Speaker 1: Welcome to the one hundred and fifty fifth episode of
Speaker 1: the Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast.
Speaker 2: I plead the fifty fifth.
Speaker 1: I plead the one two, three four fifth, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and
Speaker 1: who is you?
Speaker 2: Who is me? My name is Oscar Spector.
Speaker 1: Producer, Extraordinary and podcast co host. Two shows in a row.
Speaker 2: They don't know that. They don't need to know that.
Speaker 1: They don't need to know that.
Speaker 2: Oh, I see two shows in a row. Made like
Speaker 2: and yes, Oh I see that, and I ruin the magic.
Speaker 1: I'm fulfilling my promise. Yes, have you been?
Speaker 2: Have you been?
Speaker 1: Oscar?
Speaker 2: Oh, I've been good. You know there is something.
Speaker 1: You've got news, because I don't really have any news news.
Speaker 2: There's something recent. I mean, this is a pop culture thing,
Speaker 2: but I think it's fun and I think it's up
Speaker 2: your ally. I've recently been into this thing that I
Speaker 2: found on TikTok. TikTok inspires me so randomly and I
Speaker 2: don't nowhere or it tells me about something so randomly
Speaker 2: and out of nowhere, as as social media does.
Speaker 1: Do you know I don't have TikTok.
Speaker 2: I believe it well, you're I don't have it. I
Speaker 2: think there's an age when you start going on.
Speaker 1: Do you know how hard it is for me to
Speaker 1: watch TikTok's that people send me because I don't have TikTok.
Speaker 2: Is it hard?
Speaker 1: It's very hard.
Speaker 2: So I should stop sending you.
Speaker 1: Time to consume me.
Speaker 2: Just fucking get the.
Speaker 1: App because the Chinese are watching.
Speaker 2: They're watching you anyway, and they don't also care what
Speaker 2: you're doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm nobody, right, literally nobody.
Speaker 2: Like we're all really nobodies. You have comfort in that
Speaker 2: have comforted that you're a part of the masses. Yes, sorry, no,
Speaker 2: you're find friendship anyway. But three TikTok I found this thing,
Speaker 2: this thing that's been on and already a thing for
Speaker 2: a while years now. You know you are familiar with
Speaker 2: the Harry Potter franchise, of course, yes, More importantly, you
Speaker 2: are familiar with the Harry Potter novels. Yes, big fan
Speaker 2: you are. We are a big fan. That's one of
Speaker 2: the things we bonded over super big fan earlier in
Speaker 2: our friendship.
Speaker 1: Yep. Remember I had the final book delivered to my
Speaker 1: wedding reception.
Speaker 2: I remember. I tell that to people often.
Speaker 1: But the caveat here is it's been ages since I
Speaker 1: read those books or seen those movies, right, and hopefully
Speaker 1: I don't have to draw on my knowledge here, Well,
Speaker 1: not too much. The old memory isn't so good no more.
Speaker 2: You've also heard a fanfic? Correct?
Speaker 1: Yes? Right?
Speaker 2: Have you read any fan folk? Are looked out? Looked
Speaker 2: out for any specific fanfic and in your lifetime doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be sexual A dozen This.
Speaker 1: Is so stupid. Yes. And it was Texas chains Texas
Speaker 1: Chainsaw fan fiction, Okay, very specifically that And I don't
Speaker 1: remember the number of the movie, but it was the
Speaker 1: one with Matthew McConaughey, number four I think is that four?
Speaker 1: I think where he was part of a society and
Speaker 1: with the nipple rings the guy had three nipples.
Speaker 2: All this fucking it's vague in my memory, but I
Speaker 2: remember that movie being crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the movie itself, that whole thing is vague.
Speaker 1: So I went online what the fuck does this mean?
Speaker 1: And then I got down the rabbit hole of fanfic
Speaker 1: on that particular.
Speaker 2: People expand on that universe.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and it went in crazy places. I bet
Speaker 1: as fanfic does, so I am familiar with it.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, I found maybe the my favorite at least,
Speaker 2: not that I'm an expert in Harry Potter fanfic, but
Speaker 2: I found an amazing piece of fanfic that's been around
Speaker 2: in famous for a while, again new to me this year,
Speaker 2: that I think you might be interested in.
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 2: So it is fifty chapters. Wow, they're long, and they're
Speaker 2: not long long, but they're like the equivalent of two
Speaker 2: early Harry Potter books or one later novels size books
Speaker 2: basically that length. Think of that length an extra book,
Speaker 2: let's say, accounting a time where it's called oh no,
Speaker 2: not again. That's what it's called. Oh no, it's called
Speaker 2: oh God, not again. Sorry, my bad, oh God, not again.
Speaker 2: And I've been I've been listening to the audiobook version
Speaker 2: on YouTube, which is free to hear. So that's how
Speaker 2: I've been doing it as I work out or as
Speaker 2: I make legos or whatever. And some person, some random
Speaker 2: person studied paid attention around it. Yep, super famous in
Speaker 2: the Internet. And what it's about is that the synopsis
Speaker 2: is that Harry Potter is twenty three, he's about to
Speaker 2: become an or this is after the events of Baldemore
Speaker 2: Down and everything's spoiler for that old show now movies.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's spoiler anymore.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. He starts having these dreams
Speaker 2: or nightmares about the Veil, the veil that took Serious
Speaker 2: Black and the Department of Mysteries in book five.
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: That's right, YesYes, just having these weird dreams about it.
Speaker 2: And then he goes to sleep. Something happens. He seemingly
Speaker 2: goes through the veil in a weird way, and he
Speaker 2: wakes up. He is eleven years old again. Oh he
Speaker 2: is back on Private Drive and it's year one of
Speaker 2: Harry Potter, but it's him being twenty three years old.
Speaker 1: Like mentally he's twenty three, so he knows what he
Speaker 1: went through. Uh huh, now he could do things different.
Speaker 1: I'm in it's exactly. The shit that he does is funny,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. It goes into weird, wacky places because he's
Speaker 1: having fun. He's not like fearful of everything. He's fucking
Speaker 1: with everyone. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: He's interested in making money fast. He's like, for example,
Speaker 2: like he befriends Draco like day one.
Speaker 1: Instead of yeah, oh my god, like that right there
Speaker 1: right there changes the entire universe.
Speaker 2: When he meets Lockhart Kilroy kilde Word Lockhart, he like
Speaker 2: joins up with him to make a book about their
Speaker 2: exploids and make more money and get understand his celebrity status.
Speaker 1: It is, dude, I got a bookmarked right here.
Speaker 2: It is awesome.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. That is cool because I am
Speaker 1: kind of looking for something new to get into read
Speaker 1: them finishing up a Stephen King book that just came
Speaker 1: out right now now, So I've been looking for something
Speaker 1: I would be.
Speaker 2: I've been listening to five chapters a day and I'm
Speaker 2: on a chapter twenty eight or something.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you what fanfic does it have
Speaker 1: to be multiple authors or could it be one?
Speaker 2: And this case is one author it is. I don't
Speaker 2: know how they are normally. I'm sure it's a mixed
Speaker 2: match of all last year. But this is one person
Speaker 2: well and some and some people did like a They
Speaker 2: collected money maybe through Patreon. I think it was through
Speaker 2: Patreon to make the audiobook Wow available and that took
Speaker 2: him a while to subscribe and paid stuff and they
Speaker 2: finished it all it's been finished and I've been listening
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: How old is.
Speaker 2: It I don't know how old, but you're years old.
Speaker 1: Now, Okay, I will definitely check it out.
Speaker 2: I know Howard ends. I'm like a little over halfway.
Speaker 1: Wow. Maybe someone out there, if you've read this or
Speaker 1: listened to it, that's pretty cool. Let us know. Oh good,
Speaker 1: contact at Chicago ghost podcast dot com.
Speaker 2: I can't believe you remember.
Speaker 1: Great there. Yeah, but no, that sounds that sounds awesome. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's a whole new take on has JK.
