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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos. I am Dan Favalley, joined

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once again by the hashtag returning certified fantabulous mister Grant.

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Hugh's back from vacation where I believe that he leapt

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over the mouth of a volcano in Hawaii is what

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I was. Multiple sources have told me. So we're excited

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that he survived and were able to come back and podcast.

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You all know, I've mentioned it like two or three times.

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Brian to Pork has been great. All our guests are

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always great. I have missed Grant terribly and I think

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I actually only recorded two episodes without him, and so

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I missed him anyway, Grant, how the heck are you doing? Man?

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Speaker 2: Just happy to be here, happy to see your smiling face,

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happy to see that we wore matching color new Sicico

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Mode shirts today, different designs. It's like we planned it,

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but we didn't. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. I'm

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happy to speak with you, and I'm happy to repurpose

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a topic that we've already prepared for a podcast because

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it's a light lift, but it's a fun topic and

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I'm looking forward to that too.

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Speaker 1: And it's sort of and by the way good plug.

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Go buy our merch. If you want to support the show,

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go buy our merch. The storelink is in the podcast

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and YouTube description. Grant has on the Proud Cicco with

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a six base design on the back. I have the

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Siico Mode shirt. I'm gonna have to order more. I

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keep wearing the same like one or two things, and

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people are gonna think they're a good dupe laundry. I'm

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waiting for those in the comments, so yes, support the show,

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Go buy our merch. We're gonna be talking about and

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this sort of will hold us over until Grant and

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I get to our over unders we're gonna put out.

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It will be a two part thing of will every

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team in the NBA be better or worse relative to

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just how many games they won last year? So we're

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not getting into over unders or even win predictions. We're

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looking at last year's number. And we know p gris

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isn't linear, but for the purposes of this podcast, Grant

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program progress must be binary. You're either you're either better

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or you're worse, and so we will as I think

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is our Do you have any idea why this is that?

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We just whenever we break up these Conference podcasts that

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we always just do the Western Conference first.

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Speaker 2: Uh, West coast bias, I guess for me, I don't know,

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am I am? I like incepting you to ask you though,

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I just like that's the one that I have pulled

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up first, and.

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Speaker 1: I live on the East coast.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was. We didn't discuss how what order we

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were going to do these in, but I think as

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I recall, I have all the West teams right and

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you have all the East teams that did the writeups

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for is that how it went right? Okay? Yeah, no,

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I don't know. I definitely like I think it is

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just by virtue of like you know, growing up in California,

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I saw Western Conference teams more than the East. Just

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feels like a slight remove for me, like even the

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big time East teams are just like, well that's an

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I don't know what it is. It's kind of like, uh,

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it works that way for me. Or baseball too, just

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because I grew up a Giants fan, and National League

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teams are just like I know, those teams and the

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American League, which is stupid because like it's geographically split,

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it makes less sense than East and West and basketball.

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But I don't know. That's so, do you have the

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same feeling about Eastern Conference teams since you grew up

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on the other side of the country.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, I don't know. If it's just because the

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hours I've kept, because of what we do, and like

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maybe because by the time I'm wrapping up a lot

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of the work I'm doing, like the West Coast games

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are starting, and those are the ones that I predominantly

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don't have to go back and rewatch or watch film

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on because my attention is more locked in. And it's

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also just the West has been for decades better, right,

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nothing some than the East. Also, I posit that you

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have there's like you are a Californian at heart, you

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just don't know it.

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Speaker 2: I think. I think maybe that's what it.

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Speaker 1: Is I have. I look, San Diego is one of

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my favorite places in the world, and so if I

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could convince my wife to move out there, and it

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also wasn't crazy, although Long Island's not exactly cheap either.

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In San Diego, that might be.

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Speaker 2: The farthest place in the lower forty eight States that

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you could move from where you currently live. Like in

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terms of like it's pretty there's not a lot of

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more distances.

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Speaker 1: Where I currently live isn't special aside from it being

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wildly expensive. And I still to this day, after all

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these years living here basically my entire life, have no

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idea what the draw is and why it's like the

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Hampton's and like an hour and a half train ride

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from the city, and so it's just costs a shit

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ton to live here I have. I have no idea,

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but I don't understand. Look, I'm sure there are very

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nice people that live here, including myself my wife, But

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Long Island, New York. Is anyone listening from Long Island,

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New York you know if you're offended by this. I

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don't like the news to me, like it's a running joke,

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like about like much of a specifically Stuffolk County too.

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It's just like they make fun of Roan kan kama

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Is sort of the train line, and that's where I

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actually grew up. So I don't I don't know why

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it's so expensive here. It just is.

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Speaker 2: There's some you guys have some wild to ask names

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for places in cities out there, why, well, like Raconcoma

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is I don't.

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Speaker 1: Know, maybe I okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going to try again. I'm like, I

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just I don't know where do all those come from?

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This is this is now a like etymology podcast. I'm

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asking you where the words come from that describe your towns.

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Speaker 1: I think it's cute that you think I care enough

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to know the benefits of these of these names. I

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do think that they are rooted in some sort of

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Native American heritage, but I wouldn't know that for sure.

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There is a movie coming out though about Lake Ronkonkoma,

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because there's a legend about star cross lovers basically, and

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their families didn't want them. It's like a Romeo and

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Juliet type thing, and they either took their own life

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or the the woman only took hers and so and

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she drowned in the lake. And so the legend has

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been that there's no bottom to the lake and that

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she claims one drowning every year. And there's been like

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one hundred and sixty reported and confirmed drownings in Lake

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Ronkonkoma since the eighteen hundre. So you've got like a

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movie coming out about it.

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Speaker 2: Is it like the same day, Like someone drowns on

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the same day every year because just don't go to

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the lake that day. It seems like a pretty easy fit.

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Speaker 1: Just don't. First of all, the lake is disgusting. Just

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don't swim in the lake at all. Yeah, there's there's

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a cans and sludge in there, Like I don't. It's

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even just like, oh, you're so close to the Hampton's

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here and it's like the water is brown? People, What

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do we do it? Anyway?

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Speaker 2: From this?

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Speaker 1: I have no idea, but oh, Western Conference stuff, which

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I feel like it's a good time to, uh, let's

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throw up the So we'll do the West teams and

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just as a reminder, we're trying to decide whether they'll

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be better or worse relative to how many wins they

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had last seasons. Okay, here we go. For those watching,

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it's on the screen so you could look at I

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was wondering, grant, since they're on the screen and easy

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for us to keep track of, do we want to

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draft and pick which teams we go to? Just completely

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out of order?

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Speaker 2: Oh I don't know. I was thinking too, we could

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like go in order of like how confident we are,

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but I don't have official rankings for that, so yeah,

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I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say I say we pick random what's the

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team you want to talk and we'll just go that way.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're gonna forget this way. This is this is

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a rest.

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Speaker 1: You'll be able to see what I'm gonna put something

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up that is better or worse, and you'll be able

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to see which teams we haven't done.

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Speaker 2: All right, fine, let's do Uh. I really want to

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start with Dallas because I like to keep things in order.

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You're gonna push me here, Okay, I want to start.

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Let's start here because this is the team that I

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have the most difficulty deciding. I flip flopped but twice

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now since I wrote this up for br and that's

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the Phoenix Suns. So let's let's do Phoenix here. Initially,

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so they won forty nine games a year ago. Initially

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I was really convinced that they were going to be

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worse than that, the logic just being I don't think

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Kevin Durant has another seventy five all NBA level games

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in him, which the Suns got from him last year.

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Just all the basic Sun stuff. They're top heavy, they're inflexible.

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Bradley Beal is a pretty big disappointment. All the second

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Apron stuff. They just their options are limited, all of

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their best players have health questions. Is Usef Nurkic gonna

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be as good somehow as he seemed to be on

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defense last year and allow them to finish twelfth in

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defensive efficiency? So I had them worse, and then Tyas

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Jones happens, and then I remember that they have Monte

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Morris and Mason Plumbley, so the rotation looks a little better,

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and certainly the point guard spot looks better. And then

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I was like, okay, maybe better because forty nine is

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not that many, so I could be persuaded to go

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either way. I would like your deciding vote if you

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have a strong feeling. If not, I think I know

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where I'm leaning. But what is your sense of the

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Suns before I definitively say better or worse?

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Speaker 1: So wait, you're saying whatever I say, you're just gonna adopt.

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Speaker 2: I just I would.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: I'm not no, I'm not promising that.

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Speaker 1: I would, just like making sure. I wanted to know

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how much power I had.

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Speaker 2: You have a decent amount of power here, So I

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think they're going to be better.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the fact that they won forty nine games, given

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all that happened last year, and I know that the

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Big three they did play together, but the stop and

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start availability of Bradley Beal to begin the year certainly

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didn't help things. The fact that they were so good

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on defense without getting super lucky on opponent shooting is

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just They could be better on that end with a

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full year of Royce O'Neil. And you're also you brought

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back Josh Akogi. Now, however you are, I've called it.

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Then they've exacerbated their amount of non wings by bringing

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in Tias Jones. But one of our biggest gripes with

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them was the turnovers. Even with Devin Booker running point guard,

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they were just minutes where it wasn't clicking. Now, maybe

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just extra time improves that we bring in Tias Jones,

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who is, by the way, one of only just two

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players to have three seasons with an assist or eight

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above twenty five and a turnover rate below nine. The

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other player, by the way, Grant, is Michael Jordan. Pretty

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good company to keep. You're gonna have some more offensive

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organization and I think that's big deal in part because

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of the concern that you just outlaid with Kevin Durant.

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This will make it easier if he has to miss time,

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but it also makes it or when he's on the bench,

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of course, but it also makes it easier on Kevin

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Durant because Tyus Jones is so good at getting into

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the lane. He's pretty quick at getting off the ball,

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and we saw KD specifically struggle with how defenses were

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going after him and he's just not built that way

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to beat double teams the way he was a half

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decade ago or so, and so to bring in another ballhandler,

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game manager, I think that ends up making them better.

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And I think you could also just point to it right,

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KD might play less, Bradley Beal probably plays more, and

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he to his credit, I think people have like made

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Bradley Beal his no trade clause where it's like this

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dude sucks because he has a no trade clause. It's no.

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The no trade clause is very restrictive for his team,

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and it's put the Suns in a tough spot. But

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he's still a good player and I thought he did

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a good job of trying to adapt last year. My

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main concern with them is I know they were just

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twelfth and def but they're starting tias, which means that

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Beal or Devin Booker is just their primary wing checker

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to begin games. And I'm very curious to see how

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they're gonna close, because if you're tius, do you go

241
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to Phoenix on the minimum? If you're like, oh, you'll start,

242
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but we might just Yankee two minutes in and you're

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not gonna close games.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go better. I think it's I think I

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think you've sold me. The other thing is they had

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to win the point differential of a team that should

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have won like fifty just on cleaning the last fifty

248
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point six, So there's a little wiggle room if you

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were to assume they like actually aren't any better. I

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think there's just the depth as part of it. I

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guess this is an argument that the improved depth the

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presence of more than one point guard offsets like the

253
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there's like a some there you gotta concede, though there's

254
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real like the bottom falls out risk with this team

255
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if like one or two of their relatively injury prone

256
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best players are down at the same time. But I guess, yeah,

257
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so so high variants for sure, but forty nine is

258
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just not that high, So I guess we'll go better.

259
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Speaker 1: For them, is there, like they also do have and

260
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this will they can still trade their twenty thirty one

261
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first round pick, is what I'm getting at. And they

262
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have salaries in Joshua Kogi, even Royce, O'Neill, Grayson Allen,

263
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if they're willing to move him, they could do, like

264
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if that's if the twenty thirty one pick is on

265
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the table, Like I'm using this as an example, do

266
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you know who'd be perfect for this team? Tarry Easton?

267
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And so, if you're Houston and you've already started getting

268
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in the business of Suns picks, why don't you get

269
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that twenty thirty one first round pick? Send out Tarry Easton,

270
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take back whatever you need to do. Would you do that?

271
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If you're Phoenix, like you, is Tyry Easton a good

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enough player to say I'm punting on my draft seven

273
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years from now?

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Speaker 2: If I'm Phoenix, I've probably already tried to trade that

275
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pick like that. I think they're just like if I'm.

276
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Speaker 1: Pretending, like, who is the worst type of player that

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you would I proposed this to somebody and they said, well,

278
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could Houston give up Cam Whitmore as well? And I

279
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was like, salary wise, Yeah, they could make it work.

