Speaker 1: Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Speaker 1: Barbary Lane. Welcome to a special episode of Full Circle
Speaker 1: the podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Junior, and
Speaker 1: today I am thrilled to be sitting with our guest.
Speaker 1: Juano Diaz is a wonderful author and artist, and his autobiography,
Speaker 1: entitled Slumboy, has been called by The Guardian one of
Speaker 1: the most moving accounts of non fiction ever written, and
Speaker 1: I cannot help but agree. Wano, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm good? Thank you so much, Charles. That's some introduction.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: You definitely deserve it. So the first question that I
Speaker 1: decided I needed to ask you after reading this turbulent,
Speaker 1: tumultuous tale that was alliterated, is how are you doing now?
Speaker 1: Tell me good things about yourself now?
Speaker 2: Yes, I am good. Honestly, I thought as an adult,
Speaker 2: I thought to myself, you know what I've lived with
Speaker 2: my past. I've lived with my childhood, with the abuse,
Speaker 2: the anxiety, the adoptions, the losing people. I really thought
Speaker 2: I'd dealt with that until I had to sit down
Speaker 2: and write this book. And what really got me was
Speaker 2: the early part of my childhood having to sit and
Speaker 2: go through three hundred pages of social work records and
Speaker 2: write about this little boy's life, my life. It broke me,
Speaker 2: and it broke me. Not for me, he me, because
Speaker 2: there's still hundreds of thousands of children all over the
Speaker 2: world who are going through these kind of things daily hunger,
Speaker 2: you know, living in terrible circumstances, sexual abuse, violence, alcoholism.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it really broke me having to sort of
Speaker 2: go through that, and it made me realize, christ I
Speaker 2: have come this lovely far and I've made it so
Speaker 2: but I'm good. I'm really good. I'm really loving that
Speaker 2: people are reaching out from different backgrounds from I'm hearing
Speaker 2: nothing from artists, which is great. I'm hearing a lot
Speaker 2: from people who were in care, who were in children's homes,
Speaker 2: and social workers and people who work with alcoholics. My
Speaker 2: mother was an alcoholic and a street worker. And it's
Speaker 2: I'm loving. I'm loving and I'm loving hearing from everyone
Speaker 2: and people saying, you know, I went through very similar things.
Speaker 2: You know, that's horrible to hear. But just just to
Speaker 2: know that you're not alone, is It's nice?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I actually I was going to ask you
Speaker 1: about the process of writing this book because you had
Speaker 1: to revisit so much pain and uncertainty and darkness in
Speaker 1: order to tell your story. I mean, what were you
Speaker 1: doing in terms of self care? Because I hope you
Speaker 1: you had a support system while you were going through
Speaker 1: the process of putting this book together.
Speaker 2: I always say that art is my support system. I
Speaker 2: use as a therapy. I always have. But again, writing
Speaker 2: about those early years caught me off guard and at
Speaker 2: one point I said, I am going to have to
Speaker 2: seek some extra help to speak about this while I'm
Speaker 2: writing the writing this And the crazy thing is here
Speaker 2: in the UK we are being cut massively and in
Speaker 2: every aspect the arts are being cut by the government. Doctors, nurses,
Speaker 2: you can't get seen, you know, you can't get a
Speaker 2: dental appointment, and the health and the mental health practices
Speaker 2: are just overrun and terribly, terribly run as far as
Speaker 2: I'm concerned. It took a long time for the appointment
Speaker 2: to come up, and by that point I was kind
Speaker 2: of like, Okay, I've dealt with it already myself, you know,
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's been really What's what's been really healing
Speaker 2: is talking about to go out to festivals and talking
Speaker 2: about it and people asking questions, because what I noticed
Speaker 2: people do is they tend to ask questions two things
Speaker 2: they need answers to within themselves. But they'll but they'll
Speaker 2: they'll do it through the through the the guys of
Speaker 2: asking questions about my story if you know, do you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? But anyway, I just I find
Speaker 2: that really fascinating. And then yeah, I've just I've met
Speaker 2: a huge, huge network of people from all different backgrounds
Speaker 2: that have just come and kind of put their arms
Speaker 2: around me and gave me a big hug and opened up.
Speaker 2: And it's it's been fair. I've really loved the process.
Speaker 2: It's been tough, but I've loved it good.
Speaker 1: And I definitely hear you about art being a support
Speaker 1: system because I said many many times, if it were
Speaker 1: not for the ability to express myself through art, I
Speaker 1: don't know that I would be here.
Speaker 2: I say the same thing, Charles, I totally hear you.
Speaker 2: I hear you, maybe not so much now, but more
Speaker 2: when I was going through my teenage years and you're
Speaker 2: sort of going through that sort of time where you're
Speaker 2: trying going through puberty and there's all these emotions running view.
