the screen life by about ten next So, yeah,

737
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,239
it's this weird thing where it's like, hey, you know,

738
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:34,960
you almost have to start to say no to things. Fortunately,

739
00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:36,440
you know, we've come up with a couple of good

740
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,639
concepts that definitely have the legs and we validated the

741
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,000
product market fit that it has made sense to actually

742
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,519
go and invest the time and energy to build those out.

743
00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:48,920
And we feel like Noonan just given the use of it,

744
00:39:49,039 --> 00:39:51,719
the feedback that we've gotten from folks in this industry,

745
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:54,440
it's been extremely positive and we're excited about the potential.

746
00:39:54,559 --> 00:39:57,599
But it's not easy and.

747
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: Thus the destination of a serial entrepreneur. So now let's

748
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,159
talk about that noon and app. So, if you have

749
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,320
a launch monitor at home like a rap sodo, you know,

750
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,519
or something inexpensive, or you have your own launch monitor,

751
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,119
or maybe you go to the driving range and they

752
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:16,199
have a top tracer and you can use that all

753
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:21,880
that data that is being gathered on those launch monitors

754
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,039
and saved not just the warm ups, but go out

755
00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:28,079
and had, you know, hit all your different clubs. The

756
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:33,800
noon and app that you've developed access is that information

757
00:40:35,079 --> 00:40:38,519
and then makes suggestions on the course of how to.

758
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 2: Play the whole correct. Correct.

759
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:48,199
Speaker 1: That's pretty awesome. That's really really and because the app

760
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,719
ecosystem right now, the golf app community is pretty crowded

761
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,519
and more and more and we've you know, we've developed

762
00:40:58,559 --> 00:41:02,360
we've not developed anything, but we've had many conversations. We've

763
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,599
exposed many of these apps to our audience, and this

764
00:41:06,679 --> 00:41:12,480
one just has a different way of helping you with

765
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:15,960
your game. This is really unique. Tell me more about that.

766
00:41:16,559 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you're you're spot on. The app market is

767
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:25,159
extremely saturated. You know, there's some licensing platforms that you

768
00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:27,280
can go out and do and get some basic GPS data.

769
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,760
So the ability to simply say, you know, here's your

770
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,280
distance to certain areas of the golf course that's, you know,

771
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,880
essentially a commodity at this point. So obviously we didn't

772
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,840
want to do something that didn't add value. And specifically,

773
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,239
what our goal is is to really extend the value

774
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,960
that you're getting from these launch monitors. Right. I think

775
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,559
when you think about it, you've got this great treasure

776
00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:51,880
shove of data when you're out and you're practicing on

777
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,840
a launch monitor. All that data that gets generated could

778
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,480
be extremely valuable when you go outside, but there's nothing

779
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,440
that's helping you bridge that gap. So the question comes,

780
00:42:00,679 --> 00:42:04,760
how do I use my practice data to actually improve

781
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,000
my on course performance? Because at the end of the day,

782
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,679
there's one question that's waiting for you at the end

783
00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:11,960
of every round, and that's what did you shoot? Right,

784
00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:15,199
That's the only thing that's important, And if you're not

785
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,159
improving that score, you don't really feel that good at

786
00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:20,360
the end of the round about how you played that day.

787
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,719
So we wanted a way that we could actually changibly

788
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,360
improve those on course performance and improve your scores. And

789
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,679
we felt, by frankly understanding the data, this is the

790
00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:34,480
easiest path, right. You know, when I when I was

791
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,840
in technology, it's it's all about just removing steps. How

792
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,760
do you remove steps? How do you remove friction? How

793
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,840
do you automate processes? Right? The decision making process for

794
00:42:43,039 --> 00:42:44,800
what club do you hit and where do you aim?

795
00:42:45,079 --> 00:42:48,840
It's it's it's simply that it's a process. And where

796
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,559
people tend to get stuck and make mistakes is they're

797
00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:55,639
using you know, incomplete data. They are you know, skipping

798
00:42:55,639 --> 00:42:58,000
steps in their process. They're not factoring in for information

799
00:42:58,039 --> 00:43:01,599
where they're making human errors. And technology is phenomenal at

800
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,800
reducing friction, reducing steps and frankly doing it correctly every

801
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,320
single time. And that's and that's what we're able to do.

802
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,519
The missing link has always been the launch more data.

803
00:43:10,519 --> 00:43:14,039
We've always had information about the information on the golf course.

804
00:43:14,039 --> 00:43:16,159
We've always known how far is it to a bunker,

805
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,360
how far is it to a green middle, front back?

