Speaker 1: Oh better that are mm hm. Trigger warn This podcast
Speaker 1: may include explicit content that will take you out of
Speaker 1: your comfort zone and make you question reality.
Speaker 2: Listener's discretion is advised.
Speaker 3: M Hello, and welcome back to the show. We are
Speaker 3: back for part two of the what was their Name?
Speaker 3: Katy Coucci? It was like a color uh pink puss
Speaker 3: Teal Swan. Yep, we are back for the part two
Speaker 3: of Teal Swan. A lot more to talk about, a
Speaker 3: lot more to uncover with this, but before we do that,
Speaker 3: I don't have any stories for you today, but I
Speaker 3: have a couple of shout outs. I got one message
Speaker 3: from Tracy. I won't say your last name just for
Speaker 3: privacy purposes, but Tracy, I got your message. She went
Speaker 3: through the link tree like a good girl. That's how
Speaker 3: you're supposed to do it, so she said. I listened
Speaker 3: to your show religiously. I'm honored, thank you. I love
Speaker 3: your episodes on John Benney. I did stumble across a
Speaker 3: few TikTok videos about John Benney and Epstein. He had
Speaker 3: pictures of her in his apartment and one picture of
Speaker 3: Benet at a pageant and it had Maxwell in it.
Speaker 3: I thought you might want to look into it. If
Speaker 3: you hadn't already listen, I'm sure they were running train
Speaker 3: on her. They never would say who the elite type
Speaker 3: person was, who was at the White's family Christmas party
Speaker 3: that night. There was a nine to one one phone
Speaker 3: call placed. There was an elite guest at the White
Speaker 3: family Christmas party. It's never been disclosed to it is
Speaker 3: there was a nine to one one call that night.
Speaker 3: And then that's the night I think she died. I
Speaker 3: think she died at the Christmas party. And then they
Speaker 3: brought her body back home and called nine to one
Speaker 3: one again in the morning from the Ramsey home to
Speaker 3: stage this cleanup job. Because they knew her dead body
Speaker 3: was down in the basement, they planted it there from
Speaker 3: the night before died at the Christmas party. Now I
Speaker 3: got another email, Let's see if I can find it. It
Speaker 3: was very interesting. It was about Steven Spielberg. Yes, it's
Speaker 3: from the email. Is Man in the Mirror eighty five
Speaker 3: sent me an email, really really detailed email here about
Speaker 3: like Stargate SG one and Steven Spielberg, a lot of
Speaker 3: really cool stuff. I just wanted to let you know
Speaker 3: I did get your email. Thank you so much. Much
Speaker 3: for reaching out. I really appreciate it. I love hearing
Speaker 3: from you guys. You're my friends, You're my best piece,
Speaker 3: and we can keep it real with each other. Don't
Speaker 3: be afraid to send me email, ghost dot peach at
Speaker 3: outlook dot com, send me email, hit me up, you know,
Speaker 3: bark up my tree. Love to hear from you, guys,
Speaker 3: even if I can't get back to you right away,
Speaker 3: or if I give you a shout out and respond
Speaker 3: to you via episode like this, just know I love
Speaker 3: you and I see your messages coming through. Now that
Speaker 3: we're done with that part, we're gonna jump into part
Speaker 3: two of Teal Swan. I don't know how you guys
Speaker 3: are feeling so far with the first part, but damn
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff being revealed here. Let me share
Speaker 3: my shit.
Speaker 1: Sharon.
Speaker 3: Oh boy, here we go, Sharon. Sharon. Sharon had the sound.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, he's getting off on it like by
Speaker 1: this point.
Speaker 3: Uh oh, all right, people, if you're ready, I'm ready,
Speaker 3: let's get let's get to go and hang out.
Speaker 1: He had taken the knife and taken a huge slice
Speaker 1: of this guy's leg, off of his of his thigh
Speaker 1: muscle and was just chewing on it because he was
Speaker 1: cannabalistic as well, so he was chewing on this this rock.
Speaker 3: Don't forget. We left off with a dead ass, fucking
Speaker 3: corpse ass, carved up dead body with a full hit.
Speaker 3: He had an arrend, a dead erection on and she
Speaker 3: was made to have sex with the dead body and
Speaker 3: her keeper, her handler, whoever he is. This is what
Speaker 3: he's doing. He's having this little snack time, little dammer
Speaker 3: time and a little slim jerky action going on. And anyways,
Speaker 3: that's where we left off. That's where we're picking at.
Speaker 1: Oh he never cooked it, by the way. He was
Speaker 1: into raw stuff, so he would eat this piece of
Speaker 1: this raw leg. He was like enjoying it. You should
Speaker 1: have seen the look on his face. It was like
Speaker 1: he was for the first time feeling like this enthusiasm
Speaker 1: kind of. And so he's in his enthusiasm bubble watching
Speaker 1: me do all this stuff, and my reality is breaking
Speaker 1: and it didn't feel good. It's not like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is awesome. This means that not everything he's told
Speaker 1: me is true. It's like, wait a minute, my whole
Speaker 1: reality is falling down. If he's told me this and
Speaker 1: I didn't do it. What else has he told me?
Speaker 1: That's a lie? And that was the first time that
Speaker 1: I had ever conceptualized of the idea that I had
Speaker 1: a choice and that everything he said may not be true.
Speaker 1: So he had dug this enormous pit so as to
Speaker 1: not start a forest fire, this huge pit in the ground,
Speaker 1: and we threw the body in there and then burnt
Speaker 1: this body, which took forever. We're out there for a
Speaker 1: really long time, a lot of hours. He's in the
Speaker 1: same jovial mood, and I'm watching this body burn. And
Speaker 1: then he takes the big pieces afterwards, and he'll like
Speaker 1: throw them, you know, into the woods, and then the
Speaker 1: rest of the ashes he will gather and then give
Speaker 1: that back to the mortician. And it's like, I couldn't
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how bad that feeling is when
Speaker 1: your whole reality turns out to be a sort of
Speaker 1: upside down. I was not celebrating. I can tell you
Speaker 1: that I was like, I should come myself. But it
Speaker 1: was this weird impulse that happened internally where I was like,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't really thinking about it, I should just
Speaker 1: drive away. So I get down to the base of
Speaker 1: this trail after this whole scenario was over, and my
Speaker 1: car was there. He had had somebody drive it there.
Speaker 1: I got into the car and I drove and I
Speaker 1: didn't go home. I drove like three hours to sell
Speaker 1: Lake City, where I had met a boy who actually
Speaker 1: still works with me today, which is why this is
Speaker 1: such a cool sort of turnaround.
Speaker 4: But I had met this.
Speaker 1: Boy t two times before this point, cause I had
Speaker 1: no friends. I'm really and for some reason, I just
Speaker 1: felt like I could trust this guy, and it was
Speaker 1: the first time I ever felt that way. He was
Speaker 1: so innocent. I swear to God, it's like, you'll know
Speaker 1: if you meet him, and I'll probably introduce him to
Speaker 1: you guys one day if you want to meet him.
Speaker 1: But he's like the most innocent, amazingly sweet person ever,
Speaker 1: and some pardon me, thought I can use this to
Speaker 1: my advantage. I didn't realize that I would end up
Speaker 1: like loving him as a person the way that I do.
Speaker 1: At that point, it was like a survival. Survival mode
Speaker 1: was I can this guy can hide me, like I
Speaker 1: can use him right now because he's sweet, and because
Speaker 1: I don't know where else to go. So I drove
Speaker 1: to his house. Nobody was there, I broke in the window.
Speaker 1: He was living with two roommates going to college. And
Speaker 1: I went into the bathtub and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I should just get in the car and drive back home.
Speaker 4: No I can't, Yes I can't. No I can't, Yes
Speaker 4: I can't.
Speaker 1: I didn't know any other way to cope, and so
Speaker 1: I was like, I was feeling so guilty and so
Speaker 1: evil basically that I defaulted to what I do from
Speaker 1: the Blood Covenant group, which was if you want to
Speaker 1: find the light of Christ, just cut yourself, bleed and you.
Speaker 4: Can feel that. They tell you that cause like.
Speaker 1: The endorphit hit you get when you cut or you
Speaker 1: hurt yourself, They teach you that that is the light
Speaker 1: of Christ, that feeling that forgiveness. Basically, so I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I have to find that. And so I got a
Speaker 1: razor blade and I cut myself so bad. I was
Speaker 1: bleeding all over the tiles. It was like running down
Speaker 1: the bathroom drain. And when when my Blake says the
Speaker 1: name when he got home, that's what he walked up to,
Speaker 1: walks into his bathroom and just like a blood everywhere,
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh my god, you know, and typical
Speaker 1: he doesn't call anybody. He just cleans me up, feeds me,
Speaker 1: puts me in dead and then he's like, well, just
Speaker 1: don't go home. You just shouldn't go home. I'll just
Speaker 1: take care of you. And it's like he didn't really
Speaker 1: know the full story of what was going on at
Speaker 1: that point, but I was planning on going home still.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna go home whatever. But it was
Speaker 1: like the more that I was watching him take care
Speaker 1: of me, make me breakfast, I was feeling that sort
Speaker 1: of love and I didn't want to go back. One day,
Speaker 1: it came two days, Two days became three days, three
Speaker 1: days became four days, and then it was like after
Speaker 1: a while, I really had this that full urge of
Speaker 1: like I don't want to go back, and so it
Speaker 1: started turning into fear of going back, and then I
Speaker 1: just hid basically with him.
Speaker 2: Where should keeper now?
Speaker 1: I have no idea.
Speaker 2: Do you fear?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I would love to say no, I would love to
Speaker 1: say I've transcended that. No, I do. I fear more
Speaker 1: than anything because I have a kid now. So that's
Speaker 1: really what it's done me in I think.
Speaker 2: But you're very public about ye your story, Cause there's two.
Speaker 1: Ways to hide. See, at first, I didn't take this route.
Speaker 1: At first, I hid. I hid like crazy. I didn't
Speaker 1: tell anybody. I only got thrown into therapy because I
Speaker 1: literally got thrown into it by an ex boyfriend of
Speaker 1: mine who I was so like a typical abuse victim.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it wasn't okay to have sex
Speaker 1: with anyone, and I was like so traumatized that and
Speaker 1: like thinking that everyone around me kept people in the basement,
Speaker 1: that that was normal, that basically it was so difficult
Speaker 1: to be in a relationship with me. At that point
Speaker 1: that he gave me an ultimatum. He's like, this is
Speaker 1: not normal. What you're telling me happened to you, isn't okay.
Speaker 1: You need to go to therapy for that. I was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm totally fine. But I was so because
Speaker 1: I have, of course been programmed to not be able
Speaker 1: to take care of myself. You'll notice that my pattern
Speaker 1: throughout my life has been get with a man, Get
Speaker 1: with a man, get with a man. I don't even
Speaker 1: waste ten minutes between one relationship and the next, because
Speaker 1: my option of survival is that basically have a guy
Speaker 1: taking care of me. I took that approach basically, so
Speaker 1: the idea of being on my own for any amount
Speaker 1: of time was more terrifying than being in therapy. So
Speaker 1: he actually took me to the rape crisis center and
Speaker 1: he like it was a big scuffle actually because I
Speaker 1: was resisting him and he actually in Nann just took
Speaker 1: me and like threw me through the door. Now you
Speaker 1: can imagine how well that was received in a rape
Speaker 1: crisis center, which is full of super angry, like anti
Speaker 1: rapist people. What the hell is it?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was jump rising.
Speaker 1: So it's still kind of funny to this day that
Speaker 1: thinking back on that. But they like grabbed him, all
Speaker 1: of them and threw him up again, said well, they're
Speaker 1: sure that they're witnessing domestic abuse, right.
Speaker 2: He's like, she needs to be here.
Speaker 4: You take her in the back right now.
Speaker 1: So so the director of the rape crisis center takes
Speaker 1: me in the back of the room and is like
Speaker 1: why do you think he thinks you need to be here?
