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Speaker 1: And I just turned around and I call ass out

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of there.

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Speaker 2: I was done.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't deal with them. The hypocrisy of the cult

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is one of the things that turned me.

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Speaker 1: Away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on,

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it turned and looked at us.

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Speaker 3: And one of the things I remember the most, where

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the eyes were glowing red. I see an orb of light.

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It is just circling these steps like it is waiting

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for me.

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Speaker 2: And he begins to tell them that he saw a UFO.

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Speaker 1: They're basically like, what are you talking about.

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Speaker 3: That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it,

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and that's where I saw.

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Speaker 1: The top of the muzzle, nose and the eyes. As

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soon as I made eye contact with this thing, I

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don't like death.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to ten Foil Tells. I'm your host Brandon

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Wright Night's episode. We're gonna be joined by my guest Wes.

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We're gonna talk about some of the weird things going

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on around in New Jersey, specifically the Jersey Devil and

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some of the other locations out there that West wants

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to talk about before we bring him on. Though you've

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ever had an experience and you'd like to be on

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an episode of ten foil Tals. There's a couple of

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things you can do. You can either send an email

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to tenfoil Tales podcast at gmail dot com, or you

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can go to tenfoiltales dot com and go to the

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contact section. Just make sure to reach out and get

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a message to me and we will get somebody schedule

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for a future episode. You'd like to help the podcast out,

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please share it around. Word of mouth is the best

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way of helping podcast out. You can also leave a

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five star rating and review wherever you listen to tenfoil

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Teals at and that helps me fight the algorithms. You

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can also become a member of the Patreon. You get

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early access to all the episodes and they're all at free.

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It's only one dollar ninety nine cents a month, so

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it's worth checking out. Find more information about that in

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the show notes. You can also follow me around all

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the social media Spacebook and Instagram that we are going

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to go ahead now and bring Wes on, So sit back,

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relax and enjoy the show. I'd like to take this

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time and welcome my guest tonight, Wes. Thanks for coming

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on here and talking to me.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: Would you like to let the audience know a little

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bit about yourself. Sure.

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Speaker 1: Been doing the Words and Coffee podcast for about.

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Speaker 3: A year now.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of a natural segue getting into interesting

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urban legends and history about New Jersey. I say segue

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because it was sort of research that I was doing

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for the books that I write. I do historical fiction

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largely centered around the nineteen twenties inter war period, pull

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out of gangster and industrial accidents and stuff that happened

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in that period, which is just really interesting to just

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completely geek out on. So and as I did that,

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I started, you know, finding the real life stories and

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weird sightings and hauntings and all this stuff that comes

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up over the years that people talk about. So just

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love getting into that whole thing supernatural aspect, the historical aspect,

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and yeah, just love talking about it.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of weird stuff that around historically, Like

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when you start to dig into like historical things, there's

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a lot of weird supernatural stories that are out there,

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and I don't know how true any of them can

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be are or like what the urban legends and everything else,

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but there's always folklore from something and you have to

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wonder what caused the folklore, like where'd the myths come from?

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Where these stories originated from? There had been something that

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started as even just here in America, but like everywhere

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you had fairy tales and everything. Like what inspired all

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of that is what I always kind of think about,

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because for me, it's like they had to have seen

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something in order to write stuff about it. I don't

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know that, sure, that's just what I think.

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Speaker 1: You're actually pretty on the mark there. So in the

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case of Jersey, you know, obviously our big namesake is

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the Jersey Devil. It's got our name in it, you know,

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that's the that's the big one for us. I think

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there's something like I look this up. At one point,

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there's like ten or fifteen states that have a you know,

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designated state CRYPTID. So New Jersey's in that short list,

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which is kind of cool. But in the case of

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the Jersey Devil, it actually seems to have an origin

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story in honey Lenape, you know, native tribe that lived

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in the New Jersey region, and so as the European

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settlers moved in, you know, they shared the same woods,

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they kind of encountered the same creatures, and a lot

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of what eventually evolved into the Jersey Devil legend that

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we have today bears a lot of resemblance to this

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forest spirit that the Lenny Lenape described, which is kind

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of cool. I don't mean to jump the gun here,

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but you know, the Jersey Devil is kind of this winged,

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bipedal deer looking thing, you know, kind of like a

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cross between a windigo and like a like a deer basically,

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and you know the Lenny Lenape kind of described a

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similar thing. So you just see where you know it,

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Like you said, it has an origin in going back,

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you know, hundreds if not thousands of years, depending on

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what people encountered in the woods at some point. I

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was at one time and I heard a mountain lion

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somewhere in the distance, and like, that's terrifying, you know.

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So now stuff like that you can see where people

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would like, all right, terrifying animal. Maybe that's something else.

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Speaker 3: How are you like, when you heard a mountain lion?

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What did it sound like? Was it like got more

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of a I've heard And I don't know, maybe I'm

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confusing this, but like mountain lions sound like someone's screaming.

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Is that right? Yes, Okay, that's that's weird to me

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in general, because if you think you hear the word lion,

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you see a lion, like an African lion roaring, but

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then you hear a mountain lion and everyone says, oh,

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it sounds like someone out in the woods screaming. Like

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that's weird. Makes you wonder if a lot of the

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times you hear things like this and people are actually

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think it's someone's out there screaming and it's really just.

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Speaker 1: An animal, especially with something like foxes, like it actually

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sounds like like kids yelling. It's the weirdest thing. Yeah,

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I've heard that too, like I myself have. I don't

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think I've actually heard it per se that way, but

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like I've heard that they claim that when foxes, and

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I think even like coyotes yipping or whatever, sometimes people

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confuse them for like little kids. Yeah, it's it's pretty eerie,

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and like you can definitely see where in the case

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of something like that, you get the legends of skin

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walkers and stuff. It's like, no, it sounded like a person,

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but it was an animal.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of Native American stories are all

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based off of their old it's strange, Like you mentioned

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skin of walk that's like a Navajo thing and wind

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it goes. I think we're more of the Northern Nations

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type stuff. But if you start to look into a

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lot of their old bores, there were similarities to certain aspects.

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Like I'm not saying they're the same thing at all,

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but there's still some similarities in between certain things, and

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I think a lot of them are spiritual. I think

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some of them are not. I don't know where the

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stories got intertwined, but for me, it seems to be

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like these stories are passed down and then they got

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altered as they got to different tribes and different things.

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But they all spoke different languages and they all had

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their own versions of stuff. So it is just weird

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to me how some of these things have passed through

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so it always goes back. Like I said, what inspired

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the story?