Speaker 2: If I hadn't had the means to express myself, whether
Speaker 2: it be you know, putting a wig on and my
Speaker 2: mum's fur coat and climbing out of the bedroom window,
Speaker 2: which is what I used to do, and not because
Speaker 2: anybody could see me, because I would do it in
Speaker 2: the middle of the night and I'd walk around this
Speaker 2: tiny village in Scotland and it was just that liberating
Speaker 2: feeling that I'm doing something fabulous and authentically me and
Speaker 2: I'm not conforming to my upbringing, which.
Speaker 1: Was part of the point of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And you were doing it for yourself. You weren't doing
Speaker 1: it for other people. And sometimes that's the best stuff.
Speaker 1: When you're not right, you're not worried about the outside eye,
Speaker 1: the outside opinion. Beautiful. I imagine that your art. If
Speaker 1: you were to do a side by side comparison of
Speaker 1: your art then and your art now, there would be
Speaker 1: some drastic differences. There would have to be.
Speaker 2: There are, but there's still a common theme for me.
Speaker 2: When I was a little boy, when I was separated
Speaker 2: from my mother. To give some context to the listeners,
Speaker 2: my mother was a street worker and lady of the night, prostitute,
Speaker 2: however you want to call it, I say, a street
Speaker 2: worker and she was an addict. She was an alcoholic,
Speaker 2: and she had a lot of ment health issues, so
Speaker 2: she would leave me and my sisters for long periods
Speaker 2: of time and go to work and come home drunk.
Speaker 2: And an incident happened where we lost one of the
Speaker 2: men that she kind of really attached to, and he
Speaker 2: was really good for her in many ways, and we
Speaker 2: both saw him drown when I was a little boy,
Speaker 2: and it just threw my mum's world upside down and
Speaker 2: she just wasn't able to mentally cope physically cope. So
Speaker 2: my sisters were put into care, and the social services
Speaker 2: tried to kind of keep me with my mum, and
Speaker 2: they really could have done more to support her, but
Speaker 2: they tried to keep me with her, but they kept
Speaker 2: separating us and putting me into care. Well, she tried
Speaker 2: to do rehab anyway. Eventually I was put into this
Speaker 2: children's home and my mum, because she was drinking, would
Speaker 2: stop kind of stopped visiting. She would say she was
Speaker 2: going to turn up, and she wouldn't, so I had
Speaker 2: no photographs. And by this time, the social workers were
Speaker 2: preparing me to be adopted, and they'd given me a
Speaker 2: scrap book and they said, Okay, we don't have any
Speaker 2: photos of your mum, but draw some photo, draw some images.
Speaker 2: And that's where it all came from for me, because
Speaker 2: I I kind of I love this woman. She was
Speaker 2: very exotic working women. She'd read hair and very high
Speaker 2: cheek bones and very Asian eyes, and I would just
Speaker 2: draw this face with the big spider leg lashes and
Speaker 2: faces became very important from that moment, and then also
Speaker 2: when I was adopted, it continued, you know, because it
Speaker 2: was the only thing I had to remember my mother's image,
Speaker 2: So drawing faces became very very important. And then when
Speaker 2: I got to school, I remember to teach photographing our
Speaker 2: the class and photocopying it. And back in the day,
Speaker 2: the old photocopiers had an ink that when it dried,
Speaker 2: you could scratch it with a knife and you could
Speaker 2: remove some of the black area. Yeah, so I used
Speaker 2: to change my face and sometimes sometimes I look like
Speaker 2: my mom, and sometimes I just started to play with
Speaker 2: my face like and then I would build a kind
Speaker 2: of decopage and collage around it. So it really started
Speaker 2: then really really really young.
Speaker 1: So you were trying to reconstruct your past through the deconstruction.
Speaker 2: I was trying to find I was trying to find
Speaker 2: my identity within this world that i'd been adopted into.
Speaker 2: My adoptive father was of the Roman Gypsy community and
Speaker 2: my mother was Catholics. They were very very strict, very close,
Speaker 2: very private people. So when I asked my parents, you know,
Speaker 2: why are my eyes like this? You know, why do
Speaker 2: I laugh like this? They had no reference and they
Speaker 2: didn't want to know because, as far as they were concerned,
Speaker 2: we adopted you. You're one of us. Now, forget the past,
Speaker 2: and you know, so it was it was difficult for them.
Speaker 2: But because they hadn't training this I'm talking in the eighties,
Speaker 2: there was no training for people to adopt. It was literally,
Speaker 2: here's a child, to.
Speaker 1: Get on with it, girl, right exactly.
Speaker 2: You know. So, so yeah, it was I don't know
Speaker 2: where I was going with that.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah I did notice that, Yeah, you're your adopted family.
