Speaker 1: Murders and human remains are discovered in many ways, bodies
Speaker 1: being found in forested areas and graves being dug up
Speaker 1: in urban backyards. But sometimes these gruesome discoveries can come
Speaker 1: in very unexpected ways, like in today's case when someone
Speaker 1: was living with mummified remains that answered a fifteen year
Speaker 1: missing person's case.
Speaker 2: Warning the following podcasts and material intended for a mature audience,
Speaker 2: listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: Hey, how's it going. My name's Ben.
Speaker 3: And I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicket and Grim.
Speaker 1: A true crime podcast. And I have like a tickle
Speaker 1: in my throat today, So I'm sorry if I'm coughing lots.
Speaker 1: Do have water?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not getting sick, are you?
Speaker 1: No? I don't think so. It's just like I can't
Speaker 1: like there's an itch, a tickle, yeah, and I can't
Speaker 1: get it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I have that a little bit right now too. It
Speaker 3: is probably just from our dinner because it's a bit
Speaker 3: smoky in here. Maybe I think maybe it's possible it's
Speaker 3: really smoky sometimes in this tiny home.
Speaker 1: That's true. There's not a lot of well not a
Speaker 1: whole lot of space. For air to flow, you know exactly,
Speaker 1: but also if you open a window, it clears out
Speaker 1: real quick, it does. Hopefully you guys are doing good.
Speaker 1: We get a couple of topics you want to touch
Speaker 1: on here right out of the gate. Well one primarily
Speaker 1: if I can get this tickle out of my throat.
Speaker 1: Oh no, But we are talking about Casey Anthony. If
Speaker 1: you haven't heard, there's a new docum entry coming out
Speaker 1: about her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very I don't want to say excited, but
Speaker 3: what's a word intrigued? Intrigued? Interested?
Speaker 1: Okay, watching this, Well, we want to give you guys
Speaker 1: a bit of heads up because if you're not aware,
Speaker 1: as far as we can tell, this documentary does not
Speaker 1: follow the whole Son of Sam law, which means Casey
Speaker 1: has the potential to be earning money and revenue from
Speaker 1: this documentary, which I don't love. No, and she was
Speaker 1: in a court of law found guilty for her crimes,
Speaker 1: which we did a whole episode on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're gonna we're going to go and listen to
Speaker 3: that episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to refresh ourselves on these details. And
Speaker 1: we want to ask you guys. I mean, you're completely
Speaker 1: allowed to do whatever you want. Don't get us wrong here,
Speaker 1: but we want to say we suggest you refrain from
Speaker 1: listening or watching this documentary it's coming out on casey
Speaker 1: because what we're planning on doing is because that she
Speaker 1: might be gaining monetary value from this and she's apparently
Speaker 1: speaks her truth whatever that means. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1: Everyone deserves their truth. Yeah, however, she found guilty in
Speaker 1: a court of long you.
Speaker 3: Think that it would have already come out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So whatever she has to say, we're gonna go
Speaker 1: ahead and we're gonna watch it, and we're gonna deliver you, guys,
Speaker 1: whether it's a worthwhile watch, whether it's worth ensuring that
Speaker 1: she does gain monetary value from this documentary, because if
Speaker 1: she's just spewing absolute bullshit saying she was the victim
Speaker 1: when she murdered her family, I don't think she should
Speaker 1: be gaining from that, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna go ahead and watch it. We'll tell
Speaker 1: you if she is spewing bullshit or if she has
Speaker 1: something worthwhile to actually say.
Speaker 3: I mean, gosh, if they're putting out a whole show
Speaker 3: episode series, I don't know on this. You think that
Speaker 3: she's going to be dropping a bomb, you would think so.
Speaker 3: But then also, she had her time to be dropping
Speaker 3: these bombs.
Speaker 1: Exactly. If she dropped a bomb, you'd think it would
Speaker 1: have occurred in the courtroom. There's two scenarios that I
Speaker 1: can think of. She's a dropping something that was thrown
Speaker 1: out in court and that's why she's disputing it, being like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a very big piece of this
Speaker 1: puzzle that they're not listening to. Or two, it's absolute bullshit.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's one or the other, no in between.
Speaker 1: And I do think that it's It could very well
Speaker 1: be that, like true crime has become a very big genre.
Speaker 3: Last couple of years, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: So, I do think it could just be that a
Speaker 1: production studio or a company is just trying to cash
Speaker 1: in on offered. Yeah, say here, let's do this. We're
Speaker 1: going to make big bucks together. So I think it
Speaker 1: could be potentially a corrupt studio behind her. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't even know the studio that make that's making it,
Speaker 1: so I can't say that.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, there's probably a lot of money to be
Speaker 3: had from this, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I have a feeling that could very well
Speaker 1: be the fact when.
Speaker 3: I really don't love the fact that she could be
Speaker 3: making money from this, Like that feels just dirty, doesn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I.
Speaker 1: Think that's why we should watch it, because we can
Speaker 1: tell you, guys, like we have a bit of reach, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So if you guys don't watch it, we can watch it,
Speaker 1: and it's like sense pennies going to her from just
Speaker 1: us watching it and we can tell you definitely don't
Speaker 1: watch it, and then we're preventing her from gaining more.
Speaker 3: Money, and we will be honest for sure.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely sure. So just I mean, of course, do
Speaker 1: whatever you want if you want to watch it, watch it,
Speaker 1: but we're just suggesting listen to what we're we're gonna
Speaker 1: say about it from watching it first, and then you
Speaker 1: can make your judgment call from there, if that's fair. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: that aside, if that, If that all makes sense? Anyways,
Speaker 1: are our intent for that? You ready to move on
Speaker 1: to patrons?
Speaker 3: I'm totally ready.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we have a few patrons join us this week.
Speaker 1: Do I have a hair in my mouth?
Speaker 3: Wow? Dog, hare you have a lot going on over
Speaker 3: there today, I do. Really? Are you going to be good?
