WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:04.360 It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy 2 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:06.839 Boston's News Radio. 3 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:10.240 All right, thanks very much, Dan Watkins. As we move 4 00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:12.880 into the ten o'clock hour, we have a guest who 5 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:15.640 have I talked with before and I'm really looking forward 6 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:19.559 to talking with him again. My guest tonight is lou 7 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:23.160 Ferrante Lewis. Welcome back to Night's Side. How are you hi? 8 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:25.000 I'm bored. Good Dan, I hope you're will too and 9 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:26.559 happy new yet are you? And your listeners? 10 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:29.039 Right back at you, my friend. Now, you have written, 11 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:32.719 First of all, you've written a trilogy of books, or 12 00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:36.320 you're writing a trilogy of books. And this book that 13 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:40.439 we're going to talk about tonight is the second part 14 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:46.280 of the trilogy. Correct, that's correct, okay. And it is 15 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:50.679 about the time frame of nineteen sixty to nineteen eighty five. 16 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:56.640 That's also right, Yeah, about nineteen eighty I cut it 17 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:59.240 at and it'll pick up nineteen eighty for the third 18 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:01.799 volume to eighty about twenty ath period. 19 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:08.359 Okay, sixty to eighty. Okay. Now, let's re establish you 20 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:14.040 and your your position and your expertise and your inside knowledge. 21 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:17.239 You remember you remember the Gambino crime family. 22 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:22.000 Yeah, I was. I was actually an associate who was 23 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:24.319 about to become an initiated member when I went to 24 00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:25.879 prison and faced life in prison. 25 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:29.239 Yeah, okay, So so you did not go through the ceremony, 26 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:31.400 but you were on the cusp of it. And I 27 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:35.760 think that you told me that you got arrested. If 28 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:39.400 I recall in San Francisco, you had you had a 29 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:44.760 a an activity in San Francisco that that got interrupted 30 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:45.560 by the authorities. 31 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:48.760 Yeah, well, that was one of the counts on the indictment. 32 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:50.719 It was it was a Hobbs Act, which is like 33 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:51.719 a WEEKO indictment. 34 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:54.719 You're very familiar with the Hobbs Act. 35 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:55.719 Absolutely. 36 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.879 There's a lot of politicians who get hooked at the 37 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:02.200 Hobbs Act, and a lot of cops would get hooked 38 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:05.439 on the Hobbs Act because they're right, they're functioning under 39 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.680 the color of the badge or the color of their title. 40 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:11.599 How did you get hooked on the Hobbs Act? How 41 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:13.400 did that? How did that work in your case? 42 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:13.680 Yeah? 43 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.199 I guess it was probably based on interstate commerce and 44 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:19.479 it was a racketeering conspiracy because there was a number 45 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:24.120 of four defendants on the indictment with me, it was 46 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:26.400 a Rico case. And and one of the overt acts 47 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.080 in the Rico case was we we flew out the 48 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:31.439 samp We did a lot of heights and hijackings at 49 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:33.759 the time, and at one point we flew out to 50 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:36.960 San Francisco. We had a tip on a Loomis armored 51 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:40.639 car and uh, you know, we shipped our guns and 52 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.879 and uh all the accouterments I should say for the 53 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:46.319 best way to say it, for for an armored paw 54 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.120 heist in Uh, back then, we shipped it just ups. 55 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:52.479 It was the pre nine to eleven days. We just 56 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:54.439 put it in the box, shipped the ups to where 57 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:57.759 we were going, and then flew down there under bogey names. 58 00:02:58.439 --> 00:02:58.520 Uh. 59 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:00.879 When we got down there the day before we were 60 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:03.680 going to hit the armored car, the fed swarm the 61 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:06.159 hotel where we were staying and brought us in. So 62 00:03:06.199 --> 00:03:09.000 that was the conspiracy to knock off that armored car 63 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:11.319 was one of the over at acts in the indictment. 64 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:13.719 But there were a number of pisces and hijackings other ones. 65 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:18.759 The people, the people who whacked Roger Wheeler out of Boston, 66 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:22.680 they did the same thing. They shipped everything down. Yeah, 67 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:27.680 pulled over in Tennessee or somewhere by by the local 68 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:32.039 police and have us right some munitions or weapons in 69 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:36.800 your vehicle. So did you know when when that happened, 70 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:39.319 that your life had changed dramatically. 