Speaker 1: It really did feel like they didn't want you to
Speaker 1: even think about your your past that you know, your
Speaker 1: life started when they brought you home, that's right, And I.
Speaker 2: Think that's really unfair to do that for a child.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm an adoptive parent myself, Me and my
Speaker 2: partner have a little boy.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: The amazing thing about now, when you go through the
Speaker 2: adoption process, you have weeks, months of coursework, months and
Speaker 2: months with social workers and learning about the developing brain
Speaker 2: of a child and what my parents And I love
Speaker 2: my parents that the people who adopted me are my
Speaker 2: parents as far as I'm concerned, right, But they could
Speaker 2: have they could really could have done with the training
Speaker 2: that they're given now, because I think to hold a
Speaker 2: child back, which is what I felt happened to me,
Speaker 2: I think it's just it's detrimental to the child's development.
Speaker 2: You have to be you have to you have to
Speaker 2: approach adoption with patients. Curiosity, empathy, play, and some of
Speaker 2: those elements were there, but to be shut down and
Speaker 2: told let's not speak about that, Let's leave your whole
Speaker 2: identity to the side, and now be this person. It's
Speaker 2: it's impossible for a child to.
Speaker 1: Do that, especially considering at that point in your in
Speaker 1: your life and your development as a child, your entire
Speaker 1: being is curiosity and wanting to know and who am
Speaker 1: I and why am I? So I can't imagine like
Speaker 1: stunting that, you know, like trying to to to tamp
Speaker 1: down the child's natural sense of curiosity and wonder and learning.
Speaker 2: It's it's really impossible to do and and and it's
Speaker 2: really what caused the rift between me and especially my
Speaker 2: adoptive mother. She just couldn't understand why I just couldn't
Speaker 2: settle and she didn't have They had no reference to
Speaker 2: the none who looked after me in the children's home,
Speaker 2: the man who sexually abused me for weeks on end
Speaker 2: in a children's home, violently and emotionally. I was told,
Speaker 2: I was told not to talk, don't talk about it,
Speaker 2: let's go on with it now. And they had no
Speaker 2: reference to my mother, who I'd seen in bed with
Speaker 2: men and the hunger, and they had nothing of that,
Speaker 2: and there was no opportunity to express it, to talk
Speaker 2: it through.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's an interesting point from what I got
Speaker 1: in the book. It feels like your introduction to the
Speaker 1: concept of sex and sexuality was warped. It was violent, right.
Speaker 2: It was violent, and it was really it was it
Speaker 2: was twisted. I'd already seen. I already knew by the
Speaker 2: age of five, what what men and women do, because
Speaker 2: because I've seen my mother working, she she was she
Speaker 2: was so incapacitated at times that you know these this
Speaker 2: this is just the way it was. And but then
Speaker 2: when I went into care and and other things were
Speaker 2: going on, not just with me, with other children who
Speaker 2: were involved in these instances, it was really confusing, really
Speaker 2: really confusing. And I don't know. I don't know to
Speaker 2: this day, I don't know how much my adoptive parents knew.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they knew my mother's past. I
Speaker 2: don't think they did. I think had had they had
Speaker 2: they known maybe things that maybe they could have got
Speaker 2: me some therapy early on. And that's and that's why
Speaker 2: I used self therapy with the art Goodness.
Speaker 1: I had to thank Goodness for art so and I
Speaker 1: and I saw how in your teenage years, in your
Speaker 1: early adulthood, it felt like a lot of your relationships
Speaker 1: were like transactional, Like how how did all of that
Speaker 1: affect your adult relationships? If I may ask, I didn't.
Speaker 2: I doesn't have many adult relationships. I mean, we've all
Speaker 2: we've all kind of done stuff. I had a few.
Speaker 2: I had a few relationships when I allowed people to
Speaker 2: walk over me and I got into stupid situations and stuff.
Speaker 2: I think we all have when we're when we're younger
Speaker 2: and I've been so honestly, I've been so sort of
Speaker 2: laser focused with creating art and photographs in film that
Speaker 2: it's kind of over over to call that for a
Speaker 2: long long time. And I've had a I mean, I've
Speaker 2: had a couple of relationships. The relationship I mean just
Speaker 2: now is probably the most like level one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well I do love that for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I imagine, you know, I mean, we all go through
Speaker 1: that period of wanting to please others, but you had
Speaker 1: to go through that for a sense of like stability
Speaker 1: and survival, especially with your adoptive parents wanting to be
Speaker 1: the kind of person they wanted you to be, which
Speaker 1: meant not being who you were. And I felt like,
Speaker 1: you know, that was a constant struggle.
Speaker 2: It was, but I fought so hard against them.
Speaker 1: You think you were a difficult child.