Speaker 1: I think so? If I. If I don't make it,
Speaker 1: please just carry on without me, Okay, just take the
Speaker 1: laptop and the notes and keep going with.
Speaker 3: The case and I'll just read us through perfect.
Speaker 1: So as for patrons, we have Christina o Janima who's
Speaker 1: joined up, Amy Evanka, and Nicole White. They all joined
Speaker 1: us Patreon, so thank you to them, big shout out.
Speaker 1: And if you want to join us as well, links
Speaker 1: down below, you know what to do. But if not,
Speaker 1: it's cool that you're here too. We appreciate that.
Speaker 3: We appreciate it. Just all all of it, all the.
Speaker 1: Above, all the above. Yeah, exactly what Nicole says. Always
Speaker 1: listen to Nicole. She's always right.
Speaker 3: I am always right. You learned that, didn't you.
Speaker 1: I learned to tell you you're always right.
Speaker 3: Because, to be honest, I'm like, no, it's probably a year,
Speaker 3: probably more right than me. I shouldn't be saying that.
Speaker 3: Oh God, I'll take that back eventually, but you're bad.
Speaker 1: Was recorded I know out there forever now.
Speaker 3: You're probably more right more often than me. Probably I
Speaker 3: need to I need to listen to you more.
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, I am so glad that this thing is
Speaker 1: recording right now.
Speaker 3: We'll edit this out I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: Nope, I'm the one who edits and I'm leaving that
Speaker 1: in there. I can tell you that right now. Anyways,
Speaker 1: moving on, let's get on with today's story, shall we.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very interested for this one because you gave
Speaker 3: me a tidbit. Usually I'm in the dark. I'm fully
Speaker 3: usually in the dark, but this time you gave me
Speaker 3: freaking one liner on this and it got my attention.
Speaker 1: It's it's a gooder. It's a little bit different of
Speaker 1: a story. And that one little tidbit of information I'm
Speaker 1: not going to tell you guys out there right now
Speaker 1: because you're about to hear the story. Yeah, but as
Speaker 1: soon as I say that tidbit of information will let
Speaker 1: you know that's what I had told Nicoled all the time.
Speaker 3: We'll chat about it for sure.
Speaker 1: Well, let's do this. Our story starts with a man
Speaker 1: named Bruce Andrew Roberts. Now. Bruce was born in September
Speaker 1: of nineteen fifty six to Athel and Joyce Roberts in
Speaker 1: a small town called This is a hard one to say.
Speaker 1: Bear with me, Kuna bar a bar in. I think
Speaker 1: I said that right.
Speaker 3: That actually sounded pretty legit.
Speaker 1: Kuna bar Ra Barren. Yeah that's all right, Wow, good work.
Speaker 1: It's in Australia, Okay, Yeah, so Kunabar Barren in Australia.
Speaker 1: When I was researching us and I was reading it
Speaker 1: for the first time, it was like, because Australia was
Speaker 1: thinking like the beach boys kind of thing, right, and
Speaker 1: I was like, Kunabar bar b bar Bar. So that's
Speaker 1: kind of where my mind was going. Every time I
Speaker 1: was reading that, I'm like, it's not Barbara and it's
Speaker 1: Kunabara Barn.
Speaker 3: So there we go. Every time you're come across that name,
Speaker 3: you're like in full song.
Speaker 1: So yeah, born in small town in nineteen fifty six,
Speaker 1: in Kunabara Barn in Australia.
Speaker 3: Now you're just gonna like love saying that.
Speaker 1: That is a fun word to say. Yeah. So Bruce
Speaker 1: was a happy little boy who had curly hair, and
Speaker 1: like many little boys, Bruce developed a passion for the
Speaker 1: the cool things they saw in the grown up world. Okay,
Speaker 1: in Bruce's case, it was motorbikes and guns.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, they're not cheap, cheap.
Speaker 1: Things, definitely not. However, Bruce was lucky enough to have
Speaker 1: a fairly wealthy family with money on their side. Okay,
Speaker 1: so cheap things was not necessarily not that they were
Speaker 1: frivolous with their money by any means, but it was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, they had the money to spend, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Yep, And this money gave Bruce
Speaker 1: a rather nice childhood. For example, I mean, his parents
Speaker 1: didn't buy buying motorbikes and guns all the time, but
Speaker 1: they would regularly go on holidays. So Bruce would go
Speaker 1: with his dad to central western New South Wales, for example,
Speaker 1: quite often.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's pretty lucky, it is.
Speaker 1: And I know, like I didn't go on a bunch
Speaker 1: of extravagant holidays when I was young, and I was
Speaker 1: always like to be fair, like, I didn't have a
Speaker 1: terrible childhood. I had a pretty good childhood. I got
Speaker 1: to go on some trips and stuff. It was just
Speaker 1: I was always jealous when people were going to like
Speaker 1: Disneyland and stuff, and I never got to go to Disneyland.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, well we went to Disney World the first
Speaker 3: time together, both of us, right couple years ago. Because
Speaker 3: up here, people's families ideas, I feel like in are
Speaker 3: to go camping or fishing or whatever. Right, Yeah, so
Speaker 3: that was how we kind of vacate both of our
Speaker 3: families as we were kids.
Speaker 1: And other people in other situations, like the big city,
Speaker 1: they go out camping on their big holidays too, right,
Speaker 1: and it's a big to do when they get to
Speaker 1: do it, But it's for us. It's like, oh, we
Speaker 1: just drove half an hour to a lake, and yeah,
Speaker 1: why am I not sitting at home playing my Nintendo instead?
Speaker 1: But it's just the lifestyle, Like it's that was kind
Speaker 1: of our holidays too around here, Like yeah, rivers lakes, fishing, camping,
Speaker 1: the whole thing.
Speaker 3: I feel like that created pretty good childhood memories though,
Speaker 3: if I'm being honest.
Speaker 1: It did. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just as a kid, I was like, I want to
Speaker 1: go to Disneyland and stuff.
Speaker 3: I want to go see Mickey.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so Bruce's life was more so on that
Speaker 1: end of getting to travel like that all the time.