Speaker 1: And so I was like, well I and I started
Speaker 1: sort of telling her a little bit of stuff that
Speaker 1: went on with me, and I like I washed her
Speaker 1: face sort of. She was trying to be real professional,
Speaker 1: but I watched her face go from like interest to
Speaker 1: like white, and so she's like, this is I hope
Speaker 1: you understand that this is well beyond the capacity that
Speaker 1: we have at this particular center. This is not what
Speaker 1: we deal with. But I know somebody who does deal
Speaker 1: with this. And it was like that was the first time,
Speaker 1: by the way, that I had even conceptualized if the
Speaker 1: idea that what I went through wasn't normal and wasn't okay,
Speaker 1: and was maybe even really bad. Like if you're used
Speaker 1: to starving to death in Africa, that's normal for you.
Speaker 1: Like if you're used to being part of these groups,
Speaker 1: that's normal for you. So it's only when I watch
Speaker 1: the reactions on people's faces that I realized that this
Speaker 1: is like some other, like another level. So I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: you know, she's acting like this is really bad stuff
Speaker 1: that I went through. Maybe I do need therapy, and
Speaker 1: maybe it would be good if I could get some
Speaker 1: coping skills. So she she referred me actually to this
Speaker 1: woman who works in town who is a rape crisis
Speaker 1: or not a rape crisis. She's a trauma expert in
Speaker 1: ritual abuse.
Speaker 4: That's kind of upsetting.
Speaker 1: I mean, like all of us need to stop here
Speaker 1: for a minute and realize, like, if somebody can make
Speaker 1: their living and like honestly has to have patients referred
Speaker 1: to her, this is how over overflowed she is with clients.
Speaker 1: If that can be a specialty, does that tell you
Speaker 1: how many people in this particular area are suffering from
Speaker 1: this particular condition. So I ended up getting in with her,
Speaker 1: and to say the least, it was like completely life changing.
Speaker 1: And it didn't It didn't feel good at first because
Speaker 1: it's like it took me three years in therapy to
Speaker 1: admit that maybe he didn't do this because he loved me.
Speaker 1: So it's not like in therapy we were digging through
Speaker 1: all these suppressed memories. What it is is that I
Speaker 1: was unwilling to admit that that what he said wasn't
Speaker 1: true about his motive. And then it's like, you know
Speaker 1: a lot of people would like to say, oh, it
Speaker 1: probably felt good to be in therapy. No, it is
Speaker 1: the worst thing in the world. Why because when you're
Speaker 1: going through a specific experiment or experience, it's like you're
Speaker 1: in survival mode and all those chemicals take over and
Speaker 1: it's only in retrospect that things start getting as bad
Speaker 1: as they seem you know, when you have to revisit
Speaker 1: trauma is when it gets the worst.
Speaker 4: That's when I had to admit it's really not.
Speaker 1: That he was chasing you through what it's because he
Speaker 1: really loved you and wanted to make sure you could
Speaker 1: get away from people. You were getting chased by s
Speaker 1: a serial killer through the woods as a child. And
Speaker 1: it's like when you realize that and when you bite
Speaker 1: off that, you don't want to live, which is the
Speaker 1: reason that most of us as abuse victims. It's the
Speaker 1: reason I think that most of us buy into the
Speaker 1: ideas that were sold by these groups so much, just
Speaker 1: because if you don't, you're gonna die. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: a survival strategy. If I if I tell you I'm
Speaker 1: doing this because I love you, you had better believe
Speaker 1: that because the alternative is so bad you can't live
Speaker 1: through it. So I had done that. It was like
Speaker 1: I was letting go of the very thing which enabled
Speaker 1: me to survive that whole situation. In admitting that, it
Speaker 1: admitting the truth about what was really going on, instead
Speaker 1: of thinking, no, really, it's all for my own good.
Speaker 1: So that was the worst thing in the entire world.
Speaker 1: But I did start piecing my world back together again.
Speaker 1: And after about I think two or three years of therapy,
Speaker 1: I was allowed to go into group therapy where I
Speaker 1: got to meet other women. And I will never forget
Speaker 1: the day that I first walked in and it was
Speaker 1: a group of I think like five or six women,
Speaker 1: and the one who was sitting right over to my
Speaker 1: left side, when I walked through the door, both of
Speaker 1: us started crying because she and I had met each
Speaker 1: other at a at a Satanic mass, so we had
Speaker 1: both gotten out of the same scenario and meeting each
Speaker 1: other was just like it was so therapeutic and it
Speaker 1: was like amazing to meet these women who had gone
Speaker 1: through the same kind of stuff as me, and I
Speaker 1: developed like a serious attachment to them. But I don't
Speaker 1: talk to them today. Why Because I went public. I
Speaker 1: served the reality of my life and I wasn't planning
Speaker 1: on doing this, I might add. So I was going
Speaker 1: through therapy and when I started talking about ritual child
Speaker 1: sacrifices and stuff like that, where it turns into murder,
Speaker 1: they legally have to tell someone. So basically I was
Speaker 1: put in an ultimatum scenario by my therapist who said,
Speaker 1: either I'm gonna tell the cops, or you'd have to
Speaker 1: tell the cops because this is what we have to do.
Speaker 1: It's my job. And so I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess I'm gonna do it. Then, so
Speaker 1: she called up the chief of police in the area
Speaker 1: that I grew up in. Now it's a it's a
Speaker 1: really enormous issue of a case basically because technically, unless
Speaker 1: the FBI has control of a case, each individual report
Speaker 1: has to be reported with the state that happened in.
Speaker 1: So if you've got a group like this that operates
Speaker 1: in multiple states, then it's like not one person, one organization.
Speaker 1: The government can't get together and do all of it
Speaker 1: at once, right. So and then it's another issue too
Speaker 1: because they want exact dates, and I'm it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: if I said to you, do you what's the worst
Speaker 1: memory you have from your childhood and like say that
Speaker 1: it's say that it's like when some kid kicked you
Speaker 1: with a soccer ball or something, And I said, what
Speaker 1: exact day did it happen on?
Speaker 4: Could you tell me that? Most people couldn't.
Speaker 1: So they're they're expecting things of of me that I
Speaker 1: honestly can't do. I can tell you roughly what age
Speaker 1: I was based on reference points like what teacher I
Speaker 1: remember going to or you know, something like that, but
Speaker 1: the exact dates. Unless I know the exact date, which
Speaker 1: I do, sometimes it's difficult to report on. So basically,
Speaker 1: the chief of police came back and sat down with
Speaker 1: me and I for three hours. I recounted as much
Speaker 1: as I could remember dates for and things for, and yeah,
Speaker 1: he looked about as dramatized as ever. After I ended
Speaker 1: up saying what I said, and he went back, and
Speaker 1: this big case was opened, and I spent a while there.
Speaker 1: For a few I was getting crime victims reparation money,
Speaker 1: and I spent a while there like reporting to them.
Speaker 4: They would film me.
Speaker 1: While I would talk about what had happened, specific incidents
Speaker 1: that they would want to know about, looking at mug shots,
Speaker 1: looking at missing pictures of children, things like that. And
Speaker 1: then they decided in the end that despite the amount
Speaker 1: of evidence that I had, which is actually a lot
Speaker 1: more than most people escape with in my scenario because
Speaker 1: of the time lapse and the fact that they're really
Speaker 1: good at covering their tracks, I had escaped with a
Speaker 1: pair of jeans I was raped in.
Speaker 4: I had escaped with a human.
Speaker 1: Tooth that I took from a sacrifice, and I gave
Speaker 1: all this to them. So despite all of that and
Speaker 1: the scars which they did scar mapping on my body
Speaker 1: and everything, the case was handled over the district attorney.
Speaker 1: The district attorney gets to decide whether they have enough
Speaker 1: tangible evidence to prosecute. See, most people don't understand that
Speaker 1: hearsay is not enough reason to prosecute someone, and it's
Speaker 1: not even enough reason for a search warrant. And it
Speaker 1: makes sense when you think about it, Like if you're
Speaker 1: my neighbor and I say you've got bodies buried in
Speaker 1: the backyard.
Speaker 3: I listen. Whatever point she's about to make right now,
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's a good one. But most of the time,
Speaker 3: district attorneys are not your friends. Okay, the people in
Speaker 3: the area who be a part of this shit cover
Speaker 3: it up and bury it. The district attorney for the
Speaker 3: John Benet case was a pe shit and then went
Speaker 3: on to work for John Ramsey. There's been many a
Speaker 3: district attorney. The district attorney in the Minton does Brother's case. Okay,
Speaker 3: they are not your friend, and they're probably probably involved
Speaker 3: with this stuff. Like she's got if this is real. Okay,
Speaker 3: this is true. She's got teeth, she's got shit, Okay,
Speaker 3: this ain't. No, oh, my neighbor's got body's buried in
Speaker 3: the backyard like the burbs or some shit. No, she's
Speaker 3: got artifacts from the rituals that she can present. And
Speaker 3: yet well the district attorney no, fuck that. Okay, the
Speaker 3: district attorney is probably in on it.
Speaker 1: But anyways, I could do that just to piss you off,
Speaker 1: just to make the cops come over to your house.
Speaker 1: So just one person saying something is not enough for that,
Speaker 1: as we saw with the recent case where there's like
Speaker 1: all the girls being kept in the backyard and the
Speaker 1: cops were sent to the house and they didn't even
Speaker 1: go in the backyard, so it wasn't Basically, the district
Speaker 1: attorney made the executive decision to keep the case cold,
Speaker 1: where basically it's not like it's closed, it's open, but
Speaker 1: it's waiting for further evidence or waiting for further people
Speaker 1: to come forward. Essentially, where is this case at. I
Speaker 1: think they're keeping it in a North Logan police department.
Speaker 6: Okay, and how do you how does it feel that,
Speaker 6: I mean, you have all this, you know, all this happened.
Speaker 6: You have all these stories. The police chief obviously believes you.
Speaker 6: You mean, but how does it make you feel to
Speaker 6: not be able to have a prosecution, that they can't
Speaker 6: go after these people?
Speaker 5: I go.
Speaker 1: I go back and forth with that, because see, if
Speaker 1: anybody knows what I've done basically since the cause the beginning.
Speaker 1: In the beginning, I was hiding, right and I didn't
Speaker 1: want anyone to know. I mean, if you if you
Speaker 1: look at my driver's license, it'll send you to a
Speaker 1: police department. Like I didn't want anyone to know where
Speaker 1: I was at all. I was scared to be in
Speaker 1: the state, but couldn't leave the state because of programming
Speaker 1: to not leave the state right now.
Speaker 4: I kind of had this flip happen.
Speaker 1: In me because I I've started I at first, I
Speaker 1: wanted nothing to do with my abilities either. I was
Speaker 1: in professional sports, That's what I wanted to do. Just
Speaker 1: anything that would get me grounded in the physical and
Speaker 1: I don't want anything to do with this kind of
Speaker 1: ethereal crap. So I was in massive resistance to that,
Speaker 1: but it was like not going away. So at at
Speaker 1: a certain point in my healing process, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I have to I can't like live this
Speaker 1: way in resistance to an aspect of my being forever.
Speaker 1: So I started opening back up to this sort of
Speaker 1: spirituality thing, and I started seeing clients individually for just
Speaker 1: health issues.
Speaker 4: At that time.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like mental issues. They're always into related. But
Speaker 1: I would see people who had like cancer, or I'd
Speaker 1: see people who had gastritis or you know, a broken
Speaker 1: limb or something like that, and I would do healing
Speaker 1: sessions with them. And it occurred to me that a
Speaker 1: lot of the things that I was saying, you know that,
Speaker 1: it occurred to me that at first of all, coming
Speaker 1: through an experience like that, you learn a lot, Like
Speaker 1: I actually went through an enlightenment experience. When I was
Speaker 1: stuck in this hole in the ground. He used to
Speaker 1: keep me in it buy side his backguard. He used
Speaker 1: to line it with stinging netal and keep me down
Speaker 1: in there for hours a time. So I feel like
Speaker 1: it's a lot of what I learned coming through that
Speaker 1: experience that made it so that I know these sort
Speaker 1: of larger truths, I guess. So I started helping people
Speaker 1: with those things, sort of like an amount of wisdom
Speaker 1: comes out of suffering. So I started to notice that
Speaker 1: making a difference in people, and so I started thinking
Speaker 1: about it and I was like, you know, this way
Speaker 1: of living is not a way to live at all.
