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<v Speaker 1>Hey everyone, I'm Nicole and I'm Ben, and you're listening

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<v Speaker 1>to Wicked and Grim, a.

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<v Speaker 2>True crime podcast. Good morning.

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<v Speaker 1>The following podcast material for audience listener question Episode five.

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<v Speaker 2>Here we go, Episode five, Ready to roll. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>I asked me at the end.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm hoping I can sit through all this because my

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<v Speaker 1>back is like killing me today. I don't know why.

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<v Speaker 2>Old.

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<v Speaker 1>I know my birthdays next month? You better be getting

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<v Speaker 1>me something cool. Thirty three.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually already have it.

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<v Speaker 1>You do, alright?

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<v Speaker 2>You three isn't really a big deal though, it's not like.

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<v Speaker 1>A well no, it's not a big deal.

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<v Speaker 2>But every birthday is a mile stone. Really you need

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<v Speaker 2>to think that way.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's another year in this planet.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, birthday is not promised to anyone.

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<v Speaker 1>No, well, tomorrow's not promised to anyone. The end of

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<v Speaker 1>this podcast isn't promised to you. Dun't n I could

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<v Speaker 1>like unplug it and that's the end of the series.

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<v Speaker 1>Just end it for people. It's all gone.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how we'll wrap it up. When we're done with this. Yep,

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<v Speaker 2>there now you know it.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll look at Kiwi.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, we have our Maskot joining us, our.

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<v Speaker 1>Black Cat qis just all snuggled up in the center

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<v Speaker 1>of one of the dog peds.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the life.

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<v Speaker 1>I wish I could just lay around all day like

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<v Speaker 1>a cat.

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<v Speaker 2>I really wish that I could just have one day

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<v Speaker 2>where I did that.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Even weekends, we're just non stop, go go go.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been feeling the need for that. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>coming up. I'm going to just have a day where

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just bumping a log.

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<v Speaker 1>Good call, Good call. Oh actually, I completely forgot about

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<v Speaker 1>this until just this moment. Should we maybe tell them

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<v Speaker 1>that we're going to be doing a little giveaway things soon?

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<v Speaker 1>Hopefully maybe almost, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, we don't know how long it's going to be though,

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<v Speaker 2>but we are. We have a giveaway in the works.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we do, because like we've had such awesome support

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<v Speaker 1>from you guys so far that we're like, we need

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<v Speaker 1>to give back to you just to say thank you

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<v Speaker 1>for how welcoming you've been for us starting this podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>We need to our peeps.

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<v Speaker 1>But we got to get the thing to give away first.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's super cool and I think you're gonna want it,

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<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure, I want it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, maybe we should get some for us.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but we're moving to a tiny home.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I forgot about that aspect because we already have

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<v Speaker 1>those things. But we're not going to say what it is.

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<v Speaker 1>We're not going to our we no, okay, we will

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<v Speaker 1>say that we're going to be working with a local

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<v Speaker 1>artisan to get it done up. How's that?

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<v Speaker 2>And she's very popular and they're super cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you said she So now it's like narrowed down.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you just assume her gender? Their gender? Did you

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<v Speaker 1>assume their I just assumed her gender too by saying that,

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<v Speaker 1>technically technically now she is an amazing artist. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to be pretty cool put together.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm actually stokedaked.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you stoked for this episode?

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<v Speaker 2>I am.

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<v Speaker 1>The research is done.

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<v Speaker 2>The research is done in the nick of time, not

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<v Speaker 2>just but it was actually like super hard. I was

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<v Speaker 2>expecting the research for this one to be much easier

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<v Speaker 2>than the last one.

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<v Speaker 1>And why is that?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, it's an old case, so it's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>there's probably not very much detail out there, like how

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<v Speaker 2>many sources can there be? Blah blah blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but there's very limited to sources, but like every single

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<v Speaker 2>one of them was different.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, how did you figure out what the case is

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<v Speaker 1>basically by.

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<v Speaker 2>Just reading as much as I could, and then if

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<v Speaker 2>I ever came across the same info twice, then I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, Okay, this seems like more legit. Like I

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<v Speaker 2>just had to do a lot more reading and a

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<v Speaker 2>lot more because before my last case, it was just

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<v Speaker 2>news stories and it was a recent case, so everything

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<v Speaker 2>was up to date, pretty black and white, and this

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<v Speaker 2>just wasn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's kind of the way the case.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like if the case was super easy for

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<v Speaker 2>me to research, maybe it wouldn't be very fun to

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<v Speaker 2>listen to.

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<v Speaker 1>That's true. True. So when you say it's a super

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<v Speaker 1>old case, how old are we talking.

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<v Speaker 2>Here, Well, it's a historic case. A Canadian, another Canadian,

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<v Speaker 2>amazing Canadian.

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<v Speaker 1>We should delve into some other country cases here soon

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<v Speaker 1>because we're like sticking very close to home marks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I always said I would, so you do.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well I do know. The next case is it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to involve a Canadian but in a different country.

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<v Speaker 2>So this the murder itself happened in the eighteen eighties,

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen eighty oh, so it's quite old.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is this is our oldest case yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's pretty intense. My job definitely like dropped a

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<v Speaker 2>few times as I was doing my research.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm ready for my job to be dropped to

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<v Speaker 1>the floor of this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, you're ready, So I'm ready. It's the story of

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<v Speaker 2>the Donnelly family massacre, massacreing the.

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<v Speaker 1>Donnelly family manicure. They all went out and got many

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<v Speaker 1>petties together.

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<v Speaker 2>It's fantastic.

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<v Speaker 1>No the donal that name rings a bell. That name

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<v Speaker 1>rings a bell.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a very like famous Canadian case. Okay, so I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna dive in here.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's hear it. Start start us off.

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<v Speaker 2>So the story starts in Tippery Island, Ireland, during the

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<v Speaker 2>potato fathom fathom.

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<v Speaker 1>They can't fathom how many potatoes.

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<v Speaker 2>Are on and might they say that wrong? I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what fathom that famine.

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<v Speaker 1>Famine, the potato famine.

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<v Speaker 2>Only bring this, Okay. I have to get my craft

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<v Speaker 2>together here, like the potato.

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<v Speaker 1>Famine famine, like that they're starving.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a boat to dive into. Okay, you know what

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<v Speaker 2>that is.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't fathom what that would be my gosh.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay. So the potato famine began in eighteen forty

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<v Speaker 2>five when a fungus like orgasm. Okay, I gotta.

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<v Speaker 1>No, We're in there. That's staying in.

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<v Speaker 2>Orgasm organism. Holy okay, I love this.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my jaws dropping to the floor just like you said.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, So this fun is like organism spread rapidly

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<v Speaker 2>through the potato crops. My face is probably read. It

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<v Speaker 2>is ruining up to one half of the crops the

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<v Speaker 2>first year and about three quarters of the crops over

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<v Speaker 2>the next seven.