280
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But Kem Whitmore and Tari Easton for just a twenty

281
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thirty one first round pick, I don't think. I don't

282
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think I'm doing it if I'm Houston.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in just like in a vacuum of

284
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I don't know, are we talking unprotected whatever? A first

285
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round pick of any type is kind of a lot

286
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for Tari Easton. I really like Tari Easton. I just

287
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wrote about him today because he had kind of a

288
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lost season, But defensively, that guy is just a game wrecker,

289
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and like he really is the type of guy you

290
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would want playing with, you know, scoring stars, which is

291
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what Phoenix had. Traffic's in. Yeah, I don't know. I

292
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don't know who the best players that pick could get,

293
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but like that's the fit at least would make a

294
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lot of sense if Easton could could be healthier than

295
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he was a year ago. All Right, so we're bullish

296
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on the Suns. I guess despite me having a lot

297
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of reservation.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna draft one now. Are you ready?

299
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Speaker 2: Oh?

300
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Speaker 1: Go ahead. We have not talked about this team that much.

301
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The Portland Trailblazers twenty one wins last year, Grant and

302
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so I guess this is the best way I'm going

303
00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:01,039
to draft teams to the intention throwing it to you

304
00:14:01,759 --> 00:14:05,120
twenty one wins? Are you calling them better or worse?

305
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,759
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna be worse, and that I have

306
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:11,639
it gives me a little bit of pause because twenty

307
00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:14,320
one wins is like that, that's that's not a lot

308
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of wins. We do see teams in the teams pretty

309
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,679
much every year, though, and some of it. A lot

310
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of it is just sort of the context of the

311
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,159
West for me, just because there's probably only going to

312
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,039
be at most two Western Conference teams that are not

313
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,919
interested in winning. The Blazers will be one of them.

314
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,080
I think Utah's the other. But with this marketing deal,

315
00:14:34,279 --> 00:14:36,480
I don't know, maybe not, or maybe it'll be harder.

316
00:14:38,639 --> 00:14:41,799
So it's the context, and it's the idea that like,

317
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,799
if the guys that they should want to play actually

318
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,279
play more, which is to say, like Scoot Shade and

319
00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:52,320
Sharp I guess Simons to Mani Kamara, just their younger guys,

320
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,639
they should probably be bad just because that's just what

321
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,120
happens when you give a ton of minutes to young players,

322
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and then they're also like if you're talking about, well,

323
00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:05,200
how might the roster change? They have veterans that they

324
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,320
can and should be trying to trade for future assets,

325
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So like those are kind of the the that's the

326
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,879
three pronged kind of process that gets me to worse.

327
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Even though twenty one wins is like, I mean, you

328
00:15:16,159 --> 00:15:18,519
could accidentally win twenty two games. It seems like in

329
00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:21,600
most years. I just think Portland is the arrow is

330
00:15:21,639 --> 00:15:23,879
aiming down for Portland, and I think they're okay with that.

331
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Speaker 1: I would agree with you. That's why I put it

332
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,480
up on the screen. We caught not you and I,

333
00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:30,320
but Espreheeny and I when we were talking about the

334
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,639
Blazers direction. We both expressed confusion over it, and we

335
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,559
caught a lot of shit. I'm still somewhat confused over it.

336
00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:41,200
I don't understand what Chauncey Billups is guiding principles a

337
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head coaches just yet how much of that is related

338
00:15:43,679 --> 00:15:45,639
to Okay, well, look at what when he took over

339
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,840
what they were trying to do versus last year when

340
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,759
they dealt with all these injuries. What I will say is,

341
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as currently constructed, this team should probably be better. And

342
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,159
I'm even I was not a donviic wing guy coming

343
00:15:57,159 --> 00:15:59,399
out of the draft. But he proved to be when

344
00:15:59,399 --> 00:16:01,600
you watched him, and when I watched him in Summer League.

345
00:16:01,679 --> 00:16:04,159
He did a lot of the I am huge and

346
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,840
I know it stuff on defense really well. We saw

347
00:16:06,919 --> 00:16:09,960
him take some threes and so they have a trillion bigs.

348
00:16:10,039 --> 00:16:11,720
But like, if they're just willing to play Donovan Clington,

349
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,519
there's a chance that their defense just gets better by that.

350
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,039
Dniavia makes their defense better. Jeremy Grant pretty good defenders. Still,

351
00:16:18,159 --> 00:16:21,799
they have Tomani Kamara. This is a team that Robert

352
00:16:21,799 --> 00:16:24,200
Williams the third if he's healthy. This is a team

353
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if they're not making massive moves. I feel like they

354
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,840
could be sneaky good on defense. Now, this is all

355
00:16:29,919 --> 00:16:32,039
to say, and I hope Blazers fans don't take this

356
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,240
as an insult. You mentioned it. They want to be bad.

357
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They are the only team right now in the Western

358
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,039
Conference that is very clearly not interested in winning next season,

359
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,399
and so whether it's trading players or whether it's shutting

360
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,279
them down, they are going to be bad. I don't

361
00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:49,919
know if I'm prepared to say like they might win

362
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,639
twenty games instead of twenty one. I think they'll end

363
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,279
up in the teams just because I firmly believe maybe

364
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,919
you could pencil Utah into this sort of umbrella too.

365
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,120
But these other their teams are either going to be

366
00:17:01,159 --> 00:17:03,879
trying to win or maybe talented enough to stumble into

367
00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:08,160
wins unless catastrophic injuries happen. The Blazers, yeah, on paper,

368
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,359
they're probably good enough to stumble into more wins than

369
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,160
they want. But I don't think they're gonna let them.

370
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,039
I'm not saying they're gonna shut down guys, but you're

371
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,480
gonna see some lineups get rolled out there where it's, oh,

372
00:17:16,519 --> 00:17:19,039
maybe Scoot isn't starting, but he's closing games for us,

373
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when there might just be a better veteran lineup to

374
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,359
run out there. So that's why I think they'll finish

375
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,559
with fewer than twenty one wins next season. That doesn't

376
00:17:27,559 --> 00:17:30,480
mean that they their future will probably be better off

377
00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:33,200
for it, though, But this team is you know, when

378
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,519
you look at them and I'll the Hornets, those are

379
00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:37,160
the teams that are on paper where its well, everyone's

380
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,440
just gonna assume that they suck, and it's like, if

381
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,759
they're just healthy and keep this together, they could probably

382
00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:44,440
win more games than you're expecting, but just relative to

383
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,240
the hell fire that is the Western Conference, I'm gonna

384
00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:48,759
go with fewer than twenty one wins.

385
00:17:48,839 --> 00:17:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that has to be right. I mean,

386
00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:54,319
you know, I'm not. I don't know. You look at

387
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,359
the roster and you it's hard to say, like, oh,

388
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,880
they definitely want to lose. What I do feel confident

389
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,759
in saying is they should want to lose. And it's

390
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:02,960
and it has more to do with just the con

391
00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:06,079
because like we're just going for it whatever that means.

392
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,480
Get them right, Like you're not finishing above more than

393
00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:13,519
like one team or two. Maybe if something goes totally

394
00:18:13,599 --> 00:18:16,359
sideways for one of the top thirteen teams in the West,

395
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:19,480
right if if Memphis has enough, if another team goes

396
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,039
even Memphis won what twenty seven last year, Like this

397
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,000
team can't. It can't. It's like the play in is

398
00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:29,079
like out of the question, and like even that is

399
00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:31,359
something I think we agree, like teams probably shouldn't be

400
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,880
gunning for the play in generally. So yeah, I they

401
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,480
they just they cannot if they are trying to do

402
00:18:38,519 --> 00:18:40,759
anything but just play all the young guys and let

403
00:18:40,799 --> 00:18:44,119
whatever happens happen. It feels like a pretty big mistake.

404
00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:46,680
Speaker 1: And I don't think that there. I mean, there's we

405
00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:49,119
mentioned the trillion centers, so there's weirdness there. But they

406
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,519
don't have anyone on this roster, maybe Jeremy Grant, because

407
00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:55,039
it pay grade that they can't just say, well, you're

408
00:18:55,039 --> 00:18:57,279
not guaranteed minutes, and there's no one with sort of

409
00:18:57,319 --> 00:18:59,880
that cachet to where if you don't play them, it's

410
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,759
I want to be a big deal. So I think

411
00:19:01,759 --> 00:19:03,640
that'll allow them to do if they don't want to.

412
00:19:03,839 --> 00:19:05,839
Maybe if the offers for Grant aren't out there or

413
00:19:05,839 --> 00:19:08,000
they're they're not good offers for RW three, and they're

414
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,880
certainly not gonna be good offers for eight, and I

415
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,759
would imagine they could just not play those guys as

416
00:19:12,799 --> 00:19:15,559
many minutes without really like any sweat off. Again, Grant

417
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,000
might be the one where you look at and say,

418
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:18,920
is there any issue there? But he's sort of the

419
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,880
player where it's he's good and he will be good

420
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,640
on a bad team, but he's not like good enough

421
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,400
to ruin your tank or not your tank, but your

422
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,079
your organic rebuild, whatever you want to call it. And

423
00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:32,240
so I would say just because I'm already open to

424
00:19:32,279 --> 00:19:35,759
the idea that I missed on Donovan Klingen in the draft,

425
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,039
that I feel better about Portland's future even though I

426
00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:40,799
think that they're gonna win fewer games next season.

427
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could get behind that, all right. I want to.

428
00:19:43,279 --> 00:19:46,680
I want to nominate another the other really difficult one

429
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,759
for me in the West, and that's the Sacramento Kings.

430
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 1: So I just I love how we're just going, and

431
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,640
we're not going at alphabetical order.

432
00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 2: I didn't even mean to do that, right. See, you

433
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,240
can't stop me from trying to be organized accident, even accidentally.

434
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,160
So I think we are pretty much of the same

435
00:20:06,279 --> 00:20:09,599
mind about the main offseason decision, which was the DeMar

436
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,799
DeRozan sign and trade uh Net talent upgrade, potential for

437
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:16,599
the whole to be less than the some of the

438
00:20:16,599 --> 00:20:18,759
parts because you have a lot of overlapping skills, a

439
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:22,319
lot of primary offensive players that are not very valuable

440
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,319
off the ball. So how do you make that work

441
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,759
between him, Sabonis, Fox, Malik Monk. Not that all those

442
00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:31,559
guys are valueless off the ball, but generally speaking, you

443
00:20:31,599 --> 00:20:35,039
they're best with it. I think the defense should be

444
00:20:35,079 --> 00:20:36,440
worse with de Rozan.

445
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,079
Speaker 1: You are, I already hear the comments in the U two.

446
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,839
Who I just I'm not even trolling Kings fans here,

447
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,200
but they really there's a lot of them that seem

448
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,759
to lead that Demard Rozan is going to be more

449
00:20:50,839 --> 00:20:54,079
valuable on defense than Harrison Barnes. And I don't think

450
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,440
Harrison Barnes was good on defense last year. I think

451
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,400
what happened like if you look at what DeMar de

452
00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:01,759
Rozen needs to do in Chicago and who Demarta Rosen

453
00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:03,160
got to play with in a lot of his minutes

454
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,319
versus who Harrison Barnes was covering last year, you can't

455
00:21:07,319 --> 00:21:10,000
even ask Demart Rosen to try doing that. At least

456
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,000
Harrison Barnes was, Okay, he kind of has like the

457
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,119
archetype of has to do that. And so I'm just

458
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,960
I'm only interjecting because a lot of Kings fans seem

459
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,240
to just think that Tomarta Rosen is the more valuable

460
00:21:20,759 --> 00:21:24,279
defensive player, and I just think that's not reading enough

461
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:26,960
into the context of where he was and how he

462
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,119
was used in Chicago.

463
00:21:28,519 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 2: I guess I could be convinced that DeRozan and Barnes

464
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,000
are similar defensively, or like close enough that it might

465
00:21:36,039 --> 00:21:39,039
not be a huge drop off. I think I still

466
00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:40,880
think if if I had to choose, will the defense

467
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,480
be better or worse? Just the personnel suggests it should

468
00:21:43,519 --> 00:21:45,839
be worse. And maybe Kean Ellis plays more offsets that,

469
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,880
but who's who, which which off the offensive weapons is

470
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,759
not playing if he's out there, you know that. So

471
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,880
the other thing for me, and this is really I'm

472
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,480
gonna go I'm gonna go worse. Because they won forty

473
00:21:56,519 --> 00:21:58,559
six games a year ago, we should probably lead with

474
00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:02,960
with that. I'm going worse for all those reasons, combined

475
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,200
with the fact that I think a couple teams that

476
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,599
finished below the Kings Houston San Antonio could threaten to

477
00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:12,160
get up into that range. And the fact that clutch

478
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:17,680
performance was a huge driver of the Kings exceeding their

479
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,200
point differential, which was that of like a forty two

480
00:22:20,279 --> 00:22:20,839
win team.