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Speaker 1: It's a good question. It's interesting that you bring up

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the aspect of different experiences kind of mixing together and

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getting retold, because I mean, so the Lenny Lenape legend

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didn't start out as a It was, like I said,

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the elongated deer thing. But how do you get from

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that to Leeds Devil and then later Jersey Devil and

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that's kind of where in this case the story kind

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of takes an interesting turn because it, like I think

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you had the original. I think in part it probably

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came from a you know, an animal or something, you know,

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fairly mundane. But then as people get involved in the

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story and it starts, it kind of takes on a

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life of its own. Now we got really creative before

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we had Netflix. You know, has had people sitting around

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the campfire and you know, shooting stuff back and forth,

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and you know, the interesting stories that come out of

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your particular village or tribe, and how that can kind

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of transform.

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Speaker 3: I think like just in my general area, we have

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a local tribe and I'm going to be talking to

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one of the people here soon from the tribe about

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some of the local legends we have around here based

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off of their stories and everything here. A lot of

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the stuff that I keep being told about our I'll

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say the overused phrase of high strangeness, but that goes

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on in my general area. A lot of people are

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related to the tribe that was here, and there are

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still some here. But I don't think that's all true.

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I think a lot of people have I don't want

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to sound like a douche, but we've steardized their stories,

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their traditions, We've turned them into more fantastical things, and

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then we use them as like this is their old stories.

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I was like, I don't want to talk to someone

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that don't really know anything. I'd rather go right to

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the source. So I've got stuff lined up where I

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want to talk with them, because I would rather know

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directly from them, like what their stories actually are, rather

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than hearing it secondhand, third hand or who the hell knows.

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Hommy hands has.

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Speaker 1: Been sure, Yeah, there's definitely, uh, there's definitely use the

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word bastardization, but a the watering down almost no, and

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other people get their say in the story. Like I

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was only able to find one source that mentioned the

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whole Native American aspect of the Jersey Devil, and then

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I don't know if that's author's sources were buried in

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a university library or something somewhere, but was only able

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to find the one reference to it, and then from

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there the European settlers. You know, this part of the

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country was heavily settled by the Quakers, who you were,

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kind of the hippies of their time. You know, they

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were very you know egalitarian, very open minded, which is

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you know, probably why they had a lot of story

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swapping and trading with the native tribes of the area.

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And you know how the legend got introduced in the

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first place, really, but they interpreted the whole thing through

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a Christian lens. So oh, this scary demonic entity stalking

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the woods, you know, it kind of sounds like a devil.

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All right, boom, we got the devil introduction to the story.

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You know, call it a basteardization, call it a hybridizing.

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But you know that's like the first step in modifying

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the existing legends to you know, kind of be adapted

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by this new culture.

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Speaker 3: Right, everything that you hear what the word devil in

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it is like, well, it's like that's not what they

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originally called it, like the devil's gorge or the devil's

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triangle or something they added in there to give it

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that mistikeness, to make it seem even more sinister because

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we're throwing that name in it. So like the Jersey Devil,

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they had to modernize it. I guess at the times

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for all of the stuff for the white settlers, which

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you mentioned when to go earlier, and I'm pretty sure

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the original depictions of a Wind to Go, they were

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actually just pale human looking figures spirit things. But the

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modernized version and everytimes was a wind to Go. You

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think of the big beast with the antlers and skull

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and everything else. I don't believe that's what the original

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Native America versions were. So again that's is that us

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turning it into a more fantastical thing over the years

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or as weird as this may be, but like sometime

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people will reporting seeing these things now, So is that

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something because we've put it out there in the thear

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that it's now manifested, people think this is what they're

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seeing because you've made like a pulp out of it.

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Who knows, same thing with people to see shadow man

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or a slender man. I've always thought that was weird

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because that was a creepypasta that someone made up, and

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now people report seeing that thing, all of them.

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Speaker 1: That never underestimate what people will convince themselves up in

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order to get a little bit of attention.

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Speaker 3: I won't say that what people see is not what

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they think they're seeing, but U I don't necessarily think

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that everything out there that people see is what they

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think it is. So I'm not saying that I've seen

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some weird stuff too, So I can't go on record

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and say I don't believe any of that stuff, but

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I try to remain ground it so I try and

245
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keep a skeptical mind. But I'm not gonna argue with

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someone they said they've seen something. I want to say, well,

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you must have saw something, because who am I to

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say you didn't. I wasn't there?

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Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, and I mean I'm not. I agree. I

250
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wouldn't go so far as to say that. At the

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end of the day, I think there is more to

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existence than what we think we understand, and I think

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that leaves a lot of room for explanations.

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Speaker 3: Is there anything with the Jersey Devil? Like what the

255
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origins and everything? Has there been anything close to what

256
00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:08,960
anyone's actually physically had proof of that you're aware of?

257
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There's it all just stories that were passed down.

258
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Speaker 1: So fast forwarding a little bit. Probably the most significant

259
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series of sightings was in nineteen oh nine, but a

260
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lot of people, you know, reported seeing it to varying degrees.

261
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You know, everything from a fluttering sound in the distance

262
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to hoof prints to you know, red eyes did this?

263
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One guy who claimed to you is actually attacked by it. Unfortunately,

264
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a lot of those. In the one case, the guy

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who said he was attacked by it happened to be

266
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leaving a saloon, said, you know, red lights came out

267
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of the dark and knocked him down. And it was

268
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moving as fast as an automobile. Mmm. Who knows could

269
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have been. I mean a lot of these sightings, you know. Okay,

270
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So the Jersey Devil's stomping grounds are supposed to be

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in this place called the pine barrens. So in New

272
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Jersey that's like our more rural southern region. A lot

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of pine trees, a lot of woods has a certain reputation.

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I say it has a reputation. It's kind of a

275
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signed of reputation by urban types who kind of, you know,

276
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looked down their nose at their rustic quote unquote inferiors.

277
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In fact, there's historical precedent that kind of fed into

278
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the Jersey legend or the Jersey Devil legend back in

279
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colonial times as well. But sticking with the nineteen oh

280
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nine sightings for now, what's fun about this one is

281
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the newspapers were printing it like as far away as Virginia.

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There was like a one week period in the middle

283
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of January just followed this big snowstorm and there are

284
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a few inches of snow on the ground, so there's

285
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prints and tracks all over the place that people are following.

286
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I kind of draw parallels to the nineteen thirty eight

287
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War of the World's broadcast, which I don't know how

288
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familiar you are with that, but basically Orson Wells narrated

289
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a radio broadcast of the novel War of the World,

290
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but like people would tune in halfway through it, and

291
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I think that there's actually an attack going on, and

292
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the whole mass hysteria thing.