71 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:44.080 No, I was still mobbed up in my mind. So 72 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.319 I'm you know, I said, I'm never gonna rat. However 73 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:49.319 long I have to do, I'll do. I faced the 74 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:51.840 rest of my life in prison. I was eventually indicted 75 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:55.080 three different times, once by the FBI, another time by 76 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:58.280 the Secret Service, and another time by the Nassau County 77 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:01.840 Organized Crime Task Force, which New York sort of like 78 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:06.240 state slash mob a slate state slash federal task force 79 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:10.800 looking into mob activities. So we were indicted, me and 80 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:12.479 my co defend into a number of times. 81 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.159 Me to double jeopard kind of gets a pass when 82 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:17.920 we're talking about going after the mob. By the way, you. 83 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:21.800 Know it, Yes, the hotel double jeopardy argument's ridiculous, I 84 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:24.000 asked the judge. I said, I was in state court 85 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:26.759 once and I says, I'm charged with this very crime 86 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.240 in my federal indictment. And he said, who cares? He 87 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:34.720 doesn't care. They don't they and the judge, Yeah, yeah, 88 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.279 even the whole I have to tell you, and I'm 89 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:41.079 a law abiding citizen. Now I'm pro law enforcement. The 90 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:43.319 guys go out there, they work hard, most of them. 91 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:45.160 There's a couple of dirty cops out there, but for 92 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:48.000 the most part, ninety nine point nine percent of the 93 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:50.920 people out there, men and women, are doing their best 94 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:53.120 to do as good as they possibly can. So I 95 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:55.040 want to make that clear to your listeners. But having 96 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:59.480 said that, yeah, having said that, though the Rico law 97 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:01.399 is the spin pable where you could be tried for 98 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:04.399 something in the state, beat it, and then they could 99 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:06.439 just bring it in on a larger indictment in the Feds, 100 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:08.439 and we try you again. And it's happened to a 101 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:10.120 number of friends of mine who will never get out 102 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:13.000 of jail. And that's they did away with double jeopardy. 103 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:15.920 And part of the part of volume two in my 104 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:20.000 book is I talk extensively about Bobby Kennedy and the 105 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:25.680 Kennedy administration and Bobby's uh, Bobby's time as as Attorney General. 106 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:28.319 And I mean he did away with the Fifth Amendment 107 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:31.519 by creating uh, uh you know where where if you 108 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.240 take the fifth you could be given immunity and then 109 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:36.759 you have to testify or you say eighteen months for 110 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.079 a contempt charge. Bobby is the one who legislatively passed 111 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:43.079 that and got that pushed through Congress. And uh. And 112 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:45.839 because he was fed up with people during the Rackets Committee, 113 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:49.240 the McClellan's known as the Rackets Committee, the McClellan committee 114 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.879 before before he was ag he was fed up with 115 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:54.560 people taking the fifth and he says, I don't I 116 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:56.279 don't believe in it anymore. I don't want to see 117 00:05:56.319 --> 00:05:59.000 that happen. They're guilty of something. So he really did 118 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:03.519 away with a lot of our I think our you know, 119 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:05.839 safeguards what you call. 120 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:07.879 Bedrock and constitutional provisions. 121 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.279 That's right, that's right, and a lot of times sixth 122 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.439 Amendment right to council. When he was chasing Jimmy Haffer 123 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:17.319 and I go through this extensively once again in Borgoda 124 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:19.920 Class of Titans, which is volume two of the book 125 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:23.639 the trilogy. When he was chasing half a he went 126 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.519 after half as lawyers, and which is you know, going 127 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:30.560 after He's he's going after a sixth Amendment right to counsel. 128 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:33.279 And he said, anybody who defends him or his teamsters 129 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:36.439 is a who And I don't care they they shouldn't 130 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:38.519 be defending him, and he would try to lock up 131 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:41.040 the attorneys. So you know, it was a lot of 132 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:44.839 from I mean the Kennedy's. Who knows about the Kennedy's 133 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:47.319 more than you and your listeners. They're from up there. 134 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.199 But but you know what I mean. Look, this is 135 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:51.800 I go deep into it in the book, and I 136 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:54.959 feel it was. It was a big cause of the 137 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:58.120 assassination and I get I put all them moving pieces 138 00:06:58.160 --> 00:06:59.720 together and moving parts. 