Speaker 1: So now that wealth your lifestyle didn't mean that he
Speaker 1: was extraordinarily spoilt, though he was still expected to do
Speaker 1: well in school, for example, and he eventually graduated from
Speaker 1: the Kunibar Barren High School in nineteen seventy two. I
Speaker 1: love that that town name Kunabara Barn. Try and say it.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, what is it? Kunabara Barron, Kuna Barn Barron. Oh,
Speaker 3: I think I already.
Speaker 1: I think he had won too many ends in there.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's hard, like that would be a hard one.
Speaker 3: I would probably not choose this case because I really
Speaker 3: it just.
Speaker 1: Because of that city. But anyways, we digress. Bruce His expectations, however,
Speaker 1: didn't end up carrying through much of his life after
Speaker 1: high school. In fact, he would just continue to kind
Speaker 1: of live at home afterwards and not really too much
Speaker 1: too good to leave pretty much by the sum of it,
Speaker 1: it seems like, so you know, kind of just like
Speaker 1: it's too cushy at home, why would I leave exactly?
Speaker 1: And it seems like his parents just kind of fed
Speaker 1: into it as well, so that didn't make it much better. Okay, Now,
Speaker 1: there aren't a lot of details regarding Bruce's life during
Speaker 1: this time, and that's presumably because well, he didn't exactly
Speaker 1: do a whole lot. He just kind of simply lived
Speaker 1: at home and was supported by his family's wealth. However,
Speaker 1: it is reported that he would develop a bad relationship
Speaker 1: with his half sister Denise, and he also began developing
Speaker 1: mental health issues, and some extended family would actually describe
Speaker 1: him as quote being a bit strange, a loner, and
Speaker 1: socially awkward.
Speaker 3: Well that's really too bad, it is, because the way
Speaker 3: you kind of described him as a child, it didn't
Speaker 3: seem necessarily like he was odd or how his family
Speaker 3: described him.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, as far as I can tell, he was
Speaker 1: just your average happy little boy. Yeah, until yeah, a
Speaker 1: little bit later on. So yeah, what sparked that initially?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe he was just kind of always
Speaker 1: like that and it started showing more as he grew,
Speaker 1: or if there was a certain event. I did read
Speaker 1: some articles saying that it was whatever the situation was,
Speaker 1: but the bad relationship they built between his half sister
Speaker 1: and himself, some articles I read said that that sparked
Speaker 1: these sort of behaviors and mental health issues. So I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's true or not.
Speaker 3: But and was she upset with him because he was
Speaker 3: living at home and such?
Speaker 1: I couldn't find any information on that. It was just
Speaker 1: articles saying that they had a bad relationship, and that's
Speaker 1: pretty much all.
Speaker 3: You cans that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So one way or another, they had a bad relationship.
Speaker 1: And yeah. Now, eventually, though later in life, Bruce's parents
Speaker 1: would get separated and Bruce would move in with his
Speaker 1: mother and his half sister into Greenwich in Sydney, and
Speaker 1: there they moved into a house and together they lived
Speaker 1: for years to come. Then one day, as it must
Speaker 1: happen to us all, Bruce's mother, Joyce, unfortunately passed away
Speaker 1: in March of nineteen eighty nine, when Bruce was thirty
Speaker 1: three years old.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's still too young to lose your mama.
Speaker 1: It definitely is. I mean it's it wouldn't be easy,
Speaker 1: that's for sure.
Speaker 3: No, and especially too because it seems like he relied
Speaker 3: on her, maybe more so than a thirty three year
Speaker 3: old would.
Speaker 1: That's for sure. And that's a really good point. Actually
Speaker 1: he did rely on her for well a lot. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: up until his point, Bruce never really seemed to be independent.
Speaker 1: So you kind of hit the nail on the head there.
Speaker 1: He had his parents who provide for him all through
Speaker 1: his life and actually even after their separation and even
Speaker 1: his mother's passing, because in her will she left Bruce
Speaker 1: with one million dollars worth in shares.
Speaker 3: That is a chunk of change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish someone would just give me money. I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand it's a will. It's not just like he
Speaker 1: was just given money.
Speaker 3: It's in that situation you don't want that money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally get that. I still want a million
Speaker 1: dollars though. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3: I could do a lot with a million bucks.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely. And Bruce he would cash out those shares
Speaker 1: and he used the money to purchase the house that
Speaker 1: they were living in, so he now owned it.
Speaker 3: I do like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is nice. So for the next twenty eight years,
Speaker 1: Bruce would reside in this house alone. He would continue
Speaker 1: to not work and live off Social Security benefits and
Speaker 1: the money that was left for him. During this time,
Speaker 1: Bruce would have very little contact with his father and
Speaker 1: his half sister and the rest of his family. He
Speaker 1: stuck to himself, and he became somewhat of a recluse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, staking to my hermit kind of Ah.
Speaker 1: Pretty much, except just not out in the middle of
Speaker 1: a cabin in the bush.
Speaker 3: He still lived in a neighborhood of sorts.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and around his property. This is where it starts
Speaker 1: to see a little bit odd his behavior, because he's
Speaker 1: not just sitting at home by himself. Now, he had
Speaker 1: actually set up barbed wire around the fence of his
Speaker 1: house to keep out intruders. Whoa, and he even installed
Speaker 1: cans around his yard as crude alarm systems.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, he's just in there, like almost as
Speaker 3: terrified of the outside world pretty much.
Speaker 1: It seemed like that, oh sitting there waiting to see
Speaker 1: if he could hear these like cans rattling away. So
Speaker 1: in that way, he knew if there was like someone
Speaker 1: accessing his property.
Speaker 3: Yikes. That makes me feel terrible for him.
Speaker 1: Right, And actually we saw that in The Walking Dead
Speaker 1: in one of the earlier seasons.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they set up a little tent and then like
Speaker 1: strings with cans on them, so I knew if a
Speaker 1: walker was coming in. And yeah, that's pretty much exactly
Speaker 1: what he was doing.
