Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
Speaker 3: Thank you? What a.
Speaker 4: Welcome to the cult rejects. In this episode I got
Speaker 4: my co host Jin the Ninja.
Speaker 2: What is going on? Jin?
Speaker 4: Thank you very much for joining me and being the
Speaker 4: co host. I'm sure pretty much everybody knows who you
Speaker 4: are ready for being one of.
Speaker 2: The cult rejects.
Speaker 4: But in case there's some new listeners that maybe you
Speaker 4: haven't heard yet in a few episodes, why don't you
Speaker 4: let everybody know what your deal is and where they
Speaker 4: can find your amazing works.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Nick, and thank you for having
Speaker 5: me on. And thank you to Mark who was a guest,
Speaker 5: a great guest.
Speaker 6: On my show.
Speaker 5: I can't even remember the episode number, Mark, but it
Speaker 5: was a really great episode entitled Breath of Fire and
Speaker 5: we discussed Zelda about It was a far ranging discussion
Speaker 5: that talked about the metaphysics of anime and I think
Speaker 5: video games at least an as an introductory I mean,
Speaker 5: I could have gone on for three hours, but for
Speaker 5: what it was, it was like a really in depth conversation.
Speaker 6: So I appreciate that.
Speaker 5: And so people can check out my shows Threshold Saints,
Speaker 5: I am really interested in this idea of parafiction and metafiction.
Speaker 5: That's sort of the evolution of my show and what
Speaker 5: it's become, which is kind of like an idea that
Speaker 5: comes a little bit from chaos magic and then a
Speaker 5: little bit from contra Buddhism and this idea of clarifying
Speaker 5: narratives with the truth and sort of mixing them alchemically
Speaker 5: and so just like podcasting.
Speaker 4: Really, thank you and all his links and everything will
Speaker 4: be in the bottom as well with the show notes,
Speaker 4: and thank you very much, Jin, I really do appreciate
Speaker 4: you getting this suggesting this guest. I'm thinking this is
Speaker 4: going to be very fun and interesting topic. H And
Speaker 4: that leads us to the guest, Mark Mark. Thank you
Speaker 4: so much for coming on. I know it was I
Speaker 4: think I left you hanging for a while. I had
Speaker 4: things going on I knew, but finally finally got you on. Mark,
Speaker 4: if you can let everybody know, I guess you know
Speaker 4: where they can find your work and maybe give us
Speaker 4: a little bit of a I guess a background about
Speaker 4: like you know what you're into and you know what
Speaker 4: we're going to talk about here eventually.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, uh yeah, I'm on Twitter as Solier, So
Speaker 3: you'll see that in my name there, you know. And
Speaker 3: I'm kind of a regular guy, you know, So I
Speaker 3: taste wine. I do wine collections. I have a winery
Speaker 3: in the mountains south of Los Angeles, and you know,
Speaker 3: I've been working on that for several years with some partners.
Speaker 3: But being you know, on Twitter and X, I've you know,
Speaker 3: kind of created a I don't know, little side project
Speaker 3: of examining media in a lot of different ways, and
Speaker 3: originally started with like death stranding and the Legend of
Speaker 3: Zelda and is applying a cult metaphysics and analysis to
Speaker 3: you know, what are what are these things being presented
Speaker 3: to us that are normally just a regular consumption. And
Speaker 3: I began to pick up on a lot of hidden
Speaker 3: trends and strange synchronicities, and through that, I've I've done
Speaker 3: a number of different threads, particularly on anime because they
Speaker 3: have a lot of strange things in them aside from
Speaker 3: normal you know, American television for instance.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And you know, I do a little continental philosophy, but
Speaker 3: most of it is uh, you know, media studies. And
Speaker 3: I think we're at a really unique juncture in history. Uh,
Speaker 3: you know, everyone's kind of blost their minds a little bit.
Speaker 3: We're inundated with technology, uh, mass media certainly changing people's perceptions,
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, I really want to understand how
Speaker 3: that affects, you know, me personally, that affects my friends
Speaker 3: that you know country I live in, and you know,
Speaker 3: how to navigate going forward as the world consistently changes,
Speaker 3: and that's accelerating, that's being amplified, and I think some
Speaker 3: of these you know, shows can really give us insights
Speaker 3: into ourselves and maybe taking the next step forward and
Speaker 3: navigating the future.
Speaker 2: Thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4: I know what we're going to talk about originally kind
Speaker 4: of talk about how do you just pronounce the name
Speaker 4: of this again?
Speaker 2: I don't want to screw it up.
Speaker 3: The Evangelian, Yeah, I pronounced it on Neon Genesis Evangelian, Evangelian.
Speaker 1: You know it's made over tomato.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm from New York. So I'm from New York.
Speaker 4: I could say however I want. I guess, so, yeah,
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter. I know we're going to kind of
Speaker 4: talk about that. But I mean, I think, you know,
Speaker 4: we were saying something prior, and I do think there's
Speaker 4: something behind this. And one thing I do want to
Speaker 4: even add too, believe it or not, a lot of
Speaker 4: suggested things I get to cover that is like something
Speaker 4: i'd have to watch. It's actually a lot of like
Speaker 4: japanimation stuff. I've actually have suggested to me a lot
Speaker 4: some stuff I have looked at and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 4: that's just blatant, you know, And uh, I'd never really
Speaker 4: got like, really delved into the stuff too much. But
Speaker 4: it seems like it's kind of blatant and it's things
Speaker 4: are real popular and it's commercialized. I'm assuming there's probably
Speaker 4: a reason maybe for this, or.
Speaker 2: Maybe it just works. I don't know.
Speaker 4: It captivates people's attention anyway, and you can make money
Speaker 4: off of it. But I guess what I'm getting at
Speaker 4: is it just does seem from what I looked at,
Speaker 4: seems pretty prevalent amongst that japanimation with a cult and
Speaker 4: you know, you know, I guess maybe you were kind
Speaker 4: of like wondering, as you know, something to do with politics,
Speaker 4: occultism all that, maybe there's a reason for it to
Speaker 4: be going on right now. I know you have like
Speaker 4: maybe some theories on that. Maybe we could talk about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, uh, you know, I mentioned this on Jin's episode two.
Speaker 3: I had written an episode on the Breadth of Fire,
Speaker 3: which talked about you know, Japan's.
Speaker 1: Foray into Western imperialism. You know, at the the end.
Speaker 3: Of the nineteenth century, you know, with the the Meiji
Speaker 3: Reformation and how you know, Japan kind of abandoned the
Speaker 3: old shogunate and became you know.
Speaker 1: Masonic market imperialist.
Speaker 3: And you know, you could look at the last Samurai
Speaker 3: for instance, that's kind of you know Tom Tom Cruise
Speaker 3: doing you know, dances with wolves, but he's you know, uh,
Speaker 3: modernizing Japan, and it's it's a really interesting reflection on
Speaker 3: how the Western or sorry, the Japanese elite began to
Speaker 3: adopt a lot of.
Speaker 1: Western occult symbolism. Uh. You know, many of them become
Speaker 1: indoctrinated into you.
Speaker 3: Know, some form of liberalism, uh, some form of you
Speaker 3: know again Western uh militarism, and they start wearing all
Speaker 3: the same badges and the stars and and and so
Speaker 3: that's the beginning of their expansion into China, into the
Speaker 3: Southeast Asia. And you know, over time, there's you know,
Speaker 3: see World War two, the atomic bomb has dropped on them,
Speaker 3: and then the kind of society changes and they're almost
Speaker 3: like the leading precursor of what is happening around the
Speaker 3: world now.
Speaker 1: You know, they a.
Speaker 3: Lot of the country is devastated. They have a huge
Speaker 3: infrastructure rebuilding, and they adopt a lot of Western you know,
Speaker 3: economic models.
Speaker 1: But through this, you.
Speaker 3: Know, you have arcades coming out and these you know,
Speaker 3: brilliant light shows and cartoons, right like really become forefront
Speaker 3: and and something in this society kind of adopts that
Speaker 3: latches onto it. And and I you know, early on
Speaker 3: I noticed, going back to like the fifties and the sixties,
Speaker 3: there's weird occult themes in the Japanese anime even then.
Speaker 3: And you know, it's only now being illuminated simply because
Speaker 3: I can you know, we can all go on these
Speaker 3: hyperlinks and surf the web and go, you know, make
Speaker 3: all these cross references, whereas you know, thirty forty years ago,
Speaker 3: you know, you would see that and go, oh, that's
Speaker 3: that's interesting. But the fact that it continually recurs, right,
Speaker 3: that's something that just caught my attention, and so I
Speaker 3: wanted to dig into it, you know, and then you
Speaker 3: start playing games or you know, we talked about Zeno Gears.
Speaker 3: That's a highly cabalistic video game. Uh, Neon Genesis was
Speaker 3: actually really hard to find, you know, when I was
Speaker 3: a kid, and so it wasn't until years later that
Speaker 3: actually revisited as an adult, you know, Final Fantasy. Right,
Speaker 3: the guy's name is Sephiroth, you know, and you're like,
Speaker 3: that's a very strange name to just pick it for
Speaker 3: a villain. And and so I kind of was pulling
Speaker 3: that thread. And now that you know everyone has links
Speaker 3: and you can pass us all around, it's actually no,
Speaker 3: there's a huge pattern there. And so I think somewhere
Speaker 3: in the Japanese adoption of Western philosophy, uh, you know,
Speaker 3: their alliance into you.
Speaker 1: Know, like the like the G seven, you know.
Speaker 3: A Western American occupation, and right there they're little ruled
Speaker 3: by a dragon emperor. And so there are I think
Speaker 3: affinities in that nation that maybe align themselves with this
Speaker 3: sort of a cult power structure. You know. I tend
Speaker 3: to refer to them as like the cosmopolity. They're they're
Speaker 3: almost like this old form of like bourgeois aristocracy that
Speaker 3: like it's like private old money you never heard of, right,
Speaker 3: and it's you know parts of all these like old
Speaker 3: bourbon habsburg.
Speaker 1: You know, you can talk about like.
Speaker 3: Black mobility, stuff like you can make yourself crazy picking
Speaker 3: us stuff apart, but you can't just abandon it.
Speaker 1: And there are these hidden structures, and I think.
Speaker 3: Japan is almost like the spotlight that allows us to then,
Speaker 3: you know, go behind the dark side of the moon
Speaker 3: and see like, oh there's something else here.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I totally agree with you, Mark.
Speaker 5: It's you know, I have my foot in anime twitter,
Speaker 5: perhaps significantly more than Nick does, So I see a
Speaker 5: lot of the sort of.
Speaker 6: As I'm sure you do, and I've seen on your
Speaker 6: own threads.
Speaker 5: A lot of people will sort of as the kids
Speaker 5: call it, cope with this idea that there is a
Speaker 5: sort of fundamental occult name mature of animation and video
Speaker 5: and video games. But there definitely is. You can trace it.
