Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, This is Christina and Carmen and this is
another episode of his Spooky Tales, a podcast for all
things spooky, true crime, myths, legends in Latin America, or
just you know Latino things in the US. This month,
we said we were going to only do femicide cases. However,
something very pressing has come up. Yeah, today, March eighteenth,
twenty twenty sixth, at the time of recording, very dark
allegations of sexual abuse have been made against Sasa Chavis.
And we say allegations because like none of this is
like legally confirmed in the eyes of the law, right,
but there's like sixty people who corroborated this, like the
New York Timessy. Yeah, they they went in deep in
this report of THEIRS reporting of theirs. These allegations involved
and Dolts Wertha herself. Before we get into that though,
over at our history podcast East Dordias Unknown, which is
always linked in the show notes. Last year we did
a five part episode series on Tessa Chavs and we
went in pretty deep in those episodes. Yeah, and I'm
going to share a very condensed version of what we
went through in those episodes right now before talking about
the new allegations just for context, because I feel like
this might be like a surprise for a lot of people,
but there's a long pattern of like disturbing and violent
behavior from him from Tasa Chavis, and so that's why
we're sharing this condensed version of those episodes here. Because
also I've seen some pretty disturbing comments, like one always
blaming the women, right, especially dolo is Wertha right now. Yeah,
I was very discuss said by some of the comments
I've seen basically say well, what did she know?
Speaker 2: And it's like she was abused.
Speaker 1: You know how much bravery it takes because the message
is like these comments like that for survivors of sexual
abuse to come forward, for women to come forward, and
it takes years, like for example, like people that are
abuse as children, it takes them I don't remember the number,
but it's like thirty twenty to thirty years to disclose
what happened. And even as an adult, it takes so
much time first to come to terms with yourself as
to what happened, Like it takes people years because we're
conditioned as a society in rape culture, right, so we're
already conditioned for I guess I just abuse of children
and women is normalized. So it takes already so much
time for some survivors of sexual abuse to realize they
were even sexual abused, so much time to overcome, work
through the shame, to disclose your stories. And it is
a survivor's choice when they disclose, and just because they
keep something to themselves, because that's a huge, huge thing,
you know what I mean, it's no small thing, and
it takes I forgot I was saying, God her thought
because it's not mad, but uh, it's their right to
disclose when they're ready to disclose. And sometimes all it
takes is one person to disclose and the rest of
the survivors come forward with their stories, which is what
happened here. It's what happened here, and it so happens
all the time, and so it's embarrassing, honestly, if you're saying, oh,
there is what that was his accomplice, No, she was
abused by him. Someone left to comment saying, what if
she's like Gloria Trevi And I'm like, first, like, it
is way too early, Like what is why is that
your first thought to blame a woman when the man
who abused her and others is the person who's it
wrong here? Right? Other disturbing comments I saw is people
saying that this was a part of a conspiracy to
distract from the Epstein Files. Yeah, and it's like, stop
making everything about the Epstein Files. I'm sorry, but like,
but also, this is the same situation of uncontrolled, unfettered patriarchy,
unfettered toxic masculinity, masculinity un I don't know, like unhinged
men who who are in control and thrive off that
control and abuse of others. Yeah, they're like one side
of the same coin. Yeah, exactly. And so like the
I think, why why I wanted to share all the
context before is because it's going to establish a long pattern.
This isn't just a distraction. This isn't why are they
coming out now with this? What is behind this? Like yeah,
please stop and like think and yeah, so we're not
getting into like the UfW strikes or the betrayal of
Larry Itlong and the Filipino farm workers. That's the tip
of the iceberg when it comes to Sasa Chavis. We
did go way deeper in that five part episode series
on Estonia's Unknown, but I feel like now at this
point in time, this has been well known that the
Filipino farm workers were betrayed. Yeah, and especially Larry iong So.
Dolores Werta was one of Sasa Chavas's earliest and most
loyal supporters, probably second only to his wife, Helen Chaves.
Dolors Werta and Sesa Chaves knew each other from CSOU,
another organization in California. They both worked there. It was
like a community organizing organ type of place. Again, we
talked to way more about it in Estonia's a known
and in many ways she was like him, dedicated to
the cause, much to the detriment of her own personal relationships,
children included. The cause came first, and this culture of
the cause coming first at all costs was part of
the culture that was created in the UfW to have
it run like a cult under a Sasa Chavis like.
I'm sure that's not the case today, but that is
the atmosphere that he created exactly exactly, And so she
was a dedicated worker, like beyond dedicated. She spoke up
when she had thoughts, when she needed to have her voice,
she spoke up, which, like a lot of men were
not used to, including Sa sad Chavis and like a
lot of times he would address his issues with her
in private, but he occasionally like burst out her in
anger in public in front of everyone. During one meeting,
he yelled at her, I don't give a damn what
you think or anyone thinks. I'm going to run it
the way I want to run it. And if you
don't like it, too bad, get out. I don't want
to argue with you. If you don't want to take
orders from me, then get out. I've had it. And
those who were the closest to him were super used
to outbursts from him like that. This is a super
regular thing he did, and says chav is also like
to be in control, even in like situations where like
you kind of have to let control go. He didn't
like he controlled everything, and that included like everything in
the UfW everything, and the UfW is a United for Workers.
I don't know if we said already, but in case
anyone doesn't know. One of the ways he maintained control
in the UfW was to go through a purging of
union members and keeping a very very tight inner circle,
which the inner circle happened to be almost only anglow
at one point during the year of the union, he
had like one Mexican American labor in his inner circle,
and eventually that person was purged as well. And purging
the purgings or like the kicking out of members. It
was always public and humiliating for those that he fired.
Speaker 2: It was like a humiliation.
Speaker 1: Ritual to maintain power and control, as is common in colts. Exactly,
at some point when the famous grape strikes that we
all know, when those began, he announced that he was
going to he was going to establish lap Pass, which
was a compound. It would serve as a spiritual retreat
and isolated place for him and the farm workers. And
Lapass played a big part in the new allegations that
we will talk about, because yeah, there was a reason
he wanted to be isolated, right yeah. And I think
any moment, any moment you get a compound in any that's.
Speaker 2: Just a red flag all around. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he had this office called forty acres, but
forty acres wasn't enough, and that's when they announced LAPAs
and he died before the fall the other thing could happen.
