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That's by 22 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:01.159 casino dot com. 23 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:03.399 Will protus d wherever he be by lost the terms 24 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:04.280 conditions eighteen plus. 25 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:18.840 You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking 26 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:21.959 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 27 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:28.120 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker BTK. 28 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:32.799 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 29 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:37.000 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 30 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:40.519 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 31 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:52.799 Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupaski for the 32 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:56.079 program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True crime 33 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:59.359 History and the authors that are written about them. One 34 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:04.239 late evening in twenty ten, Shannon Gilbert, after running through 35 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:07.239 the ocean front community of Oak Beach screaming for her life, 36 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:12.120 went missing. No one who had heard of her disappearance 37 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.120 thought much about what had happened to the twenty four 38 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:18.039 year old. She was a craigslist prostitute, had been who 39 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.840 had been fleeing a scene of what no one could 40 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:24.319 be sure. The Suffolk County Police, too, seemed to have 41 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:28.000 paid little attention until seven months later, when an unexpected 42 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:31.159 discovery in a bramble alongside a nearby highway turned up 43 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:35.080 four bodies, all evenly spaced, all wrapped in burlap, but 44 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:39.599 none of them Shannon's. There was Maureene Brainerd Barnes, last 45 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:43.400 scene at Penn Station in Manhattan three years earlier, and 46 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:47.039 Melissa barth Emily last seen in The Bronx in two 47 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:50.240 thousand and nine. There was Magan Waterman, last scene leaving 48 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:54.199 a hotel in Wapogue, Long Island just a month after 49 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:59.960 Shannon's disappearance in twenty ten, and Amber ln Costello last 50 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:02.280 seen leaving a house in West Babylon a few months 51 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:05.840 later that same year. Like shen and, all four women 52 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.840 were petite and in their twenties. They all came from 53 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:11.400 out of town to work as escorts, and they all 54 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:16.199 advertised on Craigslist and its competitor backpage. Lost Girls is 55 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:18.919 a portrait not just of five women, but of unsolved 56 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.400 murder in an idyllic part of America, of the underside 57 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.879 of the Internet, and of the secrets we keep without 58 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.039 admitting to ourselves that we keep them. The book that 59 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:33.759 we're featuring this evening is Lost Girls and Unsolved American Mystery, 60 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:38.400 with my special guests, journalist and author Robert Coker. Welcome 61 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:40.960 to the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview. 62 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:45.240 Robert Cocher I'm pleased to be on. Thank you, Thank 63 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:46.080 you very much. Bob. 64 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:52.960 A dedicated fan of the program and someone that suggested 65 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:57.560 that I get in touch with you and ask you 66 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:01.479 for an interview for this program. Her name is Susie. 67 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:05.599 She has contacted me and I asked this question often, 68 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:09.520 but she put in a little more eloquent terms. What 69 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:11.919 are the how did you become how did you come 70 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.759 to this story, Bob, and what are the circumstances that 71 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:18.160 led to writing this book? Give us your background and 72 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:21.720 how you came to be able to write this Lost Girls? 73 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:25.920 Okay, Dan, thanks, I appreciate the question from from you 74 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:29.720 and from Susie. I'm a writer for New York Magazine. 