Speaker 2: They would say that. They would say, my father to
Speaker 2: this day would say you were such an arsehole to us,
Speaker 2: and in a joking way, right, But I just I
Speaker 2: couldn't help it. I had to express myself. I had to,
Speaker 2: you know, when I was at that age where I
Speaker 2: understood what was what, I didn't give a ship. I
Speaker 2: went out in the village and wore high heels and
Speaker 2: making these big camp paintings and just being myself. You know,
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to conform to working in a scrap
Speaker 2: yard and living in a boxing gym, which is what
Speaker 2: my dad done. I hated it. It wasn't me, it
Speaker 2: wasn't my name, it's not my nature.
Speaker 1: You were so much bigger than the life that you.
Speaker 2: I just was. I just have creativity connected to my core,
Speaker 2: and in a small village in Scotland, there's no reference
Speaker 2: at all for that. So one wonder full thing happened
Speaker 2: with satellite TV when that appeared back in the eighties
Speaker 2: and we suddenly were exposed to like fashion, TV and
Speaker 2: TV and all that visual stuff. I mean I just
Speaker 2: drunk all in and went with it. So it's almost
Speaker 2: like an explosion waiting to happen, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, favorite supermodel girl, Naomi Campbell. That better have been
Speaker 1: the answer.
Speaker 2: Also, mav Pessa, Okay, yes, she's sensational.
Speaker 1: I love it, I love it. Yeah, it was a
Speaker 1: Naomi fan myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, stunning, stunning.
Speaker 1: Every now and again I whip out my name Naomi
Speaker 1: Campbell walked just because.
Speaker 2: Hey, why not?
Speaker 1: You have to exactly you know, I dare say that
Speaker 1: your life, as recorded in this book is basically advertisement
Speaker 1: for it putting and keeping the arts in schools.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so honored that you said that.
Speaker 2: I would love to get this book into schools and
Speaker 2: let the teachers read it. Oh, you're right. It's like
Speaker 2: it's like the schools need the arts, they need it. Listen,
Speaker 2: what was the first thing that people went to when
Speaker 2: the pandemic hit music?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Art, TV, video visual.
Speaker 1: Because that was comfort.
Speaker 2: It is so important. Without art, life just shit.
Speaker 1: And it's always the first thing to get cut. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: as if it's not an essential part of life.
Speaker 2: I honestly can't remember the last time I had to
Speaker 2: do a times table. I mean really well, some of
Speaker 2: the stuff we got taught at school, and in my
Speaker 2: mad school was horrific. The teachers were bullies, the assholes,
Speaker 2: and you know, I had teachers that call me faggot,
Speaker 2: you know, And it was terrible, really terrible. And I'm
Speaker 2: lucky that we had an amazing art department. And I
Speaker 2: had one teacher that I just adore. Her name's Norma,
Speaker 2: and she's a very good friend of mine still, And
Speaker 2: if I hadn't had this woman, in my life. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I'd be here. Honestly, I really don't
Speaker 2: know if I'd be here. I was being I was
Speaker 2: at a period in my childhood thirteen fourteen, fifteen where
Speaker 2: I was so unhappy and nobody I had, nobody to
Speaker 2: speak to, nobody who understood how important keytivity was. And
Speaker 2: she did and she was that one person, and she
Speaker 2: took me and really mothered me in a way that
Speaker 2: I really needed. And it wasn't it wasn't all about
Speaker 2: her being an art teacher. It was this sort of
Speaker 2: patience and curiosity and empathy that came from her. But
Speaker 2: it was just she is just I love her so much,
Speaker 2: and I think we're lucky when we're young and we
Speaker 2: have that person, and not everyone gets that opportunity to
Speaker 2: have that person. If I hadn't had her, I would
Speaker 2: not be doing what I'm doing today.
Speaker 1: I believe it. We need someone to see us.
Speaker 2: She was the first person in all my childhood who
Speaker 2: allowed me to talk about my adoption. I'm crazy, don't
Speaker 2: know family members, it was all kept. She was the
Speaker 2: first person who said, let's explore it in your work.
Speaker 2: You know how, how how liberating for me to have.
Speaker 1: That as a definitely. And so, what what is your
Speaker 1: favorite medium to work in?
Speaker 2: I honestly don't have a favorite. I love technology. I'm
Speaker 2: a really early photoshop person, so I loved I love
Speaker 2: I love digital, and I yeah, yeah, is going a
Speaker 2: bit crazy right now, but some of some of it's extraordinary.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can take an old black and white
Speaker 2: photograph of me and bring it to life and I could.
Speaker 2: I could literally make a movie from a photograph, and
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that it's becoming so accessible.
Speaker 2: Some of it's completely ridiculous, but if the tools are
Speaker 2: used properly, they can they can work. But one thing
Speaker 2: I've loved a lot since I've written the book is
Speaker 2: I've just gone back to painting, just painting with oils,
Speaker 2: and I'm loving it and loving.
