1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,879 no ads? Easy? Become a patron for just five dollars 3 00:00:07,919 --> 00:00:10,800 a month. You get access to a private RSS feed 4 00:00:10,839 --> 00:00:14,279 where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, 5 00:00:14,279 --> 00:00:16,879 we'll get you that and a special dot net Rocks 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,000 patron mug. Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:36,280 dot com. Hey, welcome back to dot net rocks. It's 8 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:40,759 Carl Franklin and I'm Richard Cawell and wow, wow, wow, wow. 9 00:00:41,439 --> 00:00:43,719 It's been a while. Yeah, it's been a ride. 10 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: It's been a holiday season. You know, we've done them things, 11 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:47,960 so it all is well. 12 00:00:47,799 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's it's been a good first month 13 00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:54,000 of the year, I think pretty much. 14 00:00:54,359 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: I'm in London and you're not if I'm not doing 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,240 the timeshofting aarage. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,159 Speaker 1: Although two days after this come out, I will be 17 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,599 going to a wine and food festival at Mohegan Sun 18 00:01:05,599 --> 00:01:08,000 where a lot of the chefs from the Food Network 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,480 will be hanging out. Very nice, so I'm looking forward 20 00:01:10,519 --> 00:01:13,439 to Yeah, it'll be good. Abnombing with Food Royalty anyway. 21 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,359 Isaac Levin is here talking about something called dev Box, 22 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,120 but we'll get to that in a minute. First, we 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:30,680 have better no framework, A man, what do you got? 24 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:31,079 Speaker 2: All right? 25 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: Well, quickly, I wanted to announce my new YouTube show 26 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:36,840 called Guitar Carl. 27 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: Oh you are a guitar Carl. 28 00:01:39,159 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know I've been playing since I did 29 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,120 The Math since nineteen seventy seven. 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a while. 31 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when I started playing, so almost fifty years. 32 00:01:48,359 --> 00:01:52,560 And geez, I just I got inspired because I was 33 00:01:52,599 --> 00:01:55,599 out playing a gig and this guy who had started 34 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,079 guitar later in life, I think he's even retired now, 35 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,920 when he started learning songs and playing them out and 36 00:02:02,959 --> 00:02:05,519 he was just asking me questions about, you know, how 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,120 do you get over anxiety and imposter syndrome? And so 38 00:02:09,159 --> 00:02:11,400 we had this chat and I offered him some advice 39 00:02:11,439 --> 00:02:13,599 and he thought it was very very helpful, and I said, 40 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,639 you know, maybe I had to do like a show. 41 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,680 Well you know the things that I've learned about guitars 42 00:02:19,719 --> 00:02:23,719 and playing and sure all those things, because you know, 43 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,520 we forget what we know. Yeah, And I think you're 44 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,840 the one who told me that is that we have 45 00:02:28,879 --> 00:02:30,840 a tendency to assume that everybody knows. 46 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 2: That we know. Yeah, yeah, we keep forgetting that that. No, 47 00:02:33,199 --> 00:02:34,360 that's harder and knowledge. 48 00:02:34,759 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: Right. So the one thing I am not doing in 49 00:02:36,719 --> 00:02:41,360 this show is overplaying, like, you know, hitting you over 50 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,080 the head with my guitar playing so that it makes 51 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,280 you feel like why should I go on less then? 52 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,159 Because I don't like that. I don't like when people do. Hey, 53 00:02:51,479 --> 00:02:54,360 just learn this magic formula and you two can be 54 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,360 a rock star whatever. 55 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,879 Speaker 2: No, Yeah, what I learned from you is that you're 56 00:02:57,879 --> 00:03:01,719 a great guitar player for exactly one reason. Tons of practice, 57 00:03:01,879 --> 00:03:04,960 tons of practice, tons, right, I've watched you do it. 58 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,159 Speaker 1: So anyway, check that out. It's a just search YouTube 59 00:03:07,159 --> 00:03:11,719 for guitar Karl and there's a link too. And but 60 00:03:11,879 --> 00:03:16,319 before we move on, Richard, let's talk about nineteen thirty four. 61 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: Well it's a good one. 62 00:03:17,479 --> 00:03:20,319 Speaker 1: This is episode nineteen thirty four, and I went looking 63 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,800 and we'll put the link to you know, take me 64 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:28,560 back to Yeah, there was just so much that happened 65 00:03:28,599 --> 00:03:32,120 in nineteen thirty four. It's great that only I only 66 00:03:32,159 --> 00:03:34,919 got through three months and then I said, screw it, 67 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:35,319 I can't. 68 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:36,319 Speaker 2: You just had to stop. 69 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: I just had to stop. So that's why the link. 70 00:03:39,039 --> 00:03:43,159 But let me just summarize here. So Nazi Germany had 71 00:03:43,199 --> 00:03:46,439 its rise in nineteen thirty four. Thirty four was a 72 00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:47,919 big year. It was a big year. So they made 73 00:03:47,919 --> 00:03:50,560 it illegal for pastors and church officials to oppose the 74 00:03:50,639 --> 00:03:53,840 Nazi Party. Nice they abolished the Upper Chamber of the 75 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,680 German Parliament, further dismantling their democratic institutions. They enacted a 76 00:03:58,719 --> 00:04:03,120 eugenics law to prevent genetically inferior offspring, and that kind 77 00:04:03,159 --> 00:04:06,439 of paved the way towards some of their other halacious 78 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:12,560 things that they went through. An anti Semitic stage performance 79 00:04:12,639 --> 00:04:16,519 ban forbid Jews from performing on German stages. This is 80 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:19,600 all nineteen thirty but this is all like January February 81 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:26,079 rights Nazi Germany's military issued a discriminatory policy banning Jews 82 00:04:26,079 --> 00:04:30,639 from enlisting in the German military. Himmler consolidated police power 83 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,959 in Nazi Germany, assuming complete command of all police forces 84 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,879 in Germany, significantly expanding the centralized control and potential for 85 00:04:39,959 --> 00:04:45,279 state sponsored oppression. Moving on to Austria, it was the 86 00:04:45,319 --> 00:04:49,319 Austrian Civil War, short lived, but still it was there. 87 00:04:49,439 --> 00:04:54,800 Chancellor Engelbert Daulphuss dissolved. I don't know it was dissolved 88 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,160 all political parties except his own right wing Fatherland Front. 89 00:04:58,360 --> 00:04:59,399 Speaker 2: That's nice effect. 90 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, all other parties are illegal. 91 00:05:02,439 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 2: You can have one party. 92 00:05:03,319 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, one party in Italy. Mussolini gave his famous sixty 93 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,639 year Planned speech. That was on March eighteenth. And in 94 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,120 some good news, Edwin Hubble discovered galaxy population. 95 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: He made that great photograph. 96 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,199 Speaker 1: Yep, and that photograph revealed the number of galaxies in 97 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,680 the Obserble universes comparable to the number of stars in 98 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:25,560 the Milky Way. 99 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:30,079 Speaker 2: And he was underestimating. Yes, it's more. And that was 100 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,639 all before April. Yeah, no kidding. 101 00:05:33,439 --> 00:05:36,639 Speaker 1: So I encourage you to it's good to know history, 102 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,079 and just go take a look through those events that 103 00:05:39,079 --> 00:05:39,959 happened in nineteen three. 104 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 2: Look at a year each week as we do. 105 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, you have anything to add, Richard, throw. 106 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,639 Speaker 2: In a couple. One is this is the year that 107 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,319 the ham And organ was patented. Wow, got to do 108 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,720 a music one, you know, Yeah. 109 00:05:50,759 --> 00:05:53,639 Speaker 1: Wow. Mother's Day. The first Mother's Day was in nineteen three. 110 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 2: Yeh, this is when the dust storms began, the giant 111 00:05:57,519 --> 00:05:59,759 dust storms. It was a two day dust storm across 112 00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:03,720 the West, such fine dust that it penetrated absolutely everything 113 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:05,839 coded everything with dust, and the dust went up in 114 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,519 the atmosphere and stayed there. It snowed red snow in 115 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,160 New England that winter. The dust storm was in the summer. 116 00:06:13,319 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: That is crazy. 117 00:06:14,199 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 2: And I'll end with a fun one. The game Monopoly 118 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,879 was created in nineteen thirty Oh wow wow, which was 119 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,240 an indictment about concentration of wealth. The game, Yeah, that's right. 120 00:06:27,319 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: It was actually a cautionary game, wasn't it. That's right, 121 00:06:29,959 --> 00:06:34,879 and it was stolen and turned into a capitalistic celebration. 122 00:06:35,639 --> 00:06:38,279 So that's what I got. Richard, who's talking to us today. 123 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 2: Grabbing coppin tov our show eighteen thirteen, the one we 124 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,399 did with one Isaac Levin maybe've heard of him m 125 00:06:44,199 --> 00:06:47,720 talking about developing on developing dot net on AWS. This 126 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,560 is back in twenty two, so a couple of years back. 127 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,680 And Aaron Morgan had this great comment again two years old, 128 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,720 this great show. Guys really loved Isaac's knowledge of AWS 129 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,680 and Azure and his ability to communicate the ins and 130 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,800 outs without over complicating things. So Coffee and open Source 131 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:08,680 has a new subscriber, and that's Isaac's podcasts. Yeah, so 132 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,759 I'll include I link in the show notes for that 133 00:07:10,839 --> 00:07:12,680 if you want to catch it. The first thing I 134 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:13,959 did was go check to see if you still go 135 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,839 on Isaac, because I know it's hard, but still do it. 136 00:07:18,879 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 3: The thing I did one this morning earlier today. 137 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, Hey, we did too, how about that? Yeah, and 138 00:07:24,959 --> 00:07:27,240 I've done one, So Aaron, thank you so much for 139 00:07:27,319 --> 00:07:28,959 your comment, and a copy of music go ba is 140 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,240 on its way to you. And if you'd like a 141 00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:31,920 copy of music, Cobey, I read a comment on the 142 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,319 website at dot NetRocks dot com or on the facebooks. 