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Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, This is Christina and Carmen and this is

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another episode of his Spooky Tales, a podcast for all

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things spooky, true crime, myths, legends in Latin America, or

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just you know Latino things in the US. This month,

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we said we were going to only do femicide cases. However,

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something very pressing has come up. Yeah, today, March eighteenth,

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twenty twenty sixth, at the time of recording, very dark

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allegations of sexual abuse have been made against Sasa Chavis.

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And we say allegations because like none of this is

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like legally confirmed in the eyes of the law, right,

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but there's like sixty people who corroborated this, like the

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New York Timessy. Yeah, they they went in deep in

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this report of THEIRS reporting of theirs. These allegations involved

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and Dolts Wertha herself. Before we get into that though,

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over at our history podcast East Dordias Unknown, which is

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always linked in the show notes. Last year we did

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a five part episode series on Tessa Chavs and we

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went in pretty deep in those episodes. Yeah, and I'm

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going to share a very condensed version of what we

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went through in those episodes right now before talking about

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the new allegations just for context, because I feel like

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this might be like a surprise for a lot of people,

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but there's a long pattern of like disturbing and violent

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behavior from him from Tasa Chavis, and so that's why

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we're sharing this condensed version of those episodes here. Because

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also I've seen some pretty disturbing comments, like one always

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blaming the women, right, especially dolo is Wertha right now. Yeah,

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I was very discuss said by some of the comments

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I've seen basically say well, what did she know?

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Speaker 2: And it's like she was abused.

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Speaker 1: You know how much bravery it takes because the message

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is like these comments like that for survivors of sexual

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abuse to come forward, for women to come forward, and

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it takes years, like for example, like people that are

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abuse as children, it takes them I don't remember the number,

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but it's like thirty twenty to thirty years to disclose

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what happened. And even as an adult, it takes so

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much time first to come to terms with yourself as

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to what happened, Like it takes people years because we're

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conditioned as a society in rape culture, right, so we're

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already conditioned for I guess I just abuse of children

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and women is normalized. So it takes already so much

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time for some survivors of sexual abuse to realize they

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were even sexual abused, so much time to overcome, work

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through the shame, to disclose your stories. And it is

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a survivor's choice when they disclose, and just because they

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keep something to themselves, because that's a huge, huge thing,

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you know what I mean, it's no small thing, and

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it takes I forgot I was saying, God her thought

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because it's not mad, but uh, it's their right to

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disclose when they're ready to disclose. And sometimes all it

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takes is one person to disclose and the rest of

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the survivors come forward with their stories, which is what

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happened here. It's what happened here, and it so happens

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all the time, and so it's embarrassing, honestly, if you're saying, oh,

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there is what that was his accomplice, No, she was

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abused by him. Someone left to comment saying, what if

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she's like Gloria Trevi And I'm like, first, like, it

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is way too early, Like what is why is that

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your first thought to blame a woman when the man

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who abused her and others is the person who's it

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wrong here? Right? Other disturbing comments I saw is people

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saying that this was a part of a conspiracy to

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distract from the Epstein Files. Yeah, and it's like, stop

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making everything about the Epstein Files. I'm sorry, but like,

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but also, this is the same situation of uncontrolled, unfettered patriarchy,

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unfettered toxic masculinity, masculinity un I don't know, like unhinged

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men who who are in control and thrive off that

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control and abuse of others. Yeah, they're like one side

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of the same coin. Yeah, exactly. And so like the

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I think, why why I wanted to share all the

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context before is because it's going to establish a long pattern.

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This isn't just a distraction. This isn't why are they

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coming out now with this? What is behind this? Like yeah,

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please stop and like think and yeah, so we're not

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getting into like the UfW strikes or the betrayal of

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Larry Itlong and the Filipino farm workers. That's the tip

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of the iceberg when it comes to Sasa Chavis. We

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did go way deeper in that five part episode series

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on Estonia's Unknown, but I feel like now at this

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point in time, this has been well known that the

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Filipino farm workers were betrayed. Yeah, and especially Larry iong So.

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Dolores Werta was one of Sasa Chavas's earliest and most

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loyal supporters, probably second only to his wife, Helen Chaves.

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Dolors Werta and Sesa Chaves knew each other from CSOU,

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another organization in California. They both worked there. It was

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like a community organizing organ type of place. Again, we

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talked to way more about it in Estonia's a known

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and in many ways she was like him, dedicated to

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the cause, much to the detriment of her own personal relationships,

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children included. The cause came first, and this culture of

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the cause coming first at all costs was part of

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the culture that was created in the UfW to have

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it run like a cult under a Sasa Chavis like.

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I'm sure that's not the case today, but that is

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the atmosphere that he created exactly exactly, And so she

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was a dedicated worker, like beyond dedicated. She spoke up

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when she had thoughts, when she needed to have her voice,

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she spoke up, which, like a lot of men were

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not used to, including Sa sad Chavis and like a

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lot of times he would address his issues with her

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in private, but he occasionally like burst out her in

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anger in public in front of everyone. During one meeting,

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he yelled at her, I don't give a damn what

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you think or anyone thinks. I'm going to run it

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the way I want to run it. And if you

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don't like it, too bad, get out. I don't want

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to argue with you. If you don't want to take

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orders from me, then get out. I've had it. And

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those who were the closest to him were super used

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to outbursts from him like that. This is a super

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regular thing he did, and says chav is also like

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to be in control, even in like situations where like

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you kind of have to let control go. He didn't

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like he controlled everything, and that included like everything in

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the UfW everything, and the UfW is a United for Workers.

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I don't know if we said already, but in case

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anyone doesn't know. One of the ways he maintained control

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in the UfW was to go through a purging of

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union members and keeping a very very tight inner circle,

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which the inner circle happened to be almost only anglow

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at one point during the year of the union, he

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had like one Mexican American labor in his inner circle,

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and eventually that person was purged as well. And purging

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the purgings or like the kicking out of members. It

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was always public and humiliating for those that he fired.

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Speaker 2: It was like a humiliation.

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Speaker 1: Ritual to maintain power and control, as is common in colts. Exactly,

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at some point when the famous grape strikes that we

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all know, when those began, he announced that he was

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going to he was going to establish lap Pass, which

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was a compound. It would serve as a spiritual retreat

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and isolated place for him and the farm workers. And

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Lapass played a big part in the new allegations that

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we will talk about, because yeah, there was a reason

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he wanted to be isolated, right yeah. And I think

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any moment, any moment you get a compound in any that's.

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Speaker 2: Just a red flag all around. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because he had this office called forty acres, but

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forty acres wasn't enough, and that's when they announced LAPAs

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and he died before the fall the other thing could happen.

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But after LAPAs, he also wanted this other like even

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more isolated, yeah, called Los Menos. Do you remember that

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loose menos Yah? Yeah, yeah, But LAPAs did happen, and

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over time, more and more farm worker families moved to

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LAPAs and Lapaz was yeah, out of the way, it

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was in the mountains. In the fall of nineteen seventy four,

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so such Iris was touring Europe to gain support for

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the boycott of different products that was happening, so like

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lettuce was one of them that was happening during this

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time period. And so in this Europe tour, he even

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got to meet the Pope and he talked with the

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Pope about the plight of the farm workers, and it

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was like a Catholic boy's dream come true, this meeting

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the pope. Of course, because we're not going to go

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into a hero. But one of the things that he

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did a lot was like use like religious imagery and

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like Catholic sacrifice to strengthen the cause.

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Speaker 2: I guess you.

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Speaker 1: Could say, yeah, yeah, which again we went into all

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that like it is included fasting whenever they did like

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those like super super long marches, like not wearing. It

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also reminds me of like a high control group and

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cult behavior because yes, fascine is like a thing in

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religion which some would.

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Speaker 2: Say it's also a high control group.

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Speaker 1: But cults are very well known for also for I

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don't know, weird eating habits is not the right thing,

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but they basically they they deprived their members of sleep

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and food in order to control them easier.

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Speaker 2: And so this is like a similar thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And but he was doing it to make it

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under the guise of Catholicism, yes, and to make himself

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look like a martyr, which would give him like myth

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making in real life. Like yeah, yeah, it's all part

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of the same thing. It's a part of controlling his

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image and how he wants people to see him. Yes, yes, exactly,

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and so yeah, he got to meet the Pope. While

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he was doing this, his cousin Manuel Chavez was back

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home doing what some might call like very not Christian

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like behavior, but some might actually see it as very

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Christian type behavior, depending on what religion you are, I

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guess anyway, So Sisa Chilvis over the years when this

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happened nineteen seventy four, had already shared his sentiment on

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undocumented workers, but it only got worse after the failure

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of the letter strikes. He would say things like, quote,

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if we can get the illegals out of California, we

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will win the strike overnight end quote, which the strike

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wasn't going well, he would immediately blame undocumented workers. Yeah,

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and it wasn't their fault, like part of it. Like,

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I think what was missing here was thinking like who

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is explaining the who is the one wanting.

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Speaker 2: To pay them less? Who's offering this? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean this is just a punching down type of attitude,

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like instead of being at the people in power, you're

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mad at the people being taken advantage of and in

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a more vulnerable position than yourself.

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Speaker 2: Right, right.

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Speaker 1: And I've actually been seeing so now that all of

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this has surfaced about Caesar and Travis, people are talking

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about all his other issues, one of those issues.

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Speaker 2: Being what you're talking about right now.

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Speaker 1: His xenophobic and anti undocumented immigrant or farm worker beliefs.