293
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Speaker 3: Again.

294
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Speaker 1: You see, it's kind of a pattern emerging here. But yeah,

295
00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:20,480
in nineteen oh nine, a bunch of sightings people were

296
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in a trolley car and where was that one. I

297
00:19:24,839 --> 00:19:30,119
think that was outside of Glassborough. All South Jersey towns

298
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was kind of in this area. And then you had

299
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groups of guys going out into the woods doing vigilante hunts,

300
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and honestly, I think a lot of that was just

301
00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:44,000
an excuse for them to, you know, go in the

302
00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:45,759
woods with their friends, have a couple of beers and

303
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:53,680
shoot some trees. Seems plausible, but uh so The punchline

304
00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:56,599
with the nineteen oh nine sightings is that a week

305
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:06,039
later there was this dime museum in Philadelphia with this

306
00:20:06,079 --> 00:20:10,200
guy claimed to have caught the Jersey Devil. And so

307
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the thing about a dime museum is it's kind of

308
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,400
like an old timey tourist trap. You know, they'd have

309
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:24,359
stuff like, you know, strong Man exhibits, kind of sort

310
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of like a circus free show sort of vibe. And

311
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,960
so basically what this guy did was he took a kangaroo,

312
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:37,279
painted it with green stripes, glued bat wings to it,

313
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and would walk it out into this dimly lit room,

314
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give people like, you know, two seconds to see it,

315
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,440
and then he'd quickly i'sher it out of the room again.

316
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Speaker 3: And that was.

317
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:58,839
Speaker 1: The culmination of one of the most significant rash of

318
00:20:58,880 --> 00:20:59,839
sightings for the Jersey.

319
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Speaker 3: It's weird to think that people are that gullible back

320
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,039
in those days, which I say that in those days,

321
00:21:06,079 --> 00:21:08,839
but even today they still think there might be people

322
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who would fall into that category.

323
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Speaker 1: YouTube would like a word.

324
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Speaker 3: Right, I am off topic, but not really. Someone had

325
00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:27,440
posted something and I could clearly instantly tell it was

326
00:21:27,559 --> 00:21:32,319
AI generated and they were claiming that they were able

327
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,039
to tell from being a professional and some sort of

328
00:21:36,279 --> 00:21:38,079
feel that they were in or whatever that this was

329
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:40,680
one real photo. And I was like, I can totally

330
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,640
tell instantly that it's not a real photo, and I'm

331
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,480
not going to argue with someone on the internet and

332
00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:50,160
be in that'll echo chamber. But I'm like, it clearly

333
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,960
looks in the sense of things just don't seem correct.

334
00:21:55,279 --> 00:22:00,680
And AI has a typical thing about itself, like I

335
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,880
don't know why, but sometimes when it's drawing things or

336
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,400
making images, it usually has some sort of like a

337
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,079
walking stick or a cane or something too, which doesn't

338
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,319
make a lot of sense. But this thing was supposed

339
00:22:13,319 --> 00:22:14,880
to be like a giant, and I had a cane

340
00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:18,319
it was leaning on, Like I don't.

341
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 1: What was at least them appropriate. Was like a giant

342
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,480
oak tree that the giant was using as a cane.

343
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 3: No, it was a giant and standing next to somebody else,

344
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,759
and it was supposed to look like an old time photo.

345
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,519
This thing was supposed to be like a fifteen foot

346
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:39,559
tall giant. You could everything about it to me. I've

347
00:22:39,599 --> 00:22:44,599
seen it posted so many different times, but I see

348
00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:47,440
so many people trying to defend it and I see

349
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,400
things like there's a big foot photo that the guy

350
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,359
that made it literally came out and said after he

351
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,480
released it, it he this is all AI and he was

352
00:22:53,519 --> 00:22:55,400
doing at the warm people. They still pass it around

353
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,759
it it's one hundred percent reeal. I was like, the

354
00:22:57,799 --> 00:22:59,640
guy that made it is admitted that it's not real.

355
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,759
He did it to show people not to believe everything,

356
00:23:01,799 --> 00:23:03,720
and yet they're still saying that that's not true and

357
00:23:03,759 --> 00:23:06,640
that this is real. It was like, what point do

358
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,079
you become obsessed with wanting something so bad that you

359
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,519
know it's not real, but you're going to use it anyways.

360
00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:17,599
You're just already making it very hard for anyone to

361
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:18,480
take you seriously.

362
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 1: Some people just love to argue on Facebook, like I, actually,

363
00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:25,559
it's funny you mentioned that I ran a foul this

364
00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:31,720
a couple of weeks ago. I I've been posting like

365
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,359
interesting newspaper clippings that I find, and you know, going

366
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,279
back a hundred years, there's not a whole lot of

367
00:23:39,319 --> 00:23:42,200
pictures in the papers at that time. It's you know,

368
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,440
it's text only. So I thought it'd spiced up a

369
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:50,720
little bit by you know, making a quick little period

370
00:23:50,759 --> 00:23:55,200
representative photo as just like a visual aid and like

371
00:23:56,599 --> 00:24:00,599
someone made the mistake of like, oh wow, you know,

372
00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:02,960
it's crazy, that's what it looked like back then, and

373
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,279
then I stepped in it. This was on me, like,

374
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,599
oh no, no, actually, that's that's a I generated. I

375
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,000
just you know, threw it in there as a visual

376
00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:17,480
and like people got like war with the machines level

377
00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:19,680
of uh irate over it.

378
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 3: It was.

379
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: It was crazy. It's like, oh could you do that?

380
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,440
It's like, dude, I I said, it's a I generated.

381
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,400
This is obvious to me. I don't know how you

382
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,440
would mistake that guy's four fingers, Like, I guess four

383
00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:36,079
is easier when six is work gets weird. But uh,

384
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,920
they're working on the finger count. That's that's improving.

385
00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:42,799
Speaker 3: There are certain ones that are out there that are

386
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,480
very detailed, but there's still a little bit about them

387
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:50,359
that's not that you can somewhat detect. But I don't

388
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,160
know if I've ever talked about this on air, and

389
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,839
I I might get sued if I do, but I'm

390
00:24:55,839 --> 00:25:00,799
going to anyways, So I guess I you won't name

391
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,759
the one. I'll just that's why it'll keep me out

392
00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:08,799
of issues. But I was one of the first testers.

