WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:03.680 Oh hey, it's your younger stepbrother who somehow is old 2 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:06.599 enough to have a sleeve tattoo, and you don't even 3 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:09.640 know when that happened. Ali Ward back with ology is 4 00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:12.960 another ology you never knew about, probably with a charming 5 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:17.679 person you wish you knew earlier. Trust me, So shell's 6 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:22.519 hard stuff, living chemistry. This episode was almost called conchology, 7 00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:25.280 but it's about so much more, as it turns out, 8 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.480 than just some swirly seashells. And this guest's Instagram handle 9 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:33.840 is biomineralogists, So when that happens, you go with biomineralogy. 10 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:37.640 So concology or shell collecting, that's going to wait for 11 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:44.200 another time. Another person also biomineralogy technically an allergy, and 12 00:00:44.359 --> 00:00:47.039 I'm not accepting any emails about it. It is what 13 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:50.520 it is. So this ologist got his bachelor's in chemistry 14 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:54.079 from Virginia Tech and is now completing his PhD at 15 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:59.320 UCLA studying geochemistry. And we met one fateful summer, the 16 00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:02.960 one before COVID, at a backyard barbecue at none other 17 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:07.760 than Raquel Nuno, your favorite moon expert and selenologists house, 18 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:11.680 And this guest told me just offhand that he studied shells, 19 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:14.120 and I was like, mark my words, I'm good to 20 00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:17.280 drag you Onologies, my new friend. So being at a 21 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:19.359 barbecue and finding out that the person eating a veggie 22 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:23.200 burger next to you studies the microscopic properties of shell 23 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:25.640 structure to figure out what's going on with the upending 24 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:28.959 apocalypse is what this show is all about. But before 25 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:31.359 we dive into this episode, thank you patrons for supporting 26 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:35.040 the show. I am doing my first ever live show 27 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:39.480 for everyone, not just patrons, on May eighteenth, next week, 28 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:41.519 and tickets are on sale. They're at the link in 29 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:45.079 the show notes. They're twelve bucks general or nine dollars 30 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:49.400 for patrons who can submit questions for returning a volcanologist 31 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:52.920 Jess Phoenix. She's back and we'll hear her reaction to 32 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:55.719 her episode again link in the show notes. Also, thank 33 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.280 you for leaving reviews, and to prove I read yours, 34 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:01.599 here's a brand new one from fourteen sixteen eighteen, who 35 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.400 wrote Ologies has changed my life. Seriously, Dear Allie, I 36 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.000 hope you read my review out loud. Just one request, 37 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:11.039 can you explain the pod dad joke? Thanks and love 38 00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:14.000 from a new listener and patron, A mama from Boston, Okay, 39 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:17.759 Rose fourteen sixty eighteen. We've got a lot of puns. 40 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:21.400 There's a lot of well meaning life advice and just 41 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:24.319 a big dad vibe. So that's all. That's all it is, 42 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.120 pod Dad. So thank you for the review, kiddo, and 43 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:33.280 welcome all right. Biomeneralogy from words meaning alive or biomineralogy 44 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.800 is the study of biominerals, which are inorganic elements such 45 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:40.919 as calcium, ironed, potassium, sodium, or zinc. And they're essential 46 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:43.800 to the nutrition of humans and plants and animals and critters. 47 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:47.800 So this ologist again getting his PhD UCLA while writing 48 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.599 a book called The Hard Parts of Life, about bones 49 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:55.080 and teeth and shells and reefs, and we reunited to 50 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:59.960 chat all about those things, plus the brickwork of iridescent shells, 51 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:06.680 the ocean's tiny pieces of a live artwork, shells versus exoskeletons, 52 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:12.240 lobster lifespans, animals that glue other dead animal skeletons to 53 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:19.479 their own skeletons, snail drama, fiddle, leaf care, fashion versus function, spiraling, 54 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:27.719 and more with advocate scholar, total sweetie, geochemist, writer and biomineralogist, 55 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:31.280 The soon to be doctor rob Ulrich. 56 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:54.599 Rob Ulrich they or he pronouns. 57 00:03:53.719 --> 00:04:01.360 Cool and you are a biomineralogist or a conchologist? Are concologists? 58 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:02.000 Tell me? 59 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.439 Yeah, I would say either of those. I feel like 60 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:12.360 concologists is probably more accurate to what I am now, 61 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:14.639 but I feel like my goal is to branch out 62 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:17.279 to be more general biomeneralogists. 