Speaker 5: Even in Owen Davies's book on the history of Grimore Publishing,
Speaker 5: he even mentions that there were grimoar is brought by
Speaker 5: the Dutch in the sixteen eighties. So yeah, there are
Speaker 5: clear and there are Japanese translations of the Keys of Solomon,
Speaker 5: and so they have a clear idea that this was happening.
Speaker 5: And you can watch even the nineteen eighty one movie
Speaker 5: samurai reincarnation.
Speaker 6: It's all about this. It's about a.
Speaker 5: Christian samurai who gets murdered by the showgunate. He makes
Speaker 5: a deal with the devil, reincarnates seven of his generals,
Speaker 5: and then he must be killed by a magical swordsman.
Speaker 5: So there clearly is also an association with Christianity with
Speaker 5: occultism in Japan. And I think that you agree with this,
Speaker 5: but you can say Mark if you don't agree. But
Speaker 5: I think that there is something to that where they
Speaker 5: sort of think it's a very powerful or maybe a
Speaker 5: foreign sort of occult system that is in Christianity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and right, And even you know James Clevel's Shogun, right,
Speaker 3: he even talks about all these missionaries, and for a
Speaker 3: long time the shogun that was a little you know, insular,
Speaker 3: and they were you know, keeping Jesuits at bay and
Speaker 3: all these like Franciscans.
Speaker 1: And eventually right that that breaks.
Speaker 3: But you know, I tend to it was something I
Speaker 3: noticed as a kid, and now that with social media
Speaker 3: it's just so amplified that I use it almost as
Speaker 3: like a scrying marror to write do almost psychoanalysis on myself.
Speaker 1: Right, or to do some sort of depth psychology.
Speaker 3: Or you know, whatever it is, but they are I
Speaker 3: think you almost enter in like these kind of hypnogogic
Speaker 3: free associative states, right, and so then from that you
Speaker 3: can get these really interesting perspectives. They're highly generative. And
Speaker 3: then that's kind of why I write.
Speaker 1: A lot of my threads.
Speaker 5: So one thing I wanted to mention was that something
Speaker 5: Nick brought up about the sort of fifties or you
Speaker 5: brought it up, Mark, but Nick commented on it.
Speaker 6: It was all the fifties and sixties and the sort
Speaker 6: of post.
Speaker 5: War infusion of anime with the sort of cubalistic and
Speaker 5: Masonic colors. There is a very famous Osama Osamu Tezuka
Speaker 5: manga about the life of the Buddha, but it's he
Speaker 5: also wrote a sort of a compendium or a companion.
Speaker 5: It's not really interrelated, but it's interrelated in a broadway
Speaker 5: about the Phoenix.
Speaker 6: And so yeah, yeah, I'm sure you know.
Speaker 5: What I'm talking about, right, Yeah, it's trippy.
Speaker 1: So he did Metropolis too.
Speaker 5: Right, Yes, So he's like a great manga master. He
Speaker 5: had worked at Disney for like I don't know, two
Speaker 5: years or so, but he clearly brought something back with
Speaker 5: him in this understanding. Like you can even look at
Speaker 5: like Astro Boy in the color like red, white and gold,
Speaker 5: and it's just it's it's it's there's something in it
Speaker 5: that he's carrying back and it's But it's interesting because
Speaker 5: when you look at him treat Buddhist metaphysics or Eustasian metaphysics,
Speaker 5: it is different. You can see that there's a slight
Speaker 5: distinction between the between the systems, or at least his
Speaker 5: thinking on it, whereas the later, like the late the
Speaker 5: late eighties and the early nineties anime, you can see
Speaker 5: that they're blending these ideas in like Card.
Speaker 6: Captor Sucker is a really good example.
Speaker 5: Even Sailor Moon's a really good example where they're clearly
Speaker 5: adding like a little bit of Shinto on meoto Buddhism
Speaker 5: with kabbala, with ritual magic seals and pentagrams, and as
Speaker 5: you've noted, they often use very real invocation sigils in
Speaker 5: a lot in a wide range of anime.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that was the weirdest thing because before you know,
Speaker 3: I would see this as a kid and I think, oh,
Speaker 3: maybe that's like an astrological sign or I didn't know
Speaker 3: what it was, and then finally years later I could
Speaker 3: do enough research and going these are actual magic sigils,
Speaker 3: like somebody has done their homework. It's not like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm would drawing a scribble or it's a
Speaker 3: cheap replica, like I generally believe a lot of the
Speaker 3: guys at the higher end of Japanese culture do all
Speaker 3: this stuff, even though like hell Ninja Guidan, right, I mean, what.
Speaker 1: Are they fighting Ishtar and he's he's a dragon. I mean,
Speaker 1: like all of these games are just a trip.
Speaker 3: So and so, you know, talking about Metropolis, that's going
Speaker 3: back to what's his name, Fritz Lang or you know
Speaker 3: the Silent movie with the you know, talks about the
Speaker 3: Tower of Babbel and the and the mechanical Golum. That's
Speaker 3: almost kind of my operative thesis is that something in
Speaker 3: the human imagination drives us into civilization. We build these
Speaker 3: power structures, and from our activities we begin to draw
Speaker 3: potencies from some hidden place and like this is a
Speaker 3: karma that like humanity has to somehow work through, and
Speaker 3: and by studying this it could almost become an antidote
Speaker 3: that we learn about ourselves and maybe try to speak
Speaker 3: to it without becoming just delirious or you know, because
Speaker 3: you make yourself paranoid and crazy?
Speaker 1: Well what does that mean? Does that mean?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: And so I, you know, I try to at least
Speaker 3: create some of these threads that are more systematized and
Speaker 3: break it down rather than just you know, I mentioned
Speaker 3: that Charlie Damien where you just like you've gun bonkers
Speaker 3: and everyone you're just noticing incessantly, and so that that's
Speaker 3: kind of what's happening, is we become cartoons by going,
Speaker 3: well did you see that thing that happened today? Right,
Speaker 3: It's it's like under the Silver Lake. You know, the
Speaker 3: guy is like just pulling all these threads and it's
Speaker 3: its form of masturbation, and he doesn't resolve anything, and
Speaker 3: he's just like some dude like you know, squatting in
Speaker 3: someone's apartment at the end of the movie and like
Speaker 3: nothing else to figure it out.
Speaker 5: So there definitely is a fine line between schizo poster
Speaker 5: and like high IQ noticer. So but you know, I
Speaker 5: think that's totally right, Mark. I think that, you know,
Speaker 5: it's it's all pervading. So what do we do with
Speaker 5: that that knowledge? Do we do we schizophos about it?
Speaker 5: Or do we uh, you know, sort of look at
Speaker 5: it as a hermoneutic look at us as part of
Speaker 5: like a system in which at least to understand at
Speaker 5: least a little bit at least, you know, climb up
Speaker 5: a little higher. So I agree with you. I think
Speaker 5: that's where what I sort of think about. I know,
Speaker 5: Nick and I talk about this a lot off cameras
Speaker 5: or a lot off show, is that like what do
Speaker 5: you do? What do you like make of the the
Speaker 5: occults everywhere? So you might as well, you might as
Speaker 5: well obtain the dragon.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, I mean, I uh, that's why I
Speaker 3: wrote that last thread on you know krscuro and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, how to just dive into a lot of
Speaker 3: this stuff. So everyone tends to be skipping on like
Speaker 3: the surface of these little things and it's like a cat,
Speaker 3: you know, chasing the laser beam, you know, and I
Speaker 3: want to kind of figure out, like what is the
Speaker 3: actual thing that's directing the laser beam. And so right,
Speaker 3: that's why I like write about neon genesis of you know,
Speaker 3: what is what are these larger power structures really doing?
Speaker 3: Because they frankly don't care about.
Speaker 1: You know, what we're doing day to day, right, we're
Speaker 1: almost a liability.
Speaker 3: So you know, whether it's the economics, they're going to
Speaker 3: make things more expensive, they're going to start another war, right,
Speaker 3: the biggest thing is like how does the society or
Speaker 3: civilization go to the either the stars?
Speaker 1: But what what can we do on the ground.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, first of all, it's just understand that the
Speaker 3: system is maybe not aligned with us.
Speaker 1: So you know, probably maybe.
Speaker 3: Be at least on the edge of the system, have
Speaker 3: some form of financial independence that's much easier said than done.
Speaker 3: Probably be tied in a land a little bit more.
Speaker 3: Maybe just read and exercise a lot more, you know,
Speaker 3: and try to find like minded and somewhat somewhat measured people,
Speaker 3: you know, to act as a counterbalance against the hysteria
Speaker 3: that you know, I continue see online. You know, there's
Speaker 3: there's almost two worlds where we're in the one of
Speaker 3: the the timeline it just keeps going and everyone's like
Speaker 3: spun up, and then it's like, well, I have to
Speaker 3: go to work and I have to you know, I
Speaker 3: got to make do with the you know, the things
Speaker 3: that I'm giving. You know, folks on your relationships, you know,
Speaker 3: talk to the people you know that are in your life.
Speaker 3: And and so that's kind.
Speaker 1: Of the balance.
Speaker 3: And you know, that's why I wrote on the Neon
Speaker 3: Genesis was because you know, like Shinji for instance, like
Speaker 3: a lot of that is about these people wrestling with
Speaker 3: their their internal emotions and trying to connect with people
Speaker 3: while there's this larger space opera that's you know, unfolding
Speaker 3: around them. And so these things are very real simultaneously,
Speaker 3: and you know, it's not an either or, it's a
Speaker 3: it's a yes and yes and yes, and but then
Speaker 3: to integrate it in a way that you know, we
Speaker 3: can be somewhat a little creative and unhinged, but then
Speaker 3: we're also busy, productive and present for the people in
Speaker 3: our lives.
Speaker 2: You definitely need to have a balance.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, well I'm sure that's something right that you've
Speaker 3: talked to, you know about with the Oto all these
Speaker 3: personalities and everyone's like it's a power trip or backstabbing,
Speaker 3: and oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is it. It's a silly it's
Speaker 2: a silly game going on over there.
Speaker 4: They even keep it short, just like just like the
Speaker 4: way it is over there with like ego trips. It's
Speaker 4: like this, I have one kid that like I'm kind
Speaker 4: of still cool with that's like in it. And the
Speaker 4: only reason he's been staying into this because he thinks
Speaker 4: he can rise up and actually get like a position
Speaker 4: in something. And he was like, he's like he's like, yo,
Speaker 4: like eighty percent of these things already given away, like
Speaker 4: people that have like these positions. He's like, they're all feminists.
