Speaker 1: Get many tell me that.
Speaker 2: Okay, if you're listening to my little online radio station,
Speaker 2: this is coming on at an odd time of day
Speaker 2: if you're hearing it live, and it just is the
Speaker 2: seventh day of November twenty twenty five, allegedly, according to
Speaker 2: that thing we call a calendar. And we're doing a
Speaker 2: special here today. And what's it about the Lancer Conference
Speaker 2: coming up November twenty first to the twenty third, Yes,
Speaker 2: this month, a few weeks from now. I'll be starting
Speaker 2: on my road trip on the nineteenth actually, but from
Speaker 2: the twenty first to the twenty third, we'll be live
Speaker 2: in Dallas, and i'm the MC over there. So today,
Speaker 2: what I've got is the best guests that I could
Speaker 2: sort of gather together a couple of weeks before. It's
Speaker 2: a little more than two weeks away, and I think
Speaker 2: it's a pretty diverse group of guys that we got there,
Speaker 2: A group of guys and gals actually that are going
Speaker 2: to be doing presentations, panels and everything, and God help
Speaker 2: you all. I've actually had something to do with the
Speaker 2: selection process this time. I'm not in charge of it,
Speaker 2: but I've been involved. So anyway, I'm really happy actually
Speaker 2: to kick this off a little early, although it's a
Speaker 2: little late. I meant to go on air well about
Speaker 2: ten minutes ago.
Speaker 3: But that's okay.
Speaker 2: We're going to get to it quickly because I know
Speaker 2: how to speak quickly, and so does this guy.
Speaker 3: Johnny Karen's has.
Speaker 2: Been on this show one other time, and I was
Speaker 2: having a hard time remembering it because it was years ago.
Speaker 2: But I'll tell you that is a mistake on my part.
Speaker 2: I should have had this guy on more. And when
Speaker 2: I met him in Dallas, I was really really happy,
Speaker 2: first of all, who I was looking at, the kind
Speaker 2: of energy I got from this guy, the enthusiasm, and
Speaker 2: quite frankly, the solid research he was doing, which I
Speaker 2: got to watch in the presentation later, because again I
Speaker 2: was doing five jobs that weekend, so I didn't necessarily
Speaker 2: watch everybody's presentation. But Johnny I got to see outside
Speaker 2: of the conference a little bit. I think we were
Speaker 2: at the same dinner.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 2: It's a blur at this point, but this is one
Speaker 2: of those good guys that I hope I can bring
Speaker 2: on here more in case you guys have all forgotten
Speaker 2: about him.
Speaker 3: Though.
Speaker 2: Let's see how he's doing. He's talking to us from
Speaker 2: over on the other side of the pond. Okay, so
Speaker 2: note the accent, you know, like I don't have one,
Speaker 2: right I know?
Speaker 3: Anyways, Johnny? First off, how you doing today? Uh? Oh?
Speaker 3: Did I lose Johnny? I had him here. I swear
Speaker 3: to he was connected. Let me see. I couldn't have
Speaker 3: lost him already, did I?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 3: I see him? I do hear you.
Speaker 2: Look, you can shut off your camera if you want
Speaker 2: because I'm not using the video. Let's get the audio
Speaker 2: straight though, because I go.
Speaker 3: Hey, Johnny, how you doing? And nothing? So I feel
Speaker 3: foolish anyways.
Speaker 2: Yet, reintroduce yourself. I don't know if you heard everything
Speaker 2: I just said, but I tried to go quick. You know,
Speaker 2: I want to get into what it is you're going
Speaker 2: to present and all that, and I'll let you roll
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 3: But first, how you doing today, sir?
Speaker 5: I'm good? Thanks set Kerry.
Speaker 3: You doing oh well?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm surviving. Like I said, I really want
Speaker 2: to try and get you on here more in the future,
Speaker 2: because I mean, I was very sick after the time
Speaker 2: that you and I met in Dallas. But frankly, it's
Speaker 2: one of those things, what are you going to do?
Speaker 2: But I meant to start getting you on the show
Speaker 2: more often, and I've failed to do so my fault,
Speaker 2: because we need to get you back on.
Speaker 3: By the way, those your dogs are mine probably mine. Anyhow,
Speaker 3: here we go.
Speaker 2: They're broadcasting from home, So tell us about what it
Speaker 2: is you're going to be presenting, get people a background,
Speaker 2: and I'll kind of turn down my sound so that
Speaker 2: the weenie dogs don't disturb us here. I got little dogs,
Speaker 2: a bunch of them here, so we'll try and keep
Speaker 2: them from disturbing us. But tell us about what it
Speaker 2: is you're going to be presenting and everything else, please.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 5: So. My name is Jeanny Kirns.
Speaker 6: I have been caught up in the research and the
Speaker 6: life and the assassination of President Kennedy since I was
Speaker 6: around thirteen years old. I've never really done it seriously
Speaker 6: until I don't know, maybe seventeen eighteen, and it's just
Speaker 6: something that I've just done all these years.
Speaker 5: I've written.
Speaker 6: I write for Kennedy's and King, which joined the Eugenio's website.
Speaker 5: I've written numerous articles on the case.
Speaker 6: My most best work, I think, is my six part
Speaker 6: article which I've done for the sixtieth anniversary in twenty
Speaker 6: twenty three.
Speaker 5: And I have.
Speaker 6: Ever since then, I've been speaking at different conferences, especially
Speaker 6: the conference in the UK for Daily Players the UK,
Speaker 6: and mostly reading things. You know, my focus is shifting
Speaker 6: now in the assass the nation more to the lifer
Speaker 6: John Kennedy. So this is what I'm talking about at
Speaker 6: Lanser for this conference. I'm just I'm indicted.
Speaker 5: I'm not going to be there in person.
Speaker 2: But right well, let me let me interrupt you for
Speaker 2: a second. Because you're younger than me. I'm certain of that.
Speaker 2: I mean, if not, I got to tell you, you're
Speaker 2: making me feel terrible if you're anywhere near my age.
Speaker 3: But I don't think you are. How old are you?
Speaker 6: I will be fairly five and start next month, so
Speaker 6: I'm fairly ford.
Speaker 3: Just now, Okay, okay, so I understand your progression. Okay.
Speaker 2: You joined it into the JFK assassination research around the
Speaker 2: same time I did. So what happens here is like,
Speaker 2: you know, we got into it as teenagers, and of
Speaker 2: course our focus might have been different at that time.
Speaker 2: I'm older, so it was around the twenty fifth anniversary
Speaker 2: when my teenage entrance happened. You look kind of like
Speaker 2: a musician. I was a musician at the time. Do
Speaker 2: you play any I forget these these questions because we
Speaker 2: only met that one time when you came over with
Speaker 2: Dealy Plaza UK as a group.
Speaker 5: I think, go ahead, Yeah, that's right, So I do play.
Speaker 6: I play guitar, and my girlfriend would would say not
Speaker 6: very well, but to me I sounded like a prime
Speaker 6: John Lennon nice I do.
Speaker 5: I do love all sorts of music.
Speaker 6: One of my favorite artists at the minute, in fact,
Speaker 6: is a guy.
Speaker 5: Called Steven Wilson Jr. Who's guy from Indiana. I went
Speaker 5: to see him live.
