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<v Speaker 1>By Billy Cunningham the Great America. Once again, there's lots

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<v Speaker 1>of doings in Columbus. Many times we in Cincinnati think

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<v Speaker 1>Columbus is not part of our state, and many times

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<v Speaker 1>people in Comings didn't think they're not part of Kentucky.

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<v Speaker 1>But nonetheless, everything happening in Columbus is extremely germane to

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<v Speaker 1>what's happening in Cincinnati. Going on. You and I now

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<v Speaker 1>is the Speaker of the House, the Honorable Matt Huffman,

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<v Speaker 1>who has more controlled than Columbus and maybe even the governor,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe more than Justice. Show leaders and Speaker Matt Huffman,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show. And first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>can we deal with the funding of the stadium issue?

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<v Speaker 1>The lawmakers, you're only in charge of the House. The

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<v Speaker 1>Senate has had different ideas about using unclaimed funds or bonds.

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<v Speaker 1>As we sit here this Monday afternoon, what's the status

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<v Speaker 1>of funding the Bengals and the Browns, etc.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, the Senate came up with a different way

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<v Speaker 2>of doing that than the Governor. Of course, wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>raise the tax on a few things. In order to

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<v Speaker 2>get there, we wanted to use your traditional way, which

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<v Speaker 2>was bonds which we be in the House, which we

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<v Speaker 2>could prove would be paid back plus over a billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollars to the state, the state essentially acting as the

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<v Speaker 2>bank and using our triple A credit rating higher than

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<v Speaker 2>the United States government. By the way, the Senates there

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<v Speaker 2>is about four billion dollars sitting in the unclaimed funds

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<v Speaker 2>that's been accumulating since about nineteen oh nine. There have

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<v Speaker 2>been attempts or questions about doing something similar to this

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<v Speaker 2>for other things, but essentially the Senate's idea is to

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<v Speaker 2>take declare a statute of limitations of ten years, set

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<v Speaker 2>that money aside, and make it available for not just

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<v Speaker 2>sports stadiums, but other cultural construction. I think there are

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<v Speaker 2>there's a few problems with that. I think that needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be defined better. I do think that we need

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<v Speaker 2>to say, look, if the state's going to put this

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<v Speaker 2>money in, there needs to be a return on the dollar.

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<v Speaker 2>That's again why I argue the Houses plan, where we

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<v Speaker 2>know that the state is getting its money back plus

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<v Speaker 2>a billion dollars, but we don't know that, and so

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<v Speaker 2>there definitely needs to be some work on the language

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<v Speaker 2>and the kinds of facilities that this can be used,

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<v Speaker 2>because lots of folks say we love the Cincinnati Bengals,

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<v Speaker 2>but I love the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra a lot more

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<v Speaker 2>or and there may be other building facilities. The other

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<v Speaker 2>thing we need to keep in mind here is we

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<v Speaker 2>do a capital budget every two years, and a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of these things are funded, certainly not to the extent

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<v Speaker 2>that we're talking about with the kinds of dollars. So

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to work with the Senate and see what

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<v Speaker 2>we can get done.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, you were a President of the Senate before

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<v Speaker 1>your Speaker of the House, so you're saying that the

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<v Speaker 1>idea of unclaimed funds is like a horse race, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're in the first position at this point, and not

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<v Speaker 1>raising taxes otherwise, even though that's monies of the American people.

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<v Speaker 1>I think probably most of us unwittingly have money in

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<v Speaker 1>that fund without knowing about it. But nonetheless, is the

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<v Speaker 1>unclaimed funds kind of in the lead at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I try to tell my House members,

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<v Speaker 2>because the Senate puts their version of the budget out,

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't mean now that's where we're at, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>the document we're working from. And being in both of

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<v Speaker 2>those positions, you're in advantage when you're in the Senate

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<v Speaker 2>because you got four months to work on the governor's

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<v Speaker 2>budget instead of only two months, which is much what

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<v Speaker 2>the House has. I think that, you know, the other

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<v Speaker 2>part is that folks have had a couple of months

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<v Speaker 2>to hack around on the idea of the bond and

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<v Speaker 2>all of that. And you know, even though we issue

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<v Speaker 2>we just did in our transportation budget six hundred million

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<v Speaker 2>dollars worth of bonds for the Brent Spence Bridge, and

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<v Speaker 2>we're doing this three or four billion dollars every two years.

