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Speaker 2: time delinging Cidia with Chuck Ingraman fifty five krs the
Speaker 2: talk station, Hey.
Speaker 1: Thirty fifty five KRCD Talk Station, Happy Friday. Not a
Speaker 1: happy subject matter, but a happy outcome for the children
Speaker 1: in the state of Behind on a going forward basis.
Speaker 1: Governor Mike Dwineseina bill into law this week making it
Speaker 1: a crime for predators to groom a child for sexual
Speaker 1: abuse using a pattern of behavior. A woman responsible a
Speaker 1: large part Ohioans for Child Protections. Rebecca Serendorff is on
Speaker 1: the phone to talk about her journey to get this
Speaker 1: bill enacted. Rebecca, initially, let me thank you on behalf
Speaker 1: of myself personally and my listening audience and every parent
Speaker 1: of a young child out there for getting this pass.
Speaker 1: And over the finish line, what I'm reading about this,
Speaker 1: this father Cutcher, for example, is just absolutely horrific and disgusting.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the fifty five or Morning Show, Rebecca.
Speaker 3: Good morning, and thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Really, this was such a collaborative effort from moms and
Speaker 4: dads and grandparents picking up the phone and calling lawmakers
Speaker 4: to our bill sponsors, Bill Sites and Cindy Abrams and
Speaker 4: great committee heads like Manning and Hillier, that helped usher
Speaker 4: this through. We had floor speeches from both sides the
Speaker 4: aisle and support and it went through unanimously in the
Speaker 4: Senate and.
Speaker 3: All but one vote in the House.
Speaker 4: So this really took a village and hopefully we'll be
Speaker 4: able to collaborate again because there's way too much sex
Speaker 4: abuse in our state.
Speaker 1: Well, it really is, and you know, the job is
Speaker 1: not over. As I'm I'm looking at the reporting from
Speaker 1: wcpo's Paula Christian who was following this story, Ohio is
Speaker 1: the sixth that's six, number six in the nation to
Speaker 1: criminalize child grooming for sex. I find that impossible to believe. Rebecca.
Speaker 1: I do you have any concept as how or why
Speaker 1: that might be? Because we've had the Internet and you know,
Speaker 1: social media and the like, which makes it so easy
Speaker 1: for perverts to reach out to children, people pretend to
Speaker 1: be young people and make friends online. We've heard story
Speaker 1: after story after story, and it has been going on
Speaker 1: for years. How is it that more states haven't done
Speaker 1: something about this?
Speaker 4: Well, I think in part, it's a few factors, right.
Speaker 4: I think in our imaginations, a lot of us were
Speaker 4: raised with the concept of stranger danger, right, But the
Speaker 4: facts of child sex abuse is most children know their offender,
Speaker 4: and many families know them and trust them. When you
Speaker 4: look at online abuse right now, University of New Hampshire
Speaker 4: estimates that about one in six kids in our country
Speaker 4: are being exploited online and over sixty percent of those
Speaker 4: offenders online already know your child and their offline life.
Speaker 4: Many times they're presenting themselves as somebody else in peerage, right,
Speaker 4: And so, first of all, there's a lot of misconceptions
Speaker 4: about that how this works.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We also as.
Speaker 4: Parents believe that because we sat down and talked to
Speaker 4: our kids about these things such a stranger danger or
Speaker 4: that people shouldn't touch you into certain places, that your child.
Speaker 3: Will come home and tell you about the assault.
Speaker 4: And the sad reality is that delayed disclosure is a
Speaker 4: real problem for a child after they've been assaulted. Many
Speaker 4: offenders will threaten a child, They manipulate them in ways
Speaker 4: to make the child feel as if they're wrongly complicit
Speaker 4: in this abuse. They'll threaten to harm another sibling if
Speaker 4: they disclose, and also PTSD and trauma. Usually a child
Speaker 4: can be disassociating. There's a lot happening in the aftermath
Speaker 4: of assault, and your child may not come home and
Speaker 4: tell you, and sometimes just fear will you believe them
Speaker 4: is a problem. So it's that we have programs like
Speaker 4: Aaron'swall that was just passed two years ago, but sadly
Speaker 4: all the religious schools in our state were carved out
Speaker 4: of that, so we're not equally protecting the kids.
