Speaker 1: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 1: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 1: written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker, DTK. Every
Speaker 1: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 1: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 1: host journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 2: Good Evening. Melinda Kola is very familiar with his Secret
Speaker 2: Santa and the many links that tie him to John
Speaker 2: Beney Ramsey. Each link is carefully explained within this book
Speaker 2: to lead from one connection to the next between John
Speaker 2: Beney and the Secret Santa. Follow the pieces of the
Speaker 2: puzzle to find out but who this secret Centa is
Speaker 2: and how this chameleon was able to evade the authorities.
Speaker 2: Included within as a pair of government generated documents for
Speaker 2: the same man under different aliases assume names. This alone
Speaker 2: should raise a red flag for authorities. The same individual
Speaker 2: also use a term of endearment common to the Ramsey
Speaker 2: family for John Benay in front of his peers and
Speaker 2: classmates at a karate school, when asked if he was
Speaker 2: related to that girl found in a basement, he responded with,
Speaker 2: I don't know, No Johnny B. No one knew this
Speaker 2: term of endearment until it was used in the book
Speaker 2: The Death of Innocence by John Ramsey. Planned murder indicates
Speaker 2: that the killer knew the victim's schedule. Overkill is usually
Speaker 2: a message intended for someone else other than the victim.
Speaker 2: Who was the overkill message intended for and why. DNA
Speaker 2: feenotyping can be used to help generate an image of
Speaker 2: the killer's face, which may match up with some of
Speaker 2: the images found within this book, raising some serious questions.
Speaker 2: The true name of the Secret Santa is listed on
Speaker 2: Detective Lou Smith's suspect list. There is a list of
Speaker 2: people to contact at the end of the book should
Speaker 2: you see this Secret Santa reports whereabouts to the proper authorities.
Speaker 2: Corruption and lack of cooperation on the part of the
Speaker 2: authorities have held back much of this information for far
Speaker 2: too long. That is why she has compiled the list
Speaker 2: of links to send out to the public so that
Speaker 2: they may decide for themselves. If the information found within
Speaker 2: warrant's interest and possibly and arrest. Perhaps together we can
Speaker 2: finally bring an end to this case and justice for
Speaker 2: John Benay Ramsey. The book that We're featuring this evening
Speaker 2: is Secret Santa, My Murderer, The True John Benay completed
Speaker 2: puzzle with my special guest, activists and author Melinda Coola.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the program, and thank you for this interview.
Speaker 2: Melinda Coola.
Speaker 3: Thank you Mistress Fansky for giving an ear and an
Speaker 3: audience to John Benay as well as other homicide victims.
Speaker 3: It's our job to tell the truth. I can tell
Speaker 3: you this is the line a leone than terrible tragedies.
Speaker 3: There's posters everywhere see it, say it. If you see
Speaker 3: something that's wrong, you suspect something, you're supposed to report it.
Speaker 3: If not, then you become culpable in the outcome of tragedies.
Speaker 3: I'm trying not to become culpable in the outcome of
Speaker 3: the tragedy of this child.
Speaker 2: Let's go to nineteen ninety six. Take us back for
Speaker 2: people to understand what John Benay had told four persons.
Speaker 2: Tell us what John Benay had said regarding Secret Santa.
Speaker 2: Tell us about these conversations before we talk about who
Speaker 2: you found out to be the Secret Santa.
Speaker 3: Children are never heard. Everyone wants them to go away.
Speaker 3: But John Beney quote a friend of hers and that
Speaker 3: information was just made available very recently. This friend announced
Speaker 3: that John Beney, when they were young, told her she
Speaker 3: was very excited Santa's coming again after Christmas. But the
Speaker 3: child said, well, Santo was here. You know, Santa's coming
Speaker 3: again after Christmas with a present, but it's a secret.
Speaker 3: It's a secret visit. This child just now recently, within
Speaker 3: the last couple of weeks, came forward with that information
Speaker 3: because now she's twenty six years older and she realized
Speaker 3: the importance of what John Beney told her dear friend
Speaker 3: when they were both six years old.
Speaker 2: You cite three other people that were also told about
Speaker 2: the secret Santa. What kinds of things specifically did John
Speaker 2: Benet say, and to who.
Speaker 3: The Santa at fleet White's party? That Santa was accustomed
Speaker 3: to being there for the fleet White family, so everyone
Speaker 3: was familiar with that Santa. That was the second Santa
Speaker 3: for John Beney, John Benet's family's Santa mc reynold's was
Speaker 3: Stanta number one. So as this party is winding down
Speaker 3: at fleet White's house and Priscilla's John Beney is thinking
Speaker 3: Santa and Santa is hoping she enjoyed all her presence.
Speaker 3: John Benay told that Santa Danta number two, she's expecting
Speaker 3: another Santa after Christmas, but it was a secret Santa,
Speaker 3: and he's going to bring her yet another present, Stanta
Speaker 3: number two. I'm not sure if he became a little
Speaker 3: annoyed that she might be greedy or didn't understand she
Speaker 3: was speaking of her truth. Santa's coming again after Christmas,
Speaker 3: because that Danta told her he has already been here
Speaker 3: at your home and here I am. So he wondered
Speaker 3: why she was expecting another Santa in the evening when
Speaker 3: everyone was leaving. I believe that John Beney told Priscilla White,
Speaker 3: Danta is coming again after Christmas when Papa John Ramsey
Speaker 3: tucked his child in bed. Somewhere along the line over
Speaker 3: these past twenty six years, someone pointed out that she
Speaker 3: also told her father while he's tucking her in and
Speaker 3: she wakes up just a moment or two, and she's
Speaker 3: excited because even though she's sleepy and it's been a
Speaker 3: long day, Danta is coming again after Christmas. The child
Speaker 3: who's now twenty six years older, that is recent. That
Speaker 3: is a young lady who knows what she heard from
Speaker 3: this precious six year old friend of hers, the other Santa.
Speaker 3: I don't know that he's still alive from the Fleet
Speaker 3: White party. And for Priscilla, she may remember that, but
Speaker 3: certainly I would think a father would remember the words
Speaker 3: that his daughter has to say about a secret Santa
Speaker 3: after Christmas.
Speaker 2: You're right about the groundskeeper and what John Benay had
Speaker 2: said to the groundskeeper regarding Secret Senna.