Speaker 2: Rowling said, I don't I haven't looked into it, and
Speaker 2: that that, and it sounds I'm not saying it sounds
Speaker 2: like jk roll because it sounds like an older Harry
Speaker 2: Potter honestly and said, but like also, it does have
Speaker 2: whiffs of that. It it feels like in another book
Speaker 2: in some ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Cool.
Speaker 2: Think I think this person is who's usually name was
Speaker 2: Sarah something, did a really good job with this fanfic.
Speaker 1: That's great. There you go, listeners, And.
Speaker 2: No, there's not a dirty book either. It's totally normal
Speaker 2: Harry Potter book.
Speaker 1: Oh no, not again.
Speaker 2: It's called oh god, not again, Oh.
Speaker 1: God, not again. There you go, listeners, check it out. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2: I'm so enjoying it.
Speaker 1: Great. Let's so all right, So you don't know what
Speaker 1: we're talking about tonight, you have no clue.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I haven't.
Speaker 1: I told you absolutely jack shit about this one. I figured,
Speaker 1: you know, the last three episodes have been all serial killery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of ours are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this time I wanted to go whimsical. Is we're
Speaker 1: going whimsical?
Speaker 2: So maybe, like the whimsy of Harry Potter is a
Speaker 2: connective tissue here.
Speaker 1: No correlation I could even think of it all. But
Speaker 1: they're both I mean whimsical.
Speaker 2: Right, That's what I meant.
Speaker 1: Let's take a break. We'll be right to it. Listeners,
Speaker 1: welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2: I've never heard of Sandman.
Speaker 1: Just jumped the gun because I didn't do the lights
Speaker 1: are turned down low, Cerreophon, fuck it, Oscar.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to because we started, Oscar.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Oh, we're gonna go with it.
Speaker 1: Then we're going, Okay, it's late. Have you ever seen
Speaker 1: what the Netflix series that came out a few years
Speaker 1: ago called The Sandman?
Speaker 2: H Yeah, I think I have seen that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's that show. It's the main character is
Speaker 1: called dream or Lord Morpheus, who's basically the personification of
Speaker 1: humanity's dreams, and he has this power to kind of
Speaker 1: hop in and out of dreams and even control them. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: really good show. Yeah, I'm a fan.
Speaker 2: I think I know briann O Tarth. Isn't it places?
Speaker 1: You're right? That's right for Game of Thrones fans. Really
Speaker 1: good show. I think aren't they coming out with a
Speaker 1: season two soon? I hope so?
Speaker 2: I think it's on the I hope so. And the
Speaker 2: serial killer guy with all the.
Speaker 1: Good show, So we got this idea of someone who
Speaker 1: could enter dreams, control humanity's dreams. Right, what about Have
Speaker 1: you seen the Nick Cage movie called dream Scenario? I
Speaker 1: love that movie. Yeah, so, Katie and I watched it.
Speaker 1: It was fun. We had a good time with it.
Speaker 2: Some cringey ass moments. So do you think that that
Speaker 2: scene with the with the girl in the apartment.
Speaker 1: Oh, cringey as far as making you uncomfortable? Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: not cringely bad?
Speaker 2: Oh, I see it's so bad.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: He's about the cheat on his wife too, that's also bad.
Speaker 1: But yes, so we watched it great. It's and actually
Speaker 1: dream Scenario even makes a brief reference to this thing,
Speaker 1: this entity this being that we're going to talk about tonight.
Speaker 1: But basically, in the dream Scenario, Nicholas Cage, who I love,
Speaker 1: plays this mild manner, dorky biology teacher named Paul Matthews, right,
Speaker 1: whose life is turned upside down. He kind of has
Speaker 1: this mundane, boring life. Life is turned upside down when
Speaker 1: suddenly millions of people all over the world starts seeing
Speaker 1: them in their dreams. And Paul Matthews, he takes on
Speaker 1: these different roles in people's dreams, from benevolent to violent
Speaker 1: to sexy, just like you were saying when he was
Speaker 1: with that girl cheat on his wife, that was a dream.
Speaker 1: And just like with Lord Morpheus in the Sandman series,
Speaker 1: dream Scenario is based around this really cool idea of
Speaker 1: the dream surfer, a sentient being that possesses the power
Speaker 1: to enter, move around, and effect, move around in and
Speaker 1: affect people's dreams. And it's this fascinating idea of a
Speaker 1: dream surfer that gave me the idea for this episode
Speaker 1: because there just might be a real dream surfer out
Speaker 1: there right now, and he's known simply as this man,
Speaker 1: this man, this man.
Speaker 2: Oh, I know what we're doing.
Speaker 1: Do you know what this is?
Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, I don't know the details,
Speaker 2: so I definitely want to hear more. Okay, but I
Speaker 2: think I know what you're doing, all right.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now, over the last decade or so, maybe you've
Speaker 1: seen memes about this man, because for a long time
Speaker 1: he was everywhere. It's this sketch of this very strange
Speaker 1: looking man with black hair, black eyes, a receding hairline,
Speaker 1: these huge, bushy eyebrows, and razor thin lips turned up
Speaker 1: in this creepy little smile, with the words have you
Speaker 1: seen this man? Or ever dream this man? Written across
Speaker 1: the top. It looks almost like a wanted poster you'd
Speaker 1: find state do a telephone pole or tacked up at
Speaker 1: your local police station or post office or milk carton
Speaker 1: or milk carton. Now listeners go to the show notes
Speaker 1: to see what I'm talking about, because if you're not familiar,
Speaker 1: you gotta check this this thing out. It's an image
Speaker 1: that really resonates with people in strange ways. It's clearly
Speaker 1: a human face, yet at the same time it's not,
Speaker 1: And it's this slightly off kilter image of something that's
Speaker 1: supposed to be human, but at the same time isn't
Speaker 1: is what gives us this very uncomfortable feeling. Something called
Speaker 1: uncanny valley. Now uncanny valley, it's a real psychological concept
Speaker 1: that describes the feeling of unease or even revulsion we
Speaker 1: humans experience when we see or interact with something that
Speaker 1: is almost but not quite human. It's you see this
Speaker 1: concept a lot when it comes to AI and the
Speaker 1: AI robot scientists are developing ones that could almost perfectly
Speaker 1: mimic human expression and human speech, but no matter how
Speaker 1: hard scientists try, the result is never exactly human looking
Speaker 1: or exactly human sounding, which really fucks with people. It's
Speaker 1: like we have this deep rooted, subconscious revulsion to things
Speaker 1: that try to mimic us humans. We instinctively don't trust
Speaker 1: it and feel little empathy towards it. Pretty interesting stuff,
Speaker 1: this uncanny valley. And I think uncanny valley also applies
Speaker 1: to the sketch of this man. For whatever reason, deep down,
Speaker 1: he just gives people the creeps.
Speaker 2: I just saw the photo, So now that you see
Speaker 2: that being a little creepy, especially if I just woke
Speaker 2: up and I see it, I might be.
Speaker 1: Like, it's in your dream. You just remember it from
Speaker 1: your dream or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that could be a little right, A little bit
Speaker 2: like that. We did a show on this one internet,
Speaker 2: a horror thing on YouTube with it was scrying kids. Uh,
Speaker 2: I forget, I forget what it was you did here? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh momo, yeah that momoye.
Speaker 1: I remember that episode, the thank you I knew you
Speaker 1: knew it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So when you saw this man's photo, do you remember?
Speaker 1: Is that what you thought we were talking about?
Speaker 2: Yes, but so what little I knew about it? I
Speaker 2: hadn't actually seen a photo, So the wanted poster is
Speaker 2: a little new to me. But I know this phenomenon, okay,
Speaker 2: So like that's what I just heard about it. It's
Speaker 2: not like again, I didn't read a book round or anything.
Speaker 1: Got it? Okay? And how does it? So it is
Speaker 1: a little creepy to you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the photo itself, like by itself, Yes,
Speaker 2: it's a little creepy. It does it both equal parts?
