Speaker 1: Mac, great news. The Christmas stuff is up without a
Speaker 1: hitch Ooh yeah.
Speaker 2: If you're new to the program, here, I'd like to
Speaker 2: introduce you to Goo, who puts up his Christmas tree
Speaker 2: the first weekend of November every year.
Speaker 1: Just a Christmas girly. What do you want from me?
Speaker 2: Is your topper still the Iron Man?
Speaker 1: Yep, it's the Iron Man. But what I'm thinking about
Speaker 1: doing this year is, because he has his hand up
Speaker 1: like this, I'm gonna cut a hole in his palm
Speaker 1: and then stick a Christmas tree light through it like
Speaker 1: he's shooting a laser.
Speaker 2: Ah. Yes, nice.
Speaker 1: Also, so you weren't here the day after Halloween, I
Speaker 1: was going to discuss this with you. Then I had
Speaker 1: Nick Fryer filling and we had a time. We had
Speaker 1: a great time.
Speaker 2: Nick Fryar is a man who writes and speaks for
Speaker 2: a living, and boy does he have trouble understanding the
Speaker 2: English language. He is an interesting fellaw.
Speaker 1: Number one, he is my favorite character on the Mac
Speaker 1: and Goo program, and that includes us. And then two,
Speaker 1: so you had so you listened to it right?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Where do you stand on the spelling of key New?
Speaker 1: Was I correct?
Speaker 2: I think Friar was right about that, so you could.
Speaker 2: I saw your argument, but I think if you just
Speaker 2: do K, it might be pronounced more like k e h.
Speaker 2: I think if you wanted the key sound, you needed
Speaker 2: the k e e or k e.
Speaker 1: Y k e hy. I said that as I was thinking,
Speaker 1: I know, he should have definitely have said key. I
Speaker 1: don't know why he would think ka, But I'll go
Speaker 1: ahead and just accept that for what it is. I'll
Speaker 1: take the l I will be the bigger man.
Speaker 2: Yes, to be fair, half the headlines right for me.
Speaker 2: I also don't understand when I'm reading them, and then
Speaker 2: when I'm saying them out loud, then they sort of
Speaker 2: sort of make sense.
Speaker 1: Roll with it, baby, Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Also, so
Speaker 1: Halloween is over. I lost my costume competition at work,
Speaker 1: and I think the thing that we all need to
Speaker 1: point to is that I was not doing this for
Speaker 1: a demo of men aged thirty five to forty two.
Speaker 2: You gotta know your crowd, gotta know my crowd.
Speaker 1: And went as Casey Jones specifically from the nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: seven animated series.
Speaker 2: Did You Make the Winners? Platform the top three to no.
Speaker 1: I came nowhere close to it. As a matter of fact, Wow,
Speaker 1: I lost to a Ronald McDonald who did a fantastic
Speaker 1: job with the whole costume in the face pen. I
Speaker 1: lost to someone who just bought a Batman costume. People
Speaker 1: know who Batman is? I get it.
Speaker 2: Which Batman was?
Speaker 1: He? Roughly he was Robert Pattinson.
Speaker 2: Oh so a real darkish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the dark one. And he did the eye makeup.
Speaker 1: So credit there, I'll give him credit for that. And
Speaker 1: then a team of eight one third place, and I
Speaker 1: would assume that they all voted for themselves.
Speaker 2: A team of eight, Yes, well, I do get I
Speaker 2: appreciate the coordination of eight people on the same page. However,
Speaker 2: it's kind of cheating.
Speaker 1: Well, yes, And I would also think that you would
Speaker 1: do the old Hey, if you vote for me, I'll
Speaker 1: vote for you, and then you still vote for yourself,
Speaker 1: right right? Have you ever voted? I know you've played
Speaker 1: on teams, You've you've done sports.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you ever vote yourself as captain?
Speaker 2: No? I don't think I ever cared enough to be
Speaker 2: officially named as a captain. I think I was. I
Speaker 2: would speak up every now and then, but I was
Speaker 2: more of a lead by example type of guy. Then
Speaker 2: I think I'm more of a vocal type of leader.
Speaker 1: You're a real Jason Tatum always but voting for yourself.
Speaker 2: And I remember one specific kid that did this for
Speaker 2: the baseball team. Uh, it makes you a real fucking asshole,
Speaker 2: that's what it does.
Speaker 1: So also with my Halloween costume, I put it on
Speaker 1: at my house before, you know, leaving for work, and
Speaker 1: my wife said to me, I have no idea what
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be, which should have been an early
Speaker 1: sign not to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, being that the person you've spent every waking day
Speaker 2: of your.
Speaker 1: Life decade last I don't know, yeah, last decade.
Speaker 2: Ten years. If she doesn't recognize your Casey Jones, then
Speaker 2: I'm not sure anyone you work with will. So what
Speaker 2: did you get for? Like?
Speaker 1: Did people ask you? What did I get for? What
Speaker 1: did I get for the last two I got nothing?
Speaker 1: Oh ah, I got spooky Golfer I got Someone asked
Speaker 1: me Fellows from Street Fighter? Oh I got someone asked
Speaker 1: me if I was the if I was the Sportsman
Speaker 1: or something like that from DC Comics. I can't think
Speaker 1: of what the name is, but there was a character
Speaker 1: that's kind of like Casey Jones.
Speaker 2: Buttles now technically a part of DC.
Speaker 1: No there, so they're still idw It's a whole different thing.
Speaker 1: But also I got a lot of people just having
Speaker 1: no idea. And then I was like, all right, no
Speaker 1: one knows, Like less than twenty percent of my co
Speaker 1: workers knew who I was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not great, No, and that's on me. That's like,
Speaker 2: you know, you're thinking you've got a great joke and
Speaker 2: then telling someone, then you got to explain the joke
Speaker 2: because they don't laugh.
Speaker 1: And that was the whole thing too, is that when
Speaker 1: someone said to me, oh, what are you, I would
Speaker 1: say I'm not going to answer. You have to figure
Speaker 1: it out. And if you don't know, I didn't do
Speaker 1: my job, do some homework. One good, three, Yeah, jobs three,
Speaker 1: King of Queen MARYL.
Speaker 3: Street entry go and I'm Max and we are the
Speaker 3: Mac and Goo program.
Speaker 1: We are and down down down the road down, which
Speaker 1: is Riches Road. Good.
Speaker 2: We are a couple of hashtag agathoughts. That's right, I'm
Speaker 2: stealing that from screen crush.
Speaker 1: I don't like that one.
Speaker 2: Go ahead thoughts for Agatha. All along we are discussing,
Speaker 2: if it wasn't clear already, the latest entry into the
Speaker 2: Marvel Cinematic Universe, Agatha all along. This is the forty
Speaker 2: fourth entry overall into the MCU. It's a lot, but
Speaker 2: forty forty fifth for us because we were splitting the
Speaker 2: two seasons of Loki. Uh so that's thirty four movies
Speaker 2: and eleven seasons of television.
Speaker 1: Go, it's a lot.
Speaker 2: It's a lot. It's a lot. And when we got
Speaker 2: to endgame, I think that was like twenty one or
Speaker 2: something like that or close to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like double that now. Yeah, sort of sort
Speaker 1: of crazy. It's like rabbits.
Speaker 2: It's it's been a long whine.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Road.
Speaker 1: Was this song the song that you're singing right now,
Speaker 1: the Witches Road? Did you find it to be an earworm?
Speaker 2: I was actually singing the Long and Winding Road, but
Speaker 2: the Beatles.
Speaker 1: There they're doing Long and Winding Witching Road.
Speaker 2: I would say, Uh, it's sort of caught on to
Speaker 2: me by the end, especially after the finale when you
Speaker 2: when it was there's a bit of a thing there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I kind of liked it by the end, didn't care
Speaker 2: for it for the most part, and then by the
Speaker 2: end it wrote me in so yes, a bit of
Speaker 2: an airworm.
Speaker 1: May I pay the show a compliment. Sure, Sure, I
Speaker 1: think it's different enough from the other Marvel properties.
Speaker 2: I think what really helps this show was a low
Speaker 2: bar for most people going in and go speaking to
Speaker 2: that point, and I was gonna make this point in
Speaker 2: a few minutes. I think what I'm discovering about myself. Yes,
Speaker 2: as an MCU fan for the last I don't know, eleven, twelve,
Speaker 2: thirteen years, now, I think I'm really starting to like
Speaker 2: these sort of like quirky side quests in the MCU.
Speaker 2: I've learned to appreciate them for what they are.
Speaker 1: Because you've always hated them. You have always been like, Eh,
Speaker 1: they're just kicking the can down the road. I don't
Speaker 1: want these shit.