Speaker 3: Yes, her conversation with the groundskeeper stemmed from her coming
Speaker 3: to him and she was crying, and this I had
Speaker 3: read somewhere. She approached him, she was crying. He wants
Speaker 3: to know why she was crying. After all, it's Christmas,
Speaker 3: you've opened your presence, you've visited with stands, you have
Speaker 3: a brand new bike. Why would you be crying on Christmas?
Speaker 3: Probably he's thinking, as a young man himself, did someone
Speaker 3: hurt her? Did she fall? What's wrong? And she said
Speaker 3: to him, I wish my father was around more often.
Speaker 3: So at that moment I'm feeling is that if she's
Speaker 3: not seeing her father as the bad guy, I wish
Speaker 3: my father was around more often. And why does love hurt?
Speaker 3: Why does love hurt? That was the second comment. Why
Speaker 3: would a six year old even make such a statement
Speaker 3: is it because the secret Santa who visited every Christmas
Speaker 3: Eve hurt her while he's in costume. Is that a
Speaker 3: possibility the answers Yes.
Speaker 2: Let's get back to what the neighborhoard later after this,
Speaker 2: and again we're not going to go into what happened
Speaker 2: on that morning, the police arrival and the mishandling of
Speaker 2: this case, the gross mishandling of this case right from
Speaker 2: the very beginning of the investigation. But let's talk about
Speaker 2: what police do find in terms of a neighbor that
Speaker 2: comes forth and has something to say that they witnessed
Speaker 2: in terms of a scream, and also an eyewitness report
Speaker 2: that they gave to police. Tell us what they said
Speaker 2: to police in terms of this description and what they
Speaker 2: heard and when.
Speaker 3: That is such an important point, because the neighbor across
Speaker 3: the street heard after midnight or at midnight, a scream
Speaker 3: of a child, the most heart wrenched scream she had
Speaker 3: ever heard in her entire life. This scream came definitely,
Speaker 3: in her opinion, from across the street from the Ramsay's home.
Speaker 3: That tells us that at midnight, John Bane still alive,
Speaker 3: because she's the one that's screamed. Now, later that same
Speaker 3: witness who's hearing the scream and is wondering what's going
Speaker 3: on across the street. That same witness saw at five pm. Okay,
Speaker 3: now we're into the next day, the day after Christmas,
Speaker 3: where John and Patsy are leaving their home at five
Speaker 3: to go to the Fleet White party, but the neighbors
Speaker 3: saying goodbye. She has their dog. She sees a man
Speaker 3: coming from the left walking straight to John's house. There
Speaker 3: is a good chance that the person walking straight to
Speaker 3: John's house and cutting as you're looking at the front
Speaker 3: of the house over to the left corner watched John
Speaker 3: and Patsy pull away. Because of the timing, So this
Speaker 3: curious woman saw the image of the man, knows that
Speaker 3: he was maybe five six, maybe one hundred and thirty pounds.
Speaker 3: What jacket he was wearing that he with intention walked
Speaker 3: toward the house and off to the left corner. That
Speaker 3: would be by the way, the same corner where if
Speaker 3: you lift up the grate and slide into the room.
Speaker 3: It would be that corner. Later, when the police were
Speaker 3: there to find out about the kidnapping, which as you know,
Speaker 3: turned into a murder, he is there at running away
Speaker 3: from the house. That same man is running away from
Speaker 3: the house from the back and then back to the
Speaker 3: direction he came from. And this woman is watching him
Speaker 3: run away from the house while the authorities are in
Speaker 3: the house, probably looking for him. Now they realize this
Speaker 3: is not a kidnapping, this is a murder. So she
Speaker 3: had turned around and stopped one of the local officers
Speaker 3: in front of her home, like in between the two streets,
Speaker 3: and she said, there is a man running away from
Speaker 3: the house. This is what he looks like. But he
Speaker 3: is the same man that at five o'clock in the
Speaker 3: evening approached the house and that front left corner. So
Speaker 3: it's the same man at five who is running away. Now,
Speaker 3: maybe someone could go catch up with him and find
Speaker 3: out who he is and why is he here and
Speaker 3: why is he running away from the house When the
Speaker 3: house is loaded with police officers, she said, no one
Speaker 3: paid attention to her, No one pursued that individual. Incredible.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the most important thing that you bring
Speaker 2: to this story, obviously, is your interaction with this person
Speaker 2: you believe is the primary suspect, Bill Ramsey. First off,
Speaker 2: tell us who Bill Ramsey is, just officially, and then
Speaker 2: let's take our audience back to the karate school, and
Speaker 2: in July nineteen ninety six you write that your husband
Speaker 2: is involved in this karate school as an adult student
Speaker 2: and your son is involved as a child student at
Speaker 2: this AKC karate school. Tell us what this karate school is,
Speaker 2: who the instructor is, tell us a little bit about
Speaker 2: your son being there. Tell us give us a background
Speaker 2: about this karate school and why you're all there, and
Speaker 2: then what happens one day? Who do you meet.
Speaker 3: There's two karate schools, and we should always call them.
Speaker 3: Karate school number one, the original school that Bill Ramsey
Speaker 3: and his two friends participated in in Mannahawk and New Jersey.
Speaker 3: That's karate school number one. Let's call it the negative school.
Speaker 3: Karate school number two, the one my husband and son attended.
Speaker 3: Franklin was five and a half years old. He's in
Speaker 3: the child's class. Tom's in the adult class with other
Speaker 3: adult males and females. That's karate school number two. Parkinson
Speaker 3: Bay Karate School. The owner is Brian Parkinson. That was
Speaker 3: in Weartown, New Jersey, which is now the Waretown Post Office.
Speaker 3: This is where I met a man and his name
Speaker 3: was Bill Ramsey. Bill Ramsey and his two friends came
Speaker 3: together at the Parkinson Bay Karate School. Bill Ramsey's presence
Speaker 3: was very strongly felt because of his attention to the
Speaker 3: children and then his aggressive nature with the adult males,
Speaker 3: especially after he returned from John Benet's murder situation. Bill
Speaker 3: Ramsey is five feet six, he's one hundred and thirty
Speaker 3: pounds silk and wet. To describe him as very easy.
Speaker 3: Think of Charles Manson. This man standing right next to
Speaker 3: Charles Manson, and you probably wouldn't be able to tell
Speaker 3: them apart in height and build and weight, in the
Speaker 3: way they look in appearance. No disrespect to either one
Speaker 3: of them, but you're looking at someone very very similar
Speaker 3: to Charles Manson. Bill Ramsey's sitting on the bleachers. High
Speaker 3: on the bleachers, there's one bleacher. It kind of helps
Speaker 3: the karate instructor to keep the adults away from the
Speaker 3: children during the children's class. Bill was angry, and this
Speaker 3: is where he really got my attention. Bill was very,
Speaker 3: very angry because on the wall where Bill always sat
Speaker 3: high on the bleacher to his right was a wooden
Speaker 3: karate training sword. It was a very ornate piece of carving.