But after LAPAs, he also wanted this other like even
more isolated, yeah, called Los Menos. Do you remember that
loose menos Yah? Yeah, yeah, But LAPAs did happen, and
over time, more and more farm worker families moved to
LAPAs and Lapaz was yeah, out of the way, it
was in the mountains. In the fall of nineteen seventy four,
so such Iris was touring Europe to gain support for
the boycott of different products that was happening, so like
lettuce was one of them that was happening during this
time period. And so in this Europe tour, he even
got to meet the Pope and he talked with the
Pope about the plight of the farm workers, and it
was like a Catholic boy's dream come true, this meeting
the pope. Of course, because we're not going to go
into a hero. But one of the things that he
did a lot was like use like religious imagery and
like Catholic sacrifice to strengthen the cause.
Speaker 2: I guess you.
Speaker 1: Could say, yeah, yeah, which again we went into all
that like it is included fasting whenever they did like
those like super super long marches, like not wearing. It
also reminds me of like a high control group and
cult behavior because yes, fascine is like a thing in
religion which some would.
Speaker 2: Say it's also a high control group.
Speaker 1: But cults are very well known for also for I
don't know, weird eating habits is not the right thing,
but they basically they they deprived their members of sleep
and food in order to control them easier.
Speaker 2: And so this is like a similar thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And but he was doing it to make it
under the guise of Catholicism, yes, and to make himself
look like a martyr, which would give him like myth
making in real life. Like yeah, yeah, it's all part
of the same thing. It's a part of controlling his
image and how he wants people to see him. Yes, yes, exactly,
and so yeah, he got to meet the Pope. While
he was doing this, his cousin Manuel Chavez was back
home doing what some might call like very not Christian
like behavior, but some might actually see it as very
Christian type behavior, depending on what religion you are, I
guess anyway, So Sisa Chilvis over the years when this
happened nineteen seventy four, had already shared his sentiment on
undocumented workers, but it only got worse after the failure
of the letter strikes. He would say things like, quote,
if we can get the illegals out of California, we
will win the strike overnight end quote, which the strike
wasn't going well, he would immediately blame undocumented workers. Yeah,
and it wasn't their fault, like part of it. Like,
I think what was missing here was thinking like who
is explaining the who is the one wanting.
Speaker 2: To pay them less? Who's offering this? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean this is just a punching down type of attitude,
like instead of being at the people in power, you're
mad at the people being taken advantage of and in
a more vulnerable position than yourself.
Speaker 2: Right, right.
Speaker 1: And I've actually been seeing so now that all of
this has surfaced about Caesar and Travis, people are talking
about all his other issues, one of those issues.
Speaker 2: Being what you're talking about right now.
Speaker 1: His xenophobic and anti undocumented immigrant or farm worker beliefs.
And I'm still seeing people defending him or like minimizing it.
Oh no, No, his issue wasn't that they were legals
first of all. Yeah, it was because it wasn't as fuck,
it was that they were crossing the picket line. And
it's like, okay, he was met at the wrong people though,
and it doesn't mean he was right. And people are
still defending this, trying to justify it. Oh, they were
messing with the strikes, and I'm like, at the end
of the day, it doesn't matter. He was xenophobic. He
was anti immigrant, anti undocumented people, and that's wrong. Yeah,
and of sentence like no further justification, Like stop trying
to like whitewash this.
Speaker 2: Man, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yes, or image launder I don't know, Like are when
we passed that at this point, you would think because
me discussing things are coming out and you're still like,
Pender's not the right worry. You're still like trying to
like twist this positive thing on him, right, And these
these anti immigrant sentiments have been going around for years
at this point, Oh, this is old, this is old news.
As they say, he would blame the undocumented workers when
where any strike wasn't going well. He would call them
slurs like wet backs and illegals. He often said that
CIA was involved in a conspiracy to bring in illegals
to undermine his union. This was not backed up by
any evidence, like we know that the FBI, and this
is still a dumb ass right wing belief that the government,
the Democrats, are bringing in undocumented people to bring their
numbers up, even though undocumented people can't vote. Democrats don't
actually like undocumented people either. Well they're not. They're not
pro immigration. In reality, they're pro capitalism, right, Yeah, everyone
is pro capitalism at the end of the day. But
also one of the biggest like reasons that the Filipino
farm workers and Larry Leong went or had clashes was
such ivist before he straight up like just betrayed them,
was because they had very communist views, which you, honestly
you need when you're doing labor. Yeah, organizing, like please,
this is bare minimum, Like communist is not a fucking
dirty word. Like stop stop, Like no, I'm not gonna
get into that run right now. But that was one
of the issues between them. But how are you going
to be a pro union, pro workers' rights and then
have this.
Speaker 2: Issue with communism as well?
Speaker 1: Like what do you? But that's that that's the thing,
says Chavis was upheld as this leader by the Democratic
Party because he wasn't he was very anti communists. He
was he was pro himself, yeah, and pro the power
that being in this position got him. Yes, yes, exactly,
and that was one of the strikes between the Filipino
form workers and him. He didn't and when he would
do the purges of the union, it would be like
one of the main reasons he would us is like, oh,
you're you're talking with communist newspapers, you're talking to communists organizations,
And sometimes it wasn't even true. And that's the excuse
he would use, was his excuse. Yeah, yeah, So yeah,
he thought that CIA was doing this and the FBI
were surveilling him, and they weren't because he was very
even though like in the beginning he was organized and
he was a threat to them, later on as the
years went by, they were like, no, we this is
someone we need.
Speaker 2: Like they didn't.
Speaker 1: They don't have a file, a long ass file like
they did on MLK or Yah Malcolm X. Like there
was no surveillance like he thought was happening, which made
him paranoid. But that was part of the power getting
to him, the paranoia and the purging of members. Yeah,
and that's why people have a lot of people have
viewed him as a sellout for a long time because
of that. Yes, sorry, I got a little off track there.
But with Cessa chaviss in Europe, that's where we left us,
and Manoil Chavis is back in California. And so with
Cessa Chavis's approval and with UfW union money, Manuil Chavis
set up his cousin, Manoid Chavis set up what he
called wetlines. These were patrols along the Arizona border done
by UfW members paying UfW members were patrolling. They were
like a private border patrol exactly. Their first their job
was to stop those trying to cross in search of
work because they thought they were gonna scab. And again,
they don't know the they couldn't possibly ever know the
reason why someone is crossing into Mexico or into the
US from Mexico. But they believed that everyone crossing was
gonna scab the current lemon strike that was going on,
and they frequently used violins to stop people. There were
incidents reported by the Yuma Daily Sun. Here's one headline.
