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Speaker 1: You are listening to Cougar Sports with Ben Kretel, and

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it's time for a Cougar Insider report. Now, let's get

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that for a prietary inside scoop on Cougar Sports from Credel,

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Welcome back to the sports.

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Speaker 2: One of three nine ninety of boy three is being

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the ban on bet Trinal broadcasting from our Vanderwelth Studios

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Vanderwealth dot Com. Get on a free Q and a

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no obligation to have a SQNA with our tax smart

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wealth Advisors. Don't combine forces with your CPA to save

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your money on your taxes. It's not what you earn,

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it's what you keep. Let's keep your money in your

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pocket this year at e's don for a little Cougar

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Inside report. Want to talk private equity and college athletics

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in this segment with a man that I trust. Love

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talking about business, entrepreneurship and just just college athletics with

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this guy. He's been a friend, longtime friend, and I'll

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welcome him in here momentarily. This segment gonna be brought

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to you by big Otires in American Fork. If you're

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looking for an honest, hard working, cost transparent mechanic who's

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also a big BYU fan.

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Speaker 3: Ryan Eldridge is your guy.

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Speaker 2: Give him a chance, your business, VIP products, VPP service,

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VIP discounts.

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Speaker 3: He does more than just tires, guys.

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Speaker 2: I know it's his big o' tires in the name,

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but it's a full service mechanic shop. Hit him up today,

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Ryan Elders will take care of you. All right, let's

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get out tell the hotline. Welcome in, my good friend.

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He's an entrepreneur, obviously co founder president of Vivid. He's

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also been a part of the OI athletics for a

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long time. He's part of the athletic director circle both

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at BYU and for UVU Basketball. Welcome in, Keith Now

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listen to the show Keith, How the heck are you?

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And also former co host. He has coast with me

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a few times on the show, Keith, how are you?

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Speaker 3: Buddy?

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Speaker 4: I'm doing great?

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Speaker 2: Then, how are you doing fantastic? I appreciate you spending

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some time with me. I know you're spending some time

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with your wonderful daughter right now as a girl dad,

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so I appreciate you spend a little bit of time

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with us. Look, hey, the university, if you broke this

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this I don't know what you'd call it, maybe private

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equity ceiling here. Many people had flirted with private equity.

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Many athletic departments have evaluated allowing some sort of influx

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of cast coming in and outsourcing or rather biprecating their

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university their athletic department and creating a for profit entity

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and allowing these private investment, these private equity firms to

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come in and buy portions of their athletic department.

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Speaker 3: But Utah decided to go forth with it.

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Speaker 2: Was that a surprise to you and give me kind

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of like your overall view of private equity and sports

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your opinion.

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, and this is just my opinion, right,

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but I think Utah's in Utah's in a difficult spot.

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And if you remember this last legislature, there was a

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lot of cuts to higher education, and the University of

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Utah is the largest benefactor of money from the legislature

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and they got a big cut. So right now, the

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kind of like the table stakes in college sports, especially

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at the powerpoard level, is are you going to have

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a full reb share? Right If you don't have a

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full rev share, it's like you're not even in the game.

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And you saw that in Kelowney's negotiation. It was, Hey,

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we're going to have a full reb share and we're

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going to have an IL on top of it. And

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so I'm sure that the people there at the University

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of Utah sitting there saying, hey, we're getting all this

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funding cut, right, We're going to have to we're cutting

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all these you know programs out there, and then we're

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going to go ask for more money for athletics. And

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so I think they're in a situation there where they

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were like, we have to do something different. And you know,

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my experience with private equity is they don't really take

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a lot of chances. They kind of understand what they're

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getting into. And you remember Peter Pilling at BYU. He

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came into BYU through IMG, and IMG had this model

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back then that hey, we can do marketing for you

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better than you can and you're not going to have

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all the expenses of this marketing, right, so you don't

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have to have a marketing department. You hire us, will

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pay you a million dollars for that, right, and once

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we've recouped a couple of million dollars, then we'll share

