Speaker 1: Hello, this is Martin Willis from your host, and welcome
to podcast UFO. I'm really looking forward to our guest tonight,
Christopher Sharp. I've been in touch with him, well, I
don't know, maybe over a year about different things.
Speaker 2: Really have loved some of his articles.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that he is one of these journalists that
actually take this topic of UFO's UAP seriously and so
there's a lot of there's a lot of great articles.
He has some great sources to go to Liberation Times
and you'll see all of that. I try to figure
out how many actual articles on UFOs and UAP there were,
and there's I don't know a lot, so check it
out over there. So I don't have the name of
the blog yet. This is Saturday ahead of the show,
so keep that in mind. I had to pre record
with Christopher because of the time difference. When our show
airs at eight pm Eastern New York time, it's one
am for him there, and so he and I are
recording here on Saturday, and I'm going to just bring
them right in.
Speaker 2: Welcome Christopher.
Speaker 3: Hey there. Lovely to be of you, Martin. It's good
to be talking personally. I think we've actually been in
touch with twenty twenty three because I remember working on
the Office of Global Access story with the Daily Mail,
and I believe I was trying to get in touch
with Jonathan Wage and yes, I'd love to have him.
I would have loved to have him for that story,
but unfortunately were unable to get over the line. But yeah,
it's fine. The story still turned out great, and I
want to thank you for your reference as well for
helping me.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Jonathan is you know, was very traumatized and as
people have seen him a couple of times on the show,
you can see his reaction. He is traumatized by the
whole situation and it did not want to talk to
any journalists. So it's too bad, because you know, I
think he has a lot to offer. I believe he's
very sincere and I think he has a lot to offer,
and but he he has he has trust issues basically
because of what happened to him.
Speaker 2: You know, I can understand.
Speaker 3: It, so understandable, understandable. But hey, I think you know,
since then, since we release that story, I think we've
hopefully learned a lot more about secrecy in you know,
what's been going on behind the scenes for all these years.
Speaker 1: Right, right, So where does your since you're writing, you've
written all these articles all this time, what is your interest?
How did your interests start in the topic itself?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure, if we're going to go way back, you know,
when I was a child and at primary school and
he asked me to write a story, a creative story.
It would always involve aliens and stuff, and I guess
I was always into that, and I really used to
enjoy watching the documentaries on TV with people like Georgian
and yeah, it just really captured my imagination. But I
guess when I started getting into secondary school and university
kind of like wither away that interested. And obviously you
get a professional career in London working in public relations
slash public affairs, and that's a professional world and it's
kind of like you'd be even scared to talk about
something like that because it would affectch your career prospects.
But I think what happened was I think that you know,
there were a few things that could of captured my interest. Again,
I think Bob Bazarre going on Joe Rogan with Jeremy
I remember watching that on a couch because I was
sleeping on a couch at the time with my family
when we were waiting for our new home to be built,
so my family sleep on a couch. And I'm just
like captivated by this in Bob Lazar's testimony and how
much seems to have been backed up by history after that.
And then I guess what happened is COVID happened. And
I think that was kind of like a kind of
a black Swan event. And I could see what was
happening in China in terms of, you know, the infection
rate and stuff, and it was like, gosh, this is
really coming our way. And I think seeing people's reaction
to something that's never happened before, it's been unprecedented, was
really interesting to me because I remember talking to one
of my colleagues at the time and I'm like, gosh,
we're gonna have to go into lockdown and stuff, and
because it's happening in Italy and he was like, no, no,
the Italians say kiss each other on the cheek and stuff.
It's just their culture. But I don't really think it's that,
but like people were just kind of people couldn't get
it in their heads this was going to happen, and
I guess what happened when COVID occurred. I caught it,
and I think I remember at the time seeing a
report on the Pentagon basically confirming the videos released by
To the Stars Academy were legitimate, and I was like, oh,
my gosh, this is like really happening as well. It's
other kind of a potential black swall event. And because
I think I had been exposed to just how really
really intelligent people were reacting to situations that had never
happened before, and seeing like, actually they're not really that
intelligent when it comes to it, they're critical thinking skills,
I just kind of blindsided. I started to take interest
in the UAP topic because I thought, look, it doesn't
matter how intelligent you are or anything like that. You know,
all these scientists and you know, skeptics and stuff. Unfortunately,
we as humans we suffered from group think and people's
biggest fear is basically being laughed at and stuff like that. Right, well, actually,
you know this is this is a really really ripe
topic to get into. And yes, that's kind of how
I got into it again after COVID.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's it is since twenty seventeen the New
York Times article came out that really had changed about
everything as far as the way I reacted, because when
I started this podcast back in twenty eleven, I really
kept it quiet. I mean, I didn't even tell my
son for the first three years, and eventually told him
that I was doing the show on UFOs basically. But
if the after that article came out in the New
York Times and people were talking about it openly, then
I felt like it wasn't a career crusher for me.
You know, I'm a fine art and antiqu appraiser and
I go and speak with clients, and you know, you
have to have an integrity for things like that, So
you know, I felt like it really diminished quite a bit.
