WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:18.120 Coming to you from the dining room table at East 2 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:22.000 Barbary Lane. Welcome to a special episode of Full Circle 3 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:26.120 the podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Junior, and 4 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.399 today I am thrilled to be sitting with our guest. 5 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:36.840 Juano Diaz is a wonderful author and artist, and his autobiography, 6 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:40.880 entitled Slumboy, has been called by The Guardian one of 7 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:44.880 the most moving accounts of non fiction ever written, and 8 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:49.039 I cannot help but agree. Wano, thank you so much 9 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:50.439 for joining us. How are you? 10 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:53.719 I'm good? Thank you so much, Charles. That's some introduction. 11 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:55.119 Thank you. 12 00:00:55.119 --> 00:01:02.679 You definitely deserve it. So the first question that I 13 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:07.439 decided I needed to ask you after reading this turbulent, 14 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:12.719 tumultuous tale that was alliterated, is how are you doing now? 15 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:14.439 Tell me good things about yourself now? 16 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:22.680 Yes, I am good. Honestly, I thought as an adult, 17 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:26.159 I thought to myself, you know what I've lived with 18 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:29.239 my past. I've lived with my childhood, with the abuse, 19 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:35.159 the anxiety, the adoptions, the losing people. I really thought 20 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:37.760 I'd dealt with that until I had to sit down 21 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:42.200 and write this book. And what really got me was 22 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:46.680 the early part of my childhood having to sit and 23 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:50.480 go through three hundred pages of social work records and 24 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:56.359 write about this little boy's life, my life. It broke me, 25 00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:01.040 and it broke me. Not for me, he me, because 26 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.879 there's still hundreds of thousands of children all over the 27 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:10.120 world who are going through these kind of things daily hunger, 28 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:18.199 you know, living in terrible circumstances, sexual abuse, violence, alcoholism. 29 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.479 So yeah, it really broke me having to sort of 30 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:26.520 go through that, and it made me realize, christ I 31 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:30.759 have come this lovely far and I've made it so 32 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.159 but I'm good. I'm really good. I'm really loving that 33 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:40.000 people are reaching out from different backgrounds from I'm hearing 34 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:43.719 nothing from artists, which is great. I'm hearing a lot 35 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:46.960 from people who were in care, who were in children's homes, 36 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:53.639 and social workers and people who work with alcoholics. My 37 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.439 mother was an alcoholic and a street worker. And it's 38 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:03.639 I'm loving. I'm loving and I'm loving hearing from everyone 39 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:08.159 and people saying, you know, I went through very similar things. 40 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:10.759 You know, that's horrible to hear. But just just to 41 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:15.520 know that you're not alone, is It's nice? 42 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:20.639 Yeah, And I actually I was going to ask you 43 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:23.879 about the process of writing this book because you had 44 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:33.759 to revisit so much pain and uncertainty and darkness in 45 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:38.759 order to tell your story. I mean, what were you 46 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:41.560 doing in terms of self care? Because I hope you 47 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:44.479 you had a support system while you were going through 48 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:46.039 the process of putting this book together. 49 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:55.520 I always say that art is my support system. I 50 00:03:55.800 --> 00:04:01.400 use as a therapy. I always have. But again, writing 51 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:05.599 about those early years caught me off guard and at 52 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:07.840 one point I said, I am going to have to 53 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:12.759 seek some extra help to speak about this while I'm 54 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:16.959 writing the writing this And the crazy thing is here 55 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:23.399 in the UK we are being cut massively and in 56 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:30.160 every aspect the arts are being cut by the government. Doctors, nurses, 57 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:32.399 you can't get seen, you know, you can't get a 58 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:37.920 dental appointment, and the health and the mental health practices 59 00:04:37.959 --> 00:04:43.240 are just overrun and terribly, terribly run as far as 60 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.839 I'm concerned. It took a long time for the appointment 61 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:48.959 to come up, and by that point I was kind 62 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.879 of like, Okay, I've dealt with it already myself, you know, 63 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:59.000 But yeah, it's been really What's what's been really healing 64 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:03.839 is talking about to go out to festivals and talking 65 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:07.120 about it and people asking questions, because what I noticed 66 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:14.120 people do is they tend to ask questions two things 67 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:19.600 they need answers to within themselves. But they'll but they'll 68 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.800 they'll do it through the through the the guys of 69 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:26.199 asking questions about my story if you know, do you 70 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:29.439 know what I mean? But anyway, I just I find 71 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:33.160 that really fascinating. And then yeah, I've just I've met 72 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:39.079 a huge, huge network of people from all different backgrounds 73 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:41.920 that have just come and kind of put their arms 74 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:45.360 around me and gave me a big hug and opened up. 75 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:48.439 And it's it's been fair. I've really loved the process. 