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with you going forward. And they were very successful doing that,

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and then the universities realized, Hey, there's a lot more

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money out here for us to go and get. And

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so I think that this is just kind of a

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little bit of a twist on that. And when I

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you know, I've read the same articles you've read. No

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one really knows exactly what's going on, but it seems

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to me what they did was they went and took

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the revenue generating assets within the University of Utah, which

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are ticket sales, sponsorships, events, you know, any marketing collateral

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that they can go out there and sell, and it

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looks like even fundraising. And they basically said, we're going

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to take these assets and we're going to put them

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in this new entity, and that new entity is going

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to be funded by this outro capital and we're going

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to get a piece of that capital. And I'm betting

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that they're going to use that piece of cap to

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right now make it so they have a full rep

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share and also to probably go and invest money in

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the assets there can they can actually produce revenue in

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the NFL, it's all about new stadiums and luxury boxes

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and all that type of stuff. I'm sure it's going

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to be the same thing here and have it done

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with people that have a for profit motive, like how

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do we grow this? How do we make more money?

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And within universities, it's usually not that type of a person, right,

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It's not someone who's hyper aggressive. They just you know,

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they won't work at a university. And so to me,

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that's what's happened here. And the bet that the University

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of Utah is making is that these people can grow

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this faster than they could and that the money that

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the private equity cas you know, so, so if it's

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worth two hundred million dollars today, let's just say that

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in five to seven years, it'll be worth six or

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seven hundred million dollars and that will only be because

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the revenue is so much greater. But to me, this

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is more about how do we how do we get

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capital that we can no longer get from the legislature,

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and how do we make sure that we can you know,

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fund a full rep share because right now, if you

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can't fund the full REP share, good good luck and recruiting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what can we take away from the five hundred

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million dollar amount? If we pull up US Department of

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Education numbers? Now I don't know how accurate these p

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and ls are from the universities that they distribute to

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the university or to the US Department of Education.

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Speaker 3: But let's say, like the.

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Speaker 2: Athletic department of the University of Utah, with all their

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student fees, their TV money, all those things that you

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just mentioned, the profitable elements of the athletic department comes

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up to like one hundred.

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Speaker 3: And fifty million, let's say.

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Speaker 2: And that may be higher than what it actually is,

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because I think BYU in twenty twenty three did about

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one thirty with out having the TV money that Utah

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has been benefiting of for over the last thirteen years.

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So let's say one hundred and fifty million that they

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actually generate. And that's not obviously probably because we all

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know that these athletic.

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Speaker 3: Departments run in the red.

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Speaker 2: So you take the five hundred million dollars, you say, Okay,

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well they they in twenty twenty three they did one

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hundred and fifty million. What do we make of that? Like,

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when you see those numbers, what do you think.

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Speaker 4: About Well, first of all, I mean, p I don't

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believe that they went and put five hundred million dollars

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into a capital investment of five hundred million dollars on

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one hundred and fifty million dollars revenue, right, and that

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they're a minority partner. That makes sense? Like that That

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math doesn't make sense to me, is right?

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Speaker 3: Like? Okay? So and some private odd about that.

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Speaker 4: Yes, private equity will make sense. Okay. And so if

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you went and said, hey, we're going to have like

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this entity, Okay, let's say let's say they have one

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hundred and fifty million dollars in revenue, They're going to

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have limited expenses, right because they don't have to pay

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for anything other than the salaries and costs to make

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that money. This money, you know, their P and L

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is only going to be people that are out there

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selling sponsorships, raising money, managing the tickets. Right, They're not

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going to have to do They're not going to have

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to pay for the athletic department. People who think that

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somehow this is going to come in and they're going

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to cover all the costs of that athletic department. That's

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that's they're going to go out and grow that one

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hundred and fifty million dollars and no pride costs them.

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You know, millions of dollars to do that, and then

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I see, I see that entity being very, very profitable,

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right because you're getting all of the revenue and none

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of the real costs that it costs to deliver that product.

