Speaker 1: That is the creepiest music, the scariest song I have
Speaker 1: ever heard associated with anything on any kind of horror
Speaker 1: movie or show or whatever. And that has a lot
Speaker 1: to do with the guests we have on today and
Speaker 1: the subject about which we will speak, and we had
Speaker 1: with this John Kenneth Muir. He is the author of
Speaker 1: many books about horror and sinnem and such, which is
Speaker 1: just a hoop. I hope beyond our show the last
Speaker 1: Friday along with at him go rightly. But He's what
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about today is the book that he's
Speaker 1: written called An Analytical Guide Television's One Step Beyond nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty nine to nineteen sixty one. Again, it's one Step
Speaker 1: Beyond and mandate. It burned an indelible market in my brain.
Speaker 2: And John, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 3: Ah, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Keith oh Man, I'll tell you what. I don't know
Speaker 2: what it is that got me on this trail a
Speaker 2: while ago.
Speaker 1: It's probably having about him insomnia and just going down.
Speaker 2: Whatever you know roads.
Speaker 1: I'm bled, but I guess I had mentioned something when
Speaker 1: I had started using part of that theme song which
Speaker 1: is entitled fear Uh for an intro and then someone said, hey,
Speaker 1: you know One Step Beyond still floating out there, And
Speaker 1: then I started looking and and I came to your site,
Speaker 1: and folks, I don't tell you right now. The link
Speaker 1: is up there along with the link to the audio,
Speaker 1: and John's a website as well, which is John Kenneth
Speaker 1: Muir dot com.
Speaker 2: All that's on my homepage. But there's a a transcript
Speaker 2: of an interview that John did with John Newland, who
Speaker 2: was your Was he your host? And to the Beyond or.
Speaker 4: Something like that, that that did exactly your guide to
Speaker 4: the world of the unknown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh, we're gonna talk about One Step yr.
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about John Newland. But I'll tell you what, Uh, John,
Speaker 2: why don't.
Speaker 1: You set up a little brief historical synopsis of the show.
Speaker 4: Absolutely One Step Beyond, which was originally called alco of
Speaker 4: Prisons because back in the day of the late fifties
Speaker 4: early sixties, we had companies sponsoring a whole hour or
Speaker 4: half hour of entertainment on television as a post to
Speaker 4: today where we have various companies doing it. So One
Speaker 4: Step Beyond was originally called ALCOA Presents One Step Beyond,
Speaker 4: but It was a paranormal anthology that premiered in nineteen
Speaker 4: fifty nine, actually ten months before Rod Sterling's The Twilight Zone.
Speaker 4: And John Newland, who was a star of sort of
Speaker 4: golden age television, was not only the host of the series,
Speaker 4: but he actually directed all ninety six segments.
Speaker 2: Of the show.
Speaker 4: He was very aware of what TV was like at
Speaker 4: the time, and he had guest starred in a lot
Speaker 4: of shows, and he wanted to do for his show
Speaker 4: one step beyond, something very different, instead of focusing on
Speaker 4: sort of supernatural horror like later shows like a Night.
Speaker 2: Gallery that was a Starling production. Also, was it not.
Speaker 3: Absolutely like you got it?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: Instead of just doing that, what he wanted to do
Speaker 4: was investigate the paranormal, and so all of his stories
Speaker 4: he wanted to have some foot in reality, and so
Speaker 4: when he narrated, he would say things like, what you
Speaker 4: were about to see, as a matter of human record,
Speaker 4: explain it. We cannot disprove it, we cannot know it.
Speaker 4: Was that sort of thing where that he actually tried
Speaker 4: to invest investigate all of.
Speaker 3: These paranormal events.
Speaker 4: And so in the course of the three years and
Speaker 4: ninety six half hour episodes that One Step Beyond was
Speaker 4: on television. You know, they did things like they did
Speaker 4: cases involving reincarnation, big foot sightings, They even did a
Speaker 4: biography of Peter Herko's a famous psychic at the time.
Speaker 4: They did, you know, crisis apparitions and premonitions and clairvoyants
Speaker 4: and automatic writing. And basically what made the show so
Speaker 4: special was not just this amazing and moody black and
Speaker 4: white photography, but the sense that the people who made
Speaker 4: the show tried very very hard to follow what the
Speaker 4: literature of paranormal studies were at that time. In other words,
Speaker 4: if there was going to be an apparition, they wanted
Speaker 4: to portray the apparition on the show as accurately as
Speaker 4: they could according to eyewitness testimony and parapsychological lore. So
Speaker 4: the show was not only scary, it was in a
Speaker 4: sense really based on fact.
Speaker 3: And one of the interesting things.
Speaker 4: About Akivas and I know you know this because you
Speaker 4: remember these episodes, but they would often tell a story
Speaker 4: on One Step Beyond, and then in the last five
Speaker 4: minutes of a half hour, they would bring on an eyewitness,
Speaker 4: the person.
Speaker 3: Who had experienced in the story.
Speaker 4: For instance, there was an episode called title Wave in
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty about a deaf woman who was not able
Speaker 4: to hear the call to evacuate when title wave was
Speaker 4: coming in, but she was rescued by a stranger who
Speaker 4: excuse me, who sort of hurt her calls for help.
Speaker 4: At the end of the show, they brought on the
Speaker 4: people involved. So it tried very hard to be accurate
Speaker 4: and realistic, and you know that just made it doubly creepy.
Speaker 4: So that's what one step beyond was. You know, three
Speaker 4: years ninety six shows some were shot in great Britain.
Speaker 4: You know, I could list the amazing actors who were
Speaker 4: in the show.
Speaker 3: You've got William.
Speaker 4: Shatner in an episode, Christopher Lee is in an episode,
Speaker 4: Warren Batty is in an episode, Claris Leachman, you know,
Speaker 4: great cast and great stories.
Speaker 1: No, I'm just thinking back now because, as we've said before,
Speaker 1: in those days of TV, there seemed.
Speaker 2: To be a number of actors who were the usual suspects.
Speaker 1: That turned up in almost every show, regardless of what
Speaker 1: network is.
Speaker 2: Then. Of course, ABC, CBS and NBC was still eight
Speaker 2: hundred pound gorillas, you know, right, and carried a lot
Speaker 2: of I guess story serials and I won't go into
Speaker 2: the whole thing.
Speaker 1: But I remember like ABC, you know, had just a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff done by Warner Brothers.
Speaker 2: That was Chyenne and Sugarfoot.
Speaker 1: Rick and all this other stuff. And I mean some
Speaker 1: of these actors would just be in all these shows.
Speaker 1: And the same is true with One Step Beyond. In fact,
Speaker 1: John Newland himself, as you had said at the beginning,
Speaker 1: and we're spelling that any W L A N D.
Speaker 1: John as John John Newland also appeared.
Speaker 2: In other shows on TV.
Speaker 1: But the one thing that never fit when he played
Speaker 1: this kind of part because of what he did on
Speaker 1: One Step Beyond. He was a cowboy, you know, John
Speaker 1: Newlan pulling the gun and saying, Okay, you're trying to
Speaker 1: be a heavy. It just isn't work. And you know
Speaker 1: that was so out of cot but you I think
Speaker 1: was on your blog. I'm not sure, but somebody said
Speaker 1: it just perfectly about the way that Newlan presented himself
Speaker 1: as the host. He said he was like a funeral
Speaker 1: director who just found out that there was, like, you know,
Speaker 1: numerous fatalities on the interstate and they're bringing the bodies in.
Speaker 3: I wish I had said that. I don't know if
Speaker 3: I did. But that's a.
Speaker 2: Great well, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Oh, Because he just had the slightest little upturn to
Speaker 1: his mouth and his eyes just a bit.
Speaker 3: You know, it was like, you know, you weren't sure
Speaker 3: is he having you on?
Speaker 2: Is he not having you on?
Speaker 3: You know, you weren't sure.
Speaker 4: You know, he took such a delight in the you know,
Speaker 4: the macabre elements of the series, and you know it's
Speaker 4: it's you know today, it's it's very easy and very right.
Speaker 4: How we credit Rod Serling with so much of the
Speaker 4: creative genius of the Twilight Zone, but you know, I
Speaker 4: think the same you know, courtesy is really due. John
Speaker 4: Newlan didn't consider he directed every single segment, almost one
Speaker 4: hundred of one step beyond as well as opposed to
Speaker 4: you know, so that look that we're all familiar with,
Speaker 4: you know, it comes on two AM and it hits
Speaker 4: you in this in the face, this aura of black
Speaker 4: and white creepiness. You know, that's what John Newland did.
Speaker 4: You know. So it's really an amazing accomplishment, I think.
Speaker 1: And they did it, they did it well, and they
Speaker 1: did it understated. I mean, in the last twenty years,
Speaker 1: you know, we've had to become in or if we're
Speaker 1: willing to do that with slashing movies and a lot
Speaker 1: of gore and a lot of body parts. But back
Speaker 1: then it was also lot like what Hitchcock did, you know,
Speaker 1: with the turning of a doorknob, like a close up
Speaker 1: was was would drive you right out of your chair
Speaker 1: and not knowing who was going to come in on
Speaker 1: the other side. But you you remember that set too
Speaker 1: because he did two things. One he would do a
Speaker 1: standard intro I remember, and he had this very plane
Speaker 1: and of course it was black and white.
Speaker 2: So it was this like gray background. But you know
Speaker 2: what was spooky about it.
Speaker 1: The shadows that were cast through that transom with like
Speaker 1: the three spokes. Yeah, I mean I think they call
Speaker 1: him transoms whatever they that decord. The thing is over
Speaker 1: the front door, that's glass what it is. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: those those rays came in, I mean, the shadows came
Speaker 1: in and it was like that just spooked me out,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: And and then he would.
Speaker 1: Also walk into the opening scenes stage.
Speaker 4: Setting right right he exactly, he would he would come
Speaker 4: in and he would interact almost you know, he'd be
Speaker 4: there staring at the people like they'd finish their scene
Speaker 4: and he'd be standing there or or walk amongst the
Speaker 4: set and pick up a off or what have you.
Speaker 4: So he was very integrated into the into the into
Speaker 4: the scenes. And you know what was so amazing about
Speaker 4: what he did is that some of those episodes talking
Speaker 4: about such basic things. There's there's one like about a
Speaker 4: girl who has a premonition that a chandelier is going
Speaker 4: to fall, and sort of the whole episode, the whole
Speaker 4: thirty minute is is this build up of suspense through
Speaker 4: her whole life as she goes through all these events
Speaker 4: in her life and is the chandelier in the living
Speaker 4: room going to fall or not?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: And one is it going to fall? And what is
Speaker 3: it going to do?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: I mean that's just such beautiful, economical, uh, storytelling to
Speaker 4: hinge everything on one device, you know, tinge everything on
Speaker 4: one idea, the idea of a chandelier, of a premonition
Speaker 4: that that the chandelier in your house is going to fall,
Speaker 4: you know, and he would do spinning cameras around the chandelier,
Speaker 4: low angles up. But yeah, it's just brilliant stuff. And
Speaker 4: you know, of course it was on a budget. It
Speaker 4: didn't cost anything to make that scary episode.
Speaker 2: You know, well, you make a good point, because what
Speaker 2: they did was it was it. They used.
Speaker 1: The solid storytelling techniques, especially the right and it was
Speaker 1: only a half an hour show as far as.
Speaker 2: I remembered that, did he not do one or two
Speaker 2: that might have been expanded?
Speaker 4: I think he only did half hour shows for one
Speaker 4: step beyond now he did go on later to direct
Speaker 4: episodes of Night Gallery and such, which were a various lengths.
Speaker 3: So you may be thinking of one of those.
Speaker 2: Okay, No, I didn't know if he ever did like
Speaker 2: a special, because you know, it seemed like, well, well
Speaker 2: we'll talk about that one that he actually went down
Speaker 2: into into South America for I thought that might have
Speaker 2: been a longer. But for the most part he did.
Speaker 1: Okay, if he did exclusively one hour show half hour shows, right,
Speaker 1: what's also well, what's what's good about that in those
Speaker 1: days is that there was less commercial content and you
Speaker 1: got more, you know, story content, not like it is now,
Speaker 1: so you got a little bit more of a break
Speaker 1: trying to tell a story in a half hour. But
Speaker 1: still that is very tough.
Speaker 4: To do, it is it is, And you know, that's
Speaker 4: when you realize so much depends on performance and the
Speaker 4: image that's told, you know, and and and how well
Speaker 4: written the story is. It's just, you know, really one
Speaker 4: step beyond has been my model for sort of effective,
Speaker 4: really low budget filmmaking. If you think about it, yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, it's well, I'll say it was. They did
Speaker 1: even a better job. But I think they were to
Speaker 1: TV horror shows if you will, what maybe not a
Speaker 1: Living Debt was a low budget you know, horror films.