Speaker 1: Because when I started going through the process with the
Speaker 1: with the with the police, I started getting death threat
Speaker 1: letters and the police department saw like city actually has those,
Speaker 1: because that's who I took them to. They were unmarked
Speaker 1: letters with specific trigger words, and it was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, what, is this gonna be my life? That's
Speaker 1: sort of the question I had to ask, Is this
Speaker 1: gonna be my entire life where I'm just hiding and
Speaker 1: I'm ashamed of myself really, because that's the attitude that
Speaker 1: most of society takes about people like me, is that
Speaker 1: were damaged goods, Like no guy should date a girl?
Speaker 4: Is that complicated? Why would you ever want to do that?
Speaker 4: So it just became not okay.
Speaker 1: Basically, after a while, I was like, Hey, this is
Speaker 1: not okay that women let me are traded this way,
Speaker 1: be this is not a way live, this hiding. And
Speaker 1: so it's occurred to me basically that there are two
Speaker 1: ways to hide. The first is to go incognito and
Speaker 1: try to escape and run the rest of your life,
Speaker 1: the seconds to become so in the public eye that
Speaker 1: they it's very difficult to have you disappear without somebody
Speaker 1: figuring out where you've gone, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: So I was like, that's probably a better idea.
Speaker 1: Not only that I'm sort of sick of it. I
Speaker 1: would sit there in these groups with these women, some
Speaker 1: of them were forty fifty, and I'm watching them have
Speaker 1: the same issues as ever before. One of them got
Speaker 1: triggered and almost killed her whole family, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: if this is the best that we're looking at for
Speaker 1: people who have come out of scenarios this bad is,
Speaker 1: you know, people who are terrified for the rest of
Speaker 1: their life, people who are always looking over their shoulder.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna work for me. And it's not gonna
Speaker 1: work for me to buy this thing too, where all
Speaker 1: of them are like, don't tell anybody, We don't want
Speaker 1: anybody to know, you know, and that's.
Speaker 4: The status quo. And I like, at this point, I
Speaker 4: was like, I'm kind of.
Speaker 1: A ballsy person, So I was like, that's not gonna
Speaker 1: work for me anymore. To watch these women, not just myself,
Speaker 1: act like it's okay to not say anything about this crap.
Speaker 1: That's exactly why these little girls still get taken. So
Speaker 1: it was sort of like it became this philanthropic thing
Speaker 1: for me, which is always a self centered thing to
Speaker 1: some degree, but I was like, you know, if there's
Speaker 1: like a six year old out there that this is
Speaker 1: still happening too, I won't forgive myself unless I say something.
Speaker 1: That's sort of where I went.
Speaker 2: So I just.
Speaker 1: Decided to basically be the poster child for ritual abuse.
Speaker 1: I was like, if nobody else wants to talk about
Speaker 1: this stuff, I'll talk about it. Fine, I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you that this stuff exists. If you don't want to
Speaker 1: believe that is is this, then you're part of the problem.
Speaker 6: It kind of leads me to my next question, is
Speaker 6: there are people out there who don't believe this exist.
Speaker 6: There's gonna be people that watch our story that are
Speaker 6: gonna be like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 4: She's crazy. I know I've seen them. I did that interviews.
Speaker 4: This is what's really frustrated me.
Speaker 1: It's like, honestly, and this is the case with any
Speaker 1: kind of abuse situation, the perpetrator asks nothing from you.
Speaker 1: You can disbelieve what the victim says, and you can
Speaker 1: go back to living your life, believe in that reality
Speaker 1: is one way, and it can be safe, and it
Speaker 1: can feel good, and you don't have to worry about
Speaker 1: your nine year old daughter getting taken and murdered. Now,
Speaker 1: when you signed with a victim and you believe a
Speaker 1: story that somebody has said, like me, it puts people
Speaker 1: in a moral dilemma. I'm essentially asking people to rewrite
Speaker 1: their entire version of reality. Now. I understand, of course,
Speaker 1: being in the position that I'm in today being a
Speaker 1: self help expert, if you will, how difficult it is
Speaker 1: for people to rewrite their realities. So of course I'm
Speaker 1: gonna run into a serious amount of backlash from people
Speaker 1: who do not want to believe that this is possible.
Speaker 1: It's a lot easier to look at someone like me
Speaker 1: and say this stuff can't possibly exist, because then I
Speaker 1: get to live in a safe world, and to say,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is a super dangerous, messed up world,
Speaker 1: which is where people go and they hear stories like this.
Speaker 1: So yeah, a lot of people aren't gonna believe. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've done interviews before that I regret where it's like,
Speaker 1: I've talked to people who I thought would give a
Speaker 1: sort of rational overlook of the fact that this ritual
Speaker 1: stuff is happening and is happening in our communities, and
Speaker 1: it's turned exactly the opposite way, but you know, it's
Speaker 1: actually been.
Speaker 4: I feel like people are ready for it.
Speaker 1: No, Like, for example, I did an interview with the
Speaker 1: Herald Journal, which is the local newspaper in Logan, Utah,
Speaker 1: and the editor really messed up with the piece. I'll
Speaker 1: just tell you that basically, and he sparked a major
Speaker 1: controvert the town, which twe degree is good because it
Speaker 1: got people questioning. The major controversy was that people looked
Speaker 1: at that story and some of them are like, why okay,
Speaker 1: this is not okay that you're canvassing a totally mentally
Speaker 1: ill woman. So they were the ones that didn't believe,
Speaker 1: but then were mad at him because he made a
Speaker 1: spectacle of someone who's so obviously mentally ill that they
Speaker 1: could believe this would happen to them. The whole other side, though,
Speaker 1: which was interesting, came out and they would not let
Speaker 1: it go. Of therapists in that particular town who are saying, no,
Speaker 1: I get about ten stories a month exactly like this
Speaker 1: to the tea. So we're unwilling to buy your story
Speaker 1: that this is just a story because I'm hearing the
Speaker 1: same thing in this town. And then other people write
Speaker 1: in and saying, this is my childhood. I grew up
Speaker 1: in this type of occult, and I'm like, not brave
Speaker 1: enough to come forward, but this stuff does happen. And
Speaker 1: so it was like that particular newspaper got just inundated
Speaker 1: with this wow, super two sided type of reality from
Speaker 1: the public of saying, oh my gosh. You know a
Speaker 1: lot of people do know this is going on and
Speaker 1: just don't know what the hell to do about it.
Speaker 1: So I feel like, what's been interesting for me watching
Speaker 1: I don't watch, I try not to watch the news,
Speaker 1: but catching wind of the fact that this is actually
Speaker 1: coming more into the public view.
Speaker 4: I mean, you've got.
Speaker 1: How many girls in the past two years have just
Speaker 1: randomly come strolling out of basements that they've been kept
Speaker 1: in for years. It's like the public eyes are starting
Speaker 1: to open to the idea that this kind of stuff
Speaker 1: does actually go on. So I feel like we're actually
Speaker 1: more ready than ever before, and I feel like that's
Speaker 1: really good for people in my position who are have
Speaker 1: been victimized by these particular groups to not have to
Speaker 1: cower and not have to be in a state of
Speaker 1: shame forever.
Speaker 6: You talked a little bit about more cases coming out.
Speaker 6: I actually was in Ohio when Gina Dejesu, Samanda Barry
Speaker 6: were all rescued.
Speaker 3: And listen, I don't know what she's about to say
Speaker 3: about this, but I used to stroll the neighborhood where
Speaker 3: that dude kept all them bitches in the basement in Cleveland,
Speaker 3: Like that's the really shit. Okay. I don't know if
Speaker 3: he was into SIRA or not, or he was just
Speaker 3: a weird fucking psycho that liked to keep bitches in
Speaker 3: his basement and getting pregnant. Anyways, the thing I was
Speaker 3: gonna say, she was talking about these women they're getting
Speaker 3: triggered and they almost killed their whole family, or she
Speaker 3: was getting death threats, letters with trigger words in him.
Speaker 3: And I'm sitting here thinking, like it's so it's like
Speaker 3: vernacular now pop culture to be triggered. I'm triggered, triggered, triggered, triggered.
Speaker 3: There's actually a really good song called triggered anyways. That
Speaker 3: almost makes me think it's almost like with the other
Speaker 3: desensitizing shit about these people coming forward and telling their story,
Speaker 3: and you hear it over and over and over again
Speaker 3: to the point where you're like, Okay, yeah, they.
Speaker 2: Raped the babies.
Speaker 4: They the babies, they did the.
Speaker 3: Whatever, and they they chopped up the bodies and then
Speaker 3: they raped the pieces and then they and like at
Speaker 3: some point, as a conspiracy theorist, you're like, okay, we've
Speaker 3: heard this one before and using the word now just
Speaker 3: to be like, Oh, I went to Starbucks today and
Speaker 3: I was so triggered. They were out of my shit.
Speaker 3: They made my drink wrong, they did this, they did that.
Speaker 1: I was so triggered.
Speaker 3: It's like they have included this stuff in like the
Speaker 3: daily uh, Like it's just normal, Like Epstein files are
Speaker 3: getting out and everybody's triggered, right, and everybody's this and
Speaker 3: everybody like it's just become part of our vernacular to
Speaker 3: say and see and hear these things. I'm triggered. Oh
Speaker 3: did you hear about Epstein and the pedophiles and the
Speaker 3: this and then that? If you would have said these things,
Speaker 3: like I don't know, six seven, eight years ago, people
Speaker 3: would have thought people would have their skin would be crawling, okay,
Speaker 3: because it would be such a horrific thought to think
Speaker 3: that this stuff was going on. And now you have
Speaker 3: people just like at the grocery store and shit talking
Speaker 3: in front of you in the line. Oh yeah, did
Speaker 3: you hear about that Epstein stuff? And the Epstein and
Speaker 3: the Epstein and the this and the It's like the
Speaker 3: general public is talking about this stuff. Okay, talk about
Speaker 3: trigger hello, But anyways, I just wanted to throw that
Speaker 3: out there. And by the way, if you're one of
Speaker 3: those douchebags, and if you are, I still love you
Speaker 3: if you listen to my show, but please consider not
Speaker 3: doing this. You tell people that they're triggering you or
Speaker 3: you're getting triggered.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: If you've lived through some shit like this where you've
Speaker 3: had to fuck a dead corpse ass, fucked up dead
Speaker 3: body that's all carved up with a dick on hard, okay,
Speaker 3: you can say you get triggered by stuff, okay. But
Speaker 3: if your boyfriend or your husband didn't take out the
Speaker 3: trash and that really got on your nerves, you're not triggered, honey,
Speaker 3: you pissed off. Okay. And if I'm not even gonna
Speaker 3: go there with men, if there's men out there saying
Speaker 3: that they're getting triggered. Just click out of this podcast.
Speaker 3: That's a little too fin for me. I don't like
Speaker 3: it at all. See now I'm triggered just thinking about it.
Speaker 3: Some dude walking around out there going I'm triggered. I'm triggered.
Speaker 3: Just stop, just stop stop, or I'm gonna trigger you,
Speaker 3: and it's gonna be a different kind of trigger. Trigger warning. Okay,
Speaker 3: this podcast does not cater to delicate sensibilities. So anyways,
Speaker 3: let's get back into the interview.
Speaker 6: Obviously, it's not to the magnitude of your case of
Speaker 6: what at least we haven't heard that. It was to
Speaker 6: the magnitude of your your situation where you were abused.
Speaker 2: But things like that.
Speaker 6: Do you think things like that are helping? Like those
Speaker 6: types of cases smart case.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, I gotta tell you, And
Speaker 1: it's an interesting reaction, and I know it's a reaction
Speaker 1: a lot of us have to get out of the groups.
Speaker 1: It's like we watch, we watch these and it's like
Speaker 1: some part of us is set free when those women
Speaker 1: come forward and we're like, oh, thank god, but another
Speaker 1: part of.
Speaker 4: Us is intensely jealous.
Speaker 1: It was the most interesting reaction I watched in myself
Speaker 1: to the Elizabeth Smart case because I was just like,
Speaker 1: first of all, I was so angry because the amount
Speaker 1: of money she had. You know, that's the only reason
Speaker 1: they won gave as yet.
Speaker 4: That she disappeared.