393
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,319
Like I'm not gonna say the first but I was

394
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,000
one of the few beta testers of one of these

395
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:20,880
revalent ai generators. And the area that it was from

396
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,720
you had to start paying. It was free for a while,

397
00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:26,440
but then they wanted to get to start paying to

398
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,839
get new credits in order to keep generating things. And

399
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,839
this is before I even started the show or anything

400
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,599
like it. But I liked making this stuff. I thought

401
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,440
it was fun, just not that I'm making it, but

402
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,000
just seeing what type of stuff I could create with.

403
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,279
I thought it was kind of neat, is before was everywhere.

404
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,359
So I signed up for like the monthly fee. I

405
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,839
think it was like fifteen dollars or something. It wasn't

406
00:25:51,839 --> 00:25:56,880
anything ridiculous, But right after it came out a few

407
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:04,400
days later, my bank account been hacked. Oh they'd taken

408
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,359
my debit card and tried to get a uber or

409
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:11,920
lyft or something like that in the town this city

410
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,680
that this software was developed, and they tried to go

411
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:20,319
to the ATM of a lot money will like stop

412
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,039
my carcas suspicious activity. And then I ended up getting

413
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:28,359
my money refunded. But I was like, well, I was

414
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,799
this thing is very prevalent right now, people are using it,

415
00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:33,440
people are paying for it. So I was like, why

416
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:36,319
was I the one they got hacked and there's no

417
00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:39,880
one else getting hacked. And then a couple months later,

418
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,920
I made my show or whatever, and I found other

419
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,519
ones that I made it with that are free, and

420
00:26:43,599 --> 00:26:45,880
I don't mess around with it at this point. But

421
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,359
there's too many similarities to the fact that I just

422
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:55,519
gave money to this company and then three days later

423
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,240
my car gets hacked from the same city as this

424
00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:02,880
company is based out of, on the other side of

425
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:03,319
the country.

426
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: So it was a little on the nose.

427
00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:09,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't mess with that one. And I'm

428
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,000
it's one of the best ones that I think that's

429
00:27:12,039 --> 00:27:13,920
out there, but I don't mess with it just because

430
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,279
of that whole situation. But certain ones do better artwork

431
00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:24,920
than other ones, which is weird considering they're all AI based.

432
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know enough about the different back end

433
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,039
for the different ones, but yeah, I've played around with,

434
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,559
you know, a few different ones, and you're right, there's

435
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,880
definitely a difference in quality.

436
00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 3: Like the artwork that's right now that if you can

437
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,680
see it on the screen of what I have that's

438
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,039
all AI. Even the logo is aim I've been a

439
00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:57,880
real minutaur. I've embraced the AI overlords at this point.

440
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:04,680
Now that is actually a upright walking canine with a

441
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:10,599
field mouse, very prevalent for myself, but we won't dive

442
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:18,279
into that one. Yeah, back to the weirdness of Jersey.

443
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:21,920
I know there was a lot of older stories of

444
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,240
the Jersey Devil too, like what year did it? What

445
00:28:24,279 --> 00:28:26,400
was it the seventeen hundreds or is it the eighteen

446
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,720
hundreds that supposedly happened?

447
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,279
Speaker 1: Seventeen thirty five was the eponymous night in question, with

448
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,720
mother leads giving birth to her thirteenth child, and actually

449
00:28:39,759 --> 00:28:45,279
it seems to have actually been the thirteenth child. So

450
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:52,359
mother leads in the story, you know who supposedly proclaims,

451
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,440
you know, after a very difficult pregnancy and birth, you know,

452
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,279
may this child be the devil? And then it is.

453
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,359
The baby is born, apparently a healthy boy, but quickly

454
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:12,640
transforms into wings, claws, tail, the whole nine, lashes out

455
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,079
at the assembled people and then escapes up the chimney

456
00:29:17,119 --> 00:29:24,079
and out into the night. And in fact, you know,

457
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,359
you think thirteen, it's just like okay, Yeah, you know,

458
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:31,480
thirteen is a scary number. It's got to be thirteen,

459
00:29:31,519 --> 00:29:35,119
you know, the thirteenth, et cetera. But in this case,

460
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:40,599
what seems to be the truth of it is that

461
00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:45,039
mother Leads was a woman named Deborah Leeds Smith. She

462
00:29:45,079 --> 00:29:51,279
had had twelve children. You know, I think like eight

463
00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:53,519
of them made it to adulthood. You know, that was

464
00:29:54,119 --> 00:30:00,680
sort of their reality for the time. But her her

465
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:06,119
husband by the name of Jaffittsmith excuse me, jaff Athleets.

466
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,480
His older brother was a guy named Titan, and Titan

467
00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:15,240
ran the family almanac. You know, they were publishers kind

468
00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:20,839
of politically affiliated, and he gets into it with this

469
00:30:21,079 --> 00:30:30,640
competing almanac in Philadelphia who basically starts, you know, s

470
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,000
posting on him to kind of get a leg up

471
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,920
for his own business. The Leeds family had had some

472
00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:45,519
falling out going back to Titan and Jaffett's father, who

473
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,279
unfortunately backed the Brits in the whole Revolutionary War thing,

474
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,519
so family kind of got dinged for that. But the

475
00:30:55,559 --> 00:31:02,279
competing almanac in Philadelphia was run by guy by the

476
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,480
going by the pen name of Richard Saunders, as in

477
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,319
Poor Richard's Almanac, and that guy was actually Ben Franklin.

478
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,640
So we have a founding father who is directly involved

479
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,599
in the Jersey Devil myth, which I always thought was

480
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,960
cool and hilarious because you know, you picture Ben Franklin,

481
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,599
it's the guy in the hundred dollars bill. At this time,

482
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,680
he was like twenty six years old, so he's just

483
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,440
you know this basically, this this punk ass kid who

484
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,200
is dunking on this guy to try and further his

485
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,720
own career, and it just paints this completely antithical picture

486
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:50,039
of you know, the Ben Franklin of legend basically. And

487
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:57,279
it was so it was tough to the effect of like, okay,

488
00:31:57,319 --> 00:32:01,160
so the Leeds Almanac would the whole One of the

489
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,440
things that they got in trouble with the Quakers for

490
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:10,079
was quote unquote paganism, and that was basically stuff like

491
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:15,000
referring to the months by August September instead of like

492
00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:21,599
you know, month eight, month nine, stuff like that, and

493
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,839
you know, it was actually kind of useful information, you know,

494
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,279
farmer's almanac type stuff. You know, land your crops, you

495
00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:30,160
know this month, you know the weather's looking good for

496
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:36,559
this year, you know, things like that. And so Ben

497
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:40,279
Franklin decided to do his own predictions, and so he

498
00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:48,400
basically predicted the day that Titan Leads would die, and understandably,

499
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,720
Titan kind of took issue with that. It's like, okay,

500
00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:53,799
well that's a jerk thing to do. I didn't die.

