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Speaker 2: Oh hello, it's the Kleenex that you forgot to take
Speaker 2: out of your pocket before you ran it through the
Speaker 2: washer and dryer and made four thousand baby clean axes.
Speaker 2: Alli ward back with the final episode of this year's
Speaker 2: spook Tumber series, and true to my promise, they are
Speaker 2: getting a little closer to the heart and the dead
Speaker 2: the closer we approach Halloween. And in hindsight, I don't
Speaker 2: know if that was a good idea for twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: since Halloween is just going to go butt to butt
Speaker 2: with the presidential. But you know what, oddly, death episodes
Speaker 2: tend to be really inspiring and life affirming, so let's
Speaker 2: just press on. I promise by the end of this
Speaker 2: you may be giving your job the finger or reaching
Speaker 2: out to tell people you love them. Mom, Dad, I
Speaker 2: love you. Thanks for making me see look I just
Speaker 2: did it. Okay, But first, a few more thanks to
Speaker 2: all the folks on patreon dot com slash ologies who
Speaker 2: send in questions. You can join that club for as
Speaker 2: little as one single American dollar a month. We set
Speaker 2: a low bar. Come on in and thank you to
Speaker 2: everyone who makes sure you're subscribed, and who rates the show,
Speaker 2: and who writes reviews for me to read on days
Speaker 2: when my anxiety gets better of me, such as Eggs
Speaker 2: Salad nineteen, who wrote listening to Old Dad word is
Speaker 2: like a big, cozy ear hug every episode, even when
Speaker 2: the subject matter scares me slightly, it's just too interesting
Speaker 2: to press pause. Egs Salid nineteen, Buckle up, and thank
Speaker 2: you to everyone who left such sweet ass reviews. All
Speaker 2: of you. I read every single one. I'm earnestly so
Speaker 2: grateful for it. Okay, deserology, So this is a real word,
Speaker 2: and it was coined by a legend in the field,
Speaker 2: like a pioneer of professional funeral fanciness, Noela Pipagno, who
Speaker 2: authored the nineteen eighty three classic Deserology, The Dressing of
Speaker 2: Decedent's Hair. So she was a hairstylist. She just passed
Speaker 2: away about three years ago, and she believed that her
Speaker 2: clients should be served after death as well, and that
Speaker 2: more care and attention needed to be paid to the
Speaker 2: dearly departed to make them look their best as they're bereaved.
Speaker 2: Say goodbye, and I found a clip here she is
Speaker 2: introducing the world to this ology in the early nineteen eighties.
Speaker 3: Dear professionals, for over thirty years, one of my greatest
Speaker 3: rewards has a hairstylist has been my work for funeral homes.
Speaker 3: I would like to share that experience with you. For
Speaker 3: three years, Hairstyling for decedent has been in the making
Speaker 3: the story of techniques, touching all phases of his styling
Speaker 3: for a deceased needs telling. This manual of Deserology describes
Speaker 3: these techniques and details. Understanding your needs in this field
Speaker 3: and catering to them is what this book is all about.
Speaker 2: Thank you, huh legend, So Noela dubbed her work deserology
Speaker 2: because it was a portmanteau, kind of a franken word
Speaker 2: of deceased and hair, so deserology, but it tends to
Speaker 2: capture kind of all the glam given to folks before
Speaker 2: a viewing. And I first heard of this ology probably
Speaker 2: two three years ago actually from Megan Rosenbloom, the anthropodermic
Speaker 2: biocodocologist from last week's episode. And this ologist holds many titles.
Speaker 2: She owns the next generation mortuary support in Phoenix, and
Speaker 2: I was hoping for a few years for like a
Speaker 2: dusty road trip to the desert to take in her
Speaker 2: immaculate lab and smell the rows and rows of solutions
Speaker 2: and bottles and brushes and blushes, but alas a digital
Speaker 2: conversation in the times of COVID would have to do.
Speaker 2: So we hopped on and we chatted all about the
Speaker 2: mortuary business, the particulars of embalming, reconstruction, her most memorable
Speaker 2: cases and some heartwarming ones, whether she's ever perhaps seen
Speaker 2: or maybe felt any presences, and who dominates the funeral
Speaker 2: business spa services for recently deceased, why you should just
Speaker 2: let things go, and well how to effortlessly look your best,
Speaker 2: So lean back on a satin pillow and get ready
Speaker 2: for world renowned desertologist Bonica Trus.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: My name is Monticatoris and I'm a licensed embomber, licensed
Speaker 5: funeral director, post mortem reconstructive specialists, and deserologist.
Speaker 4: I know that's really long, but that's great. I've been
Speaker 4: doing this a lot.
Speaker 5: And the pronouns you use with she my scholarship actually
Speaker 5: that I founded is helps women and transgender individuals gain
Speaker 5: technical skills in funeral service and embalming and management skills.
Speaker 5: So that's something that's important to me to learn how
Speaker 5: that community is what they're expecting from like the older,
Speaker 5: like more like experienced generations too.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned you were a deserologist. Yeah, is that
Speaker 2: a word that gets used to let I know, it
Speaker 2: was invented in the eighties, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, that's right. It's not used a lot.
Speaker 5: If you're like a regular just lay person that has
Speaker 5: no you know, experience in funeral service or embalming.
Speaker 4: It's not hurt a lot.
Speaker 5: So don't feel bad because those funeral directors and bombers
Speaker 5: have not heard of it either.
Speaker 2: Which came first? Were you more interested in makeup or
Speaker 2: were you more interested in funeral services.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think those are really good questions because it
Speaker 5: seems like I get a lot of people asking me
Speaker 5: these questions on my social media and even in my
Speaker 5: email inbox.
Speaker 4: It's like, how did you get involved in this?
Speaker 5: So my background is unique in the sense that I
Speaker 5: was actually licensed cosmetologist before I became a licensed mortician,
Speaker 5: So I had a background already when I went into
Speaker 5: mortuary science in mortuary college, in cosmetology, so the love.
Speaker 2: Of makeup came first here. But in a pretty gender
Speaker 2: conforming society, it's more common for ladies to be hands
Speaker 2: on with contouring than corpses.
Speaker 5: Back then, I did know that deserrology existed because I
Speaker 5: had researched it before I went into mortuary college. But
Speaker 5: I also found out that it was just not very
Speaker 5: common like there because because the industry is so largely
Speaker 5: populated by men, it is a male dominated field. It
Speaker 5: kind of was just not something that was important to
Speaker 5: the professionals that were.
Speaker 4: Running the industry.
Speaker 5: But things are changing, you know, there's more women now.
Speaker 5: Most of our mortuary college class. At the college itself,
Speaker 5: as far as the students, the women outnumber the men now,
Speaker 5: so I think that deserology there's going to be exploration
Speaker 5: in that area as far as post mortem rejuvenation and
Speaker 5: treatments on the body. Now that there's more women, I
Speaker 5: think that that's something that we're going to bring to
Speaker 5: the table that's never been done before.
Speaker 2: It comes to makeup. Is there something about the artistry
Speaker 2: of it that you loved? Were you like a really
Speaker 2: artistic kid? Were you always painting or drawing or what
Speaker 2: do you love about that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's funny you asked that, because I was.
Speaker 5: I started drawing skulls from the time that I was
Speaker 5: very little, So back then, you know, my parents were
Speaker 5: mortified that I was drawing.
Speaker 4: Skulls and dead things.
Speaker 5: They did not understand or like that, and I, honestly,
Speaker 5: I didn't even understand it. I just it was just
Speaker 5: very natural to me. So yes, I was. I've been
Speaker 5: an artist, like since I could remember. I've always loved
Speaker 5: to draw and paint and sculpt and used charcoal and
Speaker 5: I was really involved in art when I was in
Speaker 5: high school. I you know, did all the banners for
Speaker 5: the football team to run through and all that.
Speaker 4: So yeah, And.
Speaker 2: How do you feel in general about holidays when the
Speaker 2: rest of society sort of dips into behind that curtain
Speaker 2: into spookiness. Like I grew up like goth, and so
Speaker 2: whenever I saw everyone being goth for like the week
Speaker 2: of Halloween, was like, come on, we're out here every week.
Speaker 2: But how is it someone who works in funeral services
Speaker 2: and mortuary science? Is that a holiday that you're so
Speaker 2: over or not?
Speaker 5: It's really it's so funny that you asked that, because like,
Speaker 5: growing up, I was always like I was kind of
Speaker 5: a goth chick too, but that was like that was
Speaker 5: just how I always was, Like I was always like
Speaker 5: that when I was from the time that I was
Speaker 5: very little, I just found beauty in the darker things
Speaker 5: in life. Halloween was like my favorite holiday for many
Speaker 5: many years, and as I've gotten older, not just Halloween,
Speaker 5: but like a lot of the holidays. I'm so busy
Speaker 5: with work that my life doesn't stop for Halloween or
Speaker 5: Christmas or Valentine's Day. As a mortician, you know, we don't.
Speaker 4: Have holidays off typically, so.
Speaker 5: It's hard for me to like embrace the spooky vibes
Speaker 5: and stuff because it's my life. And I also I'm
Speaker 5: so busy serving families and other funeral directors.
Speaker 4: But I mean, I try.
