WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.520 I find the topic of the pardon power of the 2 00:00:03.560 --> 00:00:07.320 presidency and the way Biden has wielded it sort of 3 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:11.960 endlessly fascinating. The bizarre ways in which he's handled it, 4 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.640 the bizarre justifications for his pardon, his most significant pardon 5 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:22.359 obviously being of his son Hunter, the claimed rationale, the 6 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:26.839 actual things that he seems to be aiming at. On Monday, 7 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:34.640 the President announced that he was commuting the death penalty 8 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:41.640 sentence for almost all of the federal death row prisoners. 9 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:45.159 Now I've discussed this on the show. I discussed the 10 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:55.000 fact that the American Catholic bishops were asking Biden to 11 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:57.679 commute the sentences of everyone on death row, and that 12 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:02.039 Pope Francis had even reached out Tosident Biden to commute 13 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:05.760 the sentences of everyone on death row. The basic Catholic 14 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:12.319 position on the death penalty, if I can give a 15 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:19.959 fair overall summary, looking at the John Paul to Francis 16 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:25.719 sort of perspective as a whole, is basically one of negativity. 17 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:29.959 I think it's hard to sustain within Catholic teaching the 18 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.519 idea that the death penalty is inherently wrong. But the 19 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:38.439 John Paul, the second perspective which I don't want to 20 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:43.920 denigrate at all. The John Paul perspective, and his perspective, 21 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:49.040 let's remember, was coming from communist dominated Poland, where people 22 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:54.120 were executed in large numbers for ideological reasons, and so 23 00:01:54.439 --> 00:01:56.879 from John Paul the second perspective, I don't know that 24 00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:59.920 he saw too many, you know, just applications of the 25 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.200 death penalty during his lifetime Poland that was conquered first 26 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:09.719 by the Nazis than by the Soviets. But John Paul 27 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:11.960 the Second's formulation of Catholic teaching was that the death 28 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:19.680 penalty would only be legitimate in very limited circumstances, and 29 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:23.840 from JP two's perspective, with the developments in modern systems 30 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:29.400 of incarceration, it was largely unnecessary worldwide, and that it 31 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:32.360 would be a legitimate thing for Catholics to advocate for 32 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:34.840 its abolition. That was the perspective of John Paul the 33 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:38.680 Second Benedict the sixteenth. I think Francis has been a 34 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:44.599 bit more urgent in his and frankly, this has been 35 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:47.879 a difficulty with Francis's papacy is that he has been 36 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:52.039 less precise with his moral terminology than JP two was. 37 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:57.120 So that's the Catholic perspective. It's the perspective that Joe 38 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:02.159 Biden has been met with. I think the anyway, that's 39 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:06.120 the perspective, and I'm not going to disagree with it 40 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:11.639 or denigrate it. The thing that I was I have 41 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:15.159 been critical of Biden throughout his presidency that he had 42 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:22.240 for years stated that he was opposed to the death penalty. 43 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:27.360 Biden for years was opposed to the death penalty, as 44 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:33.560 were many, many, many Democrats, not all, but many. It 45 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:36.319 was liberal appointees to the Supreme Court who for a 46 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:43.759 time actually ruled that the death penalty was violet of 47 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.159 the Constitution itself, that the eighth Amendment of the Constitution 48 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:51.400 that prohibits cruel and unusual punishment actually prohibits the death penalty. Now, 49 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:56.479 that idea was reversed in the nineteen seventies, but it's 50 00:03:56.520 --> 00:04:00.560 a longstanding thing among liberal criminal justice type that the 51 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:06.159 death penalty is inherently wrong and should be abolished. And 52 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:13.759 Biden carried that position for years and campaigned on that 53 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:17.120 position in twenty twenty that he would abolish the federal 54 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:21.199 death penalty. Now, as president, you can't abolish the death 55 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:24.519 penalty for state governments, Okay, if you commit murder and 56 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:28.399 are prosecuted by a California state prosecutor or a Texas 57 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:31.839 state well, let's do this better. If you commit murder 58 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:34.680 in Texas and you're prosecuted by a Texas state prosecutor, 59 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:37.680 odds are death penalty is very much on the table, 60 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:40.040 and Joe Biden has nothing he can do to stop that. 61 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.959 Joe Biden is a federal official. You've been prosecuted by 62 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:48.800 state prosecutors in Texas. However, there are a number of 63 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:52.959 people who are prosecuted for capital crimes by federal prosecutors. 64 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:57.000 So there are about forty one people who are on 65 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:02.279 federal death row. Who secuted by federal prosecutors for crimes 66 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:05.680 doesn't necessarily mean that their crimes were worse than other peoples. 