143 00:07:34,319 --> 00:07:36,439 We publish every show there and if you comment there 144 00:07:36,439 --> 00:07:37,639 and every did on the show, we'll send you a 145 00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:38,519 copy of music go by. 146 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: And you can definitely follow us on social media to 147 00:07:41,399 --> 00:07:43,879 get a copy of music to codey. We've been on 148 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:49,399 ex Twitter forever and we're also on mastadon and on 149 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,000 blue Sky and some form of at Carl Franklin and 150 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,079 at Rich Campbell you can find us. So with that, 151 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,600 let us bring back to dot net ry our friend 152 00:08:00,639 --> 00:08:05,279 Isaac Levin. He is a now a developer advocate as 153 00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:09,040 well as a Microsoft MVP. He has over ten years 154 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,920 of experience working as a developer for the web, mostly 155 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,920 a Microsoft ecosystem. Outside of work, he hosts a podcast 156 00:08:15,959 --> 00:08:19,319 called Coffee and open Source, where he interviews folks from 157 00:08:19,319 --> 00:08:22,399 across the tech industry, as well as building open source 158 00:08:22,439 --> 00:08:27,319 projects like presence Light and GitHub stat Tracker. He lives 159 00:08:27,319 --> 00:08:29,680 outside of Seattle, Washington, and likes to wind down from 160 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,360 work with his wife, Ariana and his two children, Isaac 161 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,639 and Avery. Welcome back. 162 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Before we get started, I 163 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,639 had because I'm a valid listener. I came up with 164 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,159 some also cool things from nineteen thirty four if you 165 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:48,759 don't mind cool ooh, yes, yeah, so's a big year. Yeah, 166 00:08:48,799 --> 00:08:54,759 well January first, a little facility called Alcatraz is opened 167 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:55,480 for the first time. 168 00:08:56,159 --> 00:08:56,639 Speaker 1: Wow. 169 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 3: Also, if you're a baseball fan, big year in baseball, 170 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,399 Babe Ruth and Nautra's retirement, and the Yankees had a 171 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,720 player called up named Joe DiMaggio. 172 00:09:06,039 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: Nope, so I think there was a fire in Fenway Park. 173 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:10,080 Wasn't there? Also? 174 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 3: There was there was? 175 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:11,519 Speaker 2: Yep? 176 00:09:11,639 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, again, thank you so much for 177 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,320 having me. It's great to be here. 178 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: Great to have you again. 179 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: Always get to talk to you, Brod. 180 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,639 Speaker 1: Last time we talked to you at Amazon, Right, that 181 00:09:21,759 --> 00:09:25,279 was correct? Dang aws stuff. Ye, and you've moved on. 182 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:26,159 So are you're independent? 183 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: Now? 184 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: You work for Microsoft? Exactly where are you? 185 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 3: Yeah? So I'm I am a contractor, I mean vendor 186 00:09:32,279 --> 00:09:38,399 at Microsoft, focusing primarily on developer marketing, specifically around all 187 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,639 the things that Microsoft talks about these days, get a 188 00:09:40,639 --> 00:09:46,000 co pilot, dev box, visual studio vs. Code AI, all 189 00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:46,600 the fun. 190 00:09:46,399 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: Things, you know. After I became an MVP, every year 191 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,639 i'd get a dev box in the mail. Is that 192 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,759 what we're talking That's what we're talking about here, right, Yeah? Yeah, yeah, 193 00:09:54,799 --> 00:09:57,919 the dev box. Yeah. No, I have to admit this 194 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,200 is so new. I didn't I hadn't heard about it, 195 00:10:00,279 --> 00:10:02,279 and then I went out and took a look at it, 196 00:10:02,279 --> 00:10:04,759 and I looked at the website and I still don't 197 00:10:04,799 --> 00:10:05,320 know what it is. 198 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 2: So fair enough, fair enough, it's like. 199 00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:13,159 Speaker 1: Some cloud service for managing development teams in the cloud. 200 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:17,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, let me So. I've been doing this for a while, 201 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,320 not as long as you folks, but I remember a 202 00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:26,039 very particular point in time when you didn't really do 203 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,559 any development on your machine. You had vms right that 204 00:10:29,639 --> 00:10:32,360 had very specific things, right like that was a development 205 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,000 uh and a way of managing developer teams is that 206 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,639 you'd have VMS and then that VM maybe had this 207 00:10:38,799 --> 00:10:40,879 app on it, and you'd have like maybe two or 208 00:10:40,879 --> 00:10:44,399 three or four vms, right, and whether they were local 209 00:10:44,519 --> 00:10:47,879 on your machine or hosted somewhere like internally at your 210 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,200 company didn't really matter. So what I like to think 211 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,639 of when I think about Microsoft dev Box is that 212 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,120 but based in the cloud. Uh, there's a whole lot 213 00:10:58,159 --> 00:11:00,240 of other things that come for the ride as well. 214 00:11:00,279 --> 00:11:03,080 But I think if you're if you've been developing for 215 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,200 a while, you remember remoting into VMS to do your 216 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,600 developer work. Sure, sure, yeah, so just think of it 217 00:11:09,639 --> 00:11:12,480 as that, but you get access to a bunch of 218 00:11:12,519 --> 00:11:14,159 other stuff, and I'm as we'll talk about some of 219 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:15,279 that throughout this conversation. 220 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of nice to have a dedicated machine 221 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,679 for dev that you can access anywhere. Anytime you have 222 00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:25,120 to reinstall Windows, anytime you have to get a new 223 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,960 laptop or whatever. It's it's just another thing that you 224 00:11:30,039 --> 00:11:32,919 have to install all this stuff. Yeah, I mean third 225 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,559 party tools, everything I've you. 226 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 3: Know, I've switched jobs a few times. I've switched jobs 227 00:11:37,879 --> 00:11:39,759 since the last time I spoke with you folks, Right, 228 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:44,200 so creating a like getting the machine to your happy 229 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,759 place can be challenging. It's gotten a lot better, right Like, 230 00:11:47,799 --> 00:11:51,080 there are things like wind get, DSc and all sorts 231 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,240 of cool things to be able to get you to 232 00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:56,320 where you want. But you still got to do all 233 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,039 the Windows updates, make sure all the software is installed, 234 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,159 make sure you're setupnd like, this is something that you know. 235 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,480 It can take days, if not weeks. Yeah, no for 236 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:07,879 non sophisticated teams to do. 237 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,799 Speaker 2: Right start organizations where they brought a new developer and 238 00:12:10,919 --> 00:12:12,480 it was two weeks before they could check in a 239 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,200 piece of code. 240 00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. 241 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 3: And with dev box, the goal is to kind of 242 00:12:16,759 --> 00:12:19,639 streamline that, like in a self service manner. So, for instance, 243 00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:21,559 I need dev box. There's a developer portal that I 244 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,279 can go to. I literally click create dev box with 245 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,159 some specifications that are defined by my team, and how 246 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,639 over long it takes to provision that resource. I'm able 247 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,279 to then connect to it via the Windows app via 248 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,559 Bastion and the browser via RDP. 249 00:12:36,879 --> 00:12:39,639 Speaker 1: You just said it, You said it. The Windows app 250 00:12:39,639 --> 00:12:46,120 probably the most ubiquitous and mysterious and non specific term 251 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,559 for a new product. Sure, the Windows App. Yeah, now, 252 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,159 I kind of think of this as just like an 253 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:54,120 RDP client. 254 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 3: It's similar, right, So I think what's cool about it 255 00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:01,639 is that it gives you in the RDP client, it 256 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:05,440 gives you a lot of flexibility. But it's it's a 257 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,840 bit behind the times, Like I don't remember when the 258 00:13:08,159 --> 00:13:10,080 like the last time the UI for it was was 259 00:13:10,159 --> 00:13:14,200 updated for it. Yes, but what the Windows app does 260 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,960 It provides basically a single point of entry for all 261 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,960 of your quote unquote like remote things. So like if 262 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,919 you have other VDI services that you might take advantage of, 263 00:13:25,039 --> 00:13:27,879 like Windows sixty five or as your virtual desktop, you 264 00:13:27,879 --> 00:13:30,159 can connect to those it also you can run it 265 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:31,919 on other platforms, not just Windows. 266 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:32,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. 267 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 3: So I think it's one of those things where you know, 268 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,720 it's it's bringing a similar concept but to a new world. 269 00:13:38,799 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: I guess you could say, and is it more integrated 270 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,240 with Windows? I guess what I'm saying, is there more 271 00:13:44,279 --> 00:13:47,399 stuff that you can do through the Windows app that 272 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,159 you can't do through an RDP client. 273 00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 3: I think it's a it's a bit it's definitely more straightforward, right, 274 00:13:54,039 --> 00:13:56,960 Like you can also create these things through dev hoome, 275 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,159 which connects to Windows App. Uh, you know it it's 276 00:14:00,159 --> 00:14:02,480 one of those things where it just gives you a 277 00:14:02,519 --> 00:14:05,720 better pane of glass. It's also thinking. So what was 278 00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:07,960 it called RDC man does it do you folks? 279 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: Remember that where you. 280 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 3: Can manage like a bunch of them. 281 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:11,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, to day. 282 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,399 Speaker 3: So like for instance, the Windows App, regardless of what 283 00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:18,799 sort of service it is, it's all available for you 284 00:14:18,799 --> 00:14:20,519 in one single pane of glass too. So if you 285 00:14:20,559 --> 00:14:23,639 have like five or six step boxes, it's literally just 286 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,039 a grid or a card system and you can connect 287 00:14:26,039 --> 00:14:29,200 to them, you can manage them, you can change settings. 288 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,879 Speaker 1: For them, so it's not just a drop down correct. 289 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 3: Where you put in like an arbitrary IP address right 290 00:14:35,399 --> 00:14:38,240 or if you're fancy a host name right. You can 291 00:14:38,279 --> 00:14:39,720 also do things like you could do this in our 292 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,799 in like the traditional like RDP tool as well, but 293 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,200 can figure like multi moder support and in other things 294 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,200 just to make your life as a developer a bit better. 