WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:47.560 Oh Bread of Bard, Hello, and welcome to the show. 2 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:50.719 This is the Cult of Conspiracy and I am the 3 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:55.039 Cajun night and tonight we have one a very special guest. 4 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:59.000 We had some scheduling conflicts, right and you know what, 5 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:02.399 we will take the absolute brunt of the guilt as 6 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:03.479 far as that's concerned. 7 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:04.760 Here at the Cold Conspiracy. 8 00:01:05.079 --> 00:01:07.480 We've be pumping out so many episodes at such a 9 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:11.079 rapid rate that sometimes some things go by the wayside. 10 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:13.959 But you know what, we're rectifying that situation. We're happening 11 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:18.280 right now. Ike Baker from the Arcanum podcast, Brother, what 12 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:19.159 is going on? 13 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:24.840 Well, thanks for having me and yeah it's no, no, no, right, 14 00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:27.760 All's well that ends well. So we are here, and uh, 15 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:32.079 I'm really excited to kind of get into it. Thank 16 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.239 you for having me on. And I'm quite interested to 17 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:40.840 see what topics for conversation you guys have lined up. 18 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:43.120 I mean, to be honest with you, there's a lot 19 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:44.920 that we could go down. 20 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:49.760 Just for anybody who doesn't know, Ike Baker is a 21 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:51.799 I don't want to use the term expert, but I 22 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:54.560 also feel like it wouldn't be correct to not use 23 00:01:54.640 --> 00:02:00.799 the term expert of arcane magic with a kesotericism, alchemy, 24 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:04.599 magic with a K Masonic history. 25 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:07.280 Believe it or not, We're going all over the place here, 26 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:09.680 so I believe it or not. 27 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:12.520 Your boy is kind of a jack of all trades, 28 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:16.919 master of some you know. To be determined for those 29 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:19.319 that have never heard of you, please, I give the 30 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:20.759 rundown the elevator speech. 31 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:22.400 Who are you and what are you about? 32 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:36.199 I am a local wizard and I have drawings for sale. 33 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:41.639 I well, I it's a long story, but as of today, 34 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:46.759 I am an initiative senior initiator of the Hermetic Order 35 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:49.680 of the Golden Dawn. I am an administrator. I'm a 36 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.719 temple chief of the North Carolina Temple h O g D. 37 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:58.840 Which is in Asheville. I am a practicing Martinist. I 38 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:05.159 am a Freemason and Masonic historian, so on and so forth. 39 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:10.000 I belong to a lot of these initiatory orders in 40 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:13.360 the Western esoteric tradition, and at this point in my 41 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:16.240 life I'm I'm doing. You know. I have a podcast 42 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:20.520 Arcandom where I bring on arguably the foremost authorities, whether 43 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:25.560 they're authors, practitioners, scholars in the field on Western esotericism 44 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:29.280 and philosophy, and all that fun stuff, and I try 45 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:33.560 to have conversations with them, and it's the show has been. 46 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:37.439 It's been a real blessing in my life, and I've 47 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:39.840 been able to go on to teach and write books. 48 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:41.680 I'm on my third. I got two more in the 49 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:46.280 pipeline for next year. Yeah, and and and to teach 50 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:48.159 and to present all over the world. I go to 51 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:51.759 Egypt every year to present and host a conference, and 52 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:56.840 I take people on immersive excursions where we study the history, theory, 53 00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:00.680 and practice of Western ceremonial in these places. I go 54 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:04.039 to London every year. This year I'll be in Amsterdam 55 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:08.360 and Parma, Italy doing some talks. So a whole lot 56 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:11.479 of stuff. But it really starts with the Hermetic Order 57 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:15.000 of the Golden Dawn. I sort of like stumbled into 58 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:17.560 them when I was about nineteen years old. 59 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:20.680 Yeah, okay, so we're gonna have to break down a 60 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:23.519 few things you just said before you get to raven 61 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:25.120 Ly and I's questions. 62 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:28.000 So, okay, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. 63 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:31.959 And you also said you are a Freemason, and then 64 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:34.920 there was one other organization that you say, you're the Martinis. 65 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:36.240 If I'm not mistaken correct. 66 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:38.519 Yeah, those are the ones I can talk about. 67 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:40.439 Okay, fair enough, fair enough. 68 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:44.199 So for anybody who does not know, Ravenly and I 69 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:47.879 have talked about the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn primarily, 70 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:51.519 and I don't mean this in a insulting way. The 71 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.439 Battle of blythe Road has been brought up a couple 72 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:59.360 of times on this podcast, where Alistair Crowley went against 73 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.480 young in them and basically through his magical incantations and 74 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:06.519 hand sigils and basically they were trying to have like 75 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:10.399 a magical duel until finally the members of the Hermetic 76 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:12.399 Order of the Golden Dawn decided, fuck this guy in 77 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.319 roundhouse his ass and like beat the absolute shit at 78 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:19.199 him physically. So for those that don't know, give the 79 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:22.120 breakdown from your understanding of what the Hermetic Order of 80 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:24.240 the Golden Dawn is, please. 81 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:29.680 Sure, sure, there there's so there's Let me just say 82 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:32.240 about the Battle of black Blathe Road that it's there's 83 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.480 I am no fan of Crowley whatsoever. 84 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:37.600 Good but because you shouldn't be correct, but. 85 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.680 There's a lot of legend in in that whole uh, 86 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:45.439 in that whole account that it's but it's fun, it's fun. 87 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:47.759 It's one of the things that makes the Hermetic Order 88 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:50.079 of the Golden Dawn as a feature of you know, 89 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:55.079 findeska occult history so so so much fun and so 90 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:58.319 so interesting, so fascinating because of all the cast of 91 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:00.319 characters that were a part of this. A lot of 92 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:03.720 people sure don't realize it, but so so. The Harmonical 93 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:07.160 Order of the Golden Dun was formed by three Freemasons 94 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:13.480 in London in eighteen eighty eight. And these Freemasons belonged 95 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:16.560 to a para Masonic or I guess what we would 96 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:20.879 call a concordant body called the SRIA, the Societys Rosicruciana 97 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:23.199 in Anglia, and which is. 98 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:26.560 The Roscrucion order of the Freemasons. 99 00:06:27.319 --> 00:06:28.560 Well, let me rephrase this. 100 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:31.279 They were not a order of the Freemasons that were 101 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:35.199 RESICUTIONI they were Masons that happened to also be Rosicrusions 102 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:36.120 that founded their own thing. 103 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.920 Correct, Well, it was. It's technically what we call like 104 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:43.879 a concordant or an appendent. So it's not the three 105 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:48.639 craft degrees of freemasonry, the first, second and third degrees 106 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:53.680 right entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason. Those are definitively. 107 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:56.680 And I don't give a shit what anybody says about 108 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:59.360 about the thirty thirds and stuff. I really don't. I'm 109 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:03.720 a Masonic story and I know many thirty thirds. If 110 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:06.319 a thirty third came to my Blue ladge and tried 111 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:08.759 to order me around, I could respectfully tell him to 112 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:12.920 go fuck himself and he'd have no recourse. So, because 113 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:17.360 there is no higher degree than the third in Freemason right, 114 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:22.800 degrees one through three are vertical movement within the fraternity, 115 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:28.240 the York right, the Scottish rite, it's horizontal movie movement. 116 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:32.240 They're side quests now, prequels and sequels. 117 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:34.959 We just did an episode on this literally like a 118 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:35.519 day ago. 119 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:38.560 So I'm not saying this to push back. I am 120 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.040 asking this strictly as an outside observer. 121 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:41.800 Right. 122 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:47.199 So there are those there are those Freemasons that would 123 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:51.319 say that what you are saying is absolutely ridiculous, and 124 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:54.600 there's no way that a thirty second degree could even 125 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:57.560 come to the same playing field of a third degree 126 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:03.120 Scottish York doesn't matter. They had this elitist entitlement air 127 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:03.959 about them. 128 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:05.360 What is your response. 129 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:08.959 I have never met any of him, and I've traveled 130 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.839 I traveled the country, I've troubled the world and spoke 131 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:15.959 for scenary. I will say that within the Scottish Right, 132 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:20.160 which is an appendant body, it's not the core of Freemasonry. 133 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:23.360 Now within the Scottish Right, there there's, there's, there's. You know, 134 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:26.439 we have the Northern jurisdiction and the Southern jurisdiction. The 135 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:30.519 Southern jurisdiction is what everybody knows, because the Southern jurisdiction 136 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.480 is is they run the Pike rituals. That everybody talking 137 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:36.080 about Albert Pike and how he I mean, he was 138 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:39.919 a really really shitty author, not much of an esthetetical. 139 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:43.600 Have you read Morals Indulgent? I mean yes, but we've 140 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:44.440 read some of it. 141 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:46.240 I read we were reading some of it the other 142 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:48.519 day and I was like, God, blessed, this is terrible. 143 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:50.399 That was actually what my question is going to be. 144 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:50.840 No. 145 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:53.639 I loved the sound of his own voice and wanted 146 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:56.519 you to know that he was so fucking smart. 147 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:57.279 He wanted that. 148 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.559 Well, well, here here's the thing. He does in one 149 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.879 of his prefaces talk about how he is not the 150 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:06.120 originator of much of what he put in that book. 151 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:08.799 He was he rather thought of himself more as a compiler, 152 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:11.440 which is true because he lifted whole cloth from people 153 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:13.799 like Eli Fos Levy and even Victor Hugo, right he 154 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:19.000 wrote let me, but he does take on this really 155 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:22.720 really obnoxious, pretentious writing style. And now here's the thing. 156 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:26.519 He's lifting whole cloth from Levy, He's lifting from Victor Hugo, 157 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:29.960 He's lifting from all the many French sources and in 158 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:36.080 the textual corporal the body of work from the you know, 159 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.480 the eighteenth, nineteenth, and early twentieth centuries. Of course that 160 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:41.679 he's writing in the nineteenth in the nineteenth century or 161 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:45.480 the eighteen hundreds, but the occult literature from that time 162 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.600 had a very distinct style in France, which was to 163 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.360 sort of like play this little weird dancy four play 164 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:54.639 game where it's like I'm gonna say a bunch of 165 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:57.840 high sounding mystical shit and I'm going to talk a 166 00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:59.759 lot about what's behind the curtain, but I'm not going 167 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:02.720 to tell you, and I'm gonna be like concealing more 168 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:06.600 than i'm revealing. And every single time I've encountered that 169 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:10.360 in person, they just it's a cover for they don't 170 00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:13.000 know what they're talking about. Right, So I live in 171 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:15.960 the South, and uh, I'm not a fan of Pike. 172 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.200 And and you know, so there there are there are 173 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:25.279 Masons that can't understand why I don't like Pike, Why I'm. 174 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:27.879 Not amazing to not be a fan of Pike. That's 175 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:30.120 a wild statement. Break this down. 176 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:34.840 You see you see it, you see it. The problem is, like, 177 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:40.279 it's rare to get your average Mason on a fucking podcast. 178 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.960 It's rare to get like those those people aren't like 179 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:46.759 you're you're you're what we call knife and fork Masons, 180 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:49.480 the people who show up for dinner and charity, I mean. 181 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:51.840 Like, which is the majority of Masons. 182 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:55.039 For the record, most of them, they're going for the networking, 183 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:57.559 they're going for the charitable outreach of it. They're going 184 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:00.759 for to say they're a Mason. And that's like they're 185 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.600 not a part of like the clique, if you want 186 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.240 to get real technical about it, Like I mean, the 187 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:07.320 thing is, the thing is. 188 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.240 The only clicks that there are are the grand lodge systems. 189 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:14.960 Because what people don't understand about Freemasonry is that it's 190 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.879 completely in the United States, Freemasonry is completely decentralized, So 191 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:23.799 there's no Grand headquarters. There's no Grand headquarters for Freemasonry. 192 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:28.320 Each state is its own sovereign. So the highest Mustonic 193 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:32.720 authority in my my my state is the Grand Lodge 194 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:34.720 of North Carolina. And I happen to know many of 195 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:36.919 the people that that are in there, and they're you know, 196 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:38.559 they have regular jobs. 197 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:41.679 I mean they were so to push back slightly, and 198 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:45.120 I would love to hear your retort to say that 199 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.639 the Grand Lodge in Washington, d c. Presides over the 200 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:50.159 Grand Lodge of North Carolina. 201 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:53.679 You say, absolutely not break this down, really, no way. 202 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:56.840 Yeah, I mean this is these are fundamental things people 203 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:01.039 that have they just don't understand it. It's there is 204 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:05.759 no central governing Masonic body through and through and through 205 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:08.240 and through there never has been in the United States. 206 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:13.440 What we do is we have uh concordats uh where 207 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:19.039 we we or we say okay, like there are certain things, right, 208 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:23.919 I'll use this example. There's this thing called Prince Hall masonry. 209 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:27.120 Right, black black masonry, right right, yeah. 210 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:29.440 I mean it's still predominantly black in a lot of places. 211 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:34.840 So various states, particularly in the South, have chosen to 212 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:40.480 either acknowledge them, which is it's a kindness. They still operate, 213 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:44.039 their lives don't change, but it's it's it's like it's 214 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:46.279 like a sign of respect. Okay, we acknowledge, we know 215 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:51.240 so so some now some lodges that down in the South, 216 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.080 I'm not going to go into the whole certain name 217 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:54.960 and names and Louisiana. 218 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:58.600 I know a few Prince Hall Masonry liges versus some 219 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:01.480 that claim that, oh, we would never accept a black Mason, 220 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:05.080 even though they will accept women Masons today but not 221 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:09.519 black Masons. It's there's a lot of old school. I 222 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.960 hate to be this way, but it's true. There are 223 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.159 some lodges that still operate with a real sense of 224 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:19.000 racism in their roots. There are some, not all, there 225 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:19.399 are some. 226 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:22.480 Yeah, well i'll finish my example here and I'll kind 227 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.480 of tap tap into some of the things you said. 228 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.840 Some states, the majority of the states, choose to recognize 229 00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:34.519 Prince Hall. When there is an issue and another state 230 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.919 has not recognized Prince Hall or something, then other states 231 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.840 can choose to sort of like not no longer have 232 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:48.000 concord at or or no longer have amity. It's called 233 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.200 actually with that lodge. So it's like we're all out 234 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.720 here kind of just doing whatever the the Grand Lodge 235 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.519 at the state level is doing. Now it's important that 236 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:02.080 you that you mentioned that there there are lodges that 237 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:05.480 that are are that can be inherently racist. It's because 238 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:09.399 the a lodge is not a place. A lodge is 239 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:10.080 the people. 240 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:12.960 It is the same way the Christian faith believes that 241 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.240 the church quote unquote is not the brick and mortar building, 242 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.200 It is the inhabitants that come to. 243 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.759 The body of Christ exactly, yeah, exactly, the living body 244 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:24.480 of Christ. Yeah. So so it kind of works that 245 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:27.080 way as far as there there are certain things to 246 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:30.799 make sure that you stay in amity with the law, 247 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:33.960 with with everybody, and and these are called you know 248 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:39.480 the uh, there are keystones of freemasonry that keep you 249 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.440 what are what we call it within regularity, right, Okay. 250 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:49.240 So this would be being a man being of age 251 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:53.159 at which you know, in some place used to be twenty. 252 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:55.039 One, now it's eighteen. 