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That's how I see this happening. So let's just say

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they came in and they bought you know, so we

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have easy math here. Let's just say they came in

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and bought twenty percent or twenty five percent. Let's say

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they've come in and bought twenty five percent of this thing,

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and they go out and this year they bring in

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one hundred and sixty million dollars of revenue, and the

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costs to generate that were twenty million dollars. So now

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there's one hundred and forty million dollars of revenue there.

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They're going to get twenty five percent of that, so

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that's thirty five million, and the university is going to

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get one hundred and five million. You say, well, why

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would the university do that? Well, the university does that

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because they got an influx to capital right now, you

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know that they can use. And then the goal is

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that in a couple of years now it's doing two

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hundred and fifty million dollars in revenue. Right now, two

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hundred and fifty million dollars in revenue will cost twenty million,

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So you got two hundred and thirty million and now

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twenty five you know, seventy five percent of that is

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more than they were getting before, and they still got

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the capital that came in. That's the only way this

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thing makes sense to me, because private equity. I've never

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seen a private equity deal that does not have some

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sort of a preferred return in it for the private

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equity people. And you know that sometimes that preferred return

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is in cash, sometimes it accumulates. Does that make sense?

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You know?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 4: And hopefully, like when we did private equity at visn't

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the guys the preferred didn't matter. They did so well

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on it that we all just split the profits according

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to the waterfall. So I don't Again, I view this

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as someone's trying to grow a revenue and they can't

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do it right. They don't have their fertise the people

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they don't have, and they also don't have the capital right,

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And so they went out and hired that out to

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someone that someone brought them cash that shall solved their

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short term issues and and the hopes are in the

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and and they will grow it better than a university,

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where university's just they're inefficient, right, they're they're not for profit, right,

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they're they're they're they're they're bureaucratic and tenured and all

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that time. None of that works in the business world, right,

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like like like do you want do you want Todd

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Peterson running it or do you want some guy who's

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you know, never had the You want an aggressive guy

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like Todd in there getting it done so and and

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and I really do I think that I think that. Uh,

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I'm not saying I if I was in their shoes,

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given the constraints I think they have, which is the

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legislature's not giving us any more money. In fact, they're

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taking money away. Could you imagine being ramble up there

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saying we're gonna, hey, we just canceled these hundred programs

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over here that all of you professors like, and and

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you know, we took sixty million dollars out of the budget,

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and we're going to give twenty five million dollars to

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the football program. I mean, there'd be anarchy up there,

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so they can't go to their owner. Their donor base

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is I don't know who their donor base is, right,

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I mean, you always hear the names you always hear

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are the names that you've heard for a long time.

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Speaker 3: Yea.

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Speaker 4: So it's not the young, vibrant donor base that BYU has.

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And there's a lot of people that maybe might have

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went to Utah but are now kind of BYU fans.

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There's there's there's quite a bit of that. So I

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think this is just the way they had to do

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it to compete because, in my opinion, if you don't

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have full revshare right now, that's gonna be tough in recruiting.

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Because BYU and Texas Tech, not only do they have

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full rev share, they have another fifteen million dollars on

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top of that, and that's a different.

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Speaker 3: Game, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 2: For those that you know, I was seeing some quotes about,

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you know, the this type of influx of cash from

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private equity is akin to a payday loan. How accurate

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is that? When Michigan board chairman Mark Burns, I don't

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know what his background is, says that that some of

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these these these proposals maybe from private equity firms or

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a can do a payday loan? Is an accurate depiction,

254
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is that a little bit off off beat.

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Speaker 4: I think that that's an in their accurate production because

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that means that they payday loans means you're taking advantage

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of someone, right. I think what they mean by private

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equity being payday loans or if they're trying to say

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that type of thing is number one. Usually they get

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really good returns like payday loans do. But I think

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it's it's uh because you think like you're going to

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give a lot away. Does that make sense? Like at

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the end of this, if they've grown this thing, and

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then the U has to know these like, oh, they

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only gave us so much money and now they you know,

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quadrupled this. And then the other thing that maybe is

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is is they have so much downside protection. Usually, like

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typically private equity deals go one of a few ways, right,

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Either it goes really well and everybody loves it, or

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they load them up with debt and the private equity

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guys might have made a little bit of money and

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then the company is saddled with debt and they go bankrupt.