501
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,119
And then Ben Franklin responds with, oh, Titan's ghost is

502
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:04,799
harassing me stuff like that. But right, so, how does

503
00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:08,759
that factor into the Jersey Devil story? So when Titan's father,

504
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:15,720
Daniel fell out with the church, they would publish stuff

505
00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:20,480
in the other papers and pamphlets at the time calling

506
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:26,279
him harbinger and you know, devil, So you have Devil

507
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:31,000
in association with the family Leads. And then later on

508
00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:36,920
I couldn't find the direct connection to how Deborah kind

509
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,160
of got tainted with this whole thing. As far as

510
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,960
I could tell, she basically married into this family and

511
00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:46,440
had a couple of rough pregnancies. But I could kind

512
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,279
of see a situation where, you know, after losing a

513
00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:55,680
couple of children at a young age, the family could

514
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,640
be seen as you know, having a bad luck or

515
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:05,640
you know, open or something like that. But best anyone

516
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:11,159
can tell, that's essentially how you made the connection to

517
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:19,079
from Devil to this family. And so that Lenny Lenape

518
00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:22,800
forest spirit that I mentioned earlier, that legend was also

519
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,440
circulating around the Pines at that time. So something that

520
00:34:26,559 --> 00:34:30,239
was described as a devil, this family being described as devils,

521
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,480
these stories kind of get bounced around back and forth

522
00:34:33,559 --> 00:34:37,599
until eventually, oh yeah, that forest spirit we've been talking about,

523
00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:39,800
Oh yeah, I think it was birth by that family

524
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:45,920
that we describe as devils. So unfortunately the Lee's family

525
00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:47,800
kind of got the short end of that stick. But

526
00:34:48,599 --> 00:34:51,840
that's seems to be how.

527
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:58,639
Speaker 3: It shook out. I don't know a whole lot about Jersey.

528
00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:04,360
I guess I could look, But where the pine barns are,

529
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,880
Where is it located compared to like the bigger cities

530
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,440
of Jersey. Is it more remote?

531
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:18,519
Speaker 1: About as remote as you can get around here? I

532
00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:25,760
mean acre for acre, we've got the highest population density

533
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,840
of basically the rest of the US. But yeah, so

534
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,360
if if you go off of the I ninety five

535
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,519
carridor so, like if you drew a line between New

536
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:43,320
York and Philadelphia, the pine barrens are east of that,

537
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:47,639
going towards Atlantic City, the shore area.

538
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 3: About how many acres? I know, it's it's fairly big,

539
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,679
but for some reason, when I think of Jersey, I

540
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,880
don't ever think of like Baroness. I don't even New

541
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,840
York's the same way. Like whatever I think New York,

542
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,480
I think I like New York City. Well, clearly that's

543
00:36:04,519 --> 00:36:06,679
not like Niagara Falls, and all sorts of other things

544
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:07,760
are in New York too.

545
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: But.

546
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 3: There's been a lot of different strange things. I've always

547
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,119
heard about the pine barrens, But when you start to

548
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:23,079
dig into these type of stories, I think everywhere has

549
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:29,039
those legends. It's not just that, like anything wooded, you

550
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:32,880
hear a lot about it. Weird things happening now in

551
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,840
the woods, And I wonder if that's just not our

552
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,559
natural fear of the unknown. We don't know what's out there,

553
00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:42,679
so we're going to be afraid of it, Or again,

554
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,920
why are we afraid? Why are some people it's clearly

555
00:36:48,159 --> 00:36:51,599
my ADHD brain probably kicking on all cylinders at the moment,

556
00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:56,320
But why do people have fears about things that don't

557
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,960
seem to make any correlation? Like I don't like spiders.

558
00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:03,599
Why am I afraid of spiders? I don't know, Like

559
00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:06,119
I don't bother them, I don't try and just kill

560
00:37:06,119 --> 00:37:09,599
them all. I'll leave them alone. But same thing with snakes.

561
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:11,079
I don't I'm not afraid of snakes, but a lot

562
00:37:11,119 --> 00:37:14,079
of people are afraid of snakes. People are afraid of clowns.

563
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,719
Why do we get these weird phobias of stuff? And

564
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,519
I wonder if some people just don't get it, like

565
00:37:20,559 --> 00:37:23,559
because of the woods, like they're afraid of that. That

566
00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:24,159
makes sense.

567
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: I mean, in the case of clowns, I think that

568
00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:32,119
is a rational reaction. But you know, now, dangerous, dangerous colors.

569
00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:36,920
You know you're in serious answer, though, I think I

570
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,239
think there's definitely a rooted reason for that, you know,

571
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:43,320
like why do we sleep at night though? Because our

572
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,199
eyes are kind of shit compared to excuse me, it's just.

573
00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:50,079
Speaker 3: A outstanding.

574
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,119
Speaker 1: We got lousy eyes, say, at night, compared to stuff

575
00:37:55,159 --> 00:37:58,440
like lions and bears and anything else that might be

576
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,119
walking around the dark. So yeah, all your ancestors that

577
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,920
found success, they left at night. They stayed put, they

578
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,960
didn't go venturing out in the woods. So I think,

579
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,000
I mean, call it ancestral memory, call it instinct. They

580
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,400
be inherited culture to a degree. But I think there's

581
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,440
good reasons why where we have kind of a love

582
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,199
hate relationship with remote areas in the forest. Now, it's

583
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,280
like you like the natural setting, you like being around trees,

584
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,800
but at the same time you appreciate that there's things

585
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:34,880
out there that can kill you.

586
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 3: So there is a show called The Missing for one one.

587
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,199
I'm not sure if you're familiar with it. I am.

588
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,039
This is me putting on the tinfoil hat. Now, when

589
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:51,000
you start to look into a lot of these remote places,

590
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,519
there's a lot of people that go missing. I was like,

591
00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:56,360
Walls is a remote place, so I can see where

592
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,559
people could naturally just get lost. But a lot of

593
00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:03,880
the stuff that were people to abandon without a traces weird.

594
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,039
But when you start to add in the areas and

595
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:12,760
you overlay the sightings of what people say are bigfoot

596
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,559
or something like that, weird creatures. They're all in these

597
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:19,679
areas similar to where people will come up missing. If

598
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,559
you do the thing with the UFO, you see it too.

599
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:23,800
You do the things with underground like cave systems, it's

600
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,559
the same thing too. I think that's weird. Maybe it's

601
00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:31,920
all just a coincidence, but it seems to be people

602
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,079
come up missing, no traces. But yet there's also been

603
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:43,480
reports of strange creatures are flying UFOs or something like weird, making.