Speaker 3: Jeez. Yeah, I mean the neighbors probably hated that too.
Speaker 3: Probably it was quite nice, I'm assuming.
Speaker 1: And not only this though, but he had actually nailed
Speaker 1: the windows of his house shut. Yeah, and this is
Speaker 1: a little bit of information that I told you prior
Speaker 1: to he had developed a rather serious hoarding problem.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, two things here. Nailing the windows, that's not
Speaker 3: a terrible idea. That's safety.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're not wrong. You're not wrong.
Speaker 3: Now, I'm like, my brain's going, I'm like, should we
Speaker 3: do that?
Speaker 1: You can also just lock windows.
Speaker 3: That's true, that's true. But maybe he didn't have windows
Speaker 3: that locked. He should have spent his million dollars to
Speaker 3: get windows l law. There you go anyway. Yes, So
Speaker 3: the hoarding thing is fascinating to me because they are
Speaker 3: used to I don't there still could be, but I
Speaker 3: used to be really into watching those shows, the hoarding shows,
Speaker 3: and the families and stuff, and how they would kind
Speaker 3: of go in and help them, because it's like, it's
Speaker 3: actually quite a it's a disorder, right, Oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an actual disorder.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually, I have that a little description of it here
Speaker 1: in my write up, if I may so, I say,
Speaker 1: hoarding is an actual disorder in which a person has
Speaker 1: difficulty discarding or parting with possessions because of the perceived
Speaker 1: need to save them, often pertaining to potential value or
Speaker 1: use for them.
Speaker 3: They physically have a hard time getting rid of anything.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I almost can legitimately understand that feeling a little bit.
Speaker 3: I feel like I come from a line of hoarders
Speaker 3: a little bit, not like very low key, very low
Speaker 3: key hoarders. But I have a terrible time getting rid
Speaker 3: of things. But I kind of broke that chain. I
Speaker 3: feel like with tiny homelans, not so much more than
Speaker 3: I could have.
Speaker 1: You still have like three boxes of beanie babies from when.
Speaker 3: You're that's the only thing you have. Shitten are in
Speaker 3: there too that you could get rid of too. Those
Speaker 3: are supposed to be my life saving.
Speaker 1: So the beanie babies.
Speaker 3: Like I collected those and one day they were going
Speaker 3: to pay pay for my whole life.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think those would even be able to
Speaker 1: pay for McDonald's Happy Meal at this point.
Speaker 3: I could probably get that.
Speaker 1: It'd be hard pressed.
Speaker 3: That's my only thing now, Okayanie told the world things
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 1: Sorry I outed you my bad.
Speaker 3: I have a photo of myself laying on the bed
Speaker 3: just covered in beanie babies.
Speaker 1: You've told me about this photo, but I've yet to
Speaker 1: see it. You got to dig up probably a good thing, probably. Anyways,
Speaker 1: back to Bruce, His house and his yard was filled
Speaker 1: up with debris and had filled up over the years.
Speaker 1: His property was not being taken care of. There was
Speaker 1: overgrown vegetation through the yard, along with the debris and
Speaker 1: and trash scattered all around that reached up heights towards
Speaker 1: his windows.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, and that's when the city starts having
Speaker 3: to get involved too.
Speaker 1: Never regarding his house and living conditions, one of Bruce's neighbors, Gail,
Speaker 1: said this, the home would have been fairly bad inside.
Speaker 1: He had mental issues and was a bit of a recluse.
Speaker 1: Everything was locked up. You couldn't see inside the windows.
Speaker 1: We would just hear him or see him outside, always
Speaker 1: in a big brown coat, regardless of the weather. No
Speaker 1: one's been near the home.
Speaker 3: My gosh. I wonder if he ever went out, like
Speaker 3: some intrigued, how did he get his groceries and stuff.
Speaker 1: Well he did do that, and we'll touch on that
Speaker 1: briefly a little bit later. So also in his neighborhood,
Speaker 1: his house was known as quote the creepy house on
Speaker 1: the corner.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Yeah, that's said.
Speaker 1: So it was not a pretty sight. His property was
Speaker 1: definitely well, for lack of better words, just straight up
Speaker 1: not taken care of. It was in need of some Yeah,
Speaker 1: some TLC would have gone long ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, actually I shouldn't even say that, because it's not
Speaker 1: like he didn't love his property or anything. That's sure
Speaker 1: he did.
Speaker 3: Okay, No, that was poor wordy. It was in need
Speaker 3: of I don't know, some cleaning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in need of care. Yeah, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: So entirely alone on his property, Bruce would only have
Speaker 1: one interaction with any sort of friends or family when
Speaker 1: he sent out Christmas cards to his relatives during the holidays.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I really like that.
Speaker 1: And that's basically how Bruce lived, whether he chose it
Speaker 1: or was unable to live live any other way due
Speaker 1: to his mental illnesses, but regardless, this was his life.
Speaker 3: I like that he still send out Christmas cards. I
Speaker 3: like him.
Speaker 1: You do you like Bruce?
Speaker 3: I do like Bruce.
Speaker 1: Well, this is how we lived up until one day
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. It was midwinter. Now remind you this
Speaker 1: is Australia, so the other side of the world, our
Speaker 1: summer is their winter, right right. I just wanted because
Speaker 1: that threw me off for a second, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah when I read this. So it was midwinter
Speaker 1: at twelve forty five pm on Friday July twenty first,
Speaker 1: when emergency services knocked on Bruce's door for a wellness check.
Speaker 1: He hadn't been seen for several weeks.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: Neighbors had began calling in that they hadn't seen him
Speaker 1: for weeks, and he was usually dressed up in his
Speaker 1: signature brown coat as he would leave for his daily
Speaker 1: walk to the grocery store or pharmacy. Right, but recently
Speaker 1: he hasn't left his home, which was fairly odd.