Speaker 3: It can be used as a sword. It can inflict danger,
Speaker 3: but it was intended as a unique gift, one of
Speaker 3: a kind for the owner of the school, given to
Speaker 3: mister Parkinson. Since the Parkinson by an appreciating customer client,
Speaker 3: it always hung on that wall. Bill Ramsey is all
Speaker 3: about wood and that's something we should all remember. My son,
Speaker 3: because he did very well in obtaining his white belt.
Speaker 3: Not remember he's a very active little boy five and
Speaker 3: a half years old, asked the karate instructor, since he
Speaker 3: won his white belt, would he please run up the
Speaker 3: bleacher grab the sword. He'll be very very careful, but
Speaker 3: he just wanted to stay it and handle it. Mister
Speaker 3: Parkinson gave him permission. Franklin ran off the bleachers behind
Speaker 3: Bill Ramsey, grabbed the sword off the wall, jumped down
Speaker 3: from the bleachers. It was only about five six steps.
Speaker 3: As he's playing something that would be like Zoral Power Rangers.
Speaker 3: He's just swinging the sword around, pretending to be able
Speaker 3: to train himself how to use it better. Not anyone
Speaker 3: in sight of him. No one was in danger. The
Speaker 3: karate instructor was keeping an eye on that. All of
Speaker 3: a sudden, Bill Ramsey jumps off the bleacher, went after
Speaker 3: Franklin ripped the sword from Franklin's hands and thrusted it
Speaker 3: forward Franklin's abdomen. Franklin, because he had just finished workout,
Speaker 3: Franklin intuitively jumped back away from the point of the sword.
Speaker 3: It's the wooden sword, and that instant I raised from
Speaker 3: the front of the school to Franklin, pushed them behind,
Speaker 3: grabbed the sword off. Bill Ramsey returned it to where
Speaker 3: it's supposed to be on the wall till the instructor
Speaker 3: get this man away from the children. He's a danger
Speaker 3: to the children. None of the children are his. Why
Speaker 3: is he here? And if he's here the next time,
Speaker 3: all parents will pull their children because I will pull mine.
Speaker 3: And the problem was resolved. We thought, that's Bill Ramsey tell.
Speaker 2: Us a little bit more about this unique hand carved,
Speaker 2: hand painted miniature karate sword.
Speaker 3: This sword, I had it in my own hands. It's
Speaker 3: only about twenty to twenty two inches in length. In
Speaker 3: that area the sword had scrolled where you would put
Speaker 3: your hand the hand grip. It had scrolled in gold
Speaker 3: the word Korea. Not made in Japan, made in China,
Speaker 3: made in Korea. No, no, no, only just one word
Speaker 3: scrolled in gold paint. Indicative of it being a one
Speaker 3: of a kind and created for this instructor. The word
Speaker 3: Korea down the shaft of it on all sides was
Speaker 3: what one would think, is this black laquer swiggles like
Speaker 3: little snakes. It wasn't. It was Korean lettering. The Korean
Speaker 3: lettering meant pride, integrity, that sort of thing. It also
Speaker 3: had splashes of other colors of paint. And it was
Speaker 3: sealed with a glistening laquer. That's very very important. It
Speaker 3: was sealed. This whole piece of wood artwork was sealed
Speaker 3: with a glistening laquer. The reason why that's important is
Speaker 3: in the autopsy report, the coroner is very specific as
Speaker 3: to the explanation and detailing of the wooden stick, which
Speaker 3: everyone is calling a paint brush handle, whether it is
Speaker 3: or it isn't. I only know this when he said
Speaker 3: the word Korea scrolled in gold paint, and then there
Speaker 3: were black swiggles of lacquer paint running up and down it,
Speaker 3: and a splash of multiple color paints, and it was
Speaker 3: sealed with a glistening He basically described the sword I
Speaker 3: just described to you, sir, So not only that, but
Speaker 3: mister Stepansky, this is a man who loves wood can
Speaker 3: turn wood into anything he absolutely wants to. So was
Speaker 3: that stick that completed the garag? Was it from the
Speaker 3: paint brush tray? A handle? A paintbrush handle. I can
Speaker 3: tell you one thing I know about paintbrush handles. They
Speaker 3: are never how much you spend on them, how little
Speaker 3: you spend on them, it's irrelevant. They're never sealed with
Speaker 3: a glistening lacker. They're never. They don't have Korean words
Speaker 3: going up and down them. They don't have scrolled and
Speaker 3: go only one word Korea. They have yes, made in Japan,
Speaker 3: made in China. Yes they have that, but not what
Speaker 3: was described as this miniature would karate training sort. So,
Speaker 3: sooner or later we are going to connect what exactly
Speaker 3: was used to make the garage.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about his behavior. You mentioned that his behavior
Speaker 2: in the class was a concerned to all the parents,
Speaker 2: and so they went to the instructor and tried to
Speaker 2: come up with some solutions. So the adults were not
Speaker 2: unless they were a guardian or parent of the child,
Speaker 2: they were not allowed to be at these classes. And
Speaker 2: the adults were only permitted to be at these classes
Speaker 2: five minutes arrived only five minutes before their classes, so
Speaker 2: there was a separation between the children and having someone
Speaker 2: not connected to the children. Say, for example, observing in
Speaker 2: this interim from July to December, your husband was in
Speaker 2: these adult classes, and other people communicated with this person
Speaker 2: that was in these classes as fellow karate devote. What
Speaker 2: are the things that were said just before Christmas of
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3: Mister Sepansky, you just hit on the most important part
Speaker 3: of all of this. Bill came in and is rare
Speaker 3: that Bill Ramsey is in good spirits. Only one day
Speaker 3: that I know of, he announced to the karate instructor
Speaker 3: that he and his two friends are seasonal workers in construction.
Speaker 3: They didn't have the mighty paid the tuition for the
Speaker 3: last couple of months. The crowding instructor said, that's okay.