Speaker 1: Right, Let's just be honest, because I mean, if you're
Speaker 1: like a little little foster kid, nobody's gonna put your
Speaker 1: face anywhere. You're not gonna be in multiple states much
Speaker 1: less you're lucky to be in one city, like on
Speaker 1: on a gas station window or something. So on one hand,
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, yes, thank God's like,
Speaker 1: you know, this stuff is in the public news, and
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I hate her. I hate
Speaker 1: her because there's so much attention. I hate her because
Speaker 1: she's glorified. I hate her because you know, the read
Speaker 1: I fear her is now that she's got her unteenth book,
Speaker 1: is that people are you know, that she's releasing this
Speaker 1: kind of major that she's set for rest of her
Speaker 1: life because people know about it, and the majority of
Speaker 1: us are like struggling, I mean really struggling. I'm doing
Speaker 1: pretty good. Majority of people who get out of this
Speaker 1: scenarios which are I mean for life, they're.
Speaker 4: Damaged for life.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I was just, I just it's a really
Speaker 1: interesting reaction to have. But in answer to your question, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's helping. I think with every single case
Speaker 1: that we see coming out with this, people are more
Speaker 1: forced to accept the reality that this stuff occurs, instead
Speaker 1: of just discrediting every single one of us, which has
Speaker 1: been the status.
Speaker 4: Quo for so long.
Speaker 1: It's really easy to write us off and say we're
Speaker 1: mentally ill.
Speaker 6: Is this your coping mechanism talking and sharing your story
Speaker 6: or how are you coping today? I mean, because you obviously,
Speaker 6: I mean, you relive this every day. It's not something
Speaker 6: that you wake up and it's miraculously gone.
Speaker 4: I wish it was some time.
Speaker 6: I mean, you've spent what thirteen years of your life,
Speaker 6: sixteen years of your life living as hell.
Speaker 1: Yes, and now eleven years trying to get over it.
Speaker 4: My coping skills.
Speaker 1: I've surrounded myself with really good people who have been
Speaker 1: rehabilitating me. I think that's the real story. The real
Speaker 1: story is if you've been hurt so bad, your only
Speaker 1: option of figuring out that it's possible to be treated
Speaker 1: differently is to find people to treat you differently. And
Speaker 1: I got really lucky that way, and I also I
Speaker 1: don't take a passive approach to my life. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, super intell They pick these groups profile for
Speaker 1: very intelligent people, and it's like, on one hand that
Speaker 1: worked against me on this sand, they can work for
Speaker 1: me because I can now really take an active role
Speaker 1: in my own healing. So I'm really involved in in
Speaker 1: like spirituality, super involved in self help. I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: shadow work. Like you know, probing around in my subconscious
Speaker 1: is an obsession of mine and I I I I
Speaker 1: also buy into a lot of the philosophies that you
Speaker 1: can change your reality if you change your mindset. So
Speaker 1: having ev even if you don't believe in that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, just what it feels like to know that
Speaker 1: you might have some kind of say in the way
Speaker 1: your life goes based on how you're thinking is enough
Speaker 1: empowerment to at least make some of us feel better.
Speaker 1: So I do that kind of stuff on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: I write gratitude journals. But what I'm happy about in
Speaker 1: my life, I just try to basically follow my bliss
Speaker 1: and it's worked because focusing on being damaged for the
Speaker 1: rest of my life is not gonna get me anywhere,
Speaker 1: but more damaged.
Speaker 2: I guess where are your parents now?
Speaker 1: They actually live down in southern Utah.
Speaker 2: Do you have any contact with them?
Speaker 1: Very little? That's sort of what I'm the most sad about,
Speaker 1: is that our relationship is completely deteriorated.
Speaker 2: Is it because of the situation?
Speaker 1: Yep?
Speaker 6: I mean obviously you didn't have You said you didn't
Speaker 6: have a good relationship with your parents growing up, and
Speaker 6: that was something that attracted your keeper to you. Yes,
Speaker 6: do you ever think that your pa? Do your parents
Speaker 6: believe you and what happened?
Speaker 1: They believe something happened because it's undeniable, and they know
Speaker 1: that the man my keeper was the one who did it,
Speaker 1: But they don't believe all of my story because if
Speaker 1: they accept that all of it happened, then they have
Speaker 1: to accept that they really crappy parents, and they are
Speaker 1: unwilling to do that obviously, because I mean, my parents
Speaker 1: are not horrific people. If they would have known this
Speaker 1: stuff was going on, if they would have known that
Speaker 1: I was coming home hurt because he hurt me, not
Speaker 1: because of a horse fall, or you know, knew that
Speaker 1: I was writing really sadistic, horrific poetry in grade school
Speaker 1: because I was being hurt, not because I was just
Speaker 1: sensitive and depressed.
Speaker 4: They would have stopped it.
Speaker 1: They missed every red flag basically, And because they missed
Speaker 1: every red flag, their reality of my life and my
Speaker 1: reality of my life is entirely different. So there can
Speaker 1: be no so far, no reconciliation between my parents' version
Speaker 1: of my childhood and what I'm saying happened in my childhood.
Speaker 1: And the real reason I'm not talking to my parents
Speaker 1: right now is not because of what happened. I could
Speaker 1: forgive them any day for what happened before. I could,
Speaker 1: like today, if they walked through the door and said,
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna acknowledge that all of the stuff
Speaker 1: that you say happened to happen, let's find healing out it. Fine,
Speaker 1: I let them off the hook immediately for everything, you know.
Speaker 1: But what the reality is that I don't talk to
Speaker 1: them because of the fact that there's a rift between
Speaker 1: what they're willing to accept happened to me and what
Speaker 1: they are unwilling to own up to basically about the past.
Speaker 1: And that's happening in real time. So yeah, like this
Speaker 1: has destroyed every aspect of my family life as well,
Speaker 1: which was a huge shock to me. I'll tell you
Speaker 1: that because when I got away from the group, figured
Speaker 1: I would tell my parents and everybody around me what
Speaker 1: would happen, and I'd be welcomed with like open arms.
Speaker 1: I was not even remotely prepared for people to discount
Speaker 1: that I went through what I'm saying that I went through.
Speaker 4: But this is a typical story.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like one of eight billion women who
Speaker 1: experienced this exact same thing. Where when we try to
Speaker 1: say hey mom, you know like it's usually incest where
Speaker 1: this happens, but it's like other cases as well. A
Speaker 1: little girl says, hey mom, dad, was you know having
Speaker 1: sex with me at night all the way growing up?
Speaker 4: She's like, no, you were just imagining that.
Speaker 1: Most of your family's going to react that way too,
Speaker 1: So it's like a whole other level of pain for
Speaker 1: us is that we're not It's like the story is
Speaker 1: not welcomed. I'm like lucky that my parents will admit
Speaker 1: that for sure, there aboose going on. They'll admit to
Speaker 1: everything that happened in my teen years. It's just those
Speaker 1: years when I was really young, when they felt like
Speaker 1: they were trying to be good parents and weren't aware
Speaker 1: that he was taking me out of my bed, weren't
Speaker 1: aware that he was taking me out of school. It's
Speaker 1: really hard for them to like even go to the
Speaker 1: place where they might have put me in a school
Speaker 1: that would just be fine, like sending me off with
Speaker 1: someone random.
Speaker 6: Your case is a little bit different in the fact
Speaker 6: that you still were living with your parents. He was
Speaker 6: taking you out of your home, out of school. He
Speaker 6: was doing this right under the nose of your parents
Speaker 6: when he loved that, which they don't. Which most cases,
Speaker 6: as you said, aren't like that. Most cases are the
Speaker 6: child becomes abducted, they become a missing child, and then
Speaker 6: they're never heard from again, if.
Speaker 1: Or they're born into the groups under someone.
Speaker 6: Sure, if you're a parent, If a parent is watching
Speaker 6: this and their child might be going through this in
Speaker 6: a similar situation to you, where it's happening right under
Speaker 6: their nose, their child is still living with them, still
Speaker 6: coming home, what sort of red flag should they be
Speaker 6: looking for?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, how does a parent know? And what
Speaker 2: should a parent do?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: Instead of me saying what a parent do, it's sort
Speaker 1: of like what a parent shouldn't do. The only way
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna I'm not gonna sugar go you. These
Speaker 1: people will not target healthy families. They target unhealthy families.
Speaker 1: So they are only going to target children who are
Speaker 1: to some degree isolated from the rest of the group. Now,
Speaker 1: that isolation can be a physical one, like we see
Speaker 1: where where a parent has to work so much that
Speaker 1: their kids like meandering around after hours, or it can
Speaker 1: be like in my case, an emotional rift between parents
Speaker 1: and child, which makes the the you know, they can
Speaker 1: feel that in the second perpetrators can. So what I
Speaker 1: would say is, don't create the conditions in the first
Speaker 1: place for that to happen. If you have a kid
Speaker 1: you don't relate to, then really you got to try
Speaker 1: to relate to them. Most parents don't really try to
Speaker 1: understand their children because to do that they sometimes have
Speaker 1: to admit that they're doing something wrong. And most parents
Speaker 1: are like a lot more interested in defending the idea
Speaker 1: that they're good parents than opening themselves up to the
Speaker 1: possibility that they're creating a condition which is.
Speaker 4: Painful for the child.
Speaker 1: Right, So I would say, like, the closer you can
Speaker 1: be to your children, the more that you can talk
Speaker 1: to them and understand them specifically, and the earlier you
Speaker 1: could talk to them about what's appropriate versus not appropriate,
Speaker 1: the better. I mean, my parents talked to me about
Speaker 1: sex when I was nine, ten eleven, and I had
Speaker 1: already been being raped for like four years, so it's
Speaker 1: a little too late. So I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: if we're doing the right thing, it's that we're making
Speaker 1: the preparatory things. We're doing the preparatory things correctly instead
Speaker 1: of like remedying the situation after it's already occurred. Major
Speaker 1: red flags for abuse. Cutting is a huge one. Self
Speaker 1: abuse is like any kind of self abuse, not just
Speaker 1: cutting is a huge red flag for abuse.
Speaker 4: Another good one.
Speaker 1: Would be like dissociative states. Kids who are getting abused
Speaker 1: tend to have a very difficult time with staying in reality.
Speaker 1: They have an issue focusing or they may be so
Speaker 1: hyper focused. That's another thing that they do to try
Speaker 1: to cope is they'll like hyper focus on something and
Speaker 1: they won't want to watch you or listen to you.
Speaker 1: It's almost like an autistic type of behavior. Another thing
Speaker 1: is they'll have frequent especially girls if they're getting sexual abused,
Speaker 1: that you're gonna see lots and lots of urinary tract infections,
Speaker 1: their immune system is gonna get targeted first. They'll have
Speaker 1: a lot of weird sicknesses. Headaches they are a super
Speaker 1: common one too. The kids will just have unexplicable headaches
Speaker 1: all the time, and that's another big tip off there too.
Speaker 1: You'll see this like measure withdrawal and sort of sadness
Speaker 1: happen in them. You know, it's gotten to the point
Speaker 1: it's difficult for me. Of course, you could probably look
Speaker 1: up like lots of signs to your kids getting abused somewhere,
Speaker 1: But from the same point as somebody who's in my position,
Speaker 1: where I've been in that scenario and I've been around it,
Speaker 1: I can recognize it in ten seconds. You can feel
Speaker 1: it on people when they've been hurt by someone you know.
Speaker 1: And I think the issue too with parents is what
Speaker 1: I would say is don't latch onto the idea that
Speaker 1: you know everything about the people that you are spending
Speaker 1: time with, like friends and family members, because sometimes we
Speaker 1: are so addicted to buying into a facade that means
Speaker 1: our family's wonderful and family is everything that we can't
Speaker 1: recognize when the uncle's doing something, or when the dad
Speaker 1: is doing something, or when the aunt is doing something,
Speaker 1: or when the sister or sister in law is doing something.
Speaker 1: So I think that for a lot of us, it's
Speaker 1: the fact that we have this addiction to maintaining an
Speaker 1: idea which makes us feel.
Speaker 4: Good that we have closed our eyes to.
Speaker 1: The ability to even see these things going on in
Speaker 1: the first place. So what I would say to people
Speaker 1: is be willing to question everything you think.