Speaker 4: He's like, I'm never gonna have a fucking voice here
Speaker 4: at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, but that's the thing too, right, is
Speaker 3: like masonry, magic, you know, sex, They're almost right, those
Speaker 3: occult forms are now mainstream in the form of corporations, right, literally,
Speaker 3: corporations like modern business is emerges from the East India company, right,
Speaker 3: and all these colonial powers that had charters from the
Speaker 3: queen or you know, the king, whoever it was, and
Speaker 3: so we're living in that world. These structures emerge that
Speaker 3: are very hierarchical, and it all becomes wheeling and dealing
Speaker 3: and how can I come out on top? And and
Speaker 3: so now when you you know, you see these things
Speaker 3: like feminism, it's like, on the face of it, yeah,
Speaker 3: I have no problem you know with you know, you know,
Speaker 3: minorities or people being you know, you know, we hear
Speaker 3: their voices, yes, but when it's used as a tool
Speaker 3: to just kind of silence any you know, real discussion
Speaker 3: about hey, are we going.
Speaker 1: On the right direction as a people? Does this make sense? Right?
Speaker 3: That then it's like okay, no, I'm not on board.
Speaker 3: And it's almost a form of like corporate eugenics that
Speaker 3: you can then use to write because you're you're you're
Speaker 3: dissolving nations and it's all about labor markets at a
Speaker 3: certain point, and we're almost returning back to these large
Speaker 3: trade conglomerates, you know, and we're on the high seas
Speaker 3: because we do live in this corporate magic thing.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: We could talk about like admiralty law a little bit,
Speaker 3: or like Jordan Maxwell and a lot of his stuff,
Speaker 3: but like that that is actually I think a valid
Speaker 3: form of analysis, and so all of these things kind
Speaker 3: of fold into themselves there. There there's no bifurcation. There
Speaker 3: isn't a hard line in the sand, because if you know,
Speaker 3: there's enough of the study, you begin to understanding like,
Speaker 3: oh wow, this is almost like a living fluid pan
Speaker 3: psychic you know, reality, right, And that's why I refer
Speaker 3: to like the theater and things like that.
Speaker 2: Definitely theater did you want to say something.
Speaker 5: I just I think what you said Mark was really interesting,
Speaker 5: just as you can look at the sort of the
Speaker 5: corporeal body not just in one property of media, but
Speaker 5: in media or as you're saying, in economics as a whole,
Speaker 5: like you're saying, the whole body is kind of like
Speaker 5: the Golam or the Adam Cadman, the whole economy.
Speaker 6: It's just like it's kind of.
Speaker 5: Interconnected loosely but also broadly and also deeply in one
Speaker 5: way of thinking, right, there are at least they have
Speaker 5: at least some kind of you know, electrical charge or
Speaker 5: dialectrical relationship between the two, whether whether they're fully integrated
Speaker 5: or not. So I think that's really interesting that you
Speaker 5: can look at one small property as looking at like
Speaker 5: one specific cell, like looking at Evangelion or breath of Fire,
Speaker 5: and that's just looking at the micro And then what
Speaker 5: they're talking about is the macro.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, right, and I think even using the matrix is
Speaker 3: probably a really good, you know, tool to just plug
Speaker 3: in right this computer programming. Right, we talked about this,
Speaker 3: you know, and on your show of you know, either
Speaker 3: the fighting games or you know, the if I'm going
Speaker 3: to do the hadouken or all these you know, jump kicks,
Speaker 3: and the same thing, how do I manifest the reality
Speaker 3: through this energetic system And that totally tracks back into
Speaker 3: the ceremonial magic or or forms of gestalt psychology, And
Speaker 3: that's basically what neon Genesis is all about. Right in
Speaker 3: this it's almost like human instright. Human instrumentality is probably
Speaker 3: one of my primary interests of how do I play
Speaker 3: the human instrument in the most effective way?
Speaker 1: And what are going to be.
Speaker 3: What what will be the results from those interactions? And
Speaker 3: can we all play together? We can do our solos,
Speaker 3: we can do a collaborative orchestration right an arrangement, or
Speaker 3: or we can have created a wild dissonance and no,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be the I'm gonna be the lead singer.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna you know.
Speaker 3: And you can see this in bands too, So it's
Speaker 3: it does all feed into one thing. And so that's
Speaker 3: I'm I'm a little disappointed to see everyone kind of
Speaker 3: go crazy and maybe not align with a better future.
Speaker 5: I think this is interesting, just as like maybe a
Speaker 5: broader commentary on your work is that your work is
Speaker 5: about the hero's journey and it's about that specific thing
Speaker 5: that you just said that we get to determine, like
Speaker 5: a large part of our will determines reality. Right, it's
Speaker 5: a reality shaping, just like being online or on social
Speaker 5: media is reality shaping. Like the narratives that we say
Speaker 5: on the timeline, which is magic because it's traveling through
Speaker 5: time and space in other people's minds, especially if the
Speaker 5: tweet is popular.
Speaker 6: So I mean that's magic. So the things that we say.
Speaker 5: Are broadly like determinant of what that where we at
Speaker 5: least can influence to a small degree.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but now it's all mainstream, Like all of these
Speaker 3: methods and magic practices are vulgar, but know that they're
Speaker 3: just covered in corporate jargon and how can I get
Speaker 3: more productivity out of this person?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 1: And so people are it's like.
Speaker 3: The office or was just like grinding away lifeless because yeah,
Speaker 3: you're actually not contributing, you know, your own destiny to
Speaker 3: this You you've been subsumed or absorbed or or right,
Speaker 3: there's almost like a hex put on you and they're
Speaker 3: channeling your energy. And uh, that doesn't mean those things
Speaker 3: are bad, you know, I don't I don't want from
Speaker 3: this discussion for anybody to think like, oh, I just
Speaker 3: like hate companies or I hate business, Like, No, that's
Speaker 3: that's not that's not it Like they actually serve a purpose.
Speaker 3: That's how we you know, a company is a magic
Speaker 3: arrangement of space and time with other people. Right, it's
Speaker 3: but we've somehow made a distinction. Oh no, that's not
Speaker 3: the case. And right, and we're actually summoning magic artifacts
Speaker 3: through these incantations. Only we call them plans or schematics
Speaker 3: or you know, intellectual property, and and.
Speaker 1: So they're there. There's there's no there's no fine line there.
Speaker 3: But and so uh, that's why I think neo genesis
Speaker 3: is actually like the best thing to talk about because
Speaker 3: it all blurs together.
Speaker 1: It's all military, it's all personal.
Speaker 3: Uh, you know, magic space making interfacing and fighting aliens
Speaker 3: in some way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's get let's get I think uh, I think
Speaker 5: we're already. I think we'll get into Evangelian. But I
Speaker 5: do want to say one thing broadly about maybe just
Speaker 5: like the new media video games and animes specifically, is
Speaker 5: that the visual the visualization sometimes that they depict are
Speaker 5: actually very esoteric visualizations that you would use in tontrac Buddhism,
Speaker 5: and not just Tondraic Buddism, but I think broadly like
Speaker 5: the kind of East Asian sorcery. You could even say
Speaker 5: like a lot of the metaphysics that are just seeming
Speaker 5: seemingly stylistic or esthetic choices actually have like a deeper
Speaker 5: metaphysical implication. So there's like an idea that you could
Speaker 5: use even in chaos magic.
Speaker 6: Like Peter Carroll writes about this in cybermagic, is that.
Speaker 5: You can take the ideas from the video game itself,
Speaker 5: apply it to the sodna, or apply it to what
Speaker 5: he doesn't call it an I'm calling but when you're
Speaker 5: he's doing magic, he's actually taking the what he sees
Speaker 5: on the video game and he's applying it to that
Speaker 5: internal whatever is happening inside of his mind. So he's
Speaker 5: actually kind of remixing this meta reality what he's perceiving
Speaker 5: and then also what he's exerting his will on. So
Speaker 5: I think, but I think it's true that you can
Speaker 5: use there are actually a lot of very deep interesting
Speaker 5: color choices.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 6: Even the Hadukin thing that you said, Mark.
Speaker 5: Like, that's that's like the ball of basra energy that
Speaker 5: you like in yourself.
Speaker 6: And that you draw from, you know, the void.
Speaker 5: Element, you could say, so there's something like really, there's
Speaker 5: some really deep shit there, so.
Speaker 4: Real quick, I mean, I'm just trying to ask you,
Speaker 4: do you think the aliens are even like kind of
Speaker 4: in a aspect, yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, right, I've written a little bit on like
Speaker 3: Breadth of Fire too, and right even right, Neon Genesis
Speaker 3: is kind of time about these alien things. I suspect
Speaker 3: technology is an amplifier, it's a mirror. It's a horizon
Speaker 3: by which our future expands. And we're at a point
Speaker 3: where the technologies are harmonizing, they're converging, and it's going
Speaker 3: to radically change humanity. And so I think the West
Speaker 3: right now, right, a lot of sovereign nations are saddled
Speaker 3: with huge amounts of debt, and you know, twentieth century
Speaker 3: global capitalism doesn't work. And so what we're seeing now
Speaker 3: like in Ukraine or Israel or you know, Syria Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 3: this is sort of a split along you know, Russia, China, Iran,
Speaker 3: and then you know, Saudi Arabia is maybe somewhat of
Speaker 3: the political football because they have a lot of the
Speaker 3: oil and so this is like it's an arms race,
Speaker 3: and so I think a lot of the alien stuff
Speaker 3: is mostly military technology that you know, they're using to
Speaker 3: first of all, just get a measure on psychometrics, so
Speaker 3: the population, they'll use that as a form of camouflage.
Speaker 3: It sounds nonsense, It sounds insane. Who would believe that
Speaker 3: or is it real? So I do believe that a
Speaker 3: lot of the technology is much further along than we've
Speaker 3: been led to believe. And you know, if you're like
Speaker 3: you know, the Pentagon or Five Eyes, you certainly have
Speaker 3: an interest in, you know, controlling you know, international trade.
Speaker 3: You want everyone to live in your franchise. And so
Speaker 3: we're I think we're at an inflection point historically, and
Speaker 3: that's why we're seeing the preponderance of all these UFOs,
Speaker 3: and everything's just being dialed up to the point where
Speaker 3: there's so much noise in the system that you can't
Speaker 3: really figure out what's going on.
Speaker 1: And and so the alien.
Speaker 3: Is just like the cherry on top, you know, and
Speaker 3: maybe that is like the un blue being really comes
Speaker 3: out right. And if that were the case, you know,
Speaker 3: I probably lose my marbles and just like pack my
Speaker 3: bags and.
Speaker 1: Go to the hills at that point, because it's like
Speaker 1: martial low.
Speaker 3: At that point, everything's off the table or on the table,
Speaker 3: I should say, you know, you're gonna lose your constitutional
Speaker 3: rights or your civil liberties.
Speaker 1: And and so I don't.
Speaker 3: Think people really understand like where we are historically, and
Speaker 3: you know, it's almost like we're on the verge of
Speaker 3: you know, World War one again, you know, not to
Speaker 3: make it sound you know, extreme or or hyperbolic, but
Speaker 3: we could go in a lot of different directions. And
Speaker 3: I think the alien is a representative of those you know,
Speaker 3: flights of uh you know, uh flight or you know escape, right,
Speaker 3: the escape of not only the world, but but like
Speaker 3: our own preconceptions of ourselves.