295 00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:50,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, all right, so all of this, and this 296 00:14:50,879 --> 00:14:54,399 is different from Windows Terminal, which is more about PowerShell 297 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,440 and SSH yeah and that kind of thing. This is, 298 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,080 I mean, RDP is one of the things that Windows 299 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,000 app does, yes, but it does a bunch of other 300 00:15:04,039 --> 00:15:07,159 things as well, it's about all to do with remote connections, yep. 301 00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:08,279 Speaker 1: So what else does it do? 302 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:09,879 Speaker 3: What else is Windows app do? Or what else is 303 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:10,360 death box do? 304 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:10,639 Speaker 2: Yeah? 305 00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:12,919 Speaker 1: What else does Windows app do? And then we'll get 306 00:15:12,919 --> 00:15:13,639 back to debt box. 307 00:15:14,519 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, So like being able to I think one of 308 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,480 the things that's also interesting is just the ability to 309 00:15:22,519 --> 00:15:25,639 create groups, so like you can specify like a these 310 00:15:25,639 --> 00:15:28,200 are the specific Basically, just think of it as a 311 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:33,679 management utility for remote for remote connections, Carl. So it's 312 00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:36,279 you know, and it sinks with all of the other 313 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,480 like developer productivity services that exist for Windows, like you know, 314 00:15:40,559 --> 00:15:44,360 Richard mentioned terminal, there's also dev home, there's also dev drive, 315 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,799 so all these things are kind of seamlessly connected and 316 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,080 kind of managed by the looking of team. 317 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:48,519 Speaker 1: All right. 318 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:52,159 Speaker 2: So yeah, and it's also available on all the platforms 319 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,200 Like rdpm app was only for Windows, but wind app 320 00:15:55,279 --> 00:15:58,200 is on a Mac and Android and you name it. 321 00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe, yeah, believe it's I believe it's. Yeah, 322 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,759 it's available for Android, iPhone, Windows. I'm not sure if 323 00:16:06,759 --> 00:16:09,519 there's a Linux client, so don't don't quote me on that. 324 00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:13,200 But again, it just gives you the ability also like 325 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,559 web browser stuff too, Like you could do it via 326 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,080 like using Bastion in the browser, which is which is 327 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,159 a pretty cool thing to Oh and I just looked 328 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,960 at the website metaquest VR headset. If you want to 329 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:24,360 do that. 330 00:16:24,279 --> 00:16:27,559 Speaker 2: Too, that's something you want to do, Okay. I mean 331 00:16:27,559 --> 00:16:29,679 I'm also looking at this from a security perspective that 332 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,960 now I don't if I got a work from Homer, 333 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,039 I don't have to have them have a whole deb 334 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,919 environment on their machine anymore. They just they only need 335 00:16:37,919 --> 00:16:40,279 a front end basically to call into a dev box 336 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,200 that I have control over. 337 00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:41,559 Speaker 1: Yeah. 338 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 3: I think one of the things too, would be helpful 339 00:16:43,519 --> 00:16:46,639 to talk about is like who are the different kind 340 00:16:46,679 --> 00:16:49,720 of customers for dev box? Sure, because I think that 341 00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:52,279 there's some value there. Like the end customer obviously is 342 00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:54,960 the developer who's using the portal to create these things, right, 343 00:16:55,399 --> 00:16:59,039 But if you're an organization, more than likely you just 344 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,559 don't give developers like, hey, here you go, just go 345 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,039 and create this thing and install whatever software on there 346 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,920 and all of that sort of stuff. Like there's some 347 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,799 management to it, right, So if you're in it, or 348 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:14,039 if you're in OPS or quote unquote platform engineering, like 349 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,359 the ability to put these guardrails on these systems to 350 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,359 be able to say, oh, we have connected to intunes, 351 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,319 so we have endpoint security, like that's provided by default, 352 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,680 the ability to you know, configure network isolations, so like 353 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,640 these particular dev boxes don't have access to certain resources, right. 354 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,680 Also there's some cool things around like not being able 355 00:17:35,759 --> 00:17:39,400 to like take screenshots of dev box, which is kind 356 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,680 of a which is an interesting thing as well, for 357 00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:44,440 like the extra level of security, right, So like that's 358 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:49,240 like the platform like OPS Systems administrator sort of lens, right, 359 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,640 and then you have like this developer lead lens. Like 360 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,279 think about it like this, Like I'm a developer lead, 361 00:17:54,319 --> 00:17:57,039 I'm a manager. You know, we have four or five 362 00:17:57,079 --> 00:17:59,480 different projects that we're running at any particular point in time, 363 00:17:59,519 --> 00:18:02,000 and I need to kind of ensure that my developers 364 00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:06,319 are delivering code as quickly as possible and as efficiently 365 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,440 as possible. So the ability to define the environments that 366 00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:14,559 these that these developers are creating is really valuable too. 367 00:18:14,839 --> 00:18:18,000 So taking advantage of things like customization, so like hey, 368 00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:21,359 maybe I want this suite of software on the machine. 369 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,119 Right when we get going, I can create base images 370 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,279 off of that I can then type into things like 371 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,640 making sure that I have the latest extensions and sold 372 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,039 for vs code or visual Studio, making sure that caching 373 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,519 is set up, like all of those things are done 374 00:18:35,559 --> 00:18:37,960 for me as well with dev box. And then obviously 375 00:18:38,039 --> 00:18:41,039 is the end user, Like I literally choose my project 376 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:43,359 that I want, It shows me what the SKU is 377 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:44,880 going to be. It shows me where the region is 378 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,079 going to be of that particular remote compute, and then 379 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,359 I could create and then after spread time, I can 380 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,400 just connect to it and then it's like it was there, 381 00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:53,599 which I think is pretty cool. 382 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: Right. So I think the question that's on a lot 383 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,319 of people's mind is, yeah, what's the difference between I mean, 384 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,440 is the f box and Windows App going to now 385 00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:07,359 be applicable for environments other than developer environments that are 386 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,720 sort of just like client vms and the cloud. Like 387 00:19:09,759 --> 00:19:12,160 we have an Azure now that we use RDP for 388 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,200 and by the same the inversion of that is, would 389 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,519 we maybe use the Windows app to connect to our 390 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:19,960 existing vms. Yeah. 391 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,519 Speaker 3: So Windows App actually supports like all of the different 392 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,720 remote services for like a remote desktop, So it supports 393 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,960 azrovirsual desktop, it supports dev box, Windows sixty five Remote 394 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,880 PC remote desktop services, right, So it supports all of 395 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,799 those things already the Windows app does. 396 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: So it's really the new RDP client that we should 397 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:39,160 think about using. 398 00:19:39,279 --> 00:19:41,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, think about it like that, right, with a 399 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,359 with a with a more fluent looking UI and a 400 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,000 management utility built into it instead, like you said, just 401 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:47,720 want to drop down? 402 00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:48,079 Speaker 2: Cool? 403 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 404 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 2: The whole point here is I don't have to ask 405 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,759 the dev to set up their machine and make sure 406 00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:55,400 they actually did it, right. It's that I specify a 407 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,680 manifest of what's going to be on that machine, yep, 408 00:19:58,759 --> 00:20:00,839 and they when they when we go to make an 409 00:20:00,839 --> 00:20:02,680 instance for them, it stands it up with all the 410 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:03,240 right stuff. 411 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,519 Speaker 3: Well, think about it like this, Richard, Like you mentioned 412 00:20:05,559 --> 00:20:07,279 you were talking to a client and it took them 413 00:20:07,319 --> 00:20:09,720 two weeks to stand up an environment, yeah, right, before 414 00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:13,279 they could commit code. Like I mean, let's just call 415 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:14,039 it is what it is. 416 00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 2: Like. 417 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,559 Speaker 3: That's like money spent on somebody who's not doing the 418 00:20:17,599 --> 00:20:18,599 thing you hired them to do. 419 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:21,079 Speaker 2: Totally and very frustrated, right. 420 00:20:20,759 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 3: Like, yeah, exactly. I can imagine. I've been in situations 421 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,680 where it took a couple of days and that was frustrating. 422 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,400 I couldn't imagine starting a new job. You're excited starting 423 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,720 a new job. You're getting like like I'm going to 424 00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:32,519 commit some code, I'm gonna do this thing, and then like, oh, 425 00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:33,880 by the way, it's going to take two weeks to 426 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,440 provision an environment for you. 427 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,519 Speaker 2: Now we're we're missing this license. We got to order 428 00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:39,480 it in because it was a physical thing, right, like 429 00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:42,319 I can't just get it online. And as well as 430 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,440 do we have hardware for you? Da da da da da, 431 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:45,799 Like all of that is irrelevant. 