Speaker 1: I think people have been surprised to know that there
are lots of modern day reports of upright hairy preachers
in our woodlands. It lent out with the greenering like this.
You couldn't see it in full far the top of
it lean out and it was very you like a
man and an eight that had been pushed together. And
he looked and he said, there was this creature song
in their death and I couldn't describe it. Said it
wasn't a job because it's standing up on two legs,
but it definitely had some kind of protuberancy here. But
look at our a falcon breath. From the nineteen seventies,
people of serving soldiers have reported what they eid have
called the hard stand monstuff, the upright standing wolf on
that base, and each witness says that that creature ran
off to the north woods, so it took the same root.
Speaker 2: Each time, you're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network,
and now it's time for the Paranormal Peep Show.
Speaker 3: Hi, welcome to the Paranormal Peep Show on the Paranormal
UK Radio Network. I'm Neil Ward and I'm joined once
again by Andy Chaplin and Ben Emlyn Jones. Welcome guys,
and how are you both?
Speaker 4: Neil, you go first, Andy, I've pretty similar to you
go first, mate.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just been back from the UFO Academy in High
Elms in Watford and Ben was there and had a
great time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was fantastic. Yeah, I mean it was. It's
a beautiful it's great conference in the most beautiful location.
It's lovely on manor House and there's a beautiful lawn
and there's trees all around it, and there's a terrace.
And we said we were up to one am talking.
Well I was half asleep, but the rest of you
guys were talking. It was and we to the hose
and to the other speakers and it was just it
was such good fun. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Who was the top speaker for you? Well, for me,
I'm not sure.
Speaker 4: I mean it's possibly Matt Hurley, you know, I disagreed
with a lot of what he said.
Speaker 5: Fact is quite factory and evidential, which I quite liked that.
Speaker 4: David Griffin is good to see David Griffin. It was
great to see him again because he's such a recluse.
He's very difficult to get a hold of, and he
already he hardly ever that makes public appearances these days.
So it's really really great to see him. It really
really was.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think he get his email.
Speaker 4: I've got his email.
Speaker 5: Oh cool, Yeah, we could, we could have him, have
him on again, Neil. Have we had him before David Griffin, No.
Speaker 6: We haven't.
Speaker 3: I've been wanting to get good get David Briffin sometime.
He'd know all about the Black Goo and everything like that.
So he's like one of the pioneering researchers into that area.
So I thought, I definitely when I found out that
he was going to be there, I definitely that's why
I said, grab his email and kidnap him or with something.
Speaker 4: Well I did. I did have a chance to mention this,
but I mean he I'm sorry, Neil, I didn't have
a chance. But you know, he's he's he's got a
really interesting idea. Has just written a book or think
I think this book coming soon. He's connected this whole
thing to the Falkland Islands and Black Go and the
Marconi company went there where there was a but in
just a space for just eight years, there were like
twenty three deaths and yeah they were very suspicious. One
was an extremely bizarre and very gruesome suicide, and there
were many many others that were really weird and and
it doesn't make sense. I think he's uncovered something really
really strange going on. I remember that.
Speaker 3: Well because my dad worked for Marconi around the time
these deaths were occurring. I remember being a bit concerned,
you know, I think he's.
Speaker 4: All right, that's not good.
Speaker 3: Had no idea it's connected at that time to anything
to do with something called black goo or anything like that.
Speaker 5: So I can ask somebody on our local awaken Away
group in Hertfordshire because he used to work for Marconi
as well. He doesn't anymore, but he's an older generation guy,
so he might have some information on him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean he might have signed the Official
Secrets Act, but it was worth asking. You never know,
you know, he might do it anonymously or something, you know,
cover himself in black goo then come on the screen, right, okay,
So from black go to other strange things that look
in the woods, and this time it's strange things that
look in the woods. In the UK we've heard of
things like Bigfoot and sasquatch and Yowie's all around the world.
Australia Canada, United States. But this time people might be
surprised to learn that there have been reports of Bigfoot
or sasquatch or yeow is.
Speaker 6: Whatever you want to call them, but they're actually in
the UK. And joining us from the north of England
is Deborah. Hatswell, Deborah, thanks very much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks for asking me to come on. I think
the creature you're describing is what history in the UK
we would call the woodwalls, so a tall, hairy, eighth
man cave man ty like thing that's been seen without history.
I think people would be surprised to know that there
are lots of modern daily thoughts, all bright, hairy creatures
in our woodlands.
Speaker 6: And how did you become involved in all this?
Speaker 4: Then?
Speaker 1: Well, people ask me if I had an interesting critis
or anything like that, and I didn't. I was only
fifty as a fifteen year old girl, so it would
have been nineteen eighty two. I loved you. Salford, which
is an ordinary town in the northwest of England, is
nothing rural about it, absolutely nothing, And I should have
been going into school. If you think on back again,
we used to do all levels TCSS and you do
the mop a few months before, and then normally by
that time in school you're not really doing lessons and
the teacher's just rolling the TV in for another film.
I just decided I wasn't going in. I was a fit, willful,
and I just thought, I'm not going in. I'm just
going to stand in the rest of the afternoon in
the park. And that was kind of what I did.
I was with the friend ordinary day, probably May June time,
nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever, completely completely normal, and
I noticed a movement in the corner of my eye,
and when I looked a lot time with something I
didn't know what to call it back then, but it
was something that kind of it went out with the
greenering like this. It wasn't you couldn't see it in
full farm. The top of it went out, and it
was very he like a man and an hate that
had been pushed together in some way. I only looked
at him for a second that didn't sit there and
you know, gaze at him lovingly, and no mobile phones. Honestly,
I was so frightened, without thinking, I think it was primal.