Speaker 5: Because I know people expect me to like they expect
Speaker 5: they're like, oh my gosh, you're like the death Queen,
Speaker 5: like you should be have like the spookiest house.
Speaker 4: Every day is Halloween. Halloween in my world. They like
Speaker 4: that ministry song.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, exactly, Yeah, think about yeah. So, and what
Speaker 2: was it like for you to make that transition from
Speaker 2: the cosmetology side of it into mortuary services? What door
Speaker 2: opened to let you combine it to.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So it's really hard as a woman in this industry.
Speaker 5: It's really hard to make headway because it is, like
Speaker 5: I said, it is still predominantly run by men. All
Speaker 5: the leadership positions, the decision makers are still men. So
Speaker 5: you know, I really had to go above and beyond
Speaker 5: what my skill level was, and that if you look
Speaker 5: deep into my background, you'll find that I have a
Speaker 5: very deeply rooted background in technical skills.
Speaker 2: Okay, what does it take to be a Monica Taurus?
Speaker 2: A lot of school and passion. So she first got
Speaker 2: her bachelor's in recreation and event management because funerals they
Speaker 2: are kind of parties after all, And she's been a
Speaker 2: licensed cosmetologist for twenty years and will still an embalming intern.
Speaker 2: She completed a deserology course named Airbrush Artistry for cosmetic
Speaker 2: use in the prep room and restorative art. She's also
Speaker 2: trained in post mortem reconstructive DEMI surgery from the Fountain
Speaker 2: National Academy of Professional Embalming Skills. She's certified as a
Speaker 2: crematory operator and has been recognized in her industry with awards.
Speaker 2: She graced the cover of Funeral Director magazine, and she's
Speaker 2: pioneered hair restoration that her peers now dub the no
Speaker 2: wax Torus technique. So my point, she has serious chops.
Speaker 5: I wanted to make sure that the men that I
Speaker 5: was working alongside understood that my technical skills were on
Speaker 5: point and that they know if they had a question
Speaker 5: for me, I had an answer, because I found that
Speaker 5: that was a stumbling block for a lot of men
Speaker 5: in our industry when it came to cosmetology and makeup.
Speaker 5: So now that I have that skill base, and I've
Speaker 5: completed the program at the Fountain National Academy of Professional
Speaker 5: and Bombing Skills, which is in my industry, that's the
Speaker 5: most elite embalming college.
Speaker 4: That you can go to.
Speaker 5: There's less than sixty individuals worldwide that have completed the
Speaker 5: entire program.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: So yeah, so that's something I'm very proud of.
Speaker 5: I'm one of the very few women that has completed
Speaker 5: that program. When I completed that was when I was
Speaker 5: really I gained respect in my industry and my community.
Speaker 5: And at that point, that's when people started listening to
Speaker 5: me and saying, Okay, maybe she has something to say
Speaker 5: and there is value in what she's talking about and
Speaker 5: now teaching because I teach it as well.
Speaker 2: Should you choose, you too can sign up for her
Speaker 2: easily accessible online courses such as Everything you ever wanted
Speaker 2: to know about embalming but we're afraid to ask, Midnight
Speaker 2: Madness and prep Room Tour, Progressive Deserology for the modern embalmer,
Speaker 2: and the toughest subjects like embalming the infant death. Which
Speaker 2: next time you're having a challenging day at work, just
Speaker 2: think what deserologists are going through. Leave behind the scenes
Speaker 2: of funeral homes all over the world, but actually what
Speaker 2: is happening I guess backstage in the VIP area on
Speaker 2: stainless steel slabs. And this is a stupid question, but
Speaker 2: a lot of us do not know how to embalm someone.
Speaker 2: Can you run through? Kind of in a nutshell, because
Speaker 2: I think so many people are it's such a mystery
Speaker 2: what happens.
Speaker 5: It is what happens when, what happens, right, happens, what.
Speaker 4: Happens after Monica gets the call? Yeah, absolutely, And I
Speaker 4: think it's not just some people.
Speaker 5: I would say like ninety nine point ninety nine percent
Speaker 5: of people do not understand what I do for a living.
Speaker 5: So they know that I work around dead bodies, but
Speaker 5: they don't really understand the process. So embalming is comprised
Speaker 5: of three basic steps. The first part is disinfection of
Speaker 5: the body, which is very relevant in our world right
Speaker 5: now with the pandemic.
Speaker 4: That's the first step.
Speaker 5: The second step is preservation of the tissues and the
Speaker 5: body itself. And the third step is restoration, which is
Speaker 5: the makeup part, that is the cosmetology part.
Speaker 4: So there's three steps. Yeah, very simply put.
Speaker 2: And those post mortem rituals and procedures have been happening
Speaker 2: for thousands of years, including mummification and other ways of
Speaker 2: preserving bodies, but injecting the arteries started in about the
Speaker 2: thirteen hundreds, but it really gained popularity in the US
Speaker 2: during the Civil War when fallen Union soldiers needed to
Speaker 2: be preserved for shipment home to be seen and then
Speaker 2: buried by their families. But back then, though they used arsenic,
Speaker 2: they don't anymore. But once again, the whole embalming process
Speaker 2: is more than just a picture of fluids displacing blood.
Speaker 2: So let's break down those three steps further. There's disinfection, preservation,
Speaker 2: and restoration.
Speaker 5: The actual embalming process itself is you know, bathing.
Speaker 4: That's the disinfection process.
Speaker 5: We bathe the body, We disinfect the body with the
Speaker 5: appropriate disinfectants that we use to clear off all of
Speaker 5: the bacteria, the microbes, anything that's going to harm the
Speaker 5: enbomber or the family. We get rid of all that
Speaker 5: stuff that goes down the drain, and then we move
Speaker 5: forward into the preservation portion, which is where we actually are.
Speaker 5: We're trying to remove the bacteria rich blood from the
Speaker 5: body and replace it with a disinfected based preservative.
Speaker 6: And then I see the disinfectant where knocks it out
Speaker 6: in a minute one minute, And is there a way
Speaker 6: we can do something like that by injection inside.
Speaker 2: Or or it's not bleach though or our snack anymore.
Speaker 2: So what is the disinfection based magic potion?
Speaker 4: Which is formaldehyde? That's the most I guess.
Speaker 5: I would say the chemical that we have found so
Speaker 5: far that.
Speaker 4: Works the best for that process.
Speaker 5: So if we can get the blood out and replace
Speaker 5: it with that chemical formaldehyde, then the body is preserved
Speaker 5: and able to it basically buys us time right between
Speaker 5: the decomposition process and going back to dust.
Speaker 4: So that's the process.
Speaker 5: The blood goes down the drain, All of the fluids
Speaker 5: that come out of the body.
Speaker 4: Go down the drain.
Speaker 5: A lot of people are really surprised to hear that,
Speaker 5: but that's that's what happens. So they're worried about contaminants, right, like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, all this stuff's going down the drain.
Speaker 5: And the one thing I want to say to all
Speaker 5: those people is they remember that we're working with disinfectants. Okay,
Speaker 5: so yes, it's going down the drain, but it's also
Speaker 5: it's disinfecting as it's going in the drain.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So you know, formaldehyde, once it comes in contact with protein,
Speaker 5: which is blood, and you know, everything that our body produces,
Speaker 5: it's returning to its organic state. So as far as
Speaker 5: like fear of contaminants and contaminating our soils and our
Speaker 5: water supply and all that.
Speaker 4: That's false. So that's a misconception that a lot of
Speaker 4: people have.
Speaker 2: Okay, quick aside, what else is in ebalmbing fluid. Well,
Speaker 2: it's a cocktail, if you will, of formaldehyde, methanol, ethanol,
Speaker 2: and other solvents and wedding agents. And in the prep
Speaker 2: room it's stored in something that looks kind of like
Speaker 2: if you had a frozen margarita machine, and each human
Speaker 2: person needs about two to three gallons of it flushed
Speaker 2: into and filling up their blood tunnels. But let's chat
Speaker 2: about formaldehyde. It's a naturally occurring compound. It's c H
Speaker 2: two zero. It's all over the earth. We even produce
Speaker 2: some of it naturally in our bodies. And in its
Speaker 2: pure form, it's an invisible gas, and it has a
Speaker 2: smell that's been described as sweetly, aniseptic, musty, and even
Speaker 2: pickle like. But if it's in a solution, typically it's
Speaker 2: in the form of formuline, and it's used in a
Speaker 2: ton of industrial settings, especially in making resins and particle boards,
Speaker 2: but also in carrot and hair treatments like Brazilian blowouts,
Speaker 2: which I have had many, and I've been handed a
Speaker 2: rubber respirator at the salon, which is concerning. Yet I
Speaker 2: continue to do it despite formaldehyde being technically listed as cerinogenic,
Speaker 2: so folks who work with it are often at a
Speaker 2: greater risk for certain types of nasofare andngeal cancers and
Speaker 2: blood cancers and other irritations. But it certainly gets the
Speaker 2: job done when it comes to particle boards, glossy hair,
Speaker 2: and good look in dead people.
Speaker 5: And then finally the third part, the restoration part, the
Speaker 5: makeup part, that's the beautification and rejuvenation portion.
Speaker 4: That that's the part that the family gets to see
Speaker 4: at the.