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't a big expenditure, but they made
Speaker 1: it work in black and white. Also, let's face it,
Speaker 1: when it gets down to things that are creepy, black
Speaker 1: and white still works as a medium, I think, much
Speaker 1: better than color.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 4: You know, when you're looking at something in black and white, kid,
Speaker 4: and I think you feel the same way. You know,
Speaker 4: you're not looking at the color of the clothes somebody's wearing,
Speaker 4: or the color of the wall behind them. You're looking
Speaker 4: at those at their faces, and you're looking at shadow
Speaker 4: and you're looking at the light. And you know, it
Speaker 4: makes the actors almost come out more in black and
Speaker 4: white because you're really focused on their features and what
Speaker 4: they're saying. You know, not all of these things, not
Speaker 4: all these other things like I mentioned.
Speaker 2: You know, well, what you just said I think is true.
Speaker 1: And this is why also I think it works still
Speaker 1: to just dan I and that is is the gradations
Speaker 1: of gray, the shadows, those are that there's so much
Speaker 1: more dramatic than color can ever be. I mean again,
Speaker 1: back in the old days of TV, which I remember
Speaker 1: of most of it being black and white, you also
Speaker 1: had shows. Boy, oh, there's a million stories in the
Speaker 1: Naked City. There you go, The Naked City. I mean
Speaker 1: it was about streets and New York and stuff, and
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it you had to do it
Speaker 1: in black and white, and nobody wanted to see color.
Speaker 1: I mean they were doing the pretty dirty stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: with puddled streets, and you know, it always seemed like
Speaker 1: they shot in the winter because it was a snowback
Speaker 1: on every corner.
Speaker 2: But that's you know.
Speaker 1: And The Defenders is another one I remember from those
Speaker 1: days with E. G. Marshall and Robert Reid his first
Speaker 1: TV series, and it was done in the city and
Speaker 1: it was, you know, it was black and white, and
Speaker 1: it really it worked.
Speaker 2: It had to be like that.
Speaker 1: It drew all the attention of viewers to the actors
Speaker 1: and to what they were doing and to the cuts,
Speaker 1: and there wasn't all this. You know, they never shot
Speaker 1: like any kind of vista or skyl into New York
Speaker 1: City because that wasn't part of it. You know, it
Speaker 1: was down in dirty stuff. And so this was in
Speaker 1: one step beyond. And let me just set this up
Speaker 1: for you real.
Speaker 2: Quick if I can. I do you know, do you
Speaker 2: remember I believe that one.
Speaker 1: Step beyond jumped day in time once. Do you have
Speaker 1: any other schedule changes to them for any of the
Speaker 1: three seasons?
Speaker 4: Gosh, you know, I don't think so. I think it
Speaker 4: pretty much kept the Tat the same time, the only
Speaker 4: real format ship was that had shot like the last
Speaker 4: thirteen in Great Britain because they kind of needed a change.
Speaker 4: And I think there was just one schedule shift. I
Speaker 4: think that was in the third year.
Speaker 1: I think, all right, I thought it's it changed a
Speaker 1: day because all right now I'm watching this show.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Do we remember when new shows were birthed in the
Speaker 1: old days. Was this a coming out in September of
Speaker 1: fifty nine?
Speaker 4: You know, it actually started in January fifty nine. It
Speaker 4: actually you know, it started like the mid season or well, actually,
Speaker 4: you know, it's the beginning of nineteen fifty nine.
Speaker 3: But it's what today we would call.
Speaker 4: Them mid season, the show, you know, the fifty eight
Speaker 4: to fifty nine season. See, And that's how it'd be
Speaker 4: twilight Zone if these twilight Zone came around come September
Speaker 4: fifty nine. But One Step Beyond had already you know,
Speaker 4: which I had already been on the air for you know,
Speaker 4: almost a year at that point.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, now here's what happened. This is what
Speaker 1: I remember. I'm going to go back and I'm going
Speaker 1: to look into New York Times TV listenings when I
Speaker 1: go back up to the university here and go back
Speaker 1: into nineteen fifty nine or sixty and look at the
Speaker 1: because you know, all the shows obviously are listed there.
Speaker 1: But what I do remember is, and this is a big,
Speaker 1: big discussion point, my parents whether they were going to
Speaker 1: let me watch One Step Beyond because they didn't want
Speaker 1: admit it, but it creeped them out too.
Speaker 3: Well, it is craepy.
Speaker 1: So I remember I would get you know, I would
Speaker 1: do my homework, but boy, I used that over my head.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you, well, you better than the homework.
Speaker 1: Well that homework i'd done, I think it was Wednesday night.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Do you know what day it was?
Speaker 4: You know, I it's been think it's been almost ten
Speaker 4: since I wrote the book, and I don't remember what
Speaker 4: night it was.
Speaker 2: That's okay, but I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't remember which night it was actually on in
Speaker 4: its original broadcast.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking it was a Wednesday night because it was
Speaker 2: a school night.
Speaker 1: I remember that, and it was at some time when
Speaker 1: I was allowed to watch it, so I had to
Speaker 1: get my homework done and I had to get showered.
Speaker 1: I mean, they got everything they wanted out of me.
Speaker 1: And I remember the show before it was called Stagecoach
Speaker 1: that I remember.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't even tell you one plot line stage Coach
Speaker 1: because I was just sitting there, just waiting for one
Speaker 1: step beyond the come on and when it started with
Speaker 1: the music, and when it started with the drums and
Speaker 1: with the one step beyond, you know, bang bang bang,
Speaker 1: when that came on the screen, I was like already
Speaker 1: gripping the arms.
Speaker 2: Of the chair.
Speaker 3: You know, that's great.
Speaker 4: Well, you know the thing is, you know, I like
Speaker 4: to always say that, you know, one step behind looks
Speaker 4: like it was like transmitted. It does look like it
Speaker 4: was transmitted from a twilight and you can watch it now.
Speaker 4: It just takes you back to a place sometimes. You know,
Speaker 4: I was just really amazing thing.
Speaker 2: What you wrote that book ten years ago.
Speaker 4: I realized when I was looking in the book, because
Speaker 4: I wanted to recall the exact time, you know, I
Speaker 4: was one of the last people was fortunate enough to
Speaker 4: interview John Newlyan's right, and I wanted to look up
Speaker 4: and see exactly what the date was so I could
Speaker 4: tell you. And it looks like I interviewed him on
Speaker 4: the afternoon of October twenty eighth, nineteen ninety nine. So
Speaker 4: it's not quite ten years, but it's like maybe nine years.
Speaker 4: The book came out in two thousand and one, just
Speaker 4: because the world of publishing is so, you know, so
Speaker 4: much slower than you know, it takes a couple of
Speaker 4: years to prepare and everything. But yeah, I was thinking that,
Speaker 4: you know, I was so excited to talk about the Shins.
Speaker 4: Oh I'm going to get to go back and revisit something,
Speaker 4: and I realized just how long it had been since,
Speaker 4: you know, I had actually watched all those episodes and.
Speaker 3: Written the book. So yeah, it was it was nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety nine when.
Speaker 1: I did it, Bah, I can't play and John Newlan
Speaker 1: I was happy to find out because this doesn't often
Speaker 1: work this way.
Speaker 2: His on screen persona seemed very classy.
Speaker 1: He managed not to get himself involved in any tabloid
Speaker 1: stuff even back then because there still wasn't you know.
Speaker 2: The National Inquirer was with us back then as well.
Speaker 1: Right, He just seemed to be clean and sharp and
Speaker 1: did his job, and you found him to be the
Speaker 1: gentleman I was hoping he would be.
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 4: I have to tell you, he was just a delight
Speaker 4: to interview. He spent probably two two and a half,
Speaker 4: maybe even close to three hours with me on the phone,
Speaker 4: and he answered every single question I asked, and he
Speaker 4: didn't he didn't plenty punches, like when I would ask
Speaker 4: him like what was your least favorite shower? You know
Speaker 4: that they did a sequel series in the seventies and
Speaker 4: syndication called Next Step Beyond, which you.
Speaker 3: Know wasn't very good.
Speaker 4: He was very upfront and honest about what the flaws
Speaker 4: of that series were. He was just very willing to
Speaker 4: talk about the whole experience from One Step Beyond, the
Speaker 4: Next Step Beyond. He was a straight shooter. He was
Speaker 4: an open minded guy, and you know, he's truly one
Speaker 4: of the great you know, I think television pioneers, and
Speaker 4: you know, I sometimes I find out when I'm in
Speaker 4: viewing people in Hollywood today that, you know, people who
Speaker 4: I really respect and like on screen or who are
Speaker 4: my heroes, I get to interview them and I ended
Speaker 4: up not thinking much of them personally, and it kind
Speaker 4: of makes me sad. But you know, that was not
Speaker 4: the case with John Newland. You know, he lived up
Speaker 4: to my expectations and you know, far far beyond that.
Speaker 4: He was an amazing individual. And the only thing I
Speaker 4: would want to add to that is that he did Unfortunately,
Speaker 4: he he passed away in January of two thousand and
Speaker 4: he was eighty two years old, So you know, I
Speaker 4: spoke to him in October ninety nine and he was
Speaker 4: gone by January tenth of two thousands.
Speaker 2: But I mean, was he still show up as attack
Speaker 2: or whatever when you were talking to him.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, he was huge. Remember titles of episodes and things.
Speaker 4: I said, you know, what was your least favorite episode
Speaker 4: of One Step Beyond and why? And he remembered it
Speaker 4: was called blood Flower. It's a not very good episode about.
Speaker 3: Like a flower carrying like the blood of.
Speaker 4: Revolutionaries since Nouth America or something. He said, all I
Speaker 4: just thought that concept stunk.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: He was he was just a great guy.
Speaker 4: And he remembered episode titled He remembered his interactions with
Speaker 4: actresses like Suzanne Plachett or actors like Warren Batty. He
Speaker 4: just remembered everything. He remembered specific shoots. He was able
Speaker 4: to tell me a story about meeting Frank Sinatra on
Speaker 4: the set of One Step Beyond shooting an episode called
Speaker 4: If U See Sally. You know, it was just amazing.
Speaker 4: It was really one of the highlights of my professional
Speaker 4: career to be able to share that time with him,
Speaker 4: and he was just very given.
Speaker 3: I thanks to do that.
Speaker 2: And he was in a very pivotal spot. I mean,
Speaker 2: not only had he been an actor and.
Speaker 1: Now was the host of the show, but he was
Speaker 1: also a director and so he know what he was
Speaker 1: talking about. And I guess, you know, it might have
Speaker 1: been a really interesting relationship for him to be involved
Speaker 1: with this wave of new actors and actresses that would
Speaker 1: soon be the bombs, if you will, in the sixties
Speaker 1: through the seventies.
Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely you know, he told me fascinating stories about
Speaker 4: what it was like shooting Warren Baby, and how insecure
Speaker 4: Warren Batty was. He was an episode called Visitors, and
Speaker 4: how he would come and watch the dailies every day
Speaker 4: to make sure that he was doing okay, you know,
Speaker 4: to see all the raw footage of.
Speaker 3: Their episode and stuff.
Speaker 4: You know, I just did, you know, really amazing stuff
Speaker 4: to learn about. You know, he told that story about
Speaker 4: Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra is shooting a war movie on
Speaker 4: the side of one hill.
Speaker 2: And him doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Newland was filming if.
Speaker 4: You see Sally on the other side, and Frank Sinatra
Speaker 4: sent a messenger over to him and said, you know,
Speaker 4: keep it down, John, we're trying to film a movie here.
Speaker 4: And John Nowlan said, this is this is unbelievable. So
Speaker 4: John Newland said he sent a message back to Frank
Speaker 4: Sinatra saying, tell Frank he can go f himself.
Speaker 3: Because we're shooting a TV.
Speaker 4: And so John Nolan went back to shooting, not thinking
Speaker 4: anything of it, and they said there was dead silence
Speaker 4: on his set and he turned around and Frank Sinatra
Speaker 4: was standing beside it behind him. You know, he was
Speaker 4: standing right behind him, and he said, I got your message, John,
Speaker 4: And he said Frank Snatra was wonderful.
Speaker 3: They hugged and everything was fine.
Speaker 4: But God, could you imagine.
Speaker 2: You don't say that to somebody from home, both in
Speaker 2: New Jersey?
Speaker 3: Absolutely not. I mean that takes a takes bald of
Speaker 3: brass to say that. Frank Sinatra, I think, uh.
Speaker 2: And then so why don't we just say it all? Now?
Speaker 2: I'm speaking with John Kenneth Muir. Uh, he's a.
Speaker 1: Joysy boy who he understands where that's at. You You
Speaker 1: grew up in Essex County, didn't you.
Speaker 3: I did, absolutely right.
Speaker 2: That's the county doesn't go to. I mean, there was
Speaker 2: no reason for me to go to Essex County.
Speaker 3: It's a really pretty county in New Jersey.
Speaker 1: Well, my friends were at Harrison so anyway, But be
Speaker 1: that as it may. We were talking about a TV
Speaker 1: horror show, and horror almost seems to be a little
Speaker 1: bit too jurassic a word. Would you cold suspense me?
Speaker 2: How did when you wrote the book, how did you
Speaker 2: term that genre of of a TV show?