Speaker 2: Well two things, Yeah. The number one, they've sort of
Speaker 2: figured out how to use it to round out some
Speaker 2: characters that they've introduced and or introduced characters that are
Speaker 2: gonna play a role in the future. We think, instead
Speaker 2: of sort of taking more known characters and shooting for
Speaker 2: the stars, we've seen that really not work. However, you know,
Speaker 2: Loki season one did so, I like, you know, the
Speaker 2: downside of this is you get into shit that we
Speaker 2: don't care about, like Echo, But this I felt like
Speaker 2: did a good job of balancing that we cared enough
Speaker 2: about where it was going and we cared enough about
Speaker 2: the characters involved, whereas a show like Echo, which I
Speaker 2: think was the most recent entry show wise, we just
Speaker 2: didn't didn't care anything about that, and so I feel
Speaker 2: like this one did that well enough anyways, at least
Speaker 2: going into it.
Speaker 1: Echo is a good one to bring up, because I
Speaker 1: would say Echo, secret invasion, No it secret war, Sorry,
Speaker 1: an invasion. There's a couple here that I would definitely
Speaker 1: put below in the I don't care a meter, but
Speaker 1: I definitely had that during this show. I definitely had
Speaker 1: a lot of moments of just not caring about what
Speaker 1: happens on this show.
Speaker 2: I would say the only show going in that I
Speaker 2: had lower expectations for were actually two Echo and She Hulk,
Speaker 2: and I think very quickly, not very quickly, about three
Speaker 2: episodes in, it really wrote me in and I was
Speaker 2: really intrigued as to where this show was going. That
Speaker 2: definitely helps how I view this show and how I
Speaker 2: ended up sort of coming around and really liking this show.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting to compare this to a show like
Speaker 2: WandaVision by the same creator, Jack Schaeffer where we went
Speaker 2: in with the highest of high of expectations and then
Speaker 2: and that's sort of what I'm talking about, Like, they're
Speaker 2: almost better off coming in with these you know, characters
Speaker 2: off to the side and doing something with them instead
Speaker 2: of coming in with the Scarlet Witch and kind of
Speaker 2: disappointing people then and even though they by the end
Speaker 2: of it, these shows might be kind of even for me.
Speaker 2: So that's sort of what I'm getting at.
Speaker 1: WandaVision did not disappoint WandaVision was great.
Speaker 2: All right, I mean you were kind of disappointed by it.
Speaker 1: So I was disappointed by the final episode of them
Speaker 1: throwing light at each other after having eight episodes of
Speaker 1: amazing storytelling. Yeah, I think the finale was a little
Speaker 1: bit off. I will also say this is that so
Speaker 1: what you want, what you're telling me what you want
Speaker 1: is you want Kevin Fige to have a press conference
Speaker 1: before all of these shows every season premiere being like,
Speaker 1: don't expect too much out of us, guys.
Speaker 2: No, No, I want I think all of these shows
Speaker 2: to strive for something like Hawkeye, where it rounds out
Speaker 2: a known character that didn't get a ton of screen
Speaker 2: time and introduces a new character like Hailey Steinfeld's character,
Speaker 2: and that's basically what this show does. And I don't
Speaker 2: think we sort of expected this show to do that
Speaker 2: going in. Not to get into spoilers, but I think
Speaker 2: if if this show, if all these Marvel shows shoot
Speaker 2: for something like the Hawkeye formula, I think most of
Speaker 2: them are going to work.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I definitely want them to go into a season
Speaker 1: with a goal, and I think this show did that,
Speaker 1: and I think it hit all of its goals. Whether
Speaker 1: like I think there were too many episodes. I think
Speaker 1: you could have shaved this down a bit.
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know if I you agree.
Speaker 1: Oh. I thought they meandered around the witch's road a bits,
Speaker 1: but all to be fair, because I didn't like the
Speaker 1: side characters.
Speaker 2: I enjoy the side carriers characters.
Speaker 1: That's because you love witches. You love witch craft.
Speaker 2: Love witches or witchcraft? However, the craft is a cinematic class.
Speaker 1: Back is boiling up of a witch's brew. Right now?
Speaker 2: You yes, is anti witch, You're out?
Speaker 1: I am anti magic. I think witches are very very boring.
Speaker 1: I like magic. I so no because I liked I've
Speaker 1: liked a lot of the magic that Doctor Strange did
Speaker 1: an Infinity War like he did a bunch of cool tricks.
Speaker 1: He didn't do as many of those tricks in Multiverse
Speaker 1: of Madness. I was, so you were sitting next to
Speaker 1: me during Infinity War the entire time. I'm like, fucking
Speaker 1: sick trick. It's a sick trick. This one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty these guys, that's sick trick. Snakes, sick trick.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: Yes, long is a TV force. Wait did I finish
Speaker 1: my thought? Or do you interrupt me my thought? What
Speaker 1: was I talking about?
Speaker 2: It seems like you were meandering.
Speaker 1: I was meandering around the fucking magic road.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a TV fourteen I guess mini series.
Speaker 2: I don't think we're getting a second season of this.
Speaker 1: Actually, I've seen some talks about possible a second season.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it would I think it if
Speaker 1: they did a second season, it would be like how
Speaker 1: Agatha is to WandaVision Like, it'd be characters from this
Speaker 1: show spinning off and all nothing. Hold that thought, How
Speaker 1: long I'm gonna forget you? Didn't? I think.
Speaker 2: I think we see I did. Actually, I think we
Speaker 2: see you a bit ago. I think we see vision
Speaker 2: Quest do for this show? What this show did for WandaVision.
Speaker 1: Oh Envision Quest is starting to shoot next year. That
Speaker 1: was in the news, which is I think good news.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like agree, gou. This is an action adventure, comedy, drama, fantasy,
Speaker 2: sci fi. A lot of things going on here, and
Speaker 2: they did a decent job doing all sorts of stuff
Speaker 2: in there as well. Sub genres. Never heard of either
Speaker 2: of these two dark fantasy and supernatural fantasies.
Speaker 1: I've heard of both of those if.
Speaker 2: You're into those. Apparently it's present in this show. Good
Speaker 2: There was nine Apple episodes in this totally three hundred
Speaker 2: and seven minutes. Taking out the credits and the previews
Speaker 2: and whatnot, that's the equivalent of five hours and seven
Speaker 2: minutes of content. So this is essentially two movies long,
Speaker 2: if not more of content. And now I would agree
Speaker 2: that the beginning four episodes of this show have some
Speaker 2: fluff in there. I'd have some bore, But once we
Speaker 2: get to episode five, I think all the rest is
Speaker 2: quite necessary and quite good. In fact, on roddy teazgew
Speaker 2: eighty three percent from the critics, eighty two percent from
Speaker 2: the audience audience. Score wise, that is tied for the
Speaker 2: fifth highest behind Loki Season one, Hawkey, Moonnight, Oddly, WandaVision
Speaker 2: fourth at eighty eight percent, and then this Loki Season two, Falcon,
Speaker 2: and Winter Soldier all have eighty two. Below this is
Speaker 2: Miss Marvel and then a steep drop off to Echo
Speaker 2: Secret Invasion in Shee Hulk. On Metacritic, this has a
Speaker 2: sixty six, which is seventh best, and that's behind Miss Marvel, WandaVision,
Speaker 2: Loki Season one, Falcon, and Winter Soldier, Moonnight See Hulk
Speaker 2: tied with Hawkeye for seventh and below it is Loki
Speaker 2: Season two, Secret Invasion, and Echo. So the critics and
Speaker 2: the audience is telling you this is roughly middle of
Speaker 2: the pack for these Marvel shows, and I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: disagree with that. I may I probably liked it more
Speaker 2: than your average fan, but I think that's that's pretty close. Gou.
Speaker 2: I've I mentioned her already. This show is created by
Speaker 2: Jack Schaeffer. She's the show runner here, and she was
Speaker 2: also the creator and showrunner on WandaVision, which I think
Speaker 2: FIGI probably had more to do with than he does
Speaker 2: in this. And she was also a writer on the
Speaker 2: Black Widow movie. She is not going to be the
Speaker 2: showrunner on vision Quest, but I do think she is
Speaker 2: gonna have a pretty heavy hand in that as a producer.
Speaker 2: We also got three different directors throughout this season, Rachel Goldberg,
Speaker 2: Ganja Montero, Hell of a Name, and of course Jack
Speaker 2: Schaeffer nine writing credits on the season we don't I'm
Speaker 2: not going to run through those synopsis for Agatha all along.
Speaker 2: A spellbound Agatha Hartness regains freedom thanks to a team help.
Speaker 2: Intrigued by his plea, she embarks on the Witch's road
Speaker 2: trials to reclaim her powers and discover the team's motivations. Now,
Speaker 2: I think the strength of this show throughout most of it,
Speaker 2: especially once you get into the thick of it, is
Speaker 2: you don't really know what's coming around the corner, and
Speaker 2: so that level of intrigue really keeps you going and
Speaker 2: sort of keeps you clicking on that show title every
Speaker 2: Wednesday night or Thursday morning, whenever you'd go to watch it.
Speaker 2: There's something to be said about the level of intrigue
Speaker 2: that the show built.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think that because it definitely doesn't
Speaker 1: have that intrigue that Wanda had, that Loki had. It's
Speaker 1: that I think middle of the pack really when it
Speaker 1: comes to everything going down. The report card fits the show.