Speaker 2: End, notice the lifelike.
Speaker 5: Pigmentation and not to bash in you guys, So I
Speaker 5: don't want to do that. I learned from mostly men,
Speaker 5: but I feel like women have a lot to bring.
Speaker 4: We have a lot to bring to the table in
Speaker 4: that portion because.
Speaker 5: We are typically as far as gender roles have concerned
Speaker 5: for all this time, you know, we've been kind of
Speaker 5: pushed into that like, oh, you need to wear makeup,
Speaker 5: and you all of the marketing is like, oh, buy
Speaker 5: makeup and wear makeup and do your nails and do
Speaker 5: your hair, so you know, we already have this preconceived
Speaker 5: notion of what beauty looks like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, and it's a little different for I think
Speaker 4: men and women.
Speaker 2: So this whole time in a male dominated field, is
Speaker 2: there like Harold sixty five year old and balmer doing
Speaker 2: makeup on you know, like a nineteen year old deceased patient.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, that's that's the standard right now.
Speaker 2: That's so weird. Yeah, and I'm sorry for this frank reaction,
Speaker 2: but I'm just saying, imagine a nineteen year old chick
Speaker 2: walking into Sephora and getting a makeover by someone who
Speaker 2: doesn't really like or wear makeup themselves. It's maybe a
Speaker 2: little weird, but it would be super weird if you
Speaker 2: looked around and everyone who worked at Sephora was also
Speaker 2: like that guy. You might be like, what's keeping ladies
Speaker 2: from doing this job? It's not weird because I'm sure
Speaker 2: Harold is good at it, but it's also like, for
Speaker 2: that to be a male dominated, well, activity, seems so
Speaker 2: odd to think about.
Speaker 4: It is it is?
Speaker 5: And I think that's honestly, And like I said, I
Speaker 5: don't want to bash any.
Speaker 4: Men or any of the people that have come before me.
Speaker 5: But I feel like that's why cremation has gotten this
Speaker 5: huge rise and aquamation is like this big thing right
Speaker 5: now because people got sick of like they got sick
Speaker 5: of that, you know, they got sick of people that
Speaker 5: weren't They're paying all.
Speaker 4: This money for the service and the skill set wasn't there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and a lot of the families were like, I
Speaker 5: can do a better job on my mom's makeup. So,
Speaker 5: like I said, I don't want to disparage anyone's skill
Speaker 5: set or you know, their their background or their history
Speaker 5: or whatever. But I think you know, things are changing,
Speaker 5: and you know, like anything else, any kind of consumer
Speaker 5: product or service out there, like you.
Speaker 4: Need to know who to go to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you need to know who to.
Speaker 5: Call, like you have you know what hairstylist you want
Speaker 5: to go to, you know where you go to get
Speaker 5: your nails done, and when someone passes, like that's part
Speaker 5: of it. You know, you need to know who to
Speaker 5: go to, what's their skill set, what do they specialize in,
Speaker 5: who's the person in the back room right right?
Speaker 2: And do you feel like in the work that you're doing,
Speaker 2: do you feel like you're serving the family and the
Speaker 2: friends and the loved ones of the person who's passed,
Speaker 2: or do you feel like you're doing it for the
Speaker 2: person on the table.
Speaker 5: That's a really great question and I'm so glad that
Speaker 5: you asked that. For me personally, I feel like I
Speaker 5: am doing my work for the family and the friends
Speaker 5: and the loved ones and the people that need that
Speaker 5: opportunity to say goodbye. The person on the table is
Speaker 5: it's not necessarily for them, right Basically, what I'm trying
Speaker 5: to do is to preserve their dignity and that may
Speaker 5: have been lost through cancer or a traumatic car accident,
Speaker 5: a murder, whatever. So that part, yes, I am doing
Speaker 5: it for that person on the table, absolutely, But in
Speaker 5: the big picture, everything that I do, and you know,
Speaker 5: especially for those really difficult cases, I don't focus on
Speaker 5: that person on the table. I focus mentally emotionally on
Speaker 5: the family, like I have to do whatever I need
Speaker 5: to do to help this family.
Speaker 4: So that's how I separate that.
Speaker 5: You know, you have to separate your emotion when you're
Speaker 5: when you're working, especially on a traumatic case or a baby.
Speaker 2: Oh I bet what types When you say a difficult
Speaker 2: case or traumatic case, what kind of cases come to
Speaker 2: you or what's been a challenge that you really weren't
Speaker 2: sure you could get through that you ended up really
Speaker 2: serving a family.
Speaker 4: Well for well, there's so many I mean, there's just
Speaker 4: so many ways that people die.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 5: Cancer can be traumatic for people. It can be a
Speaker 5: traumatic process. But also a suicide, gunshot, wounds, hangings, overdoses,
Speaker 5: you know, that's a really a difficult process.
Speaker 4: It ravages the body.
Speaker 5: But then there's also infants and bodies that are decomposed.
Speaker 4: They're found, you know.
Speaker 5: So there's there's a lot of different types of scenarios
Speaker 5: and we deal with as in bombers, we deal with
Speaker 5: the worst or.
Speaker 4: The worst, right, So you don't get to pick and.
Speaker 5: Choose and say, well, I'm only gonna work on little
Speaker 5: old ladies that died of natural causes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm from a Catholic family and so
Speaker 2: we for some reason, Catholics love an open casket. Have
Speaker 2: there ever been cases where the family has wanted to
Speaker 2: say goodbye visually? And it's it's something that maybe you
Speaker 2: wouldn't advise.
Speaker 4: I personally recommend.
Speaker 5: I always recommend for families to view their loved one,
Speaker 5: even if the trauma is severe and it might not
Speaker 5: necessarily be for you know, two hundred.
Speaker 4: People, but for those people that were closest to that person.
Speaker 5: A lot of times those cases, in particular, where there
Speaker 5: is of your trauma are the ones where the families need.
Speaker 4: To say goodbye. They need to be able to accept what.
Speaker 5: Has happened, because a lot of times it's a shock.
Speaker 5: You know, they go to work in the morning and
Speaker 5: they don't come home. I see death differently in that
Speaker 5: way where I think, especially here in America, we're so
Speaker 5: focused on looks, right, it's.
Speaker 4: All about the way you look.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And we're so focused on that, it's hard for
Speaker 5: people to understand that it's not about that.
Speaker 4: When you have that one last opportunity to say.
Speaker 5: Goodbye, like that's it, that's all you have, that one
Speaker 5: last opportunity. For example, if you knew that you're never
Speaker 5: going to get to see your mom again, she was like,
Speaker 5: oh no, you can't come over because my hair is
Speaker 5: a mess and my house is trashed and whatever. Like,
Speaker 5: can we know it's not about that, It's like, this
Speaker 5: is your last chance. For most people, I think they
Speaker 5: don't care. They just want to be able to say goodbye.
Speaker 5: They're like, you know what, I don't care what she
Speaker 5: looks like.
Speaker 4: Or whatever.
Speaker 5: I just want to be able to put my hand
Speaker 5: on her hand and say goodbye, say what I need
Speaker 5: to say.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: So, I'm a big advocate for viewing before cremation or
Speaker 5: burial or whatever it is. I think it's extremely important
Speaker 5: for the grief process and that journey.
Speaker 2: And I figured there must be folks out there grieving.
Speaker 2: It's been a tough year and we all will grieve
Speaker 2: at some point. So I looked up some coping advice
Speaker 2: from the American Psychological Association and they cited some research
Speaker 2: that most people can recover from loss on their own
Speaker 2: through the passage of time if they have social support
Speaker 2: and healthy habits. But also they stress that there's no
Speaker 2: normal time period for someone to grieve. It's really individual.
Speaker 2: But one thing that was reassuring was they said that
Speaker 2: research tells us that it can also be the catalyst
Speaker 2: for a renewed sense of meaning that offers purpose and
Speaker 2: direction to life. They say it can really help to
Speaker 2: talk with friends or colleagues about your grief, and isolation
Speaker 2: or avoidance of your support systems can just and really
Speaker 2: delay healing. So talk. It's okay to talk, and remember
Speaker 2: the person also feel your feelings and allow them, even
Speaker 2: if it's a range of emotions from anger to sadness. Also,
Speaker 2: take care of yourself, get sleep and eat well, and
Speaker 2: get some exercise if you can. They say. It also
Speaker 2: might help to reach out to other people grieving the
Speaker 2: same person, as helping someone else can get you through
Speaker 2: the grieving process too. And to remember and celebrate the
Speaker 2: life of the deceased. Take the chance to remember milestones
Speaker 2: in their lives, birthdays, anniversaries even after they're gone. And
Speaker 2: you may also want to seek out a counselor to
Speaker 2: help you chat about and process what you're going through.
Speaker 2: And though it may be very individual, Monica says that
Speaker 2: a visitation can help with accepting and processing the loss.
Speaker 2: She's found. Is that possible with COVID patients And do
Speaker 2: you get a lot of COVID patients?
Speaker 4: Absolutely so.
Speaker 5: And you know this has been something that hasn't it's
Speaker 5: so new and people don't understand it. So you have
Speaker 5: to remember go back to what I was talking about
Speaker 5: in those three steps to the embalming process. The first
Speaker 5: and most important step is disinfection. So by disinfecting the body,
Speaker 5: we're completely eradicating any of that.