Speaker 4: I guess.
Speaker 1: You got to really be open otherwise you're not gonna
Speaker 1: see this stuff because it's not going to benefit you too.
Speaker 4: I mean, think about it.
Speaker 1: Would you rather believe that your brother is abusing your
Speaker 1: daughter or would you rather believe that he's a good
Speaker 1: guy and something else is wrong with your daughter. It's
Speaker 1: a lot easier to believe that the stuff doesn't go
Speaker 1: on than does go with her.
Speaker 3: But see, I feel sorry for my baby because I'm
Speaker 3: gonna be the exact opposite parent. I'm gonna accuse everyone.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna try not to, but I don't. I mean,
Speaker 3: there was a lady I have I have a front pack.
Speaker 3: I have it on right now. Actually he loves it.
Speaker 3: He loves to be close to me. But I had
Speaker 3: him in my front pack at the grocery store. And
Speaker 3: I was just minding my own business, shopping, you know,
Speaker 3: getting a little gross, and this older lady, grandma, age lady,
Speaker 3: she come up. She come up on us, and he
Speaker 3: had a little T shirt on that day, and she
Speaker 3: rubbed his elbow and she said, oh my goodness, you
Speaker 3: got a little angel on your hands. I said, thank you,
Speaker 3: turned away and got the fuck out of the aisle.
Speaker 3: She was trying to molestize his arm. I am, I don't.
Speaker 4: Care if you're old.
Speaker 3: I don't care if you disabled. I don't care if
Speaker 3: you identify as a minority. Okay, don't put your hands
Speaker 3: upon my child. She tried to molestize his elbow in
Speaker 3: the middle of the grocery store. Listen, people, he ain't
Speaker 3: doing a sleepover. He ain't doing a boy scout, he
Speaker 3: ain't doing a North Fox Island retreat. He ain't doing
Speaker 3: a Disney cruise. Ain't doing it. He's gonna hate me later,
Speaker 3: but at least his beehole will be normal sized. You
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. It's just in daycares too. Fuck
Speaker 3: a daycare. Fuck a daycare. I will live in my
Speaker 3: car before I have to work and put them in
Speaker 3: a daycare. And if you are a parent that uses daycarriage. Listen,
Speaker 3: I ain't judging you. I'm just saying, be close with
Speaker 3: your kids. Ask them questions, ask them about their teachers.
Speaker 3: Be up in that bitch. Be a presence in that daycare.
Speaker 3: Make it to where they understand when Julia shows up,
Speaker 3: it's all business. Okay, be inspecting that bitch. Be interviewing
Speaker 3: those fuckers up in there. Okay, make them scared of you,
Speaker 3: all right. But anyways, I'm enjoying this interview here. I
Speaker 3: might have to grab the cheetos. The cheetos because you know,
Speaker 3: I like to be on the watch parties. I like
Speaker 3: to be having a little snack.
Speaker 6: If somebody is watching this and they're living this life,
Speaker 6: they're in a position, what can you run? What would
Speaker 6: you say to them? How did they escape? How did
Speaker 6: they get back to normalacy?
Speaker 2: So to speak.
Speaker 4: It's just so.
Speaker 1: For anybody who's going through this type of a group,
Speaker 1: it's like what I'm gonna say is gonna fall in
Speaker 1: deaf ears, because there is when you control a child.
Speaker 1: I mean, look at an elephant, right, You tie an
Speaker 1: elephant who's a baby to a giant trunk and he
Speaker 1: can't move the trunk when that elephant is old enough
Speaker 1: that he could move it like that, he's not gonna move.
Speaker 1: So we're in that same kind of position psychologically with
Speaker 1: these people who don't understand that you're you're perpetrators. Even
Speaker 1: though they could do anything they wanted with you and
Speaker 1: you were children, they can't do that to you when
Speaker 1: you're older. So the first thing that I would say
Speaker 1: is run as fast as you can find a scenario.
Speaker 1: And you know that there's those loopholes all of us
Speaker 1: have dreamed about it where you just like, if it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter whether it's a stranger, just run to whoever
Speaker 1: the first person that you see is that could possibly
Speaker 1: hide you from this type of scenario. And I would
Speaker 1: have it be somebody outside the family, especially if you're
Speaker 1: in part of the group is like part of the
Speaker 1: family dynamic. I would have to be somebody completely unrelated. Now,
Speaker 1: people who are watching who were part of these groups
Speaker 1: are gonna know what I mean, because you get so
Speaker 1: adept at reading people when your survival depends on them
Speaker 1: that you can kind of feel what person's gonna be
Speaker 1: protective and what person isn't you know what I mean? Also, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think i'd say that about escaping. I would just
Speaker 1: tell them to get away. Like, however, it's wrong because
Speaker 1: it doesn't occur to you when you're in the.
Speaker 4: Middle of it that you can. But you can you can.
Speaker 1: You can't because like part of the rule is that
Speaker 1: they don't get to go get you.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's if you want me to tell you.
Speaker 1: The main reason that I'm not back there because they
Speaker 1: haven't loaded me in a truck is because that's against
Speaker 1: the programming rules. We have to be like dogs who
Speaker 1: come back home other ways. They don't have total control,
Speaker 1: and if they ever do get you, they're gonna kill you.
Speaker 1: So basically, run as fast as you can to run
Speaker 1: to the first place. If you can find a police department,
Speaker 1: that's even better, because I mean, now it wasn't like
Speaker 1: it was when I was younger. If you walk through
Speaker 1: the door and you're like, I'm getting tortured, this is
Speaker 1: what's happening. I'm getting abused. There after me, your average
Speaker 1: policeman who's heard about this stuff already is gonna be like,
Speaker 1: all right, we're not gonna release you. We're gonna call
Speaker 1: a child psychologist. We're gonna like, not let you leave
Speaker 1: here until we make sure that's not happening. Sure, let's
Speaker 1: hope that would be the reaction.
Speaker 6: You mentioned before the interview, that this is happening a
Speaker 6: lot in Idaho, Utah. You mentioned Boise, What should I,
Speaker 6: as the average person be looking for to know that
Speaker 6: this is going on? Where does this happen at and
Speaker 6: what sort of things are happening.
Speaker 4: The rural areas are the worst.
Speaker 1: If anybody is doing like a typical sacrifice or something,
Speaker 1: they can't be miles and miles out, and so usually
Speaker 1: what it is is they'll pick a side canyon somewhere
Speaker 1: that has like an overhang or a cave or something
Speaker 1: like that, and they'll do the rituals there, or else
Speaker 1: they'll pick private property. Let's say that a member of
Speaker 1: the group has like a huge, like a huge place
Speaker 1: property with fields. They'll pick those kinds of places. What
Speaker 1: I would say, I'm not really worried about you specifically,
Speaker 1: because people who work in the news, they've kind of
Speaker 1: had their eyes up until a lot of the messed
Speaker 1: up stuff that's happening. What I would basically say to
Speaker 1: anybody is that you got to look for anything that's
Speaker 1: that's abnormal, and I would say report anything, Report anything.
Speaker 1: That even remotely triggers you this your this might not
Speaker 1: be okay type of thing, because like, for example, when
Speaker 1: I was younger, I was eleven years old, one of
Speaker 1: the things that my particular porpetrayer used to do all
Speaker 1: the time is to keep me in these these bird
Speaker 1: ties that were like sort of like horse hobbles or else.
Speaker 1: These have you ever seen, like what falconers use, like
Speaker 1: really thin rope that they tie. So he would hog
Speaker 1: time me with my wrist, my ankles, and I'd spend
Speaker 1: days that way sometimes and you wouldn't feed me. But
Speaker 1: this one time, it was like probably eleven o'clock in
Speaker 1: the morning, in middle of the workday, and he took
Speaker 1: me out of the back of his truck and put
Speaker 1: me hog tide in this parking lot with tons of
Speaker 1: people around, I mean like tons. It was lunch hour.
Speaker 1: There was a group of three women at this particular
Speaker 1: point who were walking into the subway station store right
Speaker 1: by there.
Speaker 4: They passed me.
Speaker 1: All of them watched me hog tide on the floor,
Speaker 1: and they looked at him, and they looked at me,
Speaker 1: and they looked at him and looked at me, and
Speaker 1: then they just kept walking.
Speaker 4: I know that in their minds.
Speaker 1: The part of them was like, this is not okay,
Speaker 1: but we've got this, don't interfere in other people's lives
Speaker 1: type of attitude. Now that one of those women calling
Speaker 1: a police officer could have potentially saved the next how
Speaker 1: many years of my life? Two were eleven, So the
Speaker 1: next eight years of my life that I spent torture,
Speaker 1: it could have been prevented by one of those women
Speaker 1: calling in. So it's like, if you see something bizarre,
Speaker 1: if you see a parent that's treating a child bizarrely,
Speaker 1: don't assume that they're the parent.
Speaker 4: That's another thing too. People assumed that he was my
Speaker 4: parents like.
Speaker 1: A lot, and he would tell them that this is
Speaker 1: my daughter when he wasn't my parent. So so we
Speaker 1: like to assume a lot when we see things that
Speaker 1: are that don't fit in with how we feel, because we.
Speaker 4: Don't like to trust how we feel.
Speaker 1: Now, I would, honest to God, say like it's worth
Speaker 1: it to call a police office eight times and be
Speaker 1: sort of off base about what's going on for the
Speaker 1: one time when you call and it's like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: we just found it wasn't as smart, you know. That's
Speaker 1: what I would say, cause, I mean, unless you trip
Speaker 1: across something like that, you're not gonna know this stuff exists.
Speaker 1: They're doing it in their basements. They're picking kids who
Speaker 1: are not gonna be recognized, and if they show up
Speaker 1: on a missing poster, they're just gonna be one of
Speaker 1: a million names. You should go look up those figures
Speaker 1: if you ever want to get really cricked out by
Speaker 1: the way, Yeah.
Speaker 6: You said that he's mentioned to people that you were
Speaker 6: his daughter a lot. Oh yeah, why not speak up
Speaker 6: when you were when these people around and say no,
Speaker 6: help me?
Speaker 1: Well, because so, I'll tell you. One of the very
Speaker 1: first programming sessions that I went through, aside from that
Speaker 1: one where I was bonded to him, was another scenario
Speaker 1: where I was yet again put.
Speaker 4: On electric shocks.
Speaker 1: And basically they can use they can do this just
Speaker 1: by putting you in like an isolation tank, which they
Speaker 1: like using, or they can do it just by depriving
Speaker 1: your senses.
Speaker 4: Which they like doing.
Speaker 1: Or they can use one of these these medications which
Speaker 1: put your mind in a more suggestible state life ketamine,
Speaker 1: where essentially he walked me through a visualization. So we
Speaker 1: all know that that, like if you monitor a person's
Speaker 1: heart rate and you hook them up to a guided meditation.
Speaker 4: Say I was gonna say.
Speaker 1: Okay, now, now you're gonna imagine a nice, peaceful meadow, right,
Speaker 1: if I walk you through that, it will be very
Speaker 1: real to your mind. You're gonna be in that meadow,
Speaker 1: You're gonna be touching the grass, You're gonna be feeling
Speaker 1: the breeze. What they do in these groups is they
Speaker 1: use meditations and visualizations along with breathing techniques to induce
Speaker 1: immense amounts of trauma and to program the subconscious mind.
Speaker 1: So one of the first programs that was done on
Speaker 1: me like that, he had me breathing and then go
Speaker 1: through an elaborate visualization where he was walking me through
Speaker 1: my home having just told okay, you just told people
Speaker 1: about me, and you just told people who you really are.
Speaker 1: So what do you see hanging from the rafters? I
Speaker 1: shrugged my shoulders. He goes, do you see that that's
Speaker 1: your mother? Do you see that she's missing her skin?
Speaker 1: Someone has taken it all off of her body because
Speaker 1: you said something. Do you see that her blood is
Speaker 1: all over the floor, Go touch it. So there were
Speaker 1: walking these children like they were walking me basically through
Speaker 1: elaborate scenarios about exactly what will happen. See, it's not
Speaker 1: enough for these groups to say we're gonna kill everyone
Speaker 1: and to just say that.
Speaker 4: They actually walk you through the.
