Speaker 1: Get to know the Cougar's opponents and rivals. Right now,
I need to know the faux segment.
Speaker 2: Todd Cougar Sports with Ben Kretelber, Welcome back Cougar Sports
one O three nine ninety eight point three. ESPN the Fan.
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Speaker 2: It is time to get to know the foe.
Speaker 3: Going to get into the inside knowledge of who this
University of Utah team is from a local inshider representing
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Speaker 2: All right, let's get out to the hotline. Welcome in.
Speaker 3: University of Utah Insider, Utah Jazz Insider. He's got his
own show on the ESPN seven hundred airwaves of the
Afternoon Drive two to six pm. It's the Drive with Spence.
Check it's He's on the line, Spence. How you living, brother?
Speaker 4: I'm good man.
Speaker 5: I love this week. It's been really fun so far.
Looking forward to the rest of it and looking forward
to what I think he's going to be an epic
historic Saturday night in Provo for the people that will
be in Provo.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: How unique in singular is it to have the rivalry
back in the same conference.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: For too long they were separated by conference affiliation, years
were taken off. You know, I always felt like the
student athlete was the one that was deprived of these
unique and singular competitive experiences. We know that college football
was built on rivalries. How special is it now for
these student athletes the community to have it the time
and place it's at right now with the conference affiliation included.
Speaker 5: Well, the conference affiliation and the fact that both teams
are still very much alive and in the race to
win the conference, and if you are there at the end,
and there really is a dynamic in play that this
conference could get two teams in if the cards fall
where they need to fall. And neither of these programs
has ever been to a CFP. The fourth time in history,
these two teams have been ranked in the AP Top
twenty five. Fox Big Noon in Town, I mean, with
a prime time slot and the game on Fox, there
is a chance this will be the most watched game
in the one hundred plus year history of Utah BYU football.
I think more people will be exposed to this rivalry
than have ever been exposed to it before. And there's
so much on the line. There's always a lot on
the line. I mean, these two teams could stink and
there would be a lot on the line, but they're
both really good and BYU passed every test that's been
put to them so far. Utah loss to a team
who I think, you know, it's probably time to say
Texas Tech isn't just potentially the best team in the
Big twelve, but maybe one of the top five or
sixteams in the country.
Speaker 4: So a lot on the line.
Speaker 5: Primetime slot night games in Provo are a lot of fun.
That stadium is going to be loud and proud, and
millions of people across the country will be exposed to it.
Speaker 4: So very much looking forward to Saturday night.
Speaker 5: Compelling, compelling stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, over the last thirty years, I was kind of
running the numbers, and let's say thirty one years going
back to when Ronnie Mack took over the program at
the University of Utah. Since that moment, the rivalry shifted
and Utah became the winner of this rivalry. Nineteen wins
for them, twelve losses. So b Wait only has twelve
wins in that span of time, and most of those
wins came in the independent era for BYU, in the
PAC twelve era for the University of Utah, and many
of those any of those games, I think we're decided
by one score, like eight or less points.
Speaker 2: And so I don't know you mentioned the national coverage
of this.
Speaker 3: I don't know, and you maybe have a better finger
on the pulse of the national scene a bit because
you've been around, you have many connections around the country.
Do they really know what this rivalry is all about?
The emotion, the religion aspect, the communal aspect of it, Like,
do they really know what this rivalry is all about?
Speaker 2: Spence?
Speaker 5: I don't think you can unless you have lived here.
I don't think you can unless you've played in the game,
coached in the game, attended one of the schools covered
this game.
Speaker 4: I mean it's.
Speaker 5: I think from a macro standpoint, people respect it and
get that it's heated, But unless you've been in the mix,
I don't think there's any way you POSSI can. I mean,
it's it's unique for me because my grandfather may he
Rest in Peace, was a Cougar Club member, and so
I started going to this game when I was two,
and you know, throughout the course of my upbringing, even
when we moved back East, I made sure to stay
locked into this game. I would stay up until midnight
back East, even to watch BYU and Utah basketball back
at Big Mondays back in the day. Then I moved
back out here, I went to the U. All five
of my siblings went to BYU. All five of my
siblings met their spouse at BYU. My dad went to
both schools, so he'll tell you that, you know, he
walks the defense. But my parents both went to BYU.
And so I've been either going to this game, attending
this game, or covering this game for basically forty five years.
I'll tell you how old I am, and obviously you played.
So to answer your question, I do think from a
macro stand, it's respected and it's understood how big it
is by people that cover the sport or love college football.
But I just don't think there's any way you can
fully understand it unless you've been in it for a
long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm currently trying to pen a piece about this
rivalry game, you know, and how like these different elements
that make it super unique to our community. And coming
from the state of Arizona, I had no idea what
this rivalry was about until I experienced it for myself,
and I'm gonna try to put it into words. It'll
be interesting to see how it's received. The tribalism, the enmity,
the social comparison, like the competitive comparison culture that we
all fall prey to in our social lives, but how
it leaks over into the gridiron onto the football field,
it's truly unique. But Spence, what have you been delving
into as far as your topics are concerned.
Speaker 2: This week thus far?
Speaker 3: What have you delved into as far as from your pulpit,
what you've pontificated.
Speaker 5: On how similar these programs are now and how similar
these teams are now and how they want to play
the same way. I mean, I started to notice really
a few years back, but it was heightened when Jay
was hired. It was heightened when they hired Jay that
BYU is now covered on a national scale and written
about on a national scale and talked about on a
national scale the same way Utah is. It's a fast,
physical defense. The defense is now given the benefit of
the doubt at BYU in a way that it wasn't
back in the day. And it's not to say, like
I had Jim Herman on the show on Monday, defensive
end for that eighty four national championship team. It's not
to say they didn't have great defenses here or there,
but the defenses were overshadowed by the Steve Youngs and
the Jim McMahons and ty deveryn Win's a heisman. I mean, BYU.