Speaker 1: That because that's like the most organic and for lack
Speaker 1: of a better primal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the most authentic. It's the most authentic. There's
Speaker 2: no there's no taking a photograph of a flower outside
Speaker 2: to then cut it up and paste on something online
Speaker 2: on the computer. You have to you have to know
Speaker 2: what you're doing with paintbrush.
Speaker 1: And right because there's no undo button with the paintbrush.
Speaker 2: There's no one too, So I'm loving I'm loving painting
Speaker 2: just now. I have a studio here and it's fantastic
Speaker 2: space and it's it's a new space for me and
Speaker 2: it's very high ceilings, so I'm like getting all the
Speaker 2: big ca I'm just like playing.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it and seeing you come
Speaker 1: out on the other side as this strong creative person,
Speaker 1: it makes me happy and it gives me hope for
Speaker 1: so many of the other people out there who have
Speaker 1: trouble passed. And you know, in addition to to visual arts,
Speaker 1: you you're an author, what besides besides the book? Like,
Speaker 1: is there a plan for a movie of the book?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: In your head.
Speaker 2: I honestly can't say too much because I'm literally dealing
Speaker 2: with it right now and yeah, but yeah, it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: That's okay. I'm glad the answer is yes. That's exciting, fabulous, fabulous, fabulist.
Speaker 1: So do you have you mentioned you know, a relationship
Speaker 1: with music. Is there a soundtrack that you like to
Speaker 1: have going when you're working?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, everything by Cape Bush. Yeah, literally literally
Speaker 2: everything by Capish. And I'm a late comer to Cape Bush.
Speaker 2: I only kind of hurt her. Well, I mean, I
Speaker 2: knew of her, but I didn't really listen until I
Speaker 2: met my partner nine years ago. And now it's like
Speaker 2: I need Cape bish On to paint. But I also
Speaker 2: listen to a lot of percussion. I like Glockenspiel and
Speaker 2: I like like, I like a lot of percussions. My friend,
Speaker 2: she's called Dame Evelyn Glenney. She's an incredible percussionist. And
Speaker 2: we're going to be doinging Slumboy with Alan Cumming at
Speaker 2: his at pitt Lockery Festival Theater in January next year.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to be reading parts of Slumboy while
Speaker 2: Evelyn does this very haunting percussion. And So I listened
Speaker 2: to a lot of a lot of different music.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah, I love it. What was your soundtrack
Speaker 1: when you were writing?
Speaker 2: Okay? So I listened to a lot of Anthony and
Speaker 2: the Johnson's just to get the you know, to get
Speaker 2: that vibe. Especially in the early years. I listened to
Speaker 2: some of Grace's Grace Jones's Hurricane album. She kindly gave
Speaker 2: me the short quote from I'm Crying Mother's Tears, which
Speaker 2: is at the start of the book that song in
Speaker 2: particular is just everything I feel about that book, because
Speaker 2: the song is saying, you know, I'm I'm I'm grown
Speaker 2: enough to sort of cry my mother's tears. So it's
Speaker 2: kind of saying I'm I'm I'm old enough to understand
Speaker 2: what my mother went through, you know. So she yeah.
Speaker 2: So when I said, Grace, can I can I use
Speaker 2: this little snippets. I'd love people to just see it
Speaker 2: and then maybe play it and listen to it after
Speaker 2: they've read the book, they'll understand this this record and
Speaker 2: she's like, yes, I love that.
Speaker 1: Look at you, Okay, Alan coming and Grace Jones. That's beautiful.
Speaker 2: I love Alan. He's you know what I feel. I
Speaker 2: feel very protective of them me too, actually, fellow Scott,
Speaker 2: but most importantly, he's a fellow Fawn. It's a fellow.
Speaker 1: True. This is true, and that's one of the things
Speaker 1: we love about him so much.
Speaker 2: He's adorable.
Speaker 1: Really. I love that you mentioned in the book that
Speaker 1: your basically your addiction is art, and that's the healthiest
Speaker 1: addiction I can think of.
Speaker 2: Hey, it could have been so many other things. Exactly
Speaker 2: here we are and yeah, I smoke, that's an addiction.
Speaker 2: But I can't drink. You know, my mother is an alcoholic.
Speaker 2: I'm not into taking drugs. I like to know where
Speaker 2: my friend is right. But yeah, I couldn't live without creativity.
Speaker 2: And I get I get this thing where if I
Speaker 2: have something in my mind, I can't get to the
Speaker 2: studio to work on it. It starts to drive me.