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But typically the private equity guys kind of lock in

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and in this situation, they've it's probably a pretty nice

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little deal for them. They have limited downside and they

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have the ability to have quite a bit of upside.

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And if they make this work, what private equity really

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likes to do is go duplicate it like they love that.

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There'll be these these thesises out there or these you know,

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we're going to roll up you know there. For a

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while it was or we're going to roll up movie theaters,

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or we're going to roll up you know, car washes

283
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or what they Once someone does something, then they all

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hopp oh, I'm going to go do that because what

285
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they're good at doing is leveraging money. Their inventory is money, right,

286
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That's what they have and expertise. These guys will say,

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we have this expertise in athletics, in marketing and all that,

288
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and so that's what they that's what they have to sell. Right.

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They don't have widgets, they don't have players, they don't

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have any of that type of stuff. What they have

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is money and and smart people, and that's what they're

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going to come in and and but this is going

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to have to grow. What I'd really love to see

294
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is what the downside protection is. There's rumors out there

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that there's a put call, which means that the private

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equity company can put it to the university you taught

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to buy it to buy their share out, or the

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university can call it and buy that. I'd love to

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see what the terms of that are because that would

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tell you really how much risk the private equity firm's taken.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, explain put call a little bit more, if you could,

302
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Forrest Keith, because I've heard the same thing, kind of

303
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this five to seventy year mark of a put call mechanism,

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and I don't think everyone understands that.

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Speaker 4: So it's just simply that you have a predetermined amount

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that you can as a private equity firm. You can

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go to him and say, I'm going to put this

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to you. You have to buy my share back. I'm

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going to put it to you, and this is the price.

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And usually the price is a formula, right, and both

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both sides have to be sophisticated. And then on the

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other side of the university Utah has a call which

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means we can go to you over a period of

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time and we can buy it back from you at

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a price. So typically the put price is less than

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the call price. That makes sense. So the private equity

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firm could put it to you. And I don't know

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if there's a guaranteed return in that, if it's below

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what they paid for, if it's a if it's a

320
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formula or whatever. But you would have to have something

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like that as a private equity firm, because private equity

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firms are funded by a fund, right, So they go

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raise a fund of money and then they invest that

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money from that fund and it's ill liquid for a while.

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But the idea is that five, seven, ten years they've

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sold all the assets of that fund and return the

327
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money to the investors in that fund. So private equity

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can't be tied up in things into perpetuity, and this

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would be something you'd be tied up, you know, if

330
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you're just a normal investor in an athletic department. It's

331
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not like there's a market out there. I mean, maybe

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you could go sell it to someone else, but I

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don't think a private equity firm would do that because

334
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it's not their capital.

335
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Speaker 3: Right.

336
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Speaker 4: They have investors capital, and they have to they have to,

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you know, provide sound business decisions, and they just can't

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go out and just say, oh, we think this is

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cool and we're gonna go put this money in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Keith Nellison here on ESPN the Fan. He's a

341
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co founder and president of vivint and obviously entrepreneur. You're

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CEO of New Vee. You've been a part of the

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athletics world for a long time as well. So I

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really I've enjoyed this conversation because of your expertise too.

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I mean, Otro Capital is sports media and that's their specialty.

346
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It's operator driven apparently and led and so they have,

347
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as you mentioned, very smart people that have been in

348
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this world for a long time, and they have a

349
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lot of funds. They had to have vetted this and said, hey,

350
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there's this is an undervalued entity because it's been run

351
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inefficiently in a bloated, you know, archaic manner, and so

352
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they see an opportunity to make a lot of money

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off of it.