76 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:50.920 It's been tough, but I've loved it good. 77 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:54.720 And I definitely hear you about art being a support 78 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:58.480 system because I said many many times, if it were 79 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:05.040 not for the ability to express myself through art, I 80 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:06.399 don't know that I would be here. 81 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:11.160 I say the same thing, Charles, I totally hear you. 82 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:14.800 I hear you, maybe not so much now, but more 83 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:18.959 when I was going through my teenage years and you're 84 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.160 sort of going through that sort of time where you're 85 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:27.560 trying going through puberty and there's all these emotions running view. 86 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:32.399 If I hadn't had the means to express myself, whether 87 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:34.759 it be you know, putting a wig on and my 88 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:37.199 mum's fur coat and climbing out of the bedroom window, 89 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:40.839 which is what I used to do, and not because 90 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:42.800 anybody could see me, because I would do it in 91 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:45.000 the middle of the night and I'd walk around this 92 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:49.800 tiny village in Scotland and it was just that liberating 93 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:55.680 feeling that I'm doing something fabulous and authentically me and 94 00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:59.879 I'm not conforming to my upbringing, which. 95 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:05.399 Was part of the point of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 96 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:07.800 And you were doing it for yourself. You weren't doing 97 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:13.839 it for other people. And sometimes that's the best stuff. 98 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:18.399 When you're not right, you're not worried about the outside eye, 99 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:24.959 the outside opinion. Beautiful. I imagine that your art. If 100 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:27.720 you were to do a side by side comparison of 101 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:31.680 your art then and your art now, there would be 102 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.600 some drastic differences. There would have to be. 103 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:38.279 There are, but there's still a common theme for me. 104 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.600 When I was a little boy, when I was separated 105 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.199 from my mother. To give some context to the listeners, 106 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:51.680 my mother was a street worker and lady of the night, prostitute, 107 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:54.439 however you want to call it, I say, a street 108 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:59.000 worker and she was an addict. She was an alcoholic, 109 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.639 and she had a lot of ment health issues, so 110 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.439 she would leave me and my sisters for long periods 111 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:08.279 of time and go to work and come home drunk. 112 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:14.680 And an incident happened where we lost one of the 113 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:17.279 men that she kind of really attached to, and he 114 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:21.439 was really good for her in many ways, and we 115 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:25.079 both saw him drown when I was a little boy, 116 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:29.519 and it just threw my mum's world upside down and 117 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:33.840 she just wasn't able to mentally cope physically cope. So 118 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.840 my sisters were put into care, and the social services 119 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:43.159 tried to kind of keep me with my mum, and 120 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.240 they really could have done more to support her, but 121 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:48.600 they tried to keep me with her, but they kept 122 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:52.919 separating us and putting me into care. Well, she tried 123 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:55.919 to do rehab anyway. Eventually I was put into this 124 00:08:56.039 --> 00:09:00.720 children's home and my mum, because she was drinking, would 125 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:03.759 stop kind of stopped visiting. She would say she was 126 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.600 going to turn up, and she wouldn't, so I had 127 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:10.600 no photographs. And by this time, the social workers were 128 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:15.000 preparing me to be adopted, and they'd given me a 129 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:18.080 scrap book and they said, Okay, we don't have any 130 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:21.679 photos of your mum, but draw some photo, draw some images. 