481
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 1: So we're talking.

482
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,039
Speaker 2: Really about it unless you believe that clutch luck carries over,

483
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,480
which given some of the guys on the King's roster

484
00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:29,640
like Fox and Deroz and they got I mean they

485
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,880
have clutch players or guys that have historically been clutch.

486
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,559
We're knocking four wins off, right, there, like they were

487
00:22:36,599 --> 00:22:38,400
not really a forty six win team. If you put

488
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,640
any stock in point differential, which I think we both do.

489
00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:44,400
I certainly do, so the bar is actually lower, and

490
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,279
so they could be roughly the same team as last year,

491
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,839
or even a little better in terms of, you know,

492
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,200
the point differential, and still win forty four or whatever

493
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,160
and finish worse. So this was a hard one for

494
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,079
all the reasons I've stated. Do you have anything to

495
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,319
add or are we just like too in lockstep on this?

496
00:23:01,599 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 1: Oh, I actually disagree. I think they're going to be better. Okay, great,

497
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,599
So I look at there and I had a conversation

498
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,519
with Greg Whissinger on the side about their He've mentioned

499
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:14,160
how their top end defensive units were firing by the

500
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,359
end of last season. What I doubt there is. I

501
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,440
think it's actually harder if you're if we're assuming the

502
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,000
guys that they want to play the most, that it's

503
00:23:20,039 --> 00:23:22,000
going to be harder for them to get to a

504
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:26,599
league defensive units. However, their issue from my end was offense.

505
00:23:26,839 --> 00:23:29,039
Last year. There are fourteenth in point scored per possession,

506
00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:31,440
which for a team built around Daron Fox and Demanta

507
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,359
Sabonis is just not even close to good enough, and

508
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,240
so you start to dig into it, and I agree

509
00:23:36,279 --> 00:23:38,319
with you that everyone is kind of more comfortable on

510
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,119
the ball. But if you look of all the rotation

511
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,319
players on the Kings last year, every single one of

512
00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:46,200
the regular rotation players, darreon Fox was the only player

513
00:23:46,519 --> 00:23:50,400
who scored a majority of his buckets unassisted. And so

514
00:23:50,519 --> 00:23:52,359
now you bring into Rose because look, that's not the

515
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,000
leik Monk's game. Sa Bonus is more of a driver

516
00:23:55,079 --> 00:23:57,279
of playmaking than he is of looking for his own offense.

517
00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:00,640
Now you bring into Rosen, you have that other outside creator.

518
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,039
You're getting another and this is why so I'm more

519
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,359
concerned about the defense because I think the mart Roz

520
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,400
is gonna help the offense that much. And he's shown

521
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,480
hill up his three point volume. Will he hit them

522
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,720
as a different story. So Bonus shot the three ball

523
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,039
well last year, just not in higher volume. Is there

524
00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:18,759
wiggle room there? Do you look at staggering them? And

525
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:21,599
that's what's also interesting about this team. They're staggered. Star

526
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,480
minutes were pretty bad last year. When you look at

527
00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:25,839
just the Bonus and now those I would think they

528
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,039
get strengthened where you could surround just Sabonus and de

529
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,799
Rosen with a bunch of shooters and make it work

530
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:32,119
that way, or you could stagger those two. They've all

531
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,440
these different options of how they could stagger their best players,

532
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,680
which I think you just get forty eight more complete

533
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,359
minutes of basketball. And I think I'm ultimately optimistic on

534
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,160
the defensive end for three reasons. Uh you mentioned keon

535
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,319
El's already. I think he's really good, especially when he's

536
00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:48,400
gonna get to go if he's going up against like smaller,

537
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:54,160
twitchier advantage creators. I think two, Keagan Murray is one

538
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,440
of the most underrated defenders in basketball to me, yep,

539
00:24:56,519 --> 00:24:59,000
right now, everything from his one on one stuff to

540
00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:01,440
just like kind of as a hell guy around the basket.

541
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,599
He was top thirty in shots contested at the rim

542
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,160
last year. I know that's kind of a function of

543
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,880
Wile Sabonis as your center, but like that's fucking wild.

544
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,480
And Third, this is a team that is going to

545
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:14,200
make a move. I don't know if it's gonna be

546
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:16,519
how big it is, but I think that this is

547
00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:19,079
like I've said the Calves, I would also say the Kings,

548
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:21,920
Like that's a Dori Infiney Smith team, and given that

549
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,960
if you're able to get that level of player by

550
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,960
the trade deadline, given the defensive improvement that Fox has shown,

551
00:25:27,079 --> 00:25:29,599
given the off ball improvement Fox has shown basically since

552
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:32,440
Sabonis's arrival, I think this is I don't want to

553
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,039
say a sleeping giant, but this feels like a forty seven,

554
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:37,920
forty eight to forty nine win team to me, even

555
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,960
in the current West landscape. But finally, I'll say this

556
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:41,880
very quickly, I think you are right to say that

557
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,279
they could wind up winning forty four forty five games,

558
00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:48,240
and that's not necessarily it could be an indictment on

559
00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:50,160
what they became, but it might just say more about

560
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,680
the West than WHOA this team got worse.

561
00:25:53,759 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm receptive to all that. I think I

562
00:25:56,759 --> 00:25:59,279
should have mentioned Murray, and I do think the case

563
00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:02,160
you'd make is like, well, Murray, whether it's good or

564
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,440
bad for his long term development, slips down the offensive

565
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,799
pecking order, but that means like, well, he's got more

566
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,039
juice to just defend the best guy all the time,

567
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,440
and that that's helpful for their defense. I think ultimately

568
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:17,960
the two things I'll say one I would have done

569
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000
the DeRozan trade, even though I have so many reservations

570
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,440
about it. And two, if I could have picked instead

571
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,640
of better or worse, same, I think I would have

572
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:32,039
for this team more readily than any other. So I

573
00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:34,799
still I guess, like historically, I just have to underrate

574
00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:36,640
the Kings because that's kind of my brand, and so

575
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,799
I'm sticking with it. Yeah, I I all good arguments.

576
00:26:41,839 --> 00:26:43,680
I think this will be one to watch for sure,

577
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,559
because I just I don't believe in the in the

578
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:48,720
theory of the team, I guess as much as you do.

579
00:26:48,759 --> 00:26:50,079
And maybe that's what it comes down to.

580
00:26:50,519 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: They are probably one of the more polarizing teams in

581
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:53,680
the league.

582
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,559
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, I guess, I don't know, Like I don't.

583
00:26:57,599 --> 00:26:59,559
Don't you think that most people would say they're going

584
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,839
to be about the same. Maybe maybe just the loud

585
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,880
voices are on the extremes that we're exposed to. I

586
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:06,279
don't know.

587
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,559
Speaker 1: So I should yell into the microphone that they're gonna

588
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:10,480
be better, and that'll I should.

589
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,559
Speaker 2: Yell they're gonna be worse, But I don't really feel

590
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,240
super strongly. All right, you nominate somebody not The.

591
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,279
Speaker 1: Supers go out of order from the bottom row here

592
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:20,359
for anyone watching on YouTube. I apologize in advance, Grant.

593
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:22,720
I feel like we should do no, No, We're gonna

594
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,960
do the Pelicans. I don't know how to feel about

595
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,279
this team, and we all know that I am notoriously

596
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:32,440
like sniffing everything that's coming out of New Orleans, throwing

597
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,319
it right up my nose. I think Zion Williams in

598
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,400
at peak is one of ten best players in the NBA.

599
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:39,559
Is he going to be healthy enough to do that?

600
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:43,079
I love the Dejente Murray acquisition. I don't understand what's

601
00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:45,519
going on at center right now where it's I guess

602
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:49,039
it's Zion and Daniel Tye and Eve mecI, and I

603
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,119
just I there's a move to be made there and

604
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,440
look condolence as the Pelicans fans. You now can't trade

605
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,400
for Jared Allen until basically around the trade deadline is

606
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,440
when he'll be trade eligible again, so there's still hope

607
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,559
it could happen, but it's not happening before the season.

608
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,319
I just look at them and I like so many

609
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:08,039
of their players individually, and that includes I like Brandon Ingram.

610
00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:10,400
I think he's a good basketball player. But like, if

611
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,240
we're gonna go through another season. If he is not

612
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,599
upping his three point volume and he's dribbling out of

613
00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:17,079
open threes or something, you're gonna have a real problem

614
00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:19,160
because you've now added someone else into the fold, and

615
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,440
de Jontay Murray who has been willing to up his

616
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,079
three point volume, but you need to put the ball

617
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,400
in his hands. So brandon Ingram, even if you're gonna

618
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,640
stagger aggressively, like brandon Ingram, needs to do more as

619
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,319
a complimentary asset or they need to find a move

620
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,200
for him. And my concern here is, and I should

621
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,119
have mentioned, they're working off a baseline from last season

622
00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:42,480
with forty nine wins. They have so like almost fifty.

623
00:28:42,519 --> 00:28:44,440
It's like there's not if you want them to be better,

624
00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:46,920
Like there's like they have to clear the fifty when

625
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,599
that's not gonna be easy in this West. I'm kind

626
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,359
of leaning worse until we figure out the brandon Ingram

627
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,920
of it all, the center of it all. And just

628
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,400
like the track record suggest that even if Zion Williamson

629
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,759
does everything right, come in shape, get the diet down,

630
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,759
play his ass off on defense, his body's just gonna

631
00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:07,240
betray him because life is unfair. Like he's just gonna

632
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,519
be in the middle of a generational performance against the Lakers,

633
00:29:09,519 --> 00:29:11,839
and the Rug's gonna be ripped out from underneath him.

634
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:14,359
I don't like saying this just because I love the

635
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,640
Zion and de Jontay Murray, Trey Murphy, Herb Jones dynamic.

636
00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:21,599
It's like everything else after that. And finally, even if

637
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,680
you believe they're going to improve the team, anything they

638
00:29:24,759 --> 00:29:27,720
do almost has to be massive because it's like, look

639
00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:29,640
at they gave up their kind of two of their

640
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,000
smaller or medium sized salary matching chips to get the

641
00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:35,839
Jontey Murray and lyonn Ns Junior and Dyson Daniels. And

642
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,000
now it's okay, like you could still do something with

643
00:29:38,079 --> 00:29:41,440
Jordan Hawkins. But if you're otherwise, you're looking at, oh CJ.

644
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:44,799
McCollum thirty plus million, brandon Ingram thirty five plus million,

645
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,599
And so are they prepared to do something on that scale?

646
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,559
And what is brandon Ingram even worth? Not just in

647
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,640
an extension, what's the number that would make you resign

648
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,480
him and give yourself some continuity or at least know okay,

649
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,119
because if you let that leak into the season, that's

650
00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:01,319
gonna be a storyline I could distract the team. And

651
00:30:01,359 --> 00:30:03,319
also I was listening to the Latest in the Know

652
00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:07,839
podcast and it was I really enjoyed the episode. But Schmidt,

653
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,880
do what like this is where we're at with brandon Ingram?

654
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,039
Is I caught shit because I can't remember what the

655
00:30:12,079 --> 00:30:14,440
package was, but I think New Orleans was giving up

656
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,799
a first round pick with brandon Ingram in addition to

657
00:30:16,839 --> 00:30:19,599
getting on Yuka kung Wu and de Jante Murray and

658
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,640
some trade I concocted Schmidt, who had proposed, would you

659
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,799
do Walker Kesler and John Collins for brandon Ingram if

660
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:26,960
you're the Pelicans. I think they ultimately landed up on No.

661
00:30:27,559 --> 00:30:29,839
But like, this is where we're at. Yeah, like you're

662
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,119
not getting multiple first round picks for brandon Ingram. To

663
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:34,720
what would we take this kind of salary filler guy

664
00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:37,279
in John Collins who stretches the floor but isn't gonna

665
00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:39,680
do much for rim protection? Noill rebound, and then we'll

666
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,119
take Walker Kesler, who I don't know if he's like

667
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,319
selling children on the black market or something, but the

668
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,960
Jazz seemed to hate him. I so, like, I just

669
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,240
I don't know how to feel about this team.

670
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,599
Speaker 2: So I think I'm a little I'm one. I'm surprised

671
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,400
that I uh am higher on them than you are.