A seventeen year old was beaten by the UfW patrol.
Five cars were torched, a lemon picker was attacked with
a blackjack. One twenty three year old Mexican was beaten
with a hose and robbed by three men. Two men
were beaten and their border crossing cards were stolen. They
were allowed to cross with these border crossing cards. Another
man was found hiding in a bush naked. He had
been taken from the levengrove, beaten and dumped by the border.
This is a UfW doing all this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Two men were beaten, one of them had burns on
the sole of his feet and they had been thrown
in the river. The reports by Mexican newspapers were much worse.
There were daily fire bombs placed under cars, Houses were
set on fire again, all allegedly being done by the
UfW wetline patrols. A month into these patrols there were
thirty seven confirmed beatings. Latribuna released pictures of victims who
were beaten by Sessa chavistas is what they were calling them.
It was uncovered that the UfW had bribed officials in
San Luis to let them do this, to not get
them in trouble for doing all the things they were
doing at the border and sometimes into Mexico. The Confederation
of Mexican Workers, who used to work with Manuel Chavis
the UfW and supported their efforts. They broke all ties
to the uf W over this. They called the wet
lines a campaign of terror and even cited that some
Mexicans had been drowned or castrated wow during WE patrolling.
When he was told about these incidents, Sasa Chavis said
it wasn't true and that people were just saying this
to undermine the union. His closest supporters believed him, of course,
despite an investigation in Mexico that proved that police had
been bribed by the uf W. It was so bad
that Bert Corona, another Chicano activists, stage of protests at
the Arizona Bord against the UfW wetlines. There's a recorded
conversation between Cesa and Manuel where he's telling Manuel that
they can bribe police to cut the costs of the
wetlines and bring down the number of uf W members
on patrol, proving that they were doing this. The Mexican
government even issued a warrant for Manuel Chavis's arrest, and
after El Malcriado, the UfW newspaper put out a piece
talking shit about the Mexican president, they actually had Manuel
Javis arrested for three days. He was in a Mexican
jail over all this, But through all this, Sasa Javis
continued to protect his cousin. When asked about all the
money that was being spent on the wet lines or
the checks that bounced, he told the rest of the
board members that computers has screwed up the account, lying
and like making up reasons. Yeah, he blamed someone else
for like this all the costs, which again we're going
to the wetlines. But he was like it was her
fault and fired her.
Speaker 2: In another humiliating.
Speaker 1: Firing, he berated people trying to cut ten and twenty
dollars here and there. Meanwhile, Minor Chavis got a bulank
check for the wetlines. Damn. At one point the wetline
operations were costing eighty thousand dollars a week. That is
a lot yep. The board kept silent on all of this,
and says Sad Chavis completely supported all of his cousins' work.
He even launched what was called or he called the
Illegals campaign. He said Sisad Chaves. He said Nixon on
board patrol weren't doing enough to keep illegals out, so
he would and so now the UfW was identifying illegal
immigrants and forcing the government to deport them.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Lise Eliza Hirsch Hirsh Eliza Hirsch, who was nineteen at
the time but had grown up in the Union. Her
parents had moved to Delano when she was twelve to
support the Union, but they had moved during the first
round of purchase that he had done. But she stayed
like they were. Her parents were perched. Yeah, her parents
were purged. They left uh Delano and she stayed living
with the Chavis family. She was nineteen. This just feels
wrong knowing we know exactly she was pretty in charge
of this illegals campaign and she didn't like the idea,
but she did was but she did what she was
told because she was a believer of Sessa Chavis and
this was all she knew. She had been raised in
the Union.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 1: She crafted a form and distributed it. This form was
called the Rapport on Illegal Farm Labor Activity. It had
a spot for where a person's name would go, where
the closest Border Patrol office would go, the worker's home address,
the grower's name, so like the firm owner their name,
the names of those who had given this illegal and
I'm using illegal in quotation marks this illegal worker food,
transportation and housing. This is like the most right wing
thing you could ever Yes, and how they had crossed yeah, wow,
and what they earned. The National Lawyer's Guild, who had
previously supplied entrants to the union, refused to participate in
this illegal campaign. It's like people had problems with this
from the beginning as it was happening.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: This cost as such, I was to break all ties
with them and fire all the current interns. And he
also like believed that people needed to work for free,
like they couldn't be for the cause if and expect
a paycheck. This is a quote from the book that
it was my source for all of this, which is
called The Crusades of Sasa Chavis by Miriam Powell. So
Whereta supported the campaign, but suggested they changed the terminology
because some people found the words went back and illegal offensive.
She said, the people themselves aren't illegal, their action of
being in this country may be illegal. When she said this,
Chavis turned on where that angrily. No, a spade's a spade,
he said, you guys get these hang ups. Goddamn it,
how do we build a union? They're wets, you know,
they're wets and let's go after them and quote and
just like one more thing that really emphasizes how culty
all this was at some point since such I always
hurt his back and he believed that it was Oh,
he was also very into like alternative therapies, which we
talked about in those five episodes. We went in deep
on how he got, like supporters of the union to
buy him very expensive like spas. Oh yeah, that they
had a place into Lapasse because he needed it. Things
like that LAPAs itself was paid for by a supporter
of the union who thought they were supporting like the
union and the fight for workers right, and it was
like a Hollywood someone I don't remember their name, it's
in those episodes, but that's who paid for who bought lapass.
So yeah, one more thing to emphasize the culty elements
in the w At some point, has such I always
hurt his back and he believed it was related to
his diet. He blamed Mexican food for being so unhealthy
and became strictly vegetarian. And also he could have nothing processed.
So Helen and the kids ate traditional Mexican food and
he didn't, and so she had to make him like
a separate meal every time, and he was very like,
very vocal about his diet and how it helped his back,
and so his most loyal followers adopted the same diet,
which included a carried juice regime. Yeah, that's that's cold
team regimen. I think it was to say, not regime,
probably carry juice regimen.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He would say things like I wouldn't eat my dog,
and cows are just like them. And this made him
or this cemented his good person image that the followers
had of him, and others were like, just stop, like
what are you doing? Stop like Larry, Larry couldn't stand this,
like this kind of shit that he did to make
himself look holier than that. But this is what abusers do, right,
They cultivate these images as community leaders, as people fighting
for others rights, so that when allegations and disclosures come out,
people would be like, oh, they would never do that,
you know, like they purposely cultivate these images.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: During a meeting with some teamsters, one union leader told
them to just act like a union leader and not
a saint, saying, quote, get upop your fucking knees. Let's
not make it a cause, let's make it a fucking union.