Speaker 1: Scenario of, you know, my mother being having her skin
Speaker 1: filaid off of her body, hung from the rafters, having
Speaker 1: my father decapitated, helping my brother be eaten and disemboweled,
Speaker 1: like all of that. Basically I was walked through that
Speaker 1: step by step. My brother was the real one that
Speaker 1: he used against me, because they're like, we're gonna take
Speaker 1: him if you say anything. So why would you not
Speaker 1: believe them?
Speaker 4: Is the question for a small child.
Speaker 1: So I believed every word he said and was completely
Speaker 1: convinced that would happen. And then when you get older
Speaker 1: and you are participating more in the group, it's programming
Speaker 1: sessions about how the cops are gonna come after you,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be stuck in a jail cell forever. So
Speaker 1: when the last thing you want is a so now
Speaker 1: you're bonded with them and you're sort of against the
Speaker 1: good guys type of a thing. So that's why I
Speaker 1: didn't say anything, and didn't I didn't know that he
Speaker 1: was wrong about that too, because that was what it
Speaker 1: wasn't just that he told people. He told me that
Speaker 1: he was my real father. Your mother's a horse, she's
Speaker 1: slept with me, and I'm your real father. That's why
Speaker 1: you don't look like your real dad.
Speaker 4: You look like me.
Speaker 1: And so he was confusing too because my parents would
Speaker 1: say things growing up. See, like my parents number one
Speaker 1: joke when I was growing up is that the bees
Speaker 1: Waxes have our baby. It's the fact that when I
Speaker 1: was rolled in when I was younger, and when I
Speaker 1: was first born, they rolled me into the delivery room
Speaker 1: and the Hispanic staff at the place that I was
Speaker 1: born couldn't pronounce my last name, and so they wrote beeswax.
Speaker 1: And so the joke forever growing up was the Beeswaxes
Speaker 1: have our baby. That there was some switch there, And
Speaker 1: you know, it was super funny to my parents, who
Speaker 1: didn't like understand me or get along for me. Super
Speaker 1: sad to me, like a soul crushing as a child
Speaker 1: to have that joke be spread around as a kid,
Speaker 1: because it means that, you know, sortf does plant to
Speaker 1: see like I don't fit into the family, and so
Speaker 1: they're like, we don't know where those like really some
Speaker 1: Asian looking eyes came from and stuff like that. And
Speaker 1: my perpetrator was really quite handsome. He's not.
Speaker 4: It wasn't like this decrepit old person that you'd expect.
Speaker 1: And so when he would bring up stuff like that
Speaker 1: to me, like look at our eye shape as the same,
Speaker 1: or you know I had dark hair and everyone else
Speaker 1: in your family is born with light hair. I was
Speaker 1: the only person my family born with dark hair. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, maybe he really is my real
Speaker 1: type of thing. I had no reason to doubt that either,
Speaker 1: especially given that I didn't. I mean, he was capitalizing
Speaker 1: like they all do. People who are majorly successful perpetrators.
Speaker 1: They capitalize on truths, and that's why they get so
Speaker 1: good at telling lies. If you if you tell eight
Speaker 1: truth in one lie, the person.
Speaker 4: Was gonna accept the lie.
Speaker 1: So he was basically working on what he already saw
Speaker 1: prison like I said, to do exactly what he did.
Speaker 4: I had no reason to doubt that.
Speaker 1: So if he was like sitting there like he was
Speaker 1: off and with me at a cafe and would say
Speaker 1: something like that, I had no reason to.
Speaker 4: Come up against it.
Speaker 1: Besides, there's consequences coming up against him, Oh, big ones.
Speaker 6: You you obviously believe this happened to you, truly believe that.
Speaker 6: Do you ever doubt that maybe this is just some
Speaker 6: sort of nightmare that you had and you've just relifted,
Speaker 6: Or do you ever doubt.
Speaker 2: That this happened to you?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Ever? No, because you know.
Speaker 1: I'll put it this way.
Speaker 6: Give me the last birthday party you remember, Oh, my gosh,
Speaker 6: probably my sister's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you doubt it happened?
Speaker 2: No, same thing.
Speaker 1: It's not that these memories are not obscure. It's not
Speaker 1: like I'm grasping at them. They're just as real as
Speaker 1: what did you eat yesterday? You can remember that you
Speaker 1: may not be able to tell me what the person
Speaker 1: in the fifth row was wearing, right, But it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, people love to think that that everybody questions
Speaker 1: trauma memory. But I'm like, it's somebody asking me, like,
Speaker 1: how do you know what happened? It's the same as
Speaker 1: me asking you, how do you know that you had
Speaker 1: a birthday party when you were five years old? I
Speaker 1: don't believe that happened. Wait, what you know? People only
Speaker 1: question memory when when they don't want to believe the
Speaker 1: reality of something that's the truth.
Speaker 6: And you're you've accepted this, and so you're willing to
Speaker 6: not think You're willing to admit that this happened because
Speaker 6: you've accepted it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, be saying that this didn't happen.
Speaker 1: It's like that's lying to myself, the same as somebody
Speaker 1: trying to convince themselves that they didn't go to the
Speaker 1: grade school they went to. It's like it would be
Speaker 1: that extremity of lying to myself.
Speaker 6: Sure, do you have does Has this caused you to
Speaker 6: have trust issues with people to Yes?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'll admit it. I mean horrible trusting people.
Speaker 1: But I'm also horrible at living a guarded life because
Speaker 1: it feels like crap. So so, yeah.
Speaker 2: And you went public because you wanted to.
Speaker 6: You wanted to hide, but your way of hiding was
Speaker 6: to go public so that if we went missing, Yes,
Speaker 6: it was like, oh where's till I.
Speaker 1: Well, I wanted to hide, but I also wanted to
Speaker 1: I also wanted to be like the forerunner for other
Speaker 1: women to be brave enough to do it.
Speaker 6: So I'm when Doug reached out to you and you
Speaker 6: agreed to do this interview, what was your reasoning for
Speaker 6: agreeing to do it.
Speaker 1: You know, at first, I was like, he's gonna be
Speaker 1: just like the Herald General. They're just gonna try this
Speaker 1: credit me. I don't know, Oh my god.
Speaker 4: But I was like, I didn't have that feeling.
Speaker 1: I know that I talk about feelings a lot, but
Speaker 1: I honestly believe that you got to trust your feelings
Speaker 1: because I didn't so much when I was younger, and
Speaker 1: that's what got me into so much trouble. So now
Speaker 1: it's like, I try to listen to my emotions, and
Speaker 1: when I was trying to listen to my emotions about
Speaker 1: this particular interview, I didn't have.
Speaker 4: I have this horrible feel to.
Speaker 1: It, and I was like, you know, I'm gonna become
Speaker 1: okay if he wants to discredit me and basically do
Speaker 1: executly what the Harold Journal did.
Speaker 4: And make me seem like something completely raving lunatic.
Speaker 1: I have to be okay with that because I have
Speaker 1: to understand the motive that people would have for doing that,
Speaker 1: and I have to also understand that it doesn't change
Speaker 1: my day to day life, like honestly, what I'm doing
Speaker 1: for a career now, regardless of what reporters say or
Speaker 1: don't say, having people write me letters who are part
Speaker 1: of these groups and say thank god you said something,
Speaker 1: because I don't have the bravery. But it's like you say,
Speaker 1: some part of my life saying this, It's like I
Speaker 1: still have that, yeah, and it's still worth it, regardless
Speaker 1: of what people in the mainstream say. So on the
Speaker 1: off chance that that wasn't the case, which I didn't
Speaker 1: feel like it was the case, I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe there will be somebody in the area, because honestly,
Speaker 1: you're a particular news station that you're coming from is
Speaker 1: in the area this stuff goes on. So if there's
Speaker 1: somebody watching this, maybe maybe one person will be saved.
Speaker 6: Sure, and you don't you've never won. During this interview
Speaker 6: named your perpetrator, you are keeper.
Speaker 1: I named him in the police reports. Here's the issue,
Speaker 1: And this was like, this was explained to me, like
Speaker 1: very explicitly by the police, both the police department and
Speaker 1: by like separate attorneys and people that if I name
Speaker 1: the perpetrator publicly basically without.
Speaker 4: The trial going through sure right now, not only.
Speaker 1: Does that flush the pheasants. What that means is that
Speaker 1: basically it gives them an opportunity to stash evidence but
Speaker 1: also I can be sued for defamation character right, So
Speaker 1: that's the only reason that I know.
Speaker 6: So it's not any sort of trying to protect him,
Speaker 6: it's just the legality of the situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now I've gone into because I've become so incredibly
Speaker 1: spiritually active, I've gone through a hell of a lot
Speaker 1: of process. I mean, we're looking you're when you're looking
Speaker 1: at me, you're looking at eleven years going of dealing
Speaker 1: with this type of on a daily basis. I've come
Speaker 1: to a very interesting space of forgiveness, not yet for
Speaker 1: my parents, but for him. Took me years. I mean
Speaker 1: I went through years of wanting to burn him, shoot him.
Speaker 4: Like so much rage. I can't tell you.
Speaker 1: I wanted to burn my.
Speaker 4: Whole childhood to the ground.
Speaker 1: But after going through that process, it's what's interesting is
Speaker 1: that I got a front row seat basically to the
Speaker 1: amount of suffering that these people go through that end
Speaker 1: up in these types of situations. I don't actually agree
Speaker 1: with the people who are coming up with these theories
Speaker 1: that the psychopathy is something which is inborn and genetic.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that because I got a front receipt
Speaker 1: to more than a few of these people, and the
Speaker 1: reality is that they come from extremely traumatic situations and
Speaker 1: that's what turns them off emotionally and makes them not
Speaker 1: only want to.
Speaker 4: But capable of doing the things that they keep doing.
Speaker 1: So when you get a front row sept to the
Speaker 1: suffering which creates the very condition that makes these people
Speaker 1: the way they are, I can't hate them with the
Speaker 1: same amount of vehemence, I guess as I did it
Speaker 1: to begin with. So in my sole progression, basically as
Speaker 1: I would say it, I don't desire him to.
Speaker 4: Come to and that's amount of harm.
Speaker 1: You know. It's not like I'm like rooting for there
Speaker 1: to be justice. There's no justice in somebody getting put away.
Speaker 1: The justice is in somebody living a happy life. The
Speaker 1: justice is in somebody getting out of a situation like
Speaker 1: that and finding a way to forgive and to make
Speaker 1: something beautiful. There's no justice that can be found in
Speaker 1: somebody sitting in a jail cell. So regardless of whether
Speaker 1: I might don't want other people to go through this
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, but I don't have immense amounts of
Speaker 1: pain that there's no justice in the situation. I feel
Speaker 1: amense amounts of justice in the situation I've done a
Speaker 1: very good job.
Speaker 4: It's my life.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm just petty, but I'm more of an eye
Speaker 3: for an eye type of bitch. And I'm so glad
Speaker 3: that she's gotten forgiveness or whatever it is is that
Speaker 3: she's acquired through her soul searching. I don't be doing
Speaker 3: any soul searching. I will tell you straight up, if
Speaker 3: somebody was to ever to ever try this on my child,
Speaker 3: I would be law abiding citizen up in this bitch.
Speaker 3: I would be cutting Dickson lips off eyelids, the whole nine.
Speaker 3: I ain't talking about a jail cell. I'm talking about
Speaker 3: time to a car and dragon. Okay. So I'm glad
Speaker 3: that she is able to find serenity and peace and forgiveness.
Speaker 3: I'm very happy for her. I'm gonna cut a bitch
Speaker 3: just saying.
Speaker 2: You've forgiven you're a keeper.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but.
Speaker 2: Not your parents.
Speaker 6: When you hear that, it almost seems backwards like you
Speaker 6: would forgive your parents because your parents didn't know what's
Speaker 6: going on. Your perpetrator is the one that inflicted this
Speaker 6: car harm.
Speaker 2: And pain on you.
Speaker 6: Explain to me, Explain to me the logic I guess
Speaker 6: behind that forgiveness that you've come to.
Speaker 1: If you want to use a psychological term, it's called
Speaker 1: bystander trauma. Usually what you'll find is that if there
Speaker 1: is a perpetrator and a bystander, the person will find
Speaker 1: it the hardest to forgive the bystander.
