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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the quark Side. Quantum Physics Podcast, an exploration

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<v Speaker 1>of the fundamental structure of reality, where quantum laws govern matter, energy,

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<v Speaker 1>and information. Here, uncertainty is a feature, not a flaw,

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<v Speaker 1>and understanding begins at the smallest scales.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, before we get started, I want you to

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<v Speaker 2>try something for me.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, okay, a little audience participation. I'm in right now

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<v Speaker 3>wherever you are, just I don't know, reach out and

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<v Speaker 3>touch the table in front of you, or grab the

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<v Speaker 3>arm of your chair.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I am tapping the desk right now. It's solid,

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<v Speaker 2>cool to the touch, definitely real.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly, it feels solid. Your hand stops, You don't fall

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<v Speaker 3>through your floor, your coffee cup doesn't just phase through

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<v Speaker 3>the table like some kind of ghost.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. We take this for granted.

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<v Speaker 3>We take it for granted every single second of our lives.

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<v Speaker 3>It is the basic fundamental fact of our existence. Things

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<v Speaker 3>are solid. But here's the question that, and I'm not kidding,

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<v Speaker 3>keeps me up at night.

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<v Speaker 2>Why why is the world solid? It sounds like a

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<v Speaker 2>question of five year old would ask, doesn't it?

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<v Speaker 3>But why it does? And it's a great question. But

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<v Speaker 3>the more you know about physics, the right the weirder

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<v Speaker 3>that question gets because we know if we zoom in,

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<v Speaker 3>and I mean way way in, that desk isn't a

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<v Speaker 3>solid block of anything, not at all.

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<v Speaker 2>It's mostly empty space, a cloud.

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<v Speaker 3>Of atoms, and those atoms are what ninety nine point

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<v Speaker 3>nine percent emptiness? Oh more than that, it's more like

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<v Speaker 3>ninety nine point nine nine ninety nine percent. If you

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<v Speaker 3>imagine an atom is the size of a huge football stadium. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>the nucleus would be like a marble sitting on the

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<v Speaker 3>fifty yard line, and the electrons would be these tiny

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<v Speaker 3>little gnats buzzing around in the absolute nosebleed seats and

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<v Speaker 3>everything in between void nothing right. So logically, if matter

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<v Speaker 3>is almost entirely empty space, why doesn't the entire universe

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<v Speaker 3>just I don't know, collapse into a single microscopic point.

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<v Speaker 3>Why doesn't my hand just pass straight through this table

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<v Speaker 3>like smoke through a screen door.

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<v Speaker 2>Why can we touch things?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes? Why?

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<v Speaker 2>It is a profound question, And the answer isn't just

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<v Speaker 2>because matter is hard. The answer is actually a rule,

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<v Speaker 2>a very specific, very strict rule written into the operating

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<v Speaker 2>code of the universe.

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<v Speaker 3>The rule that if it were broken, even just a tiny, tiny,

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<v Speaker 3>bit would mean that chemistry, life, stars, basically everything we

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<v Speaker 3>know and are would instantly cease to exist.

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<v Speaker 2>You're talking about the poly exclusion principle, the absolute hero

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<v Speaker 2>of today's deep dive. We are talking about the very

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<v Speaker 2>bedrock of reality. But here's where it gets really interesting

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<v Speaker 2>and honestly a little bit nerve wracking.

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<v Speaker 3>Go on.

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<v Speaker 2>We assume this rule is perfect, we assume it's absolute.

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<v Speaker 2>But what if it isn't? What if there's a loophole?

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<v Speaker 3>Ah? That is the question, and that is the question

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<v Speaker 3>that sent a team of physicists deep deep underground in

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<v Speaker 3>Italy to try and catch the universe cheating at its

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<v Speaker 3>own game.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's what we're digging into today. We are looking

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<v Speaker 2>at a report from fizzdot org dated February five, twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty six, which covers this massive, high stakes study. It

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<v Speaker 2>was published in Scientific Reports a few months prior, back

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<v Speaker 2>in November twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 3>It's all about the VIP two experiment.

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<v Speaker 2>The IP two. This is the absolute cutting edge of

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<v Speaker 2>foundational physics, it really is. And their mission was simple,

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<v Speaker 2>but I mean incredibly audacious. Break the poly exclusion principle,

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<v Speaker 2>find a crack in the foundation, and what.

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<v Speaker 3>They found, or maybe what they didn't find tells us

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<v Speaker 3>something just incredible about the nature of our reality.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a story about copper, new electrons and a number

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<v Speaker 2>so vanishingly small it's hard to even visualize.

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<v Speaker 3>So we're going underground.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's unpack this. We're going to Grand Sasa, We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to the quantum realm, and we're going to find

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<v Speaker 2>out why you're not currently sinking through your chair.

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<v Speaker 3>Sounds like a plan.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm ready, okay, So let's start with the cornerstone, the

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<v Speaker 2>rule itself, the poly exclusion principle. Sounds very bureaucratic, doesn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>The exclusion principle like a velvet rope at some exclusive club.

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<v Speaker 3>That is actually a surprisingly accurate analogy. The principle was

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<v Speaker 3>formulated by Wolfgang Polly, an Austrian Swiss physicist, way back

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<v Speaker 3>in nineteen twenty five.

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<v Speaker 2>Set the scene for us. Nineteen twenty five, what's happening

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<v Speaker 2>in physics?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, it was the golden age of quantum mechanics. You

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<v Speaker 3>have to understand at this time physicists were in a

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<v Speaker 3>state of equal parts panic and excitement.

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<v Speaker 2>A good stit to be in for discovery.

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<v Speaker 3>The best, the old comfortable rules of Isaac Newton, where

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<v Speaker 3>things moved in predictable lines like clockwork. They were just

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<v Speaker 3>falling apart. When they looked at Adams, electrons weren't behaving

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<v Speaker 3>like little planets orbiting a sun right the old Boar

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<v Speaker 3>model exactly. They were jumping around, disappearing and reappearing. It

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<v Speaker 3>was just chaos. Nobody could make sense of the data

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<v Speaker 3>they were seeing from spectroscopy.

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<v Speaker 2>And Polly comes along and acts as the sheriff, lays

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<v Speaker 2>down the law.

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<v Speaker 3>He essentially does. Polly was known for being incredibly critical,

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<v Speaker 3>just famously sharp. People called him the conscience of physics.

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<v Speaker 2>The conscience of physics. I love that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. If he thought a theory was sloppy or poorly

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<v Speaker 3>thought out, he wouldn't just say it was wrong. He

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<v Speaker 3>had this famous brutal put down. He'd say, that isn't

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<v Speaker 3>even wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>Ouch, that's colder than saying it's wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>It meant it was so incoherent it wasn't even worth discussing.

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<v Speaker 3>He demanded precision, and in nineteen twenty five he proposed

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<v Speaker 3>this principle to finally explain the structure of atoms. Why

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<v Speaker 3>electrons arraigned themselves the way they did.

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<v Speaker 2>So what does the law actually say in simple terms?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, understand it. We first have to understand that in

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<v Speaker 3>the quantum world, particles are divided into two main tribes.

