Speaker 1: And welcome, Welcome, welcome, woman and all to the Big Podcast.
Speaker 1: It is Monday. Today is the fifteenth day of September,
Speaker 1: year of Our Lord twenty twenty five. My name is
Speaker 1: Tom Sullivan, and Nan alive. A very busy week ahead.
Speaker 1: We've got the guy who was accused of shooting Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 1: He's going to be in court tomorrow as they read
Speaker 1: him the charges. On Wednesday, we get the Federal Reserve
Speaker 1: there meeting Tuesday and Wednesday and Wednesday, and we will
Speaker 1: find out why they are going to do about interest rates.
Speaker 1: And the President's saying I hope there's a big cut.
Speaker 1: I know he does, which also gets kind of interesting
Speaker 1: because on the Fed before we get into the meat
Speaker 1: of the program today, Lisa Cook, she's the Fed governor
Speaker 1: that Bill Poulte, the head of Finance Authority, said, committed
Speaker 1: forgery on her applications for mortgages. It's now coming out
Speaker 1: by the judge over since then has said no, you
Speaker 1: can't fire her, but we'll see. I'll come back to this.
Speaker 1: We'll see if a court rules for or against her
Speaker 1: in the next two days before she actually tends a
Speaker 1: meeting tomorrow. But there's now a question about the mortgage
Speaker 1: documents and did she really say that she had multiple
Speaker 1: homes that were her primary residents. There's other information coming
Speaker 1: out showing that she said no, it's the second home,
Speaker 1: and so the facts still need to be adjudicated first.
Speaker 1: But that's the FED story. So it's a busy week
Speaker 1: this week, and the funeral for Charlie Kirk will be
Speaker 1: next weekend in Arizona, so that will be leading up
Speaker 1: to all of that and all of the uncovering of
Speaker 1: the investigation and everything else. I mentioned to you on
Speaker 1: Friday that I was holding my head about Governor Cox,
Speaker 1: the governor of Utah basically shoved all of the law
Speaker 1: enforcement people aside so that he could have the microphone
Speaker 1: and get the all the cameras pointed on him. And
Speaker 1: it just reminds me of politicians in a time of
Speaker 1: school shootings or the death of Charlie kirkwa I wish
Speaker 1: they would I wish they would just disappear and let
Speaker 1: the law enforcement people tell us what they know and
Speaker 1: what they can tell us, because the one thing I
Speaker 1: worry about on all of this is these big mouth
Speaker 1: politicians can blow the case and the Defense Council can
Speaker 1: use their big flapping jaws to maybe get their person off.
Speaker 1: So he was over the weekend on all the Sunday shows.
Speaker 1: He's just loving the lights. Now. At the end of
Speaker 1: hogging all the details about the shooting and the investigation,
Speaker 1: he did go on about twenty minutes worth of basically
Speaker 1: what you would expect from the pulpit. He gave a
Speaker 1: sermon about how everything in this country needs to change
Speaker 1: and it starts with the social media. I think you're
Speaker 1: going to get the hint that I'm not a big
Speaker 1: fan of this guy, but I don't. On one head,
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with him. Social media has has changed
Speaker 1: our culture and in a big way, and so I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with him on that. But it reminds
Speaker 1: me of if you go back and you look at
Speaker 1: old videos of rock and roll stations, mostly in the South,
Speaker 1: there were some good old boys in the South at
Speaker 1: radio stations, and they were they were going to have
Speaker 1: a bonfire of Elvis Presley records because I'll tell you what,
Speaker 1: that swibbling his hips is going to ruin the fabric
Speaker 1: of our country. And they had these big, big deals
Speaker 1: to destroy Elvis Presley because of the fact he swiveled
Speaker 1: his hips. I guess there was a big deal back
Speaker 1: in the fifties. In any case, I had that same
Speaker 1: feeling from the governor. You're not going to put social
Speaker 1: media back in the barn. That horse is out and
Speaker 1: it's and it's miles down the road. And like I said,
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with him about the fact that's had
Speaker 1: an impact on our on our culture, on our society,
Speaker 1: but he's dreaming of that thing is going to be
Speaker 1: put put away. So I have some others who agree
Speaker 1: with him. I'll share the thoughts. Doctor Mark Siegel, who
Speaker 1: I think the world of agrees that social media is
Speaker 1: not good for him for your head from the from
Speaker 1: a medical standpoint. So we'll get into all of that business.