And as things are today, I really don't care one
way or the other what someone thinks about me and
my thoughts about UFOs.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just because I've gotten older, but I just
you know, you can laugh at me.
Speaker 2: I don't care, but I think there's something to it now.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is my sister, my brother in law,
was a scientist at Los Alamos Labs. He retired from there,
and when I talked to my sister and my brother
in law, my brother in law is like, yeah, it's
very possible they could figure out a way to get
here that we've never you know, we could never figure
out how to you know, travel that distance. But maybe
they figured something out. He's like totally open minded. My sister,
you know, wants to know what's for dinner. She doesn't
care anything at all. She's never watched ten minutes. My
younger sister has watched the show many times and participated
in chat, but my older sisters wants nothing to do
with the topic. Think there's nothing, thinks there's nothing to it.
And it's kind of baffling when someone thinks there's nothing
to it, and no matter how much evidence there is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, strange, isn't it. It's just like such an interesting
topic for human psychology as well to see how people
react things like my wife really is not interesting topic
as well, you know. So, yeah, it's just the UFO stuff,
and I think my dad's really got into it. There's
my brother and stuff. And we were in Cornwall a
few years back and we saw like a really weird
object in the sky, but all pointing at it in
a pub garden and everyone else is just like they
don't care. It's just like switched off. So yeah, it's
really strange. I had an interview with Talk TV in
the UK the other day as well, and one of
the other guests on the show was a guy called
Noel Gardiner who was works with a heritage foundation. He
was a former aid for Margaret Thatcher and Al playing
to be like Alex. The host said, like his face
just sunk because he was like, gosh, like I know
these people like this is real, like and you still
like live on TV, just someone reacting to this for
the first time saying gosh, I really need to start
taking this serious. Yeah. I just find it really interesting
how people react to it, you know.
Speaker 1: Right now, I noticed on Liberation Times that there's a
lot of American and a lot of the United States
articles related to the United States, and it almost seems
like the UFOs is like a United States centric topic
in a way, you know, like there's so many there's
so much more interest or something.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that is.
Speaker 3: I don't think it. I don't think it in terms
of like the cases and stuff. I think that's really
really cultural, you know, let's look at the mystery drone incidents.
You know, that was happening over the UK, it was
happening in Europe. You know, We've had our fair share
of instance here and stuff in other countries as well.
I think in the Muslim world, I think a lot
of it is caught up in the gin. I've got
a Muslim friend actually and couldn't care anything about UFOs,
But all of a sudden, when you start saying that Gin,
she takes it prey. Seriously, you shouldn't like have flashlights
and put them in the sky at night, for instance.
That attracts them. So when they see these things, they
think GIN. And I think that's a really interesting aspect
to it in terms of the culture. But yeah, a
lot of the stories tend to be US centric because
that's where all the action is happening in terms of disclosure.
And also, the United States is the world's greatest superpower
and has been for some time now, and it kind
of like has a monopoly on this top top to
some extent, especially in the Western world. So yeah, it's
a lot of the secrecy has been based there and
that's what makes it so interesting. And I think the
other countries that you would look at China and Russia.
I mean it's very very difficult to kind of get
access to that because the language barriers and it's more
closed up in those countries and stuff. So I think
usd English speaking people in the US and the UK,
you know, we we kind of like look at these together,
and you know, we share cases like Rendall Sherman, the
you know, the the US instance, have happened text work
and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1: I just had a conversation someone interviewed me for their
show and he asked me, what are some other countries
quote as well? And I did say bent Waters, you know,
for for England, because I can't think of any other
cases monumental as that one.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, have you ever been to that area?
Speaker 3: No, I haven't actually, but I lived closer to it now.
I've just recently moved to Cambridgeshire from London and so
I'm actually quite close to it now. But I mean
I got a place in Ess is quite a lot
where some in laws of base and actually it's very
very close to there. You're just right close to the
border with Suffolk where it happens. I could actually get
there quite easily. So yeah, I I should. I should rely,
I should really get down there. I really really should
be great to go for a tour there. So yeah,
I think you just put an idea in my head.
I think that's a day out.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, you know a lot of people claim that there's
still things going on there, and you know, and speaking
of things going still going on, I saw some type
of articles somewhere recently where I don't know exactly where
it was, somewhere in the United States is saying, well,
the drones are happening again, and it just seems like,
you know, that was such a mystery in general, you know,
because of though the FAA said at first that there
was nothing going on, they had nothing to do with anything.
Then later they said, oh yeah, it was some testing.
So I mean they kind of walked it back, which
I think is to me, you know, I don't want
to get too conspiratorial, but it sounds like a cover
up type of situation because I don't think they really
knew what was going on. I mean, there were base incursions,
there was all kinds of things happening, and but the
drone thing is very much a puzzle you know, some
of them are just regular drones, maybe commercial drones or whatever.
Speaker 2: But you know, I had a woman on my.
Speaker 1: Show that described the drone in her backyard and she
lives in New Jersey. This about a year ago, and
it was did not seem like a regular drone to me.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I've had I've had similar testing. I've seen
similar things as well. It's so the way I go
about this is that I am I'm kind of like
on the sidelines in the way because I don't really
know what it is, so I keep different perspectives, and
you know, I published articles from Frank Melbourne, who thinks
a lot of it is kind of like Russian activity.