Speaker 1: And so that's why I really latched on all this
Speaker 1: in the thread.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I just wanted to get an idea because
Speaker 4: in my opinion, I do think, just my opinion, I
Speaker 4: do think the use of aliens is like it deeply
Speaker 4: occulted archetype or multiple things, you know. So I just
Speaker 4: was wondering, like if you were possibly viewing it like
Speaker 4: that as well, considering just to show you think it
Speaker 4: is already a cult and it's got aliens mixed in there.
Speaker 2: I'm sure that it's used for something, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, I mean, look at I was right. I
Speaker 1: Mean the dude literally is like a gray alien, you know.
Speaker 3: So right, this is the thing we see all over
Speaker 3: the internet. Oh, it could be it's an angel, I'm
Speaker 3: channeling a higher intelligence, or it's a you know, inter
Speaker 3: dimensional alien or right, it's it's just the concept of
Speaker 3: the other, of the outside, and of the unknown, just
Speaker 3: manifest in a shape right in that shape could take
Speaker 3: on any appearance. Right, So it's like it's just this,
Speaker 3: it's it's the axe, right. That's why I also find
Speaker 3: it fascinating that twin is now called X. You know,
Speaker 3: it's it could be anything. It's just a placeholder. And
Speaker 3: we're at this point in time where the change is
Speaker 3: so rapid and the human evolution is kind of right,
Speaker 3: this is where you get to either transhumanism, right, which
Speaker 3: could be a benefit, it could be totally destructive.
Speaker 1: And that's literally what Neon Genesis is all about.
Speaker 3: You know, Like the beginning of the show is like
Speaker 3: there's been massive climate change, there's been a catastrophe, there
Speaker 3: are smart cities, and there's all this technology, and now
Speaker 3: you have right advanced research institutes, you know, battling chaos
Speaker 3: in some way, or or in the form of the angel,
Speaker 3: you know, and so these things kind of just take
Speaker 3: on this exteriority that human beings have to collectively manage.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 4: Did you want to say something before we, I guess
Speaker 4: get into the actual topic so yourself.
Speaker 6: Oh no, I appreciate that, Thank you, Nick.
Speaker 5: I just wanted to say that this series for me
Speaker 5: is a very I would say important in terms of
Speaker 5: when I first saw it, I did not understand how
Speaker 5: deep the metaphysics was, but I probably recognize some parts
Speaker 5: of it because it's so obvious. Just like the I'm
Speaker 5: sure that you'll get into Mark, the cabalistic tree falls
Speaker 5: down into the intro with all the paths intact. So
Speaker 5: there's something really interesting about even the just the outer presentation.
Speaker 5: For me, as like a whatever the twelve year old
Speaker 5: or however old I was, there was something.
Speaker 6: It was a very meaty.
Speaker 5: It was very like, oh, this is like a little transgressive,
Speaker 5: this is a little like ritual magic. There's something like
Speaker 5: a little deeper here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and you know, Idiokaiano, he himself, you know,
Speaker 3: has stated like he was depressed and he was struggling
Speaker 3: with a lot of stuff like during the show and
Speaker 3: that's imparted in the in the care right.
Speaker 1: So if you want to kind of put in the context.
Speaker 3: Of a hero's journey, right, this whole thing is like
Speaker 3: humanity going on on its hero's journey at the you know,
Speaker 3: as in the macro and the micro, in the children, right,
Speaker 3: the future of humanity, but also you know, collectively as
Speaker 3: can we not destroy ourselves? And you know, like literally
Speaker 3: going into all this stuff, like I'll just talk about
Speaker 3: I have the thread pulled up so we could just
Speaker 3: you know, look at the slogan right nerve.
Speaker 1: You know, God's in his heaven, All's right.
Speaker 3: With the world, and you know that's I'm pretty sure
Speaker 3: it's a vine leaf and it's nerve. Right, So all
Speaker 3: of these things are already suggestive of, you know, something Christian,
Speaker 3: and it's like a Christian science right at the forefront.
Speaker 4: I was going to say, it almost has physiology, kind
Speaker 4: of like being thrown in the face ready.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So the whole thing is.
Speaker 3: And I'm you almost using these these threads as a
Speaker 3: means of fleshing out a bigger like a broader theory,
Speaker 3: you know, and hopefully maybe down the road I could
Speaker 3: write a thread that tieses them all together in one
Speaker 3: final well maybe not a final thing, but a general
Speaker 3: outline of like how to navigate all this.
Speaker 1: But you know, right, the second page is second impact.
Speaker 3: Right, So they discovered Adam in Antarctica of all places.
Speaker 1: Right, so we're you know, you could.
Speaker 3: Now go into oh maybe it's a Nazi moon based thing,
Speaker 3: you know, with it's the ice wall. Right, We're already
Speaker 3: talking about Antarctica. So these things have these correspondences in
Speaker 3: the media today that are being thrown in our face.
Speaker 2: So you really interesting.
Speaker 4: I just want to throw this in there real quick.
Speaker 4: We had this guy, Leon Southgate on recently that should
Speaker 4: drop actually probably before this, and he's like real big
Speaker 4: into orgon and stuff, and he's like studying all this
Speaker 4: other stuff and like like like they're finding I think,
Speaker 4: like other smaller things of life now or things that like,
Speaker 4: believe it or not, something that's kind of dead, something
Speaker 4: could almost come from it. He was going on about
Speaker 4: something and he said, the most abundance of that stuff
Speaker 4: is found in like ice, and he says he does
Speaker 4: question now the whole thing with Antartica because he says,
Speaker 4: technically that should be like crazy spot to find this
Speaker 4: type of stuff it's as silly as it sounds.
Speaker 2: And like, I if people.
Speaker 4: Were to hear the way we were actually talking about,
Speaker 4: because I can't you know, whatever there's but it's above me.
Speaker 4: But I mean when the guy explains like what's going
Speaker 4: on with Orgon and all this stuff and how like
Speaker 4: what what it does and how people are looking at
Speaker 4: it as like life or consciousness, now you're almost like,
Speaker 4: could that actually be with these fucking people? But doing
Speaker 4: up there? Doing up there now? Because it's all ice.
Speaker 4: I mean, they're not doing anything with it, are they.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, maybe they are, but you
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying, it's just like really weird how
Speaker 4: something like that wild and basic and powerful actually can
Speaker 4: be found in snow and ice cubes and we're not.
Speaker 2: Allowed to go to an article I don't know, just
Speaker 2: to be hopest.
Speaker 6: Yeah that's the trip.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they've got that.
Speaker 3: That the what is it that they've got a treaty
Speaker 3: like you can't really go you can't drill for anything
Speaker 3: down there, you can't really sail down there, and and
Speaker 3: so there is right there is a thread of this,
Speaker 3: like you know the Hyperborea bros, you know, getting hung
Speaker 3: up on you know, the Nazi UFOs and stuff, but
Speaker 3: it is being put out there, and again it's contextualized
Speaker 3: with clandestine technology. So I do suspect though that like
Speaker 3: there are proprietary and top secret uh forms of metaphysics
Speaker 3: and ontologies that are not released to the public because
Speaker 3: their weapons. Right, because if if I had an ability
Speaker 3: to engage with reality in a certain way, that would.
Speaker 1: Give me a competitive advantage.
Speaker 3: And so what we tend to, you know, live with
Speaker 3: generally is you know consumer Oh I saw someone's you know,
Speaker 3: I saw some boobs and some butts and some.
Speaker 1: Guy and there's a little romance.
Speaker 3: Oh, there's a little drama, and that's kind of like
Speaker 3: we can talk about that stuff, but God forbid, you know,
Speaker 3: we're going to you know, improve ourselves spiritually or you know,
Speaker 3: become independent and strong and whole like no like stay
Speaker 3: in the in the in the in the dust bin.
Speaker 3: And so I do think the smartphone and all this
Speaker 3: connectivity does amplify it in both ways. Right, It can
Speaker 3: make you insane and now you're obsessed and you're studying
Speaker 3: all the ice, but it does allude to something else.
Speaker 3: And I don't think, you know, I think we should
Speaker 3: at least pay credence to the possibility that those things
Speaker 3: are very real, all that quack science, all the mk
Speaker 3: Ultra Start Project, Stargate. I put a lot of stock
Speaker 3: in those things. How they actually work in practice, I
Speaker 3: don't really know, right because we don't have that access
Speaker 3: and we don't have you know, the patents or.
Speaker 1: The clearance for it.
Speaker 5: So Mark, I'm looking at your EVANGELI on Throad right now,
Speaker 5: and I'm the section on the I know you're probably
Speaker 5: not even have gone here, but about the children, and
Speaker 5: so it's just thought you could go over because I
Speaker 5: think that Nick, and also people watching we'll find the
Speaker 5: names of it really interesting. And the three kids you mean, yes,
Speaker 5: the DARPA program that is like the Marduke Institute and
Speaker 5: United Nations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there was like that's kind of nuts, Like, right, Marduke,
Speaker 3: what is he the Babylonian god of the storm?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: This again we're going back to the concept of this
Speaker 3: like the right Empire of Marduke fights Tiamat and you
Speaker 3: know it's almost like what is it the theogony right
Speaker 3: of the Titans and the Greek gods right now, you know,
Speaker 3: taking over there's this kind of changing of the Guard.
Speaker 3: It's put into the future. But yeah, so Marduke is
Speaker 3: basically like, you know, it's like DARPA or you know,
Speaker 3: the Ghostbusters, right, you generally believe of Ghostbusters is fairly real,
Speaker 3: you know, like all this ESP stuff, right, human beings
Speaker 3: have a ton of potential. It's mostly being squashed and
Speaker 3: what is known is like, right, like why would you
Speaker 3: want that to be public knowledge? Right, that's not even
Speaker 3: a conspiracy. It's like, hey, this is actually valuable. I
Speaker 3: want to be able to sell it, you know. It's
Speaker 3: like if you had any sort of business plan, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I want to monetize it. And so like this shot
Speaker 3: where it says like top secret only, you know, top
Speaker 3: secret for your eyes only. That's from the show, right,
Speaker 3: Like in Japan is actually draws heavily on all this
Speaker 3: UN stuff, and so it's almost like Japan during the
Speaker 3: sixties and seventies became like the UN's like trial ground
Speaker 3: for the post war era of like, Okay, now we're
Speaker 3: going to try to institute these policies. And it's repeatedly
Speaker 3: shown again and again United Nations. They've got the tanks, right,
Speaker 3: They've got it's a top secret UN program. Marduk Is
Speaker 3: references Babylon and the three children. They're they're all gift
Speaker 3: they're gifted children, and they've been selected from birth or
Speaker 3: they're genetically engineered, and their names are all loaded with
Speaker 3: these insane references.
Speaker 1: Let me find it on the on.