Speaker 3: It's only the public school kids with.
Speaker 4: Aaron's Law training, and that's age appropriate body safety training.
Speaker 4: And many people will tell you that after a large
Speaker 4: school has that training, they have a few children step
Speaker 4: forward at the end of it because this is trained
Speaker 4: professionals that know how to phrase things in the right
Speaker 4: way for the age of a child.
Speaker 3: And their understanding.
Speaker 4: And it just gets to a different level because many
Speaker 4: times you have to describe a behavior, like a forensic nurse,
Speaker 4: for example, is not going to ask someone have you
Speaker 4: been ranked? They will maybe describe the circumstances. That is
Speaker 4: because even labeling what an assault is is its own
Speaker 4: process for any age victim, right, So getting evidence based
Speaker 4: approaches is so key, and that's why we've been calling
Speaker 4: for Sexual Violence Caucus up at the state House. We
Speaker 4: would like to get all the minds to the table,
Speaker 4: from lawmakers to forensic nurses, to the good folks at
Speaker 4: Ohio Liancedend Sexual Violence, the Council and child Abuse. There's
Speaker 4: so many great organizations in our state and law enforcement,
Speaker 4: the prosecutors. Get these people to the table, and let's
Speaker 4: start taking a comprehensive approach to updating our laws, because
Speaker 4: predators are always updating what they're doing and how they're
Speaker 4: exploiting our children, and the legislative process can take a
Speaker 4: long time.
Speaker 3: This bill took five years to get to the finish line.
Speaker 4: Yes, I think of all the children that were exploited
Speaker 4: in that time. Status the Girls Report says one in
Speaker 4: five girls were sexually assaulted in Ohio in the last
Speaker 4: twelve months.
Speaker 3: When they did a climate survey of our young.
Speaker 1: God, one in five.
Speaker 4: One in five, we're above the national average. Can you
Speaker 4: imagine if one in five cars were stolen this year?
Speaker 1: Ah, they d be screaming, bloody nightmare. All let's ill
Speaker 1: tell you what. We're not done with this conversation, Rebecca.
Speaker 1: I want to hold you over and talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about it. I'm also curious to know about
Speaker 1: the lone no vote. But I want you to enlighten
Speaker 1: my listeners as to how this will work, and how
Speaker 1: this this grooming process and how far it has to
Speaker 1: go before they might find themselves subject to criminal liability
Speaker 1: under this new law. Will continue with and thank God
Speaker 1: for her, Rebecca Cerndorf after these brief words.
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Speaker 1: might be covered with snow slick to be careful low
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty eight to high tomorrow mostly cloudy, partly
Speaker 1: thoty over night down to twenty and a partly cloudy
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Speaker 2: on fifty five krs the talk station.
Speaker 1: A thirty nine coming right eighty forty fifty five kerc
Speaker 1: detalk station. There are good people out in the world,
Speaker 1: and there's some terrible people out in the world. One
Speaker 1: of the good ones so fighting for protecting our young
Speaker 1: people from molesters and would be child rapist Rebecca Cerndorf
Speaker 1: on the program High Winds for Child Protection. It's easy
Speaker 1: to find her organization if you're a Facebook on Facebook,
Speaker 1: just search Ohilands for Child Protection to take your right
Speaker 1: to the web page. And congratulations on getting Mike Dwayne
Speaker 1: to sign this. It only took five years to get
Speaker 1: the bill that criminalizes grooming. And you mentioned it was
Speaker 1: unanimous with the exception of one House vote. Can I
Speaker 1: ask why that was it? Was it a no vote
Speaker 1: or an abstention vote? And I was there any reason
Speaker 1: associated with not embracing this seemingly I mean bulletproof from
Speaker 1: a need standpoint bill.