75 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.240 I write feature stories and cover stories for the magazine 76 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:36.600 that are you know that are based on reporting of 77 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:40.639 news events and often their crime stories. And so when 78 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:47.040 four unidentified bodies were discovered right all near each other 79 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:50.720 and bound in burlap, right on a beach in Long Island, 80 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.199 it was clearly a story that would be interesting to 81 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:59.839 any reporter. Then the bodies were identified, and it was 82 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:04.519 that they were Craigslist escorts. And the most interesting thing 83 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:08.040 happened among a lot of people in the New York 84 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.120 area interest in this case sort of deflated a little bit. 85 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:16.839 It all kind of got a little quieter for some reason, 86 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:21.439 because people said, oh, these women were prostesies, and that 87 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:23.839 to me was the first time that something unusual was 88 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:28.600 going on here. It became very clear as time went 89 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:31.759 on that this happens a lot in serial killer cases, 90 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:36.800 that serial killers actually rely on the idea that their 91 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.399 victims will not be missed, and that even if they 92 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:44.000 were discovered, that the public won't necessarily go on a 93 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:47.800 crusade to find them, because as a society we stigmatize 94 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:51.000 these women and decide somehow that they have it coming. 95 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:54.439 Never mind that the Johns are also breaking the law, 96 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:56.759 The pimps are breaking the law, the drivers are breaking 97 00:05:56.839 --> 00:06:01.240 the law. So then tis time went on became more complicated, 98 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:03.040 and in Lost Girls, I cover all the ins and 99 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:06.959 outs of the case. I as a reporter, got to 100 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:09.439 know some of the family members of some of these women, 101 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:17.199 and it became immediately clear that they defied expectations I 102 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:19.199 had assumed, and I think a lot of other people 103 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:22.319 had too, that these women didn't have families, that they 104 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:25.120 didn't have people in their lives who cared about them 105 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:29.439 that they were somehow lost to the world long before 106 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:33.319 they actually disappeared and were murdered. And what I learned 107 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:35.600 is that nothing could be further from the truth. These 108 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:38.399 women had very close relationships with family members, stayed in 109 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:43.040 constant touch, and were leading more or less semi functional 110 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:47.160 lives for a very long time. And they are family 111 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:51.399 members cared deeply when they went missing, and it was 112 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:55.959 in many cases law enforcement that dropped the ball when 113 00:06:55.959 --> 00:07:00.720 they disappeared, because again, our society stigmatizes in this line 114 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:08.560 of work. From there, it became clear that the women 115 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:12.240 involved were doing something new in terms of prostitution. They 116 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:16.079 were taking advantage of the Internet, and this allowed them 117 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:19.160 to lead even more mainstream lives than previous generations and 118 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.199 prostitutes have been able to do. They no longer have 119 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:25.800 to go to a bad neighborhood. They can work out 120 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:28.160 of their home. They don't need to work for a pimp. 121 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:30.000 They can be their own boss, they can set their 122 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.120 own hours. They can lead a kind of a compartmentalized life. 123 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:35.199 Their prostitution life can be in a box. They can 124 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:37.319 just do it a few days and months and then 125 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:40.560 lead normal lives the rest of the time, and that 126 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.240 meant that in many cases, these women were people who 127 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.360 might never have become prostitutes ten or fifteen years ago, 128 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:48.720 but the Internet made it easier for them. It lowered 129 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.160 the barrier to entry, and it made them feel safer 130 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:53.399 because they weren't walking the streets the way that you'd 131 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:57.560 have to. And all of these factors were things that 132 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:00.879 put them in harm's way. And I thought myself, after 133 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:03.600 writing a magazine story about the case that brought the 134 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:07.560 family members together, wouldn't it be great to write a 135 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:11.759 book that made it clear to the public who these 136 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:15.240 women really were, and to make them seem more than 137 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:19.480 just cardboard characters or extras in a serial killer case. 138 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:21.920 What if we could understand what it is exactly that 139 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:25.879 makes women like this so vulnerable. It's not just that 140 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:28.839 they chose to take this risk, it's that we chose 141 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:32.159 to turn our backs on them. And what have I 142 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:34.000 got to know their families better? And what have I 143 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:36.039 got to know their communities better? And what if their 144 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:39.399 lives were actually windows into a part of America that 145 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.000 the media doesn't really talk about much. All these women 146 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:45.159 came from struggling parts of