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Speaker 1: and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast
Speaker 1: five years ago this week on a very special flag
Speaker 1: Ship episode. It was the day after AW Dynamite's debut.
Speaker 1: Jason Powell from Pro Wrestling dot Net joined me and
Speaker 1: we compared AW Dynamite to NXT on USA, including the ratings.
Speaker 1: We compared the shows on a number of levels, which
Speaker 1: Roster appeared to be stronger among them. Also w B
Speaker 1: statement about aw previewing SmackDown on Fox and what the
Speaker 1: Bruckloasner raymisterial angle might have been leading to the lone
Speaker 1: of Bobby Lashley situations, some announcing changes and more so
Speaker 1: let's get to it. Is Today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling
Speaker 1: Podcast five years ago Flagship Flashback for Thursday, October third,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. All right, Jason, we are eagerly anticipating
Speaker 1: the ratings as we record this on Thursday afternoon, But
Speaker 1: just before we hit record, wwe sent out a statement
Speaker 1: that sounds classy but also conciliatory congratulations to AEW on
Speaker 1: a successful premiere. The real winners of last night's had
Speaker 1: to telecast of NXT on USA and AW on T
Speaker 1: and T are the fans who can expect Wednesday nights
Speaker 1: to be competitive and a wild ride as this and
Speaker 1: these are key words, as this is a marathon, not
Speaker 1: a one night sprint. So to me, classy statement. I
Speaker 1: think they've got some medications early that they got their
Speaker 1: butts kicked in total viewership. What's your take on that, Jason, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's probably some of it. I also think that,
Speaker 2: you know, it's a shabby move. You know, it makes
Speaker 2: them look like decent people for acknowledging the competition, for
Speaker 2: congratulating them. It's yeah, I mean it's strategic, it's not.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's just out of the goodness of
Speaker 2: their hearts.
Speaker 1: I agree it's strategic. I don't think that if they
Speaker 1: felt that they won by a three to one margin,
Speaker 1: because anything WWE does destroys any other competition. Because if
Speaker 1: you promote NXT on ron SmackDown and you're on USA network,
Speaker 1: no new company out of the blue is going to
Speaker 1: be able to take them on. And if they felt
Speaker 1: that way and had that level of confidence. I think
Speaker 1: they just stay quiet. I don't think they would rub
Speaker 1: it in, But I just think the wording of that
Speaker 1: that it will be a competitive and wild ride, they're
Speaker 1: basically saying we're What I like about that statement is
Speaker 1: it says we want word out to our fans that
Speaker 1: when these numbers come out in a couple hours, if
Speaker 1: it doesn't look good for us, we're in this for
Speaker 1: the long run. This is going to be a competitive
Speaker 1: and wild ride and a marathon. That, in a way,
Speaker 1: is I think WWE sending a message to everybody going
Speaker 1: we're not giving up on this. NXT might be in
Speaker 1: the smaller venue, it might be lower budget in certain ways,
Speaker 1: or look lower budget in certain ways, and maybe the
Speaker 1: viewership out of the gate was not good for us.
Speaker 1: We're not giving up. We're not waving a white flag.
Speaker 1: This is a marathon, and we're energized to fight back
Speaker 1: and stay with us and maybe keep their NXT fans
Speaker 1: from getting demoralized that AW just dominated again. This is
Speaker 1: premature because by the time anybody hears this, ratings.
Speaker 2: Will be out.
Speaker 1: Check out pw torch dot com and Pro Wrestling dot Net.
Speaker 1: For breaking ratings news and to get some key metrics.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping to get minute by minutes and quarter hours
Speaker 1: and break that down tonight. So check out PW torch
Speaker 1: dot com for that. Yeah, I mean to me and
Speaker 1: I like that too because I don't want I like
Speaker 1: hearing from WWE they're in this as a marathon that
Speaker 1: the NXT thing, Well, we're gonna try it for you know,
Speaker 1: a two month run and then drop it. This sounds
Speaker 1: like they want to battle and that they want to
Speaker 1: eventually win.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you don't think they're going to congratulate the
Speaker 2: NWA when they premiered their new show on YouTube and
Speaker 2: Facebook next week.
Speaker 1: No, they won't. Although if if impact Word to Run
Speaker 1: had to head with raw let's throw something out or
Speaker 1: let's say MPEC State on Friday nights and they're in
Speaker 1: primetime up against SmackDown and the ratings differential was sixty
Speaker 1: nine to one in favor of SmackDown. There's no message.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The message is because it truly is competitive, and I
Speaker 1: think the message is even more so because they know
Speaker 1: they lost this first week or they're quite sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, everything is pointing to that obviously by
Speaker 2: the time most people hear this, I would think that
Speaker 2: the numbers are going to be out, but I mean,
Speaker 2: just social media buzz. I'm guessing your poll reading numbers
Speaker 2: are showing something similar to it. Just as far as
Speaker 2: the count, it was not quite two to one. As
Speaker 2: far as people responding to in my poll for just
Speaker 2: to degrade both shows, and they were separate polls, but
Speaker 2: it was clearly AEW had a more response that way.
Speaker 2: And that's you know, just a small sample size obviously,
Speaker 2: but it really does seem like there was a great
Speaker 2: deal of social media buzz regarding the AW show. That
Speaker 2: not that there wasn't any for NXT, but I do,
Speaker 2: based on what we've seen so far, I'm going to
Speaker 2: be surprised if AEW didn't win this first battle and
Speaker 2: do so, you know, in a sizable way. I just
Speaker 2: think that, I guess I'll be surprised. If it's close,
Speaker 2: I will too.
Speaker 1: I mean, are my numbers, I think it was three
Speaker 1: point six times as many people watched ae W Live
Speaker 1: as watched NXT. Now that said the same night, DVR
Speaker 1: viewership is going to factor in in even things out
Speaker 1: more for people who watched both shows, and you know,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren says, I have a plan for that. Well,
Speaker 1: I have a poll for that. You might not know that, Jason,
Speaker 1: because you're not following politics as closely as as ion.
Speaker 1: But that's kind of Elizabeth to follow anything. I know, yes,
Speaker 1: but that's Elizabeth Warren's. The thing is if people wear
Speaker 1: T shirts, because she always says, if you have a
Speaker 1: question about something, I have a plan for that, let
Speaker 1: me tell you about it. So, but I have a
Speaker 1: poll for that. I asked on on Twitter this afternoon,
Speaker 1: which option below most closely matches your viewing experience of
Speaker 1: Wednesday nights wrestling options? Did you end up seeing both
Speaker 1: NXT and AAW ratings count same night DVR viewership? So
Speaker 1: nineteen percent said they watched NXT live and AWE DVR.
Speaker 1: Forty one percent said they watched aw live and NXT
Speaker 1: on DVR. So you think, oh, well, that's only a
Speaker 1: two to one margin, right, Well, no, I only watched
Speaker 1: one show. I didn't specify which one, but twenty seven
Speaker 1: percent only watched one. And that's where I think AAW
Speaker 1: is going to increase that two to one lead by
Speaker 1: quite a bit. I only have four options on Twitter,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't break it down by showing this poll,
Speaker 1: but our earlier poll indicated that three point six to
Speaker 1: one viewership advantage for AW. Now, again, this is not
Speaker 1: scientific random of all wrestling fans. It's only followers of
Speaker 1: PW Torch on Twitter who choose to vote in polls,
Speaker 1: so you know, all the caveats are there. But we
Speaker 1: were pretty close last week with a poll predicting the
Speaker 1: drop in NXT viewership on week two compared to week one.
Speaker 1: It's not useless, it's just information for your consideration. Fourteen percent,
Speaker 1: and this number is really small, Jason, fourteen percent said
Speaker 1: they flipped back and forth live, and that number is
Speaker 1: lower than I thought. I what that indicates to me
Speaker 1: is people are very loyal to one brand in terms
Speaker 1: of watching it start to finish live. The lack of
Speaker 1: commercial interruptions or the split screen kept people loyal to
Speaker 1: that show for the most part. And then they were
Speaker 1: a lot of people, looks like sixty percent then did
Speaker 1: go and watch the other show afterwards because it's still
Speaker 1: relatively early in the evening, and it's not they're not
Speaker 1: three hour shows, they're two hour shows. Are in two
Speaker 1: or ten minute shows. So I'm just surprised that hell
Speaker 1: lo the flip back and forth number.
Speaker 2: Is Yeah, it's almost like we need a red zone channel. Yes,
Speaker 2: you just get the best of both, you know, they
Speaker 2: just kind of bounce back and forth. But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean with DVRs now, you know, back in the day,
Speaker 2: I got it, you know, I mean you could go
Speaker 2: do what we did and use VHS taps so you
Speaker 2: can see both shows. But I think it just was
Speaker 2: easier Monday Night for people to kind of flip back
Speaker 2: and forth. We're now with DVRs and you can speed
Speaker 2: through the commercials. I guess I'm not as surprised as
Speaker 2: you are that there wasn't as much flipping as maybe
Speaker 2: there was back in the Monday Night War era.
Speaker 1: So here's here's the Twitter verse reaction to WWW's statement.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fun. I'm following you too.
Speaker 1: Yes, three count two Thursday says, In other words, AW
Speaker 1: had a higher rating last night. Old Man says, so
Speaker 1: they got doubled in the ratings. Then getting ahead of
Speaker 1: the story, Eon says, oh yeah, AW off to a
Speaker 1: good start voice of the wrestling, so they definitely lost
Speaker 1: by a lot. So yeah, I mean on and on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally I'll throwing in from brock White Transit
Speaker 2: trans They got the doors blown off, so now they're
Speaker 2: going to play like the classy underdog. What's next billionaire
Speaker 2: Shad and Jerrick hold Skitch.
Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, Tony NXT must have gotten murdered in
Speaker 1: the ratings. Yeah, I mean this is where it's it's
Speaker 1: a little rich of WWE in a way. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, you look at it, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to be too cynical about things, but people responding are
Speaker 1: looking at this and going, oh, okay, we see what
Speaker 1: you're up to, you know, I mean it is a
Speaker 1: little transparent. WW doesn't acknowledge AW until now, and it's
Speaker 1: look at how classic are But that I'm less cynical
Speaker 1: about it because I really do think the message here
Speaker 1: wasn't let's frame ourselves as good guys. I really think
Speaker 1: the message was rallying their fans to go, hey, AW
Speaker 1: is brand new. They did tons of advertising. We don't.
Speaker 1: We are in this for the long run. This is
Speaker 1: a marathon. So I think it was sort of letting
Speaker 1: fans know we got a war here. This is not
Speaker 1: going to be this lopsided every week. We are in
Speaker 1: this to fight.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: The other interesting thing though, is this is a marathon
Speaker 1: not a sprint. Who put on a pay per view
Speaker 1: caliber lineup last night and who put on a random
Speaker 1: almost a random assortment of matches through much of the
Speaker 1: show nxt ww put NXT put on way more of
Speaker 1: a marquee pay per view type lineup than than AW did.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the takeover like to a point. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean you had your NXT title match, you had
Speaker 2: the tag title match. You had the women's match, the rest,
Speaker 2: you know, it didn't have the other two strong matches
Speaker 2: that you would normally get. I don't think I'm forgetting anything.
Speaker 2: I mean, like the other women's match was pretty good,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean they did they loaded up their
Speaker 2: show more so. But I mean, let's face it, so
Speaker 2: much of this is people had a strong curiosity about
Speaker 2: ae W and only time will tell whether that sticks.
Speaker 2: And I mean, I do think these early weeks are
Speaker 2: so important for one side jumping out. It can't be
Speaker 2: undervalued either because as you and I know from the
Speaker 2: Monday Night War, Raw was a much better show than
Speaker 2: Nitro was, even though Nitro was still winning that ratings
Speaker 2: battle for so long. It's all subjective, but I think
Speaker 2: just anyone who's honest would tell you that Raw was
Speaker 2: the better show, but took them a long time before
Speaker 2: that started showing up in the ratings. And so it's
Speaker 2: a matter of just getting you know, whoever can jump
Speaker 2: out to a sizeable lead is going to have quite
Speaker 2: the advantage because people just get in that normal viewing habit.
Speaker 1: It's fun, Jason, you and I covering the Monday Night
Speaker 1: rare ratings day was such a big deal, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean we didn't.
Speaker 1: The ratings battle was going on before there was internet,
Speaker 1: and so the ratings report would be something that would
Speaker 1: go up on nine hundred lines and people would call
Speaker 1: to hear the analysis as soon as possible. The mail
Speaker 1: day for the Progressing Torch newsletter was Tuesdays, and the
Speaker 1: ratings would come out on Tuesday, and on the mailing
Speaker 1: address for the newsletters, I would add a line above
Speaker 1: the address that would report the rating because it was
Speaker 1: after the newsletter was published, but I want people want
Speaker 1: to know the rating. They didn't want to wait a
Speaker 1: week and a half, so I'd print the rating on
Speaker 1: the address label as breaking news. So a lot of
Speaker 1: people learn about the ratings Wednesday, Thursday, Friday when they
Speaker 1: receive the paper copy, not because it was printed in
Speaker 1: the newsletter, but because it was printed on the address label.
Speaker 1: That's how much people wanted to know what those ratings were.
Speaker 1: And then usually the next week we do a big
Speaker 1: breakdown of quarter hours on the prior week's ratings. It's
Speaker 1: going to be different. Now people on Twitter are just
Speaker 1: going refresh, refreshing windy ratings come out. They're excited about it.
Speaker 1: They're asking Wendy ratings come out, nobody was Nobody was
Speaker 1: paying attention to it at this granular level. So it's
Speaker 1: fun to be back in the game where you have
Speaker 1: ww commenting on AW and people are really excited about
Speaker 1: the headhead ratings, and yeah, it's going to be fun.
Speaker 1: Let's at the table?