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<v Speaker 3>You're the bosons and you have the fermions.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, tribes, I like that. What's the difference.

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<v Speaker 3>Bosons are the party.

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<v Speaker 2>Animals, the social butterflies.

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<v Speaker 3>Totally. These are particles like photons, you know, light particles.

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<v Speaker 3>The defining characteristic of a boson is that it loves company.

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<v Speaker 3>You can pile as many bosons as you want into

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<v Speaker 3>the exact same quantum state.

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<v Speaker 2>Give visual for that.

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<v Speaker 3>Think of a laser beam. In a laser you have

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<v Speaker 3>trillions upon trillions of photons, all marching in perfect lockstep.

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<v Speaker 3>They overlap, They occupy the same space at the same time,

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<v Speaker 3>with the same energy, same direction. They are perfectly happy

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<v Speaker 3>to stack right on top of each other.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't mind crowds.

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<v Speaker 3>They love crowds. They are, in a word.

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<v Speaker 2>Social, right, They stack like, I don't know, like thoughts.

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<v Speaker 2>You can have a million thoughts in your head at once.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a poetic way to put it. Sure, they are

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<v Speaker 3>permeable to each other. But then then you have the

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<v Speaker 3>fermions and electrons, which are the stars of our story

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<v Speaker 3>today are fermions.

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<v Speaker 2>And let me guess fermions are not party animals.

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<v Speaker 3>They are antisocial, deeply, deeply antisocial. The poly exclusion principle

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<v Speaker 3>basically says no two identical fermions can occupy the same

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<v Speaker 3>quantum state at the same time period.

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<v Speaker 2>This seat is taken precisely.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the ultimate one per customer rule. If an electron

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<v Speaker 3>is in a certain energy state, you can think of

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<v Speaker 3>it like a designated parking spot in a garag. No

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<v Speaker 3>other electron in that atom can park there. It is

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<v Speaker 3>strictly forbidden.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, when you say parking spot or quantum state, we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about more than just location, right, It's a bit

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<v Speaker 2>more specific than.

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<v Speaker 3>That, right, Yeah, good point. In quantum mechanics, a state

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<v Speaker 3>is defined by a set of numbers. We call them

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<v Speaker 3>quantum numbers. It's like a unique address. You have the

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<v Speaker 3>energy level, the angular momentum, the magnetic moment and critically

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<v Speaker 3>the spin spin up or spin down exactly. So Pauli's

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<v Speaker 3>rule says you cannot have two electrons in the same

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<v Speaker 3>atom with the exact same list of numbers. You could

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<v Speaker 3>have two in the same energy level, but one must

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<v Speaker 3>be spin up and the other must be spinned down.

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<v Speaker 3>Once both those spots are taken, that level is full.

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<v Speaker 2>So if I'm an electron and I want to join

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<v Speaker 2>an atom, I'm naturally drawn to the lowest energy spot,

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<v Speaker 2>the best parking spot, right near the interest.

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<v Speaker 3>That's where you want to go, less energy expended.

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<v Speaker 2>But if there's already an electron there with spin up

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<v Speaker 2>and another with spin down, that level is completely full.

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<v Speaker 3>You cannot enter. You are physically barred from that state.

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<v Speaker 3>To or says no, you have to go to the

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<v Speaker 3>next level up, and if that's full, the next one

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<v Speaker 3>and the next one after that.

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<v Speaker 2>This sounds like a real hassle for the electrons.

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<v Speaker 3>It is. They want to be in the lowest energy

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<v Speaker 3>state possible. They want to relax down in the basement,

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<v Speaker 3>but the exclusion principle forces them to stack up one

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<v Speaker 3>by one into these layers or shells around the.

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<v Speaker 2>Nucleus, and the stacking, this fourcelayering. This is the key

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<v Speaker 2>to everything, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 3>It is the key to the entire universes. We know

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<v Speaker 3>it because if they could all just crash down into

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<v Speaker 3>that bottom level, if they could all pile up.

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<v Speaker 2>Like bosons, what had happened, what would an atom look like.

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<v Speaker 3>You wouldn't have chemistry at all. Think about the periodic table.

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<v Speaker 3>The entire reason carbon behaves differently than oxygen, which behaves

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<v Speaker 3>differently from iron, is entirely because they have different numbers

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<v Speaker 3>of electrons arranged in different shells. Because of this exclusion rule.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course, carbon has four electrons in its outer shell,

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<v Speaker 3>so it wants to form four bonds. It's the basis

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<v Speaker 3>of all organic life. Oxygen has six in its outer shell,

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<v Speaker 3>so it behaves in a completely different way. If they

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<v Speaker 3>all just piled into the basement, every atom would just

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<v Speaker 3>be a slightly heavier, slightly more negative version of hydrogen.

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<v Speaker 3>They'd all behave roughly the same.

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<v Speaker 2>So there'd be no complex bonds, no molecules.

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<v Speaker 3>No DNA, no proteins, no water, no life. You and

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<v Speaker 3>I would not be having this conversation. Chemistry is basically

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<v Speaker 3>just the consequence of electrons dealing with the lack of

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<v Speaker 3>parking spaces.

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<v Speaker 2>That is a fantastic way to think about it. Chemistry

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<v Speaker 2>is the result of overcrowding.

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<v Speaker 3>It is, and it goes beyond just chemistry. This rule

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<v Speaker 3>is what creates the rigidity of matter. Thus solidity.

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<v Speaker 2>Tay back to the table I'm touching right.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, exactly when you press your hand against the table.

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<v Speaker 3>What's actually happening. The electrons in the atoms of your

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<v Speaker 3>hand are pushing against the electrons in the atoms of

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<v Speaker 3>the table. They literally cannot occupy the same space.

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<v Speaker 2>So the feeling of solid.

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<v Speaker 3>That resistance, you feel, that solidness isn't the physical matter

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<v Speaker 3>of your hand touching the physical matter of the table.

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<v Speaker 3>That's not what's ha happening.

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<v Speaker 2>What is it?

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<v Speaker 3>Then? It is the poly exclusion principle in action. It

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<v Speaker 3>is a quantum force. We call it a degeneracy pressure

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<v Speaker 3>that is screaming back off. This space is taken at

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<v Speaker 3>an atomic level.

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<v Speaker 2>That is wild. I'm not feeling wood, I'm feeling a

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<v Speaker 2>quantum law.

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<v Speaker 3>You are feeling the fundamental architecture of the universe refusing

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<v Speaker 3>to collapse on itself.

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<v Speaker 2>And this scales up, doesn't it. I mean, this isn't

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<v Speaker 2>just for desks. The source material mentions stars.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, it scales up in a huge way. Look at

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<v Speaker 3>white dwarf stars. These are the dead, collapsed cores of

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<v Speaker 3>stars like our sun. They are incredibly dense. We're talking

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<v Speaker 3>about the mass of the Sun packed into a sphere

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<v Speaker 3>the size of the Earth.

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<v Speaker 2>And gravity is trying to crush them even further into

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<v Speaker 2>a single point.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, gravity is relentless, it's pulling everything inward. But the

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<v Speaker 3>star stops collapsing at that certain size. Why because the

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<v Speaker 3>electrons inside are packed so incredibly tight that the exclusion

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<v Speaker 3>principle kicks in. On a macroscopic scale, the parking garage

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<v Speaker 3>is full. The parking garage is full on a stack.