I pushed my friends to the floor and I was
looking and I was running and I was running in
the opposite direction, and I look back to felt preservations
to see if he was coming after him, and each
other went back into the green room. He was completely gone.
He was gone, and he looked me up like maybe
maybe hide led against this or a early early homonage
of some farm, completely hair covered, very thick muscle. I
distinctly remember thick muscle here and here and here where
he pronounced brow ridge, normal tea, not like can ninety
or anything out of Ammon's House of fore or nothing
like that. But he was huge. He was really really big.
And over the years people have told me he was
probably a homeless man or a man in a suit,
and he wasn't any of those things. I don't know
what he was, but he wasn't anything that could be
easy would be explained away.
Speaker 5: What color was the fur that you saw?
Speaker 1: He had very very dark brown hair, so I only
saw him from his chest, and I didn't see legs
around or any of that. I seeing it from here,
and it was really really dark brown. But where some
party it was almost red or raburn. It was really strange.
He could see his skin through it, so not like
not like like a gorilla where you can't see anything
through the hair. It was distinct skin, and luckily for me,
two years later, another lady saw a creature in the
same place and she described the thing that she thought
it stood out under a light, and she said it
had a pot belly, it had male Jenny talios. It
was completely naked, hairy from head to toe, and she
described it as looking like a chimp and a man,
almost combined. Now there's nothing in that area that would
account that is Honestly, back then, I was really hoping
someone was say, oh, there was a circus or you know,
there was a showing town or something of state from
Bellevue or something that would have made it much easier
for me because I just put it to bed and
gone on with my little life. But I never was
able to do that, so I just thought I didn't
want to do so just started looking for other people.
I mean fifteen, I had no clue. Went to the
library because there was no internet back in nineteen eighty
two or anything. So I went to the library and
I asked them and they just gave me a stick
of the dump and I knew then it was on me,
And do you then I didn't think I'd be still
doing it all these years later, though. I thought I'd
fin anstar put it to bed and away I'd got
I just carried on. I probably would have been in
human resources or something like that, would have just carried
on with my career. It didn't pan out like that
for me. I remember going home and my mom said,
when I came in through the doors to that and
man had got me, She said, I was absolutely hysterical,
and she darted. Man in the park had got me.
And I couldn't get the words out explained to her
what to see. And I had to go back the
next day because it was right next to me school,
and I was absolutely starified. I thought he was around
every corner and every portion. He was. I've seen him,
so he's going to want to get met to stop
me from telling people what I've seen. And that stayed
with me. It took me twenty five years ago. I
went back in twenty fifty.
Speaker 5: Are there any reports of UFO activity in that area.
Speaker 1: Yes, lots of paranormal like lots of UFO activity. That
there is a mansion there, andy an old mansion. I
think it's Grecian. But before that, there's always been a
building on the site from the fifteenth century. John d
was involved, and it is said that he conjured a
number of day And how did he say he conjured
a number of demons from that property? Well, I don't
think he was with ed, would Telly at the time.
I think it was when he was exiled and sent
to Manchester. So I started looking back and I realized
it was a plague field. So they buried the dead
there of the plane. A wooden house had gone on
it in sixteen some day and that burnt down, and
then the present mansion, I think well then was built
on it. So yeah, lots of there was. I spoke
to somebody, just shyer and and she said to me,
what year was it? Said nineteen eighty two? Said I
looked at Mike Brown, looked a mile away in the
streets as we called it to like Coronation Street, lots
of terraces. And she said she was there one day.
She looked up the stairs and she said it wasn't
a were wolf. It was far more frightening than that.
I don't know what it was. It was all black
in color, and he rans off of the stairs at
her and my grandmother, who was a traveler lady in
Roman and like my family says, we don't buddy, child,
it can't hurt you can't do anything to you. And
now all these years and I wonder if it's all
connected in some way, you know, I don't know. I'm
still looking for answers.
Speaker 5: I suppose m And just for those who don't know,
John D I think signed off as double O seven,
which is where in Fleming got the James Bond double
O seven thing was, and the reason why he was
actually a spy for queen. First he was an English
I've got his Wikipedia. Actually an English mathematician, astronomer, teacher, astrologer,
and here we go, a cultist, an alchemist.
Speaker 1: Outside the hall, there were four stones, and they were
each different. One was limestone, one was granite, one I
can't remember, this one that I can never remember. And
the other one was obsidian, this huge piece of Obsivia,
and I know Ed would tell you to cry with Obsivian.
And I always they're not there, that the stones have gone.
I've tried chasing tracing them, can't trace the Probably in
somebody's garden or something like that, or in the museum.
And I wondered it it was. I know that the
line of Albany delay line and right through it, right
through the center of the house, and I wondered if
it was to do with that. Is it a place
where anonyma happens because of that particular area, If it's
something about that particular area that either puts it out
or a traxic like a magnet, I don't know. I
don't know, but did the reports just kept coming and
maybe just spread out across the UK and then that
went worldwide and it just became my job really in
a way, I think it was my way of coping
with it.
Speaker 3: H Was there a predominance of a certain area that's
through up lots of sightings.
Speaker 1: People? Since you think that there aren't any sciences free
about nineteen barty and that's wrong, There are, there are,
and there are UK we I do believe since since
about twenty fourteen in the UK bigfoot has become a word,
the British big foot has become away, so anything in
it's upright covered in hair will fall under that under
Ellena doesn't work for me. It's an American name, so
they're not sasquatch, you know, they're not anything like that. Future.