67 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:09.079 It was just that the offenses they had committed the 68 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:12.000 way they had committed them involved some kind of interstate 69 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:15.839 conduct or some other violation of federal law such that 70 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:20.480 federal prosecutors handled the prosecution rather than state prosecutors. So 71 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.279 Joe Biden had said when he was running for president 72 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:30.000 twenty twenty that he wanted to abolish the death penalty, 73 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:36.439 and of course, as president, he is uniquely positioned to 74 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:39.240 do something about it because he has the pardon and 75 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:49.120 commutation powers. As president, he can pardon every person for 76 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:56.120 any kind of federal crime. As part of the pardon power, 77 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:00.720 the president can also just commute a sense, a president 78 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:05.360 can completely make your criminal conviction go away, or what 79 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:08.199 he can do short of obviously, if he can get 80 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:12.839 rid of absolutely everything, he can get rid of something, okay. 81 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:16.079 So this is sort of a logical extension of the 82 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.759 sort of logically follows from the pardon power that if 83 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:24.000 you're able to completely expunge someone's criminal conviction and criminal punishment, 84 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:28.319 then you can expunge a portion of it as well. 85 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:35.319 So the president has the power to commute a person's sentence. 86 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:43.079 He can say, all right, you've been sentenced to death. Instead, 87 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:47.759 I will commute your sentence to life imprisonment without possibility 88 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:52.199 of parole. Okay, you've been sentenced to forty years in prison, 89 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:56.240 and I can commute your sentence to time served or 90 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:59.240 to five years in prison, you know whatever. So the 91 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:05.240 president has power. And one of the points I've been 92 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:09.240 making about Biden's Catholicism as it relates to the death 93 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:14.399 penalty is Biden has campaigned that he was opposed to 94 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:17.399 the death penalty. And that's the one thing that Catholic 95 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:20.240 liberals sort of like to beat their chests about and 96 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:23.120 say that, see, we follow the Church on the death penalty. 97 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:27.199 You ignore the Church on the death penalty. You know. Yeah, 98 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.120 we may not necessarily agree with the Church on abortion, 99 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:32.680 which you agree with the church, but but we agree 100 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:34.839 with the Church on the death penalty. Now, I always 101 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:37.000 thought the two things were sort of apples and oranges 102 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:42.079 a little bit. One. I think there's a very strong 103 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:48.639 argument to be made that these are completely different situations. 104 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:56.079 The Catholic Church has acknowledged the the legitimateness of the 105 00:07:56.120 --> 00:08:00.839 death penalty. It just has to be applied under just circumstances, 106 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:09.040 and there is some room for disagreement. Many Catholics argue, 107 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:13.600 I think in many cases convincingly that there's legitimate room 108 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:17.199 for debate about when the circumstances exist that the death 109 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:20.120 penalty could be warranted. And there are some Catholics today 110 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:22.879 who say, I think there are some circumstances today even 111 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.399 where the death penalty is warranted, And it's more an 112 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:30.839 argument of how do we correctly apply principles of Catholic 113 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:39.879 morality as opposed to abortion, which there's no circumstance under 114 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:44.240 which murder is okay, And that's just precisely what abortion is. 115 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:49.279 The negative absolute prohibitions of the moral law, as seen 116 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:55.440 in the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt 117 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.320 not steal, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not 118 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:02.879 bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet. Those are absolute 119 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:12.639 negative prohibitions. It's intrinsically evil to kill an innocent person. 120 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:18.039 It may not, in and of itself be evil to 121 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:24.120 kill a convicted murderer, particularly if there is some sense 122 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:26.879 that there's no other way to keep society safe from 123 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:34.200 that person. Okay. So I've always thought that Catholic liberals 124 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:37.759 trying to say, well, yeah, we may descend from abortion, 125 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:41.240 but you guys descend from the Church on the death penalty, 126 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:43.919 so therefore just the same here. No, no, no, no, no, 127 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:48.200 it's a different kind of thing. Catholic liberals dissenting from 128 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:58.679 abortion are dissenting from a fundamental, un arguable position of ethics. 