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<v Speaker 3>The electrons are screaming. We cannot get any closer. That

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<v Speaker 3>outward pressure, that absolute refusal to occupy the same state

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<v Speaker 3>holds the entire star up against the crushing weight of

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<v Speaker 3>its own gravity.

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<v Speaker 2>So from the table in my kitchen to a dead

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<v Speaker 2>star in deep space, this one simple rule is the

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<v Speaker 2>structural engineer keeping everything from imploding.

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<v Speaker 3>It is the load bearing wall of the universe. Without it,

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<v Speaker 3>the universe would be a soup, a very small, very hot,

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<v Speaker 3>very dense soup.

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<v Speaker 2>Which makes the source material for this deep dive so

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<v Speaker 2>well terrifying. Because we have this quote from Catalina Curciano,

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<v Speaker 2>a physicist from the Italian National Institute for Nuclear Physics

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<v Speaker 2>the i NFN. She's the spokesperson for this VIP two experiment.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I remember this quote. It's a very stark warning.

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<v Speaker 2>She said. Quote. If the poly exclusion principle were violated,

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<v Speaker 2>even at an extremely small level, the consequences would cascade

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<v Speaker 2>from atomic physics all the way to astrophysics.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a domino effect. If the rule is even slightly squishy,

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<v Speaker 3>if an electron can just occasionally sneak into an occupied seat,

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<v Speaker 3>then all of matter as we know it is fundamentally unstable.

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<v Speaker 2>The domino's fault, all.

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<v Speaker 3>Of them all at once.

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<v Speaker 2>So naturally, knowing that the fate of the entire universe

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<v Speaker 2>rests on this one single rule, scientists decided, Hey, let's

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<v Speaker 2>try to break it.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that is the scientific way, isn't it. You don't trust,

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<v Speaker 3>you verify, And the most rigorous way to verify something

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<v Speaker 3>is to try your absolute hardest to destroy it.

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<v Speaker 2>But seriously, let's play Devil's advocate for a minute. If

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<v Speaker 2>this rule is so perfect, if it's the only thing

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<v Speaker 2>keeping us solid and stable, why are we spending millions

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<v Speaker 2>of dollars in years of time trying to prove it wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>Why poke the bear?

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<v Speaker 3>It's the itch, It's the fundamental scientific itch. We have

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<v Speaker 3>this incredibly successful theory called the Standard Model of particle physics, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Our best description of well, almost everything exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>It predicts the behavior of particles with just insane accuracy.

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<v Speaker 3>It is the most successful scientific theory in human history,

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<v Speaker 3>and built into its very foundation is the assumption that

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<v Speaker 3>the poly exclusion principle is exact perfect, zero exception.

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<v Speaker 2>There's always a butt.

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<v Speaker 3>But we know the Standard Model isn't the final word.

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<v Speaker 3>It's beautiful, but it's flawed. It has holes. It doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>explain everything we see in the universe.

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<v Speaker 2>Like what what are the big holes?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it has nothing to say about dark matter, which

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<v Speaker 3>we think makes up about twenty five percent of the universe.

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<v Speaker 3>It has no explanation for dark energy, which is causing

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<v Speaker 3>the expansion of the universe to accelerate. And the biggest

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<v Speaker 3>one of all, it doesn't include gravity.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like having a perfect map of the world that's

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<v Speaker 2>missing an entire continent exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>We know there is new physics out there, but deeper theory,

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<v Speaker 3>we just don't know where to find it. So physicists

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<v Speaker 3>are like detectives looking for cracks in the Standard Model.

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<v Speaker 3>They're looking for any place where the rules bend, even

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<v Speaker 3>just a little bit, and.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what they mean by exotic physics, right, And what was.

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<v Speaker 3>The most fundamental place is to look for a crack

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<v Speaker 3>is right at the foundation? What if the exclusion principle

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<v Speaker 3>isn't a hard absolute no, but more of a mostly no,

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<v Speaker 3>like a no.

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<v Speaker 2>But maybe if you're really really quick and nobody is looking,

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<v Speaker 2>sort of rule exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And there are actual theoretical models. These are speculative, but

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<v Speaker 3>they're out there, things called Quan models that play with

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<v Speaker 3>this idea quon as in q yes. In standard physics,

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<v Speaker 3>a particle is either a fermion, which is antisocial, or

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<v Speaker 3>a boson, which is social. It's binary, it's one or

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<v Speaker 3>the other, flagger white. But Quan models speculate what if

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<v Speaker 3>there's a spectrum. What if a particle could be, say,

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<v Speaker 3>ninety nine point nine percent fermion, but have a tiny

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<v Speaker 3>tiny bit of boson character mixed in.

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<v Speaker 2>It could occasionally cheat the system.

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<v Speaker 3>It could occasionally cheat. It creates a loophole, a slight violation,

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<v Speaker 3>and if that happens, even incredibly rarely, it would be

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<v Speaker 3>a huge clue to a deeper level of reality. Atels

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<v Speaker 3>that are neat categories of fermion and boson are just

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<v Speaker 3>approximations of something much more complex and interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>And the source. It also mentions another possibility this could

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<v Speaker 2>point to, which is the structure of the electron itself.

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<v Speaker 2>This really blew my mind. We usually think of electrons

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<v Speaker 2>as just dots, little points of charge.

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<v Speaker 3>Correct in the standard model, electrons are fundamental particles. They

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<v Speaker 3>have zero size. They are just a point of charge

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<v Speaker 3>in mass. You can't cut an electron in half.

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<v Speaker 2>But if the exclusion principle can be violated, that might

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<v Speaker 2>change our view of that.

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<v Speaker 3>It could imply that electrons aren't fundamental at all, that

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<v Speaker 3>they might have an internal structure, that they are made

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<v Speaker 3>of even smaller things.

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<v Speaker 2>Like little gears inside or components, or that they are squishy.

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<v Speaker 3>Think about it this way. If two perfectly rigid billiard

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<v Speaker 3>balls hit each other, they bounce off they cannot occupy

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<v Speaker 3>the same space. But if two tennis balls hit each

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<v Speaker 3>other hard enough they can press they deform for a moment.

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<v Speaker 2>So if electrons have internal parts, maybe under extreme pressure

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<v Speaker 2>they can. They can deform slightly and squeeze into a

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<v Speaker 2>state where a perfectly rigid point particle couldn't fit.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the idea exactly. So if we find a violation

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<v Speaker 3>of poly. It's a very strong hint that the electron

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<v Speaker 3>isn't a simple dot, but a complex object with moving parts.

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<v Speaker 2>And then there's a big one, the one everyone's chasing,

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<v Speaker 2>quantum gravity.

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<v Speaker 3>The holy grail of modern physics.

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<v Speaker 2>We are desperately, desperately trying to merge Einstein's general relativity,

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<v Speaker 2>which governs gravity and big stuff like planets and galaxies,

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<v Speaker 2>with quantum mechanics, which governs the small stuff like atoms

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<v Speaker 2>and particles.