672
00:30:56,519 --> 00:31:01,160
I see them being better, and that is while acknowledging

673
00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:04,720
this is maybe the first time I've I have not

674
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:08,720
just let the Zion Williamson injury slash conditioning risk make

675
00:31:08,759 --> 00:31:11,200
me choose like the under I think like I just

676
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,440
am always be pessimistic about that. I don't know why

677
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,200
I'm changing my tune. I think it's just because we

678
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,319
saw him make like what was a pretty marked conversion

679
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,920
midway through the year last year, and maybe that's doesn't

680
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,759
mitigate the risk of like, oh, his knee goes out

681
00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:27,839
or whatever. But I do think there's reason to believe

682
00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:30,160
he's going to be at least in better shape than

683
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,319
in the past, and so we know what he can

684
00:31:32,359 --> 00:31:35,599
do when he is fit and like on the ball

685
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,440
and is just one of the best offensive players in

686
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,720
the world. I think the de Jonte Murray edition gives

687
00:31:40,759 --> 00:31:43,319
me some optimism. I think the fact that there is

688
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,359
just so clearly a trade to be made, like the

689
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,920
center thing, it just has to change. You've outlined, like

690
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,480
the mechanics of that are harder than ever. I just

691
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:54,079
think whoever they get in there has got to be

692
00:31:54,079 --> 00:31:56,319
better than what they have and that maybe that takes

693
00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:58,559
away from somewhere else. But like I think Trey Murphy

694
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,960
is going to be better. I think Herb Jones made

695
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,680
quiet strides again last year. He's still young enough to improve.

696
00:32:03,759 --> 00:32:06,839
I think Jordan Hawkins is a huge weapon that like

697
00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:09,680
this kind of movement shooter with tons of gravity as

698
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,880
a rookie, already like gets plays run for him watching

699
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,000
I was watching film on him today because I'm weirdo

700
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,240
and just like his sick o. Sorry, we gotta use

701
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,559
our branding. And he just he's already a guy that,

702
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,000
like any screen he sets just causes chaos because you

703
00:32:24,039 --> 00:32:26,200
can't you have to stay attached to him. So he

704
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,039
has all this offensive value that I think is kind

705
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:31,000
of mostly untapped. There's just ways for a lot of

706
00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:33,039
guys that are already on New Orleans to get better.

707
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,160
And I think bar you know, maybe it's just like oh,

708
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:41,160
barring injury, but like you know, we say that for everybody,

709
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,519
but the Zion thing is real. I just I think

710
00:32:43,559 --> 00:32:46,920
they could win fifty two. Like that doesn't seem crazy

711
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,680
to me. So I'm going to go better and I'm

712
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,039
surprised that we're on the sides of this that we are.

713
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:54,839
Speaker 1: I'm gonna defer to you because I want them to

714
00:32:54,839 --> 00:32:56,599
be better. And if you told me that their starting

715
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,680
center wasn't going to be Daniel Tice or even Zion

716
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,480
william in the sense I don't want him playing that

717
00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:05,240
much center, I would go better. It's just the center thing,

718
00:33:05,279 --> 00:33:08,480
like I'm like, I'm I'm opening the idea that brand

719
00:33:08,559 --> 00:33:10,359
Ingram just might take more threeson that we've seen him

720
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,160
take more threes in the past. I honestly someone asked

721
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,480
me this, I don't know what the thing is. We've

722
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:17,599
never heard anything about him that he's some malcontent who

723
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,640
won't work. Like has been quite the opposite of the

724
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,039
stuff you hear about him, So what like, is it

725
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,400
something that's just psychological? The center position makes it uncomfortable

726
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,599
in the lack of a resolution and also the idea

727
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,279
that if there is going to be a resolution, it

728
00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:34,079
almost has to be somewhat significant. So I'm gonna just

729
00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:35,759
go better because I'm that much of a believer in

730
00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:37,720
Zion Lingams And as you mentioned Trey Murphy, like that

731
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,319
is you figure out a way to get him in

732
00:33:39,319 --> 00:33:40,799
the starting lineup. I don't care who you're bringing off

733
00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:41,920
the bench to do it. And if you know what,

734
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,440
if it's a matter of starting Zion at the five,

735
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:45,559
so be it. Then let's just start Trey Murphy. I

736
00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:47,200
think bringing CJ off the bench is kind of an

737
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,279
easy decision. Stagger your stars and sure they're shooting coming

738
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:52,599
off the bench. Trey Murphy replaces that in the starting lineup.

739
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,880
But whatever, what do I know, Grant, what's the next

740
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:55,559
team we're going to?

741
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: All right, let's do an easy one here, arguably the

742
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,759
easiest on the board. So let's just knock it out.

743
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,039
The Memphis Grizzlies. Twenty seven wins last year. Everybody on

744
00:34:05,079 --> 00:34:07,720
the entire roster who mattered other than I guess Jaron

745
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:13,440
Jackson was injured, suspended, whatever. There's just no way they

746
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,079
don't win twenty more games than that this year, right, Like,

747
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:19,119
I just I don't know what else there is to

748
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:21,519
really say, Like we've seen this team win fifty plus

749
00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:24,960
twice in a row when healthy. Last year was an outlier.

750
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,079
I don't know how much more in detail we need

751
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:30,519
to get, Like, oh, Gig Jackson and Vince Williams Junior

752
00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:32,920
got all these reps that they wouldn't have otherwise because

753
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,079
the team was so threadbare. They'll be better, they'll be helpful.

754
00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:38,039
Like if those are your ninth and tenth guys or whatever,

755
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,360
you're awesome. It's just like twenty seven, Like there's no

756
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,199
way they win fewer than twenty seven. So it's just

757
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,960
this is the easiest one on the board. They're gonna

758
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:46,320
be better.

759
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're gonna be way better. The only really matter

760
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,280
of debate, and that's it's just a matter of how

761
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,199
much better they would be is how much are they

762
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,400
gonna leaned on Zach Edie. What does that look like?

763
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,760
And does that adversely or positively impact their ceiling? But

764
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,679
he should help, he should. Honestly, I think they might

765
00:35:01,679 --> 00:35:04,239
wind up being scariers because he probably unlocks the best

766
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,159
possible version of Jaron Jackson Junior on defense because he

767
00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:09,480
just does the rim protection and rebounding stuff, and then

768
00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:11,519
that just frees Upjaron Jackson. You're going to fly around

769
00:35:11,559 --> 00:35:14,400
like a cycle path or siko and really just function

770
00:35:14,599 --> 00:35:16,320
up for other teams. And so I don't think we

771
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,199
need to spend more time on apologies to Grizzlies fans.

772
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:20,119
We did do an in depth look at them previously.

773
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:22,599
To go check out that clip YouTube. It's also on

774
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:25,599
our podcast. But it's just like they're gonna win more games.

775
00:35:25,639 --> 00:35:28,159
Like with the theory of just John Rant Bade Jared

776
00:35:28,199 --> 00:35:30,079
Jackson Junior destroyed opponents when they were on the court

777
00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:32,679
together the previous season. I thought Marcus Martt was bad

778
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,199
last year when you look at the way he was

779
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,400
running the offense. Maybe that was about the talent deficit

780
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,800
around him. But you pair those four with him and

781
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,599
Zach Edy and GG Jackson, Vince Williams. You already mentioned

782
00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:43,960
those names. Luke Canard is back. I do worry about

783
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,239
their shooting overall, but I think the bigger thing, and

784
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,159
I promise I'm wrapping it up here, is you mentioned

785
00:35:48,199 --> 00:35:52,039
the reps GG Jackson and Vince Williams got the reps

786
00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:54,239
that Jared Jackson Junior just been Bane got just without

787
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,559
John rant I think is gonna make them way better.

788
00:35:56,599 --> 00:35:58,559
And Des von Baine was already tracking towards that. But

789
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,760
Jared Jackson Junior base like quadrupling his ISO frequency and

790
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,920
like kind of not sucking in those situations. That's just gonna,

791
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,239
I think make him a better all around player.

792
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, easy one. All right, your turn, my turn?

793
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: Do I go easy here too? Yeah? San Antonio spurs

794
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,480
great winners of maybe it's not easy, but winners of

795
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,800
twenty two games last year. I would say they're very

796
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,760
clearly gonna be better. And I will continue to cite

797
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,280
the stat that we cite and that everyone cites. They

798
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,840
outscored opponents by five point two points per one hundred

799
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,079
possessions with Victor Webnyama and Trey Jones on the court

800
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,800
last year. Chris Paul is now on this team. Even

801
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,920
if you think that Chris Paul aged thirty nine is

802
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,320
not better than Trey Jones, I would argue against that.

803
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,639
But the theory of this is you now have Victor

804
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:49,039
Webenyama probably playing every single one of his minutes next

805
00:36:49,079 --> 00:36:53,440
to a competent floor general, and that just drums up

806
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,559
the ceiling on your team exponentially. The caveat might be

807
00:36:57,639 --> 00:36:59,480
so even during those minutes with Trade Jones, they had

808
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,159
a below average offense, may was in like the forty

809
00:37:02,199 --> 00:37:05,960
third percent tile, but like again, just scale that. Now

810
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,920
Trey Jones minutes all of a sudden going up against

811
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,400
second units again rather than eventually I mean he started

812
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,920
too late for san Antonio. I just think all you

813
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,159
say it all the time, all things are possible through Wemby,

814
00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:19,079
and I would say this is the best way I

815
00:37:19,119 --> 00:37:23,079
would frame it, that they'll be closer to five hundred,

816
00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:25,880
then they'll be closer to thirty wins. I think that's

817
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,159
like closer to forty one than then closer to thirty.

818
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: I have a so I was worried you were going

819
00:37:31,519 --> 00:37:33,280
to say the exact same take that I've kind of

820
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,360
been formulating on them. I think they're more likely to

821
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,239
two x their win total, which would be forty four

822
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,039
off of last year's twenty two, than they are to

823
00:37:41,559 --> 00:37:44,079
like I don't know, to win, certainly to win fewer games,

824
00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:46,239
but I just feel like twice as many wins is right,

825
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,119
Like I don't know, maybe that's too optimistic, but like

826
00:37:49,679 --> 00:37:51,519
a couple of other things too. I don't Just to

827
00:37:51,559 --> 00:37:54,599
add to what you were saying, like you're the biggest

828
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:57,320
Devon fa Celle supporter, I know, Like I think Devinvesell

829
00:37:57,559 --> 00:38:00,039
is gonna be better. It's not just Wemby. The benefits

830
00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:02,599
for multiple capable point guards being on the roster. It's

831
00:38:02,639 --> 00:38:05,360
someone that you know can do stuff on his own,

832
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,639
but I think still everybody benefits from like good spoon

833
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,880
fed looks right, and he's not exclusive there, Like what

834
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,159
if Keldon Johnson gets back on the track he was

835
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,800
two three years ago. It just like Jeremy Sohan doesn't

836
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,920
have to play point guard anymore. That was an interesting

837
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,360
like it just sort of Now it's a lot to

838
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,519
put on Chris Paul's plate because he's at an age

839
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:26,480
where it's like he might play twenty five games. So

840
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,639
I guess that's your downside. They're not winning fewer than

841
00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:33,000
twenty two just because Wemby is gonna be an All

842
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:35,440
NBA player, He's gonna win Defensive Player of the Year.

843
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,119
He's gonna put up numbers that we just haven't seen.

844
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,719
Like that's that's just a given, right, So I don't

845
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,000
the Chris Paul thing like puts it way over the top.

846
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,440
But you don't even need that to say they're gonna

847
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:47,760
win more than twenty two games.

848
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: So argument shooting probably also helps their offense as well too,

849
00:38:51,559 --> 00:38:54,559
just opening up the floor. If Kelden Johnson isn't making threes.

850
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,119
Speaker 2: Yep, no, they just have two more like capable competent

851
00:38:57,199 --> 00:39:01,119
professional NBA vets that film and then they just have

852
00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:03,920
a guy who's got no ceiling. So I's like twenty

853
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,079
two is ridiculous.

854
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,599
Speaker 1: What's more likely for them, though, that Wemby is so

855
00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:09,480
good or they're so good that they make I won't

856
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:12,840
say a super duper blockbuster trade, but they make a

857
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,239
trade to improve their team materially improve. Someone who cracks

858
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:18,800
could crack the closing lineup for the top six or

859
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,079
seven of the rotation, or they end up steering out

860
00:39:22,079 --> 00:39:23,960
of being too good.