Speaker 3: When you get back to work, then you can just
Speaker 3: catch up. I know you're not going anywhere. He said,
Speaker 3: oh no, no, I expect to collect one hundred and
Speaker 3: eighteen thousand dollars as an inheritance, and when I returned
Speaker 3: from Boulder, Colorado, I will not only pay my delinquent tuition,
Speaker 3: but that of my two friends Ed and Terry. And
Speaker 3: he said, well, that's okay, no pressure, but did somebody die?
Speaker 3: You used the word inheritance. Did someone die? He said, oh? No,
Speaker 3: said I visit my father every Christmas Eve for a
Speaker 3: large sum of money. It sustains me for a year,
Speaker 3: and then I go back to the next stasy for that
Speaker 3: year's inheritance. Nobody died, and the crowding instructor, mister Brian Parkinson, said, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: I just I was concerned because you use that one
Speaker 3: word inheritance. He said, no, no, no. The other thing
Speaker 3: that took place was when anyone the men or the
Speaker 3: children would earn a belt rightfully, so everybody else would
Speaker 3: hear them on. Another adult male right another adult male
Speaker 3: said to him, you know, don't you have any family
Speaker 3: to be here for you and cheer you on and
Speaker 3: encourage you. Beside your two friends at in Terry. Don't
Speaker 3: you have anybody? He said, no, I'm the black sheep
Speaker 3: of a wealthy family. They live out in Boulder, Colorado.
Speaker 3: I see them once a year. They can't be bothered
Speaker 3: with me other than give me money to stay away
Speaker 3: from them. And he was very angry, and he said,
Speaker 3: I hate children, I hate children, I hate my siblings,
Speaker 3: I hate women and he just kind of used that
Speaker 3: moment to vent his anger toward a specific group, his siblings,
Speaker 3: because they were doted over his words, not mine, they
Speaker 3: were doted over, and all he gets his money once
Speaker 3: a year to get out of town and stay away
Speaker 3: for another year. Those were his words to different people
Speaker 3: in the karate class who happened to be standing around
Speaker 3: in a group encouraging one another to succeed in getting
Speaker 3: their next belt. So enough men in that karate class
Speaker 3: heard that, but more telling beside one hundred and eighteen
Speaker 3: thousand dollars before he ever left Ocean County, New Jersey,
Speaker 3: in this case where town, New Jersey, before he ever left,
Speaker 3: and expressing his hatred for his siblings because they're doated
Speaker 3: over and women in general, and that he traveled to
Speaker 3: Boulder to receive money once every Christmas. Considering all of that,
Speaker 3: Considering all of that, when this man came back from Boulder, Colorado,
Speaker 3: after the murder of this child, he had not received
Speaker 3: one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars, and he was filled
Speaker 3: with rage and anger, and he only took it out
Speaker 3: on one person, my husband.
Speaker 2: Let's go back to something that happened before his planned
Speaker 2: Christmas visit. I think it's very important if this was
Speaker 2: witnessed and you write that it was. What was the
Speaker 2: footwear the new footwear that Bill Ramsey came to the
Speaker 2: karate class wearing.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you're brilliant he prior to the trip,
Speaker 3: because he sat high in the bleachers and he always
Speaker 3: wore what I would call clothes of a paulper if
Speaker 3: I may say so, and no disrespect please, But all
Speaker 3: of a sudden he's sitting on the bleachers and since
Speaker 3: he says, hi, you cannot miss the red logo. It's
Speaker 3: a type of a feather ring, bright red Indian feathering,
Speaker 3: if you will. That's why I would explain it as
Speaker 3: and the words high tech HI, dash, capital T, capital E,
Speaker 3: capital C. Because these very shiny footwear is new to
Speaker 3: his wardrobe. The men, especially the karate instructor, mister Brian Parkinson,
Speaker 3: encouraged him and commented in a very positive way, hoping
Speaker 3: that he would do the same with the rest of
Speaker 3: his wardrobe, like not look so Charles Manson like. So
Speaker 3: they commented and he said, well, it's cold where I'm
Speaker 3: going and I needed this footwear and so now it'll
Speaker 3: be easier for him to visit his father for the
Speaker 3: collection of his money. But please remember something which I
Speaker 3: just found out recently, which is why I'm bringing it
Speaker 3: up right now. There is police issue items that were
Speaker 3: in the crime scene that to this day nobody can explain.
Speaker 3: The high tech brant one footprint one in the dust
Speaker 3: next to John Benay where she was found. That's a
Speaker 3: police issued footwear. I didn't know that. I do know
Speaker 3: that now. Also the mag flashlight, the mag flashlight that
Speaker 3: was found and nobody has identified it as being there
Speaker 3: or somebody brought it in and just forgot about it. No, no, no,
Speaker 3: that is also police issued. The mag flashlight is police issued.
Speaker 3: Officers can use that to protect themselves that they're in
Speaker 3: a tough spot when they don't want to use their
Speaker 3: pistols and anything else for that matter. Mister Bill Ramsey,
Speaker 3: he attended the first karate school, and this is very important.
Speaker 3: The first karate school was AKC Karate School operated by
Speaker 3: Scott Razer his true name aka Tom Yobaggi, his fraudulent name,
Speaker 3: so he operated the school under a fraudulent name. The
Speaker 3: reason he did that is he was a career pedophile.
Speaker 3: He'd been arrested in multiple states. Bill Ramsey and he
Speaker 3: formed an unusual unhealthy friendship. Bill Ramsey built the loft
Speaker 3: over the karate school where the children in that class
Speaker 3: were being molested. Scott Raiser aka Tom Yoboggi went to
Speaker 3: prison for fifty three counts of child molestation and other
Speaker 3: crimes against children, pleaded down to nine. That school taught
Speaker 3: the local police officers only police officers self defense tactical training,
Speaker 3: and on the brochure it said against foreign factions. The
Speaker 3: ransom note has the words foreign faction pox five. Google
Speaker 3: those words and they said those two words together appears nowhere,
Speaker 3: nowhere on any search engine, but they did in the
Speaker 3: brochure from AKC Karate School for police training only. I
Speaker 3: couldn't get in that class. You couldn't get in that class, sir.
Speaker 3: But Bill Ramsey did because he had friendship with the
Speaker 3: local police. When that karate school, mister Scott Razor aka
Speaker 3: tomil Bangi went to prison for his criminal activity against
Speaker 3: his student children, then the local police had to shut
Speaker 3: down that school. They contacted Bill Ramsey and his friends
Speaker 3: and said, we have no need for the stunt guns
Speaker 3: that are here and wooden sword or whatever else is here.
Speaker 3: The uniforms if you want them, come take whatever you want.