432 00:20:45,839 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, and just replace that with what dev box offers, 433 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,240 where it's hey, day one, go to the website. You've 434 00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:54,440 already been set up with access to be able to 435 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,759 create a dev box for these particular projects that you're 436 00:20:56,759 --> 00:20:58,960 going to be working on. We'll walk you through, I'll 437 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,880 show you how to do it. You go there, you 438 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,400 click drop down, you click create, and then when it's done, 439 00:21:04,839 --> 00:21:06,359 you can go and look at all of them, or 440 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,400 you can connect via the Windows app. Again, like you're 441 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,440 taking two weeks and you're taking it into like an hour. 442 00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:11,759 Speaker 2: Yeah. 443 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,319 Speaker 1: What about the first part of my question, which is 444 00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:18,319 is dev box applicable to environments other than developer environments? 445 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,759 Is it good for just setting up client PCs with 446 00:21:20,839 --> 00:21:21,759 installed software. 447 00:21:21,839 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: I think you'd useual as your virtual desktop for that. 448 00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think that there's some value in talking 449 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,119 about like what all the different offerings are. 450 00:21:28,279 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: Ye. 451 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 3: So, like Microsoft provides a few different options in this space, 452 00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:36,759 like this VDI or you know, Virtual Integrade Desktop, I 453 00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:39,000 think is what VDI stands for. But like there's three 454 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,599 big ones. There's Azure Virtual Desktop, there's Windows to sixty five, 455 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,799 and there's dev Box. So you know, all of these 456 00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:47,680 things kind of sit like stand on top of the 457 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,720 same infrastructure, right. I think what's really different among them 458 00:21:50,759 --> 00:21:54,079 is the use case. Right, So if you're connecting to 459 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:59,240 a thin client or you're doing like light productivity services, 460 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,480 like you're just using and Outlook and things like that, 461 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,960 like Azure Virtual Desktop or Windows sixty five is probably 462 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,440 the better option for you. But what dev box provides 463 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,799 is access to more high performance compute, so the be 464 00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:14,720 able to have like sixty four cores or you know 465 00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:15,960 a whole bunch of ram. 466 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,039 Speaker 1: Okay, what I have is I have a virtual machine 467 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,200 in Azure right now, but I set up as a 468 00:22:20,279 --> 00:22:25,759 VM with Windows Desktop right client Windows ten and you 469 00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:28,599 know you pay for use right, and I have that 470 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,200 up there to do my various videos that I do. 471 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,000 But I think what I hear you saying is that 472 00:22:34,319 --> 00:22:36,680 you're going to pay a lot more in that situation 473 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,640 then you would pay to access the same kind of 474 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,920 resources like the cores and the RAM and all that 475 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,279 stuff that you would get an Azure dev box. Am 476 00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:48,839 I reading that correctly? Yeah? 477 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 3: So, like Microsoft dev Box more than likely is less 478 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,559 expensive than just hosting a VM and Azure and then 479 00:22:56,559 --> 00:22:59,079 opening the RDP port and then doing it like that. 480 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:00,599 Speaker 2: Yeah. 481 00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 3: Also, like I don't know if you have gone down 482 00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:06,240 the path of like making sure that that OS is 483 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,200 up to date and most secure. Yeah, but yeah, like 484 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,400 it's just one of those things. Yeah, Like it's one 485 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,599 of those things where it's kind of done for you 486 00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:17,359 with depth box, right, Like it it's a managed service 487 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,039 for developer compute, which I think is pretty cool. 488 00:23:20,079 --> 00:23:22,279 Speaker 1: And when you go in with it, is it just 489 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,200 like accessing a Windows desktop? 490 00:23:24,519 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? 491 00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: I mean, are you accessing a Windows desktop? Yeah? 492 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 3: So yeah, So, I mean the experience with the Windows 493 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,799 app is very similar to RDP, right, Like a window 494 00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:36,559 pops up and you see the desktop and all of that, 495 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,079 And like I said, it supports Bastion and the browser. 496 00:23:39,599 --> 00:23:42,839 So like if you wanted to connect to your remote 497 00:23:42,839 --> 00:23:44,920 compute via the browser, you have the ability to do 498 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,519 that too. Obviously, the experience has a bit different versus 499 00:23:49,599 --> 00:23:52,079 your connecting via the browser versus just connecting via the 500 00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:55,920 Windows app. But it's one of those things where it 501 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,880 just it makes a ton more sense to use the 502 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,319 infrastructure and you the managed service then kind of rolling 503 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,680 it yourself, depending what your use case is. 504 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well in my case, it's going to save 505 00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:09,400 a lot of money, and that's very compelling. Like you 506 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,319 wouldn't think, Okay, it's just a VM, but now you're 507 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,240 you're talking about a lot more resources for a lot 508 00:24:16,319 --> 00:24:16,880 less money. 509 00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know that. It's like like the idea 510 00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:21,759 of like talking about pricing is is probably scary, but 511 00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:24,319 I'll just I'll just throw this out there right, Like 512 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,079 I'm looking at the pricing calculator for debt for dev boxes. 513 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,920 I was curious, So if you want thirty two CPUs 514 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,640 ordering twenty gigs a RAM and two Terribyte hard drive, 515 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,200 the max monthly price is six hundred and twenty eight 516 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:39,720 dollars a month. 517 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and you probably. 518 00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:45,279 Speaker 3: Don't need that but that's that's my point. If you want, 519 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,480 if you want something that's a bit more manageable, like 520 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:50,880 most of it is around like the one thirty to 521 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,559 two fifty price point per month. 522 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: You know, really this gets huge is if you're not 523 00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:56,720 working on it every day, right, yes, right right, Like 524 00:24:56,759 --> 00:24:58,920 if you've got a debt, you don't want to license 525 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,599 a copy of studio and in all that to a manager 526 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,920 who fires it up once a week, the fact that 527 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,599 they can run it for a day, yeah and then 528 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:07,519 be done. 529 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: Right now, in my VM, I only turned on when 530 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,680 I use it because if it's just sitting there running, 531 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,319 you're just throwing money down the tooth to throwing money. 532 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, and like there's also like cost like 533 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,240 savings like options built into dev box too, So like 534 00:25:22,319 --> 00:25:25,400 when you so when you create a dev box, you 535 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,079 have the ability to specify like if you want it 536 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,079 to auto hibernate, so if it hasn't been used for 537 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,400 sixty minutes, shut it down, right, if you want to 538 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,359 shut down at particular time, like maybe seven seven at 539 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,680 night and shut it down, it shuts it down for you. 540 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,960 So it's one of those things where it's not continuously 541 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:44,319 running unless you want it to continuously. 542 00:25:43,759 --> 00:25:47,079 Speaker 2: Run, right, and you are charged by the hour. Right, Yes, 543 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,720 so you know the two hundred and fifty dollars a 544 00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:52,880 max month price is based on three bucks an hour. 545 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, in this particular case, it's a five ninety 546 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,400 six right for that. Yeah, So, like I mean more 547 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,240 than likely if you're working forty hours a week, you know, 548 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:04,640 forty times six. 549 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,039 Speaker 2: It's you're going to hit the max. 550 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:06,319 Speaker 1: Right. 551 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 2: That's the whole thing is they've capped it. Yeah, well 552 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:08,839 below that. 553 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 3: But it's one of those things too where it's just 554 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,599 all of these different experiences that come with it as well, right, 555 00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:18,319 Like you know, the customization's thing, Like we'll talk about 556 00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:21,279 that for a second, like being able to define, like 557 00:26:21,319 --> 00:26:25,279 with Yamil, like all of the things that you want 558 00:26:25,319 --> 00:26:27,880 installing that machine when it gets created, and you can 559 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,839 specify that in a get up repo. You can point 560 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,559 dev box their dev center, which is the underlying you know, 561 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,640 resource and Azure to that get up repo. So whenever 562 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,799 a developer in that particular project creates something, all that 563 00:26:40,839 --> 00:26:43,759 stuff is there. That's cool, right, So it's just yeah, 564 00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:47,400 like again, these things are just done for you instead 565 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,839 of you having to kind of do all that work 566 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,759 yourself and it's great and experiences like you know, maybe 567 00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:56,200 you have Like I was talking about this with somebody 568 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,839 at a conference a couple of months ago, Like he 569 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,880 had a VM on a machine that like had an 570 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,759 old wind like dot net framework app. And I've been there, 571 00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:06,799 like I had to remote into a VM that when 572 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,079 like dott net one dot one on it, for instance. 