Their reputation was great quarterbacks, Lavell the inventor, pioneer of
the modern day forward passing game. And so there were defenses. Certainly,
you can't win a national championship or a bunch of
conference championships without great defenses.
Speaker 4: But now it's like, well, i'll give you.
Speaker 5: For instance, when the Rex last stuff went down, no
part of me thought, Okay, that's a damning piece of
info for BYU this year. No part of me thought
that that was going to change the scope of who
they could be because I know Jay Hill, and I
know that defensive personnel, and Keanu transfers to BYU, and
you have potentially the best linebacking duo in the Big
twelve with Glasker and Kelly. Oh, by the way, Realk,
is Jack gonna play? You guys know as Jack playing.
Speaker 3: I mean, there were flirtations with him playing last week.
I imagine, I imagine he will try to give it
a go. I wonder if he'll be cleared right like
the shoulder injury. Yeah, you know, he could probably play,
but there could be contrary indications if he were to
dislocate or injury it again. So I think it'll be
kind of a collaborative effort. But they may, I mean,
the medical staff may just say we're not allowing you
to do this because of long term injury.
Speaker 2: But you know Jack's going to try to play obviously.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure. But back to the point, just really
it's looking in a mirror. You have two dynamic quarterbacks.
You have two dynamic athletes, a quarterback that will run,
and two offensive coordinators that want their quarterback to run.
Speaker 4: BYU has a bell cow in LJ.
Speaker 5: Utah splits the carries between the Kari Rodgers and Wahaunt Parker.
But it's funny if you combine the production of Parker
and Rogers, it's pretty close to who LJ is just individually.
So it's you know, the two quarterbacks are going to rush.
They've got running backs that will also run the football,
and they want to run. A rod wants to run,
Jason Beck wants to run BYU's offensive line I.
Speaker 4: Think has been better than I thought they were going
to be.
Speaker 5: In Utah's offensive line is potentially the best in the
Big twelve, and maybe one of the top two or
three units in.
Speaker 4: The country there.
Speaker 5: You know, it didn't used to be like this, But
it's like looking in a mirror, right, I mean, the
teams are similar, the coaching staff across pollination, the Utah
lums On BYU staff, the b YU lums On Utah staff,
you know. So ultimately that's kind of been one of
the main things we've been discussing, just how in the
modern day, with Kolani now ten.
Speaker 4: Years building this program up, how.
Speaker 5: How similar they are now and that didn't used to
be the case.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, I called it the Spider Man meme, you know,
because I'm not all that yet, right, but that's what
I see like amongst the that this generation.
Speaker 2: It's the Spider Man meme.
Speaker 3: And in one of the things we delve into, because
you really brought up some great points about this mirror
of this mirror effect that we're seeing in the cross pollination,
we kind of delved into the objective metrics of who's
the better quarterback leading their respective teams, you know, Devin
Dampier or Bear Bachmeyer, and you look up their stats
and you're like, oh my gosh, these guys are the
same freaking dude. Objectively speaking on the statistical outputs, I
don't know if you've looked at I just actually sent
you some of the comparative stats.
Speaker 2: But you know, who's the better quarterback here? Are they
just the same?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a fair question. And it's interesting because.
Speaker 5: You know Bears as a freshman, he had a couple
of shaky moments against Arizona. That's to be expected. If
you're going to go with a true freshman, you're probably
accepting that there are going to be some moments in
big games where he's just going to look like he's eighteen, right,
And and so you know at a Roun on the
show and a Rod's assertion is this is a new
challenge for Bear, even if it's if it's at home.
They have not seen a defense like Utahs. They've not
seen a physical team like Utahs. So as far as
who the better quarterback is, I would probably lean Devin
a little bit right now, only because he's played more
college football. But there's not a big gap. And if
you're a BYU fan, I think it's really really interesting
to just witness what this young kid will do under
the brightest lights of his career. By far, and my
trepidation with Devin was can he do what he did
in New Mexico against big twelve defenses? A little nervous
about the passing numbers a year ago. You know, it's
interesting to dig into data. You also have to take
into account who these teams have played. So, for instance,
like ASU came into saw Lake last week and the
data indicated their rush defense was really good, but they
were susceptible through the air, and so all week I'm like, well,
Devon's gonna have to throw it twenty five thirty times.
Speaker 4: He threw it twelve times.
Speaker 5: You know, they just lined up across from ASU and
just bullied them. And these Utah offensive linemen it's like
watching a bar bouncer. They're picking these defensive linemen up
and they're throwing them. Now, will they be able to
do that against the BYU front that is also big,
physical and.
Speaker 4: Wants to get off the quarterback. I mean it's a
I think.
Speaker 5: It's a now. Now, Utah has played a really good
football team in Texas Tech, but the offensive line got handled.
I mean those Tech defensive linemen, those two g NS
or NFL guys, right, So Utah has seen a physical
front didn't pass the test, will be able to pass
the test against a front that's probably more physical than
any team they've played against outside of Tech. This game,
I think will be one lost in the trenches. But
as far as who the better quarterback is right now,
I probably go Devin slightly. But the potential this Bear
kid has, I think is through the roof. I think
it should be exciting if you're a BYU fan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, another thing I debated, and I've pulled up a
number of analytics Sagarin FPI, you know, try to get
a good feel for what the strength of schedule has been.
I didn't find a huge disparity, but let's go with
ESPN FPI. Utah is seventy first in the country in
their strength of schedule. I found that interesting. In Baus
at eighty fifth, so slightly more difficult schedule, and that's
maybe why Utah is favored going into this game because
of the form and fashion which they've won their slight
in ESPN SP plus from an efficiency metric, I think
Utah is at eighteen and Bous at twenty three. So
all of the data points are like, man, these guys,
these are these guys are the spider Man me. These
these are very similar programs in so many ways, and
I wonder is it a good thing or a bad
thing to have two quarterbacks that don't know anything about
this rivalry game, have no idea what they're getting into,
they've never experienced, as they're coming from different places on
geographically speaking, from different programs. Is it a good thing
or a bad thing that they don't have that like
upbringing with this rivalry lore surrounding them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a really good question. It's a good point
and something I've discussed with both Wit and a Rod
this week. We're hoping to get Kalanie before the game
because once upon a time, I mean the coaching staff,
as we've already discussed, you know, they're familiar.
