WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:23.760 Yeah, spanning the entire globe, involving hundreds of different cultures, 2 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:26.399 explaining the same phenomenon by different name. 3 00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:33.079 The nature of the footprints, namely their remarkable consistency, their 4 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:38.960 biomechanical appropriateness. You know, those. 5 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:41.520 Aspects that that are are extremely compelling. 6 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:51.079 Mm hmmm. 7 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:56.679 Hey guys, welcome to the big Foot Influencers. My name 8 00:00:56.759 --> 00:00:57.840 is Tim Howaran and. 9 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:00.200 I'm Dana Halleran, and we're so excited today that have 10 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:04.560 a very very special guest we do. 11 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:06.840 We have an awesome guest coming on and we'll tell 12 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:09.439 you who it is in a second, but we leave 13 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:11.200 you hanging for a minute, not that long. 14 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.719 But so what's going on within I was just. 15 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:18.000 Like reading an article today. It was actually in Popular Mechanics, 16 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:22.560 and it's about a giant rat that was supposed to 17 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:27.319 be extinct. You know, hence going into the whole idea 18 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:29.959 that there are a lot of things that either we 19 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:32.560 think or extinct or don't exist, but we're discovering all 20 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:37.519 the time. And so researchers had long feat fear that 21 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:42.680 this Vanguonu giant rat is native to the forest of 22 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:46.439 the Solomon Islands, had gone extinct. You know, they had 23 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:50.359 a lot of people that lived there who had you know, 24 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:54.519 eyewitness accounts, you know, kept on telling everybody this thing 25 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:56.760 is still around. It's about twice the size of a 26 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.920 normal rat, so it's not like a tiny creature. And 27 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:05.519 finally in twenty seventeen, some loggers had found a dead 28 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:09.960 one and so they set up like one hundred trail 29 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:12.719 camps all throughout the island and we're able to capture 30 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:17.719 four images of this creature and so it's not extinct. 31 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:21.080 It does exist, and it's a pretty big animal for 32 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.280 them thinking it was extinct. So just goes to show 33 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:25.960 you could be the same thing with a lot of 34 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:28.000 other animals that we have here on earth. 35 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:32.520 Yeah, so that actually, I mean our guests will probably 36 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:34.560 have had kind of been sight in on that. 37 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.520 He's so well rehearse even though this is a big 38 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:39.000 foot show. 39 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:43.039 But you know, yeah, but other things all related. 40 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:44.680 Yeah, And so this just so you know, if you 41 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:47.400 want to look into it. It's a popular mechanics article 42 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:50.039 from December first. But I thought it was really interesting. 43 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:52.919 That is fascinating. So let's talk about our guests. 44 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:54.120 Yeah, let's talk about. 45 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:55.120 So we have. 46 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:02.400 Ken Gerhard joining us today and I was so fortunate 47 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:05.960 to meet Ken last summer. Right we were I was 48 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:08.000 in I was at a conference at the Cryptid and 49 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:12.840 Paranormal Festival in Perthay and Boy in New Jersey, and 50 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.039 I was there and I knew Ken was speaking, and 51 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:20.400 I was catching up with our friend Estabon Sarmiento. So 52 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:24.080 we we got to break bread beforehand, and we hung 53 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:25.080 out for dinner, and I. 54 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:26.240 Just got no Ken. 55 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:31.120 He's just such a genuine, intelligent, well rounded I just 56 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:31.800 I just love him. 57 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:32.599 He's just a great guy. 58 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:34.719 And that's why I'm so excited to meet him too, 59 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:37.560 because you know, after having this time with Ken, Tim 60 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:39.360 was just going on and on and on about him, 61 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:42.280 and you know, we see him all over the documentaries 62 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:45.759 and he's got you know, a bunch of awesome books out, 63 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:48.879 but you know, I don't think he gets interviewed very often, 64 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.240 and so we we feel a great honor and privileged 65 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:53.520 to have him here on the show too. 66 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:56.639 It is definitely and he's going to be at in January, 67 00:03:56.759 --> 00:03:59.520 so we're going to be at squatch Fest. So for 68 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:02.800 the audio that's coming up in January, I think we're 69 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:06.080 going to have some folks from squatch Fest the organizers 70 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.639 on the podcast to talk about it. I think they've 71 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:11.080 done it for thirteen or fourteen or fifteen years, and 72 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.439 it's in Washington State. There's gonna be an amazing lineup. 