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And I'm still seeing people defending him or like minimizing it.

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Oh no, No, his issue wasn't that they were legals

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first of all. Yeah, it was because it wasn't as fuck,

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it was that they were crossing the picket line. And

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it's like, okay, he was met at the wrong people though,

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and it doesn't mean he was right. And people are

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still defending this, trying to justify it. Oh, they were

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messing with the strikes, and I'm like, at the end

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of the day, it doesn't matter. He was xenophobic. He

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was anti immigrant, anti undocumented people, and that's wrong. Yeah,

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and of sentence like no further justification, Like stop trying

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to like whitewash this.

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Speaker 2: Man, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Yes, or image launder I don't know, Like are when

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we passed that at this point, you would think because

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me discussing things are coming out and you're still like,

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Pender's not the right worry. You're still like trying to

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like twist this positive thing on him, right, And these

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these anti immigrant sentiments have been going around for years

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at this point, Oh, this is old, this is old news.

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As they say, he would blame the undocumented workers when

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where any strike wasn't going well. He would call them

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slurs like wet backs and illegals. He often said that

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CIA was involved in a conspiracy to bring in illegals

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to undermine his union. This was not backed up by

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any evidence, like we know that the FBI, and this

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is still a dumb ass right wing belief that the government,

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the Democrats, are bringing in undocumented people to bring their

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numbers up, even though undocumented people can't vote. Democrats don't

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actually like undocumented people either. Well they're not. They're not

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pro immigration. In reality, they're pro capitalism, right, Yeah, everyone

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is pro capitalism at the end of the day. But

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also one of the biggest like reasons that the Filipino

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farm workers and Larry Leong went or had clashes was

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such ivist before he straight up like just betrayed them,

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was because they had very communist views, which you, honestly

240
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you need when you're doing labor. Yeah, organizing, like please,

241
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this is bare minimum, Like communist is not a fucking

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dirty word. Like stop stop, Like no, I'm not gonna

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get into that run right now. But that was one

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of the issues between them. But how are you going

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to be a pro union, pro workers' rights and then

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have this.

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Speaker 2: Issue with communism as well?

248
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Speaker 1: Like what do you? But that's that that's the thing,

249
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says Chavis was upheld as this leader by the Democratic

250
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Party because he wasn't he was very anti communists. He

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was he was pro himself, yeah, and pro the power

252
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that being in this position got him. Yes, yes, exactly,

253
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and that was one of the strikes between the Filipino

254
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form workers and him. He didn't and when he would

255
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do the purges of the union, it would be like

256
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one of the main reasons he would us is like, oh,

257
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you're you're talking with communist newspapers, you're talking to communists organizations,

258
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And sometimes it wasn't even true. And that's the excuse

259
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he would use, was his excuse. Yeah, yeah, So yeah,

260
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he thought that CIA was doing this and the FBI

261
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were surveilling him, and they weren't because he was very

262
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even though like in the beginning he was organized and

263
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he was a threat to them, later on as the

264
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years went by, they were like, no, we this is

265
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someone we need.

266
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Speaker 2: Like they didn't.

267
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Speaker 1: They don't have a file, a long ass file like

268
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:37,399
they did on MLK or Yah Malcolm X. Like there

269
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was no surveillance like he thought was happening, which made

270
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him paranoid. But that was part of the power getting

271
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to him, the paranoia and the purging of members. Yeah,

272
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and that's why people have a lot of people have

273
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viewed him as a sellout for a long time because

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of that. Yes, sorry, I got a little off track there.

275
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But with Cessa chaviss in Europe, that's where we left us,

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and Manoil Chavis is back in California. And so with

277
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Cessa Chavis's approval and with UfW union money, Manuil Chavis

278
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set up his cousin, Manoid Chavis set up what he

279
00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:20,599
called wetlines. These were patrols along the Arizona border done

280
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by UfW members paying UfW members were patrolling. They were

281
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like a private border patrol exactly. Their first their job

282
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was to stop those trying to cross in search of

283
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work because they thought they were gonna scab. And again,

284
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they don't know the they couldn't possibly ever know the

285
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reason why someone is crossing into Mexico or into the

286
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US from Mexico. But they believed that everyone crossing was

287
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,000
gonna scab the current lemon strike that was going on,

288
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and they frequently used violins to stop people. There were

289
00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,519
incidents reported by the Yuma Daily Sun. Here's one headline.

290
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:02,920
A seventeen year old was beaten by the UfW patrol.

291
00:18:03,279 --> 00:18:06,079
Five cars were torched, a lemon picker was attacked with

292
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a blackjack. One twenty three year old Mexican was beaten

293
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with a hose and robbed by three men. Two men

294
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were beaten and their border crossing cards were stolen. They

295
00:18:15,759 --> 00:18:19,920
were allowed to cross with these border crossing cards. Another

296
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,799
man was found hiding in a bush naked. He had

297
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,359
been taken from the levengrove, beaten and dumped by the border.

298
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,640
This is a UfW doing all this.

299
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

300
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Speaker 1: Two men were beaten, one of them had burns on

301
00:18:31,799 --> 00:18:35,079
the sole of his feet and they had been thrown

302
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,359
in the river. The reports by Mexican newspapers were much worse.

303
00:18:39,839 --> 00:18:43,400
There were daily fire bombs placed under cars, Houses were

304
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,680
set on fire again, all allegedly being done by the

305
00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:52,359
UfW wetline patrols. A month into these patrols there were

306
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:58,559
thirty seven confirmed beatings. Latribuna released pictures of victims who

307
00:18:58,599 --> 00:19:03,079
were beaten by Sessa chavistas is what they were calling them.

308
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It was uncovered that the UfW had bribed officials in

309
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,000
San Luis to let them do this, to not get

310
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,960
them in trouble for doing all the things they were

311
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,839
doing at the border and sometimes into Mexico. The Confederation

312
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,839
of Mexican Workers, who used to work with Manuel Chavis

313
00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:23,640
the UfW and supported their efforts. They broke all ties

314
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,960
to the uf W over this. They called the wet

315
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,279
lines a campaign of terror and even cited that some

316
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,519
Mexicans had been drowned or castrated wow during WE patrolling.

317
00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:40,240
When he was told about these incidents, Sasa Chavis said

318
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,200
it wasn't true and that people were just saying this

319
00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:46,839
to undermine the union. His closest supporters believed him, of course,

320
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,559
despite an investigation in Mexico that proved that police had

321
00:19:51,559 --> 00:19:54,880
been bribed by the uf W. It was so bad

322
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,279
that Bert Corona, another Chicano activists, stage of protests at

323
00:19:59,279 --> 00:20:05,720
the Arizona Bord against the UfW wetlines. There's a recorded

324
00:20:05,759 --> 00:20:09,440
conversation between Cesa and Manuel where he's telling Manuel that

325
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,400
they can bribe police to cut the costs of the

326
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,759
wetlines and bring down the number of uf W members

327
00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:18,039
on patrol, proving that they were doing this. The Mexican

328
00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:21,920
government even issued a warrant for Manuel Chavis's arrest, and

329
00:20:22,039 --> 00:20:26,559
after El Malcriado, the UfW newspaper put out a piece

330
00:20:27,079 --> 00:20:30,519
talking shit about the Mexican president, they actually had Manuel

331
00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:32,759
Javis arrested for three days. He was in a Mexican

332
00:20:32,839 --> 00:20:37,079
jail over all this, But through all this, Sasa Javis

333
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,039
continued to protect his cousin. When asked about all the

334
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:43,799
money that was being spent on the wet lines or

335
00:20:44,319 --> 00:20:46,839
the checks that bounced, he told the rest of the

336
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,759
board members that computers has screwed up the account, lying

337
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:54,200
and like making up reasons. Yeah, he blamed someone else

338
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,079
for like this all the costs, which again we're going

339
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,920
to the wetlines. But he was like it was her

340
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:01,960
fault and fired her.

341
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 2: In another humiliating.

342
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 1: Firing, he berated people trying to cut ten and twenty

343
00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:12,640
dollars here and there. Meanwhile, Minor Chavis got a bulank

344
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,359
check for the wetlines. Damn. At one point the wetline

345
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,839
operations were costing eighty thousand dollars a week. That is

346
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,839
a lot yep. The board kept silent on all of this,

347
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,039
and says Sad Chavis completely supported all of his cousins' work.

348
00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:33,799
He even launched what was called or he called the

349
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,319
Illegals campaign. He said Sisad Chaves. He said Nixon on

350
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,400
board patrol weren't doing enough to keep illegals out, so

351
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,119
he would and so now the UfW was identifying illegal

352
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,440
immigrants and forcing the government to deport them.

353
00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: Wow.

354
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,039
Speaker 1: Lise Eliza Hirsch Hirsh Eliza Hirsch, who was nineteen at

355
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:55,720
the time but had grown up in the Union. Her

356
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,119
parents had moved to Delano when she was twelve to

357
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,440
support the Union, but they had moved during the first

358
00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:05,160
round of purchase that he had done. But she stayed

359
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,599
like they were. Her parents were perched. Yeah, her parents

360
00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:12,720
were purged. They left uh Delano and she stayed living

361
00:22:12,759 --> 00:22:17,880
with the Chavis family. She was nineteen. This just feels

362
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,640
wrong knowing we know exactly she was pretty in charge

363
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,680
of this illegals campaign and she didn't like the idea,

364
00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:28,480
but she did was but she did what she was

365
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,519
told because she was a believer of Sessa Chavis and

366
00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:33,799
this was all she knew. She had been raised in

367
00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:34,319
the Union.