Speaker 4: Because a lot of them either.
Speaker 5: Played or coached at the other school that they're coaching
against now. But the recruiting footprint that both these programs
have developed, I mean, you just look at the rosters.
It's Texas, it's Florida, it's Carolina.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's everywhere.
Speaker 5: It's all across the country, and that brings a unique
element here as far as how do you approach this
week from the standpoint of helping these players understand the
magnitude of this game, or do you want to lean
into that to the point where it could be too much,
And then you get in their head. Do you like
the fact that they're just like, oh, yeah, we're just
playing another team this week, and I don't really know
what the answer is. I think that's an interesting dynamics
to consider. For instance, you know, my understanding of the
way Bronco used to coach this week was simply their nameless,
faceless players and it's another game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a John woodwere Roah, he took a
job with the front Yeah that's what he would do.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Whereas Wit it's very clear like, no, we don't lose
to those guys.
Speaker 4: This is different.
Speaker 5: So you run the risk of over hyping it to
the point because these are still young people whose frontal
cortex is still developing. Not to get too deep in
the weeds, but you know, you do not want to
overhype a young person to the point where they freeze
when the lights go on. So the balance between yes,
this is a rival and we don't lose to them,
and you just still have to prepare the same way
this week that's where this chess match between these two
coaching staffs. I think it's really really interesting.
Speaker 3: Give me your opinion on the dynamics of how these
coaches have, you know, maybe approach this this ribvaly through
how they articulate it. Right, So Kyle Whittingham seems to
be a little bit more like you know, petty, right,
he won't mention the name of BYU won't del then
he doesn't want to and the details you know, called
it the in state rivalry for years, and he just
kind of allude to the fact like, oh no, our
rivals are USC now in Colorado and other things, and look,
that's all finding well. But even in there is me
recent media press conference, it did kind of oz once
again of that petty competitor that has made him great
by the way, Klania, on the other hand, he's his
jovial self, full of gratitude, full of of kind of love,
you know, his love and learning mentality. Give me the
dichotomy of these two ways to coach from your perspective,
the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly of it all.
Speaker 5: So I don't know this to be true because he's
never said this to me, but based off of the
way that Kyle approaches this week, I think he I
think he feels like that there are tremendous amounts of
DYU alums BYU fans, BYU people that have never forgiven
him for saying no to his alma mater and saying
yes to the rival of his alma mater. You know,
there are stories about his family getting into it with
BYU fans.
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 5: I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened with
his wife and son.
Speaker 4: It's very easy to.
Speaker 5: Go online and see how many BYU fans have disparaging
things to say about Kyle. So he's never said this
to me, so I don't know it to be true,
But based off of his decision to use some of
the language you outlined, I think he's there's a part
of him that is either hurt or upset at some
of the things that BYU fans have said and done
to he and his family.
Speaker 4: That's my guess.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: On the other side of it, Klanie is just the
best dude. He just is Like, if you don't like Kilanie,
it's a you problem, right, And so that's who he
is as a person. That's who he is as a coach.
Now he wants to beat your brains in. Don't get
me wrong. I mean, Colanie is as competitive as anybody
between the lines, but when it comes to the way
he just approaches life, that's just who he is. When
Colonie was the defensive coordinator up here, I did a
coaches show with him every week, and so we became friends,
and I genuinely feel like Kilanie is somebody who I
could call if I needed.
Speaker 4: To talk to somebody.
Speaker 5: And when I had him on the show last month,
as he was exiting the interview, he said, Hey, don't
forget I love you, bro. And there's no way Kyle
would ever say that to me, even.
Speaker 4: Though I known Kyle forever.
Speaker 5: You know, It's it's just there's similarities as far as
how they believe football should be played. And I'm not
saying Kyle is not a loving, kind person. I'm just
saying Colonne is on a level that most people aren't,
let alone, coaches aren't now lost in the whole, like
Kyle wouldn't say anything about Bear. Five minutes later, he
gave an affe. You know, he was praising Colonnie effusively.
Speaker 4: You know, with a.
Speaker 5: Question he was asked five minutes after that. I can't
speak to.
Speaker 4: Why Kyle Whittingham was very willing.
Speaker 5: To break down the game of Sam Levitt and didn't
want to hear anything about Bart.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I thought that was a kind of an odd way
to approach it. But if I had to reduce it
to one thing, my guess would be there's a part
of him it's either hurt, angry, or whatever at some
of the treatment he feels like maybe he's received from
the YU fan base.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, I think, Look, we're a compilation of our anecdotes, right,
whether we want to believe that or not. In our
confirmation bias typically run strong, you know, and those experience,
those experiences cannot be you know, cast away so easily.
Speaker 2: It's just a part of who we are as humans.
Speaker 3: So I think that's point of commentary, and it's probably
accurate commentary. And I think from a BAU fan based standpoint,
I think the whole empathy of like who that person
is and what they've experienced needs to all so be discussed.
Now let me transition to this, and I think we
may have discussed it last time I had you on,
but I've gone through this debate in my mind about
the legacy of coywitting him indubitably he is the greatest
University of Utah coach all time? Right, football coach all time?
Is that legacy built more so off of winning the
rivalry in a dominant fashion? Or you know, double digit
win seasons, shared Pac twelve titles, you know some remarkable
You know that two thousand and eight season as a
head coach was remarkable, one of their best teams ever,
maybe their best team ever, et cetera. Like Where is
it more foundationally built as it pertains to maybe the
consumers right, because the media and the fans ultimately and
to a certain degree maybe with the school itself, determines
the kind of the legacy of a coach, I think,
and how they're immortalized. Is it based more so off
of dominating the rivalry game? Or is it built off
of the other wins, the double digit win seasons, the
big bowl games that they attended, etc.