253 00:14:55.159 --> 00:15:01.039 Yeah, exactly. And you believe in a higher power, okay, 254 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:04.120 and that that higher power can't be you know, Satan 255 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:07.399 for the most part. It's got it has to be 256 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:13.879 you know, a recognizable form of worship of the divine 257 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:17.600 in some way, so or you know, an understanding of 258 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:22.279 the of the divine, a belief in the divine. The 259 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.080 Golden don is the same way. The Golden Dawn is 260 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.600 a little stricter because we are not a democracy. In 261 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.600 the Golden Dawn. It's a hierarchy, and it's it's it's 262 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.919 a benevolent hierarchy for sure. But you know, like we don't. 263 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:37.159 We don't accept anybody that's actively doing any left hand 264 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:40.840 path work, so Satanism, anything having to do with Crowley 265 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:43.919 and any of his work. And I would say that 266 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:48.600 when a Masonic, I, me and two other chiefs decide 267 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:52.559 who gets into our temple, who gets initiated. Okay, in Freemasonry, 268 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:55.879 every member of the lodge has to vote who's there 269 00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:59.240 for we receive notice, we'll be voting on this candidate. 270 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:01.120 All the people who need to come. You need to 271 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:05.679 become nobody's twisting their arm about anything, and and if 272 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.120 we all vote them in, then then they're in. And 273 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.320 a lot of times you will see that. And again 274 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:14.360 this depends on the lodge, depends on the jurisdiction. But yeah, 275 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.480 I mean there's not there's not necessarily a place in 276 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:21.360 freemasonry for people who are actively pursuing Freemason, I mean 277 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:25.279 Satanism or or even you know that people will normally 278 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.679 keep the fact that they're doing any kind of crowlely 279 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:31.759 work kind of hush hush because the overwhelming majority of Masons, 280 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:34.720 particularly in the South, they're very they're very religious Christians. 281 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:38.039 Okay, So so wow, I didn't know that, to be 282 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:38.720 honest with you. 283 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:42.240 Yeah, because like like like a lot of the information 284 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.399 out there is just like it's a bunch of people 285 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:46.799 trying to figure it out from the outside in and 286 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:48.840 then and then when people come out of the house 287 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.519 to talk about what's going on there, they don't believe us. 288 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.480 That's fair. It's what about overseas because like, okay, so 289 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.240 if everybody is governing themselves within each state, what does 290 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:02.120 overseas look like? Because when I was looking on the 291 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.559 Mason site, like there was very it seemed like it 292 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:08.519 was country to country how they actually did it. It wasn't 293 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.319 just like city to city or state to state kind 294 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:13.839 of thing. It's just like strictly like Germany had their 295 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:17.359 own vibe going on versus France versus you know, is 296 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:20.759 that what you've seen, Like do they practice different ways 297 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:25.480 over there? Is this all inherently Masons really overall aren't 298 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.440 really practicing in the demonic realm like a lot of 299 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:29.039 people believe. 300 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:35.599 Yeah, So, I mean it's it varies very, very widely. 301 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:40.799 There's so the United Grand Lodge of England, right, that's 302 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:43.720 the big body because it was the first one that 303 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:48.319 was actually sort of formalized and put together in the 304 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:55.440 early eighteenth century, and there was there were other forms 305 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:58.799 of masonry happening, primarily in the UK or you know 306 00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:02.960 at the time, the the British Isles and in Scotland. 307 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.519 So we have a lot of history of free Masonic lodges, 308 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.119 right because they kept minute books where they recorded everything 309 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.920 that was said and done, and we still that's that's 310 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:16.000 something that we do today. Every lodge has to write 311 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.359 down their minutes and all that stuff and read them 312 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.400 to you know, out loud to the members at the 313 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:23.960 next session, so on and so forth. So we have 314 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:25.920 some of that stuff, I mean, dating as far back 315 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:32.599 as the sixteen hundreds for in Scotland. Now the uglas 316 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.160 we refer to it, right, the United Grand Lodge of 317 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:39.240 England is a presiding body that we want. Most Grand 318 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:41.599 Lodges in the United States want to have amity with 319 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:46.079 them because they're legit. But it's a different kind of masonry. 320 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:46.599 Now. 321 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:50.519 I belong to the SRIA, which was the college. I 322 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:54.440 was the Rosie Crucian body. I was talking about, what is. 323 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:56.319 That going to mean? Sr I A. 324 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.200 You said, yeah, the Societist Rosie Crucian and Angli it 325 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:04.160 means the Society of Rosie Crucians in England, and so 326 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.680 so we in the States we have the SRI CF, 327 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.200 which is a different Latin acronym. But I belong to 328 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:13.440 the SRI A. And I actually belonged to Metropolitan College, 329 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:15.519 which is the college all three founders of the Hermitic 330 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.960 Order at the Golden Dawn came out of. So that 331 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.519 that is a real honor. And I say this not 332 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:22.359 to kind of pat myself on the back, because I 333 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:25.119 had very little to do with that, but more so 334 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:27.960 it would be like I have a foot in in 335 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:33.200 English masonry, particularly I've just joined another lodge there and 336 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:40.000 I'm waiting for approval. But it's masonry over there is 337 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:43.960 it's it's I'll put it this way. I go to 338 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:47.880 London every year. I'll be back this year. It is 339 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:51.680 a great town. I think to be a mason, not 340 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.559 because people are so accepting because they're kind of not 341 00:19:55.599 --> 00:20:00.279 h but the fraternity is extremely strong there and they 342 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.519 have and I'm staying in London, they have you know, 343 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:08.079 the base of operations there at Freemasons Hall. There's a 344 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:11.519 research library. I mean, I haven't ever gone into that 345 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:14.759 building and not run into somebody that I knew from 346 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:19.000 like zoom or from YouTube or something. So it's a 347 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:24.559 major hub of activity where notable Freemasons like living, notable 348 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:30.240 Freemasons hangout and have coffee, have beer, do riginal whatever 349 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:33.240 it is. It's it is absolutely one hundred and ten 350 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:41.279 thousand percent not at all satanic at all whatsoever. It's 351 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:45.079 not not demonic in any way, shape or form, because 352 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.319 I think, first of all, that shit is silly. Second 353 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.319 of all, I am I am a Christian, so like 354 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:54.759 I'm not going to why the fuck would I do 355 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.240 anything demonic? Right, It's just I'm not interested in it. 356 00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:59.799 But now you go to France and they have a 357 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.839 different sort of thing because they broke a few of 358 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:08.160 those rules, you know, the sort of the the keystones 359 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.440 of Freemasonry. I forget what they're called. There's a specific 360 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:12.400 name for them, but it's escaping me right now because 361 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:18.200 it's late. They ended up you could be an atheist, uh, 362 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.279 and you and they began recognizing and accepting women in 363 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:25.799 the Masonic fraternity. We have. There is co masonry in 364 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:29.480 the United States, and it depends, you know, whether or 365 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.359 not a Grand Lodge is going to recognize that. But 366 00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:35.599 co masonry is obviously, you know, female oriented or co 367 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:41.359 ed oriented freemasonry, to varying degrees of acceptance. But in France, France, 368 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:42.799 they kind of just did away with a lot of 369 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:47.240 the stuff, so they split into two Grand lodges, and 370 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:50.200 so yeah, I mean it's that they're the two big ones. 371 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.799 I would say, Uh, but there's there's stuff I don't 372 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:57.200 even know about because there's for a little conversation going 373 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.160 on in Germany and stuff like that. I think is 374 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.079 a really really big with the Scottish right. But of 375 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:06.480 course their Scottish right is not our Scottish Rights's completely different. 376 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:07.359 Very different, right. 377 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:07.519 Right? 378 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.000 Okay, So how long have you been a brother of 379 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:12.200 the Masonic Order? 380 00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:13.759 Uh? 381 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:16.160 Coming up on my sixth year. 382 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.559 I believe. 383 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:20.599 Okay, Okay, if you travel to London, like you said, 384 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:24.440 yearly four, is it the Masonic Grand Meeting? 385 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.880 Uh? No, I go because I love to travel, and 386 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:34.519 I get invited to speak and do presentations at bookstores 387 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.599 on on. You know, I'm averaging a book a year, 388 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:40.920 so I basically the second half of every year for 389 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:43.799 me is dedicated to touring and talking about my book. 390 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.799 But London is a town I really really love because 391 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.000 I've always just had an affinity for their history. I mean, 392 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.039 I remember being thirteen years old and reading Robert Lewis Stevenson, 393 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:58.240 you know, Doctor Jekyl, mister Iden. Just the cobblestone streets, 394 00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:02.519 the cloak and dagger, aestetic. It's just incredible to walk 395 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:08.039 around there. You know, things in some quarters of London 396 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:10.839 they look like, you know, not not too far of 397 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:13.480 a departure from what they may have looked like in 398 00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:16.759 the nineteenth century, but certainly the people are different, right, 399 00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.480 modern people. But yeah, so I'll go there. I do 400 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:24.200 research too, at the British Museum, the British Library. I 401 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:27.920 got my researcher card and everything and and and at 402 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:32.640 cool Yeah, the the United Freemasons Hall has a research 403 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.279 library that I've I love spending time in. You got 404 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:36.680 booked at. 405 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:40.160 I would love to go there and read. I'm a reader. 406 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.920 I'm a researcher. So I would just that's that would 407 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.599 be so awesome to be able to get that and 408 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:45.440 go read. 409 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:47.799 London is one of the best cities in the world 410 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:52.799 to be a scholar or a historian because they effectively, 411 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.640 the British took everyone else's fucking history and it's it's 412 00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:59.680 all there for you to peruse. You know, it's all there, 413 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:03.720 it's your fingertips. They don't they don't put a very 414 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:07.400 thick barrier between people who want to research this stuff 415 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.319 and actually getting it done. 416 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.759 So I have a question, So you belong to all 417 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:17.319 these different groups, do they like, is there any interference 418 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:20.720 because you belong to different things? Because I mean, wouldn't 419 00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:24.079 they do they conflict of interests? Do they like counteract 420 00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:26.079 each other? I mean, because it seems like they might 421 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:29.079 be all inherently kind of a line but also believing 422 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:32.160 in different things. And if it's like if you're Christian 423 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.839 and esoteric, like I just can't even break it down 424 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:36.240 a little bit more for me because I just want 425 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.000 to kind of understand because there's so many different components 426 00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:39.559 to each one. 427 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:43.720 Sure, I'll start with the organizations. I'm a part of, 428 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:48.119 the Golden Dawn, the Martinist Order and every other thing 429 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:51.599 that I'm a part of is derivative of Freemasonry. It 430 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.000 all comes out of Freemasonry, and it is commenting on 431 00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:00.200 free Masonic symbolism and ritual. So a lot of people 432 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.680 don't understand that, Like the Golden Dawn is if you're 433 00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:06.119 if you do Golden Down ritual, you're basically doing free 434 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:08.880 Masonic ritual with a lot of bells and whistles on it. 435 00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:11.519 Break down what ritual? 436 00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:15.359 Yeah, like any because I don't because I don't. Honestly, 437 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.160 I don't know any of them. So like that's I'm 438 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:20.519 pretty ignorant to that in and of itself. I've heard 439 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:23.000 of it from people talking about it, Like we talked 440 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:24.599 to one person. They kind of like broke down some 441 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:26.240 of it. To be honest, I don't know a bunch. 442 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:28.359 So for those of us that are really. 443 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:34.519 Golden Dawn is also acknowledging Tubulcane to be an important figure. 444 00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:39.160 No, it's it's it's it's not that they acknowledge or 445 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:43.759 don't acknowledge Tubulcane. You know, these are all pedagogical or 446 00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:49.039 symbolic you know, sort of teachings that they that they 447 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:52.279 all have, but but I'll put it this way. It's 448 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.799 difficult to in order to wrap your head around this stuff. 449 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.160 You cannot approach it with your exoteric mind. You will 450 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:06.680 never understand the esoteric with your exoteric perspective. It's not possible. 451 00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:11.559 It's not possible, I promise you. Okay, I've spent twenty 452 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.400 over twenty coming up my twenty second year of doing 453 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:20.160 this in one form or another. Okay, very seriously, and 454 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.680 at a certain point you realize the perceptual filters that 455 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:32.160 have been installed in modern people completely fuck us when 456 00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.480 we're trying to look back and understand what the past 457 00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:39.519 was like. The actual things that we have installed in 458 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:43.759 us into our mental framework as a product of our civilization, 459 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:48.960 as a product of our institutional you know, our educational institutions, 460 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:52.319 as a product of even the type of speech and 461 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:55.720 the type of media we consume. It is preventing us 462 00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.480 from understanding these things. I don't know if that's by design. 463 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.640 I tend to think at some point it's it's it's 464 00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:05.839 it's used as a nice leverage. But the key thing 465 00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:12.759 is that I'll answer your question. Raven ritual is based 466 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.200 on a formula. A lot of people don't understand its 467 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.720 particularly Masonic ritual. It is the it is the process 468 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:23.039 of going from darkness to light. And this darkness, this 469 00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:26.079 darkness is a darkness of the outer world. We call 470 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:29.279 it the profane world. But this word in Latin profianum 471 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:32.519 just means outside of the temple. The it's we're going 472 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:36.279 from uninitiated life where we don't have the light. What 473 00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:45.720 is the light? The light is effectively both the substance 474 00:27:46.519 --> 00:27:50.359 and nature of the divine. Okay, say if you if 475 00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:52.559 you boil it down from the corpus or medicum, you 476 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.200 can you can basically distill it down to this, God 477 00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:59.920 is one. His substance is light. Okay. So this preoccu 478 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.319 patient with light. It's not just about this rote memorization 479 00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:07.680 and this learning of philosophy. It's literally coming into touch 480 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:10.720 in some way, shape or form with divinity. 481 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:11.480 Uh. 482 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.079 And so in this, in this way we always you know, 483 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.680 you're let around the the ritual as like parts of 484 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.960 the Old Testament, part of the Psalms are are recited, 485 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.160 parts of the Bible are recited. You know, as you 486 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:29.519 you move around in Masonic ritual and you're introduced at 487 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:32.559 at at the various stations and what you realize is 488 00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:36.400 that there's there's only stations in the east, south, and west, 489 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:40.440 and you're moving clockwise, constantly clockwise. Okay, So that's a 490 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.319 big part of the formula. Why because all this stuff 491 00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:46.559 was formed in the northern hemisphere, and the Sun is 492 00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:49.759 always in the southern sky in that in the northern hemisphere, 493 00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:52.680 it never goes into the north. So you have these 494 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:58.119 three officers representing sunrise, afternoon or mid heaven uh uh, 495 00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:02.599 and and sunset, and you are going around from the 496 00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:06.000 from the west to the east, by the north, from 497 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:08.559 from the east to the west by the south. What 498 00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:11.079 does that make You're being trained to move like the sun? 499 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:14.400 Why in the sun not because we worship a sun god, 500 00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:20.279 but because this is our terrestrial, our our physical analog 501 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:26.240 of that spiritual light. So the Freemasonry and the Golden 502 00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.559 Dawn and are primarily what we call solar orders. This 503 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:32.759 is the whole death and rebirth things. To say, the 504 00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:35.559 Sun dies in the west and is reborn in the east. 505 00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:39.519 But it also it also dies in winter and is 506 00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:44.920 born in spring. Okay. So there's there's all of that 507 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.200 allegory going on. It's all pointing really towards a single thing, 508 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:50.160 which is the immortality of the soul. 509 00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:54.599 Okay, So do you go around the equinoxes too, like 510 00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:59.039 you guys kind of do like specific rituals around like 511 00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:02.039 a certain times year. Do you do them with every level? 