WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.399 Welcome to this week's episode of The Path Went Chili, 2 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:36.280 and today it's going to be just myself and Jewels 3 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:40.079 because two days before we recorded this, Ashley finally gave 4 00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:43.000 birth to a beautiful baby boy named Teddy. So a 5 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:46.600 big congratulations to Ashley. And as you can understand, she's 6 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:48.439 probably going to be off for a little while. We 7 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:51.920 don't know yet how many episodes, but for the foreseeable future, 8 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:54.840 it's just going to be myself and Jewels, and I 9 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.640 hope actually has a wonderful time with our new baby boy. 10 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:02.359 We're so excited for her. The pictures are just gorgeous. 11 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:05.640 He's just the perfect little baby, and everything seems to 12 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:08.879 be going just so well for Ashley, so please send 13 00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:12.319 her your thoughts and your prayers, and she's so happy 14 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:13.599 to have all of you supporting her. 15 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:17.359 Definitely. We've gone through her progress of her pregnancy the 16 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:19.840 past several months. We even announced when she was pregnant, 17 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:21.640 so I'm sure a lot of our viewers were waiting 18 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:25.120 to hear this news. So we're going to follow our 19 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:28.519 usual formula when Ashley's not around, where I share the 20 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:31.079 details about a case I know well to Jules and 21 00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:34.439 she'll give off the reaction, and I'm presuming she probably 22 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:37.319 hasn't heard of this one. But it's a unique case 23 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:41.280 involving an attempted murder where the victim suffered so much 24 00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:44.359 brain damage that she could not remember the attack. And 25 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:46.840 even though her husband would be charged and convicted of 26 00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:48.879 the crime, there's a lot of doubt about whether he 27 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.200 actually did it, and of course the victim herself can't 28 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:55.319 confirm or deny if it was her husband. So have 29 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:57.959 you heard of the attempted murder of Nancy Drake? 30 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:00.920 No, I've never heard of it before. 31 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:04.480 It's a very obscure case. I once covered it on 32 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.879 a Patreon bonus episode of The Trail Went Cold several 33 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:10.800 years ago. And what's unique about it is that it's 34 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:13.759 one of the most rare UNSAWD mystery segments that you're 35 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:16.879 ever going to find. In nineteen ninety two, the show 36 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:20.439 decided to launch a spinoff series called Final Appeal from 37 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:23.479 the Files of Unsolved Mysteries, where they would cover a 38 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:25.919 lot of cases where people had been convicted of a crime, 39 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:28.280 but there was some doubt about whether or not they 40 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:31.360 actually did it, and one of their last episodes was 41 00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:33.719 going to cover the Thomas Drake case. It was going 42 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:36.879 to air in October of nineteen ninety two, but of 43 00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:40.280 course this was the presidential election, and for some reason, 44 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:43.319 the episode got preempted and could not air that night. 45 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:45.960 I think they were showing a presidential debate or something, 46 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:49.439 and the series got canceled the following week. So the 47 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.439 Thomas Drake episode never did actually air, and it pretty 48 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.960 much sat in a vault for nearly seventeen years until 49 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.560 I think two thousand and nine, when Spike TV decided 50 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.479 to do like a reboot of Unsaw Mysteries where they 51 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:06.120 would repackage like a lot of their old segments with 52 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:09.639 new graphics, new music, and because Robert Stack was now 53 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.400 deceased at this point, they had Dennis Farina film these 54 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.479 all new hosts segments, and they decided to dig out 55 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:18.800 this whole segment about the Nancy Drake attempted murder and 56 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:21.879 aert on the Spike TV reboot, even though it not 57 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.719 been seen in seventeen years. So that's how I got 58 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:27.159 familiar with it. And it's kind of a rare thing 59 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:30.800 where you can watch the Spike TV reboot version on YouTube, 60 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:34.400 but the original Robert Stack hosted episode is still an 61 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:36.759 a vault somewhere and it's never seen the light of day. 62 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.120 That's so bizarre to think that it just sat there 63 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:43.960 just collecting dust, I guess, so to speak. And then 64 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:48.319 it gets a second life when Spike TV does the reboot. 65 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:52.759 I remember that reboot and Dennis Farina right wasn't Was 66 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:55.439 he on like NYPD Blue or something like that. 67 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:57.159 Yeah, he was kind of a character actor. He was 68 00:03:57.159 --> 00:03:59.560 a former Chicago cop who did a lot of movies. 