Speaker 3: We are just so detective loo Smith with a variety
Speaker 3: of experts verifight, those worst fun gun mark not railroad
Speaker 3: track and pieces.
Speaker 2: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear
Speaker 2: from our sponsor here now continuing, we were talking about
Speaker 2: Bill Ramsey when he returns to this school. You talk
Speaker 2: about Bill Ramsey as a result of this investigation into
Speaker 2: the murder of John Beney, bill Ramsey changes his name.
Speaker 2: Tell us about what Bill Ramsey changes his name and
Speaker 2: when and how you are what are the circumstances that
Speaker 2: you get involved in this case and what do you do?
Speaker 3: Wow? Okay, here we go, mister Savansky. Bill Ramsey left
Speaker 3: to go to Boulder, Colorado. He was happy. He expected
Speaker 3: to collect and it was a specific amount that he
Speaker 3: mentioned before he ever left, one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: It is that very amount that the authorities probably need
Speaker 3: to look at. Why did he know that amount, which
Speaker 3: is also in the ransom note? So he returned without
Speaker 3: the funds. He attacked my husband multiple times. My husband
Speaker 3: put a stop to it. My husband warned him the
Speaker 3: first time, it's just sparring. It's warming up. But he
Speaker 3: attacked my husband aggressively. The first time, my husband backed
Speaker 3: them off. He attacked my husband the second time. My
Speaker 3: husband back to them off is out. Listen. I don't
Speaker 3: know what happened during your holiday, but you're not taking
Speaker 3: it out on me now. Just bathe yourself and stop.
Speaker 3: But we're only spiring enough. If you want another partner, fine,
Speaker 3: And he went after my husband a third time. My
Speaker 3: husband is a gentle giant, a sweet little polock who
Speaker 3: was six feet four and three hundred pounds. He means
Speaker 3: to hurt no one. He was in class to help
Speaker 3: him with his weight control. But my husband had already
Speaker 3: been struck twice by Bill Ramsey. So my husband did
Speaker 3: a palm strike, sent Bill Ramsey across the room. Bill
Speaker 3: Ramsey bounced off the wall, picked himself up. Now the
Speaker 3: other adult are looking at this man who's very embarrassed.
Speaker 3: Bill Ramsey's embarrassed because everybody saw this. Bill Ramsey. He's
Speaker 3: angry because he's now hurt. I am sure my husband
Speaker 3: hit him hard for him to roll across the school.
Speaker 3: Bill Ramsey is looking to the right, Looking to the left,
Speaker 3: Bill Ramsey's heading out the door, turns around before he
Speaker 3: opened the door, before he left, and he said, yelling, everybody,
Speaker 3: from now on, do not call me Bill Ramsey. My
Speaker 3: name is Larry Rohan. Got it, Larry Rohn. Don't call
Speaker 3: me Bill Ramsey anymore. I will not answer you. And
Speaker 3: out the door he storms. There is another meeting, there
Speaker 3: is another gathering the next class. Bill comes in. He's quiet,
Speaker 3: he's not saying nothing to anyone. Now that's his normal behavior.
Speaker 3: This body language is like, don't come near me, that
Speaker 3: sort of thing. Well, one of the other adults, not
Speaker 3: my husband, whose mother and father are FBI agents, and
Speaker 3: that's important. So this is the very smart man who
Speaker 3: I later found out is affiliated with the Ocean County
Speaker 3: Prosecutor's office right here in New Jersey. He didn't like
Speaker 3: the name change, so he was poking the bear and
Speaker 3: Bill came in. He said to Bill, Hey, billy boy, Hey,
Speaker 3: billy boy, do you know that little girl that was
Speaker 3: founded in her basement? Are you related to that little girl?
Speaker 3: He didn't say John Binay, John Benny Ramsey. He didn't
Speaker 3: even say Boulder, Colorado. Just simply, are you related to
Speaker 3: a little girl that was found that in her basement? Hey, Billy. Well,
Speaker 3: let me tell you what happened. Billy is now shuffling
Speaker 3: to the right, shuffling to the left, looking all over,
Speaker 3: trying to figure out. I'm guessing what he's going to
Speaker 3: do at that moment. And Billy, who always likes to
Speaker 3: exit when he's stuck in a herd spot, turns around
Speaker 3: and bellows out, I don't know, no Johnny B. Nobody
Speaker 3: knows Johnny B. And then he stormed out, and I
Speaker 3: was there and everyone else heard it, and we're all wondering,
Speaker 3: Who's Johnny B. Isn't her name john Ben A Ramsey,
Speaker 3: doom Bin A Ramsey, but not Johnny B. And I
Speaker 3: never forgot that. That stuck in my memory.
Speaker 2: When did you read and get confirmation of that, Johnny B.
Speaker 2: When did the light bulb go off to the importance
Speaker 2: of what he had said at that time, Johnny B.
Speaker 2: When did you come to the understanding what that meant?
Speaker 3: Mister Sepanski. That was not until many years later when
Speaker 3: John and Patsy wrote the book Death of Innocence. It
Speaker 3: is in that book that is a term of endearment
Speaker 3: that within their home, John and Patsy both addressed their
Speaker 3: precious little girl as Johnny B. A derivative of John Bennett,
Speaker 3: her father reduced to Johnny B. A pet name, if
Speaker 3: you will. That was many, many years later. So how
Speaker 3: come Bill Ramsey in the earliest of stages of the
Speaker 3: murder investigation, We're talking less than a month. How is
Speaker 3: it that he knew that that child was addressed by
Speaker 3: her mom and dad as Johnny B. When nobody knew
Speaker 3: until the book Death of Innocence by John and Patsy
Speaker 3: many years later, we didn't know. But how did he know?
Speaker 2: How does this fit into your idea that the parents
Speaker 2: were indicted in nineteen ninety nine, I believe, and you
Speaker 2: say that basically there was seven charges, but two of
Speaker 2: the charges from the Boulder Daily Reporter, you say, named Charles,
Speaker 2: that the indictments didn't lead to an arrect but they
Speaker 2: could have, but it was never presented. The charges were
Speaker 2: never presented, So you say, were the charges were? That
Speaker 2: they allowed the child to be in the vicinity of
Speaker 2: someone they knew that was dangerous that likely resulted or
Speaker 2: did result in the murder of John Bennet. Now, now
Speaker 2: given that information, how does this secret Senna play into
Speaker 2: your entire idea of what happened and why that night.