Speaker 5: Do you think I think it's a few things. I
think you hit a couple of dynamics there that are important.
I think, again, not to overuse the term, but if
I could reduce it to one thing.
Speaker 4: You know, football fans in the state.
Speaker 5: Of a certain age, namely mine, our formative years were
spent watching BYU kick Utah's head in every year after
Levell took over. I think it was nineteen and two
and twenty one years after Levell took over before Mac
took the job. But when even when Mac took the
job and he and Levell became friendly and they were
doing the commercial and Utah was able to get some wins,
I think they won three straight in provo, there still
was this feeling that BYU was the better program overall
and BYU was kind of like the cooler program overall, right,
because they had the more conference championships, they had Heisman
Trophy winners, they had more NFL plas, and Matt started
to change that a little bit. So when Urban came here,
he actually made Utah football cool in a way that
it wasn't prior to him coming here.
Speaker 4: And that two.
Speaker 5: Thousand and four team, I think two thousand and four
is the best team that we've ever had in the state.
That's my opinion, certainly the best Utah team I think
by far. My two thousand and eight Utah football friends
won't love this but I think two thousand and four
stops him. But Urban was only here for a moment
in time, So there was this seminal moment where Mac
lays the foundation, Urban starts to build the house, but
then he leaves, and so then it's like, okay, wait,
we had this two year period where suddenly Utah football
was cool and they were beating BYU and they go
to a Fiesta Bowl and they stomp it and they're
undefeated and Alex Smith is the number one pick in
the draft, and like, okay, Utah Football's pool again. But
holy smokes, there's eight moments where you feel like the
guy who can continue it is with But then the
job comes open at BYU and everybody thought he was gone.
And I've had a couple like Jim Herman told the
story on my show this week that was wild. Lavelle
was being inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame
and Jim met Steve Young to drive to the ceremony together,
and when they were in the car, Witt called them
and said, I'm coming home. I'm taking the BYU job.
And they hang up and they celebrate and like, sweet
Kyle's coming back, you know, because Kyle's the guy that
both schools wanted, and everybody knew that this was the coach,
that this decision was going to be paramount to the
direction of both programs, whatever that meant.
Speaker 4: And so when Kyle said no.
Speaker 5: To BYU and yes to Utah, that will endear him
to people up here forever. Okay, and then you wrap
see two thousand and eight is very very key in
this conversation because you know, Cincinnati went to a CFP
a couple of years ago, TC like a lot of
schools Boise State at a moment time, that's a good program.
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to diminish, but there are.
Speaker 5: Plenty of schools that can find lightning in a bottle,
plenty of teams and find lightning in a bottle and
maybe have an undefeated season once and then they're back
into the ether and you never hear from them again.
The fact that Kyle was able to replicate it in
two thousand and eight and go to a Sugar Bowl
and beat Alabama of all teams, of all programs, and
to beat Alabama and do that again and be the
BCS buster and then you get the Pac twelve invite.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: So the two seminal moments that will always, in my opinion,
put Utah football in or trajectory that it took BYU
football a little while to come back from.
Speaker 4: And they're there now.
Speaker 5: Obviously they've won the last two and it's been four
years since Utah one. Are Kyle Whittingham saying no to
his alma mater and yes to the rival of aolma mater,
And then the PAC twelve didn't by becoming a reality,
and then the fact that they went to two Rose Bulls,
I mean lost both of them obviously, But I can
remember the first year in the PAC twelve. I was
doing the show at the time, as you remember, being
with Gordon Moson. It was our old show on the
old station, and we had a couple of PAC twelve
media members on our show and asked them a question,
how long until Utah goes to a Rose Bowl? And
they both said, like, oh, twenty five thirty years, right,
because so many programs in the PAC twelve had never
even gone. And the fact that it took I don't know,
six seven years, I believe, just to make the Rose Bowl.
Utah football in the Rose Bowl winning PAC twelve championship
sharing Pact twel championships, needing a bunch of things to
go their way, but nonetheless, the final result is the
final result. Just going to a Rose Bowl. You know,
there was an article written up here I think it was.
I think it was the trip that went into just
how much free publicity Rose Bull appearances are for the
institution of the University of Utah.
Speaker 4: It was like thirty three million.
Speaker 5: Eyes on Utah as a school as a result of
the football program, just going to the Rose Bowl, you know. So, Yes,
it's two thousand and eight DCS busting, it's getting invited
to the Pac twelve, it's winning at a high level.
But don't underestimate the impact of that seminal moment when
Kyle said no to BYU and yes to Utah, and
what that meant to people up here that lived a
generation of BYU football being better than Utah, being cooler
than Utah, and more or less beating Utah had to
head almost every single year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, you know, powerful commentary. I think you're spot on,
And what I'll I'd have wrinkle to it that I
don't know if we'll ever know unless Kyle would speak
to it on record, But I often wonder you know
what Lavelle advised Kyle.
Speaker 2: To do in the those moments.
Speaker 3: Remember Lavelle was, you know, he you know, I remember
hearing you know, mostly rumor, right, and they're from second
hand sources that were like his personal assistant and kind
of our second mom while we were there as BAU
football players. She stated, like, you know, Lavelle had yag
grown tired, but there was kind of a movement in
upper campus that disallowed his involvement with mentorship with players
going through maybe honor code or academic issues.
Speaker 2: Right, what does a football coach do?
Speaker 3: You know, you know you've been coached before, they mentor
they advise, they rear you as an extension of your family.
That's what a great coach is traditionally done. And I
wonder if Lavell said, look, this is the state of
BYU athletics right now.
Speaker 2: It's great, it's marvelous. There's all these special things.
Speaker 3: But where which institution is moving in the direction of
like high level winning and support institutionally? And I wonder
if maybe there is is a you know, there was
something there that he that that Kyle kind of after
discussing it further with Levell, maybe he decided, Hey, you know,
I'm gonna I'm gonna go to the university. I think
it would be interesting. I don't know if it happened,
but I wonder. I mean, Lavell had to have been
consulted in those moments and his opinion had to have mattered, right.