Speaker 2: It starts to like take me right, you know, it
Speaker 2: starts to like I need to I need to get
Speaker 2: it out. I need so if I can't get to
Speaker 2: stud I need to get something to draw it onto.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, I I feel you on that. I definitely do.
Speaker 1: You have a wonderful use of language in the way
Speaker 1: that you you wrote this book? Where did you you
Speaker 1: obviously have a love of words you were Were you
Speaker 1: a voracious reader as well?
Speaker 2: No? Never, I hadn't. I hadn't. I don't think I'd
Speaker 2: read a full book in my life.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: Yes, I came to reading very very late.
Speaker 1: And I mean to understand, I don't.
Speaker 2: I wrote a screenplay actually, and it was based on
Speaker 2: a part of the book you have in front of you, someboy,
Speaker 2: but I kind of I kind of fabricated it in
Speaker 2: made the made the characters not me, So that I
Speaker 2: could hide behind these characters. And I put it to
Speaker 2: Alan coming and he was like, this is fantastic. Let's
Speaker 2: get it made. And we both I was living in
Speaker 2: New York at the time, and we both came back
Speaker 2: to Scotland and I ended up falling in love with
Speaker 2: my partner here and adopting a little boy. And then
Speaker 2: I through the process of trying to rework this piece
Speaker 2: that i'd written, someboy appeared and I was like, let
Speaker 2: me just tell my truth instead of trying to write
Speaker 2: this other thing. And but no, I approach writing very
Speaker 2: much in the same way that I would with painting
Speaker 2: that I find them very very similar. You're just creating
Speaker 2: a visual with words. But I also come from the
Speaker 2: Gypsy culture where we have we speak English, but we
Speaker 2: also my family also speak what's what's known as scott
Speaker 2: Scottish Aroma Can't, which is their own language, and they're big,
Speaker 2: big storytellers as well. So I'm used to hearing story
Speaker 2: and I'm used to hearing narrative, especially from my grandmother,
Speaker 2: and I would hear it in both languages, so I
Speaker 2: would hear it and my family speak Scottish English, but
Speaker 2: we also speak the Scots Roma can't so, I guess
Speaker 2: words and stories are always been a big part of
Speaker 2: my life. Even though I didn't read. I read. I
Speaker 2: would read art books. I would I would look through
Speaker 2: a biography of an artist and look at all the
Speaker 2: the details. But I wouldn't. I'd never sat down and
Speaker 2: read a novel until I finished, until I finished slumboy okay,
Speaker 2: And I only I only picked them up because I
Speaker 2: had to. I started to be introduced to other authors,
Speaker 2: and but it's been fantastic. I've I've opened this whole
Speaker 2: new world to myself. You know.
Speaker 1: I love that and it's of your own creation.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1: That is what one of the warmer moments in in
Speaker 1: the book is when you were introduced to the Romanic culture.
Speaker 1: It felt like to me coming home for you.
Speaker 2: Mm hm.
Speaker 1: Does that sound accurate?
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I mean that's although the culture was very
Speaker 2: hard and very private, and the men had certain expectations
Speaker 2: put up on them to be, you know, real men.
Speaker 2: You go to your box, right, and you go and
Speaker 2: you work in the family scrap yard, which my dad owned.
Speaker 2: And it's a very hard world. And I found the
Speaker 2: softness in the females of the family, particularly my father's mother,
Speaker 2: my granny. I just adored she. She was a clearvoyant women.
Speaker 2: So she would do tarer cars, tea leaves and that's
Speaker 2: how they made their money when they traveled around. My
Speaker 2: family were settled in a property and a house, but
Speaker 2: when they were when my dad was born, he was
Speaker 2: born in a wagon and they traveled around. And that's
Speaker 2: how my granny, my grandmother made money. She what we
Speaker 2: call darking, which is clairvoyance. And and I I she
Speaker 2: loved me like she loved her own people. There was
Speaker 2: no separation. You know. She'd take me and cuddle me
Speaker 2: and tell me stories and singing songs. And then yeah,
Speaker 2: that was that's coming home to any child.
Speaker 1: You know, that's the element that I love. Basically, they
Speaker 1: saw you and just went mine.
Speaker 2: Yes, it really is, and that's that's that's incredible. I
Speaker 2: really owe I owe them a lot because they instilled
Speaker 2: in me a lot of good morals. Something I wanted
Speaker 2: to do with Slumboy was show what these people are
Speaker 2: actually like, because they get a real bad rap, especially
Speaker 2: here in the UK in the media we see traveling
Speaker 2: gypsy people being completely exploited on television. You know, they
Speaker 2: have I think it's my big fat Gypsy Weddings TV show.
Speaker 2: It's awful.
Speaker 1: It's just awful, And that doesn't sound like it would
Speaker 1: be any good at all.