Speaker 2: Yes, but you're not. It shouldn't have the intrigue of
Speaker 2: characters that we watched over a twenty movie run, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. So again, that sort of goes
Speaker 2: into the expectation level of this. But then it to me,
Speaker 2: the quality in the storytelling quality on your end equals
Speaker 2: what those shows gave us. But we had higher expectations
Speaker 2: for those shows.
Speaker 1: I'll give the show credit to they had decent reveals,
Speaker 1: or that they at least had a reveal at the
Speaker 1: end of every episode.
Speaker 2: They had a plethora of reveals, especially in the second
Speaker 2: half of the season.
Speaker 1: My issue though, is that after every reveal I'd go, oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is a good issue. I think
Speaker 2: there's a good issue on this one. I don't know
Speaker 2: if so many people are echoing that same sentiment.
Speaker 1: And while one of the reveals I think has cool
Speaker 1: potential moving forward, you kind of have played your hand
Speaker 1: with other characters that they need.
Speaker 2: Say that again.
Speaker 1: In English. While one character is very cool and there
Speaker 1: is some cool stuff they can do with her, you've
Speaker 1: already used some of the characters that they would need
Speaker 1: for their storylines.
Speaker 2: Okay, I see what you're talking about there, but a
Speaker 2: larger Marvel Infinity type level of story I get. I'm
Speaker 2: picking up what you're putting down there, Goose. Speaking of characters,
Speaker 2: this show stars Catherine Hahn as Agatha Harkness. Of course,
Speaker 2: we saw her in WandaVision, Joe Locke as the team,
Speaker 2: the mysterious.
Speaker 1: Team, not just a team, some of some of that when.
Speaker 2: We get the spoilers, Sashier Zamada as Jennifer Kale, Ali
Speaker 2: On as Alice Gulliver, Patty Lapone as Lilia Calderu, Deborah
Speaker 2: Joe Rupp reprising her role as Missus Hart. We saw
Speaker 2: her in Wanda Vision. And then we have Aubrey Plaza
Speaker 2: in here is Rio Vidal a new edition. And then
Speaker 2: we also get the Salem Seven here that are tied
Speaker 2: into Agatha's backstory. And these seven things are vertical, Vertigo, coyote, crow, fox,
Speaker 2: al rat, snake. I guess that makes Vertigo the bees
Speaker 2: the bees thing we saw, which is I gotta say,
Speaker 2: if if there was a little bit of disappointment in
Speaker 2: this show, it's that these things are introduced very early
Speaker 2: in the season and they don't really end up meaning
Speaker 2: anything at all. They were sort of a red herring,
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 1: Right, But did you really need to pay off to
Speaker 1: these or are you happy with where the show took
Speaker 1: you instead?
Speaker 2: No, I'm happy with where the show went, but I
Speaker 2: also think we probably needed more of some of that
Speaker 2: background with Agatha Rio and the sale seven, a little
Speaker 2: more fleshing out there, But to that point we already
Speaker 2: we got five hours of content as it was Gou.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna speak too much pre spoilers here, but
Speaker 2: I just got to say this show ends up serving
Speaker 2: as a backdoor pilot for a very notable character in
Speaker 2: the comics, not one that I was very aware of,
Speaker 2: but I became aware of these last couple of years.
Speaker 2: Aubrey Plaza's introduction as this Rio Vidal character is awesome.
Speaker 2: She's great in it. It is the perfect character for Aubrey.
Speaker 1: Play's practical effects. Too.
Speaker 2: Good job, Yes, really really good job. Episodes seven and
Speaker 2: eight were awesome, especially episode seven. Episode seven was one
Speaker 2: of the better episodes of television I've seen in the
Speaker 2: last couple of years, and overall, I enjoyed seven and
Speaker 2: a half of the nine episodes. I really enjoyed this
Speaker 2: season much more than I anticipated going in, And once again,
Speaker 2: I think I'm sort of discovering about myself as an
Speaker 2: MCU viewer that I do like these quirky side quests,
Speaker 2: not too crazy, not Echo level, but stuff that had
Speaker 2: somewhat meaning already built in and then building upon that,
Speaker 2: whereas Echo had nothing going in and built nothing on it.
Speaker 2: So that's the distinction I want to make there.
Speaker 1: That Go also ruined Kingpin.
Speaker 2: Echo did ruin a pretty well liked character, you're.
Speaker 1: Correct, and Echo tried some new stuff too. I just
Speaker 1: don't think it paid off at all, some of the
Speaker 1: stuff in it, not to you know, bash Echo over
Speaker 1: and over again. But this show, at least even the
Speaker 1: first episode that has a lot of throwaway stuff, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of fun in there. Like with the with
Speaker 1: the fake show that she believes that she's in, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of fun happening there.
Speaker 2: Well yeah it's not even it's her life. Yeah, she
Speaker 2: didn't even think she was a show that was a
Speaker 2: lot and that hearkens back to some of what WandaVision did, right,
Speaker 2: So I think if you like that about WandaVision, you
Speaker 2: really appreciated that sort of introduction to this show.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, and uh, I don't know, man, I don't
Speaker 1: like witches. What are you wanna say?
Speaker 2: You want to get to the nanagon?
Speaker 1: Let's get to the nanagon. Well, what did they use?
Speaker 1: What's a spooky shape?
Speaker 2: A pentagon is a spooky pentagon.
Speaker 1: So I guess we had to shave four off of
Speaker 1: this then we can add four back on after Yeah.
Speaker 2: A pentagon times two minus one.
Speaker 1: There we go. Fun factor? And how fun was this show?
Speaker 1: And I guess the fun really goes back and forth
Speaker 1: where I love Catherine Han. I don't think she was
Speaker 1: in a ton of this show. I she almost seemed
Speaker 1: like she didn't want to be there, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of what the character's all about. But because she wasn't
Speaker 1: that same fun character that we had in Wanda, she
Speaker 1: felt different. She felt like a different character. Obviously she's
Speaker 1: gone through a lot, but we do learn who she
Speaker 1: is more. I don't know, man, I don't think it
Speaker 1: was that fun. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I couldn't disagree with you. More. I felt like Catherine
Speaker 2: Han and Aubrey Plaza are like clearly having a blast
Speaker 2: playing these characters. And I thought that that really helped
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 1: And that's all you care about is the people having fun.
Speaker 2: No, I think that it makes it inherently makes the
Speaker 2: scenes between those two especially, but in general it makes
Speaker 2: the show more fun.
Speaker 1: Mac is the biggest fan of Jimmy Fallon because he's
Speaker 1: always having fun.
Speaker 2: Unless he has those Costco family.
Speaker 1: That is my favorite interview of all time. I am
Speaker 1: in a vortex on X right now of just all
Speaker 1: Costco and Rizzler stuff where I that's great, it's amazing.
Speaker 2: I don't come strong, come out strong against random people
Speaker 2: on the internet too often, just more notable movie directors.
Speaker 2: I wish nothing but the worst on that Costco family.
Speaker 2: I want all the bad things to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but have you heard him say double chunk chocolate cookies?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Out, that's his catchphrase.
Speaker 2: I hope they stub their toes.
Speaker 1: But I also love the chicken bake that they have
Speaker 1: a Costco too. It's a delicious fucking tree. Don't We're
Speaker 1: not giving the Costco family any run on this prera.
Speaker 1: You know what we actually do in the Antonelli household
Speaker 1: is that when we make pizzas, sometimes we make the
Speaker 1: Costco Chicken bake pizza where we just take all the
Speaker 1: ingredients and turn it into a pie.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 1: YEP, it's fresh, it's delicious. Satisfactor, Were you satisfied by
Speaker 1: the end of the show. I do want to see
Speaker 1: where one of the characters goes, and because of this
Speaker 1: one character where it does, another one go and we
Speaker 1: can kind of put an end to a couple of
Speaker 1: these characters. But we're gonna keep this so much that
Speaker 1: you can't say because of spoilers.
Speaker 2: To that point. I really like three plot points or
Speaker 2: three paths that this show concludes with and where those
Speaker 2: might lead. Although some of the reveals throughout this show
Speaker 2: were kind of telegraphed and or sniffed out ahead of time, Yeah,
Speaker 2: a couple of them. Were still very satisfied.
Speaker 1: You're all over Reddit. You love Reddit.
Speaker 2: Not recently enough for these shows, more so for like
Speaker 2: months ahead of movies. Specifically gou The Satisfactor revolving around
Speaker 2: Agatha's history with the Witch's Road I thought was awesome,
Speaker 2: And I also really liked the shit revolving around Arbrey Plaza's.
Speaker 1: Character Bore Omeitor. I fell asleep during five episodes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, admittedly here the first four episodes have moments of
Speaker 2: Bore when they're kind of jumping through these trials, and
Speaker 2: it's got a little bit of a Wizard Oz Wizard
Speaker 2: of Oz feeling to it. It wasn't the strength of
Speaker 2: this show wasn't the first four episodes, That's for sure.
Speaker 1: For the last two episodes, I actually made sure that
Speaker 1: I watched them at like eight fifteen at now or
Speaker 1: actually no, they come out right at nine, So right
Speaker 1: at nine o'clock I watched it. But I watched it
Speaker 1: from a folding chair, okay, to make sure I didn't
Speaker 1: fall asleep. Sure, I broke out a folding chair and
Speaker 1: I sat and watched Agatha.