73 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:18.000 And Ken Gerhart's gonna be there too, I know so, 74 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:19.839 and we're gonna be there. We're gonna We're not gonna 75 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:21.639 be speaking, but we're gonna do some things to help 76 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:22.000 the event. 77 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:23.920 I think a little bit, are we, Yeah, a couple 78 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:24.279 of things. 79 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:26.600 Tim always gets me into things that I know nothing about. 80 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:29.519 So I'll arrive someone and be like, oh, guess what, Tina, Yeah, 81 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:31.120 we have to do a speaking event. 82 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:33.959 Anyway, let's bring Kennon. 83 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:35.879 Yeah, it's Ben. Wait long enough, let's bring him in. 84 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:38.040 All right, there he is. 85 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:41.360 Hey, Ken, Hey guys, it's great. 86 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:43.079 To be awesome to have you on the show. 87 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:45.040 Oh, thank you so much. 88 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:47.560 I appreciate it, so excited. 89 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.120 Appreciate your kind words, and it's an honor and a 90 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:51.079 pleasure to be here with you. 91 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:52.360 Awesome. 92 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:54.519 So what do you think about the giant rat thing? 93 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:58.879 Yeah, it's pretty cool. Several people. Typically when something like 94 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:00.839 that breaks in the news, people will send me the 95 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:06.000 clips and links and so forth. Yeah, you know this 96 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:09.160 is a perfect example of the Lazarus taxing. There's something 97 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:11.680 that happens in zoology where an animal is thought to 98 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:18.680 be extinct Lazarus, like Lazarus from the Bible, and taxing 99 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:23.680 taxonomy is classify. Yeah, it comes back, you know, the 100 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:29.160 yellow wallaby, the Chacohan pekeery in South America. So yeah, 101 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:33.040 these are things you know that science sometimes writes, writes 102 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.240 things off a little bit too soon. And it's always 103 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:39.560 a great pleasure as a obviously as a cryptosoldist, but 104 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.240 also just a naturalist and a fan of of the 105 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:44.560 animal kingdom in general. I think it's always cool and 106 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:48.199 when a species is kind of rediscovered, so so yeah, 107 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:51.360 obviously that this adds a little bit of ammunition to 108 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:54.160 the argument that there are things out there that that 109 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:56.920 science is not aware of. And of course on the 110 00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:59.319 remarkable end of the spectrum would be something like Bigfoot 111 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:01.439 or the sasqua but it's not impossible. 112 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:06.120 Yeah. And also being that the Sasquatch is, you know, 113 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:10.920 a highly intelligent creature and much more capable of being 114 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:16.839 aware of activities probably done by us, they're much better 115 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:17.920 at being elusive. 116 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:22.319 Yeah, I mean that's that's certainly one way to characterize it. 117 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:25.480 You know, one of the theories that I kind of 118 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.319 put out there is what I refer to as avoidance behaviors. 119 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:31.600 So intelligence in the animal kingdom can be measured in 120 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:33.720 a lot of different ways in terms of how animals 121 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:37.360 are able to overcome challenges and so forth. In terms 122 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:43.120 of bigfooter sasquatch, if it exists, I'm assume, I'm assuming 123 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:45.879 that it's an incredibly rare animal, so it's you know, 124 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.879 something that there. If there were more of them, you know, 125 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:51.920 we'd probably know they exist by now, so they must 126 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:56.040 be very rare. But I think moreover there, probably they've 127 00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:01.839 have behavioral adaptations specifically to avoid being found by us. 128 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:04.519 So they would be intelligent enough to go to your 129 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:08.600 point data to recognize that humans, Homo sapiens, are the 130 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:11.800 greatest threat for their extinction, and perhaps if we've lived 131 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:15.000 alongside them for thousands of years, they saw what happened 132 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:18.759 to some of the other hominins that Homo sapiens eradicated 133 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:23.759 or replaced, out competed, and so forth. So, you know, 134 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:27.399 would makes sense that these avoids behaviors would include, you know, 135 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:32.399 living in areas that humans don't go moving around quite 136 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:35.720 a bit and moving out of the area when we're around. 