I published articles from my friend Mike Morgan, a former
retired retired detective in the UK, who thinks they're actually
potentially non human. But you know, I'm kind of like
of the opinion that these could be Chinese as well,
high tech Chinese. I mean, if we're looking at the
draining incidents, I mean we've had them in different areas.
We've had them in Plant forty two as well, where
Skudworks is based on the West Coast, and I found
the logs there as well, just say, they just couldn't
seem to take them down. And they've been happening in Europe,
they've been happening across the East Coast as well, and
I think you've got to kind of like look at
some of the bases they're affecting in New Jersey for instance,
And also you've kind of got to look at it
from the the case where you've been seeing lots of
kind of like UAP or drones whatever off the East coast,
seen by people like you know, Ryan Grace for instance,
over the training ranges. You know, it couldn't be that
these things have kind of like started moving more inland
now and just kind of like from my understanding, what's
what's happening. What I'm kind of been told is that
it is kind of like a mixture between Chinese and
potential non human craft which are present in these areas.
And I think Michael, I think his name was Michael Libelsberg.
Do you remember the guy who like exploded his cyber truck.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, yes, yeah, So he was basically claiming that
these things were Chinese, are like kind of like anti
dravitic Chinese things, and it's kind of like basically game over.
Speaker 3: They could have an unliberity payload of the White House.
And I find that really really interesting, and I think
he might be hearing a lot more about that potential
angle in the months to come. In terms of breakthrough
Chinese technology, I spoke to someone who's very knowledgeable on this.
I said, well, if it was Chinese, why would they
fly their most sophisticated craft over the US when they
could get shot down? And the person basically said to me,
it's kind of like, you know, us flying a self
bomber the Amazon over native tribes. We know that they've
got nothing to counter this, and that's apparently the way
that the Chinese feel about this. But I feel there
is something potentially to that, and I do think that
this technology has potentially been reversed neared by non human technology.
And look, the CIA is going to be keeping tabs
on these because you know, just just as we're seeing
over the test ranges potentially, and I think over Packs
River as well, where I think they've got UAP material
where they test a lot of high tech draones. From that,
the Russians and the Chinese are keeping tabs on these
areas they have been since the Cold War. They've got
submarines off the coast from my understanding, and they're looking
to see if there's any breakthrough technology being demonstrated over
these test ranges by the US, and the US is
doing the same thing in China and Russia. They're looking
at their kind of like their base is where they're
testing the advanced craft, saying okay, are we observing anything
that seems to be breakthrough, you know, and potentially linked
to reverse engineering of you know, alien craft as well.
From understanding, so it's such a it's a very really
interesting topic, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It really is.
Speaker 1: And you know, there was there was the drone incident
over Colorado I think it was four years ago then
that that probably wouldn't have anything to do with China.
There was probably a whole separate type of situation, I
would imagine, But do you remember that in Colorado? I
think maybe four years ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my colleague Marry von Rennen kanf was has been
covering that. From understanding, I'm not too familion the details,
but yeah, I agree, I think as well, like because
what you're kind of suggesting there as well is that
you know, just because we see something in the sky
that seems weird. It doesn't mean it's all from the
same origin. You know, like when you see a commercial jet,
you know it says American Airlines. You can't then just
like think, okay, there's another gettist guy that's American Airlines
as well. Now you've got different companies and like that,
different origins.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so this is yeah, this is an interesting conversation.
Speaker 2: I'm really enjoying it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, I never really thought about the
drones being a possibility of some type of reverse you know,
engineering breakthrough technology. But you know, it's that is an
angle that there is a possibility. And you know, because
I would think that if this really did happen, like
David Grush did say and and others have talked about it,
it wouldn't just be the United States that these things
have crashed and been you know, the retrievals weren't just here.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't think, and you.
Speaker 1: Know, people always ask me, okay, so why would technology
like that crash? You know, it's like the first thing,
it doesn't make any sense. Something could get here from
wherever it's coming from and crash.
Speaker 2: How could that be?
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, what do you what are your thoughts,
how would you answer that question?
Speaker 3: So that's really really good actually, so on the on
the Chinese aspects. So you know, one of one of
the reasons for kind of like getting this out, and
I think you know you would have seen it in
the age of disclosure, is that the Chinese may have
made breakthroughs in terms of their own reverse engineering, and
they now may now you know, potentially be able to
get ahead of the US and have dominance over this
because the US the programs are so kind of they
can't compartmented, and you can't really get enough people to
look at it and make any breakthroughs from the technology.
So you know, one of the aims is basically to
ensure that there's more people looking at this, more engineers,
more physicists, So that that's one of the aims. And
from my understanding there is actually I've been told this disclosure.
If we're going to go there, you can I have
been told that you can actually provide access to the
craft and you can actually disclose the fact that you've.
Speaker 5: Got the the vehicles of non human origin, and that
would would likely not cause a huge national security impact
in terms of adversaries because I've been told that you know,
Russia and China have got similar things, so it's kind
of like, that's fine.