604
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: A great case for the national park containment theory.

605
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 3: That yeah, they I don't know the whole theory in

606
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,079
and out, but I know they claim that the national

607
00:39:57,119 --> 00:40:01,320
parks are basically just used to keep people out of

608
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,360
these areas because they know what's in these parks.

609
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

610
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 3: I like that one, which, Hey, this point in life,

611
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,079
I'm gonna probably just go ahead and say it's probably true,

612
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,960
because it wouldn't surprise me if it is.

613
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: Well, I mean they're actually joking aside, there is something

614
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,000
to it. It's more mundane though. It was usually like

615
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:32,039
the government accidentally contaminated a site dump some toxic waste there,

616
00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:34,519
set off a couple of nukes, and it was just

617
00:40:34,639 --> 00:40:36,760
easier to buy it up and be like, oh, yeah,

618
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,079
we're waiving the environmental rules in that area. You can't

619
00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:45,360
go in, though, trust me, you don't want to. That's

620
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,480
another kind of dirty side of our state. We've got

621
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:54,400
the most super fun sites breaker than any other state. Actually,

622
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,199
I think we have the highest absolute numbers too. But

623
00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:03,239
you know, there's some variety in there. Some sometimes it's

624
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,639
a relatively benign stuff like a soap factory was here,

625
00:41:07,679 --> 00:41:12,280
so we've got some rancid stuff underground. Other times it's

626
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,199
like there's bombs here and we don't think we got

627
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,039
them all we buried it. Just stay out of that area.

628
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,840
In fact, I don't know if you've ever heard of

629
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,480
the Radium Girls. They got a Netflix show a couple

630
00:41:27,519 --> 00:41:28,519
of years ago.

631
00:41:29,159 --> 00:41:30,159
Speaker 3: No, I'm not familiar.

632
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the women who painted radioactive paint on watch

633
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,480
dials and got in their mouths and stuff. They all

634
00:41:40,199 --> 00:41:45,719
died very hardly. That site wasn't fully cleaned up about

635
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:54,360
until about two thousand and nine. So like that, like

636
00:41:54,400 --> 00:42:01,360
the twenty no World War One weird idore one going

637
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:02,159
into the twenties.

638
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't hear about that, and if I did,

639
00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:06,679
I guess I just didn't really pay attention.

640
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: There is something they publicized very well.

641
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,519
Speaker 3: You mentioned like there's someplace out that way, and I

642
00:42:16,519 --> 00:42:18,320
do thought it was Pennsylvania for some reason. But they

643
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,840
actually lost a nuclear weapon, like an atomic bomb somewhere.

644
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:24,320
Have you ever heard of that?

645
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, there was more than one. I didn't hear about Pennsylvania.

646
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:35,800
I heard about one in I think Georgia and maybe

647
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:36,800
one of the Carolinas.

648
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 3: Okay, maybe I'm getting those confused.

649
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure Pennsylvania had some goofy stuff too. I

650
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:48,280
know Pennsylvania had this weird bell thing that supposedly crashed

651
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:53,639
I think in the sixties. It was like sixty eight

652
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,519
or something like that, and some people claim they've seen

653
00:42:55,559 --> 00:42:59,400
and getting taken out by the military on a truck

654
00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:05,920
or something like a corn shape, But I can't think

655
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:11,480
of what that place was called. But I've always kind

656
00:43:11,519 --> 00:43:13,599
of correlated that with them trying to build whatever the

657
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,480
Nazis had going on in World Ward two with the

658
00:43:15,559 --> 00:43:20,159
Nazi bell, maybe that was the testing out because at

659
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:22,239
that point they'd already had the scientist over here, so

660
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,920
who knows what they were trying to make with it. Yeah,

661
00:43:26,679 --> 00:43:30,159
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the whole

662
00:43:31,559 --> 00:43:38,760
Nazi alien spacecraft thing was actually a CIA cover up

663
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,199
to distract everyone from the fact that we invited the

664
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:43,360
Nazis over here.

665
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 3: Well, I have an episode that came out sometime earlier

666
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,960
this year, and it's called The Truth about Flying Saucers.

667
00:43:56,199 --> 00:44:02,679
The term flying saucer was actually pushed by the military

668
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,599
or the government, or whoever you want to call it,

669
00:44:05,519 --> 00:44:09,000
because I think that was a way for them to

670
00:44:09,079 --> 00:44:14,960
control the narrative. There had been reports from I can't

671
00:44:15,559 --> 00:44:19,440
Kenneth Arnold, he'd seen something while he was flying, but

672
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,840
the way he described it, he never said flying saucers.

673
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,400
He said they looked like they're flying are there, like

674
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:29,039
saucer would skip across the water. I mean that's how

675
00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:32,119
the term flying saucer got pushed, and then everyone, Oh,

676
00:44:32,159 --> 00:44:34,559
they were like disks. They're flying discs, and that's not

677
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,679
the shape that he actually drew. They're very crescent looking

678
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:48,559
and if you look at modernized stealth vehicles, they didn't like.

679
00:44:48,639 --> 00:44:53,079
Some of those designs, like the stealth bomber is reminiscent

680
00:44:53,119 --> 00:44:55,480
to what this design was. I'm not saying they had

681
00:44:55,519 --> 00:44:57,719
that back in the nineteen forties, but who knows what

682
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:58,519
they're working on.

683
00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: I mean, they had flying wings, at least in a

684
00:45:03,519 --> 00:45:10,079
in prototype. I forget if the if the Nazi flying

685
00:45:10,119 --> 00:45:12,519
wing actually ever got off the ground, because they found

686
00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:17,519
like the cockpit for it and plans, but I don't

687
00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:23,159
know if they ever got that one flying before the

688
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,559
US grabbed up the scientists and designs.

689
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:34,119
Speaker 3: Good old Project paper Clip, and then yeah, the one

690
00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:41,320
guy uh Warner von whatever ended up making that. Yeah,

691
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,679
very interesting time.

692
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: I guess I had that kind of Disney show.

693
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 3: How many people that I got to help murder, but

694
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,880
we're going to give him a high ranking job over here,

695
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:03,440
and all sorts of stuff again, weird times.

696
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, you wished you could write it off as a

697
00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:17,239
one off, but yeah, it's uh, happens with unfortunate frequency.