Speaker 3: That's kind of nice that his neighbors are seemed to
Speaker 3: be keeping an eye on him.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think it's kind of like it's just
Speaker 1: kind of a regular thing. You know, they see him
Speaker 1: same time, same day, all the time, that going out
Speaker 1: doing his thing. I think he was kind of a
Speaker 1: person of habits sort.
Speaker 3: Of he had a routine very much.
Speaker 1: So, especially if you're not working, you're not outside with friends,
Speaker 1: or you're not interacting with people. I think root would
Speaker 1: be fairly big for an individual like.
Speaker 3: That, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And honestly, I could probably learn a lot from that,
Speaker 1: because I definitely could use some routine in my life sometimes.
Speaker 3: I know, I sometimes feel like essessually with me just
Speaker 3: being kind of my own boss, like like I need
Speaker 3: to get my shia together.
Speaker 1: Routines are good, they are so authorities knocked on the door,
Speaker 1: but they received no response, so they knocked again, and
Speaker 1: again they were met with silence. So, with no other
Speaker 1: choice and concerns for his safety, they forced their way
Speaker 1: into Bruce's home. They had to break through two locks
Speaker 1: that had been secured from the inside of the door
Speaker 1: before they made their way through the front of the house.
Speaker 1: They made their way through via a pathway that led
Speaker 1: amongst the piled garbage that was up to waist high,
Speaker 1: where it led to Bruce. Now Bruce had passed away.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: They had found his lower half of his body lying
Speaker 1: in a hall way and his upper half partially in
Speaker 1: a room, slumped over a radiant bar heater which was
Speaker 1: left turned on.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah, I don't really know what that means,
Speaker 3: but it can't be a good thing.
Speaker 1: Well, his body had become separated into and it's kind
Speaker 1: of unclear exactly how that occurred, but presumably it would
Speaker 1: have been from decomposition and the radiator, for lack of
Speaker 1: better terms, cooking through his body over time.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's exactly what I thought, But I, like I
Speaker 3: really wasn't going to go there with my mind. But yeah,
Speaker 3: we just went there. Yeah that's something.
Speaker 1: It's a visual.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a really really visual and I just
Speaker 3: had the worst visual. Oh okay, we need to just
Speaker 3: move on here, I.
Speaker 1: Gia, we're not quite ready to move on just yet.
Speaker 1: His body was burnt and obviously in an advanced state
Speaker 1: of decomposition with quote extreme charring. Oh my gosh, on
Speaker 1: his right hand, right shoulder, the right side of his face, neck,
Speaker 1: and chest.
Speaker 3: I have to share with you where my mind went
Speaker 3: really quickly. Okay, go ahead, because you know in the oh,
Speaker 3: it's so terrible and like a lot of houses, the
Speaker 3: front yard has like those electrical box things, yeah, that
Speaker 3: you're like tell kids not to go near them or whatever.
Speaker 3: But then in school, they would do demonstrations sometimes and
Speaker 3: they put like a hot dog on them so that
Speaker 3: you can smell what it would smell like with like
Speaker 3: the burning flesh.
Speaker 1: What kind of fucking school did you go to?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I remember having to go to
Speaker 3: this demonstration where they like put a hot dog on
Speaker 3: there so that you could see smell how nasty it
Speaker 3: would smell if you like burn yourself. There is that's
Speaker 3: a cooked hot dog Oh it's it did not smell
Speaker 3: like a cooked hot dog. I would probably recognize that smell,
Speaker 3: and I'm envisioning this house to smell like that.
Speaker 1: You went to some fucked up kind of school. Wow.
Speaker 3: Well, back, there's a few things that I feel like
Speaker 3: are questionable that we had to go through, and it's
Speaker 3: like they just tried to scare the shit out of you,
Speaker 3: I think, instead of like teaching you.
Speaker 1: I never went to a cooked hot dog demonstration. I
Speaker 1: just called that a barbecue. That's the only cooked hot
Speaker 1: dog demonstration I ever went to.
Speaker 3: Oh man, someone else has to have had this demonstration.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Okay, you shoot us a message if you had. I'm
Speaker 1: curious now, Okay, anyways, back to the horrific details of
Speaker 1: his condition, I guess Wow, that's that's an interlude and
Speaker 1: a half. Thanks. Anyways, Bruce had his ribs charred as well,
Speaker 1: and the tissue covering his ribs was burnt away, leaving
Speaker 1: many of his internals, including his heart and lungs, to
Speaker 1: be blackened in charred.
Speaker 3: Wow. I'm so intrigued how he ended up like that though? Yeah,
Speaker 3: Like was he cold and just trying to warm up
Speaker 3: or something, but then like died.
Speaker 1: Well, his death was not considered to be suspicious, and
Speaker 1: his remains made it difficult to identify the cause of death.
Speaker 1: But it is noted that he had complaints to his
Speaker 1: doctor of chest pains a couple weeks earlier and refused treatment,
Speaker 1: So I couldn't find any assumptions on how he ended
Speaker 1: up in said position. But my assumption is probably something
Speaker 1: like a heart attack and it would have fallen onto
Speaker 1: the heater. Oh, okay, that's my guess.
Speaker 3: H that's crazy. You don't hear about I don't know
Speaker 3: that stuff like that much. Hey, No, not dying that.
Speaker 1: Way, but it happens all the time, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and probably there's a reason why we're
Speaker 3: chatting about him, and other cases don't have reasons why
Speaker 3: it would come up in a case, right, And you
Speaker 3: hear this these details.
Speaker 1: Exactly, So we're kind of getting into why we're chatting
Speaker 1: about this here pretty quick, Okay. At six point thirty
Speaker 1: pm that day, his body was removed from the house,
Speaker 1: and the house sat untouched for the rest of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: When Christmas rolled around, his family never got their annual
Speaker 1: Christmas cards and looked into why that was. Why hadn't
Speaker 1: they received it, what's going on with Bruce? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they would receive the news that Bruce had passed away.
Speaker 1: And they also learned that Bruce had donated his full estate,
Speaker 1: including house and remaining six hundred thousand dollars that was
Speaker 1: left in his bank account to local charities.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I love that. So he like planned
Speaker 3: that ahead. That's really nice.