Speaker 3: You know, they've all got kind of like similar things
that they're working with. The only sensitive thing would be
how far you've gotten reverse engineering in this technology. That's
the only sensitive thing. So you may not go as
far as to say, look, this is what we've managed
to do, and this is how we've managed to exploit
this technology. But you could basically say, yes, we have
this and yeah. I think one of my sources basically
said you could come.
Speaker 6: Up with like a nuclear regularatory commission kind of like
models there in terms of controlling access to the craft
and just deal with it like you would like a nuclear.
Speaker 3: Program, which I think is very really interesting. And then
in terms of your your question in terms of crashes,
So from what I understand, there are dog fights between
different factions of non humans and some of the crashes
are due to that them shooting each other other. Stuff
is being seen in space in orbit, and the craft
in space which basically are being shot in space, shut
down in space, if you can say, are being deorbited
and brought back to Earth. But a lot of from
my understanding, a lot of these vehicles are coming from
archaeological excavations or from cage systems. That's where a lot
of these are coming from, rather than kind of like crashes.
And then in terms of the crashes, in terms of
rosso I've also been told as well that what crash
there was actually two human made craft reverse engineered from
non human craft, stemming from the alleged Magenta crash in
nineteen thirty three. So what happened was that the Italians
and Nazis were working on their program and during World
War two, from what I've been told is that the
Nazis were working on stuff in Spain, as I say
to country, and I've got a friend actually who lives
in the area Marbeo in southern Spain. There was a
lot of stuff being tested there. And basically the story
is is that that craft that the Germans and the
Italians were working on got transferred to argent after the war,
and the Allies meanwhile, we'll work on their own program
once they captured rupt and they started kind of like
working on it in right Patterson. And what happened was
it was up in the sky and had a dogfight
with the the Argentine craft and Apparently the things on
board were kind of like biological curve like clones and
the Nazis, if you're going to believe this story, which
is what I be told, the natsers kind of like
main contact with like basically like a faction of Nordic
Aliens or something like that, and that to pilot their craft,
they were using these curve by clones and they helped
you know, the Germans and the Americans. So the bodies
on board with like clones. I know, this is so
far out here, this story is, but I mean I
reported it, but yeah, it's really interesting because you hear
Tom Dilologis basically say that he believes that the thing
that crashed at Roswell was Nazi from Argentina. So yeah,
it's it's interesting. So I don't know how that story
way age. I thought i'd get that out there because
it was interesting. I think that's probably you know, part
of the secrecy of why it's been so secret for
so long is because this is all wrapped up potentially
in kind of like Nazis and what they were doing
during the war, and it was transferred to America.
Speaker 1: Well that's very interesting. I think of like the Virginia
case that James Fox did a lot of work on,
and I was at the Press Club recently when he
had that event there. But I think of that case
in particular when you know, there was a lot of
witnesses and I think also credible witnesses. The doctor there
that finally came forward, he didn't talk about it for
you know, thirty somebody and then finally said I was there,
and you know, he recently had our heart attack.
Speaker 2: He didn't want.
Speaker 1: To go out without telling, you know, his side of
what supposedly really happened. I think he's sincere. He didn't
make any money on this. He you know, he he's
emotional about it and all that. The bottom line is
that I'm trying to get to a point, and that
is you know, that was also a crash. You know,
beings were seen later in the village and around, but
that crash, it seemed like instantly the military showed up.
And there's so many crashes you hear about. The military
seems to show up almost.
Speaker 2: Like they're tracking something.
Speaker 1: And then the Americans show up all over the world.
You know, someone without any insignia, someone with American weapons,
with a regular American accent, you know, and Jonathan Wygan
thought they were from the Duh Department of Energy, and
that would almost make sense. And I just wonder what
your thoughts on that general topic would are.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I think when we're talking in South America,
we were talking about kind of cover there potentially to
do with kind of counter drug missions. So, you know,
before the interview were talking Bridge Denial for instance, which
is a program over South America to stop the the
drug the drug planes from smuggling drugs over which is
tied up with the Jonathan Wagent story as well, because
the the operation that he was part of was part
of that overall program and overall program led to a
civilian craft being shot down by the Peruvian Air Force
working with the CIA which cause a big controversy, and
there was a report that came out from CIAIG which
actually identified other instances were not enough diligence is taken
before they actually shot something down. I think from understanding
that one of the incidents happened on the exact month
and year where Jonathan said, you know, he had his experience,
So I think that's really interesting and I think as
well that you know, I've reported recently that from my understanding,
James Clapper and Stephanie O'Sullivan when they were working in
od and I during the Obama administration, they had previously
been working on programs to shoot down UFOs and retrieve them,
and they took those programs with them within the Office
of the Director of National Intelligence. So and that that
information has come to me from multiple sources that step
the gas out of the th and James Clapper were
part of this kinectic slash retrieval program of your phase.
Speaker 2: Now, wasn't he an age of disclosure?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well that's that's something else. Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, that's so baffling as far as you know,
the retrievals.
Speaker 2: And you know, a lot of.