354
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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean they're they

355
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private equity. Those guys are paid to go get returns, right,

356
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that's their job, and they make a lot of money

357
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if they go and get big returns for people. And

358
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so yeah, I have no doubt. But that's why I

359
00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:08,680
think a lot of this money is going to be

360
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invested into I'm just going to call it collateral that

361
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they can sell. Right, the easiest thing to say is

362
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we're going to make We're going to go in and

363
00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:21,119
we're going to invest one hundred million dollars in new

364
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luxury boxes that we can then go and sell for

365
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all this money, or we're going to invest money in

366
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or through our network of marketing people, we can sell

367
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more you know, advertisements and this and that. Or maybe

368
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it's it's underbound. I mean when vividt first, I was gone.

369
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But when they went and named the Delta Center, I

370
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thought it was crazy, right, the amount of money they

371
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were paying to do that, you know, the Viviant Smart

372
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Home Arena, I thought man ended up being tremendous. For

373
00:19:50,319 --> 00:19:55,759
vivit huge, huge, It gave them national brand recognition and

374
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for the guys out there knocking it, it was a

375
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big deal. So you know, there are they know what

376
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the collateral is, they know what the market is for that,

377
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and they must have seen that. But I think they

378
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also saw probably someone that needed this capital. If you

379
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,559
don't go to private equity, if you don't need capital,

380
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,279
or you know a lot of us go to private

381
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equity because we want to take some chips off the table, right,

382
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we don't want.

383
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Speaker 2: To knocking on the University of Utah's door. Utah went

384
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,200
knocking on Otro's door, is what you're saying.

385
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Speaker 4: It might have been both, right, but they needed someone

386
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:36,039
that needed the capital because they're sponsoring organization. Again, I

387
00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:38,720
think the legislature is a big deal of this. I

388
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,599
think the amount of money that was pulled out of

389
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:46,559
higher education, and I just don't think that that the

390
00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:49,039
President Randall can go and say, hey, hey again, we

391
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,599
just cut all these great liberal arts things. The professors

392
00:20:52,599 --> 00:20:55,720
were going crazy, you know, there was all that DEI

393
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stuff with Trump and blah blah blah blah blah, and

394
00:20:58,279 --> 00:21:00,200
then we're going to go ask the legislature for all

395
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,839
this money put to put into athletics. And I just

396
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:03,599
think there's been.

397
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Speaker 3: Amusiizing everything else. So you're taking football out of the equation.

398
00:21:06,759 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 2: How how are these other these these not for profit

399
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:17,599
school government university governed entity sports, right, Like, how how

400
00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:19,400
are they going to survive when you don't have the

401
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,039
subsidization of a football revenue being split and waterfall down

402
00:21:24,039 --> 00:21:26,519
into those other other teams and sports.

403
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 4: You know, Ben, that's the big catch twenty two in

404
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,519
the NCAA, right, is because the way they calculate things,

405
00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:40,720
you know, with Title nine and stuff. If you have football,

406
00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:43,720
you have to have all these other things, right, and

407
00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:46,680
you can't cut those other things that don't generate money

408
00:21:46,759 --> 00:21:50,079
unless you're cutting just men's programs, because then you're out

409
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,440
of compliance with Title nine. Right. So so this is

410
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,039
a this is and then now they got to come

411
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,519
up with twenty million dollars, you know, or at least

412
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:03,079
whatever the amount of money is they have to fund,

413
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,680
you know. And I've had this conversation before, and I

414
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,559
don't want your fans to get mad at me. And

415
00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:09,799
I'm a girl dad, So I'm saying this as a

416
00:22:09,839 --> 00:22:12,119
place the heart of it. But there are only two

417
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:18,519
sports that matter in the revenue and the business of

418
00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:22,400
college athletics, and it's men's basketball and men's football. Everything

419
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:29,680
else is you know, they are there on the coattails

420
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,920
of that from a monetary perspective, and football is definitely

421
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,759
but I mean, I mean, hell, who would have thought

422
00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:43,440
that Ohio State was running a thirty something million dollar deficit?