63 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:20.879 I'd never heard biomineralogists until I met you at a 64 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:25.639 summer pool party seasons and seasons ago. I know, I've 65 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:30.040 been so excited about this for so long. Okay, so 66 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.199 tell me a little bit about you. Did you grow 67 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:37.199 up seaside where you landlocked in Nebraska? How did you 68 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:39.879 end up studying things by the sea? And does it 69 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:42.319 didn't even involve things by the sea. Are there inland 70 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:44.600 things as well that are biomeneralogy related? 71 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:49.720 Yeah? So, biominerals are any minerals that are formed by 72 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:53.240 living things, so that includes like our bones, or there 73 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:56.000 are even little biominerals inside of the leaves of a 74 00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:59.199 lot of species of plants that act as essentially disco 75 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:02.000 balls that help like scatter light more efficiently throughout the leaves, 76 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:06.680 which is really cool. Yeah, but no, Unfortunately, I did 77 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:08.720 not grow up by the Beach. I grew up in 78 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:10.959 northern Virginia kind of just like in the middle of 79 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.079 the woods. And I feel like I never really had 80 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:15.480 the goal of ending up where I am. I think 81 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:18.600 it just kind of happened, and I feel like I 82 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:22.160 owe a lot of my direction into earth science or 83 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:25.759 geosciences in general, just to add a crush on a boy. 84 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:26.759 So I followed him. 85 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:31.399 Did you follow him to Los Angeles? No? 86 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.399 Oh, my goodness. I was probably still in denial that 87 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:36.920 I was gay at this point, and I was just like, 88 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:42.160 he's just a really good friend, and so I was like, yeah, 89 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:44.319 I totally want to try to go to the same college. 90 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:46.720 And so we both ended up at Virginia Tech. And 91 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:50.839 initially I was in chemical engineering, but then I realized 92 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:53.720 that wasn't what I wanted to do because chemical engineering 93 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.120 is a lot more application and process based and like 94 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:58.480 trying to make processes more efficient. And I found that 95 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:00.839 I was a lot more fascinated with as science, where 96 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:02.920 it's like trying to figure things out, how do things work? 97 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:07.680 So I switched from chemical engineering to just chemistry. But 98 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:09.920 I was still in this mindset because my parents wanted 99 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:11.480 me like wanted to make sure that I got a 100 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.120 good job coming out of college, right, and so I 101 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:16.519 was still trying to stay on this path to go 102 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:20.000 into the energy sector, going to like petroleum and oil 103 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:20.680 and energy. 104 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:26.240 Rob asked some mentors how to pivot from the petroleum 105 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:29.720 industry and chemical engineering, and many folks suggested that he 106 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:33.120 try out the geosciences and geology, which was a great 107 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:37.279 fit and also romantically convenient because it turns out he 108 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:39.639 was focusing on chemistry. 109 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:42.600 Indeed, and that also happened to be what the boy 110 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:43.480 was majoring in. 111 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:45.600 Did you guys ever go together? 112 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:49.920 No? He was? He not was he is is straight. 113 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:52.560 I had just considered him a really good friend, he 114 00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:55.000 considered me a really good friend. And then in my 115 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.399 second semester of college, I had finally had a chance 116 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:01.120 to like explore things like on my own, and then 117 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:03.560 I was like, oh, yeah, I am gay. 118 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:10.120 Cut to now. Rob is out of the closet, thriving, 119 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.560 and after moving to la for grad school and looking 120 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:17.040 for community, he founded Queer and trans in STEM to 121 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:23.240 bring together LGBTQIA plus and other intersecting identities into science, technology, engineering, 122 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:25.720 and math, and the group meets on Mondays at nine 123 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:30.120 to ten pm Pacific through Zoom, because otherwise, he says, it's. 124 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:33.639 Like it's really hard to make friends, and so like 125 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:35.160 I was trying to go really out of my way. 126 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:38.160 I was driving to West Hollywood like every weekend and 127 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:41.079 join the gay Kickball League because it wasn't at least 128 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:43.040 like in my department, there weren't a lot of people 129 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.120 that I knew were like queer gay I was. I 130 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.560 was thinking about it, and I was like, I shouldn't 131 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:51.000 have to drive all away, halfway across town just to 132 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:53.879 meet queer people when I moved to Los Angeles. 133 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.800 Right, that's the most you know you're an Angelina When 134 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:59.639 you're like I should not have to go from Westwood 135 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:04.800 to West Hollywood at four pm. You're true Angelina. 