Speaker 4: And it's no different with me because.
Speaker 1: It's like I've had to sort of accept the fact,
Speaker 1: especially recently, that this wouldn't have happened unless there was
Speaker 1: already pain there with my parents and I. This wouldn't
Speaker 1: have happened if we were a really healthy, happy family together.
Speaker 1: I really belonged and everything. So yeah, it's way harder
Speaker 1: for me to forgive all of that. I mean, I
Speaker 1: can under I can at least relate more to his
Speaker 1: mentality being so traumatized as a child and then ending
Speaker 1: up this way. What's difficult for me is watching people
Speaker 1: who are quote supposed to love and protect me fail
Speaker 1: at it over and over and over, and then continue
Speaker 1: to fail at it now that I'm adult. That's the
Speaker 1: real reason we're not talking to each other, and that's
Speaker 1: why it's so difficult for me to just forget it.
Speaker 1: It's not because of what they did, who they're doing.
Speaker 1: I mean, how are you supposed to forgive somebody that
Speaker 1: will look you in the face and say, well, we're
Speaker 1: willing to accept that something definitely happened, but not all
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 7: Sure.
Speaker 4: It's like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I like to compare it sometimes to telling
Speaker 1: telling fundamentalist Christian parents that you're gay. It's like if
Speaker 1: your parents say, well, okay, but we don't really believe
Speaker 1: that people can be gay, so we're not going to
Speaker 1: accept all of that story. Then it's like some part
Speaker 1: of you can't really fully be seen by these people.
Speaker 1: And my parents would love it. It's because they're in pain.
Speaker 1: I will admit my parents, I mean, my parents' life
Speaker 1: was turned upside down with me. It was their life
Speaker 1: turned to hell because of what happened too. But it's
Speaker 1: the it's just this, It's like, if not all of
Speaker 1: me can be seen by them, and they want me
Speaker 1: to move forward like anyone would, let's just get over
Speaker 1: it and let's just move on. But the reality of
Speaker 1: acute trauma like I went through is that my reality
Speaker 1: is I don't just get to move on. I mean,
Speaker 1: I still I still suffer the aftermath of it all
Speaker 1: the time. I still I'm learning how to pull myself
Speaker 1: out of seizures just now, but I still have the
Speaker 1: sociative seizures.
Speaker 4: I get triggered by things randomly.
Speaker 1: I can't go watch movies because the previews might have
Speaker 1: something which is, you know, reminds me of the past,
Speaker 1: and then I'm gone, basically lost consciousness. I have immense
Speaker 1: relationship trouble. So it's like, you know, it doesn't work
Speaker 1: to just move on from something like that because it's
Speaker 1: so much of a part of your life. It's sort
Speaker 1: of like if you've lost your limbs at war.
Speaker 4: People say, oh, just.
Speaker 1: Forget it and move on to your life, and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I couldn't, but I can't really walk upstairs anymore. So
Speaker 1: it's a little bit hard when you have the reminder
Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day, and when when your parents
Speaker 1: call and say, how is your weak, I can't tell
Speaker 1: them the truth because the truth is it was really
Speaker 1: bad because I had to relive this, you know, ull
Speaker 1: trauma that happened. And I'm struggling because my son has
Speaker 1: hit this certain age that triggers me and I'm panicked
Speaker 1: about him getting taken. When you can't share those kinds
Speaker 1: ofdential your family, it's a little bit difficult to have,
Speaker 1: like a really close relationship. Sure, But then so that's
Speaker 1: why I'm still I'm working to try to forgive them.
Speaker 1: But I also don't believe that forgiveness can be forced.
Speaker 1: That's something which I think a lot of people should know,
Speaker 1: especially if they've gotten away from groups and are watching
Speaker 1: this right now. They're like, you can't you cannot force forgiveness.
Speaker 1: We can use the word I forgave my perpetrator or
Speaker 1: I forgave my parents.
Speaker 4: The reality is is.
Speaker 1: That you can't force that. It's an organic experience which
Speaker 1: happens in and of itself. And the minute you can
Speaker 1: look back and approve of what basically happened in your
Speaker 1: life is the moment you've forgiven somebody. Until then it
Speaker 1: hasn't happened. So you can't just say I forgive them
Speaker 1: and it be true.
Speaker 2: And you have a son, Now does he know what
Speaker 2: happened to you?
Speaker 1: I'm how old is he?
Speaker 4: Not every detail? He's five?
Speaker 1: Okay, not every single detail honestly, be cause I don't
Speaker 1: want to trumatize a hell of him. But I don't
Speaker 1: believe in keeping secret from him. I mean, he knows
Speaker 1: that Mommy gets triggered. He knows that Mommy loves his
Speaker 1: consciousness sometimes and and you know, he he's really cute.
Speaker 1: Like the other day we were watching this program on
Speaker 1: dinosaurs and there is like a gory scene in the
Speaker 1: dinosaur movie and he jumped across the couch and covered
Speaker 1: my eyes. He's like, he's like, Mommy shouldn't see this.
Speaker 1: Mommy shouldn't see this. Push pause and so on. Warm
Speaker 1: half it's like more half.
Speaker 4: Of me feels bad.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, Like.
Speaker 4: It's sad that my son has to deal with this.
Speaker 1: On the inside, it's like, because he understands what's going
Speaker 1: on with mommy, he is actually turning into a more
Speaker 1: well rounded person. Besides it, I mean, it doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense to me to light in my kid. If I'm
Speaker 1: having trouble, I'll say to them, mommy is just having
Speaker 1: a hard tingue. So I had a really bad time
Speaker 1: when I was a little kid. When I was a
Speaker 1: little kid, people.
Speaker 4: Hurt me really bad. He understands that.
Speaker 1: So at this phase, instead of going into gruesome details,
Speaker 1: we're at that phase. He knows that mommy was hurt
Speaker 1: when she was little. He knows that mommy has trouble
Speaker 1: when she remembers certain things, and that's about where we are.
Speaker 6: So you have a long ways to go in your recovery. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you're Will you ever do you ever feel like you'll
Speaker 6: be fully recovered?
Speaker 1: I would love to think that it's possible, but I
Speaker 1: think if I'm attached to the idea of being in
Speaker 1: a completely healthy state, then there's some aspect of me
Speaker 1: that rejects where I am right now.
Speaker 3: And Okay, we're gonna skip to the end because this
Speaker 3: part was kind of boring, So this is her final
Speaker 3: thoughts and then we'll have our final thoughts.
Speaker 6: So yeah, sure, if there was one message that you
Speaker 6: could give anybody that might be going through this, what
Speaker 6: would that message.
Speaker 4: Be There's a reason for everything?
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't. That was the one question I had
Speaker 1: in my mind the whole time that I was going
Speaker 1: through where it was see no you ring, no fuck.
Speaker 8: I been bringing to cheese that.
Speaker 4: I promise myself I was gonna maketures dout. Crying didn't work.
Speaker 2: So you feel like, what happened? Do you happened for
Speaker 2: a reason?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it took me like so many years.
Speaker 2: To see that, but.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I spent I spent the majority of my time like.
Speaker 1: And the whole. So I would say that the reason
Speaker 1: that this is happening is not the one you think
Speaker 1: it is right now, because most of us would go
Speaker 1: through these scenarios. We think that you know what's happening
Speaker 1: because we deserve it, or it's happening because we're evil
Speaker 1: or something stupid thing like that.
Speaker 2: But sorry, I'm like.
Speaker 7: Okay, sorry, sorry, I'm still a little resistant to my emotions.
Speaker 1: I know, I feel really like horrible when I break it.
Speaker 4: Down in front of people.
Speaker 1: I still am afraid of being like that much vulnerable.
Speaker 6: You know, sure, do you do you know what you
Speaker 6: or do you have a belief of the reason why I.
Speaker 1: Think I think I was I think I was meant
Speaker 1: to bring new information to this world about compassion and
Speaker 1: getting over things. So I don't think that we know
Speaker 1: how to do that. I don't think that we know
Speaker 1: what forgiveness really is, and I don't think we know
Speaker 1: why these things go on.
Speaker 4: And I feel like I have this amazing ability.
Speaker 1: Now and I'm watching it with people every day not
Speaker 1: only to teach people why this.
Speaker 4: Stuff occurs, but also what did you to prevent it?
Speaker 1: And I think that more than that, I can one
Speaker 1: of the major purposes is for me to be like
Speaker 1: an example for people who, especially women, who are going
Speaker 1: through these types of really painful things, to know that,
Speaker 1: you know what, this old paradigm of the fact that
Speaker 1: you're just damage goes for us of your life is
Speaker 1: not true. So I feel like the m main purpose
Speaker 1: for this is this like beautiful image of life transformation
Speaker 1: which can occur and genuine forgiveness, not just feigned forgiveness,
Speaker 1: not just forget and get over it, like true, like
Speaker 1: soul altering forgiveness. I feel like I can teach that
Speaker 1: to the people of the world now. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that there's there's purpose every time that somebody goes
Speaker 1: through something.
Speaker 4: There's purpose. When we look at.
Speaker 1: Something that's super traumatic happening in our lives, then we
Speaker 1: just can't understand for the life of this, why the hell?
Speaker 1: It's like the why mey question. It just means that
Speaker 1: we haven't gotten far enough away from the circumstance to
Speaker 1: see the bigger picture and what was torturing me when
Speaker 1: I was going through everything. It's just that, I mean,
Speaker 1: I racked my brain for why the hell this could be?
Speaker 1: Why a thing?
Speaker 5: It was the why me?
Speaker 4: Why the hell? Is this happening to me?
Speaker 1: Why am I the one?
Speaker 4: And I came up with.
Speaker 1: A lot of painful explanations to that. So what I
Speaker 1: would tell people is that don't believe that you know
Speaker 1: a suspened judgment. There's always a bigger picture, the bigger
Speaker 1: reason why you would be going through these things. And
Speaker 1: if you're telling yourself a painful story like I'm going
Speaker 1: through it cause I'm evil, or I'm going through it
Speaker 1: cause I'm bad, it's not the reason that. There's always
Speaker 1: a much more beautiful picture of why things happen to
Speaker 1: people the way they do.
Speaker 4: That you can't see when you're in the middle of it.
Speaker 1: You can only see it when you put one foot
Speaker 1: in front of the other in the direction of healing.
Speaker 1: Then it's like organic. You don't have to even look
Speaker 1: for the purpose. It just falls in your lap one
Speaker 1: day and you're like, oh my god, I get it,
Speaker 1: all of it.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Is there anything else that you that you want to
Speaker 6: talk about, that you want to share if is there
Speaker 6: a message that you have.
Speaker 4: Mm?
Speaker 1: I think I think that we're in a time where
Speaker 1: we have to open up to these a lot darker
Speaker 1: aspects of the human psyche. You have to admit that
Speaker 1: these things go on, and we have to provide ways
Speaker 1: for both sides of the equation to heal. This is
Speaker 1: gonna be a main goal of my life. It's there's
Speaker 1: healing that needs to happen on both sides of the gun.
Speaker 1: We need to basically create a way in our society
Speaker 1: for people who are perpetrators and people who are victims
Speaker 1: of perpetrators to get healing for the conditions which they're experiencing,
Speaker 1: which we're causing them to inflict this kind of pain
Speaker 1: on other fellow men. So you know, the greater message
Speaker 1: is it's no kind of justice to condemn either party.
Speaker 1: That what I'm calling for is a a mass movement
Speaker 1: of healing and integration where these people on both sides
Speaker 1: of the gun are having access to ways that they
Speaker 1: can find happiness and healing, which we're not providing for
Speaker 1: them when they get thrown to jail cells and we're
Speaker 1: not providing for them when we get thrown to society
Speaker 1: and now we're damaged goods. I would want society to
Speaker 1: be a lot more adult and welcome both people with
Speaker 1: open arms into a space of let's do something about this.
Speaker 1: Let's not just put you in a corner and hope
Speaker 1: that doesn't touch my family. Oh, it's touching your family.