We'll buy unie pads if you want to fight a
holy war and quote. They were tired of his shit,
and poor Larry, Larry was so tired of his shit,
saysar Chavis started another purge of members that became known
as the Monday Night Massacre because that's how many people
were kicked out. This was April fourth, nineteen seventy seven.
After kicking these members out in this specific purge, this
was all at LAPAs, and these people were living at LAPAs.
He kicked them out of LAPAs where they lived. He
refused to let them use the phone, and they had
no way to contact anyone for help after they were
kicked out like this was on purpose. Yeah, it was
after this specific purging that the union entered a new chapter, saysar.
Chavis told the board the union needed drastic change and
that they needed to be a movement or a union,
but not both. And in February nineteen seventy seven, he
called the board meeting at one of Synanon's compounds. And
for those that don't know, Synanon is a cult and
it was also the predecessor. It started at one of
the first were they called teen trouble teens. Trouble teen.
Speaker 2: It basically pioneered the trouble teen industry.
Speaker 1: And one of the most vile schools ever Elon.
Speaker 2: E. L a n.
Speaker 1: Not Elon Musk, but Elon the Elon School. Yeah, it's
unclear to me exactly how Sasad Tavis and Charles Dietrich,
the leader of Synernon, became friends. But the cult, it
was a cult before it was before the cult became
known as a cult, like before it was public. They
started out like as a medical organization, supposedly like a
healthcare organization, and Synnon had clinics throughout California, and one
of the clinics was very close to all the UfW
workers and members and they would go to the Synnon
clinic for help. And so maybe through there it was
that Tessa Travis and Charles Ddrich became connected. I honestly
couldn't find how they came to know each other. But yeah,
we already described Synernon a little bit. But yes, it's
a cult. They originally began as Tender Loving Care and
it was a religious movement founded in nineteen fifty eight
by Charles E. Chuck Diedrich Senior in Santa Monica, California.
Originally established as a drug rehabilitation program, Cynnon developed into
an alternate community centered on group truth telling sessions that
became known as the Synonyon Game, a form of attack
therapy Cynernon was. By the time it was all public
and known, Cinnanon was said to be one of the
most dangerous and violin goals America had ever seen. Synnon
disbanded in nineteen ninety one after several members were convicted
of offenses including financial miss deeds, evidence tamporing, terrorism, and
attempted murder. And so it's very possible that the UfW
members that were just going to clinic, no, it was
a cult. Yeah. The only one who would have been
more aware of how controlled Synanon was would be Sasa Chavis,
who kept in touch with the leader, Charles Diedrich. He
looked up to him. He felt that Chuck was able
to take Synonyon to the next level, something he aspired
to do with the UfW. A cult was the next level.
Speaker 2: He admired his cult leadership. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Charles told Cesar that in order for him to
do the same, he needed to weed out those who
resist change. And he told them that one thing was
instrumental to cynern On and to maintain an order in
the cult. This never said the word cold, but in
Synon maintaining order in syn and On. And that thing
was the game. And the game was presented as group therapy.
In it, the players all accused one another of their wrongdoings,
and it would often be exaggerated. One person was called
out and then others would join. The person escaped this
yelling being by accusing someone else. Then everyone would gang
up on that person. Supposedly it was to correct faults
and miscommunications, but it was really another a humiliation ritual. Yeah,
and we already mentioned this, but I had it written
down here in my notes. But if you know anything
about the trouble team industry, then you've probably heard about
the Elon school which used the game and their abuse.
And yes, they learned it from Synnon. And so Sister
Chavis took the board of the UfW to the newest
Synonym compound. They had not been debriefed on what was
about to happen. Only Charles Ddrich and the Synanon members knew.
The board members they had different plans. They Marshall Gantz,
who we talked more about him in the five episodes.
Any story asn't known, but he was one of the
early early members of the UfW. He wanted to talk
about focusing on vegetable workers in Salinas and the Imperial Valley.
Elisel Medina wanted to talk about the vineyards in Oxnard.
Like you got the idea. They thought they were gonna
it was gonna be a regular meeting once they all gathered.
They were then confused when Sesar Chavis said he wasn't
there to talk about elections, contracts, nothing. They weren't there
to talk about the union's philosophy. They were going to
learn from the Synanon family and they were going to
learn the game. He told them that it was time
to decide were they a movement or were they a union,
because they needed to decide if they would run on
volunteer work as a movement or pay wages as a union.
But they couldn't afford it. He wanted people to work
for free. Yeah, and some people like, I don't know
what does revere mean? Like does that like celebrate Yeah, yeah,
kind of okay, some people Revere that says Chivis was
such a humble man who did all this for free,
basically for lowest costs possible, because he wanted to appear
like a murder Yeah, because he didn't want to pay anyone.
Like it wasn't because it wasn't because he cared.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so here he told them like, with what's it
going to be or with a movement who has volunteers
or are we a union who pays wages and members?
Like uh Cohen who was another longtime member of the
UfW and Richard Chavis, which is his brother. They were like,
we need to pay people, come on, yeah, and says
Chavis was completely opposed. He wouldn't hear it. He told
him if they didn't get their shit together and become
a movement, he would now be part of it. And
then he told them he was going to bring the
game back to Lapasse and so they needed to learn
it and they would watch the Synanon members do the
game and then they were invited to join. And so
when they were invited to join and they had to
like yell at each other, his brother was like what
the fuck and walked out. He's like this is no
for me. Yeah, yeah, like I can't do this. After
the game, Charles spent two hours explaining how he scored
everyone during the game and that he would train the
twelve UfW members, says Chavez said that everyone who moved
into Lapasse after March first, nineteen seventy seven had to
participate in the game. None of the members liked it,
but no one objected to it except Richard Chavis. After
they left the Synnon compound, Chaves wrote a letter to
Charles ddrich about how he deeply admired him and what
he was doing with Synanon the cult. Charles even proposed
opening a Synanon run compound for the US Wow, which
it didn't actually happen, but he proposed it the game
though that did happen at LAPAs, since Javis handpicked the
eleven that would be trained in the game, and he
chose purposely who he thought was the most loyal, who
he could groom into becoming more loyal and more faithful.