131 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:25.159 And that's where it all came from for me, because 132 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:29.200 I I kind of I love this woman. She was 133 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.559 very exotic working women. She'd read hair and very high 134 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:36.279 cheek bones and very Asian eyes, and I would just 135 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.720 draw this face with the big spider leg lashes and 136 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:43.919 faces became very important from that moment, and then also 137 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:47.919 when I was adopted, it continued, you know, because it 138 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.559 was the only thing I had to remember my mother's image, 139 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:57.039 So drawing faces became very very important. And then when 140 00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:02.440 I got to school, I remember to teach photographing our 141 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.879 the class and photocopying it. And back in the day, 142 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.840 the old photocopiers had an ink that when it dried, 143 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:14.559 you could scratch it with a knife and you could 144 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:19.320 remove some of the black area. Yeah, so I used 145 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:23.039 to change my face and sometimes sometimes I look like 146 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.080 my mom, and sometimes I just started to play with 147 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:29.440 my face like and then I would build a kind 148 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.600 of decopage and collage around it. So it really started 149 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:35.399 then really really really young. 150 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:42.399 So you were trying to reconstruct your past through the deconstruction. 151 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.360 I was trying to find I was trying to find 152 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:49.799 my identity within this world that i'd been adopted into. 153 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:55.320 My adoptive father was of the Roman Gypsy community and 154 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:59.759 my mother was Catholics. They were very very strict, very close, 155 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:05.639 very private people. So when I asked my parents, you know, 156 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:08.600 why are my eyes like this? You know, why do 157 00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:11.960 I laugh like this? They had no reference and they 158 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:16.440 didn't want to know because, as far as they were concerned, 159 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.639 we adopted you. You're one of us. Now, forget the past, 160 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:24.080 and you know, so it was it was difficult for them. 161 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:28.039 But because they hadn't training this I'm talking in the eighties, 162 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.879 there was no training for people to adopt. It was literally, 163 00:11:32.200 --> 00:11:33.159 here's a child, to. 164 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:35.120 Get on with it, girl, right exactly. 165 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:39.519 You know. So, so yeah, it was I don't know 166 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:40.360 where I was going with that. 167 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:47.279 Well, yeah I did notice that, Yeah, you're your adopted family. 168 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:52.440 It really did feel like they didn't want you to 169 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:58.679 even think about your your past that you know, your 170 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:03.320 life started when they brought you home, that's right, And I. 171 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:06.679 Think that's really unfair to do that for a child. 172 00:12:06.759 --> 00:12:10.639 You know, I'm an adoptive parent myself, Me and my 173 00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:12.399 partner have a little boy. 174 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:13.080 I love that. 175 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:17.759 The amazing thing about now, when you go through the 176 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:22.720 adoption process, you have weeks, months of coursework, months and 177 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:26.399 months with social workers and learning about the developing brain 178 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.600 of a child and what my parents And I love 179 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.080 my parents that the people who adopted me are my 180 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.679 parents as far as I'm concerned, right, But they could 181 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.840 have they could really could have done with the training 182 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:43.600 that they're given now, because I think to hold a 183 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:47.399 child back, which is what I felt happened to me, 184 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:51.759 I think it's just it's detrimental to the child's development. 185 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.240 You have to be you have to you have to 186 00:12:54.320 --> 00:13:02.559 approach adoption with patients. Curiosity, empathy, play, and some of 187 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:04.759 those elements were there, but to be shut down and 188 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:08.879 told let's not speak about that, Let's leave your whole 189 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:13.879 identity to the side, and now be this person. It's 190 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:15.600 it's impossible for a child to. 191 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:20.080 Do that, especially considering at that point in your in 192 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:23.799 your life and your development as a child, your entire 193 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:28.519 being is curiosity and wanting to know and who am 194 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.960 I and why am I? So I can't imagine like 195 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:37.600 stunting that, you know, like trying to to to tamp 196 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:42.000 down the child's natural sense of curiosity and wonder and learning. 