861
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 2: I think the former's more likely, just because I mean,

862
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,119
one because they can, they have enough draft assets to

863
00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:34,960
do it, and two because like I don't, I don't

864
00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:40,039
think they don't seem wired to me to you got Wemby,

865
00:39:40,199 --> 00:39:43,519
like unless unless, unless everybody's hurt and you can, you know,

866
00:39:43,639 --> 00:39:45,559
be the worst team in the league and somehow get

867
00:39:45,559 --> 00:39:48,400
Cooper Flag out of this, like your set, you have

868
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,360
the foundational piece, Like we didn't even mention Stefan Castle,

869
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,519
Like there's another high lottery guy that you got a

870
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:57,920
couple now and the Selle still has the lottery pedigree?

871
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,519
Was he a lottery pick anyway? Good young player p degree,

872
00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:03,840
So like you don't need more, I don't think of

873
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,679
like of that kind of thing to justify it, being like, oh,

874
00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:09,480
we're gonna win. I don't know what's the number. We're

875
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,960
gonna win thirty eight games? We got a Utah Jazz

876
00:40:12,039 --> 00:40:13,840
this and make sure for the last two months of

877
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,960
the year. We just creator like I don't I don't

878
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:16,639
see that one.

879
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,559
Speaker 1: I like that you started.

880
00:40:18,639 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 2: You have Wemby that's gonna be OpEd there, honestly, like

881
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,960
I just continuing to speak at all the main points

882
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,119
have been made. Let's see is it my turn it is?

883
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,199
Let's see have we not done a row here? Okay,

884
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,679
let's go to the top row. Let's do the Houston Rockets.

885
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,199
Let's stay in Texas. Uh. They won, So they already

886
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,400
have like made a rare jump and wins year over

887
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,320
year because they went from twenty two to forty one

888
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,159
last season. They're not gonna add another nineteen wins. I

889
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:45,679
don't think. Uh, it doesn't feel like a sixty win

890
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,119
team to me, But I think they're gonna be better.

891
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,679
Just like pick your breakout guy, Like there's seventeen of

892
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,039
them on this roster. Uh, and that's that's exclusive of

893
00:40:56,119 --> 00:40:59,000
guys like Alprin Shangoon who still could have another level

894
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:02,480
to his game. Fringe All star Jalen Green. I don't know,

895
00:41:02,519 --> 00:41:04,280
like they don't need him to break out to be better,

896
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,239
but if he's anything close to that closing run, then great.

897
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:09,920
I'm and Thompson, I think I'm super high on him.

898
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,599
Still Cam Witmore as a bucket. You get Tarry easton

899
00:41:12,679 --> 00:41:15,320
back he barely played last year, Read Shepherd looks like

900
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,360
the I mean, the best rookie I saw in Summer League.

901
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,119
Speaker 1: So I just I'm still gonna in the bag for

902
00:41:23,159 --> 00:41:26,639
Cody Williams, who finished atop my draft board. But I

903
00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:29,119
watching read Shepherd, I was just like, why wasn't he

904
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:30,920
a top everybody's draft board.

905
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:33,599
Speaker 2: His shit is gonna work. It's just gonna work, Like

906
00:41:33,679 --> 00:41:35,800
I think that was the concern. It's like a guy

907
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,440
that looks like that with these measurables, like who who's

908
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,880
good that that is? That is that way? And it's like, well, uh,

909
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,559
he's an awesome shooter and he works hard on defense.

910
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:48,519
He's really smart and he makes all the floaters.

911
00:41:48,639 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, like his just the the mid

912
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,159
range game, just like all the off the dribble jumpers.

913
00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:55,880
From there, it's gonna keep defenses on tilt and he'll

914
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,320
open the floor away from the ball. I am surprised.

915
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:01,760
I think here I'm going better as well. You're more confident,

916
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,480
it sounds like than I am, because they're still in

917
00:42:04,519 --> 00:42:08,079
this quasi development phase when you just look at all

918
00:42:08,199 --> 00:42:11,119
the like prospects they're going to lean on, but there's

919
00:42:11,159 --> 00:42:13,840
not is there a single I guess you could maybe

920
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,840
make the case for Jalen Green, but he seems more lateral,

921
00:42:17,159 --> 00:42:19,400
just like there's no one on this roster factors in

922
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,360
the rotation that's on the downs where it's like, oh,

923
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,079
their stock is like Dyln Brooks' needle is pointed upward everywhere,

924
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:26,280
right Yeah. No.

925
00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:30,159
Speaker 2: I even mentioned Jabari Smith Junior, who I think made

926
00:42:30,199 --> 00:42:33,079
real strides last year shot thirty six percent from three,

927
00:42:33,119 --> 00:42:35,079
Like you can use him as a small ball center

928
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:37,519
against he just it's all these guys, Like if there's

929
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:40,360
a problem here, it's that they have too many of

930
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,320
these guys. And then it's like, oh, well, okay, I

931
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,760
guess we make a consolidation trade for a win now player,

932
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,840
like using two of our young guys that just can't

933
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,599
get minute. It's like, there's no it's just hard for

934
00:42:49,639 --> 00:42:51,719
me to see this going badly. And I also think

935
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,039
finally that like I think Immiodoka just imparts like a

936
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:58,840
fucking seriousness to every team that he coaches, and the

937
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,800
Rockets just like aren't. They're not messing around, like they're

938
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,960
gonna try to win all the time, and like they

939
00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:06,800
have guys that operate that way like Brooks, like Fred

940
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,039
van Vliet, like Shingoun who's super competitive, Like they just

941
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,960
forty one win, like they're not a five hundred team.

942
00:43:13,079 --> 00:43:14,920
I just I just think they're they're bound to be

943
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,840
better than that because of the personnel and just how

944
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,199
just how they sort of seem to be wired well.

945
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,559
Speaker 1: The pathway for them to be worse though beyond injury,

946
00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:26,199
of course, would just be if he's if Emoodoko or

947
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,400
the organization in general is more concerned about, well, we're

948
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,920
gonna like cap minute distribution to try and fit in

949
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,800
all these guys, and we want to prioritize the development

950
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,320
of let's say Aman Thompson over giving minutes to Fred

951
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,360
van Fleet or Dylan Brooks and decisions of that nature.

952
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,079
The other thing they could do. I don't think they will,

953
00:43:44,639 --> 00:43:47,440
but like they have this caps place plan in twenty

954
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:49,079
twenty five, where it's there. I don't know if they're

955
00:43:49,079 --> 00:43:50,840
plan on going free agency huntings so much as we

956
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,199
want that flexibility for a trade, do they view any

957
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,719
of their good players now as more valuable to just

958
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,079
get off the books and get picks for or and

959
00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:03,480
then bring those into the offseason. I just I don't

960
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,519
see an instance where, like I said, if you get

961
00:44:05,519 --> 00:44:07,320
bowled over by the if you get a twenty thirty

962
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,039
one first round picks from Phoenix and now you can

963
00:44:09,079 --> 00:44:11,239
own their draft in twenty seven to twenty nine and

964
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,960
twenty thirty one, give up Tari Eastan so that you

965
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,880
can just pencil in Devin Booker by probably like the

966
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,800
year twenty twenty six twenty seven into a Rockets jersey.

967
00:44:19,039 --> 00:44:21,480
So but even like that, it's like they're not gonna

968
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,519
move out for in Shanghun. I'd be floored. And if

969
00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:25,000
they do move them, it's probably because they got a

970
00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:28,920
king's ransom or something terribly wrong there they have. It's

971
00:44:29,199 --> 00:44:31,079
it's harder for me just because they have so many

972
00:44:31,199 --> 00:44:34,920
The West is so good, and so many players are

973
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,320
just unfinished in Houston. But I don't know how you

974
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,480
look at this team after what they did defensively. Now

975
00:44:39,519 --> 00:44:42,920
look at how they should get improvement offensively, specifically from

976
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:45,519
Jabari Smith Junior. Keep gonna go on the way up.

977
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,880
Now you add read Shepherd, I'm and Thompson will get better.

978
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,559
I it's just I can't bring myself to say worse,

979
00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:53,639
even though I think, and this could be the case

980
00:44:53,639 --> 00:44:55,719
for every team is the West is the West is

981
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,760
the West? And so if you're not sort of this

982
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:00,760
entrenched inner circle contender, it could be a little bit.

983
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,599
There's probably more of the like the floor could fall

984
00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:05,320
out from beneath you see.

985
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 2: I just think that like the West is the West

986
00:45:08,559 --> 00:45:10,840
argument applies. It applies to everybody, but to me, it

987
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,639
applies more to a team like the Kings than the Rockets,

988
00:45:13,679 --> 00:45:18,000
just because every single guy, maybe other than Van Vliet,

989
00:45:18,079 --> 00:45:21,360
I guess because small guards don't age well, every single

990
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,199
guy should that matters should be better. And the last thing,

991
00:45:26,159 --> 00:45:30,000
they were, by point differential, a forty six win team

992
00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:32,320
last year. The difference between their actual wins and what

993
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,639
their point differential said they should have won was the

994
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,800
highest in the league. So like, they're already better, they

995
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,559
just didn't show it last year. And unless you think

996
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:43,880
the Thompson's and Smith's and whoever else of the world

997
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,400
are gonna get worse, which like, why would they like? Man,

998
00:45:47,599 --> 00:45:50,320
I don't know. I'm talking myself into some real irrational

999
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,480
opinions on the Rockets, but I'll just leave it saying

1000
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,920
I think they're better than forty one wins.

1001
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:58,599
Speaker 1: It is my turn and we go to Let's go

1002
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:02,000
to the Los Angeles Lakers. They won forty seven games

1003
00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:06,639
last year. They have done save for hiring JJ Reddick

1004
00:46:06,679 --> 00:46:11,480
and drafting Dalton Connect, absolutely nothing zippo this offseason. Just

1005
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:18,480
I mean, obviously their financial situation is restrictive, but it's

1006
00:46:18,519 --> 00:46:22,519
not impossible to navigate. And they're not a second Apron team,

1007
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,719
so you could have aggregated salaries in a trade. As

1008
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,159
long as you're taking back you're not taking back more money.

1009
00:46:27,159 --> 00:46:31,199
You're taking back the same or less money. Here's the

1010
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,480
other thing I'm leaning towards worse unless they do something.

1011
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:36,960
All these takes are subject to change's before opening night.

1012
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,880
But the thing that's really driving it for me, grant

1013
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,400
Antony Davis and Lebron James played three six hundred and

1014
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,320
fifteen possessions together. Last season. You're really gonna and the

1015
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,000
Lakers were plus four point five in those minutes. That's respectable.

1016
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,639
You're gonna tell me that they're gonna get that much

1017
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,840
joint time from Lebron and Anthony Davis. Again, Lebron who's

1018
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,719
gonna be in his age forty season, Anthony Davis, who

1019
00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:04,800
historically is always one injury away from being two injuries

1020
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,920
away from returning. Like he's always on the floor. He thought, like,

1021
00:47:09,039 --> 00:47:10,880
I mean literally on the floor. It seems like every

1022
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,639
other play when he's actually like in the rotation. I

1023
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:17,559
think to like, I don't know if the Lakers are

1024
00:47:17,559 --> 00:47:19,000
gonna at this stor it's like, oh, we're not gonna

1025
00:47:19,039 --> 00:47:21,639
We already used up like our best availability season from

1026
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,280
Lebron and Ad. You might as well just stay the

1027
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,320
same and ride this out. And I also don't know

1028
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,960
what avenues were open to them. Clearly they weren't gonna

1029
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,519
get a lowry market in before he signed his Utah's tension.

1030
00:47:31,559 --> 00:47:33,480
They weren't Trey Young. It doesn't look like he was

1031
00:47:33,519 --> 00:47:36,760
ever available, but like they probably could have beaten the

1032
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,800
Pelicans offer for de Jontay Murray. I don't know if

1033
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,440
Atlanta just maybe value Dyson Daniels more but like this

1034
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,119
is a team that somehow, some way should have been

1035
00:47:44,159 --> 00:47:47,400
more invested in getting better. Yeah, and you have to

1036
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,400
when we're naming all these other teams that are gonna

1037
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,639
get better, the Sun's, the Spurs, the Rockets, the Pelicans,

1038
00:47:53,639 --> 00:47:57,199
apparently the Grizzlies. How are the Lakers supposed to be?

1039
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,320
What is the pathway to this Lakers team as it

1040
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,400
currently sits winning even as many games as they did

1041
00:48:03,519 --> 00:48:04,079
last season.

1042
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 2: You gave the possession total for ad and Lebron. I

1043
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,880
always cite the games one hundred and forty seven combined.

1044
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,559
Seventy six games for Anthony Davis were a career high,

1045
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,480
seventy one for James was the most since seventeen eighteen.

