WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Big believer in crypto and in the technology and the

2
00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:06.519
<v Speaker 1>potential of this technology to do all the things I'm

3
00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:09.919
<v Speaker 1>talking about twenty four to seven market is access, democratization, etc.

4
00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:13.000
<v Speaker 1>One thing that keeps me awake at night around this

5
00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:16.879
<v Speaker 1>technology is security. How often have we seen a startup

6
00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:20.120
<v Speaker 1>be hacked by a state sponsored actor? And when a

7
00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.239
<v Speaker 1>state sponsored actor goes after a startup and tries to

8
00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:25.640
<v Speaker 1>hack them, guess what the startup's going to lose.

9
00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:34.000
<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by bitgo, the trusted

10
00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:38.640
<v Speaker 2>infrastructure behind the digital asset economy. If you're serious about crypto,

11
00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:42.240
<v Speaker 2>whether you're an investor, institution, or building in this space,

12
00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:46.479
<v Speaker 2>you already know security, compliance, and execution are everything. And

13
00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:49.920
<v Speaker 2>that's exactly what bitco delivers. With over a decade of

14
00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:54.439
<v Speaker 2>experience and fifty five hundred plus institutional clients across one

15
00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:58.119
<v Speaker 2>hundred plus countries, bitgo provides a full suite of services

16
00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:03.799
<v Speaker 2>including qualified custody, trading, staking, financing, and stable coin infrastructure,

17
00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:07.000
<v Speaker 2>all in one platform. Let's break it down, want to

18
00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:11.439
<v Speaker 2>launch crypto services fast? Bitgoes Crypto as a service lets banks,

19
00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.480
<v Speaker 2>FinTechs and platforms go live in as little as a

20
00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:18.719
<v Speaker 2>couple of months without dealing with complex licensing or infrastructure.

21
00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:21.719
<v Speaker 2>If you're looking to launch a stable coin, bidgo offers

22
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:25.319
<v Speaker 2>a complete stable coin as a service platform, from reserves

23
00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:29.359
<v Speaker 2>and smart contracts to compliance, built to align with the

24
00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:32.719
<v Speaker 2>new US regulatory framework. That is the genius at want

25
00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:36.200
<v Speaker 2>to earn rewards on your crypto. Bitgo runs one of

26
00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:40.680
<v Speaker 2>the largest institutional staking platforms, with tens of billions staked

27
00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:45.000
<v Speaker 2>across fifty plus networks. All while your assets stays securely

28
00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:49.879
<v Speaker 2>in qualified custody. Need deep liquidity and execution, Their trading

29
00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:54.400
<v Speaker 2>platform aggregates liquidity across thirty plus venues, giving you better

30
00:01:54.439 --> 00:01:58.040
<v Speaker 2>pricing and the ability to trade directly from custody. No

31
00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:01.840
<v Speaker 2>pre funding required for approved clients, and if you need capital,

32
00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:06.280
<v Speaker 2>bitgo offers crypto backed financing so you can unlock liquidity

33
00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:09.400
<v Speaker 2>without selling your assets. So here's the bottom line. Bitco

34
00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:13.520
<v Speaker 2>is one of the first federally chartered digital asset infrastructure companies,

35
00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:18.479
<v Speaker 2>offering regulated, insured custody and a platform built for institutions

36
00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:22.199
<v Speaker 2>but accessible to for thinking players across the space. So

37
00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:25.520
<v Speaker 2>whether you're scaling a fintech, managing a fund, or building

38
00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:28.599
<v Speaker 2>the future of finance, bitco gives you all the tools

39
00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:32.120
<v Speaker 2>that you need to do this securely, compliantly, and at scale.

40
00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.000
<v Speaker 2>So learn more at bitgo dot com and see why

41
00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:39.199
<v Speaker 2>the biggest players in crypto trust Bitgo. Hi, everyone, welcome

42
00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:42.319
<v Speaker 2>into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm Tony Edward and I'm

43
00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:45.599
<v Speaker 2>Amanda Wickcroft and joining us today is Chris Perkins, who

44
00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:49.120
<v Speaker 2>is the CEO of two fifty Digital Asset Management, which

45
00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:52.879
<v Speaker 2>is a spinout of coin Fun Liquid Strategies. Chris, great

46
00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:53.599
<v Speaker 2>to have you back.

47
00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.479
<v Speaker 3>On Tony and Amanda, So good to see you guys.

48
00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:59.439
<v Speaker 3>How's it going? Very good? Happy Friday.

49
00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:02.199
<v Speaker 2>We're recording us on Friday, May eighth, and excited to

50
00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:06.039
<v Speaker 2>dive into the big news around Franklin, crypto and much more.

51
00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:08.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, me too. Happy Friday to you.

52
00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:11.879
<v Speaker 2>So Chris, why don't we start with two fifty Digital

53
00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:16.360
<v Speaker 2>tell us about how this acquisition came about and what's

54
00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:17.159
<v Speaker 2>the mission here?

55
00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:18.479
<v Speaker 3>Right?

56
00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:22.599
<v Speaker 1>So I'll start by saying we are absolutely up to

57
00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:25.439
<v Speaker 1>our eyeballs in this thing I like to call the

58
00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:30.879
<v Speaker 1>institutional era of crypto. If you've noticed, crypto to date

59
00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:34.680
<v Speaker 1>has really been largely a retail phenomena, and the institutions

60
00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:36.840
<v Speaker 1>have kind of come, they've kind of gone. They're trying

61
00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:38.479
<v Speaker 1>to figure it out. Maybe a couple of them dip

62
00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:41.680
<v Speaker 1>their toe in the pool in twenty one, some of

63
00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:45.280
<v Speaker 1>them got burned. But I think it's fair to say

64
00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:48.840
<v Speaker 1>that the institutional era of crypto is upon us in

65
00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:49.840
<v Speaker 1>a major, major way.

66
00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:51.199
<v Speaker 3>And why is that.

67
00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:57.080
<v Speaker 1>It's because now you have a favorable regulatory climate. And again,

68
00:03:57.280 --> 00:04:01.879
<v Speaker 1>most institutions they're more than comfortable using technology, they're more

69
00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:05.599
<v Speaker 1>than comfortable investing in assets, but they don't like taking

70
00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:09.000
<v Speaker 1>reputational risk. And I think a lot of that has

71
00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:12.039
<v Speaker 1>come off the table now with what we're seeing the

72
00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:15.800
<v Speaker 1>progress around Clarity Act and regulations and everything else. And

73
00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:20.560
<v Speaker 1>so with that Clarity no pun intended, they're comfortable in

74
00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:23.079
<v Speaker 1>entering the space in a major, major way.

75
00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:24.079
<v Speaker 3>And so as.

76
00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:26.079
<v Speaker 1>Retail's kind of like come and gone, and now i'd

77
00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.560
<v Speaker 1>say they're they're kind of out of the picture right now,

78
00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:30.639
<v Speaker 1>but they're thinking about coming back in because like the

79
00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.360
<v Speaker 1>conditions that are hard to argue, it's pretty favorable set up.

80
00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:36.120
<v Speaker 3>The institutions have continued to march forward.

81
00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:41.000
<v Speaker 1>And so with that in mind, Franklin Templeton announced in

82
00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.680
<v Speaker 1>April first that they were acquiring two fifty Digital, which

83
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:46.519
<v Speaker 1>is a spin off of my last company on our

84
00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:51.120
<v Speaker 1>liquid strategies, and they've also announced that once that deal closes,

85
00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:54.399
<v Speaker 1>I will be the new head of Franklin Crypto along

86
00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:58.639
<v Speaker 1>with my partner Sethkins and then Tony piccor And our

87
00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:02.040
<v Speaker 1>job now is to really you know, I talked about

88
00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:05.680
<v Speaker 1>the institutional error and how it's so important. These are

89
00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:09.560
<v Speaker 1>businesses of scale, and the fact of the matter is

90
00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:12.279
<v Speaker 1>is that I don't care who you are. Right now

91
00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:16.560
<v Speaker 1>around the world, there's probably more risk in not having

92
00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:21.120
<v Speaker 1>a crypto strategy than in the past. You had all

93
00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:23.120
<v Speaker 1>this risk for being in this space, like we all

94
00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.560
<v Speaker 1>lived it, right, we would get slammed and attacked, But

95
00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:29.959
<v Speaker 1>now you actually have risk for not having a crypto strategy.