Speaker 1: Times people will say, well, you know, if you gave
someone an iPhone back, you know, two hundred years ago,
they wouldn't be able to do anything with it. They
wouldn't be able to reverse engineer it. Is that where
we are, you know, I mean, I would think that
the technology would be just so alien. Yeah, I know,
it's kind of a punt, but so alien to us
how we could ever figure out how to you know,
get into something and figure out what makes a tick?
Speaker 3: Yeah, there there are different perspectives on this, and I
think when we're when we're looking at it, you have
to think what side of the story we are we getting,
you know. So these are just kind of like general
questions I like to ask, because we're kind of getting
scope from the intelligence world and from the military world
in terms of what's been happening with the reverse engineering
and the retrievals. But do we really have a lot
of eyes in relation to what's happened within the d OE,
the Department of Energy. I don't know. So this is
the thing, like, so when people say we can't really
understand these craft, this these physics and beyond our understanding
for now or whatever, you know, are we only getting
that from a certain viewpoint? Are we only getting this from,
you know, the people who are working on the material
side of it, you know, from the Department of War
for example, or are we only getting it from the
people who are kind of like in the intelligence world,
you know, and they're trying to find out motives origin
stuff like that, capabilities. I don't think we've really access
in terms of whistleblowers from the DOE who have kind
of come out basically kind of going into the physics
model that they think these craft come from, and you know,
the energy systems and stuff like that. I think that's
what's really really interesting, and I don't think we've really
within the UFO community had enough exposure to that. And
because of that, it's difficult to say as well, how
much this technology has been exploited. You get different accounts.
You get some people, as they said, we've not really
made much progress because we don't re understand it. We've
made some progress, you know, apparently there is like a
TR THREEB type thing that's going around and it could
be a drone, could be could have people on board,
but apparently that is a thing and it's an I
R kind of like capable vehicle. But then you've got
other people basically saying, actually, you know, we've got ships
out in space going to other solar systems and stuff.
So it's very difficult to understand. But then again, it's
just from where the whistleblowers are coming from. You know,
are they coming from the DOE, Are they coming from
the DOW, which part of the DOW? Are they coming
from the IC? Okay, which part of the IC? So
you have to as a journalist like or research to
just try to see if you could put the puzzle together.
Speaker 1: Right, Great, So I'd like to shift gears a little
bit because I know we spoke just before and you
have looked into this, the missing.
Speaker 2: McClelland mc how do you say his.
Speaker 3: Last name, mill mccats lines, Yeah.
Speaker 2: The Castland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, I mean, and this again we're recording
here on Saturday. Who knows, you know, they may find him,
but all of a sudden he becomes missing. And can
you talk a little bit what you know about him
in particular?
Speaker 3: Yeah. So he was the former commander of the Air
Force Research Laboratory. He was kind of like one of
the way guys we've been right, Patterson, And he was
an advisor to Tom DeLonge. Oh yes, his UFO efforts
the General And I believe that he basically from my
understanding for I mean toal he basically admitted, yes, you know,
we've got the Roswell craft. This is what happened. I
think he gave him the Argentina story perhaps as well,
and he gave it all this insight and he helped
him put together his advisory team. So he was like
he basically he was in the center of all this,
and you know this has been proven by emails that
it was leaked as part of the death of emails.
His wife is basically confirmed that he worked for Launch
Now as well. So I mean, this is a guy.
I mean, I know that he retired thirteen years ago,
and his wife has basically said, oh, it's nothing you know,
a foreign intelligence service or something like that might need
from him because he retired thirteen years ago. I mean,
come on, this guy. America protects its secrets very very well,
and even if he retired thirteen years ago, he was
likely read into stuff and he knows stuff that a
foreign intelligent service would love to know. So the story
is basically that he went missing. I think Friday may
have been And what happens is that he went missing
and he didn't have his He didn't take his phone
with him, didn't take.
Speaker 2: Care of that. That's a really unusual not to take
his phone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, he isn't Avid, because I've been looking at
his Facebook all the time actually kind of like piecing
together who he is. And he loves hiking. You often
see him climbing mountains or going up into the hills
and stuff. That's what he lives or basically loves being
on events and stuff, and so, I mean he's very
very good. He knows the area very very well. There
were rumors that he had dementia because a RO alert
had been put out, but from my understanding what his
wife said, he didn't have dementia. He was very very sound.
He was still very very sharp. And other people that
know him have told me that his wife was a
doctor's appointment and that's when he went missing. So yeah,
it's a complete mystery. They've got everyone looking for him.
They got drones, they've got the county sheriff that, they've
got Kirtland Air Force Base assistant assisting, they got the
US Air Force assisting, the Office of Investigations, and they
just he's completely missing. And it's a complete mystery of
what's happened. Why would he just go alone without his foe,
without his watch and just leave it just like none
of it really adds. I believe that his wife does
not think it was a kidnapping either, but how do
you know? And it's interesting cases as well, because how
does the United State Because this isn't just a missing
person's case, it's someone of high value, who knows a
lot of the secrets basically, who has got How does
the United States handle something like that? Is it seen
as a national security situation as well? I would love
to ask that, Actually I should ask the FBI that
do you see his disappearance as a national security situation?