Speaker 6: Earlier this year in Glasgow. Totally blew my mind. He
Speaker 6: is a country and some of the best lyrics I've
Speaker 6: heard in a very long time. So that's kind of
Speaker 6: where I am. And then the minute with the music stuff. Bobby,
Speaker 6: you Chuck, what do you listen to?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, mainly I was a hard rocking, heavy metal kind
Speaker 2: of guy, and frankly I played all kinds of music though,
Speaker 2: you know, I did everything from wedding bands and blues
Speaker 2: and jazz straight on to death metal and punk, you know,
Speaker 2: in my time. But I'm a bit older now and
Speaker 2: you know, but it does give you a different flavor
Speaker 2: when you're dealing there. There are certain people that are
Speaker 2: in the research community that were musicians, and believe it
Speaker 2: or not, we end up gravitating toward each other a
Speaker 2: little bit.
Speaker 3: Like I said, I.
Speaker 2: Kind of like you, And that's a weird thing to
Speaker 2: say because I only met you a one time, and
Speaker 2: I met like hundreds of researchers and you're one of these.
Speaker 3: Guys where I was like, oh, thank god.
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I think I blurted out
Speaker 2: to you at the restaurant at Campezies. I think I
Speaker 2: blurted out to you, Oh thank god, somebody the looking
Speaker 2: at you.
Speaker 3: I know you're one of my guys.
Speaker 5: So it was like it was the tattoos, Chuck, it
Speaker 5: was the tattoos.
Speaker 3: That's what it was.
Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, So okay, now we've sidetracked a bit, and
Speaker 2: we got Larry Hancock coming up in about fifteen twenty minutes.
Speaker 2: So let's get back to your research though, because you've
Speaker 2: shifted and we did talk about Oswald the last time
Speaker 2: you were on the show. You've been to Dealey Plaza.
Speaker 2: Now you know you've actually made the trip from over
Speaker 2: on the other side of the pond to hear been
Speaker 2: to Dallas presented at the conferences. I wish you were
Speaker 2: going to be in person this year, but unfortunately, Look,
Speaker 2: maybe it's better because with the way the airplanes are
Speaker 2: going here with the government shutdown, who knows. Anyways, maybe
Speaker 2: it's safer for you to stay over there this year.
Speaker 2: But I really wish you were coming, but you've shifted around.
Speaker 3: So tell us what.
Speaker 2: Just give us an idea why it is you're going
Speaker 2: into the life of Kennedy now, just from like your
Speaker 2: motivation standpoint, and then give us an idea, like, you know,
Speaker 2: what are you going to do. We're going to talk
Speaker 2: about his his later political life or are you going
Speaker 2: to give us a kind of a broad view of
Speaker 2: the whole thing. Are you going to go back to
Speaker 2: him being in Congress, or are you're going to go
Speaker 2: back to the local stuff when he was still trying
Speaker 2: to ride on the Fitzgerald you know sort of family line,
Speaker 2: which is the other side, not the Kennedy side of
Speaker 2: his family, you know, when he was using that because
Speaker 2: he had Honey fitz as a relative. Maybe people don't
Speaker 2: know about that in Boston politics. How deep are you're
Speaker 2: going to go into it? Is it going to be
Speaker 2: political personal.
Speaker 5: What it's going to be personal.
Speaker 6: For sure. I I still believe in John Kennedy. And
Speaker 6: that's a strange thing to say, considering he's been dead
Speaker 6: for nearly sixty two years.
Speaker 5: But I still believe in him and his ideals.
Speaker 6: John Kennedy is someone that isn't in a history book.
Speaker 6: To me, he is a live and breathing ideal and
Speaker 6: it is something that guides me in my life. Not
Speaker 6: to make him out to be like a saint or
Speaker 6: anything like that. He was profoundly human, just like the
Speaker 6: rest of us are.
Speaker 5: Right, But there's there's, there's there's there's.
Speaker 6: Examples in his life and his presidency that really inspire
Speaker 6: me today.
Speaker 5: For example, p.
Speaker 6: T One O nine, the fact that he swam with
Speaker 6: one of his crew men on his back for over
Speaker 6: three miles. It's an extraordinary act of courage and.
Speaker 5: Stuff like that. You know, it just really continues to inspire. Fact.
Speaker 6: The fact of the matter is, I go back to
Speaker 6: some of the speeches that he delivered. You know a
Speaker 6: lot of people gravitate towards the you know, the June tenth,
Speaker 6: nineteen sixty.
Speaker 5: Three America University University. It's a great speech.
Speaker 2: Yes, for me, Sorry, I blurred it out loud, but
Speaker 2: I blurred it out loud when you said the date
Speaker 2: I said the American University Speech. I wasn't even thinking
Speaker 2: when I said it. And it's it's true.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but Jun ten sixty three, right, right?
Speaker 2: So what was so profound about that? I mean, to
Speaker 2: you personally, I know what I would say, but this
Speaker 2: isn't about me. So what what is it that stands
Speaker 2: out to you there? And why do you think this
Speaker 2: is important? I mean, look, there's been lots of years.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're twenty years younger than me about and
Speaker 2: I wasn't even alive when he died. I was particularly
Speaker 2: touched by the fact that we would have been extracted
Speaker 2: from the Vietnam War as an American and that affected
Speaker 2: me directly personally. But what is the personal attachment you
Speaker 2: have to this? And why is it the American University speech?
Speaker 2: Just to give us a hint about one of the
Speaker 2: most widely talked about speeches he gave, generally speaking, what
Speaker 2: is it about that that attracts you to it and
Speaker 2: makes you think that it was something obviously special to you?
Speaker 5: I speak humanity in the speech.
Speaker 6: I don't bought am Robert Kennedy and American politics, on
Speaker 6: even politics in general.
Speaker 5: I haven't seen anyone make a speech like.
Speaker 6: That, and the preceding sixty two years since the events
Speaker 6: in Delli Plaza as the fact is that he tried
Speaker 6: to get.
Speaker 5: Us to wrecking ourselves in the other side.
Speaker 6: You know, we all breathe the same air, We all
Speaker 6: charged our children's future, and we're all MOrTL John Kennedy
Speaker 6: was profoundly touched and motivated by children. In fact, during
Speaker 6: their thirteen Days of October nineteen sixty two, one of
Speaker 6: the things that really caused them a lot of pain
Speaker 6: was the you know, the children around the world who
Speaker 6: would be killed as a result of nuclear confrontation with
Speaker 6: the Soviet Union. You know, children who had no role,
Speaker 6: who had no say in whose lives would be snuffed
Speaker 6: out along with the rest of us. And I don't
Speaker 6: know if you know, but when he fought for the
Speaker 6: nuclear the limited nuclear test Bantry, John Kennedy, against all odds,
Speaker 6: got passed. And again when he found out that the
Speaker 6: fallout you know, from these tests came down in the atmosphere,
Speaker 6: in the rain, you know, and it would it would
Speaker 6: you know, it would affect the soil, It would affect
Speaker 6: children born and yet to be born. Kenny o'donald said,
Speaker 6: it's one of the most depressed they've ever seen them.
Speaker 6: He was watching the rain fall outside the window into
Speaker 6: the rose garden, and he said, and I'm just paraphrasing here,
Speaker 6: that even the result of the malformation of one baby
Speaker 6: as a result of the nuclear testing should be a
Speaker 6: front of us all for this generation and generations yet unborn.