1046
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,039
Just it's not gonna happen again. That's just that's what

1047
00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:23,000
it is. And had they supplemented the roster beyond the

1048
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,360
move I was gonna say moves, but beyond the move

1049
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,599
you mentioned, which is drafting Ton connect like losing like

1050
00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:31,559
it's it's a problem when you've got to figure out

1051
00:48:31,639 --> 00:48:34,599
how to fill Torrian Prince's minutes, Like that's that's not

1052
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:37,800
ideal if you're trying to get better. So I just

1053
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,800
you know, and and like put the games played for

1054
00:48:42,519 --> 00:48:46,559
the two stars aside, just like general age, like Lebron,

1055
00:48:47,039 --> 00:48:50,360
it's it's coming slowly, but like he's he's just not

1056
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,079
going to be the same Anthony Davis MICUs.

1057
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: I won't accept that. And he says he's not playing

1058
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,239
in the twenty twenty eight Olympics. I call BS run

1059
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,400
it back well age forty four Lebron or forty three,

1060
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:00,000
whatever it will be.

1061
00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:03,199
Speaker 2: It really more than any other team. This is just

1062
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,400
the simplest calculus, which is just that their two best

1063
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,360
players will not play as much and they don't have

1064
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,440
anybody else that's new to improve on what happened last year.

1065
00:49:12,599 --> 00:49:16,639
Speaker 1: Now do you think though that we've talked about this

1066
00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:19,159
with the Warriors where we can't identify the player that

1067
00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:22,519
would actually make them a contender? I mean that is

1068
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:26,079
within the realm of actually acquiring. Do you get that

1069
00:49:26,199 --> 00:49:28,519
vibe with the Lakers? And if you do, shouldn't we

1070
00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:32,039
be more empathetic towards them doing nothing? Sort of how

1071
00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:36,119
the Warriors held their ground in lowry marketing talks or

1072
00:49:36,159 --> 00:49:38,000
is it well? No, like you have Lebron and ad

1073
00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:41,760
who are too like the the sum of the warriors

1074
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,199
two best players right now, Draymond Green and Steph Curry.

1075
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,920
I guess if you even considered Draymond their second best player,

1076
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,960
I would like it, just like Lebron and Ad at

1077
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,239
their peaks are gonna amount to more than Steph and

1078
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,159
Draymond at their I don't It does feel like people

1079
00:49:55,199 --> 00:49:57,400
are more critical of what the Lakers, of the Lakers

1080
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,639
doing nothing than they are of the Warriors, maybe because

1081
00:49:59,679 --> 00:50:01,159
the war did stuff.

1082
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 2: Yeah no, I mean the Warriors didn't do nothing that

1083
00:50:04,519 --> 00:50:06,360
I mean. The similarity is that they didn't go get

1084
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,719
the guy that's like, oh my god, ceiling Razor, which

1085
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,880
is you know, I think in general, just speaking for myself,

1086
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,199
like I got to try to be better about saying

1087
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,079
like why didn't you go do this? It's like I'm

1088
00:50:18,119 --> 00:50:20,440
sure they tried, Like there just wasn't a deal that

1089
00:50:20,519 --> 00:50:23,000
made sense for them. I'm trying to give the executives

1090
00:50:23,039 --> 00:50:24,679
like a little more benefit of the doubt because like

1091
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,519
they're spending more time thinking about their team than I am,

1092
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:29,280
and they probably have explored a lot.

1093
00:50:29,119 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: Of I'm the Lakers are we sure.

1094
00:50:34,199 --> 00:50:36,039
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe less so than other teams, but

1095
00:50:36,079 --> 00:50:38,599
you know what I mean, Like, yeah, no, I I

1096
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,440
just they have I think if you're going, if you're

1097
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,000
gonna say they're gonna be better, you have to really

1098
00:50:46,039 --> 00:50:49,800
believe that the ruy Hachi Mura, Gabe Vincent, you know,

1099
00:50:50,039 --> 00:50:54,239
Hodgepodge salary match with whatever assets they can trade is

1100
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,159
something that they would just will do. And and maybe

1101
00:50:57,159 --> 00:50:59,559
that maybe more names and more options emerge as the

1102
00:50:59,559 --> 00:51:02,800
season goes on. But just as it stands now, you

1103
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,360
cannot say they're gonna be better and be like a

1104
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:06,159
serious person.

1105
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: I don't think Yeah, and even the people that are

1106
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,360
citing you get Dalton Connect back and Gabe Vincent and

1107
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,559
Jared Vanderbilt will play more. I one think that's wildly

1108
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:17,960
disingenuous to just say I saw this on Twitter that

1109
00:51:18,039 --> 00:51:19,679
someone thinks Dal't Connect out of the game, it's gonna

1110
00:51:19,679 --> 00:51:22,159
be more valuable than Torrian Prince was to them. I

1111
00:51:22,199 --> 00:51:24,679
guess Torrian Prince is not a good enough player to

1112
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,760
say that that's outside their own possibility, But to just

1113
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,119
assume that, yeah, seem bonkers to me. And the other

1114
00:51:29,159 --> 00:51:30,519
thing we already mentioned it, But I just want to

1115
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:33,239
point this out in case anyone's well, yeah, Jared Vanderbilt,

1116
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,239
Ga Vince are gonna play more. Lebron and a d

1117
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:35,639
are not.

1118
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,079
Speaker 2: How much more are they gonna play like one hundred

1119
00:51:40,119 --> 00:51:42,360
and sixty four games between the two of them and

1120
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:43,599
they'll be All Stars because.

1121
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:47,599
Speaker 1: That Jared Vanderbilt comes with like offensive concessions. So even

1122
00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:50,039
surely you're that much and gave Vincent. Last time we

1123
00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:51,880
tried to ga, Vincent was not hitting his threes. But

1124
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,719
the theory of gave Vincent, yeah, certainly that that makes sense.

1125
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,639
It kind of feels like they expected D'Angel Russell to

1126
00:51:57,679 --> 00:51:59,599
opt out and they were gonna have more flexibility than

1127
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:01,679
they thought, and once he opted in, they had no clue.

1128
00:52:01,679 --> 00:52:03,480
What the fucking do? That's my read on there.

1129
00:52:03,519 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: Off right, all right, let's stay in LA. Let's do

1130
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,480
the Clippers next. Sorry, sorry, it's gonna be worse.

1131
00:52:09,559 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 1: Let's move on. My team is gonna be.

1132
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,079
Speaker 2: We could stop. I mean this can be a quick

1133
00:52:15,079 --> 00:52:17,880
one too, right, fifty one wins. Last year, Kawhi played

1134
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,559
sixty eight games. That's his most since sixteen seventeen. He's

1135
00:52:20,599 --> 00:52:24,039
already somehow hurt or two not one, either hurt or

1136
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:26,639
not good enough to play on Team USA. So you choose,

1137
00:52:26,679 --> 00:52:30,639
I guess, uh no, Paul George. James Harden I firmly

1138
00:52:30,639 --> 00:52:34,079
believe is in rapid decline, Like that's just he's not

1139
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,400
the type of guy that I watched. Man, I was

1140
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,559
watching some James Harden clips the other day from like

1141
00:52:38,639 --> 00:52:40,159
his MVP Rocket season.

1142
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,039
Speaker 1: Dude, Like type of week are you having right now?

1143
00:52:43,039 --> 00:52:44,920
That you were watching film on Jordan Hawkins?

1144
00:52:45,679 --> 00:52:48,119
Speaker 2: Was I doing that? I don't know the YouTube the

1145
00:52:48,199 --> 00:52:51,239
algorithm told me to watch it, probably or something I

1146
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,519
was writing about Jordan Hawkins that was it. I don't

1147
00:52:53,519 --> 00:52:55,920
know what I was thinking about James Harden anyway, He's

1148
00:52:56,599 --> 00:52:59,920
twenty five pounds up from that, like conservatively and does

1149
00:53:00,159 --> 00:53:02,599
not move the same way. Newsflash right, like none of

1150
00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:05,800
us thinking you bench these days still probably a beast

1151
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,199
on the bench. I would say none of us are

1152
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,920
what we used to be. The clips are also fifteen

1153
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:12,920
and fourteen after the All Star break, the days of

1154
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,320
us talking about that thirty and three or whatever. It is,

1155
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,719
like that's not a thing. Kawhi won't be as healthy,

1156
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,760
Paul George is gone, they can't win fifty one games?

1157
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,440
What else you got? Christ's gonna say.

1158
00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: What is the pathway to them getting better? They don't

1159
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,760
even have the assets to get better. Yeah, they could

1160
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,639
dangle a distant first round swap and pick. I don't

1161
00:53:31,639 --> 00:53:34,679
know who the best player you're getting for that is.

1162
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:36,960
And I mean, like they did make something like Batooma's back.

1163
00:53:37,079 --> 00:53:40,039
Derek Jones Junior gives them that athleticism element on both

1164
00:53:40,159 --> 00:53:42,960
ends of the floor. Okay, sure, but it's like, I

1165
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,440
don't feel good about their is like, what does this

1166
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,840
team look like on offense at the end of the day.

1167
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,480
I mean, you have James Harden, who I still think

1168
00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:54,840
is a very talented playmaker. But okay, then Kawhi is

1169
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,960
kind of a secondary person, but Bowens Highland or Kevin

1170
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,679
Porter junior, Chris Dunn is kind of making up your

1171
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,079
backup point guard minutes. And if you want to throw

1172
00:54:03,159 --> 00:54:06,679
Nick Patomb in there, okay, sure, it's just very I

1173
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,440
don't and it makes honestly the way their roster just

1174
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,360
looks right now, I just don't. I don't understand what

1175
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,159
they were thinking with the Paul George stuff. I just

1176
00:54:13,199 --> 00:54:15,880
don't like the second Apron boogeyman thing. Is just you

1177
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,519
were willing to pay him to go into the second

1178
00:54:18,519 --> 00:54:20,639
Apron at least for two like you were gonna sign

1179
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:22,119
him to a three year deal. What's the difference with

1180
00:54:22,159 --> 00:54:23,800
a four year deal. Just figure out a way to

1181
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,360
move him. They'll be teamal trade for Paul George. I

1182
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,559
honestly think that they saw what happened to Quiet the

1183
00:54:28,639 --> 00:54:30,199
end of last season and said, no, this isn't like

1184
00:54:30,199 --> 00:54:32,360
it's over. Yeah, you might lean into it, and.

1185
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,039
Speaker 2: You know what, they weren't. They weren't wrong like we're

1186
00:54:35,039 --> 00:54:37,639
saying it is over. It's just so I guess, Yeah,

1187
00:54:37,679 --> 00:54:40,559
the Paul George things asked that preservation, Like, clearly Paul

1188
00:54:40,559 --> 00:54:42,360
George had a market value that you could have signed

1189
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,599
him to that number and traded him for something like

1190
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,880
you could have done it as opposed to letting him leave.

1191
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,400
But yeah, I just this is this is another quick

1192
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,920
one for me. I don't really you know, again, like

1193
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,440
you said, I don't know what the argument is for

1194
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:56,480
how they're like meaningfully best.

1195
00:54:56,519 --> 00:55:00,119
Speaker 1: Is there a team that you would say if they

1196
00:55:00,199 --> 00:55:02,639
traded Kawhi here, he won't just retire.

1197
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,079
Speaker 2: That's why Dan, I haven't considered that hypothetical before. Uh,

1198
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:11,920
I don't know. The Lakers is that the only one?

1199
00:55:12,039 --> 00:55:14,599
Speaker 1: If there both of these are because the Clippers are

1200
00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:16,760
still a first Apron team, I believe. So, like these

1201
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,119
are two teams that can they can't take back more money,

1202
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:23,199
so just like that makes it super difficult for them,

1203
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,880
unless I'm miss reading the Clipper's salary situation, which I

1204
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,880
don't think I am. I thought about maybe Golden State

1205
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,519
maybe yeah, even though those are tough, like those are

1206
00:55:32,599 --> 00:55:36,199
tough Warders Traverse too. Would I understand that it's not California,

1207
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:37,679
but if it was Oklahoma City, which is like, hey,

1208
00:55:37,679 --> 00:55:40,639
we'll play you twenty minutes a game, dude, you go

1209
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:41,519
there and win a title.

1210
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: You can stay in San Diego five days a week,

1211
00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:47,519
just fly out for like the Thursday game. Maybe that's

1212
00:55:47,559 --> 00:55:49,719
how you do it. He plays once a week and

1213
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,079
that's it. He doesn't have to live in Oklahoma City.

1214
00:55:52,119 --> 00:55:54,239
He could stay where he is. Yeah, that's probably that's

1215
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,559
probably the answer. Right, we should mock up that fake trade.