Speaker 2: It's just trash. It's that kind of trash TV where they,
Speaker 2: you know, like when they you know, when they show
Speaker 2: these harder people, you just exploit these poor mentally mentally
Speaker 2: people or challenge people. It's just very similar here in
Speaker 2: UK towards the traveling community. So I just wanted to
Speaker 2: be as honest as I couldn't say that is not
Speaker 2: that is not what I experienced with these people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's hard, and yeah you would expected to have be
Speaker 2: a man's man and be very private and live in
Speaker 2: the gypsy way. But there was also really wonderful culture
Speaker 2: two to be embraced by. So I love it.
Speaker 1: So your queer identity was a very important part of
Speaker 1: the book and of course of your life. Basically, I
Speaker 1: guess tell me about being a spot of color in
Speaker 1: a gray world.
Speaker 2: I mean, what else can I be? You know, we
Speaker 2: are so lucky in so many ways that we don't
Speaker 2: live in other countries where we've been lynched. M m
Speaker 2: yea be lynched even for having a couple of tattoos
Speaker 2: and having fain glasses that you're wearing. You know, we
Speaker 2: would we wouldn't be able to we wouldn't be able
Speaker 2: to breathe.
Speaker 1: And lynched if we're lucky. Oh, you know, just.
Speaker 2: So sad and in so many ways, I feel like
Speaker 2: we're going backwards fast and that frightens me. And I
Speaker 2: think it frightens me more that I have a child
Speaker 2: that I'm raising and I worry about what kind of
Speaker 2: world he's going into. And and when I look back
Speaker 2: at my own childhood, although there's been lots of hard, hardly,
Speaker 2: I feel really lucky, really lucky that we're able to
Speaker 2: be ourself, right. I wouldn't change it for the world.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can imagine being anything else than a
Speaker 2: queer person, right. Indeed, indeed, I love it. I love
Speaker 2: my colors.
Speaker 1: Exactly. And that's the thing that so many people don't understand.
Speaker 1: Like we bring color to the world, we bring magic
Speaker 1: to the world. So much of what makes the beautiful
Speaker 1: tapestry of our society, of our culture, both locally and globally,
Speaker 1: it comes from us. It just does. That's just facts.
Speaker 2: Without us, the world would be a grim gray you know, nilong, right,
Speaker 2: flat you know.
Speaker 1: Place there would be no texture. Everyone's hair would be
Speaker 1: just flat and lifeless, and they wouldn't have a frame
Speaker 1: of reference to want anything better.
Speaker 2: That's true. It's crazy, it's true.
Speaker 1: It is true. And I do love. I love that
Speaker 1: you're a daddy. Now, so what lessons from your own
Speaker 1: upbringing do you think you will choose to pass on
Speaker 1: to your own kid.
Speaker 2: I'm for saying that. I have him actor John Leguizamo
Speaker 2: in my head where he's in drag and he's doing
Speaker 2: one of his characters that he done on stage. I
Speaker 2: think it's a show he done Cold Spicorama.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, And he.
Speaker 2: Says, you hate your own mother until you become her,
Speaker 2: and then you're with the deepest respect. And it's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I used to think, cause you know, my adoptive mother.
Speaker 2: I used to because she was so hard on me.
Speaker 2: Why didn't she just let me have that gum and hm,
Speaker 2: that bubble gum? And why didn't she just let me
Speaker 2: be fabulous? And and then you and then you have
Speaker 2: a child too to raise, and and and you see
Speaker 2: how difficult it is. But the one, the one thing
Speaker 2: I have is that I have the same experience that
Speaker 2: my child had. I'm adopted. He's adopted, so I come
Speaker 2: at it with a really different angle. I can answer
Speaker 2: all those questions that my parents couldn't answer for me,
Speaker 2: which were detrimental, really right, But I love being the
Speaker 2: dad's It's just the best thing. And he's he's so musical,
Speaker 2: and then I just love watching him create. It's wonderful.
Speaker 1: How old is he?
Speaker 2: He's nine?
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that age. I taught kids for twenty years,
Speaker 1: so like, I know what nine looks like.
Speaker 2: Well, he came into a life when he was four,
Speaker 2: and you know it's not you know, it's not a
Speaker 2: my story to tell, but he came from a really
Speaker 2: difficult start also, and it's just I'm so proud of
Speaker 2: the little man he is becoming.
Speaker 1: And the thing about four year old, there's still that's
Speaker 1: the age, like there's still not afraid to love like openly.
Speaker 1: So the so if the fact that you got him
Speaker 1: at that point and move forward with a loving, nurturing
Speaker 1: environment is perfection.
Speaker 2: Yes, but it's one of the amazing one of the
Speaker 2: amazing things I learned when I was going through the
Speaker 2: adoption process and doing all the course work with psychologists
Speaker 2: and all these doctors is that you learn a lot
Speaker 2: about the developing brain of a child. And when a
Speaker 2: child goes through things that we went I went through.