Speaker 1: There's other things. I just just reflecting on what happened
Speaker 1: regarding Charlie Kirk. There's lots of strange things that have
Speaker 1: been happening in the last few days. One of them
Speaker 1: is that we're finding out about the shooter and the
Speaker 1: fact that he did not like Charlie Kirk. He had
Speaker 1: conversation at a dinner a few days before about how
Speaker 1: he did not like Charlie Kirk. He disagreed with him,
Speaker 1: and so I'm thinking, okay, so he hates Charlie Kirk,
Speaker 1: so he can't stand and he can't stand Charlie Kirk's
Speaker 1: hatred for LGBTQ is the way he kind of put
Speaker 1: it paraphrasing, and I'm thinking, okay, so you can't stand
Speaker 1: his hatred. So you used your hatred to stop his hatred?
Speaker 1: Is that right? Did I miss something here? He used
Speaker 1: his hatred to stop Charlie Kirk's so called hatred. No,
Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk was very was very pleasant debating people. In fact,
Speaker 1: he said it on many occasions where he would much
Speaker 1: prefer to debate people who disagreed with it than people
Speaker 1: that agreed with him, and in doing so, he would
Speaker 1: not shy away. He would say. There was one one
Speaker 1: video I saw of a young guy that came up
Speaker 1: at some college and said, I'm a gay Republican, and
Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk was just as kind and nice to him
Speaker 1: as you could possibly imagine, saying I don't agree with
Speaker 1: your lifestyle, but you don't need to introduce yourself as
Speaker 1: a gay Republican. You're much more than that. There's a
Speaker 1: lot to you as a human being, as a young
Speaker 1: man but I don't agree with your lifestyle, but I'm
Speaker 1: glad the rest of you I seem to agree with.
Speaker 1: So but that's the kind of thing where now we know,
Speaker 1: we believe, we know that the shooter, you'll notice I'm
Speaker 1: not using his name. The shooter, we find out was
Speaker 1: in a romantic relationship with a guy and they had
Speaker 1: an apartment, and not only was he in a gay relationship,
Speaker 1: So he obviously did not like the fact that Charlie
Speaker 1: Kirk would talk about the fact that he doesn't agree
Speaker 1: with the gay lifestyle. Okay, you kill somebody for that,
Speaker 1: But then it probably really irritated him because he would
Speaker 1: also say I don't there was there were a number
Speaker 1: of videos out that you can look at people that
Speaker 1: came up and said I'm trans and he would say
Speaker 1: to them there, you can be a boy or you
Speaker 1: can be a girl, but you can't be either take
Speaker 1: your pick one or the other. And so this probably
Speaker 1: really irritated the shooter because not only was he the
Speaker 1: romantic relationship with the guy, but also a guy that
Speaker 1: was transitioning to be a woman, and so all of
Speaker 1: what Charlie Kirk said probably didn't have phase the guy
Speaker 1: at all before he got into this relationship. The shooter
Speaker 1: got thirty four out of thirty six on his ACT exam,
Speaker 1: really high score, four point zero. Student smart guy grew
Speaker 1: up in a very conservative MAGA household. Mom and dad
Speaker 1: are big supporters of MAGA and so there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people at that age who maybe just have a
Speaker 1: rebellious gene in them. And if mom and dad are
Speaker 1: conservative Christians and Republicans, it may come out that he
Speaker 1: was just I'm against everything mom and dad is. Again four,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be anti Republican. I'm going to be
Speaker 1: anti everything that they stood for. So we'll find out.
Speaker 1: It just goes on. But if he's so smart book smart,
Speaker 1: he had to do the dumbest thing ever because this
Speaker 1: has ruined his life. And if he may get the
Speaker 1: death penal, we don't know, but certainly he's not going
Speaker 1: to see freedom ever again. You think it was worth it,
Speaker 1: and then to use hatred because of your hatred just
Speaker 1: seems backwards. I'll tell you one other thing that seems
Speaker 1: backward as well, and that is in fact Charlie was
Speaker 1: wearing on the day he was killed. He had a
Speaker 1: T shirt on white T shirt and in black letters
Speaker 1: across the front it said freedom. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that he was big on was freedom of speech.
Speaker 1: And that's why he invited people, especially those who disagreed
Speaker 1: with him, to come up and, with the freedom of speech,
Speaker 1: say what they think and listen to what he thought,
Speaker 1: and they could have a dialogue back and forth. So
Speaker 1: we got freedom of speech. And Charlie obviously was very
Speaker 1: much in favor of freedom of speech. And there's some
Speaker 1: interesting things going on in our society right now where
Speaker 1: a lot of people. The stories are endless of people
Speaker 1: that are coming out and saying bad things about Charlie Kirk,
Speaker 1: and they're doing it in a public way, and they
Speaker 1: get fired. We've got a bunch of teachers. We've got
Speaker 1: a nurse who took on a doctor who said something bad.