136 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.000 It shouldn't even be a problem. It's only like what 137 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:08.319 four miles. 138 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.560 Three hours distance? 139 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:12.519 Yeah, exactly. 140 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:14.160 So you were like, screw this. 141 00:08:14.279 --> 00:08:15.879 I was like, screw this. I went to one of 142 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:20.399 the events that is held by the UCLA LGBTQ Resource Center, 143 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:23.800 walked in there and then I was like, there's nothing 144 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:26.720 here for a queer trans people in science and engineering, 145 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:29.680 and I kind of like stormed out of there. Really frustrated, 146 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:33.080 and so then I just reached out to the director 147 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.039 and I was like, Hey, I'm really interested in like 148 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:37.279 forming this. How do I go about doing this? I 149 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.000 don't really know how to do anything around here yet, 150 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.480 I like just moved here. And they were like, oh, yeah, 151 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:43.639 actually there are a few people who bounced this idea around. 152 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:47.120 Let me connect you and so born somewhat out of 153 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:51.000 just like me, needing and wanting friends, we all got 154 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:52.840 together and sort of built this together. 155 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:56.039 Oh that's amazing. And just think of how many people 156 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:59.679 are now not having to battle traffic. 157 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:05.120 To play kickball exactly. We can all just like play 158 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:07.000 video games online. 159 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:11.399 And what about getting into biomineralogy? Did you want to 160 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:16.039 enter into it kind of through geosciences or through human 161 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:18.000 bones or what was it that really hooked you. 162 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:21.159 I feel like I was trying to stay away from 163 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:23.720 it at first because I feel like when I was 164 00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:27.000 in chemistry, I was always really fascinated by like crystals 165 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:29.799 and like crystal growth in itself. And then when I 166 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:34.559 was looking around for research opportunities, I ended up working 167 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:39.440 for my faculty advisor eventually, and I was working with 168 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:43.399 her PhD student at the time, Sebastian Mergelsburg, and the 169 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:45.960 first project that they had me working on or helping 170 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:47.879 out with was this project on lobsters. I was like, 171 00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:50.879 I don't know any biology. I still haven't taken a 172 00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:53.240 biology class since the freshman year of high school, and 173 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.039 so I was just like, this is super out of 174 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:58.720 my element. But that was my first introduction to it, 175 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:02.240 and I realized that are cool, but living things making 176 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:03.840 their own crystals is even cooler. 177 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:09.600 And do lobsters just keep molting and growing and molting 178 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.759 and growing? Is that why they were studying them? 179 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:15.759 Yes, yeah, they were trying to figure out whether or 180 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:20.080 not the chemical composition of the lobster shell is like 181 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:23.519 the same throughout the entire shell, or if it changes 182 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:26.240 at different points of the lobster. We found that yes, 183 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:29.039 it does change across the lobster, with the clause actually 184 00:10:29.080 --> 00:10:32.080 being more enriched in some certain elements compared to other 185 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:35.440 parts of the lobster. And we drew connections from the 186 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:40.440 differences in the chemical composition to the function of each 187 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:42.879 part of the lobster. The shells have to be harder, 188 00:10:42.919 --> 00:10:45.679 so they're like more enriched in these certain elements. At 189 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:47.399 the tail it needs to be more flexible, so it's 190 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:49.000 more enriched in these different elements. 191 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:54.000 Oh Wease see various papers, including the twenty nineteen Frontiers 192 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:58.120 in Earth Science publication Composition systematics in the exoskeleton of 193 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:02.639 the American Lobster and implications for Malicostraca malachostraka side note 194 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:06.559 refers to the forty thousand or so Shelley Boys, including 195 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:09.759 crabs and lobsters and shrimp and wood lice and many 196 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:14.200 other beautiful and bizarre little beasts with exoskeletons. But this 197 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:18.440 lobster paper Rob worked on found that magnesium, phosphorus, and 198 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:23.799 calcium concentrations in lobster exoskeletons are not uniform. There are 199 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:28.279 different shell compositions for the pinchy parts versus the flexi butts. 200 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:33.399 And what exactly would you say as a biomeneralogist, what 201 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.799 would you say the field mostly involves. Are there biomenrologists 202 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:41.279 that study totally different animals and structures And how does 203 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:42.480 one even get into that field? 