573 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,079 And like with dev box, you can just have a 574 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,200 dev box that just lives in the world that has 575 00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:19,640 you know, visual Zuo twenty nineteen and you know, a 576 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,839 dot net framework four dot seven app, and you can 577 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,079 just leave that there and we need to make changes 578 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,799 to it. You remote into it, you do your thing, 579 00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:28,720 and then you get rid of it. And these things 580 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,759 are ephemeral too, like they don't have to live forever. 581 00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:33,920 Like you can do your work. Maybe you're doing a 582 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,799 maybe you're reviewing a PR. You log in, you get 583 00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:40,839 the code down, you review the PR, everything works, and 584 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,759 then when you're done, you just get rid of the thing. 585 00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 2: I wonder if you build this per project. 586 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 3: Yes, well that's the whole. That's one of the underlying 587 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,519 core concepts of dev box. So like there's dev Center, 588 00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:54,759 which is the thing that holds like the underlying resources 589 00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:57,279 for dev box, as well as Azur diploma environments, which 590 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,559 is the other thing that exists in this space. That's 591 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,440 like creating and provisioning like environments in Azure. Like dev 592 00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:07,000 environment says numbers, what have you? So at the dev 593 00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:09,440 center level, a dev center can have x amount of 594 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,200 projects and those projects you define them as basically a 595 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,960 combination of two things image like what the actual environment 596 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,759 is and networking. Right, and you have the flexibility to 597 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,119 you know, bring your own networking configurations like your own 598 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,279 v net, your own network connection, or you can just 599 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,519 check a box says hey, just post this as somewhere 600 00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:30,559 in Microsoft's network that's close to. 601 00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 2: Where I live. Right, Very cool, But you also want 602 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,799 to be close to company resources for example, like there's 603 00:28:35,799 --> 00:28:37,880 a bunch of a bunch of interesting questions there again 604 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,200 that mostly ad men would care about more than the 605 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,559 dev They just wanted to work. Yeah, what about Actually 606 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,079 let's take a break, and then I want to talk 607 00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:47,160 about licensing because it's really romantic. 608 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: Nice. We'll be right back. You know, dot net six 609 00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:55,799 has officially reached the end of support and now is 610 00:28:55,839 --> 00:28:59,200 the time to upgrade dot net eight is well supported 611 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,599 on aw Learn more at AWS dot Amazon dot com, 612 00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:09,319 slash dot net and we're back. It's dot netrock some 613 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,880 Carl Franklin. It's my friend Richard Campbell, Hey, and our 614 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,160 friend Isaac Levin, and we're talking about Microsoft dev Box. 615 00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,240 And I'll tell you what, man, this sounds so cool. 616 00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:20,559 I mean I kind of thought it was okay, yeah, 617 00:29:20,599 --> 00:29:25,200 another way to access VMS, but no, it's really cool. Yeah, 618 00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:30,799 it's it's accessing large amounts of RAM and compute. If 619 00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:33,039 you want to, you turn it on, you do your thing, 620 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:36,839 you turn it off, You provision easily and create on 621 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,039 a project by project basis is one of the things 622 00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:42,160 that Richard was just asking about and Isaac was just 623 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,599 about to go into some details about that. 624 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, like you wanted to talk about licensing, right, licensing? 625 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like how many copies of visual studio I 626 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:50,720 need to own here? 627 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:54,599 Speaker 3: M Well, so that's so with visual studios specific Like 628 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,880 visual studio licensing is how it's always going to be. 629 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,599 It's per user, per month, right, right, So like if 630 00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:03,200 you have a dev box, if you have six dev boxes, 631 00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:05,240 it's just one visual stuio license. 632 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,519 Speaker 2: Interesting for as long as it's one user. 633 00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: Correct. 634 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, so when you log into visual Studio for the 635 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,480 first time, like it'll ask for your MSA, like your 636 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,160 Microsoft identity or your Gettel identity or whatever. Like, I mean, 637 00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:20,720 there's nothing different than having like three or four different 638 00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:22,480 work machines, right. 639 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's only one person work on at a time. 640 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,880 But it doesn't help me for that manager that occasionally 641 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,559 wants access to dev tools, I still have to get 642 00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:32,039 a full license for them, correct, Yeah, although I'm not 643 00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:34,319 consuming dev box resources when it's not running. 644 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, like this and one thing to 645 00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:38,599 maybe call out as well is that this is like 646 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,519 full blown Windows. So it's got WSL, right, it's got 647 00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:47,599 hypervisor support, it's got Docker support. Like, it's not like 648 00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:51,200 other services that you know, I'll just say it, like 649 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,240 maybe it's like vs code in the browser that you 650 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,839 can access, which is cool. But like if you're building 651 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,279 apps and you want to build it in a Windows environment, 652 00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:00,640 but maybe you need to hop down to WSL to 653 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,559 do a couple of things or whatever, like you have 654 00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:03,519 that flexibility to do. 655 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,279 Speaker 2: So, right, right, not things you would normally do. Certainly, 656 00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:10,119 I think you want to do an Azure desktop or 657 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,480 an Attrir virtual desktop talk to me about GitHub code 658 00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:17,359 spaces because are these kind of the same thing. 659 00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:20,799 Speaker 3: So it's it's funny because I kind of I go 660 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,799 back and forth with this a little bit, but I 661 00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:26,359 think at the end of the day, they both satisfy 662 00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:29,640 a specific use case. I'm a developer. I want to 663 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,880 be able to build my app, but I don't want 664 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,720 to do it on my machine. I want to take 665 00:31:33,759 --> 00:31:35,440 advantage of remote services to. 666 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: Do that, right, right. 667 00:31:37,079 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 3: The primary difference between code spaces and dev box is 668 00:31:40,759 --> 00:31:43,519 what I just said. So code spaces it's kind of 669 00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:46,799 vs code in the browser. You're remoting into a Linux 670 00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:51,279 container and you're doing all that stuff. Great experience, especially 671 00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:53,880 if you come from a VS code background for sure, 672 00:31:54,119 --> 00:31:56,279 so like you know the tools. But like if you're 673 00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:59,440 a Windows developer and you've been building things in Windows 674 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,640 and you can use visual Studio and you've been doing 675 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,480 all these things or even writer, like, it's just a 676 00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:07,920 better experience for that person to use debt box because 677 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,839 it is fully managed Windows and you. 678 00:32:09,799 --> 00:32:12,599 Speaker 2: Like IDEs like that's why you're in Rider or studio 679 00:32:12,759 --> 00:32:15,599 because you see the ID is valuable to you. Yeah, 680 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,240 and where VS code is very much more a role 681 00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:19,599 of your own Yeah. 682 00:32:19,359 --> 00:32:22,119 Speaker 3: And even like let's just just throw on the other 683 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,119 side too, Like maybe you are a developer who takes 684 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,880 advantage of something like dev containers, which is kind of 685 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,160 like being able to create like a singular environment for 686 00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:34,079 your app inside of visual CEO code. Like that's what 687 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,759 a lot of code spaces and some of these other 688 00:32:35,759 --> 00:32:38,160 tools are kind of built on top of or are 689 00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:42,240 used in insul it in in in help with that, 690 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,880 like you can do that in Windows as well in 691 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,039 dev box. So it's just a it's a more end 692 00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:52,200 to end full experience. You don't have subsets of different 693 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,960 developer experiences. You can do everything. The only thing is 694 00:32:56,359 --> 00:32:58,880 it's Windows. It's Windows. So like if you come from 695 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,279 a developer team that they don't use Windows, maybe they 696 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,960 use mac os or maybe they use Linux, Like it's 697 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,279 a different experience for them. 698 00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:08,359 Speaker 2: Sure, but it doesn't sound like they won't work together too. 699 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,319 That If I've got folks that would prefer to work 700 00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:12,799 in that Linux space, they can work in code spaces 701 00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:15,039 and they'll be fine checking in code into the same 702 00:33:15,079 --> 00:33:17,759 repository and the same set of actions kicking off Like 703 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,839 all that's fine. And for those who prefer a Windows 704 00:33:20,839 --> 00:33:22,960 and studio experience. They're in dev box yep. 705 00:33:23,279 --> 00:33:25,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I couldn't have said it better myself. 