512 00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:03.480 I mean, I know that you do them with every 513 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:04.319 level up you go. 514 00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:10.279 The Golden Lawn has equinox rituals specifically, but they're what 515 00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:15.480 they do is is they sort of they set the 516 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:19.839 individual Golden Dawn temple in abeyance temporarily and then reconstitute it. 517 00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:22.440 So it's like taking everything down just to rebuild it, 518 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:26.000 particularly on the equinoxes, because that's the that's the only 519 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.359 time in the year where you have equal amounts of 520 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.319 light and dark. Okay. That that's why we do it 521 00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:35.480 on the equinoxes because it's balanced. It is it's the 522 00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:39.200 only time of the year where there is balance. Uh So, 523 00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:41.440 it's it's a lot of that. It's a lot about 524 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:44.079 learning about spiritual truths and then how to be in 525 00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:47.880 the world from looking at frankly, you know, the solar 526 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:51.839 movements and the lunar movements and what nature is doing. Honestly, 527 00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:54.160 so I don't I don't know if that answers a 528 00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.039 lot of your questions. But it's I mean, this is 529 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.640 we're now we're getting into you know, like five hundred 530 00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.680 years of history at this point, so a lot. That's 531 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:04.279 a lot of ground. 532 00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:07.359 I like history. So I mean, it's it's I like 533 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:10.880 to understand it because I mean all I've really, I mean, 534 00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:13.160 I've heard what I think everybody else has heard. When 535 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:17.119 we talk about like specific orders and especially freemasons and 536 00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:19.680 stuff like we just did an episode on it, is like, 537 00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:21.839 you know, a lot of people discuss it and think 538 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.279 that it's just inherently it wasn't started out as evil 539 00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:29.680 or you know, satanic, but then it got twisted with 540 00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:33.319 Pike and then turn into something else, whatever it is, 541 00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:35.960 and then people talk about the thirty third and then 542 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:39.079 you know, this is it potentially you know, they're doing 543 00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:42.440 left handed magic or they're like, you know, doing evil 544 00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:47.079 ritualistic practices, and you're you've been around the world and 545 00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:49.279 you've seen all these things, but you've never actually experienced 546 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:53.559 any people doing of these things. So you know, is 547 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:55.759 that is that just something that people just kind of 548 00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:58.200 a conspiracy that people made up and that's just been 549 00:31:58.440 --> 00:31:59.920 running rampant for a long time. 550 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:02.680 The thing is that you always fear what you don't 551 00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:07.440 understand or what you're excluded, what you're excluded from, and 552 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:11.039 we need a scapegoat, we just do. People can't exist 553 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:15.359 in that area of total autonomy, which says, come, what 554 00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:21.200 may the responsibilities on me? Especially now, we live in 555 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:27.240 a society of victim culture, and it's every everybody, everybody 556 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:31.839 is everybody is pointing towards some sort of fucking ghost, 557 00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:35.160 somebody in the shadows to blame. But at the end 558 00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:39.160 of the day, a society, a civilization is the sum 559 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:42.880 of its people. And so our best bet is to 560 00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:48.680 look at ourselves, revolutionize, start the revolution within. This is 561 00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:52.440 the purpose of initiation is to begin to begin. This 562 00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:56.359 is what initiate means, right, to begin to get started 563 00:32:56.680 --> 00:33:01.240 in this this revolution of the self. And yeah, it's 564 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:06.799 the thing is people also don't understand, particularly the United States, 565 00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:10.000 and like we're not. There's no one grand you know, 566 00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.720 Masonic uh sort of lodge that that governs everybody, tells 567 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:19.119 everybody what they can and cannot do. So when you 568 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:24.480 see instances, right, remember I said the lodges are the people, Okay, 569 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:28.599 when you see instances of lodges engaging in corruption, and 570 00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:33.519 engaging in, you know, a nefarious activity. What they're not 571 00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:37.799 understanding is that like that, we cast them the fuck 572 00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:40.039 out as soon as we figure that out. And the 573 00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.599 same the same thing that you know, I use this 574 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:47.359 analogy with the Scottish Rite, with whatever. If you have 575 00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:52.319 let's just say, right, you have a part of your 576 00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:55.240 family that is kind of they're kind of like little wacky, 577 00:33:55.960 --> 00:34:01.200 a little crazy, and uh, you have I don't know 578 00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:04.240 friends come over or you you've got your your new partner, 579 00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:07.839 your new spouse at Thanksgiving and these fools over here 580 00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:15.320 are acting up. You understand how that reflects on you. 581 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.519 At the same time, you also understand that that's not me, 582 00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:21.840 you know, that's these people over here. So it's just 583 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:25.320 it's a very similar thing. Just to personalize it for people. 584 00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:28.280 It's a very similar thing with freemasonry. It's not this 585 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:32.119 thing where you know, I mean, most of what we're 586 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:36.760 doing is praying, and literally like blood blood drives. I 587 00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:39.400 mean we probably pray at an average meeting and we 588 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:42.119 pray to God, the creator of the universe. 589 00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:50.480 Okay, real question, Grand Architect or God, the same person. 590 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:52.599 But a lot of Masons that may not be of 591 00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:57.639 your uh sect, of spirituality might call it something. 592 00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:00.639 Else exactly, which which is why we reduce it to 593 00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:03.679 the great, great, great architect of the universe in freemasonrym 594 00:35:03.719 --> 00:35:08.360 because it's it's it's not prioritizing one word for that 595 00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:13.079 that that creative intelligence over another. It's it's something that's 596 00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:18.199 quintessentially quintessentially Masonic. However, it's really derivative of from the 597 00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:21.960 Platonic tradition. The Platonic dialogues are really the first time 598 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.239 we see on the historical record, and depending you know, 599 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:27.920 you also see it in in the Old Testament. But 600 00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:32.199 the dating of the Old Testament is is so it's 601 00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:36.280 such a hairy thing, particularly for scholarsh scholarship, that we 602 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:39.599 we don't really know. There's no there's no hard consensus 603 00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:41.119 on how old the Old Testament is. 604 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:43.480 Well, that's not a Masonic thing, that's a that's a 605 00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.199 normal person thing as well. To say that you know 606 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.679 what happened in three thousand BC, bro, we have no 607 00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:52.360 way of fucking quantifying that. 608 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:56.119 Yeah, exactly exactly. And it's it's all based on on 609 00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:59.800 these kind of older is better and we want our 610 00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:03.400 things to be really old and whatever. The truth is 611 00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:06.920 always somewhere in the middle. Right, sure, but we see 612 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:11.400 really God as an architect for the for the first 613 00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:14.719 for the first time in a Platonic dialogue called the 614 00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:17.199 time Ass, which I believe was is thought to have 615 00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:19.840 been written around three hundred and sixty somewhere around three 616 00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:26.840 hundred and sixty BCE, and effectively Plato through the chief interlocutor, 617 00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.840 who in this particular dialogue is not Socrates, which is 618 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:33.360 is not the usual thing. It's this Pythagorean philosopher time Ass. 619 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:37.440 He's talking about the nature of the universe as mathematics, 620 00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:40.599 because this is the way the mind of God works. Right. 621 00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:45.280 Plato is famous for saying God can continually geometrizes. Not 622 00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:48.519 only that, but legendarily, over the gate to his academy 623 00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:51.079 there was there an inscription that said, let no man 624 00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:55.559 ignorant of geometry enter into year. Now, what would a mason, right, 625 00:36:55.719 --> 00:37:01.000 what would an operative mason need to know above anything else? Geometry? 626 00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:03.760 Sure? Sure, so these two. 627 00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:06.639 These two things are so intimately connected that I actually 628 00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:09.800 go around the world giving UH talks. I give a 629 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.840 talk called UH Platonism and Freemasonry. 630 00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:17.639 Okay, I personally have such an issue with Pythagoreas for 631 00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:18.920 so many reasons. 632 00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:21.719 For one, he didn't come up with no theorem. 633 00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:26.000 There are Samerian texts that obviously will show that the 634 00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:30.440 entire lineage of how the triangle we all can can 635 00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:34.000 dictate the Piagoras theorem right of how a square plus 636 00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:35.199 b squad equals c squared. 637 00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:37.679 He didn't come up with that shit that was. 638 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:39.599 Ritten, But he never he never claimed to. 639 00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:41.840 No, no, no, no, no no. At that point. 640 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:44.760 The issue I have with him not only did he 641 00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:48.440 take credit for things and and maybe he didn't. 642 00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:51.800 He didn't though, because he never wrote anything so anything. 643 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.760 All these things were attributed to him by people that 644 00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:56.840 were writing three hundred years after he died. 645 00:37:56.920 --> 00:37:57.639 And that's fair. 646 00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.320 That is absolutely adequate and fair, and I'm with you 647 00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.239 on this. However, his numbers cult, his math cult, he 648 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:07.320 still forced people to be silent for at least a 649 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:11.320 year before admittance, this sexual weirdness that they would do 650 00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:14.320 before they even learned how to do a basic equilater 651 00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:18.159 or triangle math. It just he himself was a bit 652 00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.320 of a fucking psychopath. 653 00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:22.920 But what she what she got to realize too, is 654 00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:25.639 that he didn't force anybody to do anything because this 655 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:26.639 was all voluntary. 656 00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:31.880 Oh sure, for a year and give away all your 657 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:37.320 worldly possessions and uh negate your family lineage in favor 658 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.280 of the numbers cult. Yeah, willingly do so. That doesn't 659 00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:45.039 make it like more okay personally, but I hear your point. 660 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:45.440 Personally. 661 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:47.920 I think Pythagris is a bit of a psychopath, but 662 00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:50.679 so are most cult leaders. And I don't just mean 663 00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:52.639 that to the cult of what we think about today. 664 00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.079 Even the cults of ancient Greece. The cult leaders, even 665 00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:58.639 the cult of Dionysius, the cult of Zeus, the cult 666 00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:03.480 of whatever. They were looking psychos, but they were very charismatic. 667 00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:06.800 They could draw what what what? What criteria are you 668 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:11.480 using to judge their their to diagnose their psychology. It 669 00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:16.360 seems it seems a little retrofitted and a little outlandish 670 00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:19.679 for somebody to to look back and paint all of 671 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:24.000 like history's holy people with the with the brush of insanity, 672 00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:28.480 when really, really you you were just talking about how 673 00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:32.880 Noah's flood cannot be verified because they because they happen 674 00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:35.639 three theft. We don't have any way of verifying any 675 00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:37.880 of the stuff that you're saying right now. I'm very 676 00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:43.760 I'm very, very very very intimately tied into you know, uh, 677 00:39:44.199 --> 00:39:47.800 particularly Pythagorean, Platonic and Hermetic history. And I work with 678 00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:50.280 scholars I sit on an academic board with about their 679 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.760 hondograft from the University of Amsterdam, Charlie Stang, who runs 680 00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:56.079 the center, the Harvard Center for the Study of World Religions. 681 00:39:56.360 --> 00:39:59.000 So these scholars also are my friends, and I'm leaning 682 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:02.039 on them for this stuff. And uh, you know, much 683 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:06.199 of what the problem is that we we as modern people, 684 00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:11.679 are consuming tertiary and quaternary like sources so far removed 685 00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:14.320 from the actual text. Have you ever read a pithet? 686 00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:17.559 Have you ever read a Pythagony in text? Truly Pythagorea 687 00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:17.960 in text? 688 00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:21.599 Have I personally yes, yeah, most people which will say no, 689 00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:23.079 which one. 690 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:24.719 I'd be lying if I was to give you some 691 00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:28.239 sort of a title of them. But I specifically because. 692 00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:31.239 And the reason why I dug into Pythagoras in and 693 00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:34.719 of himself is because so many people we like, we said, 694 00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:37.920 we talked about the Pythagoron theorem so much in high school. 695 00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:39.519 We don't know how to do our tax but we 696 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:41.480 can tell you about some fucking a square plus b 697 00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:44.159 squared right. So like I was curious whenever I found 698 00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:47.679 out that pythagore and himself led a number's cults, and 699 00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:49.079 I was like, well, here's the thing. 700 00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:53.920 Here's the thing though, and again this is the misinterpretation. 701 00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:58.079 There are two phases in Pythagorean history. There's the authentic 702 00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:01.679 Pythagorean UH group, and then there is the neo Pythagora. 703 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:05.880 For sure who who was writing in UH probably around 704 00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.280 the first, second, and third, all the way up to 705 00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:12.280 the fifth and centuries of the Common era. And in 706 00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:14.400 between these there's a little bit of a gap in 707 00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:20.199 in the the the communication. Now you look at you know, 708 00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:27.599 the earliest Pythagoreans, Pythagoras himself wrote nothing, but he he 709 00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:32.280 he had several students that that wrote and their preoccupation 710 00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:34.559 had nothing to do with numbers. As a matter of fact, 711 00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:37.719 doctor Justin Sledge from the Esoterica channel, I. 712 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.480 Know it's actually brother, doctor Justin Sledge. I'm such a 713 00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:42.760 fucking fan of his content, just so we're clear. 714 00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:45.559 So he so he goes into this about how there 715 00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:49.039 is actually no evidence to suggest that Pythagoras gave even 716 00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:50.639 the tiniest fuck about numbers. 717 00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:55.599 So this point also it had nothing to do with triangles, 718 00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:57.760 in nothing to do with numbers. What it was was 719 00:41:57.760 --> 00:41:59.679 occult to personality, and he wanted to be at the 720 00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:02.199 head of it. It's specifically a couple of rules, right 721 00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:06.199 strict vegetarian diets, like you cannot touch meat. 722 00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:08.360 Okay, fine, fine again. 723 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:11.880 Again, I gotta correct you on that. It depends on 724 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:15.000 which which. So we get the bulk of our of 725 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:18.480 our of our information from a couple of sources. Diogenes Laertius, 726 00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:21.159 who writes about the Philosopher's a little bit of Plutarch. 727 00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:23.360 But the main two biographies that you have in the 728 00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:27.079 Pythagorea and Library are Porphyry's Life of Pythagris and the 729 00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.800 Amlicus's Life of Pythagres. And the Amlicus specifically says, of 730 00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:33.599 all the flesh of which it was lawful to sacrifice, 731 00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.760 they partook. This makes more sense than anything else because 732 00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:41.880 these people were extremely, extremely religious and to to when 733 00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:44.199 you made an offering to a god in ancient Greece, 734 00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:46.760 what you would do is everybody would eat and then 735 00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:49.440 you take you take like the thigh bone of the 736 00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:51.599 of the the cattle. Whatever you're eating, you would wrap 737 00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:53.920 the fat around it and chart the fat and the 738 00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:56.480 smoke would go up and with your prayers to the God, 739 00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:58.360 so on and so forth. But it would be it 740 00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:02.559 would have been considered impos Are we sure, we're one 741 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:04.519 hundred percent sure about the reason. 742 00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.280 Why I'm asking is because there was And granted we're 743 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:10.199 talking about mystery cult versus mystery. 744 00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:11.880 Cult here, take away Christianity for two seconds. 745 00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:14.920 We're talking quite a few centuries before the Christians came 746 00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:20.039 on scene, right, And you would have a statue made 747 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:22.880 to name your deity doesn't matter for this principle, but 748 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:26.280 a deity. You would have their mystery cult make offerings 749 00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:28.400 to them on their altar, and it would be a 750 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:31.119 meat and whatever else. They would leave it there to rot, 751 00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:35.159 and they would send their lower level guys to come 752 00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:36.840 at like one in the morning, two in the morning 753 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:38.960 to come take the meat away before it got to rotten. 754 00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:41.960 They wouldn't eat their sacrifices to the God. They would 755 00:43:41.960 --> 00:43:45.519 offer to the God itself and let it oxidize there 756 00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:47.199 in the middle of the street for everybody until it's 757 00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:48.239 stunk to high heavens. 