Among them was his own son, Paul Chavis, his son
in law, his niece, Richard Javis's daughter, one of the
rodes Werta's kids, and during the first game at LAPAs,
they gained up on Juaquin Murhiya, who is the brother
of one of these we'll get into the allegations, but
he's the brother of Anna Murhiya. So they gained up
on Jaquin Murhia, who had just gotten into college, and
this is from the book about when they gained up
on him during the game. After this first session, more
were trained and there were different games every weekend.
Speaker 2: It got to the.
Speaker 1: Point where there was a wait list for twelve people, sorry,
a weight list for people, and there were different games
happening at the same time from nine to twelve on Sundays,
the game started and we got on him, Chavis recounted
to the executive board. Boy did he open up. He
broke down and cried. Juaquin quit school and went to
work full time in the UfW accounting department. It works
real nice, Chavis said. Matt Ran cited Joaquin's desicion approvingly
as testimony to the power of the thoughts and feelings
of their peers when expressed in the game. So they
were like, yeah, the game works. But yeah, they coerced
Juaquin with he had to quitting college and working for
the DFW basically for free. So then board meetings started
to get more and more tense, taking the tone of
the game on. It wasn't the game, it was a
board meeting, but the board meetings became like the game.
During every meeting there was a fight between Susan Chavis
and Dolores Berda Staraty wanting to quit.
Speaker 2: Says O.
Speaker 1: Chavis talked less about farm workers and was more preoccupied
with the game who he could put in the game
to find out something about them, like that was his preoccupation,
not the farm workers. He would also talk about how
he didn't trust farm workers that meeting because they only
cared at meetings because they only cared about money, which
like this was the whole point for them to fight
for livable wages. Yeah, for their rights. You're supposed to
be like a work union, right, But because people and
all of my comments always say, well he cared about
the farm workers, he didn't.
Speaker 2: No, he didn't.
Speaker 1: No. He I think maybe in the beginning he did,
but the power got to him by the end, he didn't.
This is evidence of that. He would openly talk about
how he didn't trust farm workers, yeah, because they only
cared about money, And then he would go in public
at all these events and talk about how important farm
workers were and how they were the movement.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He at some point he would in these meetings talk
about how he didn't want the movement to be about
farm workers anymore, which was the whole point of the
UfW right United farm Workers. It's in the name, bitch, Yeah,
And he wanted it to be a religious movement, in
other words.
Speaker 2: His cult, his own personal cult. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so at first that game was only played like
once on Sundays, then they blocked out half of Sunday
for the game. Then they added on the game on
Wednesday evenings. Hundreds were participating, and Sayesa Javis kept a
list of the few dozen who still refused, which yeah,
which included Richard Chavis, and says Sa Chavis to tell
Richard like, aren't you part of the community. This is
part of the community. And Richard was like, I don't
want this. And Savis would start naming communities to say
like you need to get in line because it is
this is a community, and he would name other cults.
Oh my god, he's telling her himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Jim Drake, another very very long time us W supporter
and member from like the beginning, he would tell to
such Ibs that it scares him. When he started mentioning
all those losers, meaning other cult leaders. Yeah, yeah, including
center On. He's like, this scares me. Why are you
talking about the Basically that was him, Yeah, and that
was a quote from Yeah. So many were worrying about
to such Javis. But those two voice concerns were kicked out,
and so the most loyal support or as they stayed
and this kept on happening, and then it got worse
in nineteen seventy seven. In the summer of nineteen seventy seven,
says such I was was invited to the Philippines by
Ferdinand Marcos. A dictator. Yeah, a straight up dictator. Like
there's no way, there's no ifs and or butts about it.
This was a dictator, yes, And so the UfW was
like always losing Filipino workers. One person had advised him
to make this trip and that he would arrange everything,
and the board told him, like this was a bad idea.
It was already known that the Marcus regime was involved
in human rights violations, but says such I was one anyway,
and when he returned, says such I was praised the
Marcos regime. He was amazed by Marshall law, and he
applauded the president. He would love Bugle and Trump. Yeah,
when there was rightfully so criticism about this, says her,
Chavis doubled down.
Speaker 2: Of course, he didn't.
Speaker 1: During a meeting with hundreds of people, he announced that
he didn't praise martial law, but he supported the president.
But it's like that's the same thing. And then he
doubled down more and said that he didn't see any
human rights violated of courtured or abuse when he was there.
When the attention for the shit he said was too negative,
he retreated into LAPAs. That's what Lapasse was for his
isolated retreatment place. It got so bad that people who
had been supportive of him since the beginning were beginning
to resign. And there's like, there's so many names, over
half the lawyers, Elisel Medina, even Helen Chaves. His wife
was over it. She moved out of Lapass for many reasons,
but one of them was Asa said Chavis was a
serial cheater. One day she was filling in for his
secretary and she found a love letter written to Sasa
Chavis by an eighteen year old. Oh my god, he
was like almost fifty at this point. Yeah, and when
I told you this and he started asn't known we
were like she was eighteen, he was forty something, almost fifty.
He's the leader of the union. She's a farm worker.
The power and balance is already like so obvious. But
if she was eighteen, like, who's to say there wasn't
any younger survivors of his and look and like how
soon that started?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when Helen Chavis saw this letter by an eighteen
year old, she had asked the secretary if there had
been other letters, but the secretary said nothing because they
all kept his secrets. Yeah, this is how this is
the environment, the atmosphere, he said. And you'd think that
the mass quitting would be a wake up call, but
Sasa Chavis's cult like behavior only worsened. He even in
this point, like in this time period, took a six
day mind control class in la and then announced that
he could heal people with his hands.
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't know how you get to that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this stuff has all been public, but like
you had to look for it. Yeah, the stuff like
that we just shared. But now these allegations that are
worse have become super public. There's like no hiding how
terrible Tessa Chavis is. And before I share the new allegations,
I did want to share a story that I saw
from someone that Carlon and I both follow. It was
a story on their Instagram. She is by Waves on Instagram,
but she wrote quote seeing too many people immense specific
gleefully sharing Chavist allegations and saying shit like about time.
Finally he's canceled, citing Chavis's anti immigration history, how he
solved out fellow Filipino farm workers, et cetera. And while
that is all true, I'm going to need y'all to stop.