96
00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:34.360
<v Speaker 1>And so wouldn't it be great if institutions around the world,

97
00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:38.720
<v Speaker 1>as they're thinking about strategies and ways to gain exposure

98
00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:41.839
<v Speaker 1>to our asset class, to partner with people that have

99
00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:44.680
<v Speaker 1>been around and very native for a long time, but

100
00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:52.319
<v Speaker 1>also now reinforced with the most robust set of institutional

101
00:05:52.399 --> 00:06:00.879
<v Speaker 1>support groups, whether I'm talking about compliance, operations, regulatory policy folks, right,

102
00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:03.879
<v Speaker 1>that is the reinforce, Like we can bring all the

103
00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.959
<v Speaker 1>nativity in the world. But you bring that together with

104
00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:11.519
<v Speaker 1>like enterprise, robustness and controls and like it's it's a

105
00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.839
<v Speaker 1>very very powerful combination. So our goal is to be

106
00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:18.480
<v Speaker 1>that trusted agent. Our goal is to say, guys, we

107
00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:21.199
<v Speaker 1>have You know, the Franklin Templeton brand is without question,

108
00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:23.519
<v Speaker 1>one of the best in the space. They've been into

109
00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:27.480
<v Speaker 1>space since twenty eighteen. They have the vision. I spent

110
00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:30.639
<v Speaker 1>a lot of time with with some time with Jenny

111
00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.720
<v Speaker 1>Johnson last week at the Milkan conference. Daniel Gaba that

112
00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:37.120
<v Speaker 1>the president of Franklin Templeton, and he was up there

113
00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:40.360
<v Speaker 1>on his panel talking about the power of tokenization. So

114
00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.560
<v Speaker 1>here's an institution that's all in. They've put all their

115
00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:45.879
<v Speaker 1>chips on the table. They've asked us to come and

116
00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:49.079
<v Speaker 1>be part of that incredible growth that we all expect.

117
00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:52.639
<v Speaker 1>And I'm telling you, I couldn't be more excited.

118
00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.639
<v Speaker 4>Your new role as CEO, Chris, are you So, does

119
00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.639
<v Speaker 4>that mean you're still connected to coin fund? Explain to

120
00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:02.560
<v Speaker 4>us how that works with this acquisition.

121
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:09.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so exactly upon once once the deal has closed,

122
00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:12.759
<v Speaker 1>and that should be imminently, then I'll move from from

123
00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:16.399
<v Speaker 1>my previous shop into Franklin Templeton as a full time.

124
00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.160
<v Speaker 4>What's the mission of two fifty Digital Investments Strategy.

125
00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:27.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So as we transition into Franklin Crypto, our mission

126
00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.360
<v Speaker 1>is to be exactly what I'm what I talked about.

127
00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:33.560
<v Speaker 1>So we want to be we want to help our

128
00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:39.879
<v Speaker 1>clients around the world solve for their entrance into this

129
00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:41.160
<v Speaker 1>space we call crypto.

130
00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:42.240
<v Speaker 3>Now.

131
00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:48.279
<v Speaker 1>It's it's really interesting because the line between native crypto

132
00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:54.800
<v Speaker 1>craziness and traditional finance is blurring. And so whether it

133
00:07:54.800 --> 00:08:01.399
<v Speaker 1>comes down to you know, tokenization or that access to

134
00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:05.240
<v Speaker 1>products that they're that they're looking for exposure to. We

135
00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:07.519
<v Speaker 1>want to be that trusted agent. We want to solve

136
00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:12.639
<v Speaker 1>for their investment needs in this space and and and

137
00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:15.800
<v Speaker 1>be that you know, trusted agent as they navigate into

138
00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:18.959
<v Speaker 1>this this new world, this really exciting new world. Right,

139
00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:21.959
<v Speaker 1>We're about to tokenize one hundred and twenty seven trillion

140
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.560
<v Speaker 1>dollar equity market cap. You know, the world is going

141
00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:27.680
<v Speaker 1>in that direction. How's that going to work? How are

142
00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:28.879
<v Speaker 1>you going to pay for that stuff? What are the

143
00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:30.319
<v Speaker 1>rails that are going to live on? What are the

144
00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:34.240
<v Speaker 1>new opportunities that you're going to see? And so, you know,

145
00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:35.799
<v Speaker 1>we've been in this space for a long time. We've

146
00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:38.919
<v Speaker 1>been immersed in this encrypto to our eyeballs for for

147
00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.360
<v Speaker 1>years and years and years, and so hopefully we can

148
00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:44.559
<v Speaker 1>lend our expertise, you know, not only our expertise in crypto,

149
00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:47.759
<v Speaker 1>but our expertise in traditional market's. Pretty much everyone on

150
00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:50.720
<v Speaker 1>the team has some kind of background in traditional markets

151
00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:52.360
<v Speaker 1>as well, and so I think the goal is to

152
00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:54.919
<v Speaker 1>kind of be that Rosetta stone, be able to translate

153
00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:58.480
<v Speaker 1>and be able to explain and make it easy for

154
00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:02.360
<v Speaker 1>our clients. Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm the

155
00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:04.879
<v Speaker 1>host of the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to ask

156
00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.279
<v Speaker 1>you if you can please support the podcast by hitting

157
00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.799
<v Speaker 1>the like button subscribing. If you haven't as yet, you

158
00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:11.960
<v Speaker 1>can leave a comment below as well. And if you're

159
00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:14.879
<v Speaker 1>listening on a podcast platform such as Spotify, Apple or

160
00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:17.960
<v Speaker 1>wherever you get your podcasts, please be sure to follow

161
00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:20.240
<v Speaker 1>and hit the five star rating. I'll let you get

162
00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:22.639
<v Speaker 1>back to the content. Thank you so much so, Chris.

163
00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:25.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming you're gonna be working closely with Roger Basin

164
00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:29.080
<v Speaker 2>and Sandy Call, both of who great people, very smart,

165
00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.519
<v Speaker 2>and they are adding your brilliant mind to the team

166
00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:31.960
<v Speaker 2>as well.

167
00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:35.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't know about my brilliant mind, but some of

168
00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:38.879
<v Speaker 1>the minds that you spoke about are certainly brilliant. And yeah,

169
00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:40.960
<v Speaker 1>we've known Roger Sandy for a.

170
00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:41.759
<v Speaker 3>Really long time.

171
00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.200
<v Speaker 1>What people don't know is that Sandy and I got

172
00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:46.440
<v Speaker 1>into crypto together when we sat next to each other

173
00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:49.200
<v Speaker 1>for about ten years city group and we're like, what

174
00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:51.840
<v Speaker 1>is this thing called bitcoin? That's kind of interesting. Ely,

175
00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:55.120
<v Speaker 1>there's a blockchain. Like, wow, we had blockchains that would

176
00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.919
<v Speaker 1>really make my life so much better because I'm scared

177
00:09:57.960 --> 00:09:59.960
<v Speaker 1>the death of the settlement risk I'm taking in this

178
00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:02.600
<v Speaker 1>current business. Oh gosh, that would be cool. So we

179
00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.320
<v Speaker 1>got into it years and years ago together. She's a

180
00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:10.480
<v Speaker 1>dear friend, and gosh, she's an incredible thought leader, right,

181
00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:13.919
<v Speaker 1>she was talking about stuff, you know. She she's the

182
00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:16.240
<v Speaker 1>type of person who talks about things years before they happen.

183
00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.759
<v Speaker 1>And if you listen to her carefully, you know, for

184
00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:22.720
<v Speaker 1>many years she was a CEO whisperer. She would go

185
00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.480
<v Speaker 1>around to CEOs tell them about the future, and a

186
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:28.399
<v Speaker 1>lot of that future's actually arrived.

187
00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:30.320
<v Speaker 3>So I'll tell you another funny story.

188
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.399
<v Speaker 1>I started business back years ago and I sat down

189
00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:34.720
<v Speaker 1>with her and she helped me really think through the

190
00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:37.799
<v Speaker 1>business model. I don't remember the exact number, but she's like,

191
00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:40.159
<v Speaker 1>you know what, if we do everything right, it'll be

192
00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:43.159
<v Speaker 1>year three, It'll be seventy three million dollars or whatever

193
00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:43.799
<v Speaker 1>the number was.

194
00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:46.120
<v Speaker 3>And I remember that I.