Speaker 4: You know, it was very hard to do, you know,
Speaker 4: I wrote the book sort of in the heyday of
Speaker 4: shows like The X Files and Millennium and such. So
Speaker 4: you know, I was very much comparing how One Step
Speaker 4: Beyond treated these concepts and how newer shows did. So
Speaker 4: I did sort of lump it in with the horror,
Speaker 4: but I okay with you that it's really an imprecise.
Speaker 3: Comparison. You know, there is really no comparison.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's suspends thrills. You know, it is horror
Speaker 4: in a sense. There was one episode called Ordeal on
Speaker 4: Locus Street about this horrible thing upstairs.
Speaker 3: It was like a fish boy and stuff.
Speaker 4: So you know, occasionally it would go straight into horror,
Speaker 4: but it wasn't like what you would think of horror
Speaker 4: necessarily today.
Speaker 1: If that makes sense, Yeah it does, and honestly I
Speaker 1: would call it horror too, but you know, to me,
Speaker 1: it was just so much classier than what we call horror.
Speaker 4: Today, you know, right because today you know, you think
Speaker 4: a lot about the special effects. You know, say, there
Speaker 4: are a lot of remakes and things like that. You know,
Speaker 4: One Step Beyond was really sort of an original initiative,
Speaker 4: you know. There there had never been a show like
Speaker 4: Get on television before. And that's another thing that John
Speaker 4: Newlan told me.
Speaker 3: He said, I was on the.
Speaker 4: Set, you know, midway through the first season of One
Speaker 4: Step Beyond shooting and he was called on the telephone
Speaker 4: by Rod Serling, and Rod Serling asked to meet him
Speaker 4: in person, and John Newlan said, well, sure, M'd.
Speaker 3: Be glad to me.
Speaker 4: They went to a restaurant together in la and Rod
Speaker 4: Serling told him, he said, I just want you to
Speaker 4: know I'm not going to rip you off, he said,
Speaker 4: I'm doing a show called The Twilight Zone. He said,
Speaker 4: but it's not you know, it's not paranormal, and it's
Speaker 4: not about you know, evidence of the paranormal or you know,
Speaker 4: documenting the paranorm. It's just an anthology of fantasy, science
Speaker 4: fiction and horror. And that really meant a lot to
Speaker 4: John Nowlan because, like I said, One Step Beyond was
Speaker 4: one of the few shows like that on TV at
Speaker 4: the time. And he said to me, he said, that
Speaker 4: just proves what a class act Rod Serling was, is
Speaker 4: that he took me aside personally. We met and he said,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to rip you off, John, you know,
Speaker 4: instead of just letting The Twilight Zone premiere ten you know,
Speaker 4: ten months later and you know, boom, there it was
Speaker 4: and people would draw the comparison, so.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, you're right, he didn't. He wasn't
Speaker 1: expected to do that, but he did that, and that
Speaker 1: exudes class.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely and that's what John knew. I say, he's
Speaker 3: just a classy, classy guy.
Speaker 4: And you know, everything I read about Rod Serlings curly
Speaker 4: indicates that that was really the case. But you know,
Speaker 4: that was one of my favorite anecdotes too, because today
Speaker 4: twilight Zone is so popular, it's been remade so many times.
Speaker 4: It's you know, everyone knows what twilight Zone is. But
Speaker 4: you know, besides, you know, a couple of diehards like us.
Speaker 4: You know, people don't always remember how good One Step
Speaker 4: Beyond was, which makes me sad.
Speaker 1: And you had said to me, and I appreciate that
Speaker 1: you said that, and it makes sense, you know, One
Speaker 1: Step Beyond because it isn't remembered by too many folks
Speaker 1: because obviously you got to be a fossil like myself
Speaker 1: to have you know, been involved with it. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously my folks who watch it are no longer with us,
Speaker 1: so well that's left are those of us who were
Speaker 1: born you know, anywhere from what I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: mid forties. I guess you would call him the boomer generation.
Speaker 1: And and and I don't know how many of them are,
Speaker 1: you know, contact you and I look at the blog
Speaker 1: and the people who are who you know doing fact
Speaker 1: a post there. It does seem like some of them
Speaker 1: are older because they say they remember watching it, some
Speaker 1: have seen it in whatever DVD collections they get it on,
Speaker 1: or perhaps even some independent stations that might be running
Speaker 1: it in the wee small hours of the morning.
Speaker 4: Well, and that's you know, that's how I discovered one
Speaker 4: step beyond. I discovered it in syndication in the seventies
Speaker 4: and it sort of, you know, rocked me back on
Speaker 4: my psychic heels.
Speaker 3: You know, whoa what is you know?
Speaker 2: What is this?
Speaker 4: You know because I ended up seeing it. I was
Speaker 4: a young insomniac, you know, by the time I was
Speaker 4: in middle school. You know that this show would appear
Speaker 4: at two am and what you know, what is this?
Speaker 3: You know that this this is amazing? You know, it
Speaker 3: was so scary and seemed to, you know, just.
Speaker 4: Exude so much you know, creepiness and menace and and
Speaker 4: it seemed to be you know, literally transported out of.
Speaker 3: Some sort of nether world.
Speaker 4: You know, before my eyes, and that's how I discovered it.
Speaker 4: But you know, it very quickly moved out of syndication,
Speaker 4: I think by the eighties. And now, as you said,
Speaker 4: there you know many their ninety six episodes, but I
Speaker 4: think onlyde the sixty are actually available on DVD, and
Speaker 4: they're all you know, one step beyond its fall into
Speaker 4: the public domain. So these are all sorts of you know,
Speaker 4: they're not remastered things.
Speaker 3: These are old prints you know, that have.
Speaker 4: Been found at you know, local stations around the country.
Speaker 3: So you know, we don't have a really good you know.
Speaker 4: One step beyond collection, no definitive one step beyond collection,
Speaker 4: which is I think unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Well, and this is also bad news in a sense
Speaker 1: because it had had it not fallen out of public domain.
Speaker 1: The good news is some company would have gone ahead
Speaker 1: and restored them and really done a great job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it would have cost something, but you still would have
Speaker 1: had almost all of them preserved.
Speaker 2: That just didn't happen, did it.
Speaker 3: No, it didn't. It didn't.
Speaker 4: The if you look at some of the DVD collections,
Speaker 4: you can see where like the film ends abruptly in
Speaker 4: a scene. And I actually got to ask John Newlan
Speaker 4: a little bit about that because I was even watching
Speaker 4: old prints when I on video when I saw it,
Speaker 4: you know, when I was reviewing them all for the book,
Speaker 4: and I said, you know, this scene seemed abrupt? Was
Speaker 4: that you know with that because the film was damaged
Speaker 4: with how you shot it? And he said, oh no, no,
Speaker 4: he said, no, you know we did it right, you know,
Speaker 4: but the I guess the print have just become damaged
Speaker 4: and frayed, and you know some pieces are missing. You know,
Speaker 4: it's just it's unfortunate.
Speaker 1: All right now, I just want to I want to
Speaker 1: be fair about this. A couple of things, folks. John's
Speaker 1: coming back. He's going to be on the twenty seventh
Speaker 1: for the ten pm to midnight Eastern Time show that
Speaker 1: Adam Gollrightley's going to co host as well. We're calling
Speaker 1: at the Young Tamed Grass, you know a little hybrid
Speaker 1: of both our shows, The Untamed Dimensions and also Beyond
Speaker 1: the Grassy knowl. So he'll be uh, he'll be in
Speaker 1: on this. John's coming back to be with us for
Speaker 1: two hours. So if you get a chance, folks, they
Speaker 1: have to listen to this. He had a heads up take.
Speaker 2: A look with all he has to offer because we're
Speaker 2: goin to get into all the.
Speaker 1: Other books he's written, and you know, any and I
Speaker 1: would think John, would I be correct in saying this
Speaker 1: that we would welcome anecdotes from folks across whatever genera
Speaker 1: generational line as to you know, their favorite producers and shows,
Speaker 1: you know, like Wes Craven, you know the Fripp and
Speaker 1: aera stuff and all that.
Speaker 3: Absolutely know.
Speaker 4: I love to talk to the horror genre TV or
Speaker 4: film with with anyone who loves it.
Speaker 3: So I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: All right, And that's gonna happen Friday. And again, the
Speaker 1: website is John tannethmuor dot com. His books are all
Speaker 1: up there. John didn't I didn't follow through. But somebody
Speaker 1: is handling your publishing.
Speaker 2: Is that true?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: Yeah, McFarland is Mike Farland right here, Okay, Yes, that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 4: they're the ones who released the One Step Beyond book.
Speaker 2: That's right, all right? And you're okay because.
Speaker 1: You know Amazon and some of the other online booksellers,
Speaker 1: it gets a little strange with some of the authors,
Speaker 1: but in this situation, I mean, you're fine with that
Speaker 1: and going to McFarland.
Speaker 2: Is just right. With you.
Speaker 3: Is that is that great?
Speaker 4: They can go to mcfarlande or they can go to
Speaker 4: Amazon dot com.
Speaker 3: That's fine.
Speaker 4: All my books are are all right, Amazon or Barnes
Speaker 4: and Noble, you know, and any any web bookstore carries
Speaker 4: my books, and or they can go to the McFarland website.
Speaker 3: That's right all right.
Speaker 1: And again, folks, if you get a chance in between
Speaker 1: when you hear this on Monday and between well that
Speaker 1: those fourth days or so, you know, until John was
Speaker 1: back on Friday, you know, please by all means take
Speaker 1: a look around.
Speaker 2: There might be some of my you know, pitch your
Speaker 2: fancy for sure, and also.
Speaker 1: Come on with whatever you might have to recount about,
Speaker 1: you know, your days with getting scared, when getting scared
Speaker 1: was kind of fun.
Speaker 2: Anything else you.
Speaker 1: Want to hit, By the way, about the website so
Speaker 1: that I'm not remiss and telling folks the resources that.
Speaker 3: Are there, no, you know, I think you got it
Speaker 3: all you can.
Speaker 4: If you go to my website at www. John Kennethy
Speaker 4: or dot com, you can see pictures of all my books.
Speaker 4: There are links to my blog, and there's also a
Speaker 4: link to my internet TV series which is Black.
Speaker 3: And White Key.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 3: It's called the House.
Speaker 4: Between all right, you can see the whole scope of
Speaker 4: my work, from my website, from blogs to my internet show,
Speaker 4: to to picture and excerpts of my book.
Speaker 1: And if you don't mind, in this second half hour,
Speaker 1: would it be okay if we go into some of
Speaker 1: the shows that I ranked as my Letterman top ten.
Speaker 3: I would love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know you're being nice to me by saying
Speaker 1: my memory is so good. But at this stage of
Speaker 1: my life, I can probably remember what I did when
Speaker 1: I was two, but I can't.
Speaker 2: Tell you what I ate last night.
Speaker 1: But seriously, and you and I said this off Mike too,
Speaker 1: and that is this is an indication about when when
Speaker 1: you are when you're young, and I'm thinking, obviously it
Speaker 1: was eight, nine and ten.
Speaker 2: I mean that's the extent of it. I was no
Speaker 2: older than ten when.
Speaker 1: This show left the airwaves, and I remembered. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's seared into my brain, there's no two ways about it.
Speaker 1: I won't say that it was a nasty and ugly
Speaker 1: any kind of traumatization, but it has to be understood.
Speaker 1: You know when you were, when you're young, and your
Speaker 1: brain is an open book or whatever. Some of these
Speaker 1: experiences that you have that do definitely radically shake you up.
Speaker 1: Do you remember and you know, well, I'm looking at
Speaker 1: what what forty years later plus, and these were just
Speaker 1: off the top of my head.
Speaker 4: Well, I think that you know, things like that, I
Speaker 4: always say that they carry psychic weight, or they loom
Speaker 4: large on your brain. You know, your brain at that
Speaker 4: point is very impressionable, and this is often the first
Speaker 4: time you experience something of that nature, and so the
Speaker 4: you know, the weight of it is just amazing and
Speaker 4: you always remember it.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a I mean, I know I certainly
Speaker 3: feel like that about.
Speaker 4: Influences in my life.
Speaker 3: And it's funny sometimes.
Speaker 4: The good thing about One Step Beyond it's really a
Speaker 4: good show and it stands the test of time.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: I remember when I was a kid going to see
Speaker 4: a drive in movie called Legend of Boggy Creek.
Speaker 3: And it's a.
Speaker 2: Horrible movement, but you know it scared me when I
Speaker 2: was a kid.
Speaker 3: But you went a horrible movie.
Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you this. Did you drive to
Speaker 2: h did you drive to the drive it?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 3: Well I was. I was driven to the drive in
Speaker 3: with my folks.
Speaker 1: Oh no, because I was gonna say, if you drove
Speaker 1: and you probably had a girl with you, eat and
Speaker 1: give a damn what was on his screen.
Speaker 3: I was too young for that. I think that's I missed.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I can't remember too many driving movies I saw.