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<v Speaker 1>Years because of one orgasm.

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<v Speaker 2>He so, roughly one million people died of starvation. This

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<v Speaker 2>is a big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>It is like you just brushed off what I said,

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<v Speaker 1>just ignored.

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<v Speaker 2>Me, because we're moving on.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, moving on with that least.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you able to with another million being forced to leave?

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<v Speaker 2>So it was a situation where you either stayed and

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<v Speaker 2>starved or you left.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So the Donelly's decided to seek.

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<v Speaker 1>A better life, and I'm assuming they came to Canada.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, yes, yes they did so, James, Donnelly, Johanna and

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<v Speaker 2>Donnelly and their son at the time, James Junior, immigrated

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<v Speaker 2>to Canada. Arriving in Canada, they soon welcomed another son

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<v Speaker 2>named Will and they settled in the township I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to have trouble pronouncing things tonight. The township of Budolph,

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<v Speaker 2>near the town of Luken, just north of London, Ontario.

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<v Speaker 1>Budolf Lucan, the two hard ones.

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<v Speaker 2>They didn't have a lot, but they did have a

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<v Speaker 2>very strong work ethic and began building their homestead. And

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<v Speaker 2>this is interesting. So they laid claim to one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>acres which was basically just land that they decided they

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<v Speaker 2>liked and they picked out and were essentially squatters on.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm like, I do know that it was a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit easier to claim land back in those days.

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<v Speaker 2>That was like more of it was a common practice.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, however, approximately ten years later this would cause some

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<v Speaker 2>problems which I just feel like that would cause problems.

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<v Speaker 2>The land they were Scott squatting on had unknownly been

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<v Speaker 2>sold or least that was like not really something that

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<v Speaker 2>I could totally get in the research. It was either

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<v Speaker 2>sold or at least to him, I don't know, okay, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>to Patrick Farrell, And upon his arrival he was obviously

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<v Speaker 2>very surprised to find the Donnaley's on his land. Could

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<v Speaker 2>you imagine, Hey, yeah, you're.

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<v Speaker 1>Just like, oh, I got this new place. He's a

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<v Speaker 1>new acreage, and then there's just people living in there.

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<v Speaker 2>Like Stoke to like see your new investment, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>people there.

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<v Speaker 1>Like WTF, get off my property, No kidding, off my

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<v Speaker 1>front lawn, you young kids.

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<v Speaker 2>So Patrick took the Donnelly's to court, where the judge,

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<v Speaker 2>recognizing all the improvements to Donnelly's made to the land,

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<v Speaker 2>actually split the land. So fifty acres went to Patrick

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty acres went to the Donnelly's. This outcome to

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<v Speaker 2>nots it well, and hard feelings obviously remained.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I that's a tough spot.

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<v Speaker 2>Though they had, like I mean, they were there for

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<v Speaker 2>ten years. They had a lot of work being put

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<v Speaker 2>into this. Yeah, James did a lot of work. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a hard working man.

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<v Speaker 1>Landscaping, farming, all that sort of stuff, building their house,

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<v Speaker 1>building fences, whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it got split in half. In June of

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen fifty seven, Patrick's and James found themselves face to

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<v Speaker 2>face at a barn raising bee. A what a barn

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<v Speaker 2>raising bee?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I know what barn raising is, but what do

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<v Speaker 1>you mean a barn raising?

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like a work bee. So they used to

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<v Speaker 2>do this back in the day where if there was

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<v Speaker 2>big projects they need to be done, like a barn

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<v Speaker 2>being made. Yeah, they would have a work bee where

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of the locals would come together and they

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<v Speaker 2>would be provided hard liquor in return for their work.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like Ben would be there, Yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Would, Jimmy Booze, I'll do almost anything, almost anything. Though

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<v Speaker 1>I knew what a barn rays was, but I didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never heard of the b part.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, barn raised in work bee. I don't know. I

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<v Speaker 2>just joined the two. Okay, So drinking was obviously involved.

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<v Speaker 2>Words were exchange and Patrick and James got into an argument.

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<v Speaker 1>Fisty cuffs come in.

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<v Speaker 2>Which ultimately ended with Patrick suffering a blow to the

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<v Speaker 2>head from a handspike thrown by James. Oh it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>kill him instantly, but he did die from his injuries

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<v Speaker 2>shortly after, and a warrant was issued for really rest.

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<v Speaker 1>That's brutal that he died from that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think he would.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you mean by a hand spike? Like I

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<v Speaker 1>just thought, like a large nail, Like, what's a.

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<v Speaker 2>HANDSPI didn't research what a handspike was.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I was thinking like like like a large nail,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe a railway spike or something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>The metal hitting in your head. It depends if it

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<v Speaker 2>like jabbed in or what.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I can't imagine it would jab in.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe he's a good shot.

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<v Speaker 1>Just ninja throwing star that shit.

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<v Speaker 2>So after the incident, James went into hiding. He successfully

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<v Speaker 2>hid for some time. It was reported for upwards of

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<v Speaker 2>two years. Oh however, in this time, and this was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of funny, there were reports of a new addition

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<v Speaker 2>to the Donnelly farm. A large muscular labor was spotted

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<v Speaker 2>in the field wearing women's clothes. And also Johanna grew

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<v Speaker 2>visually pregnant, so he wasn't far.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, that is funny, no kidding, large muscular figure

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<v Speaker 1>wearing women's.

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<v Speaker 2>Clothing doing a farm labor. I love it. I love

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<v Speaker 2>that visual.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>James did eventually turn himself in, saying that Patrick had

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<v Speaker 2>provoked him and started the fight.

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<v Speaker 1>It on it it sounds like it's like manslaughter, like

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<v Speaker 1>he got mad and just threw something Adham and ended

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<v Speaker 1>up killing him. I mean, depending on what a handspike is,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe it's a freaking like a pickaxe or something, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like I don't think he went to that work

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<v Speaker 2>being tending, right, He probably don't even know he was

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<v Speaker 2>going to be there. He was sentenced to be hung,

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<v Speaker 2>hanged hung, I don't know how you say that, hanged.

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<v Speaker 2>But Johanna couldn't have this, so she put in a

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<v Speaker 2>petition for mercy, which lowered James's sentenced to seven years.

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<v Speaker 1>Well that's that's a drastic change. It's like either you

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<v Speaker 1>die or you sit here for seven years.

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<v Speaker 2>And I love the power that like a wife could

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<v Speaker 2>have of that MAIDA good for her even think that

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<v Speaker 2>would be listened to nowadays. But something that I hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned yet is James and Johannah have actually had eight

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<v Speaker 2>children at this point, seven boys and one girl.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you guys can't hear this like stuff, we

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<v Speaker 1>have a dog chewing on a bone, a cat climbing

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<v Speaker 1>all over me right now. It's like it's a disastrike.