137 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.160 You know, I think generally these are reticent animals that 138 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:41.519 don't want any contact with us. And you know, I 139 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:46.000 think that that can be you know, but there's evidence 140 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.560 of that in the patters in Gimlin film and numerous 141 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:51.759 encounters where people and you see these things and they're 142 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:54.600 hiding behind trees. You know, they tend to move away 143 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:56.800 from us quickly when they're when they're seen. 144 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.519 Yeah, and Ken, you have you have you found? And 145 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:03.079 I know the answer is yes, but I just want 146 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:06.079 you to explain it other animals that are known to 147 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.800 us that do the same thing well as or as 148 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:10.720 the avoidance piece. 149 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:13.879 You know, a lot of animals, particularly the animals that 150 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:19.199 have that are hunters and predators. Things like cats are 151 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:25.560 very elusive obviously there. Yeah, any cat species is built 152 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:28.040 to not be seen. I mean, they're ambush predators, so 153 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:29.879 they don't want to be seen by anything. They're hunting. 154 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.840 But they're typically not seen by humans, even in areas 155 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:36.759 where we know they're healthy populations. For example of pumas, 156 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:40.440 you know, we see their tracks, we see other evidence 157 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:43.919 that they're there. There's scap piles and so forth. But 158 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:46.879 what we don't see is the actual animal very often. Now, 159 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:48.759 of course, if you spend enough time in the outdoors, 160 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:50.919 you might catch a feeding glimpse of a bobcat or 161 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:56.320 a puma at some point. So typically it is animals 162 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.840 that are higher up on the on the intelligent scale. 163 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:01.919 But you know, you see examples every day. I go 164 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:04.320 hiking every morning, and there's tons of deer around where 165 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:06.720 I live, and you know, sometimes that dear will be 166 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:08.279 right out in front of me on the trail and 167 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:11.480 it just takes a few steps into the brush and 168 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:13.519 I can't see it anymore. Even if the brush isn't 169 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:15.240 real heavy, it just has a way of kind of 170 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.879 camouflaging itself. So so I think there are a lot 171 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:21.919 of examples in the animal kingdom of species that recognize 172 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:24.840 humans are dangerous or sense that humans are dangerous and 173 00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:27.399 move away from us quickly and are just good at 174 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:28.200 not being found. 175 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:32.000 That's a great point. I was actually reading another article 176 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:36.200 today about how Homo sapiens, you know, like what happened 177 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:41.519 to all the other Homo genesis in the in the 178 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:44.840 world that existed. You know, Neanderthals were thought to exist 179 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:48.960 about thirty to forty thousand years ago and what was 180 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:52.039 their demise? And scientists are thinking that it was the 181 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:57.559 Homo sapiens that into bread into bread and kill them off, 182 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:02.320 or we're just lot more intelligent were able to survive longer. 183 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.080 Yeah, I mean that's a fair assumption. To some extent, 184 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:11.000 we assimilated them, but we also eradicated them, probably in 185 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:15.240 direct conflicts. Same can be said of the denisivans in Asia, 186 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:20.399 Homo floresiensis, you know, Homo noletti and Africa was around 187 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:24.039 only fifty thousand years ago. But all these species presumably 188 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.240 are no longer around now. I don't want to sound 189 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:29.879 like a hypocrite because I think bigfoot sasquatch is the exception. 190 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:34.279 I think there is one species of relic, Homminin that 191 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:40.720 did survive, and very small numbers probably, And again much 192 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.919 of that may be due to these avoidance behaviors that 193 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.480 they basically just figured out at some point that they 194 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:49.679 needed to stay away from humans and retreat farther into 195 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:51.039 the deep wilderness. 