In every country that I've worked in, every single one
of them has a history of like a wood wolves
or a wild man, you know, like the Alaskans they
have the hairy man. In Russia they have the Almors,
and You're they call the less Shane. In the UK
they will call the wolves wood wolves, and I see
if it just means a man of the wood in
Old English, it isn't anything, you know, and they were
threw with it like so, they are mentioned in Pliny's Diaryge.
They're also mentioned in the All's mentioned when they came
up to Scotland and they call them the sastrus, which
with these feral humans that would steal fish from the
nets and run off with the masons from the villagers.
So is there in our history and it's it's modern
times where we have the ability now to start communicative globally.
And then the sighting reports that you're thinking, well, al com,
I'm reporting the same thing that the Native Americans were reporting.
Our low gear to go. We're trying to put all
of that information into one place and make it music
to understand is really hard. That's the hardest battle.
Speaker 4: Ion.
Speaker 1: Each individual witness has their own name, for the thing
that they do.
Speaker 5: So it's going to I was just going to say quickly, Sasquatch,
I think is a Native American name, so in terms
of British we shouldn't be calling it Sasquatch. Did you
say wolfman?
Speaker 1: They call it the woods wolves, but most people and
to call it the UK wild man UK. Well, yeah,
so a lot of people say it was a wild man.
He was completely naked and he was running from one
set of trees to the other, which was all covered
in hair. And when you look at the descriptions from
the witnesses, that's why I started to collate them because
I wanted to see if there was a pattern within them,
patterns of how my brain worked. And I realized there
was a pattern within them. Some people report me big
eight foot tall ape like creatures. They'll use the word gorilla, ape, baboon, bear, wolf,
anything that's really really big. And then we have something
that seems to be about five and a half to
about six and a half feet tall, very cave man like,
even stead to be wearing loin cloths. That seems to
do the same thing. In all of the cases. The
creature sees the human being and heads in the opposite direction.
So you've got that split second, and then you've got
try and get as much information out of that witness
as you can from them, seeing.
Speaker 4: As far on the actual nature of these appress and
what they are. There's no doubt in my mind that
in North America and in parts of Asia, and in
many it may be Australia and other places, there is
literally a cryptid. There's literally a species of animal which
an upright simi and ape type of creature, which is
living very elusive, avoiding human contact. And in those parts
of the world there's a huge amount of open space
and wilderness where they could live without any contact with
the humans. Now in Britain it's a different matter. I mean,
I'm not one hundred percent she was completely impossible, but
we have a much more densely populated landscape. There's like
I think there's eighteen hundred people to square mile or
something in the United States, it's like eight it's like
four hundred or something square more on average. So I
could hear something whispering. Did I hear that you were
a too neil? Yeah? Very really? What's that.
Speaker 6: Indiscernible? But I could hear something.
Speaker 4: It looks like a woman's voice whispering there.
Speaker 6: I mean, my phone just went off.
Speaker 3: I put it into airport modes because I don't get
into Shortly I heard this whispering, and I.
Speaker 5: Thought, well, maybe it's the recording.
Speaker 6: Was on the record you may you may or may
not be on the recording then anyway.
Speaker 1: You mean, then it's not enobitat in the UK, and
there aren't enough, not a it's complete left impossible. Absolutely.
Speaker 5: What I would suspect is the reason I asked about
the UFO thing earlier is that I'm because I I
listened to a lot of the American Sasquatch and Native
American reports of you know, if you want to call
it that, and a lot of people are reporting at
the same time that they're seeing Bigfoot or very much
in the same area and the same time period they're
also reporting UFOs, Grays, Aliens and that kind of thing.
I think Ben's right. I think in terms of would
there be some kind of tribe that's never been discovered
within the UK, I would say highly unlikely, not impossible,
but highly unlikely due to the fact that we're quite
a small island. I'm veering much more towards the fact
that whatever these beings are, they might be within the
band of ghost spirits, eaties, inter dimensionals, alien within that frequency.
Speaker 1: When I started out and I was working for an
egg as Christian Panzic are an undiscovered crimeate you know
and benj Raight, all of us in the world, there
is there is the space for that, and then just
give it crimeate. There isn't space for that. In the UK,
I was working a job with the Discovery Channel about
three months ago. Then they filmed They were filming a
program pileed naked in a bread and they were filming
it in Austalia and during the filming she found huge nest.
Now when I say huge, it's probably eight nine feet off.
It's just all of the debris that's been dragged off
the floor. Now there's no eggs in it. Birds make
a bit of a mess. When he making there was nothing,
it was absolutely clear. And the producer said, they are
what they do is and the camera don't know. They
always have a team reguards so no animal can get
in and get you know, while they're filming and stuff
like that. And one of the rangers came instead, not
stop filming, you can't talk about it. And he was like, what,
oh wow, that's a primate mess. It's been made by
your primates.
Speaker 5: Where were they filming this? Where were they filming this?
Speaker 1: I can go and look it up himself. It was
the latest series of Naked and Afraid for anybody who
watches the program.
Speaker 5: And yeah, the raby says, you can't talk about it.
Speaker 1: Don't talk about it. You study that science system.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the word he used as primates now was human
beings are primates in the UK? Was it a surprise
you to know that less than twenty percent of the
UK is urban? That sounded me at the time. Less
than twenty percent of the UK is urban and we
haven't discussed subterraneal now. I'm like you, guys, I in
the beginning was convinced it was flesh and blood and
flesh and blood only there was no dimensional. I don't
feel like that. I've been in the game too long
and I've spoken to too many witnesses. For some people,
the experience that they have is very flesh and blood,
but for others it's a creature that vanishes in front
of them, almost like it's been such from the atmosphere
I've heard that quite a few times.