69 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.120 He was in and I think Midnight Run Get Shorty Manhunter, 70 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:06.039 good actor, seem like a nice guy, but as a host, 71 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:07.960 he was no Robert Stack unfortunately. 72 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:11.280 Wow, those are big shoes to fill exactly. 73 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:13.280 I could probably go on a rand about how terrible 74 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:15.319 that reboot was, but we'd be here all night, so 75 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.439 I'm not going to do that. But as a side note, 76 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:20.720 I don't know if Thomas Drake is innocent and was 77 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:23.240 wrongly convicted or not, but just imagine being in his 78 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.199 position where you finally think your story is going to 79 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:28.480 air on national TV and you're going to get all 80 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:31.720 this new exposure and possibly get released from prison, and 81 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:33.319 then it doesn't air and they keep it in a 82 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:36.240 vault for the next seventeen years, so that it doesn't 83 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:37.240 really help you too much. 84 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.720 That's wildly disappointing. He must have been like just completely 85 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:43.600 filled with hope to think that there is going to 86 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.600 be this national audience for the case, and if there's 87 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:49.160 somebody else who could be responsible, then maybe they're going 88 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:52.040 to get some tips, maybe they'll even get evidence that 89 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:55.120 could clear him. And then to find out that like, oh, 90 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:59.240 it was preempted for a presidential debate, now it's canceled, 91 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:01.600 so no, no one's ever going to see this. So 92 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:05.399 it gets this like second life when Spike TV picks 93 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:06.879 it up. So he must have been Florid. 94 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:08.879 I think he was, Yeah, I mean he'd been in 95 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:11.519 prison a long time at that point. But of course 96 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:13.720 if he was guilty all along, then I guess this 97 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:16.360 was a good karma for him that his hope got 98 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:20.120 to put into a vault somewhere. But another interesting piece 99 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:22.360 of trivia is that this case takes place in a 100 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:26.079 small town called winter Haven, Florida. And as you probably know, 101 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:30.079 my pet case is probably the Tommy Ziegler case, which 102 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:33.240 took place in a town called winter Garden, Florida, which 103 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:36.319 is only about forty five to fifty miles away from 104 00:05:36.439 --> 00:05:38.759 winter Haven. So you could say that I have a 105 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.560 particular fascination for cases involving a band named Thomas going 106 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:45.319 to prison for attacking his wife which take place in 107 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:47.759 towns in Florida with the word winter in the title. 108 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:49.040 That's strangely specific. 109 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:53.720 It's very specific and so paradoxical that Florida would have 110 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:55.839 multiple towns with winter at the beginning. 111 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:58.079 Yeah, I know, kind of weird and the weird climate 112 00:05:58.079 --> 00:05:59.920 that they just seem to love having the word winter 113 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:02.639 and all their town names. But you're going to see 114 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:05.399 some parallels with the Tommy Zigler case because, as you 115 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:08.399 probably remember, that was one where you had to rely 116 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:13.240 heavily on the timeline and eyewitnesses who contradicted each other, 117 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:15.279 and you're going to get that in this case as well. 118 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:16.639 So that's another similarity. 119 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:20.480 Well, that has to be the most prominent feature in 120 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:23.279 the Tommy Ziegler case. I remember when we covered that 121 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:27.319 on The Bath Went ChIL And Oh my god, Like 122 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:31.879 what a tangled mess of evidence that is. It is 123 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:36.720 just all these different perspectives, all these different kind of timelines. 124 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:39.839 It's just at the end you're left shaking your head, 125 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:44.360 going what happened, but I would agree with you in 126 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:48.079 that I think that Tommy Ziegler was not guilty, and 127 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.160 I'm really interested to see in this case if our 128 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:53.000 opinions fall on the same side. 129 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:55.519 Yes, I'm anxious to hear your opinion after I've shared 130 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:58.040 all the facts. But rest assured this one is nowhere 131 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:00.560 near as complicated as Tommy Ziegler because that one was 132 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:02.639 four parts, and I think we can do this one 133 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:06.519 in two. Okay, So the victim is forty seven year 134 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:09.240 old Nancy Drake who is living with her forty five 135 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.399 year old