698
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:23,679
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Oh, go ahead, I say, this is the

699
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,920
show where I talk about whatever. So when it comes

700
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,400
to stuff like that, for me, it's just like I'm

701
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:40,519
one that doesn't trust whatever is sped to me by

702
00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:44,360
the media or the governments or whatever. I think there's

703
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,400
all sorts of stuff behind the scenes, And honestly, I

704
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:47,960
don't think we're supposed to know everything. I don't think

705
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,480
we should know everything, but we do a lot of

706
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,199
weird stuff. I think we instigate a lot of stuff,

707
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,719
and it's just like there's not really anything you or

708
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,760
I can do about it either. So too many people

709
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,239
get all worked up over but at the end of

710
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:12,519
the day, this is just business as usual. It's been

711
00:47:12,559 --> 00:47:14,960
going on for how many years, and I don't see

712
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,719
it stop it anytime soon. So but not just me

713
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,519
on my little opinion, here that means nothing.

714
00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:28,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear you. It's no one likes being lied

715
00:47:28,199 --> 00:47:33,480
to or or made to feel full, especially when you

716
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,199
take more exception to some of the stuff you're seeing.

717
00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:46,159
But yeah, it's it's like, you're right, what what what

718
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,840
can you do? And you know, feeling helpless on top

719
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,000
of that, it's no good for anyone, you know. That's

720
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:55,800
why it's Uh, it's always good to kind of recenter

721
00:47:56,199 --> 00:47:59,599
and you know, focus on the stuff you can control,

722
00:47:59,639 --> 00:48:02,199
you know, how you interact with the people in your circle,

723
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:11,880
and certainly in your case, you know, definitely working with

724
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,960
your audience and giving them some cool stuff to think about.

725
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't, like I said, I just I try

726
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,599
not to worry too much about it, just because there's

727
00:48:24,639 --> 00:48:27,000
not anything that anyone can do. I don't personally think so.

728
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:35,000
But you'd mentioned some other places in Jersey before we

729
00:48:35,079 --> 00:48:36,480
wrap this up that I kind of want to touch

730
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,599
base on some of the weirdest locations and things that

731
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:42,719
have happened, like supernatural locations or whatever. You want to

732
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,039
dive into some of those real quick.

733
00:48:45,559 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: Sure, I think a good place to wrap us up

734
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,000
would be I mean, we can't talk about weird stuff

735
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:59,239
in Jersey without talking about the asylums, I think Essex

736
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,800
County Snake Hill, but I think my favorite must be

737
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:10,960
Greystone because just the the high lofted goals that went

738
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:17,320
into overuse and deterioration and then it was met with

739
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,480
the wreck and ball in just such a inauspicious way.

740
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:26,159
So okay, so what's Greystone. It was a mental asylum

741
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,199
in a very picturesque part of the state. You know,

742
00:49:29,199 --> 00:49:32,760
it was on this nice rolling hill, you know, open fields,

743
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,039
you know, beautiful view and it was started in the

744
00:49:37,079 --> 00:49:41,039
whole theory of the time. Now this is like late

745
00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:43,679
eighteen hundreds, and you think, you know, you think of

746
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,360
like lunatic asylums and straight jackets and you know, like

747
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,639
the worst parts the worst cliches for mental health. And

748
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,880
actually at the time their theories were pretty sound. It

749
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,039
was get the patients in fresh air, get them interacting

750
00:49:58,039 --> 00:50:02,440
in a healthy way, you know, get them doing constructive

751
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,039
things with their hands. You know, they had like a

752
00:50:06,599 --> 00:50:09,360
you know, carpentry shops and you know, gardening, and you

753
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:14,239
know they had patients doing productive things. And it's like, well,

754
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:16,559
all right, that's actually seems kind of sensible.

755
00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 3: You know.

756
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,159
Speaker 1: It wasn't like lock them in a room or electrocutem

757
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,320
or anything like that. Unfortunately, that kind of took a

758
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,920
turn later, but at least when it started out, it

759
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:34,559
was pretty sound for the time. I'll say, you know, certainly,

760
00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:38,119
you know, there's me making broad generalizations about mental health.

761
00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:39,079
Speaker 3: Hah.

762
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: Now. But so fast forward several years, as often, unfortunately

763
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:51,599
seems to be the case, oh you've got beds and professionals, good,

764
00:50:51,679 --> 00:50:56,199
we've got trouble cases we need to send you. And

765
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,199
the hospital you know, originally had like seven hundred beds,

766
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:03,840
and they at their worst they were forced to take on, like,

767
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:09,360
you know, thousands of patients, so people in a very

768
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,360
already distressed state of mind who now were not getting

769
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:19,320
the care that they were in desperate need of. There

770
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,880
was a tuberculosis war at one point, you know, just

771
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:28,280
a lot of very unfortunate human misery occurring within this area.

772
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:34,400
And you fast forward to the nineties and the state

773
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,320
opens a new facility, and the place gets closed down,

774
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:45,199
starts deteriorating, and becomes, as often seems to be the case,

775
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:51,679
a popular spot for urban explorers. And then, of course,

776
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,960
you know, once it's creepy and dirty, then that's when

777
00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:03,239
all the ghost stories start coming out people supposedly you know,

778
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:08,079
hear chains in the hallways. Oh there's underground tunnels too.

779
00:52:08,159 --> 00:52:13,760
That that was another one, so abandoned mental asylum and

780
00:52:14,119 --> 00:52:18,800
there's subterranean tunnels running underneath it, so like they got

781
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,639
the whole subterranean aspect to creepy to go on top

782
00:52:21,679 --> 00:52:22,000
of it.

783
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 3: That is a weird coincidence with a lot of other

784
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,719
places where you hear a lot of stuff like this.

785
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:37,239
There's always those underground somethings, like sometimes there's like underground springs,

786
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,239
or there's underground cave systems or it is weird.

787
00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Unfortunately that whole place is is a gorgeous building too,

788
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,440
is a something called a Kirkbride building, just very distinctive.

789
00:52:54,679 --> 00:52:56,480
Like you look at this, you know, you're looking at

790
00:52:56,519 --> 00:53:02,679
a Victorian era mental hospital, and unfortunately it's not there anymore.

791
00:53:03,079 --> 00:53:09,519
I got demoed in twenty fifteen, despite a huge outpouring

792
00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:14,840
from a preservationists, you know a lot of concerned citizens,

793
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,199
you know, people really trying to not necessarily the whole

794
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,440
thing because you know, in truth it had become kind

795
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:28,840
of an attractive nuisance. Those underground tunnels I mentioned became

796
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:39,079
a problem in particular, and so when they protested the demolition,

797
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,760
they were overruled. And then they wanted to know, Okay,

798
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,400
well why was this overruled? We had a place in

799
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:52,360
the National Registry of Historic Landmarks, so why are you

800
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,079
able to just ignore that? And so they got like

801
00:53:55,119 --> 00:53:58,079
one hundred pages of documents that were like ninety nine

802
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:07,960
percent redacted the speculation. What seems to have happened was,

803
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,679
you know, the powers that be had already decided that

804
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,480
this was the way things were going to go down.