Speaker 2: Those things are impossible to fall asleep.
Speaker 1: You say that, but I could probably fall asleep in one.
Speaker 1: Folding chairs have gotten very, very comfortable. The other day,
Speaker 1: I was actually telling my wife because we have a
Speaker 1: nice folding chair, and I said, Mack and I have
Speaker 1: a very very fun joke at trivia that the good
Speaker 1: folding chair is an OSHA approved folding chair that we
Speaker 1: can stand on. She didn't really laugh, but she thought
Speaker 1: it was kind of cute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't does she even know what OSHA is?
Speaker 1: I actually, I asked her after and she said yes,
Speaker 1: And then she explained it to it so she understood
Speaker 1: what OSHA was. I think every workplace has OSHA.
Speaker 2: That can't be right.
Speaker 1: I don't know either, Guys, tell us right now, do
Speaker 1: you know what OSHA is?
Speaker 2: I think every manual labor institute has OSHA.
Speaker 1: Halloween, I like that it was released during the Halloween season.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna interpret this differently, so congratulate them, and you
Speaker 1: know what to do. They timed it out so the
Speaker 1: final two episodes came out on Halloween week.
Speaker 2: Knowing what we know now, goo, I actually want to
Speaker 2: go back and rewatch the first half of the show
Speaker 2: for some of the reveals, to see if I can
Speaker 2: pick up on some of the things that are sort
Speaker 2: of exposed by the end of this show. And moreover,
Speaker 2: I think this show rounds out WandaVision a little bit
Speaker 2: more as well. So credit to Jack Schaeffer, that's sure.
Speaker 1: Because nothing gets me more frazzled than when a spooky
Speaker 1: show goes beyond Halloween. American Horror Story needs to learn
Speaker 1: from this. Okay, sure, not that I'll ever watch American
Speaker 1: Horror Story ever again, but that first season one of
Speaker 1: the best seasons. Amazed, amazing.
Speaker 2: I'll defend that season of television to death.
Speaker 1: Ah, quater World, it's better than water World.
Speaker 2: Baby floats. Oh yeah, it floats.
Speaker 1: But it definitely needs like, it needs floaties. I don't
Speaker 1: think it can swim on its own.
Speaker 2: I think the second half of the show is a professional,
Speaker 2: maybe Olympic level swimmer.
Speaker 1: Oh we start doing this now, Okay, I'll say better.
Speaker 1: I would say it has a life vest, not water wings.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna disrespect it.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying the second half of the show is
Speaker 2: like Katie Ladecky level, but it swims.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying that it can do the triple Lindsey,
Speaker 1: but it's not. When life gives you plemons, you make plemonade.
Speaker 1: Mac and who do you believe made plemonade on this show?
Speaker 2: Good? Patti Lapone was fucking fantastic. She was sort of
Speaker 2: a side character amongst this whole thing, but her storyline
Speaker 2: in this season of television culminates in maybe the coolest
Speaker 2: moment of the season.
Speaker 1: Loved that.
Speaker 2: Additionally, a more side character and maybe more what plemonade
Speaker 2: is talking about is Aubrey Plaza.
Speaker 1: She was great.
Speaker 2: Every time she popped up in this show. She really
Speaker 2: brought it.
Speaker 1: So both of them, I thought she was a little
Speaker 1: Hella esque where she was chewing it up a little
Speaker 1: bit too.
Speaker 2: Oh no, she was having more fun than Hella. Hella
Speaker 2: was too mean.
Speaker 1: You should have had that in the fun factor. I
Speaker 1: can't give it to Joe Locke, right, he's too much
Speaker 1: of a main character.
Speaker 2: So let's get to that. Let's get to Credit Union.
Speaker 2: We can talk about Joe Locke. Although let me do,
Speaker 2: let me do pants, steady pants tent.
Speaker 1: City really fine, go ahead, pants, Now what do you got?
Speaker 2: Episode seven, fantastic episode of television. Again, one of the
Speaker 2: better episodes television I've watched in the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: I thought it was phenomenal. And the way that character
Speaker 2: and that storyline comes together in that awesome moment in
Speaker 2: the finale of that or the final moment of that
Speaker 2: episode was fucking great.
Speaker 1: Because I think that Joe Locke, let's get to max
Speaker 1: Credit Union now, I think that he's great in this. Granted,
Speaker 1: I think that he's now going up against a bit
Speaker 1: of a water down Agatha than what we saw in Wandervision. Again,
Speaker 1: don't agree that. I just said it like you, I
Speaker 1: said wander Vision for a second.
Speaker 2: This being Joe Locke only his second ever IMDb credit.
Speaker 2: To me, gou is insane. The only other thing he's
Speaker 2: ever been in, at least according to IMDb, is the
Speaker 2: Netflix show heartstock Room, which I've never heard of, never
Speaker 2: heard of it. Apparently it's still going. So the fact
Speaker 2: that this is a second ever run and he's you know,
Speaker 2: going toe to toe with Katherin Han, to me is
Speaker 2: quite impressive, And to that point, this show does not
Speaker 2: work without Catherine Han's range and her ability to like
Speaker 2: sort of change a character note or a character trait
Speaker 2: in an instant. She's awesome in this And a third
Speaker 2: credit here, of course, Jack Schaeffer, because I think she
Speaker 2: had complete control of this show. The casting department I
Speaker 2: thought absolutely nailed this show. The casting was great, one
Speaker 2: of the best parts about this program.
Speaker 1: For those of you tardy to the Mac and Goo party,
Speaker 1: we rate everything on a forty hot dog rating system. Mac,
Speaker 1: I'll let you go first.
Speaker 2: So to give the people some perspective on which I
Speaker 2: stand on these MCU shows. I don't think anything has
Speaker 2: really gotten to the elite level tier, but I do
Speaker 2: have Loki Season one on a tier of its own
Speaker 2: at thirty seven hot dogs. After that, I think there's
Speaker 2: this group of shows that I really enjoyed to certain
Speaker 2: degrees there have you know, they're not perfect, but enjoyable.
Speaker 2: I've got Hawkeye thirty five, hot Dogs, Miss Marvel another
Speaker 2: pleasant Surprize at thirty four, and then I have WandaVision
Speaker 2: and Loki Season two at thirty three apiece. The rest
Speaker 2: of the shows below that a step or two below.
Speaker 2: She Hulk at thirty one, Moon Night at thirty. Falcon
Speaker 2: Winter shows are twenty eight, Secret Invasion at twenty seven
Speaker 2: that's definitely halloweened over time, and Echo at twenty Echo
Speaker 2: by far the worst show they've done with that in mind,
Speaker 2: gu I think this show is no worse than sixth
Speaker 2: I have it right up there in that mishmash behind
Speaker 2: Loki Season one. I might even have it as high
Speaker 2: as as third or fourth, depending on how this feeling
Speaker 2: really settles in, right in that thirty three thirty four
Speaker 2: hot Dog range for me, still trying to find it.
Speaker 1: Sp you have it like in a middle tier. What
Speaker 1: you're telling me it's.
Speaker 2: In the second tier, I guess technically, but it's with
Speaker 2: four other shows, so it's no higher than third or fourth,
Speaker 2: But it's no worse than sixth I think I liked
Speaker 2: it more than WandaVision, which is weird for it's a
Speaker 2: really weird thing to think about WandaVision.
Speaker 1: Oh my, so captivating? What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Was it? Yes?
Speaker 1: This was it. It captured the nation's imagination.
Speaker 2: No, it captured yours because you like old timey TV.
Speaker 1: I like old stuff. It's showed.
Speaker 2: I liked one. I liked WandaVision, but the expectation for
Speaker 2: WandaVision was like thirty eight hot dogs. The expectation for
Speaker 2: this was like twenty, and I think they actually.
Speaker 1: Ended up by hate. How you rate things now, your
Speaker 1: expectation sucks. If it's okay, then it's okay.
Speaker 2: That doesn't change the rating, it's just the feeling towards
Speaker 2: the rating is different. So like WandaVision, I have at
Speaker 2: thirty three, I have this right about there. However, I
Speaker 2: expect this to be way lower than that, So the
Speaker 2: feeling towards the rating is different. I think that's a
Speaker 2: very easy thing to understand. I do think this show
Speaker 2: is pretty similar to WandaVision and Loki season two, though
Speaker 2: I thought it was like really uneven at the beginning,
Speaker 2: but then once it hits its stride. It's really really good,
Speaker 2: really enjoyable, really intriguing. So I think I may have
Speaker 2: it at that same score, that same thirty three, in
Speaker 2: that same exact range, and in the grand scheme of
Speaker 2: the whole MCU. This is probably like in the late twenties,
Speaker 2: I have Shang Chi and Captain Marvel at thirty three each,
Speaker 2: but movie greater than show. So those are above these
Speaker 2: thirty threes, and those are twenty thirty.
Speaker 1: Podcast works movie better than show always.