Speaker 2: Seems computer generated or made up? And also it could
Speaker 2: be a real person. Sorry I'm sorry, a pitiable person
Speaker 2: maybe because I'm sorry you looked that way. But uh yeah,
Speaker 2: but yes, you know also both I feel like a
Speaker 2: little bit of both. And you were saying about the
Speaker 2: Uncanny Valley aspect of little empathy and all that right too,
Speaker 2: not real things right that are made to look like
Speaker 2: something else. I feel like animals get through. There's a
Speaker 2: lot too, like an equal footing. When you show them
Speaker 2: a realistic looking but completely fake dog next to your dog,
Speaker 2: they almost always get freak out. They almost always react.
Speaker 1: They don't like it. No, I don't like it.
Speaker 2: When you wear that cat mask and a humans walking
Speaker 2: around wearing it, they get freaked out. You see videos
Speaker 2: of them for funny and they freak out because they
Speaker 2: understand it's wrong, like on a nature level. It's like
Speaker 2: a nature level wrong. It's not just us. There's no
Speaker 2: logic to it.
Speaker 1: I'm going to research that. That's interesting.
Speaker 2: It feels like there's no logic to it. It's just
Speaker 2: it's just saying it's like just nature. We've seen like
Speaker 2: we're trying to fight nature in this case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've seen here with our cats. If there was
Speaker 1: a stuffed animal of a cat, they attack it. They
Speaker 1: don't like it, they avoid it.
Speaker 2: Really you know, Yeah, that sounds right. Damn, that's true
Speaker 2: with all of them. There's some weird cas I'm sure,
Speaker 2: but like in general, when you wear something semi realistic
Speaker 2: looking like that.
Speaker 1: It fixed them out crazy and so this is the thing.
Speaker 1: This is some deep rooted shit. Okay. So background and
Speaker 1: any information on this man, it's pretty vague. A lot
Speaker 1: of stories like this tend to have vague backgrounds, don't they. Well, yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: in the case of this man, it's said that in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, a quote well known psychiatrist in
Speaker 1: New York sketched the now infamous face based on a
Speaker 1: description provided by one of his patients, with the patient
Speaker 1: saying that this thing was haunting his dreams and that
Speaker 1: the man in the sketch didn't even closely resemble anyone
Speaker 1: the patient knew in the real world. Now, as the
Speaker 1: story goes, this well known psychiatrist, who's never named by
Speaker 1: the way, left his sketchbook open eyes his desk, and
Speaker 1: a few days later, another patient sees the sketch of
Speaker 1: this man and immediately freaks out, saying that he too
Speaker 1: had been seeing the same man in his dreams uh huh,
Speaker 1: and realizing that something strange was going on, the psychiatrist
Speaker 1: passes his sketch to some of his colleagues, and sure enough,
Speaker 1: many of their patients were also encountering this man in
Speaker 1: their dreams too.
Speaker 2: Is it like a visual infection? Interests, like a visual virus.
Speaker 1: That's that I have a theory later because.
Speaker 2: You know, because virus isn't bacteria that exist in so
Speaker 2: many different levels from coughing, even noise can have a
Speaker 2: sort of effect on you. Tonight is and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Sure frequencies we know that for sure has proven. Can
Speaker 2: you do that visually? I wonder if that's what this is.
Speaker 1: I bet you could. I think you could.
Speaker 2: Well, I have one tonight, interesting or tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Let us know if you do for sure.
Speaker 2: I'm curious, but I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't want well, there are two listeners. You know,
Speaker 1: if you look at the photo in.
Speaker 2: My Daily Waking life is not marsh enough.
Speaker 1: Just ruined your own life with his story, right? If
Speaker 1: you know, listeners see the photos in the show notes,
Speaker 1: and something happens with you, you dream it or encounter it,
Speaker 1: let us know, let us know, contact us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, continue to say so again.
Speaker 1: The idea of this man is that he's some sort
Speaker 1: of a dream surfer, someone or some thing that can
Speaker 1: enter our dreams at will. And although thousands of people
Speaker 1: from all over the world claim to encountered this man
Speaker 1: in their dreams. To this day, no one's been able
Speaker 1: to identify him in the real world as an actual
Speaker 1: flesh and blood person. And possibly even more strange is
Speaker 1: that descriptions of encounters with this man are all over
Speaker 1: the place, kind of like Nicholas Cage's character in Dream Scenario.
Speaker 2: Well, it should be sad that in that Dream Scenario film,
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of all the encounters in people's people
Speaker 2: he had in dreams with at first were just him
Speaker 2: watching them, like him, not involved.
Speaker 1: It was just that then it progressed.
Speaker 2: Like no matter that the person was having a dream,
Speaker 2: whatever that dream was, he was there just watching, even
Speaker 2: casually observing, but not doing anything his nuttil later in
Speaker 2: the movie spoiler that he becomes violent.
Speaker 1: Got it. Okay, So this kind of, I guess is
Speaker 1: similar because in the background a lot of people's dreams,
Speaker 1: he's a background character, just like Paul Matthews Nicholas Cage
Speaker 1: you just mentioned, kind of just standing there watching the
Speaker 1: dreamer with those black eyes and that strange smile. But
Speaker 1: then in other people's dreams they claim he's been sexual
Speaker 1: with them. In other instances, he provides the dreamer with
Speaker 1: cryptic advice. For example, a lot of stories say this
Speaker 1: man instructs the dreamer to simply go north, while in
Speaker 1: other dreams this man is violent, reportedly chasing down and
Speaker 1: murdering people. And if you look at the sketch and
Speaker 1: the image that this thing, and imagine this thing chasing
Speaker 1: you down and overtaking you, dude. Yeah. Most accounts say
Speaker 1: this man rarely speaks, except for the whole go north thing,
Speaker 1: but when he does speak, no one can remember what
Speaker 1: his voice sounds like, or even if he verbally speaks
Speaker 1: at all. Some say he communicates telepathically. Now, of course,
Speaker 1: people have been desperately trying to understand this man's intentions
Speaker 1: and to understand why he behaves so differently encounter to encounter,
Speaker 1: from benign to murderous. All we know is what he
Speaker 1: looks like, and that thousands of people from all over
Speaker 1: the world experience him in different, sometimes downright terrifying ways
Speaker 1: when they dream. Where he comes from and what he
Speaker 1: wants is anyone's guess. Of course, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: theories about who or what this man is. One theory
Speaker 1: is that this man is God. If you take it
Speaker 1: that way, yes God, Yes, if you take the idea
Speaker 1: that God is supposed to be the reflection of all
Speaker 1: humankind and vice versa. And if you cut the sketch
Speaker 1: of this man into four parts top, bottom, left, right,
Speaker 1: like I've done for you guys in the show notes,
Speaker 1: suddenly this man is many men or all men. If
Speaker 1: you look at this man from the nose up, he's
Speaker 1: clearly an old man. Look at the nose down, and
Speaker 1: he's a young man. And if you separate the left
Speaker 1: side of his face from the right side, he looks
Speaker 1: like two completely different people. It really is like this
Speaker 1: man is every man all rolled into one. Check the
Speaker 1: show notes to see what I'm talking about. It's freaky.
Speaker 2: It's not wrong, it's kind of freaky. Yeah, I'm looking
Speaker 2: at it. I'm doing it right now, dividing with my hand.
Speaker 1: You see that high line. So that's God, that's every man,
Speaker 1: the reflection of God. Man is the reflection of God.
Speaker 2: Right huh.
Speaker 1: Of course that doesn't explain this man killing people or
Speaker 1: having sex with them in their dreams. But it's a theory. Now,
Speaker 1: another theory, and I really like this one, is that
Speaker 1: this man is actually an archetype found in what Swiss
Speaker 1: psychiatrist and psychoanalyst Carl Jung called the collective unconscious now
Speaker 1: very briefly, According to Jung, the collective unconscious is a
Speaker 1: part of our human psyche that contains information inherited from
Speaker 1: our ancestors and shared by all humans. Jung believed that
Speaker 1: experiences of a common past have made deep, permanent impressions
Speaker 1: on the human mind, and that the collective unconscious contained archetypes,
Speaker 1: these universal symbols or themes that are present in the
Speaker 1: mythology and folklore of all cultures all over the globe.