husband, Thomas Drake. They've been married for nearly 136 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:15.199 nine years. I know that Thomas had at least one 137 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:18.560 previous marriage and a daughter, though I think they divorced 138 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:20.639 when she was just a baby, so he didn't really 139 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:23.319 have much of a part of her life. Thomas works 140 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:26.279 as a truck driver's helper and is often on the road. 141 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:30.160 So Nancy would completely devote herself to a local church 142 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:33.560 called the First Church of the Nazarene, and she was 143 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:37.120 very devoted to it because essentially became their secretary and 144 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:40.199 would put in sixty hour work weeks which would keep 145 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:43.839 her occupied while Thomas was away. And she also sang 146 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:46.720 in the choir, and Thomas would help out from time 147 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:49.160 to time because he was in charge of the church's 148 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:53.279 sound system and would tape record the choir's performances. But 149 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.839 on July the eighth, nineteen eighty three, in winter Haven, Florida, 150 00:07:57.160 --> 00:07:59.639 Nancy was working a very busy day because she was 151 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.279 selling tickets to an upcoming concert at the church. At 152 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:06.319 at around twelve forty pm that day, a local parishioner 153 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:10.079 named Shirley Whitehead stopped by the church to purchase some tickets, 154 00:08:10.519 --> 00:08:13.079 and that was when she was horrified to discover Nancy 155 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:15.240 lying on the floor in her office in a pool 156 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:17.439 of blood. And it would turn out that she had 157 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:21.319 suffered a serious head injury because someone had bludgeoned her 158 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:24.240 with a claw toothed hammer, which split open her skull 159 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:25.920 and left some serious head wounds. 160 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:31.079 Yikes, Whenever somebody uses a hammer as a weapon, there's 161 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:34.759 just something so barbaric about that. To swing a hammer 162 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:38.919 multiple times, especially the claw end, to make contact, it's 163 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.559 just to think of the level of anger that would 164 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:46.480 have underscored that type of attack. It's just unfathomable. 165 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.000 Exactly, and the hammer did belong to the church. It 166 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:52.799 was found inside the room and had been wiped clean 167 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:55.399 of fingerprints. And that's always going to be a source 168 00:08:55.399 --> 00:08:57.919 of debate because you would think that if this was 169 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:01.039 a premeditated murder, someone would have brought their own weapon 170 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:03.399 with them. But it almost seemed like this was a 171 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:06.080 crime of opportunity where someone just had to grab the 172 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.639 first weapon that they found at the scene and hit 173 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:11.320 her with it, which could indicate that the crime was 174 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:13.840 completely unplanned and may have been a crime of passion. 175 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:18.159 And even if it was planned in that sense, it 176 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.960 would have been planned likely by somebody who would have 177 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.440 been really familiar with the church and at the church 178 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:26.440 at that time. So if you planned it days in advance, 179 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:29.159 you'd likely bring your own weapon. But if you planned 180 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:31.440 it while you were there, say you had a disagreement 181 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:33.960 with her, and you left the room and you went 182 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:37.879 somewhere else to find a weapon, Yeah, I could see 183 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.399 that that, like somebody would go looking for a weapon, 184 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:43.399 find a weapon in the church, and then come back 185 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:45.360 and do it. But I would think that it would 186 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:47.320 have to have been decided that you were going to 187 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:50.720 kill her like that day while you're there, And so 188 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:53.279 that makes it seem odd that, like, if it was 189 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.600 her husband, wouldn't you have brought a weapon? 190 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.279 Well, you can look at it both ways, because Thomas 191 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:00.480 did spend a lot of time in the church because 192 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.080 he did construction for them. Sometimes he helped out with 193 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:06.720 their sound system. So theoretically, if he planned this, he 194 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:08.600 could have known that there would have been a hammer 195 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:11.159 un scene. And we're also going to talk about another 196 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:14.120 potential suspect who was a regular parishioner at the church, 197 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:16.399 and it's also possible he could have been aware that 198 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:18.639 the hammer was there as well. 199 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:21.440 So you're going to tell me about the husband's alibi right. 