195
00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:47.960
<v Speaker 1>Was closing my books here end and it was like

196
00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.720
<v Speaker 1>seventy three million dollars and I'm like, oh my god.

197
00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:51.279
<v Speaker 3>I called her.

198
00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:55.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, Sadi, one of the best minds in the business.

199
00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:58.039
<v Speaker 1>Can't wait too, you know, to be working side by

200
00:10:58.039 --> 00:10:58.720
<v Speaker 1>side with her again.

201
00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:00.919
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, So.

202
00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:03.919
<v Speaker 2>Franklin's been doing a lot, you know, with tokenization, et

203
00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.360
<v Speaker 2>apps and much more. I've had conversations with Sandy and

204
00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Roger as well. Two fifty Digital tell us about the

205
00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:13.159
<v Speaker 2>specific services that you're going to be enabling in addition

206
00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:15.840
<v Speaker 2>to what they're already doing. Right, So, we're going to

207
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:20.240
<v Speaker 2>be here to very simply provide scalable asset management solutions

208
00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.120
<v Speaker 2>for institutional clients, ones that meet their the highest of

209
00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:27.600
<v Speaker 2>their standards, and that that you know, you can think

210
00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.000
<v Speaker 2>about numerous strategies that you're going to hear us announce,

211
00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:33.320
<v Speaker 2>can't announce it just yet, but from the liquid side

212
00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:39.200
<v Speaker 2>on through where you'll hear a diverse array of scalable,

213
00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.080
<v Speaker 2>institutionable strategies.

214
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:42.440
<v Speaker 3>That's our focus.

215
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:46.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm part of the acquisition. I read on the coin

216
00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.799
<v Speaker 4>desk article was using Benji tokens that are tied to

217
00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:52.600
<v Speaker 4>Templeton's on chain money fund. Can you just talk a

218
00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:53.679
<v Speaker 4>little bit about that.

219
00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:57.960
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty cool, right, so let's think about it. I mean,

220
00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:01.840
<v Speaker 1>this is like a much much bigger story. But if

221
00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:08.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to receive value for something, would I rather

222
00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:12.519
<v Speaker 1>receive it in a yielding asset or a non yielding asset?

223
00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.600
<v Speaker 1>H And, like, I think this is worth a much

224
00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.960
<v Speaker 1>much bigger conversation. But what's the difference between a money

225
00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:23.480
<v Speaker 1>market at tragy back money market fund and a stable coin?

226
00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:24.480
<v Speaker 3>What do you guys think?

227
00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:27.960
<v Speaker 4>They're really at the wrapper and there's.

228
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:31.559
<v Speaker 1>Really like the from a risk perspective, one pays interest,

229
00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:32.080
<v Speaker 1>one doesn't.

230
00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.840
<v Speaker 3>Which one's more risky? Do you think seems pretty similar

231
00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:35.399
<v Speaker 3>to me? Right?

232
00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.039
<v Speaker 1>So would you rather have one that pays you interest

233
00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.120
<v Speaker 1>or one that doesn't definitely pays interest?

234
00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:42.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

235
00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:47.480
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, it's kind of it's kind of look when

236
00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:49.519
<v Speaker 1>you step back for a second and you look at

237
00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:56.200
<v Speaker 1>what's happening here. It's this company that's trailblazing again, right,

238
00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:00.879
<v Speaker 1>they've been. They were like the first real is tuitional manager,

239
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think Fidelity was there. Black Rock came

240
00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:05.279
<v Speaker 1>along maybe around this, maybe a little later or whatever,

241
00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:10.600
<v Speaker 1>but one of the very very first investment galible investment

242
00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:13.840
<v Speaker 1>managers to really trailblaze in this space. And this is

243
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:17.399
<v Speaker 1>just another example of that trailblazing. But I like to

244
00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:20.440
<v Speaker 1>step back and say, like, wait a second, let's really

245
00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:22.159
<v Speaker 1>think about what's going on here. Maybe this is part

246
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.240
<v Speaker 1>of something even bigger, and that's the kind of stuff

247
00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:29.440
<v Speaker 1>that I'm excited to explore. Chrisy, it's really fascinating to

248
00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:33.159
<v Speaker 1>look at these players such as Franklin, black Rock, Fidelity

249
00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and others in this race. And you alluded to it

250
00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:39.399
<v Speaker 1>earlier where you mentioned it was kind of taboo, you know,

251
00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:41.240
<v Speaker 1>not to talk about crypto back in the day.

252
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.720
<v Speaker 2>But now if you don't have a strategy, it's almost foolish, right,

253
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:49.480
<v Speaker 2>you need to risk. Yeah, So are we at that,

254
00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:52.600
<v Speaker 2>you know moment where we cross the chasm now trad

255
00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:55.600
<v Speaker 2>fives in this race. The innovation is kicking off and

256
00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:59.360
<v Speaker 2>we're going to see some incredible new products, financial products,

257
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:01.080
<v Speaker 2>and much more developed in the coming years.

258
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you're going to see an I think, stepping back,

259
00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:08.559
<v Speaker 1>it's an most incredible era of innovation we could ever imagine.

260
00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:13.320
<v Speaker 1>We have two and a half like civilization changing technologies

261
00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:14.879
<v Speaker 1>right now. I'm pretty soon it's going to be three.

262
00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:20.919
<v Speaker 1>So you've got AI, which is AI is such an accelerator.

263
00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:25.799
<v Speaker 1>It accelerates so much. It accelerates development, it accelerates thinking.

264
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:29.240
<v Speaker 1>And the better it gets, the more of that acceleration

265
00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:33.080
<v Speaker 1>you'll see. You've got crypto. You can't look at AI

266
00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:37.200
<v Speaker 1>and crypto separately. They accelerate each other. Crypto forms the

267
00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:42.240
<v Speaker 1>rails through for agenttic commerce, and the development and the

268
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:47.360
<v Speaker 1>innovation across the crypto landscape will also be accelerated by AI.

269
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.080
<v Speaker 1>And then you have this other technology that's coming on

270
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:53.440
<v Speaker 1>pretty fast. It's also being accelerated by AI and will

271
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.000
<v Speaker 1>have I think probably a pretty strong impact on crypto.

272
00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:56.840
<v Speaker 3>And that's quantum.

273
00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, these are three civilization changing and they're all kind

274
00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.840
<v Speaker 1>of related, whether it's quantum for compute, AI needs compute,

275
00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:07.799
<v Speaker 1>you know crypto are those payment rails. They all kind

276
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.639
<v Speaker 1>of go together. And then you know, what are what

277
00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:12.320
<v Speaker 1>are some of the new commodities that we need to

278
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:15.080
<v Speaker 1>focus on well, compute is one of them, energy is

279
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.159
<v Speaker 1>another one. These are going to be invaluable commodities. Gosh,

280
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:21.200
<v Speaker 1>we can probably tokenize them. Gosh, there's that that's going

281
00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:23.519
<v Speaker 1>to be perhaps a better store.

282
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:25.159
<v Speaker 3>Of value than gold.

283
00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:28.399
<v Speaker 1>It could be compute, right, and wow, like bitcoin is

284
00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:31.840
<v Speaker 1>correlated too because it needs energy. So these things kind

285
00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.320
<v Speaker 1>of all work together, kind of on this interesting continuum

286
00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:41.120
<v Speaker 1>of compute, energy and these defining technology. So it's such

287
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:45.559
<v Speaker 1>an interesting, interesting time applied to asset management.

288
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:47.480
<v Speaker 3>What are you going to see?

289
00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:52.799
<v Speaker 1>You're going to see a lot more timely and and

290
00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:59.519
<v Speaker 1>hyper bespoke solutions to an individualized solutions, you know, via

291
00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:04.720
<v Speaker 1>things such as of faults, leveraging AI immediately deploying smart

292
00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:08.799
<v Speaker 1>contracts to drive the hyper customized.

293
00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:10.720
<v Speaker 3>Solutions for the client. You know.

294
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.759
<v Speaker 1>And I think that I'm not saying that people aren't

295
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:14.600
<v Speaker 1>going to be interested in some of those bigger, you know,

296
00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:16.679
<v Speaker 1>strategies that everybody likes, but now give the ability to

297
00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:22.320
<v Speaker 1>create hyper precise strategies and cash flows for individuals and

298
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:23.720
<v Speaker 1>institutions as they see thing.