Speaker 1: But anyway, all right, the ones that I remember, and
Speaker 1: I think some of them are in the forefront because
Speaker 1: they seemed well, they definitely had a documented kind of support.
Speaker 1: And one of them, and that's one of the interviews
Speaker 1: that we talked about that gave credence to the show,
Speaker 1: the one I had listed first, and I'm not sure
Speaker 1: I'm going into the best of the least.
Speaker 2: I just did them. And that was a show that
Speaker 2: was about people having precognition about the sinking in World
Speaker 2: War Two of the HMS Hood and what Newland did.
Speaker 2: And I had asked you about this.
Speaker 1: They interviewed somebody who was supposed to be on that ship,
Speaker 1: and that turned out to be an actor who also
Speaker 1: made the rounds in those days, whom.
Speaker 2: You told me was Robin Hughes.
Speaker 3: Is that correct?
Speaker 4: That is correct, absolutely, So it was a British actor
Speaker 4: who was working in the sixties who actually had the
Speaker 4: experience that the episode was about you know, which is amazing.
Speaker 3: The episode was from the third of what.
Speaker 4: It aired on equal fourth, nineteen sixty one. It was
Speaker 4: called The Signal Received, and it's just like you said.
Speaker 4: It was about like precognition about the sinking of the Hood,
Speaker 4: and it followed three sailors in particular, and each one
Speaker 4: sort of had this experience, you know, about their deaths
Speaker 4: and the Hood. And one was like spiritboard divination, one
Speaker 4: was Claire Audio, and another I think was just straight
Speaker 4: old clairvoyance.
Speaker 3: But two were negative and one was positive.
Speaker 4: Two people knew they were going to die, and one
Speaker 4: guy said that he would I think he did. He
Speaker 4: was the spirit board guy said he'd lived a nice
Speaker 4: long life or something. And sure enough, like the episode ended,
Speaker 4: these three guys walking onto the Hood and the one
Speaker 4: guy gets pulled off. He got a transfer order and
Speaker 4: he lived a long and happy life, you know. And
Speaker 4: then fifteen hundred people, including those other two sailors you know,
Speaker 4: died when the Bismarck sunk the Hood nineteen forty one.
Speaker 4: And it's just what you said, is that they brought
Speaker 4: John Newlan, brought this actor on whose experience this was
Speaker 4: to to talk about the show again.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: I was just I was shocked at jury call up
Speaker 4: to you you picked that one off immediately, and that
Speaker 4: you remembered all the details of.
Speaker 2: It, and the use was kind of person who got
Speaker 2: picked off, wasn't he?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 2: Absolutely all right, now there is something related to that.
Speaker 1: You and I both went back around excuse me again,
Speaker 1: choking on water, and I got this little mixed up.
Speaker 2: But then you know, you clear it up for me
Speaker 2: because I remember this one too.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: Most people will be may have encountered this this story
Speaker 1: other places, but this is and I'm gonna throw this
Speaker 1: to you, this is the show they did on the titan.
Speaker 4: Now, Keith, this is my all time favorite episode of
Speaker 4: One Step Beyond, and it.
Speaker 3: Still drives me crazy.
Speaker 2: And what it is.
Speaker 4: It's about sort of the psychic web of happenings that
Speaker 4: surrounded the sinking of the Titanic in nineteen twelve. And
Speaker 4: one of the things I talked about was a Canadian
Speaker 4: minister who changed the hymn that night at his church
Speaker 4: for no reason, to pray for those in peril on
Speaker 4: the sea, you know, And then there are things like that,
Speaker 4: and you know, in fact, there was a professor at
Speaker 4: university of Virginia who had collected like nineteen reports of
Speaker 4: the paranormal all associated with the Titanic, and I don't know,
Speaker 4: maybe a handful of those were like precognition about people
Speaker 4: who were going to board the ship and were afraid
Speaker 4: of drowning or things like that. But yeah, and you know,
Speaker 4: that's what the episode is about, the sinking of the
Speaker 4: Titanic and this web of all these psychic phenomena phenomena
Speaker 4: around the thinking. But what absolutely floors me, and it
Speaker 4: gets me every time, is that John Nolan at the
Speaker 4: end of the episode walks to a bookcase and he
Speaker 4: pulls out a book and it's called Futility, written by
Speaker 4: a man named Morgan Robertson. It's a novel. It's a
Speaker 4: fictional story supposed The novel's plot is about the first
Speaker 4: voyage of the largest ocean liner ever built. On an
Speaker 4: April night, this fictitious ship strikes an iceberg, and because
Speaker 4: there aren't enough lifeboards lifeboats on the ship, over one
Speaker 4: thousand passengers die in freezing waters. Okay, the name of
Speaker 4: that ship in the novel was the titan The book
Speaker 4: itself was published in eighteen ninety.
Speaker 3: Eight, fourteen years before.
Speaker 4: The Titanic sinking. And I mean, that's just the tip
Speaker 4: of the iceberg.
Speaker 2: You know, you'll forgive it about the rotten plum, I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry, but let me just tell.
Speaker 3: You know some of the other similarities in Robertson's novel.
Speaker 4: Of eighteen ninety eight. The titan was seventy thousand tons,
Speaker 4: that's how much the ship weighed. The Titanic was sixty
Speaker 4: six thousand tons. The titan was eight hundred feet long,
Speaker 4: the Titanic eight hundred and eighty feet long. Both ships
Speaker 4: had a top sailing speed of twenty five knots. And
Speaker 4: the most bizarre thing is that both ships struck icebergs
Speaker 4: and sunk on a night in April.
Speaker 3: I mean, to me, that just gets me.
Speaker 4: Every time I did all this research onics, I thought
Speaker 4: he is making that up.
Speaker 3: I thought, there's no.
Speaker 4: Way that's true, and I followed a couple of false leads.
Speaker 4: But then I found it is true, and the book
Speaker 4: was actually republished I think maybe in nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 4: when that's when Titanic sort of nostalgia he t used
Speaker 4: that word was popular again with James Cameron films.
Speaker 3: All right, but I mean, this is actual true somebody wrote.
Speaker 4: A book that forecasts with all those details, the thinking
Speaker 4: of the Titanic. It was just called titan I mean,
Speaker 4: it's it really boggles the mind.
Speaker 2: I mean that that's a tough one to argue with.
Speaker 2: How did you know? You know?
Speaker 3: Right right?
Speaker 4: I mean you know one or two things like that,
Speaker 4: I say, coincidence. But you placed it in the same
Speaker 4: month with the same problem with lifeboats, with the details
Speaker 4: of the ship being so similar. I mean it, you know,
Speaker 4: it certainly raises questions.
Speaker 2: Do you know anything about and have you aught to say?
Speaker 3: It was Robertson, Yeah, Morgan Robertson was his name.
Speaker 2: Do you know anything about him?
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't. I don't know much about him.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I went back and said, I.
Speaker 4: Followed some false leads because there was some book I
Speaker 4: found in the eighties that had the wrong title for
Speaker 4: the book and had the wrong author. So I thought, okay,
Speaker 4: that's one thing against it. And then I went back
Speaker 4: to a Collier story from the late eighteen hundreds that
Speaker 4: was supposedly this story, and it was not. It was
Speaker 4: one called the Liner and the Iceberg, but it was
Speaker 4: about like an old trawler ship I think named the
Speaker 4: Amelia or something else. So like, none of the details
Speaker 4: were right. So I was thinking, Okay, this book didn't
Speaker 4: really exist, you know, John Nolan put me on. But
Speaker 4: then I found all the details and they were exactly
Speaker 4: as he said.
Speaker 3: But I don't know the biography of this author.
Speaker 2: Okay, you have no idea if he comes from the UK,
Speaker 2: do you he does come from the UK? Yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: we won't get into that, but we all talk from
Speaker 2: other time. Right.
Speaker 1: Secondly, well, I had written to you again on one
Speaker 1: that was based on fact it seems, and a story
Speaker 1: not necessarily unknown to a lot of folks, and that
Speaker 1: is Lincoln's dream of being assassinated and viewing his own
Speaker 1: funeral in the White House.
Speaker 3: Right right now.
Speaker 4: This was a one step beyond episode from nineteen sixty
Speaker 4: in the second season. It's called The Day the World Web,
Speaker 4: The Day the World Web, the Lincoln Story, and very
Speaker 4: much like the Titanic episode, it involved sort of all
Speaker 4: the psychic phenomena around the Lincoln assassination. For example, a
Speaker 4: printer in East Pennsylvania hammers out a headline in the episode,
Speaker 4: like hours before the assassination that reads Lincoln margret National tragedy.
Speaker 4: But it does focus on the very issue you remember,
Speaker 4: which is that Lincoln had recurring visions of his own
Speaker 4: death while he.
Speaker 3: Was in the White House.
Speaker 4: He described these dreams to members of his cabinet, So
Speaker 4: there is eyewitness testimony that he had those dreams, and
Speaker 4: one dream involved him awaking in the White House to
Speaker 4: sounds of weeping and he asked to Guard what's going on, said,
Speaker 4: the President has been killed.
Speaker 2: And that was just one.
Speaker 4: He had another dream early in his term where he
Speaker 4: saw two images of himself in the mirror. In a one,
Speaker 4: his face was completely normal. In the second, it had
Speaker 4: this sort of death like pallor across it, like he
Speaker 4: was looking at himself as a corpse. And his wife, Mary,
Speaker 4: who really believed in his dreams, said to him, she said,
Speaker 4: what this dream represents that you're going to be alive
Speaker 4: and healthy through your.
Speaker 3: First term, and you're going to be killed in your
Speaker 3: second term, or you're going to die.
Speaker 4: In your second term. I think that's probably one percent.
Speaker 4: I think she said you're going to be killed. I
Speaker 4: think said you're going to die in your second term.
Speaker 4: So it is documented fact that Lincoln did very much
Speaker 4: fear for his own death and had dreams of his
Speaker 4: death while he was in office. And that's another one
Speaker 4: of the great one step beyond the stories.
Speaker 3: I would say, no, it was again, it.
Speaker 2: Was well done.
Speaker 1: And this is just a quick plug for folks who
Speaker 1: want to realize just what Lincoln knew with regard to
Speaker 1: the enemies that surrounded him.
Speaker 2: There are two good books out there.
Speaker 1: One is called a Lincoln Conspiracy by think Boldinger, and
Speaker 1: there was another one called Dark Union by I think
Speaker 1: it is Ness and Gutteridge, and they will show you
Speaker 1: just exactly what he knew he was up against. His
Speaker 1: precognition may have been based a lot on what he
Speaker 1: rightly should have feared, right but.
Speaker 2: That's, you know, my little conspiracy political plug, and that's
Speaker 2: what the show is about.
Speaker 4: So I'll move Well, have you ever heard of the
Speaker 4: theory of retro synchronicity.
Speaker 1: Well, we might, we might have called it a bunch
Speaker 1: of other things on the agression all but ahead throw
Speaker 1: that out.
Speaker 4: Well. I came across as when I was researching the book,
Speaker 4: and I just wanted to name it because you know,
Speaker 4: of course people could say it's coincidence, like people always do.
Speaker 4: But the theory of retro synchronicity is that Lincoln and
Speaker 4: Kennedy are basically connected, and it's their path follow the
Speaker 4: same course. Lincoln was elected to Congress in eighteen forty seven, Kennedy.
Speaker 3: In nineteen forty seven.
Speaker 4: Each man was killed by a bullet to the head
Speaker 4: in the presence of their spouse. The boats were warned
Speaker 4: not to go on the trips that killed them, either
Speaker 4: to the theater or to Dallas and their assassins. Wilkes
Speaker 4: Booth was born in eighteen thirty nine. Lee Harvey Well
Speaker 4: in nineteen thirty nine, and then the name of kennedy secretary.
Speaker 3: Of course was Lincoln Lincoln.
Speaker 4: I don't know if there's anything to that, but something
Speaker 4: about that just fascinating me.
Speaker 3: I can't help but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there is there's even more to it, I would,
Speaker 1: I would say. But also sixty three was a pivotal
Speaker 1: year for both. I both definitely believe that Lincoln and
Speaker 1: Kennedy each knew the way things really, you know, what
Speaker 1: really runs the world, and there are handlers, and I
Speaker 1: think both of those presidents said, you know, I can't
Speaker 1: do this, and that was fatal for Lincoln.
Speaker 2: Obviously.
Speaker 1: It probably happened in and around visiting Gettysburg with Kennedy
Speaker 1: it happened beforehand. But of course in sixty three he
Speaker 1: was assassinated. Lincoln was assassinated sixty five. But both of
Speaker 1: those presidents were pretty much lightning rods at very critical
Speaker 1: times in our history. And yeah, and also I'm only
Speaker 1: going to throw this out to you.
Speaker 2: I'll be able to in a later show, but just
Speaker 2: you know, to tweak you a little bit.
Speaker 1: John, No, No, in the how should I say in
Speaker 1: the Classic Assassinator's Handbook, if you want to kill a
Speaker 1: head of state, the best way to do it, you know,
Speaker 1: in that protocol is a headshot. Okay, And if you
Speaker 1: take a look, you'll find that this, you know, look
Speaker 1: at or look at Robert RFK headshot. And I hate
Speaker 1: to say it, although Teddy's unassassinated, he's dealing with the
Speaker 1: cerebral problem right anyway.