I see this every time a man, especially a powerful,
rich and well known man, is outed as an abuser,
people using survivors as a gotcha to validate their own
public grievances with an abuser. Survivors pain and trauma minimized
and treated as entertainment and collateral damage. Survivors don't exist
to make men feel better about not being like other men.
If the first thing out of your mouth when stories
of abuse come to light isn't acknology and century and survivors,
you're making light of abuse and perpetuating rape culture for GoF. Okay,
I'm so glad you shared that, because that was another
thing I had didn't say in the beginning of the episode,
but I wanted to mention that it's basically just to
echo what she said that yeah, too many times. And
it's the same issue I have with the Epstein Files, right,
like people are centering all the crazy conspiracies they're making
up and all the stuff, and not centering the survivors,
and like it doesn't matter, Like we're you know, context
about Desir travist just so that people know about what
else was out there before these allegations came out. But
it's not to say, oh, see, we were right, We're vindicated.
Like we all grew up learning about Seth Javis and
viewing him as a hero, and everyone in their own
at different times learned the reality about him, right, So
it's not I think a time for us to be like, see,
we were right. We even hater since day one, you know,
Like that's not the point of this, Like we should
be centering survivors and and we should be glad that
they came out and they shared their stories, you know
what I mean, Like it doesn't matter. It doesn't take
away from the movement. If anything, it goes to show
that we should not be putting these men on pedestals ever, right,
Like the face of the movement should have never been
one person. Yeah. And when you let it be one person,
then especially a man like that, power gets to their head.
They already have the power of machismo and pittriarchy. Imagine, yeah,
then imagine me abused as a hero like all that
much more power to take advantage of girls and women, right, exactly, exactly,
And so The New York Times released their investigation today
at the Timber Recording March eighteen, twenty twenty six. They
had been working on this since twenty twenty one, damn
yeah years. The reporters were Many Fernandez and Sarah Hurtz.
They interviewed several women who for the first time told
their stories. But yesterday before this came out, so March seventeenth,
do the UfW announced that they were canceling to such
Chavs Day celebrations due to troubling allegations and like nobody
knew what these were, for the story wouldn't come out, Yeah,
And so they canceled preemptively these celebrations, and then The
New York Times dropped this. So Anna Murhia and Debra Rojas,
they're both sixty six now, but they were but when
they were teens, they were both abused by Sasa Chavis.
He abused them both for years from nineteen seventy two
to nineteen seventy seven. Both of them were part of
the families who had moved to La Pass to the compound.
Both had known so Such Chavis since the since they
were children, both had marched alongside him. The reporters also
interviewed Doloresuerta, who told them in an interview for the
first time ever she made this public that he he
sexually assaulted her too, and that resulted in pregnancies.
Speaker 2: Just a lot.
Speaker 1: It is, it is she held that secret for sixty years.
Speaker 2: Wait can we share her statement?
Speaker 1: I have it in here later. Oh okay, okay, yeah.
Anam Murhia and Debra Rojas also held their secrets for years,
but this was like all too much for specifically Anna
when she learned that a street very close to her
home Bakersfield was in the process of being renamed after
her abuser, and they both went on to tell The
New York Times that if he felt like a shadow,
that they couldn't escape. I can only imagine because those
of us who had no personal experience with this man
but know about how horrible he was, felt like that too.
You know what I mean, like, oh my god, not
fucking this day again or not, you know, him being
celebrated again.
Speaker 2: Imagine being abused by him and seeing him.
Speaker 1: Everywhere, Yeah, murals, streets, same as for him, schools, schools, parks,
mm hmm. For Anna, the abuse began when she was thirteen,
Oh my god, but the grooming had been going on
for a while by then, back to when she was
eight or nine. Her family moved to the compound Lapasse
in nineteen seventy one, and this is when, says her,
Chavis started asking Anna for help in random little things,
dictating letters or to work the phone at the compound's
phone switchboard. This was something that made her proud, like, oh,
she's helping in the movement, she's helping him, and with
his status among the UfW like, of course, it made
her proud. And then so this was around from like
eleven to twelve is when she was doing this extra
little work here and then having like one on one
times with is R. Chavis under the guise of doing
this work. But when she was thirteen, he began to
her into his office and I believe we mentioned this
in the five episodes we did in Estonia as a
known but he was obsessed with alternate healing therapies and
so this, this alternative medicine was like another tool in
his fuming because he would have Anna laid down either
on his desk or the yoga mat, and then began
to show her different pressure points. And then this escalated.
It's like any excuse to well, it'screw me yeah, yeah, yeah,
and like trigger content warning for a little bit like
of the I'm not going into details details, but this
is disturbing, so content warning for rape. But the first
time that this went from showing her a little pressure points,
like little touching here and there. The first time it escalated,
he had called her into that same office that she
had been in many different occasions, but this time when
he her onto the yoga mat, he kissed her and
then he pulled her pants down. After he was done,
he told her not to tell anyone because everyone else
would get jealous. And this went out for years, he
took her on tour with him to different marches and events.
There's one really famous picture from the one thousand Mile
March that happened in the summer of nineteen seventy five.
In this picture, Anna is marching nextus as her Javis.
By this point she was fifteen, and it was after
this march that she had walked into the kitchen and
saw him kissing another woman, and she felt betrayed. She
was like actively being abused by him, and enter the
guise of she was the only one, which like teens,
like no one has when there's someone is being abused.
They don't have the language to understand what's happening, you know,
much less a teenager who probably has doesn't have any
experience in a relationship. And this is not a relationship, mind, dude,
This is like abuse. But this is the only example
of something like that she had, so of course she
feels that way. Yeah, yeah, And so after this moment
he sought her out less and less until he stopped completely.
And about this, she told The New York Times quote,
I felt very alone. I had zero support end quote.
She left LAPAs at nineteen and fell into heroin addiction.
She returned to Lapaz, hoping that such Avis could help her,
but when she returned, he called her into the office
in a room full of men and told her she
was bringing drugs into the community and that she needed
to leave. And like, this is a he could have
told her by herself, no, no, because he needed to
humiliate her as well. Exactly, this is how the purgings
and the kicking people out. It was always done this way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When a family member asked her what happened, she told
family member, quote, he doesn't need me anymore. I'm grown up.
He told me to get out.