Speaker 6: I just don't see that humanity and and and not
Speaker 6: just a politician and uh and and another human being.
Speaker 6: I think it's very profound and one that again, something
Speaker 6: that I think that's often overlooked is the political courage
Speaker 6: it took for As to address the nation the next
Speaker 6: night and Janie eleventhineteen sixty.
Speaker 5: Three on civil rights.
Speaker 6: President Kennedy was told, or he was informed not to
Speaker 6: do it.
Speaker 5: The fear was that it would not only cost.
Speaker 6: The Democratic Party of the South for generations to come,
Speaker 6: but I would also cost him in nineteen sixty four election. Right,
Speaker 6: But he done it because it was the right thing
Speaker 6: to do.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 3: See, that's the thing, Johnny. And that's the thing, Johnny.
Speaker 3: You know what.
Speaker 2: I'm not one of these guys who tries to apply
Speaker 2: sainthood to John Kennedy either. But I think it is
Speaker 2: extremely important to recognize that there was a huge difference
Speaker 2: in the way this man conducted himself from what we
Speaker 2: see today. And that difference was seen not only in
Speaker 2: the nuclear test ban treaty, but you know, because remember
Speaker 2: I started researching this around the time you were born, Okay,
Speaker 2: And the thing is this, what I see is a
Speaker 2: guy who was continuously under pressure. He was being told
Speaker 2: that we could win in a nuclear exchange with the
Speaker 2: Soviet Union. He was told that we could get that done.
Speaker 2: By his military leadership. He was being pressured to go
Speaker 2: to war over conflicts that stemmed from places like Germany, Laos,
Speaker 2: you know, and other places before Vietnam, but also including Vietnam.
Speaker 2: And you know, let's invade Cuba, let's do this, let's
Speaker 2: do that. He had pressures on him, and you know what,
Speaker 2: it would have been easier, It would have made more money.
Speaker 2: It would have attracted you know, a certain like hawkish
Speaker 2: political you know, cachet to him. It would have given
Speaker 2: him political capital among certain people in the United States,
Speaker 2: and it certainly would have given him the thanks, so
Speaker 2: to speak, of the military industrial complex in general who
Speaker 2: would have been more than happy to prop it off
Speaker 2: a bloodshed no matter where it was. And this guy
Speaker 2: repeatedly did exactly the opposite thing. And I think the consideration,
Speaker 2: in part is exactly what you're laying out, which is,
Speaker 2: you know what, there's a whole And I bring this
Speaker 2: up all the time, not inspired by John Kennedy, but
Speaker 2: inspired by common sense that no matter what, if we're
Speaker 2: going to loose the monster of war one way or another,
Speaker 2: people make a lot of brash statements. They make a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, sweeping statements about well, we'll just
Speaker 2: go to war, we'll just bomb these people, things like this,
Speaker 2: and I don't mean just politicians, but regular people. And
Speaker 2: the thing is, this is a guy who said no,
Speaker 2: And this is a guy who considered that there would
Speaker 2: be people injured, there would be people killed, there would
Speaker 2: be people impacted that never ever had anything to do
Speaker 2: with that conflict, with that weaponry, with that war, with
Speaker 2: that prophet, with any of it. And I think that
Speaker 2: was a major consideration here, and that, my friend, is
Speaker 2: what we call leadership of a different time period than
Speaker 2: what we see now. I'm not naming names, I'm just
Speaker 2: saying it's a different kind of leadership, especially in America.
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts about what I said? Do you object? No?
Speaker 6: I think as a leadership that we were longing for,
Speaker 6: were craving for.
Speaker 5: And that's not just in the United States. I think
Speaker 5: it's all over.
Speaker 6: John Kennedy gets there's a lot of their opinion divided
Speaker 6: over Vietnam. The one thing I will say to people
Speaker 6: that think that John Kennedy would have took the same
Speaker 6: course of action as Lyndon Johnson did is that John
Speaker 6: Kennedy knew that, and he told us to Mike Mansfield
Speaker 6: and Kenny O'Donnell actually in the days leading up to Dallas,
Speaker 6: that if he tried to get out of Vietnam, then
Speaker 6: they would have had another Joseph McCarthy red scare on
Speaker 6: their hands. It would have been denounced as a communist appeaser.
Speaker 6: But when he got reelection, that's when he could have
Speaker 6: really pulled out. And again he signed in SAM two
Speaker 6: to sixty three first one thousand troops home. But the
Speaker 6: political landscape at the time was, you know that they
Speaker 6: couldn't no politician could be seen to, you know, lose
Speaker 6: ground to communists and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 5: But John Kennedy was never going into Vietnam.
Speaker 6: He was told on numerous occasions to bomb moref Vietnam,
Speaker 6: bomb the hopes human trail, and put ground troops into
Speaker 6: to Vietnam, and he never done it. Once he was
Speaker 6: told to go to Warren Berlin, he was told to
Speaker 6: go to Warren Laos, he was told to go to
Speaker 6: war in Cuba, he was told to go to warre
Speaker 6: in Vietnam, and every time he rejected it. Yet Lyndon Johnson,
Speaker 6: when he was presented with war, he took it at
Speaker 6: the first opportunity. And that's the difference between Kennedy and Johnson.
Speaker 6: As Robert Kennedy says, you know, they used to have
Speaker 6: a president who was a gentleman, and now they've got
Speaker 6: a president he would only be nice to if you
Speaker 6: want to kiss hiss behind all the time, right, you know.
Speaker 6: But yeah, that's so that's what that's what inspires me
Speaker 6: about it. And that's the tragedy of of Daily Plaza.
Speaker 6: Of course, as well, he was he was he was
Speaker 6: half the days.
Speaker 5: On this earth. You know, he was spent in excruciating agony.
Speaker 5: He had a bad back.
Speaker 6: He was given the last ride to the Catholic church
Speaker 6: four times before his inauguration, but he kept on going.
Speaker 5: And it would have been easy for him to live a.
Speaker 6: Life a luxury, to live a life where you know,
Speaker 6: he didn't need to go to public service. But one
Speaker 6: of his favorite books was Pilgrim's Way and it was
Speaker 6: written by a Scotsman called John Buckan whose name is
Speaker 6: Lord Tweedsmere, and he said that politics is still the
Speaker 6: greatest and most honorable adventure in John Kennedy believed that,
Speaker 6: and I think if you look at his life and
Speaker 6: his presidency, I think that shines through well.
Speaker 2: Outside of the Lancer conference, where can my listeners go
Speaker 2: to follow up to see what it is you're working on?
Speaker 3: Do you have a central place?
Speaker 2: Are you working on putting anything together where we can
Speaker 2: see Johnny Kern's work, you know, for ourselves. I mean,
Speaker 2: is there a link I can share with people or
Speaker 2: anything like that? Or do you just say go look
Speaker 2: at my articles and look at my presentations or you
Speaker 2: got something upcoming?
Speaker 3: What's happening with you?
Speaker 5: So am I do right?
Speaker 6: For Kennedys and King, I've wrote numerous articles. All articles
Speaker 6: are basically on there. If you type my name into YouTube,
Speaker 6: you'll find presentations that I've done in the past, and
Speaker 6: I also co authored a book with a Canadian researcher,
Speaker 6: a guy called Dave O'Brien.