Speaker 2: Does just mean way, we're not going to have to
Speaker 2: put up with emails going why do you guys? Shall
Speaker 2: them pay attention to the ratings? They don't matter?
Speaker 1: Yes, yep, we get to ignore those I always have.
Speaker 1: All right, let's at the table. I'm Wade Keller. This
Speaker 1: is the Way Keller Progressing Podcast. Our Thursday Flagship edition
Speaker 1: for October third, twenty nineteen. A note on our schedule
Speaker 1: because wrestling has changed, so our podcast schedule has changed.
Speaker 1: Earlier this week, right here on the Blue Brand, I
Speaker 1: had a two and a half hour interview with AEW
Speaker 1: president Tony Kahan that dropped Tuesday late afternoon. If you
Speaker 1: haven't noticed that yet, you're gonna want to listen. It's
Speaker 1: really good. And then the Thursday Flagship normally dropped just
Speaker 1: past midnight on Thursdays. Now it's gonna drop late afternoon
Speaker 1: or early evening usually late afternoon, so we're gonna stick
Speaker 1: with a Thursday flagship and just have a faster turnaround
Speaker 1: time on when we're record and then post it. So
Speaker 1: that's what you can look forward to. Over on the
Speaker 1: PW Torch Daily Cast, we do have a two roughly
Speaker 1: two hour NXT post show roundtable hosted by Kelly Wells.
Speaker 1: So if you are looking for in depth NXT analysis
Speaker 1: on USA, go check out Kelly Wells, Tom Stoup, and
Speaker 1: Nate Lindberg covering that show. And then on the way
Speaker 1: Keller Pro Wrestling Pot post show, our red Logo show.
Speaker 1: I hosted a close roughly two hour post show with
Speaker 1: Zach last night. We took phone calls. We had so
Speaker 1: much demand that the switchboard broke, it crashed, and it
Speaker 1: took us forty five minutes to be able to actually
Speaker 1: reboot and refresh and the demand subside enough that we
Speaker 1: could actually log on as hosts and activate the show.
Speaker 1: So hopefully, I don't know, hopefully it's not an ongoing problem,
Speaker 1: but it's a good show and it is up with
Speaker 1: Actually it was two and a half hours roughly of
Speaker 1: Zach and me talking about that, also an outside correspondent
Speaker 1: and email, so tons of audio that is free and
Speaker 1: available to all of you on our three different podcast feeds,
Speaker 1: and of course it goes at free and plug free
Speaker 1: with ad digital content with VPP membership, and some of
Speaker 1: that additional content will be the Fix with Todd Martin
Speaker 1: that I'll record later today just for VIP members. Todd
Speaker 1: was in the building last night. We'll get his take
Speaker 1: on AW in person, and then also NXT, which he
Speaker 1: watched already as a comparison. My guest co host on
Speaker 1: today's show is Powell from Pro Wrestling dot Net. Jason,
Speaker 1: you have just as long of a spiel as I
Speaker 1: do on how you're adjusting to the new schedule. Tell
Speaker 1: people about your website and the audio that you're offering
Speaker 1: so that they know where to go after they listen
Speaker 1: to this show if they want to hear more from
Speaker 1: you and your team.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We do live reviews of all the major television shows,
Speaker 2: including NXT and AW on Wednesday nights, and that those
Speaker 2: are available to everyone on the regular Pro Wrestling dot
Speaker 2: Net website. As far as the membership site, it is
Speaker 2: an ad pre version of the site and it comes
Speaker 2: with audio reviews of all the major television shows and
Speaker 2: pay per views. I reviewed both shows last night. Normally,
Speaker 2: John Moore is going to be tackling NXT and then
Speaker 2: Jake Barnett and I got together already on Wednesday before
Speaker 2: this conversation and discussed gave our first thoughts on the
Speaker 2: head to head battle with AW, and NXT is going
Speaker 2: to get Shake's perspective on things as well. And if
Speaker 2: you're interested in membership to the ad pre version of
Speaker 2: the website you want to hear an of audio content,
Speaker 2: just simply visit PW membership dot net for all the details.
Speaker 2: And also I want to direct you to my Pro
Speaker 2: Wrestling Boom podcast. This week's guest is Simon Gotch, former
Speaker 2: WWE wrestler now with MLW's Contry Unit, and it was
Speaker 2: a good conversation with Simon. Just do a search anywhere
Speaker 2: for Apple podcasts or anywhere you get your podcasts for
Speaker 2: the Pro Wrestling Boom and new shows typically drop on Wednesdays,
Speaker 2: maybe even occasionally Tuesdays. Now that for at least a
Speaker 2: little bit. That's at least a kind of a maybe
Speaker 2: a quiet day. Is there such a thing anymore? Well? No, yeah, not.
Speaker 1: Really Maybe Saturdays when AW start running.
Speaker 2: A pay per view, Yeah, w is gonna run pay
Speaker 2: per views, then I think it's becoming a pay per
Speaker 2: view day, and then like even kick back to watch football,
Speaker 2: and you never know, and they're going to drop some
Speaker 2: SmackDown announcement in the middle of a football game.
Speaker 1: I know, you got to keep your laptop. Yes, I know,
Speaker 1: I know. I mean it's exciting, you know, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and it's I'm glad that people are excited who listen
Speaker 1: and read our work. We have so much more to
Speaker 1: talk about. It is it is. It is nice going
Speaker 1: this long between talking about Roman reigns, in part because
Speaker 1: he's not, you know, doing a lot in recent weeks,
Speaker 1: and the thing he is doing is an anat event program.
Speaker 1: But I mean the bullet points that we have before
Speaker 1: we get to some of the usual WWE topics that
Speaker 1: rightfully have been at the top of the agenda for
Speaker 1: several years, the number of bullet points now to talk
Speaker 1: about pushes that down off the top thirty list. So
Speaker 1: it really freshens up I think the interesting things for
Speaker 1: us to analyze about this business. So let's do that.
Speaker 1: We talked about WWE statement and and we'll obviously by
Speaker 1: the time people hear this, they'll they'll be able to
Speaker 1: look at our analysis and see how how we prognosticated
Speaker 1: reading into what they meant. I don't think it's there's
Speaker 1: any denying that w b's in this for the long
Speaker 1: run with NXT.
Speaker 2: I just like I said, this is just ww We
Speaker 2: are good people and they knew they dominated in the
Speaker 2: Can you just save that clip and and replace everything
Speaker 2: else they said earlier?
Speaker 1: If that's the case, yes, that was them gloating about
Speaker 1: a big Vay theory. Okay, mark for edit if Needa,
Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about what people care about, hopefully
Speaker 1: more than the ratings. So the ratings obviously count and matter,
Speaker 1: and it's it's how it's how they keep scoring one way,
Speaker 1: but just show quality. You've watched both shows. I've watched
Speaker 1: both shows. I thought NXT had better wrestling, pretty decisively.
Speaker 1: I thought aw had absolutely a better, a better, larger
Speaker 1: than life atmosphere. And now the energy level on a
Speaker 1: pound for pound basis, if we use that term for fans,
Speaker 1: NXT probably had a e W beat. When you take
Speaker 1: the whole two hours into consideration, the full sale crowd
Speaker 1: was pretty sustained wildly into the action, in part because
Speaker 1: the action was better on the NXT show, but the AW
Speaker 1: fans for Cody and for a few other moments were
Speaker 1: just red hot, and so from an atmosphere standpoint, the
Speaker 1: full sale fans get some credit for helping, but in
Speaker 1: the end, you just can't compete with a giant, you know,
Speaker 1: NHL arena in DC that has fourteen thousand fans in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I really did kind of downplay that,
Speaker 2: and it took me about three seconds of going I
Speaker 2: watched NXT first last night, and then as soon as
Speaker 2: I started the AW show, I'm like, oh, man, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is this is much better. As far as just
Speaker 2: you know, visually and everything, n XT felt like a party.
Speaker 2: The AEW show felt like a much bigger party. I
Speaker 2: guess there's one way to put it. It really just
Speaker 2: to me, it blew away anything non WWE that we've
Speaker 2: seen in pro wrestling as far as just the production level,
Speaker 2: the look of the building. I thought they did a
Speaker 2: great job of capturing the size of the building. It
Speaker 2: wasn't like a ring of honor at MSG. You didn't
Speaker 2: even get to see the legendary seeing and they just
Speaker 2: never really did a good job of showing you how
Speaker 2: big that venue was impact has had. You know, back
Speaker 2: in their t Anda days had some bigger shows that
Speaker 2: just never looked or felt this big, and so you know,
Speaker 2: just on their first nights. As far as being a
Speaker 2: television product, aw blew away would others have just been
Speaker 2: unable to accomplish.
Speaker 3: I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host.
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Speaker 1: What is your number one critique of AW Dynamite in
Speaker 1: any category from last night?
Speaker 2: Oh? Many, A lot of little things. I do feel
Speaker 2: like Kenny Omega is not coming off like the star
Speaker 2: that he should. And I didn't worry too much about
Speaker 2: it going into last night because it was like, well,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter untill they get to TV. But I
Speaker 2: mean I would have done things a little differently. But
Speaker 2: I mean, his first appearance on the show was running
Speaker 2: out to save Riho, no entrance music, nothing, no fanfare,
Speaker 2: and yeah you did see him once backstage two, but
Speaker 2: I'm saying his first appearance in front of that live
Speaker 2: crowd that was weird, and then to follow that up
Speaker 2: with Okay, he's gonna go backstage and moments later come
Speaker 2: out to the being the Elite song. It's like, really,
Speaker 2: this guy's supposed to be your top star. I didn't
Speaker 2: think they did a good job with him on Night one.
Speaker 1: I agree, I'm not gonna be too critical because I
Speaker 1: think AW has booked out, you know, weeks and weeks
Speaker 1: of television according to Tony Kah, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of talent on that roster that was not featured. And
Speaker 1: I think I would have been critical of AW if
Speaker 1: they threw too much at viewers all at once. Now
Speaker 1: that said, I'm with you. One of my first the
Speaker 1: first thoughts that come to mind when I think what
Speaker 1: was most disappointing or puzzling about the game plan and
Speaker 1: execution of AW last night, and I have a handful
Speaker 1: of things that fit that category. It is how they
Speaker 1: made having John Moxley feel rather mundane as opposed to
Speaker 1: a celebration. There are I think they assume everybody who
Speaker 1: tuned in aw knew that Dean Ambrose had jumped, and
Speaker 1: I bet most did, but I think even those who
Speaker 1: did know want to see aw celebrate it and acknowledge it.
Speaker 1: Not like, oh my god, I can't believe we got
Speaker 1: this big time star from the other guys. But celebrate
Speaker 1: what Mosley is, who he is, what he stands for,
Speaker 1: let him talk. Make sure that people know when you
Speaker 1: have this massive first week audience that this guy's going
Speaker 1: to be utilized better. And we didn't get that. We
Speaker 1: didn't get any assurance that he's going to be utilized
Speaker 1: any better. He beat up a guy who saved Riho,
Speaker 1: who doesn't get his own ring entrance music. That's what
Speaker 1: happened in a kind of I think border cheesy coffee
Speaker 1: table glass spot with a mop handle eye roll for that.
Speaker 1: Please don't do that, so no with to me that work.
Speaker 2: It's like it's obviously a nod to the cleaner gimmick
Speaker 2: that he did, but I think it was also I mean,
Speaker 2: if you didn't like the little gag, like because I
Speaker 2: thought it worked on a different level if you're somebody
Speaker 2: who's not familiar with that, where it's just like, Okay,
Speaker 2: it's a cute little moment. He found a mop and
Speaker 2: he's doing it. Even if you had no idea what
Speaker 2: the cleaner gimmick was, but you know it's subjective. You
Speaker 2: didn't like the humor of it, No big deal. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't like when you're trying to do an intense
Speaker 1: feud between Moxley and Kenny, introducing the idea that a
Speaker 1: mop handle is going to be what you would reach
Speaker 1: for and that it would hurt that much. I mean,
Speaker 1: just the pure physics of it. It's not gonna hurt
Speaker 1: that much. To me, that looked like something Moxie would
Speaker 1: have been complaining about being asked to do and fighting
Speaker 1: against doing when he was in WWE, that he's so
Speaker 1: glad he doesn't have to do anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough, Yeah, I like, I totally hear that.
Speaker 1: Yeah so. But the others I agree with you on
Speaker 1: Kenny too. Aw needs to do more to let those
Speaker 1: millions of fans, perhaps multi millions of fans as the
Speaker 1: viewership comes out, know that Kenny Omega something special. He
Speaker 1: does not leap off the page as something special. If
Speaker 1: you haven't seen his new Japan work, if you don't
Speaker 1: know the acclaim that he has earned in so many
Speaker 1: quarters from people who have watched his rise in the
Speaker 1: last several years. They need to let people know that
Speaker 1: they Last night was a big opportunity to introduce their
Speaker 1: top stars to a brand new audience, and they didn't
Speaker 1: do that. I mean, Cody isn't a brand new start.
Speaker 1: Cody was great. That was the highlight of the show.
Speaker 1: His presentation is demeanor. I thought it was a great
Speaker 1: choice of opponent and I thought that worked for yes
Speaker 1: that I know Sam mcvarr was really you. I mean
Speaker 1: it was just yeah, that worked for me. And then
Speaker 1: I felt the main event was a little rushed. I
Speaker 1: wish it had a little more breathing space before the
Speaker 1: run in and a better explanation of why the match
Speaker 1: was continuing after the run in. I think you can
Speaker 1: explain it, but I think you need if you have
Speaker 1: that in your head, which you should, why the match
Speaker 1: is continuing, you need to fill viewers in on it.
Speaker 1: So I felt like maybe the shit ran a little late.