129 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:04.720 Catholics who disagree about when and where and how the 130 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:07.840 death penalty should or shouldn't be applied. I think are 131 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:13.480 disagreeing on prudential application of questions of Catholic ethics. I think, 132 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:16.879 and I say this as someone who's not really a 133 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:18.799 fan of the death but I myself am not really 134 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:21.080 a fan of the death penalty, and you can label 135 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:25.080 me a softy liberal, but I'm willing to take the 136 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:31.279 guidance of JP two and Pope Benedict on this and say, yeah, 137 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:34.120 I don't know that it's really a useful tool of 138 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.039 criminal justice at this point, especially as it's exercised in America, 139 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:42.159 where people have twenty years worth of, you know, appeals 140 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:46.200 before they're ever actually executed. I don't know that it's 141 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:52.080 actually that effective a deterrent for criminal for the purposes 142 00:10:52.080 --> 00:11:01.159 of applying criminal law. Now, all that aside as it 143 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.840 relates to Biden in his Catholicism. The thing I have 144 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.320 always just been astonished by is that Biden campaigned on 145 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:11.399 I'm gonna abolish the death penalty. He gets elected, and 146 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.840 he proceeds to do nothing to abolish the death penalty. Nothing. 147 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:20.960 Even when he had unified Democrat control of the House, 148 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.320 the Senate, and the White House, he did nothing to 149 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:28.039 advance the abolition of the death penalty. Didn't introduce a bill. 150 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:33.000 And most critically, what Biden could have done at any 151 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:38.240 point over his four years in office is commute the 152 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:42.519 sentences of everyone on death row. He just announced a 153 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:46.759 moratorium on executions, but he didn't actually commute the sentences 154 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:50.639 of anyone on death row. Why because he immediately realized 155 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:57.039 it would have been unpopular to do so. And it 156 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:03.960 sort of showed to me. Biden's alleged Catholicism pretty much 157 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:09.759 ends at the point of a priest poured water on 158 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:14.519 his head when he was a baby, and a bishop 159 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:18.480 anointed his forehead when he was confirmed, and he goes 160 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:22.720 to mass. Outside of those things, and those are not 161 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:25.440 insignificant things I believe as a Catholic, I believe in 162 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.799 the sacraments. But outside of those things, his Catholicism has 163 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:34.399 impacted his life in essentially no way, shape or form 164 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:38.080 as it relates to his public life. He hasn't even 165 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:44.440 let the commitments of Catholicism that, you know, he's the 166 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:49.399 idea of the Catholic Church being opposed to the death penalty. Again, 167 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:51.720 there's more nuance to it than that, but let's just 168 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:58.679 accept it. Let's just take that as face value. Biden's 169 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:03.639 Catholicism is so anemic he has allowed it to impact 170 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:10.960 his public life so little that even with regards to 171 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.960 this issue of the death penalty, an issue that he 172 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:19.240 as a politician believes is unjust, a practice that he 173 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:22.159 believes is unjust, a practice he believes should be abolished, 174 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:28.440 a practice that his faith has guided him towards saying 175 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.600 is unjust and should be abolished. He meets with Pope Francis. 176 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:33.960 Pope Francis is urging him to commute the sentences of 177 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:37.240 these people, and his own party is largely supportive of this, 178 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:45.320 but not people in swing states, not people in Pennsylvania, 179 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:52.159 not people in Georgia. Not people in Pennsylvania, Georgia. What 180 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:57.120 were the swing states? Sorry, I'm losing track of what 181 00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:00.000 were all the swing states? Pennsylvania and Georgia and North 182 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:07.000 Carolina and Michigan in Wisconsin. Biden never commuted the death 183 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.360 sentences of all the guys on federal death row over 184 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.440 the course of the four years of his presidency. Why 185 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:17.759 because it would have been unpopular. The death penalty is 186 00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:25.360 still largely supported by people who are independents or moderately supported, 187 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:29.399 and Biden didn't want to risk it, so he never 188 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.080 commuted their death sentences again, in spite of the fact 189 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:39.679 that he allegedly believes the death penalty is unjust and 190 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:42.960 he's the one human being who could do something about 191 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.879 it more so than anyone. He could have commuted all 192 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:51.159 of the death sentences of all forty one guys on 193 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.720 death row with a snap of his fingers at any 194 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.000 pointing over his four years in office, and he didn't 195 00:14:57.080 --> 00:15:03.519 because of politics. Now, after the election on Monday, December 196 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:08.600 twenty third, he does it after the election when there's 197 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:19.039 no political ramifications. But he doesn't quite. He only commutes 198 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:24.360 the death sentences of thirty seven out of the forty 199 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:32.039 prisoners on death row. Only thirty seven out of forty. 