Speaker 4: That would be my guess.
Speaker 5: But a couple of things. I think that in that
moment after so after two thousand and four, when Urban
came here and changed everything, created the muss created language
that is still used to this day. Team down South
brought a very Michigan, Ohio state feel to it. You know,
that two year period cannot go without being talked about
and acknowledged in a very very seminal important way because
what that did, in addition to some initiatives at the
university research institutions on one, Utah football was then on
the radar of the PAC twelve right in a way
that BYU football just wasn't for a myriad of different
reasons that we get into and I know some people
aren't comfortable with the whole like, yeah, they're just not
going to be into a religious school. It's not a
cultural fit, it's not a political fit.
Speaker 4: You can be uncomfortable with.
Speaker 5: It all you want, but that's part of the deal.
So I'm sure Kyle saw, wait a second, there's a
chance that we will get a P five And obviously
now it's before, but there's a chance that this could
be a P five institution. And any football coach would
know if it's staying in a Mountain West or going
independent as BYU did, or getting an invite to the
PAC twelve. If you're a coach and you want the
best chance to win, and you want the best chance
to make money, let's be honest, the PAC twelve fit
is going to be your preference. And by the way,
speaking of money, I'm sure well I know that there
were Utah boosters that in the twenty fourth hour came
to Doc Trail and said.
Speaker 4: How much is it going to take to keep them?
Speaker 5: So there was a check written and and Kyle was
paid to coach here in a way that BYU just
wasn't going to pay him. And look, I adhere to
the golden rule. Man, we all know the golden rules.
You know what the golden rule is?
Speaker 2: What is the golden rule?
Speaker 5: Well, we know the classic definition of the golden rule. Right,
do one to other's all that stuff and all that's great,
you should do that. Okay, In fact, this week, let's
all it's all adhere to that golden rule. But the
other golden rule that you learn as you age and
certainly understand this business is the man with the gold
makes the rules. Okay, there's your golden rule. The man
with the gold makes the rules. So the monetary compensation
that went received to stay here is certainly part of
the equation, but definitely understanding that the Pac twelve was
a potential reality for Utah football in the way that
it was never going to be for by I mean, look,
Bronco left because he got paid, but he also left
because independence was going to be a really tough route, right,
And so I'm sure part of that was steeked in
Kyle's decision making process.
Speaker 4: Was the Bell involved, I honestly don't know.
Speaker 5: To your point, it would be pretty criminal if you
don't kick the tires on what a legend like that thinks.
But it's been interesting, you know, to have this two
decade run with with up here and to see what
he's built, and I think this is probably it for him,
which is another topic we can get into as you want,
but I honestly don't know.
Speaker 4: We have to see.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't wait to see what happens if Kyle
goes out a winner in this game.
Speaker 2: I think he retires if he.
Speaker 3: Doesn't get a win at Lavelle Edwards Stadium. Man, he
could be trying to come back for another one, to
give it one last shot. Spence Check its ladies and
gentlemen to drive on ESPN seven hundred, follow him on
X for all of his takes, and listen to him
on the radio on the stream on his podcast Spence
We Solutionally. We appreciate you man, thanks for joining us
today for an insider slash know the faux segment.
Speaker 5: Was a pleasure.
Speaker 4: Man had a great week with chats stand Okay.
Speaker 3: My pleasure, my blessings, Bence Check's ladies and gentlemen. That
was brought to you by rubys nd rubies in dot
com Head on over to rubies in dot com Forts
last nine sixty get twenty percent off your staycation at
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Speaker 2: We'll take a brief time out, We'll be back.
Speaker 3: This is Cougar Sports on one of three nine ninety
eight point three ESPN the Fan.
Speaker 1: This is Cougar Sports with Ben Krittle on esp and
it's time for Keeping Up with the Cougars. Brought to
you by Dental prodem Utah dot com.
Speaker 4: I don't like it.
Speaker 6: In fact, I hate everything about I hate the program,
I hate their fans, I hate everything.
Speaker 2: So it felt really good to send those guys home.
Speaker 6: They didn't deserve it. It was our time and it
was our time to win. We deserved it. We played
as hard as we could tonight and it felt really
good again to send him home, to get him out
of here.
Speaker 4: So you know, game we always remember.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think I think their whole I think
the whole university and their fans, and then the organization
is classless.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 6: You know, they throw they threw the beer on my
family and stuff last year and did a whole bunch
of nasty things, and I don't respect them, and you
know they deserve to.
Speaker 2: They deserve There you go, let's get into it.
Speaker 3: A little Keeping up at the Cougar sement brought to
you by Dental Pros of Utah. Dentalprosoutah dot com. If
you've been told you need a filling a crown.
Speaker 2: And rooking out.
Speaker 3: All I'm asking you to do is get a second
opinion at Dental pros of Utah in American Fork. All right,
let's welcome in the winning his quarterback and be what
you football history and arguably the most competitive my teammate.
We got Max Hall on the line right now, Maximus,
how the heck are you, buddy?
Speaker 4: I'm doing great. Good to be on guys. I always
tell people this is my most famous week of the
year right here. Everybody wants to talk to me. I
love that.
Speaker 3: Hey, I'd like to talk to you throughout the year.
That's uh, you know, but I do know I do
enjoy talking ball with my brother, you know, on rivalry week.
So Max, always a pleasure, always a blessing getting you
on our airwaves.
Speaker 2: It's a special week, man.
Speaker 3: What makes rivalry so special versus maybe some of the
other rivalry games, because look, you grew up in Arizona.
Speaker 2: I group in Arizona.
Speaker 3: We saw the U of ASU rivalry, right, and that
was a that was a great rivalry obviously, but the
bau Utah one just is built a little bit different.