200 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:25.480 Yes, later on, Okay, So when they found the hammer, 201 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:28.480 it had been white clean of fingerprints, and they also 202 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.480 found out that the safe inside the church's equipment room 203 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:35.159 was open and had been cleaned out of approximately three 204 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:39.559 eight hundred dollars worth of cash and checks, which suggested 205 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:41.679 that robbery may have been the motive for the crime. 206 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:45.000 So Nancy was taken to the hospital, had to undergo 207 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:48.360 surgery multiple times, and was left in a coma, and 208 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:51.240 doctors initially did not expect her to survive, and they 209 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:53.440 thought that if she did, she would be left in 210 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:56.720 a permanent vegetative state because of all the brain damage. 211 00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:59.480 But after being in a coma for ten days, Nancy 212 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:04.440 finally and miraculously, even though it had impaired her ability 213 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:07.559 to speak, she was able to start talking again and 214 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.840 functioning as a normal human being. So she did pull through. 215 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:14.639 The doctors pretty much thought it was a miracle considering 216 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.279 the severity of her injuries. But of course the side 217 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:20.039 effect is that when she was finally questioned about the crime, 218 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:22.600 she claimed to have no memory of what happened and 219 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:25.600 no idea who attacked her because the brain damage had 220 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:26.519 ruined her memories. 221 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:30.879 Are you familiar with the Chris Porco case, Yes, I am. Yes, 222 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:34.360 it's giving me those vibes like with his mom not 223 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:38.559 remembering anything, or if she did remember anything, she didn't 224 00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:40.759 disclose it. And she was very much on the side 225 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.519 of her son, even though he was convicted. 226 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:47.440 Exactly and I remember she still supported him even though 227 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:50.720 the evidence against him was overwhelming. And you might recall 228 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:52.799 that many years ago we did a series on the 229 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:55.960 murder of Dreen Picard, who was a bludgeoned to death 230 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.919 in a laundry room with a lead pipe, and another 231 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:01.960 victim named Susan affair. Tae was also bludgeoned in the 232 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:04.039 same way and remain in a coma, but she did 233 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:07.039 survive and wake up. But same thing happened. She said 234 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:09.480 she had no memory of the attack and to went 235 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:11.960 after her, and that would cause a lot of concern 236 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.799 because a suspect would later go to prison for the attack, 237 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:17.080 but a lot of people thought he was innocent, and 238 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:21.159 his conviction was eventually overturned, and the surviving victim still 239 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:23.679 cannot confirm or deny if this was the right man. 240 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:27.720 It's such a catch twenty two because the trauma of 241 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:30.759 it all to experience something like that, part of it 242 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:35.200 would be a gift not to remember, but the other part, 243 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.399 it's like you've got this blank slate where this memory 244 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:41.320 should be, and you want to be able to understand 245 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:44.000 who did this to you and the why, And until 246 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.639 you put that piece of the puzzle there, then you're 247 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:48.919 not going to be able to understand it all. And 248 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:51.799 so I can understand that it's one of those things 249 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.720 that just goes in a loop in their minds. Any 250 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.240 of the victims you just mentioned, right, because how do 251 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.240 you deal with not being able to who did this 252 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.360 to you? And just knowing that there's somebody out there 253 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:06.879 that did this, and like, what if they come back 254 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:07.960 and finish the job. 255 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:11.279 Yeah, And that's what happened when Susan Laferte was interviewed 256 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:14.200 on Unsolved Mysteries, because this was six years after she 257 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:16.399 was attacked, and she said, I'm sorry, I still have 258 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:18.440 no memory of the crime. I still don't know who 259 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:21.039 did this. And it's the same thing with Nancy Drake. 