Speaker 5: Dave was a.
Speaker 6: Reporter who got access to the Texas School Book to
Speaker 6: positry in the nineteen seventies when the building was basically
Speaker 6: derelict and the books called case not Closed, which obviously
Speaker 6: was the playing words of the Gerald Posner book.
Speaker 5: So yeah, most of my work is on Kennys and King.
Speaker 6: I have got an article that's going to be coming
Speaker 6: out on the twenty second and is going to be
Speaker 6: a tribute to it.
Speaker 5: Fridge John F. Kennedy.
Speaker 6: So for anyone that wants to be my latest work
Speaker 6: will be on Kennyth and Kenglin.
Speaker 3: The twenty second excellent.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I look forward to that on the twenty second,
Speaker 2: but also look forward to seeing your presentation at Lancer.
Speaker 2: And you know, I appreciate you taking the time today
Speaker 2: to do this with me, and I'm more than happy
Speaker 2: I got to get you on more in the future.
Speaker 3: Johnny.
Speaker 2: That's that's what I gotta do because I appreciate the energy.
Speaker 2: I have similar thoughts to you, and again, I just
Speaker 2: by meeting this guy I knew exactly. I was looking
Speaker 2: at somebody that I want to follow and pay attention to,
Speaker 2: another younger guy than myself. And I'm happy to see
Speaker 2: that also, because you know, my generation was kind of
Speaker 2: not as full as the previous generation when he came
Speaker 2: to the research community, and I was kind of feeling
Speaker 2: like we were losing the next generation or two.
Speaker 3: But thank the Gods.
Speaker 2: I've got you and Alex Harris and a couple other
Speaker 2: guys that I've run into that let me know that
Speaker 2: there's younger guys out there. I mean, really, if I
Speaker 2: put you in Alex Harris's ages together, I don't think
Speaker 2: I get mine, all right, So you know, here we go.
Speaker 2: I'm getting to be one of the older guys, although
Speaker 2: I'm going to get in a slightly older guy. And
Speaker 2: I say that with all the joking there because I
Speaker 2: love them. Larry Hancock coming up next, but you know,
Speaker 2: there's the generation before me, and I'm happy to see
Speaker 2: that we're going to continue on because eventually, my friend,
Speaker 2: I want to get at something that resembles a full
Speaker 2: public disclosure regarding the truth about what happened here. I
Speaker 2: think it's important for the reasons that you're laying out
Speaker 2: and your presentation, your upcoming article, and your current you know,
Speaker 2: vein of research that you're tapping into. And I look
Speaker 2: forward to seeing what you're going to do in the future.
Speaker 2: And hope I'm going to be able to get you
Speaker 2: on here more so we can talk about it and
Speaker 2: I can keep up with you a little bit better.
Speaker 2: So Johnny, again, thanks so much for joining.
Speaker 6: Me, love, thanks for having me so as a pleasure, Chuck,
Speaker 6: and I look forward to speaking to you again.
Speaker 3: Absolutely soon, I hope.
Speaker 2: And so with that, I was going to take a break,
Speaker 2: but since Larry Hancock is actually with us already, I
Speaker 2: think I'll just see if Larry, are you ready to go?
Speaker 3: Do you want to talk to me yet? Or should
Speaker 3: I take a break.
Speaker 1: No, I'm fine, Chuck.
Speaker 7: You know, as an old guy, I got up early
Speaker 7: for my afternoon nap and it's just a few minutes
Speaker 7: before time to eat, So I'm good.
Speaker 2: Listen, I'm getting at that age though you and I
Speaker 2: would be trading nap times if we were anywhere near
Speaker 2: each other. It would be like, well, look, i'm taping
Speaker 2: my nap here, you take yours there, and we'd figure
Speaker 2: it out. But you know, Johnny, I don't know if
Speaker 2: you want to hang out or if you want to disconnect,
Speaker 2: but you could hang out if you want and take
Speaker 2: a listen to what Larry and I are going to
Speaker 2: talk about up to you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I might listen for a bit.
Speaker 6: It's because it's so late here, I might have to
Speaker 6: slink away. But I'm always interested in what Larry's got
Speaker 6: to say, so I'll definitely stay around for a wee bit.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, So you just hang out Johnny and Larry.
Speaker 2: It's you know, long time no talk. You and I
Speaker 2: talk every couple.
Speaker 1: Of weeks, like, oh yeah, days.
Speaker 3: A few days ago. That's okay.
Speaker 2: I love talking to you, Larry. I'd have you on
Speaker 2: every week if I thought I could convince you to
Speaker 2: do it. But you know, it's it's interesting Johnny's talking
Speaker 2: about the you know, the living legacy so to speak,
Speaker 2: when it comes to the JFK a bit more. But
Speaker 2: you have been as of late focused kind of on Well,
Speaker 2: let's just go with it. The Oswalt Puzzle, which is
Speaker 2: the name of your latest book, which I highly recommend
Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, if you if you want
Speaker 2: the truth, I would say I recommend it above you
Speaker 2: know Larry's other work on the case, depending on what.
Speaker 3: It is you want to look into.
Speaker 2: It is one of the best pieces that you put
Speaker 2: out yourself and David Boyland together. He's your co author,
Speaker 2: and you'll be presenting with him this year at Lancer
Speaker 2: again virtually. Unfortunately, I wish you were going to be
Speaker 2: there in person too, but I'll be there and we'll
Speaker 2: get your virtual presentation yours and David's. Can you give
Speaker 2: us a hint what it is that you know you're
Speaker 2: working on, going to be doing so on and so forth,
Speaker 2: you know, give us an idea talk about the conference.
Speaker 3: The floor is yours, sir. Oh sure.
Speaker 7: Well, First of all, I really do miss being at
Speaker 7: the conference. I know David does as well. I was
Speaker 7: at the conference in person for the better part of
Speaker 7: two decades every year, trip down to Dallas, drive down
Speaker 7: to Dallas, enjoyed, enjoy you know, local visits and doing
Speaker 7: tours in Dallas. I led walking tours for years. So
Speaker 7: I do miss the physical presence for sure, There's no
Speaker 7: doubt about that. And all the I probably did more
Speaker 7: research in the hallways, you know, talking to Malcolm Blunt
Speaker 7: behind a pointed platt.
Speaker 1: Malcolm, you know, slipping some documents my way, or meeting
Speaker 1: with Jim or.
Speaker 7: Just a host of people that could be either Jim, Jim,
Speaker 7: Mar Jim d Gdo you know that used to be
Speaker 7: used to be an activity I look forward to every year.
Speaker 1: So I do miss the in person part, but.
Speaker 7: I'm happy I'm still able to do it remotely and
Speaker 7: still able to participate remotely and hopefully going to have
Speaker 7: some dialogues with people during the conference, even outside our presentation,
Speaker 7: remotely as it were.
Speaker 5: But so I'm looking.
Speaker 3: Forward to it.
Speaker 7: I wouldn't want November to pass by without it, even
Speaker 7: if I can't be there in person. As far as
Speaker 7: the hint of what we're talking about, David and I
Speaker 7: are talking about, we're following along the trail that we
Speaker 7: opened up in the Oswell Puzzle. And I would have
Speaker 7: to say, just as a personal declaration, having been in
Speaker 7: it for so long, you know, you get into this
Speaker 7: research and at some point in time you have to
Speaker 7: satisfy yourself, you know what am I going to focus on?