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<v Speaker 2>Lock the animals up while we're doing a singation. I

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<v Speaker 2>think so. So Johanna, now head of the family, needed

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<v Speaker 2>to toughen up her boys as there was obviously like

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of work to do. Yeah, and this is

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<v Speaker 2>apparently just what she did, because when James was released

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<v Speaker 2>from prison in eighteen sixty six. His boys were now

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<v Speaker 2>men and tough as new.

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<v Speaker 1>Were they wearing dresses out in the field.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't think that got passed on to them.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>They were not afraid to throw a punch and had

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<v Speaker 2>many of their own run ins with the law, and

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<v Speaker 2>I mean many from various accounts of assault, both verbally

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<v Speaker 2>and physical, arson, theft, robbery, assaulting a police officer. They honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>the Donaldi's just had a rap sheet.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a whole ass resume is with that, Like, look

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<v Speaker 1>at how.

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<v Speaker 2>Many boys there were, and like Dad's in jail.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I don't know. The whole boys we

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<v Speaker 1>boys stories kind of like it only goes so far,

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<v Speaker 1>you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, but it was and just the Donnelly boys too.

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<v Speaker 2>It was also reported that Johanna had a few run

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<v Speaker 2>ins with the law, herself involved, being Constable Carol. Huh,

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<v Speaker 2>you'll hear that name again, Constable Carol. A local saying went,

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<v Speaker 2>the farther one lives down Roman Line Road, the tougher

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<v Speaker 2>one is and the Donnalies live at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>the road.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, they're tough. I feel like that's almost foreshadowing

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<v Speaker 1>like they live at the end of the room.

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<v Speaker 2>So aside from them having a rougher reputation the land

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<v Speaker 2>dispute that I talked about at the beginning, there was

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<v Speaker 2>also political aspect to this story. The township they they

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<v Speaker 2>were in had a large Irish settler population, and the

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<v Speaker 2>politics from their homelan, of course, didn't disappear when they

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<v Speaker 2>came over here. The Donnelly's were known as Blackfeet. Assuming

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<v Speaker 2>this is all so where because in a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the research they had the title of the black Donnelly's

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<v Speaker 2>came from stems from when the Britain colonized Ireland. Blackfeet

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<v Speaker 2>were Catholic Irish who chose not to fight the English

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<v Speaker 2>or Protestants and rather live in peace, often doing business

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<v Speaker 2>and becoming friendly with them. Okay, And this was very

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<v Speaker 2>controversial choice because it was considered them not choosing a side.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I see, I see. So people are getting angry.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like you gotta you gotta stand up, you gotta

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<v Speaker 1>pick who you're gonna be with. Yeah, okay, so the

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<v Speaker 1>white most cowardly.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, because the white boys refuse to live peacefully

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<v Speaker 2>with the English and hated Blackfeet even more than the Protestants.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, okay, I could see it being considered be

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<v Speaker 1>cowardly back in that day sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So, and the township was unfortunately an equal mix

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<v Speaker 2>of these groups. Was just in the situation.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's that's all. That's a do a brew waiting

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<v Speaker 1>to uh.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't boil over at you on purpose, because it

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<v Speaker 2>isn't stuck kind of Irish. It is Irish.

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<v Speaker 1>Well there's Irish st there's stew is like all over

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<v Speaker 1>the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I thought it was kind of an Irish dish.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean maybe it's more prominent in that area, but

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<v Speaker 1>I do know that like stew and soup is like

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00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.000
<v Speaker 1>came from like every culture.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, here, I thought you were like doing something

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<v Speaker 2>well no.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I was just thinking that like tempers would have

336
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.399
<v Speaker 1>been stewing. So I said that was a stu.

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00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.720
<v Speaker 2>A time though, make jokes like that and yeah. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>Before I move on to talk about the Donnelly's stage

339
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:43.840
<v Speaker 2>coach Endeavor, which is quite.

340
00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:45.759
<v Speaker 1>Exciting stage coach en Devor, which.

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<v Speaker 2>Is quite excited exciting, I wanted to note that many

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00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:51.840
<v Speaker 2>articles I read mentioned that Donnelly's weren't the only family

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00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.919
<v Speaker 2>up to no good. Many communities in Ontario in the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteenth century dealt with numerous crimes and the bringing bringing

345
00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:08.039
<v Speaker 2>criminal criminals criminal. I can't speak bringing criminals criminals because

346
00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:13.680
<v Speaker 2>always wasn't always easy either. Many constables themselves were untrained

347
00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:19.440
<v Speaker 2>or criminals as well. And for many reasons, the courts

348
00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:24.440
<v Speaker 2>didn't or couldn't always handle reasonal punishments. Witnesses would fear testifying,

349
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:29.200
<v Speaker 2>jurys would not convict. There are just many reasons why

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00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:33.880
<v Speaker 2>the lawback then had some issues. So now in the

351
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:37.799
<v Speaker 2>in the eighteen seventies, William Donnelly started a stage coach line,

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00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.960
<v Speaker 2>which is really cool and it was a huge success entrepreneur.

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<v Speaker 2>I know they were like hard work and peepes the

354
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<v Speaker 2>but this actually got the Donnelly family more unwanted enemies

355
00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:54.440
<v Speaker 2>because they were doing really well. Of course, the Donnelly

356
00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:58.079
<v Speaker 2>success caused one of their competitors to sell their business

357
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<v Speaker 2>to Patrick Flanagan, who wanted nothing more than to see

358
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<v Speaker 2>the Donnay's fail. Of course, of course, you imagine buying

359
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.759
<v Speaker 2>a business just to like make sure your enemy fails.

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00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:11.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, well, it's not that it was an enemy,

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<v Speaker 1>but remember that one time when we were younger and you're, well,

362
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.720
<v Speaker 1>you still are, but you're obsessed with Lululemon, and I

363
00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:18.440
<v Speaker 1>was like, I should start a company and call it

364
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:21.039
<v Speaker 1>La La Lime, and I should take over.

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00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that would have gone well.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it would have been like a boom in business,

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<v Speaker 1>just saying I do think. I think it would have

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<v Speaker 1>been like amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>It could have been, I'll get all it could have been.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's copyrighted now officially, by the way, because it's

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<v Speaker 1>documented on this.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you ever see that store pop up, you

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<v Speaker 2>no Ben's bend.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>So the rival between these two began. It was extremely violent,

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00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:51.920
<v Speaker 2>with arson, fistfights and attacks on each other's animals. I

377
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.599
<v Speaker 2>hate when there's animal things. I just like, I'm an animal,

378
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:56.559
<v Speaker 2>don't affect the animals.