Speaker 1: Some examples of common archetypes found in the collector of
Speaker 1: unconscious are the mother figure, seen as virginal and pure,
Speaker 1: mothering and supportive, yet seductive, unpredictable, mysterious, and cruel. There's
Speaker 1: the wise old man archetype, which symbolizes someone that possesses
Speaker 1: great wisdom, knowledge and judgment. There's the water archetype, symbolizing life, cleansing, mystery,
Speaker 1: and even death. And the tree of life archetype represents
Speaker 1: the source of life, the cycle of life, harmony, balance.
Speaker 1: Then there's the shadow archetype and the trickster archetype. Now,
Speaker 1: the shadow archetype consists of our behavior, traits, that we
Speaker 1: see as negative, and we tend to hide these shadow
Speaker 1: archetypes from others because it's our source of stress and shame.
Speaker 1: Our repressed ideas, weaknesses, wants, sexual desires, animal instincts, and
Speaker 1: are perceived these are all found in the shadow archetype. Now,
Speaker 1: the trickster archetype represents the irrational, chaotic, and unpredictable side
Speaker 1: of our thoughts and behavior, as well as humanity's duality
Speaker 1: are the fact that we're capable of greatness and evil,
Speaker 1: of being virtuous and deceitful, of being able to love
Speaker 1: and hate. So the theory is that this man is
Speaker 1: actually a subconscious archetype personified likely the shadow or the trickster,
Speaker 1: or a combination of the two. And I really like
Speaker 1: this theory, the idea that there's something we're experiencing on
Speaker 1: a subconscious level in our waking lives. Some problem or
Speaker 1: issue is personified in our dreams as this man to
Speaker 1: kind of help us deal with our issues. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, uncanny Valley makes us weary and even
Speaker 1: afraid of this man, so we're never able to fully
Speaker 1: reconcile whatever's bothering us, like our subconscious is fighting itself
Speaker 1: I think this is kind of really interesting theory and concept.
Speaker 2: That is cool. It does remind me of something else
Speaker 2: that will require and another animal example.
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 2: But I think attracts a little bit. Have you ever
Speaker 2: given or shown a pickle to a cat?
Speaker 1: Not a pickle? But I think we've done because we
Speaker 1: see if theyternet cucumbers, same thing. They hate them.
Speaker 2: They hate them, you know why?
Speaker 1: No, they think there are snakes subconscious.
Speaker 2: So animals have this. Birds, for example, they grow up
Speaker 2: when they leave the nest. They don't get instructions on
Speaker 2: how to build a nest. They just know how to
Speaker 2: do it from generations of birds. There you go, right,
Speaker 2: you can use that same if I use that same
Speaker 2: logic with humans. And obviously we're more much more complex
Speaker 2: in many ways and self aware, not to mention, I
Speaker 2: think that this could serve as a way that's collective unconsciousness.
Speaker 2: It could be like genetic information passed down unbeknownst to
Speaker 2: us in ways that we maybe don't understand. For example,
Speaker 2: like the human eye. I read this somewhere. The human
Speaker 2: eye can see more shades of green than any other
Speaker 2: color because we evolved from primates and in the jungle
Speaker 2: we had to discern those differences. We still have that
Speaker 2: from so long ago. We still have that ability. It's
Speaker 2: not like that's went away. It's not like we see
Speaker 2: more red now, No, we see green the most. And
Speaker 2: I think with that same logic you can apply it
Speaker 2: to this man being well, what is it? That narrative
Speaker 2: like answering that question is where you can go anywhere
Speaker 2: to what you said, which could explain a lot of
Speaker 2: where deitious lord, legend, folklore, especially if not religion, can
Speaker 2: come from from whatever this person used to be, if
Speaker 2: it was a person, right, you know, it's like that,
Speaker 2: and that makes it feel like more very interesting, fucking weird. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that could be cool. Right, So I like it. I
Speaker 2: connecting that.
Speaker 1: You're right, it does track. That's very interesting. This was
Speaker 1: This was a fun one. Yeah, researching. Okay, good, good, good.
Speaker 1: So you're into it so far? Yes, okay, Now how
Speaker 1: about something called the dream imitation theory. Now, while I
Speaker 1: like the theory about archetypes and the shadow and the trickster,
Speaker 1: I think something called the dream imitation theory makes the
Speaker 1: most sense when trying to describe what this man is. Now.
Speaker 1: This theory is really simple. The dream imitation theory says
Speaker 1: that people only dream about this man after hearing about
Speaker 1: him and seeing his picture. That seeing his picture and
Speaker 1: hearing his story leaves an imprint in people's subconscious, probably
Speaker 1: due to uncanny Valley, and that image is then expressed
Speaker 1: in dreams. I'm sure we've all had this happen one
Speaker 1: time or another, where maybe we see something on TV
Speaker 1: right before we fall asleep and bam, it's in our
Speaker 1: dream that night. Right, to me, this theory makes the
Speaker 1: most sense, kind of like the virus or what you
Speaker 1: were saying earlier, I get a dream this tonight right
Speaker 1: because we talked about it same thing here. I think
Speaker 1: that makes the most sense.
Speaker 2: Also, I feel like maybe what goes in hand in
Speaker 2: hand with that that could support this theory is that
Speaker 2: maybe because of the simplicity and yet uniqueness of the sketch,
Speaker 2: that upon hearing the story, maybe not so much the story,
Speaker 2: but watching or looking at the picture, it is it
Speaker 2: makes a veritable imprint into your mind more than any
Speaker 2: other random thing like the poster behind your head, or
Speaker 2: your bottles or booze on that wall, because it isn't familiar,
Speaker 2: right right, and it it imprints it fatter. It makes
Speaker 2: it easier for people to recollect it in a dream
Speaker 2: the day after, the night the night of, or a
Speaker 2: week later, and therefore report it or talk about it,
Speaker 2: and it becomes like snowballs itself and two lore that
Speaker 2: we're here today.
Speaker 1: Interesting talking about it. Yeah, yeah, maybe who knows? No,
Speaker 1: you're good, that's right now. Over the years, of course,
Speaker 1: people have searched our world, the real world, for inspiration
Speaker 1: behind this man, like the actual flush and flesh and
Speaker 1: blood person that inspired this man. As it turns out,
Speaker 1: there are people out there who just might be the
Speaker 1: inspiration behind this man, and actually quite a few, and
Speaker 1: I've chosen four four people who this might be. Again,
Speaker 1: check the show notes, because I've created images comparing this
Speaker 1: man to each of the people we're going to talk about.
Speaker 1: Actually it's three people and an object. You'll see what
Speaker 1: I mean. Anyway, check out the photos. All right, So
Speaker 1: the first one Carl Sagan. Okay, Carl Sagan. One possible
Speaker 1: culprit is world famous astronomer, astrophysicist, and science communicator, the
Speaker 1: late doctor Carl Sagan. Now, in case you don't know,
Speaker 1: at one point, doctor Sagan was the most well known
Speaker 1: scientist in the country, if not the world before Neil
Speaker 1: deGrasse Tyson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he Keep Your Herd Out one of those books.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I did too, I did too, And he's
Speaker 1: probably Sagan is probably most famous for his research and
Speaker 1: the possibility of extraterrestrial life and for a thirteen part
Speaker 1: television series he did in the eighties called Cosmos a
Speaker 1: Personal Voyage, which has been viewed by almost half a
Speaker 1: billion people worldwide. Just massive reach. Actually, there's so much
Speaker 1: to talk about regarding Sagan's work and his contributions to
Speaker 1: science and the search for aliens that we just don't
Speaker 1: have time to even put a dent. But unfortunately, it's
Speaker 1: Sagan's eyebrows, his receding hairline, and big forehead that make
Speaker 1: him this man suspect. And when you put the two
Speaker 1: side by side, you can really see a resemblance. And
Speaker 1: what I really like about the car Sagan is this
Speaker 1: man theory is that doctor Sagan was so whimsical, his
Speaker 1: theories so out there, and his contributions to the search
Speaker 1: for et life were so vast. Wouldn't it just be
Speaker 1: perfect if he somehow lived on as this man.