Speaker 4: We'd never circled back with the lawmaker. But I would
Speaker 4: imagine that maybe they just wanted to just register that
Speaker 4: like a pause there of like let's.
Speaker 3: Make sure it's narrow enough.
Speaker 4: And that's a good thing to have, is whenever you're
Speaker 4: looking to criminalize something, particularly when you're going to have
Speaker 4: a new crime in your state, you want to make
Speaker 4: sure that it's constructed in such a way that it
Speaker 4: won't be tossed out for beg or that your nets
Speaker 4: so wide that you would sweep up innocent people, because
Speaker 4: that is not our intention in any way. And after
Speaker 4: further vetting of this bill, everyone became much more comfortable
Speaker 4: with it. And it's great that that's how this process.
Speaker 3: Works in committee.
Speaker 4: And and basically this is constructed to kind of mirror
Speaker 4: other parts of Ohio Revised Code, like pattern of behavior
Speaker 4: in grooming mimics that in stalking and stalking itself. Individual
Speaker 4: behaviors in stalking can be relatively innocent, right, Like if
Speaker 4: someone going past your house this morning, completely innocent behavior,
Speaker 4: isn't it. But if they came past your house eighty
Speaker 4: times in.
Speaker 3: The one week, combined with like they show at your.
Speaker 5: Job site, Yeah right, I mean we all know the
Speaker 5: difference between like innocent behavior, creepy behavior, and clearly there's
Speaker 5: more to this threatening behavior right right, And then that
Speaker 5: ties into this reasonable adult standard which.
Speaker 3: Is all over us laws.
Speaker 4: Is this notion of would any reasonable adults see that
Speaker 4: the purpose and purpose is also another keyword when it
Speaker 4: comes toime writing laws. It is a higher standard than
Speaker 4: for example, recklessness, right exactly, so does a reasonable adult
Speaker 4: see that this was for the purpose of sex abuse?
Speaker 4: And then the teering mirrors also are sexual battery laws.
Speaker 4: So if this is someone in a position of authority
Speaker 4: over a minor, such as a teacher or a coach,
Speaker 4: or a youth minister or a cleric, you now have
Speaker 4: a different tier for that. It also tiars it for
Speaker 4: if there's drugs and alcohol and if the victim is
Speaker 4: under thirteen years of age.
Speaker 3: So this starts out as a mistamean and it becomes
Speaker 3: a felony.
Speaker 4: Based off of if you have priors for sex offenses
Speaker 4: as well, because we were still leaving the door open
Speaker 4: for like someone did not realize like how very problematic
Speaker 4: their behavior with a mirus that they have a chance
Speaker 4: to clean it up.
Speaker 3: If they don't have that.
Speaker 4: Special relationship as a position of authority over the minor
Speaker 4: and that, But we wanted something that's going to come
Speaker 4: up on a background check, right, all these youth serving
Speaker 4: lords with background checks, If they can't see that you
Speaker 4: have a history of grooming minors, then how are they
Speaker 4: going to guard the gate as to who has a
Speaker 4: lot of access and authority over children?
Speaker 1: Fair enough? And I you know, as I sit here,
Speaker 1: part of this reasonable standard I suppose is under what circumstances.
Speaker 1: And I personally, with the exception of you know, my
Speaker 1: and my children grown. My son's thirty, my daughter's twenty eight,
Speaker 1: but I'm projecting backwards and I'm remembering when they were younger.