Speaker 4: Virus that's intact or active or whatever.
Speaker 5: Right, So it's actually more dangerous to have unembombed bodies
Speaker 5: laying around than embalmed bodies when it comes to COVID.
Speaker 5: In my personal opinion, the families can absolutely see their
Speaker 5: loved one who has been embalmed. Absolutely now touching and
Speaker 5: kissing and all that. I wouldn't recommend, just like now
Speaker 5: you wear a mask and all that.
Speaker 4: But for families your.
Speaker 5: Loved one dies of COVID, absolutely you can see your
Speaker 5: loved one, and I would recommend embalming for those cases. Specifically,
Speaker 5: if you have a loved one that has died of COVID, embalming,
Speaker 5: I would say, yes, please do that, because if, like
Speaker 5: I said, if you're going to let that infection fester
Speaker 5: and whatever, there's more of a chance there may be
Speaker 5: spread or the people that are working on the body
Speaker 5: may be affected, the embalmbers themselves, the fun directors, the transporters.
Speaker 5: So yes, they are difficult cases, absolutely, but we deal
Speaker 5: with many difficult cases like that. So you have to remember,
Speaker 5: as in bombers, we are the most prepared for these
Speaker 5: types of cases than really anyone else. So I deal
Speaker 5: with merca cases, I deal with all types of infectious diseases,
Speaker 5: not just COVID diseases that I'm way more afraid of
Speaker 5: than COVID, to.
Speaker 2: Be honest, And you've never caught anything from I haven't.
Speaker 5: But I also I'm an advocate for using personal protection equipment,
Speaker 5: and I'm one of the few embombers I think that's
Speaker 5: really public that has been using a full face respirator
Speaker 5: for years.
Speaker 4: I've been using one for years, and I teach that
Speaker 4: in my embombing classes for my students as well.
Speaker 2: Monica, for a visual, has high cheekbones and eyebrows arched
Speaker 2: kind of like a fifties pin up. One side of
Speaker 2: her black hair is shaved at the temple, and she's
Speaker 2: usually working in hot pink scrubs or a lab code
Speaker 2: with her skull and crossbones company logo embroidered in fusia,
Speaker 2: and her smile is under there, but it's obscured by
Speaker 2: the full face respirator. She usually wears a clear face
Speaker 2: shield as well. But she's more stylish draining fluids than
Speaker 2: I am. Right now, as I'm recording this, I.
Speaker 5: Promise I wear shrubs, and I wear appropriate attire and
Speaker 5: the gowns and gloves and all that, so I feel
Speaker 5: very prepared to deal with any of the infectious and
Speaker 5: blood worm pathogens.
Speaker 2: Has your work changed the way that you look at
Speaker 2: your own life or living in the moment or brutality
Speaker 2: or post mortem plans.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, totally absolutely, Oh for sure. Like I try
Speaker 5: as to whole grudges so much anymore. It's I Yeah,
Speaker 5: I try to live for today. Honestly, I really do,
Speaker 5: like I say I love you to pretty much everyone,
Speaker 5: because you know, I never want to, like have that
Speaker 5: be the last call.
Speaker 4: And I didn't say I love you to like my
Speaker 4: friends and the people that I really do care about,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 5: And I try not to get too wrapped up in
Speaker 5: the things that really in the big picture that aren't important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: So Yeah, I'm also not as that's the word.
Speaker 5: I think people get wrapped up with like material things
Speaker 5: and buying this and buying that, And I think I
Speaker 5: value like my friendships and my family a lot more
Speaker 5: than that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the old you can't take it with you time
Speaker 2: of a week?
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, Can I ask you listener questions?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, let's do it, Okay.
Speaker 2: The first a little break to hear about sponsors of
Speaker 2: the show giving you some deals which lets us donate
Speaker 2: to a charity of the ologists choosing. And this week
Speaker 2: easy Peasy Monica Uptop mentioned her scholarship fund which is
Speaker 2: called High Precious, which she established to help break down social,
Speaker 2: racial and political barriers and offer female and transgender individuals
Speaker 2: the opportunity to gain advanced technical training in management skills
Speaker 2: in funeral service. And she named it High Precious because
Speaker 2: that is how one misogynist troll patronizingly greeted her on
Speaker 2: the Internet, so she reclaimed it and she called the
Speaker 2: whole thing high Precious, which I love. So yes, a
Speaker 2: donation will be made to High Precious and do check
Speaker 2: out the link in the show notes to find out
Speaker 2: more about it. And it was made possible by the
Speaker 2: following sponsors.
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Speaker 2: Okay, now on to your dark and sunny and carry questions. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I let them know you're coming on the show.
Speaker 4: Oh great.
Speaker 2: So they submitted like hundreds of questions and I've boiled
Speaker 2: them down to the awesome. So Melanie Baker, Jessica Morgan,
Speaker 2: Emily Tudorace, Amy Meager, Grace Robichet, Lynn and Dori Jennifer Lowe,
Speaker 2: a lot of them all had questions about the type
Speaker 2: of makeup that you use. And they want to know
Speaker 2: if you use your own makeup or if you use
Speaker 2: makeup that belonged to the deceased. Are there different like
Speaker 2: specific brands if you're working with a corpse, So yeah,
Speaker 2: what do you use? What's in your kit?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Okay, So everybody wants to know this, So every case
Speaker 5: is different for those that are listening, every case is different.
Speaker 5: And I do always ask for the family to bring
Speaker 5: that person's makeup in because that is super helpful. Like,
Speaker 5: you know, if you're a woman that wears makeup, you
Speaker 5: know it's like that a lot of a lot of
Speaker 5: women's lifeline right, So yes, absolutely, I ask for people
Speaker 5: to bring in the person's makeup. However, dead bodies that
Speaker 5: we use makeup that is non thermogenic, and that's what
Speaker 5: works best on dead bodies. There is no heat being
Speaker 5: produced by the body, so a lot of the makeups
Speaker 5: that we use as women in our everyday lives don't.
Speaker 4: Really have the same reaction.
Speaker 5: So what I try to do is I use my
Speaker 5: non thermogenic makeups. Right now, I've started to use a
Speaker 5: product by Lola seven. So lady, she's a funeral director
Speaker 5: and a bomber. She's created her own makeup line and.
Speaker 4: It's absolutely fabulous. I've never used it.
Speaker 5: I'm not just plugging her like I've never used a
Speaker 5: makeup like that, because it actually smells really, really beautiful.
Speaker 4: She's done a really nice job.
Speaker 5: So I do use Lola seven for some very difficult
Speaker 5: coverage issues when there's bruising or post mortem staining.
Speaker 2: Post mortem staining, I just looked it up. AKA liver
Speaker 2: mortis or blue death is when blood pools in parts
Speaker 2: of the body and leaves a dark modeled purple splash
Speaker 2: under the skin. Why to kind of make sure that
Speaker 2: clients on her table get the good stuff to cover
Speaker 2: it up because drugstores at concealer get out of here,
Speaker 2: you're not going to do the job.
Speaker 5: And then I also use my traditional mortuary pigments that
Speaker 5: our old school chemical companies make. Dodge Company is known
Speaker 5: for their cosmetics line, and I use theirs quite.
Speaker 4: A bit as a base.
Speaker 5: And I also use a product called Necrometics and PMRC,
Speaker 5: so those are kind of like special effects makeup to
Speaker 5: cover any kind of major like camouflage. I also use
Speaker 5: an airbrush when it's needed, and the airbrush I don't
Speaker 5: use for like bridle makeup, I use that for like
Speaker 5: really severe cases, traumatic cases where I need a good coverage.
Speaker 5: So what I try to do is I use my
Speaker 5: mortuary makeup to create a foundation for a lifelike appearance.
Speaker 5: So I basically am just bringing them up to an
Speaker 5: appearance of like maybe when they got out of the
Speaker 5: shower and they're getting ready to put their makeup on,
Speaker 5: and then after that is when I take their makeup
Speaker 5: bag out and then I work my magic with their makeup.
Speaker 2: Oh do you ever have to ask the family like
Speaker 2: of these lips, how do you know if someone would
Speaker 2: want a bold lip for the goodbye or like a
Speaker 2: peachy nude exactly.
Speaker 5: So what I try to do is when I when
Speaker 5: I sit down with the family, I ask them for pictures,
Speaker 5: and I say, find a picture that you really like
Speaker 5: your mom's, your sisters, your brother, whoever, how you really
Speaker 5: like their makeup, and you bring me that picture and
Speaker 5: I'm going to try and recreate that. So if you
Speaker 5: want your mom's hurt to look this certain way but
Speaker 5: her makeup to look another way, then I need two different.
Speaker 4: Pictures, right So, and families are pretty good about it.
Speaker 5: They usually bring in one picture and they're like, you know,
Speaker 5: this was like my brother's wedding or something, and my
Speaker 5: mom absolutely loved the way that the makeup artists did
Speaker 5: her makeup. Or this is how my mom always wore
Speaker 5: her makeup.
Speaker 4: Can you do it like this? And that's what I
Speaker 4: try to accomplish.