368
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:34,599
Speaker 2: Like.

369
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 1: She crafted a form and distributed it. This form was

370
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,279
called the Rapport on Illegal Farm Labor Activity. It had

371
00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:48,599
a spot for where a person's name would go, where

372
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,920
the closest Border Patrol office would go, the worker's home address,

373
00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:57,960
the grower's name, so like the firm owner their name,

374
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,960
the names of those who had given this illegal and

375
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,559
I'm using illegal in quotation marks this illegal worker food,

376
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,039
transportation and housing. This is like the most right wing

377
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:16,480
thing you could ever Yes, and how they had crossed yeah, wow,

378
00:23:17,079 --> 00:23:20,599
and what they earned. The National Lawyer's Guild, who had

379
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:23,759
previously supplied entrants to the union, refused to participate in

380
00:23:23,799 --> 00:23:26,400
this illegal campaign. It's like people had problems with this

381
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,319
from the beginning as it was happening.

382
00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

383
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,759
Speaker 1: This cost as such, I was to break all ties

384
00:23:31,799 --> 00:23:35,119
with them and fire all the current interns. And he

385
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,839
also like believed that people needed to work for free,

386
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,359
like they couldn't be for the cause if and expect

387
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,200
a paycheck. This is a quote from the book that

388
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,119
it was my source for all of this, which is

389
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:51,759
called The Crusades of Sasa Chavis by Miriam Powell. So

390
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,880
Whereta supported the campaign, but suggested they changed the terminology

391
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,240
because some people found the words went back and illegal offensive.

392
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,279
She said, the people themselves aren't illegal, their action of

393
00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:08,039
being in this country may be illegal. When she said this,

394
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:11,880
Chavis turned on where that angrily. No, a spade's a spade,

395
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,200
he said, you guys get these hang ups. Goddamn it,

396
00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:17,960
how do we build a union? They're wets, you know,

397
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,839
they're wets and let's go after them and quote and

398
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,839
just like one more thing that really emphasizes how culty

399
00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:30,680
all this was at some point since such I always

400
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,079
hurt his back and he believed that it was Oh,

401
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,319
he was also very into like alternative therapies, which we

402
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,759
talked about in those five episodes. We went in deep

403
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:43,960
on how he got, like supporters of the union to

404
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,559
buy him very expensive like spas. Oh yeah, that they

405
00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:51,000
had a place into Lapasse because he needed it. Things

406
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:55,079
like that LAPAs itself was paid for by a supporter

407
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,039
of the union who thought they were supporting like the

408
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,240
union and the fight for workers right, and it was

409
00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:03,920
like a Hollywood someone I don't remember their name, it's

410
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,200
in those episodes, but that's who paid for who bought lapass.

411
00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:10,799
So yeah, one more thing to emphasize the culty elements

412
00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:13,599
in the w At some point, has such I always

413
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,119
hurt his back and he believed it was related to

414
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,160
his diet. He blamed Mexican food for being so unhealthy

415
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,640
and became strictly vegetarian. And also he could have nothing processed.

416
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,759
So Helen and the kids ate traditional Mexican food and

417
00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:32,039
he didn't, and so she had to make him like

418
00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:34,079
a separate meal every time, and he was very like,

419
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,640
very vocal about his diet and how it helped his back,

420
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:42,960
and so his most loyal followers adopted the same diet,

421
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,599
which included a carried juice regime. Yeah, that's that's cold

422
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,400
team regimen. I think it was to say, not regime,

423
00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:53,000
probably carry juice regimen.

424
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,039
Speaker 2: Yeah.

425
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,039
Speaker 1: He would say things like I wouldn't eat my dog,

426
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,319
and cows are just like them. And this made him

427
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,240
or this cemented his good person image that the followers

428
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:06,960
had of him, and others were like, just stop, like

429
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,839
what are you doing? Stop like Larry, Larry couldn't stand this,

430
00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:12,480
like this kind of shit that he did to make

431
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:16,079
himself look holier than that. But this is what abusers do, right,

432
00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:23,680
They cultivate these images as community leaders, as people fighting

433
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:29,799
for others rights, so that when allegations and disclosures come out,

434
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,759
people would be like, oh, they would never do that,

435
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,559
you know, like they purposely cultivate these images.

436
00:26:35,319 --> 00:26:35,839
Speaker 2: Exactly.

437
00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: During a meeting with some teamsters, one union leader told

438
00:26:40,759 --> 00:26:42,720
them to just act like a union leader and not

439
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:47,519
a saint, saying, quote, get upop your fucking knees. Let's

440
00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:49,920
not make it a cause, let's make it a fucking union.

441
00:26:50,039 --> 00:26:51,880
We'll buy unie pads if you want to fight a

442
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,640
holy war and quote. They were tired of his shit,

443
00:26:58,039 --> 00:27:01,000
and poor Larry, Larry was so tired of his shit,

444
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,440
saysar Chavis started another purge of members that became known

445
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,160
as the Monday Night Massacre because that's how many people

446
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,119
were kicked out. This was April fourth, nineteen seventy seven.

447
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:22,079
After kicking these members out in this specific purge, this

448
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,440
was all at LAPAs, and these people were living at LAPAs.

449
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,279
He kicked them out of LAPAs where they lived. He

450
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:31,960
refused to let them use the phone, and they had

451
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,480
no way to contact anyone for help after they were

452
00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:38,680
kicked out like this was on purpose. Yeah, it was

453
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,759
after this specific purging that the union entered a new chapter, saysar.

454
00:27:43,839 --> 00:27:47,039
Chavis told the board the union needed drastic change and

455
00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:49,839
that they needed to be a movement or a union,

456
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,839
but not both. And in February nineteen seventy seven, he

457
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,599
called the board meeting at one of Synanon's compounds. And

458
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,279
for those that don't know, Synanon is a cult and

459
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:08,839
it was also the predecessor. It started at one of

460
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,599
the first were they called teen trouble teens. Trouble teen.

461
00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:16,039
Speaker 2: It basically pioneered the trouble teen industry.

462
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,839
Speaker 1: And one of the most vile schools ever Elon.

463
00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:22,319
Speaker 2: E. L a n.

464
00:28:23,079 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: Not Elon Musk, but Elon the Elon School. Yeah, it's

465
00:28:28,079 --> 00:28:31,160
unclear to me exactly how Sasad Tavis and Charles Dietrich,

466
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,839
the leader of Synernon, became friends. But the cult, it

467
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,079
was a cult before it was before the cult became

468
00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:44,880
known as a cult, like before it was public. They

469
00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:49,119
started out like as a medical organization, supposedly like a

470
00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:54,799
healthcare organization, and Synnon had clinics throughout California, and one

471
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:58,000
of the clinics was very close to all the UfW

472
00:28:58,359 --> 00:29:01,559
workers and members and they would go to the Synnon

473
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,240
clinic for help. And so maybe through there it was

474
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:08,559
that Tessa Travis and Charles Ddrich became connected. I honestly

475
00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:13,400
couldn't find how they came to know each other. But yeah,

476
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,880
we already described Synernon a little bit. But yes, it's

477
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:21,319
a cult. They originally began as Tender Loving Care and

478
00:29:21,359 --> 00:29:23,720
it was a religious movement founded in nineteen fifty eight

479
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,920
by Charles E. Chuck Diedrich Senior in Santa Monica, California.

480
00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:35,000
Originally established as a drug rehabilitation program, Cynnon developed into

481
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:39,200
an alternate community centered on group truth telling sessions that

482
00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:43,559
became known as the Synonyon Game, a form of attack

483
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,880
therapy Cynernon was. By the time it was all public

484
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,480
and known, Cinnanon was said to be one of the

485
00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:55,079
most dangerous and violin goals America had ever seen. Synnon

486
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,200
disbanded in nineteen ninety one after several members were convicted

487
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,559
of offenses including financial miss deeds, evidence tamporing, terrorism, and

488
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:07,400
attempted murder. And so it's very possible that the UfW

489
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:09,799
members that were just going to clinic, no, it was

490
00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:14,160
a cult. Yeah. The only one who would have been

491
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,960
more aware of how controlled Synanon was would be Sasa Chavis,

492
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,799
who kept in touch with the leader, Charles Diedrich. He

493
00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:28,319
looked up to him. He felt that Chuck was able

494
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:31,920
to take Synonyon to the next level, something he aspired

495
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,440
to do with the UfW. A cult was the next level.

496
00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: He admired his cult leadership. Yeah.

497
00:30:40,119 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Charles told Cesar that in order for him to

498
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,960
do the same, he needed to weed out those who

499
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,519
resist change. And he told them that one thing was

500
00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:58,319
instrumental to cynern On and to maintain an order in

501
00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:01,319
the cult. This never said the word cold, but in

502
00:31:01,759 --> 00:31:04,480
Synon maintaining order in syn and On. And that thing

503
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:10,200
was the game. And the game was presented as group therapy.

504
00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:15,400
In it, the players all accused one another of their wrongdoings,

505
00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:18,759
and it would often be exaggerated. One person was called

506
00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:22,000
out and then others would join. The person escaped this

507
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:28,079
yelling being by accusing someone else. Then everyone would gang

508
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,960
up on that person. Supposedly it was to correct faults

509
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,920
and miscommunications, but it was really another a humiliation ritual. Yeah,

510
00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:39,400
and we already mentioned this, but I had it written

511
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,079
down here in my notes. But if you know anything

512
00:31:41,119 --> 00:31:43,559
about the trouble team industry, then you've probably heard about

513
00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:46,599
the Elon school which used the game and their abuse.