America that the media doesn't 147 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:48.360 talk about. Places where opportunities have been drying up and 148 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:52.559 where the recession is still going strong. Places where a 149 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.080 generation earlier there might have been jobs, but now the 150 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.960 best jobs are at dunkin Donuts or at Walmart, and 151 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:03.360 now the Internet, there's a temptation for some women to 152 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:06.799 make more money in one night than their friends and 153 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:09.879 neighbors are making in a week or two weeks working 154 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:13.759 at the local gas station or convenience store. This is 155 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:17.639 a part of America that I really think deserves attention, 156 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:20.879 and so I thought Lost Girls could do that as well. 157 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:24.320 But for your listeners, obviously, Lost Girls is also a 158 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:26.799 murder mystery, and I go through the ins and outs 159 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:30.960 of the case. I have exclusive interviews with people who 160 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:33.679 are considered persons of interest in the case by the public. 161 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:36.639 I speak with the police commissioner at the time and 162 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:39.720 the chief of detectives at the time. There are exclusive 163 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:42.279 interviews there as well, and with a John who's at 164 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:45.559 the center of the case as well. So what I 165 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:47.639 wanted to offer readers was a three hundred and sixty 166 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:50.679 degree view of a murder mystery and also of a 167 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:53.559 broader mystery of what it is in our society that 168 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:56.120 makes women like this so vulnerable. 169 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.679 Now, for our audience and of those that want to 170 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:05.840 know about this book, let's talk about the catalyst for 171 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:11.480 the discovery of these women and for the impetus for 172 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:14.200 you to do this story as well as because unfortunately, 173 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:21.080 these characters come only to light after their deceased. So 174 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:25.399 let's go back to this evening in twenty ten with 175 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:29.480 Shannon Gilbert and tell us first who Shannon Gilbert was. 176 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:32.240 Tell us from the beginning who Shannon Gilbert was, and 177 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:35.840 we can get to this faithful evening where she disappears. 178 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:38.519 So take us back and tell us what you found 179 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:43.759 out from all your research about who Shannon Gilbert was 180 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:48.279 and how she was formed and some of the formulative 181 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:49.480 years for her. 182 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:53.279 Well, the initial reports of this case made it clear 183 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:56.840 that Shannon Gilbert was working for herself, you know, posting 184 00:10:56.879 --> 00:10:59.039 ads on Craigslist. That she was living at the time 185 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:02.399 in Jersey City News, which if your listeners aren't familiar, 186 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.240 is very pretty far away from the area in Long 187 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:10.639 Island where she disappeared, and that she was driven by 188 00:11:10.679 --> 00:11:13.320 a driver who shared some of the money that she 189 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:15.360 would bring in as a prostitute, and the two of 190 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:20.159 them were kind of in business together. And it also 191 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:23.759 said that she had grown up in Ellenville, New York, 192 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:27.120 which is upstate. It's sort of halfway between New York 193 00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:29.720 City and the state capitol, Albany. It saw in a 194 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:35.159 in a kind of a more rural or not really suburban, 195 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:38.879 more rural part of the state, and she, you know, 196 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:41.080 obviously came to the New York area to make money. 197 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.240 And then there were a couple of reports that said 198 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:49.279 that perhaps that she had been prescribed antidepressants and you know, 199 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:52.519 might have used substances. And that's really all anyone knew. 200 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:59.120 But the mystery about Shannon in her life is exactly 201 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:02.559 what her childhood like. Because it also became clear over 202 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.320 time that she was I had a mother, and she 203 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:09.840 had three sisters, and that the family all lived in Ellenville, 204 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:11.759 but that Shannon didn't always live with the rest of 205 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:14.480 her family. And what I had learned through my research 206 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:19.799 and lost Girls was that through various family complications and 207 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:25.039 difficulties that her mother was having, Shannon ended up living 208 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.480 in foster care for almost her entire childhood, from the 209 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:32.639 time she was seven years old going forward, she maybe 