1216
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: So it's my turn, right, yep, I'm gonna go just

1217
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,400
so I want to hear your thoughts on it. And

1218
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:05,480
we haven't done grades yet, but what what where are

1219
00:56:05,519 --> 00:56:09,239
the Warriors at right now? They won forty six last

1220
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,400
year and so out goes Klay Thompson, but incomes Buddy healed,

1221
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:18,360
and Kyle Anderson and danfy Melton and you have Brandon

1222
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,000
for Jimski is going to be a year year more season.

1223
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:23,800
Jonathan Minga had a very strong close to the season,

1224
00:56:25,039 --> 00:56:28,039
where like, are the Warriors better they what's happening here?

1225
00:56:28,639 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 2: I think I think they're a little better. And part

1226
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,039
of it is just, like you know, there's always lots

1227
00:56:36,039 --> 00:56:38,159
of things that can go wrong, but they won forty

1228
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,400
six with Draymond Green being suspended for a ton of time.

1229
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,519
Even though he's declined significantly, he's still like a hugely

1230
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:48,039
valuable piece and just someone who's minutes historically coincide with

1231
00:56:48,199 --> 00:56:52,480
like successful stretches. Klay Thompson was awful. Andrew Wiggins was

1232
00:56:52,559 --> 00:56:57,280
like basically unplayable. So if you I wouldn't put any stock,

1233
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,400
Like if you think you know what version of Andrew

1234
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,800
Wiggins has shown up this year, like congratulations, there's one

1235
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,280
of you, Like I just I could not possibly guess.

1236
00:57:05,599 --> 00:57:08,119
It's hard for me to imagine he'll be worse. So

1237
00:57:08,679 --> 00:57:10,800
you combine the like how much worse could it get?

1238
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,039
With I do think Kaminga, Pajemski, even Trace Jackson Davis,

1239
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,360
the latter two having much lower floors like they should

1240
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,000
be a little better. Kaminga was getting jerked around in

1241
00:57:21,039 --> 00:57:23,480
the rotation until he basically said like, I don't my

1242
00:57:23,559 --> 00:57:25,519
coach doesn't believe in me in the media, and then

1243
00:57:25,719 --> 00:57:28,360
started to play more and was really good. I think

1244
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,000
the free agent editions insulate them a little bit in

1245
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:33,639
the event that, you know, Pajemskier or any of the

1246
00:57:33,639 --> 00:57:38,440
young guys don't really pop. So I think you put

1247
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,639
all that together and combine it with the most important fact,

1248
00:57:41,639 --> 00:57:44,559
which is they're not going to get Lauri Markinen. But

1249
00:57:44,679 --> 00:57:48,440
they're pretty clearly interested in making a big trade that

1250
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:54,000
adds a major improvement, right, So whoever that ends up being,

1251
00:57:54,119 --> 00:57:56,440
I just think their willingness to do that, their interest

1252
00:57:56,519 --> 00:58:00,320
in it, suggests that it's more likely they get better

1253
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,239
in a win now sense than not so. And forty

1254
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,280
six is in a ton of wins, So I don't

1255
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,039
I'm not gonna say they're gonna win fifty five or

1256
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:09,039
even fifty. I just think they'll be a little bit

1257
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:12,000
better for for all those reasons. Take that wherever you

1258
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:12,280
want to.

1259
00:58:14,119 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: I could get on board with that, and I will

1260
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,159
defer to you when I think on from a talent perspective,

1261
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,800
they look better. I'm still just like they got. I

1262
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,800
know that you'll get well. You should get more games

1263
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,480
from Draymond and POD's and Kamingo will be better. You

1264
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:27,599
had seventy four games.

1265
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 2: Out of Steph last year. The best counter is that

1266
00:58:31,239 --> 00:58:31,639
you may not.

1267
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: He may not be that guy, and I would argue

1268
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,679
that you're probably less equipped to be good on offense

1269
00:58:39,039 --> 00:58:42,519
independent of Steph now that Chris Paul is gone. Just

1270
00:58:42,599 --> 00:58:44,719
like the playmaker, like d Anthony Mellon is like okay,

1271
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,119
and you have Kyle Anderson, But what's up with Danthony

1272
00:58:47,159 --> 00:58:49,320
Meltain's back. He's not a fantastic passer. He's gotten a

1273
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:52,519
little bit better at the live ribble stuff. Kyle Anderson, Yeah,

1274
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:55,360
good playmaker, but not going to stretch the floor for you.

1275
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,280
And can you play him in Draymond Green At the

1276
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,480
same time, I guess if Raymond is your five, that's

1277
00:58:59,519 --> 00:59:02,079
something you could explore. The Andrew Wiggins of it all.

1278
00:59:02,159 --> 00:59:04,559
He might be more available, But what version of him

1279
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:07,360
are you gonna get? I have some concerns with like

1280
00:59:07,519 --> 00:59:10,679
not I'm probably less concerned than consensus about what's going

1281
00:59:10,719 --> 00:59:14,239
on at the center position for them, because Draymond might

1282
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,239
Draymond just might be better off suited like playing more

1283
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,199
five overall at this point in his career. Cavan Luini

1284
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:21,599
was not good last year. Though you do have tray

1285
00:59:21,679 --> 00:59:23,840
Jackson Davis, so you think he's gonna get better. You

1286
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,840
have that going for you. I actually really like the

1287
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:28,920
Lindy Waters acquisition. I think people are gonna make fun

1288
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,679
of me, but like Lindy Waters is just like, if

1289
00:59:31,719 --> 00:59:34,880
you want more defense while also preserving the motion shooting element,

1290
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,760
you could play him over Buddy Heald and me specifically,

1291
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,239
I won't get mad. I know that's not what they're

1292
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,440
gonna do, but I won't get mad. And then I'm

1293
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,760
hopeful Moses Moody gets more minutes because I think that

1294
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,039
that's someone who's ready to contribute now and has been

1295
00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:50,400
ready for a while. So I lean towards better as well.

1296
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:51,880
But we're getting to a point where it's like there's

1297
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,119
only so many wins that can go around in the

1298
00:59:54,159 --> 00:59:57,480
Western Conference, and they're in that like that tier with

1299
00:59:57,519 --> 00:59:59,840
the Kings, where like forty six is like it feels

1300
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,559
like the same. It would almost make more sense just

1301
01:00:02,599 --> 01:00:04,559
because Stephan and Raymond are also just getting older So

1302
01:00:04,639 --> 01:00:07,880
let's say there Steph's as available and Draymond is more

1303
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,320
available available. Are they as good as they were last season?

1304
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,000
And the question is, I don't know. So I do

1305
01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:16,119
feel like there's there's wiggle room to think worse here,

1306
01:00:16,199 --> 01:00:19,599
but I the talent overall, the talent on this roster

1307
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,239
is better, I think than it was last season.

1308
01:00:22,519 --> 01:00:24,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you hit on it. The way I

1309
01:00:24,639 --> 01:00:26,639
would frame it is that, like Steph Curry is not

1310
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,079
a top five player anymore, but I do think you

1311
01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:31,119
could make the case that in terms of like importance

1312
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:33,159
to his team or like how much his team lives

1313
01:00:33,199 --> 01:00:36,119
and dies with him, he's a top five guy. Like

1314
01:00:36,159 --> 01:00:38,519
there's Jokic, there's I don't even even know if you

1315
01:00:38,559 --> 01:00:41,400
put Giannis there because they the Bucks still have Dame right, like,

1316
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:43,679
and if you Luca gets hurt, Kyrie Irving can run,

1317
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,840
like if Steph is hurt and not playing, like there's

1318
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,440
just there is no offense here, Like there's no functional offense.

1319
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,480
So the bottom falls out to like an insane degree

1320
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:57,360
if he's not healthy and he's going into his age

1321
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,599
thirty six season, so like you should not assume health

1322
01:01:00,719 --> 01:01:01,400
at that point.

1323
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,079
Speaker 1: Is there a chance though, that Pods gets there as

1324
01:01:05,239 --> 01:01:07,599
just like in this defless minutes because I think the

1325
01:01:07,719 --> 01:01:09,880
more I've watched Pods and after Joe Laca made those

1326
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,599
comments about him being a future All Star, which I

1327
01:01:12,599 --> 01:01:14,599
wouldn't predict, but I went back and I was watching

1328
01:01:14,599 --> 01:01:16,199
a lot of PODS and I'm like, I feel like

1329
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:18,840
there might just be more offensive creation for both himself

1330
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,719
and others than we're just assuming. Yeah, at this point,

1331
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,000
like he he shot like forty percent or something on

1332
01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:26,239
step back threes last year and took a good amount

1333
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:26,519
of him.

1334
01:01:27,119 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 2: I think I think certainly he's someone that makes other

1335
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,639
players better. I think that was apparent like from the

1336
01:01:32,719 --> 01:01:35,519
jump last year. I need to see a lot more

1337
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,239
and a few different things from him as an individual

1338
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,199
shot creator, like for himself before I buy him being

1339
01:01:42,239 --> 01:01:45,719
anything more than like adequate at that just because the

1340
01:01:46,159 --> 01:01:48,400
size the types of shots he's able to generate tend

1341
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,239
to be really hard for him. Yeah, So like, I

1342
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,039
don't it's possible. I don't see the All Star ceiling.

1343
01:01:54,119 --> 01:01:55,840
I think he's going to be a really good player

1344
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,920
for a long time. But but like he would, he's

1345
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,079
the guy that you would site even more so than

1346
01:02:01,159 --> 01:02:04,480
kaminga who I think in the ideal version, certainly in

1347
01:02:04,559 --> 01:02:07,039
his mind he is a I'm like Kawhi Leonard on

1348
01:02:07,119 --> 01:02:09,599
the ball, like that's that's my role. I don't think

1349
01:02:09,639 --> 01:02:11,199
the Warriors see him that way. I don't think anyone

1350
01:02:11,239 --> 01:02:14,239
should see him that way. So like that's not the

1351
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,920
route I see as like, Okay, if Steph is seriously

1352
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,480
diminished or hurt, Kaminga is gonna run. That's not I

1353
01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:22,320
don't think that's realistic. Pa Jemski is someone who could

1354
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,880
like hold the fort down. But I just think teams

1355
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,159
will say, you got to score on us to a

1356
01:02:28,199 --> 01:02:30,480
player like him, and that's going to be like tough sliding.

1357
01:02:31,159 --> 01:02:33,679
Speaker 1: Are you very quickly when you're saying better, are you

1358
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:37,760
caking in the assumption or a prediction that they're going

1359
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,000
to make some type of a trade.

1360
01:02:39,719 --> 01:02:42,239
Speaker 2: I think I don't know if i'd phrase it quite

1361
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,480
that way. I think I am. I am factoring in

1362
01:02:46,719 --> 01:02:50,039
it's for them, it seems more likely than for all

1363
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,800
like a lot of teams that because they've already shown

1364
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,519
like a willingness to go pretty far down that road

1365
01:02:55,599 --> 01:02:57,280
with marking in and they were in on Paul George

1366
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,320
to remember, so like they're clearly they're clearly like not

1367
01:03:01,559 --> 01:03:03,960
totally comfortable with the idea of, well, just the young

1368
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,840
guys will be better and we'll be fine. Like so,

1369
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,079
I don't know if i'd say it's definitely gonna happen,

1370
01:03:08,119 --> 01:03:10,119
but it's much more likely for them than what like

1371
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,920
twenty five other teams probably, So I think you got

1372
01:03:13,039 --> 01:03:16,880
to include that in your thinking. My turn here, let's go.

1373
01:03:17,159 --> 01:03:19,360
So don't want to pick anybody right next to them. Okay,

1374
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,960
this this spot's a little lonely over here, let's do

1375
01:03:22,679 --> 01:03:23,599
the Dallas Mavericks.

1376
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: Do you think they're upset that they didn't get to

1377
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:30,000
go first? Like always when we do, you know, go

1378
01:03:30,119 --> 01:03:32,719
Harrison just in his office in the fetal position, balling

1379
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:33,320
his eyes out.

1380
01:03:33,599 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 2: They've had to wait for too long. So the fifty

1381
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,400
win Dallas Mavericks are not really a real thing because

1382
01:03:41,639 --> 01:03:45,559
that factors in what they were before they remade the roster.