204 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:44.960 I feel like it's a really small field, at least 205 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:48.360 my exposure to it. There's a handful of people that 206 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.519 study things that live in the oceans and create like 207 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:54.519 calcium carbonate shells. And then there are medical fields where 208 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:59.399 they're trying to mimic biology, for like bone regeneration, tissue regeneration. 209 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:01.840 Remember when I was researching for one of my fellowship 210 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:05.320 application proposals, I kept coming across a lot of papers 211 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:08.240 by like dentists looking out healing teeth, and I was like, Oh, 212 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:09.759 this is a this is really cool. 213 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:12.879 One of the more compelling ones I found was titled 214 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:17.559 quote calcium silicate coating derived from Portland cement as a 215 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:22.159 treatment for hypersensitive denteen. Now Portland cement, you ask, is 216 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:26.600 it locally harvested organic concrete? No, ma'am. It's a fine 217 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.799 powder made by baking limestone and clay stuff and then 218 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:34.919 adding gypsum. And it's so much worse for the environment 219 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:40.559 than I realized previously. But apparently in dento nanotechnology circles 220 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.559 they're using derivatives to strengthen teeth. I don't know, I 221 00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:46.879 don't know what it's all about, but yes, we're gonna 222 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:51.960 need an Odentology episode about teeth like yesterday. Also, nathology 223 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:55.320 starts with a G is the study of chewing. So sorry, 224 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:58.600 I'm never stopping this podcast. It can't tell me a 225 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:00.720 little bit about your what your work is like. Are 226 00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:03.120 you like scraping shells with an exact do knife and 227 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:07.039 tossing him in a spectrometry contraption? What's a day in 228 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:07.960 the life like for you? 229 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:10.919 Yeah, most of my lab work so far has been 230 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:15.279 taking powders of shells, so like someone else has thankfully 231 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:19.440 already cultured a lot of the samples that I'm working 232 00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:22.399 with right now, and they've already been scraped off and 233 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.600 or I guess they use a drill. They drilled off 234 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:26.320 and like then put into vials for me, and then 235 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:27.720 I just need to like weigh them out and like 236 00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:30.279 prepare them to be put into the mass spectrometer or 237 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:32.720 like whatever other technique we're using to analyze it. But 238 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:36.320 more recently, for a newer projects that I'm working on, 239 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:39.720 I seem to be moving towards working with algae and 240 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:42.879 specifically like coco lithophords, which are like these tiny little 241 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:46.679 things that make these beautiful like calcium carbonate plates. They're 242 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:48.559 really gorgeous. If no one's ever seen one. 243 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.080 Oh side note, I have seen one because I had 244 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:54.039 to google it. And first off, coco lilephores are these 245 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.720 musically named single celled phytoplankton that live in the upper 246 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:03.120 layers of the sea, and they're so cool. They make 247 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:06.320 themselves a little house out of what looks like a 248 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:11.120 bunch of starched lacy doilies or paper plates layered over 249 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:14.519 a beach ball, These round things with scales all over them, 250 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.600 and at their largest they are the size of the 251 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:20.559 width of a strand of hair. And then when they 252 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:25.960 multiply or dye their shed scales are helpful for sequestering 253 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:29.879 carbon and it builds up to one point four billion 254 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:33.879 kilos of calcite in the ocean every year. And you're like, calcite, 255 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:36.480 what's that, dad, Well, it's a great question that I 256 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:39.200 asked Google for us. So, calcite is a form of 257 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:43.840 calcium carbonate, and carbonate is a carbon and three oxygens. 258 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.519 Now it's the same stuff that's in eggshells and pearls 259 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:51.279 and seashells. But there are different types of calcium carbonate. 260 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:55.440 Calcite is calcium carbonate that's in a really stable structure. 261 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:59.240 But there's another form called ragonite, which has a different 262 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:04.120 crystal lattice shape from a molecular standpoint, And calcium carbonate 263 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:07.000 is also a supplement for bone health, and is in 264 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.799 the thumbs that you chew on when you're burping up 265 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:12.960 chili dogs and you need an ant acid because carbonates 266 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:17.240 are pretty strong basis. Now, this information will prove useful 267 00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:20.120 later in the episode, do trust, But yes, very cool 268 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:24.639 chemistry happening to make strong shells out of thin air 269 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:27.039 and water and other minerals. 