806
00:43:18,679 --> 00:43:21,239
All that information we've always known, but how and.

807
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,039
Speaker 1: Also what clubs you're playing because you have to enter

808
00:43:24,119 --> 00:43:27,519
that data yourself, right exactly, But we've never really had

809
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:32,119
the detailed data about exactly how you hit each club.

810
00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:35,159
Speaker 2: And we need to know not just you know, the averages,

811
00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:37,960
but also, like I talked about earlier, the variance in

812
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,519
your shot pattern. So Now that we've got essentially those

813
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,480
two data sets, we just combined them. All of a sudden,

814
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,039
we can make decisions better than a human can, and

815
00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:48,599
we can eliminate all those human area that happens when

816
00:43:48,639 --> 00:43:51,760
you're making those shot decisions. So this has really kind

817
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,239
of become, frankly, a new way to play golf. Have

818
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,199
it quite coined the right term. I don't know if

819
00:43:57,199 --> 00:44:00,559
it's high percentage shot or you know, the kind of

820
00:44:00,559 --> 00:44:03,320
making decisions based off of the percentages rather than the yardages,

821
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,679
but that's effectively what it is. You start to think

822
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,119
about shots not in terms of how far does a

823
00:44:09,199 --> 00:44:10,920
club go, but you start to think about it in

824
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,840
terms of what gives me the best chance to hit

825
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:19,599
my target while also mitigating my risk. And that's a, frankly,

826
00:44:19,639 --> 00:44:22,559
a more enjoyable way of playing golf. I liken it too.

827
00:44:22,639 --> 00:44:25,320
When I'm on a really nice golf course like Pinehurst

828
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,760
and you've got a great caddy with you and they

829
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,920
just hand you a club and say okay, aim over

830
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,719
there right, and all you focus on is swinging. It's

831
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,559
such a freeing experience because you're not weighed down by

832
00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:39,440
all those decisions that all your focus on is making

833
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,480
a good swing and you inevitably play better.

834
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: Can you use the app if you don't have a

835
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,039
lot of data behind you? Is it also helpful if

836
00:44:55,039 --> 00:44:57,239
you're just coming off of Oh yeah, oh I went

837
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,760
to track man, I did track top trace are at

838
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,599
my range for the first time the other day, so

839
00:45:02,639 --> 00:45:05,239
it really didn't hit all my clubs that day, but

840
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:09,000
you know I've got limited amount. What would the noon

841
00:45:09,079 --> 00:45:13,639
and app and spell explain Noonan and O N A N.

842
00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 2: Yep correct, Yeah, just just like the Caddyshack, Just like Caddie?

843
00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:20,519
Speaker 1: Is that where you got it from?

844
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,559
Speaker 2: Yeah? What's the famous I can think of?

845
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's fluff, so you don't want to call

846
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:32,199
it any sorry?

847
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 2: Bones? Yeah yeah right, bones.

848
00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:38,679
Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, well I'm older. So if you

849
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:40,800
don't have all that data, I mean, as you're building

850
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,119
your data, is this app also helpful?

851
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah? So you do need launch moder data right to

852
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,599
get the best experience with Noonan, you need the launch

853
00:45:50,679 --> 00:45:54,239
monitor data. That's that's frankly why we built it. You

854
00:45:54,679 --> 00:45:57,519
don't need a ton So what we recommend is a

855
00:45:57,519 --> 00:46:00,000
minimum of ten shots per club. The more data the better,

856
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,639
but ten gives us a good enough sample size to

857
00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:06,519
create that statistical dispersion pattern. So it takes about an hour,

858
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,039
hit about one hundred and thirty shots with your clubs,

859
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:11,960
and you've got enough data to really make really good,

860
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,360
intelligent decisions.

861
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: And what are the costs for this this app program?

862
00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:22,159
Is there cost?

863
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 2: I mean there is, yeah, So we definitely see nonon

864
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,639
as a premium offering. You know, this is essentially a

865
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:34,480
replacement to manual decision making and it's a score improvement tool.

866
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:36,679
So you know, the thing I always talk to people

867
00:46:36,679 --> 00:46:39,440
about is this is not just a GPS app. Right,

868
00:46:39,639 --> 00:46:42,760
We're not telling you distances, We are telling you outcomes.

869
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,880
We are predicting where your shots are going to go.

870
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,000
So the cost is two hundred dollars a year, and

871
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,440
this is something that is going to tangibly improve your

872
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,880
score because if you think about it, you know, I

873
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,239
go get a swing change or I go get a lesson. Right,

874
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,679
there's going to be this period where you're making adjustments

875
00:46:59,679 --> 00:47:02,440
and trying to you know, you know, get used to

876
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,400
the new swing and you get used to the new fields.