Speaker 2: End quote. So sad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: For years she felt like she would have been blamed
for her abuse, and she told no one, though she
did tell a few family members in the nineteen eighties,
like three or four different family members from what I
read in the New York Times article, but they couldn't
get them to like talk more about this. The other
person she did confide in who she knew she could
trust was de Drocas. Debra's family moved to La pass
in nineteen seventy two when she was twelve, and in
that same year, says her job as asked her into
his office locked the door, asked her about school and books,
and when she was admiring his bookshelves, he touched her
for the first time. She was shocked and confused. That
was their first encounter, but like Anna, it went on
for years. He would call her house talk about Union
stuff with her dad and then he would ask her
dad to put her on the phone and he then
invited her also to the one thousand mile March. At
this point she was fifteen. Her parents were skeptical about
letting her go, but said such Jabas insisted that Deborah
would be safe, and of course he was this revered
leader among them, Like they were going.
Speaker 2: To trust him. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He called and called and called as telling them to
let her go to the march. And because of that
culture he had created within the uf W, because of
his status within the uf W, her parents just wanted
to be on his good side. They thought he was
a good person. Yeah, and they said yes, they loved
sasuch Javis. They admired such Javis. Everyone did.
Speaker 2: So they believed that their daughter would be safe. So
she went.
Speaker 1: And during that march in August, he like randomly told her,
you're going home for a week, and she was like
sad and confused. She thought she was in trouble, and
when she was waiting at the bus stop to go
back home for a week, he showed up in a
car with one of his bodyguards to pick her up,
and they drove to a motel on Highway ninety nine,
and in this motel was the first time he raped her. Hello, Hello,
this is Christina from the future. There's one thing I
forgot to mention here, but when this happened, he had
a gun on him that she saw him place on
the dresser before the assault, and that just adds another
level of coercion that that was already there, right, and
another thing to fear when I just wanted to make
sure that everyone had that context and to not leave
it out as well. Okay, back to the episode. Oh
my god, So he made her feel like he was
like abandoning her and making her go home, then picked
her up in the state of emotional I don't know, yeah, despair,
and then took advantage of her. Yeah, And he was
with one of his bodyguards when he picked her up,
So that's at least one other person that knew that
knew exactly after this though, after this moment and after
the march was over, he grew more and more distant
and told her. Deborah told Debra that he needed to
go back to his wife, and like Anna, Deborah told
a very few select family members about what happened to her,
but not until the nineteen nineties. Another daughter of a
union member also came forward, Esmerada Lopez, and this is
years after Debra and Anna's.
Speaker 2: Abuse had taken place.
Speaker 1: At LAPAs eighty eight, Esmeerda was selected to go on
and out of state speaking tour in Michigan with Sasa Chabas.
After the event, they drove to his camper that was
attached to a pickup truck and there they chatted and
talked about the event. They were sitting on the bed
in the camper. When they were talking, while sitting on
the bed, he pointed to a street sign that was
named after him outside and told Esmerada that if she
slept with him, something could be named after her. Oh
my god, she was nineteen and he was sixty one.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: She was shaken and she rebuffed him, and after that
he didn't say anything, and she called her mom right
away and told her that she needed to come home.
When her mom asked what happened. She told her mom
quote says Sar Chabas.
Speaker 2: Is just a man.
Speaker 1: End quote, Oh my god, the chils I just got
because that's literally that's how I feel about this whole thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Her mom, Cynthia Bell, completely understood when her daughter said,
Sesar Javis is just a man. Her mom is seventy
five now, and she recalls sexual advances from Cesar Javis
when she was in her early twenties in the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: They were dancing at some event, like a union event,
and he told her quote, I see you sometimes like
one of my daughters, but then I get these other feelings.
Speaker 2: End quote.
Speaker 1: And ten months after Esmeralda rebuffed him, she was fired
from her job at the Union health care clinic. And
then today also so the New York Times mentioned Dolores
Wortha saying that she was also assaulted. And there's like
a little bit of details in the New York Times
article along with the other three accounts. But then do
Lotus Werta released her own statement, which we will read.
I am nearly ninety six years old and for the
last sixty years have kept a secret because I believe
that exposing the truth would hurt the farm worker movement.
I have spent my entire life fighting for I have
encouraged people to always use their voice. Following the New
York Times multi year investigation into sexual misconduct by Soasar Chavis,
I can no longer stay silent and must share my
own experiences. As a young mother in the nineteen sixties,
I experienced two separate sexual encounters with Sessad. The first time,
I was manipulated and pressured into having sex with him,
and I didn't feel I could say no because he
was someone I admired, my boss and the leader of
the movement. I had already devoted years of my life too.
The second time, I was forced against my will and
in an environment where I felt trapped. I had experienced
abuse and sexual violence before, and I convinced myself these
were incidents that I had to endure alone and in secret.
Both sexual encounters we was Sasad le to pregnancies. I
chose to keep my pregnancies secret, and after the children
were born, I arranged for them to be raised by
other families that could give them stable lives. Over the years,
I have been fortunate to develop a deep relationship with
these children, who are now close to my other children,
their siblings. But even then, no one knew the truth,
the full truth about how they were conceived until just
a few weeks ago. I carried the secret for as
long as I did because building the movement and securing
farm worker rights was my life's work. The formation of
a union was the only vehicle to accomplish and secure
those rights, and I wasn't going to let Sessat or
anyone else get in the way. I channeled everything into
advocating on behalf of millions of farm workers and others
who were suffering and deserved equal rights. I have never
identified myself as a victim, but I now understand that
I am a survivor of violence, of sexual abuse, of
domineering men who saw me and other women as proper
or things to control. I am telling my story because
The New York Times has indicated that I was not
the only one. There were others. Women are coming forward
sharing that they were sexually abused and assaulted by Sasad
when they were girls and teenagers. The knowledge that he
hurt young girls sickens me. My heart aches for everyone
who suffered alone and in silence for years. There are
no words strong enough to condemn those deplorable actions that
he did. Says, thus actions do not reflect the values
of our community and our movement. The farm worker movement
has always been bigger and far more important than any
one individual. Says that's actions do not diminish the permanent
improvement to achieve for farm workers with the help of
thousands of people. We must continue to engage and support
our community, which needs advocacy and activism now more than ever.
I will continue my commitments to workers, as well as
my commitment to women's rights, to make sure we have
a voice and that our communities are treated with dignity
and given the equity that they have so long been denied.
I have kept the secret long enough. My silence ends here.