Speaker 4: It's interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so many theories, and I think i'd be honestly,
I'd be a fool to dismiss any of them until
I literally sit down with one and they tell me
what they are. I'd be a filled and not to
look at all of the theories.
Speaker 6: See, I've been through a similar journey in deb I mean,
I did wonderful.
Speaker 4: I did really entertain the idea there was a real
cryptoid in Great Britain, as as impossible as it might be.
And it was you who convinced me. I remember, But
I mean I haven't. On reflection, I've I've also started
to doubt that. I mean, I think Nick Hayes and
his encounter where where where he had his encounter in
Live Valley. It is literally there's no green corridor out
of Live Valley. There's the golf course, but you've go
for across the golf course, and there's like Marston and this,
and then there's Headington and there's the carry Road. It's
literally there's no green corridor out of there. But his
experience was extremely persuasive, not least because I know the
man and I took him to the area and he
reacted emotionally to being present even though we were there,
went there in daylight. And also there's other and Andy's
mentioned the the fact that some's some bigfoot like creatures
even though they're obviously not bigfoot. There obviously were formed
phenomena as Jonathan Downs caused them have been seen in
associated with other paranormal phenomena, and for example the pres
Squy Isle sighting where the presc sighting of nineteen sixty
five where some people in the car saw a UFO
land in the distance behind the trees and a bigfoot
came out and attacked their car. And I believe it
or not, there's evidence in terms of the claw marks
on the on the chassis and the paint being scratched
and things like that. A very scary event. So maybe
even something that could be things could be solid, and
they may have a fur and maybe flesh and blood.
This doesn't mean they're necessarily physical, permanently physical. They can
become etheric etheric and physical objects can actually interchange, which
is which is very astrange. But it does happen with
things such as I mean people say ghosts you just
walk for ghosts of like etheric and you just walk
through them. There's people who's shaking the hands of ghosts
and they feel naughty.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's weird, I know, and that's what
fascinates me about it. I got boxed off in the
early day that what I saw was a big foot
and nothing more. I can't sound that word now because
if people think that's the only thing that I did.
If it was purely flesh and blood, I wouldn't have
branched out into the other subjects. If I was dealing
with just an eight and nothing more than an egg. Well,
they kept it on a biological, scientific level. I like you.
Then you sit down with people and you look Charmain Fraser,
for instance, Yeah, red A Blad unbelievable.
Speaker 4: Her experience is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It's really nice and she talks about that experience to
the fact that it shaped her life and she actually
worked in the mental health bil. It changed my life,
It changed Nick Kay's life. There are a core group
of witnesses who've done everything they can to find out
what they saw that gag. There's a lady called Karen
Bart and she lives up on in the northeast of England.
She lives and Stanley Constant kind of area, so kind
of Durhamish. She was six years old, she was playing
out in an area called sam Fieldy with a number
of girls. She looked up a tree and she's said,
up there it was this wild man. She's never used
the word before, never used the word eight grill said
he was a wild man and she's been trying to
paint him for forty four years so that she can
show people what she starw that day. She said he
had a tool in his hand, like a bone too,
and he just looked for her. He didn't do anything
to me, and he just looked and she ran off
then and the other girls with her didn't see him.
So that was meant for her in some way, or
did she connect to some bid and that was why
she was able to see it. But all these years later,
it is still very predominant in her mind because it changes,
just like a UFO induction. You can't walk away from it.
You know, you need you need answers.
Speaker 5: So I've found where some of Naked and a Faith
has been filmed, So a lot of it is the
United States. So got Louisiana Bayou, Florida, Everglades, Seminole County, Alabama,
also Panama and Nicoagua, as well.
Speaker 1: As the new season that's just been filmed. I think
it's the best of the best or something like that.
I find it for you, I'll send it. I'll send
it over and show it to you. It's really interesting
because they've left it in the program. Yeah, they've watched
it in the program. And the time where I didn't
just pull back late off the dailies, I don't know.
I didn't, but I don't own it. They own it, Johnna.
But yeah, I was thinking, Debbie, go back and find
it and share it because if they cut it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, a lot of people believe that and they I
did two back in the day that there was a
lot of structures in the woodlands that were being made
by a bigfoot and we've been able to get rid
of maybe nineteen nine percent of them.
Speaker 1: So I realized, I said, do a reeling debth course
on what was early man building on this island fourteen
thousand years ago and most human beings before we ever built.
We made it to breathe, pile up tile hay sixty
breaks warm. You get in it like a composty and
it's father than night and then you move on to
the next area. On what they were showing in off
Reily was exactly that. It was an old debrace. I
even went back and looked what were idled against doing,
because we can prove that they were here in the
UK and they were kind of in between, so they
were building like brush shelters, and then obviously the advanced
a bit, so you know that if you start to
put six in the shelters strongest, you'd stay there for
a couple of days with food for and you'd move
on to the next one. I actually balanced that between
how do you get one footprint in the middle of
a snowy field.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems impossible, like.
Speaker 1: A structure that completely disappears overnight. But here's a chapping
with him where I live, no interesting cryptis or anything
like that. Started having real strange things happening through him
in the woods, and he got in such rude as
things were happening at home. Something was literally banging on
the wall that the house when he wasn't starting off
for CCTV. So he said that one sounds when he
was in the woodland the like more like a teepee shape.
Would you appear and disappear overnight. I said to him,
let's test the energy around it. Let's you know, let's
have a test. Let's see what it does. And he
broke his phone. So he tried to replicate it a
number of times and each time he took it back
to the phone shot it's said, it's been hit. I
am magnetic child, but this is just wooden stick.
Speaker 4: The Day's the best day Life listener Nomal UK Radio Network.