758 00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:52.480 So in the in the main, the larger cults cults 759 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.519 to Zeus so on and so forth, and particular, I mean, 760 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.719 we have these writings in Hessiad, we have them in Homer, 761 00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:03.079 we have them in Avid, we have them in Virgil. Uh, 762 00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:07.719 we've got tons of attestations of this particular feast happening. Now, 763 00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:11.679 if it was a if it was a closed uh 764 00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.880 sort of what we call hieratic, if it was a 765 00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:19.360 hieratic operation, meaning closed only to the priests, then they 766 00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:22.840 would come and the priests would partake of some uh. 767 00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:25.840 Now again you you can, you can, you can look 768 00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:29.199 at for instance, the table of Showbread and the Tabernacle 769 00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:31.679 and the tumble of Solomon, where yes, they would leave 770 00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:33.360 it out for a night, but they go back and 771 00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:36.639 they would they would eat the bread because effectively, to 772 00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:39.719 to to to face this stuff and throw it away 773 00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:44.360 was in its entirety was sort of like unthinkable, especially 774 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:47.320 those cultures back then that did they didn't really have 775 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:50.320 the same food stores that we did. But in the 776 00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:55.679 in the in the public, in the public uh sort 777 00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:58.559 of rituals that that we do have, the the entire 778 00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:01.719 community would partake in these feasts, and it would have 779 00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.360 been considered impious, uh met. And you guys know what 780 00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:09.320 that word means. Uh, to to not partake. So they 781 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:10.760 they're there. 782 00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:11.719 They were. 783 00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:15.000 They were what we would consider by a modern standard. 784 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:18.880 They were fundamentalists. Uh, but that that that extended to it. 785 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:23.119 They that extended to religion as well, the overarching religion 786 00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:25.800 of their day. They participated in that religion, and they 787 00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:28.920 were actually not ostracized from it. 788 00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:33.440 Okay, so aside from the vegetarian thing, which multiple sorts. 789 00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:35.079 Because I was gonna say, I was like, I've just 790 00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:38.000 looked up like seven different sources and they all said 791 00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:40.880 the same thing. Yes, I'm scanning through right now, and 792 00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:42.960 I'm like, well, I mean, to be fair, there is 793 00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:46.719 a lot of literature that is incorrect. But just at 794 00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:49.760 the top, it's it is saying that, it is talking 795 00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.679 about that over and over and over again. 796 00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.760 So I'm this this this is it's it's a common 797 00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:57.800 thing that was that was suggested by somebody like Porphyry, 798 00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:00.000 who was very, very against the eating of animal meat. 799 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.639 But what you gotta understand is that even in the 800 00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:07.679 source materials, the source materials don't agree with each other. 801 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:11.280 So you have an instance of Iamblicus, who's, you know, 802 00:46:11.559 --> 00:46:14.920 a great theorogist. He writes it in his in uh, 803 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:18.000 if you could probably do a word search. Uh, if 804 00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:21.159 you have a pd PDF version of it. But he says, 805 00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:23.599 of all the of all the flesh of which it 806 00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:28.360 was lawful to satirify. So my whole thing is that 807 00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:32.719 it and this is how it works in academia, in scholarship. 808 00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:38.320 If the primary sources don't agree, then there is no consensus. 809 00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:41.360 I'm with you, But there are things that are of 810 00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:45.159 a consensus when it comes to Pythagoris himself. For instance, okay, fine, 811 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:46.800 the vegetarian conversation. 812 00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:47.360 I'm with you. 813 00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:50.719 But they also were very strict about nobody can eat 814 00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:53.239 beans or legomes. That was also a big thing, and 815 00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:57.199 then also a silence for five years before you could 816 00:46:57.199 --> 00:46:59.760 ever learn the first mathematical equation to be a part 817 00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:03.559 of the call to Pythagoras. I'm sorry outside looking in, 818 00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:06.639 and i know I'm very biased on this. This sounds 819 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:11.599 like the worst of a fucking cult. Five years of silence. 820 00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:15.320 Bro bro Well, I mean. 821 00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:17.719 You're yeah, but you're you're you're a podcaster. You have 822 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:19.760 a microphone in front of you. Of course it's gonna 823 00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.360 suck to you. Fair Like, why why would this guy, 824 00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:27.000 why would that group of people be asked to run 825 00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:31.480 the government of Crotona if there wasn't something redeemable about 826 00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:35.480 their ideas. I mean to again, to us, we think 827 00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:39.119 it is unthinkable. But again, you also have monks that 828 00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:43.519 take vows of silence for their for their entire lives. Uh. Now, 829 00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:46.440 we could definitely say, hey, you know, those guys are crazy. 830 00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:49.199 The Buddhist monks are fucking crazy. For the record, I 831 00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:51.599 agree with that, But anyway. 832 00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:53.960 I would say, I would say, yeah, we modern people 833 00:47:54.039 --> 00:48:00.840 balk against that level of restriction on on self expression, 834 00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:05.400 and that we also balk against other people telling us 835 00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:10.960 what to do or staunch individualists, you know. As a consequence, 836 00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:14.880 I think that that on either side of the fence. 837 00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:18.039 I obviously am not a monk. I obviously am a 838 00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:22.239 podcaster or I talk about this stuff. I obviously have 839 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:25.079 not taken vows of silence. But I do think that 840 00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:30.880 the pendulum can can swing too far to either extreme. Sure, 841 00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:36.000 Like now, it's like what that what that like radical 842 00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:44.480 individualism does is it completely desacralizes everything about our world, 843 00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:47.800 and it abstracts us from from the an ancient worldview, 844 00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:52.119 which was much more in tune with you know, not 845 00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:56.360 just nature, but just the overarching cycles of things. So 846 00:48:57.800 --> 00:49:01.000 I tend to try and find that middle, and especially 847 00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:07.719 as somebody who is immersed immersed in the scholarship, I 848 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:11.960 try and exercise a level of epistemological humility, which is 849 00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:17.000 to say, it doesn't matter, It does not matter what 850 00:49:17.079 --> 00:49:20.559 Google says about about what they're telling you about. By that, 851 00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:24.519 I have the fucking Greek over there, and I can 852 00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:30.039 pull it off my shelf say look there there's deviation 853 00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:33.280 in the primary sources. This isn't some guy writing in 854 00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:36.320 the seventies. Isn't somebody writing in the thirties. This is 855 00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:40.800 a neo Pythagorean writing in the second and third centuries 856 00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:43.239 of this era. So and he's this is what he's 857 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:45.920 telling us. So when you approach when you approach things 858 00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:49.039 from the scholarly level, you have to say, okay, there's 859 00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:51.159 a lot of evidence here to suggest that they ate 860 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:55.159 mostly vegetarian, absolutely, but there's this reference here to say 861 00:49:56.760 --> 00:50:00.760 they ate at sacrifices, they partook them of the meat. 862 00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:05.519 So it's I always try and straddle that line. And 863 00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:07.800 the problem, the problem that I come up with again 864 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:11.880 over and over is that when you bring this stuff 865 00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:14.519 to the mainstream there's nothing but extremes. 866 00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:16.639 Sure, people have. 867 00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:20.440 Extreme opinions, they have extreme blame. But the thing is 868 00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:22.159 like they don't really know what. 869 00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:25.679 They don't know, you know, a very fair point. 870 00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:29.039 I did see, I did see a contradiction. Actually, I'm 871 00:50:29.239 --> 00:50:31.719 reading through a scholarly thing. It took me a good 872 00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:34.039 bit to find this one. But this says that while 873 00:50:34.039 --> 00:50:39.840 there is abstinence, the abstinence of meat was ideal. Historical 874 00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:43.039 records indicate the system was flexible, that some reports suggesting 875 00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:47.360 that later generations permitted moderate consumption of meat during rituals. 876 00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:52.000 He himself reportedly advised athletes to eat meat for strength. 877 00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:55.800 So yeah, that was a. 878 00:50:55.719 --> 00:50:56.519 Good bit down. 879 00:50:56.639 --> 00:50:58.760 It talked about the ethics of it, and talked about 880 00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:01.400 flesh and the argument of it. It talked about the 881 00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:04.119 reincarnation of it. And then in the very bottom it 882 00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:05.599 said the little tiny paragraph. 883 00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:08.519 So well, and see, that's the beautiful thing about a 884 00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:11.920 moment like this where you realize, like just how deep 885 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:16.840 you gotta like shovel through the dog shit on something 886 00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:18.719 that you know a lot of us use. I use 887 00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:21.920 Google too, you know there's different versions, right, there's Google 888 00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:23.880 for scholars. A lot of people don't know about that, But. 889 00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.800 I love Google for scholars. I've been using that for decades. 890 00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:31.239 Yes, it's it's fantastic, it's it's wonderful. But even still, 891 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:35.440 you know, there is when you enter this stuff on 892 00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:37.960 it at the real level, and I'll never forget it. 893 00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:40.840 You know, I was just kind of an esotericis interested 894 00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:43.079 in the history of this stuff. I was, you know, 895 00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:48.039 I would say, naturally gifted at certain things. I start 896 00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:51.079 going to these conferences, I start organizing these conferences, and 897 00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:53.079 so that you know they're here in the States, they're 898 00:51:53.239 --> 00:51:56.920 overseas in Egypt. And I got up to give a 899 00:51:56.960 --> 00:52:00.320 presentation and I'm presenting with scholars from all over the 900 00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:02.800 world at the highest level of scholarship. And the first 901 00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:05.440 thing that I like, the first thing I realized, was like, 902 00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:09.320 oh my god, I feel like I'm naked because my 903 00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:12.760 my game compared to these people, my understanding of the 904 00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:15.840 field in its totality. Right, there's certain things you got 905 00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:20.360 to know about methodology, how to find, how to get 906 00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:22.800 to which sources should I be looking at, what can 907 00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:26.159 what can go wrong with translation? You gotta be really 908 00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:29.639 careful which translations you use, especially in the Greek. You 909 00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:32.360 could you could be looking at two different translators. This 910 00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:36.199 is especially true for Plato and reading the same same 911 00:52:36.280 --> 00:52:39.400 dialogue and it's it's it reads completely differently. But I 912 00:52:39.480 --> 00:52:43.440 remember right then and there feeling very embarrassed and being like, okay, 913 00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:46.559 I got to step my game up, and and when 914 00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:50.159 I did, I realized, I'm like, you know, there is 915 00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:52.280 no consensus on anything, which. 916 00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:55.039 Is kind of everything is everything is consistently an argument 917 00:52:56.119 --> 00:52:59.559 with every single There's a lot of historical things that 918 00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:02.320 people and genuinely agree on, but when it comes down 919 00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:05.360 to the details, that's when people start to argue about 920 00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:10.039 specifically almost everything. And being in the field that I 921 00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:13.079 was in, I've read a lot of scholarly research and 922 00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:15.880 it's in constantly back and forth and back and forth. 923 00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:19.239 Even presenting on this podcast, I try to at least 924 00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:22.920 give information of like, hey, this is what I believe 925 00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:25.599 or this is what I'm finding as the main hub, 926 00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:28.639 but these are also what I'm hearing about as well, 927 00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:32.039 because it comes with most research is that you will 928 00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:35.559 have a large body agree with one text, and then 929 00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:38.440 you'll have somebody else that may find somebody that has 930 00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:42.199 a different special dialect that can translate it differently. Then 931 00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:45.840 in those one or two words change the entire meeting 932 00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:48.960 of the text that you're reading, and then that causes 933 00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:52.000 a lot of scholarly debate between all of the historians 934 00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:55.360 and stuff, and so it's it's quite challenging, especially when 935 00:53:55.400 --> 00:53:59.599 you bring in language into it, because then it causes 936 00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:02.639 a lot of conflict because there's a lot of languages 937 00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:06.199 in the dialect specifically that has changed over time, and 938 00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:09.760 we're trying to recurate what it is, and nobody's really 939 00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:13.159 speaking those specific dialects any longer, so then you're trying 940 00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:17.199 to figure out exactly one word differences of what it 941 00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:18.000 could or couldn't be. 942 00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:22.360 So sure, yeah, and language wasn't Yeah, As to your point, 943 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:25.199 the dialect, their language was not systematized the way what 944 00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:28.639 it is today. There's variations in spelling and declension and 945 00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:31.719 all that crazy shit. But one of the greatest examples 946 00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:36.000 of this is in the Platonic dialogues when some translators 947 00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:41.400 choose to translate the word damon, which is diemonium is 948 00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:46.960 the actual tense of it version, but it's they'll some 949 00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:50.440 people will translate it as conscience, but that word really 950 00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:53.360 means spirit, and so a lot of people, a lot 951 00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:57.079 of people will will go around never knowing that. Throughout 952 00:54:57.079 --> 00:55:01.000 the Platonic Dialogues, Socrates keeps stuff, opping to check in 953 00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:04.679 and speak with and speak about this spirit that is 954 00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:07.920 with him, that is telling him what not to do 955 00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:11.239 or or when when not to do things. Uh, it's 956 00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:14.719 very clear from the if from the Greek. I also 957 00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:17.440 happen to be ethnically Greek, so I can I can 958 00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:19.800 read and speak it. But of course this is ancient Greek. 959 00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:21.639 It's not. 960 00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:26.239 Yeah, kkni and and some attic. There's some stuff an 961 00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:30.519 addict too, but but mostly kini yah and uh. You know, 962 00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:33.800 it's a abundantly clear looking at the the the the 963 00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:36.840 Greek text. But you know, again, like to your point, 964 00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:40.800 the translators will will sort of gloss on these things. 965 00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:45.719 And and I think they felt called to modernize it 966 00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:48.239 for the readers of their time. But in doing that 967 00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:51.719 they they didn't meet the text on its own terms, 968 00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:54.400 and they did it in an injustice. This is the 969 00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:57.880 hardest thing is meeting this stuff on its own terms. 970 00:55:57.920 --> 00:55:59.599 We come to all this stuff with a lot of 971 00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:01.280 bag okay. 972 00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:02.719 A lot of biases too. 973 00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:05.760 There's a lot to be said there, there really really is. 974 00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:08.920 And with that to kind of get off the Pythagorea 975 00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:12.039 conversation and get back to the Freemasonry conversation. I have 976 00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:16.239 to ask you, right, So you, as you said, are 977 00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:17.760 not a fan of Pike. 978 00:56:18.440 --> 00:56:20.719 Right, you're not a big proponent of Pike. 979 00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:28.079 Now Morals and Dogma, which is allegedly outside looking in completely, 980 00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:32.000 and I'll acknowledge that this is the way that the 981 00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:35.360 ceremonies and the rituals go from ranked to rank of 982 00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:37.840 the Scottish Rite. And some would argue the York right 983 00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:40.519 and all these things. He basically took what was at 984 00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:44.400 the time forty five hundred different levels and fifty two 985 00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:48.599 different rights and combine them into what we would now 986 00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:53.360 call the organization of the Free and Accepted Masons. Now 987 00:56:53.800 --> 00:56:56.960 that being said, Uberpike obviously had a little bit of 988 00:56:56.960 --> 00:57:01.199 some biases. He wasn't exactly a good do dude, right, 989 00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:04.039 And we would acknowledge that from our current modern day 990 00:57:04.039 --> 00:57:08.440 and age. You are saying that there are contextual differences 991 00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:11.840 that make or break the conversation. There are so many 992 00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:15.800 Masons that are still adhering to Albert Pike's conversation in 993 00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:18.199 his book Morals and Dogma, and still take that book 994 00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:20.920 to be what they would call the Masonic Bible. I 995 00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:24.239 know that's a misnumber. I fully understand this, but they 996 00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:27.119 would still take every word that this man said to 997 00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:31.360 be literal. What is your take on this as per 998 00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:34.519 the modern day Freemasons? 999 00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:41.119 You know, and some of my Scottish Rite brethren may maybe. 1000 00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:43.880 A Scottish writer York right now? Also York right, York, 1001 00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:46.199 York right? So this is the Knight's templar route. 1002 00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:48.559 Correct? Yeah, okay, what level are you? 1003 00:57:48.599 --> 00:57:51.480 If you don't mind me asking, I'm a night templar. 1004 00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:54.920 You're over level twenty then? Correct? 1005 00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:59.239 There's fourteen degrees in York in York, right. 1006 00:57:59.239 --> 00:58:01.559 I say level two because if you were to take 1007 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:03.760 it to a one to one comparison of the Scottish 1008 00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:06.480 in New York, York jumps a couple from here to there, 1009 00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:07.039 you know what I mean? 1010 00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:11.239 Yeah? Yeah, you're probably talking about the Rosequah to the 1011 00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:12.159 eighteenth degree. 1012 00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:14.920 You understand what I'm saying here, brother, break it down 1013 00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:16.679 for them what we're talking about. 1014 00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:19.480 I know all the ritual, I've read it all I've 1015 00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:24.440 I've even seen some of it performed, but it's I'm 1016 00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:27.079 not interested because the thing, the thing that I find 1017 00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:30.800 in Scottish Rite a lot of times is that well, 1018 00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:32.920 first of all, it's like how much can you really do? 1019 00:58:33.239 --> 00:58:35.000 Like I'm not a single guy. 1020 00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:39.199 How much money? Yeah, I mean it's. 1021 00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:42.960 Not that expensive, you know, like dues are typically manageable. 