Speaker 2: Kyla Kelly and Naomi Tassane both wanted to know if
Speaker 2: family members ever request to do their makeup, and that's
Speaker 2: something that even even happens.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so there are a lot of family members that
Speaker 5: do want to participate.
Speaker 4: And I actually teach a class. It's called the.
Speaker 5: Family assisted dress experience, and I teach other funeral directors
Speaker 5: how to engage families so that the family can be
Speaker 5: a part of that process. Start teaching that class in
Speaker 5: twenty fifteen, and basically it teaches the funeral director how
Speaker 5: to guide the family so that the family can do
Speaker 5: the hair and the makeup and the nails.
Speaker 4: And even dress their loved one.
Speaker 5: So but that's a service, like you pay for that,
Speaker 5: you know, you pay your funeral director for that service.
Speaker 5: But yes, absolutely families can be a part of that
Speaker 5: and dress their loved one and do the makeup and
Speaker 5: all that. The one thing I would recommend is that
Speaker 5: you know, they ask that the funeral director or embomber
Speaker 5: to help them through that process because it's not only
Speaker 5: technically can be difficult with discoloration after death and the
Speaker 5: condition of the skin after death, that can be difficult,
Speaker 5: and an embomber is trained on that, you know, on
Speaker 5: how to work with those challenges, but also emotionally, like
Speaker 5: you think you can do it and then you get
Speaker 5: in there and you're like, oh, man, I don't know
Speaker 5: if I can do this. Yeah, So that's why I'm
Speaker 5: going to go back to like finding the right professional
Speaker 5: finding the right funeral home and funeral director, just like
Speaker 5: you would find a dentist or a doctor or a
Speaker 5: hairstylist and have them in your back pocket, like you
Speaker 5: know already this is the person who is going to
Speaker 5: take care of my family or you know, my loved one.
Speaker 5: It's hard to think about, it really is, But when
Speaker 5: you're going through it, you don't want to be having
Speaker 5: to make those decisions at that time.
Speaker 2: So read some Yale pages. Ask your most goth friends
Speaker 2: or maybe the people in your life who like voted
Speaker 2: early and have an earthquake kit and just generally have
Speaker 2: their shit together. Have you ever had anyone interview you
Speaker 2: while they are still alive? What do you mean, like
Speaker 2: to say, hey, things aren't looking so great?
Speaker 5: Oh, yes, you to do it, like like for pre
Speaker 5: arrangements and whatnot. Absolutely, so, like many people don't realize
Speaker 5: that funeral directors often do pre arrangements, and so you
Speaker 5: can pre arrange your funeral with your funeral directors. So absolutely,
Speaker 5: I have families that come in and talk to me
Speaker 5: and say, hey, Monica, I want to plan everything now
Speaker 5: so that.
Speaker 4: You know exactly what to do when I die.
Speaker 2: And so like I looked amazing here, I'd like this
Speaker 2: y pokey.
Speaker 5: I m h. Absolutely, And they choose everything. They can
Speaker 5: choose their casket or whether they want a shroud, or
Speaker 5: if they they want a bronze casket, or if they
Speaker 5: want to be cremated, and like we do everything, We
Speaker 5: all the details.
Speaker 4: You pick the urn.
Speaker 5: Say you don't want a funeral, hearsey, I want to
Speaker 5: be in a horse drawn carriage.
Speaker 3: Oh fancy, fancy.
Speaker 4: So we can plan all that in advance.
Speaker 5: You can even pay for it in advance too, with
Speaker 5: like funeral insurance.
Speaker 4: A lot of people don't know that. But the one
Speaker 4: thing I would say is that you don't have to
Speaker 4: pay to do funeral arrangements.
Speaker 5: And a lot of people have that misconception that they
Speaker 5: have to pay for their funeral if they go and
Speaker 5: talk to a funeral director about that, and that's not true.
Speaker 4: Oh you can yeah, yeah, yeah, you can go in
Speaker 4: and you may.
Speaker 5: And funeral directors love that because then it's just so
Speaker 5: much like they already know what to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they already know.
Speaker 5: They pull your file and this is what you know
Speaker 5: Shelley wants and we already talked about it. Her signature's
Speaker 5: right here. That takes the pressure off the family. They
Speaker 5: don't have to make decisions.
Speaker 4: All they have to do is pay.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, just pick up the tab pre ordered it, Yep,
Speaker 2: yep ordering It's like ordering Indian food. Yeah, he chose everything.
Speaker 2: Just pick up the tab.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: You can even do it online.
Speaker 5: I have colleagues that do it online now, so families
Speaker 5: don't even.
Speaker 4: Have to go in the funeral home.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yeah, so smart.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 2: On that note, I got so many questions from so
Speaker 2: many amazing listeners. Jacob Blizzard first time question asker, have
Speaker 2: you ever prepared a full clown in makeup? Jeffrey Bradshaw
Speaker 2: wants to know if anyone ever asked to be made
Speaker 2: up as a character. There is one question JV Hampton
Speaker 2: V sant let's know if I wanted to say be
Speaker 2: Bury looking like a Dolly Parton drag impersonator? Is that
Speaker 2: a request? Tarn wants to know if they could go
Speaker 2: out and drag makeup? And I really loved this one question.
Speaker 2: Shout out to patron Felix Wolf who asked, do you
Speaker 2: try to mimic the makeup style or aesthetic of the
Speaker 2: deceased as a queer? Freako I would want my makeup
Speaker 2: to reflect what I wore in my life and not
Speaker 2: an idea of normal makeup. Felix, I love you. Yeah
Speaker 2: is that cool?
Speaker 4: So it's totally cool.
Speaker 5: But like I said, you have to find the right
Speaker 5: funeral director, right, because so politics play a big deal
Speaker 5: in everyone's life. For everyone is you want to make
Speaker 5: sure that you're going to somebody who understands like what
Speaker 5: you want, and that they also respect your own views
Speaker 5: and the way that you live your lifestyle. So like,
Speaker 5: for example, my best friend David passed away from cancer
Speaker 5: a few years ago.
Speaker 4: When they told him you're.
Speaker 5: Terminally ill, he came to me and he's like, I
Speaker 5: want to plan all this out, and so we.
Speaker 4: Started doing that. And he was gay. He was a
Speaker 4: gay man, but he was like not just a gay man, he.
Speaker 5: Was like a fabulous gay man and like everybody knew
Speaker 5: that his nickname was Barbie and yeah, so everybody knew
Speaker 5: how fabulous David was. And I wanted to make sure
Speaker 5: that he went out just as fabulous as he could.
Speaker 4: And so we talked about that and he's like Wonica.
Speaker 5: He's like, please, oh my god, please do not let
Speaker 5: me go out without a tan and because he loved
Speaker 5: to be tan, and he lived in Florida and he
Speaker 5: loved to be tan. And you know, he was like,
Speaker 5: make sure that my highlights are on point, and please
Speaker 5: make sure that I have a tan. And so we
Speaker 5: did that. Like I made sure that I gave him
Speaker 5: a spray tan.
Speaker 4: And he wanted glitter all around his suit.
Speaker 5: He had a white suit that he picked out and
Speaker 5: this like beautiful, bright colored shirt.
Speaker 4: I made sure he had glitter on the flower.
Speaker 5: I made him a flower corsage and it had like
Speaker 5: glitter on it, and made sure that his highlights were
Speaker 5: like on point. Yes, if you want to look like
Speaker 5: Dolly Parton, you can do that, but you need to
Speaker 5: call him, Monica, you.
Speaker 4: Need to call me. You need to say, you know,
Speaker 4: you need to find a funeral director. Really though.
Speaker 5: You need to find a funeral director that understands that
Speaker 5: and that they can offer you that service.
Speaker 4: That you want. So it just takes a little bit
Speaker 4: of legwork, but absolutely it can be done.
Speaker 5: If you want to look like a cartoon character, if
Speaker 5: you want to go out and cosplay or whatever, like,
Speaker 5: yes you can do that, but you need it first
Speaker 5: of all, you need to express that to your family
Speaker 5: and make sure that your family understands. You need to
Speaker 5: have it in writing, and you need to find a
Speaker 5: funeral director that's going to honor your wishes and that
Speaker 5: has the skills to do that, because you know, not
Speaker 5: everybody can do drag makeup.
Speaker 4: It's not easy.
Speaker 2: You're born naked and the rest is drag.
Speaker 5: So no, yeah, it's not easy. So you want to
Speaker 5: make sure that you have the right people in place.
Speaker 5: If that really truly is your wish, you need to
Speaker 5: put it in writing. Make sure that you have the
Speaker 5: right professionals and place, and that your family fully understands
Speaker 5: your requests.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Several people Tammy Forton, Molly rose, Ky Siebert, Heidi
Speaker 2: stootion Off and Elaine Lemarande. Who's the first time question
Speaker 2: asker wants to know HBO series six Feet Under? Did
Speaker 2: they get it right? Was it flim flam?
Speaker 4: Why do people have to die? It's Mike life important?
Speaker 2: Hew. Do you wants to know if you ever imagine
Speaker 2: having full on conversations with the deceased or Tammy wants
Speaker 2: to know if do you ever just talk to the
Speaker 2: person while you're doing them up, either out louder in
Speaker 2: your head.
Speaker 5: Yeah, those are all like really common questions that I get.