200 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:39.200 Which ones did he not commute The Boston marathon bomber, 201 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:47.159 the Tree of Life synagogue shooter, and the guy who 202 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:52.039 murdered nine people at the Emmanuel Ame Church in Charleston, 203 00:15:52.080 --> 00:16:00.399 South Carolina. So let me understand, you only oppose the 204 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:08.279 death penalty unless it's for really, really really bad people. Oh, 205 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:13.279 then I guess you don't actually oppose the death penalty. 206 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:20.039 Yet again, it's Biden demonstrating he's not gonna let his 207 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:24.000 Catholic faith really influence him in a way that makes 208 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:29.840 any kind of sense in any way, shape or form. 209 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:36.759 We'll dig more into the absolute hypocrisy of pardoning only 210 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:42.080 most of the people convicted for capital crimes, commuting the 211 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:45.919 sentences of only most of the people convicted of capital crimes, 212 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:51.480 not all of them. I mean, how illogical is that. 213 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:54.159 We'll discuss this after the break. This is the John 214 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:59.120 Girardi Show on The Valley's Power Talk. President Biden on 215 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.159 Monday announced that he was commuting the death sentences of 216 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.519 thirty seven of the forty prisoners on federal death Row. 217 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:16.480 Why only thirty seven of the forty? He didn't commute 218 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:22.359 the sentences of the Boston marathon bomber, the Tree of 219 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:28.640 Life synagogue shooter, someone who murdered people at synagogue, and 220 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:31.799 the person who murdered nine people at the Emmanuel Ame 221 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:39.319 Church in Charleston, South Carolina. What does he say about now, 222 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:42.039 I'm going to make the argument I want to talk. 223 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:44.839 I'm talking about this from the perspective of Catholicism and 224 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:48.400 Biden's Catholicism, which I've argued has basically never, at any 225 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:51.920 point in his career, actually done anything to impact his 226 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:57.839 beliefs and his ethics and how he exercised public office. 227 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:02.559 And I'm astonish that this was like the one thing 228 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.079 commuting the senses of people on death Row. It's the 229 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:10.519 one thing where at least some interpretation of Catholicism. Okay, 230 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:13.200 and the Catholic position, as I've noted, on the death 231 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.799 penalty is a little more nuanced than this. But for 232 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.559 the most part JP two and John Paul the second 233 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:23.440 and Benedict the sixties of said, yeah, like, there might 234 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.519 be some circumstances where the application of the death penalty 235 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.920 is legitimate, but we think it's pretty rare, and so 236 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:33.920 it's fine for Catholics just to advocate for the abolition 237 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:38.920 of the death penalty. And there I think it's legitimate 238 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:42.960 to argue there could be some circumstances under which the 239 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.359 death penalty could be applied Legitimately. There's some disagreement among 240 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.759 different Catholic thinkers about are there such circumstances today? Pope 241 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.960 Francis does not think so. But is that a you know, 242 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.480 some kind of infallible teaching of the pope or is 243 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:03.960 that his prudential judgment. I think I think it would 244 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.240 be more his potential judgment. But but I do say 245 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.000 this as someone who's really not in favor of the 246 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.400 death penalty. So I say this is someone not in 247 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:16.759 favor of the death penalty. But I find Biden's position 248 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:25.039 hopelessly muddled and seems to have absolutely no bearing to 249 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.359 the teaching of the Catholic Church. Why well, if Biden 250 00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:33.440 thinks that the death penalty is unjust, how can he 251 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:46.839 commute only thirty seven of the forty sentences? Okay, Biden says, today, 252 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:49.319 I am commuting the sentences of thirty seven of the 253 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.559 forty individuals on federal death row to life sentences without 254 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.440 the possibility of parole. These commutations are consistent with the 255 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:01.000 moratorium my administration has imposed on federal executions in cases 256 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:09.960 other than terrorism and hate motivated mass murder. So the 257 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:16.039 death penalties only unjust except for really, really, really bad guys. 258 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:21.519 If that's your position, then you're not really opposed to 259 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:29.240 the death penalty. I remember Fanny Willis, the prosecutor for 260 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:32.440 Fulton County, Georgia, who's made a name for herself by, 261 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:34.519 you know, trying to pay off her boyfriend for the 262 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:38.759 prosecution of Donald Trump, and that case has gotten she's 263 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.119 been completely kicked off that case, which is hilarious. So 264 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.359 now some other district attorney's office in Georgia has to 265 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:46.039 take it up. And I don't think any district attorney's 266 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.160 office in Georgia is wanting to take up the twenty 267 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:56.200 twenty Georgia election case against Trump. Fanny Willis ran for 268 00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:59.680 DA of Fulton County, Georgia, which encompasses Atlanta, on the 269 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:04.599 of I oppose the death penalty. She got elected on that. 270 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.599 She got elected. You know, this is one of those 271 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:13.039 you know, Soros prosecutors. But then they had a case 272 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:17.440 where a guy shot up a bunch of Asian massage parlors. 