Speaker 4: Well, maybe there's there's no connection. I had to bring
Speaker 4: up that retros incranctation.
Speaker 2: Oh no, not no, without a doubt. No, And it's
Speaker 2: you know, we don't believe in coincidence beyond the cress,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the other things I.
Speaker 1: Had asked you about. Well, then, also I thought this
Speaker 1: is probably the one that gave me the eb gbs
Speaker 1: the most. The first two were just real, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, it just was real convicting. But this one,
Speaker 1: this one spooked me out and they did it very well.
Speaker 2: And that was.
Speaker 1: Now here's how I wrote it to you, and I
Speaker 1: think you have that in your book, and that is
Speaker 1: the ghost of a giant. This took place in Mexico
Speaker 1: who you know, kills like what I thought was an
Speaker 1: abusive soldier, like you know, whooping up on the peasants.
Speaker 1: How close did I get with that?
Speaker 4: Well, again, you have amazing recall, because that's exactly what
Speaker 4: it is. The story you're talking about is called Persons Unknown,
Speaker 4: and it aired in One Step Beyond third season February seventh,
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty one, so you probably know where you were
Speaker 4: February seventh, ninety. It takes place in what is essentially
Speaker 4: sort of a haunted convent of sorts, one that was
Speaker 4: constructed over the sight of an Aztec shrine, and there's
Speaker 4: the myth that it reportedly houses the spirit of a
Speaker 4: deceased warrior, this giant that you mentioned, who was sacrificed
Speaker 4: by his king. But in the course of the story
Speaker 4: that we're watching on one Step beyond this giant appears
Speaker 4: and kills the sadistic soldiers exactly what you said, it's
Speaker 4: an abusive soldier and eyewitnessed. This is a man named
Speaker 4: doctor Adel atl who saw the ghost and reported basically
Speaker 4: a plaster mold of the dead man's face, yes, giant
Speaker 4: hand prints, not like he'd been you know, smothered. And
Speaker 4: and then I mean the topper, of course, is that
Speaker 4: the story ends with the actual doctor Adel, you know,
Speaker 4: joining John Newman on this dark stage for an interview
Speaker 4: about this occurrence. And you know he's not able to
Speaker 4: explain it, but he said, you know, he saw the ghost.
Speaker 4: It was right there with him me. It's an amazing story.
Speaker 4: And you know, as far as accuracy, what I dug
Speaker 4: up is that there is an ex convent and I
Speaker 4: don't know if I'm saying it right Lomrsad, Mexico City,
Speaker 4: and and there is a real doctor Adel who was
Speaker 4: a well renowned.
Speaker 3: Art critic and artists, and he did live in that convent.
Speaker 4: Now there had you know, I was not able to
Speaker 4: track down anybody who could send me to a mold
Speaker 4: of a man stay with the fingerprints, so that may
Speaker 4: have been embellishment, but It's amazing to me that you
Speaker 4: remember this one, because you know, whenever I write books
Speaker 4: about shows, I think of sort of signature episodes like
Speaker 4: you know, you know, the Twilight Zone Joey's remember, or
Speaker 4: the Star Treks she always remember. It's like there's like
Speaker 4: maybe a handful in every show, a ten one like
Speaker 4: you said, and it lights up room. Everyone remembers it.
Speaker 4: And you know, I wouldn't say this is like a
Speaker 4: signature one step beyond show, but you remembered it down
Speaker 4: to the last detail, which is pretty amazing information.
Speaker 2: Well if have you seen that that particular show at all?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I got to watch it for the book,
Speaker 4: you know, and it's funny. I consider like the Lincoln
Speaker 4: or the Titanic one like ooh, those pop out at me.
Speaker 4: But it's like, you know, out of ninety six, I
Speaker 4: didn't remember the details of this one until you brought
Speaker 4: it up. Well, it really really is a fascinating story.
Speaker 1: Well, they did it so spookily too, I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: well I can't even recount it, but I mean the
Speaker 1: fact that it was it was desolate.
Speaker 2: There's something invisible going on. Now.
Speaker 1: The only thing I'll last you because you know, I
Speaker 1: do have a historical edge to me? Did that have
Speaker 1: to what do we know that that took place in
Speaker 1: the early twentieth century or did it take on what
Speaker 1: was that supposedly before? The reason I'm saying is because
Speaker 1: you had Maximilian's troops. French troops that were in there
Speaker 1: were definitely not liked by the Mexican people.
Speaker 4: It was definitely in the twentieth cent all right, so
Speaker 4: that was you know, it was when doctor Addall was
Speaker 4: a younger man, so it would have probably been the
Speaker 4: early twentieth century.
Speaker 1: All right, that we've been around the Buirez, I would believe,
Speaker 1: or via no Pancho Villa that would have been.
Speaker 4: Well, you know what, It's interesting because people I don't
Speaker 4: know if I've said this before in the interview, but
Speaker 4: I get a lot of mail email about one step
Speaker 4: beyond with people asking me to help them corroborate their stories.
Speaker 4: And there are people who are interested in this episode
Speaker 4: who have tried very hard to get cooperation for this episode,
Speaker 4: corroboration for it. So you know, there are other people
Speaker 4: who are trying to track this down, like as we speak,
Speaker 4: all right.
Speaker 1: That's good, I mean, but if we're in the twentieth century.
Speaker 1: Then it was probably around VIA's time, you know, VA's time.
Speaker 1: It was not had nothing to do with the French invaders. Okay,
Speaker 1: no problem.
Speaker 4: You know again, I'm not one hundred percent sure of that.
Speaker 4: I just I'm pretty sure it's the twenty stenty just
Speaker 4: because of what demand's age.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and you're right, because a guy was on
Speaker 1: was on the tube in nineteen fifty nine sixties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would have had to have.
Speaker 4: It would have older man, you know, it could have
Speaker 4: been back, you know, forty years or so, but it
Speaker 4: would have had to have been I think twentieth century.
Speaker 2: No, you're right.
Speaker 1: I mean because in those times too, there were so
Speaker 1: many overthrows of governments because the all seemed to get
Speaker 1: the spotic on the new Mexican people and for that
Speaker 1: gentleman still to be alive in you know, in the
Speaker 1: late fifties going into the sixties. It was definitely around
Speaker 1: the time of the and whatever dictator put in whatever
Speaker 1: kind of you know, government. So that answers that that
Speaker 1: that you're right, all right, now we get another one.
Speaker 1: And there's something kind of serendipitous about this from if
Speaker 1: I if I got it right, I remember rocks falling
Speaker 1: from the sky in what I believe was Chico, California.
Speaker 4: That's right, yep, that's that is an event from an
Speaker 4: episode called Where Are They which aired December thirteenth, nineteen
Speaker 4: sixty and it told two stories. In the first one,
Speaker 4: in this town of Chico, California, a rock started falling
Speaker 4: from the sky and a man who called himself the
Speaker 4: Ghost took credit for it in March nineteen twenty two.
Speaker 4: And then but the crazy was the rocks felt the
Speaker 4: same time every day at three o'clock, every day, rocks
Speaker 4: fell from the sky, right, I mean, it's not in
Speaker 4: the ghost, the ghosts and the rock storms.
Speaker 3: Everything just disappeared.
Speaker 4: And in terms of authenticially this was one of my favorite.
Speaker 4: Thanks to research, history records that from July to November
Speaker 4: of nineteen twenty one, rocks indeed fell from the sky
Speaker 4: in Chico, California for now explicable reason. A lawman named J. A.
Speaker 3: Peck investigated the case, and the.
Speaker 4: San Francisco Examiner reported on the situation in March of
Speaker 4: nineteen twenty two. There was a scientist, his name was C. K. Studley,
Speaker 4: who reported his findings and let me just quote those
Speaker 4: findings if I can. Some of the rocks are so
Speaker 4: large that they could not have been thrown by any
Speaker 4: ordinary means. One of the rocks weighs sixteen ounces. They
Speaker 4: are not of meteoric origin, as seems to have been hinted,
Speaker 4: because two of them show signs of sementation, either natural
Speaker 4: or artificial, and no meteoric factor was ever connected to
Speaker 4: a cement factory.
Speaker 2: And I'll.
Speaker 4: What One step On was talking about here, you know,
Speaker 4: beyond this case was the idea of some sort of
Speaker 4: anomalous phenomenon, and there was another instance of rocks falling
Speaker 4: from the sky in Charleston, South Carolina, on September fourth,
Speaker 4: eighteen eighty six. So again, what's great about One step Beyond,
Speaker 4: whether you believe in the psychic or not, is that
Speaker 4: it accurately took what the reports were on that story
Speaker 4: from Chico and portrayed them really pretty accurately, which I
Speaker 4: think is you know, I think is very admirable for
Speaker 4: a genre show to take such pains to depict the
Speaker 4: story accurately.
Speaker 2: I agreed. Grammatically, yeah, no, agreed. But again, that's why
Speaker 2: we're talking about this because it you know, I'm one
Speaker 2: of the only people left I even have to talk.
Speaker 1: To some of my parts back up in Jersey whether
Speaker 1: they remember this kind of stuff, because I don't even
Speaker 1: know if we talked about this then, because.
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, we weren't other things and
Speaker 2: Psycho was out and all this other stuff. But I
Speaker 2: got to go back and ask about that. Well.
Speaker 1: Also, I'm going to say this, and I'm tweaked, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna throw this up because it's provocative.
Speaker 2: Folks.
Speaker 1: Take to look and see what latitude Chico, California is on,
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why when we get back together again,
Speaker 1: John on that Friday.
Speaker 4: Okay, that's something I have absolutely no idea about that.
Speaker 4: I have no idea what that's about.
Speaker 2: I'll breed deep the gathering glue. Okay, all right, now
Speaker 2: we go into one again.
Speaker 1: And this isn't far fetch from what we're hearing about
Speaker 1: today with all these alternative situations and cars running on water,
Speaker 1: on hydrogen, on McDonald's grease and all this stuff. Do
Speaker 1: you remember the one where somebody went into a patent
Speaker 1: office and had some kind of pillar or whatever that
Speaker 1: turned water into gasoline.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Now that was the second part actually of this
Speaker 4: episode where are they the same one? In the feature Chico,
Speaker 4: it was told two stories in that half hour only
Speaker 4: Macaeliscarre and it means amazing, and it was said in
Speaker 4: nineteen seventeen, and it features the disappearance of this genius who,
Speaker 4: just as you said, developed a chemical catalyst to turn
Speaker 4: water into fuel, and like it goes before Congress and
Speaker 4: it's all going to happen, It's going to be this revolution,
Speaker 4: and then he and his formula disappear suddenly, just like
Speaker 4: they were removed from the timeline or something.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I have asked and I have researched this. I have
Speaker 4: never found the event that this is about. And again
Speaker 4: I have to mention people email me. Someone emailed me
Speaker 4: just the last month about this particular case, and if
Speaker 4: anybody knows the specifics, I'd love to know it, because
Speaker 4: one step beyond didn't usually totally go off on a
Speaker 4: crazy tangent.
Speaker 3: Usually there was some I've proven.
Speaker 4: Some authentic story behind it. My problem, honestly, Keith, and
Speaker 4: was that I sort of came along with this book
Speaker 4: a little too late. I was able to talk to
Speaker 4: John Nowlan months literally months before he passed, in months
Speaker 4: maybe two or three months, but a lot of the
Speaker 4: writers of the show were already dead when I was interviewing.
Speaker 3: You know, I was not able to get a whole
Speaker 3: bunch of one.
Speaker 4: Step beyond interviews in the book because many of the
Speaker 4: writers and the producers were already gone, you know, some
Speaker 4: forty five years hence from the series or such.
Speaker 3: So I don't I don't have a trail to follow
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3: You know, I'd be curious to know. You know, what
Speaker 3: was the basis for this? I mean, have you heard anything.
Speaker 2: About that myself? No? What I did is though I
Speaker 2: told you that somebody had just emailed me.
Speaker 3: But you know, you there. I'm sorry. I think I
Speaker 3: lost you there, hold on, can you hear me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?
Speaker 3: Yeah? There we go, There we go. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Okay, No, With regard to the Chico, California situation, ironically,
Speaker 1: somebody just emailed me from Chico, California about something else,
Speaker 1: And I've just asked a gentleman whether or not he's
Speaker 1: ever heard anything in lore or whatever that this took place.
Speaker 1: In fact, it happened in Chico, So I was hoping
Speaker 1: he might respond to me. He obviously does not know
Speaker 1: that you and I were going to be speaking about this, right,
Speaker 1: but we still have till next Friday to do this
Speaker 1: a week from today while we're recordings on June twenty
Speaker 1: of folks, and a week from today we're going to
Speaker 1: do it two hour a live thing. Who knows what'll
Speaker 1: come in but that Chico situation. Oh, I'm sorry. You
Speaker 1: know we were talking about the gasoline thing. But but
Speaker 1: what's freaking me out? And you just said it was
Speaker 1: that this is a two part show. They were juxtapost
Speaker 1: that within two weeks of each.