Speaker 8: Join Andrew o'leil every month on the Paranor peep Show,
part of the Paranoral UK Radio Network for fun that
frolics and lots of information about weird stuff, UFOs, ghosts
and things that go bump in the night and everything
associated with them. Fascinating guests, fascinating talk, fascinating information.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Part two of the Paranormal peep Show on
the Paranormal UK Radio Network, and we're talking to Debra
Hatswell about strange signings around the UK that could be
attributed to something called bigfoot or big hairy men or
big beasts and things like that.
Speaker 6: Deborah, one of the things that was curious to me
was has there been a kind of.
Speaker 3: Investigation into the people that do these signs or I
have these experiences, Are they any way deemed to be
psychic or clear voidt in anyway? I'm just wondering what
they're having or what indeed yourself had had, maybe of
a clear voyant kind of experience rather than a physical
big foot pading through the fields.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say so, most definitely. Like I said,
when it started for me, I'd had experiences as a
child that you would CLASSI paranorl and I never put
that together for the incident that happened when he was fifteen.
It was just working with other witnesses. I started to
notice the patterns. I have a condition called the earl
and syndrome, So if I read a book, I see
the rivers between the lions before I see the letters.
So my brain catches onto patterns. And I realized that
people who were having very flesh and blood type experienced
this were very logical and scientific, and they wanted the
proof and the video. And people who were almost having
what I would call like visitations from Sasquatch or whatever name,
tended to be very naturrey, you know, pagan whipan into
the old religion going back in time looking at England
as the whole. We get more reports now that are
more I don't matter what word I would give. It
kind of sits between this ape and this sentient being.
Kind of like hybrid, yeah, kind of a hybrid of
the two. Then mentioned it before, what if it's something
that can change it's it's a physical shape.
Speaker 4: It's interesting that for you what you said about the
types of people who see different phenomena. For so, for example,
in that case, I expect you'd expect someone like Richard
de Hall or Timothy Good to see an alien, whereas
Maria Wheatley it would be the kind of person we'd
like to see a wood woes and and are.
Speaker 1: We dealing with an entity or a being that will
show itself in a physical stance depending on it's the gender.
So for some people, the strangeness. Some people will have
an experience when they're in the twenties to thirty of
the farty, but when they were a child, they would
dream about a wolf in the bedroom, or they would
see a wolf within the bedroom. It was always something
scary in the bedroom. And I started to realize that
a lot of the people were just having expses with
these cryptic creatures. So I started to ask about anything
happened when you were younger, they ever had strange experiences,
and it starts to open up and tell me about
paranormal experience it or experiences of the UFO or any
other's farm of you know, strange when explaining activity that's
out there, and it tends to find it. The more
open people are, the more accepted they are, the easier
and nicer the event is. So for me, I had
no knowledge, so I start a monster that was coming
to get met. But somebody else maybe who've had and
understanding our history, got you know, going back to generations, so.
Speaker 5: He did it.
Speaker 1: For instance, I spoke to two witnesses and it's the
same situation. And you know Neil Robston, we all know
the Bottom Lake area, and.
Speaker 4: That's an interesting combination of the two, isn't it. That's
very interesting.
Speaker 1: Well, there was a couple out enjoying the evening. We
shall stay within the woodlands and as they were enjoying
the evening, the lady star something big and hair that
was watching them. She screamed and panicked. So you called
these pants up and set off after it. Now on
the other side of the UK. You've got a lady
who's very she's our collar on Earth mudbus. She's very
into a spiritual miss and she was also enjoying the
woodland with her partner and was spied upon. And her
attitude was, oh, this is just the wild man looking
at lovers room in the wood. So there's all that
kind of thing comes into it. If you've got a
knowledge of what you've seen, it's really news. But for me,
it wasn't because people, it was an alien. It was this.
It was that I suppose you guys could help me
with something. I'm working a case at the moment and
I'm trying to trace something from the unexplained magazine theories.
Do you remember that.
Speaker 4: Wanted to read that interest from age?
Speaker 1: So I had a chap get in touch with me
only about six weeks ago and he lives in my
local area and Wigan Way and he was moving up
to Scotland and he said, before I go deav, I'd
love it if you could meet me at the area
and I'll tell you the experience I had when I
was a ten year old.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 1: So he'd later in life had quite a few UFO
experiences but when he was a ten year old kid,
a lot of us in this part of his mining
land here, so all of these estates then and then
it just would grow up. So you get to the
next and a new town or new thing. So the
green belts in between me and him. It's ten year old.
It's ten o'clock at night. And his friend said, a
day to run too farmfield and run back so you
can go the furthest. And he said, as I set off,
I saw the red light. Now we mentioned before him
out lights and aufs and energy being connected for these beings.
And he thought at first it was somebody really tall,
smoking a cigarette and a dance, and he said, and
as he thought that, something said to him, look to
your left, up to your left, and he looked, and
he said there was his creature. So in their deb
and I couldn't describe it. He said it wasn't a
job because it was standing up on two legs. But
he definitely had some kind of protuberance there. And he
said he didn't frighten him, but it being there was
frightening enough. So obviously he's run back and he's kind
of held that together. When we went out to the site,
and I said to me, showing where the creature was
standing there and I said, show me where you lived
as a child, and he went that house there and
I thought, oh my god, if the bedroom for here,
anything else ever happened at the house. Oh yeah, it's
funny you should say that we've had bar lightning go
through the house twice. Ow boy didn't leave a mark
butt the house on the end gable completely lost it
at gable and they had to rebuild it. Now I'm thinking,
how can ball lightly go right through your house not
affect your curtains or anything? And if it else, second, well,
there was another time when we were there and that
you know, the back door just flew open and the
Marsis lock was on and the job started growling at
the door before it was open. So we started out.