Speaker 2: Also could be perfect that an alien would choosing I'm
Speaker 2: like amalgamation of the human that's closest to understanding or
Speaker 2: looking for them to like imparent their nature unto us,
Speaker 2: because it's so weird an alien exactly.
Speaker 1: The other thing that the whole alien aspect with Sagan
Speaker 1: think of him. Not that he necessarily talked about men
Speaker 1: in black, but a lot of encounters people have with
Speaker 1: men in black. Supposedly, you know, they're like, they look
Speaker 1: like the man, the man, but something was just off,
Speaker 1: maybe very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: They just didn't act the same way we would act.
Speaker 1: They didn't dress the same way we would dress. Their
Speaker 1: facial expressions didn't match how ours what ours would do?
Speaker 1: You know, That's what it reminds me. I just go.
Speaker 1: Here's another possible suspect. Rich and famous for his work
Speaker 1: on the Broadway plays Cats, Jesus Christ, superstar Avedra Joseph,
Speaker 1: an amazing technicolor dream coat fan of the opera in
Speaker 1: School of Rock. Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber is also famous
Speaker 1: for possibly being the inspiration behind this man. Really now,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but Sir Andrew Lloyd Rubber is a really
Speaker 1: odd looking dude. Just go to the show notes with
Speaker 1: his weird lips, bushy eyebrows, high forehead more like a
Speaker 1: five head, and his receding hairline. When I put his
Speaker 1: photo next to the sketch of this man, the resemblance
Speaker 1: literally gave me the chills. Check the show notes you'll
Speaker 1: see what I mean. I do not want to have
Speaker 1: a dream starring Sir Andrew Lloyd rubber running and hunting
Speaker 1: me down. No, thank you, very scary.
Speaker 2: Well, you're an active dreamer, you can play back, no problem.
Speaker 1: I am a lucid dreamer. Lucid I could I could
Speaker 1: control it, to wake up from it on my command.
Speaker 1: If I don't like the way it's going, I could
Speaker 1: say I can do that sometimes change it. Yep, yep,
Speaker 1: that's always I've always been. Yeah. Now, next we have
Speaker 1: Michael J. Anderson. Do you know what that is? No,
Speaker 1: it sounds though, okay, who's best known for his role
Speaker 1: as the Man from Another Place in David Lynch's awesome
Speaker 1: television series Twin Peaks and from the movie Twin Peaks
Speaker 1: Fire Walk with Me.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've seen all that's one of my favorite shows.
Speaker 1: Both from the early nineties. Right, Yeah, loved it. The
Speaker 1: Man from Another Place is that tiny character that lived
Speaker 1: in the Black Lodge. He dressed in the red suit.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, that's yes, and from another.
Speaker 2: Places and who very creepily words out of all these
Speaker 2: people so far him, I can immediately envision check as
Speaker 2: he talks backwards. Yes, well forward, but it's like we
Speaker 2: recorded backwards and said forward. It's like one of those
Speaker 2: weird effects.
Speaker 1: The actor isn't talking backwards.
Speaker 2: Well, he does talk backwards in reality, but then they
Speaker 2: play that forward and that's why it sounds so weird.
Speaker 1: That's how they did it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like some weird trick where they it's either
Speaker 2: said backwards and played forward, which I don't think so,
Speaker 2: I think it's said backwards and played words or whatever.
Speaker 1: I just remember he was like, yeah, that's why I
Speaker 1: was like, I would get the goosebumps every time he talked.
Speaker 1: That's Michael Anderson. So if I guess, if you know,
Speaker 1: you know right kids, ask your parents right now. Michael Anderson.
Speaker 1: He was born with a genetic disorder called osteogenesis imperfecta,
Speaker 1: a disease that leads to frequent breaks and long bones
Speaker 1: and improper healing, which ultimately left Michael with the shortened
Speaker 1: stature of only three feet seven inches three feet seven inches.
Speaker 1: His short stature and misshapen head lent a heavy creep
Speaker 1: factor to his Twin Peaks character, and if you compare
Speaker 1: his photo to the sketch of this man, there is
Speaker 1: a resemblance. And Michael J. Anderson is often credited as
Speaker 1: being the inspiration behind this man.
Speaker 2: And he's obviously super famous among a lot of things.
Speaker 2: He's done a lot of movies, especially with David Lynch,
Speaker 2: but arguably his most famous thing is that he appears
Speaker 2: in in an FBI agent's dream. Oh twin p I'm
Speaker 2: saying he's famous for appearing in dreams. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Good point. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't write you just describe.
Speaker 2: That scene while he's talking backward. That's the dream. That
Speaker 2: agent was his name.
Speaker 1: Oh god, he's gonna kill me.
Speaker 2: Damn coffee fuck whatever, his famous whatever.
Speaker 1: No, great point, he's in the dream. So yeah, a
Speaker 1: lot of people credit him with being So that's just
Speaker 1: one more peg for Michael J. Anderson. Yeah, he appears
Speaker 1: in people's dreams.
Speaker 2: Okay, finally, as far next to Robert England for appearance, Well.
Speaker 1: There's some Freddie esque to this to ask, you know,
Speaker 1: not he's violent, but the final one, It's not a human.
Speaker 1: I like it because it plays heavily with this idea
Speaker 1: of uncanny uncanny Valley, where we as humans are again
Speaker 1: subconsciously programmed to be leery of things that are made
Speaker 1: to look human. And what better example than an old
Speaker 1: school ventriloquist dummy. Oh now, This particular dummy was featured
Speaker 1: in two Twilight Zone episodes, one titled The Dummy from
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, where the dummy was named Willie, and
Speaker 1: another episode called Caesar in Me from nineteen sixty four,
Speaker 1: where the dummy was named well, Caesar. Now, even though
Speaker 1: both episodes have different plots, there is a common thread
Speaker 1: of the dummy having free will, and in both episodes
Speaker 1: it torments and manipulates the ventriloquist in different frightening ways.
Speaker 2: Oh so it's a bitch, it's an asshole.
Speaker 1: Yes, now, I rewatched both of these episodes before I
Speaker 1: scripted this episode, and they're they're awesome. They're so good
Speaker 1: for their time. I I mean no other you can't incomparable.
Speaker 1: Rod Serling fantastic, Highly recommend both episodes. Check them out anyway.
Speaker 1: If you look at the image I left from the
Speaker 1: show notes, there are a lot of similarities between this
Speaker 1: man and the Twilight Zone Dummy, and you add that creepy,
Speaker 1: uncanny Valley factor, and considering this dummy is famous and
Speaker 1: it's old, it predates the games of this man, I
Speaker 1: think this very well could be the real inspiration behind
Speaker 1: this Man. Listeners, check the show notes. Let us know
Speaker 1: what you think. Contact at Chicago Ghost podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: And just so you know, the dummy, the Twilight Zone
Speaker 1: Dummy is alive and well and living in David Copperfield's
Speaker 1: International Museum of Library of the Conjuring Arts in Las Vegas.
Speaker 1: International Museum and Library of the Conjuring Arts in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: The National Library of Pithy Titles dot com.
Speaker 1: So the dummy still exists now. Alas as intriguing as
Speaker 1: the story is, this man might be nothing more than
Speaker 1: a well orchestrated hoax. You see, in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: an Italian sociologist and marketer named Andrea.
Speaker 2: You're like marker like? I heard that word in italics?
Speaker 1: Have it in italics right now? Marketer of his name
Speaker 1: was Andrea Natella. He created a website called Thisman dot org.
Speaker 1: And it's this website that gave us the story of
Speaker 1: the unnamed, well known psychiatrist from New York and how
Speaker 1: he created the famous sketch based off his patrons description
Speaker 1: it's all on this website, and it's this website that
Speaker 1: described how this man looks and how he acts. And
Speaker 1: after this man went viral, Natella opened up and admitted
Speaker 1: he made the whole thing up at a gorilla marketing
Speaker 1: campaign to explore the power of the Internet's ability to
Speaker 1: create and spread urban legends and collective myths.
Speaker 2: So like creepypasta stuff.