Speaker 4: First of all, I'm sorry to disappoint you all, I
Speaker 4: never watched Six Feet Under. Sorry, I just don't. I
Speaker 4: don't watch shows like that. I'm like, I'm like a
Speaker 4: super nerd.
Speaker 5: Like I watch like really like.
Speaker 4: Like documentaries on like the history of food or something like.
Speaker 5: I'm really into nutrition and fitness, so I typically spend time, like.
Speaker 4: You know, watching those kind of shows or like history.
Speaker 5: So sorry, I don't know if they got it right
Speaker 5: or not. As far as conversations with the dead, yeah,
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 4: I do have.
Speaker 5: Conversations with them sometimes. My most favorite one would be like, uh.
Speaker 4: You know, help help me, help you.
Speaker 5: You know, if I have a body that's you know,
Speaker 5: giving me a hard time and I'm not able to
Speaker 5: like really get the effect that I'm going for, I
Speaker 5: tell them like help me help you, or you know.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I'll say, you know, we're gonna get you where
Speaker 5: you're going, Like I'm gonna help your family through this,
Speaker 5: and you're gonna look beautiful. That's something I always I
Speaker 5: do a lot is I'll be like, you're gonna look
Speaker 5: so great, You're really beautiful.
Speaker 4: And I don't know if that's more for me, But yeah,
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 5: I have those kind of like little conversations every once
Speaker 5: in a while.
Speaker 4: For sure, it's Mollie in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a few people had some questions that I'm sure
Speaker 2: you get a lot. They're probably afraid to ask, but
Speaker 2: Molly and Sadie want to know, eyeballs, do you have
Speaker 2: to close them? Do you have to sew like in lips?
Speaker 2: Karen wanted to show this. Do you have to close
Speaker 2: the lips or the eye out?
Speaker 4: Does that work?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Okay, so that's super technical and a lot of people
Speaker 5: are weirded out by that kind of stuff. But so
Speaker 5: sometimes I'll get a body in and their eyes are
Speaker 5: already closed and their mouth is closed, and so I don't.
Speaker 4: Really have to do anything.
Speaker 5: Ninety percent of the time, we do have to close
Speaker 5: the people's eyes, and we do have to.
Speaker 4: Close their mouth.
Speaker 5: And so there is a surgical procedure that we do,
Speaker 5: and it's it's a suturing procedure, and you have to
Speaker 5: think of it like you're going to the dentist. So
Speaker 5: people get so weird a out about it. But I'm like, you, guys,
Speaker 5: this is plastic surgery on the debt.
Speaker 4: That's all it is.
Speaker 5: Okay, So basically it's a it's a surgical procedure where
Speaker 5: we go in and we suture through the nose the
Speaker 5: septum and down into the mouth and close the mouth
Speaker 5: that way. So you know, obviously we're not using any
Speaker 5: like painkillers or anything because the person is dead. But yeah,
Speaker 5: so I try to like demystify that fear for people
Speaker 5: or so that they don't have fear and demystify that
Speaker 5: process by explaining it that way where it's a surgical
Speaker 5: procedure much like plastic surgery.
Speaker 4: The same with the eyes. So sometimes we.
Speaker 5: Will use a little tiny bit of adhesive just to
Speaker 5: keep the inner canthus and the outer capthas like closed.
Speaker 2: A canthus side note is a corner of the eye.
Speaker 2: And also I just read that some deserologists might use
Speaker 2: eye caps under your lids. They look like large plastic
Speaker 2: contact lenses, but they have spikes on one side to
Speaker 2: keep the decedent's eyes closed like they're in deep sleep.
Speaker 2: And now the facial features are set before embalming in
Speaker 2: kind of a RESTful, pleasant expression. Although it has kind
Speaker 2: of left me wondering if anyone's ever been asked to
Speaker 2: be presented if they're just like mid afternoon nap with
Speaker 2: a rumpled shirt and a remote control in one hand,
Speaker 2: maybe a pool of drool on a couch cushion under
Speaker 2: their head. Anyway, sometimes they do dab a little glue
Speaker 2: to keep you from looking alert. It's not what you want.
Speaker 4: Not always though.
Speaker 5: If the embombing process goes very well, you don't have
Speaker 5: to use any kind of adhesive at all.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so that tissue will firm in that position,
Speaker 4: which is what we're really after.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I didn't know that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do people do they die with an expression on their face?
Speaker 4: Sometimes? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I'll get somebody and that has a little smirk
Speaker 5: or something like that.
Speaker 4: And usually by the time the.
Speaker 5: Person has gotten to me at the mortuary, any kind
Speaker 5: of rigor mortis has gone away, and so they're in
Speaker 5: a natural position.
Speaker 2: And not that this was something I thought I would
Speaker 2: ever learn, but there are stages that the body goes
Speaker 2: through after your spirit flies off into heaven filled with
Speaker 2: frogs and friendly possums and your grandpa and all you
Speaker 2: can eat lactose free gelato and hammocks. So the first
Speaker 2: stage after you die is pallor mortis, where circulation stops
Speaker 2: and skin looks lighter and pallid. Then there's alger mortis,
Speaker 2: where the body comes to ambient room temperature just cools
Speaker 2: off like leftovers. And then rigor mortis, in which the
Speaker 2: muscles different from a lack of ATP to relax them.
Speaker 2: And this rigor mortis stage starts about twelve hours after
Speaker 2: death at last a few days and then the muscles
Speaker 2: begin to decompose and the body relaxes again. And then
Speaker 2: there's liver mortis, that purplish staining, which can start as
Speaker 2: soon as twenty minutes after death. I also found it
Speaker 2: very sweet to learn that during embalming, the deserologist or
Speaker 2: embalmer won't massage the body just to keep things flowing.
Speaker 2: And it's sort of like a final pampering spa day,
Speaker 2: but you know, like one of the naked spas. But yes,
Speaker 2: Monica says that by the time she works on them,
Speaker 2: the limbs and the muscles are pretty flippity floppity chill.
Speaker 2: Those are not her words, but.
Speaker 5: Yeah, people die with their mouth open a lot. I mean,
Speaker 5: you relax, every muscle relaxes, so you know, we do
Speaker 5: kind of like when you're sleeping, you know, sometimes you
Speaker 5: sleep with your mouth open.
Speaker 4: It's kind of the same thing.
Speaker 2: Catch and flies. We've all done it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no horrified looks, though I don't really have recollection
Speaker 5: of any like horrified expressions.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was worried about that.
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, no, that's not something that I've seen.
Speaker 2: And then Wendy Miles and Lulu Hall both wanted to
Speaker 2: know if there is a smell or if that is
Speaker 2: even an issue. I guess Also, you're wearing a mask,
Speaker 2: so that is that a thing.
Speaker 4: The smells are yes, so that is one thing for sure.
Speaker 4: That is.
Speaker 5: It's definitely like decomposition has a smell, and dead human
Speaker 5: bodies have a smell, much like when you walk into
Speaker 5: the hospital. So those smells from the hospital they do
Speaker 5: carry over into the mortuary. So there is you know,
Speaker 5: the bodily fluids that are produced. Yeah, all of that
Speaker 5: very clinical hospital smells, and then that's paired with the
Speaker 5: smells of decomposition.
Speaker 4: I try to.
Speaker 5: Explain it to people like if you've ever had a
Speaker 5: steak in your refrigerator and gone away for the weekend
Speaker 5: and you come back and you open the refrigerator up,
Speaker 5: and you're like, ooh, that's definitely like there's something bad
Speaker 5: in there smell. So that smell is kind of like
Speaker 5: what it's like, but on a grand scale, right, Yeah,
Speaker 5: so I think it's important also to point out that
Speaker 5: the embombing process retards that smell. So you know, that's
Speaker 5: why it's like, Okay, let's get these people a bomb
Speaker 5: so that we don't have those smells.
Speaker 4: There's no offensive odor for the family.
Speaker 5: And to be honest, working, you know, as a professional,
Speaker 5: like I don't want to smell those smells either.
Speaker 4: They can get a little stinky.
Speaker 2: Oh, Bubury had a great question. Is makeup done differently
Speaker 2: on deceased people of color? Products for darker complexions weren't
Speaker 2: widely available before the seventies.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, so it's totally different. And also it's important
Speaker 5: to remember that another fascinating and amazing thing about embombing
Speaker 5: is that we can cosmetize a deceased person from the
Speaker 5: inside out.
Speaker 4: What it's so.
Speaker 5: Cool, It is super cool, especially if you can really
Speaker 5: as an en bomber, if you can master that technique,
Speaker 5: it's really neat.
Speaker 4: So what we do is we add a die additive
Speaker 4: to the.
Speaker 5: Bombing fluid, and whether that person is Caucasian or black,
Speaker 5: we have different types and colors of dye that we
Speaker 5: can use, and when it's done right, it is really beautiful,
Speaker 5: like the person's skin tone is just it's it comes.
Speaker 4: Out really nice. You can do that.
Speaker 5: But then also the cosmetics that we use. If it's
Speaker 5: topically that we're talking about, Lola seven, like I said,
Speaker 5: it's a very modern type brand of mortuary makeup is
Speaker 5: actually created by a black lady who she's a black
Speaker 5: funeral director, and so that was something I think that
Speaker 5: she brought to the game that was really valuable to
Speaker 5: me is that she brought different palettes of different complexion types.