And of you know, alarm in terms of that. So
it's a very fascinating case. And you know, first and foremost,
I just like he's found me safe.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, me too, and by the time this airs,
that's a possibility. So another I just looked at an
article you just published, which I did like a little
show on it myself, and that is the h you know,
Obama talking uh and kind of joking, but it kind
of went viral, so you walked it back and uh
that that was interesting. And but but this is a
really nice article that you you wrote on the fourth
and uh, you know, and kind of the fallout and
then the reaction and where it could lead, you know,
what what Trump may do with it all and all
of that. But what is your overall, uh general feeling
do you think?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: You know, I remember I think it was Bill Clinton
that you know one wanted to get the UFO files released,
or maybe it was Jimmy Carter one of them, and
they always seem to hit roadblocks no matter what has said.
And so how do you think this is going to
end up?
Speaker 3: I have not.
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, I don't watch the news.
I avoid watching the news in general, so I really
don't know if there's any movement forward. And that's kind
of your job watching the news. So have you seen
any forward movement on anything?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes I have. So people who are working on
this right now are very very villish represented persons, very
very bullish on this. He's quite happy with the progress.
Jeremy Corbell, who I speak to, I believe he said
that the Pentagon of the White House, he's been in
contact with like communications people from there and they're wondering
how they get their message straight about this, and he's
basically said, you need to be radically honest and just
provide the truth. And they've got a bunch of different
agencies at the moment, all working on this. I think
Burgerson said that, well, it's actually public acknowledge that the
All Domain and Nomni Resolution Office is involved, but there's
also places above the or Domain and Nomnly Resolution Office
which involved as well. So a lot of people are
quite skeptical that it's involvement, but yeah, it's all in
hand from my understanding. And meanwhile, the White House has
given an approval for Representative Burlerson to go to places
where UAP materials allegedly stored, and I reported that I
believe it was last week. Represented Bernison did visit Protuction
River in Maryland, which is an AWARE station and that's
where material was supposed to be delivered, let's say, for
Bob Bigelow for the transfer that was going to take
place between Buckied Martin and Biggeler. And there was a
hangar that was built at that facility and a crane
and a private runway as well for Bob Biggelers that
he could discreetly get there and get out. And I
believe that Representative Burson went to that facility from Minus Downing.
He did see a hangar, he saw a crane, and
he saw the runway as well that Biggler was used.
And basically for him, that kind of like supports the
story that actually there is something to this narrative. I've
seen something physical now that suggests that the infrastructure was
there to facilitate something. But I mean there might be
some more to that story. I still need to check
with people to see all the details of correct and stuff.
You know, was that the exact facility for instance, that
was built for this purpose. But yeah, he got approval
from the White House to do that. I think he
should go back to pact Tuxent River as well. I've
been told that there is actually a non human craft
at the at the base that has been there for
a number of years now, in addition to the UAP
materials that we're going to be part of the transfer
between Lockheed and bige Ay. But yeah, and if you
look at the base as well, you know, Lucky Skug
Works does have a presence there, so it kind of
like all makes sense from that perspective.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a you mentioned like Lockheed and Bigelow,
these are these are entities that are outside of you know,
government oversight. So in a way, I'm kind of surprised
that he was given access to, you know, to this
whole thing, or is going to be given access because
that's been probably the place to hide this type of thing.
Is you know, a private entity, so it can't be accessed. Yeah,
I remember I asked up. I interviewed Christopher Mellan all
the way back in twenty fifteen, and he said to
me at that time that if a president wants to
know anything, he will have.
Speaker 2: The right to know. They can't keep it from him.
Speaker 1: But the only way they could keep it from him
is if it was outside of what they had a
need to know. You know that that type of situation.
So you know, again it's kind of like stovepiping getting
it out of reach into private entities.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know how far we'll get.
Speaker 3: Well, well, the thing is, the big thing is is
that from an standing say, you know, we only destroyed secrecy,
you know, started treatment an Eisenhower. So if you're a president,
you know part of this initial cover up, you want
to make sure that there is an oversight. We've be
in the White House still believe that their oversight within
the White House was created Let's say in certain offices,
you know, let's say National Security Council, maybe two more
offices as well, let's say, and that remains, and that
there are people serving within those offices who do know
the truth, that have oversight of the UAP programs that
are career bureaucrats and they do not change with administrations.
This is that that's a very very big deal. And
unfortunately I'm not allowed to talk more about that, but
I can say that, you know, there's a good reason
for that. You know, Gary Nolan has basically come out
and said that someone from the White House has threatened
him with death. So I'm not gonna I'm not I'm
not going to go there. And also we've heard story
about Mark and Dreison as well. You know, one of
Elon's friends who's an advocate for artificial intelligence, he had
a meeting with someone from the White House as well,
and they told him that, you know, we can put
AI back in the box. We managed to classify physics,
and we can do exactly the same thing with artificial indergence.
So I think there is a lot of power in
the White House that is hidden President Trump, that bureaucrats
who have insignificant titles, let's say, are burrowed in offices
that no one really pays much attention to, but they're
very very powerful in practice.