1022 00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:45.719 Otherwise the brethren vote him down, you know, because it 1023 00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:49.039 is it's extremely democratic. But but the thing is, like 1024 00:58:50.760 --> 00:58:54.320 I have found that Scottish Rite is like the key. 1025 00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:56.039 This is gonna be terrible to say. 1026 00:58:55.960 --> 00:58:58.719 Please please, please, by all means, brother, let it fucking go. 1027 00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:02.639 And I haven't interacted with every Scottish Rite valley, but 1028 00:59:03.199 --> 00:59:06.880 some of the people that I have interacted with with you, 1029 00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:12.000 they're like they're they're like all they're all this hush 1030 00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:14.599 hush in this hype about esotericism. It's like a kid 1031 00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:17.840 that's got like the big you know this Like when 1032 00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:19.360 I was in middle school, I'd go over to like 1033 00:59:19.400 --> 00:59:21.960 my friend's house, and you know, his parents could afford 1034 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:24.840 to buy him like this massive drum kit, and meantime 1035 00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:26.920 I had this little janky snare drum I had to 1036 00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:29.519 work all summer to buy myself. But I could play 1037 00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:31.320 the shit out of that thing. And this kid barely 1038 00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:34.079 knows what he's doing behind this massive you know, Peter 1039 00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:37.000 cris drum kit he's playing. It's kind of a similar 1040 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:39.079 thing where like there there's a lot of steam, there's 1041 00:59:39.079 --> 00:59:41.480 a lot of talk about esotericism, and then when you 1042 00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:44.599 really get into it, it's like again like you guys, 1043 00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.599 there's nothing here, it's all fluff. So it's it really 1044 00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:51.960 comes down to that. But the main thing is is 1045 00:59:52.000 --> 01:00:00.480 that the Scottish Rite has no jurisdiction whatsoever, no jururisdiction 1046 01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:06.519 whatsoever over any of the Grand Lodge of Craft or 1047 01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:10.119 or Blue Lodge Freemasonry. So it's it just doesn't work 1048 01:00:10.159 --> 01:00:14.480 that way. It's again it's kind of a side quest. 1049 01:00:14.559 --> 01:00:19.039 It's this guy's interpretation of what freemasonry is. It's you know, 1050 01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:20.960 it's the same thing with the Knights Templar. You know, 1051 01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:23.719 York right is I mean the Royal Arts degree is 1052 01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:27.239 it was considered one of the main degrees when the 1053 01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:30.639 Grand Lodge in England formed. But but most of you know, 1054 01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:34.440 York right is kind of this. It's this way of 1055 01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:39.079 of of I guess bringing the the Free Masonic story, 1056 01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:42.440 which basically ends at the Temple of Solomon for the 1057 01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:45.239 in the in the third degree bringing it into Christianity 1058 01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:48.000 and into chivalric uh. And a lot of this was 1059 01:00:48.039 --> 01:00:51.440 based on this guy, Chevalier Ramsey who who made a 1060 01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:54.719 great oration about how Freemasons were descended from the Knight 1061 01:00:54.760 --> 01:00:57.280 Templar and like created. He was like the Dan Brown 1062 01:00:57.320 --> 01:00:57.880 of his time. 1063 01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:00.960 You know, to break down that one down, what is 1064 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:03.519 your take on that? So many people will say, Oh, well, 1065 01:01:03.559 --> 01:01:07.360 clearly the builders of the temples and the pyramids of 1066 01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:11.079 Egypt clearly became the Knights Templar. Clearly became the Freemasons. 1067 01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:16.039 I specifically, and somebody who does not see the connection, 1068 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:19.320 I understand why people would put these together for a 1069 01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:23.280 non fictional book, like some damn Brown shit, Like you're saying, 1070 01:01:24.280 --> 01:01:27.679 there is little to no evidence whatsoever to say that 1071 01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:29.719 the Knights Templar became what we would know is the 1072 01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:32.719 Freemasons today. But it would also stand the reason that 1073 01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:35.360 the Freemasons of today would take on some of the 1074 01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:40.119 ideologies of the Templars of old, indoctrinate them into themselves, 1075 01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:42.039 and then rebrand if you will. 1076 01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:46.920 Yeah, I mean, you know. A really great Masonic scholar 1077 01:01:47.039 --> 01:01:52.400 from the the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. His 1078 01:01:52.519 --> 01:01:56.400 name is W. L. Wilmshurst Walter Leslie Wilmshurst. I like 1079 01:01:56.519 --> 01:01:58.960 the way he discussed it because he's writing at a 1080 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:05.400 time where there's this overarching trend to connect freemasonry, all 1081 01:02:05.559 --> 01:02:10.079 esotericism to like ancient Egypt, like root it there like that, 1082 01:02:10.239 --> 01:02:11.840 why a trail? 1083 01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:15.400 Help me make this make sense. I've tried so hard. 1084 01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:18.960 They try to make connections to the ancient pyramids, the 1085 01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:23.039 Stone Hinge to the pyramids of Cambodia because obviously a 1086 01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:26.119 fucking period in. It's like, wait, what do you mean 1087 01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:30.039 period in? There's so much context missing here, dog. 1088 01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:35.559 It's it's unfortunately it's a case of universalism or universalized. 1089 01:02:35.559 --> 01:02:38.719 It's the universalizing current. They want to reduce everything down 1090 01:02:38.760 --> 01:02:42.559 to a single sort of monosystem, you know, a single 1091 01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:46.760 world religion. There's just exoteric and esoteric versions of it. 1092 01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:52.199 I mean there's there's some good points there other points. 1093 01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:54.679 It's just kind of like, wow, you're you're flying past 1094 01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:56.760 these red flags and not even stopping a look. 1095 01:02:56.800 --> 01:02:58.920 But I understand at least a point right to say 1096 01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:00.880 they're able to cut stores, how are they able to 1097 01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:02.639 cut stones of bronze ata technology? 1098 01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:05.840 Okay, I'm with you. There's some wild shit, we can 1099 01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:09.920 have this conversation, but to say the Pyramids of Egypt 1100 01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:13.320 are clearly connected to Stone Hinge, are clearly connected to 1101 01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:15.000 the Hope. 1102 01:03:14.719 --> 01:03:19.800 Well Indian Mounds in Ohio, like because obviously, what do 1103 01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:23.039 you mean, fucking obviously I must have missed the fucking 1104 01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:26.000 obvious red flags here bro Well. 1105 01:03:26.039 --> 01:03:28.960 And that's the thing, you know, and you see a 1106 01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:32.519 lot of it in all organizations, but particularly one, particularly 1107 01:03:32.599 --> 01:03:37.159 ones with titles and sashes and and things like that. 1108 01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:39.760 You fall into a real trap of like, I'm a 1109 01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:43.599 part of this special thing, and so where where this 1110 01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:46.599 is our lineage? And and unfortunately, you know, you will 1111 01:03:46.679 --> 01:03:49.960 find people that come to something like freemasonry kind of 1112 01:03:50.039 --> 01:03:52.159 your point before. I don't really see too many people 1113 01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:55.840 in it for the networking, just because on the local level, 1114 01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:01.000 it's like, you know, it's carpenters, it's plus, it's people 1115 01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:03.239 who stock shelves at the supermarket, that kind of stuff. 1116 01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:08.039 But but that's relatively new. Right fifty years ago, you 1117 01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:10.719 if you were somebody of note, you would have been 1118 01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:13.840 a freemason. These days, it seems to have gotten back 1119 01:04:13.840 --> 01:04:14.800 to the craft worked. 1120 01:04:15.159 --> 01:04:15.320 Right. 1121 01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:17.519 By craft work, I don't mean the esotech, I mean 1122 01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:22.480 like actual plumbers, actual carpenters, actual pipe fitters, and things 1123 01:04:22.519 --> 01:04:22.840 like this. 1124 01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:27.159 But the Masonic numbers have been dwindling for at least 1125 01:04:27.159 --> 01:04:29.000 a decade now correct. 1126 01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:30.360 Yeah, probably longer. 1127 01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:30.599 Yeah. 1128 01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:32.119 I think it's a great I think it's a good thing. 1129 01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:35.519 Or break this down so many people would disagree with 1130 01:04:35.559 --> 01:04:36.320 what you just said. 1131 01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:37.960 Break that down further, brother. 1132 01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:39.760 No, I think it's a great thing. I think. So 1133 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:43.440 there's there's this period in between the First and Second 1134 01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:47.079 World Wars, and then especially right after the Second World War. Yeah, 1135 01:04:47.239 --> 01:04:50.519 I have this phenomenon showing up, especially in American culture, 1136 01:04:50.559 --> 01:04:54.559 called joinerism, and it's like everybody was Rotary club, Alex clubs, 1137 01:04:54.880 --> 01:05:00.800 the whole whole Neighborhoodwis club. Yeah yeah, yeah, whole neighborhood 1138 01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:03.119 was a gigantic family. I think there are good things 1139 01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:06.159 to that, but I think when it comes to Freemasonry, 1140 01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:08.920 what it did was it allowed the ranks to be 1141 01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:12.960 filled with people who did not understand esotericism, and they 1142 01:05:13.039 --> 01:05:17.559 and their Christianity rubbed up against that. And even to 1143 01:05:17.599 --> 01:05:20.840 this day, if you say the word occultism, they automatically 1144 01:05:20.840 --> 01:05:24.559 think satanism. They hear the word cult without realizing like no, 1145 01:05:24.679 --> 01:05:28.480 it's actually it's a Latin word meaning hidden from the eye, right, 1146 01:05:28.519 --> 01:05:32.320 because the word for eye was oculus. So occultous is 1147 01:05:32.360 --> 01:05:36.159 that you can't see the things that are causing this 1148 01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:41.199 to happen, hidden virtues, hidden qualities, hidden causality. But you 1149 01:05:41.239 --> 01:05:46.719 still see that people have a real gut reaction against 1150 01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:49.199 any kind of esotericism to freemasonry, so they strip it 1151 01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:52.000 out completely. But my loud ass goes around and make 1152 01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:56.159 doing presentations to really challenge that among the brothers. Because 1153 01:05:56.559 --> 01:05:59.400 if freemasonry is good for a single thing, I think 1154 01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:01.239 it's good for men. But if I had to say 1155 01:06:01.239 --> 01:06:03.559 it's good for a single thing, even more so than charity, 1156 01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:07.800 it is a great forum for the exchange of ideas, 1157 01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:09.840 or at least it can be. Because no one is 1158 01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:12.559 higher than anyone else. In a free Masonic lodge. We 1159 01:06:12.719 --> 01:06:15.079 meet on the level there. It doesn't even matter the 1160 01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:17.880 Worshipful Master in the East. You respect his office, but 1161 01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:20.840 he's not higher than you. So you can really talk 1162 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:22.159 about whatever you want. 1163 01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:25.159 In a lot of let me ask you what you 1164 01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:28.519 just said, not to poke holes. I'm hoping you're able 1165 01:06:28.519 --> 01:06:30.199 to give a bit of distinction. 1166 01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:31.000 Here. 1167 01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:35.480 A worshipful Master in the east. You're saying that he 1168 01:06:35.599 --> 01:06:38.639 is not higher than a brother that is going towards 1169 01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:42.639 the east. As some might say, Oh I'm a traveler, 1170 01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:46.239 Oh I'm heading east, or I'm a traveler heading west, 1171 01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:49.159 meaning that I've already gotten the illumination. I'm heading back 1172 01:06:49.239 --> 01:06:52.880 to you know, elevate my younger and lesser brothers in 1173 01:06:52.960 --> 01:06:53.880 the way of the light. 1174 01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:56.239 You're saying there's no hierarchy here. 1175 01:06:56.760 --> 01:07:02.280 There's no hierarchy among master Masons, the level master Masons. Yes, 1176 01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:05.400 at the third level there are offices in a lodge, 1177 01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:09.519 but that doesn't make the brother like higher than me. 1178 01:07:09.880 --> 01:07:13.480 Then break this down for me again, completely fish out 1179 01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:16.159 of water trying to look in here. You got a 1180 01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:21.079 twenty seventh degree order of the fluty flaws of the 1181 01:07:21.119 --> 01:07:22.719 floody does it doesn't matter? 1182 01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:23.159 Right? 1183 01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:24.840 Cool Graham Pooba of the shit. 1184 01:07:25.360 --> 01:07:29.480 Who is talking to a Master Mason level three who 1185 01:07:29.559 --> 01:07:32.960 is deciding whether he's going Scottish or York. Right, This 1186 01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:36.480 guy's been Scottish right for years. He has all the monikers, 1187 01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:37.239 all the things. 1188 01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:40.039 Whatever. You're saying, it's a lateral. 1189 01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:45.800 Move rather than a elevated move. So many people would 1190 01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:48.559 disagree with you on this one bro break this down 1191 01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:51.920 for us to show that this means that the literal move. 1192 01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:56.039 But these these people who would be disagreeing with me, 1193 01:07:56.119 --> 01:07:57.400 are they Masons? 1194 01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:01.280 And again outside looking at there are some Masons that 1195 01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:04.679 would disagree with you. For the record, these are the 1196 01:08:04.719 --> 01:08:08.599 same Masons that would say, oh, the Prince Henry Lodge 1197 01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:10.199 are not real Masons. 1198 01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:13.639 Yeah, it's at that At that point, it's like this 1199 01:08:13.880 --> 01:08:16.319 elitism based off fat That's. 1200 01:08:16.279 --> 01:08:18.000 What it breaks down to, dude. 1201 01:08:19.399 --> 01:08:23.079 But at the end of the day, like it's we 1202 01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:27.199 say it constantly, it's it's it's actually in like it's 1203 01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:31.000 it's in some form of Masonic bylaw. Forget tradition. I 1204 01:08:31.039 --> 01:08:35.239 mean it's in many places, it's written into masonry that 1205 01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:39.720 there is no actually actual higher degree than the third. 1206 01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:43.520 So it's and this was this is the way. Functionally, 1207 01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:47.279 Let's say let's say, okay, well that's debatable. Let's say, well, 1208 01:08:47.319 --> 01:08:49.960 like we can't find it in our we can't find 1209 01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:53.680 it in our book, okay, so but functionally, can the 1210 01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:55.960 Scottish righte come over to you the Blue Lodge until 1211 01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:57.840 you start telling you what to do and start bossing 1212 01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:01.439 you around and start talking to just like actually as absolutely. 1213 01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:03.039 Not you're gonna have it, and they I don't. 1214 01:09:02.840 --> 01:09:06.479 Know, absolutely not absolutely as a matter of fact, Scottish Right, 1215 01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:12.159 you know they are. It's almost famous for for for 1216 01:09:12.680 --> 01:09:15.279 having issues with either your right groups at a local 1217 01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:19.359 level or sometimes uh, it's somewhere in the history. You know, 1218 01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:20.800 it's like because a lot of these a lot of 1219 01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:22.760 these lodges, a lot of these valleys, they have like 1220 01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:25.720 hundreds of years of history and at some point you 1221 01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:28.840 can see like this battle, this disagreement because at one 1222 01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:31.239 point Scottish Right, particularly in the South, they had a 1223 01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:34.520 lot of real estate, you know, they really really did, 1224 01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:37.800 and and in the eighties they started divesting themselves of 1225 01:09:37.840 --> 01:09:40.239 all that, which has kind of left a catastrophe for 1226 01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:47.119 modern modern But but it's you know, functionally, it does 1227 01:09:47.199 --> 01:09:50.359 not work that way. I mean, if you've reached the 1228 01:09:50.399 --> 01:09:53.359 third degree, like you are on the level, there is 1229 01:09:53.439 --> 01:09:55.800 nobody that is higher than you or can tell you 1230 01:09:55.840 --> 01:09:56.319 what to do. 1231 01:09:56.760 --> 01:09:59.520 You say, they're always on the level, if you might if. 1232 01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:02.439 You yeah, yeah, And technically what we say, also at 1233 01:10:02.520 --> 01:10:05.159 least in the North Carolina working is we're all travelers 1234 01:10:05.159 --> 01:10:08.399 headed west because west is death. You know, we're all 1235 01:10:08.439 --> 01:10:12.520 headed to death. And that's if anything. You know, if 1236 01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:15.800 I could put freemasonry into a single kind of idea, 1237 01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:18.880 it's it's a memento more. But the thing is, you 1238 01:10:18.920 --> 01:10:22.520 know a lot of people know memento MORI remember death, 1239 01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:24.479 but they don't know the second half of that, which 1240 01:10:24.520 --> 01:10:30.439 is ergo memento vivieri, which the full thing translates to 1241 01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:36.920 remember death and therefore remember to live. Yes, so so, 1242 01:10:37.119 --> 01:10:41.039 And that's not live like hedonist, it's lived. Help people, 1243 01:10:41.199 --> 01:10:42.600 be a boon to your community. 1244 01:10:42.680 --> 01:10:47.800 It means yes, it means live as if you might 1245 01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:50.239 die tomorrow, so live today to the fullest. That doesn't 1246 01:10:50.239 --> 01:10:54.079 mean live for yourself. That means live for your community, 1247 01:10:54.640 --> 01:10:59.119 live for your family, give a fuck, truly give back 1248 01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:00.560 to the Yes. 1249 01:11:01.640 --> 01:11:03.760 I mean part of part of your obligation in masonry 1250 01:11:03.840 --> 01:11:06.600 is to not neglect your other duties. We have. We 1251 01:11:06.640 --> 01:11:08.880 have a saying like if if you can't do something 1252 01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:11.319 because you got the kids or you have a family obligation, 1253 01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:14.600 you just say it's my my cable tow isn't long 1254 01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:17.000 enough that month. You know, it's like I can't, I 1255 01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:20.600 can't I have responsibilities to do you in some launches, 1256 01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:22.479 I mean you'll somebody will come up to you and 1257 01:11:22.520 --> 01:11:26.960 be like, listen, brother, Like you know, because every time 1258 01:11:27.800 --> 01:11:31.239 one Mason offers advice to another, it has to remain 1259 01:11:31.880 --> 01:11:35.439 very very fraternal. But somebody, you know, a good brother 1260 01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:39.680 would come and be like, listen, don't don't neglect, Like, 1261 01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:42.000 we'll figure it out. We'll get the extra guy to 1262 01:11:42.039 --> 01:11:44.479 do the degree, we'll get the extra guy to help 1263 01:11:44.560 --> 01:11:48.039 run the pot luck or whatever it is. Don't neglect 1264 01:11:48.079 --> 01:11:50.239 what you got going on at home, because that's not 1265 01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:51.199 what this is about. 1266 01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:51.720 Right. 1267 01:11:54.399 --> 01:11:54.760 Yeah. 1268 01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:59.119 Ok, So to circle back, So not only we've been 1269 01:11:59.239 --> 01:12:01.439 we've been hammering the Mason's a good bit here. 1270 01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:04.000 You're not just a freemason. 1271 01:12:04.479 --> 01:12:10.399 You are a esotericist, correct, Yeah, I'd say so. So 1272 01:12:10.720 --> 01:12:14.319 you also acknowledge the Order of the Golden Dawn. Now 1273 01:12:14.680 --> 01:12:17.960 break this down for us, because there are so many people, 1274 01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:22.439 so many scholars, and I will use the quotes on 1275 01:12:22.479 --> 01:12:28.399 the term scholars with very liberal quotes on this to 1276 01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:30.279 say that the Order of the Golden. 1277 01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:33.479 Dawn started out as a way to try to. 1278 01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:37.840 Find the philosopher's stone, esotericism, whatever. 1279 01:12:37.880 --> 01:12:39.039 But there was a big split. 1280 01:12:40.640 --> 01:12:44.840 We're negating the rosa Crucian conversation let's just talk about 1281 01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:48.359 the East versus the West, right, Madame Blovotsky was clearly 1282 01:12:48.399 --> 01:12:51.199 out of her fucking mind. And most people that will 1283 01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:55.479 look at her book and also juxtaposed that against the 1284 01:12:55.640 --> 01:12:58.760 historical narrative will say, oh, wait a minute, she may 1285 01:12:58.800 --> 01:12:59.920 have gone to end. 1286 01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:01.920 You know, she didn't meet the people that she said 1287 01:13:01.960 --> 01:13:04.840 she met. This is obviously a lie. Whatever. 1288 01:13:05.039 --> 01:13:08.560 Fine, fine, But to say that the Order of the 1289 01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:13.039 Golden Dawn was actively trying to find the fountain of 1290 01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:19.319 youth through esoteric and some would say therefore satanic means 1291 01:13:20.119 --> 01:13:21.920 your thoughts. 1292 01:13:22.479 --> 01:13:24.560 Well, I've been a member of the Golden Dawn now 1293 01:13:24.680 --> 01:13:30.039 for about a decade. Yeah, I've done two documentary presentations 1294 01:13:30.079 --> 01:13:33.760 on my channel about it, full edited and everything. 1295 01:13:35.119 --> 01:13:36.920 I've known a secret organization. 