197 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:46.120 It's it's really impossible to do and and and it's 198 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:50.639 really what caused the rift between me and especially my 199 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.600 adoptive mother. She just couldn't understand why I just couldn't 200 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:59.000 settle and she didn't have They had no reference to 201 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:02.720 the none who looked after me in the children's home, 202 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:07.000 the man who sexually abused me for weeks on end 203 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:11.759 in a children's home, violently and emotionally. I was told, 204 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:13.759 I was told not to talk, don't talk about it, 205 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:16.679 let's go on with it now. And they had no 206 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.200 reference to my mother, who I'd seen in bed with 207 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.720 men and the hunger, and they had nothing of that, 208 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:27.399 and there was no opportunity to express it, to talk 209 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:27.919 it through. 210 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:35.440 And yeah, that's an interesting point from what I got 211 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:40.240 in the book. It feels like your introduction to the 212 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:48.519 concept of sex and sexuality was warped. It was violent, right. 213 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:51.080 It was violent, and it was really it was it 214 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:56.120 was twisted. I'd already seen. I already knew by the 215 00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:00.559 age of five, what what men and women do, because 216 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:05.120 because I've seen my mother working, she she was she 217 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:09.639 was so incapacitated at times that you know these this 218 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:15.320 this is just the way it was. And but then 219 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.279 when I went into care and and other things were 220 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:21.240 going on, not just with me, with other children who 221 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:26.639 were involved in these instances, it was really confusing, really 222 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:33.440 really confusing. And I don't know. I don't know to 223 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:36.879 this day, I don't know how much my adoptive parents knew. 224 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.240 I don't know if they knew my mother's past. I 225 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:47.080 don't think they did. I think had had they had 226 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:49.919 they known maybe things that maybe they could have got 227 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:53.440 me some therapy early on. And that's and that's why 228 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:58.960 I used self therapy with the art Goodness. 229 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:03.840 I had to thank Goodness for art so and I 230 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:09.000 and I saw how in your teenage years, in your 231 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:14.279 early adulthood, it felt like a lot of your relationships 232 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:20.559 were like transactional, Like how how did all of that 233 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:27.879 affect your adult relationships? If I may ask, I didn't. 234 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:33.279 I doesn't have many adult relationships. I mean, we've all 235 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.720 we've all kind of done stuff. I had a few. 236 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.039 I had a few relationships when I allowed people to 237 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:43.000 walk over me and I got into stupid situations and stuff. 238 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:45.879 I think we all have when we're when we're younger 239 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.960 and I've been so honestly, I've been so sort of 240 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:57.600 laser focused with creating art and photographs in film that 241 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.759 it's kind of over over to call that for a 242 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:05.440 long long time. And I've had a I mean, I've 243 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:08.160 had a couple of relationships. The relationship I mean just 244 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:12.279 now is probably the most like level one. 245 00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:17.559 But yeah, well I do love that for you. Yeah, 246 00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:22.519 I imagine, you know, I mean, we all go through 247 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:28.640 that period of wanting to please others, but you had 248 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:32.400 to go through that for a sense of like stability 249 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:40.680 and survival, especially with your adoptive parents wanting to be 250 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:44.079 the kind of person they wanted you to be, which 251 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.880 meant not being who you were. And I felt like, 252 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:51.759 you know, that was a constant struggle. 253 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:56.920 It was, but I fought so hard against them. 254 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.240 You think you were a difficult child. 255 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:03.480 They would say that. They would say, my father to 256 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.680 this day would say you were such an arsehole to us, 257 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:13.359 and in a joking way, right, But I just I 258 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:17.640 couldn't help it. I had to express myself. I had to, 259 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:19.720 you know, when I was at that age where I 260 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:24.400 understood what was what, I didn't give a ship. I 261 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.200 went out in the village and wore high heels and 262 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:33.400 making these big camp paintings and just being myself. You know, 263 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.200 I wasn't going to conform to working in a scrap 264 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.680 yard and living in a boxing gym, which is what 265 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.640 my dad done. I hated it. It wasn't me, it 266 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:45.440 wasn't my name, it's not my nature. 