Speaker 2: My children went through starvation and abuse and neglect, they
Speaker 2: damage the brain. They physically damaged the brain, so the
Speaker 2: child does have an amount of a stump and learning
Speaker 2: almost And what's incredible is that love, the love of aarent,
Speaker 2: rebuilds and refires the neurons in the brain and heals
Speaker 2: the brain. It's just, I mean, I gets saying it.
Speaker 2: That for me is to hear that. When I heard that,
Speaker 2: it was so it was so grindbreaking because it put
Speaker 2: everything into context for why I behaved the way I
Speaker 2: did as a child, why my parents chose the decisions,
Speaker 2: and the way they wanted to pay me because they
Speaker 2: paid they loved me, you know, they showed me love,
Speaker 2: physical love, but it was tough love, but it was
Speaker 2: still secure love. And then, yeah, I just I make
Speaker 2: sure my child does plenty of the good stuff.
Speaker 1: I love that. And you get to heal certain parts
Speaker 1: of yourself through loving him.
Speaker 2: Yes, he has healed me more than anything has healed me,
Speaker 2: having this, having this experience.
Speaker 1: I love that for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really do.
Speaker 1: So your story is why that everyone needs to read.
Speaker 1: It is not an easy story, but in the end
Speaker 1: there is definitely a ray of hope and it gives
Speaker 1: us different ideas of what home is, of what love
Speaker 1: looks like. And I think it's a very valuable book.
Speaker 1: So I definitely recommend everyone within the sound of our
Speaker 1: voice to pick up a copy of Slumboy. Where would
Speaker 1: you immediately point people to purchase your book? Where should
Speaker 1: we go?
Speaker 2: You know what? In the USA, It's come out in February.
Speaker 2: I'm not even quite sure where you can get it there.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure in most bookshops you should be able
Speaker 2: to get it, okay, But feeling that we have a
Speaker 2: backup plan. If you go to my social media, if
Speaker 2: you put my name in one ideas, you'll find me
Speaker 2: on most social media. And I have linked you know,
Speaker 2: there's link trees. Yes, yes, when it gives you all
Speaker 2: the Amazon sell it, Barnes and Nobles have it, you know,
Speaker 2: most places that have books have it. But it's out
Speaker 2: on audiobook. Also, I really I narrate.
Speaker 1: It, do you?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Oh? Now I have to get it twice.
Speaker 3: Okay, So some people, some people you know, bought the
Speaker 3: hardback when it first come out, and then they and
Speaker 3: then they listened to it and they said, it's completely different,
Speaker 3: completely different story.
Speaker 1: What I can imagine because you know the inflections, you
Speaker 1: know where where to put the brush strokes, as it were. Yes,
Speaker 1: I always prefer to listen to the author narrate their
Speaker 1: own work.
Speaker 2: I do, I really do. I love. I love an
Speaker 2: audiobook now I do, and yeah, and I love. I
Speaker 2: think it's important. And one thing about my book is
Speaker 2: it doesn't read like a memoir. I think it reads
Speaker 2: like an Also it does.
Speaker 1: There were a couple of times where I had to
Speaker 1: stop and go back and make sure that it wasn't
Speaker 1: an actual nonfiction work. Yes, so that's a testament to
Speaker 1: your writing skill. So the best place to reach you
Speaker 1: is via social media if you wanted to learn more
Speaker 1: about you, yep, okay, fabulous, And I will make sure
Speaker 1: to put all of that information in the notes of
Speaker 1: this episode. Uh why oh, Diaz. This has been a
Speaker 1: delightful conversation. I am so glad to have met you,
Speaker 1: and I have a feeling that this is not the
Speaker 1: last time we will speak together. No, because I'll be
Speaker 1: in the States by the end of the years. Fabulous
Speaker 1: in New York. So okay, you should. It sounds good
Speaker 1: to me, and you know, I want to catch up
Speaker 1: on all the the new successes that are going to
Speaker 1: be coming your way because I know that there will be.
Speaker 2: Of course, I can't stop.
Speaker 1: Why why would you.
Speaker 2: Shift idea?
Speaker 1: Onward and upward?
Speaker 2: Baby?
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you, you have a wonderful day.
Speaker 2: Yes, lots a lot.
Speaker 1: Bye. Full Circle is a Never Skurred Productions podcast hosted
Speaker 1: by Charles Tyson Jr. And Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited
Speaker 1: by Never Scured Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Jr. And
Speaker 1: Martha Madrigal. Our theme in music is by the jingle Berries.
Speaker 1: All names, pictures, music, audio, and video clips are registered
Speaker 1: trademarks and or copyrights of their respective copyright holders.