196 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:53.919 And what do you think about the possibility ken that 197 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:57.879 it could also be their size and strength that made 198 00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:03.320 them a lot more resistant to you know, human you know, 199 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.039 danger from humans, being like if this thing is, you know, 200 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:10.279 really seven feet eight feet tall. I mean, you know, 201 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:12.480 there's only so much we can do. 202 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:14.919 It's something that really can't be hunted and chased down 203 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:17.000 because they can fight back too. 204 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:21.759 Yeah, that's a fair point from an ecological standpoint. I 205 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:26.759 frequently make the argument that bigfoot is very similar to 206 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.960 to the bears that we have here in North America 207 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:36.879 black bears versus AMERICANUS brown bears of course, versus arc 208 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:41.159 dose MIDDENDORFII. Not so much polar bears. But they feel 209 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:45.039 a similar ecological niche in that they are probably, based 210 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:50.039 on the evidence, generalist omnivores opportunistic dominnivar. So they eat 211 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:52.519 a lot of things, a lot of different types of things, 212 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:56.279 and they would have to if they're big and endothermic, 213 00:11:58.279 --> 00:11:59.639 and they live in they seem to live in a 214 00:11:59.639 --> 00:12:01.960 lot of the habitats. Yeah, I'm sure you guys have 215 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:04.279 heard about that study that was done a few years ago, 216 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.320 and also the overlays and correlations between populations of bears 217 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:13.279 and assumed populations or alleged populations of bigfoot that those 218 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:15.600 overlap very well, and that would make sense in terms 219 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.679 of animals that fill a similar ecological niche. You know, 220 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:23.679 keystone species, they're apex predators when it comes to the 221 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:27.440 pretty much anything on the food chains. So yeah, they're big, 222 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:31.240 they're powerful. Jeff Mildrim of course, also always likes to 223 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:34.240 talk about how, you know, we're built for brains and 224 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:38.159 Bigfoot is built for brawn. That's obvious to some extent 225 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:40.440 because of the sheer size and stuff. But I think, 226 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.200 you know, short of like tool use and fire use, 227 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:48.159 we don't have any evidence of anything along those lines culture, 228 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:52.279 language or anything like that. But again, you know, they 229 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.159 may have a level of intelligence in terms of recognizing, 230 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:57.639 you know, what is dangerous to them, and there probably 231 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:00.399 aren't many things out there the threat them are that 232 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:03.759 are dangerous to them because of their massive size and 233 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:05.039 mobility and so forth. 234 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:09.759 But we certainly are Well, you just mentioned language can 235 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:12.840 and so do you think I mean, there's been some 236 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:15.679 recordings obviously, maybe one of the most famous is what 237 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:16.759 the Cira sounds? 238 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:18.320 Do you think? 239 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:21.039 Do you think there's some type of language from everything 240 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:23.480 that you know, everything that you've researched and looked. 241 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:26.440 Into, I haven't seen any evidence of that, And of 242 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:30.159 course i've heard our Scott Nelson do a presentation on 243 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.679 you know, on the Sierra sounds, and you know, he's 244 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:35.639 he obviously is a linguist, and a lot of people 245 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:40.320 have put a lot of weight into his conclusions. It's interesting. 246 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.519 I don't know how much of that, if any, has 247 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:46.559 been peer reviewed, and I think that's where you would 248 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:50.120 really have to go to, you know, build an argument 249 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:54.840 for that. But certainly, as primates, they are you know, 250 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:58.200 good at communicating, and there is ample evidence that they 251 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:06.000 use a variety of different types of vocations whistles, howls, screams, moans, 252 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:10.399 teeth clacking, wood knocking, and all these different things. So 253 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.440 they probably have ways to communicate with each other. And 254 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:17.720 a lot of animals, do you know, primates, monkeys and 255 00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:19.919 things use a lot of facial expressions but also a 256 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.919 variety of different types of sounds with each other to 257 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:27.240 communicate to each other. Other animals species have ways of 258 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.399 communicating with each other that are more subtle, you know, 259 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:34.480 particularly things like danger and follow me and that kind 260 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.879 of stuff. So yeah, that would make sense. But you know, 261 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:42.720 in terms of language, I mean, again, certainly there's no 262 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:47.120 evidence that they have any civilization or culture or anything 263 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:50.000 like that. So I think in terms of what we 264 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:52.799 consider to be language in our species, which is a 265 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:58.080 pretty advanced and complex and we actually have probably thousands 266 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:02.039 of languages on our planet, right, So, but languages are, 267 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:05.000 you know, have a pretty it's a pretty in depth 268 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.759 concept in terms of the number of different types of 269 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:12.039 expressions and ideas that can be conveyed. And I don't 270 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:16.159 see any reason based on their physical descriptions, which we've 271 