260 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:24.799 She was interviewed on Unsaved Mysteries nearly ten years after 261 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:26.919 the crime, and she claimed that she still could not 262 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:30.799 remember who actually attacked her. So you're asking about the 263 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:34.360 alibi for her husband, Thomas, so he could actually be 264 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:38.720 placed in the church. Shortly before Nancy was found, Nancy 265 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:40.879 was planning to go home for lunch that day, but 266 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:43.919 she phoned Thomas at home saying that she was incredibly 267 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.840 busy with the ticket sales, so she asked Thomas to 268 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:49.120 bring her lunch to the church, and there was an 269 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:52.080 associate pastor there at the time who was able to 270 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.799 confirm that they overheard this phone call and that Nancy 271 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.519 did ask Thomas to come there. Thomas claimed that he 272 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.799 arrived at around twelve fifteen pm. And left at around 273 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:04.759 twelve thirty, and he claimed that when he arrived at 274 00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:07.360 the church, he saw a white haired man sitting in 275 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:11.000 a green station wagon which was parked outside, and his 276 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.840 story was backed up by another parishioner named Althea Toth, 277 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:18.440 who stopped by the church right before Thomas arrived and 278 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.720 claimed that she also saw this white haired man. So 279 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:25.120 they formed a composite sketch for this man and circulated 280 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.240 throughout the newspapers and asked him to come forward, but 281 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:31.799 he never did and no one was able to identify him. 282 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.480 And you could say that if Thomas was guilty, then 283 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:38.039 he could have fabricated this white haired man as an 284 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:41.519 alternate suspect. But we do have another independent eyewitness who 285 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:44.320 confirmed that she saw him, so regardless of whether or 286 00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:47.519 not he did it, this white haired man probably did exist. 287 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:50.559 Yeah, and you've got to wonder why he's loitering in 288 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:53.240 the parking lot. You got Althea saying that she saw 289 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:55.559 him as well, So I don't think that he's fabricated. 290 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:58.360 And I feel like if Thomas was coming to bring 291 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.039 her lunch, maybe there would be evidence of lunch. But 292 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:04.080 I also think that if you were planning on killing 293 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.799 your wife at the church when she called you, you 294 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:09.120 would think that, like maybe somebody else around would have 295 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:12.000 overheard your conversation, so it would seem like not a 296 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:16.039 very well planned attack since he didn't bring a weapon, 297 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:19.320 and like, you don't know who overheard that conversation. You 298 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:21.559 just called your wife said you were coming, and that 299 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.000 people are actually going to see you there. So it 300 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:28.200 just doesn't feel very covert. Either. He's not a very 301 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.559 smart person the way that he planned to do this 302 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:32.639 or he didn't do it. 303 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.080 Yeah, And that's what's very weird to me is that 304 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.000 if Thomas was guilty, the only thing that would make 305 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:42.600 sense is this if this was completely unplanned, because, like 306 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.360 I just said, Nancy's original plan was to go home 307 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.799 for lunch. Like she did not decide until the last minute, Thomas, 308 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.080 can you bring my lunch there? So, as far as 309 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:53.360 we know, Thomas had no plans to visit at the 310 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.159 church that night. And it's not the safest place to 311 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.720 kill your wife or attempt to kill your wife, because 312 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:01.480 anyone else could walk in there at any moment. So 313 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:03.240 it makes me think that if he did do this, 314 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.279 it would have been completely unplanned and they just suddenly 315 00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:10.120 decided to kill her in a fit of rage. But 316 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.840 the problem with that scenario is that there was a 317 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:16.240 morning disc jockey from a local radio station who called 318 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:21.320 Nancy up to discuss the upcoming concert that was taking 319 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.600 place there, and they had a nine minute interview, and 320 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:28.559 this disc jockey, Pat Morgan, actually recorded it and confirmed 321 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:32.960 that he spoke to Nancy and Thomas sometime between like 322 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:35.960 twelve fifteen and twelve thirty, and they played this recording 323 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.679 to the police, and according to Morgan, he didn't think 324 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:41.480 there was anything unusual about the conversation at all to 325 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:44.879 suggest that Nancy and Thomas have been fighting or anything. 326 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:46.840 So did they just do this interview and then all 327 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:49.519 of a sudden, Thomas decided to grab a hammer and 328 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:51.679 then attack his wife immediately thereafter. 