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00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:59.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a whole new level because it's like, okay, humans,

380
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.839
<v Speaker 1>like we can think for ourselves, we can defend ourselves.

381
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.519
<v Speaker 1>We are not always but generally putting ourselves into these

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00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:13.319
<v Speaker 1>situation where these animals are innocent. Yeah, they're just helpless bystanders.

383
00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:14.519
<v Speaker 2>They don't hurt them.

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<v Speaker 1>Not that a person can't be a helpless bystander, but

385
00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:20.799
<v Speaker 1>it's not always the case where it is always the

386
00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:22.559
<v Speaker 1>case that the animals that helpless bystander.

387
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes after the Shenanigans, the Donnelly is if they didn't

388
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.880
<v Speaker 2>already get blamed for most things, they got blamed for

389
00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:35.960
<v Speaker 2>pretty much almost every crime committed going for it sweet,

390
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.599
<v Speaker 2>though few convictions were ever secured against them, as the

391
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:46.920
<v Speaker 2>allegations were usually based on nothing they did have. I

392
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:48.839
<v Speaker 2>did want to know they did have some friends and

393
00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.960
<v Speaker 2>some alled alleys allies, allies.

394
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:57.519
<v Speaker 1>They had some alleys alleys and some orgasms that you

395
00:19:57.559 --> 00:19:58.480
<v Speaker 1>couldn't fathom.

396
00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.680
<v Speaker 2>But the majority of the township just hated the Donnellys.

397
00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha hated them, which is sad. In eighteen seventy nine,

398
00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Father John Connolly arrived at Saint Patrick's Roman Catholic Church.

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00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.759
<v Speaker 1>I got a sentence you good job, he was doing well,

400
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:18.240
<v Speaker 1>keep going.

401
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.319
<v Speaker 2>He was greeted with many stories of the Donnelly's, so

402
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.480
<v Speaker 2>decided to take action by creating a Peace Society.

403
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.039
<v Speaker 1>Okay, good for him. I like this, do you.

404
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:30.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't think you should, but.

405
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, he's he's trying to make peace between them.

406
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.839
<v Speaker 2>I guess. Member of the members of the society agreed

407
00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:41.279
<v Speaker 2>to have their home search for stolen properly. But the

408
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Donnellys apparently did not sign this pledge.

409
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:49.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so I still hung up. And why I shouldn't

410
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:52.440
<v Speaker 1>like this peace thing. It's basically a peace treaty, right,

411
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:54.559
<v Speaker 1>He's all like, we can be friends, guys.

412
00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:57.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, his tensions might have been good, but he

413
00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:00.839
<v Speaker 2>also and I don't have this in my notes, but

414
00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.440
<v Speaker 2>he also seemed like he developed an opinion of the

415
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Donnaley's from just listening to all the people without even

416
00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:08.680
<v Speaker 2>really getting to know them himself.

417
00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so maybe there was like a hidden mode of

418
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:11.599
<v Speaker 1>behind them.

419
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:14.599
<v Speaker 2>I think so, because yeah, he wanted to have like

420
00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.480
<v Speaker 2>the property search, and he was expecting that to go

421
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:19.400
<v Speaker 2>into the Donalis there would be like all the stolen

422
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:20.079
<v Speaker 2>goods and stuff.

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00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Yes, my assumption of this was that he's like,

424
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.119
<v Speaker 1>well the name sounds yeah, He's like, we can bring

425
00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:27.559
<v Speaker 1>everyone together, we can put this all behind us. That

426
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:28.759
<v Speaker 1>was my assumption.

427
00:21:28.839 --> 00:21:32.759
<v Speaker 2>But okay, so from this group, a splinter group is formed, okay,

428
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.880
<v Speaker 2>and they are called the Vigilance Community Committee.

429
00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:40.519
<v Speaker 1>Vigilance Committee. Okay, I got your committee. I was expecting

430
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:43.240
<v Speaker 1>some like very villainous name, but that's that's like I

431
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:45.440
<v Speaker 1>don't know, it's like a blockwatch committee, you know, like

432
00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:47.960
<v Speaker 1>we gotta make sure there's no no Dix or Roberts

433
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:53.279
<v Speaker 1>or anything on this rah you know sort of thing. Okay,

434
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, all the Karen's getting together making sure that

435
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.279
<v Speaker 1>the block watch is all good. Yeah, that's kind of

436
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:00.000
<v Speaker 1>what's going on.

437
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Thing, I like where your mind goes. So part of

438
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:07.599
<v Speaker 2>the committee is Constable James Carroll, who is bound and

439
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:09.839
<v Speaker 2>determined to stand up to the Donnelly's.

440
00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, to stand up to them, But I just feel

441
00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:13.400
<v Speaker 1>like it's.

442
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.960
<v Speaker 2>So odd that a constable is part of this committee, right,

443
00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:17.799
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I just thought that was weird.

444
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:20.359
<v Speaker 1>It's a really weird situation. You have some religious dudes

445
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.960
<v Speaker 1>starting all this and then a constable being part of

446
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:27.319
<v Speaker 1>this committee is like, it's very very backwood stuff going on.

447
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's pretty much the Donnali's against the town. Really.

448
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:33.440
<v Speaker 2>I feel like all.

449
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.039
<v Speaker 1>Because they were squatters originally, hey, basically.

450
00:22:35.799 --> 00:22:38.440
<v Speaker 2>That's how it started. But they they have gotten themselves

451
00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:41.480
<v Speaker 2>into a lot of situations too, Like there was long

452
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.039
<v Speaker 2>lists of tons of times that they've been like arrested.

453
00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:47.759
<v Speaker 2>If I could probably have an hour podcast on just

454
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:52.880
<v Speaker 2>all cheese so not long after the vigilance Committee is formed,

455
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.799
<v Speaker 2>William Thompson, a local farmer, notices that one of his

456
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:02.200
<v Speaker 2>cows is missing, and of course blames Of course, the

457
00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:04.680
<v Speaker 2>committee is on it, though, and decides to go over

458
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:07.359
<v Speaker 2>to the Donnelly's to search the farm for the missing cow.

459
00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:09.720
<v Speaker 1>So hold on, I just want to say one thing here.

460
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:12.759
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why, but I almost feel bad for

461
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.119
<v Speaker 1>the Donalies, Like I'm at their defense right now. I'm

462
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.559
<v Speaker 1>full I'm fully expecting that to turn right around and

463
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.440
<v Speaker 1>me to realize that they're complete assholes. For some reason,

464
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:25.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm just feeling really bad for them, like they're the

465
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:27.119
<v Speaker 1>victims of the situation here.

466
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know if it will turn around for you.

467
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.599
<v Speaker 1>Actually, oh shit, okay, okay, But.