Speaker 1: I might have a reason if I'm trying to find
Speaker 1: where my son is in these in these technological age,
Speaker 1: we already kids got cell phones. Anyway, The only reason
Speaker 1: I can think I would even be interacting with someone
Speaker 1: who is this young would be maybe to try to
Speaker 1: track down my son. But that would be an innocuous
Speaker 1: sort of hey do you know where Jerry is? Kind
Speaker 1: of thing. It's a fair question to ask one of
Speaker 1: his friends, even if they're only twelve years old. But
Speaker 1: beyond that, why would any grown adult have reason to
Speaker 1: regularly communicate with a minor along these lines when they're
Speaker 1: not you know, a parental figure or someone that has
Speaker 1: an in local parentice relationship to that young child.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, there are forty two grooming behaviors that were
Speaker 4: found in some research by Winters in jeglists out of
Speaker 4: John Jay College.
Speaker 3: If I recall, and basically the.
Speaker 4: More these behaviors you see, the more that this is
Speaker 4: probably escalating or that abuse has already occurred. And they
Speaker 4: basically researched what was normal mentor behavior with people had
Speaker 4: never been abused and those that were, And there's a
Speaker 4: whole series of red flag behaviors that you're in a
Speaker 4: high risk situation if you were seeing this, and some
Speaker 4: of it is creating circumstances like we saw with the
Speaker 4: San Dusty case, creating circumstances to be showering with the youth,
Speaker 4: right that you were creating circumstances for nudity, like encouraging
Speaker 4: young people the skinny dip with you, which we see
Speaker 4: in some of the investigative reports have been done on
Speaker 4: historic church abuse as well. Also adults that are texting minors.
Speaker 3: About sex acts. But it is clearly not in the
Speaker 3: spirit of sex ed.
Speaker 4: We all know what that really looks like in life, right,
Speaker 4: it's usually your health teacher or the parent custodian of
Speaker 4: the child having a discussion with them, many times bringing
Speaker 4: thoughtful resources, particularly in a classroom setting. I mean, we
Speaker 4: all know how this is done right out of the
Speaker 4: health books, right, and this instead, like if you look
Speaker 4: at the culture case, I can't even quote some of
Speaker 4: the content there.
Speaker 3: Oh, I know on the region because it's better regulated.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, I'm reading some of it right now. This
Speaker 1: is why I this is text messages back and forth.
Speaker 1: And I again, I'm trying to envision the circumstances why
Speaker 1: any adult would need to engage in any type of
Speaker 1: long back and forth regularly occurring discussion with someone of
Speaker 1: that age. And this kid was I guess fourteen years
Speaker 1: old or I don't know, but for this this minister
Speaker 1: to be we have a regularly engaged This is not
Speaker 1: providing counseling or ministry. This isn't you know, coming into
Speaker 1: the priest's office and sitting down and getting advice about
Speaker 1: the lord or something object.
Speaker 4: And I think as parents and concerned adults, I would
Speaker 4: see this as that when you're seeing things that are
Speaker 4: starting to add up.
Speaker 3: And you're concerned.
Speaker 4: Right, First of all, like start monitoring the situation. Better,
Speaker 4: consider this like a yellow light situation here, and.
Speaker 3: If this is happening at a school, you may.
Speaker 4: Want to start documenting the concerns or co child protective services.
Speaker 3: This is one of the things we hope.
Speaker 4: Will come of this is that now when you're reporting
Speaker 4: grooming behavior, you are now reporting a crime potentially, right.
Speaker 3: And in the past this wasn't quite categorized.
Speaker 4: As anything because it's very rare for someone to witness
Speaker 4: the sexual assault, and these things happen behind closed doors.
Speaker 4: The grooming is the smoke and there's usually a fire, right,
Speaker 4: But the responsible adults see the grooming behavior and sometimes
Speaker 4: because these are young children, were miss seeing the larger
Speaker 4: context here. Like in the father Jeff Drew case, we
Speaker 4: saw reports from boys in three different counting over the
Speaker 4: course of multiple decades from the eighties right up until
Speaker 4: a few years before his arrest, that they were reporting
Speaker 4: they didn't like the hugs from behind. The hugs from behind. Well,
Speaker 4: these are young children. They knew they didn't like the
Speaker 4: hugs from behind. But it wasn't until I heard the
Speaker 4: victim impact statement two years after Drew's arrest when he
Speaker 4: was pleading guilty that the victim spelled out as an
Speaker 4: adult man that Drew was aroused and rubbing himself on
Speaker 4: that that's already a.