Speaker 1: What's going to answer my burning question? And to some
Speaker 1: extent I did that.
Speaker 7: I did that with Tipping Point, which laid out what
Speaker 7: my conclusions were on the actual nature of the conspiracy,
Speaker 7: and someone would have talked. I laid out my thoughts
Speaker 7: on the nature of the cover up, and I view
Speaker 7: the two as partially linked but not totally part of
Speaker 7: any grand plan.
Speaker 1: But that takes us to Lee Harvey Oswell.
Speaker 7: Because that at the end of all of that, my
Speaker 7: view was Oswell a certainly is innocent Oswell as a patsy.
Speaker 7: Oswell is just not any patsy, but it's a patsy
Speaker 7: ordered obtained to point the finger of the assassination in
Speaker 7: a certain direction, not just to make it. Don't think
Speaker 7: the conspiracy ever intended him to be a loan nut.
Speaker 7: That's probably the only satisfaction I take out of the
Speaker 7: whole thing is that part of the plan failed, failed miserably,
Speaker 7: or was obstructed. Let's put it that way. It didn't
Speaker 7: come out. The whole thing didn't come out what they
Speaker 7: wanted it to be.
Speaker 1: So that makes me feel good.
Speaker 7: But so David and I, that's what took us to
Speaker 7: take another look at Lee Harvey Oswald, totally revisiting Oswald
Speaker 7: regardless of anything I've written in the past. We took
Speaker 7: it a new approach, and what we're doing now is
Speaker 7: extending our research, we've been I guess for the last
Speaker 7: six months, we've been continuing to research two sets of
Speaker 7: leads really and two sets of leads with some input
Speaker 7: from the new doc releases that point us towards all
Speaker 7: who knew Oswald, who knew about him, who would have
Speaker 7: been in a position to target him for particular purpose,
Speaker 7: who would have had the ability to reach out to him.
Speaker 7: I know, twenty years ago, twenty five years ago, one
Speaker 7: of my biggest.
Speaker 1: Questions was as well, who knew him well enough to
Speaker 1: make him a patsy? Who knew him?
Speaker 5: Where was he visible?
Speaker 1: And if you think he was visible, And if you think.
Speaker 7: The conspiracy involved elements of CIA operations people, then how.
Speaker 1: Did they know about him?
Speaker 7: And one of the things that has come about, fortunately
Speaker 7: is that with David's efforts at mapping and understanding the
Speaker 7: CIA's paramilitary operations and their anti Cuban operations, which has
Speaker 7: taken years, with a lot of cryptbusting that a lot
Speaker 7: of us have done Simpic and others so that we
Speaker 7: can actually read documents, not just read documents, but trace
Speaker 7: the document.
Speaker 1: Flow, who's copied, where is it going? Oh, what's their
Speaker 1: jobs they working with? We just right, and it reached
Speaker 1: a whole new level, right.
Speaker 2: And this is important because look, at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, if Oswald is nothing else, he's useful as
Speaker 2: an element in the propaganda and the propaganda that emerges
Speaker 2: as a result of you know, the the sort of
Speaker 2: the blowback, the aftermath of the assassination itself, the way.
Speaker 3: They dealt with it, you know, in real time.
Speaker 2: But also to create you know, the legend, to create
Speaker 2: the character on the media stage that would ever after
Speaker 2: be useful. This was all engineered in a certain way,
Speaker 2: and I think that gives you some hints as to
Speaker 2: who was interested, because he had to be cultivated. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a reason why he gets radio interviews, there's a
Speaker 2: reason why the television station you know, captures him at
Speaker 2: a certain time doing the activity he does.
Speaker 3: That was all arranged. That was all, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying.
Speaker 2: In other words, these things had to be created so
Speaker 2: that you had a workable legend and you had something
Speaker 2: to distribute across the nation when the news went live,
Speaker 2: and this way, I mean every place in the in
Speaker 2: the United States and probably across the world got to
Speaker 2: hear this guy saying, no, I'm not a communist. I'm
Speaker 2: a Marxist Leninist. You know, this was useful because of
Speaker 2: the current, you know, state of affairs when it came
Speaker 2: to the Cold War, et cetera. So I think that
Speaker 2: is is useful information. And David is developing a way
Speaker 2: of looking at this to see who it is that
Speaker 2: could have been maneuvering him, to see who it is
Speaker 2: had access to him.
Speaker 3: I mean, you're doing it too.
Speaker 2: But it's really interesting, and I think that's that's going
Speaker 2: to be a key thing to show people because this.
Speaker 3: Is how we've been able to access it over all
Speaker 3: these years.
Speaker 2: How did they use this guy as a character who
Speaker 2: would have been responsible for handling the programs and sort
Speaker 2: of you know, moving him across the board that you know,
Speaker 2: the game board, if you will, you know, as a pawn,
Speaker 2: as a patsy.
Speaker 3: So this is all rather.
Speaker 2: Fascinating and it's something that is worthy of reverse engineering
Speaker 2: in my mind. And we need to understand this because
Speaker 2: I think it reveals formulas and one could say that
Speaker 2: we could see the nuts and bolts of this, we
Speaker 2: might understand how propaganda efforts and other let's call them
Speaker 2: historical legends were built afterwards and previous to Oswald, you know,
Speaker 2: sixty three. Given the landscape of the time, given who
Speaker 2: was in charge of what at the time, et cetera,
Speaker 2: where their focuses were, where their assets were available, what
Speaker 2: was being funded, all of this stuff is relevant. It's
Speaker 2: a bit complex, but it's all relevant. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: think this is really excellent. I'm looking forward to seeing
Speaker 2: this as well. Are you guys going to take up
Speaker 2: the whole hour you think with it? Or I know
Speaker 2: you got more than an hour's worth of material to go, we.
Speaker 7: Will take we will take up the whole time with this.
Speaker 7: We're really because one of the reasons we take up
Speaker 7: the whole time, as you said, it is complex, but
Speaker 7: also there's a timing element to it, and as we've
Speaker 7: talked about in the past, there's always the devil is
Speaker 7: in the details, and it's one thing to be able
Speaker 7: to identify who knew what, who was doing what project,
Speaker 7: But then the timing comes into play. When did they
Speaker 7: know it, When did they know it when they could
Speaker 7: when could they have started to do something about it?
Speaker 7: And for example, we know that the DRE began a
Speaker 7: propaganda program against Oswald that the CIA shut down.
Speaker 1: Why would that happen?
Speaker 7: Why wouldn't the CIA very successful everything you just described
Speaker 7: in New Orleans, the dra took, they took to Miami,
Speaker 7: they started writing congress persons, they started putting out flyers,
Speaker 7: and suddenly the CIA shut them down. Why would That's
Speaker 7: not standard practice when you're paying the DRE to do propaganda.
Speaker 7: Then what we find out is, at the same time
Speaker 7: they shut him down, a fellow in Special Fair staff
Speaker 7: in Miami was Propaganda Operations begins his own program, taking
Speaker 7: the information from New Orleans, taking the knowledge of Oswald,
Speaker 7: and starting a new program that we literally know nothing
Speaker 7: about other than the kickoff. So the timing for a
Speaker 7: lot of this stuff appears to be questioned, but appears
Speaker 7: to be useful. And looking at what happened, and Chuck,
Speaker 7: I have to.