Speaker 1: I haven't heard that yet. So those are some of
Speaker 1: my critiques too, But overall, definite thumbs up. But if
Speaker 1: I had to choose between giving it an A or
Speaker 1: a B, I would give it a B. If pressed,
Speaker 1: I don't think it deserves an A grade. If if
Speaker 1: I was giving a letter grade.
Speaker 2: How about you, Jason, That's exactly what Jake Barnett and
Speaker 2: I gave it. We both gave it B grade and
Speaker 2: done weekly.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So let's jump to NXD for a second
Speaker 1: and talk about them. Finn Balor and Tomasso Champa. The
Speaker 1: surprises that showed up, adding some depth and some new
Speaker 1: faces to the NXT title mix with Adam Cole, a
Speaker 1: stellar fourteen minute match with Cole and Riddle, and then
Speaker 1: I thought a really good Candisell Array challenge of Shana Basler.
Speaker 1: I thought the take team match was high energy. Kyler
Speaker 1: Riley just continues to jump off the page as one
Speaker 1: of the underappreciated special wrestlers of this generation. I mean
Speaker 1: it's just the everything he does, facial expressions, body language, selling,
Speaker 1: innovative offense, timing, He's just he's He's one of my
Speaker 1: favorites to watch, and in this match showcase that, even
Speaker 1: though it wasn't meant to showcase him, he just jumps
Speaker 1: off the page. Everybody else was really good to So
Speaker 1: I just thought NXT put on a I think everybody
Speaker 1: in XT should be really proud and happy of what
Speaker 1: they put out there. I think they made the most
Speaker 1: of what they had. They put more of their starters
Speaker 1: out there than AW did. But a really, really good
Speaker 1: show and I'm absolutely worthy of watching live for dvring
Speaker 1: and not short changing them. This is a This was
Speaker 1: two good, two good shows. I would give the non
Speaker 1: to NXT being the better show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we gave. I'm trying to think. I think Jake
Speaker 2: was kind of torn between you. I settled in on
Speaker 2: an A minus. So I thought the NXT show was better.
Speaker 2: But when you know the other part of it too,
Speaker 2: Again is that that atmosphere the first time, So I
Speaker 2: totally get why people chose, you know, we assume that
Speaker 2: they chose more people chose to watch the AW show,
Speaker 2: and it just did feel even though the NXT show
Speaker 2: was better in quality, it's still you know, at the
Speaker 2: end of the night, I'm like, yeah, this is a
Speaker 2: win for AEW. So it's rare that, like the grading
Speaker 2: system doesn't really convey that, but it's true. I just
Speaker 2: watching the two shows, it was Yeah, this was a
Speaker 2: huge win for AW and not just viewership, but just
Speaker 2: the overall feel of it when everything was done is like,
Speaker 2: this show feels bigger, it feels more important, and I'm
Speaker 2: looking forward to watching that show more next week than
Speaker 2: I am the other, even though neither show did a
Speaker 2: good job of telling us what's ahead for next week.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, what did they announce on aew for next week?
Speaker 2: It's a tag title tournament match?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 2: Young Bucks Private party is at next week? I see.
Speaker 2: I'm not even sure They've thrown out a lot of matches,
Speaker 2: and I just kind of struggled to keep them straight.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think either either show did what they
Speaker 1: should have done to promote next week's show, And I
Speaker 1: think they were just scared to go too far into
Speaker 1: promoting something else because they were people channel flipping the
Speaker 1: side by side screens during as many commercials as they can,
Speaker 1: because there are some local spots where local cable and
Speaker 1: satellite companies have commercial breaks and they can't do the
Speaker 1: split screen on those. But the rest they did this
Speaker 1: was these shows both felt different because each was clearly
Speaker 1: cognizant of there being another show that fans could flip
Speaker 1: to if things slowed down at all. I didn't feel
Speaker 1: it was like crash TV nonsense, where you were just
Speaker 1: dizzy and nothing was making sense because they're so just
Speaker 1: phrenetically scared you would tune out because your attention span
Speaker 1: is two seconds. I didn't feel that there were a
Speaker 1: lot There's a lot of wrestling on this show and
Speaker 1: on both shows, and a lot of long matches. That said,
Speaker 1: there was still a little bit more of a sense
Speaker 1: of urgency and adrenaline on everyone's part, which again made
Speaker 1: it a really exciting night for people who like pro wrestling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just looking at the thinking with NXT. Their
Speaker 2: big advertisement was the Cruiserweight title match for next week,
Speaker 2: and I think they may have advertised something else, But
Speaker 2: is that really what you want to go with? I mean,
Speaker 2: it's great that you're going to have the match, but
Speaker 2: I definitely either you know, just kind of surprise people
Speaker 2: with it or pat it with two other big matches
Speaker 2: before that one. So is this a sign that NXT
Speaker 2: is going to slow down? And will both of these
Speaker 2: companies pull back on the split screen ad? I find
Speaker 2: them to be ineffective some of it. Yes, I'm covering
Speaker 2: the show. It's kind of a burden. It kind of
Speaker 2: you know, gives you know, we kind of enjoy those
Speaker 2: commercial breaks to catch up or just to take a
Speaker 2: breath whatever. But yeah, I mean just watching because I
Speaker 2: didn't cover aw live. I just sat back and watched
Speaker 2: the show, and I'm like, I'm struggling to look at
Speaker 2: the thing, and I'm struggling for to hold my attention.
Speaker 2: Even I don't find it to be very helpful. And
Speaker 2: I learned that with SmackDown. When they started doing the
Speaker 2: split screen, I thought it was a really good idea,
Speaker 2: and then I see it executed, and it's just like,
Speaker 2: to me, as soon as they you stop hearing the crowd,
Speaker 2: you stop hearing the announcers, it's commercial breaker, Like whatever
Speaker 2: I'm seeing isn't gonna matter anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm less, I have it. I appreciate them more
Speaker 1: than you. I don't I find keeping track of what's
Speaker 1: going on in the ring helpful. I agree with you, though,
Speaker 1: And it's, by the way, what you said will make
Speaker 1: advertisers happy, because advertisers want you paying attention to their ads.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm not.
Speaker 1: Well, no, no, I don't, but I know you're not.
Speaker 1: But they would be happy to know that it isn't
Speaker 1: as immersive that the wrestling is on if you don't
Speaker 1: hear the announcing, and it's a smaller picture. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are into a match appreciate
Speaker 1: not missing out on the EBB and flow of what's
Speaker 1: going on, but you can't help with a you know,
Speaker 1: a bigger screen for the commercial and the audio to
Speaker 1: also pick up on the advertiser message. If you're not
Speaker 1: gonna watch a commercial split screen, you're not gonna watch
Speaker 1: it not split screen, So it doesn't hurt advertisers that
Speaker 1: it doesn't work for you. But what I think is
Speaker 1: good is that it's the wrestling itself being on split
Speaker 1: screen isn't completely capturing your tension because that would work
Speaker 1: against it. I think they'll keep it up. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't see a downside even if you, and maybe
Speaker 1: rightfully so, question its effectiveness. You don't have to wait
Speaker 1: for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post show to find
Speaker 1: out what I thought of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown.
Speaker 1: Each week, you can check out my reports that are
Speaker 1: updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com.
Speaker 1: My written report will tell you what's happening in detail
Speaker 1: in case you missed the show, and it will also
Speaker 1: analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips on
Speaker 1: what I'm watching as it airs. So check it out
Speaker 1: every Monday Night and Tuesday Night at pewtorch dot com.
Speaker 1: That also applies to wwepayperviews. I cover those live at
Speaker 1: pw torch dot com with a detailed written report with
Speaker 1: star ratings, and of course you can find other TV
Speaker 1: reports from other contributors to pw torch such as nxt
Speaker 1: roh Impact Wrestling, and more. Check it out pwtorch dot
Speaker 1: com your first stop for TV and pay per view
Speaker 1: written reports.
Speaker 2: Because it costant money, I mean, actually, like I'm calling
Speaker 2: for collusion. Just call a truce on this. So if
Speaker 2: it is costing them money, like, hey, let's just make money, guys.
Speaker 2: Let's quit with the split screen and all that. We
Speaker 2: get other ways we can mess with each other. Let's
Speaker 2: not do this.
Speaker 1: If I'm buying an AD on either show, I want
Speaker 1: a split screen. If I'm an advertiser, I'm paying a premium,
Speaker 1: I want people to know. If I'm sitting on my
Speaker 1: couch and they stay with the match and I'm going
Speaker 1: to run to the fridge or let the dog out,
Speaker 1: and I'm into the match and an AD comes on,
Speaker 1: but I can still see the match. I'm gonna hear
Speaker 1: that Hardy's has a new burger that I might be
Speaker 1: interested in at won't probably not well, probably not me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I honestly couldn't tell you one thing that
Speaker 2: was advertised.
Speaker 1: Yes, but othereless if I'm more likely to stay in
Speaker 1: my chair and watch the ad than not, if I'm
Speaker 1: into a match and I get to continue keeping an
Speaker 1: eye on it in the corner of the screen, so
Speaker 1: I would. I would as an advertiser team.
Speaker 2: Do you know if it's is it is that the
Speaker 2: logic and they're actually going to pay a little bit
Speaker 2: more for it, or are they paying less because they
Speaker 2: don't have your full screen?
Speaker 1: Well, I would be shocked if they paid less, I
Speaker 1: would say, I would say they at least pay the same.
Speaker 1: If I'm an advertiser, I can't imagine why I pay
Speaker 1: less for that.
Speaker 2: I mean, well, I mean if all things are equal, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, if it is really equal, then so be it.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's I can still tune out the match
Speaker 2: because I know We're not going to get a pinfall,
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm not trying to, which is kind
Speaker 2: of what happens. But if you know there is if
Speaker 2: there are other people that are enjoying being able to
Speaker 2: watch that small screen and during the break cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's talk about Jake Hagar, the former
Speaker 1: Jack Swager returning on AW. Some mixed thoughts on that myself,
Speaker 1: and it depends on the follow up, and a lot
Speaker 1: of my feelings are not as strong pro worcon on
Speaker 1: ae W because it we've got two hours to work
Speaker 1: with and they've plotted out weeks and weeks of television.
Speaker 1: Jake Hagar as Jack Swager was a mid card under
Speaker 1: a achieving blue chip failure in WWE. I think that's
Speaker 1: his perception. A guy known more for you know, smoke
Speaker 1: breaks than passion for the business, a guy who everyone
Speaker 1: looked at as, oh God, we can turn him into
Speaker 1: a star in WWE, and then month after month, year
Speaker 1: after year, we're like, oh God, okay, we got to
Speaker 1: just give up on this guy. For all kinds of
Speaker 1: things that they use to gauge whether someone is worth
Speaker 1: really fully investing in match quality, attitude, behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: all that stuff, promo work. So all that said, it
Speaker 1: sounds like I just buried the guy. When he came
Speaker 1: on the scene, I was like, this is going to
Speaker 1: be one of the top stars of this generation. Now
Speaker 1: he's gone to Bellator, had some success on that level,
Speaker 1: and he's part of an atmosphere in AW that might
Speaker 1: not have some of the negatives. Then in his mind
Speaker 1: just made him think this is a job, not a passion.
Speaker 1: In WWE, I think an AAW guys are going to
Speaker 1: be around people who are like going to bring out
Speaker 1: absolutely the best and motivate them. Now, sometimes this is
Speaker 1: sort of like a small market team in aw't for
Speaker 1: a small market team, but relative to WARE, I guess
Speaker 1: a small market team getting a free agent who was
Speaker 1: sort of a bust elsewhere and you're trying to it's
Speaker 1: a reclamation project. And I get that feeling a little
Speaker 1: bit with him, but I think it might work. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'm being quote hopeful, you know, or overly optimistic, but
Speaker 1: I think in the AW atmosphere all of his incredible
Speaker 1: attributes might be better utilized. Number two, he's bigger than
Speaker 1: just about everybody in AW because AW on average, has
Speaker 1: a smaller roster than what he was around in WWE.
Speaker 1: On the main roster with the MMA credibility that he
Speaker 1: has on a smaller scale than Lesnar or Rond de Rousei,
Speaker 1: kind of in a Bobby Lashley level. Can he be
Speaker 1: reframed and are you optimistic Jason that this could actually
Speaker 1: turn out to be a really good acquisition where they
Speaker 1: get a lot more out of him than WWE did,
Speaker 1: because for the all the hang ups they had about
Speaker 1: him that led to him not getting a sustained push
Speaker 1: in WWE, some of that might be on WWE and
Speaker 1: now it's absent in aw AEW will utilize him better.
Speaker 2: I'm fine with him giving it a shot. I don't
Speaker 2: I would have had him come out the first time
Speaker 2: that Jericho attack Cody to end the show that way
Speaker 2: kind of felt like they're trying to showcase at WWE
Speaker 2: mid Carter as a huge acquisition. And I know he
Speaker 2: had WWE title runs, but I mean, I just know that. Okay,
Speaker 2: he left WWA and he had a chance to go
Speaker 2: out on the indies and show some passion there and
Speaker 2: he didn't. It just he's been very disappointing. But like
Speaker 2: you say, maybe in this environment things will be different,
Speaker 2: and I hope so. I think the way to use
Speaker 2: him isn't so much in the ring, until you know
Speaker 2: you see that that motivation is there. I'd kind of
Speaker 2: make him It's not the perfect comparison, but I'd make
Speaker 2: him big bubb Rogers. I'd put a suit on him
Speaker 2: and have him in Jericho's corner, have him interfere, do
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. Now, if you sense that, oh
Speaker 2: he's serious, he's committed to this, and you feel like
Speaker 2: you can more out of him, Okay, you know that's great,
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just don't feel it was a bit
Speaker 2: of a letdown to have him be kind of cast
Speaker 2: late in the show as this big surprise. And I
Speaker 2: hope that I've always you know, I always thought there
Speaker 2: was more to get out of this guy and than
Speaker 2: than wwe seemed to And then the more you hear
Speaker 2: the story, it's like, okay, well this is why, And
Speaker 2: you know, hopefully he's going to see this as another
Speaker 2: a new opportunity of fresh start and not just something
Speaker 2: he does on the side because he's more focused on Bellatore.