1296 01:13:38.520 --> 01:13:40.279 I'm sitting here talking to talking to you about it. 1297 01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:44.560 Of course, I'm just making sure we're all keeping it 1298 01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:46.439 on the up and up here. So like you talking 1299 01:13:46.479 --> 01:13:49.479 about this, are you going to be ousted as a no. 1300 01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:53.479 Sort of a you know, a plug? What was the term? 1301 01:13:53.760 --> 01:13:55.600 What's the term when they say that somebody has turned 1302 01:13:55.600 --> 01:13:57.800 a cia op that now talks about it? 1303 01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:00.760 But was the term? 1304 01:14:00.920 --> 01:14:03.239 I don't know, but I've people have accused me of 1305 01:14:03.279 --> 01:14:05.039 being a plant or something that. 1306 01:14:05.239 --> 01:14:08.039 You know, are you a fucking playing for the Golden 1307 01:14:08.119 --> 01:14:09.279 Dawn and the Freemasons? 1308 01:14:09.319 --> 01:14:10.600 Bro? Where are we at? 1309 01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:13.199 I mean to be one hundred percent honest with you. 1310 01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:16.039 If that's even crossing your mind, like you, you need 1311 01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:19.119 to lay off the fucking weed because you you might 1312 01:14:19.159 --> 01:14:22.800 be smoking yourself retarded. I don't mean you, but like anybody. 1313 01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:27.279 To me, I'm on behalf of the people that might 1314 01:14:27.319 --> 01:14:30.359 be listening to this pod have those questions the fucking 1315 01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:30.960 throw at you. 1316 01:14:31.039 --> 01:14:32.199 I'm asking on behalf of them. 1317 01:14:32.359 --> 01:14:35.520 And look, I've been you know, I've I've done shows 1318 01:14:35.560 --> 01:14:38.840 like uh Tinfoil Hat with with my man Sam, who's 1319 01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:43.760 a great guy and I loves great his his his audience. Uh, 1320 01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:46.880 you know, they're they are convinced first of all that 1321 01:14:46.920 --> 01:14:47.880 I'm Jewish? 1322 01:14:48.159 --> 01:14:50.920 Are you? Are you fucking you dog? 1323 01:14:55.039 --> 01:14:58.319 It's just so fucking weird that like nobody will let 1324 01:14:58.359 --> 01:15:00.960 you tell them, will let you tell them who you are. 1325 01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:05.039 It's like it's like if I if this is It's 1326 01:15:05.039 --> 01:15:06.079 like if I want to go on a date with 1327 01:15:06.119 --> 01:15:08.560 a girl and I'm sitting there telling her the entire 1328 01:15:08.640 --> 01:15:11.039 fucking time, who I think she is. I'm never gonna 1329 01:15:11.039 --> 01:15:11.960 I'm never gonna. 1330 01:15:11.760 --> 01:15:13.159 Know anything about her clearly. 1331 01:15:16.279 --> 01:15:19.760 So yeah, I mean people have accused me of of that, 1332 01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:22.840 but like, why the fuck would I do that. I 1333 01:15:22.840 --> 01:15:25.319 don't make any money, Like it costs me money to 1334 01:15:25.359 --> 01:15:28.439 go to these goddamn meetings and being an administrator, Like 1335 01:15:28.479 --> 01:15:30.920 it's like, what the hell would I get out of it? 1336 01:15:31.119 --> 01:15:34.039 If if I if I even got a whiff that 1337 01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:36.439 there was any nefarious activity going on, I would just 1338 01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:38.279 fucking leave because, like, I have a life. 1339 01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:43.119 Your local lodge that you pay dues to, are they listed? 1340 01:15:43.119 --> 01:15:45.359 Is a five to one seed three or five one 1341 01:15:45.399 --> 01:15:45.840 seed ten? 1342 01:15:46.159 --> 01:15:47.640 Just curious? 1343 01:15:48.760 --> 01:15:54.039 I I can't give you an an an absolutely accurate answer, 1344 01:15:54.159 --> 01:15:55.319 and so I'm gonna. 1345 01:15:55.520 --> 01:15:56.520 Fair enough, fair enough. 1346 01:15:56.920 --> 01:16:00.199 I just we we I know that we operate on 1347 01:16:00.239 --> 01:16:04.079 a charitable basis. We donate regularly to the Children's Home, 1348 01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:09.399 the Masonic Retirement Home Fund, and to the local local 1349 01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:11.560 Red Cross and VA Hospital. 1350 01:16:14.159 --> 01:16:16.439 Say I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. 1351 01:16:16.479 --> 01:16:21.159 We are. We are technically we're not able. Every year 1352 01:16:21.199 --> 01:16:26.039 I host in Ashville the uh the Southeastern Masonic Symposium, 1353 01:16:26.399 --> 01:16:30.760 and we were forbidden from from making a penny off 1354 01:16:30.800 --> 01:16:33.680 of anything we do. You cannot make. You must make 1355 01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:37.399 zero dollars if you do anything Masonic. That's in the 1356 01:16:37.439 --> 01:16:40.720 fucking by laws. You can't make a red scent. You 1357 01:16:40.800 --> 01:16:46.600 will bleed yourself dry. That's fine, but but nobody will 1358 01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:50.600 pay you to do this. So it's you know. My 1359 01:16:50.720 --> 01:16:54.600 thing is that, like most Golden Donners don't like the 1360 01:16:54.640 --> 01:17:00.399 perspective I take right really, just because first of all, 1361 01:17:00.399 --> 01:17:05.439 again there's no consensus, Like I fucking hate Enochian. I 1362 01:17:05.479 --> 01:17:07.640 don't like doing an Okian. I think the whole thing 1363 01:17:07.720 --> 01:17:12.920 is completely suspect. Yeah, d and Kelly's stuff, It's just 1364 01:17:13.000 --> 01:17:15.640 not my bag. But the thing is, there are Golden 1365 01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:19.119 Dawn magicians that are obsessed with a Nokian and they hate, 1366 01:17:19.359 --> 01:17:22.000 they hate any time somebody even suggests it might be 1367 01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:24.319 a little you know. So so yeah, I mean. 1368 01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:26.600 I get you are the outlier on this one to 1369 01:17:26.640 --> 01:17:29.960 say that you, as a member of the Hermitic Order 1370 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:32.159 of the Golden Dawn, do knock it down with the 1371 01:17:32.279 --> 01:17:33.319 Nokian magic. 1372 01:17:33.920 --> 01:17:35.520 I do that, I have to, but I don't. 1373 01:17:35.560 --> 01:17:39.880 I don't sit there. I don't sit there like leaning 1374 01:17:39.960 --> 01:17:43.399 into it the way people do, like totally in fully 1375 01:17:43.520 --> 01:17:48.640 believing that I'm communicating with this specific type of entity 1376 01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:51.399 or being. It's just okay, there's no way to. 1377 01:17:51.359 --> 01:17:54.479 Know break this down for us. Please, please, for the 1378 01:17:54.560 --> 01:17:59.840 love of God, stop everything. Okay, let's take a let's 1379 01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:01.039 take a hard pause here. 1380 01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:05.359 Yeah, let's talk about a Nochian magic, because a lot 1381 01:18:05.399 --> 01:18:08.600 of people will make the connection between the Hermetic Order 1382 01:18:08.640 --> 01:18:12.279 of the Golden Dawn and a Nochian magic. And you're 1383 01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:18.079 saying that you don't believe that you specifically you are 1384 01:18:18.359 --> 01:18:22.720 connecting with some sort of a spiritual entity. I'm not 1385 01:18:22.720 --> 01:18:24.520 gonna say a god. I'm not gonna say angel, I'm 1386 01:18:24.560 --> 01:18:26.239 not gonna say a demon. I'm trying to be as 1387 01:18:26.399 --> 01:18:30.079 liberal as I can be. Here is open ended to 1388 01:18:30.279 --> 01:18:32.560 say that you don't get down with a Nokia magic. 1389 01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:37.560 A lot of members of your organization would but call 1390 01:18:37.600 --> 01:18:38.279 you a fraud. 1391 01:18:40.239 --> 01:18:44.199 Well, I mean, I I don't know that they would, 1392 01:18:44.960 --> 01:18:48.279 because again, a lot of these people I do podcasts 1393 01:18:48.279 --> 01:18:50.560 with I talk to, you know, I'm an outlier, but 1394 01:18:51.199 --> 01:18:54.319 it's not that salacious. I do think that there is 1395 01:18:55.520 --> 01:18:58.720 uh the people that really lean into it, that sort 1396 01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:02.680 of identify them so by the practice of Enochian magic, 1397 01:19:03.199 --> 01:19:06.720 they they don't like it when anybody sort of suggests 1398 01:19:07.119 --> 01:19:09.279 because it's it's happened before in the history of the 1399 01:19:09.279 --> 01:19:12.600 Golden Dawn, right, Paul Foster Case left, he didn't want 1400 01:19:12.600 --> 01:19:15.520 to do any Inochian. There have been other examples of 1401 01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:18.119 people that have kind of walked away from the Enochian thing, 1402 01:19:18.239 --> 01:19:22.800 not carried it over. But it's it's just something that 1403 01:19:22.840 --> 01:19:26.399 I'm knowing the history and then also kind of like 1404 01:19:26.680 --> 01:19:28.399 just having my experience. It should be said that the 1405 01:19:28.439 --> 01:19:32.319 Golden Dawn practice is a radically different form of Enochian 1406 01:19:33.199 --> 01:19:36.359 than Dan Kelly actually kind of established in their journals. 1407 01:19:36.399 --> 01:19:38.960 It breaks it down because some of our cult members 1408 01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:40.760 may never have heard of what you just said. 1409 01:19:40.840 --> 01:19:41.640 Yeah, break this down. 1410 01:19:42.359 --> 01:19:46.079 Enochian magic is essentially a form of magic that is 1411 01:19:46.119 --> 01:19:54.359 predicated on the use of certain alphabets, certain symbols, and 1412 01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:58.439 certain modes of practice for lack of a better term, 1413 01:19:58.760 --> 01:20:03.159 implements and things like that that allow one to communicate 1414 01:20:03.239 --> 01:20:09.520 with a group of angelic supposedly angelic entities that are 1415 01:20:09.560 --> 01:20:13.359 often referred to as you know, Kean angels. Now in 1416 01:20:13.600 --> 01:20:16.920 the sixteen hundred's, John d who was a court astrologer 1417 01:20:16.960 --> 01:20:24.439 for Queen Elizabeth, he began a series of channel to communications. 1418 01:20:24.640 --> 01:20:28.079 He couldn't really do the scrying. Scrying is when you 1419 01:20:28.119 --> 01:20:30.800 peer into a crystal ball, a bowl of water, a 1420 01:20:30.880 --> 01:20:35.399 black mirror, something, in order to create a focal point 1421 01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:38.880 for the imaginal faculty. So because what you're seeing isn't 1422 01:20:38.880 --> 01:20:41.680 actually appearing in the mirror of the water, it's here, 1423 01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:45.560 but it's you're overlaying it onto that thing. So he 1424 01:20:45.960 --> 01:20:48.720 couldn't really do that very well, and so he hired 1425 01:20:48.720 --> 01:20:52.039 a guy named Edward Kelly, who actually ended up being 1426 01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:56.000 a little bit of a questionable character, but Dee was 1427 01:20:56.119 --> 01:20:59.720 convinced that he was at least talented in this. And 1428 01:20:59.800 --> 01:21:02.239 so if it began, over the course of seven years 1429 01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:05.880 a project of communication with these angels that led them 1430 01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:09.520 all over the European continent and embroiled them in politics, 1431 01:21:09.920 --> 01:21:13.640 and ultimately their their lives ended in misfortune, poverty, and ruin. 1432 01:21:14.119 --> 01:21:19.359 So my thing is that we don't do that kind 1433 01:21:19.399 --> 01:21:23.880 of like what we would call, you know, grimoire type 1434 01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:27.520 of magic that that the Enochian system was originally laid 1435 01:21:27.520 --> 01:21:29.720 out to be. It's actually a little bit more of 1436 01:21:29.760 --> 01:21:33.279 a sophisticated system. A lot of quote unquote d D 1437 01:21:33.520 --> 01:21:39.399 purists or Enochian purists. They they are very they very 1438 01:21:39.439 --> 01:21:41.560 much look down their nose at the golden dawns kind 1439 01:21:41.560 --> 01:21:44.479 of innovation of Enochian where they boil it down to 1440 01:21:45.039 --> 01:21:49.359 a different system which is way, way, way too complicated 1441 01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:52.479 to explain in anything less than a half an hour, 1442 01:21:52.600 --> 01:21:55.479 because it's so fucking intricate. It's another reason why I 1443 01:21:55.520 --> 01:21:58.399 hate it. It's like, we don't need to be doing this. 1444 01:21:58.479 --> 01:22:00.399 Kind of stuff making it way more calm, okay, for 1445 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:00.920 no reason. 1446 01:22:01.439 --> 01:22:04.920 Yeah, exactly, It's like Richmond's already hard, like. 1447 01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:05.960 Like why do we have to I can remember all 1448 01:22:05.960 --> 01:22:08.159 this shit and then add more complicated crap on top 1449 01:22:08.199 --> 01:22:09.119 of it, like no, thank you. 1450 01:22:09.199 --> 01:22:12.920 Yeah yeah. So so it's but you know, magicians are 1451 01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:18.560 always ceremonialists. They're always in looking for the next kind 1452 01:22:18.560 --> 01:22:21.079 of thing and some more gear. But yeah, I'm not 1453 01:22:21.119 --> 01:22:24.560 a big practitioner of Younokian. I'm very outspoken about it, 1454 01:22:24.600 --> 01:22:27.560 so most people, most people are are kind of aware 1455 01:22:27.960 --> 01:22:30.439 of that, at least in my my personal circle. I 1456 01:22:30.479 --> 01:22:33.479 still will work the system, but I have my own 1457 01:22:33.520 --> 01:22:37.279 safeguards and and so I'm not I'm not not doing 1458 01:22:37.319 --> 01:22:41.880 the work. It's it's just, uh, they're the Golden Dawn itself. 1459 01:22:41.920 --> 01:22:46.560 Even though Enokian technically is the capstone of what is 1460 01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:51.600 considered stylistically the uniquely the uniquely Golden Dawn system of magic, 1461 01:22:52.279 --> 01:22:56.560 it encompasses, particularly in the modern day, almost all of 1462 01:22:56.680 --> 01:22:59.680 Western ceremonial So there's so many other things to do, 1463 01:23:00.079 --> 01:23:02.199 There's so many other cool things to do. So you know, 1464 01:23:02.640 --> 01:23:04.479 it's not like I'm not I'm like just sitting here 1465 01:23:04.520 --> 01:23:07.039 twiddling my thumbs, like I have a whole list of 1466 01:23:07.119 --> 01:23:09.119 things that I have to get done. They have nothing 1467 01:23:09.159 --> 01:23:12.359 to do with Enochian. So that's that's another thing that's 1468 01:23:12.439 --> 01:23:15.239 that's kind of interesting. And and a lot of people 1469 01:23:15.239 --> 01:23:17.279 that go on the record and talk about the Golden 1470 01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:19.560 Dawn have are not in the Inner Order, you know, 1471 01:23:19.720 --> 01:23:23.439 like very few of are actually have have gotten even 1472 01:23:23.479 --> 01:23:26.520 beyond the first grade of the Inner Order. Okay, which 1473 01:23:27.520 --> 01:23:30.079 you know, I'm I'm kind of I'm way past that 1474 01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:33.640 by now, but hm, but yeah, I mean, the Golden 1475 01:23:33.680 --> 01:23:36.640 Dawn itself has nothing to do with the Fountain of Youth. 1476 01:23:36.680 --> 01:23:38.840 They didn't really give a shit about alchemy, which actually 1477 01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:41.199 was a disappointment to me because when I was looking 1478 01:23:41.239 --> 01:23:45.399 through the earliest documents, which are almost all found at 1479 01:23:46.680 --> 01:23:50.600 the Freemason's Hall and the Sria Library. I was like, 1480 01:23:51.319 --> 01:23:54.159 they had this one old guy named W. A. Ayton, 1481 01:23:54.760 --> 01:23:58.159 and he was like apparently their link to the alchemy 1482 01:23:58.199 --> 01:24:02.239 of the past. And he says in multiple this letters 1483 01:24:02.239 --> 01:24:04.000 like he didn't have the stomach for a certain type 1484 01:24:04.039 --> 01:24:07.800 of alchemical work. He like never even did it, and uh, 1485 01:24:07.880 --> 01:24:10.279 you don't. A lot of people come to the Golden Dawn, 1486 01:24:10.399 --> 01:24:12.800 now right. I'm an administrator, so I'm in charge of 1487 01:24:12.840 --> 01:24:17.760 like interviewing them, vetting them, taking them, the learning about them, 1488 01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:20.079 you know, through conversation with them. A lot of people 1489 01:24:20.119 --> 01:24:24.079 are like absolutely in a state of absolute dejection when 1490 01:24:24.119 --> 01:24:26.760 they get into the like okay, I'm in I'm in 1491 01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:29.760 the the last grade of the outer order, and there's 1492 01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:31.720 still no alchemy. What's going on here? 1493 01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:36.439 The order versus the inner order, give us a little 1494 01:24:36.439 --> 01:24:37.479 bit of course. 1495 01:24:37.680 --> 01:24:40.560 Yeah, yeah, So the outer order is the Golden Dawn. 1496 01:24:41.319 --> 01:24:46.239 The inner order is called the Rossi rubier Oria krukis 1497 01:24:46.279 --> 01:24:48.760 the ruby rose and cross of gold. It's Rosi Krucian. 1498 01:24:49.920 --> 01:24:53.680 So the inner order is that's where you So I'll 1499 01:24:53.680 --> 01:24:57.359 put it this way. The outer order is a trajectory, 1500 01:24:57.439 --> 01:25:04.239 a system of spiritual alchemy. So spiritual alchemy, absolutely, it's 1501 01:25:04.319 --> 01:25:08.079 a very very cool, very sufficient system of breaking down 1502 01:25:08.159 --> 01:25:13.000 the psyche into four parts what we call the elemental self, earth, air, fire, 1503 01:25:13.079 --> 01:25:17.119 and water, moving through these things, purifying, bringing things into 1504 01:25:17.239 --> 01:25:21.239 awareness and integration. And if it all sounds very psychological, 1505 01:25:21.279 --> 01:25:24.239 it's because it is. But let's not forget that the 1506 01:25:24.279 --> 01:25:28.159 root of the word psychology is seekkey psyche, which means soul. 1507 01:25:28.760 --> 01:25:33.239 So you go through this sort of ritual initiatory path 1508 01:25:33.279 --> 01:25:37.119 of spiritual alchemy, and the magic is done to you. Right, 1509 01:25:37.239 --> 01:25:42.319 we're initiating adepts, trained adepts are doing these initiation rituals 1510 01:25:42.359 --> 01:25:44.359 to you. Now, when you get into the inner order, 1511 01:25:44.560 --> 01:25:49.479 you then do the magic, and you are essentially engaging 1512 01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:52.560 in what we call rosi Crucian theorgy, and the main 1513 01:25:52.640 --> 01:25:57.920 goal of which at the introductory levels is to come 1514 01:25:58.000 --> 01:26:02.279 to unite with what we call your higher divine genius. 1515 01:26:03.520 --> 01:26:04.600 Break that one down. 1516 01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:11.199 Please, So many people will say, uh, you know, divine, masculine, divine, feminine, 1517 01:26:11.479 --> 01:26:16.479 so many of these what I will playfully please don't 1518 01:26:16.479 --> 01:26:20.960 think this is hatefully define as the wo woo spiritualists, 1519 01:26:21.159 --> 01:26:25.399 we'll say divine, masculine, divine, feminine, all these things, as 1520 01:26:25.439 --> 01:26:27.760 if they have any clue what the fuck they're talking about. 1521 01:26:27.800 --> 01:26:31.720 Break this down, So the higher divine genius is at 1522 01:26:31.760 --> 01:26:36.439 actually remember that word I said, diamond. Okay, So in 1523 01:26:36.520 --> 01:26:40.680 the Platonic literature and the of the entire tradition, not 1524 01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:43.439 just the original Platonic dialogues, but everything that was inspired 1525 01:26:43.520 --> 01:26:47.239 after those dialogues, because they formed the basis of not 1526 01:26:47.359 --> 01:26:52.439 just philosophy, but like modern theology. Even so, at a 1527 01:26:52.520 --> 01:26:58.239 certain point they become preoccupied with this idea of linking 1528 01:26:58.319 --> 01:27:00.840 up with their diamond, their personal diamond, which is a 1529 01:27:00.880 --> 01:27:06.720 tutelary sort of angelic being that serves can tell them 1530 01:27:06.760 --> 01:27:09.319 the purpose of their life and help lead them through 1531 01:27:09.359 --> 01:27:13.159 their incarnation and all sorts of things that leads them 1532 01:27:13.239 --> 01:27:16.239 higher up the ladder of ontology, so on and so forth. Now, 1533 01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:20.079 Thomas Taylor, the great eighteenth century translator, who was one 1534 01:27:20.079 --> 01:27:22.359 of the most prolific translators of all time, he translated 1535 01:27:22.359 --> 01:27:25.239 all of this stuff. He did not translate the word 1536 01:27:25.399 --> 01:27:30.840 diamond into its English equivalent, demon, because he knew that 1537 01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:33.239 was not They were not the same word. They didn't 1538 01:27:33.239 --> 01:27:36.800 have the same meaning. So instead he chose the term genius, 1539 01:27:38.760 --> 01:27:42.000 the genius, the personal genius. This is where we get 1540 01:27:42.039 --> 01:27:44.960 the idea of, oh, someone's a genius. It's not that 1541 01:27:44.960 --> 01:27:47.359 their brain is really bigger, they're really smart, but they're 1542 01:27:47.439 --> 01:27:52.920 inspired by something higher than themselves. And so this is 1543 01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:56.520 in a fact, this is where the Golden Dawn gets 1544 01:27:56.560 --> 01:27:59.479 that language. What you're really doing in the Golden Dawn 1545 01:27:59.520 --> 01:28:02.760 Inner Order or is trying, now that you've purified yourself 1546 01:28:02.800 --> 01:28:07.039 and recalibrated your psyche, then to link up with your 1547 01:28:07.239 --> 01:28:10.479 with your higher diamond, which is you can look at 1548 01:28:10.520 --> 01:28:14.840 it for your own sake as like this exogynous, like 1549 01:28:14.960 --> 01:28:18.119 objective entity, but in reality, what it is is it's 1550 01:28:18.159 --> 01:28:21.760 a higher part of your spiritual architecture that completely transcends 1551 01:28:21.760 --> 01:28:22.239 your ego. 1552 01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:23.600 Mm hm. 1553 01:28:23.640 --> 01:28:25.840 So that's that's really what we're looking to do in 1554 01:28:26.119 --> 01:28:29.800 the outer order, and the goal, the specific goal of 1555 01:28:30.199 --> 01:28:34.399 the Inner order is it's something called the tikunhao Lam 1556 01:28:34.720 --> 01:28:39.039 from the Zohar and from Kabbalistic literature, which means the 1557 01:28:39.079 --> 01:28:42.800 restoration of the universe, the restoration of the eons. 1558 01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:47.079 When you said the Kabbalistic literature, do you mean the 1559 01:28:47.119 --> 01:28:50.920 true Kabbala or the Hermitic Kabbala. I feel like there's 1560 01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:53.439 an important distinction to be made here. 1561 01:28:54.319 --> 01:28:56.920 Yeah, I mean I wouldn't call one true over the other. 1562 01:28:57.079 --> 01:28:59.159 That'd be like calling that would be like calling my 1563 01:28:59.239 --> 01:29:03.399 grandfather the true baker. And I mean, depending on who 1564 01:29:03.479 --> 01:29:07.079 you're talking to, it's it might be right. But uh, 1565 01:29:07.600 --> 01:29:14.119 I would say, yeah, it's what when I'm when I'm 1566 01:29:14.159 --> 01:29:18.079 talking specifically about the ticun hala Alam, I'm talking about 1567 01:29:18.800 --> 01:29:22.560 uh Hebrew Kabbala. There's also a Christian Kabbala that that 1568 01:29:22.760 --> 01:29:27.239 becomes how the people in the Golden Dawn sort of 1569 01:29:28.199 --> 01:29:31.600 morph it and into this thing and create the Hermetic Kbala. 1570 01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:34.760 And now the difference is the Hermetic Kabala takes Cabalistic 1571 01:29:34.840 --> 01:29:40.000 principles and projects them onto everything, whereas in the Christian 1572 01:29:40.079 --> 01:29:42.439 and the Hebrew versions of the Kabbala they only use 1573 01:29:42.560 --> 01:29:48.560 that that exegetical method, that methodology, a trans translation and interpretation. 1574 01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:51.640 They only use it for sacred scripture. But then people 1575 01:29:51.680 --> 01:29:53.439 in the Golden Down and say, oh, we can put 1576 01:29:53.439 --> 01:29:55.880 this to tarot cards, we can you know, classify the 1577 01:29:55.880 --> 01:29:58.960 planets by the so on and so forth. But specifically 1578 01:29:59.000 --> 01:30:01.880 going to what you what you had asked about the 1579 01:30:01.960 --> 01:30:06.680 takunaha Alam and the Kabalistic literature, particularly the Zohar, and 1580 01:30:06.760 --> 01:30:10.279 it's it's sort of appendicies, which is Hebrew Kabbala and 1581 01:30:10.319 --> 01:30:15.319 the Lurianic Kabbala, the Kabbala of Rabbi Itsak Luria who 1582 01:30:15.439 --> 01:30:18.199 was also known as the Ari and his student who 1583 01:30:18.239 --> 01:30:24.640 really wrote everything down. Hi am vital Okay, So you 1584 01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:28.560 you mentioned taro was your take on tarot cards? 1585 01:30:29.399 --> 01:30:33.479 So many people will feel very very strongly. 1586 01:30:33.079 --> 01:30:35.680 One way or another on this, whether they have ever 1587 01:30:35.840 --> 01:30:38.159 actually seen a tarot deck or not. 1588 01:30:38.520 --> 01:30:39.199 What's your take? 1589 01:30:40.600 --> 01:30:44.600 I like him. It was when I first started, it 1590 01:30:44.680 --> 01:30:47.399 was my preferred method of divination because I'm a very 1591 01:30:47.520 --> 01:30:52.920 visual person. Uh. I had some really interesting experiences in 1592 01:30:52.960 --> 01:30:55.279 the beginning where I would ask a question, and I 1593 01:30:55.279 --> 01:30:57.960 would ask the same question, and I would I would 1594 01:30:58.079 --> 01:31:03.239 keep pulling the same card over hours days. That kind 1595 01:31:03.279 --> 01:31:06.640 of freaked me out when I first started working with them. 1596 01:31:07.199 --> 01:31:10.079 Now it's to the point where I don't need to 1597 01:31:10.760 --> 01:31:13.640 divine all the time. You know, It's like I I 1598 01:31:13.720 --> 01:31:15.760 just I don't need to divine to know, like what 1599 01:31:15.880 --> 01:31:17.439 the traffic's going to be like on my way to 1600 01:31:17.479 --> 01:31:20.760 the grocery store and even some big events in my life. 1601 01:31:20.840 --> 01:31:23.399 It's kind of like, do I really want to know 1602 01:31:23.680 --> 01:31:25.920 what's gonna Howard? Do I want to just kind of 1603 01:31:25.960 --> 01:31:29.319 live my fucking life? Do I can I trust myself that, 1604 01:31:29.560 --> 01:31:32.079 having done all these rituals, gone through all these initiations, 1605 01:31:32.079 --> 01:31:34.520 that I'm actually the kind of person that can finally 1606 01:31:34.720 --> 01:31:37.359 handle whatever happens. Or do I need to sit here 1607 01:31:37.560 --> 01:31:41.560 like like an anal retentive, uh, you know, sort of gopher, 1608 01:31:42.920 --> 01:31:46.680 just just drawing and reading cards. You know, I don't 1609 01:31:46.840 --> 01:31:48.880 When I do read cards, I don't do more than 1610 01:31:48.880 --> 01:31:50.359 a three card spread anymore. 1611 01:31:50.399 --> 01:31:50.600 You know. 1612 01:31:50.680 --> 01:31:54.199 It's like, but if I if I need that much info, like, 1613 01:31:55.479 --> 01:31:57.439 you know, I'm too close to the to the question 1614 01:31:57.479 --> 01:32:02.359 at hand to be objective about it. So I don't really. 