514
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,799
And yes, they learned it from Synnon. And so Sister

515
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,680
Chavis took the board of the UfW to the newest

516
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,319
Synonym compound. They had not been debriefed on what was

517
00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:03,880
about to happen. Only Charles Ddrich and the Synanon members knew.

518
00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:09,440
The board members they had different plans. They Marshall Gantz,

519
00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:12,400
who we talked more about him in the five episodes.

520
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,160
Any story asn't known, but he was one of the

521
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,160
early early members of the UfW. He wanted to talk

522
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,680
about focusing on vegetable workers in Salinas and the Imperial Valley.

523
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:27,000
Elisel Medina wanted to talk about the vineyards in Oxnard.

524
00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:29,640
Like you got the idea. They thought they were gonna

525
00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:33,759
it was gonna be a regular meeting once they all gathered.

526
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,519
They were then confused when Sesar Chavis said he wasn't

527
00:32:37,559 --> 00:32:41,920
there to talk about elections, contracts, nothing. They weren't there

528
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,599
to talk about the union's philosophy. They were going to

529
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,119
learn from the Synanon family and they were going to

530
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,960
learn the game. He told them that it was time

531
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,640
to decide were they a movement or were they a union,

532
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,880
because they needed to decide if they would run on

533
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,000
volunteer work as a movement or pay wages as a union.

534
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,680
But they couldn't afford it. He wanted people to work

535
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,359
for free. Yeah, and some people like, I don't know

536
00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:11,160
what does revere mean? Like does that like celebrate Yeah, yeah,

537
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:15,079
kind of okay, some people Revere that says Chivis was

538
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:19,799
such a humble man who did all this for free,

539
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:23,119
basically for lowest costs possible, because he wanted to appear

540
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,000
like a murder Yeah, because he didn't want to pay anyone.

541
00:33:26,119 --> 00:33:31,039
Like it wasn't because it wasn't because he cared.

542
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:31,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

543
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,759
Speaker 1: And so here he told them like, with what's it

544
00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:39,400
going to be or with a movement who has volunteers

545
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:44,480
or are we a union who pays wages and members?

546
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:47,960
Like uh Cohen who was another longtime member of the

547
00:33:48,039 --> 00:33:52,559
UfW and Richard Chavis, which is his brother. They were like,

548
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,240
we need to pay people, come on, yeah, and says

549
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,359
Chavis was completely opposed. He wouldn't hear it. He told

550
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,680
him if they didn't get their shit together and become

551
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,279
a movement, he would now be part of it. And

552
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:07,079
then he told them he was going to bring the

553
00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:09,519
game back to Lapasse and so they needed to learn

554
00:34:09,559 --> 00:34:11,920
it and they would watch the Synanon members do the

555
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,199
game and then they were invited to join. And so

556
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,840
when they were invited to join and they had to

557
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,840
like yell at each other, his brother was like what

558
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,119
the fuck and walked out. He's like this is no

559
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,760
for me. Yeah, yeah, like I can't do this. After

560
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,199
the game, Charles spent two hours explaining how he scored

561
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,239
everyone during the game and that he would train the

562
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,360
twelve UfW members, says Chavez said that everyone who moved

563
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,960
into Lapasse after March first, nineteen seventy seven had to

564
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,000
participate in the game. None of the members liked it,

565
00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:50,079
but no one objected to it except Richard Chavis. After

566
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:53,119
they left the Synnon compound, Chaves wrote a letter to

567
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,480
Charles ddrich about how he deeply admired him and what

568
00:34:56,559 --> 00:35:01,599
he was doing with Synanon the cult. Charles even proposed

569
00:35:01,639 --> 00:35:05,400
opening a Synanon run compound for the US Wow, which

570
00:35:05,559 --> 00:35:09,280
it didn't actually happen, but he proposed it the game

571
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,679
though that did happen at LAPAs, since Javis handpicked the

572
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,320
eleven that would be trained in the game, and he

573
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:18,320
chose purposely who he thought was the most loyal, who

574
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,519
he could groom into becoming more loyal and more faithful.

575
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,079
Among them was his own son, Paul Chavis, his son

576
00:35:26,119 --> 00:35:29,559
in law, his niece, Richard Javis's daughter, one of the

577
00:35:29,639 --> 00:35:35,000
rodes Werta's kids, and during the first game at LAPAs,

578
00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:39,599
they gained up on Juaquin Murhiya, who is the brother

579
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,880
of one of these we'll get into the allegations, but

580
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,400
he's the brother of Anna Murhiya. So they gained up

581
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,559
on Jaquin Murhia, who had just gotten into college, and

582
00:35:50,679 --> 00:35:53,480
this is from the book about when they gained up

583
00:35:53,519 --> 00:35:57,320
on him during the game. After this first session, more

584
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,960
were trained and there were different games every weekend.

585
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: It got to the.

586
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 1: Point where there was a wait list for twelve people, sorry,

587
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,079
a weight list for people, and there were different games

588
00:36:06,079 --> 00:36:09,119
happening at the same time from nine to twelve on Sundays,

589
00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:13,039
the game started and we got on him, Chavis recounted

590
00:36:13,039 --> 00:36:15,679
to the executive board. Boy did he open up. He

591
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,920
broke down and cried. Juaquin quit school and went to

592
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,400
work full time in the UfW accounting department. It works

593
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,239
real nice, Chavis said. Matt Ran cited Joaquin's desicion approvingly

594
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,199
as testimony to the power of the thoughts and feelings

595
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,360
of their peers when expressed in the game. So they

596
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,440
were like, yeah, the game works. But yeah, they coerced

597
00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:41,800
Juaquin with he had to quitting college and working for

598
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,079
the DFW basically for free. So then board meetings started

599
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:50,519
to get more and more tense, taking the tone of

600
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:52,480
the game on. It wasn't the game, it was a

601
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,800
board meeting, but the board meetings became like the game.

602
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,239
During every meeting there was a fight between Susan Chavis

603
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,039
and Dolores Berda Staraty wanting to quit.

604
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 2: Says O.

605
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,039
Speaker 1: Chavis talked less about farm workers and was more preoccupied

606
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:09,840
with the game who he could put in the game

607
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,079
to find out something about them, like that was his preoccupation,

608
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,199
not the farm workers. He would also talk about how

609
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,760
he didn't trust farm workers that meeting because they only

610
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,719
cared at meetings because they only cared about money, which

611
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,239
like this was the whole point for them to fight

612
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,920
for livable wages. Yeah, for their rights. You're supposed to

613
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,280
be like a work union, right, But because people and

614
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,280
all of my comments always say, well he cared about

615
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,920
the farm workers, he didn't.

616
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 2: No, he didn't.

617
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: No. He I think maybe in the beginning he did,

618
00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:48,559
but the power got to him by the end, he didn't.

619
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:54,320
This is evidence of that. He would openly talk about

620
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,039
how he didn't trust farm workers, yeah, because they only

621
00:37:57,079 --> 00:38:00,800
cared about money, And then he would go in public

622
00:38:01,039 --> 00:38:03,639
at all these events and talk about how important farm

623
00:38:03,639 --> 00:38:05,840
workers were and how they were the movement.

624
00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

625
00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: He at some point he would in these meetings talk

626
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,519
about how he didn't want the movement to be about

627
00:38:16,519 --> 00:38:20,320
farm workers anymore, which was the whole point of the

628
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:26,280
UfW right United farm Workers. It's in the name, bitch, Yeah,

629
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,840
And he wanted it to be a religious movement, in

630
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,119
other words.

631
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,559
Speaker 2: His cult, his own personal cult. Yeah.

632
00:38:36,599 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 1: And so at first that game was only played like

633
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,119
once on Sundays, then they blocked out half of Sunday

634
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:44,880
for the game. Then they added on the game on

635
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:50,400
Wednesday evenings. Hundreds were participating, and Sayesa Javis kept a

636
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,920
list of the few dozen who still refused, which yeah,

637
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,719
which included Richard Chavis, and says Sa Chavis to tell

638
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,440
Richard like, aren't you part of the community. This is

639
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,880
part of the community. And Richard was like, I don't

640
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,480
want this. And Savis would start naming communities to say

641
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:10,360
like you need to get in line because it is

642
00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:14,760
this is a community, and he would name other cults.

643
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:18,840
Oh my god, he's telling her himself.

644
00:39:20,199 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

645
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: Jim Drake, another very very long time us W supporter

646
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:28,920
and member from like the beginning, he would tell to

647
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,920
such Ibs that it scares him. When he started mentioning

648
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:37,119
all those losers, meaning other cult leaders. Yeah, yeah, including

649
00:39:37,159 --> 00:39:39,480
center On. He's like, this scares me. Why are you

650
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:47,840
talking about the Basically that was him, Yeah, and that

651
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:53,800
was a quote from Yeah. So many were worrying about

652
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,360
to such Javis. But those two voice concerns were kicked out,

653
00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:00,800
and so the most loyal support or as they stayed

654
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,280
and this kept on happening, and then it got worse

655
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,800
in nineteen seventy seven. In the summer of nineteen seventy seven,

656
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,280
says such I was was invited to the Philippines by

657
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:16,000
Ferdinand Marcos. A dictator. Yeah, a straight up dictator. Like

658
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,000
there's no way, there's no ifs and or butts about it.