468
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.039
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, like I kind of felt that vibe too when

469
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.839
<v Speaker 2>I was researching it a bit like I don't know,

470
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.079
<v Speaker 2>just I mean, they did so many they did so

471
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:45.000
<v Speaker 2>many bad things, but it was just like at that

472
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.119
<v Speaker 2>time a lot of people were doing bad things, but

473
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.680
<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of them, and I don't know, Okay, now,

474
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:53.440
<v Speaker 2>where the heck was I oh right, the cow?

475
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:54.720
<v Speaker 1>The cow? Yeah, the cow?

476
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So there was no cow. No cow turned up

477
00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:01.880
<v Speaker 2>the Donnelly's. The cow has found later and had simply

478
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:07.000
<v Speaker 2>just gotten out. It's thought the whole trespassing incident was

479
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:09.599
<v Speaker 2>set up so they could inspect the Donnelly farm.

480
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:11.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I could see that.

481
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:16.279
<v Speaker 2>The Donnelly's charged the group obviously with trespassing. Numerous arrests

482
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:19.119
<v Speaker 2>were made, but in the trial it said that James

483
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.559
<v Speaker 2>gave them permission to come on the property, so charges

484
00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:23.079
<v Speaker 2>were dropped.

485
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:27.440
<v Speaker 1>But diddy, no, Well, who the hell said that? Like?

486
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Who said that they had permission? That?

487
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Just like remember how a little bit earlier I said

488
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.400
<v Speaker 2>that not everything goes like the right way.

489
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, sorry, one of those. I'm a feeling I'm

490
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:38.079
<v Speaker 1>gonna be hung up on a lot of little things

491
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:39.279
<v Speaker 1>like that I already have.

492
00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:44.000
<v Speaker 2>In the eighteen eighties, the Vigilance Committee strikes again. Their

493
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:46.559
<v Speaker 2>plan was to burn down a barn and blame the

494
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:51.039
<v Speaker 2>Donalies to heighten outrage and I imagine get more supporters.

495
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:51.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

496
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.200
<v Speaker 2>The night they planned to do this, the Donnelly's they

497
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:58.720
<v Speaker 2>had wanted to blame, were at a dance, so James

498
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:05.960
<v Speaker 2>and Johann Johannah got blamed. Which sorry I changed, I

499
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:09.039
<v Speaker 2>put my page. This was a terrible planel because at

500
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:14.799
<v Speaker 2>that point both of them are like quite elderly, and

501
00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:17.960
<v Speaker 2>even the Donnelly's worst enemies could see the case against

502
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.039
<v Speaker 2>them was quite weak. The trial was set to start

503
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:27.119
<v Speaker 2>on February fourth, eighteen eighty.

504
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm like dumbfounded right now. I'm waiting. I need to

505
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:30.960
<v Speaker 1>know how this turns out, because like, how are they

506
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.519
<v Speaker 1>going to get away with just I'm going to burn

507
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:35.720
<v Speaker 1>down my own barn and blame these people, like what.

508
00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:39.480
<v Speaker 2>So the night before the trial, the family, the Donnelley family,

509
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:42.960
<v Speaker 2>was busy in preparation. James and Johannah had a house full,

510
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:47.680
<v Speaker 2>their niece Bridget was visiting from Ireland, and Thomas Donnelly

511
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:51.039
<v Speaker 2>was also home, and a thirteen year old farm boy

512
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:54.200
<v Speaker 2>named Johnny O'Connor was over to help care for the

513
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:57.240
<v Speaker 2>farm chores while the Donnelly's were going to be at

514
00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:01.559
<v Speaker 2>the trial. At the trial, John Donnelly had head headed

515
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:05.400
<v Speaker 2>over to his brothers Williams that lived nearby to borrow

516
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:07.839
<v Speaker 2>a sleigh to take the family to the court the

517
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.720
<v Speaker 2>following day, but decided to spend the night there.

518
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:14.039
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, I feel like this is just going down,

519
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:15.039
<v Speaker 1>like this rabbit hole.

520
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:20.359
<v Speaker 2>Of Shit's committee, however, had another plan for their evening.

521
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:21.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

522
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:25.200
<v Speaker 2>The committee was very unhappy as they figured James and

523
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Johanna would be found not guilty of burning down the barn.

524
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's because they're not.

525
00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:36.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So, approximately thirty of the Donnelley's most bitter enemies

526
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:40.599
<v Speaker 2>gathered with weapons and liquor and decided to take matters

527
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:41.960
<v Speaker 2>into their own hands.

528
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:44.279
<v Speaker 1>It's not a good old mob if you don't have liquor.

529
00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:47.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they need the liquor. Yeah, definitely, just after midnight

530
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.480
<v Speaker 2>with some liquid, courage.

531
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:51.599
<v Speaker 1>Consumed he actually have that in your notes?

532
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.640
<v Speaker 2>I do. I was like, I gotta put that in there.

533
00:26:54.680 --> 00:27:00.440
<v Speaker 2>I'll forget. The angry mob, led by Constable Carrol, storm

534
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.240
<v Speaker 2>over to the Donnelly household.

535
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:05.759
<v Speaker 1>These guys are dicks.

536
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:11.319
<v Speaker 2>When they arrive, they surround the property and Constable Carol

537
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:14.000
<v Speaker 2>barges to the front door, creating an element of surprise.

538
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:16.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean I would be freaking freaked right out of

539
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:19.880
<v Speaker 2>someone kidding as I look at.

540
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.319
<v Speaker 1>The door, I would definitely be surprised.

541
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Thomas, the strongest family member president, was handcuffed immediately. Commotion

542
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:32.279
<v Speaker 2>obviously woke the household James requested to see a warrant,

543
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:38.319
<v Speaker 2>but Carol didn't have one. At that point, Carol singled, signaled, signaled,

544
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.079
<v Speaker 2>signaled for the other men to storm in the house,

545
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:45.920
<v Speaker 2>and they did. They stormed in there in a brutal

546
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:49.880
<v Speaker 2>attackez this and this right here like shows how it

547
00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:55.519
<v Speaker 2>was a brutal weapons of choice pitchforks, shovels, clubs, and axes.

548
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay that as soon as you said that there was

549
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:01.880
<v Speaker 1>like twenty to thirty of them, like liquor and like weapons.

550
00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:04.240
<v Speaker 1>I literally first thing I pictured pitchforks.

551
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm back in the day, and yeah.

552
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:09.200
<v Speaker 1>It's a mob. I'm surprised they didn't have flaming torches

553
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:09.640
<v Speaker 1>as well.

554
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.319
<v Speaker 2>I feel like that's also the what you kind of

555
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:14.240
<v Speaker 2>have for like a zombie apocalypse so too.