Speaker 1: Now the nurse has lost her job and the doctor resigned.
Speaker 1: Today a long list of people that are being fired
Speaker 1: because of the fact that coming out and saying, you know,
Speaker 1: they didn't like Charlie Kirk and he was a bad
Speaker 1: guy and all this sort of negative stuff, and so
Speaker 1: they're being fired. So they're being fired. But wait a minute,
Speaker 1: Charlie was for freedom of speech, and as much as
Speaker 1: freedom of speech isn't about nice speak. Freedom of speech.
Speaker 1: The first Amendment is to protect the unnice speech, the
Speaker 1: uncomfortable speech. But there's a problem with that. That's the
Speaker 1: first Amendment, and people keep getting it confused with they
Speaker 1: can say anything anytime, anywhere, and you can't. The government
Speaker 1: cannot stop your speech, but your employer can. As some
Speaker 1: people forget that and stuff talk about about stupid. Why
Speaker 1: would you publicly go out and in in a form
Speaker 1: that everybody knows where you work and it gets back
Speaker 1: to your employer, they're gonna dump you. We don't need that,
Speaker 1: we don't need the fallout from what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: So they're getting fired because there is not freedom of speech.
Speaker 2: At work.
Speaker 1: Your employer can get rid of you in an instant
Speaker 1: if you say something they don't like. It's always been
Speaker 1: that way. The other thing I'm thinking about is as
Speaker 1: they're talking about social media, you know, and I know
Speaker 1: that Russia and China iran some of our countries out
Speaker 1: there that we are adversarial relationships, and they are very
Speaker 1: good at cyber attacks. That they're loving this. They want
Speaker 1: to divide America and divide Americans, and this is on
Speaker 1: the silver platter for them because people now are either
Speaker 1: four were not for shooting Charlie Kirk, but they were
Speaker 1: for his beliefs. Where they were against his beliefs. But
Speaker 1: now they're fighting over that, like they never really cared
Speaker 1: that much before. So where are we going to start today?
Speaker 1: Oh and they're asking about I see the police and
Speaker 1: are going, well, we have to find out the motive.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm sure they'll find out more information,
Speaker 1: but the motive seems to be clear. Charlie Kirk talked
Speaker 1: about the fact to trans people that there's you're either
Speaker 1: a boy or you're a girl, there's no in between.
Speaker 1: He said things about the fact that he didn't approve
Speaker 1: of the LGBTQ lifestyle. And so here's this guy who's
Speaker 1: got a boyfriend living in a gay lifestyle with somebody
Speaker 1: that is transitioning. I mean, it just obviously irritated the
Speaker 1: guy beyond what I mean. You can get angry about
Speaker 1: what people say, but I mean this guy obviously did
Speaker 1: not have a governor to pull in his evil thoughts,
Speaker 1: so evil took over. Where are we going to start?
Speaker 1: How about getting along with each other? This is Tim Burushett.
Speaker 1: He's a Republican from Tennessee. He's kind of a good
Speaker 1: old boy and just kind of says it like it is.
Speaker 1: He was asked about maybe the Republicans and Democrats and
Speaker 1: Congress can get along.
Speaker 3: Well, I have a history of my partisanship. As I
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, my friend Jared Moscowitz and I are very close.
Speaker 3: We talk every day, we talk on the floor, we
Speaker 3: talk about what's going on. But you know, ma'am, the
Speaker 3: reality is that's not going to happen. Let's just be honest.
Speaker 3: It doesn't get you elected. It does it back home.
Speaker 3: It's the red meat that gets you elected. Pointing the
Speaker 3: finger and the Democrats currently point in the national media
Speaker 3: frankly points at Trump. I was later eating the news
Speaker 3: relations that it's just some vile, that real stuff, even
Speaker 3: directed towards Charlie Kirk. And you know, it's never going
Speaker 3: to change, ma'am, until we have a real revival in
Speaker 3: this country. And and that hopefully what happens someday. But
Speaker 3: right now, it looks like it's going to be more
Speaker 3: of the same. It's a clickton bait. It's getting re elected.
Speaker 3: It's red meat. And that's what politics is about today.
Speaker 3: And that's frankly what it's always been about we can
Speaker 3: have these talks, and we can have these professors come
Speaker 3: on and of political science and sociologists and all this
Speaker 3: and talk about that. That's not what's going to happen. Man,
Speaker 3: America is so tone deaf to all that they want.
Speaker 3: They want the hate, and that's what politicians, right.