Speaker 1: And they overpaid because they didn't have any other surprise
Speaker 1: they could get their hands on. Yeah, yeah, I'm more
Speaker 1: optimistic than pessimistic. But a lot remains to be seen.
Speaker 1: I think there's different ways to utilize him. I like
Speaker 1: your your Big Bubba comparison. He can you know, he
Speaker 1: can be the new Ralphus, but who a Ralphus? Who
Speaker 1: kicks some ass, So we'll see I want to. I
Speaker 1: want to see this play out. I'm intrigued.
Speaker 2: I don't think has kicked a lot of ass.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to see where this goes. I'm not
Speaker 1: against them doing it, but I am you know, there's
Speaker 1: some cautionary yellow flags being waved about aw making more
Speaker 1: out of it. I do not want them to treat
Speaker 1: Jack Hager, Jake Hager as a bigger deal than Kenny
Speaker 1: Omega or John Moxley, not even close. Let him earn it.
Speaker 1: But I think there's a way to book him that
Speaker 1: would be satisfying. And if he's a big guy with
Speaker 1: some WWE crad that some of their guys can beat
Speaker 1: in competitive matches but win decisively, that that's a good
Speaker 1: that's a good roster spot to have with someone like him.
Speaker 2: Was I the only one when in the crowd started shanting,
Speaker 2: we the people that wanted Lax to go, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right and just kick his ass?
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe okay, let's we'll go back, probably to some
Speaker 1: awn nx T stuff. But I don't want to get
Speaker 1: too much deeper in before just talking about tomorrow's SmackDown
Speaker 1: is is SmackDown on broadcast television on Fox with The
Speaker 1: Rock and all the hype by Fox Network and the
Speaker 1: brock Lesnar Kofi Kingston match and everything that that that
Speaker 1: we know about and that we might not know about
Speaker 1: what's going to happen on that show. Is that in
Speaker 1: competition as the bigger story of the week than what
Speaker 1: we just saw last night.
Speaker 2: I think it is with casual fans, because you know,
Speaker 2: I hear from some of my casual fan friends they're
Speaker 2: really excited about SmackDown a lot more than I am.
Speaker 2: Where I'm kind of like, oh yeah, we still have
Speaker 2: that to go. I don't get me wrong, I'm looking
Speaker 2: forward to it. It's just been a crazy week. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I do think with the more hardcore Rabbit fan last
Speaker 2: night was, you know, kind of super Bowl night at least,
Speaker 2: you know, with the with the first head to head battle,
Speaker 2: and I think there is a little bit of oh yeah,
Speaker 2: SmackDown too, And even though it's The Rock and it
Speaker 2: is Fox, it has with a certain audience I think
Speaker 2: taking a back seat. As crazy as that seems, when
Speaker 2: you think back to when that announcement was made that
Speaker 2: Fox acquired the rights to smack Down for all that money,
Speaker 2: to think that something else would kind of bump it
Speaker 2: out of the new another wrestle company, you know, NXT
Speaker 2: and another wrestling company would kind of make SmackDown take
Speaker 2: a back seat for a lot of people. It seems crazy,
Speaker 2: but it has I agree.
Speaker 1: I'm really curious. I mean, this is where this is
Speaker 1: a big story. AW and tn T are gonna be
Speaker 1: happy with a certain ratings level. Tony con told me
Speaker 1: Tuesday this is He's not getting into details, but he said,
Speaker 1: this is a long term deal with TNT. This is
Speaker 1: not a war that's won or lost the first week
Speaker 1: or the first month. I mean, it can be lost
Speaker 1: to fate. If we come out of the gate with
Speaker 1: two hundred twelve thousand viewers, that would be disastrous. With
Speaker 1: in there, I don't know that there's much they could
Speaker 1: do with Jericho and Omega and and Moxley and the
Speaker 1: signings that they have in the cross promotion that went
Speaker 1: into it, I don't.
Speaker 2: Think there's imagine how frustrated that, like, what did we
Speaker 2: do wrong in the countdown show? All those people watched
Speaker 2: them showed up.
Speaker 1: Exactly we drove them away. So that said, Fox paid
Speaker 1: way more money for SmackDown than AW and NXT budget
Speaker 1: wise have combined and the rights fees and all that.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just from a pure financial stadpoint, it's
Speaker 1: a much bigger deal. Fox Broadcast Network is reaching potentially
Speaker 1: way more fans than USA or TNT do, and it
Speaker 1: is featuring the biggest movie star and future President of
Speaker 1: the United States, Dwayne the Rock Johnson. And I mean
Speaker 1: there's all these things going brock Lesner bigger star than
Speaker 1: anybody on Wednesday Night. So it has all that going
Speaker 1: for and it is high stakes. This is the biggest
Speaker 1: TV money contract by far for any company ever, and
Speaker 1: they have put tons of promotion into it. Expectations are
Speaker 1: super high by WWW and Fox. I mean, remember how
Speaker 1: network subscription predictions were for WWB network and how much
Speaker 1: below that it turned out. You know, they had talked
Speaker 1: themselves into something that you and I knew wasn't reality
Speaker 1: in terms of subscribership out of the gate. I worry
Speaker 1: they've talked themselves into thinking that there's going to be
Speaker 1: a much bigger boost in viewership than there will be.
Speaker 1: I think SmackDown will outdraw anything R smackdon have done
Speaker 1: in recently, probably by you know, maybe fifteen percent, twenty percent.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna like add fifty or seventy
Speaker 1: percent though to the viewership. I think they think it will.
Speaker 2: Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
Speaker 2: relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
Speaker 2: your passion.
Speaker 4: Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
Speaker 4: a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
Speaker 4: they thinking? Do you want to join a discussion on
Speaker 4: what AW is doing right and what they could do
Speaker 4: to improve?
Speaker 1: Then join me Joel and me Greg for the All of.
Speaker 4: The Conversation Club every Friday on the pw torch Live Cast.
Speaker 4: Fee search pw Torch in your podcast app and subscribe
Speaker 4: to pw torch Daily Cast or stream our shows directly
Speaker 4: from pw torch dot com. Find full details on the
Speaker 4: pw Torchdailycast lineup at pw torchdailycast dot com.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, the drawing power of the rock is something else.
Speaker 2: And I do wonder if we're kind of a bit
Speaker 2: in the bubble on this just because of you know,
Speaker 2: the our listenership, our readership is so heavily focused on
Speaker 2: n xtae W. I just I don't have a good
Speaker 2: feel for this one. I lean in your direction though,
Speaker 2: where I don't think it's going to be this massive number.
Speaker 2: And even if it is, you know, let's say they
Speaker 2: do a great number for the Rock. Let's say they're
Speaker 2: able to keep a good portion of that audience for
Speaker 2: the draft. What happens in week three? You know, what
Speaker 2: are you doing? It's just their product is not in
Speaker 2: a great place right now. All those cosmetic changes on
Speaker 2: Monday were nice, but the core of product is still
Speaker 2: in a rough place. And I don't know that they
Speaker 2: are just going to be able to suddenly change things
Speaker 2: and change the way they do things for the better
Speaker 2: or SmackDown. I think we would have seen some of
Speaker 2: that leading up to the launch of SmackDown, and I
Speaker 2: actually felt like SmackDown kind of fell off a cliff.
Speaker 2: There was all these storyline gaps and it's just it's
Speaker 2: been a mess of a show. I hope they will us.
Speaker 2: I hope they really surprise us, but I don't feel
Speaker 2: all that optimistic about WWE long term. On Fox.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they've This is sort of like NXT was a
Speaker 1: loaded show. AW featured a big six men te Chris, Jericho,
Speaker 1: Mister Partners, Omegan the Bucks. That's a big match for AW.
Speaker 1: And but what was the I guess Pock and Hangman
Speaker 1: Page was the second biggest match marquee wise on that show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean women's title match. I don't maybe contends, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't, just because of who's involved and they're fairly
Speaker 2: unknown to a lot of viewers. I would think that
Speaker 2: Pock and Page was probably bigger in the eyes of
Speaker 2: most people.
Speaker 1: And then I mean Cody Sam mcavar turned out to
Speaker 1: be really good, but it felt like a Cody Rhoads
Speaker 1: showcase match with someone who will be competitive but lose,
Speaker 1: and that's what happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but man, I would actually put that number two
Speaker 2: because I think there was real appeal and seeing Cody
Speaker 2: because of the family history on TNT, you know all
Speaker 2: of that. I actually think that it wasn't because of
Speaker 2: Sam and Govar, who ended up doing a great job,
Speaker 2: but I think just the image of seeing Cody in
Speaker 2: that ring opening up the show like that was pretty cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So SmackDown has a loaded lineup, NXT had a loaded lineup,
Speaker 1: and AW had a solid lineup. I think AW paced
Speaker 1: themselves in a way that if they didn't win the
Speaker 1: ratings by a wide margin, they'd go well we're pacing ourselves.
Speaker 1: You know, they'd be the one kind of putting out
Speaker 1: the pr statement this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Speaker 1: We didn't just put a pay per view quality lineup
Speaker 1: out there on the first week. And you know NXT
Speaker 1: can't do what they did against us every week. Now.
Speaker 1: I don't think they have to tell that story and
Speaker 1: spin it because I think they'll win the ratings. But
Speaker 1: that said, going your point on SmackDown, this is an
Speaker 1: unsustainable lineup to match, so they need to do a
Speaker 1: better job than AW did taking advantage of this audience.
Speaker 1: I mean the XFL is a classic go to example
Speaker 1: when you for big rating first week, big drop off
Speaker 1: after it. You need to make that good first impression
Speaker 1: and get people hooked on the product. Hopefully there are
Speaker 1: some angles and just an overall look at the show
Speaker 1: in a subtraction of some things that drive people away
Speaker 1: in the addition of some things that get people excited, angles,
Speaker 1: promos setting up next week. They need to be in
Speaker 1: the business of not just presenting what they do, but
Speaker 1: promoting what they do one in two weeks ahead of
Speaker 1: time and Friday night that is vital to sustaining whatever
Speaker 1: audience surge they have because of the Rock and Brock
Speaker 1: and all the hype. You're right this, I mean, we
Speaker 1: can talk about this week in the ratings battle. I'm
Speaker 1: already really interested in how Wednesday Night counter programs each
Speaker 1: other based on this week's numbers. But SmackDown is a
Speaker 1: huge story. The rating. This week's big, But even bigger
Speaker 1: is what's the average the next three weeks?
Speaker 2: Exactly? Yep, And you're talking about they do advertising events
Speaker 2: and things. Convinced to be bothered to change his way?
Speaker 2: I mean, will Fox executives be able to get through
Speaker 2: to him? Just do Fox executives? No? I mean, they
Speaker 2: paid a lot of money for this product, and I
Speaker 2: just questioned how much they understand the wrestling industry. Were
Speaker 2: they the ones who had that weird push that convinced
Speaker 2: that they shouldn't have wrestling during commercial breaks? I mean,
Speaker 2: if so, that's really frightening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it is, It is. It is what
Speaker 1: what Let's let's talk, uh, not the business side for
Speaker 1: a second, but the actual what's going to happen on
Speaker 1: SmackDown tomorrow night. Brock, Lesnar, Kofi Kingston, I'm I'm intrigued
Speaker 1: by this Ray mysterio story, and I almost I looking
Speaker 1: at Brock beating up Ray and Dominic and You're like,
Speaker 1: what where is that going? It's not it's not leading
Speaker 1: to Brock versus Ray and Dominic and handicap match. It's
Speaker 1: not leading to Brock versus Ray one on one. You know,
Speaker 1: they haven't portrayed Ray as in his prime. They haven't
Speaker 1: portrayed him as this scrappy underdog who could take down
Speaker 1: a Brock who's not taking himself seriously or is leaving
Speaker 1: himself vulnerable. I don't see them telling that story, So
Speaker 1: why did they do that? There's gotta be some reason
Speaker 1: is this. And then you have Paul Hayman's promo. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of people who fancy themselves tough guys in
Speaker 1: WWE and outside of WWE, and I was thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: is that an acknowledgement to a w Then he goes
Speaker 1: and in the MMA world and sports and I thought
Speaker 1: that's setting up SmackDown. Somebody from the MMA or sports
Speaker 1: world is going to step up to Brock in response
Speaker 1: to Brock bullying Dominic and Ray. And that would also
Speaker 1: give them an exit from having to do not They
Speaker 1: could have Brock squash Kofee and then still do an angle.
Speaker 1: But if they want to get out of that and
Speaker 1: keep the belt on Kofe, they could still they would
Speaker 1: have an angle to distract from it, but not seem
Speaker 1: like a complete cop out. And that's where I wonder,
Speaker 1: if we're not going to see like a Kane Velaska
Speaker 1: show up and defend Ray and Dominic, what has that
Speaker 1: crossed your mind? Where do you What do you think
Speaker 1: that angle on Monday with Ray means to what we
Speaker 1: see tomorrow night with Brock and Kofe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think it plays a part. I mean,
Speaker 2: number one, I've loved seeing Dominic be destroyed. I've been
Speaker 2: waiting for that and I was so happy when it
Speaker 2: finally happened.
Speaker 1: But he's just a twenty two year old teenager Jason.
Speaker 2: Ouch. But yeah, it was I thought a good angle.
Speaker 2: And yes, I think it was done on Monday for
Speaker 2: a reason. You know, they could have not just being
Speaker 2: well Brox here, we got to do something with him.