Speaker 3: The thread, right, So Asuka, right, she's the redhead. It's
Speaker 3: literally the feminine version of Akira. Right, and Akira is
Speaker 3: a reference is like right means shining light. And all
Speaker 3: the kids are psychics and they're espers, and again it's
Speaker 3: his play on technology, and you know, the character starts
Speaker 3: absorbing all this metal and becomes this huge machinic monstrosity
Speaker 3: in a very similar way, you know, to what we're
Speaker 3: almost doing on our own. And so it's you know,
Speaker 3: it's almost like our magic spells have like gotten out
Speaker 3: of control and we need to like reel them in.
Speaker 3: It's it's almost like Fantasia, you know, with the Sorcerer's
Speaker 3: Apprentice and he's getting the brooms going well, and now
Speaker 3: they're kind of got running wild, flooding the you know,
Speaker 3: the Wizard's laboratory and he's going, oh man, I got
Speaker 3: to fix this mess. And so a lot of this
Speaker 3: is like I think we can begin to grapple with
Speaker 3: how does technology wildly distort our own potential?
Speaker 1: And how's it running her own lives? So right, and
Speaker 1: and all.
Speaker 3: These kids have like huge psychological issues. They can all
Speaker 3: be like identified in like cluster A, B or C.
Speaker 3: But yeah, Asuka is you know, the the alternative to
Speaker 3: a Kira shining fragrant. Like her last name is uh,
Speaker 3: her middle name is Langley c I A right.
Speaker 2: Like uh what yeah, like so on that head.
Speaker 3: You know, like okay, and soriy you blue green dragon
Speaker 3: and she's the firebrand.
Speaker 1: She's like hot headed, and you know she does crazy stuff.
Speaker 3: Her mom killed herself and uh, you know there's all
Speaker 3: these flashbacks with the kids and right again it's kind
Speaker 3: of reference to the dolls or the play things of
Speaker 3: you know, God or the gods. It's kind of a trip,
Speaker 3: you know Shinji, Right, we got the picture of him
Speaker 3: that's literally you know, his father's desk, his father's office
Speaker 3: is placed between the capstone of the pyramid and and
Speaker 3: the and the base and right, the shadow it creates
Speaker 3: is right, uh, you know what you could consider right
Speaker 3: a tifferreth or you know, or you know, the Israeli
Speaker 3: Star David or you know ren Fan and the Union
Speaker 3: of Above and the blow and it's a shadow cast
Speaker 3: and then the floor of the office is literally the
Speaker 3: tree alike.
Speaker 1: It's this huge cabalistic expression.
Speaker 3: And he's right, his name represents you know, the true
Speaker 3: ruler New expansion. So right, this is like what what
Speaker 3: what what we alluded to in the other episode of uh,
Speaker 3: you know, like the the death and rebirth, almost like
Speaker 3: the way Horace is. And so he's kind of like
Speaker 3: this Horus figure or this potentially a Christ figure, but
Speaker 3: certainly a much more compromised, you know version. He's a child,
Speaker 3: he's been abused by the father in like this like
Speaker 3: kind of fallen demiurgic way. And his last name is
Speaker 3: uh in a car anchor wrath rage. So there's something
Speaker 3: keeping him anchoring him to this physical world.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: And he's he's actually kind of a like a you know,
Speaker 3: a negative antagonist. He's he's, you know, your quintessential failure.
Speaker 3: And so the whole movie, not the whole series, he's
Speaker 3: like really struggling to step up the whole time, and
Speaker 3: he just resents everyone and he feels cut off. Uh
Speaker 3: and then ray Uh right, that's zero spirit, my shepherd
Speaker 3: Ayanami twilled waves. Right, that's almost like this quantum physics thing.
Speaker 3: And she's like cloned again and again. She keeps getting
Speaker 3: killed in the series, and so she's like, you know,
Speaker 3: hell with like which one am I? She's also the
Speaker 3: clone of right, uh, Shingy's mom, and there's all this
Speaker 3: like weird sexual tension between the two of them, like
Speaker 3: he's kind of like into her. And then there's a
Speaker 3: shot of like Gendo like like it's like his daughter,
Speaker 3: but the clone of his dead wife.
Speaker 1: Right, So all of this is like.
Speaker 3: Super Freudian, Right, I touched again on right Oedipus and right,
Speaker 3: all these kind of these Greek themes psychoanalysts, uh, highly
Speaker 3: prevalent in the whole series.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 3: And then the the cloning chamber right literally is like
Speaker 3: this this brain cylinder and on the floor of this
Speaker 3: on her cloning chamber, the dub dummy plug plant is
Speaker 3: from the British Library, right from the urs Ghotia. Like
Speaker 3: that is such a bizarre thing to have in a cartoon,
Speaker 3: Like what I like? I Right, And there's like a
Speaker 3: Tessa ract the black cube four corners right this right,
Speaker 3: the elements and ether right, and it's like Ether is
Speaker 3: almost like the Oregone anyways.
Speaker 1: And so all of this is like pretty wild and sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want to keep.
Speaker 2: What did you mention about thea.
Speaker 1: So if you look, yeah, in the thread, I have
Speaker 1: a shot of this.
Speaker 2: I can't find his threat unfortunately. Yeah right, I was
Speaker 2: going through.
Speaker 4: You know, you know what, I didn't realize real quick
Speaker 4: just to uh so you know, I can get this
Speaker 4: link and maybe catch up something. I noticed you big
Speaker 4: into Twin Peaks.
Speaker 1: I'm huge in the Twin.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just noticed going through your your Twitter, I
Speaker 4: was like, I've seen him post David Lynch a Twin
Speaker 4: Peaks a few times. I was like, this is interesting, nice, nice.
Speaker 1: I did not know that it's the same thing. Man,
Speaker 1: Oh it's right. And so it's like.
Speaker 2: It's funny too.
Speaker 4: How you mentioned the Goatia and I'm thinking about you know,
Speaker 4: I'm seeing Twin Peaks because even in Twin Peaks, at
Speaker 4: one point on the side of the chalkboard in like
Speaker 4: the police office, there is a sigil from the Goasia,
Speaker 4: one of the demons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I started.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, have you've seen this show, right, yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a huge fan. Yeah, yeah, big.
Speaker 1: Dad's trick to be right, and it's like the yeah,
Speaker 1: the whole thing's nuts.
Speaker 3: And right he's what is he like the Zen supposed
Speaker 3: Zen Buddhist And you know, I think he's probably an
Speaker 3: I hope he's a nice guy, but yeah, but the
Speaker 3: major in Twin Peaks, he's like part of the same thing. Oh,
Speaker 3: it's there's these interdimensional alien maybe thing or their demons. Right,
Speaker 3: this almost goes right into X Files, right, and then
Speaker 3: all of Lynch's movies are almost like this, right again,
Speaker 3: this dream state that you like wander into and there's
Speaker 3: like so much meaning. And and then actually when the
Speaker 3: when the new season came out, somebody made a post
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago saying it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: now America has been sort of separated and blown apart
Speaker 3: into smithereens, and now we're just like living in these
Speaker 3: like private vignettes and and right, the story like barely
Speaker 3: coheres only for like Lynch is insane, right, unfolding an
Speaker 3: involution of the of the whole narrative. But like that
Speaker 3: that's how how I'm approaching a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 3: Is like we're into Twin Peaks, like we're in deep
Speaker 3: and it's like everything means everything, and it's like pay
Speaker 3: attention and pull the thread and just be careful that
Speaker 3: you don't spin yourself out.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that is interesting.
Speaker 4: It was like, all right, sorry, I forgot where. Oh so, yeah,
Speaker 4: you did mentioned something about the urs gatia, Right, I
Speaker 4: forgot where was that something because you saw something in
Speaker 4: the show, like a symbolism for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, it's in the show.
Speaker 3: And so one of the three children, you know, the
Speaker 3: girl who's the I know, gets super convoluted. The girl
Speaker 3: who's the the clone of the dead scientist's wife is
Speaker 3: being like her sphere is being channeled back into the
Speaker 3: bodies through a glyph on the arts go asia like
Speaker 3: it's in the laboratory, and then it says, right, it's
Speaker 3: with the three divine written in divine names of Romanized
Speaker 3: Hebrew that are split into nine sections.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Each one of the nine sections contains names commonly allotted
Speaker 3: onto relevant numbers of the caballistic tree life. And I've
Speaker 3: heard people like, oh, you know, Hideaki, you know said
Speaker 3: I wanted to make like a cool show, and I
Speaker 3: saw some of this and I thought it would be
Speaker 3: cool if I just like threw it in there, and
Speaker 3: you know, I think he's being really tongue in chek
Speaker 3: because there's there's just way too much attention to detail
Speaker 3: in the whole like in the in the whole show,
Speaker 3: I mean, this is like that that like that's even
Speaker 3: like in the cartoon. It is like bizarre that that's
Speaker 3: someone's doing a ton of research and you don't just
Speaker 3: like casually throw it in there.
Speaker 1: And then.
Speaker 6: I just want to say that that that's hand drawn.
Speaker 5: So the sequences are drawn by a group of people
Speaker 5: that must be looking at the actual glyph or sigil,
Speaker 5: and a lot of anime uses the correct sigils. That's
Speaker 5: what's really interesting. That's what catches my eye in particular,
Speaker 5: is that they don't it's not just like make believe.
Speaker 5: They're actually like looking at medieval grimoires, European grimoiirs, not
Speaker 5: always Europeans. Sometimes they will use Buddhist cinem script, but
Speaker 5: they actually use real spells. Like the spells are like
Speaker 5: very close to how they would be, and there the
Speaker 5: colors that they assign are actually very significant. And so
Speaker 5: even in this sequence that you're talking about where she's
Speaker 5: in the lab and her as you said.
Speaker 6: Her name means zero.
Speaker 2: So she is.
Speaker 5: Inherently the vesca pisces, or the vessel, the empty vessel
Speaker 5: through which to be imbued into spirit or spirits to
Speaker 5: be imbued into her. But she's kind of the negative
Speaker 5: forces like interaction, and she has that very purple of
Speaker 5: yasod hair. She wears like a quicksilver kind of jumpsuit.
Speaker 6: So yeah, there's.
Speaker 8: Absolutely like it's it's like a it's like almost letting
Speaker 8: you see a ritual if you were like maybe the
Speaker 8: maybe the plot of like the kids and all that stuff.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's like the scary sort of like outer ritual component.
Speaker 6: That's just how they're containing it.
Speaker 5: But it's really like it's about the colors, it's about
Speaker 5: the shapes, it's about.
Speaker 6: Yeah, how it all works together.
Speaker 5: And then plus its movement and sound, so it's like
Speaker 5: a really perfect ritual in consolation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really it's competent. And then they're there's they're
Speaker 1: putting this right in your face.
Speaker 3: It's right, and this is this show came out with
Speaker 3: thirty years ago, right, so it's not like a lot
Speaker 3: of this was like common knowledge, not not at least
Speaker 3: the way it is out there now, where you know
Speaker 3: you can go on some random form, and there's quite
Speaker 3: a few knowledgeable people like you had to go look
Speaker 3: all this stuff up, or you had to be initiated
Speaker 3: in this stuff.
Speaker 1: And this is the one.