Speaker 2: So this is smack dab in the middle of all
Speaker 2: the MCU stuff.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: This show is much better than I anticipate, and probably
Speaker 2: do much better than it had any business being. This
Speaker 2: show is a good show, and I think if you
Speaker 2: asked me to give it a percentage chance to be
Speaker 2: good eight weeks ago, I would have said maybe, like
Speaker 2: a twenty percent chance.
Speaker 1: I would definitely have it below my top I don't
Speaker 1: know five or whatever shows because the ones that you
Speaker 1: mentioned and we have them in different order. I think
Speaker 1: that Loki season one, we both agree is amazing. Wanda Vision,
Speaker 1: I think is close to Loki Season one. You have
Speaker 1: a little disrespect to me.
Speaker 2: Hawkeye is clearly number two out of these shows.
Speaker 1: I think Hawkeye plays at the safest and because of that,
Speaker 1: I can't give it too many flowers. It's still in
Speaker 1: my top five, but I don't think it's amazing. I
Speaker 1: think Loki season two, because of how it pops at
Speaker 1: the end, I'd take that over Hawkey. Miss Marvel is
Speaker 1: just a delight, and I think that Miss Marvel actually
Speaker 1: plays more into what you're talking about of having no
Speaker 1: expectations and then getting something that's really fun. I think
Speaker 1: Miss Marvel does that better than this Miss Marvel.
Speaker 2: I might have Miss Marvel a hair above this, but
Speaker 2: Miss Marvel and she Helker the two shows that have
Speaker 2: really turned me around on this side character stuff. And
Speaker 2: like most people hated she Helkko, I kind of liked it.
Speaker 1: I didn't mind g Yelk.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think we both admit it's way better than people give.
Speaker 2: It credit for.
Speaker 1: And even though the final episode is preposterous, it is insane.
Speaker 1: They didn't throw lights at each other. I would have
Speaker 1: this above those last three. And I would say this
Speaker 1: is right around Moon Night for me, because Moonnight had
Speaker 1: one episode that blew my fucking balls off. Moonnight had
Speaker 1: that one episode. I'm like, this is amazing. The rest
Speaker 1: of the show isn't great, and the finale of that
Speaker 1: show actually take that back, This is better than Moonnight.
Speaker 1: The finale of that show is it's bonkers. He has
Speaker 1: rubber legs. I'm glad that we talked this out.
Speaker 2: Moonnight flashed potential and just never got it.
Speaker 1: Never did so I would have this right below She Hulk.
Speaker 1: I think this and she Hulk are pretty similar. Actually
Speaker 1: really yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, I feel like She Hulk is like, certainly like
Speaker 2: a worse version of what this show does. But I
Speaker 2: did I didn't mind She Hulk at all.
Speaker 1: She Hulk takes more swings at comedy, and while they
Speaker 1: don't hit a ton of home runs, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a two to eighty nine hitter who just slapped a
Speaker 1: lot of singles. Do you want them in your starting lineup?
Speaker 1: Not every day?
Speaker 2: To be clear, you have this seventh ahead of Echo,
Speaker 2: Secret Invasion, Falcon and Winter Soldier in Moonnight.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I would also say when it comes to that,
Speaker 1: the me not really caring about what's happening on screen
Speaker 1: plays a lot into this, And yeah, I almost I
Speaker 1: almost want to blame the penguin for that, because the penguin.
Speaker 1: I'm sucked into every piece of dialogue, everything that's happening
Speaker 1: on that show, every piece of gaba ghoul. I'm all
Speaker 1: over the penguin. This show did not grab me like that.
Speaker 2: Can I just say one thing about the penguin, We'll be.
Speaker 1: Talking about the less. If this is something that's gonna
Speaker 1: hurt my feelings, then no, don't say.
Speaker 2: It, dude. You know what I'm worried about.
Speaker 1: What's that one?
Speaker 2: Is that it peaked too early. The most recent episode,
Speaker 2: worst episode of the season. Episode seven was the worst
Speaker 2: episode of the season.
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't get a top hat. Not to
Speaker 1: spoil anything, he didn't get that top hat that we
Speaker 1: all thought he was gonna get.
Speaker 2: So I'm worried that show peaked too early and is
Speaker 2: gonna give us a satisfying conclusion if.
Speaker 1: He picks up an umbrella. I'm in forty to your point.
Speaker 1: It is it is.
Speaker 2: It didn't help this show that it's going going up
Speaker 2: against me.
Speaker 1: I know that we're not supposed to prop one thing
Speaker 1: up by bringing something down, or bring something down by
Speaker 1: propping I don't know what we're doing anymore. We're seven
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty episodes into this podcast, guys, But that
Speaker 1: just it didn't help it for me, and I was
Speaker 1: I was bored during this show. And it's not even
Speaker 1: because of the lack of effort from the show. I
Speaker 1: think the themes of this show didn't really do it
Speaker 1: for me. I think the portrayal of Agatha and the
Speaker 1: show felt different to me. And it's it's been like,
Speaker 1: what five years since WandaVision? How many years has it been?
Speaker 1: It's been four And maybe that might be an issue too,
Speaker 1: where I thought that was a dynamite character then and
Speaker 1: we've just we've wandered down the Witches road a bit
Speaker 1: too far from me to care anymore.
Speaker 2: No, that's a valid point, and that's an MCU point overall.
Speaker 2: I think that people would would reflect that sentiment. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess now that we're talking now, I think I
Speaker 2: would have this fourth. I've got Loki Season one Hawkeye
Speaker 2: Miss Marvel above it, but this has the same score
Speaker 2: as Loki season two, and WandaVision arranged those how you
Speaker 2: would I think right now, maybe because it's the most
Speaker 2: recent one I've seen, I'd have this fourth, but tied
Speaker 2: with those other two. But you know, in that Missmash
Speaker 2: of shows. It's a quality show. It's not like I
Speaker 2: think going in, I was expecting echo level, and it's
Speaker 2: way better than that.
Speaker 1: I have this at twenty eight hot Dogs twenty seven
Speaker 1: somewhere around there. Yeah, you're a real twenty cereal let's
Speaker 1: say twenty cereal screw. I was talking to my father
Speaker 1: in law, who used to buy all the X Men comics,
Speaker 1: Spider Man comics, like he was a big Marvel fan,
Speaker 1: and he's not really a fan of these shows and
Speaker 1: movies anymore. And I said, what would get you back
Speaker 1: into these movies? And he said, just have Wolverine fight
Speaker 1: the Hulk, Like it was that simple. He's like, he's like,
Speaker 1: just just do simple crap. I'm back, no I.
Speaker 2: So that's like one of the big criticisms of Deadpool
Speaker 2: and Wolverine was that it was kind of meaningless in
Speaker 2: the stream of the MCU. But it was made for
Speaker 2: people like that. They have to appease those people every
Speaker 2: once in a while, so it just is what it is.
Speaker 2: I I find myself going the opposite direction of your
Speaker 2: father in law. I am as much as I like
Speaker 2: those movies, I'm starting to like these little.
Speaker 1: I'm an artist now. I used to be. I like
Speaker 1: this and now, and this is coming from me. I
Speaker 1: liked Werewolf by Night. About that werewolf by is it Midnight?
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever the hell it was called. By
Speaker 1: the way, that creature should have popped up in this,
Speaker 1: Oh showet to spoilers, real quick spoilersiles spoilers. So the
Speaker 1: Werewolf by Midnight didn't pop up in this. I was
Speaker 1: a little disappointed. I wanted the Werewolf by Midnight to
Speaker 1: pop up. And what I liked about that.
Speaker 2: Over this spoilers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I liked about that over this is that
Speaker 1: that was forty five minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I didn't like about it. It's just
Speaker 2: we don't there's no real it's meaningless. It is what
Speaker 2: that was.
Speaker 1: Do you love were wolves? I don't know if that's true,
Speaker 1: But you said you wanted to be a were wolf
Speaker 1: instead of a vampire.
Speaker 2: I don't know enough about myself to know whether that's
Speaker 2: a true claim or not, but I don't I don't
Speaker 2: think I do.
Speaker 1: Like where, do you dislike were wolves more than I
Speaker 1: dislike witches?
Speaker 2: No, certainly not. You're disdained for witches. Seems unreasonable.
Speaker 1: Oh, let me ask you this final couple episodes, there
Speaker 1: were too many witches, right? Were there that many witches
Speaker 1: just hanging out and looking for covens?
Speaker 2: Yes, they said at the beginning, like within a three
Speaker 2: mile radius, there's always enough witches for coven or something
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: That's kind of like a podcast. I guess there's always
Speaker 1: enough middle aged whites dudes to make a pause.
Speaker 2: It's always enough white guys in a basement within a
Speaker 2: three mile radius recording a podcast. Go what uh. Let's
Speaker 2: get to some of the reveals in this show, and
Speaker 2: my favorite one that we get an episode at the
Speaker 2: end of episode eight, beginning of episode nine here is
Speaker 2: that this Witches Road, which is what most of this
Speaker 2: show takes place on, was all a bunch of bullshit
Speaker 2: originally made up by Agatha just to cook up, you know,
Speaker 2: this story to steal all the witch's power. And I
Speaker 2: thought that was awesome and it the reveal is that
Speaker 2: Billy Wanta Maximov's son. That's another reveal, the soul of
Speaker 2: Billy Maximov's and bodies Billy Kaplan. It was all shit
Speaker 2: in his world that he cooked up. And what we
Speaker 2: discover in this reveal is that Agatha knew all along.