Speaker 2: I do think it probably plays into that. As far
Speaker 2: as like Caine ve last, I can see the Fox
Speaker 2: execs thinking like this is a big deal. I don't
Speaker 2: know that it is. I liked Cane Velaskaz now I've
Speaker 2: dripped it away from UFC for quite a while, but
Speaker 2: I think I saw the peak of Cane Velasquez there
Speaker 2: and it's been a while. How big of a deal
Speaker 2: is this way? Do you keep closer tabs on? I
Speaker 2: know he's wrestling in Mexico now, but you keep closer
Speaker 2: tabs on and the MMA world than I do. So
Speaker 2: does he still have is your crossover appeal here?
Speaker 1: I think it's worth doing. But I think it's worth
Speaker 1: doing because of the story that you would tell for
Speaker 1: people who don't know it's a big deal that the
Speaker 1: moment it starts, but because of how you frame it
Speaker 1: and how Brock and Hayman react and where you go
Speaker 1: with it. Because Kane has a legit background that you
Speaker 1: can talk about and exposure on Fox Network for UFC,
Speaker 1: and you know, an up and down career, but a
Speaker 1: really good career, a notable USC heavyweight heavyweight career. I
Speaker 1: think you can turn that into something special. It's not
Speaker 1: like if I'm creating a dream scenario for what to
Speaker 1: do on the first SmackDown and I got my pickup
Speaker 1: anything in the world. This is more of a consolation
Speaker 1: when some A plans don't work out. But I think
Speaker 1: it's it would be worth doing if they do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that goes over.
Speaker 2: If there's going to be people freaking out that it's
Speaker 2: came to Alaskas or people going who the hell is is? Oh?
Speaker 1: I think there'll be some of that, and that's that's
Speaker 1: again the job of the announcers and Hayman's reaction, a
Speaker 1: Lessond's reaction to sell this idea and then you know,
Speaker 1: if you can get some rights to footage, that would
Speaker 1: be good too. But I mean, I think you can
Speaker 1: turn it into something it's I don't think it's it's
Speaker 1: a I think it's a way to let people know
Speaker 1: SmackDown on Fox is not just another SmackDown. There's more resources,
Speaker 1: there's more effort to be to do things that are special.
Speaker 1: But again, it has to be sustainable beyond the first week.
Speaker 1: The the Shane McMahon Kevin Owens match, is this, Kevin
Speaker 1: Owens wins and Shane goes away, or does Shane win
Speaker 1: and NXT doesn't count, So Kevin Owens gets to go
Speaker 1: there and they deepen the NXT roster to try to
Speaker 1: compete better with ae W. Those seem like the two
Speaker 1: more likely most likely scenarios. I think they will do
Speaker 1: an actual finish, but I am in I'm intrigued to
Speaker 1: see what happens. I'm talking myself into the possibility of
Speaker 1: either outcome.
Speaker 2: Can we just get Kevin Owens to go to NXT
Speaker 2: and Shane still goes away.
Speaker 1: That actually would be that would be option A.
Speaker 2: Yeah, first things first, Shane McMahon goes away. That's the
Speaker 2: most important part of this. But I yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I have a bad feeling that Shane stays. They're gonna,
Speaker 2: oh we need McMahon's on SmackDown and we're on Fox now.
Speaker 2: But and then that would mean that Owens does go
Speaker 2: to NXT, which, hey, they can use another big name
Speaker 2: down there that they're not doing much with on the
Speaker 2: main roster that they kind of ruined on the man
Speaker 2: roster lately. There's that bad booking that I was talking
Speaker 2: about with SmackDown where things have just gone downhill going
Speaker 2: into the Fox premiere rather than oh, they're really ramping
Speaker 2: up for this. So I mean, but I don't have
Speaker 2: a strong feeling about that one. I could kind of
Speaker 2: see it going either way. If Shane's just ready for
Speaker 2: a break if they feel like they've overexposed or one
Speaker 2: of the things they want to do on SmackDown on
Speaker 2: Fox is just basically say we're not doing the McMahon
Speaker 2: family drama stuff, or at least they're not going to start.
Speaker 2: They'll always find a way to get back to it.
Speaker 2: But if that's something like they feel like they need
Speaker 2: to do differently, it is not, you know, focus on
Speaker 2: the First Family of Wrestling and just kind of make
Speaker 2: this more of a sports centric show, then it makes
Speaker 2: sense goes away. So yeah, I don't have a strong
Speaker 2: feeling about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, give yourself a reason to look forward to
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Speaker 1: paper copy. I uh, I'm I'm just this this week
Speaker 1: is is fascinating to me. And oh yeah, the other
Speaker 1: the other side of this whole week is is reinventing
Speaker 1: how pro wrestling is presented. You mentioned earlier Raw and
Speaker 1: the announcing changes in the new season. We've got new
Speaker 1: like a horns, brass instruments playing the then now forever
Speaker 1: thing now on on the little brand stamp at the
Speaker 1: beginning of shows. We had the new Raw music at
Speaker 1: the opening, some other production tweaks, obviously different announcers, and
Speaker 1: then a w had Jim Ross, Tony Shavani and next
Speaker 1: caliber We've got a new team on on SmackDown, a
Speaker 1: little more familiar uh with with Cole and Graves, but
Speaker 1: no third person in the booth as of this point,
Speaker 1: which is good. That's an I think a Fox influence.
Speaker 1: But when I'm what's that a.
Speaker 2: Blass surprise at the Impire. I mean, I'm just throwing
Speaker 2: it out. There's a long shot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, I mean that's don't don't get me
Speaker 1: going on punk right now, lose my lose track of
Speaker 1: my topy here. So production wise, I am. I'm into
Speaker 1: production values, the aesthetics, all of that stuff. I pay
Speaker 1: attention to that stuff. I get excited when there's a
Speaker 1: tweak to a logo, you know, like that's me. Some
Speaker 1: people are like whatever, just show me the wrestling in
Speaker 1: the ring, and that's you know, everybody's different. But Fox
Speaker 1: cares about that stuff, and I am really I'm really
Speaker 1: intrigued with how Fox contributes to reimagining the presentation of wrestling.
Speaker 1: And I was a little let down by AW in
Speaker 1: that regard. I think AW put on a really top
Speaker 1: shelf looking wrestling show with nothing new. And I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: there's a little and I missed this on the post
Speaker 1: show last night when I talked about the ratings that
Speaker 1: had a tiny little graphic next to the wrestler's names
Speaker 1: when they came out saying singles record overall record, and
Speaker 1: that's a nice touch. And right now, well, yes, it's
Speaker 1: it's very small, but I can clue you and Jason.
Speaker 1: They were all ones and zeros, you know, like, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot to go on yet, so I
Speaker 1: understand them downplaying that a little bit. But beyond that,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's some really cool shots with the camera
Speaker 1: of the building and that's great. I mean, I've seen
Speaker 1: it before, and this was some new angles because it's
Speaker 1: not the same, you know, Kerbman and Kevin deciding where
Speaker 1: to put them, But there wasn't a lot of other innovation.
Speaker 1: I wanted that energy outside the building to be conveyed
Speaker 1: to me. I wanted something to feel more different in
Speaker 1: some ways. So it just wasn't quite as imaginative as
Speaker 1: I hope. I have higher hopes for SmackDown in what
Speaker 1: Fox does to create a different vibe besides just a
Speaker 1: new stage, a new logo, and a new entrance song
Speaker 1: or opening theme, I hope.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, you know, they're already clearly toying
Speaker 2: with the cameras and so it looks like they're going
Speaker 2: to be shooting it a little bit differently in that way.
Speaker 2: And I mean, hopefully something, anything, is going to get
Speaker 2: Kevin Donne out of this fonk query because you know,
Speaker 2: everything is the same same way that it's been for years.
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong about Raw, It's been said a million times.
Speaker 2: I really hope that Fox does kind of bring them
Speaker 2: out of that comfort zone and we do get a
Speaker 2: different look. Now, sometimes be careful what you wish for,
Speaker 2: but I do have faith in Fox just you know,
Speaker 2: as a fallow were of the sports they cover, did
Speaker 2: they do a great job with that? So hopefully all
Speaker 2: you know, any changes that happen or for the better,
Speaker 2: and hopefully we do get some changes.
Speaker 1: So let's go back to AEW for a moment and
Speaker 1: talk about where you think they go from here in
Speaker 1: terms of the not the top shelf talent, but some
Speaker 1: of the other names that they're going to try to
Speaker 1: build up. Sammy Cabara had had his moment. Who else
Speaker 1: do you think is going to end up being in
Speaker 1: that top tier, top of the second tier on their roster.
Speaker 1: I ran another poll. I've got a pull for that.
Speaker 1: I ran a poll on Twitter yesterday or maybe it
Speaker 1: was this morning, asking who has the better roster because
Speaker 1: we've heard, you know, Kenny Omega sort of in character saying,
Speaker 1: you know, they just be dark match opening guys, they
Speaker 1: won't even make TV the NXT guys, which I don't
Speaker 1: like say that stuff, even if you're doing another guys
Speaker 1: being in character. I think it came across as not classy,
Speaker 1: no matter how you frame it. And but Tony Conn said,
Speaker 1: you know, he thinks their roster is better, and I
Speaker 1: don't have problem with that because he's not one of
Speaker 1: the wrestlers, he's the promoter. And I thought he said
Speaker 1: it more diplomatically, but I know there's people in NXT
Speaker 1: pushing back to me by text just saying, come on,
Speaker 1: AW was a million dollar production with a bunch of
Speaker 1: minor league guys and NXT was a bunch of major
Speaker 1: league guys in a smaller venue with top shell production
Speaker 1: making the best of it. I think that's an overstatement,
Speaker 1: in an exaggeration. But how is AW on depth? I
Speaker 1: asked on on Twitter, how do the roster's compare. It's
Speaker 1: pretty close, but forty five percent that NXT has a
Speaker 1: better roster. Thirty six percent said AW has the better roster,
Speaker 1: and I said, if you're trying to win a ratings war,
Speaker 1: that was my context, not best matches. If you're trying
Speaker 1: to sell tickets, sell pay per views and win a
Speaker 1: ratings war. What roster would you want? Forty five to
Speaker 1: thirty six percent advantage for NXT and eighteen percent saying
Speaker 1: it's a toss up? What's your vote? And then also,
Speaker 1: how is AW doing once you get past the top
Speaker 1: four or five six acts?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, I think the obvious thing is that there
Speaker 2: is more star power right now in all elite wrestling
Speaker 2: than there is an NXT. Ben Ballor came down for
Speaker 2: a reason. And so my vote overall, I think I
Speaker 2: do lean slightly in favor of all elite wrestling. I
Speaker 2: think there's if you're now, if you're just looking for
Speaker 2: great matches, okay, then well even that's tough because you
Speaker 2: also have to factor in people like Pentagon Junior in Phoenix.
Speaker 2: It's not just the singles wrestlers, and you know that
Speaker 2: those guys are capable of doing both and doing a
Speaker 2: great job with it. So man, but I just think
Speaker 2: for me, the edge goes to ae W mostly because
Speaker 2: of that star power that they have that NXT lacks
Speaker 2: right now and in time, you know, I mean, NXT
Speaker 2: has a deeper roster, they have that whole developmental pool
Speaker 2: to work with. But you know, we've seen shows already
Speaker 2: where they're still you know came I like Cameron Grimes.
Speaker 2: They haven't really done a whole lot with them yet.
Speaker 2: They had I forget the Chinese woman's name, who Zioli.
Speaker 2: I believe it is a long way to go there,
Speaker 2: there's a there's still It's not taking any away from
Speaker 2: the talent in NXT. It's just they haven't had the exposure.
Speaker 2: You know, they're they've been on the WWE network in
Speaker 2: Hulu and that's it, and so it's going to take
Speaker 2: a little bit of time for them to come off
Speaker 2: as bigger stars. Now, if you're somebody who's been watching
Speaker 2: those shows, then you may feel completely different. You may look, well,
Speaker 2: Matt Riddle is a star and MJF is not for
Speaker 2: you just to pick somebody's name. I think it's all
Speaker 2: kind of in the eye of the beholder on this,
Speaker 2: But to me, it's just somebody who's familiar with both sides.
Speaker 2: I do lean a e W.
Speaker 1: When I look at the roster. I put them side
Speaker 1: by side in a story I did on Kenny Omega's
Speaker 1: comments at pw torch dot com and and here here's
Speaker 1: the rosters that I line up there's some changes now
Speaker 1: in the wrestlers that I would pick. I didn't put
Speaker 1: a ton of thought into who I excluded, but I
Speaker 1: grabbed fifteen names from each roster. If you look at
Speaker 1: the top tier, you have Adam Cole, Matt Riddle, Johnny Gargano,
Speaker 1: Tomaso Champa, velveteen dream. You would add Finn Ballard to
Speaker 1: that list now, and that's your top tier singles, because
Speaker 1: after that you have Kashita Dominic, did Jakovic, Keith Lee,
Speaker 1: Killian Dane, Cameron Grimes. Who you mentioned, Pete Dunn, Walter Damian,
Speaker 1: Damian Priest Did I say that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, I had Priestley in my head. I might No,
Speaker 1: that's Jason Prisley. And then and you had some of
Speaker 1: the other breakout star tournament guys too, who you know
Speaker 1: might might rise. So but if you look at a
Speaker 1: w's top tier, you have Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, Cody,
Speaker 1: John Moxley, Hangman, Page and Pack probably battling for that
Speaker 1: number five spot.
Speaker 2: He gets it.