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:19.240 already talked about, that they would have that capability. And 272 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:23.000 also you know the fact that most people have described 273 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:26.440 their heads as looking like what kind of receding right, 274 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:29.480 kind of that conical head with the receiving foe and 275 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.200 the heavy brow ridge that's that's frequently described, So that 276 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:35.320 would indicate that they do have a somewhat of a 277 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:38.919 smaller brain or more of a primitive you know, maybe 278 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.480 more in lines of a great ape or something like 279 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:47.039 Homo erectus or an australiapithesceene, not the fifteen hundred cubic 280 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.480 centimeters that we have on average, but you know, maybe 281 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:53.399 something half that. So it just doesn't make sense to 282 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.440 me that they would have a true language, right, And. 283 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.360 I think we get hung up in my ignorance too 284 00:15:58.440 --> 00:15:58.960 with it is. 285 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:02.080 They all aimals communicate, so they know how to communicate 286 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:02.600 with each other. 287 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:07.399 Whales, so yeah, birds obviously great communicators. 288 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.039 So mm hmmm, yep, Yeah, they definitely know if they 289 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:14.559 even Yeah, when we're eating chicken and she wants. 290 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.080 Them, she. 291 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:21.159 Has a yeah, it's. 292 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:24.480 Well and in ken'scott it. You know. 293 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:27.919 Obviously, in addition to traveling the world doing you know, 294 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:32.000 studying different types of potential cryptids and things like that, 295 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:35.519 he also works at the San Antonio Zoo, so he 296 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:38.480 gets I mean that he's with animals all the time. 297 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:40.120 So do you want to share just a little. 298 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:40.360 Bit about that. 299 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:44.440 Yeah, I'm actually a docent or a volunteer educator at 300 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:47.440 the San Antonioso. Have been there eight years and it's 301 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:51.159 been an amazing experience. You know, at first, I'm not 302 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:53.639 sure they knew what to do with me, but in 303 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.440 recent years they've really kind of welcomed me into the 304 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:01.399 what I do. And you know, I as a voluntary educator, 305 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:05.319 I do, you know, tours for class classes kids, and 306 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.640 I interpret exhibits at the zoo for people that are visiting. 307 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.720 But in recent years they've actually had me doing lectures 308 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:17.640 and presentations on cryptozoology and things like Bigfoot at the 309 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:20.240 zoo for some of the guests, which is actually a 310 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:24.920 pretty big deal because we're a scientifically accredited organization. We 311 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:30.480 carry three major accreditations, including the AZA, and so we 312 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.960 are a full on scientific organization and so the fact 313 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.400 that they've kind of let me in and let me 314 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:39.240 talk about some of these topics is pretty exciting because 315 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:41.880 you know, we're in the big fulfilled we're always bemoaning 316 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.200 the fact that science doesn't take an interest in what 317 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:47.319 we're doing or talking about. Now, I'd also add in 318 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:51.039 that the San Antonio Zoo is the only zoo that's 319 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:55.240 ever mounted an expedition for something like Bigfoot to my knowledge, 320 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.440 and this was back in nineteen fifty seven when they 321 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.720 searched for the Yetti. They actually the San Antonios sponsored 322 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.559 one of the Tom Slick Yetti expeditions back ineteen fifty 323 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.079 seven in the Himalaya. So we have a history at 324 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.720 our zoo of actually you know, or a connection to cryptozoology, 325 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:13.920 I should say, which is pretty cool. 326 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:17.680 So, Ken, I have oquaick question for you, because I'm 327 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:21.000 sure that most of your time, uh like on these 328 00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:24.799 type of programs or whether you're in a documentary. You know, 329 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:27.759 probably a lot of the time you're talking about Bigfoot, 330 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.240 what is what is like the So what are some 331 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:37.000 of your other cryptos that you are very interested in? 332 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:43.400 Well, I kind of started my feet my journey in 333 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:47.359 the field of cryptozoology seriously with reports of what are 334 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.799 called thunderbirds or big birds, which are giant wings you know, 335 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:54.559 birds or some people described and was looking like giant 336 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:59.720 flying reptiles, like pterodactyl type things, but not certainly not. 337 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.640 Reports are not as prevalent as Bigfoot by a long shot, 338 