706 00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 2: Okay, well, I appreciate it like that. Bring the tools 707 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,559 where people are right, don't try and and scram square 708 00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:35,400 peg square peg in a round hole like nobody's happy 709 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,920 when you do that. And either way, I think I 710 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,319 think the studio I've always found it amusing. Like visual 711 00:33:42,359 --> 00:33:44,640 studio me seems like the perfect beginner's tool in the 712 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,599 fact that everything is already there, except that it looks 713 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,160 like a cockpit of a seven forty seve when you 714 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,920 open it up, like it intimidates everyone. Even I've been 715 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,960 used the flipping things as it was invented, it's still 716 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,480 scares me. Where studio, you know, code seems way more approachable, 717 00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:01,319 But it's really not that easy to learn on either 718 00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:03,319 because you've got to pull all the pieces together. You've 719 00:34:03,319 --> 00:34:06,759 got to make decisions you're not qualified to make. Early on, I. 720 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 3: Was having a conversation and I love visual coeo code. 721 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,440 I want to say that before I make this next statement. 722 00:34:12,119 --> 00:34:13,920 I was having a conversation with somebody and they were 723 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,239 talking about like how loaded visual studio is, for instance, right, 724 00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:19,239 and they were talking about how Vigius code is so 725 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,119 lightweight and whatever, and I asked them, like, oh, so, 726 00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:24,480 what's it like without extensions in Vision CEO code And 727 00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:25,960 they said, what do you mean, I have a bunch 728 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,719 of extensions. I'm like, so you should open up your 729 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,199 task manager and look at the RAM usage for VS code. 730 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 2: Then how lightweight is it? 731 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:33,519 Speaker 1: Now? Yeah? 732 00:34:33,559 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 3: Exactly right. So I mean again, these are great tools, 733 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,760 and they and they solve very specific purposes and they're 734 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,800 all awesome, But like, let's not kid ourselves that, like 735 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,199 Visual Studio code can get just as big as Visual Studio. 736 00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:49,119 Speaker 2: But it's a difference between having a knife drawer and 737 00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:51,840 a Swiss Army knife. Right, like the Night Story, you 738 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,480 do get to pick which ones you put in the 739 00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:55,960 Swiss Army knife, they're all there, and the studio is 740 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,880 a Swiss Army knife. There's stuff in there you don't need. 741 00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:01,599 Also all the stuff you do need. 742 00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I've I really still love visual studio 743 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,159 and I have my way of working and my layouts 744 00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:12,960 and stuff, and I don't find it a you know, 745 00:35:13,079 --> 00:35:15,360 a barrier to working at all, and I don't find 746 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,679 it gets in the way. Then again, I have an 747 00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:20,280 I nine with sixty four gigs of rice. 748 00:35:20,639 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 2: And you look at the available sex for a dev box, 749 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,320 there's a reason. 750 00:35:26,119 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 3: Well, I think too, Like, I think it just depends 751 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,360 on what kind of developer you probably started as, right, 752 00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:32,679 Like if you were a developer and maybe you were 753 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,599 building client apps, like yeah, like Visual Studio is great 754 00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:39,800 for building client aps. Still is great for building client apps. 755 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,599 And I think if you're maybe of a younger generation 756 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,159 where you have been building more like web first apps, yep, 757 00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:48,440 Like you're like, Okay, why do I need all of 758 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,199 this popum circumstance of Visual Studio if I'm just building 759 00:35:51,199 --> 00:35:51,599 a web app? 760 00:35:51,639 --> 00:35:54,039 Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, so that's Yeah, it's a lot of ceremony 761 00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:57,880 that isn't necessary for them until you teach them the debugger. Like, 762 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,440 if you're gonna win anybody over on visual Studio, it's 763 00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:05,480 experienced this debugging experience. And now when differently, when. 764 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,679 Speaker 1: If Blazer is your web framework of choice, the debugger 765 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,760 is just absolutely amazing. 766 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 2: It's magic. Yeah. 767 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, But I will say that the Visual Stuio code 768 00:36:15,039 --> 00:36:17,360 experience for dot net is getting better and better every day, 769 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,559 So let's let's let's not throw that away. 770 00:36:20,599 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 2: Everybody's making make trying to make tools better, and it's 771 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,280 like again it's I'm not hating on it. You can 772 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,760 all work together, work a way you like. 773 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that Yeah, I'm not hating on code either. 774 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,760 I just know I do. I just do. It's comfortable and. 775 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 3: That kind of like if thinking about dev box, like 776 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,800 if you if thinking about like the different types of 777 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,559 dot net developers that are right, Like you know, you 778 00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:41,719 might have a developer that's building WPF apps, or maybe 779 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,280 they're building Maui apps, or maybe they're building something with 780 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,119 a spire, right, like you know, those in my brain 781 00:36:47,199 --> 00:36:50,480 are completely different workloads. So if I had one singular 782 00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:54,000 developer environment, I would have to install every workload for 783 00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:56,199 visual Studio to be able to do that work. And 784 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,840 that's kind of a bummer, right. What a better solution is, 785 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,960 at least to me, is you have a dev box 786 00:37:02,119 --> 00:37:05,079 for this project that's a Maui app, this project that's 787 00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:07,800 in a spire app, this project I need Docker and 788 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,920 a bunch of other stuff, and then that way, like 789 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,440 all of your stuff is like in this nice little 790 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,320 containerized like world. You don't have to mess with stuff 791 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,199 to get like oh I have to go and switch 792 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,400 over to this project app, and I have to do 793 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:21,880 these things. 794 00:37:22,199 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 2: I'm thinking in terms of five years down the road 795 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,280 where you still got a client running V two and 796 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,800 you're on V six yep, and you can have a 797 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,320 dev environment for working in V two. Yeah. 798 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 3: And one thing too. I was thinking about this the 799 00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:37,960 other day, Like I used to work help desk when 800 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,480 I was in college, and they this is back in 801 00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:42,480 the back in the crazy days when there was people 802 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:43,880 whose job it was the test. 803 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: Products weird answer phones for that matter. 804 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 3: Right, And I remember, like I was having a conversation 805 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,000 with one of these QA folks and she was telling 806 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,960 me about like how she needed a VM that had 807 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,719 different versions of browsers on them, right, because you build 808 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,599 an app for the web and all of a sudden 809 00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:02,960 this st offs working on the latest version of Edge 810 00:38:03,039 --> 00:38:06,000 or the latest version of Firefox or whatever. Right, And 811 00:38:06,039 --> 00:38:07,760 I was thinking about, like, that's a pretty good use 812 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,679 case for dev box too, where it's like, hey, I 813 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,119 need a very specific version of this browser. It's available 814 00:38:13,119 --> 00:38:15,159 to me, said me. Having to figure out how to 815 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,559 uninstall and then get an installer for an old version 816 00:38:18,679 --> 00:38:19,920 and then do all of that dance. 817 00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 2: I know, this isolating my project and possibly even isolating 818 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,760 my version number. I mean, you want to retire those 819 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,760 old VERSI numbers. But sooner or later you get a customer, 820 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,119 you know, like the US Navy is still running Windows XP. 821 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,960 You get a customer says, no, we will be running 822 00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:35,760 this until it wouldn't have time. 823 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,280 Speaker 1: They wouldn't do that, Richard, would me. 824 00:38:37,639 --> 00:38:40,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's okay because they're more than willing to 825 00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:41,239 pay the support charge. 826 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,039 Speaker 2: Sure, man, The money's not the issue now. The question 827 00:38:44,199 --> 00:38:46,159 is what do you got to do to not make 828 00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:48,639 yourself insane? Right? Like, how do you keep taking care 829 00:38:48,639 --> 00:38:50,639 of it? And this seems like a really great way 830 00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:53,719 to encapsulate those old versions, so you're right back in 831 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,440 the environment meant for that version. 832 00:38:56,679 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. 833 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 3: One of my favorite things to do at conferences if 834 00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:03,559 somebody from like the runtime team or the dot net 835 00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:07,119 team is there, just talking to them about like all 836 00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:09,480 of their fault Like Jared Parsons is a really good 837 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:10,719 person to listen. 838 00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 2: To, right, that guy's been through it all, right. 