270 00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:31.240 And so I maintain our cultures by just going into 271 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.440 the lab, feeding them every once in a while, by 272 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:36.480 putting them in some new seawater media, and then yeah, 273 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:39.080 doing some experiments with that. Also have another project that 274 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:41.879 I'm really excited about where we're hopefully going to be 275 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:44.200 planting like different types of fiddle leaf trees. So maybe 276 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:46.159 I'll be able to get to work in a greenhouse soon. 277 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.440 Ooh, and fiddle leaf trees those are the ones that 278 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:55.840 people have in their house. But they kill a lot, right, Yes, Okay, 279 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.200 I can't believe I get to actually ask someone about this, 280 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:01.519 But why are they hard to keep alive? Because I 281 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:05.919 see them in beautiful Instagram interior design photos, and I say, 282 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:07.639 how long will it take me to kill them? 283 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.159 I feel like people maybe probably overwater them, or like 284 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.279 I feel like it's either they pay too much attention 285 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.919 to it or they pay too little attention to it. 286 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:20.519 But unfortunately, I'm not too much of a plant scientist. 287 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.919 I just am able to keep plants alive somehow. I 288 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:26.320 always just tell people to stick your finger in the 289 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:28.840 dirt and if it's dry, it probably needs to be watered. 290 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:34.679 It's very scientific talktor side note, I tried to look 291 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:37.279 up some fiddle leaf tips because I knew some of 292 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:39.600 you out there are struggling, and apparently they like a 293 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:42.120 lot of bright indirect light. And you should dust the 294 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:44.960 leaves often. And yes, stick your little finger in the 295 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.720 dirt and water it if it's dry. That's what you do, 296 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.480 says a scientist. Also, Costco was selling these otherwise pretty 297 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:54.720 pricey plants for like twenty bucks recently, in case you 298 00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:57.960 need to replace one you've killed while your roommate's been away. 299 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.480 Secrets safe with me. And okay, now, when it comes 300 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:05.880 to shells, let's say you're dealing with shells in the lab. 301 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:09.640 Are they really different across different animals? Are a lot 302 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:13.240 of them like calcium carbonate. Others are like calcium silicate. 303 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:15.200 I am making up words because I don't know what 304 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:15.640 they're made. 305 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:19.839 Of Yeah, the most predominant biomineral is are made up 306 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:23.079 of calcium carbonate, and then I would say maybe the 307 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:26.359 second most common are calcium phosphate, which would be like 308 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:30.559 bones and like teeth, and then maybe the third would 309 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.240 be silicate minerals. And then at the end that you 310 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.599 probably have the more complicated ones. They have iron in 311 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:38.319 them though, and they're like made by bacteria. 312 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:43.039 Ooh, and when it comes to shells, this is a 313 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:49.160 very basic question, But I don't understand how something that's 314 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:53.720 like a slimy, little flaccid little tongue is making something 315 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:57.119 that's harder than my bones. Maybe what where is it 316 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.960 coming from? Where they getting this calcium, Where are the 317 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:03.519 secreting it? How are these shells even made? 318 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.400 Yeah, so eye valves they secrete their shells from this 319 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:10.759 organ they have called the mantle. And so the organ 320 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.640 it's like lined with these epithelial cells that are what 321 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.200 secrete the mineral that eventually becomes the shell. But what 322 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:20.640 it has to do is it has to take all 323 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:24.400 of the parts that it needs from the seawater first, 324 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.359 and so through some process of essentially like absorption, it's 325 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:32.720 pulling little tiny pockets of seawater into itself, and as 326 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.519 that pocket is traveling through the organ, different enzymes and 327 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.279 transporters are changing the chemistry of the water in that 328 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:44.160 pocket to make it favorable for it to form like 329 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:44.720 a mineral. 330 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.559 Rob says that crystalline structures form out of these minerals 331 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.920 plus a mix of some acidic proteins from the animal 332 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:57.720 to make these biomineral structures of varying hardness and uses that. 333 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:01.200 Da and then it turns into like its final form. 334 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:03.960 And is it hard as soon as it comes out? 335 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:05.839 Or is it like plaster of Paris? And how can 336 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:09.920 something that's in the seed dry? I don't get any 337 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:11.960 of it so exciting. 