Speaker 2: Cool. Oh and if you want to look up Lola seven,
Speaker 2: the seven is spelled se numeral seven een and they're
Speaker 2: on Instagram at Lola seven Cosmetics. I started poking around
Speaker 2: their cosmetics site and for a second, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: that's a great coral lip palette, and then I remembered
Speaker 2: it will hopefully be a very long time before I
Speaker 2: get to wear it.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I have all over palettes, and I have
Speaker 5: so any kind of complexion, whether they're black or Asian
Speaker 5: or Hispanic or Caucasian.
Speaker 4: I have all of those different types of foundation.
Speaker 2: Colors, Oh that's great.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I.
Speaker 5: Do I do have to say I do try to
Speaker 5: cosmetize through internally first, because less is more when it
Speaker 5: comes to mortuy makeup in my opinion, And.
Speaker 2: I guess that's also just a good lesson. Like, you know,
Speaker 2: if you want your skin to look great while you're alive,
Speaker 2: drink a lot of smoothies. Yeah, a lot of bit
Speaker 2: your vitamins hydrate exactly, and the best that I feel
Speaker 2: like the best skin cream is just drinking water.
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right. I have to agree with you.
Speaker 2: I'm that A few people wanted to know if you've
Speaker 2: had any really strange requests. Cassie Flint and Ariel Jade
Speaker 2: asked if you've just had like a really strange request
Speaker 2: that either cut you off guard or was a challenge.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I think the most interesting strange request was I
Speaker 5: had a young lady who passed to and she was
Speaker 5: an exotic dancer obviously like a young girl, very beautiful,
Speaker 5: and she didn't really have a family, so her work
Speaker 5: family was like the people that were taking care of
Speaker 5: her arrangements, and they wanted to have her prepared in
Speaker 5: her costume like her oh.
Speaker 4: Her dancing costumes. So and I'm fine with that. I mean,
Speaker 4: I will honor anyone's wishes within reason, right, But the.
Speaker 5: Issue that I had was that, you know, it's so
Speaker 5: much of her skin that was showing that that's a
Speaker 5: lot of makeup and a lot it was a challenge
Speaker 5: because of the decomposition process and the way that the body,
Speaker 5: you know, breaks down. A lot of that we can
Speaker 5: camouflage underclothing as morticians. So you know, I was like,
Speaker 5: you guys, I don't know if that's really like, I
Speaker 5: don't know if that's the best idea, Like that's really
Speaker 5: that's a lot of skin, you know, that's going to
Speaker 5: be showing. And her body wasn't in the best condition
Speaker 5: as it was as far as the place that she
Speaker 5: was in the process.
Speaker 4: Of decomposition, she wasn't in a great place. However, I
Speaker 4: wanted to do that for them.
Speaker 5: I just didn't think it would be the best like
Speaker 5: last memory for them. And so once I explained it
Speaker 5: to them and like this is going to show and
Speaker 5: this is.
Speaker 4: They were like, oh yeah, like yeah, we don't want that, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 5: So I think just having that open conversation with them
Speaker 5: of like, this is what's what you're gonna see.
Speaker 4: Is it makes people's.
Speaker 5: Minds up for them when they have that conversation and
Speaker 5: they're like, oh, I didn't think about that.
Speaker 2: Oh y'all. Friends do become family. And this story just
Speaker 2: socked me right in the guts. So I hope her
Speaker 2: molecules have fed mushrooms and flowers and worms that feed
Speaker 2: birds that sing in the sunshine. She deserves it. I
Speaker 2: want to cry. How did it turn out? What did
Speaker 2: she end up wearing? Does she end up wearing a dress?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, we put her in a really pretty, like shimmery dress.
Speaker 5: It was one of her one of her costumes that
Speaker 5: she had. It just had more coverage m hm. So yeah,
Speaker 5: she ended up looking really pretty on her special day.
Speaker 4: But I did have a magician one time. Really that
Speaker 4: was kind of cool. Yeah, And it was a funeral of.
Speaker 5: All magicians, so that was that was kind of cool.
Speaker 5: And they did a really nice send off for him.
Speaker 4: They had like his little hat and his little bunny
Speaker 4: and everything with him.
Speaker 2: Wait, hold the phone. Did they bury the magician with
Speaker 2: his bunny?
Speaker 4: The bunny was alive? Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2: But not buried with him alive?
Speaker 4: No no, no, no, no no. But he was there for
Speaker 4: the service. Oh, yeah, he was. He was with him
Speaker 4: and he was there for the service. Yeah, solute emotional support.
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh my gosh, did you have to hide a
Speaker 2: bunch of scarves and his sleeves and all that stuff?
Speaker 2: Ah amazing. Yeah, you got to know some like real
Speaker 2: magic tricks, I'm sure.
Speaker 5: Oh, it was one of the most memorable funerals that
Speaker 5: I've had, and all the magicians that were there, and like,
Speaker 5: yeah it was. It was definitely one for the books
Speaker 5: for sure.
Speaker 2: A party Corn and Jen Borlick and me handlebars want
Speaker 2: to know if you've ever had anything spooky or done
Speaker 2: right weird happen and any unexpected surprises, or if you've
Speaker 2: ever kind of freaked yourself out.
Speaker 4: Spooky or unexpected surprises.
Speaker 5: Unexpected surprises would be like last day of service. I
Speaker 5: work my buns off all week trying to get you know,
Speaker 5: this body prepared in the funeral running and everything perfect,
Speaker 5: and then like the day of the service, the family
Speaker 5: has like no money to pay.
Speaker 4: So I would say that's probably the one that I'm like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, I don't.
Speaker 5: Know what, but I would say, like I know what
Speaker 5: people are after, and like spooky, I don't really have
Speaker 5: any of those stories.
Speaker 4: I just it's not like that.
Speaker 5: I think people get so caught up and like the
Speaker 5: movies and what they say on TV that they don't
Speaker 5: realize it's it's really like a hospital setting. Mm hmm.
Speaker 5: You know, it's like a hospital setting, and so it's
Speaker 5: very clinical and we have our cooler. Yes there's you know,
Speaker 5: bodies in our cooler. But I'm so busy that I
Speaker 5: don't have really.
Speaker 4: Time to think about like spooky stuff.
Speaker 5: I think people think that we have one body and
Speaker 5: that's it, when we in reality, we probably have like
Speaker 5: we're processing between five and twenty bodies at a time, and.
Speaker 2: Are you going from one to the other, like depending
Speaker 2: on stages and stuff.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely absolutely. So Yeah, I know I wish I
Speaker 5: had some spooky stories. I wish I had, like I
Speaker 5: wish I had like oh yeah this one time, like
Speaker 5: this guy like sat up and he started talking to me, or.
Speaker 2: It's just not it's just that's good. I think that
Speaker 2: helps people. Yeah, So I guess don't be afraid of
Speaker 2: funeral homes are dead people, dead people who are literally
Speaker 2: chillen in fridges right now. We're probably afraid of dead people.
Speaker 2: While they were alive, and they're just someone's cousin or
Speaker 2: girlfriend or mom or coworker or maleman, and they all
Speaker 2: had birthdays and got excited about donuts in the break
Speaker 2: room and had favorite songs and a smell that reminded
Speaker 2: them of a first love. So Monica is there to
Speaker 2: make sure that they look amazing at the last they'll
Speaker 2: ever host kind of a bon voyage to the great beyond.
Speaker 2: But it can't all be smooth sailing for her. And
Speaker 2: the last questions, I always ask, what is one thing
Speaker 2: about your job that is the hardest, or something that's
Speaker 2: annoying or petty, what's one thing that you hate?
Speaker 5: So my one thing I would say that's really it's
Speaker 5: hard for me is that the misconceptions about embalming, what
Speaker 5: it is and why we do it and why you know,
Speaker 5: there's a lot of I want to really truly drive
Speaker 5: this home to your listeners, is that there's a lot
Speaker 5: of propaganda on the internet right now about like embalming
Speaker 5: is bad for the environment, and it's bad for this,
Speaker 5: and it's bad for that, and it's not the people
Speaker 5: Stop listening to embombing advice from people who don't You're
Speaker 5: not going to listen to you like take advice from
Speaker 5: a hairstylist and when you're trying to get a root
Speaker 5: canal done. Yeah, So a lot of that is just
Speaker 5: it gets under my skin. Is that there's a lot
Speaker 5: of misconceptions about the embombing process.
Speaker 2: Itself gets under her skin. That's dead worthy, right there, Brava.
Speaker 5: So just be careful with what you are listening to
Speaker 5: you on YouTube and podcasts and people that are a
Speaker 5: lot of like the natural burial advocates and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: which I love natural burial.
Speaker 4: No, no offense to natural burial. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 5: I think it's beautiful, amazing way to say goodbye. Absolutely,
Speaker 5: just be careful about what you're listening to.