805
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,320
The contract had already been written, and uh that was that,

806
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,639
which unfortunately is kind of emblematic of New Jersey's track

807
00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:28,159
record with historic places. So one has to wonder if

808
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,480
the ghosts get evicted with the demolition or if they're

809
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,320
tied to the ground. But I don't have an answer

810
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:35,559
for that.

811
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:48,199
Speaker 3: M weird. There a any other places do you want

812
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:53,000
to talk about too? I'm just trying to figure out,

813
00:54:53,039 --> 00:54:55,119
like some of the bringingone out there listening, and I

814
00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:57,079
always trying to give the audio the places because I

815
00:54:57,159 --> 00:54:58,880
find out that a lot of people are always close

816
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,519
to some of these things that they might learned something

817
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:02,440
that they're not even sure bound they live right around

818
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:02,960
the area.

819
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: Let's see stuff that hasn't been demoed. Oh okay, yeah,

820
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:21,000
perfect one Whitehill Mansion in Fieldsboro, New Jersey that's near

821
00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:28,719
the Philadelphia area, if anyone is around there. That was

822
00:55:29,039 --> 00:55:34,760
a mansion going back to Revolutionary War times. The second owner,

823
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:41,400
Robert Field Second, drowned under somewhat mysterious circumstances and then

824
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,280
his property transferred to his wife and she ended up

825
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:52,599
living there for many years and today it supposedly has

826
00:55:52,639 --> 00:55:55,880
strange sounds at night. So I don't know if they

827
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,880
do nighttime tours or just daytime tours, but people have

828
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,199
done like sleepovers there. I think it was for like

829
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:08,199
a ghost hunter shows type thing. But Whitehill Mansion definitely

830
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:14,679
worth checking out if you are interested in something spooky.

831
00:56:16,599 --> 00:56:21,800
Speaker 3: Well, we can probably wrap this one up, but before

832
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,320
we do, where can everyone find your podcast up?

833
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:34,159
Speaker 1: Probably the best spot would be on YouTube. Just type

834
00:56:34,199 --> 00:56:39,760
in wes verde w E s V E R d E.

835
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,880
I can also find me at wesverday dot com. That'll

836
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:48,840
have links to all my videos, books, interesting newspaper clippings

837
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:55,199
that I find. And yeah, well we come check.

838
00:56:55,079 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 3: It out, I guess. Before we wrap this up, I'm

839
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:04,360
going to ask, so, what really got you inspired to

840
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,519
do all of this? I want to join this crazy

841
00:57:07,559 --> 00:57:08,719
world of podcasting.

842
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: Like I said, I started doing the research for the

843
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,119
books primarily, and then I mean that kind of came

844
00:57:20,159 --> 00:57:23,960
out of personal interest. I I didn't get to talk

845
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:28,519
about the boot And Reservoir, which is a lake that

846
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:33,440
is the former site of a town that was had

847
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,159
some kind of again shady business deals going on there

848
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,119
in order to produce a reservoir for Jersey City in

849
00:57:41,159 --> 00:57:44,880
New York. But I grew up in that area and

850
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,239
so grown up hearing about that story. So I started

851
00:57:48,239 --> 00:57:51,519
researching that and then from there that kind of you know,

852
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:56,159
once he had kind of established the sources for you know,

853
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,400
looking this stuff up, you start poking around and finding

854
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,920
other stuff, and you know, just a lot of these

855
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,280
interesting stories just started coming out, and you know, it

856
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,760
was just fun to talk about. I can only tell

857
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,039
these things to my wife so much before I just

858
00:58:11,159 --> 00:58:13,159
you know, get the eye rolls and just you know,

859
00:58:13,239 --> 00:58:17,679
clearly not interested anymore. So I had to seek another audience.

860
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 3: I understand how that can be sometimes. Well, Wes, it's

861
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:26,840
been a pleasure talking to you.

862
00:58:29,159 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: Pleasures all here Brandon, Thanks for having me.

863
00:58:31,239 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 3: Yep, not a problem for anyone out there listening. Make

864
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,079
sure to check out Wes's show and you can find

865
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:40,159
more information about that in the show notes. But we're

866
00:58:40,199 --> 00:58:42,159
gonna wrap this one up, so we'll check you on

867
00:58:42,239 --> 00:58:50,119
the next one. And that's the show everyone. I really

868
00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:52,760
hope you guys enjoyed the conversations. If you would like

869
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,239
to be a guest on Tenfoil Tels, remember to send

870
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,159
an email to Tenfoil Tales Podcast at gmail dot com

871
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,239
or go to the contact section and foiltel dot com.

872
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,320
Just get your message to me. We'll get some schedule

873
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,360
for a future episode. And just remember the truth lies,

874
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,000
and the stories we share, the connections we make, stay

875
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,719
curiously open minded. Thank you all for joining us on

876
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,960
this journey, and until next time, keep questioning, keep seeking,

877
00:59:15,079 --> 00:59:18,039
and keep exploring the unknown. Good Night everyone, See thought.

878
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: Sounds and the headphones. Yeah, it's turn to rock.

879
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,719
Speaker 1: Got a story about a cryptic creature.

880
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 2: Let's take a walk, big Foot Tugmer. They're out there

881
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,079
in the talk, but the truth is out there likingly

882
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:34,199
as fuck.

883
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:36,119
Speaker 3: Us.

884
00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:41,599
Speaker 2: Both sightings got the whole world. Shop conspiracies on phones

885
00:59:41,679 --> 00:59:46,679
like a story in the book control sign the.

886
00:59:46,719 --> 00:59:47,639
Speaker 3: Kid us back.

887
00:59:49,239 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 2: We're all gonna use them a line in myty. They

888
00:59:55,400 --> 01:00:00,159
don't want us to know the sea mist hide if

889
01:00:00,199 --> 01:00:06,559
they will show Nonnado Society. They keep us in chase

890
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:11,199
when sending Tomas time.

891
01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:12,159
Speaker 3: To break the reins.

892
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 2: Control trying to keep us fine, but I'm all before

893
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:37,280
we're gonna.

894
01:00:37,079 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 3: Use in history.

895
01:00:42,159 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 2: They want us to know the secrets to hide since

896
01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:53,440
they will show Donnado Society. They keep us in chase

897
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,079
when sending talk does sound to break the reins