Speaker 1: I agree. I think Page has been that his stock
Speaker 1: has dropped and Pox has gone up. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: MGF Sean Spears, Dustin Rhodes, I would say, uh, Darby
Speaker 1: Ellen got a little bit of a rub, but he's
Speaker 1: you know, he's not a top tier guy. Joey Janelle
Speaker 1: is going to be kind of in that second tier,
Speaker 1: midcard MAXs. So when you look at that, I mean
Speaker 1: it to me, that just seems competitive. Cole Riddle, Gargado,
Speaker 1: Champa Omega, Jericho, Cody Moxley. I mean I give the
Speaker 1: edge to to AW I think in that very top tier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's because those guys are established, because some
Speaker 2: of them have been on WWE television, where a lot
Speaker 2: of those NXT guys just you know, when it comes
Speaker 2: to main roster television, they may have had a cup
Speaker 2: of coffee there. So yeah, like I said, it's just
Speaker 2: going to take some time. But yeah, they're comparable. But
Speaker 2: I think that early star power is going to help
Speaker 2: carry ae W along with is you know, the feeling
Speaker 2: of this is new and different.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So on the NXT front, who has a chance
Speaker 1: to be some or I shouldn't say it was a
Speaker 1: chess who do you want to see them get behind
Speaker 1: a little more? And I don't have much doubt NXT's
Speaker 1: going to take advantage of who they have and have
Speaker 1: good reasons for not pushing someone if they think they're
Speaker 1: not ready. I know there's some people frustrated with, say
Speaker 1: Keith Lee not getting more of a push given his
Speaker 1: rep on the end scene. But I think the more
Speaker 1: you hear about it, the more you go no, you know,
Speaker 1: I think they're pacing him the right way for a
Speaker 1: variety of reasons. But is there anyone on the NXT
Speaker 1: front who you see, as you know, a month or
Speaker 1: two from now, you hope that they're a big deal.
Speaker 2: You know, he would have been the guy Keith Lee. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but like you say, there's there's factors there. I do
Speaker 2: have real faith in Paul Levec and his team when
Speaker 2: it comes to that that if somebody, you know, if
Speaker 2: there's if somebody is not being pushed, it's not because
Speaker 2: they don't see what the fan see. It's there's a
Speaker 2: reason for it. So I just I'm kind of patient
Speaker 2: in that way when it comes to what NXT does.
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean they always hit home runs with the talent,
Speaker 2: but they usually hit at least a triple. They get
Speaker 2: the most out of their talent, and so I mean, yes,
Speaker 2: there's I'd like to see them, you know, it's it's
Speaker 2: still early, but I want to see them do more
Speaker 2: with Cameron Grimes, and I do you know, ultimately want
Speaker 2: to see them do more with Dijah Covich and and
Speaker 2: and also Keith Lee, but it's still you know, fairly
Speaker 2: early and with the Dojakovich because he's had some injuries.
Speaker 2: And so I am I missing anyone? Does anyone jump
Speaker 2: out to you? No?
Speaker 1: No, I think you hit the names that we're on
Speaker 1: on on my list too. But I think by I
Speaker 1: think there are enough names for them to keep things fresh.
Speaker 1: I mean one of the concerns with with Finn Balor
Speaker 1: and tomasco Champus showing up that adds freshness to the
Speaker 1: top NXT title scene for Adam Cole and the Key
Speaker 1: With a two hour weekly show with NXT going into
Speaker 1: this Wednesday night Live on USA, than people were concerned
Speaker 1: who watched NXT every week and knew the pace of
Speaker 1: the booking. Can they battle for ratings, fill two hours
Speaker 1: and do it in a sustainable way and still build
Speaker 1: up takeover specials and not not low those matches early?
Speaker 1: Are they in position to do that? And I think
Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings about adding the Cruiser weights to
Speaker 1: the mix because I think there's a stigma on cruiser
Speaker 1: weights that can pull down, that can pull down the
Speaker 1: NXT guys, and and but bringing ballerin. He didn't have
Speaker 1: a great finish on the main roster, but I think
Speaker 1: that people who watch NXT look at him as well.
Speaker 1: That's on Vince, not on him, right, So he's a
Speaker 1: good addition. I'm not as concerned with the names you
Speaker 1: mentioned and then the additions and the return of Champa.
Speaker 1: I think they're in fine shape. Uh and and they
Speaker 1: have got a good women's division. It's not super deep,
Speaker 1: but it's deep enough to be sustainable with a two
Speaker 1: hour show. So I wasn't super worried going in, and
Speaker 1: I'm even less worried now given the way that they're
Speaker 1: promoting the show.
Speaker 2: I like NXT's women's division more than I do a
Speaker 2: w's at the moment. And you know, they may have
Speaker 2: a bigger reach where they can bring in different people
Speaker 2: internationally and things like that than WWE will. But I
Speaker 2: can't say that I'm really wowed by the women's division
Speaker 2: so far in AW. I think Nyla Rose is still
Speaker 2: a work in progress. Britt Baker, They're they're really positioning
Speaker 2: her in a strong way, but she's a wrestling dentist.
Speaker 2: Like why it's great that she has two careers. It's
Speaker 2: very impressive, and it's something that I think you certainly
Speaker 2: go out of your way to have the commentary team acknowledge.
Speaker 2: I don't make that all about you know, that's her gimmick,
Speaker 2: Like that's who she is, and you have the dentist
Speaker 2: logo on the big screen when she comes out. No,
Speaker 2: she'd let her just be Britt Baker, who happens to
Speaker 2: be these things that the broadcast team will tell you about.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, no, I agree.
Speaker 7: I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the
Speaker 7: new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
Speaker 7: pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
Speaker 7: noteworthy events dictate.
Speaker 8: And I'm Chris Lansdale as we come at the ever
Speaker 8: changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate an era
Speaker 8: with no lack of talent, but a real need to
Speaker 8: create some new staves you can stream then you seven
Speaker 8: stop oncaus Now from Pro Wrestling Talk.
Speaker 1: And on the I think it's important have strong women's
Speaker 1: divisions on both companies, and I think they both need
Speaker 1: to aggressively scout. I have more faith at this point
Speaker 1: in the performance Center and the annxt he set up
Speaker 1: and its trainers to bring along wrestlers who need some
Speaker 1: polish faster than aew. And when I was talking to
Speaker 1: Tony Kahn in the interview right here on the Way
Speaker 1: Keller Proson podcast earlier this week, he talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: letting some wrestlers on a case by case basis work
Speaker 1: the end scene. And I think there's wrestlers where he
Speaker 1: shouldn't just be saying yes to requests. He should be
Speaker 1: aggressively pursuing dates for a lot of his talent. And
Speaker 1: there are wrestlers where the risk of injury and wear
Speaker 1: and tear is much less than the risk of hurting
Speaker 1: somebody in the ring or looking winded, or not having
Speaker 1: their timing or just not getting better. Aw has more
Speaker 1: wrestlers on television that they're going to have in rotation
Speaker 1: who are not ready for prime time based on the
Speaker 1: standards we're used to, and that's where getting them work
Speaker 1: and even subsidizing to a degree them getting work on
Speaker 1: the indie scene with trusted promoters, with good wrestling rings
Speaker 1: and good you know, knowing they have doctors, not just
Speaker 1: fly by Night. You know, shoddy setups get some of
Speaker 1: those mid card and lower card wrestlers more work.
Speaker 2: I agree, yeah, absolutely, I think he nailed it. Not
Speaker 2: quite ready for prime time. They're going to be featured
Speaker 2: in prime time, but some of them know they're not
Speaker 2: ready for it the next He does have that performance center,
Speaker 2: and they do have the system, and they can send
Speaker 2: people over to the UK for a while if they
Speaker 2: want to. It'll be interesting to see. I mean that
Speaker 2: they have some talented people working behind the scenes in
Speaker 2: aew if they do off to start something along those line.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're going to be as grandiosa
Speaker 2: as the Performance Center, but they may need to do
Speaker 2: something because WWE is doing such a good job with
Speaker 2: that scouting, and I think AW would point you, yeah,
Speaker 2: but look at the roster we were able to build.
Speaker 2: But if you're just going to keep missing out of
Speaker 2: the next wave, you know, yes, there's people that slip
Speaker 2: through the cracks or you get good timing. As far
Speaker 2: as when this started doing, a number of contracts were up.
Speaker 2: That's great and they'll be able to lure some free agents.
Speaker 2: But I think WWE is miles ahead of everyone when
Speaker 2: it comes to recruitment and just you know, binding that
Speaker 2: the hidden gems out there.
Speaker 1: And it's something AW needs to understand. On week one
Speaker 1: isn't as much of an issue as the marathon is.
Speaker 1: And when you look at WWE statement and you parse
Speaker 1: it was that wording was chosen carefully. That was I'm
Speaker 1: sure something Triple H crafted with WWEPR. And there is
Speaker 1: an incredible amount of pride, not arrogance, but confidence and
Speaker 1: pride in NXT that their talent and their booking and
Speaker 1: their resources can overcome the whatever handicap the full sale
Speaker 1: smaller setting has. Let's also keep in mind AW is
Speaker 1: not always going to be in a glossy eighteen thousand
Speaker 1: seats NHL arena in a major market. They're going to
Speaker 1: be in some smaller buildings too. That's going to close
Speaker 1: the gap on the incredible difference in terms of the
Speaker 1: visuals that we saw last night. They're going to run
Speaker 1: in some other big buildings, but they're going to be
Speaker 1: running in some you know, under ten thousand seat buildings
Speaker 1: and not necessarily be selling out all the buildings either
Speaker 1: and having a crowd that rabid or on site correspondent
Speaker 1: on the way Keller prosing Posho last night said he
Speaker 1: ran into a lot of people who came from all
Speaker 1: kinds of areas of the Northeast, you know, driving hours
Speaker 1: to go to that show. Some of this is and
Speaker 1: this is where NXT doesn't want to be leaned back
Speaker 1: and kick their feet up. But they have reason to
Speaker 1: think this was some early excitement that is likely to subside,
Speaker 1: and there's a honeymoon period a little bit with viewers
Speaker 1: giving ae W a little more of a break than
Speaker 1: they would if some of the same things were done
Speaker 1: on Raw or SmackDown or even n XT, because you know,
Speaker 1: they are the new the new brand, and people have
Speaker 1: a fierce loyalty towards them. I mean people are fiercely
Speaker 1: loyal on both sides. I mean they're you know, Twitter
Speaker 1: will show you that there's people who anything that is
Speaker 1: seen as a slight at WWE, they'll come at you
Speaker 1: same thing with aew people who are who are really
Speaker 1: into it. So I yeah, I think I think AW
Speaker 1: has a has reason to not get to not look
Speaker 1: at this number and be too content that they can
Speaker 1: just kind of copse and I don't think they will,
Speaker 1: but I think they should be more concerned about four
Speaker 1: or five months down the line than they are the
Speaker 1: next few weeks. I think the next few weeks are
Speaker 1: probably in pretty good shape. We'll see. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: do you expect to drop off next week?
Speaker 2: Jason, Oh boy. You know it's hard to stay without
Speaker 2: seeing that number, but probably you know, it's just we
Speaker 2: kind of saw that with NXT two, that that there's
Speaker 2: going to be you get that that first night buzz
Speaker 2: and then the next week is not as much. Plus
Speaker 2: people are gonna have yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe they generated so much it won't but it's it's
Speaker 2: hard to say. I would hope that NXT or that
Speaker 2: ae W. Don't get cocky about it, you know, publicly
Speaker 2: you want to celebrate. Behind the scenes, by all means,
Speaker 2: do it, but you know, be smart about this, and hey,
Speaker 2: there's you know, half the teams in Major League Baseball
Speaker 2: one on opening Day, and there's only going to be
Speaker 2: one team that wins the World Series. You I sure
Speaker 2: hope so, but yeah, but I mean, that's it's it's
Speaker 2: one night, and you do have the benefit of this
Speaker 2: being your premiere, So be smart about it, and I
Speaker 2: hope they will be there. There's been a couple of
Speaker 2: times where I'm like, hey, guys, really, but you know,
Speaker 2: hopefully this won't be one of them.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean there's some people are are big talkers
Speaker 1: in a w and others aren't. And I I yeah,
Speaker 1: they need to measure their words to to keep the
Speaker 1: goodwill of their fans, but also have the bravado and
Speaker 1: confidence that Eric Vishchoff had early on with Nitro that
Speaker 1: I think. You know a lot of people like brazen
Speaker 1: confidence and and in pro wrestling especially, there's that That's
Speaker 1: something that will appeal to fans too. You want to
Speaker 1: be you want to be confident that you belong in
Speaker 1: this game and that you earned the rating and you're
Speaker 1: going to keep the rating and not be like, oh sucks, wow,
Speaker 1: we're just so fortunate to win one week.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I don't want that. But they got up. They gotta
Speaker 1: be careful about the the pr oh for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean they I I just want to
Speaker 2: see them tone it down a little bit. But the
Speaker 2: bravado like Tony Khan, like the comment that he gave Tom,
Speaker 2: I like that, that's fine. Like you said, it's coming
Speaker 2: from him, it's not coming from one of the wrestlers.
Speaker 2: And I think Tony has shown good sense when it
Speaker 2: comes to the things he says publicly. I don't think
Speaker 2: he's just you know, the comedy made to Todd wasn't
Speaker 2: something where he just got angry and said something he's
Speaker 2: going to regret. I don't think anyway. I think he's
Speaker 2: pretty calculated with what he says. And it's kind of
Speaker 2: the rest of the crew, you know, you just you
Speaker 2: don't know what's going to happen. Kenny Omega has been
Speaker 2: kind of the wild card. I know some of it's
Speaker 2: in character, some of it's not, But I mean, just
Speaker 2: look at his reaction to when they ran the Evolve
Speaker 2: show opposite the Fight for the Fallen event. He got
Speaker 2: all worked up about like, calm down, you knew this
Speaker 2: was going to happen. Are you're really going to react
Speaker 2: this way? And you know, it's just things like that
Speaker 2: that kind of make you hope that they're gonna be
Speaker 2: smart about this and not to take two grand of
Speaker 2: a victory lab.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, Okay. I want to go back to row
Speaker 1: for a moment because we have not touched on the
Speaker 1: Lana Lashly russev angle that WWB chose to be the
Speaker 1: defining moment more than the Fiend attacking Seth again at ringside,
Speaker 1: the defining moment in memory image of their season premiere.