659
00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:23,880
This was a dictator, yes, And so the UfW was

660
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:30,840
like always losing Filipino workers. One person had advised him

661
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,960
to make this trip and that he would arrange everything,

662
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,440
and the board told him, like this was a bad idea.

663
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,440
It was already known that the Marcus regime was involved

664
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,119
in human rights violations, but says such I was one anyway,

665
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,880
and when he returned, says such I was praised the

666
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,920
Marcos regime. He was amazed by Marshall law, and he

667
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:57,159
applauded the president. He would love Bugle and Trump. Yeah,

668
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:02,400
when there was rightfully so criticism about this, says her,

669
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:03,840
Chavis doubled down.

670
00:41:04,519 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 2: Of course, he didn't.

671
00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:08,679
Speaker 1: During a meeting with hundreds of people, he announced that

672
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,480
he didn't praise martial law, but he supported the president.

673
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,719
But it's like that's the same thing. And then he

674
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,960
doubled down more and said that he didn't see any

675
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:24,000
human rights violated of courtured or abuse when he was there.

676
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,039
When the attention for the shit he said was too negative,

677
00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:32,320
he retreated into LAPAs. That's what Lapasse was for his

678
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:44,519
isolated retreatment place. It got so bad that people who

679
00:41:44,559 --> 00:41:47,199
had been supportive of him since the beginning were beginning

680
00:41:47,199 --> 00:41:50,760
to resign. And there's like, there's so many names, over

681
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:56,159
half the lawyers, Elisel Medina, even Helen Chaves. His wife

682
00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:00,320
was over it. She moved out of Lapass for many reasons,

683
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,480
but one of them was Asa said Chavis was a

684
00:42:03,519 --> 00:42:06,920
serial cheater. One day she was filling in for his

685
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,239
secretary and she found a love letter written to Sasa

686
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,199
Chavis by an eighteen year old. Oh my god, he

687
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,719
was like almost fifty at this point. Yeah, and when

688
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,719
I told you this and he started asn't known we

689
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,920
were like she was eighteen, he was forty something, almost fifty.

690
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,320
He's the leader of the union. She's a farm worker.

691
00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:30,760
The power and balance is already like so obvious. But

692
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,239
if she was eighteen, like, who's to say there wasn't

693
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:39,239
any younger survivors of his and look and like how

694
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:40,239
soon that started?

695
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I mean.

696
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, when Helen Chavis saw this letter by an eighteen

697
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,320
year old, she had asked the secretary if there had

698
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,199
been other letters, but the secretary said nothing because they

699
00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:57,519
all kept his secrets. Yeah, this is how this is

700
00:42:57,559 --> 00:43:01,079
the environment, the atmosphere, he said. And you'd think that

701
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:03,519
the mass quitting would be a wake up call, but

702
00:43:03,559 --> 00:43:08,599
Sasa Chavis's cult like behavior only worsened. He even in

703
00:43:08,679 --> 00:43:10,760
this point, like in this time period, took a six

704
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,119
day mind control class in la and then announced that

705
00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:15,760
he could heal people with his hands.

706
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't know how you get to that point.

707
00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:30,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this stuff has all been public, but like

708
00:43:31,159 --> 00:43:34,719
you had to look for it. Yeah, the stuff like

709
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,079
that we just shared. But now these allegations that are

710
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:42,400
worse have become super public. There's like no hiding how

711
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,519
terrible Tessa Chavis is. And before I share the new allegations,

712
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:49,480
I did want to share a story that I saw

713
00:43:49,559 --> 00:43:51,760
from someone that Carlon and I both follow. It was

714
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,400
a story on their Instagram. She is by Waves on Instagram,

715
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,960
but she wrote quote seeing too many people immense specific

716
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,119
gleefully sharing Chavist allegations and saying shit like about time.

717
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:09,000
Finally he's canceled, citing Chavis's anti immigration history, how he

718
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:12,639
solved out fellow Filipino farm workers, et cetera. And while

719
00:44:12,679 --> 00:44:15,039
that is all true, I'm going to need y'all to stop.

720
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,280
I see this every time a man, especially a powerful,

721
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,159
rich and well known man, is outed as an abuser,

722
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,039
people using survivors as a gotcha to validate their own

723
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:30,039
public grievances with an abuser. Survivors pain and trauma minimized

724
00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:34,480
and treated as entertainment and collateral damage. Survivors don't exist

725
00:44:34,559 --> 00:44:37,400
to make men feel better about not being like other men.

726
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,840
If the first thing out of your mouth when stories

727
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,880
of abuse come to light isn't acknology and century and survivors,

728
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,760
you're making light of abuse and perpetuating rape culture for GoF. Okay,

729
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,760
I'm so glad you shared that, because that was another

730
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,280
thing I had didn't say in the beginning of the episode,

731
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,239
but I wanted to mention that it's basically just to

732
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,880
echo what she said that yeah, too many times. And

733
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,719
it's the same issue I have with the Epstein Files, right,

734
00:45:05,679 --> 00:45:10,719
like people are centering all the crazy conspiracies they're making

735
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,360
up and all the stuff, and not centering the survivors,

736
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,920
and like it doesn't matter, Like we're you know, context

737
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,000
about Desir travist just so that people know about what

738
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:27,079
else was out there before these allegations came out. But

739
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,519
it's not to say, oh, see, we were right, We're vindicated.

740
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,679
Like we all grew up learning about Seth Javis and

741
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,320
viewing him as a hero, and everyone in their own

742
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,280
at different times learned the reality about him, right, So

743
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,199
it's not I think a time for us to be like, see,

744
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,639
we were right. We even hater since day one, you know,

745
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,960
Like that's not the point of this, Like we should

746
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:57,000
be centering survivors and and we should be glad that

747
00:45:57,039 --> 00:45:58,679
they came out and they shared their stories, you know

748
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,679
what I mean, Like it doesn't matter. It doesn't take

749
00:46:00,679 --> 00:46:04,000
away from the movement. If anything, it goes to show

750
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:08,800
that we should not be putting these men on pedestals ever, right,

751
00:46:09,159 --> 00:46:13,440
Like the face of the movement should have never been

752
00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:16,840
one person. Yeah. And when you let it be one person,

753
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,079
then especially a man like that, power gets to their head.

754
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:26,039
They already have the power of machismo and pittriarchy. Imagine, yeah,

755
00:46:26,039 --> 00:46:29,079
then imagine me abused as a hero like all that

756
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:35,400
much more power to take advantage of girls and women, right, exactly, exactly,

757
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,559
And so The New York Times released their investigation today

758
00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:43,920
at the Timber Recording March eighteen, twenty twenty six. They

759
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,239
had been working on this since twenty twenty one, damn

760
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,599
yeah years. The reporters were Many Fernandez and Sarah Hurtz.

761
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,920
They interviewed several women who for the first time told

762
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:02,960
their stories. But yesterday before this came out, so March seventeenth,

763
00:47:03,039 --> 00:47:05,440
do the UfW announced that they were canceling to such

764
00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:11,639
Chavs Day celebrations due to troubling allegations and like nobody

765
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,440
knew what these were, for the story wouldn't come out, Yeah,

766
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:19,360
And so they canceled preemptively these celebrations, and then The

767
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:25,559
New York Times dropped this. So Anna Murhia and Debra Rojas,

768
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,039
they're both sixty six now, but they were but when

769
00:47:29,039 --> 00:47:32,280
they were teens, they were both abused by Sasa Chavis.

770
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,119
He abused them both for years from nineteen seventy two

771
00:47:36,199 --> 00:47:40,639
to nineteen seventy seven. Both of them were part of

772
00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:44,400
the families who had moved to La Pass to the compound.

773
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:47,679
Both had known so Such Chavis since the since they

774
00:47:47,679 --> 00:47:52,960
were children, both had marched alongside him. The reporters also

775
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:56,320
interviewed Doloresuerta, who told them in an interview for the

776
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,079
first time ever she made this public that he he

777
00:48:00,119 --> 00:48:04,039
sexually assaulted her too, and that resulted in pregnancies.

778
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 2: Just a lot.

779
00:48:07,159 --> 00:48:11,639
Speaker 1: It is, it is she held that secret for sixty years.

780
00:48:12,039 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 2: Wait can we share her statement?

781
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: I have it in here later. Oh okay, okay, yeah.

782
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,719
Anam Murhia and Debra Rojas also held their secrets for years,

783
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,440
but this was like all too much for specifically Anna

784
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,559
when she learned that a street very close to her

785
00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:34,360
home Bakersfield was in the process of being renamed after

786
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,400
her abuser, and they both went on to tell The

787
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,880
New York Times that if he felt like a shadow,

788
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,039
that they couldn't escape. I can only imagine because those

789
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:46,920
of us who had no personal experience with this man

790
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,480
but know about how horrible he was, felt like that too.

791
00:48:50,519 --> 00:48:52,119
You know what I mean, like, oh my god, not

792
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,960
fucking this day again or not, you know, him being

793
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:56,719
celebrated again.

794
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,199
Speaker 2: Imagine being abused by him and seeing him.