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<v Speaker 2>Bond's kind of got a bad name in the last

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<v Speaker 2>couple of months. It is easy to argue I think that, well,

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<v Speaker 2>these are unclaimed funds. We're not raising taxes, we're not

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<v Speaker 2>loaning money hoping to get paid back. But it's still

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<v Speaker 2>money that belongs to the state government. So I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think we can be cavalier about it. And the other

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<v Speaker 2>part is, well, who's going to get this money? Because

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<v Speaker 2>if there aren't real parameters on it, this one point

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<v Speaker 2>seven billion dollars is going to go out the door

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<v Speaker 2>pretty quickly, and that's what I'm concerned about. I think

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<v Speaker 2>that there needs to be a return on the dollar

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<v Speaker 2>and I you know, one of the popular things that

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<v Speaker 2>people like to say is well, I kind of say,

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<v Speaker 2>it never gets your money back with sports datium. Well

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<v Speaker 2>that's true in some cases, it's it's not true in others.

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<v Speaker 2>And what we need to say is, well, how much

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<v Speaker 2>money it is. How is that money going to come

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<v Speaker 2>back to the you know, to the taxpayers in the

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<v Speaker 2>state of Ohio. So I don't I don't think there's

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<v Speaker 2>anybody who's in the front. I do think that with

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<v Speaker 2>the exception of the other two branches, so to speak,

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<v Speaker 2>between this speaker and the two chambers, I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>the two chambers want to raise taxes. So it's those

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<v Speaker 2>are the two things we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>So that as the three percent or two percent tax

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<v Speaker 1>on gambling on internet gambling, is that off the board

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<v Speaker 1>at this point? That because that does raise in a

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<v Speaker 1>sense fees. I don't know if it's taxes because you

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<v Speaker 1>voluntarily agree to gamble or not. And so is the

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<v Speaker 1>three Is that is that over with?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Well people people say that too. It's like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we can raise the price or raise the

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<v Speaker 2>excise on gas and you can decide whether to buy

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<v Speaker 2>gas or not. Well, most people can't they got to

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<v Speaker 2>they got to drive for work or or some other reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>Same thing with tax on alcohol, cigarettes, things like that.

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<v Speaker 2>You all always have to look at the tax policy.

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<v Speaker 2>You raise the price on tobacco, people are going to

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<v Speaker 2>go to Kentucky and Cincinnati and bron tax isn't It's

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<v Speaker 2>the same thing with taxes on gambling. I will tell

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<v Speaker 2>you that the sixty five member House Republican Caucus is

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<v Speaker 2>not interested in raising taxes, and so that we just

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<v Speaker 2>we're not going to go for the governor's proposal. He

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<v Speaker 2>and I've had a few set down meetings about that,

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<v Speaker 2>and we also think that it won't raise the tax

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<v Speaker 2>because the people will always avoid paying attacks when they can.

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<v Speaker 2>And uh, you know all those folks who for years

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<v Speaker 2>went over to Indiana and bought their liquor there and

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<v Speaker 2>brought it back to their lake house and Ohio, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>at least in western Ohio, go to Grand Lake Saint

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<v Speaker 2>Mary's and see how many Ohio there are in a

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<v Speaker 2>guy's bourbon bottle there. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm kind of told by those in Columbus that

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<v Speaker 1>you're the man. And if the man is saying no

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<v Speaker 1>tax on the gambling, the brown the Browns bond issue

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<v Speaker 1>is not good. I hear the man saying, okay, the

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<v Speaker 1>unplayed funds with the statu of limitations is the least

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<v Speaker 1>painful way. Am I right or wrong about that?

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's a fair way to look at. Let me,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, just dissuade you. If there is somebody

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<v Speaker 2>who quote unquote is the man, and it's always the

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<v Speaker 2>governor of the state of Ohio. But the important part

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<v Speaker 2>about our constitutional republic is that whoever the man is

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't have complete control over what happens. Especially when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to raising taxes. You've got to have both houses

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<v Speaker 2>sign off. And even though it's controlled by Republicans, not

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<v Speaker 2>all those people think the same thing. And through my

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<v Speaker 2>caucus we've got a different different sets of opinions about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I got to say this, Ohio is one

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<v Speaker 2>of the highest taxed states in the country. It is

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<v Speaker 2>the highest tax state in the country that is controlled

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<v Speaker 2>by a Republican government, by both chambers and government. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not a question of whether we have enough money, it's

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<v Speaker 2>how we're spending it, making sure that there's an appropriate