Speaker 1: It's touching everybody's lives. This idea that we are separate
Speaker 1: from other people is an absolute illusion. If a girl
Speaker 1: gets taken, it does affect you, whether you're conscious of
Speaker 1: it or not. So I think this is our time
Speaker 1: to be responsible as a human race in general, regardless
Speaker 1: of our denominations. We should all just sort of come
Speaker 1: together and realize that we all want collective healing from people.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like if you if you were to
Speaker 1: take an airplane and fly over to like the Middle
Speaker 1: East right now.
Speaker 4: Those people don't want any different than we knew.
Speaker 1: They want the same stuff. So if we could just
Speaker 1: like remove this l the lines that we keep putting
Speaker 1: between ourselves and other people enough.
Speaker 4: To really care.
Speaker 1: And enough to help people, then this kind of stuf
Speaker 1: wouldn't happen in the first place. People can only do
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff when they're separated enough that nobody cares,
Speaker 1: when they're separated enough that no one notices.
Speaker 6: You had said earlier that you were you had self mutilation,
Speaker 6: you had the scars on your ribs.
Speaker 2: Do looking at those scars every day. What is that
Speaker 2: like for you?
Speaker 1: I actually like them. I love this, so it sounds
Speaker 1: kind of funny. It's not like I get sad every
Speaker 1: time I look at them. Instead, it's like it's like
Speaker 1: a roadmap of where I've been. And maybe that's a
Speaker 1: coping skill of mine to try to deal with the
Speaker 1: pain of my childhood.
Speaker 4: But I mean I did.
Speaker 1: I covered most of my scars that were inflicted on
Speaker 1: me by other people with tattoos as you can see. Sure,
Speaker 1: but it's like I look at these scars now and
Speaker 1: I can't hate where I've been without hating where I am.
Speaker 1: So so I I look at them and it's like
Speaker 1: I can tell based on like like this one, for example,
Speaker 1: was made by the group during a ritual. I can
Speaker 1: feel the feeling where I was then and versus the
Speaker 1: feeling of the life I've created now. And it's like
Speaker 1: this really pretty road map of a sole progression.
Speaker 2: Sure, is there anything else that you wanna talk about?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: I can think of, how did you hire a time?
Speaker 2: See there's a strong pace ward how they.
Speaker 1: Oh, I M yeah, this is gentual pace ingred.
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know what it's.
Speaker 1: Well they could look up the dates I'm a basic
Speaker 1: Satanic virtual site. Like if you wanted to, you could
Speaker 1: look up sr A dates and it'll show you all
Speaker 1: of the Satanic r A. Yeah kay, Satanic Ritual Association.
Speaker 1: It'll tell you basically all of the the typical dates
Speaker 1: which they use for their thing, exactly, alright. No, it's
Speaker 1: worth mentioning that when these perpetrators, when they target children,
Speaker 1: they target the same profile of the child. So also,
Speaker 1: if you really wanna know like who was gonna be targeted,
Speaker 1: you should pay close attention to your children and their
Speaker 1: personality types. So there's an interesting study that was done.
Speaker 1: Now I'm not going to remember the exact one, but
Speaker 1: what they did is they took a bunch of of
Speaker 1: pedophile killers, like people who killed children, out of the
Speaker 1: maximum security prison and they took them to the mall
Speaker 1: of America and they gave them all polaroid cameras and
Speaker 1: sent them out separately to take pictures of the children
Speaker 1: which they would normally target, cause they wanted to see
Speaker 1: if they could find like a typical sort of a similarity.
Speaker 1: I think it was four out of five of these
Speaker 1: people picked to the same kid. And so what they've found,
Speaker 1: basically what they were what these people helped them with
Speaker 1: cause to our obvious benefit, a lot of these serious sociopaths,
Speaker 1: they are actually proud of what they've done, so they're
Speaker 1: pretty glad to brag about it and talk to you
Speaker 1: about it. They profile for children who have a very
Speaker 1: interesting personality type. They have to be very shy and quiet,
Speaker 1: but very strong. If you get shy but weak, they
Speaker 1: will they'll break down, their body will go to hell.
Speaker 1: Like they may not tell somebody, but you're gonna just
Speaker 1: like lose your subject. Basically, if they're strong, then obviously
Speaker 1: they're gonna fight back, especially if they're strong and loud.
Speaker 1: But if you find strong and quiet, that kid's gonna
Speaker 1: internalize a hell of a lot and at the same
Speaker 1: time they're not gonna say anything. So if you have
Speaker 1: a kid who's got a real sort of strong will,
Speaker 1: strong personality type that's also very shy and quiet, that's
Speaker 1: a major target, super target for these types of people.
Speaker 9: Is there a specific age that they're targeting because you
Speaker 9: were four, Yeah, the majority of the ones that I
Speaker 9: have seen that are targeted when they are not part
Speaker 9: of a group are elementary age, So that would be
Speaker 9: probably let's start it at four.
Speaker 1: Four to five is probably the limit to the youth,
Speaker 1: the age that I've seen them get to the young side.
Speaker 1: So four to five all the way to about twelve,
Speaker 1: that's the target age.
Speaker 2: It's a white wide range. Yeah, yeah, Do you worry
Speaker 2: about your sudden pop beep all the time?
Speaker 4: This is like the number one problem. Let's face it.
Speaker 4: I've been through.
Speaker 1: I can tell you there's a lot of things that
Speaker 1: are worse than death. So having personally experienced what it's
Speaker 1: like to be unable to escape and to be physically
Speaker 1: tortured and emotionally tortured, I don't care whether someone shoots me.
Speaker 1: I don't care whether I die.
Speaker 4: What really scares me is something happening to my son.
Speaker 1: And this is like the Achilles Heel for me, and
Speaker 1: everyone knows that that's the case with those of us
Speaker 1: that escape from groups. It's like, you know, when I
Speaker 1: had him, I knew I was done for if they
Speaker 1: ever found him, I'd be done. I already know that
Speaker 1: about myself.
Speaker 4: I am afraid of it all the time. I dream
Speaker 4: about it all the time. It's like it torments me.
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of him coming after me, and I
Speaker 1: have to have conversations with everyone in our house and
Speaker 1: you know, his his teachers about not only might public
Speaker 1: profile now but also what.
Speaker 4: I went through, and just I have to.
Speaker 1: Be so dedicated not only to you know, explaining to
Speaker 1: them nobody is to take this child pick them up
Speaker 1: or not if you have not recognized our faces. If
Speaker 1: it's not me or this person, will literally show them
Speaker 1: they're not allowed to pick my son up.
Speaker 4: So that's not fun to go through that whole story.
Speaker 1: But also it's like it's it's not fun to have
Speaker 1: conversations with my son where I have to basically go through.
Speaker 4: That whole thing.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna get in the car as somebody who's
Speaker 1: not you know, goes through the people type of thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you just don't like hes hell. That's really
Speaker 1: what doesn't for me when it comes to what I
Speaker 1: went through. It's like, what the hell would ever happen
Speaker 1: if they took my son? And they do go after children,
Speaker 1: children of yup people whose game which is quite rare,
Speaker 1: but but they're not gonna target you specifically. That's how
Speaker 1: they try to keep in controls by targeting whatever you're
Speaker 1: attached to. They have to have complete control of that
Speaker 1: and it works, and and like God forbid, you have
Speaker 1: a baby in one of these scenarios, which does happen
Speaker 1: for a lot of us. I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: women who were in like these groups. They're getting pregnant
Speaker 1: at like twelve thirteen sometimes, so some of these girls
Speaker 1: as teenagers are having babies in the group and that's
Speaker 1: why they can't leave even if they want to, cause
Speaker 1: their kids are now controlled by these people. It's like,
Speaker 1: thank god I got I was actually impregnated three times
Speaker 1: by and then aborted by him.
Speaker 2: By your keeper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, he impregnated and then and then performed
Speaker 1: the all of the abortions with rudimentary veterinary equipment, which
Speaker 1: did a hell of a lot of damage. It was
Speaker 1: very hard for me to conceive my son because of
Speaker 1: just how much damage was done. But like, I was
Speaker 1: so traumatized about it, just like losing babies. Any woman
Speaker 1: would who could relate to this, Like there's almost nothing
Speaker 1: more traumatic than losing babies. But now that I'm gone,
Speaker 1: I'm like thank God, like thank god that they died,
Speaker 1: because I'm you know, now knowing what it's like to
Speaker 1: love a child.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have loved not at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, is there anything else.
Speaker 9: For me?
Speaker 2: The well, I appreciate you. I know we probably took
Speaker 2: more time than you really were planning on. I don't
Speaker 2: even know how long that was, but two or twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: I've a lot less than I thought. Wow.
Speaker 3: And so that's Teal Swan. I almost feel sorry for
Speaker 3: making fun of her. I mean, granted what she said,
Speaker 3: it's always I want to say sixty forty sixty percent
Speaker 3: of me wants to believe that everything she said is
Speaker 3: absolutely one true. Forty percent of me thinks that they
Speaker 3: plant people like this into the mainstream to confuse us
Speaker 3: and just to be able to control the narrative. But
Speaker 3: since sixty percent of me thinks that this really happened
Speaker 3: to her and that she is a genuine SRA survivor,
Speaker 3: I almost feel bad for the bitch. I want to
Speaker 3: buy her Coucie cream or whatever it is that she's
Speaker 3: pedaling these days. If you look hard enough on Facebook,
Speaker 3: you will see her ads. She's got the Kundalini tordolini rub,
Speaker 3: some type of lotus flower oil that you rub on
Speaker 3: your taint, and you know, it might be amazing, It
Speaker 3: might open up all my chonkras and balance my third
Speaker 3: eyes in all the things. But besides that, I really
Speaker 3: think her story's fucked up. And it's the same thing
Speaker 3: that I always say if someone were to ever go
Speaker 3: after my child, she's a bigger person than me because
Speaker 3: it would be lobb binding, citizen up in this bitch
Speaker 3: if someone was to ever go.
Speaker 1: After my child.
Speaker 3: But what do you think of teal Swan?
Speaker 1: Everybody?
Speaker 3: Is she telling the truth? Is this all made the
Speaker 3: fuck up? It's pretty Uh, it's pretty fucked up. I
Speaker 3: mean like some of the stuff I've heard others are
Speaker 3: ARI survivors talk about some of the stuff I hadn't
Speaker 3: heard before. But yeah, anyways, thanks for watching till the end.
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: We'll be back with some new, exciting, fresh shit soon.
Speaker 3: But uh, until then, I love you, guys, and I
Speaker 3: will catch you on the next one.
Speaker 5: Girl, Fige, you were the tricka. You brought me to
Speaker 5: an objective. You w your know to Pi Speaker, who
Speaker 5: went my kitten? Who from kicking?
Speaker 10: You doin everything you do it every time you want
Speaker 10: my enemy, you want no friend of mine. Motherfucker your
Speaker 10: mouthfucking right, your motherfucking right on bitter, your motherfucking.
Speaker 5: Right on triggered, your motherfuck right up.
Speaker 10: I wanna fucking right now. I just turned the lights
Speaker 10: out now and you know when the song go down,
Speaker 10: when it would all go down. Been a minute, been
Speaker 10: a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody, it is it?
Speaker 9: You with it?
Speaker 2: You know you?
Speaker 5: It's not what to do with it better?
Speaker 7: I know?
Speaker 5: Mean you're without you with it. I'm up to Burner's
Speaker 5: beach down. You got nick the lie down because I'm
Speaker 5: not trying a while down now. But right now I
Speaker 5: don't know what okay forball love might fuck around and
Speaker 5: go crazy because my fuck around have to pay me
Speaker 5: and blood. This ain't the way that you want.
Speaker 10: Might get your case in this bitch, let me catch
Speaker 10: your face to face in this bitch trying.
Speaker 5: My heart is not to this respect after what you did, Man,
Speaker 5: what you've expected? Your motherfucking your mouthfucking right, your.
Speaker 10: Motherfucking right on, bitter, your motherfucking right on, drigger, your
Speaker 10: motherfucking right out shouting another time, that shot a lot
Speaker 10: of time.
Speaker 5: Go back, channing at the time, Oh, turning at the time.
Speaker 1: Go oh the.
Speaker 11: Memories, oh you men to me, Oh history, Oh that's history.
Speaker 11: I'll calm down eventually oh back, eventially face calling back,
Speaker 11: eventially
Speaker 5: All back me.