Speaker 3: Okay, this is a good time to tell the world
Speaker 3: that the book Secret Santa My Murderer was given to
Speaker 3: John Benne's Secret Santa My Murderer. All the backup information,
Speaker 3: absolutely every little chrome I could gather that was given
Speaker 3: to by special delivery to the Governor, mister Bill Owens.
Speaker 3: Governor Owens, very good man, honorable man. It was also
Speaker 3: given to just just before the Grand Jury announce their
Speaker 3: decision to Alex Hunter. They both within less than a
Speaker 3: week of the grand jury announcement, received information every chrome
Speaker 3: I had on Bill Ramsey's multiple aliases, two of which
Speaker 3: our government generated documents, and I was hoping that they
Speaker 3: would at least use that information to solicit cooperation from
Speaker 3: John and Patsy, And in fact Bill tried to Governor
Speaker 3: Owens did try to terry I. The Attorney General also
Speaker 3: has the same information. So it's not like I'm giving
Speaker 3: it to every Tom, Dick and Harry. No, I'm giving
Speaker 3: the information to the authorities in hopes that they will
Speaker 3: pursue it. So then here is Alex Hunter, only a
Speaker 3: few days fresh with having this information. He's receiving the
Speaker 3: decision by the courts that the grand jury wants to
Speaker 3: indict John and Patsy for allowing their child to be
Speaker 3: in the vicinity of someone who they knew in advance
Speaker 3: was very dangerous, resulting in the death of their child. Now,
Speaker 3: who are they talking about in the home Patsy John Burke?
Speaker 3: So were they talking about nine year old little boy?
Speaker 3: I don't think so. Were they talking about the mother
Speaker 3: or the father? I believe the grand jury somehow, some way,
Speaker 3: Remember I wasn't there, but I believe, somehow, some way,
Speaker 3: someone introduced the information about Bill Ramsey to the grand jury,
Speaker 3: because nothing else makes sense. What Alex Hunter did is
Speaker 3: when Alex Hunter receives this information written that they want
Speaker 3: to indict, That's when Alex Hunter said, there's not enough
Speaker 3: information here to indict. Was he talking about the decision
Speaker 3: the grand jury made in reference to John, Patsy or Burke. No, No,
Speaker 3: he wasn't. He was talking about the information he received
Speaker 3: about Bill Ramsey. That's what he was talking about. And
Speaker 3: when he said we don't have enough information here to indict,
Speaker 3: he was talking about John Patsy for their knowledge about
Speaker 3: Bill Ramsey. That's the whole of it. And most people,
Speaker 3: if they don't have what you have, sir, They don't understand,
Speaker 3: and that's that's not their fault. Again, the original police
Speaker 3: who came to the home, if they did not know.
Speaker 3: Somebody comes there every Christmas Eve to collect a large
Speaker 3: sum of money and his name is Bill Ramsey aka
Speaker 3: William Lawrence Rowan and all the rest of it. Is
Speaker 3: it the police fault? Or maybe is it the parents
Speaker 3: holding back information which does not give the authorities the
Speaker 3: full picture. That's my argument, that has always been my argument.
Speaker 3: Just collect Bill Ramsey's DNA. He's in North Carolina. He's
Speaker 3: using yet another alia. And if you don't want to
Speaker 3: listen to me for any reason whatsoever, look at the
Speaker 3: government generated documents that are in John Binney's secret stands
Speaker 3: on my murderer. I did not make those up. He did.
Speaker 3: So why does this innocent man, if he thinks he's
Speaker 3: innocent and everybody else thinks he's innocent and irrelevant to
Speaker 3: the John Binney murder, why does he keep changing his
Speaker 3: name his appearance? When he returned from Boulder, he immediately
Speaker 3: changed his name yet again. Larry Rone is his new name.
Speaker 3: I have in the book his business card. He is
Speaker 3: a carver of wood. So I'm giving everybody proof of
Speaker 3: his different identifications. I gave them his government generated police
Speaker 3: mugshop in Ocean County, New Jersey for assault and battery.
Speaker 3: That's under his first name, his true name, Bill Ramsey.
Speaker 3: Then you have the business card that he created when
Speaker 3: he returned. Then you have a recent from I believe
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, his North Carolina CDL license under William Lawrence Rohane.
Speaker 3: And now recently, within the last six months, he's using
Speaker 3: a different name altogether by just simply adding a different alphabet,
Speaker 3: Billy roha Inn. So if he's not guilty of something,
Speaker 3: why does he keep changing his name? If he's not
Speaker 3: guilty of something, why did when he return from Boulder
Speaker 3: did he immediately change the color of his originally blackboard
Speaker 3: Ranger pickup truck to the new color of blood red
Speaker 3: is a license plate number with JJW two six das
Speaker 3: in diamond. I'll tell you why. Because it wasn't in
Speaker 3: a car accident. He was afraid someone saw that blackboard
Speaker 3: Ranger pickup truck in the vicinity of John Binney's home park,
Speaker 3: somewhere where it didn't belong. They may not remember the truck,
Speaker 3: but by gosh, I believe they will remember it had
Speaker 3: New Jersey license plate. So when the law enforcement rightfully
Speaker 3: say someone brought up a blackboard Ranger pickup truck, new
Speaker 3: Jersey license plate, operative color black. But you come to
Speaker 3: New Jersey and the authorities are looking for a blackboard
Speaker 3: Ranger pickup truck, they're not going to find it. Why
Speaker 3: because his new red he jumped from one residence to another,
Speaker 3: staying at each individual's home only for a week or two,
Speaker 3: and then he'd goes someplace else to live, avoiding a
Speaker 3: paper trail or a place where he could be picked up.
Speaker 3: All of his changes, including shaving off his beard and
Speaker 3: his mustache, so now he has a clean shaven face
Speaker 3: and pulling his hair back so tight that from let's
Speaker 3: just say two or three blocks away from him, you
Speaker 3: would think he was bald because he kept that ponytail
Speaker 3: so tight in changing yet his appearance. In another way,
Speaker 3: someone who's innocent, someone's not trying to hide from the
Speaker 3: authorities does not do all of these things. And more importantly,
Speaker 3: prior to this is important. Prior to ever leaving to
Speaker 3: go to Boulder to collect his one hundred and eighteen
Speaker 3: thousand dollars, the Karate School, Parkinson Bay Karate School was
Speaker 3: broken into. Only two things were stolen, the wood carving
Speaker 3: on the wall that Bill Ramsey coveted, and only his
Speaker 3: application to the karate school, because the karate instructor found
Speaker 3: the drawer was open and and the file folder was
Speaker 3: cocked sideways, so he thumbed through it quickly to see
Speaker 3: what was missing Bill Ramsey, and only Bill Ramsey's application
Speaker 3: before he ever left New Jersey. Do you know what
Speaker 3: that tells me? That tells me he had planned b
Speaker 3: if he didn't collect this one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars,
Speaker 3: and he did not want anything that would be able
Speaker 3: to be compared to the ransom note, so he removed
Speaker 3: his application which had his handwriting sample on it. But
Speaker 3: Bill Ramsey does wood carvings, and I did send you
Speaker 3: a picture of one of his wood carvings of a
Speaker 3: Native American Indian man.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay.