We just managed to have this one experience that's had
and you realize he's had a series of experiences from
being born right the way through. He's probably in my age.
He's nearly six, you know, and still having them.
Speaker 5: How old was the house? Roughly, I would say it was.
Speaker 1: A new but I would say it had gone in
after the war. So I was looking at like like
a counsel ass day. Yeah, I knew, you know, like
when you what would they call them around here? And
I think they call them like new towns. So it
would have been built through the war. Once the miningland
is okay to build on, they would have put it on.
And it's a nature reserved and it's what's the sishing
down there, and it's a lovely area, but there are
so many people down there that are scene this dog
like snouted creature that you know, we don't know what
names to give it. It's not he said a couple
of weeks later. The only thing he can put it
through is a couple of weeks later, his brother used
to collect the Unexplained Maggid and there was an article
in it describing four types of alien. One was your
typical gray, one was your gnawgic, one was your robotic,
and the other one was animalistic. And he said, that's
the closest thing you'd ever seen that represents what he
staw that day. It wasn't a big giant, he said.
It wasn't much taller than him. And he was a
ten year old by and I said, did it like
growl at you or anything? He went, no, it just
looked as shock to see me as I did to
see it, and that's exactly how it felt for me.
And I was on old mining land. And I'm wondering
if the disturbance over the years, you know, I always
kind of brought something to I mean, he's completely normal,
you know, it's not the chat you divide in a pub.
But he's had these extraordinary experiences and quite a lot
of them have been UFO based.
Speaker 5: And did you say that people are seeing these entities
and you suspect they're seeing it according to their own
belief systems or what they're expecting to see.
Speaker 1: Is that the way I couldn't make it easy to understand.
If you walk out in the street now and you
see a creature, yeah, your brain will go is it
a wolf? Is it a lion? Is it a bear?
You'll flip through your roller deecks and of all the
things that it could possibly be. And I'd never heard
of big Foot. Maybe if i'd have heard of i'd
I heard you like the Abominable Snowman. But that was
you know, all the way in the layers. Nothing like
that in England. So yeah, I think people are very
good at putting words on things. It was this, It
was that, it was definitely this, depending on their research
and where they sit with him. I always asked the person,
what would you say? Well, that's what I always say.
For the witness, what would you call it? What would
you say? It was an invariable? These are with an
animal word and the word man. Don Yeah, yeah, always man.
Speaker 5: It makes me think of and I'm going to look
this up of the hairy hands. Has anyone heard of the.
Speaker 1: I've got reports around there and death and if day
Mary are where the hairy hands have been steed. There
are a number of reports, and all those reports had
taken place over a dirty year period and they're always
in January February bed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, here we are. Hairy Hands of Dartmoor a folklore
tale about a pair of disembodied hairy hands that are
said to attack drivers on a stretch of road between
post Bridge and Two Bridges in Devon, England. It grabbed
the steering wheels and causes accidents and potentially fatal It
is the myth has been passed down through generations.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: And then you've got people in that area who reporting
had a waltz like preaching yeah or big foot like creature.
So the bod lady there is an area called Woody Bay.
It's right on the top. It's an old hotel that's
not used anymore. And I think it was during COVID.
It was not of COVID. Of the year after, she
went for a watch and she was really annoyed at us.
About ten o'clock at night, middle of nowhere, you're out
on the list in Devin. She comes to the gate.
Dog refuses to follow her, and she said, as she's
walking down this lane, there's no lighting her out like that.
She hears this, She said it I felt I could
walked into something. The atmosphere completely changed, and I could
hear this clicking noise coming from up on the embankments
and something was answering it from down below. And she
said it felt like I walked into a hunting batter.
So by the time I spoke, well most of the
time by people found me, they've gone beyond proof. They
want an anstage. She kept saying, will it come to
the our then no, it was I think it just
walked into something and it was Looking at those reports
made me realize that whatever was going on was happening
around the new moons of jump there. So maybe it's
something connected towards human beings on this island, you know,
that's connected to ur that we still feel sometime we
still tune into it. No difference to see in a
ufo or a ghost in may I, to be honest,
wouldn't makes sense.
Speaker 4: In Britain is it is said to be the most
paranormal place in the world. People call it the hard
shack of the world. There's some energy center here for
those who are conspiratory a minded. This is the headquarters
of the world government, the Illuminati, things like that.
Speaker 6: If there are any kind of data that kind of
connects these.
Speaker 3: Sightings with rivers, I mean I was thinking Dark Moor,
dart or River and if so, would the river be
something to do with the paranormal or would it simply
be because town and villages are established.
Speaker 1: He had all the same the arts, and he also
took meself to college and learned about our theology and
the early bricks and you know, their foraging roots and
things like that. If we're looking for a flesh and
blood creature moving to Betweeted, So let's say the Pennines
are central England and it's moving out to the coast,
it might have been directed. You're trifling your food stass
because you've got all your woodland food, your head, your
own food. And as you get towards that salt water,
every mammal on the earth has to have salt. The
salt itself could be the jar here. You also can
eat every single seaweed in the UK. It's all edible,
So you're trifling your food staces. But like you said,
is it because around estuaries and rivers we get more people,
some more people see them, so like on the River Medway,
for instance, the last place in the world that we
should be getting the island grain poland ken no way
to be a creature there. But they're being reported, you know,
and the neighbors are reporting them and talking to each
other about it, and it's just to them, it's normal.