795
00:48:59,079 --> 00:49:05,559
Speaker 1: Everywhere, Yeah, murals, streets, same as for him, schools, schools, parks,

796
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:11,039
mm hmm. For Anna, the abuse began when she was thirteen,

797
00:49:11,159 --> 00:49:13,760
Oh my god, but the grooming had been going on

798
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,159
for a while by then, back to when she was

799
00:49:17,199 --> 00:49:21,519
eight or nine. Her family moved to the compound Lapasse

800
00:49:21,639 --> 00:49:23,920
in nineteen seventy one, and this is when, says her,

801
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,400
Chavis started asking Anna for help in random little things,

802
00:49:28,199 --> 00:49:31,960
dictating letters or to work the phone at the compound's

803
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:36,519
phone switchboard. This was something that made her proud, like, oh,

804
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:40,880
she's helping in the movement, she's helping him, and with

805
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,639
his status among the UfW like, of course, it made

806
00:49:43,639 --> 00:49:47,719
her proud. And then so this was around from like

807
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,119
eleven to twelve is when she was doing this extra

808
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:53,519
little work here and then having like one on one

809
00:49:53,559 --> 00:49:56,440
times with is R. Chavis under the guise of doing

810
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,760
this work. But when she was thirteen, he began to

811
00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:05,199
her into his office and I believe we mentioned this

812
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,679
in the five episodes we did in Estonia as a

813
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:12,119
known but he was obsessed with alternate healing therapies and

814
00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:16,599
so this, this alternative medicine was like another tool in

815
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:20,360
his fuming because he would have Anna laid down either

816
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,280
on his desk or the yoga mat, and then began

817
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,079
to show her different pressure points. And then this escalated.

818
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:31,239
It's like any excuse to well, it'screw me yeah, yeah, yeah,

819
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:38,239
and like trigger content warning for a little bit like

820
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,400
of the I'm not going into details details, but this

821
00:50:41,559 --> 00:50:46,119
is disturbing, so content warning for rape. But the first

822
00:50:46,159 --> 00:50:49,480
time that this went from showing her a little pressure points,

823
00:50:49,519 --> 00:50:53,159
like little touching here and there. The first time it escalated,

824
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,079
he had called her into that same office that she

825
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,760
had been in many different occasions, but this time when

826
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,599
he her onto the yoga mat, he kissed her and

827
00:51:02,679 --> 00:51:07,960
then he pulled her pants down. After he was done,

828
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:11,280
he told her not to tell anyone because everyone else

829
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:16,519
would get jealous. And this went out for years, he

830
00:51:16,599 --> 00:51:19,679
took her on tour with him to different marches and events.

831
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,320
There's one really famous picture from the one thousand Mile

832
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,599
March that happened in the summer of nineteen seventy five.

833
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,920
In this picture, Anna is marching nextus as her Javis.

834
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,519
By this point she was fifteen, and it was after

835
00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:38,760
this march that she had walked into the kitchen and

836
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:46,159
saw him kissing another woman, and she felt betrayed. She

837
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,239
was like actively being abused by him, and enter the

838
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,480
guise of she was the only one, which like teens,

839
00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:54,280
like no one has when there's someone is being abused.

840
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,480
They don't have the language to understand what's happening, you know,

841
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,000
much less a teenager who probably has doesn't have any

842
00:52:01,199 --> 00:52:04,760
experience in a relationship. And this is not a relationship, mind, dude,

843
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,480
This is like abuse. But this is the only example

844
00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:10,159
of something like that she had, so of course she

845
00:52:10,199 --> 00:52:14,280
feels that way. Yeah, yeah, And so after this moment

846
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,920
he sought her out less and less until he stopped completely.

847
00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:21,480
And about this, she told The New York Times quote,

848
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,760
I felt very alone. I had zero support end quote.

849
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,960
She left LAPAs at nineteen and fell into heroin addiction.

850
00:52:31,639 --> 00:52:34,400
She returned to Lapaz, hoping that such Avis could help her,

851
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:38,079
but when she returned, he called her into the office

852
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,320
in a room full of men and told her she

853
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,639
was bringing drugs into the community and that she needed

854
00:52:42,679 --> 00:52:47,000
to leave. And like, this is a he could have

855
00:52:47,039 --> 00:52:49,400
told her by herself, no, no, because he needed to

856
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,920
humiliate her as well. Exactly, this is how the purgings

857
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,079
and the kicking people out. It was always done this way.

858
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:56,679
Speaker 2: Yeah.

859
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: When a family member asked her what happened, she told

860
00:53:00,159 --> 00:53:03,639
family member, quote, he doesn't need me anymore. I'm grown up.

861
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,039
He told me to get out.

862
00:53:05,199 --> 00:53:08,679
Speaker 2: End quote. So sad. Yeah.

863
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: For years she felt like she would have been blamed

864
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:17,880
for her abuse, and she told no one, though she

865
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,559
did tell a few family members in the nineteen eighties,

866
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:22,840
like three or four different family members from what I

867
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,679
read in the New York Times article, but they couldn't

868
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:31,519
get them to like talk more about this. The other

869
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:33,719
person she did confide in who she knew she could

870
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:39,039
trust was de Drocas. Debra's family moved to La pass

871
00:53:39,079 --> 00:53:42,639
in nineteen seventy two when she was twelve, and in

872
00:53:42,679 --> 00:53:45,800
that same year, says her job as asked her into

873
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:50,199
his office locked the door, asked her about school and books,

874
00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:54,000
and when she was admiring his bookshelves, he touched her

875
00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:59,280
for the first time. She was shocked and confused. That

876
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,800
was their first encounter, but like Anna, it went on

877
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,800
for years. He would call her house talk about Union

878
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,800
stuff with her dad and then he would ask her

879
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,920
dad to put her on the phone and he then

880
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,760
invited her also to the one thousand mile March. At

881
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,639
this point she was fifteen. Her parents were skeptical about

882
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:23,360
letting her go, but said such Jabas insisted that Deborah

883
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,320
would be safe, and of course he was this revered

884
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,800
leader among them, Like they were going.

885
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 2: To trust him. Yeah.

886
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,079
Speaker 1: He called and called and called as telling them to

887
00:54:36,159 --> 00:54:39,239
let her go to the march. And because of that

888
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,519
culture he had created within the uf W, because of

889
00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:45,039
his status within the uf W, her parents just wanted

890
00:54:45,079 --> 00:54:46,880
to be on his good side. They thought he was

891
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,920
a good person. Yeah, and they said yes, they loved

892
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,400
sasuch Javis. They admired such Javis. Everyone did.

893
00:54:55,199 --> 00:54:59,039
Speaker 2: So they believed that their daughter would be safe. So

894
00:54:59,079 --> 00:54:59,480
she went.

895
00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 1: And during that march in August, he like randomly told her,

896
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:07,079
you're going home for a week, and she was like

897
00:55:07,159 --> 00:55:10,960
sad and confused. She thought she was in trouble, and

898
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,199
when she was waiting at the bus stop to go

899
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:17,079
back home for a week, he showed up in a

900
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:21,440
car with one of his bodyguards to pick her up,

901
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,519
and they drove to a motel on Highway ninety nine,

902
00:55:25,199 --> 00:55:30,320
and in this motel was the first time he raped her. Hello, Hello,

903
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,079
this is Christina from the future. There's one thing I

904
00:55:33,079 --> 00:55:38,320
forgot to mention here, but when this happened, he had

905
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,639
a gun on him that she saw him place on

906
00:55:41,679 --> 00:55:45,920
the dresser before the assault, and that just adds another

907
00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:49,639
level of coercion that that was already there, right, and

908
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,920
another thing to fear when I just wanted to make

909
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,679
sure that everyone had that context and to not leave

910
00:55:55,719 --> 00:56:00,519
it out as well. Okay, back to the episode. Oh

911
00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:02,639
my god, So he made her feel like he was

912
00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:04,800
like abandoning her and making her go home, then picked

913
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:11,000
her up in the state of emotional I don't know, yeah, despair,

914
00:56:12,039 --> 00:56:18,400
and then took advantage of her. Yeah, And he was

915
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,199
with one of his bodyguards when he picked her up,

916
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:24,559
So that's at least one other person that knew that

917
00:56:24,639 --> 00:56:29,920
knew exactly after this though, after this moment and after

918
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,960
the march was over, he grew more and more distant

919
00:56:33,519 --> 00:56:36,920
and told her. Deborah told Debra that he needed to

920
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:42,760
go back to his wife, and like Anna, Deborah told

921
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:46,000
a very few select family members about what happened to her,

922
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:50,239
but not until the nineteen nineties. Another daughter of a

923
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,400
union member also came forward, Esmerada Lopez, and this is

924
00:56:54,559 --> 00:56:57,360
years after Debra and Anna's.

925
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 2: Abuse had taken place.

926
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 1: At LAPAs eighty eight, Esmeerda was selected to go on

927
00:57:03,519 --> 00:57:07,039
and out of state speaking tour in Michigan with Sasa Chabas.

928
00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:12,400
After the event, they drove to his camper that was

929
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,199
attached to a pickup truck and there they chatted and

930
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,599
talked about the event. They were sitting on the bed

931
00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:23,639
in the camper. When they were talking, while sitting on

932
00:57:23,679 --> 00:57:26,199
the bed, he pointed to a street sign that was

933
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,519
named after him outside and told Esmerada that if she

934
00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:33,000
slept with him, something could be named after her. Oh

935
00:57:33,079 --> 00:57:37,599
my god, she was nineteen and he was sixty one.

936
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

937
00:57:39,639 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: She was shaken and she rebuffed him, and after that

938
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,199
he didn't say anything, and she called her mom right

939
00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:47,599
away and told her that she needed to come home.

940
00:57:48,119 --> 00:57:50,519
When her mom asked what happened. She told her mom

941
00:57:50,719 --> 00:57:53,000
quote says Sar Chabas.