556
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:17.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean definitely, if you're out in a farm, you're

557
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:19.799
<v Speaker 1>gonna find those things, So that's what you're gonna grab. Yeah,

558
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:24.160
<v Speaker 1>although my zombie apocalypse weapon of choice a wooden baseball

559
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:24.839
<v Speaker 1>bet just.

560
00:28:24.759 --> 00:28:28.519
<v Speaker 2>Saying oh with the root barb or is that what

561
00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:35.000
<v Speaker 2>you barb o? What do you call? What? Din't the

562
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.599
<v Speaker 2>guy from the Walking Dead house?

563
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh Meagan had barbed wire rubb. I think you were

564
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:46.039
<v Speaker 1>thinking rebar, which is bar?

565
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:47.279
<v Speaker 2>Is that how you say it?

566
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, no, it's it's barbed wire is what he had.

567
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.240
<v Speaker 1>But rebar is the word I think you had in

568
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:55.920
<v Speaker 1>your head, and that is like it's a thick bar

569
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:58.559
<v Speaker 1>they use for like foundations and buildings and stuff.

570
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, old rhubarb, but I feel like that would do

571
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:01.640
<v Speaker 2>the trick.

572
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:05.359
<v Speaker 1>Just beat a freaking zombie over the head with a vegetable.

573
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Okay, So the episode, though, I think

574
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:13.839
<v Speaker 2>it really shows that I actually need a day off.

575
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.720
<v Speaker 1>I think so because or you need to drink a

576
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:18.559
<v Speaker 1>little bit more of your drink over there for my

577
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:20.640
<v Speaker 1>liquid courage.

578
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:24.359
<v Speaker 2>H The first of all was James Donnelly. He was

579
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:30.640
<v Speaker 2>beaten rapidly, his skull being hit repeatedly. Johanna fought hard

580
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:33.880
<v Speaker 2>but was eventually beaten to the ground as well. Thomas,

581
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.759
<v Speaker 2>though handcuffed, was fighting extremely hard to protect his family.

582
00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:40.200
<v Speaker 2>He eventually got to the front door, but was met

583
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:45.440
<v Speaker 2>with a pitchfork that was thrusted in him numerous times.

584
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:49.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, that hurts. Bridget had escaped upstairs, but

585
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:53.359
<v Speaker 2>she was found hiding and was beaten until she was limp.

586
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:56.359
<v Speaker 2>The four bodies were brought into the kitchen, where they

587
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:58.799
<v Speaker 2>continued to beat them, even though I feel like they

588
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:03.680
<v Speaker 2>were already dead. One quote said, hit the fellow on

589
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:05.920
<v Speaker 2>the head with that shovel and break his head open.

590
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.920
<v Speaker 2>So thomas head was continued to be bashed in three

591
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:10.960
<v Speaker 2>to four more times.

592
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, that is insane.

593
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:17.920
<v Speaker 2>The men apparently also bashed in the dog's head. I

594
00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:19.559
<v Speaker 2>was like, leave the breaking dog.

595
00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:23.839
<v Speaker 1>This is literally mob mentality, like yeah.

596
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.720
<v Speaker 2>The house was then lit on fire and the mob

597
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:32.240
<v Speaker 2>proceeded over to William Donnelly's house. You'll remember, though, that

598
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:35.680
<v Speaker 2>the Donnelly's had the fifth house guest there, the little

599
00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:37.319
<v Speaker 2>thirteen year old Johnny O'Connor.

600
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:39.319
<v Speaker 1>He was Johnny.

601
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:42.720
<v Speaker 2>He was missed during all this commotion as he was

602
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:46.200
<v Speaker 2>hiding under the bed and was luckily able to break

603
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:49.599
<v Speaker 2>free from the house. After the vigilantes had left quote

604
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:53.680
<v Speaker 2>unquote vigilantes vigilantes. He ran to the nearest neighbor and

605
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:58.240
<v Speaker 2>told them what happened. As the committee arrived at William's house,

606
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:02.000
<v Speaker 2>it was actually John Donnelly who opened the door. He

607
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:05.319
<v Speaker 2>was spending the night there. As soon as he opened

608
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:08.200
<v Speaker 2>the door, he was immediately shot, while William and his

609
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:12.079
<v Speaker 2>wife hidden inside hoping the mob would leave. They actually

610
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:16.759
<v Speaker 2>did eventually leave, saying there's enough bloodshed tonight, boys, let's

611
00:31:16.759 --> 00:31:17.599
<v Speaker 2>go home.

612
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:20.799
<v Speaker 1>Jesus, enough bloodshed. Wow.

613
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:25.119
<v Speaker 2>So see like that, I just like, maybe back in

614
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:26.880
<v Speaker 2>the day, that was just how you solve stuff.

615
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:29.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, it's definitely not how you should solve stuff.

616
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:34.279
<v Speaker 1>I mean I understand, like it's not. They weren't as

617
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:37.240
<v Speaker 1>progressive as we are today, for sure. I understand violence

618
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.440
<v Speaker 1>was a lot more ingrained into the society. Yeah, like

619
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:47.359
<v Speaker 1>accept it. However, that does not mean we disagree with

620
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:49.720
<v Speaker 1>these people. So let's go bash their head in with

621
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:50.400
<v Speaker 1>a shovel.

622
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, like they So five lives are taken

623
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 2>that night, Jesus, that's a lot of lives. That left

624
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:03.759
<v Speaker 2>only four surviving, Donnelly's Jenny, Patrick, William, and Robert because

625
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.119
<v Speaker 2>two of the kids had previously passed away, one from

626
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:08.839
<v Speaker 2>an illness and one from a knife fight.

627
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:10.279
<v Speaker 1>From a knife fight.

628
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:11.559
<v Speaker 2>From a knife fight.

629
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:13.519
<v Speaker 1>I was not expecting that.

630
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.759
<v Speaker 2>From at a different time.

631
00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:17.240
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking, like an accident on the farm and illness,

632
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:20.359
<v Speaker 1>but a knife fight just out of nowhere, Okay, okay,

633
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:21.039
<v Speaker 1>that's interesting.

634
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe that's the way to go, Like.

635
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:25.599
<v Speaker 1>I would not want to die of a knife fight.

636
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:31.160
<v Speaker 2>No. The funeral service was conducted by Father John Connolly,

637
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:35.359
<v Speaker 2>the same priest that initially started the Peace Society, which

638
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:38.440
<v Speaker 2>I thought, I don't know, I just thought that was interesting. Yeah,

639
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.319
<v Speaker 2>the church was packed. Some were shocked, others were relieved

640
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:45.000
<v Speaker 2>because the Donnelly's are down.

641
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I'm sure others were probably like laughing and bragging.