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:08.599 but there are, you know. I've interviewed dozens, if not hundreds, 339 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.799 of seeing an incredible eyewitnesses who swear they've seen winged 340 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.519 animals with fifteen twenty foot wingspans, and of course science 341 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.519 doesn't acknowledge it. Anything like that exists. That was a 342 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:20.640 subject of my first book, which was called Big Bird, 343 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:24.000 Modern Sightings and Flying Monsters. I've been on a number 344 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.880 of television shows about the so called Chupacaba, you know, 345 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.960 about both here in Texas and in Mexico, and of 346 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:32.119 course most people will think of Puerto Rico and other 347 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.680 Latin American countries. I've written a book about the Mofman, 348 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:38.000 which I guess would kind of go in the wing 349 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:43.519 cryptid category. And just recently I returned from Lockness. So 350 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:46.319 I've done research at Lockness for the Lockness Monster and 351 00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:50.720 other lake monsters across North America, Canada and so forth, 352 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:57.920 big mystery, big cats, black panthers. So yeah, I'm blessed 353 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.480 to be considered one of the generalists in the field 354 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.279 of cryptozoology. Or you know, I do research a lot 355 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:06.960 of gift subjects, not just Bigfoot or sausquatch. 356 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.200 So so I don't really have much knowledge at all 357 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.359 about the thunderbird. Can you, like, do you guys have 358 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.880 evidence or like I mean, I'm looking behind you and 359 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.519 you've got tons of big Foot footprints behind you, and 360 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:25.599 we've got you know, we've got some video footage, whether 361 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:28.519 people believe them to be true or not. What do 362 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:30.240 you do you have anything like that on any of 363 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:31.200 the other cryptids. 364 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:37.480 Unfortunately not. Let's use thunderbirds as an example. Unlike Bigfoot, 365 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.799 where like you said, we have physical trace evidence and 366 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:45.839 the Patterson Gimmen film and hares and audio sample audio recordings, thunderbirds, 367 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.880 all the evidence is anecdotal. There's no one has found 368 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:55.200 to my knowledge a giant feather nest, egg, eggshell, giant 369 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.720 pile of bird poop on their car, or anything like that. 370 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:02.839 So it's it's all anecdotal. But you do have similar 371 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.079 to bigfoot or sasquatch. You do have many different Native 372 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:11.559 American traditions all across the continent that described giant birds 373 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:15.640 that are much larger than eagles or anything known to 374 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:21.640 the Lakota. It's the walkingon to the Pawnee, the Huhuck, 375 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.279 the Cherokee have the planoa. You know, there's just a 376 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:27.599 bunch of different names for them, but they're all essentially 377 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:31.720 described thunder beams or thunderbirds giant birds. In modern times, 378 00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:36.480 there have been many sightings. There's one controversial film from 379 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:40.480 Illinois from nineteen seventy seven that hasn't really convinced a 380 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:43.200 lot of people, but it's interesting. But other than that, 381 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:45.519 it's just a lot of people that I've run into 382 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:48.680 that swear to me that they've seen something. And the 383 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.799 average wingspan describes about fourteen feet. Now, it's an estimate, 384 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.759 and obviously people have a tough time estimating size on 385 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.759 things that are flying through the air or you know, 386 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.599 different heights, and but the average wing span estimated is 387 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.599 about fourteen feet. Some people say that it's much larger. 388 00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:13.519 Feathers usually solid dark color like black, gray or brown, 389 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:20.559 hooked beak like an acepterorid, a raptor. So pretty consistent 390 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:26.359 eyewitness descriptions like Bigfoot, many Native American traditions like Bigfoot, 391 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:33.039 but very very little evidence or no evidence really outside 392 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:36.839 of these stories and reports. So in that sense, it's 393 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:39.480 much harder to make an argument for some thunderbirds. The 394 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.960 evidence for lake monsters is very good. You have some 395 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:48.279 compelling photos you have and films, you have some very 396 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.880 consistent eyewitness descriptions. All of the lakes where these things 397 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:55.599 are described and reported seem to be very similar types 398 00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:59.279 of lakes, very deep, cold, the Northern hemisphere kind of 399 00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:04.440 glacial lake like lock Ness, Champlain, Okanagan and so forth, 400 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:08.200 inhabited by similar species of fish. There's sonar evidence of 401 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:14.240