329 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.960 And like, you can't make me believe that this guy 330 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.480 who's just casually bringing his wife lunch, having this chill 331 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:03.840 interview is then going to take a hammer and kill 332 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:06.599 his wife and then decide to clean out the safe. 333 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:08.920 I feel like if he decided, if he all he 334 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.279 saw was read and he decided to kill his wife, 335 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.319 would he really stick around to clean out a safe. 336 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:16.640 That's the thing, like they're going to talk about how 337 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.480 Thomas was suffering from financial problems at the time, so 338 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:22.119 they tried to push forward the idea that maybe robbery 339 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.680 was the motive for the crime, or maybe he took 340 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.200 it to make it look like she was robbed by 341 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.680 someone else, like it was just an act of misdirection. 342 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:32.200 But that's the thing about this case is we have 343 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:34.880 a very limited a window of time for the crime 344 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.440 to have happened, because Thomas claimed that he left at 345 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:42.240 twelve thirty and the parishioner who discovered Nancy's body claimed 346 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:45.480 that she stopped by at twelve forty. So regardless of 347 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.079 whether Thomas or an outside party did this, it would 348 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:50.359 have had to have taken place within a window of 349 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.400 only ten minutes. 350 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:56.160 Yeah. I just have a hard time believing that if 351 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.839 somebody had a financial motive to do something that it's 352 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:02.599 like killing my wife for a few thousand dollars, that 353 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:05.640 it's probably in the church safe is the best way 354 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:09.319 to go about getting money to solve whatever financial problems 355 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.200 that you have. It feels like a bit of a stretch. 356 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.319 It does. Yeah, and I still don't know if Thomas 357 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.480 knew the combination to the safe. I mean, Nancy, for 358 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:20.920 all we know, was maybe the only one who would 359 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:22.960 have been able to open it. So if you wanted 360 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:24.640 to steal it, how could he be so certain that 361 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:27.039 Nancy would even open the safe in his presence? 362 00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:30.480 Yeah, I don't think he could have known. It just 363 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:35.319 feels like an active desperation by somebody who's very desperate. 364 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:39.039 You're coming in, you're grabbing a weapon of opportunity, and 365 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:43.039 you're brutally attacking this woman, and it seems like the 366 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.039 primary objective is robbery. 367 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:48.759 So they did eventually find someone who seemed like a 368 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:52.039 potential suspect. He was a regular parishioner at the church, 369 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:56.200 named Raymond Starr, because they found his fingerprints on the 370 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:01.119 glass window on Nancy's office doors. Ordinarily, that might not 371 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.039 seem unusual because he was a regular at the church, 372 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:06.279 so he could have very well left his print at 373 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:09.440 a previous time. But the issue here is that the 374 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:13.839 window had apparently been washed that morning, so Edny Prince 375 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:15.960 that would have been on there on a previous occasion 376 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:19.720 should have been gone. Raymond Starr was forty years old. 377 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.720 He still lived with his mother and sister, and when 378 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.240 he was questioned, investigators noticed that he appeared to have 379 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.319 scratches on his face, hands, and the back of his neck, 380 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:32.240 and he did really come up with a logical solution 381 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:34.920 for them. He just said that they were the result 382 00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:39.319 of razor blades from shaving and because he had scratched himself. 383 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:42.640 Even though he was told his fingerprint was there, Star 384 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:45.119 denied being in the church on the day of the crime. 385 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.440 He provided an alibi, claiming that he left his home 386 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.720 at twelve ten to run some errands with his mother 387 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.839 and sister, and then they returned at twelve fifty, which 388 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.640 would have been about ten minutes or so after Nancy 389 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:00.440 was attacked. But when Star's sister was questioned, she that 390 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.000 she had run errands with him at all, claiming that 391 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.960 she last saw her brother at home sometime between noon 392 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:09.079 and twelve ten, but did not see him again until 393 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.559 after one o'clock, which, if accurate, completely discredited his alibi. 394 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.920 So right in the outset, even though there isn't any 395 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.920 direct evidence that Star did this, you do have a 396 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:23.480 fingerprint belonging to him on the window of the office door, 397 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:25.319 and he has a shaky alibi. 398 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.920 I mean, I think the first rule of making up 399 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:32.359 an alibi is you're going to have to check with 400 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.359 the people who are supposed to alibi you out and 401 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.240