Speaker 4: Other, right right, all that they were on the air
Speaker 4: the same week, it was like within the same half
Speaker 4: of Mackerel. Yeah, they were sort of vignettes, you know.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine those that those two do? Do it?
Speaker 2: And I didn't. I didn't even recognize them with a
Speaker 2: party and party?
Speaker 4: Oh really because when you when you live, Yeah, I
Speaker 4: see that you have them on separate lines.
Speaker 3: I thought, oh that's no, that's that's one episode.
Speaker 1: Brother, I'm telling you, as straight as a heart attack,
Speaker 1: I had no idea that they were a part one
Speaker 1: in part two. Holyrel.
Speaker 4: That that also, i'd say, is one of the signature
Speaker 4: shows that has raised the most questions. People are fascinated
Speaker 4: by the Chico thing because there are so there's so
Speaker 4: much documentation you can find out.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's stories in the San Francisco Examiner.
Speaker 4: You know, either you know there's a place to go,
Speaker 4: and I'm sure there's a place to go for the
Speaker 4: second story. But I don't know what I don't I don't,
Speaker 4: like I said, I don't have a trail.
Speaker 1: Well, that bit about turning water in the gasoline real quickly.
Speaker 1: One we had somebody down here in Florida who could
Speaker 1: run a car on water and he wound up dead
Speaker 1: under well, the mainstream news wouldn't call suspicious circumstances, but
Speaker 1: you know, and also I had done a show with
Speaker 1: somebody out of Canada who was working on alternative gasoline substances.
Speaker 1: And this is before we got hit with this last
Speaker 1: you know, oil of Bryce Hike, and he I got
Speaker 1: in touch with him because I was tracking down somebody
Speaker 1: by the name of Cagiano who had come up with
Speaker 1: one hundred mile per gallon corporretor and he has disappeared
Speaker 1: from the face of the earth. So this gentleman who
Speaker 1: went in I guess what in nineteen seventeen. You said, yep,
Speaker 1: had and went to a patent office.
Speaker 2: Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and he had this.
Speaker 1: But wasn't it the the way the shild left it
Speaker 1: was that he split before they came in and wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to him.
Speaker 4: Well, it was just like he disappeared, like it was
Speaker 4: like he just disappeared off the face of the planet,
Speaker 4: like he never existed at all, you know, which made
Speaker 4: me now again't remember I watched these you know, ten nine,
Speaker 4: eight years ago or so. But my feeling at the time,
Speaker 4: I know this is going to sound ridiculous, was that
Speaker 4: he was like a time traveler or something.
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't sound ridiculous, you know, but I.
Speaker 4: Mean that, you know that that was sort of the
Speaker 4: impression I was left from the story that he was
Speaker 4: somebody who maybe shouldn't have been there and shouldn't have
Speaker 4: been doing that, and so he was taken away. I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't you know, that was my impression at the time,
Speaker 4: and I may be misreading what my memory was from
Speaker 4: that time, but I remember stories like that fascinated me
Speaker 4: where they offered no explanation. Then I you know, you start,
Speaker 4: you know, your wheels start spinning and he start think.
Speaker 3: Well, what could have been the explanation?
Speaker 1: So all right, and then, like I said, this is
Speaker 1: not unusual though if you had been a straight up
Speaker 1: shooter of you don't mess with the oil oilg arcs.
Speaker 2: They don't like that.
Speaker 3: No, that's well, that's that's a fact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right now the one that all so, it
Speaker 2: was extremely eerie.
Speaker 1: But you know what, in certain other venues it is
Speaker 1: documented as having happened, and that was during World War One,
Speaker 1: a cessation of fighting, as those all throughout continental Europe
Speaker 1: claimed that they saw some light in the sky. And
Speaker 1: I'll just leave it there. How close am I am
Speaker 1: with with that one?
Speaker 3: John, Well you remember that one as well, and you
Speaker 3: must have.
Speaker 4: Been watching the show soon after premiere.
Speaker 3: You must have caught on quickly, because that was only
Speaker 3: the tenth episode. One tip be it really called the Vision.
Speaker 4: It aired March twenty fourth, nineteen fifty nine, and it
Speaker 4: told this story that occurred at twenty two, one hundred
Speaker 4: and thirty hours on November fourteenth, nineteen fifty nine, when
Speaker 4: French and German soldiers witnessed this glowing light in the
Speaker 4: sky and after seeing it, no one on the battlefield
Speaker 4: was willing to fight anymore, and then you know, this
Speaker 4: light had basically arrested all hostility. And you know, there's
Speaker 4: a talk about you know, this heavenly ray of light,
Speaker 4: and Newland explains in the episode that this light affected
Speaker 4: like a thousand men from the English Channel to Italy
Speaker 4: to Russia and if they could no longer fight that day,
Speaker 4: you know, again, here he gives you a trail, you're
Speaker 4: able to go back to that date and time. And
Speaker 4: I was not able to find anything on that date
Speaker 4: and time, which baffled me. But like you said, and
Speaker 4: this was my point. When I wrote the book one
Speaker 4: step beyond tried to portray things accurately. It didn't always
Speaker 4: stick to the letter of what happened in the story,
Speaker 4: because you have to get a story done in a
Speaker 4: half hour, you have to have interesting characters, you have
Speaker 4: to have dramatic license, so it will explore a concept accurately,
Speaker 4: even if it doesn't always report an incident accurately.
Speaker 3: And that's why I think what was happening.
Speaker 4: Here, because there have been many times throughout the history
Speaker 4: of warfare, particularly in the twentieth century, when people have
Speaker 4: told stories like this. One possible explanation is what a
Speaker 4: psychologist called an emotional chain reaction, which is often described
Speaker 4: by psychologists and witnessed in the Vietnam War, where human
Speaker 4: beings basically send out emotional signals to other human beings
Speaker 4: that they pick up on. And what the event that
Speaker 4: happened in Vietnam that was recorded was that soldiers were
Speaker 4: fighting and into the midst of the battlefield walked several monks.
Speaker 4: It wasn't a heavenly light, it was just monks. And
Speaker 4: in seeing the monks, one man stopped fighting, another man
Speaker 4: stopped fighting, an emotional chain reaction, and then more and
Speaker 4: more man stopped fighting til.
Speaker 3: Nobody was fighting.
Speaker 4: So I wonder if the idea of the vision is
Speaker 4: the same kind of story, the story of an emotional
Speaker 4: chain reaction, that perhaps it was just you know that
Speaker 4: it wasn't that the light was from heaven, but that
Speaker 4: that light triggered an emotional chain reaction, a psychic chain reaction,
Speaker 4: if you will, in the man fighting, and if somebody,
Speaker 4: I mean, I would love to hear if anybody has
Speaker 4: any information on that specific incident, because again he gave
Speaker 4: us a trail there, but I followed it and I
Speaker 4: didn't find any comment on that day at that time.
Speaker 2: So we're going to run a little bit over an
Speaker 2: how are you okay with that?
Speaker 4: I'm totally okay with that.
Speaker 2: If you are, no, it's.
Speaker 1: Okay because you know, again, like I said, I want
Speaker 1: to be generous with your time, but you know, this
Speaker 1: is such good stuff, and you know, perhaps i'm beat
Speaker 1: and time management.
Speaker 4: But oh well, listen, I'm loving it, okay, in a
Speaker 4: great time.
Speaker 3: So yeah, let's let's keep going.
Speaker 1: The other thing is too, and I me post this
Speaker 1: again come Christmas time. But one of the things I
Speaker 1: you know, the thing about World War One is comparatively
Speaker 1: it was much more brutal and emotionally I think distressing
Speaker 1: to the populations because they did not realize prior to
Speaker 1: this war how recognized and how much more efficient killing
Speaker 1: technology had gotten. And so even though World War Two
Speaker 1: was brutal also and much more widespread, still the whole
Speaker 1: shock to I think the collective.
Speaker 2: Human experience was extreme.
Speaker 1: And I'm just wondering if one believes and such and
Speaker 1: I happened too, whether or not there was some kind
Speaker 1: of intervention back then. It said, are you guys sure
Speaker 1: you want to go on this tack? And probably the
Speaker 1: answer was like, yeah, we got to and so okay
Speaker 1: with Drew and here we go, you know, with World
Speaker 1: War two and beyond. Just my guess, but I'll say
Speaker 1: this I might put back up on my website come
Speaker 1: Christmas time, the contents of a letter that was found
Speaker 1: from I think a British soldier finding somewhere in France
Speaker 1: or Germany about the day they called the truce from
Speaker 1: Christmas through New Year's and went out and played soccer
Speaker 1: with the Germans. Oh wow, and drank and ate with
Speaker 1: the Germans, and everybody's saying, what this really sucks?
Speaker 2: Why do we have to do this?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Can you imagine that? It really is moving? And I
Speaker 2: think I'll post it again.
Speaker 1: I think Angie, who is affiliated someone with the show
Speaker 1: who has a block spot, also ran that. But it
Speaker 1: was just amazing when you think about the fact that
Speaker 1: you know they could go out and do this and
Speaker 1: then okay, after New Year's it's like, okay, back to
Speaker 1: killing right.
Speaker 4: Well, it's heartbreaking, Andrea, Yes, it is what's happening today too.
Speaker 2: Yep, And you know it's anyway. But anyway, that was
Speaker 2: a very evocative and long lasting show as far as
Speaker 2: it's it's it's an endurance in my in my memory.
Speaker 1: Then this one, I don't remember a whole lot about,
Speaker 1: but boy, this one was really strange. All I remember
Speaker 1: at the end of the show with these streamers from
Speaker 1: like heaving like toilet paper enrolled that were dangling down
Speaker 1: to the earth. Can you help me out with this one,
Speaker 1: because boy, that one's really vague.
Speaker 4: Well, you know absolutely, you know again, it's kind of
Speaker 4: funny because you picked, you know, out of you sort
Speaker 4: of picked ten that you remembered, you know, and as
Speaker 4: I said, there were ninety six, so you picked, you know,
Speaker 4: roughly ten percent, and out of that you picked about
Speaker 4: one episode that was about UFOs and only did one
Speaker 4: show and their whole run about aliens and UFOs. Okay
Speaker 4: with that was the episode, and that's from the second season.
Speaker 4: It's the fifty first episode which aired April twelfth, nineteen
Speaker 4: sixty one, I think, entitled The Encounter. And yeah, like
Speaker 4: I said, the only show they ever devoted to UFOs.
Speaker 4: And it traumatizes again. A documented case that occurred in
Speaker 4: the San Fernando Valley in nineteen fifty three and during
Speaker 4: that time some kind of strange they called it Angel
Speaker 4: hair fell from and dissolving in plain view of many
Speaker 4: eyewitnesses and sort of like the rock fall in Chico.
Speaker 4: What we're talking about, here's some sort of anomalous phenomenon.
Speaker 4: And you know, I would just add that other angel
Speaker 4: hair sightings did occur in Porto, Ontario on September twenty sixth,
Speaker 4: nineteen forty eight.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if I can pronounce this, but
Speaker 3: it's a.
Speaker 4: Japanese town called Iowa Kei on October fourth, nineteen fifty seven.
Speaker 4: So it's interesting that there were three angel hair appearances
Speaker 4: between forty eight and fifty seven. And the one Step
Speaker 4: Beyond episode is describing the nineteen fifty three one in
Speaker 4: the San Fernando Valley. So yeah, I mean that that
Speaker 4: angel hair was a silky gossamer substance that seemed to
Speaker 4: melt very quickly that many people reported seeing. So again
Speaker 4: it was based on eyewitness testimony and you know, events
Speaker 4: that were happening in more than one location.
Speaker 2: Did it see anything?
Speaker 1: And again this is I'm trying to you know, you
Speaker 1: know rack my memory was it. I can remember a gentleman,
Speaker 1: a man who was like on some kind of little
Speaker 1: ridge and just like.
Speaker 2: Walking through this like what in the world is this?
Speaker 2: I thought he was a pilot. Is that true? Do
Speaker 2: you remember?
Speaker 4: Yeah, because what the episode was about, Encounter was about
Speaker 4: a pilot who was abducted, you know, ostensibly by aliens. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and then and then returned. But you know, you didn't
Speaker 4: see the aliens and there wasn't any.
Speaker 3: You know, overt reference to them exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: But I thought he had a fly boy, you know,
Speaker 2: leather jacket with their pilot, right, That's what I saw
Speaker 2: in my mind's eye.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm scaring me now.
Speaker 3: I'm getting off the phone now.
Speaker 1: And again, folks, we want to tell you what's going on.
Speaker 1: But this is John Kenneth's mirror.
Speaker 2: He I don't know. He can typify himself. I would
Speaker 2: say that he.
Speaker 1: Write he's a historian about horror movies and horror TV
Speaker 1: shows and that whole genre.
Speaker 2: And one of the ones, the first.