Speaker 3: Thing that I keep coming back to. I cannot believe
Speaker 3: like for fifty sixty years this stuff has just been
Speaker 3: like thrown out there, and in some ways, like that's
Speaker 3: how I was initiated into like mystery religions and right
Speaker 3: perennial philosophy and begun to like explore magic accidentally.
Speaker 1: You know, it's through I got initiated through cartoons. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a trip.
Speaker 3: And so you know Genda Lacari, he's the mad scientist,
Speaker 3: he's Shinji's father. He's the head of Nerve and right,
Speaker 3: he wants to become god. He's literally on a path
Speaker 3: to godhood.
Speaker 1: And he's kind of a psychopath.
Speaker 3: He doesn't care about anybody, and his son has been abused,
Speaker 3: and so he manipulates them. And it turns out though
Speaker 3: that the second impact, right, this huge.
Speaker 1: Climate catastrophe, you know.
Speaker 3: Help them summon the power of Adam or these angels.
Speaker 3: But now they're coming to life too, ro merge with
Speaker 3: Adam again. And so you know this Adam is like
Speaker 3: this literally like an alien that came from outer space
Speaker 3: from this like you know, it's almost like Halo, you know,
Speaker 3: the the what are they called the Forerunners, right, this
Speaker 3: is like their version of it, and they crash landed
Speaker 3: on Earth, you know, millions of years ago. However, it
Speaker 3: was two strands of this species, Lilith and Adam and
Speaker 3: the angels are right, Adam's tree of life in the
Speaker 3: in the Lilan or the descendants of Lilith, who was
Speaker 3: again what was she Adam's first bride, but she was like,
Speaker 3: you know, a demon or she was corrupt and she
Speaker 3: tried to send him on his own way. So this
Speaker 3: whole bloodline they're like fighting. And then Ava is literally right,
Speaker 3: the union of the technology that the children like go into,
Speaker 3: so they're like biological meccas of the mother in some way.
Speaker 3: It's kind of strange, but.
Speaker 5: No, it's very it's very cabalistic. It's just like you like,
Speaker 5: you know, this market is like the it's the outer vessel.
Speaker 5: They take on this kind of like shape that they shape,
Speaker 5: so it's like their Golam. Nick had me on to
Speaker 5: speak with one from one on one and he talks
Speaker 5: a lot about the monkey.
Speaker 6: So it's like very like that.
Speaker 5: It's like they're creating a bio mechanical golum with planetary metals, colors,
Speaker 5: all the associations, plus they place the driver who has
Speaker 5: these innate separatic associations each of them themselves, and then
Speaker 5: they place them into the golams as kind of like
Speaker 5: a battery or a life force or a breath, you
Speaker 5: could say. And it's sort of right. It takes they
Speaker 5: take form in the in the higher heaven. So they
Speaker 5: are leaving Malcouth, they are leaving like the material world,
Speaker 5: and they're going higher than Ossia. I think that's sort
Speaker 5: of the idea too. But there is, like you've said
Speaker 5: this several times, but there's a very gnostic component, like
Speaker 5: a very nag Hamadi component to a lot of anime
Speaker 5: like you are you are, you are not never quite
Speaker 5: trapped in the world, but there's always a way to
Speaker 5: transcend it. There always is a way to move through it.
Speaker 5: There's always a way to change your dimension. There's like
Speaker 5: this gnostic idea that, yeah, the the universe is just
Speaker 5: like a bunch of intertange changeable worlds that you you.
Speaker 6: Know, can travel to at will.
Speaker 5: Like that's a very common theme, and I would say
Speaker 5: a very common theme with Evangelion, like this idea, Yes,
Speaker 5: you're trapped in your psychology. I know you like that
Speaker 5: psychoanalytic lens, and I find it really interesting.
Speaker 6: I just am not strong in it.
Speaker 5: But for me, I think it's it's like about uh,
Speaker 5: it's telling you, like the world is what you sort
Speaker 5: of imagine it to be in some ways, and that's
Speaker 5: sort of what the down of all of the characters is.
Speaker 5: They can't get they're so stuck in their own heads
Speaker 5: all the time. They can never really break free even
Speaker 5: though they live in this fantastical and magical world.
Speaker 3: Yeah the uh, right, And so a lot of the
Speaker 3: show is you know, it's.
Speaker 1: Uh I talk about uh, what was it?
Speaker 3: It's the kind of boilerplate Kaiju battles, right, and so yeah,
Speaker 3: they're fighting the aliens, and that's you know, that's cool.
Speaker 3: There's all this action, but then there's the kind of
Speaker 3: the interpersonal. A lot of these episodes just go off
Speaker 3: on these like side tangents of like people struggling with
Speaker 3: their own their own bullshit, or they're actually traumatized. Right,
Speaker 3: the world is kind of ending, and a lot of
Speaker 3: the times you know, the kids are like and I
Speaker 3: don't know if I can do this.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to protect.
Speaker 3: Humanity against these angels, these aliens, Like what's going to happen?
Speaker 3: And uh, Right, the civilization is being run by a
Speaker 3: smart grit at this point, and so all the technology
Speaker 3: has been converging into the human instrumentality project.
Speaker 1: Right, how can we.
Speaker 3: Leverage the potential of the human being to not only
Speaker 3: you know, basically uh, subdue.
Speaker 1: The powers of God? Right?
Speaker 3: Like the how can we overcome God and sort of
Speaker 3: take our place or become one with it through the
Speaker 3: Tree of Knowledge?
Speaker 1: Right, It's it's.
Speaker 3: Almost that, you know, the fall from grace be taking
Speaker 3: to its own conclusion. Right, I'm we're now going to
Speaker 3: through the Tower of Battle, go back to heaven.
Speaker 1: And right, you can see this in.
Speaker 3: The Nerve headquarters, right, Like they're literally a sunken or
Speaker 3: is it they're a pyramid and like an obelisk underground, right,
Speaker 3: and there's this like representation of above and the below,
Speaker 3: the dual pyramids. They're underground. They talk about the end
Speaker 3: of the world. Right, that is like a total like
Speaker 3: rebirth death and rebirth right magical system and right through
Speaker 3: the whole show sale starts coming in. So they're like
Speaker 3: the but I would refer to like the Cosmopolity. They're
Speaker 3: almost like this ancient power structure that.
Speaker 1: Rules the world.
Speaker 3: We're behind the un behind all the banks, and they're
Speaker 3: trying to become one with God and by killing all
Speaker 3: the angels, right, kind of this very transgressive maneuver. They're
Speaker 3: going to use the technology, they're going to exploit everyone,
Speaker 3: and and like that's what the show is. So all
Speaker 3: these people are kind of working through their stuff fighting
Speaker 3: these angels, and you know, things start getting pretty hairy,
Speaker 3: and they find out that you know, oh yeah, we're
Speaker 3: basically space aliens, and so I don't know, like, you know,
Speaker 3: if that's going to be used at some point, you know,
Speaker 3: in the future like oh we are aliens or yeah.
Speaker 1: I just don't know where it goes. So it's it's
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. I don't know if you get any other
Speaker 1: questions or comments before I keep going.
Speaker 2: No, you can go ahead.
Speaker 4: I was gonna ask because you want to show me
Speaker 4: like where you are on your posts.
Speaker 7: I was going to try to oh sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: I've kind of just been floating around. But at this point,
Speaker 3: you know, we went through the three kids and get
Speaker 3: I know, Acari just because there's so many characters and
Speaker 3: you could go down the line, but I think where
Speaker 3: I would be at this point is the one about
Speaker 3: Slee and seated above the United Nations. And then there's
Speaker 3: a revolutionary girl Utana link of which I would also
Speaker 3: recommend people check out. Like that's an absolutely insane show.
Speaker 6: Very Age of Aquarius.
Speaker 3: In fact, yeah, I mean I happen to just go
Speaker 3: as an aside, I you know, went on YouTube to
Speaker 3: listen to those songs again when they're dueling and they're
Speaker 3: like I used you guys should check it out after
Speaker 3: we're done talking because you can find the translations in
Speaker 3: English and it's crazy shit. So yeah, I'm at the
Speaker 3: Selee and there's all those like almost tombstones where they're
Speaker 3: having the meeting, and there's that like red light and
Speaker 3: they're all illuminated with the numbers.
Speaker 1: You gotta see that one.
Speaker 7: Maybe it went too far, It might be halfway or
Speaker 7: see go back up?
Speaker 1: Oh wait, yeah, right there a little more.
Speaker 2: A little more upward, which way go.
Speaker 1: Down a little bit.
Speaker 6: One more?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you see where the oraporos and the tectratus. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: so right, and again Selee writes German for soul, there's
Speaker 3: the seven eyes, seven powers. It's a chromatic image and
Speaker 3: it's coming down. So it's like this inverted pyramid again,
Speaker 3: kind of like the the elohem coming back down to
Speaker 3: then grab the golum and then bring it like back
Speaker 3: to the heavens. This is like very large structural force, right,
Speaker 3: Obviously the pyramid is very important, and we go to
Speaker 3: human instrumentality. Is comes from a sci fi author, Hordwainer
Speaker 3: Smith and right again he's he's a spook basically US
Speaker 3: Army officer East Asia scholar psychological Warfare JOHNS. Hopkins, right, Like,
Speaker 3: so they're using they're using a term from some spooks
Speaker 3: sci fi novels that came out what fifty sixty years ago, right,
Speaker 3: And all of these are representative of, you know.
Speaker 1: Human instrumentality.
Speaker 3: Mankind, you will never be the same, you know, in
Speaker 3: the world of men who are machines that weep the
Speaker 3: rediscovery of man. So right, and then there's this he's
Speaker 3: got this other one those Luciferian scarlet woman. Right, I
Speaker 3: mean it's like it's crazy, right, So they're using all
Speaker 3: these terms that are representative of larger economic and metaphysical changes,
Speaker 3: and the whole show is like that. It's almost like
Speaker 3: we're all we're seeing what the big plan is, you know,
Speaker 3: or at least that's what they have to do, right,
Speaker 3: we have to get off the planet.
Speaker 1: Otherwise destroy ourselves. At least that's what I would think
Speaker 1: is in their mind or would be suggestive of the show.
Speaker 3: And it turns out, right, you see again Lilith is
Speaker 3: crucified to the cross at the bottom of the the
Speaker 3: bottom of the Nerve center, you know, the aliens get
Speaker 3: out of control. And it turns out though that Selee
Speaker 3: betrays Nerve and they're like, no, We're going to become
Speaker 3: one with God and they activate, you know, like once
Speaker 3: they've killed the angels, they activate human instrumentality and right,
Speaker 3: they want to become one with the divine And so
Speaker 3: in the show, the last two episodes are like Shiny
Speaker 3: finally coming to terms with you know, wow, I am
Speaker 3: the biggest obstacle in my whole life, Like I really
Speaker 3: did push people away. We know, what can I do
Speaker 3: to integrate those people? How can I you know, grow
Speaker 3: as a person. And so Hideakaiana got a ton of
Speaker 3: crap for it because people were like, bro like I
Speaker 3: want to see angels fight. I want like a climactic
Speaker 3: resolution goal show. And so he was getting like a
Speaker 3: bunch of hate mail and like death threats, and so
Speaker 3: finally they released the end of Evangelian, which is like
Speaker 3: the really famous sequence, but that was like a separate film,
Speaker 3: like I don't know, like two years later. And so
Speaker 3: this all then ties into right the Breath of Fire three,
Speaker 3: where I talk about this is the construction of the
Speaker 3: Third Temple, and I go into that's about cybernetics and
Speaker 3: quantum met well not quantum but met changing metaphysics, new technologies,
Speaker 3: and that how the military and universities have been collaborating
Speaker 3: for decades to accelerate write something. And you know, it's
Speaker 3: like we get along for the ride, otherwise it's going
Speaker 3: to get really weird here.