Speaker 1: I think he's right. You may not like to hear
Speaker 1: that because everybody's talking about, Oh you think, do you
Speaker 1: think we're all going to get along now better? I
Speaker 1: think this is the turning point. And I I'm with
Speaker 1: tim Bershett. I don't think anything will change. Oh do
Speaker 1: you think things are going to get worse? Oh? Maybe,
Speaker 1: But I don't think things are going to get all
Speaker 1: of a sudden we're going to be kumbaya. This reminds
Speaker 1: me of sadly when George Floyd died and people said, oh,
Speaker 1: because there were all the riots and Black Lives Matter,
Speaker 1: we're running through the cities and it was burning down
Speaker 1: police stations. It was a mess, and people said, that's
Speaker 1: this is it, this is where race relations are going
Speaker 1: to be better from here on out. And I set
Speaker 1: it on my radio show at the time, I said,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I mean I would. I hope so,
Speaker 1: But I just people don't. We don't. We don't change
Speaker 1: with a flip of the switch. We gradually change in cultures,
Speaker 1: and we can we can argue that's really what we're
Speaker 1: arguing about. We're not arguing about politics. We really are not.
Speaker 1: I mean, Republicans have been for smaller government and less
Speaker 1: taxes since the day I was born, and Democrats have
Speaker 1: been for more taxes and bigger government since the day
Speaker 1: I was poor. That hasn't changed. I don't think it
Speaker 1: will ever change. But nobody goes around killing anybody over it.
Speaker 1: We just disagree with each other on it. But when
Speaker 1: it comes to culture or social or whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call it, not politics, but our culture is where
Speaker 1: the emotions come out in our disagreements. I can say
Speaker 1: Democrats want bigger government, more taxes, and I'm not breathing
Speaker 1: heavy talking about it. But you get me going on
Speaker 1: some social issue, cultural issue, yeah, you get people heated up.
Speaker 1: Just like tim Bershat was saying, people pay attention to
Speaker 1: extremist comments. That's what they have always done. David Urban,
Speaker 1: longtime spokesman for the Republican side of the Aisle. Then
Speaker 1: Kate Bedenfield who is a very good spokeswoman, great spinmeister
Speaker 1: for Democrats. We're talking about this earlier today and about
Speaker 1: extreme views get the attention, and if you get the attention,
Speaker 1: you get the money. It raises money. It's more financially
Speaker 1: beneficial if you do something extreme.
Speaker 2: Here they are, Yeah, Pam, I don't know how he
Speaker 2: got there.
Speaker 4: I think it's a you know, combination of lots of things, right,
Speaker 4: there's disconnections in society people. You know, there's there's it's
Speaker 4: it's multisymptomatic. I don't think you know, as you alluded to,
Speaker 4: it didn't happen overnight. We're not going to get out overnight.
Speaker 4: And I think you know there is there there are
Speaker 4: Governor Utah Governor coined this phrase the other day, you know,
Speaker 4: conflict entrepreneurs, which I think is a really interesting way
Speaker 4: to look at things. But social media doesn't reward people
Speaker 4: like Kate myself who are moderates who kind of come
Speaker 4: to the middle. You know, we don't have millions of
Speaker 4: followers on Twitter, on Facebook or on Instagram because we're moderates.
Speaker 2: More extreme you.
Speaker 4: Are in your party, whether you're a Democrat or Republican,
Speaker 4: the algorithm rewards that right, there's money to.
Speaker 5: Be made there.
Speaker 4: And so if you're a House member, if you're a
Speaker 4: moderate House member, you kind of get lost in the cacophony.
Speaker 4: But if you're AOC or, if you're Marjorie Taylor Green,
Speaker 4: you millions of dollars, you're at the top of your shows.
Speaker 4: You're you know, you're out on the road talking different groups.
Speaker 4: People pay you to come and speak to their groups.
Speaker 4: And so that that whole conflict entrepreneurial system, I think
Speaker 4: rewards people who are more extremely and by the way,
Speaker 4: the way our Congress is set up, right, of the
Speaker 4: four hundred and thirty five House members, they're about twenty
Speaker 4: that actually have to campaign if you're a moderate.
Speaker 2: So I think, no question, Jerry mannering is a part
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 6: And I think social media creates almost a false sense
Speaker 6: of community. It's like people think, well, if I'm talking
Speaker 6: on this platform and people are hearing me and they're commenting, well,
Speaker 6: you know that I'm engaged in political discourse. And the
Speaker 6: reality is the discourse that happens on social media is
Speaker 6: actually so far removed from where the vast majority of Americans,
Speaker 6: everyday Americans are in terms of their politics and so
Speaker 6: I do.