Speaker 1: I don't know if ww dot com still has I'm
Speaker 1: gonna check right now the side by side of No
Speaker 1: they move ten XT good. They have the side by
Speaker 1: side of the Fiend attacking Seth as a splash image
Speaker 1: on their page, next to lash Le and Lana making
Speaker 1: out what are they? What are they going for there?
Speaker 1: And how does it? How do you get behind?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: I talk about people liking brazen confidence and wrestling Russa
Speaker 1: just standing leaning on the top rope, looking like there's
Speaker 1: nothing he could do about it? Is that bad? Or
Speaker 1: is that how someone would react if they were watching
Speaker 1: their wife suddenly make up with somebody on natural television?
Speaker 2: Just be like, you know, it depends on the person. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I think there's some people that would fly off the
Speaker 2: handle and go crazy and go after the guy. There's
Speaker 2: some people that might do what he did. I could
Speaker 2: actually see that where somebody's just like okay, I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess we don't know where his character is coming from,
Speaker 2: so yeah, I think my first instinct would be to
Speaker 2: go crazy. But I could see somebody just like, what
Speaker 2: is happening? Why is she doing this? This is humiliating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So from a storyline standpoint, is they're setting up
Speaker 1: Russev against lash Ly with Lana and Lashley's corner. Is
Speaker 1: that is that what the new season A w needed
Speaker 1: or is this something going somewhere else.
Speaker 2: I think that Lana's just efflusian. She'd be making out
Speaker 2: what somebody new every week. And I have no idea.
Speaker 2: I know I think they are. I think it's going
Speaker 2: to be lash Leigh and Lana together for a while.
Speaker 2: And I really questioned the decision to go with Lashly
Speaker 2: for this role. I don't know that he's This doesn't
Speaker 2: seem like it really plays to his strengths.
Speaker 1: What are his strengths? And it sounds facetious. So I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to be like making about.
Speaker 2: It, but what being like a mini not a mini
Speaker 2: is not the right word, but kind of being a
Speaker 2: brock lesnar clone. He was really good that year twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen was the year that Impact wrestling was pretty damn
Speaker 2: good and he would a big part of it. He
Speaker 2: was just a badass of a maytime and you know,
Speaker 2: getn't back down from people, and he was delivering confident
Speaker 2: promos and that's the guy that I wanted to see
Speaker 2: show up in WWE, not whatever this has been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what else from raw jumped out to you,
Speaker 1: Jason on the on the season premiere, good or bad?
Speaker 1: And in fact, let me actually be more specific on that.
Speaker 1: What do you think of the announcing team?
Speaker 2: I think Vic Joseph's going to shine more when they're
Speaker 2: on pay per view and he's calling full on Matt
Speaker 2: you know, longer matches and things. I think that's really
Speaker 2: but he did a good job of just steering the ship.
Speaker 2: You know. That's something I remember Jim Ross had talked
Speaker 2: about with Michael Cole that, you know, after he had
Speaker 2: gone back for the first time in a while, he
Speaker 2: couldn't believe all the things that Michael Cole had to
Speaker 2: do and transition to this, transition to that, and he
Speaker 2: really praised what a good job that Cole did. And
Speaker 2: I think we saw Vic Joseph do a nice job
Speaker 2: with that. And you know, that's key because I think
Speaker 2: that's part of the reason that maybe mar Ronaldo didn't
Speaker 2: to click on the main roster. I don't know if
Speaker 2: he was as smooth that that as they would have
Speaker 2: liked or they just you know, could have certainly been
Speaker 2: some personality issues. Lord knows there have been with Vince
Speaker 2: and JBL and everything else. But but I do wonder
Speaker 2: if that's part of it, because Marrow is a great,
Speaker 2: a great announcer, but in NXT he doesn't have to
Speaker 2: you know, plug a billion sponsors and everything else like
Speaker 2: they do on Raw. And that may change a little
Speaker 2: bit now. But the biggest thing for me though, the
Speaker 2: biggest takeaway from the broadcast team, And this is also
Speaker 2: an issue with all elite wrestling, who and the hell
Speaker 2: are do O Madden and Rickish and caliber? If you
Speaker 2: are a new viewer, I know why am I supposed
Speaker 2: to respect their opinion? Tell me who they are? Now?
Speaker 2: You and I know, I know he's Brendan Williams and
Speaker 2: he played in the NFL, and he's been in the
Speaker 2: NXT for a little bit, and you know, he may
Speaker 2: still wrestle, may not, who knows. But if you're just
Speaker 2: somebody that's only watching Raw, no idea who this guy is,
Speaker 2: and they're just acting like you should.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have known who he was. I watched the NFL,
Speaker 1: But I'm not like you.
Speaker 2: Know, arts, I only know it because I remember seeing
Speaker 2: when he when he first went to NXT, there were
Speaker 2: some stories about NFL player going to NXT. I thought
Speaker 2: I'd have no clue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, I totally agree with you. And by
Speaker 1: the way, I don't think an announcer should be asking
Speaker 1: questions like does this happen every week? You're the color
Speaker 1: commentator we're supposed to listen to, and you're advertising the
Speaker 1: fact that you don't watch RAW. I mean, And it's
Speaker 1: not so much just the damage done from that, but
Speaker 1: it shows the judgment and the mindset going into his job,
Speaker 1: which is I'm the new guy, I'm here for other reasons,
Speaker 1: and I just I was like, just dumbfouted by that.
Speaker 1: And then also in the middle of Brock Lesner intimidating,
Speaker 1: beating up brain intimidating Dominic deal, Madden was like, why
Speaker 1: isn't Dominic standing up and being a man because he's
Speaker 1: being portrayed as a hapless teenager and it's brock freaking Lesnar,
Speaker 1: you idiot, Like you can't make Dominics seem like he
Speaker 1: should be standing up to Brock. The idea is nobody
Speaker 1: would want to stay out of to Barock nome er
Speaker 1: Man would, and he made it seem like Dominic was
Speaker 1: was the not the heel, but someone you should look
Speaker 1: down upon for not doing more. It's freaking brock Lesnar.
Speaker 1: Deo should be saying, how you know, like how intimidating
Speaker 1: it is and how tough this is. But Dominic can
Speaker 1: do nothing about it because he's not brock Lessner. He's
Speaker 1: not in his league.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one thing for me to look down on him,
Speaker 2: but after the color commentator, but yeah, he deal is
Speaker 2: in a tough position. Number one, When the hell is
Speaker 2: he called de O Madden? Just snock he's Brennan Williams.
Speaker 2: Quit it. I know AW is a threat now and
Speaker 2: oh my god, Brennan Williams could jump to ae W
Speaker 2: and use the name that we helped build it. Just
Speaker 2: stop it. I don't like it. It sounds so hokey
Speaker 2: and ridiculous. There's no there's nothing, not like he's established
Speaker 2: himself an NXT and people know him from this. Just
Speaker 2: go with the real sounding name, go with his real name,
Speaker 2: and and it's you know, he's just thrust into this.
Speaker 2: He's barely done any commentary on two five Live. Next thing,
Speaker 2: you know, they're just throwing him on the raw. I
Speaker 2: don't really understand it. Hopefully he's going to grow into
Speaker 2: that role. It's it's not his fault. That's kind of
Speaker 2: the approach I'm taking with him as we start this
Speaker 2: is whatever mistakes he makes, I mean, I can't play.
Speaker 2: He's learning on the job.
Speaker 1: Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AEW Dynamite
Speaker 1: in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
Speaker 1: on the show or a topic you want us to
Speaker 1: address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch
Speaker 1: dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's
Speaker 1: anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want
Speaker 1: us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments,
Speaker 1: that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com.
Speaker 1: We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think
Speaker 1: of what we're saying, and let us know what you
Speaker 1: want us to talk about and ask us specific questions.
Speaker 1: Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com. All right, Jason,
Speaker 1: we just stepped away for a few minutes and in
Speaker 1: that time ratings came in, so we're adding a segment
Speaker 1: onto the show here to look at the ratings? What's
Speaker 1: your what's your headline? For the number one point just
Speaker 1: over one point four million for AW Dynamite on TNT,
Speaker 1: just under nine hundred thousand for NXT on USA, down
Speaker 1: about just over one hundred thousand from last week, So
Speaker 1: they lost about fifteen percent of their viewership from last
Speaker 1: week up against AW.
Speaker 2: You know, gosh, I don't even know what the headline
Speaker 2: necessarily is other than AW wins the Night one battle,
Speaker 2: and they did so sizably. I think it's if my
Speaker 2: math is correct, which it often is not, it's a
Speaker 2: five hundred and eighteen thousand viewers separating the two. I
Speaker 2: guess I'm a little surprised. I thought there would be
Speaker 2: a little more. I thought it'd be a little closer,
Speaker 2: even you know, when the words started to come out
Speaker 2: that A seemed to be taking having the Night one lead,
Speaker 2: and then wwe issuing the statement, I still thought it
Speaker 2: was going to be a little bit closer than it
Speaker 2: turned out to be.
Speaker 1: I gave so many predictions the last month and in
Speaker 1: the last week completely. I want to go back. I
Speaker 1: gave a very precise prediction over the weekend on the
Speaker 1: VIP weight Teller hotline. I don't remember what that number was,
Speaker 1: but I want to see how close I came, because
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to be super precise. So
Speaker 1: if I'm because if I, if I, if I use
Speaker 1: rounded numbers and I come close, that's not as fun
Speaker 1: as being right on. So I got to go back
Speaker 1: and listen to my ratings prediction. But here's to me.
Speaker 1: Your headline is right eight. My headline on pw torch
Speaker 1: dot com which we post, I posted, and I know
Speaker 1: you got ratings up. During our brief break here in
Speaker 1: the podcast recording, my headline was AW beats NXT by
Speaker 1: a by wide margin. NXT drops, AW fall short of
Speaker 1: approaching SmackDown and raw numbers. AW decimates NXT in one
Speaker 1: key demo, and that key demo is eighteen to eighteen
Speaker 1: to thirty four year old males. This is like, just
Speaker 1: this is where T and T is going to be
Speaker 1: most happy. I mean, they care about eighteen to forty
Speaker 1: nine a lot, but eighteen to thirty four AEW of
Speaker 1: eighteen to thirty four males point seventy three for AEW
Speaker 1: point two six for NXT.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yes, So what that means is, and there's a lot,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot to the ratings, and I'll
Speaker 1: do a long update on the VPA Keiller hotline tonight,
Speaker 1: going into all the details on this to kind of
Speaker 1: put in perspective, because I know a lot of people
Speaker 1: have questions on how this stuff works. But the what
Speaker 1: that indicates is kids, women and older men who watch
Speaker 1: Ron SmackDown and have heard of NXT were more likely
Speaker 1: to watch NXT than discover AW, and AW clearly, through
Speaker 1: social media, has been building a following among younger males
Speaker 1: at a rate that exceeds WWE's popularity, and that came
Speaker 1: through here. That also is why in the last eighteen hours,
Speaker 1: I have thought AW would win by a wider margin
Speaker 1: and started upping my estimate from around I don't know
Speaker 1: as at one point four to one point seven million.
Speaker 1: I think is kind of where most of my number
Speaker 1: predictions were for AW. So I was pretty spot on
Speaker 1: except for the last eighteen hours. I started thinking, maybe
Speaker 1: they're going to approach two million, maybe they'd even beat RAW.
Speaker 1: But that was because my feedback that I was getting
Speaker 1: was from our demographic, which is eighteen to thirty four
Speaker 1: year old males. And then eighteen to forty nine males too,
Speaker 1: but it was two to one and three to one
Speaker 1: in those demos. That's why I started getting higher in
Speaker 1: terms of what I thought AW would do in my predictions.
Speaker 1: Again in the last eighteen hours. Now we're brought back
Speaker 1: down to earth because we don't reach the same demographic
Speaker 1: that TNT and USA do you know, for better, for worse,
Speaker 1: whatever you know. So that's why it was a little closer.
Speaker 1: Still a wide margin of victory though for AEW. So
Speaker 1: now the question is what happens next week? Do you
Speaker 1: think it's pretty similar, Jason? Or do you think AW
Speaker 1: had that curiosity factor but nxto win some people back.
Speaker 2: You know, the more I think about this, the more
Speaker 2: I think that it's going to be fairly similar because
Speaker 2: I think that, yeah, there was a curiosity factor there,
Speaker 2: but AEW delivered, and I think that is you know,
Speaker 2: they're going to maintain a lead over NXT for the
Speaker 2: foreseeable future. I could be way off, but I just
Speaker 2: had they delivered this number and the show had been
Speaker 2: a clunker, well then it'd be like all bets are
Speaker 2: off for next week. Maybe maybe the viewership for both
Speaker 2: goes down and it probably you know, you may see
Speaker 2: a little bit of a decline in the overall numbers
Speaker 2: for both, but I think the lead is going to
Speaker 2: be there for a W because they came through. You know,
Speaker 2: we graded them earlier at NXT, graded higher overall, but
Speaker 2: ae W did what they needed to do and should
Speaker 2: it should have been good enough to maintain that or
Speaker 2: to keep people coming back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think it'll be similar.
Speaker 1: Now what I'm curious about is on SmackDown Friday with
Speaker 1: his huge audience, and especially Raw on Monday, does W
Speaker 1: do does w w B go? Okay, now we know
Speaker 1: the starting point. Now let's get more behind NXT. Does
Speaker 1: does Vince think? Yeah, let's let's have some some more
Speaker 1: special appearances. I know they showed Stephanie and Mark Henry,
Speaker 1: Kevin Nashcott Hall in the crowd. Who am I leaving off?