299
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:25.600
<v Speaker 4>You know, there's a lot of talk as we're seeing

300
00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.879
<v Speaker 4>this institutional convergence. There's always the talk of trad fi

301
00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:32.120
<v Speaker 4>learning from the crypto natives. You know, are you finding

302
00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.120
<v Speaker 4>us as you are becoming, you know, incorporated by Franklin Templeton,

303
00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.559
<v Speaker 4>that there's also the reverse happening of your crypto natives

304
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:42.159
<v Speaker 4>having to very quickly, you know, become a sponge to

305
00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.639
<v Speaker 4>the trap FI world and the terminology and the compliance

306
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:46.720
<v Speaker 4>and regulation.

307
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:50.240
<v Speaker 1>Roles violent agreement, Amanda, like, it's such an important thing

308
00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:54.080
<v Speaker 1>to highlight. A lot of crypto people think that, you know,

309
00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:56.919
<v Speaker 1>the trai FI people need to learn from us, and

310
00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:00.240
<v Speaker 1>you know what, they're right. I don't often hear as

311
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:01.720
<v Speaker 1>much as hey, we have to learn from the Chad

312
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:05.119
<v Speaker 1>five people. But if they don't think that they're wrong.

313
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:10.920
<v Speaker 1>You learn so much from traditional finance right, enterprise scale

314
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:16.559
<v Speaker 1>real tps right. And you know, the needs of institutions

315
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:18.799
<v Speaker 1>are much different than the needs of retail.

316
00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:20.880
<v Speaker 3>And I'll give you an example.

317
00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:23.119
<v Speaker 1>A lot of crypto people say don't need intermediaries, like

318
00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:25.200
<v Speaker 1>get rid of all the intermediaries, forget it, like, we

319
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.319
<v Speaker 1>don't need them anymore, and they're kind of right and

320
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.160
<v Speaker 1>and you and that's one of the beautiful things about

321
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:36.599
<v Speaker 1>decentralization is that anyone can access DeFi via their own

322
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Internet connection and they should absolutely have that right. But

323
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:45.720
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't mean intermediaries are going away because a lot of

324
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:49.480
<v Speaker 1>institutions like the value added service, right. They like the

325
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:53.480
<v Speaker 1>insulation that they get, you know, from maybe some of

326
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.640
<v Speaker 1>the downstream enterprise risks. They like that, like white touch,

327
00:17:57.680 --> 00:17:59.079
<v Speaker 1>that like white glove service.

328
00:17:59.200 --> 00:17:59.400
<v Speaker 3>Right.

329
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:03.599
<v Speaker 1>So it's not a matter of either or it's yes both.

330
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:08.759
<v Speaker 1>And that's what we're seeing is this collide. So I'll

331
00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.599
<v Speaker 1>tell you what TRADIFI needs to learn, which they're learning

332
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.559
<v Speaker 1>very quick and they're very scared right now. They have

333
00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:19.079
<v Speaker 1>to figure it out. Twenty four to seven markets, that's

334
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:22.039
<v Speaker 1>what the natives bring, that's what their infrastructure brings, and

335
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.640
<v Speaker 1>that's what their culture brings. That is really really hard

336
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.440
<v Speaker 1>for traditional markets. And if you think about it and

337
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:32.000
<v Speaker 1>you step back for a second, markets are naturally twenty

338
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.279
<v Speaker 1>four to seven. That's how they exist in nature. Our

339
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:39.359
<v Speaker 1>technology has always prevented us from keeping up with natural markets.

340
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.839
<v Speaker 1>Natives now sorted that and we are in the market

341
00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:45.759
<v Speaker 1>twenty four to seven. And so that takes a complete

342
00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:50.920
<v Speaker 1>rewiring of culture, rewiring of systems, are rewiring of risk apparatus.

343
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:53.680
<v Speaker 1>That is the world that has always been the world

344
00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:55.720
<v Speaker 1>that we've lived in, but we haven't been able to

345
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:59.720
<v Speaker 1>keep up with it. That's probably the biggest unlock that

346
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.240
<v Speaker 1>crypto people bring to trad fy twenty four to seven markets. So, Chris,

347
00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:06.839
<v Speaker 1>on that note, with tradfi moving twenty four to seven

348
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:09.759
<v Speaker 1>to match the crypto market and what exchanges have been

349
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:12.519
<v Speaker 1>doing for a while, trad FI institutions are launching crypto

350
00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:16.000
<v Speaker 1>investment products. This week, Morgan Stanley launched crypto trading via

351
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.079
<v Speaker 1>e trade with very low fees.

352
00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:20.880
<v Speaker 2>So, Chris, what does this mean for the native crypto

353
00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:25.400
<v Speaker 2>exchanges and platforms. Are some of them potentially going to

354
00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.440
<v Speaker 2>lose market share or they're going to be consolidated in

355
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:32.720
<v Speaker 2>the mix, you know, tradfy and the native firms coming combining. Maybe, yeah, Tony,

356
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:34.000
<v Speaker 2>it's a really great point.

357
00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:40.359
<v Speaker 1>So crypto and tradifi like, they don't change the rules

358
00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:44.039
<v Speaker 1>of markets, and the rules of markets are very very

359
00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:48.000
<v Speaker 1>clear if you observe them. Spot trading is one of

360
00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:51.599
<v Speaker 1>the hardest businesses in the world. It's kind of an

361
00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:55.680
<v Speaker 1>awful business. The margin is incredibly low. I mean, look

362
00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:59.119
<v Speaker 1>at equities, right, you know, you know used to pay

363
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:03.039
<v Speaker 1>these huge commissions the intermediaries. Now you know, most doc

364
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.119
<v Speaker 1>trating is free because they because PI FI.

365
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:07.720
<v Speaker 3>There are the other ways people get paid.

366
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:12.759
<v Speaker 1>But my point is this, for spot markets, typically fees

367
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:15.640
<v Speaker 1>go to zero and that's one of the laws of markets,

368
00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:19.319
<v Speaker 1>and that's what we've seen over and over again. And

369
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:22.480
<v Speaker 1>so if you are a major crypto exchange, this is

370
00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.119
<v Speaker 1>not a surprise to them. Like I remember, they've been

371
00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:27.200
<v Speaker 1>working on this for years and many of them have

372
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:31.359
<v Speaker 1>they've gotten into custody, they've gotten into financing or prime finance,

373
00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:36.200
<v Speaker 1>they've looked at derivatives, always go back to markets and observe.

374
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:39.720
<v Speaker 1>So there's a reason why ICE bought NISI. And I'm

375
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:42.200
<v Speaker 1>not talking about homeland security guys. I'm talking about the

376
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:45.359
<v Speaker 1>Intercontinental Exchange. There's a reason why ICE bought NISY and

377
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.440
<v Speaker 1>nysy in by Ice. Right, what does this mean? What

378
00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:52.319
<v Speaker 1>businesses are going to be important data businesses, Like what's

379
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:56.400
<v Speaker 1>the data that you accumulate? There's going to be an

380
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:01.440
<v Speaker 1>incredible focus on derivatives. Derivatives is the arms CME's in

381
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:03.920
<v Speaker 1>ninety billion dollar market cap company. Ice is a ninety

382
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.079
<v Speaker 1>billion dollars market company. That's where you make your revenue.

383
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:11.319
<v Speaker 1>And then of course all those other add on services custody, financing,

384
00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:15.240
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. So yeah, I think Spot's going to get

385
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.440
<v Speaker 1>more and more competitive as we go on. The folks

386
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.440
<v Speaker 1>who win will diversify. The other thing you'll notice is

387
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:27.519
<v Speaker 1>that the one thing if you observe markets, regulation kills competition.