Speaker 1: Ask you, it looks like we might just have lost
Speaker 1: the feed.
Speaker 2: No, no, we're okay, we just lost Johnny again. He
Speaker 2: had to hang up.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's what it was. He disappeared and I disappeared.
Speaker 1: But I'm still here. Okay, got it, Yes you are.
Speaker 3: Chronology it will.
Speaker 7: Take a full hour because we have to talk about
Speaker 7: not only people and people in what position, but people
Speaker 7: who knew what When we have to talk about anomalies,
Speaker 7: and this is really only half of what we're doing.
Speaker 7: So this all relates to what the CIA was doing
Speaker 7: and speculation about the CIA's operational use of Lee Harvey Oswald,
Speaker 7: what they had in progress, and what would have been
Speaker 7: hugely embarrassing on November twenty second, people that talk about
Speaker 7: a poison peel in Mexico City, that's only a minor part.
Speaker 1: Of the story.
Speaker 7: The speculation we're presenting is that there was a full
Speaker 7: fledged propaganda program ready to go overseas, not inside the US,
Speaker 7: but overseas to support this new m world operation. Totally black,
Speaker 7: totally deniable, just about ready to release, and then Oswald
Speaker 7: comes up as a long cooman in Dallas and everybody's
Speaker 7: reputation is at risk. We're looking at the other angle too,
Speaker 7: but that will come out next year. We're looking at
Speaker 7: given what I just described, who knew what.
Speaker 1: About Oswald?
Speaker 5: When?
Speaker 7: How would this tag into the actual conspiracy because that
Speaker 7: was just the first element what the CIA was doing
Speaker 7: or thinking about doing with Oswald. And then the conspiracy
Speaker 7: steps in and makes use of Oswald. Two different things,
Speaker 7: although they hinge around some of the same people in
Speaker 7: Miami it's a very black story.
Speaker 2: Right, because look, the assassination winds up tying to the
Speaker 2: Cuban operation, which was underway already.
Speaker 3: So what you've got to do.
Speaker 2: Is lay out what was going on at the time
Speaker 2: forget Oswald to start with, Okay, here's the way the
Speaker 2: landscape is, right, then you got to start laying in
Speaker 2: chronological order a bunch of things that were happening within
Speaker 2: the system, let's just say. And then you got to
Speaker 2: lay out the chronology of how it interacted with Oswald
Speaker 2: and start to make sense of it. Okay, what could
Speaker 2: we expect from this assuming then what do we see
Speaker 2: here that went the you.
Speaker 3: Know, sideways?
Speaker 2: What didn't function according to the way it should have
Speaker 2: and why is that significant? And did that start happening
Speaker 2: before the assassination or was it just a cya thing afterwards?
Speaker 2: These are all important questions to put these things in
Speaker 2: proper order. And I know this word comes up a
Speaker 2: lot with you and I, but in their proper context,
Speaker 2: you have to know what was happening, what usefulness this
Speaker 2: guy would have served theoretically, if you're just looking at
Speaker 2: the Cuban operation, put the assassination aside, right, because he
Speaker 2: could have without the assassination. Let's say theoretically he's still
Speaker 2: useful as an American propping up or propagandizing people in
Speaker 2: public regarding the Castro regime, defending Castro. Now, this could
Speaker 2: be all sorts of an intelligence operation to draw people out,
Speaker 2: to find out who's who, to see in a particular
Speaker 2: area where the concentration is, to test the local Cuban population,
Speaker 2: et cetera.
Speaker 3: These are all these.
Speaker 2: Are all general speculations on my part.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 2: I'm not revealing anything here. What I'm saying is that
Speaker 2: you got to put that in context. Now we put
Speaker 2: it in order. This is the way it went, this
Speaker 2: is the way it kind of should have went. And
Speaker 2: now the assassination comes up, what do we see before
Speaker 2: and after that? And if you can lay all this out,
Speaker 2: you get an idea of who had their hands in
Speaker 2: this operation one way or another. You have an idea
Speaker 2: of where the money came from, You have an idea
Speaker 2: of who else he interacted with.
Speaker 3: Right, So this lays out a.
Speaker 2: Lot of important facts about the alleged assassin.
Speaker 3: Am I right or wrong?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you're right.
Speaker 7: The real question is at what point do these things
Speaker 7: begin to run in parallel.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's assume there.
Speaker 7: Is a black propaganda operation going on by the CIA
Speaker 7: that's being prepared, and we see traces of that, and
Speaker 7: we'll talk about the traces that we see. The interesting
Speaker 7: act is we see now see so many documents and
Speaker 7: so much about the Cuba project in Miami, at Miami Station,
Speaker 7: but it's all on the military and paramilitary side. We
Speaker 7: see nothing about this operation that we now know is
Speaker 7: going on because the head of it asked the FBI
Speaker 7: to provide information from the FPCC. They wanted documents, they
Speaker 7: wanted letters, they wanted you know, we need information from
Speaker 7: the Fair Play for Cuba Committee because we're going to
Speaker 7: twist it and we're going to fake it, and we're
Speaker 7: going to revert you reverse it. We're going to take
Speaker 7: it overseas and make them look really, really dangerous. We
Speaker 7: know that was the goal of the operation. We know
Speaker 7: they contacted the FBI and among the information sent to
Speaker 7: them was coming from the guy that had been writing
Speaker 7: letters to Oswald and responding to Oswell's letters. So the key,
Speaker 7: the key to all of this is to try to
Speaker 7: put that in parallel as you describe and see at
Speaker 7: the point in which they diverge. When do the people
Speaker 7: in Miami who are running what is probably a sanctioned
Speaker 7: perfectly you know dark you know, probably end project. When
Speaker 7: do they get had? Basically, when does somebody steal Oswald.
Speaker 1: And begin to manipulate him to make him.
Speaker 7: Something more than just a propaganda tool, but an actually
Speaker 7: patsy in the assassination. That also gives us a clue
Speaker 7: as to when the actual plans for the assassination began
Speaker 7: to gel.
Speaker 1: And that's very important, very much so.
Speaker 2: So Look, with the last ten minutes or so that
Speaker 2: I have reserved with you, I want to let you
Speaker 2: know that there's going to be a chat room. And
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've gotten the information yet, but
Speaker 2: I'm sure you will because I spoke to Gabby the
Speaker 2: other night about this. We're going to have a chat
Speaker 2: room that people will be able to go into during
Speaker 2: the live conference from the twenty first to the twenty third,
Speaker 2: And this way you'll be able to interact with people
Speaker 2: and you won't need Facebook because you've been I still
Speaker 2: can't believe I'm saying this. Larry Hancock is like banned
Speaker 2: on Facebook.
Speaker 3: I don't know why.
Speaker 2: Okay, but anyway, we're gonna have a chat tangle room
Speaker 2: that people will be able to visit and you'll be
Speaker 2: able to sign into Larry. You should be given administrative
Speaker 2: access to it all and all that so that during
Speaker 2: the conference live they'll be able to interact with you
Speaker 2: and also with us there on the ground. We should
Speaker 2: all be able to get into this chat room during
Speaker 2: that weekend, the twenty first to the twenty third, which
Speaker 2: is when the Lancer Conference is in person. But we
Speaker 2: also have a planned extra day of virtual stuff which
Speaker 2: might occur on Monday. My understanding is that'll be the
Speaker 2: extra day on Monday for people that go to Assassination
Speaker 2: Conference dot com and sign up and get your tickets.