Speaker 1: Exactly Now, it wasn't until May twenty eighteen that the
Speaker 1: cleanup of his property began. Police were called in to
Speaker 1: seize a rifle and ammunition found in the bedroom that
Speaker 1: was discovered by professional cleaners, and five days after that
Speaker 1: they found more. They called police in and again more
Speaker 1: were seized. And just to show, I mean, they've already
Speaker 1: been there cleaning for five days. His house was in
Speaker 1: such disarray. It took weeks to clean.
Speaker 3: And he had an interest though since a kid with
Speaker 3: the guns, right he did.
Speaker 1: It was guns and motorcycles, And apparently there was a
Speaker 1: couple of motorcycles found in the backyard, though he never
Speaker 1: owed any, and ample amounts of motorcycle magazines as well. Okay, Now,
Speaker 1: the house was in such disarray it took weeks, like
Speaker 1: I said, And as they were cleaning, they would be
Speaker 1: discovering things under piles of rubbish as they cleaned, such as,
Speaker 1: you know, the guns and ammunition, that sort of stuff,
Speaker 1: and no one would certainly have been able to predicted
Speaker 1: what sort of stuff they were going to find, especially
Speaker 1: the one thing they did find next. It was on
Speaker 1: May twenty ninth in twenty eighteen, when cleaners were removing
Speaker 1: piles of garbage from a bedroom in the house. They
Speaker 1: eventually made their way down and lifted up a rug
Speaker 1: that had been draped over the top of some more debris.
Speaker 1: When they lifted the rug and made the horrifying discovery
Speaker 1: of a corpse staring back at them.
Speaker 3: What, Yeah, seriously, a.
Speaker 1: Person's body in under a rug, under a rug, under
Speaker 1: a pile of rubbish.
Speaker 3: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so that's a thing.
Speaker 3: Man. It must have smelled so terrible in there.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure it did. Police were, of course immediately
Speaker 1: called to restate the scene. The body was by this
Speaker 1: time completely mummified, was still fully clothed and laid under
Speaker 1: piles and piles of garbage in a seated position with
Speaker 1: their back against a couch slumped over to the left. Wow,
Speaker 1: and investigators found approximately seventy air fresheners scattered throughout the
Speaker 1: room and surrounding the body.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, yeah, I'm sure that would do the trick, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're you're talking about a horrendous smell. I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure even Bruce was bothered by it to some degree.
Speaker 3: Seventy five air.
Speaker 1: Freshman, approximately seventy Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I shouldn't laugh at that. That's terrible.
Speaker 3: That's terrible. Oh my gosh, that's terrible.
Speaker 1: Everything about that is terrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 1: It's terrible from the fact that someone was potential while
Speaker 1: someone was killed, and it's terrible in the fact that
Speaker 1: Bruce was living in conditions like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then he just for that long or just
Speaker 3: didn't think to do anything about this. Okay, Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: quite a way to hide a body, like.
Speaker 1: Wow, Well, he didn't really hide the body, to be fair,
Speaker 1: He just kind of stowed it away and grew stuff
Speaker 1: on top of it. So. As police continued their investigation,
Speaker 1: they managed to find shotgun pellets embedded in the walls
Speaker 1: and pellets in the floors. They were also dried blood
Speaker 1: that had pooled near the body. Gosh, DNA samples were
Speaker 1: taken of the individual to try and identify who the
Speaker 1: individual was, and lucky enough, there were enough factors to
Speaker 1: get a positive idea on the person. Okay, and pretty
Speaker 1: much thanks to the condition of the mummified body being
Speaker 1: so pristine, they were able to identify a combination of
Speaker 1: DNA fingerprints and tattoos.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: And they were able to identify Shane John Snellman.
Speaker 3: But he didn't do anything per se to the body,
Speaker 3: right to keep it, Nope, he just tucked it away
Speaker 3: and put air freshers around it.
Speaker 1: Pretty much.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Shane had a lengthy criminal record and had
Speaker 1: last been seen in October of two thousand and two.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Shane was born in November of nineteen sixty three to
Speaker 1: Herbert and Pamela Snellman and had a younger sister, Belinda.
Speaker 1: His parents separated when he was young, and, along with
Speaker 1: his sister, they were eventually placed in a Catholic covenant home. Now,
Speaker 1: after that sort of life, he began to kind of
Speaker 1: take a turn for the worse. By the age of fifteen,
Speaker 1: he was charged with the murder of a homeless man,
Speaker 1: but was eventually acquitted. From here on, he became very
Speaker 1: very well known to police as he committed many crimes
Speaker 1: and even served time for theft and drug related defenses,
Speaker 1: serving jail time for property theft. Like the list kind
Speaker 1: of goes on in and out of jail, right okay.
Speaker 1: One such drug related defense had him released on June
Speaker 1: twenty seventh in two thousand and two, after a year
Speaker 1: in jail. Now, bank records show that after this release,
Speaker 1: he would withdraw his supported bank deposits the same day
Speaker 1: that they were deposited into his account. However, they came
Speaker 1: to a stop when they were deposited on October twenty third,
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, when the money just simply sat
Speaker 1: in his account untouched.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, the thirty nine year old was reported missing. No
Speaker 1: one had seen him since until, of course, his mummified
Speaker 1: remains were found in the back corner of Bruce's home
Speaker 1: under a pile of garbage.
Speaker 3: My gosh, fifteen years later. Yep, that's insane.