139 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.279 That's what we want to talk about in part tonight. 140 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:05.160 Low And Uh, I think you've You've set the table 141 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:06.120 very nicely here. 142 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:06.759 Uh. 143 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:09.480 Loufer Ante is my guest. He's been on the program before. 144 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:12.240 He's written a trilogy of books. Uh, well, he's in 145 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.360 the process of writing a trilogy of books. We talked 146 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:19.079 about the first book, and now we're going to talk 147 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:22.319 about his second volume, which is The American Mafia Versus 148 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:26.079 America's Political Elite and this Uh, you know, I haven't 149 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:30.560 read this second book, but I know of what you speak. 150 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:33.720 It's funny. There's the Rico statute. I chased a an 151 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:37.519 FBI agent up here for many many years. H Paul Rico. 152 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:40.000 His last name was r I c O. He was 153 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.160 not Italian, by the way, he was a Spaniard. Uh. 154 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.519 And he was probably one of the most corrupt FBI 155 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:50.279 agents in the in the long historied history of corrupt 156 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:55.000 FBI agents. Uh here here in Boston. And I used 157 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:58.639 to chase him with cameras in Washington and uh and 158 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:02.199 in Boston. Uh uh And this this is a guy 159 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:03.920 he set up them. He was the guy that set 160 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.680 up the murder of Roger Wheeler, the country club down 161 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:13.560 in Tulsa, Oklahoma, who owned World High Lie in Miami. 162 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:17.839 And Wheeler was the guy who basically got the boys 163 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:20.240 from Boston to go down a guy named Joe McDonald 164 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.399 and the second guy, uh named Maderano to go down 165 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:31.360 and uh and basically put that yeah, other pathway to heaven. 166 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.000 I mean, you know, it's an unbelievable story. And and 167 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:39.440 Rico eventually there was a heroic police officer out of Tulsa, 168 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.559 guy named Mike Huff cost him his marriage. I mean, 169 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:45.919 but he was the guy who the Florida State Police 170 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.440 gave him the honor of actually putting his cuffs on 171 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:54.039 Rico when he was arrested. Uh. And the night the 172 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.919 day that of the morning he was arrested. His wife 173 00:08:56.960 --> 00:08:59.320 is there and she says, Paul, why don't you put 174 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:03.360 your world high highlight jacket on UH and what you 175 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:07.360 want to dinner? Well, well, never never got home for 176 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.120 dinner and no, yeah wow jacket. 177 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:13.799 So yeah, Dan, are you are you familiar with the UH, 178 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:18.480 the the Linley DeVecchio Gregory Scalfa case from New York, 179 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:21.879 because it's as close as that, and you also had 180 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:25.039 obviously Whitey Bull Drup there, but it's as close to that. Yeah, 181 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.840 that situation is as you can imagine. 182 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:32.600 I think that Hoover. I think Hoover was running the 183 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:36.480 same operation that he ran here in Boston that he authorized. 184 00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:39.080 I shouldn't say he ran it, he authorized in other 185 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.360 major American cities, and obviously would New York at the 186 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.960 top of that list. My guest, we're gonna get right 187 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:47.360 to the meat of the matter, and if you have 188 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:50.960 any question, any question, feel free to get on board. 189 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:52.919 Lou's going to stay with us until eleven o'clock and 190 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:57.480 not a minute later. Six one, seven thirty, six one seven, nine, three, 191 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:00.360 ten thirty. He's a great guest before, would be a 192 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:02.440 great guest tonight. Coming right back on Nightside. 193 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:06.799 Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World 194 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:13.000 night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. 195 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:15.320 With me is Lou Ferrante. Their author of The Mafia 196 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:21.039 Versus America's Political Elite nineteen sixteen and nineteen eighty Boo 197 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:26.559 is the is the core of the story America's political elite. 198 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:28.279 The Kennedy family is. 199 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.320 Well that yeah, that's yeah, it's actually part of it. 200 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:34.879 So it's the second volume is actually titled Bolgada Clash 201 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:40.320 of Titans, and probably the largest aspect is the Kennedy 202 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:45.200 administration versus the Mafia, uh with with Bobby Kennedy obviously 203 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:48.519 at the forefront of that spearheading the charge. But there's 204 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:50.759 also I go deep. I take a deep dive into 205 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:54.120 what happened to Jimmy Hoffer, why he died. I also 206 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:58.080 get into why Joe Colombo, who was he was killed 207 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:02.240 in Columbus Circle in Manhattan during a Unity Day rally 208 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:06.080 for his new Italian Americans. Yeah, Italian American Civil Rights League. 