839 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 3: I'll just sit there and he'll be saying things that 840 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,199 I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about, 841 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,079 but it's fascinating, absolutely fascinating. 842 00:39:20,519 --> 00:39:22,760 Speaker 2: But yeah, these are the folks that are dealing with 843 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,599 all of these different kinds of customers. Yeah, you know, 844 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,000 and they've got you name it, like. 845 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was a don At KOMF there 846 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,239 was somebody on the Visual Studio team who did a 847 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,440 session about dev box, specifically using dev box to like 848 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,000 build different versions of Visual Studio because you know, twenty nineteen. 849 00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:43,079 If I need to do some work in twenty nineteen, 850 00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:45,360 like I don't want to have twenty nineteen and twenty 851 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,320 twenty two and it's all on my machine, especially like 852 00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:51,679 the dev versions of them, which anybody who has got 853 00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:54,000 any insight into how Visual Studio is built, like, it 854 00:39:54,079 --> 00:39:56,800 is not a it is NI trivial process, no huge. 855 00:39:57,079 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 856 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,519 Speaker 3: So being able to kind of again segment out these 857 00:39:59,519 --> 00:40:00,400 things is cool. 858 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is interesting, and it is good not to 859 00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:07,360 install it on workstations when you don't have to, like yeah, yeah, yeah. 860 00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:09,159 Pretty quickly we get to a place where it's like, 861 00:40:09,199 --> 00:40:11,719 now you shouldn't have a local copy every time you 862 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,559 start a project used to light up a dev box 863 00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:13,840 on this. 864 00:40:14,039 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, especially if all the licensing works right. So, like 865 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,440 when you create a dev box, you already tied into 866 00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:21,239 like the licensing that you have because it's an Azure, right, 867 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,199 and you're taking advantage of the licensing that you have 868 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,039 for whatever tools you're installing on there. 869 00:40:26,119 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 1: Right. 870 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,159 Speaker 3: So again, like my question to anybody who is like 871 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,800 why do I want this? Especially if you're work at a 872 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,760 big company, Like why would I want this? It's like, 873 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,239 have you ever had to like manage a VM yourself, 874 00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:42,400 like creating it, updating the software, dealing with it when 875 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,480 they want to roll out patches? Like sounds like a bummer. 876 00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:47,840 Just you have dev box and just just code to 877 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:48,599 your heart's content. 878 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of the platform as a service, software 879 00:40:53,519 --> 00:40:56,039 as a service. Yeah, it's a SaaS pass. 880 00:40:56,159 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 881 00:40:56,639 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, like it's a I mean it yeah, it's but 882 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,360 it's like technically infrastructure's service. 883 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:03,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all three. 884 00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:06,079 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, So I mean let's just call it. Let's 885 00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:09,199 just call it service. It's just a service service. 886 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: I like that. I like it's just a service. 887 00:41:11,639 --> 00:41:12,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, very good. 888 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,519 Speaker 1: Okay, is there anything we haven't really covered? I mean 889 00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:19,960 I'm already sold, and I think anybody who's listening is 890 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,840 already going there. Where do we get it? So? 891 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's crazy because I'll take credit cards over 892 00:41:24,639 --> 00:41:29,559 the phone. So if you wanted to just hand that 893 00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:30,880 over to me, we'll get you set up. 894 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 1: With den box. 895 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 2: Just the price doesn't scare people off, because we were 896 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,039 talking about the maximum monthly price. Yeah, it's build out 897 00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:41,239 by the hour. There's a monthly storage fee, like yeah. 898 00:41:41,039 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 3: And the price that I gave was like for the 899 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,199 most powerful compete you could use, which I mean if 900 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,519 you were if you were to if you were to 901 00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:53,760 build a desktop with thirty two virtual cpuke with thirty 902 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,360 two cores, yeah, one and twenty eight gigs a RAM 903 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,440 and two terribies a hard drive, it would cost you thousands. 904 00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 2: Thousands of dollar. Yeah, yeah for sure. 905 00:42:03,199 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 3: But like like I mentioned, the hourly compute is what 906 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,079 the real number is? 907 00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: You can go. 908 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,679 Speaker 3: I'll make sure there's a note to the pricing calculators. 909 00:42:10,679 --> 00:42:13,599 People could do it themselves, like it's six bucks an hour, 910 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,320 and if you're doing forty hours a week, you know 911 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,440 that's one hundred and sixty hours a year, one hundred 912 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,880 and sixty hours time six Do the quick math, right, 913 00:42:23,199 --> 00:42:24,719 like it caps out around that number. 914 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:25,280 Speaker 2: Yeah right. 915 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: So but for something that's more appropriate for you know, 916 00:42:29,519 --> 00:42:33,960 a developer, maybe thirty two gigs of RAM maybe maybe 917 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,920 even eight CPUs or something like that, eight cores. You know, 918 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,719 you're you're talking what a dollar an hour? 919 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,760 Speaker 3: It's like so like like I said, like I think 920 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,559 I might mention this that the the ACPU thirty two 921 00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:51,400 gigs terabyte hard drive, it maxes out at one ninety five. 922 00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:53,840 It means it's a dollar fifty yeah a month, which 923 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:54,719 is a dollar fifty hour. 924 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. So that's great. 925 00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:59,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean especially when you compare it to like 926 00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:00,280 just running a VM. 927 00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:03,280 Speaker 2: Yep, yes, like yeah, so and if you don't use 928 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,400 it that month, you don't get built any hourly compute. 929 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,960 You just get built a storage correct. 930 00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:11,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, which which is which is another benefit of 931 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,880 using these services, like they just you can turn them 932 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,719 off or you can delete them completely. 933 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 2: Yeah right, you can win. You can just leave them 934 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,280 as a template. You could regenerate when you want it again. 935 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,840 Just make sure you get the files towards somewhere else, 936 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,000 which you're probably paying for. 937 00:43:24,119 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: But can you attach data disks that already exists in Azure. 938 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,199 Speaker 3: If you would do If you could do that, I 939 00:43:29,199 --> 00:43:31,960 would need to look, but it would that would be 940 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,840 a matter if you would probably have to do something 941 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,559 via the Azure c l I. 942 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,360 Speaker 1: Right, because is it actually considered a VM, like can 943 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,159 I because I can do that with vms and the 944 00:43:41,199 --> 00:43:41,679 cl I. 945 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 3: Well, it's it's if you do a lot of digging around, 946 00:43:45,039 --> 00:43:47,639 you can look at some of the primitive resources that exist, 947 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,360 like the NICK and the But like you're not going 948 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,559 to have the ability to have that full level of 949 00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:54,239 management that you could if you were just to create 950 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,719 like a VM scale set or whatever. 951 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: But that might be good, Like I might have all 952 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,480 my tools and all my you know, like I might 953 00:43:59,519 --> 00:44:02,239 have a a stash of code that's on a hard 954 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,719 drive that's not in a repo somewhere, you know. 955 00:44:05,039 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean especially like I mean if you have 956 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,760 like if for instance, maybe you have it like an 957 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,000 Azure Azure blob or as your filestore, like you could 958 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,199 like when you provision the VM or provision the dev box, 959 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,639 you can have a little you could say, hey, run 960 00:44:18,679 --> 00:44:22,199 this Azure CLI task and attaches to my to my PC, 961 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:23,119 attaches this. 962 00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: Data disc external disc. 963 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:24,559 Speaker 2: Right. 964 00:44:24,639 --> 00:44:26,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's something you can definitely do as well, 965 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,039 especially if you have that use case where maybe you 966 00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:31,639 have like share, like maybe you're not fancying you don't 967 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,039 use like private nugat feeds, Like maybe you still ship 968 00:44:34,039 --> 00:44:37,360 around DLLs on servers because that's the thing that people 969 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,119 still do, like being able to link up those things 970 00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:40,800 as well. 971 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:41,280 Speaker 2: What's that? 972 00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:42,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 973 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:44,320 Speaker 2: Very cool. 974 00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:46,079 Speaker 1: Is there anything we missed? 975 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,360 Speaker 3: No, So we talked about like the customization experience, So 976 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,440 you can customize dev box at the project level like 977 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,559 what we were talking about, but also the individual level. 