Speaker 4: It is, and I think the obvious things are you know,
there's no professional team in Utah. You know. Uh, there's
obviously the religious factor to it, and so many families,
they're split families in the state. It's just it's become
just part of the culture I think of the state
of Utah and really outside of it too, But in
the state is I think where the rivalry really gets
as heated as it does. And so I grew up
in the Asuu of a rivalry which is a heated rivalry.
But I don't know, Man, the BYU Utah thing just
it gets, it gets taken to the next level. And
obviously I've been a part of that. I'd been a
cause of that. But I think right now, going into
this year, what's so special about it is how well
both teams are doing. They're playing at a high level.
Both teams have breaks, quarterbacks, great quarterback play. That's what
you want to see. I think it's going to be
an exciting, electric, big time football game. I think the
atmosphere is going to be great, and so I just
think it's a good time for to be a cougar
and of you, to be honest with you, And so
I think hopefully going into this week, we can talk trash,
we can get into it but at the end of
the day, realize it's a football game, and there's things
in life that are bigger. But but this game is
at the top of the list as far as it
gets as college football rivalry.
Speaker 3: It's so special, man, It's a great game. I didn't
realize the seriousness of it until I arrived and played
in it myself. I don't know if that was a
good thing or a bad thing. I wasn't necessarily emotionally
attached to this particular game until I played in it,
and then it became even more valuable for me. And
so I'm looking at like Bear, for instance, who hasn't
played in this game and didn't grow up a BYU
fan and wasn't familiar with the BYU Utah game, And
I'm like, is that a good thing or a bad
thing for a quarterback to head into this game with
no real knowledge of the volatility, the the the components,
the the history all of it, uh the emotion that
is involved in this game.
Speaker 4: I think he could be beneficial to where he doesn't
he doesn't build the game to what too up and
put too much pressure on himself. You know what I'm saying.
And that you say you want to treat it like
any other game, prepare like any other game. But that's
not the case. It's different. You got to prepare for
the noise. You got to prepare for the animosity. You
got to prepare for the for the change of possessions,
the sudden changes, the turnovers, the things. How are you
going to handle your emotions? Like everything is just raised
a little bit in these games, and you and the
team that usually can manage that the best is the
team that wins. And I always say, obviously the team
that can make plays in French time to win. But
I just think you can't treat it like that. And
this game is special. But I think Bear's going to
be fine. Okay, I haven't played in the game yet,
but hey, we're playing really good football right now. I
got a good defense behind me, I got a really
good running back. Things are good. I just need to
stay consistent, play my game, and I think BYU is
the better team and will win.
Speaker 3: How important is it the twelve is the twelfth man
in this game? It's at home versus your rival, the
twelfth man, the roar of the cougars, the royal army.
How important is it for the fans to be involved
the entirety of the game.
Speaker 4: I think it's huge and it's just like seeing how
much different it is even then, you know, when I
when we played back in the day, I just think
with the student section and everything, the production that BYU
puts on for these games is just phenomenal. Man. It's
so much fun to be at. And as a player,
I think you feed off that energy. You feed off
the crowd for good or bad, and so I think
they're gonna need that. I think they're gonna need the
crowd to stay in it, be loud on defense because
in a game like that, they can affect the other team.
And I think we're gonna, you know, any chance that
we can have them do that would be great. So
it's going to be a great atmosphere.
Speaker 3: Man, Max all here on ESPN the Fan, your your
favorite rivalry moment and why.
Speaker 4: Well, I don't think that's a That's an easy one
for me. I think I think obviously the moment is
the is the overtime win. You know, my senior year
and uh you know we my sophomore year, throwing that
fourth and eighteen pass and then going down and scoring
was phenomenal. Too. But it's just funny. I've been on
both ends of the rivalry because Mice junior year going
up to Utah, I had all those turnovers and we
lost and that was embarrassing and I had to live
with that for a year. And that's why there was
so much emotion built up for me going into that
game my senior year because of all the trash talking
and everything I had to hear from the year before
with how bad I played with the with the turnovers
and so winning that game just it was just you
worked so hard, you want it so much, and for
it to happen was just like, man, the feeling is unbelievable.
And I think all all those emotions just pore out
of you at that point. So it was it was
a pretty special moment. I mean, you think of when
you're growing up as a kid, do you think of
you know, when you're in the backyard you're making up plays,
you think of, Hey, you're in overtime, you got to
throw this pass to win the game for a touchdown.
And it happens and Ben, that was my last play
well Edwards Stadium right there, That's how we went out.
So it's a special moment.
Speaker 2: Dude, dude, just so immortalized. Man so fantastic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know it took a while to like
after all the momentum, all the all that that that
win and the movement of Utah going to the PAC twelve.
It also flip man BYU was the big dog right
for so long and then Utah dominated from twenty ten
to two thousand and twenty one, nine straight wins. The
you know, Jared Hall and that BA Cougar football team
at home was able to finally break it. And now people,
he's on a two game winning streak. How do you
think they get to three games? These two teams match
up very similarly. They look similar statistically, their rankings are
similar across offensive and defensive stats. What's gonna be the
difference at home for the Cougars on Saturday?
Speaker 4: Honestly, it's gonna be Bet. It's gonna be Bear if
he can stay consistent and he can keep doing playing
the way he's playing. I think A Rodd's is doing
a phenomenal job with play calling and putting him in
good situations to make plays and letting him use his
athleticism when he needs to, and not putting too much
on him. You know, let's use the guys around him
as much as we can. And then obviously it's gonna
be consistency giving the ball to the running back and
consistency in the running game. But if Bear can show
his maturity that he showed this first half of the season,
and he can keep the game slow, he can see
it and he can execute it and try not to
do too much to where he's turning the ball over
or putting his team in bad situations. I truly believe.
I think across the board by use a better team
and they should get to win. On top of that,
we're man the atmosphere. I just think everything's in favor
of the Kogs.
Speaker 3: It's a great day for Cougar football right byusing the
big twelve year three their top twenty five, back to
back seasons in which they've started six to oher this
has never been done before, even in your era, my era,
the era of.