Speaker 1: That's that's a significant time to be sitting in the
Speaker 1: corner of someone's house.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like at that point you think that you're just
Speaker 3: probably not going to find him, right, so that the family,
Speaker 3: I'm sure was shocked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, The one thing that really I find intriguing is
Speaker 1: the thought process that Bruce would have had. I'm sure
Speaker 1: for the coming days weeks after whatever had occurred, he
Speaker 1: would be thinking about what he needs to do or
Speaker 1: how he's going to do it to dispose of or
Speaker 1: clear the body. Yeah, but fifteen years later, he still
Speaker 1: knows the body's there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's he probably doesn't think about it on
Speaker 3: a daily basis so anymore.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that I'm really interested in is
Speaker 1: he's probably not thinking about it. No, but once in
Speaker 1: a while he'll remember it's there. I guarantee you he will.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they had I feel like people in those
Speaker 3: kind of situations hoarders. I guess they do know where
Speaker 3: literally almost everything is in there and how to find it.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's very intriguing.
Speaker 1: Well, that's like, there's that meme out there, and I've
Speaker 1: done this with some things to a certain degree as well.
Speaker 1: There's a meme out there of like the girlfriend asking
Speaker 1: the boyfriend, Hey, do you have a paper clip, and
Speaker 1: the boyfriend's like, yeah, computer room, Go to my filing cabinet.
Speaker 1: It's on the bottom right hand corner on the floor
Speaker 1: by the filing cabinet. Yeah, it's like you know where
Speaker 1: this exact little thing is. Yeah, And I'm sure Bruce
Speaker 1: knew all about his house the same way too, totally.
Speaker 1: But I'm just so intrigued on the thought process. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm never going to get an answer, Don't get me
Speaker 1: wrong there, I know that, But I'm so intrigued in
Speaker 1: the thought process with Bruce and how he thought about
Speaker 1: the remains being in his house.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I almost think after some time and thought
Speaker 3: that he would maybe can have considered going and barring
Speaker 3: them in the backyard or something, right. Yeah, the fact
Speaker 3: that he actually just left them in that room is
Speaker 3: and how I'm sure would have been causing some quite
Speaker 3: the smell in his house. It's oh yeah, yeah. Well.
Speaker 1: The autopsy of Shane's body revealed that his left foot
Speaker 1: had been separated from his ankle joint, and that two
Speaker 1: areas around his right ear and top of the right
Speaker 1: skull showed heat exposure. He had a gun wound to
Speaker 1: his left super callavercal. I think is how you pronounce that,
Speaker 1: which was it's kind of indent at the top of
Speaker 1: the collarbone in your neck, like clap your collarbone.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I hate collar bones.
Speaker 1: And there were a total of But you hate collarbones,
Speaker 1: I do. That was a very odd comment.
Speaker 3: There's a few like parts of the body that it's like, Oh,
Speaker 3: they just give you the heavy GB's collarbones, give you
Speaker 3: the heapy g's knee caps.
Speaker 1: I knew you didn't like knee caps and eyeballs, but
Speaker 1: collarbones yeah, Oh okay.
Speaker 3: I mean they're necessary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you kind of need those things anyways. So there
Speaker 1: were a total of fifteen metal fragments found in his
Speaker 1: chest and stomach. Whoa, and the toxicology report yielded traces
Speaker 1: of methanmphetamine, bureau fenorine, and amphetamines.
Speaker 3: Okay, so like when he was at Bruce's house, like
Speaker 3: he was intoxicated.
Speaker 1: I believe. So, yes, is it.
Speaker 3: Still called intoxicated if it's on drugs, Yeah, that's intoxic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just what you're intoxicated with.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, there's.
Speaker 1: No difference in saying you're under the influence, you're.
Speaker 3: Under the influence.
Speaker 2: YEA.
Speaker 3: Generally with drugs, I say under the influence. But I
Speaker 3: got messed up there, there you go.
Speaker 1: So Deputy State Corner Derreck Lee had concluded that Shane's
Speaker 1: body ended up in Bruce's home by quote unauthorized entry
Speaker 1: oh okay, basically meaning Shane broke in for one reason
Speaker 1: or another, most likely to steal. They presume that he sorry.
Speaker 1: They presume I said that weird. They presume he died
Speaker 1: some time between October eighteenth and October twenty fourth in
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, while gaining entry to the property,
Speaker 1: and during so he was caught by Bruce. Bruce then
Speaker 1: pointed a shotgun to Shane in the confrontation and pulled
Speaker 1: the trigger, hitting him in the chest and killing him.
Speaker 1: Bruce then covered Shane's body with debris and refuse in
Speaker 1: this house and let him rot, which is where, of course,
Speaker 1: the air freshners came in. However, police were not able
Speaker 1: to find any physical evidence of forced entry, and when
Speaker 1: it came to the shotgun that caused the fatal injury,
Speaker 1: police were unable to get a positive match on that either. Now, though,
Speaker 1: they did find three shotguns, six bolt action rifles, three
Speaker 1: self loading rifles, an air rifle, shotgun, cartridges, rifle rounds,
Speaker 1: all of which being illegal.
Speaker 3: Okay, I was just gonna be like, are those illegal?
Speaker 1: Yeah, all of which were illegal. There was apparently a
Speaker 1: huge amount of ammunition in that house. Okay, but yeah,
Speaker 1: none of which was legal, and they were not able
Speaker 1: to get a positive match on any of the firearms
Speaker 1: in that house to match the crime scene.
Speaker 3: Oh so maybe he at least discarded the weapon.
Speaker 1: Potentially, right. Yeah. They also found spent shells in three
Speaker 1: of the bedrooms, all three of the bedrooms, the dining room,
Speaker 1: and the garage of the house. Now here's where it
Speaker 1: gets really interesting and also a little bit disappointing, because
Speaker 1: we're reaching the end of this and there's kind of
Speaker 1: a cliffhanger on this.
Speaker 3: Oh no, of course there is.
Speaker 1: Shane's younger sister, Belinda, disagreed with Corner's theory that he
Speaker 1: broke into the residence. In a Corner's court hearing, she shouted,
Speaker 1: he never gained forced entry, He never broke into that home.
Speaker 1: He already knew.
Speaker 3: Him, He already knew him. Yes, okay, I was not
Speaker 3: expecting this.
Speaker 1: Neither was I And unfortunately that are you kidding me?