423
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,240
I mean, you would think that that it must be

424
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,839
just amazing. And you know, I think there is a

425
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,920
difference in inn alumnized basis. I've been amazed and I

426
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,519
believe it's the new president that he allows athletics to

427
00:22:59,559 --> 00:23:02,680
be a heart I'm talking about it b YU. He

428
00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:06,119
allows athletics to be a part of the fundraising. Now

429
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,680
it used to not be, not even close. And I

430
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,119
think that with NIL now being legal and all of that,

431
00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:18,119
the donor base was actually happy to do it right

432
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,480
in the past there and there's been money in sports forever.

433
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,599
I've been out on the recruiting trail with coaches, I've

434
00:23:24,599 --> 00:23:27,640
been to AA tournaments. Anyone who thinks that there's not

435
00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:30,240
money out there is just has their head in this end.

436
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,039
Now it became legal and all of a sudden, BYU

437
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:38,319
has plenty and uh and I just I just think

438
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:44,359
that that that's and b YU always had to function profitably,

439
00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:46,599
you know what I mean, And so I think right

440
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,839
now b YU has a huge advantage. They're a profit,

441
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,240
profit centered business that has always operated that way, and

442
00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:56,319
now they can go out and tap these bigger markets.

443
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,400
And and I think that you have I'm going to

444
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,039
call them like dynamic donor bases. I put BYU in there,

445
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:05,839
I'd probably put like Notre Dame in there, and then

446
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,160
you have the Texas schools, which is just a whole

447
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,839
different It's a whole whole different animal. Like, I've spent

448
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,240
a lot of time in Texas. I do quarter horse racing.

449
00:24:17,319 --> 00:24:20,279
We breed in race and a lot of Texas people

450
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,319
Texas money, and the money down there is just different.

451
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:28,279
There are people that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars,

452
00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:32,799
aren't giving ten percent to their church, and they love

453
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,119
the Texas tech Raiders. I mean, I had ten guys

454
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,440
they're like, hey, I got a box for the game.

455
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,119
You coming down? Like no, I'm going to be with

456
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,680
my daughter, right, But the money in Texas is just stupid.

457
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:47,599
And everybody's going to be trying to catch up with

458
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,000
those three schools down there, I can promise you that.

459
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,039
And they're gonna sell. They're going to sell part of

460
00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:55,640
their program to do it. They're going to sell their

461
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,279
future revenues to try to keep up with this. You know,

462
00:25:00,519 --> 00:25:05,039
just wild wild West and those boys in Texas they're wildcatters, right,

463
00:25:05,079 --> 00:25:07,720
they're oil well drillers. They love the wild wild dress

464
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,599
and risk, that's right, that's right. They take risk and

465
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,119
they love it. And then some of those families they

466
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,640
haven't even spent the money from the nineties. It just

467
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,480
pumps out every day. Every day, it just comes out.

468
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,799
Speaker 2: So generational impact. Ronald's in my area. He's getting me

469
00:25:24,839 --> 00:25:26,599
to go to break. But I have one last thought

470
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,079
for you. Is there any possibility like in that discovery

471
00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:32,519
mode that a private equity firm such as Ultra Capital.

472
00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:36,559
I imagine this is a well respected firm in this in

473
00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:39,720
this industry. Maybe it's a new age, new era industry,

474
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,880
that discovery.

475
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,319
Speaker 3: That that auditing.

476
00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 2: Like there's no way that a university could have like

477
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,480
creative accounting to cook the books and fool you or

478
00:25:50,519 --> 00:25:54,519
something like that. Right about it's revenue generation and like

479
00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:57,240
it's top line revenue, right, Like, that's not that's an

480
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,079
impossibility in all this correct.

481
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, especially if we're just talking about the

482
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,839
revenue coming into athletic program right, it's cash, right, It's

483
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,319
not it's not. Yeah, I couldn't see, you know, there's

484
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,799
not like deferred revenue and all that type of crap.