Speaker 1: One that drew me to him, was what he wrote
Speaker 1: all those many years ago about the show One Step
Speaker 1: Beyond Now on his website. There are numerous books, which
Speaker 1: none none of which are going to make anybody turn
Speaker 1: away because it's the stuff that we loved. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but you know that that was a dream
Speaker 1: and that was a time, and we just take that
Speaker 1: stuff up and again, John, anything you want to say
Speaker 1: about the website and the resources that are there, well,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: I always have jokingly said to my parents, you know,
Speaker 4: I want to make a living by writing about TV
Speaker 4: and film, and you know that that's what I ended
Speaker 4: up doing.
Speaker 3: But the things that fascinate me are these things, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean, if I'm to be brutally honest, the things
Speaker 4: that happened between you know, nineteen sixty and nineteen eighty
Speaker 4: in particular. I love the you know, very odd and
Speaker 4: luminous and creepy entertainments that came out of the sixties
Speaker 4: and seventies, and you know, so I'm very much devoted
Speaker 4: to that. But you can see I've done horror films
Speaker 4: of the seventies, horror films of the eighties, a book
Speaker 4: called Terror Television, which looks at all the horror shows
Speaker 4: from nineteen seventy to nineteen ninety nine. But you know,
Speaker 4: I'm just like you, I just love this material. It
Speaker 4: grabs the imagination, yeah it does.
Speaker 1: And I am so tempted right now, and this is
Speaker 1: not the time to do because we will have two
Speaker 1: hours in a few days to talk about a whole
Speaker 1: lot more.
Speaker 2: And Adam go Rightley, a good guy from out in.
Speaker 1: The coast, will chime in on this also because he
Speaker 1: deals with something like this. But actually, unfortunately the real
Speaker 1: terror that was brought by Manson.
Speaker 2: Culs and other things. But I mean, it's all there.
Speaker 1: But right now we're talking to John about his book
Speaker 1: and Analytical guide to Television's One Step Beyond in nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty nine and nineteen sixty one. And boy, I tell
Speaker 1: you what, pound for pound that show still look best. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, I love it all right, we're getting down
Speaker 1: to the end of it. But here's one that, like
Speaker 1: the Ghost of the Giant in that Mexican scenario, that
Speaker 1: one got me a little bit, you know, that was scary.
Speaker 1: All the ones, like I said, I was convicted by
Speaker 1: and I'm like, wow, that's weird. And they documented it,
Speaker 1: so things do go bump in the night. This is
Speaker 1: another one that I thought was more distressing than anything else.
Speaker 1: And all I remember is that somebody was possessed by
Speaker 1: a portrait. It was covered up because of the problem,
Speaker 1: but when the person died and the portrait was uncovered
Speaker 1: that the portrait had somewhat aged or almost like a
Speaker 1: Dorian gray thing with the person that was possessed by
Speaker 1: the painting.
Speaker 2: Can you set that straight?
Speaker 4: You know, I think this is the only place from
Speaker 4: when there were a couple episodes of One Step Beyond
Speaker 4: about portraits and such, and it sounds, you know, I'm
Speaker 4: not one hundred percent I was sure which one that one,
Speaker 4: but it sounds a little bit like this one called
Speaker 4: Image of Death, which aired in nineteen fifty nine.
Speaker 3: Actually again, it.
Speaker 4: Was an early episode of the show, and it took
Speaker 4: place in France in eighteen ninety two. It was about
Speaker 4: this woman who was sort of a common woman and
Speaker 4: she killed a nobleman's wife.
Speaker 3: She poisoned her.
Speaker 4: And she became his wife. But she became increasingly paranoid
Speaker 4: about the fact that the place where her portrait had
Speaker 4: been hanging there was this stain coming up through it,
Speaker 4: and that like she began to see that it was
Speaker 4: the shape of skull or something like that, and like
Speaker 4: she just became increasingly deranged by what was there where
Speaker 4: her the woman she had succeeded where her portrait had
Speaker 4: been it just came out.
Speaker 3: But this this skull came there.
Speaker 4: Eventually she drove her herself crazy and died. Now that
Speaker 4: doesn't sound exactly like the one you're saying. I'm wondering
Speaker 4: if I missed the boat on that one. I'm not
Speaker 4: one hundred percent sure doing Okay, all right.
Speaker 2: The deal with what you were just talking about.
Speaker 1: I do remember that that she started to rub out
Speaker 1: the stain and you know, and it's hard to take
Speaker 1: on the features of.
Speaker 2: A face and real quick. One of the things that
Speaker 2: reminded me of that show.
Speaker 1: Although now that song is like so many years gone,
Speaker 1: I means thirty years and that was when TENSEC did
Speaker 1: a song called I'm Not in Love. He says he
Speaker 1: hangs a picture up because it hides a nasty stain
Speaker 1: that's lying there. And of course that's what happened I
Speaker 1: think in that show, wasn't it that there was a
Speaker 1: photo over this spot that sorted to take.
Speaker 2: On some kind of countenance. Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 4: It sounds like that song could have been written about
Speaker 4: imship death because it was. It was the portrait of
Speaker 4: the dead wife and Andrew was coming up that skull. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so all right, sounds exactly like it. That's funny, all right.
Speaker 1: Well, you know who knows. But I mean, like I said,
Speaker 1: there are no coincidences on the Chriss you know. Anyway,
Speaker 1: next up if we could, And that's another thing I remember,
Speaker 1: and that is some kind of phantom jockey that won
Speaker 1: a race.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: This was an episode from June of nineteen fifty nine
Speaker 4: called front Runner, and it was the story of a
Speaker 4: jockey's apparition, a man who was wrong. A jockey comes
Speaker 4: back from the dead and basically denies another jockey his victory,
Speaker 4: and then they find out like that jockey the ghost
Speaker 4: had died like a day earlier or something like that,
Speaker 4: so he really was dead when he won the race. Now,
Speaker 4: I found no evidence of that particular event, but I
Speaker 4: did run across a horse racing story, which I think
Speaker 4: is sort of indicative of how One Step Beyond does things.
Speaker 4: That it takes a certain world like horse racing, and
Speaker 4: then we'll do a story like this and the details
Speaker 4: of the story aren't always absolutely accurate what the concepts are.
Speaker 4: And this story un quoting, it's about the owner of
Speaker 4: a horse had a dream in which he saw his
Speaker 4: own horse winning the Melbourne Cup in two weeks. But
Speaker 4: there was something else in that dream. His jockey in
Speaker 4: the dream was wearing a black armband. So the owner
Speaker 4: everybody he knew about the dream, and and they all
Speaker 4: testified to the fact that he told them about this dream.
Speaker 4: It was well documented. Everyone knew about it. So flash
Speaker 4: forward to two weeks later. The owner's horse did win
Speaker 4: the Melbourne Cup and the jockey did wear an armband.
Speaker 4: But do you want to know why this is crazy?
Speaker 4: He was mourning the owner's death, who had passed away
Speaker 4: in the intervening two weeks since he had the dream
Speaker 4: and told everyone about it. So the black armband the
Speaker 4: owner imagined was for his own death zone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not for whom the bill tolls.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 4: I mean that is just the class like one step beyond.
Speaker 4: I mean that, you know, that's the stuff that you know,
Speaker 4: you don't want to think about the mill the night,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now, this one pretty much has been dismissed. And
Speaker 1: the ones that I picked out I think also it
Speaker 1: would seem from the pattern that I've created, have been
Speaker 1: those that seem to have some kind of basis in fact.
Speaker 4: Yeah, those seem to have been ones that really resonated
Speaker 4: with you. I noticed that when I went through that again,
Speaker 4: the ten you selected out of the ninety six were
Speaker 4: ones that seemed to be like the most true to life,
Speaker 4: real life where they had witnesses, where they had documentation.
Speaker 4: And you know, it's stunning to me that those are
Speaker 4: the ones you remember, because that must mean that even
Speaker 4: when you were a very young man, you were hooked
Speaker 4: into that kind of idea that you know that you
Speaker 4: wanted it to be real, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Well, and also that that indeed things do go bumping
Speaker 2: the night right right, you know, And then.
Speaker 3: You know, here's the evidence.
Speaker 4: You know that you know, even back then you were
Speaker 4: looking to see if it was real and looking for
Speaker 4: that evidence. So that that that you know that probably
Speaker 4: the after psychology keeper and then.
Speaker 2: We don't want to talk about that right now, do we. Well,
Speaker 2: and here's another one.
Speaker 1: And you did state before we got on that this
Speaker 1: was the week the week wink and that is and
Speaker 1: it it seem such that somebody who's playing some kind
Speaker 1: of game, I don't know what game this would be,
Speaker 1: who took on the the I guess the familiar spirit
Speaker 1: if you would, of of the object he was in
Speaker 1: the game. Uh, And you know, I mean, you think
Speaker 1: folks about you know, playing board games and stuff.
Speaker 2: So I should take on a.
Speaker 1: Personage or whatever with somebody who suddenly turned into what
Speaker 1: I called a big game cat. And you did nail
Speaker 1: this one. And you think this one is a little
Speaker 1: bit you know out there too, right, yeah, I do.
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny.
Speaker 4: You remember it exactly right. It was a big game cat.
Speaker 4: I think it was a tiger. It was a story
Speaker 4: from January nineteen January nineteen, nineteen sixty. It was entitled
Speaker 4: Forest of the Night for that poet, that poem by
Speaker 4: William Blake, you know, Tiger Tiger Burning, And it's about
Speaker 4: a hunter who plays a game and it's a Chinese
Speaker 4: a cult game called Confucius's Book of Changes. So that's
Speaker 4: the game they were playing. And one hunter's icon is
Speaker 4: that of a tiger. And I found like a lot
Speaker 4: of really great literary references in the episode to like
Speaker 4: Rudyrid kid blaying and William Blake, right, And you know,
Speaker 4: I looked into the Book of Changes, which is considered
Speaker 4: a work of divination and it's been often mistranslated. And
Speaker 4: Confucius did believe in the world of spirits. But I
Speaker 4: can't find anything that ties that to any event, any
Speaker 4: sort of paranormal event where somebody takes on you know
Speaker 4: that that hear into becomes a tiger and sort of
Speaker 4: runs wild, which is what the theme of the episode was.
Speaker 4: So yeah that, I mean, you know, that was one
Speaker 4: that was sort of more overtly fictional, but it's also
Speaker 4: a very memorable episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah it was.
Speaker 1: And the guy who was the lead character in that
Speaker 1: was kind of like a smallish, you know, schlumpy guy
Speaker 1: you could smack around, you know, and then you can think, well,
Speaker 1: this is you know, you could see you know in
Speaker 1: the characters, you know, thinking that heres his chance to
Speaker 1: be something.
Speaker 3: Feared, you know, right.
Speaker 1: And that's another guy who has who appeared in more
Speaker 1: than one one step beyond episode.
Speaker 2: I know he did. And he also made the rounds
Speaker 2: again in the fifties TV series Let Me.
Speaker 3: See, I Think Fair.
Speaker 4: I'm I'm an dig through the index of my boat,
Speaker 4: can see if I find out who that guy.
Speaker 2: I bet you he has somewhat of an Irish surname
Speaker 2: like Shawn to see is something like that?
Speaker 4: Going to page one twenty here first of the nine
Speaker 4: let me see h.
Speaker 2: We have.
Speaker 4: Ted's icons out of a tiger and Ted was Alfred
Speaker 4: Ryder and he was playing a character named Ted Ted Dolliver.
Speaker 2: H So that's a gentleman rider.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Alfred Ryder r y d Er.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: I've been of people put in a search engine on IMDb.
Speaker 2: They'll come up with a whole bunch of stuff. He
Speaker 2: did in the fifty sixty TV Well, I.
Speaker 3: Was going to tell you, you know, because I'm a
Speaker 3: crazy fan of this stuff.
Speaker 4: He was in a Star Trek episode called the Man Trap,
Speaker 4: and he was in an Invader episode but.
Speaker 3: I can't remember the title. Love it?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, you're right.
Speaker 3: He was in a lot definitely.
Speaker 2: All right. Now, this one again I got as I
Speaker 2: thought back to it, you know, I gained a little
Speaker 2: more memory about it, and you can email it.
Speaker 1: You're saying, well, a pens something, because this is what happened.
Speaker 1: It was a woman who was dead who saved her son.
Speaker 4: Now this is another This is actually one of my
Speaker 4: favorite episodes in One Step Down two. It's titled Epilogue,
Speaker 4: and it was only the sixth episode of the series.
Speaker 3: Again, you must have really started watching the show fairly early.
Speaker 4: This was February twenty fourth, nineteen fifty nine, so six
Speaker 4: weeks then you were watching. Involved in this was a
Speaker 4: woman named Helen and her little boy Stevie, and together
Speaker 4: they became trapped in a mind during a cave in.