Speaker 3: That's it. There's no more information on that statement.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, whether her claims are true or false, we may
Speaker 1: never know what really happened inside Bruce's home.
Speaker 3: Shit, Ben, you kidding me?
Speaker 1: There's no way no evidence in any way, shape or
Speaker 1: form proving that he did or did not know him.
Speaker 1: He already knew him, and with both a victim and
Speaker 1: assailant decease, there may never be any way of gaining
Speaker 1: any sort of understand what really occurred.
Speaker 3: Huh yeah, wow, okay, that one's self.
Speaker 1: All we know is that the inquest described the two
Speaker 1: deceased men as quote strangers in life who suffered a
Speaker 1: fatal chance encounter.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, if they did know each other, the
Speaker 3: one guy could know that his name is Shane, right, Sorry,
Speaker 3: my apologies, Tokay, Shane could know that Bruce was well
Speaker 3: off and had money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, very much so, so he could have potentially
Speaker 1: just getting out of prison. He could have potentially been
Speaker 1: going there for knowing that. I mean, let's let's start
Speaker 1: with the breaking in argument. He could be going there
Speaker 1: knowing that this individual has stuff. I mean, he's he's hoarding,
Speaker 1: he's got lots of stuff, he's got a nice place,
Speaker 1: Rumors are that he's wealthy.
Speaker 3: He's going there to his family's well feel money.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Or Two, he does know him personally and he didn't
Speaker 1: break in, and he's just going there just to get
Speaker 1: money and something went south.
Speaker 3: They got in some sort of an argument or something.
Speaker 1: Or maybe he wasn't even there for money, maybe he
Speaker 1: was just there visiting, or and because he was under
Speaker 1: the influence of something, maybe things didn't go right. Who knows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or maybe it was a mistaken action. Maybe Bruce didn't
Speaker 1: do it at all, Maybe there was another person there.
Speaker 3: Oh, because Yeah, see, as you were kind of painting
Speaker 3: this picture of Bruce, it's almost shocking to me that
Speaker 3: he would kill someone. I agree, Like, I just I
Speaker 3: almost have trouble believing that. I agree, But I mean,
Speaker 3: if he was scared enough and this person was, but like,
Speaker 3: I'm just surprised that he would actually go through with
Speaker 3: pulling the trigger, there at someone.
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying I don't believe Bruce did it.
Speaker 1: I do think Bruce did it. The whole seventy plus
Speaker 1: air fresheners tell me that Bruce knew about the body.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and that tells me. I mean, I understand
Speaker 1: that hoarders are very protective over there, their homes, their
Speaker 1: stuff and everything. They don't want people in there. But
Speaker 1: I think if Bruce didn't do it, he would have
Speaker 1: called authorities. Yeah, so he at least knew about it,
Speaker 1: which tells me he did it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, gosh, I would really like to have
Speaker 3: been a fly on the wall and known what was
Speaker 3: going on. Hey, yeah, huh wow? Is there photos and
Speaker 3: stuff of anything his house or anything?
Speaker 1: To be fair, the photos I saw were just kind
Speaker 1: of like victims and stuff, so just come some kind
Speaker 1: of like benign type photos. I didn't really dig into
Speaker 1: looking for photos, but I'm sure you could find them. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm intrigued to see what his house looks like.
Speaker 1: So that was the story of well, a mummified body
Speaker 1: that was found in home.
Speaker 3: Wow. Crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a little bit different than we normally do.
Speaker 3: That is different.
Speaker 1: It was when I was reading that. When I was
Speaker 1: I was quite intrigued. I was like, hmm, what is
Speaker 1: this one? Looked it up a little bit. I'm like,
Speaker 1: let's let's go with this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he took us on a ride, a different ride.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we got another another cool case coming down
Speaker 1: the pipe. You're doing the next one.
Speaker 3: I am doing the next one.
Speaker 1: Are you going to give any sort of hints?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: No, no hints, zero hints. We should maybe start doing
Speaker 1: hints at the end.
Speaker 3: Little maybe I actually have three though, that I have
Speaker 3: on my radar, So I'm not one hundred percent search
Speaker 3: in which one it's going to be. I'm like ninety
Speaker 3: percent certain, but not so I'm not going to go
Speaker 3: a hint. But okay, I will. I'll start doing hints.
Speaker 3: We'll get organized because.
Speaker 1: We used to do that, didn't we. I think we did.
Speaker 3: No, No, I don't feel like we've ever been that organized.
Speaker 1: I think we were a little more organized. Not at
Speaker 1: one point in time, once upon.
Speaker 3: A time, you know, yeah, anyways, back when.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, anyways, Nicole's gonna be doing the next episode.
Speaker 1: It's going to be good because you You've told me
Speaker 1: the list, and I know the ninety percent chance one
Speaker 1: that you're going to be doing, and it's one I
Speaker 1: actually almost did at one point. Yeah, but yeah. If
Speaker 1: you want to support us in any other way than
Speaker 1: tuning into next episode, all the links for our social
Speaker 1: or down below. We've got Instagram, Facebook, website, YouTube, you
Speaker 1: name it. We also have Patreon where you can support
Speaker 1: us there. If not, you can just stay here children
Speaker 1: the next episode that is one hundred percent cool us. Two.
Speaker 1: If you want to go, give us a a rating.
Speaker 1: If you want to go, give us a a review
Speaker 1: that will be awesome and totally free to do, and
Speaker 1: it helps support the show and.
Speaker 3: It gets it really helps. The five star reviews really
Speaker 3: help they do.
Speaker 1: And those people who are out there just spewing bullshit
Speaker 1: on our ratings, I mean, thank you for the rating.
Speaker 1: I guess that's all I'll say there.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, honestly, well well done. That was It
Speaker 3: was interesting. I really wish I could find some answers here,
Speaker 3: but we're not going to. But that was interesting.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, it is a cliffhanger. So anyways, until Nicole does
Speaker 1: her episode, we'll talk to you then and until.
Speaker 3: Then, stay Wicked.
Speaker 1: That long why I love it day Wicked