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<v Speaker 2>regular flow that to pay for ongoing services. And I'll

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<v Speaker 2>say one more thing, bill in case you want to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about real estate tax and becoming potential initiative of

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<v Speaker 2>Ohio has over six thousand local taxing districts, more than

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<v Speaker 2>any other state in the Union, more than very liberal California,

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<v Speaker 2>which by the way, is four times bigger than us

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<v Speaker 2>population wise, So there isn't And we have ten billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollars in our any Day Fund, which is good because

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<v Speaker 2>it'll rain someday. But we also have three or four

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<v Speaker 2>billion dollars that, as we say, is slashing around in

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<v Speaker 2>checking accounts, which means it doesn't get spent by agencies.

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<v Speaker 2>It's reappropriated two years later. And so it's all of

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<v Speaker 2>that money that you know, when we go to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about black taxes for income tax, those things are all there.

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<v Speaker 2>I do think, you know, the way you put it,

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<v Speaker 2>this unclaim funds thing is the least painful way because

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<v Speaker 2>we're not raising taxes. But don't I think we have

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<v Speaker 2>to have the appropriate parameters on there. So it's not

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<v Speaker 2>just well, you know, these guys want this and those

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<v Speaker 2>guys want that. I mean, I think we have to

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<v Speaker 2>show an investment of turn those kinds of things before

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<v Speaker 2>the dollars go out. So but this this local Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>we have a lot of local governments and people like that.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, people like to have you know, a start

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<v Speaker 2>name in Cincinnati villages. And you know the folks in

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<v Speaker 2>Chevy that love having their own government, right than folks

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<v Speaker 2>and Anderson and all that kind stuff. They don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to have one city in Hamilton County, right, No, But

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<v Speaker 2>that all costs money.

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<v Speaker 1>So let me ask you this question. I saw an article,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe it was in the Dispatch, that if you give

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<v Speaker 1>us an opportunity to eliminate real estate taxes, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to do it. And then I read the flip side

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<v Speaker 1>of that. Sounds a great idea, get rid of all

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<v Speaker 1>taxes and just live out of the ether. But I'm

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<v Speaker 1>told that if we vote on this thing, it's likely

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<v Speaker 1>to pass unless the electorate is informed. Assuming all the

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<v Speaker 1>real estate taxes in the state of Ohio go away,

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<v Speaker 1>where does the money come from to run schools and

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<v Speaker 1>police and fire locally? Where does up money come from?

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<v Speaker 1>If we voted down, which is I think is likely,

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to be no more real estate taxes. Even

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<v Speaker 1>rich people like Rocky Boyman. Tell me, give me a

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<v Speaker 1>chance to get rid of real estate taxes, I'll do it.

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<v Speaker 1>But the problem is, Okay, how do you fund your schools,

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<v Speaker 1>which is in crisis anyway. So, assuming the real estate

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<v Speaker 1>thing is on the ballot in November or next May,

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<v Speaker 1>and assuming it passes, how much of a financial crisis

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<v Speaker 1>crisis would that be for schools, police, and fire.

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<v Speaker 2>Well it's extraordinary, I guess that's the headline. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to affect people and entities in different ways. Municipal

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<v Speaker 2>corporation cities and villages not as much because they have

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<v Speaker 2>a municipal income tax. They only get a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of the real estate tax. Schools are going to be

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<v Speaker 2>tremendously affected. Will have to restructure how local government works

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<v Speaker 2>in state of Ohio, and people will say, well, we

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<v Speaker 2>can't possibly do that. You remember, in Florida, which is

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<v Speaker 2>fifty percent bigger than us, they only have sixty six

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<v Speaker 2>school districts one county. We have over six hundred. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>having fewer school districts doesn't mean you have to have

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<v Speaker 2>fewer high schools and all of that. But again it's

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<v Speaker 2>a we're Ohioans and we don't like the people live

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<v Speaker 2>over the ridge telling us what to do, and we

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<v Speaker 2>even like to argue with whoever. Let's start down right right.