Speaker 1: Say, I've always wondered how there could be like a
generational legacy of something and to say, if there is
some type of cover up.
Speaker 2: How that would like to say, we had.
Speaker 1: Roswell in a couple of boxes somewhere and you know,
and it's known about and it's cataloged and whatever. I'm
just how does that move forward, like in a generational legacy,
And you know, I mean it's just it's I don't
really understand how that works. You know, we're talking seventy
years you know, yeah for something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean from understanding, there was something like
an MG twelve. We had all these powerful people just
kind of like coordinating the reaction the secrecy. And since
then it's kind of like devolved into little fieftings and
stuff and it's not as well organized now but just continues.
And yeah, like a Right Pats And Air Force space.
I remember talking to someone who had a family member
working now. It's like they were telling me that, yeah,
it's basically an open secret like at right Patterson Air
Force basically working at there, that there there are aliens there,
you know, dead bodies like in the basement. Like everyone
just kind of like knows that Right Patterson Air Force bace.
It's like, yeah, we just know it's part of our
everyday life, you know. So yeah, it's it's an interesting
it's very very interesting to see how it all works
and how it all comes together. You know.
Speaker 1: You know, I've told this story a couple of times,
but I think it's interesting. I think you'll find it interesting.
In South Carolina, I'm part of a strummers group, guitar group,
and there's a gentleman there that's long retired and he
used to work as a as a civilian at right
pat and he said that he used to have water
cooler talk with all the Project Blue Book guys, you know.
And then he said, and then it closed down and
they were still there, he said, like into the first
part of the seventies.
Speaker 2: He said, same guys. You know, they were still there.
Speaker 1: They were still talking UFOs, you know, which I think
is really bizarre.
Speaker 3: It's brilliant. I would love to be in these places
just see the conversations that they have. And you know,
we're talking about right pass there space. And I think
one of the things that a lot of people could
like get into is IDEAH forces covering is up. The
Air Force is covering up. Yeah, of course it is.
But also the Navy has its certain programs as well.
The Army does remember we make about cave systems and
stuff like that. I'm going to go into the cave
system be part of the Army, let's say, and the
DOE as well. Thee is like a really really big
one and kind of like look at the national labs
aspects and universities at work those national labs. That's really
interesting relationship as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, it's funny how the Navy seems
to have the most transparency and you know, the Armed
Force is not the Air Force when it comes to
the United States. The Navy is like, yeah, I mean
the reporting is okay, and you know, on and on
and on.
Speaker 2: You don't hear anything from the Air Force really to
speak of.
Speaker 3: So the Navy. So from I understanding, you know, the
Navy was leading with disclosure.
Speaker 7: If you look at the if you look at the
medias that released from the Pentagon when it was officially
confirmed and they were released, who released that it was
now there which is based at Patucks River.
Speaker 8: Uh so is now coincidences apparently where they have the
UFO as well, And that's also where Salvator PaaS was
based and he came up with these crazy patents or patents,
isn't that a coincidence, you know that it all came
from this particular place, so that that that's something that's
really really interested me.
Speaker 3: I think with the US Air Force, the most interesting
response I got was James Crapper. James Capper is always
the interesting response I get from skeptics. Es say US
Air Force could not deny his allegations from the Age
of Disclosure. They just it couldn't. They couldn't deny it
basically that there was like a UFO program above Area
fifty one in the nineties. So that's really interesting. And
when I had a conversation with former ARROW Deputy director
and acting director Tim Phillips, I tell you it was
it was very, very interesting because he seemed unaware of
what Clapper had said in the Agent Disclosed, because he
was always saying, Oh, it's circular reporting. Oh you can't
believe these whistle blowers, blah blah blah. And they said, oh,
did you know James Clapper, because I know that Tim
used to work with an O. D and I, And
he said, oh, I love James Clapperho he's a brilliant professional.
He's some night admire And he was saying that when
he was no d and I he used to meet
with Clapper I think once a week, and he was
just a brilliant person and he loves the guy. I
was like, okay, sir, Clapper is basically said that there's
a UFO program you're in report with Arrow basically said
that was at the UFO program from Project from blue
Book until you know all sap ate it. So like
if he was to tell you there was a program
that was seeing stuff over every fifty one, would you
say that he was a BS person as well? Like
all these are with the global claiming up. Well, I'd
have to talk to James about that, he said. I
was like, yeah, please do. If you're still in contact
with me, get in touch. And I said, please let
me know how that conversation goes to him. I'm very
very interested to know. So I think that's really really
interesting and it also tells me as well that James
Clapper was not one of the people that talked to
the Arrow. I think that Clapper is a key person
to unlocking this. He has been in Washington, from my understanding,
talking to people. I don't know who he's spoken to,
but I think you know, no matter what your political persuasion.
He is someone that carries a lot of weight, you know.