Speaker 2: Agatha knew all along that this Witch's Road was something
Speaker 2: that Billy cooked up, because it never existed down there.
Speaker 2: When you go down there, she realizes how powerful he is.
Speaker 2: And that's when she realizes it's Billy Maximov, Wanda's son,
Speaker 2: because the only other person that can create these alternate realities,
Speaker 2: these pocket universes, is Wanda, and that's the whole reason
Speaker 2: why she sort of pursued Wanda in the first place.
Speaker 2: And that tidbit is really really great, great storytelling, and
Speaker 2: it makes me want to go back and rewatch those
Speaker 2: first few episodes.
Speaker 1: I do question, So all of these witches who tried
Speaker 1: to become a coven with her and they try to
Speaker 1: blast her with their powers and whatnot, they all do
Speaker 1: the same thing. None of them have a different strategy
Speaker 1: as to when you know someone is trying to deceive them.
Speaker 1: I feel like some would have, you know, a slight variation, right,
Speaker 1: They all do the exact same thing. But also if
Speaker 1: these witches, and I understand that a lot of them
Speaker 1: don't have people to go back to, but some of
Speaker 1: them have to at least have a couple friends or
Speaker 1: a couple pieces of family or something like that. And
Speaker 1: when all these witches go missing. There's no law or
Speaker 1: mythos about this other witch who's stealing everyone's powers.
Speaker 2: So what you're missing here is the time frame. It
Speaker 2: was a witch's hunt going on in the Americas at
Speaker 2: the time, so that's why they seek refuge in other
Speaker 2: witches and don't have family to go back to.
Speaker 1: Now, I do agree we needed more lare.
Speaker 2: Built out with Agatha in the Salem seven and what
Speaker 2: happened to her and dark hold stuff that we didn't get.
Speaker 2: But when it comes to that, there was no refuge
Speaker 2: for those witches other than and other witches. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: like an American history thing that they're kind of playing
Speaker 2: upon there, But.
Speaker 1: There would be no one else to be like, hey,
Speaker 1: where did where did Shye Lean go?
Speaker 2: You can't ask those questions like, oh, she was a
Speaker 2: fucking witch.
Speaker 1: We killed her Aubrey Plaza's death by the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome, awesome. This was like one of the ones
Speaker 2: that from the beginning of the show everyone kind of
Speaker 2: had sniffed out and was hoping for really cool reveal
Speaker 2: in episode seven with Lilia's stuff and her face. The
Speaker 2: practical effects was super cool. I thought one of the
Speaker 2: coolest moments of this show. Gu was this like Truman
Speaker 2: show moment where Aubrey Plaza is the only other character.
Speaker 2: Death Rio is the only other character that realizes this
Speaker 2: Witch's road is all bullshit. In from Billie's You Know Magic,
Speaker 2: she tears that fabric of reality with her knife. I
Speaker 2: thought that was super cool and I liked the dynamic
Speaker 2: of those two being the only two that know what
Speaker 2: the hell is going on. Also, we learned that death
Speaker 2: Rio's the original Green Witch, and there's this whole plot
Speaker 2: point that's not really outright said, but I think you
Speaker 2: have to read into here that Agatha's son, and we
Speaker 2: learned this in the finale was supposed to die at birth,
Speaker 2: maybe is still born something to that effect, and Agatha
Speaker 2: pleads with Death to give her time. Death does and
Speaker 2: built into that, And to your point, there should have
Speaker 2: been a little bit more background here. It's clear she
Speaker 2: knows who Death is and has had a run in
Speaker 2: with Death before, but we don't get their genesis, the
Speaker 2: relationship between them, which was a little bit of a
Speaker 2: disappointment there. However, this whole like trade off between Agatha
Speaker 2: and Death, I think is why Agatha starts killing witches.
Speaker 2: She needs to feed Death these souls because she granted
Speaker 2: her son, Nicholas's life. There's this balance, this ever you know,
Speaker 2: changing balance that death has to deal with. And that's
Speaker 2: also and this is why in the comic books, her
Speaker 2: and fans are linked. It's a fanos type of thing,
Speaker 2: this whole balance in the universe that they're dealing with.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a it's a mix because she also by
Speaker 1: them blasting her, she's able to absorb their powers and
Speaker 1: become more powerful.
Speaker 2: Well that's that's later, So that's once her son's dead.
Speaker 2: Then I think she's vindictive and wants to be as
Speaker 2: powerful as possible.
Speaker 1: Her son is still alive when she uses her son
Speaker 1: to trick witches into stealing their powers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but not to the level it is in the montage.
Speaker 1: I think in the montage she's also at the point
Speaker 1: of she doesn't care anymore. She lost the only thing
Speaker 1: that she actually cares about, so she's like, fuck it,
Speaker 1: I'll steal all these powers.
Speaker 2: Totally agree, But I think initially they're roping these witches
Speaker 2: in because her son doesn't realize it. But she's saving
Speaker 2: her son by doing that. So it is odd to
Speaker 2: have her son mixed in, but it's just what they
Speaker 2: had to do. Goo. Yes, the biggest revealed mid season
Speaker 2: here is that this teenager aka Billy Kaplan aka Billy
Speaker 2: Maximoff is Billy Maximoff, the character of Wicked in the comics.
Speaker 2: And I don't know much about him other than he
Speaker 2: has a lot of the same powers as his mother,
Speaker 2: maybe not as powerful, but can do a lot of
Speaker 2: the same things she can. And this plays up in
Speaker 2: the finale where or in episode eight where Wickan uses
Speaker 2: his powers becomes full. Wickan has like a somewhat of
Speaker 2: a comic accurate get up there, which I liked, and
Speaker 2: I like the nod to the scarlet which is crown
Speaker 2: as well. And then in that situation we get Agatha
Speaker 2: sacrificing herself so that Billy can live on. We get
Speaker 2: that whole kiss a death scene, which I thought was
Speaker 2: super cool. And then Agatha lives on as a ghost.
Speaker 2: And is that because death sort of agreed to give
Speaker 2: her a little bit of time too.
Speaker 1: I don't know how ghosts work in this world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know either. This one. This part's pretty unclear.
Speaker 2: Why Agatha can just exist as a ghost.
Speaker 1: The ancient one is able to through death, and there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of different heavens and depths in the MCU.
Speaker 1: So maybe that's just kind of that's kind of a
Speaker 1: magic way of going forward. Yeah, so that's that's what
Speaker 1: I'm wondering here.
Speaker 2: One of the things going forward, is she operating in
Speaker 2: that like ghost plane that we see with other characters
Speaker 2: that their souls have been like punched out of them.
Speaker 1: Is that where she's at. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think that's very clear, but
Speaker 2: I do like that she's still lingering, and that's her
Speaker 2: and or Billy are still kind of working together to
Speaker 2: another reveal we get here, And this is something that's
Speaker 2: implied all the way back in WandaVision is that Agatha
Speaker 2: traded her son for the Dark Hold to get all
Speaker 2: these powers. Obviously, in the finale we learned that wasn't
Speaker 2: the case. And again I think we learned that not
Speaker 2: only did that not happen, she lived her whole life
Speaker 2: dedicated to making sure he could live. And then it
Speaker 2: seems like this is inferred this. I read this on
Speaker 2: the Internet. I don't know how true this is. Goose.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they say the Internet's not true, that's not true.
Speaker 2: They're saying that the one day they didn't kill, which
Speaker 2: was the day that Nicholas Scratch finally died. So I
Speaker 2: don't I don't know if that's if that's the case
Speaker 2: or not. But one theory I do like Gou is
Speaker 2: that Agatha's whole motivation in WandaVision is to steal Wanda's powers, right,
Speaker 2: And that was part of it. We saw that part
Speaker 2: of it. But she wants to steal her powers because
Speaker 2: she learns that Wanda is powerful enough to warp reality
Speaker 2: and create life, and therefore she can reincarnate her son's
Speaker 2: soul bring her son back, which is sort of what
Speaker 2: they're doing with Billy and Tom Billy, and I really
Speaker 2: like that. That rounds out Agatha and the motivations in
Speaker 2: Wanda Vision a little bit more. I really like that aspect.
Speaker 1: I also like and we brought this up a couple
Speaker 1: episodes ago, maybe episode five or six of Questioning. So
Speaker 1: Billy can put his mind or his spirit into a
Speaker 1: dead child, but his brother was more of a speedster.
Speaker 1: He was really fast. I we're not sure if he
Speaker 1: could do that, and he's able to buy Billy guiding him,
Speaker 1: which I really liked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like Billy was in control of Tommy's
Speaker 2: soul in that moment and even maybe had tommy soul
Speaker 2: inside of him as well. And then they find this
Speaker 2: other dying child to throw tommy soul there. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: it's inferred at the end of this season this series
Speaker 2: that they're out looking for that kid now to reun
Speaker 2: I Billy and time by the way, that that.