Speaker 2: The seventies and eighties.
Speaker 3: And so, what is the trajectory of this Cougar football
program right now under Kolane, with the resources both internally
and then externally with nil what's the potential here that
we're talking about with BYU football in the years to come.
Speaker 4: Oh, there's no limit on it. You know. It's kind
of funny. I was sitting here with my son this morning.
I was getting ready to take him. He had waits
this morning, and we were watching ESPN and they were
talking about the college football bracket and they were putting
all their teams up on there sitting there, and I'm like,
BYU wasn't up there, And I'm sitting in myself, and
I really believe.
Speaker 5: I'm like, b Y, you should be up there.
Speaker 4: And I think that is the next step for BYU.
I mean, I think we win if we can win
a conference championship, number one, and then there's no reason
why BYU shouldn't be considered one of the top teams
in the country every single year. With the program. They have,
the coaching staff, we have the momentum that the program
has right now, continue to have great recruiting. I just
think that there's potential for us to be, you know,
one of those top top twelve teams every single year.
Speaker 3: When you look at is what has made Utah great
And you have to give a lot of credit to
Kyle Whittingham, the culture that he's created. He's a former
BYU Cougar himself. He's created a culture, a team that
produces a high level defense, special teams, and they's a
coal physical offenses that are pretty balanced, but more maybe
run heavy. When you look at what Kyle's built and
what he's been able to accomplish up there, like what
stands out to you since he took over the head
coaching job in two thousand and five.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I think you know, obviously with my with
my comments and my moment with Utah and directed towards them,
you know, it's people never really asked me my feelings
on it. But there's one thing I do have, and
that is a ton of respect for Kyle winning help.
The guy is a phenomenal football coach. I mean, there's
a reason why he's been there that long and had
the success that he's had at Utah. He knows how
to build a culture, he knows how to build a program,
He's got good coaches in there, He's brought in great players,
and to consistently do it year in and year out.
That is hard to do at any level. That is
hard to do. And so I think the guy is
gonna I mean, obviously he's gonna go down as one
of the greatest Collish football coaches in history. And I
just think it's amazing what he's accomplished there at his career,
and so got a ton of respect for Kyle and
what he's done. And I know he's getting older and
I don't know how much longer he's planning on being there,
but uh, you know, when his days are done at Utah,
when he decides to step down, he's going to deserve
a lot of recognition for his accompliment accomplishments.
Speaker 3: If he doesn't get a win at Lavelle, do you
think he retires after this year?
Speaker 2: Do you think he comes back? Give it one.
Speaker 3: He can't go out with a three game losing streak.
He's got to go out with a win versus b Yu.
Speaker 4: I mean that everybody's different in that aspect. Man. I mean,
you should call him. You should call him and ask
him that question.
Speaker 5: Because I can't.
Speaker 4: I can't answer that question for him. But does does
does a win for him make it easier to step away?
I think so absolutely? Does a loss kind of put
it in the back of your head that you know,
I can't go out like that sort of a thing.
Then maybe, but he may say, look the body of
work that I've put in over years. You know, whether
we lost to BYU or not my last year, I
don't think matters when you look at the body of work.
So that's a good question for him to answer, though,
So let me know what he says.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will in the in the post game, we'll
be sure to ask him that wherever the cookie crumbles right,
whichever the ball, whichever direction the ball bounces in this game,
what has stood out to you about this b WHATYU
football team this year that makes you a believer of
what they're building under Kalani. Like, when you're watching these games,
obviously you're gonna have eyes on quarterback play, in the offense,
et cetera.
Speaker 2: But let's talk collectively. What do you see? What do
you like?
Speaker 4: I just I like the attitude of the team. I
like the I like the vibe, I like the energy.
I like the I think the attitude is the best
way to put it. You watch them, just how they play,
how they correspond with each other. You watch the coaches
on the sideline and how they coach the kids, how
they respond to the coaches.
Speaker 5: You can just tell that.
Speaker 4: There's an around BYU football that there's an energy, a
super positive environment that Klani has created that makes kids
want to work their tails off and be the best
that they can as players and do it for the team.
But it's also a very team centered, unselfish environment, and
I think he's brought in the right players and the
right staff.
Speaker 5: That buy into that.
Speaker 4: And when you have buy into something like that, you
can create something special. You've got to have the right
guy leading it. You got to have the right guy
setting the standard and following it. And Kline Sataki again
has done a great job of that. And you can
see the potential and the progression of this program. And so,
like we said before, it's an exciting time to be
a Cougar. I think that we only go up from
here as we continue to get better players in and
more experience in this conference. And so, like I said,
I think the staff, everything, it's just there's a vibe. Man.
Sometimes it's hard to explain it, but there's definitely a
vibe and an energy that's very positive around the program
right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's been some players over the last decade during
the independence there's a few years off, right some players
didn't get to play this game and experience this game
on both sides of the ball. I find that that's
kind of a disservice to the student athlete.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: We talk about all the things that make college football great,
you know, high school football, football in general grade, it's
the rivalry games.
Speaker 2: That's what makes the best games.
Speaker 3: I mean, when you think about your favorite moments as
a college football player, I mean, the rivalry game has
to be at the top. I mean, are there any
other games experiences that rival a rivalry game?
Speaker 4: The only one would be a championship game, you know
what I'm saying, a championship conference game or obviously a
playoff game. But other than that, when you have a
rivalry like the BYU Utah rivalry, it's big no matter what,
because every year that game means something, and no matter
what the records are, no matter how each team is doing,
whatever data set for the by U Utah game, it's
a big game and people care about that game no
matter what. So that's what's so special about it is
there will never be a dull vibe around that game.
There will always be excitement, there will be competitiveness, there
will be trash talking. It's just the whole thing is fantastic,
and I just think it's special and these players should
feel lucky that they get to be a part of
this tradition and part of this game. So hopefully they
just go out this weekend and and and feed off
that energy and give it everything they got and execute
and come on with a win.