642
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Well, and then some of the vigilantes even were in attendance,

643
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:56.000
<v Speaker 2>including Constable Carrol. Like, gosh, if you had part of this,

644
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:58.680
<v Speaker 2>like don't go to the funeral, right, feel like that's

645
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:02.440
<v Speaker 2>just like nice human one a one. Johnny was as

646
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:08.240
<v Speaker 2>well there, including several reporters. So October fourth, eighteen eighty,

647
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:13.200
<v Speaker 2>the first trial begins in London, Ontario. It's for Constable Carro,

648
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:18.640
<v Speaker 2>who was charged for the murder of Johannah Donnelly. Johnny

649
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:22.559
<v Speaker 2>O'Connor testified the little boy. Yeah, even though apparently the

650
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:25.440
<v Speaker 2>vigilantes did pretty much everything they could to stop him,

651
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:30.720
<v Speaker 2>including setting his house on fire. Holy fun, because apparently

652
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:35.680
<v Speaker 2>that family was kind of friends. I guess with the Donnelly's,

653
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:40.480
<v Speaker 2>they I mean, they weren't against them, and so they

654
00:33:41.559 --> 00:33:43.359
<v Speaker 2>didn't like them because of that. And then also they

655
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:45.119
<v Speaker 2>didn't want this little boy to testify.

656
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:48.599
<v Speaker 1>Wow, good on this little boy, because you imagine being

657
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:49.519
<v Speaker 1>thirteen years old.

658
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:52.559
<v Speaker 2>I no, he's still he's still Like everything I read,

659
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.000
<v Speaker 2>he was like, still gun ho to go about it.

660
00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:56.599
<v Speaker 2>He's like, good for you.

661
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, Johnny is like Johnny's the badass of the day

662
00:33:59.519 --> 00:33:59.799
<v Speaker 1>right here.

663
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:05.200
<v Speaker 2>With this trial, the jury claimed they couldn't reach a

664
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:09.480
<v Speaker 2>verdict though one and this was interesting, one jury declaring

665
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:12.119
<v Speaker 2>he would never convic Carol, even if you've seen the

666
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:19.159
<v Speaker 2>killings happening himself. What I was like, well, I mean

667
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it's just because everyone's like so against the Donnelly's.

668
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:29.280
<v Speaker 2>The second are you okay? I am just The second

669
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:33.719
<v Speaker 2>trial started the following year, with the testimony being very similar,

670
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:39.800
<v Speaker 2>but this time Carol was found not guilty. Are rest

671
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:43.159
<v Speaker 2>of the prisoners are granted bail and never to be

672
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:50.880
<v Speaker 2>tried again. What so despite eyewitnessing eyewitnesses seeing the vigilante

673
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.760
<v Speaker 2>committee making their way to the Donnaley's, Johnny O'Connor being

674
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:58.639
<v Speaker 2>under the bed and seeing all this shit go down,

675
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:02.840
<v Speaker 2>and William donne also had testified because he saw his

676
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.960
<v Speaker 2>brother being gunned down in the house. The courts never

677
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:10.480
<v Speaker 2>convicted a single person for the massacre. I didn't saying

678
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:10.840
<v Speaker 2>it wrong.

679
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Again, for the manicure the massacre, I can't say it

680
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:21.599
<v Speaker 1>right now, massacre, massacre, the massacre, not the manicure, the massacre.

681
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:26.679
<v Speaker 2>I think you got that right that time, Okay, But honestly,

682
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:29.679
<v Speaker 2>something else I read, anything other than this would have

683
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:37.639
<v Speaker 2>probably caused a huge backlash. Why because everyone hated the dominies,

684
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:39.840
<v Speaker 2>and like, I think there would have just been like

685
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:43.400
<v Speaker 2>riots and stuff. So I mean, not that I'm saying

686
00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:45.679
<v Speaker 2>that this that was like how the outcome had to

687
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:47.880
<v Speaker 2>have been, but like, I feel like there was just

688
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:52.880
<v Speaker 2>outside pressures for this, because there definitely was witnesses and

689
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:57.360
<v Speaker 2>testimonies and stuff. But yeah, there literally no one to

690
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.000
<v Speaker 2>this day has paid for these murders.

691
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:05.199
<v Speaker 1>That is absolutely ridiculous. Every single one of those people

692
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:10.480
<v Speaker 1>are fucking trash yeap, Holy fuck. I thought the Donnelly's

693
00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:13.119
<v Speaker 1>were gonna be like a fucking like murderous family like

694
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:14.440
<v Speaker 1>the Picton's or some shit.

695
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Well remember he did murder well the one by accident.

696
00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't think that was intentionally he threw something

697
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.559
<v Speaker 1>at the dude, came out of rage. Maybe it was

698
00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:29.079
<v Speaker 1>a fucking dangerous thing that he did, but I don't

699
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:30.599
<v Speaker 1>think he intended to kill him.

700
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:34.119
<v Speaker 2>No, And I mean the Donnelly's did a lot. Like

701
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:38.119
<v Speaker 2>with the stagecoach thing. There was reports where they they

702
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:42.440
<v Speaker 2>would go and hurt their competitors horses and stuff, but

703
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:44.639
<v Speaker 2>then the competitors did the same thing.

704
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:47.599
<v Speaker 1>Back to that, and it's it's the two sides of

705
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:49.480
<v Speaker 1>the coin. You have a war going back and forth.

706
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:51.360
<v Speaker 1>What are they supposed to do? Sit back? They have

707
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:52.719
<v Speaker 1>an entire town against them.

708
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:55.719
<v Speaker 2>Well because remember too up prior to like the land issues,

709
00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:58.280
<v Speaker 2>they were just doing their own thing for ten years.

710
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:00.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I.

711
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:03.079
<v Speaker 2>Feel like I don't know. So yeah, no one, no

712
00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:08.079
<v Speaker 2>one paid a single price for for this mass murder.

713
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:10.000
<v Speaker 1>That is crazy.

714
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:13.880
<v Speaker 2>So that's the story. See I did one that had that.

715
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:15.360
<v Speaker 2>You were like, oh, you mean it doesn't have a

716
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:19.199
<v Speaker 2>solid end, but I feel like kind of it does.

717
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:22.400
<v Speaker 2>It just wasn't justified.

718
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:26.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well that definitely was not a justification ending. Yeah,

719
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:29.639
<v Speaker 1>there's people out there, well not out there now, they've

720
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:32.599
<v Speaker 1>clearly passed away, but they're like their families are out there,

721
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:36.800
<v Speaker 1>and it's like they just went on with their lives,

722
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:39.400
<v Speaker 1>and they just went on to pro create and do

723
00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:40.719
<v Speaker 1>their farming or whatever.

724
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:43.679
<v Speaker 2>And it would be interesting to know if that Carol

725
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:45.639
<v Speaker 2>the Constable was still.