877
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,239
You're gonna be practicing quite a bit, same thing with

878
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,599
you know, new clubs. There's not like this immediate impact

879
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,239
to your score. That's not true with making better decisions.

880
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:18,719
Making better decisions has an immediate impact literally overnight, you're

881
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,719
going to reduce your scores because you're not gonna be

882
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,519
making mental mistakes anymore. You're gonna be playing the high

883
00:47:24,519 --> 00:47:28,039
percentage shot every single time if you take Newnon's recommendations.

884
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:30,599
So law of averages comes into play. If you make

885
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:34,800
the highest percentage shot every single time, you're inevitably going

886
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,519
to play better because of all the mental mistakes you

887
00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:40,320
would typically make. So, if you're really looking to make

888
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,039
a material impact on in your improving your score, is

889
00:47:44,159 --> 00:47:47,639
your goal give you aon a try Wow.

890
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:49,679
Speaker 1: So it takes the ego out.

891
00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:51,639
Speaker 2: Too correct correct.

892
00:47:52,519 --> 00:47:55,639
Speaker 1: That's a that's a hard thing to do. You know,

893
00:47:56,159 --> 00:48:01,400
caddies caddies real caddy. You know, you someone to argue with,

894
00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:03,559
you know, you know they've just met you and stuff.

895
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:08,840
But but having the AI, having the data there really

896
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,000
can crush your ego.

897
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,199
Speaker 2: What's really nice is, and I think this is pretty

898
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:18,159
unique to nonan we have we're making all of our

899
00:48:18,159 --> 00:48:21,639
recommendations based off of the data you entered. So you

900
00:48:21,679 --> 00:48:24,800
were there, you hit the shots, you collected the data,

901
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:27,880
you put it into the app. There's no guesswork of

902
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,159
like how did it make this decision. It's making it

903
00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:33,760
based off of the shots that you hit. So you know,

904
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,920
how do you take your ego out of it? You

905
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,159
look at the facts, and the facts are this is

906
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,360
how you hit each club. So you really can't argue

907
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,920
with that because data doesn't lie. And I think that's

908
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,519
that's what's unique, and that's what ultimately I think gives

909
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,960
even myself the buy in to use Newnan instead of

910
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,719
any kind of I'm not making decisions to myself. I'm I'm,

911
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,880
you know, out in the golf course hitting a recommend

912
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,079
club and I just go, you know, tunnel vision on

913
00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:02,119
the aim line. It gives me and I hit the

914
00:49:02,119 --> 00:49:05,440
club that it told me to hit, and it's giving

915
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,599
me really good recommendations every single time. And I've now

916
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,920
played some of the best rounds I've played all summer

917
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,440
because I've you know, drinking the kool aid. Frankly, if

918
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,440
I'm the founder, I bet I'll be using the product, right,

919
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,760
so I use this exclusively, and I will say, like

920
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,239
this is a really fun way. I kind of an

921
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,000
unforeseen consequence when I'm out on the golf course, you

922
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,000
don't really realize like the mental drain that happens when

923
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,000
you're trying to make all these decisions in factor in

924
00:49:31,039 --> 00:49:34,320
all these things, like it's it's tiring, and when you're

925
00:49:34,519 --> 00:49:36,639
just using an app to tell you what to do,

926
00:49:37,039 --> 00:49:40,559
you forego all of that and it actually makes you know,

927
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,159
golf more enjoyable. It's if you're ever used like a

928
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:45,119
self driving car, and you went on a long road

929
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:46,800
trip and you get out of the car at the

930
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,360
end of it, you're kind of like wiped and neal

931
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,519
and really really really drained. But when you use a

932
00:49:50,519 --> 00:49:52,559
self driving feature, you get out like you actually feel

933
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:54,199
kind of refreshed because like you haven't really been paying

934
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,360
too much attention. You're kind of like hanging out and chilling.

935
00:49:58,239 --> 00:49:59,800
It's it's in that one and the same thing.

936
00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: I did that once and I got drowsy by not

937
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,440
I wasn't as an as engaged when I was driving,

938
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,280
and I got drowsy, and I'm like, Okay, I gotta

939
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,119
turn that thing off right now. That's that's the old

940
00:50:14,159 --> 00:50:18,679
guy looking up at it. Do uh do? Is it

941
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,119
available for Android and Apple.