Speaker 2: And oh, by the way, you can get ten percent
Speaker 2: off with the code Ocelly ten. The coupon code is Ocelli,
Speaker 2: which is my name and one zero ten as in
Speaker 2: you get ten percent off. But so you're going to
Speaker 2: have a live chat room, are you still willing to
Speaker 2: do the live chat with us that weekend or.
Speaker 3: Are you going to have time? What's going on there now?
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 7: Gabrielle mentioned that last night when David and I did
Speaker 7: our recording for the conference of our presentation.
Speaker 1: She said, you you would.
Speaker 7: Educate me on how to get into it, and I said,
Speaker 7: that's great.
Speaker 1: I'm more than happy to do that. It gives me
Speaker 1: a view into the conference. Let's you know, let' let
Speaker 1: me talk with people and possibly because I've.
Speaker 7: Been at this so long and have heard so much,
Speaker 7: at least some of it I remember, and you know,
Speaker 7: on many many topics can share with people that are
Speaker 7: interested after moderating, like fifteen conferences or so, there's a
Speaker 7: lot of history there.
Speaker 1: If I can just recall it, I'm.
Speaker 3: Sure you'll do fine.
Speaker 2: We got Joe BURRELLI coming up in about ten minutes,
Speaker 2: but before we get there, because you to be online
Speaker 2: on the jitsu thing, which by the way, Joe, I
Speaker 2: don't need your camera.
Speaker 3: If you want to kill that, that's fine.
Speaker 2: We can just have the audio feed and just hang
Speaker 2: out while I'm still finishing up with Larry here. But no,
Speaker 2: I look forward to that and I want to be
Speaker 2: able to use it on the ground. Now I'm going
Speaker 2: to be busy, busy running around and introducing people, and
Speaker 2: allegedly I'll be part of one panel anyway, so we'll
Speaker 2: see what happens. Plus I'm giving a presentation. So I
Speaker 2: don't know how much I'll be in the chat room.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be depending on you, Larry.
Speaker 3: So and that that'll be again available.
Speaker 5: That I should be able.
Speaker 1: To be I should be able to be there all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 7: And you know, if I see something separate, I'll let
Speaker 7: you Gabrielle and know by email or something like that.
Speaker 7: If I you know, if the feed goes off or
Speaker 7: something happens.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, I plan. I definitely plan to.
Speaker 7: Be hanging out almost all of the conference, just as
Speaker 7: if I had been there in person.
Speaker 1: We'll just consider this the hallway.
Speaker 2: Well, if we have reception on the cell phones, do
Speaker 2: me a favor, just call Gabby or call Can and
Speaker 2: tell them to directly because I don't carry a cel phone. Okay,
Speaker 2: but just call him and tell us any proproblems, because
Speaker 2: you're going to be like our lifeline to the online people.
Speaker 2: And you've served in that role for the past couple
Speaker 2: of years. And you know, the last time I think
Speaker 2: you were there was geez, what maybe twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: Three years?
Speaker 7: Well, I think about maybe it's been three years since
Speaker 7: I've been there.
Speaker 3: Oh, you were there for maybe sixty of.
Speaker 1: It maybe, So maybe this four years ago.
Speaker 3: Yes, you were there for the sixtieth.
Speaker 5: It was on the sixtieth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you were there for the sixtieth anniversary in twenty three.
Speaker 2: That's right now, my memories got it.
Speaker 4: I just wanted to butt in Larry and say hi
Speaker 4: because I love you, and Hi, Joe, how are you, sir?
Speaker 4: And Larry was like, you know, he was like the
Speaker 4: president walking around at the sixtieth and he was gracious.
Speaker 5: Enough to.
Speaker 8: Give me an hour or on Sunday morning to review
Speaker 8: some of the documents and presentation we had found on
Speaker 8: James Verbartin and just someone that's so great with us
Speaker 8: time and I consider a mentor.
Speaker 5: So I'll let you guys finish off.
Speaker 8: I just want to say hi, Larry, and whenever you're done,
Speaker 8: I'll kick in or I'll just hang out.
Speaker 7: If I had just been able to keep that security detail,
Speaker 7: maybe I would have been on Facebook now, but you know,
Speaker 7: things happen.
Speaker 3: I really cannot.
Speaker 2: I'm still dumbfounded by the fact that your banned on Facebook.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's right, you were there in twenty three.
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, you gave me something that
Speaker 2: I treasure that's on the top of my bookcase behind me.
Speaker 3: That year, and I appreciate that as well.
Speaker 2: But look, also, Larry is on my show all the time,
Speaker 2: and I tell you guys, go to larrydshancock dot com
Speaker 2: follow his blog because it's more informative than people's whole
Speaker 2: web sites, and it's just the stuff he thinks about
Speaker 2: blogging about. On top of the fact that I recommend
Speaker 2: all of his books, they're all on my shelf behind me,
Speaker 2: which is not just JFK stuff, by the way, might
Speaker 2: include some things that revolve around the case, like I
Speaker 2: don't know, Nexus, Surprise.
Speaker 3: Attack, Shadow Warfare. Geez.
Speaker 2: These titles sound like they might be something that might
Speaker 2: have something to do with the Kennedy assassination, but they're
Speaker 2: not focused on it. But of course I highly recommend
Speaker 2: someone would have talked tipping point, you know. Please the
Speaker 2: Oswald puzzle right now is the best thing to get.
Speaker 3: And do we have.
Speaker 2: Any announcements about anything coming up, Larry? Are we waiting
Speaker 2: on that what's going on there?
Speaker 5: No, we do.
Speaker 7: We do hope to have what David and I are
Speaker 7: working on now in print in some fashion next year,
Speaker 7: so it will become available.
Speaker 1: I don't have any time on that.
Speaker 7: Yet, but we've we've completed our initial work on those
Speaker 7: those two areas.
Speaker 1: You know, who knew what at.
Speaker 7: The CIA and what does that mean for operational interest
Speaker 7: in Oswald? And where's the crossover to the conspiracy and
Speaker 7: how did that work?
Speaker 1: How did they take over Oswald?
Speaker 7: How did they essentially take Oswald out from under you know,
Speaker 7: the CIA propaganda element and and began to set them
Speaker 7: up when So we finished all of that, it's written up,
Speaker 7: it's even edited, and I just don't have a specific
Speaker 7: data as to how it's actually.
Speaker 1: Hell when.
Speaker 7: It will be available next year, but that will happen
Speaker 7: and right, and I'll publisher now for another book on UFOs.
Speaker 1: So who knows.
Speaker 7: I'm not sure I would live through it, but I
Speaker 7: went off the deep end and proposed it.
Speaker 2: Here we go, Okay, so it just as a quick thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there will be in adendum to the Oswalt puzzle, and
Speaker 2: we'll keep you informed on this show as to when
Speaker 2: exactly it drops, and I will let you guys know
Speaker 2: right away how you can get it and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, hey, look, if you get really
Speaker 2: worn out on the JFK topic, indeed we can go
Speaker 2: into UAP.