726
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:49.519
<v Speaker 1>He's the biggest stick of them all, just saying that

727
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:50.840
<v Speaker 1>guy can go fuck himself.

728
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:52.960
<v Speaker 2>He's the one you have the most problem with.

729
00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:57.199
<v Speaker 1>Yes, he's he's a freaking officer and he's joining this

730
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:02.920
<v Speaker 1>apparently vigilante committee. He's literally the fucking Karen in the

731
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:06.360
<v Speaker 1>block Watch. But he has all these like hidden agendas.

732
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:10.360
<v Speaker 1>He's only doing it because Tina down the street has chickens.

733
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:12.599
<v Speaker 1>She's not supposed to have chickens, and I can hear

734
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:14.800
<v Speaker 1>them making noise and it wakes my dogs up.

735
00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:16.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think he wanted to be the one that

736
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:20.159
<v Speaker 2>brought the Donnelly's down. He's a dick under his.

737
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't give a shit what he wants. He's a dick.

738
00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:27.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you really feel.

739
00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Do you want me to use a sea word? Because

740
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:33.119
<v Speaker 1>I thought halfway through this I could call him seaword

741
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Constable Carol.

742
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:40.119
<v Speaker 2>So that's the story. There you have it, Damn. That

743
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:44.880
<v Speaker 2>was It's a very historic story, and I feel like

744
00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:49.840
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of different sources out there, and I

745
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:52.280
<v Speaker 2>mean there's been like plays and books and everything, so

746
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:55.320
<v Speaker 2>you could really dive into this this case and learn

747
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:56.400
<v Speaker 2>probably times more.

748
00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:58.239
<v Speaker 1>But when you said it was really hard to get

749
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.559
<v Speaker 1>the fact straight on this though, too, Hey, it was

750
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:05.960
<v Speaker 1>considering it's like an like no trial was seen through really,

751
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:09.480
<v Speaker 1>and it's like a false ending to the trial was.

752
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:13.920
<v Speaker 2>Not correct so long ago, and there's just each source

753
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:17.920
<v Speaker 2>had like little tidbits of different different info, which I

754
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.840
<v Speaker 2>found interesting. It would it would be similar, but like

755
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:22.480
<v Speaker 2>there'd be like little differences.

756
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:26.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, like what were some of the differences though, Oh,

757
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:28.840
<v Speaker 1>you're really putting me on the spot here. Well, you

758
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:31.039
<v Speaker 1>can't think of anything off the top of your your head,

759
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:36.079
<v Speaker 1>can I? Well, like you said like they weren't sure

760
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.440
<v Speaker 1>if they owned or leased the land.

761
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:40.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, that was one thing.

762
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:43.519
<v Speaker 1>Anything else and it was all like minor details. Okay,

763
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:46.719
<v Speaker 1>it's not like five were dead or seven dead. It's

764
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:47.639
<v Speaker 1>nothing like that, right.

765
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:49.960
<v Speaker 2>No, No, okay, no, it wasn't. It wasn't stuff like that.

766
00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:53.280
<v Speaker 2>It was just yeah, I'm trying to like look through

767
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:54.840
<v Speaker 2>my notes. I didn't write down.

768
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:58.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's not pertinent. I was just curious as long

769
00:39:58.199 --> 00:39:59.559
<v Speaker 1>as it's not major information.

770
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:03.320
<v Speaker 2>It was a major information, it was just different, different

771
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:06.159
<v Speaker 2>way of telling, not even like the most.

772
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Important bits of the story gotcha.

773
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:10.400
<v Speaker 2>So but then it just like kind of played with

774
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:11.719
<v Speaker 2>me and I was like, what the heck, like I

775
00:40:11.719 --> 00:40:14.960
<v Speaker 2>want to know exactly. So then I'd read like different

776
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:17.400
<v Speaker 2>things and try to pick the one that was like the.

777
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Most common from good sources. Of course.

778
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh there's also Oh I should have wrote it down.

779
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:27.760
<v Speaker 2>There was uh, there's like a brewery. I can't remember

780
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:32.480
<v Speaker 2>a craft beer place now that is about the Donnelly's.

781
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:34.199
<v Speaker 1>Really where do you know where?

782
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:39.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming in Ontario, like I think it was where

783
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:41.280
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff went down, But we should.

784
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Go there one day. I want to go there, I know.

785
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Because I think there was the gravesite. There was a

786
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:51.960
<v Speaker 2>little bit about that, and they had to remove the

787
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.800
<v Speaker 2>the tombstone because it kept getting like vandalized and stuff,

788
00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:58.480
<v Speaker 2>which that was really crappy, but it has been replaced.

789
00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:01.039
<v Speaker 2>At one point they were letting people go in there

790
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:02.599
<v Speaker 2>because it was just I think a lot of people

791
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:06.559
<v Speaker 2>wanted to go see and stuff. Right. I don't know

792
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:08.519
<v Speaker 2>if you can go in at this point, but I

793
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:10.159
<v Speaker 2>think that'd be really interesting not.

794
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:14.239
<v Speaker 1>Being vandalized by freaking constable Carol's bratty ass kids.

795
00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:17.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, probably just bratty kids.

796
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:20.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, that was a good case though, well done.

797
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:22.559
<v Speaker 2>So there you have it. Yeah, it's very interesting. I

798
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:25.599
<v Speaker 2>would be interested to read a book about it, Actually

799
00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:27.599
<v Speaker 2>I would. I would like to dive in a little

800
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:29.800
<v Speaker 2>bit deeper even after Yeah, well maybe.

801
00:41:29.559 --> 00:41:32.159
<v Speaker 1>We should dive in switch you can figure out.

802
00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:34.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so thanks for listening.

803
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:36.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we appreciate you guys being here. Don't forget to

804
00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:39.199
<v Speaker 1>check us out on Instagram at Wicked and Grim. Well,

805
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:41.119
<v Speaker 1>of course, make sure we post a little selfie. Actually

806
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:43.000
<v Speaker 1>we should. We haven't taken a selfie yet. We'll take

807
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:43.719
<v Speaker 1>a little selfie.

808
00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:46.079
<v Speaker 2>Wait, I'm wearing the same shirt that all the selfies

809
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:49.079
<v Speaker 2>are in though, so we can't why I'll have to

810
00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:51.119
<v Speaker 2>change you can it change?

811
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So Nichole's got a change and then we'll post

812
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:57.320
<v Speaker 1>a selfie. But by the time that happens, it'll be

813
00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:59.320
<v Speaker 1>it'll be up on Instagram and you guys can go

814
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:01.639
<v Speaker 1>check us out. You can go see that selfie. And

815
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:04.119
<v Speaker 1>of course we appreciate you being here.

816
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

817
00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:10.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so stay wicked friends. Yeah, see you later Peace,