942
00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 2: Right right now? It's just Apple. We are working on

943
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,719
on the Android. We wanted to get Apple right first

944
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,760
and then and then copied over to Android. We're still

945
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:32,519
small start up.

946
00:50:33,599 --> 00:50:36,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have a project date of a projection

947
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,719
of when it will be available for Android?

948
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:40,199
Speaker 2: Not yet?

949
00:50:40,639 --> 00:50:43,639
Speaker 1: Not yet? Okay, all right, well that's relevant, glad I

950
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,199
brought that up. And what about your your golf track members.

951
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,239
Is there an advantage to be a golf track member

952
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,199
to use the Noon and Ai app? There is.

953
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, They've been a great kind of test bed for

954
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,079
us or our corporate rom members. They've all gotten free

955
00:50:58,079 --> 00:51:01,119
access to the app and they've beta test it, giving

956
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,360
us feedback, told us kind of what they liked, what

957
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,199
they didn't. So we've incorporated all that feedback into the

958
00:51:06,199 --> 00:51:10,880
platform itself moving forward. For all of our golf truck franchisees,

959
00:51:11,159 --> 00:51:13,280
you know, we're not forcing them to use it. It's

960
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,760
it's up to them. But what we do do is

961
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,239
give them a revenue share off of any subscription that

962
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,440
they help influence. And that's the same thing that we

963
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:25,199
offer you know, across the board, golf truck members or

964
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,559
golf truck franchises get a little bit extra incentive, but

965
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:33,639
the opportunity exists for everybody and every indoor golf facility,

966
00:51:33,679 --> 00:51:37,199
because we see this as a way to really help

967
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,760
them not only make more money, but also improve the

968
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,320
stickiness within their customers. Because if you get hooked on

969
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:47,119
using noon in, there's an interesting thing happens. You want

970
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:48,719
to kind of prove that, like you're better than the

971
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,360
data says, So like you're going to come back to

972
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,119
the facility, hit more shots, be like you know, bad

973
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,000
data didn't hit great that time. Let me let me

974
00:51:55,039 --> 00:51:57,079
hit some more right and upload that data. It's like, oh,

975
00:51:57,199 --> 00:51:59,119
that dispersion, there's no way I only have like a

976
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,719
thirty percent has to hit the green from one fifty out.

977
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,239
Let me go collect more data, right, So all of

978
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,239
that typically happens, you kind of get this like you

979
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:10,679
know flywheel effect that goes on, and yeah, overall it's

980
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,119
it's a great way. So we're we're really focused on

981
00:52:13,159 --> 00:52:15,920
creating a partnerships with those indoor facilities to help get

982
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,400
the word out and help us sell mark sell nowonon,

983
00:52:19,519 --> 00:52:21,800
which gives you a monetary benefit to it.

984
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: Wow, and okay two hundred bucks a year, but you

985
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:29,920
know you can really admortize this in your head of

986
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,800
like this is really worth having. It's a lot cheaper

987
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,360
than having a caddy for every round I play correct

988
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:39,519
a knowledgeable caddy who knows my game. It's fascinated. How

989
00:52:39,519 --> 00:52:40,280
do people find it?

990
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 2: So we are on the app store. You can just

991
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:47,239
search newon Caddy should be the first search that comes up.

992
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,880
We're on Instagram, We're on Facebook. You want to check

993
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,599
out some of the content we posted. We've we've done

994
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:54,760
some you know, here's how you play it, and we've

995
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,320
shot some videos recently as some my co founders when

996
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,280
they when they don't use the recommendations, you can kind

997
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:00,960
of see what happened this when you go against the

998
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,760
recommendations and spoil alert. It goes in the water. But yeah, no,

999
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,599
it's it's a it's a great way to improve your game.

1000
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:13,199
Speaker 1: Well. I've always been attracted to young entrepreneurs because I

1001
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:18,199
was one myself at one point and fascinated by where

1002
00:53:18,199 --> 00:53:20,880
they're going and what they're bringing to the world of

1003
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,119
golf for now and in the future. And this is

1004
00:53:24,199 --> 00:53:30,360
definitely definitely fitting into the future. Congratulations, man, I wish

1005
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,480
you the best luck. I hope everything goes well. And

1006
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,440
if you're a golf Smarter listener, you might want to

1007
00:53:35,519 --> 00:53:40,639
check out the newnan app noonan Caddy n O M

1008
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:46,320
A M Caddy on an Apple. Matt, thanks so much

1009
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:47,679
for sharing this with us.

1010
00:53:48,159 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 2: Thanks Bred. Congrats on a thousand episodes. That's awesome.