209 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.279 I did a deep dive into that, and once again 210 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:12.120 I urge your listeners to read the book because I 211 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:16.000 put together all the pieces. I don't think anybody's ever 212 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.399 done this before. I've read hundreds of books on the subject. 213 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.720 I'm well sowced. If you look at the back of 214 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:25.159 my book, you'll see all the source notes. And I really, really, 215 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:28.360 I believe, wholeheartedly I'm the first person to ever put 216 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:31.960 the pieces together with the mobs connection to the government, 217 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:35.399 with them as far as the assassination of JFK, why 218 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.320 they did it, and get his closest to who the 219 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:43.639 main players were, the central figures as possible. Also with 220 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:46.840 the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa, I don't think anybody's ever 221 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.519 explained why he died, the reasons behind it, and who 222 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.399 the main conspirators were up until now as well as 223 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:56.519 I have. And I say this, you know, obviously refreshingably 224 00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:59.720 free of false modesty, right, But I do believe that, 225 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:02.639 and I urge you listens to pick up the book 226 00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:04.799 and take a look at it. Also with Joe Colombo 227 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:08.559 saying thing no one understood why he was killed, and 228 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:12.039 you mentioned Hoover, and I do believe had had something 229 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:13.519 to do with the government, I'll give you a little 230 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:17.159 spoiler alert on that one. Yeah, I mean, I do 231 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:21.799 believe that the Colombo assassination as soon as the person 232 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:24.559 fired the gun at Colombo. That person was murdered on 233 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:28.000 the spot, and there was all kinds of conflicting testimony. 234 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.320 People thought that a cop had shot him, someone dressed 235 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:32.919 as an officer had shot him, but the cops swore 236 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:35.919 that they didn't shoot him. Then they tried to blame 237 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:38.279 it on a Colombo guy who was It was impossible 238 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.159 for him to have done it. He wasn't even close 239 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:42.480 to the scene. And then I get it to the 240 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:46.960 heart of it, and I found some incredible adeprint books 241 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:50.279 and one of them was written by an ex FBI agent, 242 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:55.240 and he wrote a book about how the Gambino family 243 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:59.039 was very connected to the CIA at the time and 244 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:02.159 they would never dealt with the clowns when they could 245 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:05.080 go to the circus leader, and he felt that they 246 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:08.799 dealt directly with Carlo Gambino, and Carlo Gambino had every 247 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:11.240 reason to kill Joe Colombo at the time. And I 248 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:14.480 tell the story very well. I urge again your listeners 249 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:18.639 to read the book. And it also to the CIA slash. 250 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.519 FBI may have wanted Colombo dead at the time because 251 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:25.000 he started the Italian American Civil Rights League and it 252 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.200 was just another thorn in their side. They were already 253 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:33.759 dealing with Jewish and African American civil rights leagues. Puerto 254 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:38.879 Ricans were starting to become activists. They didn't want another one. 255 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.320 And there was a lot of talk about Colombo just 256 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.000 you know, going away, and they put tremendous amount of 257 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:45.679 heat on him and as well as the other four 258 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:48.440 families in New York. And then something at some point 259 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:51.799 had to be done, and he gets clipped. But anyway, 260 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:54.799 I put all the moving parts together, and I wanted 261 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.399 the reader to understand it as best as they possibly 262 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:01.720 can after all these decades have gone by, and I 263 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:04.919 had somebody. I talked to somebody who's read just about 264 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:08.159 every JFK book that's ever come out over the last 265 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:11.840 thirty forty years, and he told me, he says, Lou, 266 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:14.039 I've never read anything like this. He says, the way 267 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:16.399 you put the pieces together, He said, I finally had 268 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.080 it all in front of me. You know, you really 269 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:22.240 really created like what I would consider this was his 270 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:23.360 words an indictment. 