Speaker 1: There's someone else there next to Stephanie? Who was next
Speaker 1: to Stephanie?
Speaker 2: Yeah? There was somebody with Mark Henry Stephanie and I
Speaker 2: can't I've brought a bird.
Speaker 1: All right, no video, But like I wonder if WB
Speaker 1: will try to you know, not fortify, but add Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know fortify the NXT product was
Speaker 1: something to give a little boost, run an angle or
Speaker 1: have a promo and NXT to promote. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not like they have a big match announced for next
Speaker 1: week that they could promote on raw that would necessarily translate.
Speaker 1: So I mean my guess is they won't do that,
Speaker 1: and they'll just go with the flow and and and
Speaker 1: assume that AW with all the hype, all the buzz,
Speaker 1: the NFL ads and all that, that's not sustainable for AW.
Speaker 1: But WWB cross promoting NXT is sustainable and free, and
Speaker 1: so I think there's some confidence in the idea that
Speaker 1: this is a marathon, not a sprint. But those demo numbers,
Speaker 1: Jason are ominous.
Speaker 2: They are you know, I mean, this is what ww
Speaker 2: gets they promote. I don't even know who they're promoting
Speaker 2: to it. For a long time it was kids. And
Speaker 2: when you see the product and you see what they
Speaker 2: did on Monday with Lana and Lashly making out hardcore
Speaker 2: on the stage, that's not for kids. So I mean
Speaker 2: it's like they're trying to reach everybody or aew. You
Speaker 2: could see it in the crowds for their events. They
Speaker 2: were reaching a younger audience and it was hard to tell. Okay,
Speaker 2: is that younger audience there because they're the traveling fans
Speaker 2: that go to star cast and things like that, or
Speaker 2: is this just you know we're gonna start. Is this
Speaker 2: going to be the norm? Are they reaching that younger
Speaker 2: demographic in general? And they have I don't have the
Speaker 2: numbers in front of me because I'm afraid will do
Speaker 2: with my computer if I I'm trying to have tuboty
Speaker 2: windows open at once. Yeah, I did notice the they
Speaker 2: did well with They did much better with women as well. Away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't have the female demo in front of me.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get those later. The adult demo aew
Speaker 1: more than doubled NXT and so the eighteen to forty
Speaker 1: nine adult they more than doubled, and the male eighteen
Speaker 1: to forty nine they more than doubled by a wider margin.
Speaker 1: So that would indicate if we averaged that out, that
Speaker 1: they aw handily won in the women eighteen to forty
Speaker 1: nine category, but not by the same margin as the men.
Speaker 2: I took a chance. There's no smoke coming out of
Speaker 2: my computer, so that is good. In the eighteen to thirty,
Speaker 2: we'll just go eighteen to forty nine demographic female. Yeah,
Speaker 2: point four to four for AEW for NXT point two three.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so that's a pretty similar almost a two
Speaker 1: to one margin.
Speaker 2: Not quite Yeah, yep, yep, they did well there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I mean, I I think AW is very happy.
Speaker 1: I think TNT is very happy. I don't think they're elated.
Speaker 1: I think they might have started. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: there was some PlayStation view numbers out that were like
Speaker 1: three to one. Again, that's going to be a younger
Speaker 1: demo that's on that device. So we're learning as we
Speaker 1: go what the indicators mean. And if I'm asking people
Speaker 1: at PW Torch on Twitter, which show are you watching? Well,
Speaker 1: if they're watching one show live, but a bunch of
Speaker 1: them watched NXT right afterwards, that closes the gap. Because
Speaker 1: Nielsen is counting the same night, DVR viewership and live
Speaker 1: viewership as the same thing. They're not counting viewership this
Speaker 1: morning or this afternoon or tomorrow in that first number,
Speaker 1: but that first number includes DVR viewership. Also, if you
Speaker 1: watch both shows thirty minutes each, you're counted as a viewer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they're adding up how many total people watched a
Speaker 1: certain amount of time of each show. That's why the
Speaker 1: rating itself was closer than the viewership number, because the
Speaker 1: rating is actually the average minute by minute, and aw's
Speaker 1: gap was smaller point eight four too point sixty six,
Speaker 1: So viewership difference was wider because people were channel flipping,
Speaker 1: but the rating actually wasn't that far apart, and it's
Speaker 1: within reach for NXT to close that gap. Even if
Speaker 1: the demos don't look as good to the network executives
Speaker 1: in the overall ratings race, it's not a huge gap,
Speaker 1: so they both this is fun, this is competitive.
Speaker 9: Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want to learn
Speaker 9: some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Pass cast every
Speaker 9: Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Speaker 9: Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
Speaker 9: taking you through the Torch issue from that very weak
Speaker 9: follow news from the WWF and WCW, and all the
Speaker 9: happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
Speaker 9: the Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties
Speaker 9: Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.
Speaker 2: Well, it's also right now. There's always going to be
Speaker 2: something you know that's just the way it works with
Speaker 2: sports and everything else, but just I have four million
Speaker 2: viewers watching ESPN for the wild Card baseball game last
Speaker 2: night too, So I'm guessing there's some potential wrestling viewers
Speaker 2: in that bunch that, had there not been a baseball
Speaker 2: playoff game, may have been watching one or both of
Speaker 2: these shows.
Speaker 1: I think this rating is going to motivate both companies
Speaker 1: to work harder, and because it feels competitive, I think
Speaker 1: NXT thinks, hey, we're within reach to pull out a
Speaker 1: win if we do the right thing for the next
Speaker 1: six weeks. And I think AW feels a little vulnerable
Speaker 1: because this is the first week rating with a ton
Speaker 1: of hype. I think they feel good about their show.
Speaker 1: I wish they did a better job promoting next week show.
Speaker 1: I wis both companies did. Yeah, neither gets a great
Speaker 1: grade in that regard, so maybe that sort of evens
Speaker 1: out or off sets that being a major factor. But overall,
Speaker 1: the aesthetics of the AW show is so major league.
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's going to watch that and go oh,
Speaker 1: I mean this is minor league. I only want to
Speaker 1: watch major league stuff. The downside would just be the
Speaker 1: depth of talent and not featuring there their real big
Speaker 1: attractions better than they did if you're AW so people
Speaker 1: are really hooked on seeing the Moxley story go forward.
Speaker 1: He did a brief brawl and a stunt bump. We
Speaker 1: didn't hear from him. We don't know what his mission
Speaker 1: statement is. You know, I think people would have been
Speaker 1: let down by that. Kenny Omega doesn't seem like a
Speaker 1: major star, and you know, the bucks we didn't learn
Speaker 1: anything about if you're a new viewer to AW and
Speaker 1: certainly a lot of people were new viewers. So that's
Speaker 1: why I think where there the weakest aspect of last
Speaker 1: night show is Jason, just real quick and wrap up
Speaker 1: on this. What'd you think of Hogan and Flair on
Speaker 1: Miss TV? Because that was what I was going to
Speaker 1: ask you about if we didn't get the ratings.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess Flair was. I mean, they were both
Speaker 2: who they are. You know Flair, you could tell they
Speaker 2: they get paranoid every time he's out there. In this
Speaker 2: time they hit Randy Orton's music rather than let Rick
Speaker 2: give the introduction that he was literally going to and
Speaker 2: I mean Flare's fun, you know, and they don't like
Speaker 2: you know, they like to keep everything very regimented, and
Speaker 2: he goes very much against that, where Hogan was just
Speaker 2: Hogan I more important the way, I guess the big
Speaker 2: question that I have now when it comes to these numbers,
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of people are going to
Speaker 2: when does the meddling begin? When you know, does Vince
Speaker 2: McMahon stay away? I mean, Paul Lavec has been very
Speaker 2: confident in saying that, but it's Vince McMahon, and Paulavec
Speaker 2: has also been very confident in saying that, you know
Speaker 2: that being at full sales not a factor's and you know, hey,
Speaker 2: maybe it won't be over time. I think it is
Speaker 2: more more than I expected it to be. But I
Speaker 2: think he was pretty adamant with that, maybe too much,
Speaker 2: really defending being in the smaller venue, saying it's like
Speaker 2: going into a concert and seeing a band in a
Speaker 2: smaller venue as opposed to a stadium, and it's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's great for the people who are there. That's it's
Speaker 2: a very good analogy if you're there. But if I'm
Speaker 2: watching a concert at home on television, doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 2: I'd actually prefer the stadium and see all those people
Speaker 2: rocking out. So you know, there's I think he went
Speaker 2: a little too aggressive in defending, you know, just kind
Speaker 2: of downplaying the idea that, hey, them being in a
Speaker 2: bigger venue is no big deal because we have full sale.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean that's like saying, you know, I like
Speaker 1: that my kid tries hard at football even though he
Speaker 1: doesn't start, or you know, like I mean, it's sort
Speaker 1: of like it's like a nice thing to say if
Speaker 1: you're trying to put a positive spin on something. But
Speaker 1: I think they'd rather be in a big arena.
Speaker 2: And I wonder if this you know, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: one show and naturally there's gonna be a lot of overreaction.
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean they're not going to be among those overreacting.
Speaker 2: Who knows if they're going to start going. You know what,
Speaker 2: we got to get this thing out as soon as
Speaker 2: we can. You know, full sale is great. I obtain
Speaker 2: the relationship, but you know, we need to get this
Speaker 2: show on the.
Speaker 1: Road, absolutely, and I think they have the star power
Speaker 1: to do it. And with you know, nine hundred thousand
Speaker 1: million people watching the USA plus some cross promotion on
Speaker 1: Ron SmackDown, I think they can sell tickets. Tan xt
Speaker 1: tapings and obviously they can sprinkle in a dark match
Speaker 1: with the main roster guy if they want to try
Speaker 1: to help draw some fans who who only want to
Speaker 1: attend if they can see you know, Charlotte or Becky or.
Speaker 2: Seth, or they can bring back end Zoe and just
Speaker 2: tour it is two of five live again and see
Speaker 2: how that goes.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, all right, Jason, Thanks always fun. Check out
Speaker 1: Jason dot Everyone should check out your work at pro
Speaker 1: wrestling dot net and search pro wrestling Boom to listen
Speaker 1: to your podcast and follow your brand on Twitter at
Speaker 1: pro wrestling Net. I think I get it. Oh wait
Speaker 1: it go awesome, Go Twins, go Vikings, and go Wild,
Speaker 1: go Wild. Yes sorry, Minnesota sport sports teams are all
Speaker 1: having relevant days.
Speaker 2: Ahead, well two of the three. I don't know about
Speaker 2: the Purple one anymore, but that's another story for another day.
Speaker 1: All right, sounds good, So follow me on Twitter at
Speaker 1: the Wade Keller. Follow our brand at PW Torch on Twitter, Instagram,
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Speaker 1: out pw torch dot com every day for breaking news,
Speaker 1: live TV coverage, live pay per view coverage, including this
Speaker 1: Sunday for Helen a Cel. We can't even do a
Speaker 1: preview show because there's not enough matches announced yet for
Speaker 1: the hell n SL pay per view and it's not
Speaker 1: even a top five topic this week, which is weird
Speaker 1: going into a pay per view. But we have a
Speaker 1: lot on the ratings, So if you're interested in the
Speaker 1: ratings numbers and in what they all mean, in the
Speaker 1: demographic breakdowns and industry reaction from what I hear from
Speaker 1: sources as I continue to reach out to people in
Speaker 1: NXTAW and the TV industry, be sure you're checking out
Speaker 1: pwtorch dot com. I'll also cover all of this in
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Speaker 1: Tomorrow Night, Friday Night back on the Red Brand the
Speaker 1: Way Keller promissing post show, we'll have the SmackDown on
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Speaker 1: our switchboard holds up. It got jammed from so much
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Speaker 1: email the show. Wadekeller podcast at pwtorch dot com. Right
Speaker 1: below this show on the Blue brand feed the Way
Speaker 1: Keller Prosing podcast. Feed my two and a half hour
Speaker 1: interview with aw president Tony Kahan, a must listen interview.
Speaker 1: Put it at the top of your list. It's that good.
Speaker 1: Feedback's been great on it, Tony, which is great. Also
Speaker 1: a couple of days before that, we put up a
Speaker 1: best of interview with John Morrison, who's back in WWE.
Speaker 1: You can go back about six years to when he
Speaker 1: left WWE to get his take on some controversial aspects
Speaker 1: of WWE that he was sort of willing to get
Speaker 1: into and sort of not in some cases, and thoughts
Speaker 1: about his future. A real a fun interview and informative
Speaker 1: with callers email questions, and a lot going on with
Speaker 1: his career at that time after leaving WWE. So that
Speaker 1: is also worth downloading and checking out if you haven't yet.
Speaker 1: We already did our AW Post show on Wednesday night
Speaker 1: and the Raw Post Show on Monday night. Our postmacdoone
Speaker 1: show coming up Friday night on the Red Brand, The
Speaker 1: Way Keller Prosing Post Show. But don't forget. The PW
Speaker 1: Torch Daily Cast has you covered with a two hour
Speaker 1: NXT Post show with Kelly Wells, Tom Stoup and Nate Lindberg.
Speaker 1: They talked for two hours about NXT on USA and
Speaker 1: then be on the lookout later today for the Elite
Speaker 1: Major Impact episode of the Daily Cast with Mike McMahon
Speaker 1: and Andrew Socheck going in depth on AW plus some
Speaker 1: impact and major league wrestling talk. Just search PW Torch
Speaker 1: on your podcast app to subscribe and check out those shows.
Speaker 1: That does it for me for today, Thank you everybody,
Speaker 1: Thanks to Jason Powell, and until next time. Signing up
Speaker 1: week invite you to email the show with feedback or
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Speaker 11: In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
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