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<v Speaker 3>And they hate each other. They just they do not

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<v Speaker 3>get along mathematically. They speak different languages.

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<v Speaker 2>But some of the theories that are trying to build

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<v Speaker 2>that bridge, like certain versions of string theory or quantum

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<v Speaker 2>loot gravity, they actually predict that the poly exclusion principle

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<v Speaker 2>might have tiny, tiny cracks, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, some of them do. Some theories suggest that space

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<v Speaker 3>time itself might not be a smooth, continuous fabric. It

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<v Speaker 3>might be fuzzy or discrete, like it's made of pixels

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<v Speaker 3>at the smallest possible scales, the Plank scale, right, And

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<v Speaker 3>if space is bumpy at that level, it might mess

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<v Speaker 3>with the strict rules of quantum mechanics. It might cause

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<v Speaker 3>an electron to slip or tunnel into a forbidden state

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<v Speaker 3>every once in a while.

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<v Speaker 2>So finding a violation would be like finding a loose thread.

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<v Speaker 2>You pull on it and the whole standard model unravels,

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<v Speaker 2>But underneath you might find the real fabric of the universe.

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<v Speaker 3>That is the hope. That is why they search. Finding

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<v Speaker 3>a violation wouldn't be a disaster for science. It would

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<v Speaker 3>be the greatest discovery of the century. It would be

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<v Speaker 3>the signpost pointing the way to the theory of everything.

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<v Speaker 2>So the stakes are just incredibly high. Either we confirm

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<v Speaker 2>the stability of reality as we know it, or we

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<v Speaker 2>find a portal to a whole new level of physics,

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<v Speaker 2>which brings us to the experiment. How do you actually

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<v Speaker 2>test this? How do you catch an electron cheating?

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00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:49.359
<v Speaker 3>This is the VIP two experiment. VIP stands for violation

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<v Speaker 3>of the poly principle.

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<v Speaker 2>And I love the sitting. This isn't happening in a

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<v Speaker 2>shiny lab in a university basement. This is deep.

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<v Speaker 3>Underground Grandsasso National Laboratory. Yeah, it's really an amazing place,

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<v Speaker 3>a series of massive experimental halls that have been hollowed

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<v Speaker 3>out from inside a mountain in Italy. You have to

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<v Speaker 3>drive through a long highway tunnel to even get to

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<v Speaker 3>the entrance.

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<v Speaker 2>Why hide under a mountain. Are they hiding from the electrons?

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<v Speaker 3>No, they're hiding from noise. We are right now constantly

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<v Speaker 3>being bombarded by cosmic rays. These are high energy particles,

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<v Speaker 3>mostly protons, flying in from space from supernovas and distant galaxies.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're hitting our atmosphere.

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<v Speaker 3>They hit the atmosphere and create a shower of secondary particles,

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00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.839
<v Speaker 3>and some of those particles, especially the ones called muons,

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00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.759
<v Speaker 3>make it all the way down to the surface. Billions

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00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:37.920
<v Speaker 3>of them are passing through your body as we speak. Well,

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00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.079
<v Speaker 3>that's comforting. It's totally harmless to us. But if you're

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00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:43.960
<v Speaker 3>running an experiment that is as sensitive as VIP two,

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00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:48.279
<v Speaker 3>a single cosmic ray hitting your detector would be a

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<v Speaker 3>disaster because it would create a flash of energy signal

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<v Speaker 3>that could look just like the violation you're hunting for.

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00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:55.880
<v Speaker 3>It would be like trying to listen for a pin

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<v Speaker 3>drop in the middle of a thunderstorm.

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00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.119
<v Speaker 2>So the mountain acts as a giant umbrella.

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00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.400
<v Speaker 3>Giant rock umbrella. It's over a kilometer of solid rock

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<v Speaker 3>overhead that blocks out almost all of the cosmic noise.

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<v Speaker 3>Creating one of the quietest places on Earth in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of radiation.

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00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:15.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay, got it, So silence, darkness, a mile of rock overhead,

402
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.079
<v Speaker 2>and in the middle of this cavern they have the

403
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:21.480
<v Speaker 2>VIP two apparatus. What are they actually pointing their detectors at.

404
00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:22.279
<v Speaker 3>A chunk of copper.

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00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:24.359
<v Speaker 2>Copper are just just.

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00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:27.839
<v Speaker 3>Like copper wire, a strip of high purity copper conductor.

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00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.640
<v Speaker 3>Copper is a great choice because it's atomic structure is very,

408
00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:34.799
<v Speaker 3>very well understood. We know exactly where the electrons should be,

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00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:36.519
<v Speaker 3>we know their parking spots.

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00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:39.440
<v Speaker 2>And they are looking for something called forbidden transitions. We

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00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:41.920
<v Speaker 2>touched on this, but walk me through exactly what that

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<v Speaker 2>looks like in the experiment.

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00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:47.079
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so imagine the copper atom is like that parking

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00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:50.759
<v Speaker 3>garage we talked about. All the lower levels, what physicists

415
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.640
<v Speaker 3>call the k shell the lshll are full. They are

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<v Speaker 3>packed tight with electrons.

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00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:57.359
<v Speaker 2>The VIP section is totally booked.

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00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:00.559
<v Speaker 3>Yes, the experimenters are watching to see if an electron

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00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.640
<v Speaker 3>suddenly jumps from a high outer level down to one

420
00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:05.400
<v Speaker 3>of those lower levels that is already.

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00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:08.319
<v Speaker 2>Occupied, the move that Paully says is completely illegal.

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00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.759
<v Speaker 3>The forbidden move. Now in physics, energy is never lost,

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00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.720
<v Speaker 3>it just changes form. When an electron drops from a

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00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.960
<v Speaker 3>high energy state to a low energy state, it has

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00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.880
<v Speaker 3>to get rid of that excess energy. Usually this energy

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00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.759
<v Speaker 3>comes out as a photon, a particle of light. Okay,

427
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.599
<v Speaker 3>so a flash of light, a flash of light. And

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00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.279
<v Speaker 3>if an electron were to crash the party and drop

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00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:32.559
<v Speaker 3>into an already occupied slot, the energy difference between those

430
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:35.759
<v Speaker 3>two levels is very specific. It's a known quantity. It

431
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:37.519
<v Speaker 3>would release that energy as an X.

432
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Ray, an X ray, not visible light, an X.

433
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:44.039
<v Speaker 3>Ray because the energy drop is quite large, but not

434
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.000
<v Speaker 3>just any X ray, because the energy levels are shifted

435
00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:49.960
<v Speaker 3>just slightly by the presence of the other electrons what's

436
00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:52.079
<v Speaker 3>called a shielding effect. It would be an X ray

437
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.960
<v Speaker 3>at a very specific, predictable energy level, a specific color

438
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:56.839
<v Speaker 3>of X ray, if.

439
00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:59.000
<v Speaker 2>You will, and that color should not exist in nature.

440
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.240
<v Speaker 3>Physic says that transition is impossible, so that specific X

441
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.440
<v Speaker 3>ray should never ever be emitted by a copper atom.