Speaker 2: Think there's been a really distorting impact.
Speaker 6: And I will say when we travel and talk to people,
Speaker 6: you you mostly hear people say, I don't really get
Speaker 6: what's going on on Twitter. I don't like that conversation
Speaker 6: that's not doesn't represent me. You mostly hear people saying,
Speaker 6: how are we going to get back to a place
Speaker 6: where people with different viewpoints can actually work together?
Speaker 4: An extremist get an outside voice on social media. That's
Speaker 4: the problem, right, They're rewarded for it. You know, people again,
Speaker 4: Kate and myself, we have more things in common when
Speaker 4: we go, when we talk to groups, people are amazed
Speaker 4: at how how much we share, how much common ally
Speaker 4: we share. And I think, listen Charlie Kirk, like him
Speaker 4: or not like him. What Charlie Kirk was doing is
Speaker 4: he was doing exactly the right way. He was going
Speaker 4: out meeting people on their own terms, meeting people where
Speaker 4: they were and engaging in political discourse mark a place
Speaker 4: of ideas. If you look at some of these videos,
Speaker 4: some of the places where you look at you see
Speaker 4: Charlie Kirk's most his humanity really shines through is people
Speaker 4: who he really doesn't agree with, and in certain instances
Speaker 4: whether religion, sexual orientation, some of the really big issues
Speaker 4: he has the most pleasant discourse with. And somebody's getting listen,
Speaker 4: it wasn't all perfect. He's a human, he wasn't a deity.
Speaker 4: But he was doing it the right way. Right, we
Speaker 4: should incur encourage more people to be like Charlie Kirk
Speaker 4: b sides, I wish there was much more of that
Speaker 4: going on in college campuses. But somehow along the way
Speaker 4: we got lost and and words became violence. And you know,
Speaker 4: in college campuses people these kids got to be such
Speaker 4: you know, they would be afraid if somebody said something
Speaker 4: might hurt their feelings. Need to save space. We need
Speaker 4: to get back where we can have discourse. We could
Speaker 4: talk about things it's meant to be. It doesn't It's
Speaker 4: not going to be comfortable all the time. They have
Speaker 4: these discussions about race politics. There's lots of things that
Speaker 4: are uncomfortable. Doesn't mean it's bad. We should be having those.
Speaker 4: That's how you get to you get to common ally. Again,
Speaker 4: to quote Charlie Kirk right, discourse is good. When you
Speaker 4: stop talking, that's when the fights start. Large organizations, these
Speaker 4: these you know, Mark Zuckerberg doesn't let his kids have
Speaker 4: a phone. His daughters don't have phones. He limits the
Speaker 4: amount of screen time they have. People are going to
Speaker 4: lose out. They are very powerful forces here at work
Speaker 4: that are trying to, you know, pull people in a
Speaker 4: certain direction.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to bounce around a little bit here.
Speaker 1: So they're talking about, Yeah, we need to get along.
Speaker 1: Timber Shed says, it's not going to happen. David Urban
Speaker 1: I like him, but I don't think I think he's right. Again,
Speaker 1: these guys are right. I love the term about conflict entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of money in politics, big hardball money,
Speaker 1: and yes, they're they're in the business of creating conflict
Speaker 1: because it creates money for them. Extreme always gets attention,
Speaker 1: no question about it. Well, I've told the story before.
Speaker 1: There was a book that came out in nineteen ninety,
Speaker 1: and it was just as we were rolling over into
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety. It was a business book and it was
Speaker 1: about the great Depression is coming in the nineties. And
Speaker 1: so it was written by this guy that I don't know,
Speaker 1: a bunch of alphabets after his name, and I read
Speaker 1: the book and I thought, well, that's interesting, except for
Speaker 1: he kept dismissing the business cycle as if it did
Speaker 1: not happen, and so he predicted all this doom and gloom.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was going to be the worst deck
Speaker 1: we had ever seen. And we know now that the
Speaker 1: Natties were absolutely one of the best decades we've ever had.
Speaker 1: But he sold a boatload of books because it was
Speaker 1: all extreme and scary and forecasting the worst possible thing.
Speaker 1: People ate it up. So I guess if you want
Speaker 1: to get ahead, no the extreme, I guess that's one
Speaker 1: way for some people. All right, let's let's take a
Speaker 1: look here at tomorrow first court appearance for the shooter.
Speaker 1: Elliott Williams, a New York lawyer, as says, this is
Speaker 1: what's going to happen.