210 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:37.440 only lived at home for about a year. Despite all this, 211 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.559 she got excellent grades. She graduated high school from a 212 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:43.720 very good high school, New Paul's High School, and just 213 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.879 after just three years of high school education. She had 214 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:51.799 an amazing singing voice. She performed for her friends and 215 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:56.159 they loved listening to her singing. She was a buoyant, upbeat, 216 00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:00.159 joyful personality around her friends. There was no suggestion that 217 00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:03.679 this foster care situation was eating away at her. You know, 218 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:06.720 there was none of the you know kind of trauma, 219 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:10.200 that obvious trauma that the stereotype you might expect what 220 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:13.399 happened in terms of someone deciding to become a prostitute. 221 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:17.879 But she was a restless person with ambitions and in 222 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:19.879 Lost Girls, as you get to know her better, you 223 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.399 learn exactly what motivates her to go off to try 224 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.879 to make a name for herself, and that is that, 225 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:30.440 according to many of her friends and those who k 226 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:34.960 who are best, she really wanted to re enter her 227 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:38.039 family and be welcome back into her family and to 228 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.639 have a position of power within her family. And making 229 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.000 money from prostitution for a short period of time actually 230 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:47.840 was helpful to her in this way. She was able 231 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:50.840 to buy people presents and you know, swoop into town 232 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:55.559 and treat everybody to, you know, whatever they wanted, because 233 00:13:55.600 --> 00:14:00.759 she had the money, and everyone was concerned learned about her. 234 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:04.200 But of course nobody in this book thinks, you know, 235 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:06.720 none of the characters in the book think that they're 236 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.759 going to be murdered by a serial killer, and so, 237 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:13.039 you know, not a lot was done to really stop her. Also, 238 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:16.799 she was such a fiercely independent and energetic person that 239 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:21.159 it was hard to imagine her putting herself in harm's 240 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:23.679 way and not being able to defend herself. And in fact, 241 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:26.320 in Lost Girls, her mother Mary points out, you know, 242 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:29.679 she fought back. She ran screaming from this house in 243 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:34.639 Oak Beach. We can talk more about the circumstances of 244 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.120 her disappearance now or later in the program, but that 245 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:39.559 Knight at Oak Beach has probed extensively in the book, 246 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:41.759 from the point of view of her driver, from the 247 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.799 point of view of her John, from a neighbor down 248 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:47.320 the block, from the police, and then from several people 249 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:50.919 who have researched the case independently on webs Less, which 250 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:53.240 I'm sure your listeners know about, you know, one of 251 00:14:53.279 --> 00:15:00.000 the great major independent, you know, internet sites where people 252 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:02.120 we'll talk to one another and share information and try 253 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.159 and do their own saluting at home about a case. 254 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:05.720 Interesting. 255 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:07.360 So that's Shannon. 256 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:12.679 Tell us about the disappearance of the events leading up 257 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.039 to the disappearance. Actually, like you say, with the driver 258 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:18.600 and the client's called and he's conted through, she's contacted 259 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:19.919 through crazylists. Tell us about that. 260 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:26.200 Well, it was the last night of April in twenty ten, 261 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:32.240 and she had gone that night to a movie, a 262 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:34.840 Freddy Krueger movie, I think, with her boyfriend Alex, who 263 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.080 used to be a driver at an escort service back 264 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.600 in the days when Shannon was working for an escort service. 265 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.240 And after the movie ended at about ten pm, and 266 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.279 she told her boyfriend that she had to work, and 267 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:48.360 she said goodbye to him, and she hopped on the 268 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:52.000 commuter train from Jersey City into Manhattan. She went into 269 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.519 Manhattan and she went to a street corner and waited 270 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:58.279 for her ride. For her driver. Her driver's name is 271 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:02.799 Michael Pack and she had been working together several nights 272 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:05.279 a week for at least eight or nine months. They 273 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:08.200 were friendly and had a nice, you know, rapport going. 