Speaker 3: On the back of that wood carving, mister Panskey, if
Speaker 3: you look, it's a very short w and it hangs high,
Speaker 3: it ends high, swing high, ill, and it ends with
Speaker 3: the hangman's news. That's what you're saying, mister Pansky. Any
Speaker 3: artists work their assault, whether they're painting, or they're making
Speaker 3: play pottery or what have you. They signed their full
Speaker 3: name Bill Ramsey. Can't sign Bill Ramsey. He can't sign
Speaker 3: and will not sign a fake name Larry Rohan or
Speaker 3: Rohan he will not. So what he stuck with is
Speaker 3: what he will signl as in William ending with a
Speaker 3: hangman's noose. He bragged about to him how important that
Speaker 3: hangman's noise is. And John Denney had the rope the
Speaker 3: white cord wrapped around her neck not once but twice
Speaker 3: and pulled using the groant as part of the weapon,
Speaker 3: pulled with the force that would be needed to take
Speaker 3: down a three hundred pound man. In the ransom note,
Speaker 3: he mentions whoever is the author of the ransom note,
Speaker 3: mentions that your child will be decapitated if you go
Speaker 3: against everything that we asked you to do. Well, let
Speaker 3: me say this, he nearly did that. He nearly did
Speaker 3: that to this child because of the force that was used.
Speaker 2: Linda, let's use this as an opportunity to stop for
Speaker 2: a second for these messages. You actually talked about this
Speaker 2: garrot as well, and also what was found in the autopsy.
Speaker 2: Not to get any more graphic than people's imagination already
Speaker 2: has in this case, but there was something that was consistent.
Speaker 2: People again have mentioned it as a broken paint brush handle,
Speaker 2: But what was found forensically, what was found in that
Speaker 2: autopsy concerning a sliver of wood and.
Speaker 3: John Benney, Oh my god, that poor child. There was
Speaker 3: a sliver of wood. It was a tan color as
Speaker 3: in remember the old fashioned school pencils number two that
Speaker 3: we all used as children and they still use them now.
Speaker 3: It was that color tan, and this sliver of wood
Speaker 3: either came from only one of two places. They claimed
Speaker 3: the paint brush handle that is broken at both ends
Speaker 3: but they can't find the pieces, or it came from
Speaker 3: the wooden karate training sword that was used as a
Speaker 3: weapon against John Benet in different ways. In different ways.
Speaker 3: You're mentioning one way that that because it's the same
Speaker 3: color wood, it's the same tan. Unless you've seen it
Speaker 3: as I have seen it, you wouldn't know that. So
Speaker 3: she may have been I don't even know how to
Speaker 3: do this. Just use your imagination to figure what he
Speaker 3: did with that sword. That's number one, but number two,
Speaker 3: that sword is the only thing that would have caused
Speaker 3: an eight and one half inch elongated V shaped skull
Speaker 3: fracture to this child's goal. But you have to remember something.
Speaker 3: She was abducted from her bed. That's the first assault
Speaker 3: against the child. She was thumb gunned in order to
Speaker 3: immobilize her. That was the second attack against this child.
Speaker 3: She was sexually assaulted. And by the way, the multiple
Speaker 3: medical examiner's corners have determined, according to Detective blue Smith,
Speaker 3: that these attacks against her in her vagina wall were
Speaker 3: over a period of time because of the age of
Speaker 3: the different scarring that they could see. So I am
Speaker 3: taking this moment to say, every time this man, Bill Ramsey,
Speaker 3: went to collect his funds for that year's inheritance, is
Speaker 3: it a far stretch to think that that is not
Speaker 3: all he did to this child? Is it a far
Speaker 3: stretch not? According to the medical examiner, there is old
Speaker 3: scarring from different periods of time in the vagina wall
Speaker 3: of this child, but that was not all. The abduction,
Speaker 3: the sun gun, the sexual assaults. The ligature. Now she's dead. Please,
Speaker 3: this is the confusing moment for everybody. But I will
Speaker 3: tell you after the ligature there is no blood flow
Speaker 3: in her brain, in her skull area, in her head area.
Speaker 3: She is dead. Do you think that was enough for
Speaker 3: this sadistic man. No, because he cracked her over the skull.
Speaker 3: And the only thing that would cause that kind of
Speaker 3: v shaped eight and one half inchlongated skull fractor is
Speaker 3: the karate wooden training sort, especially if it's only twenty
Speaker 3: to twenty two inches long and it's triangular in its shape.
Speaker 3: I tell you this, I can't begin to tell you
Speaker 3: how agnauseous I was when they said that it was
Speaker 3: a mad flashlight, or a brick, or worse yet, the
Speaker 3: wrong side of a baseball bat. Those are the three
Speaker 3: things they came up with. None of them fit the
Speaker 3: type of damage that done to that child's skull by
Speaker 3: a karate wooden training sword. John Douglas, criminal profilist, said,
Speaker 3: whoever did this, as far as just breaking the ends
Speaker 3: off what they perceived to be a paint brush handle,
Speaker 3: was extremely strong because it's a short, not a very
Speaker 3: long paint brush handle, short for canvas work, and he
Speaker 3: said that person had to be very strong in their wrist,
Speaker 3: in their wrist, and in their hands. Bill Ramsey is
Speaker 3: a carver of ornate wood. The wood is half of
Speaker 3: a log. It might be anywhere from from a foot
Speaker 3: to a foot and a half to three feet tall,
Speaker 3: but literally half of a log. And he carves the
Speaker 3: most beautiful carvings of Native American Indian men, native American warriors,
Speaker 3: the medicine man, never women, never children. I got my
Speaker 3: hands on one of those carvings. That one was seven
Speaker 3: hundred dollars in the back. If you look at the
Speaker 3: will with the hangman's nows and that W and that
Speaker 3: I and those ls are all through that ransom note,
Speaker 3: especially on the last two pages where he's not so careful.