442
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.160
<v Speaker 2>So they're basically looking for a very specific flash of

443
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.240
<v Speaker 2>X ray light that would be the smoking gun of

444
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.359
<v Speaker 2>a rule violation. It's like looking for a neon green swan.

445
00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:16.720
<v Speaker 2>If you see one, you know the laws of biology

446
00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:18.480
<v Speaker 2>as we understand them are broken.

447
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:23.799
<v Speaker 3>Precisely. It's an unambiguous signal. But here is the really

448
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.880
<v Speaker 3>clever part of the VIP two experiment, and this is

449
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:31.039
<v Speaker 3>a detail that Alessio Procelli, the late author, really emphasized

450
00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:33.640
<v Speaker 3>in the report. You can't just stare at a block

451
00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:34.759
<v Speaker 3>of copper and wait.

452
00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Why not. The electrons are already in there, they're whizzing around.

453
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:38.480
<v Speaker 2>One of them might cheat.

454
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.279
<v Speaker 3>Because of a subtle but very important rule in quantum mechanics,

455
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.920
<v Speaker 3>violations of this type are effectively forbidden from appearing in

456
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:48.680
<v Speaker 3>what we call a closed system.

457
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:50.440
<v Speaker 2>A closed system, if you just have.

458
00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:53.160
<v Speaker 3>A block of copper sitting there, the electrons have already

459
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:56.519
<v Speaker 3>settled into their states, they've established their pecking order, they

460
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.480
<v Speaker 3>are in a stable configuration. They obey something called the

461
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:04.240
<v Speaker 3>Messiah Greenberg super selection rule, which basically says, if you

462
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.759
<v Speaker 3>start with a system of pure fermions, it's going to

463
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.359
<v Speaker 3>stay a system of pure fermions.

464
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.200
<v Speaker 2>So it's like staring at a perfectly parked car and

465
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:12.200
<v Speaker 2>waiting for it to double park. It's already parked.

466
00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:15.119
<v Speaker 3>It's done exactly. To catch a violation, you need to

467
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.200
<v Speaker 3>introduce fresh players you need to create an open system.

468
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.440
<v Speaker 3>You need to probe the atoms with something new.

469
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.480
<v Speaker 2>An open system. How do they open it up?

470
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:27.119
<v Speaker 3>This is the genius of the experiment. Borcelli explains that

471
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:31.839
<v Speaker 3>they injected a huge number of new electrons into the

472
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.640
<v Speaker 3>copper target.

473
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.319
<v Speaker 2>How do you just inject electrons into a piece of metal.

474
00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:39.759
<v Speaker 3>Simple brute force. They run a DC current through it,

475
00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:41.960
<v Speaker 3>a very very strong electrical current.

476
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:43.359
<v Speaker 2>How strong are we talking about?

477
00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:44.240
<v Speaker 3>One hundred amps?

478
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.799
<v Speaker 2>Whoa one hundred amps? That's a lot of juice. That's

479
00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:51.640
<v Speaker 2>not your phone charger. That's like industrial welding level current.

480
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:54.039
<v Speaker 3>It is a massive amount of current. They had to

481
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:57.359
<v Speaker 3>have integrated cooling systems built into the apparatus just to

482
00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.200
<v Speaker 3>keep the copper strip from melting. But think about what

483
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:02.640
<v Speaker 3>a current actually is. It's a river of electrons. By

484
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:05.960
<v Speaker 3>running that current, they are forcing billions upon billions of

485
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.200
<v Speaker 3>new electrons to flow into the copper atoms every single second.

486
00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Uh okay, I see it now. So the current is

487
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.400
<v Speaker 2>basically a constant river of strangers flowing into the parking garage.

488
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:19.640
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and these new electrons they haven't established a relationship

489
00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:22.559
<v Speaker 3>with the copper atoms yet. They are naive they come

490
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:24.759
<v Speaker 3>zooming in looking for a spot to land or just

491
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:27.319
<v Speaker 3>a path to pass through. This is the moment of truth.

492
00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:28.240
<v Speaker 2>This is the real test.

493
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.240
<v Speaker 3>As these new electrons interact with the atoms, will they

494
00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:33.759
<v Speaker 3>all follow the rules and stay out of the occupied

495
00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.680
<v Speaker 3>lower levels, or will one of these fresh naive electrons

496
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:40.079
<v Speaker 3>try to slip into an occupied seat in the basement.

497
00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:43.039
<v Speaker 2>That makes so much sense. You're not just watching, You're

498
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:47.319
<v Speaker 2>actively stressing the system. You're throwing millions of new cars

499
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:50.200
<v Speaker 2>into the lot every second to see if chaos breaks out.

500
00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.200
<v Speaker 3>It creates what they call a clean and decisive test.

501
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:57.480
<v Speaker 3>It dramatically increases the probability of catching a violation if

502
00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:01.920
<v Speaker 3>one exists. It turns a static painting into a chaotic movie.

503
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.720
<v Speaker 2>So they have the mountain shield, they have the copper target,

504
00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:07.359
<v Speaker 2>they have the one hundred amp current pumping in fresh electrons,

505
00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:11.480
<v Speaker 2>and they have these ultralow noise X ray detectors watching

506
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:13.519
<v Speaker 2>like hawks. What kind of detectors are these?

507
00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:17.759
<v Speaker 3>They're called silicon drift detectors. They are extremely precise, a

508
00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:21.039
<v Speaker 3>type of CCD, and they are cool to incredibly low

509
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:25.039
<v Speaker 3>temperatures to reduce any thermal noise. They need to be

510
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:28.559
<v Speaker 3>able to distinguish a single forbidden X ray photon from

511
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:31.599
<v Speaker 3>any other background radiation that might get through the shielding.

512
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:33.839
<v Speaker 2>And how long did they run this? This doesn't sound

513
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:34.920
<v Speaker 2>like a weekend project.

514
00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:40.440
<v Speaker 3>Several years they monitored this target, collecting data, continuously filtering

515
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:46.319
<v Speaker 3>out background noise, calibrating, recalibrating, just waiting, waiting for that

516
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:49.480
<v Speaker 3>one specific X ray blip that would change the world.

517
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:52.759
<v Speaker 2>The patients involved. Is just staggering. The tension must have

518
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:55.079
<v Speaker 2>been incredible. I mean, every single time they checked the data,

519
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:57.279
<v Speaker 2>they could have been on the verge of rewriting all

520
00:24:57.319 --> 00:24:58.480
<v Speaker 2>of physics.

521
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.200
<v Speaker 3>Or confirming that everything is exactly as boring and stable

522
00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:04.920
<v Speaker 3>as we thought. That is the life of an experimental physicist.

523
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:09.200
<v Speaker 3>Ninety nine percent boredom, one percent sheer, terror or elation.

524
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:13.359
<v Speaker 2>Now the drum roll, please, After years under a mountain

525
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:16.720
<v Speaker 2>watching a supercharge piece of copper, what did they find?

526
00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:20.559
<v Speaker 3>Nothing? Silence, No such signals were observed. That's the line

527
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:21.119
<v Speaker 3>from the paper.

528
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Not a single one out of all those billions upon

529
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:27.200
<v Speaker 2>billions of electrons flowing through one hundred amps per years, not.