271 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:26.320 Okay, let meast a couple of questions. I don't want 272 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:28.759 you to give it all away, but okay, what role 273 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:29.960 does Jack Ruby playing this? 274 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:33.480 He plays the role that we all know him to play, 275 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:37.559 which was getting rid of silencing Oswald. And what's interesting 276 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:41.120 is jay Ed Gohova, contrary to his public stance on 277 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:43.799 the matter, he made a comment right away, this is 278 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.960 this is a mob hit. He's obviously silencing somebody. He 279 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:49.159 knew right away. Hoover as soon as he was shot. 280 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.519 Other people knew as well. And Ruby goes deep into 281 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:56.919 his mob connections. He was very heavily connected with Santo 282 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.960 Traffic Conting in Florida, very heavily connected with Carlos Marcelo 283 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:05.360 in Louisiana, and both of those mob bosses who I 284 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.919 referred to as the Gulf Coast mob bosses. Uh, their 285 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:12.360 their their empires, their their fiefdoms being on in the 286 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:18.879 Gulf of Mexico, Louisiana, and Florida. Those two dons were 287 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:22.919 the only dons when Sinatra had Joseph Kennedy Senior and 288 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.960 Frank Sinatra Sinatra being his liaison to the mob, but 289 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:30.000 Joe Kennedy had connections as well. They sort of wooed 290 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:33.519 the mob into believing that if they helped Kennedy into office, 291 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:36.639 they'd have an easy ride with him in office. They 292 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:39.159 were the Kennedy's were going to focus on civil rights 293 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:41.759 for African Americans. They were going to focus on bringing 294 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:45.440 the slowing down the nuclear arms race during the Cold War, UH, 295 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.000 trying to keep the Soviets behind the Iron Curtain. They 296 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:49.159 were going to move on from the Mob. 297 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.919 So they essentially convinced the Mob that the administer Kennedy 298 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.440 administration would have bigger fish to fry. 299 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:59.639 They did. They convinced all of the bosses except Carlos 300 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:04.360 must and Santo Trafficante, who originally backed Lyndon Johnson during 301 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:07.480 the Democratic primary and then when Johnson lost to Kennedy 302 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.799 and became his VP, then they backed Nixon during the 303 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:14.720 general election because those two Mob bosses, Marcello and Trafficante 304 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:17.799 did not trust that the Kennedys would keep their word. 305 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:20.639 So those are the two main players in the Mob 306 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.559 when this has to get done. And UH and Jack 307 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.519 Ruby was heavily connected to both of them, and and 308 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:30.759 it's all laid out. All my evidence is, Saud, I 309 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.440 don't just shoot from the hip and say, uh, you know, 310 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:35.559 this is what I think because I went to sleep 311 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:37.360 last night and I had a Gin and Tonic and 312 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:40.080 this is what hit me. It's all lost. Yeah, I mean, 313 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:43.000 it's all, it's all heavily sauced, and I just I 314 00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:43.919 put the pieces together. 315 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.399 Was it the the girlfriend Judith Exner? 316 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.559 She I mean she was Johnny Rosselli's sort of Johnny 317 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:58.960 Roselli brought her into the mix. Judith Exner slash Judith Campbell. Yeah, 318 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.879 Johnny Roselli met her in Hollywood, introduced to the Sinatra Sinatra. 319 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.200 Apparently Rosselli had played around with her. Sinatra had played 320 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:10.240 around with her. Sam g and Connor had played around 321 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.440 with her. So she kind of got around. And at 322 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:16.640 some point or another she's dating Jack Kennedy and she 323 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:20.279 becomes sort of like a courier during the Democratic primary 324 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.640 when the mob is shuffling money to Kennedy. Now a 325 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.119 lot of people who try to attack her and say, well, 326 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:28.680 it's not true. What is true. What we do know 327 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:32.440 is Jed Hoover had seventy or eighty phone calls back 328 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.839 and forth to the White House between her and Jack Kennedy, 329 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:38.519 and they eventually approached President Kennedy about it, and Bobby 330 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:41.000 and said this has to stop. She's heavily connected with 331 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:42.839 the mobsters and he's worn around with her, and this 332 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:46.079 is gonna blow up in your face, and basically Hoover 333 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.240 was kind of That's how Hoover used to blackmail people. 