Speaker 3: Max hal here on ESP and the Fan a little
keeping up with the Cougars, brought to you by Dental
Pros of Utah in American Fork. Max, give us an
update on work and family, personal life.
Speaker 2: Give us an update.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, man, I know Hauls are doing great. You know,
my my son's a freshman and killing it on the
front Gishman team as a quarterback down here. And my
daughter is a big time pickleball player. We get to
we're in the pickleball scene with her Kenzie still running
her plate studios and so things are doing really good.
I have my time with Ala has come to an end,
so I'm no longer coaching there and right now I'm
on the look, so I've I've already talked to a
few different places and have a few teams set up,
but I have a few more coming up that I
think are going to be hopefully some good opportunities for me.
But but I'm open. So if you know of anybody
looking for a coach, you know, let me know. But
I'm interested in talking to anybody right now.
Speaker 2: Well, hey, I put out some fielders.
Speaker 3: I'm like, bro, how would you like Max All as
a coach or even an analyst? These days, the analysts
aren't making They're making some good money too, and you
can coach, right, You can now get hands on. Before
analysts were just kind of like in the booth advising
and game prep and someff like that, and now they can,
they can coach. What about come back to the alma
mater and helping out?
Speaker 4: I would I would love that. If it be what
he wants me to come back and help, I absolutely
would jump on that. You know, I actually finished my
degree here in December, which will allow me to go
coach in college. I just I never I never knew
if I was going to make that jump or not.
But if I have an opportunity to do it, I
would love to come back to be with you in
some capacity, whether it's an analysis or whatever. But if
they want me, you know, I shouldn't sit down and
talking to them right now, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3: So you did, do you have a like an idealistic situation.
You mentioned you're getting your degree, which will open up
opportunities to coach at the collegiate level.
Speaker 2: Without that, was.
Speaker 3: It a little bit difficult to get into the college
coaching world and was that a barrier of entry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And to be honest with you, I wasn't really
sure if I wanted to. I wasn't. I wasn't sure.
You know, I had young kids growing up, and I
wanted to spend time with them and coach them and
be a dad to them. But as my kids get
older and they're in high school and getting ready to graduate,
you know that that that idea changes. And I always
thought that one day I would probably try to go
back to college. And I think maybe this is God
telling me, Hey, it's that time. It's that time to
uh to do it. So everything's kind of lining up
for it to happen. Now. I just have to, you know,
see if there's somebody out there that wants my help
and would like me to come in and be part
of the program.
Speaker 3: Love that, Yeah, is like high school football is special though, right,
I mean, you've experienced now for a years like you
you get, it's less. I mean, there's definitely a professional
aspect now in the modern era, and there's a highly
competitive aspect as well, but it's still kind of that
baseline foundational mentorship, coaching, faith, family football.
Speaker 2: They're a little bit more malleable. The clay's more valuable.
Speaker 3: Even the parents still listen, even when you know they
may not want to loosen to coaching from the coach anyway,
There's there's still some altruism there.
Speaker 2: It would that be difficult to leave.
Speaker 4: Well, that's absolutely you know, I've been at that school
for eleven years and helped build that thing from a
from a little two H charter school up to uh,
you know, a six A powerhouse and we've been in
the open the last few years and things have just
been rolling. And so that's that's hard to step away
from high school football. You know, we all say it's
the purest form of the game. It's where you're playing
for your brothers, you're playing for your town, you're playing
for your community, and the communities involved, and the parents
are involved. It's just a different vibe than moving on
to college, where now it's just more business like now,
especially with all the NIL and transfer portal stuff, it's
just more of a business like the NFL. In high school,
you still get that that brotherhood and that love and
that community and let's go out and play and fight
for each other. So that's what I'll miss the most
about it, But also just being around those kids. Man,
you get your around these sixteen seven teen year old kids.
I'm fourteen, fifteen, sixty seventeen, and they're going through life. Man,
They're going through things. They're going through hardships that sometimes
only a coach can be there for. And so having
the opportunity to mentor kids and be there for them
and help them through not just football but just life.
Having them coming to my office all the time and
hang around and just helping them whether they end up
going and serving missions for the church or going to
college or getting jobs. That's what you miss about it
the most, is the relationships and all that. So that'll
be hard. But I also know that my mind and
my football ability as a coach belongs in college. I
think I think the high school game is great, but
I think I have the mind to be in college
and to help compete at that level. And I know
I can, so I'm also very anxious to test that
and to see how well I can do at the
next level if I have that opportunity.
Speaker 3: Max Hall, ladies and gentlemen, winning his quarterback can be
what you football history. Are you going to be attending
the Holy World this weekend? By chance, you're going to
be in town.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, man. We've leave tomorrow morning, flying out there tomorrow,
be hanging around a little bit on Friday, you know,
go say hi to the players and coaches and stuff,
and then definitely we'll be there on Saturday. I think
I think Dave's having me do something on the show,
on the pregame show, so I might do a little
bit something there and can't wait. Man, it's going to
be so much fun. Love it.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 3: We'll see you down there in provo. Give me a scorportation.
How do you think this game plays out onto the
lights of level? How do you think EAU competes?
Speaker 4: Ooh, I think we can pee. I think BAU wins by.
I think we win by ten or fourteen points. I
have you know, and I say those scores is probably
high twenties, low thirty somewhere in there. But I think
we pull it off by ten to fourteen points tonight.
Speaker 3: I love it. Man, would love to see that. Ronnie,
what do you got?
Speaker 1: I just want Max to know that we want to
know already on getting people hired by Blu.
Speaker 2: It might take some time to lord timing.
Speaker 1: But Travis Hansen we punked, we prognosticated, you know, he said, hey, look,
it needs to happen.
Speaker 2: So I think Max will eventually be a bye. As
they say, bring him home, Bring him home, Max.
Speaker 4: Bring him home.
Speaker 2: Appreciate Thank you, buddy, Max, Appreciate you. I much love
to you and your family.
Speaker 4: Thanks, guys, appreciate it. Man.
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