530
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:29.319
<v Speaker 3>A single forbidden transition was detected.

531
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.839
<v Speaker 2>Now to a regular person, that sounds like a failure.

532
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:34.200
<v Speaker 2>We spent years and millions of dollars looking for a

533
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.880
<v Speaker 2>ghost and we didn't find it. But in science, and

534
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:39.880
<v Speaker 2>especially in this kind of science, a null result is

535
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:41.160
<v Speaker 2>a huge deal.

536
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.240
<v Speaker 3>Right, It is massive. In fact, in precision physics, a

537
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.480
<v Speaker 3>null result is often more powerful and more important than

538
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.359
<v Speaker 3>a discovery, because it's not just we found nothing, it's

539
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.400
<v Speaker 3>we look this hard, with this much incredible precision and

540
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:57.119
<v Speaker 3>found nothing.

541
00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:58.839
<v Speaker 2>It lets them put a number on it.

542
00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:01.359
<v Speaker 3>It allows them to put another number on the probability,

543
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:02.920
<v Speaker 3>an upper limit the number.

544
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about this number, because the article says they

545
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:08.319
<v Speaker 2>set an upper limit on the probability of violation.

546
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.640
<v Speaker 3>Yes, based on the complete absence of a signal over

547
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.480
<v Speaker 3>the course of the experiment. They concluded that if the

548
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Speaker 3>poly exclusion principle is ever violated for electrons, the probability

549
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.240
<v Speaker 3>of it happening is smaller than two parts in ten

550
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:23.359
<v Speaker 3>to the power of forty three.

551
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:26.119
<v Speaker 2>Ten to the forty three. Okay, we throw around big

552
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:27.680
<v Speaker 2>numbers on this show all the time, but I really

553
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:30.319
<v Speaker 2>need to contextualize that ten to the forty three is

554
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.359
<v Speaker 2>a one followed by forty three zeros.

555
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.759
<v Speaker 3>Correct, It is a number so vast it is effectively

556
00:26:35.799 --> 00:26:37.119
<v Speaker 3>meaningless to the human brain.

557
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:40.039
<v Speaker 2>I tried to look up some comparisons for this, and honestly,

558
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.519
<v Speaker 2>our normal astronomical numbers don't even cut it. The universe

559
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:46.359
<v Speaker 2>is about thirteen point eight billion years old. Do you

560
00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:47.480
<v Speaker 2>know how many seconds that is?

561
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:50.559
<v Speaker 3>It's roughly four times ten to the seventeen seconds.

562
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so ten to the seventeen we are talking about

563
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:56.559
<v Speaker 2>ten to the forty three. That is, that's twenty six

564
00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:01.359
<v Speaker 2>orders of magnitude larger. That's a trillion, trillion times longer

565
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:02.440
<v Speaker 2>than the age of the universe.

566
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.799
<v Speaker 3>It dwarfs the number of atoms in the Earth. It

567
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.799
<v Speaker 3>dwarfs the number of stars in the observable universe. It's

568
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.720
<v Speaker 3>a different class of number. If you ran this experiment

569
00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:13.400
<v Speaker 3>once every second for the entire history of the universe

570
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:16.400
<v Speaker 3>since the Big Bang, you still wouldn't be anywhere close

571
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:18.400
<v Speaker 3>to hitting ten to the forty three trials.

572
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:21.119
<v Speaker 2>So when they say the probability is less than two

573
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:23.839
<v Speaker 2>in ten to the forty three, they are saying that

574
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:28.759
<v Speaker 2>the poly exclusion principle is really, really, really correct.

575
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:33.119
<v Speaker 3>It is aggressively correct. This is the strongest experimental constraint

576
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:37.400
<v Speaker 3>ever achieved for electrons and open systems. It basically says

577
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.920
<v Speaker 3>that if violations happen, they are so mind bogglingly rare

578
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:44.960
<v Speaker 3>that they might as well not exist for all practical purposes.

579
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.559
<v Speaker 2>It's like saying I'm ninety nine point ninety ninety nine,

580
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:49.480
<v Speaker 2>and then you just keep saying nine for another forty

581
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:51.839
<v Speaker 2>digits of percent. Sure of this wall of solid exactly.

582
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:55.039
<v Speaker 3>It means the note parking sign in the atomic garage

583
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:58.279
<v Speaker 3>isn't just a suggestion written on cardboard. It is a

584
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:02.200
<v Speaker 3>law enforced with an iron fie. The universe does not

585
00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:03.400
<v Speaker 3>tolerate cheaters.

586
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:07.000
<v Speaker 2>So the headline is physicists fail to break fundamental law

587
00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:10.880
<v Speaker 2>of the universe. But the fallout what this result means

588
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:14.000
<v Speaker 2>for the world of theoretical physics is where the real

589
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.799
<v Speaker 2>drama lies. Because there were people, smart people betting on

590
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:18.599
<v Speaker 2>those violations.

591
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:20.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh absolutely, Let's go back to those quand models we

592
00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:21.640
<v Speaker 3>talked about.

593
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Right, the middle ground particles, the ones that are only

594
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:25.039
<v Speaker 2>kind of fermions.

595
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.160
<v Speaker 3>Christian Pachikiu, who is another leading member of the VIP

596
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.359
<v Speaker 3>two collaboration, was pretty blunt about this in the report.

597
00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:35.720
<v Speaker 3>He said, and I'm quoting, our result places very stringent

598
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:41.039
<v Speaker 3>constraints on possible deviations strongly restricting the alternative quand models.

599
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Translating that from cautious scientists speak, quans are pretty much dead.

600
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:47.599
<v Speaker 3>Maybe not completely dead, but they are on life support,

601
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:49.799
<v Speaker 3>and the family has been called. If you are a

602
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:53.680
<v Speaker 3>theorist building a model where particles can be partially fermionic,

603
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:58.240
<v Speaker 3>you now have a massive, massive problem. Your model has

604
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:02.519
<v Speaker 3>to explain why that partial behavior is completely invisible to

605
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:04.400
<v Speaker 3>the tune of one in ten to the forty three.

606
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:07.359
<v Speaker 2>You have to fine tune your theory so precisely that

607
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:10.519
<v Speaker 2>it almost becomes absurd just to hide from this experiment.

608
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:13.799
<v Speaker 3>Right. It forces those theories into a box so small

609
00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:17.680
<v Speaker 3>they can barely breathe. It's Okham's razor swinging like a guillotine.

610
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.400
<v Speaker 3>The simplest explanation that electrons are pure, one hundred percent

611
00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:26.000
<v Speaker 3>antisocial fermions is winning by a landslide.

612
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.160
<v Speaker 2>It's like telling a storytelling. Okay, you can write a

613
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:31.160
<v Speaker 2>fantasy novel, but you can't use magic, dragons, elves, or swords.

614
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:33.519
<v Speaker 2>Eventually you just run out of room to tell that story.

615
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:35.519
<v Speaker 3>That's a great analogy, and it's the same thing for

616
00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:36.680
<v Speaker 3>that hidden structure idea.

617
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:39.480
<v Speaker 2>We talked about the squishy electrons made of smaller parts.