942
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:53,519
Speaker 2: Is just a man.

943
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: End quote, Oh my god, the chils I just got

944
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,559
because that's literally that's how I feel about this whole thing.

945
00:58:02,559 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

946
00:58:03,599 --> 00:58:10,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, Her mom, Cynthia Bell, completely understood when her daughter said,

947
00:58:10,639 --> 00:58:14,239
Sesar Javis is just a man. Her mom is seventy

948
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:18,920
five now, and she recalls sexual advances from Cesar Javis

949
00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:21,880
when she was in her early twenties in the nineteen seventies.

950
00:58:22,159 --> 00:58:23,079
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

951
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,559
Speaker 1: They were dancing at some event, like a union event,

952
00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:31,400
and he told her quote, I see you sometimes like

953
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,880
one of my daughters, but then I get these other feelings.

954
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:34,519
Speaker 2: End quote.

955
00:58:36,239 --> 00:58:40,679
Speaker 1: And ten months after Esmeralda rebuffed him, she was fired

956
00:58:40,719 --> 00:58:45,079
from her job at the Union health care clinic. And

957
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:49,679
then today also so the New York Times mentioned Dolores

958
00:58:49,719 --> 00:58:53,599
Wortha saying that she was also assaulted. And there's like

959
00:58:53,679 --> 00:58:55,840
a little bit of details in the New York Times

960
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,800
article along with the other three accounts. But then do

961
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,880
Lotus Werta released her own statement, which we will read.

962
00:59:02,639 --> 00:59:05,079
I am nearly ninety six years old and for the

963
00:59:05,199 --> 00:59:08,360
last sixty years have kept a secret because I believe

964
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,360
that exposing the truth would hurt the farm worker movement.

965
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,480
I have spent my entire life fighting for I have

966
00:59:14,599 --> 00:59:17,760
encouraged people to always use their voice. Following the New

967
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:22,079
York Times multi year investigation into sexual misconduct by Soasar Chavis,

968
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,480
I can no longer stay silent and must share my

969
00:59:24,519 --> 00:59:28,039
own experiences. As a young mother in the nineteen sixties,

970
00:59:28,119 --> 00:59:32,199
I experienced two separate sexual encounters with Sessad. The first time,

971
00:59:32,239 --> 00:59:34,920
I was manipulated and pressured into having sex with him,

972
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,719
and I didn't feel I could say no because he

973
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,599
was someone I admired, my boss and the leader of

974
00:59:40,599 --> 00:59:43,360
the movement. I had already devoted years of my life too.

975
00:59:44,159 --> 00:59:47,320
The second time, I was forced against my will and

976
00:59:47,519 --> 00:59:50,960
in an environment where I felt trapped. I had experienced

977
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,679
abuse and sexual violence before, and I convinced myself these

978
00:59:54,679 --> 00:59:57,360
were incidents that I had to endure alone and in secret.

979
00:59:58,039 --> 01:00:01,920
Both sexual encounters we was Sasad le to pregnancies. I

980
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,880
chose to keep my pregnancies secret, and after the children

981
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,400
were born, I arranged for them to be raised by

982
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:11,559
other families that could give them stable lives. Over the years,

983
01:00:11,599 --> 01:00:14,079
I have been fortunate to develop a deep relationship with

984
01:00:14,119 --> 01:00:16,960
these children, who are now close to my other children,

985
01:00:17,079 --> 01:00:20,400
their siblings. But even then, no one knew the truth,

986
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,880
the full truth about how they were conceived until just

987
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:27,119
a few weeks ago. I carried the secret for as

988
01:00:27,159 --> 01:00:29,639
long as I did because building the movement and securing

989
01:00:29,679 --> 01:00:33,039
farm worker rights was my life's work. The formation of

990
01:00:33,119 --> 01:00:35,880
a union was the only vehicle to accomplish and secure

991
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,719
those rights, and I wasn't going to let Sessat or

992
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,079
anyone else get in the way. I channeled everything into

993
01:00:42,119 --> 01:00:46,280
advocating on behalf of millions of farm workers and others

994
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,719
who were suffering and deserved equal rights. I have never

995
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,760
identified myself as a victim, but I now understand that

996
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,440
I am a survivor of violence, of sexual abuse, of

997
01:00:56,519 --> 01:00:59,960
domineering men who saw me and other women as proper

998
01:01:00,599 --> 01:01:04,159
or things to control. I am telling my story because

999
01:01:04,199 --> 01:01:06,880
The New York Times has indicated that I was not

1000
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:11,159
the only one. There were others. Women are coming forward

1001
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,519
sharing that they were sexually abused and assaulted by Sasad

1002
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:18,199
when they were girls and teenagers. The knowledge that he

1003
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,440
hurt young girls sickens me. My heart aches for everyone

1004
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,920
who suffered alone and in silence for years. There are

1005
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,159
no words strong enough to condemn those deplorable actions that

1006
01:01:28,239 --> 01:01:31,480
he did. Says, thus actions do not reflect the values

1007
01:01:31,519 --> 01:01:35,480
of our community and our movement. The farm worker movement

1008
01:01:35,519 --> 01:01:37,880
has always been bigger and far more important than any

1009
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,840
one individual. Says that's actions do not diminish the permanent

1010
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,679
improvement to achieve for farm workers with the help of

1011
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,480
thousands of people. We must continue to engage and support

1012
01:01:48,599 --> 01:01:53,199
our community, which needs advocacy and activism now more than ever.

1013
01:01:54,239 --> 01:01:57,239
I will continue my commitments to workers, as well as

1014
01:01:57,239 --> 01:02:00,440
my commitment to women's rights, to make sure we have

1015
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,440
a voice and that our communities are treated with dignity

1016
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,000
and given the equity that they have so long been denied.

1017
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,679
I have kept the secret long enough. My silence ends here.

1018
01:02:12,599 --> 01:02:14,519
If you are a survivor, or if you have been

1019
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:17,719
impacted by any type of flectional violence, please visit the

1020
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,039
lottesport the Foundation website, where you will find a list.

1021
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 2: Of resources for support. And that was her statement. I

1022
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,199
need a moment to collect myself.

1023
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: Yes, earlier, earlier, when I read her statement, it made

1024
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,519
me toirit, but like it didn't make me cry, but

1025
01:02:34,519 --> 01:02:37,320
I feel like it's like triggering so much for me

1026
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:42,880
right now, because I mean, how many women and girls

1027
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:48,199
and children have to be abused by men and remained

1028
01:02:48,239 --> 01:02:50,840
silent for years and years and years, And how many

1029
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:56,639
women out to endure workplace sexual harassment and violence and assault?

1030
01:02:57,719 --> 01:03:01,280
And how many women do we know personally that are

1031
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:05,199
survivors of abuse as children or as women by men?

1032
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:09,159
Because it's always a fucking man, and yet no man

1033
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:13,079
ever stand up for women, you know what I mean? Right?

1034
01:03:13,519 --> 01:03:15,840
And like, although I didn't, I didn't want to talk

1035
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,719
about a man during women's history months, this is part

1036
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:26,880
of it because the culture of patriarchy, this patriarchal culture, yeah,

1037
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:32,079
has given way to all of this. It's the reason

1038
01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:34,760
he was able to get away with us for so long. Yeah,

1039
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:38,079
And the reason why the women didn't feel like they

1040
01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:40,719
could say anything, because what is the first move to

1041
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,760
blame the women themselves? And people are doing it right now,

1042
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:49,000
Like we have like a one year old video just

1043
01:03:49,039 --> 01:03:52,519
talking about the immigration stuff, like s Se Travis and

1044
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:56,960
I posted that today on Instagram and immediately someone mentioned,

1045
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,800
like why did we that say?

1046
01:03:58,840 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 2: Signing it for so long?

1047
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,079
Speaker 1: She was how much does she know? And she's not

1048
01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:05,320
saying she probably knew about this and she was just

1049
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:09,239
protecting him, and it's like she was assaulted. What are

1050
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,679
you talking about. Yeah, she's like a survivor herself of this,

1051
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:15,880
and it's always put on the women's shoulders. It's the

1052
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,039
same thing people are saying about the epsin survivors, the

1053
01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:23,199
same thing they said about our killing survivors. Literally everyone,

1054
01:04:23,239 --> 01:04:25,639
it's like, oh, why didn't they say say something sooner?

1055
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,280
They let other women be abused? No, our culture they

1056
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:33,079
were scared or rape culture enables this. Yeah, because but

1057
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:36,599
also I feel like on top of like already this

1058
01:04:37,039 --> 01:04:44,559
country's rape culture, Mexico's machismo culture, like putting those those

1059
01:04:44,559 --> 01:04:47,840
are huge factors. But then you have to keep in

1060
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:52,800
mind the cult environment that the UfW was being ran in,

1061
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,559
Like that's why we included all the context that we did.

1062
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:02,960
They had this like unhealthy, unhealthy need to fight for

1063
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,559
the cause. This is something that already had in her,

1064
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:11,000
but they took advantage of that. They took advantage of

1065
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,159
that completely says their child has took advantage of that,

1066
01:05:14,599 --> 01:05:21,159
and he fostered a cult environment. Like that's like straight up,

1067
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:25,320
so of course people were afraid, but also men are

1068
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:29,639
going to enable men. His big supporters were men. His

1069
01:05:29,719 --> 01:05:33,119
bodyguard knew when he dropped him off or when they

1070
01:05:33,119 --> 01:05:38,800
picked up one of the survivors writing, people knew, and

1071
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:44,199
people defended him, just like it happens when you know you,

1072
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,800
like a family member comes forward and then you're like

1073
01:05:47,519 --> 01:05:49,920
another family member is like, oh, so and so is

1074
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,480
coming over. Don't wear any skirts?