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<v Speaker 2>But I don't see that elimination of real estate tax

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<v Speaker 2>will cause the state government to say, Okay, well we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to raise the income tax and we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>raise the sales tax to make up for all of

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<v Speaker 2>those taxes. It's you know, there will be a massive

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<v Speaker 2>restruction and bill. That's why we're trying to do some

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<v Speaker 2>of the things that we're doing right now. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>in Hamilton County they are the example of what I

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<v Speaker 2>think a local library district should be. There's one in

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<v Speaker 2>the whole county. Well, in Ashtabula County they have nine

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<v Speaker 2>local library districts. One of the districts up in Summit

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<v Speaker 2>County they only have five hundred people who live there

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<v Speaker 2>because they all want to run their own library. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>all of that means you got an administrator and all

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<v Speaker 2>the employees and all of those kinds of things. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you want to have all that level of local control,

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<v Speaker 2>you have to pay for it. So we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>do some things the House is working on and to

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<v Speaker 2>do something, as we say, big and bold regarding property tax.

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<v Speaker 2>And we did that in our budget with the stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that we did with the schools. So we need to

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<v Speaker 2>do something to control this, to look at these folks

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<v Speaker 2>who want to put this on it, to look at

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<v Speaker 2>Rocky Boyman or whoever it is, and say, look, we

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<v Speaker 2>changed a lot of this in the budget in June,

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<v Speaker 2>so take a look at that before. And because if

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<v Speaker 2>we don't, if we simply Thummer knows that the public

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<v Speaker 2>can say we're public schools and you know we don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to we don't want to do that, well it's

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<v Speaker 2>heading for catastrophe, no question.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you either pay sales tax, income tax, or real

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<v Speaker 1>estate tax, and real estate tax is completely dominated in

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<v Speaker 1>Hamilton County. You may be aware of this. We have

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<v Speaker 1>like twelve special levies that we'll always vote yes on,

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<v Speaker 1>the Zoo, Senior Citizens, Disabled, whoever it is, which is

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<v Speaker 1>now growing in library. And if that all goes away,

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<v Speaker 1>that means the funding for all those organizations go away.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of rich guys who have little or no

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<v Speaker 1>income because they live on dividends, etc. Have big mansions.

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<v Speaker 1>They are going to pay no tax and then they

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<v Speaker 1>can go to buy their sales taxes through the internet

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<v Speaker 1>and pay no sales tax. And the people have got

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<v Speaker 1>to be informed. And you know, Speaker Huffman, we get

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<v Speaker 1>the government. We deserve. And if we vote to eliminate

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<v Speaker 1>real estate taxes for you, that will be a crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>Am I right, it will be. But here's a little

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<v Speaker 2>I guess anecdote. And you know, and I think your

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<v Speaker 2>listeners know, I've been a school choice guy since they

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<v Speaker 2>started in the legislature seventeen years ago. I've been punted

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<v Speaker 2>around pretty good by the public school lobby. They sued me,

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<v Speaker 2>They had a process, server sued me, served me personally

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<v Speaker 2>in the Senate President's office. I think, in an attempt

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<v Speaker 2>to intimidate me. You know that that's not good usual practice,

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<v Speaker 2>even though you can do it as a lawyer. You

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<v Speaker 2>know what they were trying to do there. And so

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<v Speaker 2>we we put in the House's budget this thirty percent AREO.

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<v Speaker 2>You can carry over thirty percent of your funds, but

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<v Speaker 2>the rest is going to immediate property reduction in January

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<v Speaker 2>of twenty six. And of course, at the time, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>this was two months ago, that was you know, here's

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<v Speaker 2>Howfman again. He hates children and I like, but of

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<v Speaker 2>course I don't. I have several of my own eleven grandchildren.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyway, within the past month or so, I've had

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<v Speaker 2>my localcho some of my local superintendents show up at

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<v Speaker 2>my law office here in Lima, and you know, they're

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<v Speaker 2>suggesting that we have to have maybe restrictions according to inflation.

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<v Speaker 2>They see some other things that maybe we should get

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<v Speaker 2>rid of, emergency level me and so they see what

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<v Speaker 2>I've been trying to talk about for the last five

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<v Speaker 2>years is you can't just keep raising taxes and expect

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<v Speaker 2>the public to take it. And so we have at

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<v Speaker 2>least some reasonable people within the public school sector who

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<v Speaker 2>are talking about that. It's and it's I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>because of this thing is laying out there, and also

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<v Speaker 2>because of the valuations. We have many school districts sitting

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<v Speaker 2>on one hundred, one hundred and fifty or two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>percent of their of their operating expenses, which in some

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<v Speaker 2>cases that's not much money. If you're at a small

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<v Speaker 2>rural school district in western Ohio, it's not a lot

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily a lot of cash. But you know in City

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<v Speaker 2>of Columbus, which spent about eight hundred million dollars plus

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<v Speaker 2>in their school district, and they're not hesitant to spend

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<v Speaker 2>money on new employees and things like that. I could

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<v Speaker 2>give you a rundown on that, but they carried over

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<v Speaker 2>four hundred million dollars, almost fifty percent of their of

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<v Speaker 2>their operating and of course when we say why didn't

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<v Speaker 2>you give some tax relief to the people who are

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<v Speaker 2>paying that, Well, because it's our money. That's why one

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<v Speaker 2>of the superintendents testified. They said, well, we use the

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<v Speaker 2>carryover money and we made eight million dollars to investment income.