388
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.240
<v Speaker 1>And what you'll see over and over again is as

389
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:35.400
<v Speaker 1>regulation and legislation is introduced, it's really regulation. It really

390
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:41.519
<v Speaker 1>forces consolidation. And here's why. Regulation results in a very

391
00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:45.480
<v Speaker 1>significant fixed cost. And if you want to get into

392
00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.400
<v Speaker 1>that business, it's the same for everyone. If you're like

393
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:53.160
<v Speaker 1>a monster bank, GCIB whatever, you pay the same amount

394
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:57.200
<v Speaker 1>for that minimum compliance layer as the startup. But if

395
00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:01.200
<v Speaker 1>you're if you have scale, you can drive your revenue

396
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.279
<v Speaker 1>or your your fees pretty low because you have to

397
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:08.119
<v Speaker 1>eat that that that fixed cost for your for your

398
00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:11.200
<v Speaker 1>regulatory compliance. And so what happens is the folks who

399
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.400
<v Speaker 1>can scale will win. The folks who can't scale will

400
00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:16.160
<v Speaker 1>die because they'll be priced out of the market and

401
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.920
<v Speaker 1>they have the same costs. So stand by for a

402
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:23.880
<v Speaker 1>lot of consolidation. And then on top of that, you know,

403
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:26.759
<v Speaker 1>we talked about how Crypto's trying to get into trad FI.

404
00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:29.279
<v Speaker 1>Trad fis trying to get into crypto. You're going to

405
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:32.079
<v Speaker 1>see incremental consolidation due to M and A because it's

406
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:35.000
<v Speaker 1>really hard to build these things organically and hire the

407
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:39.680
<v Speaker 1>teams and figure it out. And so you're because you're

408
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.440
<v Speaker 1>in an arms race. Watch the M and A space,

409
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:43.680
<v Speaker 1>it's going to move very fast.

410
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.400
<v Speaker 4>Do you have a right in regard to innovation and consolidation?

411
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:50.640
<v Speaker 4>You know, you have so much competition because of that,

412
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:54.440
<v Speaker 4>But there's almost this competition that is building to be acquired.

413
00:22:54.519 --> 00:22:56.839
<v Speaker 4>And I always worry about that because it's you know,

414
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:59.680
<v Speaker 4>where's the sustainable entrepreneurs that actually want to build something.

415
00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:02.160
<v Speaker 4>That's why I actually love the CEO of zero Hash,

416
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:04.839
<v Speaker 4>who was offered, you know, to be bought out by MasterCard,

417
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:06.599
<v Speaker 4>and he turned it down because he wants to be

418
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.759
<v Speaker 4>one of the real players. And I think he's actually

419
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:12.400
<v Speaker 4>also backed by Templeton. You know, what do you have

420
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.920
<v Speaker 4>to say for people who are building to be acquired

421
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:16.119
<v Speaker 4>because of this climate?

422
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:21.279
<v Speaker 1>I mean, look, when when you're in the venture space,

423
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:25.720
<v Speaker 1>one of the questions that a lot of venture capitalists

424
00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:29.079
<v Speaker 1>will ask is say, hey, you know, if somebody gave

425
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:32.680
<v Speaker 1>you a check for one hundred million dollars, you can

426
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.960
<v Speaker 1>take it, you know, And and that's part of a

427
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:38.799
<v Speaker 1>lot of due diligence that that venture capitalists will undertake.

428
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.680
<v Speaker 1>And so look, I can't speak for every single founder,

429
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.920
<v Speaker 1>but the best founders, you know, as you're looking at

430
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:50.279
<v Speaker 1>them through that lens for the adventure capital lens, are

431
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:53.160
<v Speaker 1>the ones who are mission driven and who want to

432
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.240
<v Speaker 1>win and and you know, don't want to turn over

433
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:58.759
<v Speaker 1>the keys when it's too early. And so I think

434
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:01.119
<v Speaker 1>you're pointing out something is like, if you're building to

435
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:04.480
<v Speaker 1>be acquired, then maybe that's not the best. You know,

436
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:08.119
<v Speaker 1>you're not building the best foundations. That's not to say

437
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:10.400
<v Speaker 1>that if if a founder decides to be acquired for

438
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:13.119
<v Speaker 1>the right price and the right vision like that, that's fine.

439
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:14.039
<v Speaker 3>You're seeing a lot of that.

440
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.680
<v Speaker 1>But you know, the other thing is that we're seeing

441
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.839
<v Speaker 1>it very difficult, you know, and I know Chairman Atkins

442
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:23.640
<v Speaker 1>is trying to fix this, but I think eighty one

443
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:25.960
<v Speaker 1>percent of companies in the United States with over one

444
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.039
<v Speaker 1>hundred million dollars in revenue, they're private. It's not easy

445
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:30.960
<v Speaker 1>to go public, and many people don't want to go public,

446
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.680
<v Speaker 1>and so what kind of exit is available if you

447
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.759
<v Speaker 1>can't go public? Well, M and A is typically the

448
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:41.000
<v Speaker 1>route it would be. It wouldn't be fair for me

449
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:43.680
<v Speaker 1>to say, you know that that's not an obvious exit

450
00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:47.759
<v Speaker 1>for many folks, But yeah, you want mission driven founders

451
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:50.400
<v Speaker 1>when you're looking through a venture capital lens.

452
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Chris you mentioned in private equity. Do you think tokenization

453
00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:57.799
<v Speaker 2>is going to change that market where I don't necessarily

454
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.559
<v Speaker 2>have to go public, but I can do some sort

455
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:04.279
<v Speaker 2>of token issuings. I hope it does in a way.

456
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.279
<v Speaker 1>I really hate the fact that, like I just gave

457
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:11.200
<v Speaker 1>you guys that quote, around eighty one percent of companies

458
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:12.319
<v Speaker 1>that remain private.

459
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:13.279
<v Speaker 3>That's not good.

460
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.480
<v Speaker 1>We have a huge issue with income inequality in this country,

461
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.799
<v Speaker 1>and if we're saying, hey, sorry, you're too poor, you

462
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:22.480
<v Speaker 1>can't invest in the best companies.

463
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:24.680
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, you're just too poor to do it, that's like

464
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:25.880
<v Speaker 3>not cool.

465
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:28.640
<v Speaker 1>And so I really commend some of the efforts that

466
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:31.039
<v Speaker 1>are being undertaken, and I'm not sure they were executed

467
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:35.160
<v Speaker 1>perfectly just yet. But how do we give retail access

468
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:39.039
<v Speaker 1>to the best companies, the most innovative companies that continue

469
00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:42.000
<v Speaker 1>to be private. Now, maybe there's a way where we

470
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:45.599
<v Speaker 1>get them public earlier by alleviating some of the overhead

471
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.200
<v Speaker 1>and the stresses that they currently under that they face,

472
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:50.799
<v Speaker 1>you know, and sec SI. Maybe we don't need to

473
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:53.400
<v Speaker 1>report four times a year, maybe we do it twice whatever.

474
00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:58.720
<v Speaker 1>But there's always this give and take between consumer protection,

475
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:02.440
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. I don't like the idea of saying, sorry, Amanda,

476
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:04.759
<v Speaker 1>we're protecting you. You can't invest in a you can't

477
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:06.599
<v Speaker 1>use your hard earned money to invest in a company

478
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:08.400
<v Speaker 1>that you want because I'm going to protect you. Like

479
00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:10.720
<v Speaker 1>you're like, no, dude, that's not how it is. And

480
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.000
<v Speaker 1>I hope we get past that as a country. That said,

481
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 1>it's important to give people open disclosures to understand what

482
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:22.160
<v Speaker 1>they're investing in. And the one trend that I'm seeing

483
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.160
<v Speaker 1>that's really moving fast and I hope it continues because

484
00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:30.640
<v Speaker 1>oftentimes it starts and it stops. That's democratization. So crypto,

485
00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:33.160
<v Speaker 1>to your point, gives people access to tokens as long

486
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:35.599
<v Speaker 1>as they've got access to the Internet, and that's pretty democratic.

487
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:37.640
<v Speaker 1>Now pretty much everyone in the world, even developing country,

488
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:38.400
<v Speaker 1>they have mobile phones.

489
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:39.720
<v Speaker 3>Right, that's great.

490
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:45.720
<v Speaker 1>AI is democratizing access to information as well, and so gosh,

491
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm in a much better position now, even if I'm

492
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:50.359
<v Speaker 1>not trained in anything to say, hey, I go into

493
00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:52.559
<v Speaker 1>my deep research and I'm like, hey, look at the financials,

494
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.039
<v Speaker 1>what does this tell me? And you can really start

495
00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:59.319
<v Speaker 1>teaching yourself and so hopefully together this allows for regular

496
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:02.319
<v Speaker 1>folks to invest in the best companies in the world.

497
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:03.680
<v Speaker 1>That's where you want to get and you want to

498
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:05.680
<v Speaker 1>make sure they do so in a way that they

499
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:06.559
<v Speaker 1>know what they're getting into.