1615 01:32:02.159 --> 01:32:03.159 Go to. 1616 01:32:04.760 --> 01:32:08.199 Diviners and stuff. If I do a lot of elections, 1617 01:32:08.359 --> 01:32:14.079 meaning if like for the premiere of my first episode 1618 01:32:14.119 --> 01:32:19.039 of The Channel, I chose specifically it's called electional astrology. 1619 01:32:19.279 --> 01:32:23.920 I chose a specific time from that place on Earth 1620 01:32:24.319 --> 01:32:27.239 that would be helpful or beneficial for this. I did 1621 01:32:27.239 --> 01:32:28.760 the same thing for my book. I did the same 1622 01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:32.720 thing for my wedding. So I'll use astrology more than 1623 01:32:32.760 --> 01:32:35.520 I'll use taro nowadays. I think the terror is really 1624 01:32:35.560 --> 01:32:39.600 good if you want to do meditations and contemplations. It's 1625 01:32:39.880 --> 01:32:43.399 good for personal work that's not necessarily divinatory. 1626 01:32:44.119 --> 01:32:49.359 Okay, now talking about astrology, you're somebody who with all 1627 01:32:49.399 --> 01:32:52.079 of your background, with all of your research, all of 1628 01:32:52.119 --> 01:32:56.560 your education, you still look at the storyline as if 1629 01:32:56.600 --> 01:32:59.239 that has something to do with you personally. 1630 01:33:00.000 --> 01:33:02.920 Break that down, please, I think it has to do 1631 01:33:03.199 --> 01:33:13.000 with everything and everyone personally. My main break, my main break, 1632 01:33:13.960 --> 01:33:17.920 happened pretty early on, where again I realized I had 1633 01:33:18.720 --> 01:33:26.520 something in between me and the experience of humanity that 1634 01:33:26.800 --> 01:33:33.199 was sort of you know, my inheritance over the course 1635 01:33:33.279 --> 01:33:38.119 of thousands of hundred, probably hundreds of thousands of years. Okay, 1636 01:33:38.359 --> 01:33:41.640 there was something preventing me from engaging with my humanity, 1637 01:33:42.079 --> 01:33:46.199 and the way that it manifested was in things like 1638 01:33:46.760 --> 01:33:50.800 boredom and anxiety and this. Then so you go and 1639 01:33:50.840 --> 01:33:54.640 you try and distract it with food, video games, sex, music, 1640 01:33:54.800 --> 01:33:57.880 and it's just this itch that doesn't go away. And 1641 01:33:58.039 --> 01:34:00.560 I found out pretty early on, like, oh, it's because 1642 01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:04.239 there's this thing that's preventing me from just experiencing reality, 1643 01:34:04.319 --> 01:34:07.840 and that a lot of that thing is that that 1644 01:34:08.239 --> 01:34:11.840 perceptual interface that gets installed through things like you know, 1645 01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:18.319 educ institutional education. So now what I have found in 1646 01:34:18.680 --> 01:34:23.039 divorcing myself for a time from all of those things. 1647 01:34:23.239 --> 01:34:25.319 You know, there was a there was a time many 1648 01:34:25.359 --> 01:34:27.079 many years that I did this stuff and had no 1649 01:34:27.199 --> 01:34:33.279 ties to academia. The experience of it really revealed the 1650 01:34:33.319 --> 01:34:37.880 truth of it to me, and it also it also 1651 01:34:38.840 --> 01:34:43.000 integrated me into you know, this universe that I'd always 1652 01:34:43.039 --> 01:34:44.920 kind of felt like a little ship just on a 1653 01:34:45.399 --> 01:34:48.600 getting rocked from from side to side, through through the storms. 1654 01:34:48.840 --> 01:34:50.479 I finally felt like I was a part of this 1655 01:34:51.239 --> 01:34:57.359 you know, teleological machine of the cosmos. And I did 1656 01:34:57.359 --> 01:35:00.520 not I don't get rid of what I under stand 1657 01:35:00.840 --> 01:35:04.680 in terms of you know, modern science, modern astronomy. But 1658 01:35:04.760 --> 01:35:08.680 the thing is this, when I die, what the fuck 1659 01:35:08.720 --> 01:35:12.239 does any of that matter. I don't die with the facts. 1660 01:35:12.279 --> 01:35:16.359 I die with my experience, and so it's I can't 1661 01:35:16.760 --> 01:35:21.920 We're taught nowadays to continually outsource the locus of like 1662 01:35:22.159 --> 01:35:26.119 epistemological authority, right, so like what can and cannot be known? 1663 01:35:26.680 --> 01:35:29.079 We got to leave that to these authorities over here 1664 01:35:29.119 --> 01:35:31.680 and these over there, and those people will never fucking 1665 01:35:31.680 --> 01:35:35.439 speak to each other. And finally, to the end degree, 1666 01:35:35.520 --> 01:35:38.079 they won't be able to see the forest from the trees. Okay, 1667 01:35:38.159 --> 01:35:40.920 so it becomes this Tower of Babbel situation where everybody's 1668 01:35:40.920 --> 01:35:44.800 speaking a different language. So it's that doesn't really bring 1669 01:35:44.880 --> 01:35:48.039 us to wholeness and integration and fullness. But what I 1670 01:35:48.119 --> 01:35:51.720 do is I take my subjective experience of being in 1671 01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:56.279 the world. I take the sort of objective criteria and 1672 01:35:56.760 --> 01:36:01.159 quote unquote facts that are given to us by observable, empirical, 1673 01:36:01.560 --> 01:36:04.960 you know, sort of science, and I don't need one 1674 01:36:05.039 --> 01:36:08.319 to explain away the other. I hold them side by 1675 01:36:08.399 --> 01:36:11.279 side and I allow them to communicate with each other, 1676 01:36:11.640 --> 01:36:14.720 but one is not like they have their own domains 1677 01:36:14.760 --> 01:36:17.720 of authority, and I think that's really important. We get 1678 01:36:17.720 --> 01:36:20.760 a lot of talk about cognitive dissonance, and there's only 1679 01:36:20.880 --> 01:36:24.439 you're only gonna have cognitive dissonance there because somebody fucking 1680 01:36:25.039 --> 01:36:28.399 trains you into buying the bullshit that it's got to 1681 01:36:28.439 --> 01:36:31.760 be one or the other, when in reality, like life 1682 01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:35.960 is a capital M mystery and a mystery, particularly when 1683 01:36:35.960 --> 01:36:38.399 we say something like the mystery traditions, the mystery cult 1684 01:36:39.039 --> 01:36:41.560 is not it's not a puzzle to be figured out. 1685 01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:47.159 It is an experience. It's something to be experienced. It's 1686 01:36:47.239 --> 01:36:51.319 not the mystery traditions. You don't get like these big 1687 01:36:51.359 --> 01:36:54.399 secrets like oh my god, now I know the world, 1688 01:36:54.520 --> 01:36:56.880 what the how the world was made and all this stuff. No, 1689 01:36:57.239 --> 01:37:01.960 you're being introduced to it away a way of walking 1690 01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:06.760 this path to have those experiences, and then when your 1691 01:37:06.840 --> 01:37:11.159 experience of that is your own. So, you know, I 1692 01:37:11.640 --> 01:37:14.560 think that with life, I have to approach life as 1693 01:37:14.560 --> 01:37:17.840 if it is a great, beautiful and terrifying mystery that 1694 01:37:17.960 --> 01:37:22.039 needs to be experienced and not you know, that doesn't 1695 01:37:22.079 --> 01:37:23.840 mean I don't want to know anything about it. I 1696 01:37:23.880 --> 01:37:27.000 have to cultivate my intellect. I have to do that. 1697 01:37:27.079 --> 01:37:30.239 I mean, because human beings are given this great gift. 1698 01:37:30.640 --> 01:37:34.000 But I can't allow the intellect to take over and 1699 01:37:34.119 --> 01:37:35.479 remove my humanity. 1700 01:37:35.960 --> 01:37:36.119 You know. 1701 01:37:36.359 --> 01:37:39.640 That's that's what's causing all this existential friction in us, 1702 01:37:40.439 --> 01:37:43.319 I believe, and and it's it's one of the this 1703 01:37:43.399 --> 01:37:45.920 is what initiation has has taught me to understand, and 1704 01:37:46.159 --> 01:37:47.880 it's taught me how to be in the world again. 1705 01:37:47.920 --> 01:37:50.680 And it's you know, that's why I get very passionate 1706 01:37:50.680 --> 01:37:55.840 about it because it it's think about it. If what 1707 01:37:55.960 --> 01:38:00.199 I'm telling you actually exists, What if the way that 1708 01:38:00.199 --> 01:38:02.520 I'm explaining what I went through and how I arrived 1709 01:38:02.520 --> 01:38:06.199 at this wholeness actually exists in things like Freemasonry to 1710 01:38:06.239 --> 01:38:09.640 a lesser degree the Golden Dawn. Certainly, if you follow 1711 01:38:09.680 --> 01:38:13.680 the system Martinism, then yeah, the powers that be wouldn't 1712 01:38:13.760 --> 01:38:16.199 want you to fucking look at anything I'm doing. They 1713 01:38:16.199 --> 01:38:19.279 would they'd love to paint a gigantic fucking target on 1714 01:38:19.319 --> 01:38:22.600 my face and the face of other Freemasons and other 1715 01:38:22.720 --> 01:38:26.560 people like that. That's the whole thing now, And I 1716 01:38:26.600 --> 01:38:29.800 speak here generically to the audience, right, you are the 1717 01:38:29.880 --> 01:38:35.720 fucking syop. It's not freemasonry. You are the syop, the 1718 01:38:35.840 --> 01:38:40.359 perceptual filter, the thing that is installing you like a 1719 01:38:40.399 --> 01:38:42.920 goddamn alien on your on your head that you're not 1720 01:38:43.119 --> 01:38:46.600 even aware is there. That is the syop. 1721 01:38:47.239 --> 01:38:52.039 Okay, So to those Christians out there before I ask 1722 01:38:52.159 --> 01:38:58.439 my final two questions to you, what is Martinism and 1723 01:38:58.479 --> 01:39:01.000 how does that apply to everything that we've been talking 1724 01:39:01.000 --> 01:39:01.800 about this evening. 1725 01:39:03.560 --> 01:39:10.079 So Martinism is a tradition coming out of primarily France 1726 01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:13.000 in the eighteenth century. 1727 01:39:12.960 --> 01:39:17.600 It's not Martin Lutherism. Correct, No, okay, mak you sure, no, no, No. 1728 01:39:17.479 --> 01:39:21.520 It's actually named after well, there were two two qualifying 1729 01:39:21.560 --> 01:39:24.800 people involved, but I'll name the one that it's named after. 1730 01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:28.920 His name was Louis Claude de San Martin. So Martinism 1731 01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:32.600 comes from his last name, San Martin, Saint Martin, and 1732 01:39:34.039 --> 01:39:41.439 he wrote beautiful mystical philosophical works under he wrote the 1733 01:39:41.479 --> 01:39:46.439 mononymously under the name of the unknown philosopher, and he 1734 01:39:46.520 --> 01:39:51.880 did not create an order. He worked privately with certain students, 1735 01:39:52.439 --> 01:39:55.600 and then his students went off and had students. Okay, 1736 01:39:55.640 --> 01:39:59.079 So now these grandchildren, so to speak, of Louis Claude 1737 01:39:59.079 --> 01:40:02.359 de Saint Martin system, they meet up one day in 1738 01:40:02.439 --> 01:40:06.640 Paris and their names are Augustine Chabusseau and Gerard Nkos 1739 01:40:06.680 --> 01:40:11.000 who's also known as Papou or PAPIs. They meet and 1740 01:40:11.039 --> 01:40:14.159 they basically say, wait, hold on, you had a teacher 1741 01:40:14.199 --> 01:40:16.760 who studied with Louis Claude de Saint Martine, So did I? 1742 01:40:17.720 --> 01:40:19.520 So did I? You know, Like it's like or your 1743 01:40:19.560 --> 01:40:23.960 teacher studied with someone who studied with so you know, 1744 01:40:24.079 --> 01:40:27.840 like that almost like apostolic succession, so to speak. And 1745 01:40:27.920 --> 01:40:33.640 so then they decide right, being Freemasons in the. 1746 01:40:32.359 --> 01:40:34.199 They were confirmed freemasons. 1747 01:40:35.199 --> 01:40:37.840 Yeah, all of this, nothing, nothing that has left my 1748 01:40:37.920 --> 01:40:41.039 mouth tonight in terms of orders, does not come from Freemasonry. 1749 01:40:41.279 --> 01:40:41.720 Wow. 1750 01:40:42.399 --> 01:40:43.600 Wow, that's a lot of orders. 1751 01:40:44.239 --> 01:40:47.600 It is, it is. And Freemasons love orders, and we 1752 01:40:47.680 --> 01:40:51.560 love paper, we love little little certificates, we love new rituals. 1753 01:40:51.760 --> 01:40:52.880 Yeah, we got badges. 1754 01:40:54.239 --> 01:40:54.800 Exactly. 1755 01:40:54.960 --> 01:40:58.079 It's like boy Scouts, but for like grown men it is. 1756 01:40:58.920 --> 01:41:01.199 It's like, literally very much is. 1757 01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:05.239 The boy Scotts in America is a whole other conspiracy. 1758 01:41:05.279 --> 01:41:07.720 We can go down another night, but yes, yes. 1759 01:41:08.319 --> 01:41:12.119 So it's effectively it's out of all of these traditions. 1760 01:41:12.159 --> 01:41:15.640 It's much less ritualized. The initiations, of course are ritualized, 1761 01:41:15.680 --> 01:41:19.960 but the practice is contemplative, and it's it's prayer based, 1762 01:41:20.039 --> 01:41:22.079 it's it's actually we call it the way of the Heart. 1763 01:41:23.119 --> 01:41:25.680 And and so there's really not a whole lot of 1764 01:41:26.199 --> 01:41:30.359 Martinist ritual that you are necessarily doing on your own. 1765 01:41:31.479 --> 01:41:33.520 And you know, a lot of it consists of reading 1766 01:41:33.560 --> 01:41:37.399 the Psalms and doing certain studies and uh and praying 1767 01:41:37.920 --> 01:41:40.920 and and it's it's a devotional path, right, like for 1768 01:41:40.960 --> 01:41:43.319 anybody that's familiar with the Eastern stuff. Martinism is like 1769 01:41:43.319 --> 01:41:47.479 the baghdy, you know, the sort of thing that we 1770 01:41:47.560 --> 01:41:51.920 have in the Western naesetary traditions. It's it's, it's it's 1771 01:41:51.920 --> 01:41:55.920 certainly a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful system, and it's 1772 01:41:56.000 --> 01:41:58.319 it's a it's a welcome break sometimes from having to, 1773 01:41:58.840 --> 01:42:02.159 you know, like have all regalion, do all the rituals. 1774 01:42:02.199 --> 01:42:04.560 So it's it's brought me a lot of peace and 1775 01:42:04.600 --> 01:42:05.520 I really enjoy it. 1776 01:42:06.960 --> 01:42:14.840 Okay, So to circle back, all things considered, you have 1777 01:42:14.920 --> 01:42:19.880 been a member of UH. I feel like it'd be 1778 01:42:20.960 --> 01:42:26.399 incorrect to say Martinis, Freemasons, and Golden Dawn. I feel 1779 01:42:26.439 --> 01:42:29.239 like you probably are a member of multiple orders, but 1780 01:42:29.279 --> 01:42:32.720 those might be the main three, right, mm hmm, Okay, 1781 01:42:33.439 --> 01:42:39.119 all this considered, you also claim that you are a Christian. 1782 01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:44.720 May I ask, respectfully, sir, what denomination you claim to be. 1783 01:42:44.760 --> 01:42:47.479 A part of. I don't. 1784 01:42:47.520 --> 01:42:50.880 I don't. I don't claim to be any denomination, but 1785 01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:55.640 I will say this I am. You will find in Martinism, 1786 01:42:56.439 --> 01:43:00.479 UH They're not officially linked, but you will very often 1787 01:43:00.560 --> 01:43:04.640 find when there is a Martinist chapter somewhere, it has 1788 01:43:04.680 --> 01:43:09.039 this kind of like sister church. Okay, and so I 1789 01:43:09.159 --> 01:43:16.439 belong to that church which considers itself pre Nicene Christianity. 1790 01:43:16.800 --> 01:43:23.279 Now we're talking Ethiopian or Eastern or Oriental Orthodoxy. 1791 01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:26.960 Just before the nice scene creed. Okay. So because early 1792 01:43:27.159 --> 01:43:31.960 the earliest forms of Christianity were in the Mediterranean, right 1793 01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:34.760 the churches that Paul was communicating with and so on, 1794 01:43:34.840 --> 01:43:40.319 where the apostles were at. But it does not claim to, 1795 01:43:41.199 --> 01:43:45.319 you know, necessarily be of one particular school or sect 1796 01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:49.800 it is associated with. I would say Rosie Crucianism and 1797 01:43:49.840 --> 01:43:54.239 certain forms of Gnosticism as well, but we don't. It's 1798 01:43:54.279 --> 01:43:58.920 basically like people who look at this stuff and integrate 1799 01:43:58.960 --> 01:44:03.319 it on a mystical and esoteric level rather than biblical 1800 01:44:03.520 --> 01:44:08.720 literalism that drives everybody apart and needs to like choose 1801 01:44:08.760 --> 01:44:12.479 a side and choose a team. You know, that was 1802 01:44:12.600 --> 01:44:16.000 never the message of Christ. I don't care who you are. 1803 01:44:16.640 --> 01:44:18.640 That was never. You can argue with me to the 1804 01:44:18.680 --> 01:44:24.600 cawskumb with never the message of Christ. So you know 1805 01:44:25.000 --> 01:44:29.199 these kinds. There's this whole thing called the Independent Sacramental Movement, 1806 01:44:29.439 --> 01:44:31.359 and I recommend if you haven't heard of it to 1807 01:44:31.479 --> 01:44:34.479 check it out. It's essentially a tradition of what we 1808 01:44:34.560 --> 01:44:39.720 call wandering bishops that come from various sects of the 1809 01:44:40.279 --> 01:44:44.680 churches that have been anathematized or kind of outcast, and 1810 01:44:44.760 --> 01:44:48.000 they have gone on because there's nothing outlawing a bishop 1811 01:44:48.039 --> 01:44:50.600 for making a priest. You lay those hands on there, 1812 01:44:50.640 --> 01:44:52.439 you do that ritual. It don't matter what church you 1813 01:44:52.479 --> 01:44:55.800 belong to. This guy's a priest now. So it's you know, 1814 01:44:56.640 --> 01:44:59.159 there's there's a whole tradition out there called the independent 1815 01:44:59.239 --> 01:45:02.680 Sacramental Movie. I would say we're kind of adjacent to that, 1816 01:45:03.439 --> 01:45:06.000 but we're much more esoteric. We you know, a good 1817 01:45:06.039 --> 01:45:09.159 example of of the I s M would be the 1818 01:45:09.279 --> 01:45:13.880 Joeanite Church. Okay, if you look up the the uh 1819 01:45:13.960 --> 01:45:19.279 Joanite or Apostolic Joeanite Church, they they're they're usually considered 1820 01:45:19.279 --> 01:45:22.840 within within the IS s M. But so so, I 1821 01:45:22.840 --> 01:45:25.239 mean I I served as a deacon for seven years 1822 01:45:25.239 --> 01:45:27.520 and then I was ordained as a priest in that 1823 01:45:27.640 --> 01:45:32.119 order and uh, and I administer all seven sacraments. I've 1824 01:45:32.119 --> 01:45:35.119 married people, have baptized people, I've you know, done all 1825 01:45:35.159 --> 01:45:38.720 that kind of stuff. I've even done extorcism. So so 1826 01:45:39.199 --> 01:45:43.239 you know that that's kind of where I stand. I 1827 01:45:43.239 --> 01:45:45.760 I have a very different relationship to Christianity, and that 1828 01:45:45.840 --> 01:45:48.279 I don't fucking need to. I don't need anybody to 1829 01:45:48.279 --> 01:45:50.920 tell me what it is ever, christ You know that 1830 01:45:51.000 --> 01:45:55.199 that's that's really it, because we have everything we need 1831 01:45:56.239 --> 01:45:58.279 and and we have a lot of extra shit that 1832 01:45:58.399 --> 01:46:02.079 just kind of gets in the way. But yeah, so 1833 01:46:02.119 --> 01:46:04.840 that's where I say it all the time, like most 1834 01:46:04.920 --> 01:46:07.159 Christians wouldn't consider me a Christian, but at the end 1835 01:46:07.159 --> 01:46:08.239 of the day, I don't give a shit. 1836 01:46:09.119 --> 01:46:14.800 With that being said, I need to ask this question. 1837 01:46:15.439 --> 01:46:17.680 And I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm being a 1838 01:46:17.680 --> 01:46:20.600 bit of a dick, But there are those of the 1839 01:46:20.680 --> 01:46:23.840 Christian faith that would say the fact that you are 1840 01:46:23.880 --> 01:46:29.479 a part of so many secret organizations makes it inherently 1841 01:46:30.159 --> 01:46:35.079 non Christian. And they will quote Ephesians five, John eighteen, 1842 01:46:35.560 --> 01:46:41.880 Matthew five, Mark four, second Corinthian six basically to say. 1843 01:46:41.800 --> 01:46:45.520 That if you are a part of a secret organization of. 1844 01:46:45.439 --> 01:46:49.119 Any type, any even if that's a secret order of 1845 01:46:49.319 --> 01:46:50.840 Catholic priests, doesn't matter. 1846 01:46:51.600 --> 01:46:54.640 A secret order must. 1847 01:46:54.199 --> 01:46:57.920 Inherently be evil, and if it is done behind closed doors, 1848 01:46:57.960 --> 01:46:59.319 let it be brought to the lights. 1849 01:47:00.000 --> 01:47:01.279 What was your take on this, sir. 1850 01:47:02.439 --> 01:47:04.760 Christianity was a secret organization. 1851 01:47:04.960 --> 01:47:06.439 When you break that down, what do you mean? 1852 01:47:07.479 --> 01:47:11.199 It was a mystery cult? These people, these people could not. 1853 01:47:11.479 --> 01:47:12.640 These people could not. 1854 01:47:13.399 --> 01:47:16.760 When they were being like crucified for their beliefs. 1855 01:47:16.840 --> 01:47:22.840 You mean, well, there are certain certain forms of the 1856 01:47:22.920 --> 01:47:26.960 christian of people in Christianity who have come forth like Jesus, 1857 01:47:27.039 --> 01:47:30.000 like the apostles, But not everybody did that. Sure, not 1858 01:47:30.119 --> 01:47:34.119 everybody proclaimed their faith in other words, because they were 1859 01:47:34.239 --> 01:47:37.960 murdered for it, right, exactly exactly, So, I mean there's 1860 01:47:38.000 --> 01:47:42.079 another reason why why you would have to keep things secret, 1861 01:47:42.159 --> 01:47:46.600 you know what I'm saying, because the people won't accept you. Now, 1862 01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:48.319 that's the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm 1863 01:47:48.359 --> 01:47:51.680 trying to make is that the same kind of rhetoric 1864 01:47:52.279 --> 01:47:57.319 and hate and distrust that people would foist upon quote 1865 01:47:57.359 --> 01:48:01.479 unquote secret organizations, secret secret organizations. What we have a 1866 01:48:01.520 --> 01:48:03.760 fucking sign on the door that tells you where and 1867 01:48:03.800 --> 01:48:06.760 when we meet. How is that secret? I'm out here 1868 01:48:06.800 --> 01:48:08.920 doing this thing. You know, nobody's gonna yell at me. 1869 01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:11.079 I can talk about this stuff till the cows come home. 1870 01:48:11.279 --> 01:48:14.119 There's there are no secrets. If you want to become 1871 01:48:14.159 --> 01:48:16.359 one of us. You will find your way to it. 1872 01:48:16.640 --> 01:48:18.960 To do you want to ask one if you know 1873 01:48:19.039 --> 01:48:21.119 what I just said and you know the math behind it. 1874 01:48:22.399 --> 01:48:26.079 Yeah, but aside from from any kind of like you know, 1875 01:48:26.159 --> 01:48:29.720 conspiratorial numerology, it's it's like one of the things we 1876 01:48:29.760 --> 01:48:32.359 asked you when you come to Freemasonry eight or nine 1877 01:48:32.399 --> 01:48:34.439 different times, is this of your own free will in 1878 01:48:34.479 --> 01:48:37.079 a court. You see this throughout in the Golden Dawn 1879 01:48:37.119 --> 01:48:40.720 and free and Martinism. Are you making this choice because 1880 01:48:40.760 --> 01:48:43.640 somebody pressured you into we're not allowed to solicit. We're 1881 01:48:43.680 --> 01:48:46.079 not we're not allowed to go out there and quote 1882 01:48:46.159 --> 01:48:50.760 unquote recruit. That's against Masonic uh, you know, sort of 1883 01:48:51.600 --> 01:48:57.720 good behavior. But yeah, Christianity, for sure, in the beginning 1884 01:48:57.760 --> 01:48:59.960 had to keep itself. They had to They were meet 1885 01:49:00.159 --> 01:49:02.960 in houses, you know, they didn't have these these these 1886 01:49:02.960 --> 01:49:06.840 beautiful churches. And in short, the Roman Empire you know, 1887 01:49:07.039 --> 01:49:10.880 eventually incorporates them. But I mean it's it's through a 1888 01:49:10.920 --> 01:49:14.600 long tradition of martyrdom and hiding. I mean, look at 1889 01:49:14.600 --> 01:49:18.600 it this way. Can still go to Egypt and I 1890 01:49:18.640 --> 01:49:24.399 go every year. You can go to the Mortuary Temple 1891 01:49:24.560 --> 01:49:27.479 of the Queen Hatchepsit right, one of the few queen 1892 01:49:27.720 --> 01:49:31.960 pharaohs in ancient Egypt. And you will find what appeared 1893 01:49:31.960 --> 01:49:34.279 to be templar crosses. I don't, I'm not saying they are, 1894 01:49:34.600 --> 01:49:38.239 but they look like the red templar crosses. And the 1895 01:49:38.279 --> 01:49:41.479 Egyptologists there inform us, and we know from from certain 1896 01:49:41.520 --> 01:49:44.479 textual histories that they would leave these signs so they 1897 01:49:44.520 --> 01:49:47.199 would know this is a safe place to meet and 1898 01:49:47.279 --> 01:49:49.680 have our ritual. At that point it was, it was 1899 01:49:49.760 --> 01:49:55.720 already ruins. So yeah, I mean, there are plenty of 1900 01:49:55.720 --> 01:49:58.520 people who you know, who know who I am, and 1901 01:49:58.760 --> 01:50:00.479 I'm sure there are a lot of people now that 1902 01:50:00.520 --> 01:50:05.359 are coming after Freemason's. They bombed the Scottish righte in Athens, Greece. 1903 01:50:06.119 --> 01:50:08.680 They your brother was shot point blank coming out of 1904 01:50:08.760 --> 01:50:11.520 lodge a couple of years ago. Bricks have been through 1905 01:50:11.560 --> 01:50:17.000 our our Masonic temple window. So it's like, yeah, more 1906 01:50:17.239 --> 01:50:20.760 encouragement to like, just like, I'm not like that. I'm 1907 01:50:20.800 --> 01:50:24.880 ready to do fucking battle, you know, because I think 1908 01:50:24.960 --> 01:50:31.000 that if the the overwhelming population has been so mind 1909 01:50:31.119 --> 01:50:34.159 fucked that they are basically everyone is part of some 1910 01:50:34.359 --> 01:50:38.399 part of a raving lunatic mob. And so it's like 1911 01:50:38.800 --> 01:50:41.479 at this point, to completely capitulate is to sign my 1912 01:50:41.520 --> 01:50:47.199 own death warrant eventually. So, uh, you know, I'm a 1913 01:50:47.239 --> 01:50:50.199 little bit more proud of being outspoken against this stuff 1914 01:50:50.279 --> 01:50:54.319 and trying to to you know, I show up hard 1915 01:50:54.479 --> 01:50:55.920 against it, you know, because I'm not. 1916 01:50:56.119 --> 01:50:56.399 I'm not. 1917 01:50:57.399 --> 01:51:00.239 I'm not really afraid of any repercussions from one side 1918 01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:02.199 or the other. There are brothers who think that this 1919 01:51:02.319 --> 01:51:05.239 is what I'm doing right now is on Masonic conduct, 1920 01:51:05.279 --> 01:51:08.880 because I'm talking about talking about sticking up for myself 1921 01:51:08.960 --> 01:51:10.000 and for the fraternity. 1922 01:51:10.119 --> 01:51:13.319 But you also haven't given any secrets, you haven't given 1923 01:51:13.359 --> 01:51:15.720 any past codes, you haven't told us how to do 1924 01:51:15.800 --> 01:51:20.920 the proper handshakes at different levels, like you're you're all good. 1925 01:51:22.720 --> 01:51:27.840 Yeah, it's it's it's just, you know, Masonry asks you 1926 01:51:28.000 --> 01:51:30.680 to be a certain way in the world, and that 1927 01:51:30.880 --> 01:51:33.840 is what we would call, you know, up upstanding, upright, 1928 01:51:33.880 --> 01:51:41.079 and square. So, uh, some Masonic, some Masonic jurisdictions have 1929 01:51:41.239 --> 01:51:44.880 written into their ritual lectures, their charges and stuff. Are 1930 01:51:44.920 --> 01:51:47.319 you not supposed to get enter into argument with people 1931 01:51:47.359 --> 01:51:50.560 who defame the society. You're not supposed to, you know. 1932 01:51:51.000 --> 01:51:52.840 But at the end of the day, Like I always 1933 01:51:52.880 --> 01:51:55.840 point back to the founding Fathers, right and like they 1934 01:51:55.920 --> 01:51:58.840 caused you know, it was specifically a couple of Freemasons 1935 01:51:58.840 --> 01:52:01.720 who did who or organized the Boston Tea Party and 1936 01:52:02.000 --> 01:52:06.000 had a big part in the revolution and the founding 1937 01:52:06.119 --> 01:52:09.359 of this country. You can say what you want about 1938 01:52:10.039 --> 01:52:13.840 them as people the same way. In three hundred years 1939 01:52:13.880 --> 01:52:17.159 from now, people will be criticizing us for things that 1940 01:52:17.199 --> 01:52:21.720 are completely normal right now. But at the end of 1941 01:52:21.760 --> 01:52:25.880 the day, you know, I think, you know, be a 1942 01:52:25.880 --> 01:52:31.760 good boy sort of masonry was inserted after like World 1943 01:52:31.800 --> 01:52:34.319 War One, world War two, when it was you were 1944 01:52:34.359 --> 01:52:36.760 expected more so to kind of like toe the line. 1945 01:52:36.920 --> 01:52:41.680 I think certainly in order for Freemasons to stand up 1946 01:52:41.800 --> 01:52:45.520 for themselves, their sovereignty, their country, their families, they had to, 1947 01:52:47.199 --> 01:52:49.000 you know, put up a little bit of a fight. 