Speaker 1: Yes, Natella even admitted that the sketch of this man
Speaker 1: was based off a photograph he had his own father
Speaker 1: when his father was a young man. And for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: just like with Creepy Pasta and slender Man, the image
Speaker 1: of this man resonates with people on this deep level.
Speaker 1: And from there, the Internet did what it does best.
Speaker 1: It commandeered Natella's creation, pure fiction given a massive boost
Speaker 1: by the Internet, nothing more, nothing less. Or maybe this
Speaker 1: man really is a dream surfer and what happened with
Speaker 1: Natella was reverse dream imitation theory. In other words, this
Speaker 1: man entered Natella's dreams, which in turn inspired Natella to
Speaker 1: create the website and the image and the story which
Speaker 1: brought this man to the masses, and now he's everywhere.
Speaker 1: He's real, and people all over the world are experiencing
Speaker 1: him at their most vulnerable time while they're asleep. And
Speaker 1: maybe this man is out there right now surfing Young's
Speaker 1: collective unconscious, waiting for the next person to fall asleep.
Speaker 1: All right, this man and that's this this is this is.
Speaker 1: I like this one. I like this one. I like
Speaker 1: the concept of a dream surfer. I like the concept
Speaker 1: of this common theme that people have all over the
Speaker 1: world at their most vulnerable time, and are experiencing this
Speaker 1: common theme at their most vulnerable time while they're asleep.
Speaker 1: I just love that idea.
Speaker 2: It is no, it is cool, it's nifty. It is
Speaker 2: Freddy Krueger ask in some way. If anything, it's limiting
Speaker 2: for Fredday Krueger. I feel like he's thinking too small.
Speaker 2: These kids on Illmon Street.
Speaker 1: You go for it.
Speaker 2: You can expand yourself world. Why to fucking throw We
Speaker 2: need some marketing. You need Nuttle over there to do
Speaker 2: it for you. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: Like, was his name Nutella? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, it's it's cool. It reminds me also, well,
Speaker 2: the other thing we talked about so far, which is
Speaker 2: much closer to what I'm about to say, there is this.
Speaker 2: I mean, the nine n Stream movies are dumb, but
Speaker 2: they're really cool in concept and the way it can
Speaker 2: be funny and horrifying, the way dreams can go crazy.
Speaker 2: But one of those things is that in the sixth
Speaker 2: movie I want to say, Uh, Freddy, is that there's
Speaker 2: a whole aspect to it where there are these like
Speaker 2: weird demons of a sorts that are like, they give
Speaker 2: Freddy Krueger demons. Yes, they give created Freddy Krueger's powers.
Speaker 2: And these demons could be very easily be personified to
Speaker 2: be like that Netflix show Just Sandman. That could be
Speaker 2: more Morpheus, or it could be the dream God or
Speaker 2: you know, a night like It feels like it could
Speaker 2: be an amalgamation of that, or one of his foot
Speaker 2: soldiers gives Daku the power to antro dreams as a
Speaker 2: gatekeeper of sorts. Now, the movie doesn't try to make
Speaker 2: sense out of it. It's really dumb, but it's but
Speaker 2: it's like another angle to something that we will never
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say never, but never really understand because dreams
Speaker 2: are so like infallible, like they're just they're there and
Speaker 2: you can never grab them. It's like water trying to
Speaker 2: grab water, you know. So like it's it's it's almost
Speaker 2: like uh uh, it's proof that's evident proof or whatever,
Speaker 2: tamper proof whatever, like you can't poke holds in it
Speaker 2: because it doesn't exist. Like it's so it's so weird
Speaker 2: and it makes it cool. That's my point. It makes
Speaker 2: it cool. It makes it. It just makes it adds
Speaker 2: a layer. And in that movie they were just doing
Speaker 2: it to be fun. I remember he still though, Yeah,
Speaker 2: my god, I remember those glasses, but it was still
Speaker 2: an added layer. And I thought it was cool thinking
Speaker 2: about not in sense of Freddy Kruger, but in just
Speaker 2: other ways. And it was cool. I liked that. It
Speaker 2: reminds me of Samman and this story.
Speaker 1: It's interesting and they could take on other shapes o
Speaker 1: their forms.
Speaker 2: Yeah maybe, yeah right, I love it. So you like
Speaker 2: I do good one.
Speaker 1: I hope listeners liked it. Yeah, it feels like it
Speaker 1: was a shorter one.
Speaker 2: But that's okay. I'm okay with Oh yeah, no, I'm
Speaker 2: okay with that too. I do something if you want,
Speaker 2: we don't have to. I do not often, but I
Speaker 2: occasionally viably dream. I don't have control on my dreams,
Speaker 2: but I do dream. Almost every time I dream is
Speaker 2: something very bizarre. By very bizarre, I just mean it's
Speaker 2: rarely anything bland or boring at least the ones I remember.
Speaker 2: And what I try to do is as soon as
Speaker 2: I wake up, I do my very most to write
Speaker 2: it down.
Speaker 1: Do you remember we did this?
Speaker 2: Yeah? We did this before we do this for Patreon?
Speaker 2: Was it for Patreon?
Speaker 1: Where we we we kept dream journals? Oh?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 1: And then we talked about it and we went into
Speaker 1: depth about dreaming, and yes we did. And then we
Speaker 1: at the very maybe we.
Speaker 2: Could we do that show or something.
Speaker 1: I would love to do that again. That was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 2: I still have those old ones.
Speaker 1: I still have it.
Speaker 2: Oh you still have it's even better? Well, then, maybe
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say I was going to offer a weird
Speaker 2: dream that I had that has nothing to do with this. Oh,
Speaker 2: I don't dream. I don't dream of a man yeah,
Speaker 2: or anything man ride with the thin lips and ship. No,
Speaker 2: I didn't dream that, But but I've had a weird ones. No,
Speaker 2: I will save it. That's even better in case we
Speaker 2: do a dream episode, because I write a lot like
Speaker 2: this is a lot.
Speaker 1: Oh well so it's a lot.
Speaker 2: So no, I'll save it. That's cool. Thank you reminding me.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, were talking about dreams, I could
Speaker 2: offer a weird dream, but I could offer right next
Speaker 2: we in a better, more thematic thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for that Patreon episode, it's been it's been a while.
Speaker 1: It might have been during COVID or pre COVID. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we journaled for about a week. I'd wake up and
Speaker 1: just jot down whatever the hell, and it was some
Speaker 1: weird STU it was. Yeah, it was interesting. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was fun. We got in a different type of
Speaker 1: dreams and interpretations of common themes and dreams.
Speaker 2: I think, let see Raven wasn't that one.
Speaker 1: I think she was? Yeah? Yeah, okay, cool, So maybe
Speaker 1: we should revisit that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be fun.
Speaker 1: Cool. Well, I'm glad you liked it, listeners, I hope
Speaker 1: you liked it. If you have any feedback, contact at
Speaker 1: Chicago Ghost podcast dot com ghost or call eight seven
Speaker 1: to two five two nine zero seven six seven oscar
Speaker 1: take us home.
Speaker 2: Don't use that number, okay, are you spaghetti.
Speaker 1: Sounds good? Does that mean? Yes? I found out food
Speaker 1: and like it's like a It's literally like a drug
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: Food is like, oh, I say, as a coping thing
Speaker 2: or something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean changing making these changes that I have
Speaker 1: in my life, it affects you like I would imagine.
Speaker 1: I've never withdrawn from drugs. I've never withdrawn from alcohol,
Speaker 1: never been an addict, but I would imagine that's what
Speaker 1: addicts go through with the wild mood swings, the anger,
Speaker 1: the sadness, the manic happiness, the it's crazy. It's fucking food.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean also is I mean sugar is a
Speaker 2: huge one component and food for the addicting essence, especially processed.
Speaker 2: If you can't imagine, I mean, I can't imagine.
Speaker 1: You'll have to ship we here is outlawed in other countries,
Speaker 1: like you won't find it in Europe. You know, it's
Speaker 1: been really hard. That's when you said like spaghetti, I'm
Speaker 1: like fucking spaghetti. What I'm trying to think? Man?