It's a normal thing. And I couldn't understand that. It's
a look that was as a map I thought a
long time ago on this big piece of paper on
the one I used to stick it in in because
I wanted to know what can I get from there
to there?
Speaker 5: It sounds very X files.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 1: It's you know, Andy is still there. I think I've
had a million views look at it because people use it.
They think where can I go this weekend? I want
to go somewhere where there's many UFO report so they'll
jump on me map and go, you know, like a Oxfordshire.
So since I spoke to in the conversation with a
lady for Wantach and she's near the old r AA
based there, which interests me because a lot of these
reports take place around old Ministry of Defense.
Speaker 4: One that's interesting.
Speaker 5: I usually I don't really support the BBC because it's
very old from our left Marxist nonsense. But in one
particular case, I have actually come across Uncanny, which actually
quite like, actually quite like. That's a good series and
uncann of USA. So they've got a US version, a
series four case for the Hairy Man. I just wondered
if you've seen it and what your reaction is on that.
Speaker 1: I actually did some research for the program. Yeah, yeah,
I do. People will hit me up because they know
I've got reports and they say, all right, you have
the looking at during a program in the UK. You know,
can you put us a few cases together that's worth
us coming over to look at? No I put them
in touch with a guy in Lincolnshire. He saw something
scarbig the area is and he actually drew it. I
love it when they draw it because I say, can
is any chance could draw what you saw? Or fire
with something online that looks like it. So I know
that they're doing a UK Wound episode. I'm not sure
when it's out though, yeah. Yeah, and the paranormalcart and
camera they're just about to do one. I've just done
the interview for that, so they'll they'll get me on
as an expert, or they'll get me on just to
to research. What else have you got in that areage?
You know, can you trace it back to the history.
It's a really enjoyable part of my job by absolutely,
but you know, so it gives me access to like
newspaper article that I wouldn't normally be able to stay,
you know, and it's fantastic to see people in the
UK finally come you fart and go well, actually I
saw it as well.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 4: It's literally about the military connection because like when I
was in Stairways the Stars, I met a chair American guy.
He talked about some encountering like a big foot like
creature near a military I remember because the name of
the military ration was Leminster. Now there's a place called
the arif Leminster here in the UK, and it's obviously
the American was named after the British town, as many
American towns are. There was as far as Oxfordshire goes,
there is a very famous site and actually just wh
which I actually visited the location off I made a
video about it in Bagley Woods, which is just to
the south of Oxford. We can actually walk to it
from where I am. Matthew Arnold in eighteen seventy seven
saw a big hairy creature there. Now's Matthew Arnold was
a famous like poet or writer who's from Yeah, and
it's and I remember he recorded he's walking to He's
walking to Boars Hill from Oxford and through the foot
it's now a proper road, but in those days he
was just a footpath. And he describes exactly what you saw,
the very same sort of thing as you saw deb
and many other people have seen as long as.
Speaker 1: You look, sorry but look a falconbre the the nineteen seventies,
people of serving soldiers have reported what they Eida Carl
had done. Monster the upright standing wolf on that base,
and each witness theres that that creature ran off to
the northwards, so it's took the same route each time.
One of them saw it while they run security duet
and he said it bounded the wild. He's definitely ara
and it screamed in his face. Another soldier said that
he saw it in the munitions and he said, I
was surrounded by weapons and it wouldn't have entered me
to shoot it. He was still shocked at seeing it.
Denny's Prebeth. He was parted and he spent months factor
driving around trying to find it.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: But now, yeah, now because of the MAC, I can say, right,
well there was a bear report there a mile and
a half away, we've got a standing wolf's report here.
What are they experiencing and is it connected to the base.
Are the military in the UK you enveloping these creatures
in any way shape off of trying to keep them
hidden in some way.
Speaker 4: There's an episode of Shell or Holmes about that was
quite interesting, and then they knew the modern version with
Benedict Cumberbatch. But Jelly, you're right, it's always wolf man
that you say it's something man. So it's wolf man,
ape man, mothman, owl lan, et cetera. And of course
the I don't know about it being developed by the
military as some kind of breeding, some kind of like
special creature, because they have they do have dogs which
are very fierce and like they use them on the battlefields,
you know, and to smell out the enemy as well.
They can they can smell where their hideouts are and
things like that, you know, and if one of the
if a prisoner of war escapes, they can track them down,
things like that. But as far as breeding special creatures,
and I don't know, and especially because these creatures have
been seen in areas like I mean, you mentioned the
wolf man. I mean, all you know about the Benton phenomena,
Paul Sinclair and what he's just the fact that Old Stinker,
this were wolf has been seen, which it's like a werewolf,
like a like anthroa, a big humanoid half wolf half man,
been seen near a hull several times for over one
hundred and fifty years. But it's it just turned up
again a couple of years ago. I remember, Old Sticker
is cool because it smells.
Speaker 1: Terrible if you don't know the area and you're our
current witnesses in the area. That's what you'll find. You'll
find the old sinker and the Beast of Baston Drain
and the Flickston werewolf. But if you look for about
salts Leak Marsh go up past thempton on each of
the areas where we have the raf basis. This is
where the report's come in in this wolf like creature.
Some people say they can see it, in the next
second they can't see it. And then you tie in
the two strange mystery men who went miss it. You
got Bowling Rustle Bowling. He went missing and had a
pen drive asking that base had been closed and concreted over.
He had a pen driver photographs from inside the bank.
Never been found, never been found. Another guy called Simon,
his car was found in the same car park at Bempton.
He's never been found. You get these hair you's de
find strangest party flerals himself. We get these areas panic chase,
lots of places in the UK where lots of activity
and it takes place. And then you start to look
at like Kai Green in Saffordshire. You've got the pigment
and then you've got you know, you've got like all
of the conversations of the old wat amegury that and
the things that people see that it's a never ending subject.