Speaker 1: And I think we're living there right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did want no, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 5: I Mark wanting to ask if you could expand on
Speaker 5: the stuff you talked about the Essolin Institute and like
Speaker 5: the Human Potentiality movement, because I think this, as you
Speaker 5: mentioned in the thread, has a lot to do with
Speaker 5: the series as a whole, but also with maybe transhumanism
Speaker 5: in the future.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so you know, Esslin's out by Big sur
Speaker 3: They have a lot of connections to like SRI so
Speaker 3: the Stanford Research Institute, which is obviously really huge for right,
Speaker 3: Silicon Valley has been one of the main funders of
Speaker 3: technology in general. And if you kind of explore this,
Speaker 3: and some of my other thread threads allude to it.
Speaker 1: But a lot of the stuff with.
Speaker 3: Like the Hippies and the New Age movement, the Age
Speaker 3: of Aquarius tied directly back into like theosophy global global federalism.
Speaker 1: And what's his name?
Speaker 3: Like a not her name, h P. Blavatsky, but then
Speaker 3: what's his name? The Indian dude that they wanted to
Speaker 3: be like the Second Coming. I'm drawing a blank on
Speaker 3: his name, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Christian Murty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so all of this is like and if you guys, actually,
Speaker 3: did you see The Three Body Problem at all on Netflix?
Speaker 2: No, I've heard about it, but I've not seen it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's the first few
Speaker 3: episodes are really good, but like there's literally a scene
Speaker 3: in the show where they're like in the the meditation
Speaker 3: room of the.
Speaker 1: Un which was donated.
Speaker 3: By like the Loosest Trust, which was like an Alice
Speaker 3: Bailey adjacent project. So like the in and of itself
Speaker 3: is like wildly connected to like all these weird theosophical,
Speaker 3: New Age occult movements. And so then after World War Two, right,
Speaker 3: you have even the Beatniks and the Beatles and the
Speaker 3: Grateful Dead, like very right, that's a whole other thread
Speaker 3: of like how music and culture have been used to
Speaker 3: engineer social change. And right, Esslayn, they had a bunch
Speaker 3: of guys, you know, teaching about psychedelics and and gystal
Speaker 3: psychology and cognitive behavioral therapy and all these things we
Speaker 3: hear about like the Overton Window or you know, what's
Speaker 3: what's his name, the Zimbardo Project, the Lucifer experiments, right,
Speaker 3: like there is a body of knowledge that is actually
Speaker 3: commensurate or tracks with magical applications, but it's it's now
Speaker 3: from a psychological, scientific, technocratic system.
Speaker 1: And right, all of these things continue to compound.
Speaker 3: But now we have technology and cybernetic applications who really
Speaker 3: control the environment of the human in a way that
Speaker 3: the human being human being becomes like a gpu of reality.
Speaker 3: And so we're general like we're being hijacked to create
Speaker 3: that future. And so a lot of this show ties
Speaker 3: into all of those bigger themes, and I mean it's
Speaker 3: just so much information. You know, I'm probably not doing
Speaker 3: enough justice to it, but you know you almost have
Speaker 3: to like just read the threads or you know, like
Speaker 3: pull those individually and then back to Nean genesis.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think that that is what the strength of the
Speaker 5: written threads is, Mark, is that you have a meta
Speaker 5: narrative to the threads, like they all interconnect and interweave,
Speaker 5: and the stories about how one series will depict like
Speaker 5: one side of metaphysics and while the other one maybe
Speaker 5: will preference a different side of the greater narrative you're
Speaker 5: you're weaving. I think it's interesting though, to look at
Speaker 5: the inter relationship and like the commonality and using a
Speaker 5: genre property like anime, there's a lot more than you
Speaker 5: can do with it because of its it's animated, like
Speaker 5: you can do it colors and you can do I
Speaker 5: think the music is very understudied in the sense that
Speaker 5: like Nick and I have done a magic behind the
Speaker 5: MIC series, so shout out to that obviously, but you know,
Speaker 5: the Japanese music, especially of the time, and like how
Speaker 5: it kind of interweaves subculturally, like breakcres. Very Japanese vapor
Speaker 5: wave has like a very Japanese sort of city pop aesthetic,
Speaker 5: Like a lot of this, like eighties Japanese music came
Speaker 5: really popular.
Speaker 6: It was like a hipster trend for like a few years.
Speaker 5: So you're seeing like this always is undercurrent that it exists,
Speaker 5: but you don't really hear very many people like discuss
Speaker 5: what it is, the translations, what they're talking about, and
Speaker 5: sort of the properties that it goes with, because there's
Speaker 5: a lot of this music goes along with anime.
Speaker 6: So it's like the.
Speaker 5: Sound literal soundtrack to this kind of visual magical journey
Speaker 5: that you watch. But then you're also like hearing almost
Speaker 5: different media property. But it's like you're it's like the
Speaker 5: association is like one to one. You're saying it's the
Speaker 5: same thing, but it's not quite the same thing. One
Speaker 5: is visual and one is audio.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's a holistic, right, It's you're being in
Speaker 3: bed embedded whole thing. So I kind of talk about
Speaker 3: McClue in a little bit in the First Breath of
Speaker 3: Fire and how he was really big on in media
Speaker 3: study and so I you know, I would he's encourage
Speaker 3: people to check that out too, is like read some
Speaker 3: McClue in.
Speaker 1: He talks about you know, the medium is.
Speaker 3: The message, and I think that's really important to uh
Speaker 3: to deal with because, right, these are applications of magical
Speaker 3: forms of coercion through media. You're thing being initiated, you're
Speaker 3: being inundated, you're being spun around, and right, how do
Speaker 3: we how do we learn to swim through that environment?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: And that's mostly what my big project is. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's.
Speaker 3: A lot of material and and you almost have to
Speaker 3: do it on your own or read it, you know, read.
Speaker 1: These threads on your own.
Speaker 3: Otherwise you know, we could just kind of topically cover
Speaker 3: it without maybe not necessarily getting to the meat of
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you I will include the link for this
Speaker 4: this threat as well for people to look at if
Speaker 4: they want to. Was there anything else that you wanted
Speaker 4: to add to you know that I guess that show.
Speaker 4: I didn't know, like if you were kind of dumb
Speaker 4: with that or.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean you know at the end, they have the
Speaker 3: again the whole tree of life, but it's actually inverted.
Speaker 1: The whole thing is just a just a giant ritual.
Speaker 3: But now it's you know, otherwise I just kind of
Speaker 3: get in the weeds of like what all the individual
Speaker 3: symbology is. But my biggest, my biggest thing is like
Speaker 3: just pay attention to like what's being put out there.
Speaker 3: And it's definitely competent portrayals of magic, but it's just
Speaker 3: woven in a in a cult way and it's right
Speaker 3: in your face.
Speaker 2: And in your opinion.
Speaker 4: You're also saying you thought there was a lot of
Speaker 4: cabbalistic ideas in there, right, or like you could see
Speaker 4: the spheares being like played out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's it's literally there's a I've got
Speaker 3: a gift of it down there, like towards the end
Speaker 3: when they're you know, when instrumentality is being initiated, like
Speaker 3: there's a full blown tree of life like in the
Speaker 3: sky and right, it's always referencing like the Dead Sea
Speaker 3: Scrolls as like written by the aliens, and so like
Speaker 3: Nerve and Sail are like we've you know, we've consulted
Speaker 3: the Dead Sea squirrels and you're telling us more secrets
Speaker 3: and uh, and so like that's a that's an extra biblical,
Speaker 3: non canonical, right, hidden script that talks about a.
Speaker 1: Ton of capitalism and the cult stuff.
Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, they all just blend together at
Speaker 3: this point, like you it's all out there and it's
Speaker 3: you know, it's pretty nuts.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Was there anything you wanted to add.
Speaker 6: Just for this series? I think Mark did a great job.
Speaker 5: But I will say that the three kids, there are
Speaker 5: three separate stars of serious, So they're serious.
Speaker 2: A, B and C.
Speaker 5: And so you could say that the these three kids
Speaker 5: are like what Mark said, it's kind of like they're
Speaker 5: all the Aon's of Horus in a way. They're just distinct,
Speaker 5: maybe in their the vessel that they sort of think
Speaker 5: they are, but they're not really. They're all empty in
Speaker 5: their own way. So it's like the hero, the princess,
Speaker 5: and the dragon, and.
Speaker 6: So it's interesting.
Speaker 5: It's just it is interesting because the series is so
Speaker 5: deeply cubalistic, and it plays out many like multiple hero's journeys,
Speaker 5: not just it's not just like the normative like singular hero,
Speaker 5: the you know, the kind of good guy, every man hero.
Speaker 5: It's kind of like there's anti heroes and some of
Speaker 5: them are girls.
Speaker 6: It's it.
Speaker 5: It it allows the story to be like weird and malleable,
Speaker 5: but it takes you I guess what I'm trying to.
Speaker 6: Say is that it is it's like a magic journey.
Speaker 5: It's like taking you through the different ways that you
Speaker 5: yourself project into a character, because you're not every character,
Speaker 5: Like I don't watch a show and say, okay, I'm
Speaker 5: every character. No, but there's there's a character that you're
Speaker 5: going to identify with in that character undergoes a magic journey.
Speaker 5: So I think that's the three characters in particular. So
Speaker 5: I think that's really interesting about this series in particular,
Speaker 5: and how they did release these two sort of follow
Speaker 5: up sequel films and it is kind of like they
Speaker 5: you have to watch the series multiple times and then
Speaker 5: maybe you could say you're like an adept or, like
Speaker 5: maybe an acolyte of the series and like understanding how
Speaker 5: they are relating the sephera and they are relating the
Speaker 5: metaphysical concepts.
Speaker 6: But then the movies do it so it's much more subtle.
Speaker 5: So you've like kind of built up an audience to
Speaker 5: the point where they're allowed to understand what the movie
Speaker 5: is really saying. Like you're able to sort of like
Speaker 5: remove the densities, remove the klipas of it, and then
Speaker 5: you can be like oh, I see what I see
Speaker 5: what the truth is if you want to even say that. So, yeah,
Speaker 5: there's something really crazy about this series, really dark and
Speaker 5: really interesting.