267 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:48.960 You were so much bigger than the life that you. 268 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.880 I just was. I just have creativity connected to my core, 269 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.200 and in a small village in Scotland, there's no reference 270 00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:00.960 at all for that. So one wonder full thing happened 271 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.759 with satellite TV when that appeared back in the eighties 272 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:08.759 and we suddenly were exposed to like fashion, TV and 273 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.599 TV and all that visual stuff. I mean I just 274 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.880 drunk all in and went with it. So it's almost 275 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:19.680 like an explosion waiting to happen, you know. 276 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:25.599 Okay, favorite supermodel girl, Naomi Campbell. That better have been 277 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:26.119 the answer. 278 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:32.720 Also, mav Pessa, Okay, yes, she's sensational. 279 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.200 I love it, I love it. Yeah, it was a 280 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:37.000 Naomi fan myself. 281 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:40.240 Yeah, stunning, stunning. 282 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:42.839 Every now and again I whip out my name Naomi 283 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:44.559 Campbell walked just because. 284 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:46.519 Hey, why not? 285 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:53.319 You have to exactly you know, I dare say that 286 00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:01.680 your life, as recorded in this book is basically advertisement 287 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:04.839 for it putting and keeping the arts in schools. 288 00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:09.440 Oh my god, I'm so honored that you said that. 289 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:15.359 I would love to get this book into schools and 290 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:19.799 let the teachers read it. Oh, you're right. It's like 291 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:25.960 it's like the schools need the arts, they need it. Listen, 292 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:28.160 what was the first thing that people went to when 293 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:30.720 the pandemic hit music? 294 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:31.279 Yeah? 295 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.920 Art, TV, video visual. 296 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:38.039 Because that was comfort. 297 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:44.119 It is so important. Without art, life just shit. 298 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:50.759 And it's always the first thing to get cut. Yeah, yeah, 299 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.480 as if it's not an essential part of life. 300 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:56.599 I honestly can't remember the last time I had to 301 00:20:56.599 --> 00:21:03.839 do a times table. I mean really well, some of 302 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:06.160 the stuff we got taught at school, and in my 303 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:09.480 mad school was horrific. The teachers were bullies, the assholes, 304 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:12.960 and you know, I had teachers that call me faggot, 305 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:21.160 you know, And it was terrible, really terrible. And I'm 306 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.799 lucky that we had an amazing art department. And I 307 00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:29.880 had one teacher that I just adore. Her name's Norma, 308 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.599 and she's a very good friend of mine still, And 309 00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:37.759 if I hadn't had this woman, in my life. I 310 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:40.519 don't know if I'd be here. Honestly, I really don't 311 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:42.279 know if I'd be here. I was being I was 312 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:46.440 at a period in my childhood thirteen fourteen, fifteen where 313 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:50.519 I was so unhappy and nobody I had, nobody to 314 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:56.240 speak to, nobody who understood how important keytivity was. And 315 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.359 she did and she was that one person, and she 316 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.559 took me and really mothered me in a way that 317 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:10.000 I really needed. And it wasn't it wasn't all about 318 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:13.000 her being an art teacher. It was this sort of 319 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:20.160 patience and curiosity and empathy that came from her. But 320 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:22.960 it was just she is just I love her so much, 321 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.400 and I think we're lucky when we're young and we 322 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:31.200 have that person, and not everyone gets that opportunity to 323 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.319 have that person. If I hadn't had her, I would 324 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:35.799 not be doing what I'm doing today. 325 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:40.519 I believe it. We need someone to see us. 326 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:45.119 She was the first person in all my childhood who 327 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:51.880 allowed me to talk about my adoption. I'm crazy, don't 328 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:55.720 know family members, it was all kept. She was the 329 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:59.559 first person who said, let's explore it in your work. 330 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:05.839 You know how, how how liberating for me to have. 331 00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:12.119 That as a definitely. And so, what what is your 332 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:14.559 favorite medium to work in? 333 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:25.240 I honestly don't have a favorite. I love technology. I'm 334 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:30.079 a really early photoshop person, so I loved I love 335 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:36.720 I love digital, and I yeah, yeah, is going a 336 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.480 bit crazy right now, but some of some of it's extraordinary. 