If you are a survivor, or if you have been
impacted by any type of flectional violence, please visit the
lottesport the Foundation website, where you will find a list.
Speaker 2: Of resources for support. And that was her statement. I
need a moment to collect myself.
Speaker 1: Yes, earlier, earlier, when I read her statement, it made
me toirit, but like it didn't make me cry, but
I feel like it's like triggering so much for me
right now, because I mean, how many women and girls
and children have to be abused by men and remained
silent for years and years and years, And how many
women out to endure workplace sexual harassment and violence and assault?
And how many women do we know personally that are
survivors of abuse as children or as women by men?
Because it's always a fucking man, and yet no man
ever stand up for women, you know what I mean? Right?
And like, although I didn't, I didn't want to talk
about a man during women's history months, this is part
of it because the culture of patriarchy, this patriarchal culture, yeah,
has given way to all of this. It's the reason
he was able to get away with us for so long. Yeah,
And the reason why the women didn't feel like they
could say anything, because what is the first move to
blame the women themselves? And people are doing it right now,
Like we have like a one year old video just
talking about the immigration stuff, like s Se Travis and
I posted that today on Instagram and immediately someone mentioned,
like why did we that say?
Speaker 2: Signing it for so long?
Speaker 1: She was how much does she know? And she's not
saying she probably knew about this and she was just
protecting him, and it's like she was assaulted. What are
you talking about. Yeah, she's like a survivor herself of this,
and it's always put on the women's shoulders. It's the
same thing people are saying about the epsin survivors, the
same thing they said about our killing survivors. Literally everyone,
it's like, oh, why didn't they say say something sooner?
They let other women be abused? No, our culture they
were scared or rape culture enables this. Yeah, because but
also I feel like on top of like already this
country's rape culture, Mexico's machismo culture, like putting those those
are huge factors. But then you have to keep in
mind the cult environment that the UfW was being ran in,
Like that's why we included all the context that we did.
They had this like unhealthy, unhealthy need to fight for
the cause. This is something that already had in her,
but they took advantage of that. They took advantage of
that completely says their child has took advantage of that,
and he fostered a cult environment. Like that's like straight up,
so of course people were afraid, but also men are
going to enable men. His big supporters were men. His
bodyguard knew when he dropped him off or when they
picked up one of the survivors writing, people knew, and
people defended him, just like it happens when you know you,
like a family member comes forward and then you're like
another family member is like, oh, so and so is
coming over. Don't wear any skirts?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, or if.
Speaker 1: She was really afraid of him, if he was really
hurting her, then why would she go and you know,
be playful with him or sitting near him or you
know what I mean? Like always it's always something yeah,
and it's just yeah, it's infreu eating. And this takes
into everything we've been saying about feminism and how I
don't know it needs to be accepted practiced.
Speaker 2: Like I think it needs to be practiced. Yeah.
Speaker 1: More people need to be feminists and realize that this
is not about one man, right, This is about a
culture that enables men like this to abuse women and children. Yeah,
and untold we see women and children as deserving of humanity, yeah, right,
because they're viewed as property. And that is one reason
why people like this find it so acceptable and easil
easy to abuse women and children because they're viewed as
property and not as full human beings like men are
you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly exactly and yeah,
oh actually no A couple more things. When these allegations
have were brought to light, and like obviously people flooded
to social media. People have been making posts like their
discourse has begun, right, like we sat at the top
of this episode or somewhere in the middle like that
whatever discourse that's gonna happen needs to center like the
survivors and their voices, which is not a lot of
like it's what I'm seeing is the opposite. Yeah, again
blaming calling this a conspiracy, saying that, oh right, when
farm workers are trying to fight against uh, their rights
being taken away, this comes out to like devalue but
their work or their union. But it's like sins such
Javis was one man. He is not the whole union. Yeah,
regardless of whatever Chavis has I mean, regardless of everything
so such Javis has done. This doesn't take away from
that the fact that farm workers need to be paid
like a again, he never did that alone, age, No,
he never did that alone.
Speaker 2: He never did.
Speaker 1: So that's like another thing I'm seeing that it's a conspiracy.
Other people are saying it's a conspiracy to take away
from the Epstein files, or like why now, why there
are the Times released this now They've been working on
this herve for years years. Yeah, and the other stuff
has been known, and there's there's never a wrong time
for survivors of sexual abuse to disclose their abuse. Yeah,
and the the right time is when they say it
like there's yeah, no other it's underbuds about it exactly exactly.
And so that's like another thing that I'm seeing that's
really off putting. Not everything revolves around the United States
and the Epstein files. Yeah. Plus, sorry to say it
just reminds me so back when I was training to
work at the net work to volunteer at organization that helps.
Now they're not so women focused, they're like more about
all survivors of sexual abuse and interpersonal violence. But back
then they were like a woman's like sheltered type place
and they helped survivors of rape. And so I was
training and one of the things I learned about is
the rampant sexual harassment and abuse that women migrant workers
in the field's face and all and this is it.
This is like the same thing that we're talking about now,
Like this has been going on forever, right back then
when sees their childs was doing it and the people
under him and every other supervisor out there know what
they call them, but you know what I mean, and
every other like man working next to their fellow peers
of women coworkers abusing them. And most of these women
were undocumented and they were afraid to report.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like just one more.
Speaker 1: Vulnerable you know, position that they're in, that another reason
that they don't report, Yes, And yeah, I think that's
like that's a good stopping point for this episode. But yeah,
like not everything is a distraction for something else. We
can hold many truths at the same time. We can
hold information and uphold survive right and believe them, Yeah,
and believe them, and yeah, let's stop like having this
culture where victims and survivors of sexual abuse can't come
forward because the reality is that nobody believes them.
Speaker 2: They are blamed.
Speaker 1: And if we didn't have this culture, these women would
have shared their truths longer ago. Yep, Like I can't
even imagine being ninety six. And finally, you know, sharing
your truth about that, like that's wild, right right. It's infuriating,
it really is. And that's why I was like crying,
like it's here's the anger and I'm about to cry again.
It just takes me back, okay, like years ago, and well,
well let's end in and I'll tell you.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I don't know how to like end this.
Speaker 1: Just fuck this rape culture, Fuck the patriarchy, believe survivors,
Thank you, yes.
Speaker 2: Goodbye, goodbye.
Speaker 1: Spooktaels is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited
by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen, and with the help
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Speaker 2: Stay as Spooky