1948 01:52:49.119 --> 01:52:51.880 And that's kind of where I'm at now. I'm fully 1949 01:52:51.880 --> 01:52:56.039 aware I'm not going to change anybody's mind, but I 1950 01:52:56.079 --> 01:52:59.079 think that there needs to be some pushback and there 1951 01:52:59.119 --> 01:53:02.720 needs to be some alternative, some sane voice out here 1952 01:53:02.760 --> 01:53:04.359 for people that are kind of on the fence. 1953 01:53:04.680 --> 01:53:08.439 But you also recognize and understand the fact that you 1954 01:53:08.640 --> 01:53:12.279 are the outlier to say that you are going against 1955 01:53:12.279 --> 01:53:15.520 our pike, to say that you are going against. 1956 01:53:15.600 --> 01:53:19.119 But all of the north, the entire northern jurisdiction of 1957 01:53:19.159 --> 01:53:20.199 the Scottish. 1958 01:53:19.800 --> 01:53:22.279 Rice helped me out real quick, real quick. 1959 01:53:22.359 --> 01:53:25.479 When you say the northern jurisdiction, there's a fish out 1960 01:53:25.479 --> 01:53:28.560 of water asking this question, where does that line draw? 1961 01:53:28.600 --> 01:53:31.399 Are we talking the Mason Dixon line, but some people 1962 01:53:31.439 --> 01:53:34.439 claim the south is if you were south of the 1963 01:53:34.439 --> 01:53:36.359 Mason Dixon line, which I call bullshit. 1964 01:53:36.840 --> 01:53:37.680 Where are we talking? 1965 01:53:39.079 --> 01:53:50.600 It's I believe from Virginia down to Florida and extending 1966 01:53:50.760 --> 01:53:52.239 I think over to Texas. 1967 01:53:52.439 --> 01:53:55.720 So there's the Mason Dixon line. The people like, for instance. 1968 01:53:55.520 --> 01:53:58.039 Really Mason Dixon's a little higher. I aimed to be. 1969 01:53:58.039 --> 01:54:01.079 That asshole, but like, I'm sorry, Virginia is not the South. 1970 01:54:01.920 --> 01:54:05.039 North Carolina is not the I hate to be that dickhead. 1971 01:54:05.079 --> 01:54:07.760 I don't mean to be. I'm not denying their red 1972 01:54:07.840 --> 01:54:12.119 neckedness or their hillbillyiness. But the same time, if it 1973 01:54:12.600 --> 01:54:14.840 doesn't run through your state, you're not the South. 1974 01:54:14.960 --> 01:54:18.359 I'm sorry, I'm fucking sorry, but like here we are sorry, 1975 01:54:18.439 --> 01:54:19.239 not sorry. 1976 01:54:19.760 --> 01:54:26.039 You know. Mah Anyway, Well, I think I think you 1977 01:54:26.159 --> 01:54:27.960 might be an outlier there too. If you come to 1978 01:54:28.000 --> 01:54:29.279 North Carolina. 1979 01:54:29.159 --> 01:54:32.960 Listen, I'm not their barbecue. But I'm sorry you have mountains. 1980 01:54:33.000 --> 01:54:36.159 You're not the South. I'm very sorry. 1981 01:54:36.800 --> 01:54:39.520 Huge ticks, lots of ticks. I'm good. 1982 01:54:40.000 --> 01:54:44.199 Yeah, it's uh so. The Southern jurisdiction operates based on 1983 01:54:44.279 --> 01:54:48.079 Pike's rituals, and and they like his works like Esoterica, 1984 01:54:48.800 --> 01:54:51.000 Morals from Dogma and so on and so forth. The 1985 01:54:51.039 --> 01:54:58.199 Northern jurisdiction works older rights, which are effectively the ones 1986 01:54:58.199 --> 01:55:01.600 that would have come over from the European continent before 1987 01:55:02.039 --> 01:55:04.359 Pike had had And I'm not again, I'm not a 1988 01:55:04.359 --> 01:55:09.439 Scottish right mason sry. I'm I've never even seen Northern jurisdiction, 1989 01:55:09.880 --> 01:55:13.720 so but I'm aware of the infamous kind of like rivalry. No, 1990 01:55:13.840 --> 01:55:16.680 I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that, like I'm 1991 01:55:16.680 --> 01:55:20.560 a complete outlier. I think just my thing is that, 1992 01:55:21.560 --> 01:55:27.359 you know, I was raised in America in a European home, which, why. 1993 01:55:27.159 --> 01:55:30.000 Are you not a Scottish right I understand you fell 1994 01:55:30.000 --> 01:55:34.960 into your right for reasons and things and stuff, nothing negative. 1995 01:55:34.600 --> 01:55:36.760 Because I don't like Pike, and I don't like Pike. 1996 01:55:37.319 --> 01:55:41.079 Why Scottish right, is inherently pike Ish. 1997 01:55:41.039 --> 01:55:44.560 In the South. Yes, the Southern jurisdiction works the Pike 1998 01:55:44.600 --> 01:55:47.960 stuff that the Northern jurisdiction. Fuck all to do with Pike. 1999 01:55:48.000 --> 01:55:49.039 They hate him, they don't want. 2000 01:55:48.920 --> 01:55:51.239 Him around, Like, I don't understand why they would follow 2001 01:55:51.279 --> 01:55:54.159 this person though, Like even just reading his stuff, it's 2002 01:55:54.319 --> 01:55:58.119 just obnoxious, Like, let's be really honest, and then the 2003 01:55:58.119 --> 01:56:00.680 way that he believed in and they and what he 2004 01:56:00.760 --> 01:56:04.239 believed in, and he was upset with people being anything 2005 01:56:04.279 --> 01:56:07.560 other than pro slavery, and then just all of his 2006 01:56:07.760 --> 01:56:10.359 work and what he actually worked on, like his history 2007 01:56:10.399 --> 01:56:14.520 of the person he was, and inherently seems like it 2008 01:56:14.560 --> 01:56:17.640 goes against the original formation of the Masons and what 2009 01:56:17.760 --> 01:56:20.880 they had written down. So I don't really understand why 2010 01:56:20.960 --> 01:56:24.000 anyone would still to this day follow that, like it 2011 01:56:24.079 --> 01:56:26.119 would make more sense to remove it. 2012 01:56:26.479 --> 01:56:31.359 Yes, well, well, and you do get, you get he's 2013 01:56:31.399 --> 01:56:35.760 writing in the in the post war South, when he's 2014 01:56:35.760 --> 01:56:38.680 writing all of this stuff. Yes, he's now a he was, 2015 01:56:38.840 --> 01:56:41.520 you know, he had an office in the military and 2016 01:56:41.560 --> 01:56:45.960 of the Confederate Army. He's now lost. Okay, he's lost. 2017 01:56:45.960 --> 01:56:48.439 That all said, and as we all know, you know, 2018 01:56:48.680 --> 01:56:53.399 the Confederate States to this day still Barrick Grudge. I mean, 2019 01:56:53.479 --> 01:56:56.000 I come down here, you want to take a fish 2020 01:56:56.000 --> 01:56:59.359 about out of water. I mean like, I'm a Yankee 2021 01:56:59.479 --> 01:57:03.960 in the South of literally literally like I mean they 2022 01:57:04.199 --> 01:57:10.359 I've been called a Yankee many times. Yes, yes, exactly. 2023 01:57:11.479 --> 01:57:13.560 I think my old neighbor, Catfish told me. 2024 01:57:14.479 --> 01:57:21.079 Your old neighbor, Catfish said, fucking sends home the fact 2025 01:57:21.159 --> 01:57:21.880 of what you're saying. 2026 01:57:22.560 --> 01:57:25.680 My neighbor is named frog. So like I'm gonna be 2027 01:57:25.760 --> 01:57:26.359 early honest. 2028 01:57:26.439 --> 01:57:29.000 We got my neighbor three streets up named coon Dick. 2029 01:57:29.119 --> 01:57:31.800 And I don't mean that, I mean raccoon dick. He 2030 01:57:31.840 --> 01:57:35.800 has three bones on a necklace he carries he uses 2031 01:57:35.920 --> 01:57:39.079 his toothpick, which is my raccoon dicks. 2032 01:57:39.239 --> 01:57:40.880 Anyway, Yeah, it's disgusting. 2033 01:57:41.079 --> 01:57:45.239 Yeah, so yeah, that's the South. But I you know, 2034 01:57:45.720 --> 01:57:51.039 it's I I again, I try to meet that stuff 2035 01:57:51.079 --> 01:57:54.119 without without condoning any of it. I'm trying to look 2036 01:57:54.159 --> 01:57:58.159 at the I'm contextualizing everything based off of what was 2037 01:57:58.199 --> 01:58:01.039 going on in this place at that time, and a 2038 01:58:01.119 --> 01:58:03.319 lot of a lot of those lines from north to south, 2039 01:58:03.359 --> 01:58:05.800 northern and southern jurisdiction have exactly to do with the 2040 01:58:05.920 --> 01:58:08.760 very valid points that you made. It's actually why I 2041 01:58:08.800 --> 01:58:11.560 will not join one of the reasons why I will 2042 01:58:11.560 --> 01:58:14.239 not join the Southern Scottish right now. Here's the thing, though, 2043 01:58:14.479 --> 01:58:16.319 this is what you find a lot in masonry, and 2044 01:58:16.359 --> 01:58:20.560 a lot of people aren't aware of this. Many not all, 2045 01:58:20.640 --> 01:58:23.840 but many Masons are legacies, which means my daddy did this, 2046 01:58:23.960 --> 01:58:26.520 his daddy, daddy did this, his daddy daddy, daddy did this, 2047 01:58:27.479 --> 01:58:30.039 and so now it's like whatever, that kind of like, 2048 01:58:30.319 --> 01:58:34.800 you know, weird fucking interpretation of freemasonry is just another 2049 01:58:35.279 --> 01:58:37.359 you know, I don't know, way to make yourself feel 2050 01:58:37.399 --> 01:58:41.880 like a charitable person that gets kind of like boiled 2051 01:58:41.920 --> 01:58:44.920 into this. And this is also why people join these things, 2052 01:58:45.000 --> 01:58:47.159 is my daddy was the thirty second, my daddy was 2053 01:58:47.199 --> 01:58:50.159 the thirty third, And there's this mystique towards what was 2054 01:58:50.159 --> 01:58:52.560 going on because back in those days and to a 2055 01:58:52.640 --> 01:58:55.800 greater extent today, like we don't talk about what goes 2056 01:58:55.840 --> 01:58:58.560 on in the ritual. You can read, sure, go read it, 2057 01:58:58.880 --> 01:59:01.039 but I'm not going to sit here and tell you, you know, 2058 01:59:01.079 --> 01:59:03.199 then I'd be like it would be fucked up, Like 2059 01:59:03.239 --> 01:59:05.119 why did you join this thing? If you're just gonna 2060 01:59:05.119 --> 01:59:07.720 go around and profane it and talk about it all 2061 01:59:07.720 --> 01:59:10.159 the time. So but you can read it. Everything's published, 2062 01:59:10.239 --> 01:59:11.600 Everything is published, right. 2063 01:59:12.279 --> 01:59:14.119 So with that, I have to ask you. 2064 01:59:14.800 --> 01:59:18.279 There are those that say that to get to the 2065 01:59:18.279 --> 01:59:23.079 thirty third level of freemasonry, you have to acknowledge that 2066 01:59:23.119 --> 01:59:25.000 you serve Lucifer. 2067 01:59:26.159 --> 01:59:27.000 What is your take? 2068 01:59:29.439 --> 01:59:32.720 I did a whole video on the Lucifer question. I 2069 01:59:32.760 --> 01:59:34.479 would refer everybody. 2070 01:59:34.039 --> 01:59:37.159 To that give the plug. Where can they find it? 2071 01:59:37.720 --> 01:59:41.960 R kanam ar Ci n vm. It's what is freemasonry? 2072 01:59:42.119 --> 01:59:44.039 Is the name of the episode I did part one 2073 01:59:44.439 --> 01:59:47.520 and part two. It's a really really solid breakdown for 2074 01:59:47.640 --> 01:59:50.560 beginners that'll get you into that. I'm not a third 2075 01:59:50.760 --> 01:59:53.520 thirty third degree. I do know many thirty third degrees, 2076 01:59:53.600 --> 01:59:57.119 and they really, at the very least the way that 2077 01:59:57.159 --> 02:00:00.520 it's done in North Carolina said it's honorary. It's just 2078 02:00:00.560 --> 02:00:04.119 it's like it's just honorary. It's it's like a boys club, 2079 02:00:04.359 --> 02:00:08.760 is really what it is. It's it's not we don't 2080 02:00:09.119 --> 02:00:12.760 you know. The whole Lucifer thing is is really it's 2081 02:00:12.760 --> 02:00:16.960 a problem because where we get the term lucifer from 2082 02:00:17.079 --> 02:00:21.239 is the is the vulgate Latin translation that of the Septuagint. 2083 02:00:21.680 --> 02:00:25.920 So the Septuagint is the the Hebrew Bible or many 2084 02:00:25.920 --> 02:00:30.760 books from the anoch degree, right, And it's this one 2085 02:00:30.840 --> 02:00:34.720 line from the prophet Isaiah where he says he's calling 2086 02:00:34.840 --> 02:00:39.199 a king of Babylon, specifically a king of Babylon by 2087 02:00:39.359 --> 02:00:43.279 a title called Eosforspray, which means dawn star of the 2088 02:00:43.319 --> 02:00:47.359 morning in the Latin translation. In Hebrew, it's helll is 2089 02:00:47.399 --> 02:00:51.000 the name uh in the In the Latin translation you 2090 02:00:51.039 --> 02:00:55.399 get Luki fed or the bearer of the light. Right now, 2091 02:00:55.720 --> 02:00:59.840 Also in second Peter first, first, actually let me point 2092 02:00:59.880 --> 02:01:03.399 out that if you just you keep taking if people 2093 02:01:03.479 --> 02:01:05.640 take that out of context, yeah, I could talk to 2094 02:01:05.880 --> 02:01:08.800 anybody's the morning star at that point. If you read 2095 02:01:08.880 --> 02:01:13.279 the fucking force sentences for paragraphs that are right before that, 2096 02:01:13.560 --> 02:01:17.159 it's extremely clear he's talking about a king of Babylon, 2097 02:01:18.119 --> 02:01:21.000 and that's who he's saying has fallen from on high 2098 02:01:21.159 --> 02:01:21.640 with the thing. 2099 02:01:22.359 --> 02:01:25.640 There's multiple times in the Old Testament where a probably 2100 02:01:25.760 --> 02:01:29.239 speaking to a physical king and referring to him as 2101 02:01:29.239 --> 02:01:32.680 some sort of a demon. He wasn't talking to the king, 2102 02:01:32.960 --> 02:01:35.680 he was talking to the demon that was imbuing. 2103 02:01:35.239 --> 02:01:38.279 This king to that point. There's more. 2104 02:01:38.479 --> 02:01:40.359 But I don't I don't think. I don't, I don't 2105 02:01:40.399 --> 02:01:43.199 think any I. First of all, i'd have to I'd 2106 02:01:43.239 --> 02:01:44.760 have to check on that before I agree with you. 2107 02:01:44.920 --> 02:01:49.159 Second of all, I would say that it's it's abundantly 2108 02:01:49.159 --> 02:01:52.720 clear that he's not talking to satan uh in this 2109 02:01:52.720 --> 02:01:55.279 particular thing. This is the origin of the term. And 2110 02:01:55.319 --> 02:01:57.840 I'll tell you where where this comes from. You you 2111 02:01:57.960 --> 02:02:01.199 then get the Book of Revelations, which is the last 2112 02:02:01.199 --> 02:02:05.880 book written in the Bible. Okay, there's an intertestamental period 2113 02:02:05.880 --> 02:02:08.000 of four hundred years, so you're looking at a bit 2114 02:02:08.119 --> 02:02:13.000 minimum four hundred year difference. But you get John of Patmos, 2115 02:02:13.039 --> 02:02:15.439 who writes the Book of Revelation, and that is where 2116 02:02:15.439 --> 02:02:19.520 we get the story of Satan as a fallen angel. 2117 02:02:20.000 --> 02:02:25.640 So you get a biblical herminuticists and patriarchs, the early 2118 02:02:25.680 --> 02:02:29.159 christiap basiarists like Augustine, they retrofitted this idea of the 2119 02:02:29.199 --> 02:02:34.560 description of Satan in John's Revelation to fit this kind 2120 02:02:34.560 --> 02:02:39.000 of this this passage from Isaiah. It's because and here's 2121 02:02:39.000 --> 02:02:42.960 the thing. In Second Peter of the same translation, the 2122 02:02:43.039 --> 02:02:45.439 apostle Peter calls Jesus Lucifer. 2123 02:02:46.920 --> 02:02:52.399 That again, contextually speaking, you're right, you're right that when 2124 02:02:52.399 --> 02:02:55.159 he calls Jesus that he's talking about a light bringer, 2125 02:02:55.279 --> 02:02:57.159 as in an illumination bringer. 2126 02:02:57.319 --> 02:03:00.800 So here's what you're doing. Here's what you're doing. What 2127 02:03:00.840 --> 02:03:03.800 you're doing is you're kind of selectively kind of playing 2128 02:03:03.840 --> 02:03:06.720 this game where it's like, well, this, this is more 2129 02:03:06.800 --> 02:03:09.640 valid than the other, when in reality you're making you're 2130 02:03:09.640 --> 02:03:13.239 giving yourself the same exception that you're denying over here. 2131 02:03:13.479 --> 02:03:16.800 Not necessarily, dude, to say the methodology. 2132 02:03:16.079 --> 02:03:18.720 There is not it's not it's not really gibing. But 2133 02:03:18.720 --> 02:03:20.920 but I get it. You've you've probably got a stake. 2134 02:03:20.640 --> 02:03:21.239 In the No. 2135 02:03:21.239 --> 02:03:23.640 No, no, to say that would be the same to 2136 02:03:23.680 --> 02:03:29.319 say that language does not translate or traverse over time. 2137 02:03:30.159 --> 02:03:32.840 That being said, a butt dial in a booty call 2138 02:03:32.880 --> 02:03:37.199 would be the same thing. But booty call dial obviously 2139 02:03:37.319 --> 02:03:39.560 these things mean the same thing. No, a butt dial 2140 02:03:39.640 --> 02:03:42.479 means a completely different thing than a booty call. To 2141 02:03:42.600 --> 02:03:46.000 say that, uh, a Lucifer in the Book of Second 2142 02:03:46.000 --> 02:03:48.920 Peer like you're talking about, clearly means the same as 2143 02:03:49.039 --> 02:03:54.760 Lucifer being the fallen Angel in another context. That that's 2144 02:03:55.000 --> 02:03:56.399 intellectually dishonest. 2145 02:03:57.800 --> 02:04:00.479 I don't really see how you're deriving that. I think, 2146 02:04:00.800 --> 02:04:07.600 I think honestly, honestly, if I'm speaking honestly, I'm feeling 2147 02:04:07.760 --> 02:04:10.359 a difficulty in communicating this stuff with you because I 2148 02:04:10.600 --> 02:04:12.760 would have to sit you down and like take you 2149 02:04:12.840 --> 02:04:16.960 through interpretational hermeneutic class uh for you to be able 2150 02:04:16.960 --> 02:04:20.840 to understand what I'm talking about. But there is no reference. 2151 02:04:21.399 --> 02:04:26.479 There's no reference to Satan as Lucifer in anywhere in 2152 02:04:26.520 --> 02:04:29.560 the Bible. Zero, there's zero reference. 2153 02:04:30.039 --> 02:04:31.520 I would have zero reference. 2154 02:04:32.159 --> 02:04:38.039 It's it's other it's other people translating it as such, saying, oh, here, 2155 02:04:38.159 --> 02:04:41.359 Lucifer is Satan. It doesn't say in the Bible. If 2156 02:04:41.399 --> 02:04:44.359 you can show me where in the Bible it actually 2157 02:04:44.399 --> 02:04:48.720 says it using the vulgate Latin. Satan is referred to 2158 02:04:48.880 --> 02:04:52.760 in the New Testament when he tempts Christ, when Christ 2159 02:04:52.840 --> 02:04:56.479 is talking to the the the the heads of the Synagogue. 2160 02:04:57.640 --> 02:05:01.920 Satan is referred to in the Counts of Elyon. He 2161 02:05:02.119 --> 02:05:05.159 is a kind of court adjudicator in the Old Testament, 2162 02:05:05.199 --> 02:05:08.279 but he's never referred to as Lucifer in the Bible. 2163 02:05:08.399 --> 02:05:10.920 How about Isaiah. We're talking Old tests. 2164 02:05:10.760 --> 02:05:13.960 But that's the thing that it doesn't say it's Satan. 2165 02:05:14.000 --> 02:05:16.319 It's just what I just said to you. He's calling 2166 02:05:16.359 --> 02:05:20.319 a king of Babylon Lucifer. He never equates him with 2167 02:05:20.359 --> 02:05:21.640 Satan in the Book of Isaiah. 2168 02:05:21.920 --> 02:05:24.720 No, No, you're talking about the Latin Vulgate, right, we're 2169 02:05:24.720 --> 02:05:25.439 talking about. 2170 02:05:25.279 --> 02:05:28.199 Yeah, but it's the Latin Vulgate. It's the same book. 2171 02:05:28.239 --> 02:05:31.439 It's just a different translations. The Greek is Aos forrest 2172 02:05:31.479 --> 02:05:35.520 de proie, the Hebrew is hellel. I just told you 2173 02:05:35.560 --> 02:05:38.319 all that. Nowhere does he say Satan. 2174 02:05:38.600 --> 02:05:40.399 You said Latin Vulgate. 2175 02:05:40.560 --> 02:05:42.800 So I found example in the Old Testament of the 2176 02:05:42.880 --> 02:05:46.359 Latin Vulgate where Lucifer is being mentioned as a sense 2177 02:05:46.520 --> 02:05:51.039 of Satan, as in the Falling Angel. But we can 2178 02:05:51.119 --> 02:05:53.319 talk about this another time. I would love to have 2179 02:05:53.359 --> 02:05:54.520 you back on the show. 2180 02:05:54.560 --> 02:05:54.720 Bro. 2181 02:05:54.800 --> 02:05:58.640 I feel like we barely just scratched Jesus Christ. I 2182 02:05:58.640 --> 02:06:01.079 feel like we barely scratched the surface of what you 2183 02:06:01.079 --> 02:06:05.079 could bring to the table. Honestly, So, as we are 2184 02:06:05.199 --> 02:06:08.600 rounding out this episode, brother, where can the people find you? 2185 02:06:08.640 --> 02:06:10.640 Where can they find your content? Where can they find 2186 02:06:10.640 --> 02:06:14.800 your podcast? Your socials? Give yourself all the shameless plugs 2187 02:06:14.840 --> 02:06:15.800 at this time. 2188 02:06:16.920 --> 02:06:19.159 Ike Baker dot com. I k E b A k 2189 02:06:19.359 --> 02:06:21.680 e R dot com. That's got like most of my 2190 02:06:21.760 --> 02:06:25.520 stuff up there. The last documentary presentation I made for 2191 02:06:25.560 --> 02:06:28.640 the Arcanum channel, the last three podcast episodes I did, 2192 02:06:28.960 --> 02:06:33.239 I got my blog up there, and uh, just about 2193 02:06:33.239 --> 02:06:35.159 anything else that you want to know about what I'm doing, 2194 02:06:35.239 --> 02:06:38.159 it's all on there. The YouTube channel is Arcanum a 2195 02:06:38.359 --> 02:06:41.119 ar c A n v M. It's like, uh, sort 2196 02:06:41.159 --> 02:06:43.279 of like type styled like the Latin would have been 2197 02:06:43.840 --> 02:06:46.239 kind of foolish, but I liked it at the time. 2198 02:06:47.920 --> 02:06:51.000 That's uh, that's really that's where you can find most 2199 02:06:51.039 --> 02:06:52.800 of my stuff. All my my socials are on there. 2200 02:06:52.800 --> 02:06:56.920 It's under I'm under the same name on Facebook and Instagram. Uh, 2201 02:06:57.000 --> 02:07:00.399 I don't really do uh TikTok or anything like that 2202 02:07:00.560 --> 02:07:03.840 so or snapchat. So really just Facebook and Instagram. But 2203 02:07:03.920 --> 02:07:08.079 the main thing is gonna be Ikebaker dot com. 2204 02:07:08.279 --> 02:07:11.640 Fuck yeah, dude, absolutely so all the good cult members 2205 02:07:11.640 --> 02:07:14.840 please go give our boy a follow, come help us 2206 02:07:14.880 --> 02:07:17.720 boost the algorithms across all the platforms. 2207 02:07:18.600 --> 02:07:19.800 As you have heard. 2208 02:07:19.600 --> 02:07:22.159 On this episode, he is a wealth of knowledge on 2209 02:07:22.279 --> 02:07:25.279 all the things and the stuff, and brother Ike, I 2210 02:07:25.319 --> 02:07:27.920 hope that we can have you back on the show 2211 02:07:28.039 --> 02:07:31.800 sooner rather than later to break down even deeper into 2212 02:07:31.880 --> 02:07:33.800 so many things that we barely scratch the surface on. 2213 02:07:33.960 --> 02:07:37.119 Kind of mentioned in passing, but we need a deeper 2214 02:07:37.159 --> 02:07:40.479 dive on if you'd be willing, I'm sure our listeners 2215 02:07:40.520 --> 02:07:41.520 would love to hear it. 2216 02:07:42.880 --> 02:07:46.000 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, There's there's so much too, There's so 2217 02:07:46.199 --> 02:07:49.760 much to talk about that it's just like, you know, 2218 02:07:50.199 --> 02:07:53.279 we we might we might serve ourselves a little better 2219 02:07:53.439 --> 02:07:58.039 choosing like one topic to dial down into, you know. 2220 02:07:58.239 --> 02:08:01.760 But I also like you about side masonry, dude, I 2221 02:08:01.800 --> 02:08:04.359 have so many other questions I didn't get to ask 2222 02:08:04.399 --> 02:08:05.760 you on this episode, honestly. 2223 02:08:06.399 --> 02:08:09.119 Yeah, well we can. We can dive into that and 2224 02:08:09.159 --> 02:08:11.479 other stuff on the next time. But thanks for having 2225 02:08:11.520 --> 02:08:15.159 me on. I really appreciate it, and thanks to everybody 2226 02:08:15.239 --> 02:08:17.159 that has tuned in and listened. 2227 02:08:18.720 --> 02:08:21.920 Lily Ravenly, if you have anything you would like to 2228 02:08:22.399 --> 02:08:24.840 send off as far as the cult members to give 2229 02:08:24.880 --> 02:08:25.680 them a little. 2230 02:08:25.479 --> 02:08:28.000 Bit of a you know, a vibe. Where are you 2231 02:08:28.039 --> 02:08:28.760 at with all of this? 2232 02:08:29.880 --> 02:08:32.800 I thought it was really interesting. There's a lot of information, 2233 02:08:32.960 --> 02:08:36.720 like a lot of information, So I liked it. I mean, 2234 02:08:36.760 --> 02:08:40.279 I was a lot more breakdown of things that I've 2235 02:08:40.279 --> 02:08:43.920 been curious about, So I'm definitely interested in having you 2236 02:08:44.000 --> 02:08:46.640 back on to break everything down even further so that 2237 02:08:46.680 --> 02:08:49.279 way we can kind of dispel a lot of these 2238 02:08:49.359 --> 02:08:53.359 conspiracies that many of these organizations have around them and 2239 02:08:53.439 --> 02:08:58.399 actually getting to the actual scholarly the information about it 2240 02:08:58.439 --> 02:09:02.279 is what I'm interested into. So thank you for illuminating 2241 02:09:02.359 --> 02:09:04.439 us with all of this information, because I'm sure that 2242 02:09:04.560 --> 02:09:08.159 actually helped a lot of us understand more about it. 2243 02:09:08.239 --> 02:09:11.680 So good cult members. As we wrap this episode up, 2244 02:09:12.000 --> 02:09:13.560 you would like to get your start in the buying 2245 02:09:13.600 --> 02:09:15.560 and selling and trading of gold and silver, Bully in 2246 02:09:15.600 --> 02:09:17.960 the go to link in the description below to cecsilver 2247 02:09:18.560 --> 02:09:20.600 dot com and get your start today. Do you want 2248 02:09:20.600 --> 02:09:21.800 to buy a little bit? Do you want to buy 2249 02:09:21.800 --> 02:09:24.000 a lot of bit? Listen, talk to your financial advisor, 2250 02:09:24.399 --> 02:09:28.920 talk to your CPA whoever's handling your your retirement portfolio, 2251 02:09:28.960 --> 02:09:31.399 and ask them what they think about investing in precious metals. 2252 02:09:31.640 --> 02:09:34.399 Once they tell you the truth of the matter, I. 2253 02:09:34.279 --> 02:09:36.600 Hope we see you over at coecsilver dot com to 2254 02:09:36.640 --> 02:09:38.399 get your start in the buying and selling and trading 2255 02:09:38.439 --> 02:09:41.319 of gold and silver, Billy and Today if you would 2256 02:09:41.399 --> 02:09:46.359 like to flavor your food with a good, healthy, wholesome ingredient, 2257 02:09:46.399 --> 02:09:49.000 then go check out flavors Oftheforest dot com. 2258 02:09:49.399 --> 02:09:52.319 Use the promo code Cult at checkout. CULC. 2259 02:09:52.800 --> 02:09:55.880 They have their regular Bigfoot Breadth variety, they got their 2260 02:09:55.920 --> 02:09:58.840 Lion's Main variety. They got a Cajun line coming out soon, 2261 02:09:58.920 --> 02:10:00.399 be on the lookout for that one. 2262 02:10:00.640 --> 02:10:02.760 Go check them out flavors Oftheforest dot com. 2263 02:10:02.840 --> 02:10:05.840 Use a promo code Cult at checkout for fifteen percent 2264 02:10:05.960 --> 02:10:06.680 off your order. 2265 02:10:06.800 --> 02:10:09.960 All orders over thirty dollars are free shipping to your doors. 2266 02:10:10.640 --> 02:10:13.000 But another good way to support the cult, good members 2267 02:10:13.039 --> 02:10:15.199 and let us know what you think about this episode 2268 02:10:15.199 --> 02:10:17.760 and all of the wild things we talked about this episode, 2269 02:10:17.760 --> 02:10:21.000 would be to please hit the five stars in the 2270 02:10:21.000 --> 02:10:23.720 shares of licens cribs comments, the well posting reviewers shares 2271 02:10:23.760 --> 02:10:24.840 to the friends and family shares. 2272 02:10:24.880 --> 02:10:25.720 If we're here's the deal. 2273 02:10:26.479 --> 02:10:28.439 The more activity the algorithm seas across all of all 2274 02:10:28.479 --> 02:10:30.039 listening platforms, the more we get promoted. 2275 02:10:30.079 --> 02:10:32.479 More potential listeners, So could that become potential cult. 2276 02:10:32.319 --> 02:10:34.119 Members like the rest of you, fine laies and gentlemen, 2277 02:10:34.159 --> 02:10:36.479 Why are you ready to go check out minimistics Jonathan's 2278 02:10:36.520 --> 02:10:38.399 of the show and give him the same love and 2279 02:10:38.439 --> 02:10:39.680 respect over the five. 2280 02:10:39.520 --> 02:10:41.439 Star views and the positivity in the comments. 2281 02:10:41.640 --> 02:10:44.159 Come check out the Cage tonight and come join each 2282 02:10:44.199 --> 02:10:46.800 of us for our individual Patreon lives wheels every Wednesday 2283 02:10:46.880 --> 02:10:49.199 night in MPM Central links and those of the description 2284 02:10:49.279 --> 02:10:51.680 as well. And we thank you for everybody's already gone 2285 02:10:51.680 --> 02:10:54.760 and done so. And with all that being said, this 2286 02:10:55.039 --> 02:10:59.399 was another beautiful episode of the Cult of Conspiracy and 2287 02:10:59.439 --> 02:11:03.279 I'm the Cage like in recently, and there's one very important, 2288 02:11:03.279 --> 02:11:05.760 extremely vital piece of information needs to learn just as 2289 02:11:05.800 --> 02:11:08.960 soon as humanly possible that