338 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:16.200 I wouldn't say it's necessarily hard, because what they're finding 339 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:19.799 more and more evidence for is like this intermediate mineral 340 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:23.279 phase called a morphous calcium carbonate. It's sort of counterintuitive 341 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.839 because you don't think of minerals as being amorphous because 342 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:28.880 one of the definitions of the minerals that has a 343 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:32.400 crystalline structure, it's this like a morphous mineral that seems 344 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:36.960 to be what gets deposited and then that's what eventually transforms. 345 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.359 It seems like it doesn't want the water like as 346 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:44.359 a part of it. And so when it is released 347 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:48.680 from the pocket that was keeping it stable, it sort 348 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.079 of dehydrates and then like pushes the water out because it 349 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:53.319 wants to be it wants to be this more stable 350 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:54.519 form of the mineral. 351 00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:59.000 Okay, So spirals is that a common thing with a 352 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.039 lot of shells? Why are some like two little clappy 353 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.480 plates like a clam or a muscle, and others are 354 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:09.640 like this incredible beautiful Fibonacci spiral. 355 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.160 Yeah, So the shape has to do a lot with 356 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.359 the function of it, and so things like the notylloids 357 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:20.440 and stuff, they have this spiral shape that within it 358 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.359 has these different chambers that allow it to change the 359 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:25.720 animal's buoyancy so it can move up and down the 360 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:29.119 water column. And then the different like bivalves, like the 361 00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:32.039 different clams and muscles and oysters. Their shape is very 362 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.079 determined by how do they live. Do they live like 363 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:36.839 attached to a rock, do they live on the like 364 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.200 the sediment, the surface of the sediment, do they live 365 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.400 buried under the sediment? How buried are they like partially 366 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.119 or like fully? And then I think for the spiral, 367 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.200 the other spirally shapes, for like snails, and other things 368 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:53.359 like that. I think it's mainly for like protection as 369 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:56.759 well as like their sexual organs are the same shape 370 00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:58.160 and so they need it like that. 371 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:02.160 Oh so when you're looking at a spiral, you're looking 372 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:08.640 maybe at their bathing suit area's shape exact. 373 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:13.519 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, And most of the gastropod they're chiral, 374 00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:16.000 so they all swirl in like this clockwise pattern because 375 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.880 it matches the shape of their reproductive organs. That's why 376 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.279 they can only mate with things of the same handedness 377 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:24.519 or the same rotation. And that's why the sad like 378 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:29.160 Jeremy the snail of the left handed snails, they can't reproduce, and. 379 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:31.799 So that is part of just sexual selection where they 380 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.799 tend to be like okay, well couldn't couldn't find anyone, 381 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:38.920 So I guess I'm just out out of the game. 382 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:40.160 Is that how that goes? 383 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:43.240 Yeah, it's really sad, and it's like surprising how recent, 384 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:47.279 how new this research is that actually identified the gene 385 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:50.079 that controls it. It came out like last year where 386 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:53.559 they actually identified the gene and they noticed that like, oh, 387 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:57.720 things that lack this gene are the ones that's like 388 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:01.640 spiral counterclockwise so it's just mutation and it's sad. 389 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:06.319 Oh, Jeremy, I looked it up, and this left hand 390 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:10.880 or sinisterrel snail could not get it on with any 391 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:15.319 other snail unless it too was a beautiful backwards mutant. 392 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.640 And in a tribute to horny souls everywhere the world 393 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:23.200 found him two other lefty snails to fall in love with. 394 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.400 All three were put in a love nest enclosure, and 395 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.359 that two others mated with each other and made tons 396 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:34.240 of babies. Well, Jeremy watched from the sidelines before he 397 00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:38.440 died in twenty seventeen. But don't cry yet. Researchers realized 398 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.559 that he did mate before his demise. He produced fifty 399 00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:46.119 six babies, all of them righty's who have a better 400 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.599 chance at love and making more snail babies. Okay, you 401 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:52.839