618
00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:43.200
<v Speaker 3>Right, if electrons had internal gears or were made of

619
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:47.400
<v Speaker 3>subparticles with some theories called preons, we would expect some give.

620
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:51.319
<v Speaker 3>We would accept that occasionally those internal parts would arrange

621
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:54.960
<v Speaker 3>themselves in just the right way to allow violation, a

622
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:58.480
<v Speaker 3>bit of wiggle room exactly. The profound silence from the

623
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:03.559
<v Speaker 3>VIP two experiment suggests that electrons are incredibly simple, incredibly rigid.

624
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.240
<v Speaker 2>They really are just points, no gears, no fluff, just

625
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:10.440
<v Speaker 2>a perfect indivisible dot of negative charge.

626
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:13.960
<v Speaker 3>It seems that way. This result is a huge victory

627
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:18.519
<v Speaker 3>for the boring but incredibly effective standard model. It reinforces

628
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.720
<v Speaker 3>the idea that elementary particles are truly elementary. They aren't

629
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:25.559
<v Speaker 3>legos made of smaller legos. They are the smallest, most

630
00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:26.400
<v Speaker 3>fundamental brick.

631
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:28.200
<v Speaker 2>And this has to ripple out to the search for

632
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:29.400
<v Speaker 2>quantum gravity too.

633
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:31.160
<v Speaker 3>The holy grail. Yes, there are all.

634
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:34.160
<v Speaker 2>These theories of quantum gravity that predict spacetime itself might

635
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:37.640
<v Speaker 2>be a little fuzzy or discreete and that this fuzziness

636
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:41.000
<v Speaker 2>might jostle an electron and make it violate the exclusion principle.

637
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.799
<v Speaker 3>Like driving on a really bumpy road might make you

638
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:44.480
<v Speaker 3>swerve out of your lane every now and then.

639
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:48.160
<v Speaker 2>That's a perfect analogy. If space time is bumpy, as

640
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:52.400
<v Speaker 2>predicted by quantum gravity, the electron might swerve and violate Polly.

641
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:56.039
<v Speaker 2>But VIP two shows the electron stays in its lane

642
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:58.599
<v Speaker 2>with absolute near perfect precision.

643
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:01.160
<v Speaker 3>So that tells us that the road space time must

644
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:05.279
<v Speaker 3>be incredibly smooth. Or if it is bumpy, the bumps

645
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:08.480
<v Speaker 3>are so ridiculously small they don't affect the electron at all,

646
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.200
<v Speaker 3>which brings us back to what Catalina Cercian who said,

647
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:15.279
<v Speaker 3>any viable extension of quantum theory must reproduce the Paule

648
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:18.160
<v Speaker 3>exclusion principle with extraordinary precision.

649
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:20.920
<v Speaker 2>It's become a gatekeeper. If you have a cool new

650
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.440
<v Speaker 2>theory about the universe, a new theory of everything, you

651
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:25.759
<v Speaker 2>have to bring it to the VIP two team. And

652
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:28.400
<v Speaker 2>if your theory predicts a violation rate that is bigger

653
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:30.799
<v Speaker 2>than one in ten to the forty three, they just

654
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.480
<v Speaker 2>shake their heads and say nope. Back to the drawing board.

655
00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:36.240
<v Speaker 3>Try again, exactly. It clears the board. It sweeps away

656
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.839
<v Speaker 3>a lot of speculative clutter and tells theorists the answer

657
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.960
<v Speaker 3>you're looking for isn't here look elsewhere. It saves us

658
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:44.400
<v Speaker 3>from wasting decades of brain power on what are now

659
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:45.039
<v Speaker 3>dead ends.

660
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.160
<v Speaker 2>I want to pivot for a second to something a

661
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:50.640
<v Speaker 2>bit more philosophical. Here we're talking about precision. We're talking

662
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:55.599
<v Speaker 2>about measuring nothing to an impossible, almost divine degree.

663
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:57.359
<v Speaker 3>It is the philosophy of precision.

664
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And the article mentions that this research gets support

665
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.880
<v Speaker 2>from the FQXi, the Foundational Questions Institute. They love funding

666
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.480
<v Speaker 2>this kind of deep fundamental stuff.

667
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:10.720
<v Speaker 3>If you do, they fund the deep, weird questions, the

668
00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:13.400
<v Speaker 3>high risk, high reward science that might not have an

669
00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:17.359
<v Speaker 3>immediate practical application but could change how we see everything.

670
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:20.720
<v Speaker 2>So why does precision matter so much? Why is it

671
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:23.799
<v Speaker 2>worth years of a physicist's life and millions of euros

672
00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:26.519
<v Speaker 2>just to add a few more decimal places to a zero.

673
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:29.279
<v Speaker 2>Why not just say Okay, it works really well and move.

674
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:32.599
<v Speaker 3>On, because precision is where the new physics hides. Think

675
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:36.000
<v Speaker 3>about how we discovered general relativity. It wasn't because Newton's

676
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:39.359
<v Speaker 3>laws of gravity were completely wrong. Newton was great. His

677
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:40.720
<v Speaker 3>laws get us to the moon.

678
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:42.680
<v Speaker 2>They worked just fine for most things.

679
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:45.480
<v Speaker 3>But the orbit of the planet Mercury was off off

680
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:48.599
<v Speaker 3>by a tiny, tiny fraction of degree per century, a

681
00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:51.599
<v Speaker 3>wobble in its orbit that Newton's theory just could.

682
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Not explain, and most people would just ignore that.

683
00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:57.799
<v Speaker 3>They did for decades. But by chasing that tiny wobble,

684
00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:03.400
<v Speaker 3>that tiny imperfection, Einstein revolutionized our entire understanding of gravity, space,

685
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:07.920
<v Speaker 3>and time. He realized Newton wasn't wrong, he was just incomplete.

686
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:11.440
<v Speaker 3>The VIP two team is looking for the wobble in

687
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:12.880
<v Speaker 3>the poly principle.

688
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:14.440
<v Speaker 2>And so far absolutely no wobble.

689
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:16.240
<v Speaker 3>Not a hint of a wobble, which brings us to

690
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:18.440
<v Speaker 3>what you could call the joy of nothing.

691
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:20.519
<v Speaker 2>The joy of nothing. I like that.

692
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:22.279
<v Speaker 3>There's a real comfort in this result.

693
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.880
<v Speaker 2>I feel it, I genuinely do. Knowing that the ground

694
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:28.359
<v Speaker 2>isn't going to suddenly turn to liquid and swallow me up,

695
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Knowing that chemistry is stable, it's nice to know the

696
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:32.599
<v Speaker 2>universe isn't glitchy.

697
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:35.359
<v Speaker 3>It implies a deep stability to the laws of nature.

698
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:37.920
<v Speaker 3>It suggests that the universe isn't just making it up

699
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:42.079
<v Speaker 3>as it goes along. There's a rigid, reliable structure to reality.

700
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:46.920
<v Speaker 2>But I also sense the frustration and the result.