1075
01:05:52,519 --> 01:05:54,719
Speaker 2: Like yeah, or if.

1076
01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 1: She was really afraid of him, if he was really

1077
01:05:56,559 --> 01:05:59,239
hurting her, then why would she go and you know,

1078
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,920
be playful with him or sitting near him or you

1079
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:05,280
know what I mean? Like always it's always something yeah,

1080
01:06:07,039 --> 01:06:11,559
and it's just yeah, it's infreu eating. And this takes

1081
01:06:11,599 --> 01:06:18,400
into everything we've been saying about feminism and how I

1082
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:24,519
don't know it needs to be accepted practiced.

1083
01:06:24,519 --> 01:06:27,159
Speaker 2: Like I think it needs to be practiced. Yeah.

1084
01:06:27,239 --> 01:06:33,719
Speaker 1: More people need to be feminists and realize that this

1085
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,239
is not about one man, right, This is about a

1086
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:42,760
culture that enables men like this to abuse women and children. Yeah,

1087
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:54,639
and untold we see women and children as deserving of humanity, yeah, right,

1088
01:06:54,679 --> 01:06:58,320
because they're viewed as property. And that is one reason

1089
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:04,159
why people like this find it so acceptable and easil

1090
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,440
easy to abuse women and children because they're viewed as

1091
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:12,119
property and not as full human beings like men are

1092
01:07:12,199 --> 01:07:23,360
you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly exactly and yeah,

1093
01:07:24,039 --> 01:07:28,719
oh actually no A couple more things. When these allegations

1094
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:32,519
have were brought to light, and like obviously people flooded

1095
01:07:32,599 --> 01:07:35,079
to social media. People have been making posts like their

1096
01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:38,480
discourse has begun, right, like we sat at the top

1097
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,639
of this episode or somewhere in the middle like that

1098
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:46,119
whatever discourse that's gonna happen needs to center like the

1099
01:07:46,159 --> 01:07:49,880
survivors and their voices, which is not a lot of

1100
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,880
like it's what I'm seeing is the opposite. Yeah, again

1101
01:07:54,559 --> 01:08:03,199
blaming calling this a conspiracy, saying that, oh right, when

1102
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:09,199
farm workers are trying to fight against uh, their rights

1103
01:08:09,199 --> 01:08:12,559
being taken away, this comes out to like devalue but

1104
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,559
their work or their union. But it's like sins such

1105
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:19,479
Javis was one man. He is not the whole union. Yeah,

1106
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:23,560
regardless of whatever Chavis has I mean, regardless of everything

1107
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:27,279
so such Javis has done. This doesn't take away from

1108
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,880
that the fact that farm workers need to be paid

1109
01:08:30,039 --> 01:08:32,479
like a again, he never did that alone, age, No,

1110
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:33,560
he never did that alone.

1111
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 2: He never did.

1112
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: So that's like another thing I'm seeing that it's a conspiracy.

1113
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:39,840
Other people are saying it's a conspiracy to take away

1114
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,119
from the Epstein files, or like why now, why there

1115
01:08:43,119 --> 01:08:45,159
are the Times released this now They've been working on

1116
01:08:45,159 --> 01:08:49,039
this herve for years years. Yeah, and the other stuff

1117
01:08:49,079 --> 01:08:51,960
has been known, and there's there's never a wrong time

1118
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:57,720
for survivors of sexual abuse to disclose their abuse. Yeah,

1119
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:02,119
and the the right time is when they say it

1120
01:09:02,239 --> 01:09:07,119
like there's yeah, no other it's underbuds about it exactly exactly.

1121
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:09,399
And so that's like another thing that I'm seeing that's

1122
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:13,520
really off putting. Not everything revolves around the United States

1123
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:18,920
and the Epstein files. Yeah. Plus, sorry to say it

1124
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,800
just reminds me so back when I was training to

1125
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:29,720
work at the net work to volunteer at organization that helps.

1126
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,560
Now they're not so women focused, they're like more about

1127
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:39,680
all survivors of sexual abuse and interpersonal violence. But back

1128
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:42,399
then they were like a woman's like sheltered type place

1129
01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:47,439
and they helped survivors of rape. And so I was

1130
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:52,319
training and one of the things I learned about is

1131
01:09:52,720 --> 01:10:01,680
the rampant sexual harassment and abuse that women migrant workers

1132
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:06,279
in the field's face and all and this is it.

1133
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,159
This is like the same thing that we're talking about now,

1134
01:10:08,239 --> 01:10:11,560
Like this has been going on forever, right back then

1135
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,399
when sees their childs was doing it and the people

1136
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:19,479
under him and every other supervisor out there know what

1137
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:20,840
they call them, but you know what I mean, and

1138
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:24,479
every other like man working next to their fellow peers

1139
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:30,680
of women coworkers abusing them. And most of these women

1140
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,439
were undocumented and they were afraid to report.

1141
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like just one more.

1142
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: Vulnerable you know, position that they're in, that another reason

1143
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:48,439
that they don't report, Yes, And yeah, I think that's

1144
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,520
like that's a good stopping point for this episode. But yeah,

1145
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,119
like not everything is a distraction for something else. We

1146
01:10:55,199 --> 01:10:57,640
can hold many truths at the same time. We can

1147
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:02,399
hold information and uphold survive right and believe them, Yeah,

1148
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,880
and believe them, and yeah, let's stop like having this

1149
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:12,039
culture where victims and survivors of sexual abuse can't come

1150
01:11:12,079 --> 01:11:16,840
forward because the reality is that nobody believes them.

1151
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 2: They are blamed.

1152
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: And if we didn't have this culture, these women would

1153
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:25,920
have shared their truths longer ago. Yep, Like I can't

1154
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:30,439
even imagine being ninety six. And finally, you know, sharing

1155
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:36,199
your truth about that, like that's wild, right right. It's infuriating,

1156
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:38,159
it really is. And that's why I was like crying,

1157
01:11:38,199 --> 01:11:40,039
like it's here's the anger and I'm about to cry again.

1158
01:11:42,039 --> 01:11:45,239
It just takes me back, okay, like years ago, and well,

1159
01:11:45,239 --> 01:11:46,600
well let's end in and I'll tell you.

1160
01:11:47,359 --> 01:11:50,399
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I don't know how to like end this.

1161
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:54,960
Speaker 1: Just fuck this rape culture, Fuck the patriarchy, believe survivors,

1162
01:11:55,399 --> 01:11:56,479
Thank you, yes.

1163
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,359
Speaker 2: Goodbye, goodbye.

1164
01:12:00,039 --> 01:12:03,239
Speaker 1: Spooktaels is hosted by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited

1165
01:12:03,239 --> 01:12:06,640
by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen, and with the help

1166
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:09,159
of Don Shout Out Don. If you aren't joining the

1167
01:12:09,159 --> 01:12:11,560
podcast considerably going to say five star review, we would

1168
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:13,840
really appreciate it. If you don't want to the professor review,

1169
01:12:14,079 --> 01:12:16,039
just don't leave a review, but don't leave anything lower

1170
01:12:16,039 --> 01:12:18,319
than that, please, I'm just kidding. You can reach out

1171
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:21,000
to the podcast at a spooktols at gmail dot com.

1172
01:12:21,039 --> 01:12:23,239
You can go to our website at bookitos dot com

1173
01:12:23,279 --> 01:12:25,640
and fill out the contact form. If you want to

1174
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,319
support the podcast, you can join our Patreon, where we

1175
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:32,479
send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. Eight dollar members get

1176
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,840
an exclusive keychain. It's super cool. I got new ones

1177
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,319
and these ones are huge. And if you want to

1178
01:12:38,319 --> 01:12:40,680
support but you can or don't want to join the Patreon,

1179
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:43,720
that's fine too. You can also get some merch. You

1180
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:47,319
can find shrew sessay, Spooky and old English letters.

1181
01:12:47,399 --> 01:12:49,159
Speaker 2: There's a beanie. I love the beanie.

1182
01:12:49,199 --> 01:12:53,560
Speaker 1: There's also a hat. There's a no Mamus shirt which

1183
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:57,319
is a fan favorite. There's a lot of options, crap TOMPs, sweaters.

1184
01:12:57,359 --> 01:13:01,000
It's almost wetter weather. We're nearing a SPOOKI c so yeah,

1185
01:13:01,119 --> 01:13:03,159
get your hoodies. You're gonna need them. If you don't

1186
01:13:03,159 --> 01:13:05,119
want to do all that, that's fine too. You can

1187
01:13:05,199 --> 01:13:07,600
just listen like you're listening now, and that's the best

1188
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:09,479
support that you can give us. Like I always say

1189
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,199
in our ad break and yeah, I feel like history.

1190
01:13:12,239 --> 01:13:17,079
You can follow Estoria's Unknown Mining, Carmen's other podcasts, and

1191
01:13:17,399 --> 01:13:19,199
you can find as Spooky taels on all of our

1192
01:13:19,239 --> 01:13:22,239
socials at a Spooky Tells All. This is in the

1193
01:13:22,279 --> 01:13:26,000
show notes and we appreciate every single listen. Thank you

1194
01:13:26,119 --> 01:13:26,680
so much.

1195
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:27,600
Speaker 2: Stay as Spooky