273 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.079 Some of you might remember that case. The thing was 274 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:21.039 about two or three years ago, and she said, I 275 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.119 was opposed to the death penalty, but now that I've 276 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:27.160 seen this, I have to change my position. I have 277 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:29.160 to change my position. So now she's pursuing the death 278 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:31.359 penalty for that guy, which makes me think, okay, well, 279 00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:33.720 then you didn't really oppose the death penalty. If you 280 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.640 only oppose the death penalty except for someone who's really 281 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.960 really bad, then you don't oppose the death penalty. You 282 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:48.240 either opposed it or you don't, And it's entirely foreseeable, 283 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:53.039 given that we're talking about capital cases, that the death 284 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.920 penalty is going to have to be applied or not 285 00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:01.319 applied to people who do horrendously difficult things like terrorist 286 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:11.720 attacks or racially motivated murder. So I asked, So, it 287 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.279 seems that President Biden has basically decided he's not gonna 288 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:20.559 let his Catholicism impact him at all. He waited until 289 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:23.759 after the election when there would be no political ramifications. 290 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:26.519 But maybe he thought, you know, if I pardon the 291 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.880 Boston marathon bomber, there could be some residual political ramifications 292 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.480 for that for Democrats even after I'm gone. So I'm 293 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.039 not going to pardon him, or the person who shot 294 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:39.599 up that synagogue or the person who shot up the 295 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:44.599 African American church in South Carolina, because those were racially motivated. 296 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.799 So that guy's gotta go well, as opposed to all 297 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:52.079 the murderers on death row who weren't motivated by hate. Oh, 298 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.720 hate motivated shootings, those people got to be executed, but 299 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:00.440 not the love motivated shooting. Why Why is the motivation 300 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.960 of racism worse than the motivation of I want to 301 00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:06.880 kill this cop I want to, you know, I'm sure 302 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.079 if we go through the other thirty seven people on 303 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:13.200 death Row, it's not like they're all lovely people. Are 304 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:15.559 they that much worse that I'm You know, someone who 305 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:17.680 shoots up a synagogue or shoots up a Black church 306 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:19.839 because they don't like Jews or Black people is obviously 307 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:22.720 horrible and evil and a monster, and that's a terrible 308 00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:25.319 thing to do. It's not like the other thirty seven 309 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:32.119 guys on death row are nice people. So I think 310 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.799 it's official. Even in commuting the death sentences of thirty 311 00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:39.160 seven of the forty people, Biden has basically demonstrated his 312 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:44.160 Catholicism has impacted his career in public office basically zero percent. 313 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.680 So bravo. I mean, I guess you know he can 314 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:52.960 applaud himself for doing thirty seven fortieths of what he 315 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:55.920 perceives to be the right thing. When we return, I 316 00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:00.119 want to talk more about the death penalty theoretically and 317 00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:03.720 see if I can actually discern what Biden believes about it. 318 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.319 Not sure if I can. Next on The John Gerardi Show, 319 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:11.599 with President Biden commuting thirty seven of the forty death 320 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:13.960 row inmates on federal death Row, I want to talk 321 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.599 a little bit about the death penalty itself theoretically, how 322 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:21.079 legal thinkers think about it, how Christian legal thinkers think 323 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:25.359 about it. Let you step in a little bit to 324 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:32.799 my old criminal law classroom. There are four justifications for 325 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:40.440 criminal punishment that legal theorists have thought of. Okay, and 326 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.039 this is we sort of learned about this in law 327 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:45.440 school and sort of doing legal theory stuff. Okay, So 328 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:52.400 there are four kinds of justifications for criminal punishment. One 329 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:59.119 is correction, reform, rehabilitation. Okay, the idea of this person's 330 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.960 doing bad stuff, let's give him some kind of punishment 331 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.359 that that's really designed towards rehabilitating this person, reforming this person. 