Speaker 2: I also saw the have you ever heard of twin films?
Speaker 2: Twin films is like a phenomenon that happens in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: Doante's peak? Uh, there you go Doante's Peak volcano and
Speaker 2: then Deep Impact Andaghetti. Yeah, those are the classic ones.
Speaker 2: There's a new there's a this one that just came
Speaker 2: out a few months ago. The first Omen and Immaculate.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, first Omen. Loved it, loved it.
Speaker 2: It was fun.
Speaker 1: Thought it was great.
Speaker 2: I thought it was fun. Yes, and it was a
Speaker 2: great way, great twist on the prequel. It was that
Speaker 2: kind of cool. So Immaculated very similar vibes. Both take
Speaker 2: place in Italy or something both about a nun about
Speaker 2: non being pregnant. Also her attractiveness or being attractive is
Speaker 2: part of the thing, and it's about a weird convent
Speaker 2: where they do shady shit. It's very similar vibes. They're
Speaker 2: twin films for sure, and they came out within a
Speaker 2: month of each other.
Speaker 1: Because so I haven't seen that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked Immaculate, did you. I didn't love it,
Speaker 2: but I love it.
Speaker 1: I heard the ending was lacking, wanting more sort of thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of moves to that. I
Speaker 2: don't know. I guess it didn't bother me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen it. Liked Domen. That's why
Speaker 1: I heard about a maculate. So I didn't. I haven't
Speaker 1: watched it, but maybe i'll check it out. I really
Speaker 1: liked omen. Well, then we had The Pope Exorcist. Now
Speaker 1: we got this other one with Russell Crowe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Ectocism.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so where everyone was like part two.
Speaker 2: No, it is not at all. It's about the making
Speaker 2: of a movie that's like The Anciocist.
Speaker 1: Is that what it's about.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it's about he's an actor playing like the
Speaker 2: priest in the He's playing father Merrick Maren Maren Man.
Speaker 2: He's playing like the father Marin type in a movie
Speaker 2: that's like The Axiosist, but it's not the actio and
Speaker 2: then that production gets haunted and he gets possessed. It's
Speaker 2: kind of cool, but it has nothing to do with
Speaker 2: the Popeist.
Speaker 1: Got it? Well, they sure marketed to kind of look
Speaker 1: that way. It did.
Speaker 2: I think they're fucking with us.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that reminds Nicholas Cage Uh, Archurians, Centurions, oh Manchurians, No, No, Circadian.
Speaker 2: Arcadian hated it. I didn't see it. I was I
Speaker 2: almost saw it, and then you told me you didn't
Speaker 2: like it. Oh, we did talk about that one no,
Speaker 2: you're texted me like you sucked. That's all you told me.
Speaker 1: I don't know why it sucked, but I had such
Speaker 1: high hopes. Man, it looked so good. He has a cage.
Speaker 2: Of course, Yeah right, well, Okage, it's really up in
Speaker 2: the air. It's flip a coin on him.
Speaker 1: How could an And that was my whole Nicholas Cage
Speaker 1: horror film with these with creatures.
Speaker 2: I mean, not eveything's mandy.
Speaker 1: How could it be boring? It was fucking boring. And
Speaker 1: what really made me wanted to see it. I was
Speaker 1: reading an article it was like on dread Dread Central
Speaker 1: or something, and it said that the director, the creator
Speaker 1: whoever got the idea from the for the monsters off
Speaker 1: of Goofy from Disney. Oh, and I'm like, I gotta
Speaker 1: see this. So the first two times you see the monsters,
Speaker 1: you're like, whoa, that's crazy. Never seen something like that before.
Speaker 1: Then you're like, fucking stop already, it's enough. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you ever see it, you'll see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I've no idea. What about if I'm gonna say it, well.
Speaker 1: It's the so the monsters, their their face, their mouth.
Speaker 1: You could if you think goofy. You could see it.
Speaker 1: But their whole thing is like they open and close
Speaker 1: their mouths really really fast, and it makes this like.
Speaker 2: So think of like we've seen that one Goofy skid,
Speaker 2: the one goofy skit where he is he's in court
Speaker 2: for for a first degree murder of murdering all these
Speaker 2: children in the school bus and he's like, quash, I'll
Speaker 2: do it again. I love blood, like in that voice
Speaker 2: though that it's like an online YouTube sketch thing. It's
Speaker 2: so hilarious, and the and the lawyer is like, you're
Speaker 2: on there. My client's insane, clearly has no responsibility for
Speaker 2: his actions, and please exonerate him. He's he's very sick,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I'll do it again, don't let me out, Like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's so funny because he's doing the
Speaker 2: goofy voice and it's just it's blood on them still.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, fucking great.
Speaker 1: Not good. I really want to see long legs dying
Speaker 1: to see language. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I saw a trailer. I didn't spoil anything, thankfully. It's
Speaker 2: just like a very ethereal, a very weird trailer. I
Speaker 2: mean they're up in there. You just don't know it's
Speaker 2: like Nicholas Cach movie, you just don't know what you're
Speaker 2: going to get.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I saw The Bike Riders, and I hated that I
Speaker 2: saw that trailer because it picked it a different movie
Speaker 2: than it was.
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, bike Writers, you mean with Jar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Austin Butler and Tom Hardy.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't good.
Speaker 2: Oh I liked the movie. It wasn't great, though, I
Speaker 2: feel like it has some problems. But it takes place
Speaker 2: in Chicago. There's sixties, I mean, gives me a lot
Speaker 2: of those those awesome vibes for sure. It just doesn't
Speaker 2: lead anywhere that I thought it was going again one
Speaker 2: because of the trailer, and trailer made it seemed like
Speaker 2: those just like like the Good Fellows of Bike Riders,
Speaker 2: but it's not. It's but it's not right, but it's
Speaker 2: not and like it makes you want to watch Goodfellows,
Speaker 2: but not necessarily The Bike Riders. Like I said, I
Speaker 2: had some fun with it. I think you like it, maybe,
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe you could love it. Maybe I'm seeing
Speaker 2: it way off too, But I just remember feeling more
Speaker 2: disappointed or equal parts disappointed as I thought it was cool.
Speaker 2: So it was like a mixed back.
Speaker 1: Hum, well that so I thought it was gonna be fantastic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I love that director. You did some
Speaker 2: really good movies. Who was the directer, Nicholschaels something Nichols
Speaker 2: for guys, Jeff Nichols. He did Midnight Special and he
Speaker 2: saw that he did Take Shelter, some movie I showed you.
Speaker 1: With Michael Shannon.
Speaker 2: Yes, he has those prophetic dreams of the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did that movie. I think I remember liking
Speaker 1: that movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you liked that. Yeah, that was on
Speaker 2: the time I got.
Speaker 1: Show it to Take Shelter. No.
Speaker 2: The first one Midnight Special that's with that's an old
Speaker 2: Michael Shelter Michael Shannonson. It's about the kid who like
Speaker 2: has like these alien powers and the government's trying to
Speaker 2: go after him, but he's living in a in a cult,
Speaker 2: like in a Christian cult that's like worshiping him and
Speaker 2: trying to use him for but the governments after him.
Speaker 2: Michael Shannon's the father trying to break him out of that.
Speaker 1: I swear, I know. I think you're seeing it because
Speaker 1: we like Michael Shannon. So if a movie comes out
Speaker 1: and watch it. Except the Iceman, I didn't really like
Speaker 1: The Iceman, but I didn't love anither Arcadian. I really
Speaker 1: want to see Talia saw the New m Night shamal
Speaker 1: in one.
Speaker 2: I saw the Watchers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Watchers. Yeah, she liked it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun. It's not like an actual horror movie.
Speaker 2: I I would call it more of a mystery thriller.
Speaker 1: I'm good with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you're good. Yeah, it's almost it's almost like
Speaker 2: a movie good for kids too. It's very like it's
Speaker 2: not trying to like show a lot, like all the
Speaker 2: DA's are kind of off screen in the moment, like
Speaker 2: they cut away, which is good, which is fine. Again,
Speaker 2: it's more of a mystery. I like the mystery in
Speaker 2: the end. I don't know if you'll find it ridiculous.