Speaker 2: Ordinary you also talk about the ransom note, very very
Speaker 2: interesting that one letter in particular, someone that you got
Speaker 2: to look at this handwriting expert per se what was
Speaker 2: so unusual about the one letter in that ransom note.
Speaker 3: That's brilliant on your part, Absolutely brilliant. There is a
Speaker 3: letter P like people or public and it has a
Speaker 3: slash across it on an angle. Where you're going to
Speaker 3: see that again. Somewhere else is there's an old VHS tape.
Speaker 3: The seven deadly sins on the jacket of that VHS
Speaker 3: tape are listed the seven deadly sins, and there is
Speaker 3: a slash on the middle letter of each of the sins.
Speaker 3: John Douglas said, whoever does this watches movies all the time,
Speaker 3: has a lot of free time on their hands, takes
Speaker 3: some verbage from the different movies John Wayne, et cetera,
Speaker 3: and puts it into the ransom note, incorporates it into
Speaker 3: the ransom note. So when I took a copy of
Speaker 3: Bill Ramsey's application to the karate school and a two
Speaker 3: and a half page ransom note, a copy of it,
Speaker 3: I took it to forensic criminologists, the cream of the
Speaker 3: crop that we have here in Ocean County worked for
Speaker 3: the State Police Department. And I was catching him, by
Speaker 3: the grace of God, as he's coming out of the building.
Speaker 3: I'm going into building. I reported to him that a
Speaker 3: dead rat was found at my front door. But I
Speaker 3: would like him to look at something, and I showed
Speaker 3: him the two documents, the ransom note I showed I
Speaker 3: didn't know about that pee, by the way, up until
Speaker 3: this moment. I showed him Bill Ramsey's Parkinson Bay Karate
Speaker 3: School application, the one that disappeared, but everybody forgets there
Speaker 3: were two of them. And he looked at it, and
Speaker 3: it didn't take him very long whatsoever, because he pulled
Speaker 3: out a magnifying glass that he always seems to keep
Speaker 3: in his pocket. He pulled it out. He looked at
Speaker 3: both documents, and here's his exact words. There is a
Speaker 3: letter P with a slash across it from top right
Speaker 3: down to bottom left, that is in both documents. That
Speaker 3: tells me that the author of the ransom note and
Speaker 3: the author of the application to the karate school is
Speaker 3: in the same person. Because I have never in my
Speaker 3: very long career seeing that ever before. And now I
Speaker 3: am looking at two different documents with that very same
Speaker 3: unusual letter P, and they both have that slash across it. Why.
Speaker 3: Because one of the deadly sins that has that slash
Speaker 3: across it in the peak is the sin of pride.
Speaker 3: There is no cure for the sin of pride. Pride
Speaker 3: is why John Binney died. Besides the fact that he
Speaker 3: didn't receive his money, Pride and jealousy because all the
Speaker 3: other his own words, all the other siblings get voted over,
Speaker 3: but not Bill. Not Bill. Here's your money once a year,
Speaker 3: stay away for another year. That's where his anger came from.
Speaker 3: But not receiving it. Somebody had to pay for him
Speaker 3: not coming back with that one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. Yes,
Speaker 3: John Biney paid the bill.
Speaker 2: Let's discuss some of your efforts that haven't brought you
Speaker 2: the results that you wanted obviously, But you talk about
Speaker 2: the American Investigative Society of Cold Cases and Kenneth Means
Speaker 2: and that you were invited and people like Canry Leaf
Speaker 2: that had similar conclusions to you work as a forensic pathologist.
Speaker 2: Tell us about this American Investigation Investigative Society of Cold
Speaker 2: Cases and your meeting there.
Speaker 3: Oh. Absolutely, First of all, it should be a place
Speaker 3: of honor to be mentioned about Detective Kenneth Mains. Detective
Speaker 3: Kenneth Mains is the president and the founder of American
Speaker 3: Investigative Society of Cold Cases. He had a case it
Speaker 3: troubled him. He could not come to a satisfactory conclusion,
Speaker 3: which was justice for the victim. He had no problem
Speaker 3: sharing that information with another detective and they swapped cases,
Speaker 3: so that is a fresh pair of eyes on each
Speaker 3: their own case, but by another detective. That was brilliant.
Speaker 3: You don't normally see that in homicide cases. Because it
Speaker 3: worked so well that both cases had a successful resolution.
Speaker 3: What happened next is this brilliant man Detective Kenneth Mains.
Speaker 3: He organized American Investigative Society of Cold Cases, but that
Speaker 3: is now around the world. Homicide experts, forensic experts, they
Speaker 3: are now for the first time under the wing of
Speaker 3: this courageous, very intelligent, caring man. They're coming together and
Speaker 3: they're sharing information. They're cooperating in homicide cases. Who can
Speaker 3: see that one missing puzzle that I might not have
Speaker 3: been able to see. I don't have an eagle issue.
Speaker 3: I have a desire to fight for the family of
Speaker 3: the victims and their loved ones so everyone could rest
Speaker 3: in peace. Those who have taken from us wrongly rest
Speaker 3: in peace, but they're families who are aching foreclosure. Look
Speaker 3: for this man, easy pull his CDL in North Carolina.
Speaker 3: You will see what he looks like these days, and
Speaker 3: then do a ping in reference to his phone number
Speaker 3: and his general contractor's phone number collective DNA. It will
Speaker 3: match or it will not match. It's really that simple.
Speaker 3: But to do nothing about the least of what is
Speaker 3: left to be done, there is no logical explanation for that.
Speaker 2: I want to thank you very much Melinda Coola for
Speaker 2: coming on and talking about your book. Secret Senna My
Speaker 2: Murderer The True John Beney Completed puzzle for those that
Speaker 2: might want to take a look at for more information
Speaker 2: about this case and this book. Do you have a
Speaker 2: website and do you do any social media?
Speaker 3: Yes, the website is John Bennet's Truecasehistory dot net and
Speaker 3: I am constantly on different podcasts based on requests from
Speaker 3: people around the world.
Speaker 2: And you have the Facebook page as well.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's m l I N d A dot k
Speaker 3: U l A.
Speaker 2: I want to thank you so much, Melinda Coola Secret
Speaker 2: Sanna My Murderer The True John Benet Completed Puzzle. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for this interview, and you have a
Speaker 2: great evening, and good
Speaker 3: Night, good night, and thank you, thank you,