978 00:44:54,599 --> 00:44:57,840 Like maybe I'm a developer and I have very specific tastes, 979 00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:00,760 maybe I want dark theme in Windows, maybe I want 980 00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:03,679 specific settings and windows to be set. I can do 981 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,760 that myself by when I create a dev box, I 982 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,760 can just say use this customization file and that now 983 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:13,719 be attached on top of the team's customization. Also, like 984 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,559 you can define images in this space too, so like 985 00:45:17,079 --> 00:45:20,239 every single time a dev box, like I provision a 986 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,519 new dev box resource, I can basically create an image 987 00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:26,559 from that directly. This could be referenced later. We didn't 988 00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:29,239 really talk about in tune, but I mean that's not 989 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:30,920 super exciting, Like it's. 990 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 2: Just what's the role of intune in this. 991 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,199 Speaker 3: It's it's true like every other device in your I 992 00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:39,639 guess fleet of devices, so you can get the endpoint security. 993 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,559 You can make sure that you have like malware protection, 994 00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:44,960 all that stuff that you would get out of the 995 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,960 box with Intune, even if you wanted to like push 996 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,880 software right right, Like you can do that with dev 997 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,800 box too. It's it's not slim thing. A lot of 998 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,199 folks have asked me, like, okay, so it's completely separate 999 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,559 from like my existing process, right, Like maybe you're an 1000 00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:04,039 IT admin and you've like you live and die by 1001 00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:07,119 in tune, right, and you've been doing all this stuff, like, Okay, 1002 00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:08,960 now is dev box thing I have to learn this 1003 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,800 new dev box nomenclature and way of doing things. No, 1004 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,599 it's a device. You connect to it the same way 1005 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,440 when you built. When you create dev box, it automatically 1006 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,639 as a tier in Tune and from there, like it's 1007 00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:23,119 just a matter of just managing it like you would 1008 00:46:23,159 --> 00:46:24,519 any other device. 1009 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,280 Speaker 1: How about chocolatey. Can we run chocolated scripts? 1010 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:27,760 Speaker 2: Of course? 1011 00:46:28,159 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can run whatever you want. You can run 1012 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,800 win get, you can run Chocolity, you can run uh, 1013 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,199 I don't know Bash scripts and WSL. It's Windows, so 1014 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,360 you can do whatever you want with it. Like, so 1015 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,639 the customization's experience that I was talking about there the 1016 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,400 team of Microsoft is built like a default catalog, which 1017 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,119 is basically like a set of predefined tasks like wind 1018 00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:52,800 get is one, chocolate is one. So that means like 1019 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,920 every h dev box that you create, like it already 1020 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,320 has Chocolatey enabled by default. It has like power orshell 1021 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,159 wired up the exact way you want it, with all 1022 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,599 the paths mapped as when get DSSE set up for you, 1023 00:47:06,159 --> 00:47:08,639 Like these are things that we take advance, we take 1024 00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:10,800 for granted as developers because we just always had to 1025 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,800 do it. So it's like, Okay, I got to go 1026 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,880 and I got to get the Chocolatey installer. I got 1027 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,320 to get this installer path exactly, so it's kind of 1028 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,039 handled for you. So we talked about that. We talked 1029 00:47:22,039 --> 00:47:24,039 about in tune like we just did. We talked about 1030 00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:27,639 the Windows App, we talked about like you know, different projects, 1031 00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:32,039 different versions of projects, different tasks. That's pretty cool. I mean, 1032 00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:33,719 I think we hit a lot of the stuff. I 1033 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,960 mean I think the biggest thing is, you know, what 1034 00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:39,360 are some of the things that you would like there 1035 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,199 to be right, Like you know, we've been talking about this. 1036 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,280 I think one thing that the team is always looking 1037 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,440 to do is is hear feedback from people like Carl, 1038 00:47:48,519 --> 00:47:51,199 You've you've kind of had this pain of kind of 1039 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,679 doing it yourself, right, Like it sounds like you've already 1040 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,159 kind of been sold on dev box, But like, is 1041 00:47:56,199 --> 00:47:58,800 there anything that I didn't mention that You're like, I 1042 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,760 need something like this, something like this around. 1043 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:01,079 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1044 00:48:01,199 --> 00:48:04,519 Speaker 1: Basically, just the cost savings alone is worth it, because 1045 00:48:04,559 --> 00:48:07,440 you know, I'm already used to tweaking systems, so that's 1046 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,159 a bonus for me. That's a little time saver, but 1047 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,440 it's not a it wouldn't be a deal breaker. 1048 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,840 Speaker 2: Well, and they and the dev center having a repository 1049 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,840 of this is what the configuration. 1050 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:18,320 Speaker 1: Is like, Yeah, that's right. 1051 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,159 Speaker 2: It's kind of a force down the righteous path setting 1052 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,559 up dev box because it makes you do the right thing. 1053 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The phrase that the phrase that we 1054 00:48:26,119 --> 00:48:28,719 like to use is self service with guardrails, Right, I 1055 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,039 like it. That's like that, that's like the go to phrase. 1056 00:48:31,079 --> 00:48:33,719 It's like, you want developers to have autonomy, you want 1057 00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,159 them to be happy, but let's be real, like it, 1058 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,360 admin still have a role to play in organizations because 1059 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,239 they're always thinking about the bad actors, the what could 1060 00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,840 go wrong, and you know, making sure that we're following 1061 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,840 all the right policies that our organization has in place 1062 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,679 is important. Also, one thing, like if anybody wants to know, 1063 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,039 like what's in the future for dev Box, like the 1064 00:48:57,119 --> 00:48:59,920 roadmap is available publicly online, so you can like just 1065 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,239 you know, go to the go to the dev box 1066 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,360 docs and learn, or you can just use search engine 1067 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,159 and go dev Box roadmap and it'll take you in. 1068 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,559 Larro's a list of all the like the different like 1069 00:49:12,679 --> 00:49:16,599 key like deliverable groups that exist and what's going on 1070 00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:17,960 in each of those spaces. 1071 00:49:17,639 --> 00:49:19,119 Speaker 1: In true Microsoft fashion. 1072 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:20,639 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, it's on. 1073 00:49:20,679 --> 00:49:24,039 Speaker 1: Get up. It's great, very cool, awesome, all right, Isaac, 1074 00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:27,159 thanks very much. What's next for you? What's in your inbox? 1075 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,079 Speaker 3: I think that the big thing, obviously we're recording this 1076 00:49:30,199 --> 00:49:33,360 kind of at the beginning of twenty twenty five. My 1077 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,800 big thing is I started to do some tick talking. 1078 00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:39,440 So I do this silly thing where I talk about 1079 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,119 tech in a cold plunge for five minutes because why not. 1080 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,199 And I think, and I think one of the things 1081 00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:48,519 that I've kind of give myself as a resolution for 1082 00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:52,480 this year is I want to understand how LMS work, 1083 00:49:53,199 --> 00:49:56,960 Like I really I understand the concept. I understand a 1084 00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,280 lot of the like the primitive sort of ideas, but 1085 00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:04,360 I really want to understand like the different ways that 1086 00:50:04,679 --> 00:50:06,760 MS can bring value to people, because I think it's 1087 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,920 not going away, that's for sure. And you know, I 1088 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:11,719 want to like learn how to build my own models. 1089 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,360 I want to learn how to you know, train those models, 1090 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,440 and evaluate those models and do all those things. So 1091 00:50:16,679 --> 00:50:18,679 that's kind of the thing that I've been starting to 1092 00:50:18,679 --> 00:50:19,599 pay attention. 1093 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:19,880 Speaker 1: To this year. 1094 00:50:20,119 --> 00:50:22,920 Speaker 2: Well, I got a show coming up for you friend, 1095 00:50:23,199 --> 00:50:23,920 all right, Well. 1096 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,400 Speaker 3: I'll listen to it for sure. You already know I'm 1097 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,199 going to listen to it. 1098 00:50:28,559 --> 00:50:30,559 Speaker 1: All right, all right, this is great. It's been great 1099 00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:31,519 talking to you again, Isaac. 1100 00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:33,000 Speaker 3: Thank you, Yeah, thanks for having me. 1101 00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:35,480 Speaker 1: All right, and we'll talk to you, dear listener next 1102 00:50:35,519 --> 00:50:59,039 time on dot net rocks. Dot net Rocks is brought 1103 00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:02,519 to you by Franklin Net and produced by Pop Studios, 1104 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,920 a full service audio, video and post production facility located 1105 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,880 physically in New London, Connecticut, and of course in the 1106 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:15,000 cloud online at PWOP dot com. Visit our website at 1107 00:51:15,039 --> 00:51:16,880 d O T N E t R O c k 1108 00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:21,960 S dot com for RSS feeds. Downloads, mobile apps, comments, 1109 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,800 and access to the full archives going back to show 1110 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,599 number one, recorded in September two thousand and two. And 1111 00:51:28,679 --> 00:51:31,119 make sure you check out our sponsors. They keep us 1112 00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:34,599 in business. Now go write some code. See you next time. 1113 00:51:35,519 --> 00:51:37,239 Speaker 2: You got Jed Middle Vans 1114 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:51,599 Speaker 3: And