332 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:13.079 This reform as a motive for criminal punishment became very popular, 333 00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:19.599 especially in the twentieth century. Departments of you know, running 334 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:23.599 prison systems became known as part departments of corrections. So 335 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:27.200 we're going to correct the behavior. And this motivated a 336 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:30.400 lot of I think things that in some cases are 337 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.960 good to have. I think it's good for jails or 338 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.400 prisons to have, you know, programs for someone, Hey, why 339 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:39.759 don't you actually try and do something useful while you're 340 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:44.039 in prison? Finish your get your high school diploma, work 341 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:47.200 on this thing, get some skills developed, and maybe when 342 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:50.920 you get out you can have a better, different path 343 00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.079 in life. And and I think that's a legitimate thing. 344 00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.039 Now a lot of people don't take advantage of that, 345 00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:58.440 but there are many people who do, and that's a 346 00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:00.920 good thing. Okay. So correction is one of the motives 347 00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:10.160 of criminal justice punishments. The other is basically holding, restraining 348 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:14.039 this person, holding this person. This person's committing crimes, he's 349 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.000 a dangerous person. We punish him by putting him in 350 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:20.319 jail just to get him away from society, keep him 351 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:24.200 from doing more harm. That is ah motive, and I 352 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:29.359 think a strong one for criminal justice punishments. We can't 353 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.519 trust this person out on the streets. We gotta hold 354 00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:34.039 him in a secure place so he can't harm more people. 355 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:46.400 Another motive is deterrence, deterrence for this individual person and 356 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:51.640 deterrence for the broader population. California has learned about the 357 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:57.119 value of having some kind of deterrent. If people know 358 00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:59.799 that they're not really going to get punished that badly 359 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:05.319 for doing bad things, they're going to keep doing bad things, 360 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:12.720 simple as that. So you have to have punishments for 361 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.279 different kinds of crimes that are at least serious enough 362 00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:19.519 to be a deterrent. That's that is a valuable, important thing. 363 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:28.359 And then there's the idea of vengeance or retribution. Now, 364 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:32.759 there are some legal theorists who think that retribution vengeance. 365 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:35.079 You did a bad thing, a bad thing needs to 366 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:37.440 happen to you. There's some legal theorists who think that 367 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:42.759 this is an inherently silly motive or an inherently wrong 368 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:47.200 motive for criminal justice punishment. I wouldn't say so. I 369 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:53.839 would say that there it is an important moderating factor. Actually. 370 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:03.319 For basically, Okay, if you steal four hundred dollars worth 371 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:09.000 of merchandise from a store, your sentence shouldn't If you 372 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:13.160 shoplift four hundred dollars worth of merchandise, you should be punished, 373 00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:16.400 but you shouldn't be punished as much as if you 374 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:21.400 came into a store with a shotgun and stole two 375 00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:24.839 thousand dollars worth of merchandise. That person should be punished more. 376 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.279 He did more wrong things, He did more seriously wrong things. 377 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:35.359 If you embezzled five thousand dollars, your sentence shouldn't be 378 00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:40.920 as serious as the person who embezzled, you know, ten 379 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:47.119 million dollars like the bit whise CEOs. Okay, So vengeance 380 00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:51.680 or retribution as a motive for criminal punishment, it's really 381 00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:57.480 kind of a thing of proportionality for sentencing purposes. You've 382 00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:01.319 done something really bad, give you a worse sentence. You've 383 00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:03.559 done something less bad, we don't give you quite as 384 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:09.880 serious a sentence. Now, those are the four different motives 385 00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:18.119 for criminal punishment, okay, rehabilitation keeping someone away from society, 386 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:27.559 detaining someone deterring future bad behavior, deterring bad behavior, and 387 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:37.039 then retribution, having the punishment fit the crime. Proportionality and sentence. Now, 388 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:45.000 John Paul the Second as pope, he was charged with 389 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:49.279 providing ethical guidance for the Catholic Church, and he wrote 390 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:51.720 about the death penalty and wrote about the death penalty. 391 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:57.119 You know, and by the way, I think sometimes we 392 00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:02.640 as Americans and American Catholics, looking at how John Paul 393 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:04.440 the second was writing and thinking and talking about the 394 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:07.039 death penalty, we were looking at it from the relatively 395 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.960 sane perspective of American criminal law. Where American criminal law 396 00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:15.680 is largely a pretty just system has been over the 397 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.160 course of the twentieth century, largely in many cases a 398 00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:22.400 pretty just system. Most of the people convicted of murder 399 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:25.960 in the United States, one the vast majority, did it, 400 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:35.680 and two were convicted by some reasonable, fair judicial process. Now, 401 00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:37.839