Speaker 3: Crime in Ohio.
Speaker 4: Right, But this gets back to vocabulary and the young mind.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: The child isn't the vocabulary for it. It'd be very
Speaker 4: difficult to train them to understand that moment better. Yes,
Speaker 4: but take into account the alarm.
Speaker 3: That your child has.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: Your child isn't coming home to report a hug that
Speaker 4: felt good. They're coming home because their body was telling
Speaker 4: them that they were in danger. And if anything, tell
Speaker 4: your child to trust themselves and their instincts. If someone's
Speaker 4: making them feel sick to their stomach, they should tell.
Speaker 3: You about it.
Speaker 4: And they don't have to unpack it for you today,
Speaker 4: but they're allowed to proceed with caution. And I think
Speaker 4: it's also good for children to have a safe word.
Speaker 4: One of the the great moms that we spoke to
Speaker 4: that's retired from working with exploited children, she said, it's
Speaker 4: great for your child to have something that they can
Speaker 4: text you or say to you. I think they're quite verifiable,
Speaker 4: but lets you know that they don't feel safe in
Speaker 4: this moment, whether it's a sleepover.
Speaker 1: Or uncle your child's hanging out it Uncle Jim's down
Speaker 1: the street too regularly that I mean, like that that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Red flag. Wait, why is a grown person?
Speaker 1: Why is a grown man spending so much time with
Speaker 1: my minor child? You know, outside of the regular confines
Speaker 1: of the norm. Like again, going to church and seeing
Speaker 1: the priest, that's one thing, But if the priest is
Speaker 1: inviting your child over to his house, that's a completely
Speaker 1: different thing right there.
Speaker 4: And I think this happens gradually, right like, these things
Speaker 4: start off looking innocent and then they take a dark turn,
Speaker 4: and it's important to just kind of reframe it.
Speaker 3: Think of the other.
Speaker 4: Trusted adults in your life, your child's life, and then
Speaker 4: just take these behaviors, plug in different names, and if
Speaker 4: it sounds bizarre, you need to rethink.
Speaker 3: Is this perceived with a ton of caution?
Speaker 4: Or are we picking up the phone and calling child
Speaker 4: Protective Services about it or the police?
Speaker 3: And by all.
Speaker 4: Means, watch your child's social media used.
Speaker 3: I can't tell you, oh snaptat coming up.
Speaker 1: But also you hit upon one of them pet peeves
Speaker 1: right there. We have so much capability to control our
Speaker 1: children's interactions online. You have special software you can put
Speaker 1: on You can monitor your child's online behavior remotely, but
Speaker 1: just by installing the appropriate app. I don't know why
Speaker 1: more adults just don't do that as a default mechanism. Period.
Speaker 1: End of story, Rebecca. All I can tell you is
Speaker 1: thank you very much, and I'm just imagining down the
Speaker 1: road all of the children you have saved from the
Speaker 1: next step after the initiation of this grooming process. Lord Almighty,
Speaker 1: Rebecca ser.
Speaker 4: Has one hundred and fifty victims. So if we can
Speaker 4: stop them early in their offending timeline, we can save
Speaker 4: thousands of kids.
Speaker 1: Thousands from a lifetime of psychological harm. Let us not
Speaker 1: ignore that reality. Rebecca. Thanks again on behalf of everybody
Speaker 1: in the state of Ohio and all the other states
Speaker 1: out there get on board to have a wonderful weekend, Rebecca,
Speaker 1: and thanks again for your work. It's eight fifty two
Speaker 1: if if you have KC
Speaker 4: Detalk Station fifty five KRC a U line the prevailing
Speaker 4: opinion