Speaker 7: Oh well, John. More than anything else, it's an opportunity
Speaker 7: to advise the defendant of the charges against him. We
Speaker 7: in the public may have been chattering about it, but
Speaker 7: the right that someone is guaranteed under the Constitution is
Speaker 7: to be advised of what he's charged with. They're going
Speaker 7: to tell him what the charges are. They will likely
Speaker 7: give him an answer, an opportunity to respond in the
Speaker 7: form of saying guilty or not guilty, and will then
Speaker 7: likely set a calendar or schedule for the next series
Speaker 7: of hearings that are going to come up, maybe even
Speaker 7: the trial, although the judge may not set that for
Speaker 7: some time. Again, we should be careful in characterizing the
Speaker 7: fact is not cooperating because, as the prior guest had said,
Speaker 7: Number one, it happens all the time. But more importantly,
Speaker 7: it is his right under American law to not cooperate
Speaker 7: with law enforcement. We've all heard about the Fifth Amendment.
Speaker 7: You have the right to remain silent. Well, that's also
Speaker 7: the right to not talk to police, you know, when
Speaker 7: you're in custody and they're asking questions. Now, again, there's
Speaker 7: plenty of evidence, it seems, of other people who are
Speaker 7: willing to talk to law enforcement, and a case that
Speaker 7: is appearing to be quite compelling based on physical evidence
Speaker 7: that they're compiling. But again that doesn't have to come
Speaker 7: from the defendant and quite and shouldn't. And to be clear,
Speaker 7: you know, if people want this guy to go to jail,
Speaker 7: the last thing on earth people want is him talking
Speaker 7: to police because those kinds of state and it could
Speaker 7: actually jeopardize a future trial if a statement was taken
Speaker 7: from him improperly. So it's very important just let him
Speaker 7: be silent if he wants to be silent quite a bit,
Speaker 7: but it can be done. Look, there have been many
Speaker 7: trials of the century in your lifetime, and mind and
Speaker 7: juries can be found.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 7: The challenge is not finding people who know nothing about
Speaker 7: the case. It's finding people who, even if they know
Speaker 7: something about the case, can set it aside and agree
Speaker 7: to judge the defendant fairly.
Speaker 2: And those exist.
Speaker 7: There are a lot of people that don't follow the
Speaker 7: news or even follow the news, and are willing to
Speaker 7: sort of put that aside. The bigger challenge here is
Speaker 7: if in fact they are proceeding with the death penalty.
Speaker 7: That's the second perdle in picking a jury. Prosecutors are
Speaker 7: going to be looking for people not just who are
Speaker 7: prone to convicting, but also are prone to convicting and
Speaker 7: then assigning a death sentence. Conversely, defense attorney's gonna be
Speaker 7: looking for people who are going to quit, but also
Speaker 7: if he's convicted, not getting him executed. So that's a
Speaker 7: more complicated jury selection than you usually see.
Speaker 1: So that whole process gets underway tomorrow and we'll give
Speaker 1: you the details as they come. Rolling in. Robin Drinke,
Speaker 1: former FBI agent, talking about Cash Betel getting some grief
Speaker 1: about the fact that he put out a tweet saying
Speaker 1: we have the person in custody before they did. He
Speaker 1: did it twice as a matter of fact. And also
Speaker 1: this the whole business about the trans community. You know
Speaker 1: what was strange about this is the guy we played
Speaker 1: that We played him talking last week, the guy who
Speaker 1: was at the microphone facing Charlie Kirk and they were
Speaker 1: going back and forth, and he was he brought up
Speaker 1: the question he asked Charlie Kirk about do you know
Speaker 1: how many trans people have been involved in mass shootings?
Speaker 1: And Charlie Kirk's last words were something like without without
Speaker 1: counting gang violence, and that's when the bullet went off.
Speaker 1: But this but a guy was talking to him about
Speaker 1: the trans community and shooting and then you find out
Speaker 1: that the shooter actually is in a romantic relationship with
Speaker 1: a transitioning guy. Weird coincidental and well here's Robin Drake.
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, so Cash was really really good on doing
Speaker 8: a few things. He's talking about the investigation and which
Speaker 8: is really good, you know, talking about this arc of
Speaker 8: this online radicalization that he had. It has also kind
Speaker 8: of showing all the transparency that the FBI is now having,
Speaker 8: which is really good because we want open hozz communication, transparency,
Speaker 8: and an element of vulnerability, which I'll get into on
Speaker 8: Bongino a second, to re instill some trust and faith
Speaker 8: on our organizations which were lost over years. But really
Speaker 8: going into the amount of leakage that this individual had,
Speaker 8: and you said that he was described as being quiet,
Speaker 8: which is kind of interesting because we're getting so much
Speaker 8: data in details on what his thoughts and ideas were,
Speaker 8: and so that's what I've really got for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he mentioned Dan Bongino, the deputy director of the FBI,
Speaker 1: and this is what Bongino had to say earlier today.