274 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:12.039 And he came and picked her up at the place 275 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:14.720 that they had determined and she got into the car 276 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.960 and with a you know, with a little netbook and 277 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:22.480 with her phone, she posted an ad and waited for 278 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:25.240 a call. But it was a slow night, and she 279 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:29.080 had one call several blocks away from where they had met. 280 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:33.279 But there really was nothing else going on except a 281 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:36.080 call coming out from Long Island, from way out in 282 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:40.159 Long Islands, more than an hour's drive from mid Timp Manhattan, 283 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:43.480 even that late at night, and that call came from 284 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:47.519 a gentleman named Joe Brewer, who was the john at 285 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:53.600 the house where she disappeared. They decided that, given that 286 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.480 it was a two hour minimum, you know, for this appointment, 287 00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:59.120 that they would go out there, because in many cases 288 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:01.759 you can take a two hour date and try and 289 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.119 extend it into a three or even four hour date, 290 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:07.599 which would end up paying for the whole night, and 291 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:10.240 it wouldn't matter that they traveled so far. And so 292 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.359 with that in mind, they decided to drive out there. 293 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:14.920 They went out to Oak Beach, which is a secluded 294 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.480 beach community in Long Island where on paper all the 295 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:21.559 residents are millionaires because they have beach front property, but 296 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:25.160 in fact it's a much more peculiar place than that. 297 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:29.720 This isn't like East Hampton or West Hampton or one 298 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.960 of these millionaires rose. It's filled with middle class and 299 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.240 even some working class people who families have owned these 300 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:39.799 houses and they've watched the values rise up. And it's 301 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:43.599 secluded and far away from the rest of Long Island. 302 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:46.440 You've got this metropolitan area of over ten million people 303 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:51.599 all around, and yet Oak Beach is just seventy two homes, 304 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:54.480 a twenty minute drive from the nearest convenience store, from 305 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:57.440 the nearest gas station, from the nearest supermarket. If you 306 00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:59.880 want to court a milk, you've got to drive twenty 307 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:02.359 minutes over a bridge into the rest of Long Island. 308 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:04.920 So the only people who live here are people who 309 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.039 are desperately holding on to homes because of their value, 310 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:13.640 people who like to live remotely, who want to be 311 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:15.799 off the beaten track, people who want to be a 312 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:18.680 big fish in a small pond, or don't want to 313 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.880 be hassled. And in this case, Joe Brewer enjoyed his 314 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:25.119 house because it was a party pit for him and 315 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:28.319 his friends. It was almost like a frat house for him. 316 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:35.640 He was, you know, a father, but divorced, hadn't worked 317 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:37.839 for a while, had a little money in his family 318 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:43.640 and was basically hanging out and had hired prostitutes there 319 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:48.720 in the past, and Shannon was just another one. So 320 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:54.319 they show up. She goes in Michael Pack the driver 321 00:18:54.440 --> 00:19:00.160 waits outside for you know, an hour, maybe two, but 322 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:02.799 early on she gets he gets a phone call from 323 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:06.880 Shannon saying that she and the John are going to 324 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:12.599 go out on a drive to run an errand. Michael 325 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.319 Pack isn't sure exactly what that errand is for, but 326 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:19.200 he assumes it's to go get drugs. They aren't gone 327 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:21.480 more than ten or fifteen minutes, which means they didn't 328 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:26.759 leave the general area of Oak Beach, right. They come 329 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:29.680 back and Michael Pack keeps you know, hanging out in 330 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:33.559 his car, playing poker on his cellphone, waiting for the 331 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:36.559 date to keep going. At some point he gets another 332 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.240 call from Shannon. This time Shannon is asking him to 333 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:43.079 go off to the nearest pharmacy or a drug store 334 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.640 and get some things that might help keep the the 335 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:52.319 date going longer, things like playing cards and you know 336 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:52.920 k why. 337 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:54.160 And so. 338 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.279 Michael Pack looks on Google and sees that the nearest 339 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:01.640 pharmacy is too far away to go, and he says 340 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:03.640 it's too far away. I don't want to do it, 341 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.480 and she makes a little stink and gets mad at 342 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:08.079 him and then hangs up the phone. But then the 343 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:14.000 date continues, and then suddenly, sometime between five and six 344 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:17.599 in the morning, there's a tap on the car window 345 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:20.279 of Michael Pack's car and it's Joe Brewer, and he 346 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:24.319 puts down his window and Brewer says, she won't leave. 