334 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:51.599 You know, he said, well, you know, this came across 335 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:53.359 my desk and I just wanted you to know it's 336 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:55.440 safe with me, you know. But that was his way 337 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.400 of telling your wink wink, be careful what you do. 338 00:17:57.960 --> 00:17:59.759 So that was what he did. Yeah, that's what he 339 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:03.119 did to Jack and Bobby and uh so, I mean, look, 340 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:03.960 it's it's obvious. 341 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:09.359 You don't think I'm assuming that Hoover had anything to 342 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:12.920 do with the hit on on on Jack Kennedy. 343 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:15.720 You know, I couldn't. I couldn't prove that. But I 344 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:18.440 tell you what I can prove. I don't. I don't 345 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:20.960 say that he did because I won't. I won't talk 346 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.359 out of you know, I. 347 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:27.920 Don't think no, no, but I will. I'm interested in 348 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.160 what your thought on it is. Because I don't think 349 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:30.640 I'll tell. 350 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:32.079 You what he did. Then well I'll tell you what 351 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:35.400 he did do. So, I mean, there is culpability there, 352 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:38.960 but not necessarily you know, an active conspirat up. But 353 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.440 I will, I'll tell you where the culpability lies. So 354 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:44.160 Hoover is Hoover is having a war with Bobby. When 355 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.440 Bobby becomes a GI. Hoover has had always gone directly 356 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.200 to the president for decades since he was since he 357 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:54.440 was appointed the head of the FBI, and he always never, never, 358 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:56.319 he never went through the Attorney General. 359 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:59.799 Never, his standard operating procedure, right to the. 360 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:04.039 Bar correct always, And then Bobby gets in and he's like, 361 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:05.920 you know, I mean, his first teeth came in when 362 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.000 Hoover was appointed head of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 363 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:11.240 And Bobby says, you're gonna have to go through me, 364 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:15.359 fan now on, I'm your boss, and he starts really really, 365 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.319 you know, he's abusing him. And I go through that 366 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:20.240 in the book as well. I mean, he puts a 367 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.599 buzzer on his desk and he says, anytime I buzz you, 368 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.319 I want you to come running to my office. And basically, 369 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:27.119 you know, Hoover's huffing and puffing up and down the 370 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:31.039 corridors in the Justice Department, constantly getting buzzed by Bobby, 371 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.599 to the point where one day Bobby says he had 372 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.720 a visitor in his office and he says, you want 373 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:37.799 to see me get Hoover over here, just for kicks. 374 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:40.359 And he says sure, and he buzzed them, and you know, 375 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:45.359 like Hoover was fuming. So now Hoover hates Bobby. And 376 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:47.880 Bobby keeps telling Hoover, go after the mob, Go after 377 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:50.720 the mob, go after the mob. And Hoover knows that 378 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:52.559 he doesn't want to do a deep dive into the 379 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.200 mob because he knows they're all connected to may as, governors, congressman, 380 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:59.359 senate is where's he gonna go with this? You know, 381 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:01.720 even do you want me to look into your father 382 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:05.359 Joe Kennedy Senior during bootlegging? How about his Hollywood company, 383 00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:08.039 how he kept labor relations going through the mob? You 384 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.079 don't want me to do this. So Hoover thought he 385 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:13.240 was nuts. But Bobby kept punching away at Hoover, saying, 386 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:15.359 you can't keep chasing communists. You got to go after 387 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.839 the mob. So Hoover hates them. At some point or another, 388 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.440 the Kennedy's make the decision that they're going to retire 389 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.240 Hoover during Kennedy's second term. If Kennedy wins a second term, 390 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.359 Hoover's out the door. And that was like, that was 391 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:32.039 like killing him, Hoover. And then one better, one better, today, 392 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.960 we don't care who was a homosexual today, but been 393 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.839 during the nineteen sixties. Homosexuality was something that it was 394 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:43.559 unacceptable in society. And he was dead set on smearing 395 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:46.400 Hoover as a homosexual. And he even had people look 396 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.839 into his background and it got back to Hoover. So 397 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.480 Hoover hates Bobby, hates Jack. And now all of these 398 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.559 death threats coming from the mob. Hoover's got these listening devices, 399 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.799 illegal listening devices planted in mob hanging out throughout the country. 400 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.759 They were called black bag jobs. And agents would go 401 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:05.720