500
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.960
<v Speaker 4>I know on Twitter you've been making a lot of

501
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:16.200
<v Speaker 4>analogies with the Revolutionary War in comparison to the bitcoin reserve.

502
00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:20.839
<v Speaker 4>You know, your privateers and how this would work with

503
00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:24.480
<v Speaker 4>a bitcoin reserve at no cost to the tax payer.

504
00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:26.880
<v Speaker 4>Can you explain how that exactly would work?

505
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:28.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you for bringing it up.

506
00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:31.119
<v Speaker 1>It's something I'm pretty passionate about, and yeah, I do

507
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.400
<v Speaker 1>spend a little bit of time on social media talking

508
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.160
<v Speaker 1>about it. I'm a big believer in crypto and in

509
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.079
<v Speaker 1>the technology and the potential of this technology to do

510
00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:42.240
<v Speaker 1>all the things I'm talking about twenty four to seven

511
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.880
<v Speaker 1>market is access, democratization, et cetera. And if I were

512
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:47.880
<v Speaker 1>to say, the one thing that keeps me awake at

513
00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:53.000
<v Speaker 1>night around this technology accomplishing its full potential is security.

514
00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:56.000
<v Speaker 3>And I've been living this for years.

515
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:01.039
<v Speaker 1>How often have we seen a startup by a state

516
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:05.599
<v Speaker 1>sponsored actor? And when a state sponsored actor goes after

517
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:08.200
<v Speaker 1>a startup and tries to hack them, guess what the

518
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:11.279
<v Speaker 1>startup's going to lose. And yes, I've been criticized and

519
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:13.160
<v Speaker 1>people have said, well, this is a very you know,

520
00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:17.039
<v Speaker 1>confrontational environment, and people need to be robust, and it's

521
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:19.759
<v Speaker 1>shame on the victim. But like I don't know in

522
00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:22.359
<v Speaker 1>any place that I've ever been, when you start shaming victims,

523
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.279
<v Speaker 1>probably not the right way to direct your angst. And

524
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.759
<v Speaker 1>so why don't we start pivoting on policies that will

525
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:34.640
<v Speaker 1>actually protect our founders attract entrepreneurs on shore. And did

526
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:36.640
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of research and it brought me to

527
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:39.519
<v Speaker 1>the US Constitution, which I used to be in the

528
00:28:39.559 --> 00:28:42.640
<v Speaker 1>military and I used to defend and I'm like, wow,

529
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:46.680
<v Speaker 1>and the little history and here's how it goes. In

530
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:50.160
<v Speaker 1>the Revolutionary War, we didn't we couldn't afford a navy,

531
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:53.559
<v Speaker 1>We didn't have the surface area to really fight the British,

532
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:56.000
<v Speaker 1>who is the greatest naval power in the world. And

533
00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:58.160
<v Speaker 1>so we went through this thing called we issued letters

534
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.240
<v Speaker 1>of mark, which were started in the Middle Age where

535
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.279
<v Speaker 1>you commission private citizens and ship captains to go on

536
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:05.799
<v Speaker 1>the attack against str enemy. And if you don't know

537
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:10.079
<v Speaker 1>the history of the Revolutionary War, the Revolutionary War large

538
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.160
<v Speaker 1>and a large part came to an end because we

539
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:14.519
<v Speaker 1>ravaged the British economy. If you look at the newspapers

540
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:16.880
<v Speaker 1>at the time in London, they were upset because their

541
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:20.160
<v Speaker 1>shipping was destroyed. Our privateers would raid it, take you know,

542
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:22.680
<v Speaker 1>take take their goods and really hurt their economy.

543
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:24.759
<v Speaker 3>And they had enough. So that helped us.

544
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:28.160
<v Speaker 1>When the Revolutionary War War eighteen twelve came around, James

545
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Madison issued five hundred letters of mark and again that

546
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:34.640
<v Speaker 1>helped with the stalemate there. And again this is as

547
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:36.720
<v Speaker 1>American as apple pie. To an Article one, section eight

548
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:41.640
<v Speaker 1>of the Constitution. Now why does this apply to crypto today?

549
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:45.039
<v Speaker 1>We have decent capabilities within our government, but it's really

550
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:47.559
<v Speaker 1>hard to attract and retain talent, and our surface our

551
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:51.440
<v Speaker 1>defense service areas tiny. And so the thinking is is like, gosh,

552
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:54.079
<v Speaker 1>what if we could look back at our history and

553
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:57.759
<v Speaker 1>come up with a fully regulated opportunity to let private

554
00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:02.000
<v Speaker 1>companies go out and help help us recover those stolen assets.

555
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:05.119
<v Speaker 1>The numbers are big I think we had twenty nine hacks.

556
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:09.759
<v Speaker 1>Like recently, last month alone we had six hundred millions

557
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:13.240
<v Speaker 1>stolen from hacks, whether it's the KELP, Dow Layer zero thing,

558
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:18.079
<v Speaker 1>drift and so what are we doing about it? It

559
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.079
<v Speaker 1>keeps happening. And to me, there's only one policy solution

560
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.759
<v Speaker 1>I can think of, and it's not to blame the victim.

561
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:27.400
<v Speaker 1>It's to go after the bad guys. And the bad

562
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:29.319
<v Speaker 1>guys keep doing it. So how do we create policies

563
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:33.599
<v Speaker 1>that protect our founders? And to me, it's around issuing

564
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:36.680
<v Speaker 1>these these regulated letters of mark where they can go

565
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:41.799
<v Speaker 1>and recover assets. When they're successful, they will receive some

566
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.160
<v Speaker 1>of you know, using a pirate term, some of that

567
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.200
<v Speaker 1>booty and some will go to the house and then

568
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.319
<v Speaker 1>of course some will go to the victim. And like

569
00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:52.119
<v Speaker 1>back in the day, they would actually have prize courts

570
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:55.319
<v Speaker 1>that adjudicated this. And a great thing about crypto is

571
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.519
<v Speaker 1>it's all chain. You could track who ones what right.

572
00:30:58.119 --> 00:31:03.680
<v Speaker 1>So look, I'm all about solutions and that's the only

573
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:06.039
<v Speaker 1>I can think of, But we have to get much

574
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:08.079
<v Speaker 1>better from a security per The second thing on security

575
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:11.000
<v Speaker 1>is that people are freaking out about like AI, like

576
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.119
<v Speaker 1>oh a I is going to destroy our security situation,

577
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:16.279
<v Speaker 1>and they're right. It brings a lot of new risks,

578
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:21.440
<v Speaker 1>like deep fake technology is very scary. But the point

579
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:23.119
<v Speaker 1>is that AI is also going to be great from

580
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:26.960
<v Speaker 1>a defense perspective because it's not going to be game

581
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.759
<v Speaker 1>over like the bad guys win because they have AI.

582
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:30.680
<v Speaker 1>I know we're going to be able to strengthen a

583
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.559
<v Speaker 1>lot of our protocols as well. At the same time,

584
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:36.480
<v Speaker 1>So to me, security remains really important and has to

585
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:37.720
<v Speaker 1>be saw one way or the other. But thank you

586
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:39.960
<v Speaker 1>for asking me, Amanda, I think I'm crazy on that one,

587
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Like what do you think?

588
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.759
<v Speaker 4>Well, I think it's interesting, I do I did I

589
00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:47.240
<v Speaker 4>hear how it works with no cost to the taxpayer?

590
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:48.480
<v Speaker 4>Did you answer that? And did I missed that?

591
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:49.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

592
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:52.839
<v Speaker 1>So if you were to recover those assets, and always

593
00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:55.240
<v Speaker 1>traditionally we get a cut, right they give you the letter,

594
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:57.160
<v Speaker 1>they're like, Amanda, you know you can go out and

595
00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:00.440
<v Speaker 1>hack the bad guys, and you're like, okay, I I

596
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.680
<v Speaker 1>reclaimed I recovered one hundred million dollars and maybe I

597
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:04.599
<v Speaker 1>had to violate OPHAC to do it because I have

598
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.720
<v Speaker 1>the special license. But then you got to pay your

599
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.799
<v Speaker 1>taxes to the man, and so that would that could

600
00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:12.119
<v Speaker 1>potentially go into the bitcoin reserve no cost to the

601
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:12.680
<v Speaker 1>tax payer.