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, when he mentioned the upside down tree, I
Speaker 4: wonder if, like when when you noticed the like kind
Speaker 4: of like the Kabbala play out in this series, did
Speaker 4: you have any notice like maybe a pattern or anything going.
Speaker 1: To like exact specific correspondences.
Speaker 4: Either that or like I was wondering if maybe it
Speaker 4: was manifesting down to the bottom. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: if you saw like a like a line kind of
Speaker 4: coming straight down.
Speaker 5: Or oh yeah, definitely the angels, because the angels are
Speaker 5: like the fallen they're like the spheres that have fallen
Speaker 5: onto the grounds. You could think of it like that,
Speaker 5: Like they are like the Nepha, like I know, people
Speaker 5: don't I don't really like this word, but they're kind
Speaker 5: of like Nephilin.
Speaker 1: In a way or like that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, they're sort of clipolithic, but they're also of God.
Speaker 5: And so when they're defeated by the kids, like the
Speaker 5: three heroes at Hoad, but because they all are different
Speaker 5: kinds of heroes, they go in different directions on the paths.
Speaker 5: That's how you could understand it. It's like they're taking
Speaker 5: full expression into the tree. So they're climbing back up
Speaker 5: in the sense that trying to rectify the world, but
Speaker 5: the angels are trying to well. One way to understand
Speaker 5: them is that they're just strawing at so theres the
Speaker 5: world through destruction.
Speaker 4: Interesting is again it depends on how you want to
Speaker 4: look at the tree coming down. Coming down. I mean,
Speaker 4: obviously you have to become an angel before you come
Speaker 4: into matter, So I mean, are you're not. I mean,
Speaker 4: I guess what you're saying is you kind of going
Speaker 4: the wrong way even though you are an angel at
Speaker 4: that point, you're kind of falling down into matter and
Speaker 4: then going back up. I could see how you'd be
Speaker 4: passing that yourself in that way. It sounds weird, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I almost say it's like the clip of Right,
Speaker 3: It's like they've inverted the tree of Knowledge so far
Speaker 3: that like now they're gonna it's almost like they're falling
Speaker 3: back up to Heaven. Right, It's it's a trip. And
Speaker 3: so both of these are like merged simultaneously. And I
Speaker 3: don't think there is necessarily a specific narrative like oh,
Speaker 3: it's going to be this one single thing. Right, there
Speaker 3: is a lot of deliberate ambiguity. It's almost like watching
Speaker 3: Kubrick or again, you know Twin Peaks. You're this is
Speaker 3: all presented there in this general way, and it's not
Speaker 3: like this is exactly what it is. I don't think
Speaker 3: that's how it's meant to be presented. But these themes
Speaker 3: are there, and I think it's something that you would
Speaker 3: play with in any magic practice or like just in
Speaker 3: any analysis in general.
Speaker 5: So yeah, you could change paradigms depending on like even
Speaker 5: your own understanding of the series. The more the better
Speaker 5: you want, or the more ocall to your understanding the
Speaker 5: like maybe your relationship with how the narrative flows is different.
Speaker 5: So yeah, there's definitely a context dependent.
Speaker 2: That's the truth. All right.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess there's nothing else that you guys want
Speaker 4: to add. I mean, unfortunately I haven't seen the series,
Speaker 4: so there's really not much I could add to it myself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just encourage you to watch the show
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, kind of pull the other threads
Speaker 3: because I think it would help contextualize a lot of
Speaker 3: the other material that I'm talking about, because it is
Speaker 3: just pretty broad. But you know, if you are interested,
Speaker 3: you going to read about mk ultrip stargate, you know,
Speaker 3: human potential movements and the history of Japan, and that's
Speaker 3: maybe a start.
Speaker 4: You think the human potential movement, you know that stuff
Speaker 4: is like huge, actually like actually being done, and it's
Speaker 4: kind of being.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, I think it's just a way of like,
Speaker 3: you know, it's now just advertising, right, It's again, it's
Speaker 3: just become so mainstream that it's it's lost the cachet. Oh,
Speaker 3: it's the human potential. It's like, now, how can I
Speaker 3: get more clicks? How can I create a spectacle that's
Speaker 3: going to drive more revenue to my website?
Speaker 1: How am I going to get more engagement? Right?
Speaker 3: And it's like how do we just nudge people and
Speaker 3: affect their attitudes? Right? And so it doesn't have to
Speaker 3: be sinister necessarily, and it doesn't even have to be coordinated.
Speaker 3: But I do think there are larger trends and and
Speaker 3: uh interests that are moving collectively and maybe even unintentionally.
Speaker 3: But these are things are changing us and we're living
Speaker 3: in that world right now. And by studying these things
Speaker 3: and learning about like the history of media and technology
Speaker 3: and of like old biblical references. We can sort ourselves
Speaker 3: and orient ourselves in a way to maybe not lose
Speaker 3: our minds.
Speaker 2: That's a plus, not lose on minds.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, if you want, you have you guys played
Speaker 4: your shows again, and I think we'll wrap it up here.
Speaker 4: I would be really interested in having a talk with
Speaker 4: you on Twin Peaks, since that's something I have watched.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we could go really deep on it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think all of the Lynch's movies tied directly into
Speaker 3: Twin Peaks. I think it's almost like one dream. Uh
Speaker 3: but yeah, that's that's a really long discussion, and i'd
Speaker 3: probably have to watch the show again just to brush up,
Speaker 3: because these things are so ambiguous and can go in
Speaker 3: so many different directions, and so it's not necessarily again,
Speaker 3: it's like, you know mccluan's thing. You know, it's not
Speaker 3: about the content, it's about the context and the medium
Speaker 3: itself and what is it doing to us.
Speaker 4: You can watch that show again and be like, oh
Speaker 4: my god, I have a completely different take on that's
Speaker 4: a problem with that show too. Every time you watch it,
Speaker 4: there's something new and you're like, oh man, it just
Speaker 4: has we will confuse.
Speaker 3: Then well shit, it's you know, it's like the Shining.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like people were you know, they made
Speaker 3: a documentary about the Shining like it was a room
Speaker 3: two thirty seven, Like what does it mean?
Speaker 1: It's like a Jack's time.
Speaker 4: I'm actually happy somebody on tomorrow for that documentary. Oh
Speaker 4: great Shining, Yeah rightily, I mean JJ advance often check
Speaker 4: it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: Uh so, all right, I'll let you guys plug your stuff.
Speaker 4: I'll go with Jin first. Jin, thank you so much
Speaker 4: for coming on.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you bringing the guests of the show to
Speaker 2: the suggestion.
Speaker 6: No thanks Nick, of course, of course.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And let everybody know, like you know, where they
Speaker 4: can find you to on Twitter and your podcast and
Speaker 4: sure please.
Speaker 5: Sure so people can find me at wucom Reborn to
Speaker 5: w uk O and g Reborn on Twitter and Instagram,
Speaker 5: at Threshold Saints and then Threshold Saints on Apple on Spotify.
Speaker 5: There's also a show account at Threshold Saints on x
Speaker 5: Twitter and obviously Mark Spennagast talked about very I would
Speaker 5: say parallel. This is like more of a continuation of
Speaker 5: our discussion of my breadth of Fire. I think it's
Speaker 5: really like a part too spiritual part two, but with
Speaker 5: with you Nick, so it's like it's a true reject episode.
Speaker 5: So I appreciate that you set it up and let
Speaker 5: me kind of, you know, frame the parameters of it.
Speaker 5: And thank you, Mark. I really appreciate it. It's always
Speaker 5: a pleasure to talk to you and consider you like
Speaker 5: a sort of like.
Speaker 6: Mad scientist media scholar.
Speaker 5: I love it. I get a lot out of it.
Speaker 5: I see where you're going with it, and I'm down.
Speaker 5: So thank you, And.
Speaker 4: All egend stuff will be in the bottom. And Mark,
Speaker 4: let everybody know where they can find you as well.
Speaker 4: Please anything you want to plun or the shows.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, the uh, you know, it's mostly the threads.
Speaker 3: You know, if somebody thought any of this was interesting,
Speaker 3: you can find me at Somolier s O Underscore, M
Speaker 3: M E L Underscore, I E R and uh. You
Speaker 3: know if you I have my most recent one on
Speaker 3: qrscuro and Gill Delouze uh and Henri Bergson, right, you
Speaker 3: can literally apply that whole thread to what we've been
Speaker 3: talking about. Yeah, hopefully you know some of this stuff
Speaker 3: is maybe not I didn't get too abstract or maybe
Speaker 3: two off the beaten path given it's more of a
Speaker 3: cult focused show. But for me, these things I'll do
Speaker 3: tie together and I use a lot of my stuff
Speaker 3: that I learned studying, like Kabbala and magic literally just
Speaker 3: runs right into how I.
Speaker 1: Engage with what's going on with the world. So appreciate
Speaker 1: you guys have me on. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: Hell yeah, yeah, you know, that was a good discussion.
Speaker 4: And no, I do agree that I do think like
Speaker 4: magic or occultism, or maybe people not understanding occultism, it's
Speaker 4: being used to accomplish other things right in our faces,
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. So I can understand, like
Speaker 4: how you would go with the whole psychology and how
Speaker 4: people are being manipulated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly what I think they're doing it for.
Speaker 3: You know so well, And I would point to the
Speaker 3: Breath of Fire three because I definitively link cybernetics and
Speaker 3: all these military scientists to occultism.
Speaker 2: Yes, huge, So you have to think about it.
Speaker 4: Probably some of the you know, back in the day
Speaker 4: cultists were considered scientists and alchemists.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, exactly. Nothing much has changed, so it's all chemical.
Speaker 1: Nothing has changed.
Speaker 4: They just have different cover stories. For what they're working
Speaker 4: on and why Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well and everyone's just you know, clicking on their
Speaker 3: phones and you know, watching some singer and you know,
Speaker 3: trying to have fun pay attention to the stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they don't.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: The thing is, it's just like even some of like
Speaker 4: understanding this, you'd have to look back, you know, thirty forty,
Speaker 4: fifty sixty years ago to even start like seeing this,
Speaker 4: I mean, or even alchemists or you know, cultists were
Speaker 4: considered scientists. You'd have to know about them like a
Speaker 4: thousand years ago. Unfortunately, that's just not the cool thing
Speaker 4: to be doing right now. So why would you ever
Speaker 4: start reading about stuff like yeah, well, you have to
Speaker 4: get it to an extent. Yeah, yeah, right, I mean
Speaker 4: I do get it to an extent. I mean, but yeah,
Speaker 4: I get where you were going with that for sure,
Speaker 4: and I appreciate that angle. Yeah, everybody's links will be
Speaker 4: in the bottom. Jin the Ninja and mark his links
Speaker 4: that everything will be in the bottom if you want
Speaker 4: to check it out. Thank you again for both coming on.
Speaker 4: And that is the end of another Occult Rejects and
Speaker 4: until the next one, everybody be well Later.