Speaker 1: I liked it.
Speaker 2: It's supernatural, which is cool.
Speaker 1: Great. Yeah, we were gonna go see that in the movie,
Speaker 1: which we just never did. Fun. There's two Shyamalan movies, right.
Speaker 2: So that's not him, that's his daughter.
Speaker 1: That's what it was.
Speaker 2: That's she's a Nepple baby. She wrote and directed it,
Speaker 2: and then her father M. Knight produced it and obviously
Speaker 2: made it happen, which one the Watchers what we think.
Speaker 1: I thought there were two Chamalan movies.
Speaker 2: So there is one that he's having this year. It's
Speaker 2: not out yet, though.
Speaker 1: What's it called?
Speaker 2: I forget?
Speaker 1: I did too, but didn't we see a preview for it?
Speaker 2: I think I might have. I don't remember. I can
Speaker 2: see the choir place one. Yeah, got this weekend?
Speaker 1: Of course? Oh does it?
Speaker 2: I think that's this week? I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2: I really want to see Maxine. That's the one.
Speaker 1: I really want to see. M A X s X Pearl. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's her name?
Speaker 2: Mia Goth that's it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, i'd watch it.
Speaker 2: I really want to. It's you know, it's about the Nightstalker, right,
Speaker 2: did not?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 2: It takes place in La during the Nice Talker and
Speaker 2: the seventies eighty or whatever. And she's like, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's all very whatever. It's not going to be based
Speaker 2: on reality, but like that's what it looks like. The
Speaker 2: news are in the trailer are talking about the nice
Speaker 2: Talkers out there killing women, and she's out there at night,
Speaker 2: you know, and a woman, So like it's gonna be
Speaker 2: like I don't know, what's I don't know. I haven't
Speaker 2: seen a preview for it, but it just looks cool,
Speaker 2: looks stylistic, it looks eighties looks like Yeah, I want
Speaker 2: to see that too, Yes, of course, I mean that's
Speaker 2: gonna make so much money.
Speaker 1: We Keaton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw Inside Out too? Also.
Speaker 1: Uh, they Italian gave Italian whoever she went with, They
Speaker 1: went yesterday or the day before. You see it. They
Speaker 1: loved it. Yeah, it's great. I saw twice, did you really?
Speaker 2: Yes, I like the first one and if you watch it,
Speaker 2: you'll be like, that's me really, like that's my lead
Speaker 2: emotion right there.
Speaker 1: Oh I got to see it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: We did a review on it and it just came
Speaker 2: out yesterday and we spent like an hour talking about
Speaker 2: that fucking movie.
Speaker 1: Wow, all right, Yes, they loved it. They said it
Speaker 1: was sad. Oh yeah, yeah, I'll definitely watch it. We
Speaker 1: watched the first one. What else am I excited about? Series?
Speaker 1: Let's talk about on Apple TV. There's a Jake Jillenhall roadhouse.
Speaker 1: I saw that.
Speaker 2: It's on Prime.
Speaker 1: You know what. It was fun? It was fun?
Speaker 2: Well, like, yes, it was fun. I had fun with it.
Speaker 2: There's some kind of wacky direction with the punching and stuff,
Speaker 2: like the first camera pe will be punching thing that
Speaker 2: they did in the movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2: That was kind of weird and wacky. I wouldn't say
Speaker 2: that the action whiled me. Beyond that point, I kind
Speaker 2: of wish it was better. Really, I thought it was great,
Speaker 2: but no, no, but it was still fun. It was
Speaker 2: like fun and I liked it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I think it tried to be a little too gritty
Speaker 2: when it didn't have to. But ultimately, I'm like, I
Speaker 2: think the reason I don't love this movie the way
Speaker 2: I liked the original is because just Patrick Series is
Speaker 2: just much more charming than J. J.
Speaker 1: Lehull.
Speaker 2: Like, I found him way more convincing in a ridiculous
Speaker 2: role like this then J. J. Leholl. Really yeah, I
Speaker 2: think ultimately J. Hull is trying it is like he's
Speaker 2: he's like two Emo, maybe more than Swaysey. Was interesting
Speaker 2: because I was like, maybe it's the lead. I think
Speaker 2: how I think? I like, I think it's just the
Speaker 2: leading man. I'm like, I think I just prefer Swayzy
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 2: You know well?
Speaker 1: I mean, of course that pushed us to go and
Speaker 1: watch the first one again. Could it have been?
Speaker 2: I saw it too before I saw it like a
Speaker 2: week before.
Speaker 1: It was great. Yeah, Don Henley? Is it Don Henley
Speaker 1: the Blind? He just died? No, he didn't just die,
Speaker 1: he died a while ago. The band. Oh yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I used to listen to his music. It's Done Henley,
Speaker 1: I think. So, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm bad with me.
Speaker 1: It's fantastic. It's just so eighties. It's so great. So
Speaker 1: we had fun with it. I fucking hate Connor McGregor.
Speaker 1: I hate he is Who was that? Connor McGregor was
Speaker 1: the main villain in in the New One? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh the UFC fighters. So I heard Bob told me
Speaker 2: that he's an actual fighter. Oh yeah, And I didn't
Speaker 2: know that because I don't know about that's huge. I
Speaker 2: didn't know anything about him. It was my first time
Speaker 2: watching him.
Speaker 1: Yep, he's garbage. He was wacky in that movie, crazy
Speaker 1: the way he wants it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what do you hate him? He's crazy?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: He's just a pukey.
Speaker 1: He's just a puke. So I like that. But Jake Jonhall,
Speaker 1: there's this series called Presumed Innocent, and that's the TV.
Speaker 2: It's really I get a lot of trailers for that.
Speaker 1: It's good.
Speaker 2: I just don't know if I'm ready for that kind
Speaker 2: of mystery right now. I saw a trailers that looks
Speaker 2: like one of those kinds of movie shows on my own.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I want something he does. You
Speaker 2: know what else is Chakawa that I really love? That's
Speaker 2: also on Apple TV. I saw Dark Matter Matter.
Speaker 1: What I stopped?
Speaker 2: Where did you stop?
Speaker 1: Third episode? I'm like, I can't do this anymore? Why not?
Speaker 1: If I hear this one more time, I'm gonna fucking
Speaker 1: shoot myself.
Speaker 2: The Lifelick it's like three times an episode is not
Speaker 2: that much to its not that much?
Speaker 1: Oh my, I don't like it. We tried, I really tried.
Speaker 2: It gets so much better if you can get to
Speaker 2: the last two episodes, it goes fucking bonkers. Really yeah,
Speaker 2: it does.
Speaker 1: But you know, maybe maybe it's been because we tried.
Speaker 1: We did try.
Speaker 2: It's so good.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: I want to be the Bolg now because there's may
Speaker 2: it's based by an author that I read one of
Speaker 2: his other books with Kerchon, which is badass.
Speaker 1: I remember, like, oh I've heard of that author or something.
Speaker 1: This is this is uh?
Speaker 2: He actually like wrote and directed the show a lot too,
Speaker 2: so he's like his first time involved in it.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So maybe maybe we'll give it a
Speaker 1: try at some point, but I just couldn't take it anymore.
Speaker 1: It's very hard.
Speaker 2: I definitely don't take drugs at all, and this is
Speaker 2: like acid or something, oh, coke sometimes?
Speaker 1: Ah?
Speaker 2: Okay, waity spaghetti.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One hundred and fifty five, one fifty five. What
Speaker 1: did you say last episode? Right? This is one fifty five?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Did you say something else before?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Okay, Then I.
Speaker 1: Wrote one fifty four because I didn't know when I
Speaker 1: wrote this, I didn't know I was going to have
Speaker 1: an update episode.
Speaker 2: Oh I see, Oh I see.
Speaker 1: So it's one forty five.
Speaker 2: Okay, is no difference?
Speaker 1: No, no, but we just did one for the four yes, okay,
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna say one
Speaker 2: Five, yes, yes, all right, let's do this and five four,
Speaker 2: three two