You get weeks out of it.
Speaker 5: Have you heard of the Hairy Man of cint Trinians,
which I thought was just this is the Naughty Girls? Yeah,
I thought it was. Yeah, I thought it was just
about the naughty girls. But apparently this is the Isle
of Man cint Trillions is an actual place.
Speaker 6: Been there, haven't you been?
Speaker 9: Oh?
Speaker 4: Yes, I went there for the first time in twenty
twenty three. Never been there before. It wasn't it was.
Speaker 6: Really never heard of that story.
Speaker 5: That's they call it the Finu Dairy, the Finis Dairy.
Speaker 6: About the black dog, it's known as murray Do.
Speaker 4: As far as someone's a black shuck in you see
in Norfolk, there's been somethings of this single black shuck,
which is yeah, one eyed dog, the same thing has
been seeing the isleman called murray Do. Yeah, it's very mean.
Speaker 5: This is very different. So this is the Finnodori and
it's described as a hairy human like entity thought to
possess great strength. Weirdly, on this particular page which I'm
going to drop in into chats so you guys can
have a look at it. It's also the article is
also linking it to the mowing Devil, which is near me.
So the mowing devil is the first ever alleged illustration
of a crop circle. It's actually more of an oval
and this was in Walkan in Hertfordshire, so that's a
stonefow away from me. And they didn't kind of put
it down to anything like Ufo Israelians because they didn't
have that vernacular in medieval times, because this is kind
of like fifteen hundreds, but the illustration shows what they
perceived to be a mowing devil carving an oval shape
what we might call a crop circle in a field.
And on the same page they're also kind of saying,
is this fedori from the centrinions of.
Speaker 4: The men?
Speaker 5: Are they kind of linked in some way which would
kind of like indicate perhaps this is this is a
phenomena that's all over the UK.
Speaker 1: I agree that doesn't have a strange report in it,
not a county in the UK. But unless she's colleting
them and put mar into one place, there's the hundreds
of witnesses out there, never spoke to each of them,
and I would imagine people out there who never shared
their story. Yeah, you know, it's been pet but in
the family where people are coming for with more. But
it is the big ask in the UK. I mean,
you know, it's a big ask to come out in
the UK and say that you've seen something that's seven
pile and looked like an I know. There was a
recent report.
Speaker 3: That I saw on truth Bruce of this guy that
used to live in high Wickhambe, which Ben and I
know and Andy knows as high wickm because I used
to run my paranormal meetup group there and this guy
in the seventies used to live there now is in
New Zealand, but he had an encountered what he cansidered
to be the green Man in her room.
Speaker 4: Because it's very old thing. Pubs called the green Man,
don't you And it's like.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was too Yeah I do.
Speaker 5: I do a lot of events, psychic events at green
Men pubs, human half plant.
Speaker 1: What I saw, though, Ben I saw, is that's the
lead I saw this and not how the green Man's predicted.
There's a case in bart very similar to the mine
in Yorkshire the same time period nineteen eight the young
girl fifteen wagging it from two was a friend and
they were playing on an old abandoned sewage works of
Alboos and she said that they noticed a man that
was laid down in the grass and he was using
the leads to her in his face. And she said
the second I saw him, a friend died what I
did and run in the opposite direction. She said, I
didn't feel any bit. I went to what towards it,
and it shook its head at man to say no,
don't come near me. And she described it is using
the twigs and leads almost to disguise itself, like a
natural camo kind of thing. You know, Can you imagine?
You know? Because now we've all got analytical adult brains,
we can go to as a listen and we can
try and work out what we've seen. Cower but a
young victim as I see it, and someone under the
age of sixteen. I don't think you're taking seriously anyway
because you're a teenager or you're you're a young kid,
but I I do. I listened to him because I
shouted from the rooftops. I just wanted to be able
to protrude people that I wasn't lying. I wasn't telling
a lie. That's what I started that day, and that's
the effect that it had on this. I think I
didn't take my children. Can I agree? What my parents
were traveling with the mortgage, so we would never We
were always out in the woods somewhere. My dad had fishing,
you know, without wash riding, whatever it was we would
do with And I stopped that at fifteen. That stuck
for me. I just refused to do it. I didn't
do it again until.
Speaker 3: Right I think we're drawing to a close here, folks,
So thank you Debra for taking part in our brief interview.
Thanks Ben and Andy for joining us once again. And Deborah,
as as we're drawing our close, where can people find
out more about you and the stuff you're researching?
Speaker 1: I made it really easy for folk. It's just deborherhaps Well.
So you bought debrahaps Well YouTube, will cop up debrahaps Well, faith,
I'll pop up. I thought it was the easiest way
to the people to find And if you want me
to come back on and tell you about me your
husband's UFO experience.
Speaker 3: Back on, I guess definitely we definitely would have you
back on later on.
Speaker 6: Either in this year or next year. That'd be fantastic.
Speaker 4: Spaking to us. Would we come speak? Yeah, that'd be
interesting to hear.
Speaker 3: Yeah cool, all right, lovely. Thank you very very much,
indeeded Deborah for joining us and sharing us some of
your stories. I know you've got plenty of more, and
if anyone's interested or wants to share some stories with us,
please do contact us at the Paranormal peep Show. And
so thank you once again to everybody for joining us.
That's Ben and Andy and Debra and myself Neil Ward
signing off on this edition of the Paranormal Peep Show
on the Paranormal UK Radio Network, and we'll see you
next month.
Speaker 9: Good night.
Speaker 1: We talked to me, all of them that made