701
00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:51.440
<v Speaker 3>Oh absolutely every experimentalist deep down wants to be the

702
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.799
<v Speaker 3>one to find the anomaly. They want to find the

703
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:56.240
<v Speaker 3>crack in the wall. The fact that the wall held

704
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:59.279
<v Speaker 3>up is incredibly impressive, but it's also a door slamming

705
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:01.599
<v Speaker 3>shut in your face. We wanted to see what was

706
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:02.400
<v Speaker 3>on the other side.

707
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, the universe is perfect. Go home laughs.

708
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.559
<v Speaker 3>Essentially, yes, but that doesn't mean you go home. It

709
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:11.880
<v Speaker 3>just means you have to build a bigger hammer to

710
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:13.280
<v Speaker 3>hit the wall with next time.

711
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:16.519
<v Speaker 2>And they are, aren't they. The article clearly mentions the sequel,

712
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.960
<v Speaker 2>VIP three, because VIP two wasn't precise enough.

713
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:22.000
<v Speaker 3>I ever enough. The team is already planning the next

714
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:24.719
<v Speaker 3>generation of the experiment. They want to push the sensitivity

715
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:25.360
<v Speaker 3>even further.

716
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:27.280
<v Speaker 2>How do you even get better than ten to the

717
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:28.320
<v Speaker 2>minus forty three?

718
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.320
<v Speaker 3>Better detectors, silicon drift detectors with even faster timing and

719
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:37.639
<v Speaker 3>better energy resolution, more shielding, maybe higher currents, different target materials,

720
00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:41.679
<v Speaker 3>longer observation times. It's a game of inches, or I guess,

721
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:43.840
<v Speaker 3>in this case, a game of femtometers.

722
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.119
<v Speaker 2>What's the goal ten to the minus fifty?

723
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:49.760
<v Speaker 3>Why not? The ultimate goal is to find the breaking point,

724
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:52.880
<v Speaker 3>or to prove to an even more ridiculous degree of

725
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:54.760
<v Speaker 3>certainty that there is no breaking point.

726
00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:57.320
<v Speaker 2>And let's say they never find a violation. Let's say

727
00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:59.719
<v Speaker 2>we get to VIP ten in the year twenty fifty

728
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:02.840
<v Speaker 2>and we're at ten to the minus one hundred. What

729
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:03.639
<v Speaker 2>does that tell us?

730
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:06.920
<v Speaker 3>That might be the most profound result of all. If

731
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:10.119
<v Speaker 3>the poly exclusion principle is truly absolute, if it is

732
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:13.440
<v Speaker 3>never ever violated, not even once, in the entire life

733
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.760
<v Speaker 3>span of the universe, it suggests that this rule is

734
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:20.119
<v Speaker 3>somehow different from other physical laws. How so, it's not

735
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.440
<v Speaker 3>just a description of how things move or interact like

736
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:25.840
<v Speaker 3>a force. It's more like a geometric necessity of reality.

737
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:28.519
<v Speaker 3>It would mean the universe is built on a kind

738
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:30.760
<v Speaker 3>of logic that simply cannot be broken.

739
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:33.559
<v Speaker 2>It's more like a mathematical truth than a physical law.

740
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:35.559
<v Speaker 3>Exactly, it's more like two plus two to four. You

741
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:38.360
<v Speaker 3>can't violate that. Maybe the exclusion principle is just two

742
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:39.800
<v Speaker 3>plus two oz for matter.

743
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:42.519
<v Speaker 2>A logic that cannot be broken, that is that is heavy.

744
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:44.719
<v Speaker 2>It is So, as we wrap up this deep dive,

745
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:46.880
<v Speaker 2>where does this leave us? What's the big picture?

746
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:50.199
<v Speaker 3>It leaves us standing on very very solid ground. Literally,

747
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.719
<v Speaker 3>we know that electrons are behaving themselves with a discipline

748
00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:57.760
<v Speaker 3>that is almost unimaginable. We know that the antisocial nature

749
00:35:57.800 --> 00:35:59.480
<v Speaker 3>of fermions is holding strong.

750
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.719
<v Speaker 2>My takeaway from all this is a new found respect

751
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:05.199
<v Speaker 2>for the humble electron. I usually just think of them

752
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:08.440
<v Speaker 2>as electricity, you know, just juice flowing through a wire.

753
00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:11.760
<v Speaker 2>But really they are the structural beams of the universe,

754
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:15.559
<v Speaker 2>and they are incredibly perfectly disciplined. They refuse to sit

755
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:18.440
<v Speaker 2>in an occupied seat, and that simple refusal is the

756
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.360
<v Speaker 2>only reason I exist to talk about them.

757
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.159
<v Speaker 3>That is a beautiful way to put it. My takeaway

758
00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:26.519
<v Speaker 3>is the sheer audacity of the experiment itself. We are

759
00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:29.639
<v Speaker 3>monkeys who evolved on a small rock orbiting an average star,

760
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:32.679
<v Speaker 3>and we build a machine inside a mountain to check

761
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:35.119
<v Speaker 3>the math of the universe to the forty third decimal place.

762
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:38.119
<v Speaker 3>That is something to be proud of as a species.

763
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:40.599
<v Speaker 2>It really is. It's the human spirit of inquiry at

764
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:41.599
<v Speaker 2>its absolute peak.

765
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:44.599
<v Speaker 3>And we aren't done. VIP three is coming. We will

766
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:47.159
<v Speaker 3>keep knocking on that door until it either opens or

767
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:49.119
<v Speaker 3>we realize it's just painted on the wall.

768
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:51.679
<v Speaker 2>Here's a thought to leave you with. Then we've spent

769
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.440
<v Speaker 2>this whole time talking about how the rules held up,

770
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:58.199
<v Speaker 2>how the universe didn't glitch. But think about this. We

771
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.159
<v Speaker 2>only know the rules hold up here in our quiet

772
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:04.760
<v Speaker 2>little corner of the galaxy at relatively low energies in

773
00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:05.360
<v Speaker 2>a block of.

774
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.360
<v Speaker 3>Copper, right under normal conditions, so to speak.

775
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:11.199
<v Speaker 2>What happens inside a black hole? What happened in the

776
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:15.239
<v Speaker 2>first nanosecond of the Big Bang? Does the paly principle

777
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:17.840
<v Speaker 2>still hold up when the universe is being crushed into

778
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:21.639
<v Speaker 2>a singularity under unimaginable gravity and temperature.

779
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:24.400
<v Speaker 3>Or does the no parking sign eventually get torn down

780
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:25.480
<v Speaker 3>by the sheer force.

781
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:28.679
<v Speaker 2>Of gravity exactly? That's the ultimate question. If gravity gets

782
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:31.480
<v Speaker 2>strong enough, can it finally force the electrons to give

783
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:33.400
<v Speaker 2>up their space and fall into the same state.

784
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:35.960
<v Speaker 3>If the exclusion principle fails at the center of a

785
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:39.960
<v Speaker 3>black hole, that might be what a singularity is, all.

786
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:42.880
<v Speaker 2>The matter finally collapsing into the forbidden seats.

787
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.000
<v Speaker 3>Into the forbidden seats.

788
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:46.360
<v Speaker 2>And that gives me something to think about me too,

789
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:48.559
<v Speaker 2>Until next time, Stay curious.