347 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:29.400 This is very unusual for a john to be in 348 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:33.359 contact with the driver. And what Brewer seemed to be 349 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:37.000 telling Michael Pack was got We've got a problem. I 350 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:40.279 want this date to end, and you know your girl 351 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.039 isn't leaving the house. And so Michael Pack reluctantly gets 352 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.319 out of the car and follows Brewer into the house. 353 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.279 And what follows, at least according to Michael Pack, is 354 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:54.200 a very peculiar chain of events where Shannon is refusing 355 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.599 to leave, but is crouched behind a couch and trying 356 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.359 to keep away from not just from Joe Brow but 357 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.960 from Michael Pack. And slowly it becomes clear to Michael 358 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:08.359 that Shannon is on the telephone with the police with 359 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.200 nine one one, trying to say what's going on here 360 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:14.839 and what she says, is they're trying to kill me. 361 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.640 Michael Pack tries a couple things to try to convince 362 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.799 Shannon to come with him. She refuses. Brewer tries to 363 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:28.680 at one point to grab a hold of her to 364 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.440 get her out of the house, and she screams and 365 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:34.319 runs away. Brewer throws up his hands and walks out 366 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:36.920 of the house. All these events, by the way, are 367 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.279 according to Michael Pack, so it's his version of events. 368 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:41.720 It's unclear this is exactly what happened, but this is 369 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:47.400 based on his recollection. And so now no one knows 370 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:50.160 what to do. And Michael Pack says, forget it, I'm 371 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.160 out of here, and he leaves the house and sits 372 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:54.519 in the car again. And that's when Shannon comes running 373 00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:58.920 out of the house, screaming, stumbling and running again into 374 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:03.240 the darkness. Now I want to slow down even further 375 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:05.599 and talk with your listeners about what a peculiar moment, 376 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:09.039 says Shannon Gilbert has never been to Oak Beach before. 377 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:11.000 She does no idea where she is or how she 378 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:16.160 got there. She was driven there. She it's the middle 379 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.079 of the night or actually dawn and will be breaking soon, 380 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:22.319 but it's still very dark outside. She can't see a thing. 381 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:26.839 The only soul she knows in this area is her driver, 382 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:31.559 Michael Pack and yet she runs away from him into 383 00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:37.720 the darkness. And he is supposed to be her security detail. 384 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:39.799 He is supposed to be the one who's guaranteeing that 385 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:42.759 she gets out of there just fine. And yet she's 386 00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:44.920 not just running away from her John, she's running away 387 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:49.960 from him. It is unclear exactly why she is so upset. 388 00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:52.880 Joe Brewer might have told the police more than he's 389 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.279 told the public, but it's very clear that he must 390 00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:00.359 know something about why she is so upset. The police 391 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:04.119 have tried to describe her behavior as a reaction to 392 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:08.519 the drugs, a psychotic break, but that doesn't explain why 393 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:10.480 she could be on the telephone, Why she would be 394 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:12.799 on the telephone with nine one one for twenty three minutes. 395 00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:17.400 That is not a lot of people believe, that is 396 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:20.599 not the work of an irrational person. Again, it's highly 397 00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.359 unusual for a prostitute to be calling the police anyway, 398 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.880 because you know the police are only going to cause 399 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:29.319 trouble for her, and so a lot of people believe, 400 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:35.039 and based on my findings and lost Girls, I am 401 00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:39.640