Speaker 2: Of course, just dad word jumping into say that opinions
Speaker 2: really differ on this topic. As you can imagine, plenty
Speaker 2: of websites say that embalming fluid is a disgrace to
Speaker 2: our poo filled sewage systems. But I did find a
Speaker 2: twenty eleven paper from the University of Johannesburg titled the
Speaker 2: Effect of Formaldehyde Use in Sanitation, which stated formaldehyde does
Speaker 2: not raise any serious human health or environmental concerns provided
Speaker 2: it is properly handled and stored. When released into the air,
Speaker 2: the paper said, it is rapidly broken down by photolysis light,
Speaker 2: and when released into water it's biodegraded within a few days.
Speaker 2: So this paper went on then to discuss portapotties. Essentially,
Speaker 2: the formaldehyde breaks down into carbon dioxide and water through
Speaker 2: the natural action of oxygen in sunlight and bacteria and heat.
Speaker 2: So good for pooh, good for you. That is not
Speaker 2: the slogan of the Formaldehyde Commission, nor should it be.
Speaker 2: But if you're gonna get truly pissed about formaldehyde and
Speaker 2: industry essentially, maybe get bent about resins and particle board first,
Speaker 2: and then embalming a distant second. But if you're like
Speaker 2: I want a natural burial, I want to return to
Speaker 2: the earth asap I get it, I feel you completely.
Speaker 2: As for natural burials, you can get encased in the
Speaker 2: fetal position into a big fibrous egg that will feed
Speaker 2: your loamy nutrients into a tree. Or you can return
Speaker 2: to our mother by donning a mushroom suit that breaks
Speaker 2: you down to grow strains of fungus. Perhaps a body
Speaker 2: farm donation is for you. Or you can get tossed
Speaker 2: into about of concrete and thrown in the ocean to
Speaker 2: help a coral reef develop. It's your bod do what
Speaker 2: makes you happy. Just maybe let someone know what those
Speaker 2: wishes are. You can do it in a fun way.
Speaker 2: You can write a poem or singing telegram, tweet it.
Speaker 3: You're asking me what I want? Yeah, it's your funeral.
Speaker 2: What about the thing that you just love the most
Speaker 2: about your career, your job?
Speaker 5: The thing that I love most about my career and
Speaker 5: my job is that, hands down, I get to help
Speaker 5: people that are living in their darkest days. So I
Speaker 5: get to connect with people on a level that other
Speaker 5: people will never even their closest friends.
Speaker 4: And family do not get to connect with them.
Speaker 5: So I really love the fact that years after I'll
Speaker 5: have families that will reach out to me and they
Speaker 5: remember every detail of the time that we spent together. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, planning the service and the things that I
Speaker 5: did for their loved one.
Speaker 4: I just truly love connecting with people like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to really be a people person to
Speaker 2: work with the dead, Huh.
Speaker 4: I think so.
Speaker 5: I think you have to have that definite like you
Speaker 5: have to have compassion, and you have to like be
Speaker 5: able to be strong and like that the family's counting
Speaker 5: on you to like get them through that really horrible
Speaker 5: time in their life.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I do. I really that's my favorite part
Speaker 4: of it.
Speaker 2: That's a beautiful thing. Yeah, that's really great. And you're
Speaker 2: you're so respected in your field, you're just like the
Speaker 2: person to ask about it. So I was so excited to.
Speaker 4: Talk to you.
Speaker 5: I love that.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so glad to get some of your time.
Speaker 2: I know. Unfortunately it's busy season for you.
Speaker 4: Yes, it is so, because it is.
Speaker 5: It is a busy, fast moving kind of pace here
Speaker 5: and we're going into our busy season as far as
Speaker 5: deaths is concerned. I have for your listeners or anybody else,
Speaker 5: I have a link set up on my website for
Speaker 5: the general public, and I do teach classes as well
Speaker 5: for the general public. So all these questions your listeners
Speaker 5: are asking, they might want to take a class that
Speaker 5: I offer and they can engage with me and other
Speaker 5: people that are interested in the macob and learning about
Speaker 5: death and a comfortable environment.
Speaker 2: Awesome. Oh. This was asked by patrons and mortuary students
Speaker 2: Kayla Simpson and Kyra Die Hello, wonderful death workers. Thank
Speaker 2: you for taking care of the people that we love. Oh,
Speaker 2: a few people who are in mortuary school. Ast. If
Speaker 2: you have one piece of advice for someone going down
Speaker 2: this path, if you could give to yourself in the
Speaker 2: past or someone else starting out, any one last piece
Speaker 2: of advice.
Speaker 5: Somebody that's going into the industry is to really thicken
Speaker 5: your skin right up. Yeah, tick in your skin up.
Speaker 5: And you know, don't let anybody tell you that you
Speaker 5: can't achieve your dreams like you, go after it. Whatever
Speaker 5: your your dreams are, don't let anybody squish.
Speaker 2: Them, don't let anyone squish them.
Speaker 5: Don't let anyone shirts, don't let anyone squish them like yeah,
Speaker 5: don't let anybody get in your way.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so so much. Keep up the amazing
Speaker 2: work for those families, and make sure to get some
Speaker 2: rest in between if you can.
Speaker 5: It's been fin Ali, Thanks for having me, thanks for
Speaker 5: reaching out, and.
Speaker 4: I guess until next time, happy embalming.
Speaker 2: So ask smart people stupid questions, and whether you want
Speaker 2: to dance or wear glitter or embalm people or write
Speaker 2: a novel, follow your dreams. Don't let anyone question them.
Speaker 2: To learn more about Monica and her classes services, even
Speaker 2: embalming uniforms. You can check out her website at next
Speaker 2: Gen Mortuary. Support link is in the show notes. You
Speaker 2: can follow her on Instagram and on Twitter at Cold
Speaker 2: Hands Hosts. All those links are in the show notes,
Speaker 2: alongside one to donate to High Precious should you desire.
Speaker 2: We are at Ologies on Twitter, in Instagram, I'm Ali Ward.
Speaker 2: Just one l on both do say hello. If you'd
Speaker 2: like Ologies masks or beanies or T shirts or hoodies,
Speaker 2: hit upologiesmerch dot com. Thank you to Merch Mavens, Shannon
Speaker 2: Feltis and Bonnie Dutch. They also host a comedy podcast
Speaker 2: called You Are That that has amazing guests, so check
Speaker 2: them out. If you'd like to submit questions for future episodes,
Speaker 2: you can join Patreon for as little as twenty five
Speaker 2: cents an episode, and that is patreon dot com slash Ologies.
Speaker 2: Thank you to Aaron Talbert, who admins the Ologies podcast
Speaker 2: Facebook group. Thank you to professional transcriptionist Emily White who
Speaker 2: leads the effort with all the volunteer transcribers. Transcripts are
Speaker 2: free and available to everyone at aliward dot com. Slash
Speaker 2: Ologies extras alongside bleeped episodes for kiddos, those are bleeped
Speaker 2: by Caleb Patten. Noel Dilworth helps me schedule interviews because
Speaker 2: I'm just frankly very bad at that. Jarrett Sleeper is
Speaker 2: the assistant editor who also went to the store and
Speaker 2: got me ice cream sandwiches the other day, and thus
Speaker 2: Shelby canonized into Sainhood huge thanks, of course, to the
Speaker 2: thread that sutures all these pieces together, Stephen Ray Morris.
Speaker 2: He also hosts the Percast and c Jurassic Right to
Speaker 2: Great podcasts about kiddies and Dino's. Nick Thorburn of the
Speaker 2: band Islands wrote and performed the theme song and if
Speaker 2: you listen to the end, I divulge something. Oh In
Speaker 2: this week, I got a new watch that tracks your
Speaker 2: heart rate. And y'all know I have anxiety, but I
Speaker 2: try to control it with diet and medication. But out
Speaker 2: of the blue last week I started to have an
Speaker 2: anxiety attack and I was like, one of these, I'm
Speaker 2: used to them. Later, I looked at my watch and
Speaker 2: my heart rate went from resting at maybe fifty five
Speaker 2: beats a minute to one sixty. It just jumped from
Speaker 2: one minute to the next doing nothing. How weird is that?
Speaker 2: But it's actually really nice and affirming to know that
Speaker 2: anxiety isn't just me being a weenie who worries about things,
Speaker 2: that it's like a chemical, somatic thing. And so to
Speaker 2: take care of our minds, we got to take care
Speaker 2: of our bods also while they still have blood pumping
Speaker 2: through them. So I've been trying to chill out a
Speaker 2: little bit more. Life is short, let's breathe, relax, just
Speaker 2: live it minute to minute. The people you love also
Speaker 2: leave a will in some instructions on what kind of
Speaker 2: funeral you want. Also, one more thing. For some reason,
Speaker 2: the album that I work the most too is Misanthroposcene
Speaker 2: by Grimes. I don't know why anyway. Right as I
Speaker 2: was finishing some research on embalming, Spotify shuffled in a
Speaker 2: Grime song called Flesh without Blood Ooo. Spooky some real
Speaker 2: ghost to the machine right there anyway. That concludes twenty
Speaker 2: twenty Spootoverer. Also, I might just reair Pumpkins as a
Speaker 2: palate cleanser as well this week. So if I do,
Speaker 2: go listen to Pumpkins too, get a pumpkin, live your
Speaker 2: life you deserve. Head provide pacidermatology, hobology or doo zoology lithology, technology, meteorology,
Speaker 2: old patology, ethology, seriology, elinology.
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