Speaker 4: The mother Helen died in the rock ball, but her
Speaker 4: son Stevie was alive. So the crisis apparition of Helen
Speaker 4: appeared to her alcoholic husband, Karl Archer was his name,
Speaker 4: imploring him to save their son. But the problem is,
Speaker 4: you know, this was attention of the episode. Carl is
Speaker 4: an alcoholic, so a psychiatrist doesn't believe him. His psychiatrist
Speaker 4: was played by William Shaler, another one of those great
Speaker 4: faces of you know sixties in elevasion and film. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean it's the story of a crisis apparition, a
Speaker 4: manifestation of someone at or near the time of death,
Speaker 4: and in most cases the person who sees the apparition
Speaker 4: isn't aware that the real person is dead. So again,
Speaker 4: this wasn't like built on a specific incident, but it
Speaker 4: like accurately portrayed what the literature was on the idea
Speaker 4: of a crisis apparition. You know, it got every element
Speaker 4: of the story, but it wasn't actually based on you know,
Speaker 4: some specific happening, and we talked about this when we
Speaker 4: talked a little earlier. But the woman was the created
Speaker 4: apparition was Helen was played by Julie Adams, who was
Speaker 4: the starlet of Creature from The Black You I think,
Speaker 4: a movie we both love.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And again, I mean she was a very
Speaker 1: good looking woman, you know, you know again in black
Speaker 1: and white. I mean it looked like she had rown
Speaker 1: hair or whatever. But she appeared in so many things
Speaker 1: like seventy seven Sunset Strip and all this other stuff,
Speaker 1: and she was in that particular segment and I can
Speaker 1: still see her, you know, I can still.
Speaker 2: See her in just certain frames of that show.
Speaker 1: And like I said, that was a hard one for
Speaker 1: me to recall because I had written something to you
Speaker 1: and then I changed and they said no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is what it is. And I can still see
Speaker 1: her an address and all that stuff. And man, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean I almost thought too, let me say this,
Speaker 1: you I thought she lifted a car off him, but
Speaker 1: it was actually she got him out from underneath rocks.
Speaker 3: I think. So now again, remember I'll watch the episode.
Speaker 2: That's all right.
Speaker 4: That's where I gleaned from my notes. Although that sounds
Speaker 4: awfully familiar to you know. There was another episode of
Speaker 4: One Tip Beyond that might be a called Emergency now
Speaker 4: like it was just you know, it's called twelve Hours
Speaker 4: to Live about a guy, a husband who was in
Speaker 4: a car that went off a cliff and like they
Speaker 4: had to get him out of the car, you know,
Speaker 4: and that one might be the one you're thinking about
Speaker 4: with the car again.
Speaker 1: And listen, I really appreciate your patience. I was hanging
Speaker 1: with me on this and a lot of this is,
Speaker 1: as folks should know, is being done, you know, extemporaneously,
Speaker 1: because that's the way we wanted it. And I don't
Speaker 1: know what it says about my malform brain, but it does.
Speaker 2: It's something.
Speaker 4: But these things are in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, episodes are in there.
Speaker 1: And you know, I have a conspiracy site and I
Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of people say, well, let's
Speaker 1: you know, it's no, it's not theory, folks. The thing is, yeah,
Speaker 1: there was something in my lifetime where I wanted to
Speaker 1: take a look and actually say, look, something's not right here.
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of things in my life that
Speaker 1: I've encountered and it doesn't job with what we've been
Speaker 1: told and that's not the thrust of the show. But
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, for a lot of people who've been
Speaker 1: listening to this show for low these six years are
Speaker 1: now saying, so this is where you got your roots.
Speaker 2: I'm busy.
Speaker 4: Well, it's fascinating if you think about it. I mean really,
Speaker 4: I mean, because obviously what this did was it's you know,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of validation and legitimacy in one step
Speaker 4: beyond for these things. You know, it's not saying this
Speaker 4: is hokum. It's not saying, you know, this is crazy.
Speaker 4: What it's saying is that this is a science we
Speaker 4: don't yet understanding.
Speaker 3: Look, you know, prove it.
Speaker 4: We cannot just prove it. We cannot.
Speaker 3: But here we're going to chronicle it, and we're going
Speaker 3: to chronicle it as.
Speaker 4: Accurately as we can with the knowledge we have today.
Speaker 4: And I mean, I think that's to me, that's something
Speaker 4: that is, you know, just extremely fascinating. And I can
Speaker 4: see why that would, you know, be something that would
Speaker 4: would trigger your mind into thinking that way, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, it was a very open minded show. You know.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sorry that.
Speaker 2: John has a family and you just heard from one.
Speaker 3: Of the right defend two year old boy Joel.
Speaker 2: All right, you have two children.
Speaker 3: I just have I just have one son.
Speaker 4: He's two years Well, he'll be two years old in October.
Speaker 4: He's one of the lights of my life.
Speaker 2: With what long? Okay, Well, I just had a premonition,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have a girl next.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: We want we want to have another cut child, and
Speaker 4: we really want a girl. So I hope that both
Speaker 4: here we go. All right, all right, I'm gonna be
Speaker 4: checking back in with you in about six.
Speaker 2: Eight nine months.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: One other thing, and this is really sketchy, and this
Speaker 2: the last one I'll pop on you.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And that was there was some show where I remember
Speaker 1: Newman talking about by location, but I cannot remember the show,
Speaker 1: and that would be involved with somebody who was in
Speaker 1: two places at the same time. Where I do remember
Speaker 1: it is wrapped after the fact, which I felt very compelling.
Speaker 1: I do not remember the fodder of, you know, the
Speaker 1: story itself. Did you come up with anything about to
Speaker 1: buy a location?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, One step Beyond did a couple episodes
Speaker 4: just sort of orbited around the idea of location. So
Speaker 4: I came across two one is called the Return of
Speaker 4: Mitchell Campion, and that's one you might more accurately think
Speaker 4: of as an out of body experience, I mean, which
Speaker 4: is technically by location, because the body seems to be
Speaker 4: in two places at once. That's where somebody's undergoing surgery
Speaker 4: and also sort of has you know, goes off and
Speaker 4: has like a romantic affair on an island somewhere, but
Speaker 4: they're actually in surgery.
Speaker 3: The epistection might be talking about his justice.
Speaker 4: You know a third season episode in which a man
Speaker 4: falls asleep in church and it's seen there by all
Speaker 4: the townspeople, but at the same time that he's asleep,
Speaker 4: he's actually across town committing a murder. And you know,
Speaker 4: it's funny because the point of the story is actually
Speaker 4: more legal than parapsychological in this case, like you know,
Speaker 4: he gets like testing Western law, Like, Okay, we know
Speaker 4: this guy, he's confessed to murder, we know he's committed murder,
Speaker 4: but everybody in town saw him in the church at
Speaker 4: the time the murder was committed, so it's like testing
Speaker 4: Western law. And there actually a couple of episodes of
Speaker 4: One Step Beyond that did that, and you know, again,
Speaker 4: I just have to go back and say, I think
Speaker 4: that was very four word thinking, because again, the idea
Speaker 4: of one step beyond is that we're chronicling this thing
Speaker 4: that we don't really have good science for, but someday
Speaker 4: we will have the science for, and someday we will
Speaker 4: be able to explain these things. And so what it
Speaker 4: was saying is that, you know what if this goes
Speaker 4: into a legal venue, you know what happens then, So
Speaker 4: it was really a speculating like, you know what what
Speaker 4: could happen? You know, if you know somebody who by located,
Speaker 4: you know, was accused of murder, could you prove that
Speaker 4: in court? Which I think was a fascinating idea and
Speaker 4: well ahead of his son. So yeah, yeah, that was
Speaker 4: I think I think you were probably thinking of justice,
Speaker 4: but it might have been Mitchell Campion and real quick.
Speaker 1: And you have to speak to this because I know
Speaker 1: I didn't give you a heads up on that. But
Speaker 1: when we were talking about the Phantom Jockey, then you know,
Speaker 1: again these things are just emerging, which I think is
Speaker 1: a pretty cool process and I thank you for being
Speaker 1: involved in that. But there was one where there was
Speaker 1: a boxer also that got involved with finding some ghosts.
Speaker 1: There was a ghost in this stands I think was
Speaker 1: during World War two Britain. Does that ring a bell
Speaker 1: at all?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Good lord, you were you are really good?
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm gonna tell you is that Charles Bronson.
Speaker 2: Was in that episode How to Be a Boxer?
Speaker 3: Right, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 4: Let me let me just I'm gonna check my inn.
Speaker 2: That's okay. It was a ghost of somebody and he
Speaker 2: saw him in I mean, that's what's coming back.
Speaker 4: He saw him in this It's called The Last Round
Speaker 4: January tenth, nineteen sixty one, and this is what I
Speaker 4: wrote about it in the book I Slightly Past his Prime.
Speaker 4: Boxer living in England during World War Two, encounters the
Speaker 4: ghost of another boxer, a former a famous former middleweight
Speaker 4: champion named Patty, who now appears only two fighters about
Speaker 4: to die in their ring. Although Patty's appearance is thought
Speaker 4: to be a hoax, they take a twit strange twist
Speaker 4: when four people distinctly see.
Speaker 3: Patty sitting in the back row of the arena.
Speaker 4: You remember that one too, Yeah, that's called the Last
Speaker 4: Round and it was the ghost Patty. I'm not sure
Speaker 4: who played him, but was it Charles Bronson was the
Speaker 4: guy who saw him was the boxer who saw him.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1: And that one, you you know, was plucked out of
Speaker 1: center because of what you say spoke about with the
Speaker 1: Famom jockey. That one was just birth by itself, and
Speaker 1: there's others out there. The only thing I will say
Speaker 1: to you is that in the late eighties there were
Speaker 1: some one Step Beyon shows that were just being broadcasted
Speaker 1: by an independent station.
Speaker 2: And there were some, and they kept rerunning them.
Speaker 1: But I mean, that's the only goose I would have
Speaker 1: gotten with what I remembered from fifty nine to sixty one.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting from what you said, how many of
Speaker 1: those remembrances of mine were from fifty nine, sixty and
Speaker 1: sixty one. As I got older also, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, right, and got more cerebrally perhaps developed.
Speaker 2: We hope not always the case.
Speaker 1: But you know, John, I gotta thank you so much
Speaker 1: for you know, just you know, dealing with me in
Speaker 1: this whole situation, but also because I was glad I
Speaker 1: found somebody who could harken back in time to a show.
Speaker 1: I still think that, like I said, was a p
Speaker 1: probably the best there ever was on TV.
Speaker 3: Well, listen I have totally enjoyed this. I mean, this
Speaker 3: has been like a memory lane for me.
Speaker 4: I have to say that, you know, it's been a
Speaker 4: delight talking with you, and also that it's just really
Speaker 4: nice to revisit one step beyond. I probably had more
Speaker 4: fun writing that book than any other book I did,
Speaker 4: because it took me out of my daily routine.
Speaker 3: You know, I wasn't just writing.
Speaker 4: About camera and goals. I wasn't, you know, I got
Speaker 4: to do this other thing, which is what I decided
Speaker 4: when I started writing the book that if John Newland
Speaker 4: went to all the trouble to try to showcase these ideas,
Speaker 4: these paranormal ideas accurately, then I, as a writer, had
Speaker 4: to take the trouble to actually try to determine if
Speaker 4: he succeeded or not. So I got to research psychic
Speaker 4: phenomena for this book, which is you know, not you know,
Speaker 4: that's not what I usually do every day. You know,
Speaker 4: I write you know, treaties on you know, Star Wars,
Speaker 4: and you know, you know what I'm saying. It's like,
Speaker 4: So it was it was a fascinating thing for me
Speaker 4: to be able to talk about the paranormal and to
Speaker 4: research the paranormal and even more of a thrill then
Speaker 4: for me to be able to go back today with
Speaker 4: you and and talk about some of the things that
Speaker 4: I found.
Speaker 1: All right, And folks, also remember you'll be able to
Speaker 1: access the transcript of John Mure's conversation with John Newland,
Speaker 1: which is priceless. Also, and for you folks who listen
Speaker 1: to the show, who gets popped up in this but
Speaker 1: boohrick And that's another whole interesting situation. So by all means,
Speaker 1: go to that side, take a look at that, and
Speaker 1: also all the books that he is out there. Because John,
Speaker 1: you'll be back on Friday the twenty seventh, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk. We're gonna unleash the hounds and talk about
Speaker 1: the whole nine yards of wonderful you know, looney horror movies,
Speaker 1: horror shows and local venues, the whole nine yards.
Speaker 2: Is that correct?
Speaker 3: That sounds great?
Speaker 2: Boy? Yeah, that's it. There's no more of a fitting
Speaker 2: venue than it would be for a late Friday night.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 2: I can't wait.
Speaker 1: All right, listen, John, thanks a lot again, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot also to your family for holding wraps.
Speaker 2: Down on the young son. And you're gonna have a
Speaker 2: daughter and don't worry about it.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, kid, this with a laugh.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Well, it ain't over yet and we'll see
Speaker 2: you in a couple of days.
Speaker 3: Soun's good.
Speaker 2: God bless you. I have a safe weekend.
Speaker 3: Bro, God bless you too. That was great. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Bye okay, bye bye