Speaker 9: There were people in his network, friends and family who
Speaker 9: had stated that he had become more political, that he
Speaker 9: had become at some parts. I believe some of his
Speaker 9: coworkers had stated that he had kind of detached himself
Speaker 9: when the topic of politics came up and walked away
Speaker 9: from them. Family members said he'd become more political, leading
Speaker 9: us to believe that this ideology had infected him and
Speaker 9: had taken over.
Speaker 1: So these other people, whether it's the boyfriend or whether
Speaker 1: it's people in a group chat, did they know about
Speaker 1: what he was going to do. Are they possibly accessories
Speaker 1: after the fact? Back to Robin Dry, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I definitely could.
Speaker 8: But as you know, the deputy director was saying, there's
Speaker 8: a lot more investigation to go on here. Was it's
Speaker 8: really striking to me is that he was surrounded by
Speaker 8: a lot of people in his life that obviously had
Speaker 8: a lot of group think in a certain way of thinking,
Speaker 8: which was very very healthy, very communicative. And then as
Speaker 8: he started this in himself, from that, he's going to
Speaker 8: get that validation from somewhere else.
Speaker 2: Hence we go to the online radicalization.
Speaker 8: And really when we think about online radicalization, it really
Speaker 8: comes down to one simple thing.
Speaker 2: It's where curiosity dies.
Speaker 8: And so he got entrenched into that mindset and anything
Speaker 8: that's going to go against it and against how he
Speaker 8: saw himself and as he saw his partners, what he's
Speaker 8: going to start escalating towards rage, hatred, discontent and obviously violent.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well that's what we're seeing.
Speaker 8: So it's actually just him saying what he's doing, so
Speaker 8: we can see it in his statements, we can see it,
Speaker 8: and that's why I think he really targeted Charlie kirk Hears,
Speaker 8: because Charlie was a very curious person. He is very
Speaker 8: set in his mindset and what he believed in, obviously,
Speaker 8: but he's always asking discovery questions. And so this is
Speaker 8: what this individual, this horrible Sasas never did. He was
Speaker 8: always arguing what he thought rather than being curious about
Speaker 8: what you thought. And that's what Charlie did really well.
Speaker 8: I think that's why there's such a clash in his
Speaker 8: mind about why he wanted to get rid of him.
Speaker 8: So he fits a profile of a typical loan shooter,
Speaker 8: and so at any time someone kind of fits a pattern,
Speaker 8: what I'd like to do is kind of look at
Speaker 8: what doesn't fit the pattern. And so all these things
Speaker 8: we've been talking about so far is what deviates from
Speaker 8: that pattern. But one thing that is always prevalent is
Speaker 8: there's a triggering moment where something kind of tipped him
Speaker 8: over the edge from rage and discontent into violence. I'm
Speaker 8: very curious to whether they discover something having to do
Speaker 8: with the roommate, because a lot of things having to
Speaker 8: do around the trans world, not necessarily as an ideology,
Speaker 8: but around the person he cared the most about. So
Speaker 8: I'm really curious of what they are going to discover
Speaker 8: in the investigation. That might have been a triggering moment,
Speaker 8: because really the only person that knows is him. I
Speaker 8: think it's going really, really well. And a lot of
Speaker 8: reason why it's going well is, as the director said
Speaker 8: the very beginning, he traveled out to on the site
Speaker 8: to help bypass the bureaucracy that typically goes so they
Speaker 8: can make things happen at a much rapid rate. And
Speaker 8: also the amount of data that's coming in the leads
Speaker 8: the ideas all this information is coming in is also
Speaker 8: making it not just great for this investigation, but it's
Speaker 8: going to help further on future investigation.
Speaker 1: So let's go full SERVI here. We'll go back around
Speaker 1: to the social media business. And no, it's not going
Speaker 1: to go away. But professor University of Chicago's name is
Speaker 1: Robert Pape and he has studied social media since it
Speaker 1: first was created. Here's what he think.
Speaker 5: We are at a watershed moment. I call this the
Speaker 5: era of violent populism in America. Violent populism is defined
Speaker 5: really by two things. First, we are seeing a rising
Speaker 5: tide of political violence on both the right and the
Speaker 5: left just since two thousand and two. Think about the
Speaker 5: political assassinations and assassination attempts against Conservatives, Supreme Court Justice
Speaker 5: Brett Kavanaugh, Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi missed
Speaker 5: her almost killed her husband. Two assassination attempts against candidate
Speaker 5: Republican candidate for President Donald Trump, the assassination attempt against
Speaker 5: Governor Josh Shapiro in June, the assassinations and assassination attempts
Speaker 5: against Democratic political leaders in Minnesota, and now the assassination death.