337 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.559 I mean, I can take an old black and white 338 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:47.880 photograph of me and bring it to life and I could. 339 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:51.720 I could literally make a movie from a photograph, and 340 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.839 I love that. I love that it's becoming so accessible. 341 00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:58.920 Some of it's completely ridiculous, but if the tools are 342 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:04.720 used properly, they can they can work. But one thing 343 00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:07.079 I've loved a lot since I've written the book is 344 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:10.480 I've just gone back to painting, just painting with oils, 345 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:13.000 and I'm loving it and loving. 346 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:18.680 That because that's like the most organic and for lack 347 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:20.079 of a better primal. 348 00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:23.559 Yeah, it's the most authentic. It's the most authentic. There's 349 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:28.920 no there's no taking a photograph of a flower outside 350 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:32.039 to then cut it up and paste on something online 351 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:36.079 on the computer. You have to you have to know 352 00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:38.160 what you're doing with paintbrush. 353 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.880 And right because there's no undo button with the paintbrush. 354 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:46.640 There's no one too, So I'm loving I'm loving painting 355 00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:50.480 just now. I have a studio here and it's fantastic 356 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:55.759 space and it's it's a new space for me and 357 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:59.599 it's very high ceilings, so I'm like getting all the 358 00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:02.319 big ca I'm just like playing. 359 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:11.240 I love it. I love it and seeing you come 360 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:17.119 out on the other side as this strong creative person, 361 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.440 it makes me happy and it gives me hope for 362 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:24.880 so many of the other people out there who have 363 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:31.480 trouble passed. And you know, in addition to to visual arts, 364 00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:36.799 you you're an author, what besides besides the book? Like, 365 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.079 is there a plan for a movie of the book? 366 00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:42.599 Yes? 367 00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:43.799 In your head. 368 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.480 I honestly can't say too much because I'm literally dealing 369 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:54.799 with it right now and yeah, but yeah, it's gonna happen. 370 00:25:54.920 --> 00:26:01.720 That's okay. I'm glad the answer is yes. That's exciting, fabulous, fabulous, fabulist. 371 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:06.599 So do you have you mentioned you know, a relationship 372 00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:14.440 with music. Is there a soundtrack that you like to 373 00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:16.039 have going when you're working? 374 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:23.279 Oh my god, everything by Cape Bush. Yeah, literally literally 375 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:29.319 everything by Capish. And I'm a late comer to Cape Bush. 376 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:32.759 I only kind of hurt her. Well, I mean, I 377 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:36.079 knew of her, but I didn't really listen until I 378 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.519 met my partner nine years ago. And now it's like 379 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:43.400 I need Cape bish On to paint. But I also 380 00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:47.079 listen to a lot of percussion. I like Glockenspiel and 381 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:51.079 I like like, I like a lot of percussions. My friend, 382 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:59.079 she's called Dame Evelyn Glenney. She's an incredible percussionist. And 383 00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:04.079 we're going to be doinging Slumboy with Alan Cumming at 384 00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:09.400 his at pitt Lockery Festival Theater in January next year. 385 00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:12.680 So I'm going to be reading parts of Slumboy while 386 00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:17.720 Evelyn does this very haunting percussion. And So I listened 387 00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:20.480 to a lot of a lot of different music. 388 00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:25.839 That's amazing. Yeah, I love it. What was your soundtrack 389 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:27.640 when you were writing? 390 00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:31.119 Okay? So I listened to a lot of Anthony and 391 00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:39.079 the Johnson's just to get the you know, to get 392 00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:43.000 that vibe. Especially in the early years. I listened to 393 00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:49.440 some of Grace's Grace Jones's Hurricane album. She kindly gave 394 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:55.640 me the short quote from I'm Crying Mother's Tears, which 395 00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:59.279 is at the start of the book that song in 396 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:06.559 particular is just everything I feel about that book, because 397 00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:10.480 the song is saying, you know, I'm I'm I'm grown 398 00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:14.680 enough to sort of cry my mother's tears. So it's 399 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.200 kind of saying I'm I'm I'm old enough to understand 400 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.240 what my mother went through, you know. So she yeah. 401 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:25.440