And and interestingly as well, I bought his biography when
I did an article about him and Stephanie yourself. Interestingly,
he used to work with Bobby ray in Them and
he James Clapper loves Bobby ray in Them because I
think in the early eighties slash late seventies, Clapper was
a US Air Force NSA liaison, so he worked between
Bobby ray Inland and another guy who was very, very
senior with a US Air Force. So that's how he
got that relationship. Going. Yeah, this really Interestingly, you kind
of piece all these things together.
Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like in some ways, I don't
know what your moral feeling is, but in some ways
I feel like we're really moving forward.
Speaker 2: There's really going to be something happened. You know. Trump
just said, okay, we're going to release everything. There's a
lot of interest in it, you know. But I've seen.
Speaker 1: This type of thing before, and it seems like two
steps forward, one step back, you know. I'm just wondering,
how do you feel. Do you feel like there's potential
like of actually being quote unquote disclosure.
Speaker 3: Let's say let's look at it like this. Let's say
the whole disclosure movement we've seen at the moment may
be a reaction to a potential breakthrough that has happened
with the Chinese in relation to UFO technology. Let's say
that you know Luisondoree, people like that who came out,
we were kind of like part of the reason why
they were trying to get this out is because they
had seen signs that the Chinese were outpacing the US,
and that there were signs that there was breakthrough technology.
It was like, gosh, the Chinese can work at this scale.
We don't have anything near close to this. We need
to open these things up. And let's say that Matthew
Libelsburg was correct in terms of these apparent drones being
of Chinese technology, and it's basically game over if we've
got these pressures. If that is real, if we're talking
about this kind of situation, I think that the US
has no choice. They would need to kind of like
have They would have to have a system whereby you
know more what civilians, scientists and engineers could have access
to these to these craft. And I think the US
basically has to compleane saying that, yes, we are being
visited by what we think is a non human intelligence,
and we have captured some craft, and we're going to
start a program to open these up for wider research,
to ensure that the US stays at the cutting edge
of technology and that we that we continue to have
dominance in terms of military tech. I think they have
to say that, and I think we've come close already.
I mean I would have been in your hand off,
like about three years ago if anyone have basically said that,
you know, from the US government had said that we've
seen forty to fifty craft that we can't explain that
seemed to be beyond any known human system. We're seeing
stuff in space, we're seeing stuff in the air, and
we can't. We have the best scientists, best people looking
at this. They can't explain the stuff that we're seeing.
We're talking about instantaneous acceleration and signature management and all
these things. I would have been in your hand off that, well,
that is exactly what Tim Fidit's former acting head of
the eldermin No Nominee Resolution Office, told me two weeks ago.
So we've got that already. So why can't the President
now say.
Speaker 1: This right right, Well, it will be it will be
interesting to see where this goes. But you know I've
said on this show before also that you know, we
have such a political divide in this country that no
matter who is president, are they going to believe you know,
if a president announces it, whether it's a Democrat or
Republican or whoever's in office, whenever it's announced, how many
people are going to believe it's real or how many
people are just going to ignore it and just say
it's bs and move on, you know what I mean.
I guess if we actually could see the technology, and
we could see it, you know, publicly, then that would
be what we would need.
Speaker 2: I'm guessing.
Speaker 3: Well, look, I think in the US, this is one
of the rare topics which brings Democrats and Republicans together. Firstly,
you know, Barack Obama and Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Republicans
and Democrats. This is the thing that brings more together.
So you would have much argument in regards to that,
and what is available to Donald Trump in terms of
intelligence can also be made. It could also be gained
by Barack Obama. Another former presence still receive briefings, so
they could back Donald Trump up, and like you said,
you know, I think I think that might be a
key driver. You know, I think you have to I
think you have to provide access to these craft. You
have to say that we've recovered tic TACs as part
of archaeological NISUS potentially and all these other crevic craft sources,
and you know, we need to make this a national
kind of like effort to understand what we're dealing with here.
I think they need to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do agree.
Speaker 1: You know, you made a good point because I've actually
said that myself. It is very bipartisan.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I was there during the hearings the first two public
hearings in Washington, d C. I was in the room
with David Grush, you know, was there and all that,
and I saw, you know, Democrats and Republicans that normally,
you know, fight against each other basically like asking really
really good questions, and you know, all seem seeming to
be on the same side. So that was, Yeah, that
made me feel like there was hope and I kind
of forgot all about that, you know when I pose
that question, because I do agree there is it is
a bipartisan situation.
Speaker 2: So if you would go ahead.
Speaker 1: And just you know, plug your Liberation Times and you
know your articles and all that, and go ahead.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, just firsty, thank you so much for
having on. I've really enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker 2: Yes, me too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find my articles on Liberation Times dot com.
You can find me on x you know my hand
was Chris uk shop without on the end, and you
can also see my work and daily mail as well.
So yeah, just yes, if you read my articles, thank
you so much. If you're supporter, thank you so much.
And yeah, let's we're on this discovery mission together basically,
and yeah.
Speaker 1: That's right, and I know it's late there for you,
so thank you so much for coming on. And it's
been a real pleasurable conversation.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Likewise, thank you Martin take care of himself
Speaker 1: You too, Yes, all right, all right, So next Tuesday
we have Jeff Silver on and thank you all for
hanging in and remember to keep your eyes to