602
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:14.119
<v Speaker 3>Everyone's happy.

603
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:16.359
<v Speaker 4>Thank I'm all for that.

604
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like the idea, and Christy, you and I

605
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:21.960
<v Speaker 2>have talked about it in the past. But yeah, by

606
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:25.519
<v Speaker 2>the way, how do you get this to Congress? To Antony,

607
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:29.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying, man, I'm trying call your congressman. I've spoken

608
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.720
<v Speaker 2>to numerous congress people on it.

609
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:34.119
<v Speaker 3>They like it.

610
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.799
<v Speaker 1>My Christian Carlo and I former chair of the CFTC,

611
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.440
<v Speaker 1>we published a couple of papers on it. No one's

612
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:42.559
<v Speaker 1>really told me that they think it's awful. There's some

613
00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:45.000
<v Speaker 1>people that have concerns about people going rogue whatever, but

614
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:48.839
<v Speaker 1>like that can be solved. But uh, I think we

615
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:50.559
<v Speaker 1>need to do something. I can't think of anything else.

616
00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:54.000
<v Speaker 1>And I've had good support from Democrats as well. It's

617
00:32:54.039 --> 00:32:56.680
<v Speaker 1>not just a Republican thing, and I'm not not partisan,

618
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:59.920
<v Speaker 1>but I think in fact, I heard the Secretary best

619
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:04.319
<v Speaker 1>likes it. Christian Carlo spoke to him. So a lot

620
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:05.640
<v Speaker 1>of people like it. We just got to do it.

621
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:06.960
<v Speaker 1>And as you guys know, as we're heading to the

622
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:09.759
<v Speaker 1>end of the Clarity Act, here getting when they say

623
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:11.880
<v Speaker 1>it takes an Act of Congress. It takes Anact of

624
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:14.799
<v Speaker 1>Congress at it easy, So you know, we'll see what happens.

625
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:18.279
<v Speaker 1>But fingers crossed and call your congressman.

626
00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:21.680
<v Speaker 4>Speaking of clarity, you've expressed a lot of concern about

627
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:24.880
<v Speaker 4>section five oh five. Well, first of all, do you

628
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.519
<v Speaker 4>think this bill will pass? It seems you know, early

629
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:30.480
<v Speaker 4>next week, end of next week. What are you? What

630
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:31.240
<v Speaker 4>are your thoughts?

631
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:33.839
<v Speaker 1>You know it's a coin flip, no matter what anyone

632
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:37.200
<v Speaker 1>tells you, it's a coin flip. I remain bullish that

633
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:41.119
<v Speaker 1>it gets passed. I think prediction markus went pretty high recently,

634
00:33:41.319 --> 00:33:43.559
<v Speaker 1>but you know, I'm probably in the sixty percent range

635
00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:46.119
<v Speaker 1>right now. Because things get weird at the end. And

636
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:47.920
<v Speaker 1>if you looked at the Genius Act, who got really

637
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:49.599
<v Speaker 1>weird at the end. People want to extract, they have

638
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.440
<v Speaker 1>their little agendas whatever. You never know, and it's a

639
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.759
<v Speaker 1>hard bill and a lot of people don't like it,

640
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.400
<v Speaker 1>and so there are some political challenges. The good news

641
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:00.799
<v Speaker 1>is that there are no more technical issues. The bill

642
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.559
<v Speaker 1>is the bill. Now you're getting into the political issues.

643
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:07.559
<v Speaker 1>Those political issues, there's some stuff around. People want commissioners

644
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:11.360
<v Speaker 1>to be appointed to balance things out. Fine, but the

645
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:16.079
<v Speaker 1>big issues ethics. And it's unfortunate that this has to

646
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:18.400
<v Speaker 1>be the issue because this is not an ethics bill.

647
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.400
<v Speaker 1>We really need an ethics bill, and we should have

648
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.400
<v Speaker 1>a big ethics bill, and I would love it, and

649
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.599
<v Speaker 1>I think it would be great for our country. But

650
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:29.440
<v Speaker 1>why are you tying that to crypto? And the reason

651
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:31.920
<v Speaker 1>is is that in some people's minds, Donald Trump and

652
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:35.079
<v Speaker 1>crypto are a thing. What I tell them then is like,

653
00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:36.920
<v Speaker 1>let's really like get rid of real estate too, Like,

654
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.159
<v Speaker 1>let's go after real estate ethics because like he likes

655
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:41.280
<v Speaker 1>real estate too, Like, come on, guys, it should be

656
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:46.480
<v Speaker 1>an entire like a focus on ethics should be across

657
00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:49.119
<v Speaker 1>all asset classes. In the State of the Union address,

658
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:51.199
<v Speaker 1>Trump said twice he talked about to Stop and Saider

659
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Trading Act twice. I would like I would I'd be

660
00:34:55.480 --> 00:34:57.400
<v Speaker 1>a fool to come up here and say, oh, no,

661
00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:59.599
<v Speaker 1>we don't need ethics, Because we do need ethics. The

662
00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:01.360
<v Speaker 1>question is is does it need to be in this

663
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.239
<v Speaker 1>bill or should it be done you know, more broadly.

664
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:07.760
<v Speaker 1>I would vote for more broadly, but politics or politics

665
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:11.239
<v Speaker 1>are tough. The thing that makes me bullish on this

666
00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:14.760
<v Speaker 1>getting done, though, is that when Operation Epic Fury started

667
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:18.000
<v Speaker 1>and the bullet started flying, Trump literally said I want

668
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.079
<v Speaker 1>clarity done. And so he's got a lot of chips.

669
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:21.960
<v Speaker 1>I think he's putting them on the table and I

670
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:22.960
<v Speaker 1>hope he gets it done.

671
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Chris, we've seen the market recently rally bit quite over

672
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:31.159
<v Speaker 2>eighty thousand for a bit. You know, what are your

673
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.599
<v Speaker 2>thoughts on where we're at in this cycle and could

674
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:39.000
<v Speaker 2>the institutional crypto institutional error break some of the four

675
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:42.239
<v Speaker 2>year cycle patterns we've seen over the years and make

676
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:46.159
<v Speaker 2>things less wild for your cycle is a thing. You

677
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:46.960
<v Speaker 2>can't ignore it.

678
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:51.559
<v Speaker 1>You can't just say it's not important, because it continues

679
00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:57.800
<v Speaker 1>to show that it's one of the inputs. However, it's

680
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.159
<v Speaker 1>starting to be offset by others, and I think the

681
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:06.159
<v Speaker 1>institutional bid especially will help that. So I don't think

682
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:08.079
<v Speaker 1>it's fair to say, oh, it's dead, forget it, ignore it.

683
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.239
<v Speaker 1>It's just one input into many other inputs, and I

684
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:12.360
<v Speaker 1>think it's waiting will decrease over time.

685
00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:17.519
<v Speaker 3>I think the market setup is very, very constructive. A

686
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:18.159
<v Speaker 3>few reasons.

687
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Number one, retail burned in ten ten. This is a

688
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.400
<v Speaker 1>retail market. They kind of pulled back. They're not so

689
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:26.599
<v Speaker 1>sure and those are the dgens, the people with the

690
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:30.679
<v Speaker 1>early adopters. Right typically, when price action picks up, they'll

691
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:33.280
<v Speaker 1>come pouring back. They needed to go after gold for

692
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:35.199
<v Speaker 1>a while. Blah blah blah blah blah. Look at the

693
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:39.199
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin gold graph. It's really actually quite beautiful right now. Ever,

694
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:41.679
<v Speaker 1>since epic Fury began, people are like, I think there

695
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:43.559
<v Speaker 1>was a little bit of concern amongst retail saying, well,

696
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:46.599
<v Speaker 1>wait a second, why did everyone buy gold and not bitcoin?

697
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:49.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, Like my narrative is broken. I'm so sad.

698
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:52.280
<v Speaker 1>But the truth of the matter is is that once

699
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:55.119
<v Speaker 1>epic fury started, people like, wait, this gold stuff, it's

700
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:57.000
<v Speaker 1>hard to transport. We really don't know how much there

701
00:36:57.079 --> 00:36:59.679
<v Speaker 1>is if I used derivats. On top of that, I'm

702
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:03.159
<v Speaker 1>backing US financial system. Maybe there's a better asset that's

703
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:06.039
<v Speaker 1>more transparent, that I can move around easier. That's that's

704
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.159
<v Speaker 1>just a better store of value. And I think that

705
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.800
<v Speaker 1>realization is coming back. So I think the narrative, first

706
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:14.239
<v Speaker 1>for a hot minute, broke down in some people's minds.