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<v Speaker 2>And she said that in a meeting and a committee meeting,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course one of the one of the state

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<v Speaker 2>reps said, well, don't you think it would be people

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<v Speaker 2>are paying those taxes would rather see that investment income

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<v Speaker 2>in their checkbook at your checkbook? Oh yeah, I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>think of it that way. Well, of course they would.

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<v Speaker 2>And so let's fund the schools, make sure that they

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<v Speaker 2>have the money that they need reasonably to run their operations,

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<v Speaker 2>do all of those things, but they don't have to

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<v Speaker 2>have money sitting in their checking account which could go

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<v Speaker 2>for property tax. Really, if that's why the House did

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<v Speaker 2>what they did. The Senate did a different version of it.

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<v Speaker 2>They said fifty percent set of thirty percent. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to try to work that out, but there needs to

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<v Speaker 2>be other local reform otherwise this thing is going to

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<v Speaker 2>gain legs and it will be a crew come to

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus meeting in January of twenty seven.

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<v Speaker 1>Matt Hoffman, thank you, you're about two weeks away. I

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<v Speaker 1>see the three percent tax on gambling that's gone. It

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<v Speaker 1>appears that the bonding of for Cleveland Browns that appears

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<v Speaker 1>not to be in a good shape. There's a big

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<v Speaker 1>article in the inquir this morning about Hamlet County given

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<v Speaker 1>the option by the Senate to levy cigarettes cigarette tax,

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<v Speaker 1>and you're telling me that you don't care much for

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<v Speaker 1>that one either. And it appears like the unclaimed funds

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<v Speaker 1>may be in the lead at this point, but you

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<v Speaker 1>got ten more days of tough negotiations. We'll see what happens.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you give me a thirty second answer on the

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<v Speaker 1>corners offices? Can you give it? Is it possible to

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<v Speaker 1>give me a thirty thirty second answer on the Hamlin

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<v Speaker 1>County corner? Last me some Marco and others. Well, is

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<v Speaker 1>that going to be kept? Or are you going to

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<v Speaker 1>eliminate corners offices and let the county commissioners.

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<v Speaker 2>Appoint Well, you know, as I'm this is part a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit part of a general discussion. Is when we

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<v Speaker 2>start talking about local government reform. The question is how

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<v Speaker 2>many elected officials do we need? And I understand and

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<v Speaker 2>you made a good argument. In fact, I met with

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<v Speaker 2>your coroner. She's outstanding, a very very impressive person, and

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<v Speaker 2>I would say that it's probably an issue that several

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<v Speaker 2>notches down in terms of House priorities. If this is

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<v Speaker 2>something that the Senate is going to insist on, we

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<v Speaker 2>probably will. But I would pose to Bill Cunningham, your listeners,

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<v Speaker 2>and everybody else where do we go to shrink local

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<v Speaker 2>government and therefore the cost to the taxpayer. Who's willing

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<v Speaker 2>to step up and say, well, you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know how many municipal corporations there in Hamilton County, but

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<v Speaker 2>how many do we need? And I'm sure the answer

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<v Speaker 2>from the least the city officials will be everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>Every thirty nine of them. We need thirty nine of them,

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<v Speaker 1>all of them, we need every one of them. Cut nothing,

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<v Speaker 1>increase everything, and that's that's why we're where we are. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>Speaker Huffam, we got to run, but thanks for coming on,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe when everything is finally concluded about two weeks,

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<v Speaker 1>will do it again. When it's done.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well thanks again, Bill, appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>Matt Huffman, thank you very much. Let's continue with more.

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<v Speaker 1>Matt Hoffman the Speaker of the House, he was President

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<v Speaker 1>of the Senate. Despite his Protestations and Columbus, he is

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<v Speaker 1>the man. Bill Cunningham News Radio seven hundred WLW