Speaker 1: Wasn't a prank. That was murder, right, No, No, the
Speaker 1: kid was already being murdered. I'm not saying Billy or
Speaker 1: Agatha murdered the kid, but they said at the time
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, it was a prank gone wrong. No,
Speaker 1: those other kids murdered that kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, man slaughter at the very least.
Speaker 1: So like at first, you know, no, no, they tricked him.
Speaker 1: They pushed him into the pool. Then another kid was
Speaker 1: holding him down on the water. You saw that, right,
Speaker 1: That wasn't just me?
Speaker 2: I like, this is what really you're really picking up
Speaker 2: on here, This is what that was sad as a
Speaker 2: father of a of a kid, this is what is
Speaker 2: affecting you.
Speaker 1: Because I understood that Tommy needed a body to go
Speaker 1: into it. I'm like, what, why are these kids killing
Speaker 1: this other kid? Go?
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh Agatha starts this this season of television with
Speaker 2: no powers. She has no powers until she steals Alice's
Speaker 2: in episode five, I Believe or four. And what I
Speaker 2: really like starting out the series the way it does
Speaker 2: is obviously Gou. In that first episode, she's still under
Speaker 2: the spell of Wanda. She's the only one in Westview
Speaker 2: that is still living in this alternate reality. And I
Speaker 2: like how and again this is why I really end
Speaker 2: up really liking the show, how that dynamic flips by
Speaker 2: the Witch's Road. She's the only one that actually knows
Speaker 2: they're in an alternate reality. It's the complete opposite of
Speaker 2: where she started. To me, that's great writing, great storytelling.
Speaker 2: Of course, besides Rio, I really enjoyed that. Again, I
Speaker 2: would have liked a little bit more background with the
Speaker 2: Salem seven stuff, and maybe where Rio and Agatha first
Speaker 2: came in to meeting each other. But whatever, I guess
Speaker 2: once you're five hours and you can't do too much
Speaker 2: more Gou. Episode seven, Lily Calderu all her time jumping
Speaker 2: finally is explained and she figures it out, puts it
Speaker 2: all together. I thought the moment where she flips the
Speaker 2: tower upside down kills the Salem seven was fucking awesome,
Speaker 2: and that episode jumping around and then having it written
Speaker 2: out and playing it up in the prior episodes of
Speaker 2: the way it did, I thought was super cool. We
Speaker 2: also learned in this episode that Lilia was the one
Speaker 2: that placed the sigil on Billy at his bott Mitzvah.
Speaker 2: By the end of the season, gou one of the
Speaker 2: things we get is Jennifer Cale surviving. She witch floats
Speaker 2: off into wherever she goes.
Speaker 1: Is that what it's called witch floats floats?
Speaker 2: Apparently she is connected to Ghostwriter in the comics. She's
Speaker 2: Ghostwriter's cousin, and she's also tied up with the Midnight Sun.
Speaker 2: So I think we're gonna see Jennifer Cale at some
Speaker 2: point again, she'll be a somewhat meaning character.
Speaker 1: They've already talked about wanting to do a Ghostwriter show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think they've planted some of the
Speaker 2: seats for the Midnight Suns as well, so that's that's
Speaker 2: an interesting thing there. We also learned that Agatha was
Speaker 2: indeed the one that bound Jennifer a century prior, and
Speaker 2: she didn't even really remember that, so that that was
Speaker 2: again a nice little note there. I don't think Jennifer
Speaker 2: realizes though, that that road experien it was completely fabricated.
Speaker 1: She's like, first of all, she's the one that survives.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she also doesn't realize it's not real, so
Speaker 2: she might be going out and telling other Witches that
Speaker 2: need X, Y or Z, Hey, we go to the
Speaker 2: Witch's Road. So that's that's a really interesting dynamic there
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of what we were talking about earlier,
Speaker 1: where I don't think we get a straight out and
Speaker 1: out Agatha show again like another season. I think that
Speaker 1: if they do something else with this, it would be
Speaker 1: characters from this show getting a spinoff like her, like Billy,
Speaker 1: maybe forming some kind of a Young Avengers, or maybe
Speaker 1: it's just more with the Witch's Road, but it's not
Speaker 1: Agatha centric. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I also so we see Billy close the door
Speaker 2: to the Witch's Road in the finale. Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: think it might still exist because again, he can create
Speaker 2: these little pocket universes, pocket realities, so it might still exist.
Speaker 2: You just need to figure out how to open the door,
Speaker 2: which is interesting. It's an interesting dynamic that that is
Speaker 2: kind of still floating off to the side there.
Speaker 1: And do you think that Billy and Tommy kind of
Speaker 1: snap something into vision when they see him, so that I'm.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering now what Vision Quest is really all about.
Speaker 2: So we have White Vision, who we haven't seen in
Speaker 2: four years, but now Billy having his full wicked abilities,
Speaker 2: I feel like he's going to be able to somehow
Speaker 2: tap into white Vision or connect to White Vision. And
Speaker 2: on top of that, he's going to be searching for Tommy.
Speaker 2: So I wonder if Vision Quest kind of brings all
Speaker 2: of these these things together, and maybe that's where we
Speaker 2: get Wanda Pops back. I'm not sure, but I gotta
Speaker 2: say this show makes me infinitely more interested in what's
Speaker 2: going to happen in Vision Quests because prior to this
Speaker 2: I was not really all that interested in Vision Quests
Speaker 2: because it had been so long. But yeah, I think
Speaker 2: that may pop up there.
Speaker 1: Oh and also, so you mentioned Mephisto. I didn't. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying they saying the show. The show mentioned Mefisto
Speaker 1: this time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, either do it or don't. Yeah, So let
Speaker 2: me see here, let me scroll. I want to make
Speaker 2: sure I did missed anything from the finale. Yeah, yeah, got
Speaker 2: all that, So leftover questions gu no Mefisto, no Mafisto.
Speaker 1: But they mentioned them, they mentioned him.
Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna need and this doesn't help the
Speaker 2: internet shit. I think I'm gonna need all these internet
Speaker 2: nerds to stop doing Mafisto theories because if they weren't
Speaker 2: gonna do it here, they're not gonna do it.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: When are you gonna bring them out now? I don't
Speaker 2: understand this was the time and place.
Speaker 1: I think once again, the issue is that that you
Speaker 1: can't show the devil in China and they don't want
Speaker 1: to ruin their box office bucks.
Speaker 2: Uh, this wasn't making any money at the box office,
Speaker 2: So that's ah.
Speaker 1: I question that.
Speaker 2: And here's a question. This might be a question for
Speaker 2: the comic book boys. Death is superior to Mephisto, right,
Speaker 2: like Mafista would be an asient of death and not
Speaker 2: the other way around. I guess no, because I think
Speaker 2: I think death is much more powerful than Mephisto. And
Speaker 2: so if we've already gotten to death, I don't think
Speaker 2: you really need Mefisto.
Speaker 1: And then also with death in the comics, she does
Speaker 1: a lot with Thanos and with Deadpool, and they're both
Speaker 1: obsessed with her.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so you might make you have a better
Speaker 2: chance I think at this point getting Deadpool connection, then
Speaker 2: you do thanos based on everything that's played out in
Speaker 2: the MCU GOO. We don't see the genesis, and I
Speaker 2: did mention this already of Agatha and Death's relationship, but
Speaker 2: she does recognize her in that initial scene when she's
Speaker 2: giving birth, So I really wish we had seen their
Speaker 2: first interaction. Again, we don't get much background on the
Speaker 2: Salem stuff. We don't get the scene of her coming
Speaker 2: into the dark Hold. I would have liked that. Where
Speaker 2: do we see the Scarlet Witch next? Goo? That's another
Speaker 2: question I have because it's teased here in the back
Speaker 2: of all of our heads. I'm thinking we all thought
Speaker 2: she might pop up somehow at the end here.
Speaker 1: Of course that didn't happen. So do you think it
Speaker 1: is envision quest? I wasn't paying attention. What was that?
Speaker 1: Where do we.
Speaker 2: See the Scarlet Witch next? Where did she?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 1: That also would have been I'm glad that you brought
Speaker 1: that up. So Death pretty much says to Billy, do
Speaker 1: you have any questions for me? Billy should have been like,
Speaker 1: where's my mom? Is my mom dead?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't know. Well, and obviously in Billy's mind
Speaker 2: he's prioritizing Tommy and he wants to get Tommy first,
Speaker 2: So it's not even like he wants his mom. It's
Speaker 2: almost like he's had his peace there. And he also
Speaker 2: might because of his understanding of his powers or or
Speaker 2: his understanding of his mother's powers, he might just realize
Speaker 2: like if his mom wants to come back, she can
Speaker 2: come back, and he doesn't need to do anything.
Speaker 1: That might be a part of it as well, because
Speaker 1: he doesn't mind cheating death because he's well not it
Speaker 1: is cheating death. He took a boy's body, much like
Speaker 1: he's helping his brother take a boy's body.