Speaker 2: Of Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 5: The second big feature of violent populism is art. I've
Speaker 5: been studying political violence for thirty years. I think isis
Speaker 5: but in the last five years American political violence and
Speaker 5: conducting surveys of support for political violence among Americans. Our
Speaker 5: most recent survey in May found thirty nine percent of
Speaker 5: Democrats agreed that the use of force was justified to
Speaker 5: remove Donald Trump from the presidency thirty nine percent. So
Speaker 5: we found twenty four percent of Republicans agreed that the
Speaker 5: use of the US military to suppress Democratic protesters was justified.
Speaker 5: These are from These represent tens of millions of people
Speaker 5: on both sides of the aisle, and that's why you're
Speaker 5: seeing the rising tide of political violence on both sides.
Speaker 1: And here's my favorite Governor Cox out of Utah preaching
Speaker 1: about social media.
Speaker 10: I believe that social media has played a direct role
Speaker 10: in every single assassination and assassination attempt that we have
Speaker 10: seen over the last five six years. There is no
Speaker 10: question in my mind that cancer probably isn't a strong
Speaker 10: enough word what we have done, especially to our kids.
Speaker 10: It took us a decade to realize how evil these
Speaker 10: algorithms are.
Speaker 1: And don't forget to burn your elvis records. Here's Professor Pape.
Speaker 5: Social media is like pouring gasoline on the fire, but
Speaker 5: it's not the fire itself. My research shows that we
Speaker 5: are being driven by a big social change in that
Speaker 5: is driving support for political violence, much the way social
Speaker 5: change has driven political violence in other countries, but the
Speaker 5: details of the social change differ. We are going through
Speaker 5: a historic change for the first time in the two
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty year history of our country, from a
Speaker 5: white majority democracy to a white minority democracy. In fact,
Speaker 5: the tipping point generation for this started about ten years ago.
Speaker 5: In nineteen ninety we were seventy six percent non Hispanic white,
Speaker 5: today fifty seven percent another ten years before, forty nine percent. Well,
Speaker 5: this helps to explain the meteoric rise of Donald Trump
Speaker 5: why his signature issue is immigration that's gathered so much support,
Speaker 5: because there are many people that like to slow down,
Speaker 5: maybe even reverse this change. This also explains the virulent
Speaker 5: opposition to MAGA by many parts of the left, because
Speaker 5: there are many people on the left who want to
Speaker 5: continue this change. These is the reason why we can
Speaker 5: predict the rise of violent populism and left to its
Speaker 5: own devices, this will get worse.
Speaker 1: Heck of a wait in the podcast today is going
Speaker 1: to get is gonna be bad? I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I think social media has been around long enough where
Speaker 1: it has had already various iterations. I mean, everybody that
Speaker 1: was in college was on Facebook. That's what it started with.
Speaker 1: And now there isn't a college kid that it even
Speaker 1: knows where Facebook is. They're all off on I don't know,
Speaker 1: Snap or TikTok or some Oh. Speaking of TikTok, apparently
Speaker 1: the President is going to have a phone call with
Speaker 1: President she from China on Friday, and apparently they've they've
Speaker 1: got some deal they think is going to work out
Speaker 1: to where TikTok will stay in business. But but you
Speaker 1: see my point going back to it's moved where people.
Speaker 1: Young people go one direction, older people go a different place.
Speaker 1: On social media, you're not going to get rid of
Speaker 1: social media. You're not going to get rid of the telephone.
Speaker 1: You're not going to get rid of a lot of
Speaker 1: different technologies that people use anyway. So you want to
Speaker 1: talk about how Wall Street did today, Well, let's take
Speaker 1: a look the dow. Yeah, it's positive, it was up
Speaker 1: just forty nine, forty nine points higher. Everybody's kind of
Speaker 1: sitting on their hands, I think, until Wednesday when the
Speaker 1: Fed decides what to do. So up forty six today
Speaker 1: to doubt forty five thousand and eight, eighty three s
Speaker 1: some p up thirty NASDAC up two hundred and seven,
Speaker 1: the price of gold thirty four dollars higher, up to
Speaker 1: thirty seven twenty one, and oil up most of a
Speaker 1: dollar now sixty three dollars in some change for a
Speaker 1: barrel of oil. So thank you for coming by today.
Speaker 1: We are going to be back again tomorrow, and I
Speaker 1: hope to see you then.