Speaker 3: They call it now.
Speaker 2: We could talk about those disclosures and the work of
Speaker 2: the you know, current Congress if they ever get back
Speaker 2: in session, I guess, you know, and see if we
Speaker 2: get any more disclosures, there any new data. You know,
Speaker 2: It's funny, Larry, I see a couple of pronouncements from
Speaker 2: mainstream media that sound like they're starting to come in
Speaker 2: line with that group that you know, didn't exactly grab
Speaker 2: the headlines the same as the guy who said we
Speaker 2: have alien technology and aliens in our possession. But you know,
Speaker 2: it seems as though that is having an influence that
Speaker 2: group you're working with. And of course we've happily promoted
Speaker 2: that and the book on Identified, which is again another
Speaker 2: great work by Larry Hancock, but that definitely doesn't revolve
Speaker 2: around the JFK assassination. That's more about what they used
Speaker 2: to call UFOs and currently call UAP and the UAP
Speaker 2: what has it done. I saw recent discussions actually about ges.
Speaker 2: You know, we see that there are actual patterns related
Speaker 2: to the interest of these vehicles, etc. That are surrounding
Speaker 2: our nuclear facilities or at least were it seems as
Speaker 2: though that's not currently what their focus is. And yet
Speaker 2: we're still seeing them and they do exist, etc. And
Speaker 2: guess what, a whole lot of academic data was put
Speaker 2: together by a team Larry, not all by himself, but
Speaker 2: as part of a team that did all that work.
Speaker 2: What is the name of that organization again, the USC
Speaker 2: I think it is something like that.
Speaker 7: And yeah, Scientific Coalition for Anomalous Phenomena, right, which is
Speaker 7: basically it's SCU Study of Phenomenous funnel, which which honestly
Speaker 7: I dislike because I think UFO was very straightforward. But
Speaker 7: when the new government committee decided to study it again,
Speaker 7: they made it anomalous phenomena, which, you know, phenomena could
Speaker 7: be lots of things, so we took it away from
Speaker 7: being something pretty physical and pretty obvious and made it
Speaker 7: mysterious again, which I think was going in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2: Well, not only could phenomena be a bunch of different things,
Speaker 2: but so could anomalous. But okay, fine, government speak, what
Speaker 2: are you going to do? But we got to give
Speaker 2: them the keywords and phrases and acronyms to go search
Speaker 2: for because I want them to find your work, and
Speaker 2: we will put links in the show notes. But if
Speaker 2: you go over to Larry's blog, and just roll it
Speaker 2: back a little bit. You can easily see the work
Speaker 2: that Larry's doing on that as well, So not only
Speaker 2: j Kay and moderating a chat room for us and
Speaker 2: everything else. Maybe you're not traveling, but you're still doing
Speaker 2: a whole lot of work.
Speaker 3: And I know you.
Speaker 2: Dread volunteering for another book because it's so funny I've seen, Larry. Now, well,
Speaker 2: I've got an article. Okay, so I've got a monograph. Okay,
Speaker 2: maybe I have a book. Every time he dives into something,
Speaker 2: it seems, I mean not every time, but it seems
Speaker 2: to have happened I don't know, good three, four or
Speaker 2: five times since I've known you, Larry.
Speaker 3: Is that a pattern or what it seem?
Speaker 7: It does seem to work that way, and I've decided
Speaker 7: that it's a good thing. I didn't set out to
Speaker 7: make a career as a short story writer.
Speaker 1: They just would not have worked out.
Speaker 8: Yes, now it is a novel and a masterpiece. We
Speaker 8: could blame everything on Rex, right, Larry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that will do for the moment, without a doubt.
Speaker 3: Well, at the end of the day, yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1: There will be there will be more. At this point,
Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 7: The Oversight Committee in Congress is looking at four different
Speaker 7: subjects right, three assassinations and UFOs, and I've provided material
Speaker 7: that's working with the committee on all four areas. Beginning
Speaker 7: to lose track of who I tell what about which?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Larry, at this point, the only thing
Speaker 2: you're not working on is the Epstein files.
Speaker 3: But stay tuned, folks. You never Yeah, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to push you into anything.
Speaker 1: If I were twenty years younger, i'd go for it.
Speaker 2: There you have it, So Larry, I appreciate you taking
Speaker 2: the time. I know we're at the end of your
Speaker 2: time here that I arranged with you, and I appreciate
Speaker 2: that as well as the fact that you're with me
Speaker 2: every two weeks or so. I'm not sure when we're
Speaker 2: going to come back to this because obviously we're not
Speaker 2: going to be able to get to anything, you know,
Speaker 2: the week of the conference, so I'll probably talk to you,
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe around Thanksgiving or maybe the week after,
Speaker 2: and we'll get back together and you know, maybe do
Speaker 2: a post mortem on the conference or something like that
Speaker 2: if that suits you, and if not, we'll talk about
Speaker 2: your next project. Or your current project or whichever article
Speaker 2: is about to you know, you know, germinate into a book.
Speaker 2: We shall see, right, But in the meantime, Larry, I
Speaker 2: really appreciate it, and everybody go to Larrydashhancock dot com.
Speaker 2: That again is where you can keep up with well.
Speaker 2: I'll give you the links in the show notes because
Speaker 2: most of you are going to catch the podcast. So
Speaker 2: the thing is, go in the show notes and take
Speaker 2: a look under Larry Hancock. You'll find a link to
Speaker 2: his blog, a way to find his books, and usually
Speaker 2: I'll put something there. Likely it'll be the Oswalt Puzzle,
Speaker 2: a direct link, because if you don't have it already,
Speaker 2: you need to get it, and you're gonna want to
Speaker 2: follow up when these guys add to it as well,
Speaker 2: because his co author David Boylan and himself will be
Speaker 2: presenting at the Lancer conference, as I said before the
Speaker 2: twenty first to the twenty third of November.
Speaker 3: So thank you.
Speaker 7: Larry, oh, thanks Chuck. I appreciate It's good to see
Speaker 7: Joe again, and I'll probably drop off, but I'll be
Speaker 7: connecting with everybody remotely during the conference, so everybody safe
Speaker 7: travels and we'll we'll get together with you all again
Speaker 7: electronically then exactly, thank.
Speaker 5: You, Larry.
Speaker 8: I joined a few minutes early just to say hi
Speaker 8: to you and crash your last couple of minutes, so
Speaker 8: your segonment. But I do have unidentified one and a
Speaker 8: half feet behind me, and I'm all right my dad
Speaker 8: recently surprise attack, so because highly of it. So and
Speaker 8: if you don't have the Oswalt puzzle, what the hell
Speaker 8: are you doing? And I think we're going to talk
Speaker 8: in about a month on our thing, this thing, all right.
Speaker 7: I'll joining you to take a look at that and
Speaker 7: just make a note. David and I need to talk
Speaker 7: more about Tony Verona, but that's another story by Chuck.
Speaker 1: We'll see you in Dallas one way of the.
Speaker 2: There you go, I'll see, I'll see in the movies.
Speaker 2: Everybody stick around. We're gonna take a quick break here
Speaker 2: and when we come.
Speaker 3: Back, we'll have Joe BURRELLI with us and uh pitch.
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