485
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,880
There isn't all of you know, I don't know how

486
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,519
like luxury box leases and all that type of stuff work,

487
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,160
But I think it's a pretty seasonal type of a business.

488
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,960
Right you have your season tickets, you have your game

489
00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:29,920
day tickets, you have your revenue from from the you know,

490
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,640
most of the media revenue comes through the conference, right,

491
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,000
you have your Bowl games, you have your NCAA tournament.

492
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,720
So most of that revenue is pretty easily seen. And

493
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,759
I couldn't see much cooking of the books. I think

494
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:45,319
it's mostly cash. I think it looks a lot more

495
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,079
like you and mice checking account than it does a sophisticated,

496
00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:53,119
you know, SAFS based business that could be doing or

497
00:26:53,599 --> 00:26:55,440
as we hear all the time out there with these

498
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,920
AI companies, that that sounds a lot like, hey, you

499
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,359
buy from me, I buy me and the money never shared.

500
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,119
I'm pretty sure that this is this is not that way,

501
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:08,519
And in fact, they like those businesses. They like businesses

502
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:13,480
that are cash transparency, right, yeah, and it's cash. They're investors.

503
00:27:13,599 --> 00:27:15,759
I mean, at the end of the day, us as investors,

504
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:18,200
we'll get these things from private equity firms. You're up

505
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,440
twenty two percent. I'm like, well, it doesn't matter until

506
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,799
the end. In the end, I gave you one thousand

507
00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:25,759
dollars and how much did you give me back at

508
00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:27,799
the end, and how long was it out there? And

509
00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:31,720
that'll determine my return. So they like those businesses in

510
00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:33,880
private equity at all. At the end of the day,

511
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,319
at some point in time has to turn into cash.

512
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,279
Or the only time it's not cash is if it

513
00:27:39,319 --> 00:27:43,599
turns into public market stock. They invested in company, the

514
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,839
company went public, and they distributed the shares to the

515
00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:51,119
to the investors. And usually even in that they sell

516
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,039
the shares and distribute the money because they want their money.

517
00:27:54,759 --> 00:27:56,640
They want every little dime they can get.

518
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:02,599
Speaker 2: So yeah, I never understood that the tech startup Balloon

519
00:28:03,079 --> 00:28:04,920
Pop propped up valuation.

520
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,519
Speaker 3: See the one hundred billion dollar value. I'm like, man,

521
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,559
where's what's going on.

522
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's venture capital. Yeah, venture capital is different than

523
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,160
private capital. This private equity capital. They don't take that.

524
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,319
They don't take that risk. They want those returns, but

525
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,240
they don't take that. That's safe, take that risk.

526
00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 3: Keith love it.

527
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,599
Speaker 2: Appreciate you man, Thanks for spending some time in educating

528
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,559
us on all these facets. We appreciate you. Thanks for

529
00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:33,079
hopping on. I'll catch up with against soon.

530
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 4: Brother, All right, take care, there you go.

531
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,079
Speaker 3: That's Keith Nellison. Appreciate him. Former. He was a co

532
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,000
founder and president of Vivid.

533
00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: Also, he's part of the BAU Athletic Director Circle as

534
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,440
well as VU Basketball Donor circle as well.

535
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,119
Speaker 3: He's been in the finance and.

536
00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:54,079
Speaker 2: Entrepreneurship world the tech world here he was a former

537
00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:56,559
CEO and owner operator Believe of.

538
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 3: New v as well. So great insight, great knowledge.

539
00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:02,119
Speaker 2: He's been at those in those board meetings and was

540
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,240
able to give us a lot of detail on this

541
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,359
private equity deal at the University of Utah.

542
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,319
Speaker 3: Let's go to break, Please don't go anywhere.

543
00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:13,319
Speaker 2: Still plenty to get to and I apologize Ronald that

544
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:14,599
we went so long there.

545
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: Love and appreciate you man.

546
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,839
Speaker 2: And by the way, that segment was brought to you

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566
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