707
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:16.440
<v Speaker 1>But when you step back, the narratives are very much intact.

708
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:20.239
<v Speaker 1>Bitcoin's a wonderful store of gold. Wonderful like digital gold

709
00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:25.440
<v Speaker 1>store value. But you know, right now Macro has been

710
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:28.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, keeping its foot on the neck of crypto

711
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:29.880
<v Speaker 1>a little bit, but it's been very resilient. Right we

712
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:33.000
<v Speaker 1>just hit ady. It feels very constructive, and then you

713
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:37.119
<v Speaker 1>have those institutions continuing to march forward. So sentiment is bad,

714
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:43.199
<v Speaker 1>fundamentals are improving. Typically results in a really constructive market setup.

715
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:46.239
<v Speaker 4>And see its fundamentals. You know, data is clearly one

716
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:49.760
<v Speaker 4>of those the biggest things with prediction markets and other derivatives.

717
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.079
<v Speaker 4>And as you I think I saw you Reshare this

718
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:57.199
<v Speaker 4>morning again on social media. But this this company True

719
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.079
<v Speaker 4>True Inflation. I believe it's the name of it. And

720
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:04.920
<v Speaker 4>you know this is this is showing better data, timely data,

721
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:10.039
<v Speaker 4>transparent data. It's giving you instant access to actionable inflation print.

722
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.840
<v Speaker 4>Can you just tell us a bit about about this

723
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:13.599
<v Speaker 4>company and why you're championing it.

724
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:18.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So not investment advice or anything else. Stefan's a

725
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:21.199
<v Speaker 1>friend a step and rust I just did a podcast

726
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:23.320
<v Speaker 1>with him. But he if you look at the way

727
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:25.760
<v Speaker 1>financial data was released by the government in the past,

728
00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:31.079
<v Speaker 1>Bureau of Labor Statistics, it's latent. The methodology is pretty old.

729
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:33.000
<v Speaker 1>They survey a bunch of households, they.

730
00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:34.360
<v Speaker 3>Move it around a little bit.

731
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:37.719
<v Speaker 1>And so this entrepreneur identified a way to improve the

732
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.719
<v Speaker 1>calculation to go from something that's super lagging to something

733
00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:44.599
<v Speaker 1>that's near real time. And one of the most exciting

734
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:48.360
<v Speaker 1>things that are that's coming out of crypto is the

735
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:54.920
<v Speaker 1>transparency and the discovery of new data points like predicated

736
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:56.800
<v Speaker 1>in prediction markets. So like, let's let's look unpack that

737
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:57.440
<v Speaker 1>for a second.

738
00:38:58.679 --> 00:38:59.039
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

739
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:03.000
<v Speaker 1>About you, but I would argue that the world is

740
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:06.159
<v Speaker 1>becoming more trustless and more permissionless as we go on.

741
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:08.440
<v Speaker 1>We're in a world of real politic. People are acting

742
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:12.840
<v Speaker 1>in their interests. It's really hard to trust, you know, polls,

743
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.880
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to trust news, and like it's hard to

744
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:19.840
<v Speaker 1>trust social media. And frankly, the best way to truth

745
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:24.159
<v Speaker 1>from my perspective is via markets. Markets tell the truth.

746
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:25.440
<v Speaker 1>I had a good friend, He's like, you want to

747
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:27.519
<v Speaker 1>know the truth, watch financial news. That's the closest you're

748
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:31.400
<v Speaker 1>going to get, and markets tell the truth. Now, what

749
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:33.880
<v Speaker 1>we have now is we have these things called prediction

750
00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:38.079
<v Speaker 1>markets that are telling the truth in real time. Put

751
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:40.440
<v Speaker 1>your money where your mouth is, and they're not perfect.

752
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:43.159
<v Speaker 1>They can be manipulated and we're seeing issues around that already.

753
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:46.639
<v Speaker 1>And the great news about market manipulation in this space

754
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:48.960
<v Speaker 1>is that it's illegal. It's always been illegal. We don't

755
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:52.039
<v Speaker 1>need new laws because of a new technology.

756
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:52.880
<v Speaker 3>You can't do it.

757
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.840
<v Speaker 1>And I think people are going to start realizing that

758
00:39:55.880 --> 00:39:57.840
<v Speaker 1>you don't get a free pass because it's a new market. No,

759
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:01.519
<v Speaker 1>it's a fully regulated market market. You can't manipulate it.

760
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:03.320
<v Speaker 1>So what you can start doing now, and I think

761
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:06.960
<v Speaker 1>we're just at the beginning of this phenomena. You can

762
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.440
<v Speaker 1>start ripping apart different parts of a company's balance sheet

763
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:13.159
<v Speaker 1>and have prediction markets to see how they're doing in

764
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:18.280
<v Speaker 1>a region. And and like the opportunities or inflation, you know,

765
00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:21.880
<v Speaker 1>why should I wait for like a monthly report or

766
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:24.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, any other government data like a weekly report

767
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:26.679
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. When I can have the market tell me

768
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:30.760
<v Speaker 1>the more accurate number in real time. That makes markets

769
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:34.719
<v Speaker 1>more efficient, that gives people a better opportunity. And that's

770
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.320
<v Speaker 1>just one example of many. So yeah, Stefan's good friend.

771
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:41.000
<v Speaker 1>It's been interesting to watch as policymakers start looking at

772
00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:45.039
<v Speaker 1>his metrics as well against the BLS. But it's great

773
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:49.360
<v Speaker 1>to see private sector enhancing and disrupting to get more

774
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:50.119
<v Speaker 1>accurate data.

775
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:52.320
<v Speaker 3>That's exactly what you want to see.

776
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:56.679
<v Speaker 2>And Chris, with blockchain tech, you know, being used as

777
00:40:56.679 --> 00:40:59.559
<v Speaker 2>the rails for many of these different data sources and

778
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:03.639
<v Speaker 2>so forth, you see that it will get more efficient,

779
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:09.199
<v Speaker 2>better quality data with blockchain tech in the mix one

780
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:09.840
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent.

781
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:13.199
<v Speaker 1>You're seeing companies around the world. There are a couple

782
00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:15.760
<v Speaker 1>of different streams. So one stream is that people are

783
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.480
<v Speaker 1>looking into to invest in cryptonative assets. But another humongous

784
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:24.559
<v Speaker 1>stream during this institutional era is that they're integrating blockchain

785
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:29.920
<v Speaker 1>technology for the value that it brings, which effectively is

786
00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:33.760
<v Speaker 1>real time settlement in many cases, and it eliminates risks

787
00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:36.760
<v Speaker 1>and eliminates settlements risk. In tradify, we call it herstat risk,

788
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.199
<v Speaker 1>which was named after a bank that defaulted in nineteen

789
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:42.480
<v Speaker 1>seventy four because it couldn't settle things on time and

790
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:47.320
<v Speaker 1>it had this huge issue with settlement latency. So yeah,

791
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:51.280
<v Speaker 1>you're seeing that across the board, and I know guys

792
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:54.679
<v Speaker 1>who are building entire pe funds around that concept.

793
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:56.719
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, it's interesting.

794
00:41:57.320 --> 00:42:00.599
<v Speaker 4>Well, Christopher, this has been super informative. You're one of

795
00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:04.320
<v Speaker 4>the few guys that doesn't get overly technical when you respond.

796
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:08.719
<v Speaker 4>It's very understandable and I really appreciate you joining us

797
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:09.239
<v Speaker 4>this morning.

798
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:12.960
<v Speaker 1>I really appreciate your time. Keep doing all the good

799
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:15.440
<v Speaker 1>work that you guys do. Big fan, and thank you

800
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.360
<v Speaker 1>Tony and Amanda. I really appreciate you coming on.

801
00:42:17.719 --> 00:42:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Thank you Chris, Thank you so much for tuning in.

802
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Please hit the like button subscribe if you haven't as yet.

803
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:26.360
<v Speaker 2>If you're listening on a podcast platform such as Spotify

804
00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:29.119
<v Speaker 2>or Apple, please follow and leave a five star rating.

805
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:30.239
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much,