Speaker 2: Yes, so I wonder if going forward, death is sort
Speaker 2: of pursuing Billy and you know, by virtue Wanda again,
Speaker 2: maybe there's gonna be a conflict down the line between
Speaker 2: Wanda and death, which are like two of the most
Speaker 2: powerful beings in all of the MCU. So that's that's
Speaker 2: something maybe to look forward to.
Speaker 1: Let's get into Ma and Ma sac could be anything.
Speaker 1: It could be a boat and mac. Speaking of boats.
Speaker 1: Speaking of on Halloween, Bill Belichick and his lady friend
Speaker 1: dressing as a mermaid and sea Captain Merman. Merman, I
Speaker 1: was on the YouTube the other day and I can't
Speaker 1: think of the person's channel. It might be Jane dox
Speaker 1: or something like that. Jane Doxer don't quote me on this,
Speaker 1: but she did, and I didn't watch the whole video,
Speaker 1: but she did a recap of Do you remember in
Speaker 1: the year twenty twelve when Animal Planet did what we
Speaker 1: all believed to be a real documentary on found Mermaids?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I do. I do recall this. Yeah, what did?
Speaker 1: So? First off, let's uh Animal Planet, which was known.
Speaker 1: They never fabricated shit. It was always like, here's an animal,
Speaker 1: here's some facts. Let's move on. They had a series
Speaker 1: about how the US military found Mermaids.
Speaker 2: I remember distinctly the marketing for this and the couple
Speaker 2: weeks leading up to it. The Internet was a blaze
Speaker 2: about this whole, this whole thing, and in my mind
Speaker 2: I just took it as you know. They had the
Speaker 2: ghost Hunter series, they had the Bigfoot Hunter series out there.
Speaker 2: To me, that's all it was gonna be. It's just
Speaker 2: like these conspiracy people. Oh I saw, I saw Did
Speaker 2: you see that? Look over there? You look, there's nothing
Speaker 2: that type of thing. It didn't end up being that,
Speaker 2: but that's what I was taking it to be.
Speaker 1: Did you watch it when it was on, No, of
Speaker 1: course not. Oh I watched it that first one that
Speaker 1: it was on, and I was waiting for them to
Speaker 1: show it, and then they had these these horrible looking
Speaker 1: mermaids pop out of nowhere and then fly away, and
Speaker 1: You're like, wow, they got the mermaid footage. They got it.
Speaker 2: Obviously, mermaids don't exist, never did, probably never will unless
Speaker 2: there's some cross interspecies breeding.
Speaker 1: So what they said is that man, they were on
Speaker 1: land and they kept going to the sea to get food,
Speaker 1: and then eventually they just webbed their fingers and went
Speaker 1: into the ocean.
Speaker 2: Evolution worked the other way. But that's fine.
Speaker 1: Don't question Animal Planet. They're all over this.
Speaker 2: We've talked about this in the past couple episodes. I'm
Speaker 2: not a ghost guy, more of an alien guy. I
Speaker 2: don't think ghosts exists. I think aliens do. We're is
Speaker 2: never going to see one. I don't think mermaids exist,
Speaker 2: never will. However, yes, one thing I could believe in
Speaker 2: and think it might because there is vast wilderness that
Speaker 2: we might never explore or might never have footage of
Speaker 2: I think there's a chance that Bigfoot exists or something
Speaker 2: like it, a sasquatch.
Speaker 1: See now on the other way around, I think because
Speaker 1: there's so much ocean, and as you go deeper and deeper,
Speaker 1: it's too dark to see anything down there anyways, that
Speaker 1: if there's anything that we don't know about, it's in
Speaker 1: the water.
Speaker 2: No, that's true, and math and probability would say there's
Speaker 2: a bigger chance maybe of a mermaid like creature. I
Speaker 2: just think it's the idea of the mermaid is dumber
Speaker 2: than the idea of the sasquatch.
Speaker 1: So that's why I'm buying into sasquatch. And yes, I've
Speaker 1: asked you this many of times, and maybe your mind
Speaker 1: has changed. If you had to have sex with a mermaid,
Speaker 1: which half do you want to be a woman? In
Speaker 1: which half do you want to be a fish?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I want the top half to be
Speaker 2: a woman.
Speaker 1: Oh I don't think like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, what are you gonna look at?
Speaker 1: You? Look it right into its dead fish eyes? All right?
Speaker 1: Where can the people for sure?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: No, if you I would imagine bottom half, close your eyes.
Speaker 2: Da can't be Yeah, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: expound upon my answer.
Speaker 1: I have thoughts, but that's for another time. Bottom half,
Speaker 1: close your eyes, pray for death.
Speaker 2: If anyone's interested in me, uh, expounding upon my answer,
Speaker 2: if you ever meet me in real life, ask me
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Everyone out there find Mac and ask him about the Mermaids.
Speaker 1: Where can the people find us? Mac?
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter and on Instagram, at
Speaker 2: Mac and Goo podcasts every other platform. We are Mac
Speaker 2: Amberson and Goo. It's Mac Shift seven Goo that includes
Speaker 2: Facebook's to tuner, tune in Stitcher cat Speaker.
Speaker 1: Is your second breakdown up what is happening?
Speaker 2: We're on Spotify. More importantly, we're on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1: Get on there, rate review, subscribe five stars.
Speaker 2: If you do that, we'll get you a free Mac
Speaker 2: and Goo T shirt from folks over at Watertown sports Where.
Speaker 2: That's watter Town Sports Where thirty four Ovent Street in Watertown.
Speaker 2: Watertown Sportswear dot com expert screenprinting and embroidery.
Speaker 1: Tepublic dot com merged. It's the holiday season, go and
Speaker 1: buy some merch. I think you should leave. Stuff is
Speaker 1: ready and.
Speaker 2: Also ready. We're going party like a ship.
Speaker 1: End of the week, will dump and now we don't
Speaker 1: give up.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 1: Guys your birthday, start of next week, we'll do Penguin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Penguino Minuto will be Paguino hour next week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we are still two weeks away from Gladiator
Speaker 1: three maybe, and that's the next movie, right.
Speaker 2: I think so, I think. So, what are your expectations
Speaker 2: for this Penguin finale.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm jazzed. I'm excited.
Speaker 3: You.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love this I love this show. And when
Speaker 1: you said earlier the weakest of the episodes, episode seven,
Speaker 1: you still have an amazing Kristin Miliatti scene in there
Speaker 1: where she's talking to the girl only.
Speaker 2: Scene of the show, of this episode, I really like
Speaker 2: to be honest with you.
Speaker 1: So I'm in.
Speaker 2: I was listen. The show has been great again. I'm worried.
Speaker 2: We already saw its best, and I'm worried, that's all.
Speaker 1: I'm not worried at all. They're gonna land this plane,
Speaker 1: but are they are? Hold on?
Speaker 2: Hold on, I'm worried. Gu part of this is that
Speaker 2: there will be no consequences at the end of this
Speaker 2: and everyone we have seen this whole season will all
Speaker 2: be alive and to me, nothing meaningful to me if Penguin,
Speaker 2: Vic and Sophia are all still alive by the end
Speaker 2: of the season, I'll be a bit disappointed.
Speaker 1: I suppose. I suppose, I mean we lost uh, we
Speaker 1: lost miss her Maslf.
Speaker 2: I don't know how they're gonna remedy the Sophia Oz thing,
Speaker 2: because it doesn't seem like they're going to be able
Speaker 2: to exist at the same time anymore.
Speaker 1: Right, one of them will say, I don't even want
Speaker 1: to be around anymore.
Speaker 2: And I thought, like three episodes ago, I thought that
Speaker 2: Vic was for sure going to die, and now I
Speaker 2: think he's definitely living.
Speaker 1: I want to see what mss Cobb does, what missus
Speaker 1: Cobb does.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, yeah, maybe she's the one that dies.
Speaker 2: Probably right, I don't know what she's gonna have left
Speaker 2: going forward.
Speaker 1: You know what, she might go in a blaze of glory.
Speaker 2: She may. And again, that was the best scene of
Speaker 2: this past episode, her in Sophia, that conversation.
Speaker 1: That's well. No, I think Sophia and and the and
Speaker 1: her niece was the best part of this episode.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't agree.
Speaker 1: I loved it.
Speaker 2: I thought her in Oz's mom was the best.
Speaker 1: Now they're humanizing her again. No, I think. I mean,
Speaker 1: they already humanized her. They don't need to do any
Speaker 1: more of that now because you keep on going huh,
Speaker 1: she's too crazy, she's.
Speaker 2: Too I did like that she told her niece to try.
Speaker 2: That was a nice little thing because she started out
Speaker 2: with a fib and then then she then she was like,
Speaker 2: all right, you know what, this will be better. She
Speaker 2: just knows the truth, all right.
Speaker 1: So check us out at that time at the beginning
Speaker 1: of next week. Four Penguin News Dump. At the end
Speaker 1: of this week, uh tuesdays or gouosdays. I use Kangaroos Bymburton.
Speaker 1: Please flip the cassette over to side B to continue
Speaker 1: the adventure. Now it's not for girls jumping on trampolines.