1383
01:03:46,519 --> 01:03:49,039
They closed with a twelve and three record. I don't

1384
01:03:49,039 --> 01:03:51,159
know if you remember this dand they made something called

1385
01:03:51,199 --> 01:03:55,280
the NBA Finals, And so I don't view them as

1386
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,280
a fifty win team as like a baseline. I think

1387
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,679
they're better than that. And so I just as starting point,

1388
01:04:00,679 --> 01:04:03,199
it's like, well, we should be talking about them as

1389
01:04:03,239 --> 01:04:05,840
if they were a fifty four win team or something,

1390
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,880
you know, something higher than that. So from that sense,

1391
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:12,000
it's just like, well, the questions need to be how

1392
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:14,679
much better does Derek Lively get? Is this the year

1393
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,400
Luca's in shape? And like really cares because if it is,

1394
01:04:17,519 --> 01:04:19,880
then we're talking sixty wins or whatever. Like it just

1395
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,719
that's the thing hanging out there of like there's another

1396
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,639
level for Dallas and it's if Luca like remakes his body,

1397
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,519
not banking on it, that's possibility. And then like just

1398
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,440
I think maybe we differed a little bit on this,

1399
01:04:32,559 --> 01:04:35,159
so maybe you could take it after this is the

1400
01:04:35,239 --> 01:04:39,440
trade off of Derek Jones Junior basically instead of him

1401
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,360
Klay Thompson, Nausey Marshall. Is that a Is that an

1402
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:47,960
addition or a subtraction? Go ahead. I'm saying they're gonna

1403
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,119
be better. I'm just not totally sure on that last point,

1404
01:04:50,159 --> 01:04:52,079
and I know you have some thoughts on it.

1405
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,639
Speaker 1: I'm pretty bullish on what they did this offseason because

1406
01:04:56,159 --> 01:04:57,679
I think you can make the case that Klay Thompson

1407
01:04:57,679 --> 01:05:01,280
plus Nauji Marshall is just better than Derek Jones. I

1408
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,960
mean in a vacuum, yes, but for when you're measuring fit,

1409
01:05:04,199 --> 01:05:05,960
I think they're still a case. But I think people

1410
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,159
have overlooked that they also did is in the process

1411
01:05:08,199 --> 01:05:10,280
of getting off Tim Hardaway Junior, is they brought it

1412
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:12,679
in Quenton Grimes, and so that is someone who can

1413
01:05:12,719 --> 01:05:16,039
absolutely defend the point of attack if he's healthy and

1414
01:05:16,199 --> 01:05:18,400
so like, I don't think they're gonna feel the absence

1415
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,679
of Derek Jones Junior quite as much as people think

1416
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,679
it might make them have more of an offensive leaning identity,

1417
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:27,039
particularly in closing time if we assume that it's going

1418
01:05:27,079 --> 01:05:30,199
to be Klay Thompson plus PJ. Washington, Luca Kyrie and

1419
01:05:30,239 --> 01:05:32,639
then a big sure if you're not gonna give a

1420
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:37,000
chance to Nausey Marshall or Dante ExHAM or Quentin Grimes

1421
01:05:37,079 --> 01:05:39,440
to get those minutes. I understand maybe you're concern there,

1422
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:41,639
but I think it's okay to lean into your offensive

1423
01:05:41,639 --> 01:05:44,039
identity when you have Luca and Kyrie, and I think

1424
01:05:44,079 --> 01:05:45,960
the stuff they're gonna be able to run with Clay

1425
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,079
just flying off screens, and you said it with the

1426
01:05:48,119 --> 01:05:50,880
Warriors that Clay was bad last year. I think defensively,

1427
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,360
he was bad, and honestly, I wouldn't even say he's bad,

1428
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:53,800
he's old.

1429
01:05:54,119 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 2: His shot selection was trash, But which is what you're

1430
01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:58,280
getting to.

1431
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,199
Speaker 1: Right, And I think it's easier for him to accept

1432
01:06:01,639 --> 01:06:05,360
a different role, or to live in a more confining

1433
01:06:05,519 --> 01:06:08,960
role outside the Golden State bubble where he has all

1434
01:06:09,039 --> 01:06:11,000
that history. And it's not just he has that history,

1435
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:13,639
but the two other guys he came up with, Draymond

1436
01:06:13,679 --> 01:06:16,519
Green and Steph Curry, they are still just mission critical

1437
01:06:16,599 --> 01:06:19,039
and kind of playing their same roles for the most part,

1438
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:22,000
And so it's easier for him to make that at

1439
01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:25,400
functional adaptation in Dallas, and he will just like And

1440
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,760
also I think what makes it easier is Kyrie Irving

1441
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,239
and Luca Doncics are just inherently more ball dominant than

1442
01:06:30,239 --> 01:06:32,400
anyone on Golden State last year except for maybe Chris

1443
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,239
Paul in his heyday anyway, so I'm pretty bullish on

1444
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,239
their offseason. I think it's maybe it's because so much

1445
01:06:38,239 --> 01:06:40,440
of it happened early on, it feels like it's flown

1446
01:06:40,519 --> 01:06:43,719
under the radar. I do think you'll miss having Derek

1447
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,079
Jones Junior's athleticism and just like Hey you just go

1448
01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:48,159
defend so and so, like you can move him up

1449
01:06:48,199 --> 01:06:50,039
the positional spectrum in a way that you probably can't

1450
01:06:50,079 --> 01:06:52,880
with Naji Marshall or Quentin Grimes, where they're at two

1451
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,519
different ends of the spectrum at the same time. They

1452
01:06:55,639 --> 01:06:57,920
just have the ability to be massive. KLAYT Thompson is

1453
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,920
six ' seven and you have Washington, you have a

1454
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,880
big Luka Dantic is huge in the lineups without Kyrie Irving.

1455
01:07:05,079 --> 01:07:07,639
If you want to play Clay and Naji Marshall with Luca, PJ.

1456
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:10,400
Washington and Derek, you're just huge. Yeah, and so I

1457
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,840
think this team is I wouldn't go sixty wins. I

1458
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:15,639
like never predict a team to win sixty wins, so

1459
01:07:15,719 --> 01:07:18,239
you can be better about doing that. But this feels

1460
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,199
like fifty five plus win territory to me. So even

1461
01:07:21,239 --> 01:07:23,199
if you're using that fifty four wins as a baseline,

1462
01:07:23,559 --> 01:07:25,679
it's harder to answer this way, but I probably still

1463
01:07:25,719 --> 01:07:26,119
go better.

1464
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:29,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think that's right. I think mid fifties

1465
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,360
feels I don't know if it's conservative, but it feels

1466
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:34,639
like that's a totally defensible number and we just need

1467
01:07:34,719 --> 01:07:37,159
to get over fifty. So I think easy enough, I

1468
01:07:37,199 --> 01:07:37,519
think for.

1469
01:07:37,559 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 1: The MAVs, I'm gonna do something here and force you

1470
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:42,519
to have to be the one that completes a row.

1471
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:44,639
So I'm gonna take a team from the second row.

1472
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,159
I am going to go with my Oklahoma City Thunder

1473
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,440
because they're so often ascribed to me, and you know what,

1474
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:55,039
I will gladly take a point take that ownership. They

1475
01:07:55,159 --> 01:07:57,800
won Grant fifty seven games last year. Did you know

1476
01:07:57,880 --> 01:07:59,719
that that's quite That's quite a lot of basketball games.

1477
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,800
I have them as better. I just you can't. You

1478
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:06,400
can tell me that they went seventy four and eight

1479
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:10,519
and I'd be like, I believe it. Their roster is

1480
01:08:10,719 --> 01:08:14,880
so deep and so talented, and I think they addressed

1481
01:08:15,559 --> 01:08:18,840
two of what I considered their three biggest needs, where

1482
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,000
it's can we get someone into the closing lineup that

1483
01:08:21,039 --> 01:08:22,399
you know is going to be more of a reliable

1484
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,640
shooter than Loudor or Josh Giddy. Incomes Alex Caruso, and

1485
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,159
you sacrifice nothing defensively, even if you're not playing Loudort.

1486
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:32,399
Basically Loudort is stronger for sure, But now if he's

1487
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:35,319
just replacing the Josh Giddy minutes, my god, you get

1488
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:38,359
Isaiah Hartenstein, who can play next to Chet Holmgren is

1489
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,720
gonna give you a presence on the glass. He has

1490
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,840
some dynamism to him on the offensive end. In terms

1491
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:44,720
of a passer, I think they'll actually gonna let him

1492
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:48,359
shoot threes. Tom Thibodeau would not in New York And

1493
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,000
I look at this rush and I go, where's the

1494
01:08:50,199 --> 01:08:52,159
Like they just have Aaron Wiggins and Isaiah joe Er

1495
01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:54,600
floating around like their seventh and eighth most important players,

1496
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:56,439
and they would certainly be more than that to any

1497
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:00,039
other team. I like, what is the theory of a

1498
01:09:00,159 --> 01:09:01,920
thunder being worse? And I think you could point to

1499
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,640
and say they still kind of need the other shot

1500
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,640
creator because Jalen Williams wasn't there during the postseason, and

1501
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:10,319
so it's all on Shay at points. Guess what. We

1502
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:12,079
talk a lot about players getting better. You know who's

1503
01:09:12,079 --> 01:09:15,319
gonna continue to get better, Jaleen Williams. That's not you

1504
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,439
saying this, that's me. So I feel like it means

1505
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:20,920
something now, Yeah, because.

1506
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 2: I would say, no matter what, you could be dead

1507
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:23,920
and I'd be like, I really like his outlook.

1508
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,680
Speaker 1: Next year, You're you're more You're more casual about throwing

1509
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,119
around the superstar designation to him, but you're not wrong.

1510
01:09:31,319 --> 01:09:33,279
It's just you say it more often. That's the other like,

1511
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,159
that's absolutely his ceiling. So I'm in lockstep with you

1512
01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:38,359
on him. And it's also just I'm open to the

1513
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,159
idea that Aeron Wiggins is gonna continue to get better.

1514
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,319
And I also think we've mentioned this already. A big

1515
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:47,000
part of just going from Josh getting to Alex Caruso

1516
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,359
is in the one big minutes, your floor should just

1517
01:09:50,399 --> 01:09:52,680
be completely spaced out now in terms of, yeah, Josh

1518
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,920
Getty's based the floor, but defenses didn't care. They're gonna

1519
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,119
care when Alex Caruso would just shot over forty percent

1520
01:09:58,159 --> 01:10:01,199
from three on pretty good volume is out there, They're

1521
01:10:01,279 --> 01:10:03,199
gonna be able to explore more of the on ball

1522
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,960
dynamic from chet Holmgrin And even if you don't think

1523
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,680
he's gonna develop all these different counters, you're just gonna

1524
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:11,079
drive in a lane and he has enough of a

1525
01:10:11,159 --> 01:10:13,479
handle to make things happen there, whether it's kickouts or

1526
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,600
just get finishing at the basket from mid range like

1527
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:21,359
that stuff that's within his arsenal. This is like I'm

1528
01:10:21,399 --> 01:10:23,680
gonna tell you, right, now and things could change. I

1529
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:25,960
have kicked around the idea of just picking Oklahoma City

1530
01:10:26,039 --> 01:10:28,319
to win the title, and I think because I disrespect,

1531
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:30,479
I didn't disrespect. I ended up being way too low

1532
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:33,359
on the Celtics last year. I'm reticent to pick anyone

1533
01:10:33,399 --> 01:10:36,439
other than them. But this team is right there, and

1534
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,359
it just you don't get to use the excuse well

1535
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:40,960
they like it has they haven't played in the moment yet.

1536
01:10:41,039 --> 01:10:43,840
They just did in the playoffs and yeah they're the Mavericks.

1537
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:47,399
Kind of gave them me all what four at one point,

1538
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,920
but now they've gone through it, and their player, like

1539
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:51,600
Joe Williams specifically, I think, is a player who is

1540
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,000
gonna better, like he might have been the single player

1541
01:10:54,279 --> 01:10:57,600
on that roster who benefited most from just that postseason crucible.

1542
01:10:58,199 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 2: Yep, uh no, I I think trying to think of

1543
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,680
like something a different angle to take here. I would,

1544
01:11:05,039 --> 01:11:07,920
you know, I would focus on the defense, I think,

1545
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,520
which was really good last year. They were fourth, right so,

1546
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:13,680
but by in terms of relatively that was their worst

1547
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:15,840
end of the floors. They were third on offense. Uh.

1548
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:20,319
Can you just think about being an opposing offensive player

1549
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,880
and seeing a lineup However, you want to do. Whoever

1550
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,239
the fifth guy is. It could be Case and Wallace,

1551
01:11:26,279 --> 01:11:31,439
it could be Jada, it could be Hertenstein. You got Caruso, Dort, Sga,

1552
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:36,039
and chet Holmgren on the floor. Defensively, like this this

1553
01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:38,560
team is going to be the best defense in the league.

1554
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:40,479
I feel really confident. I don't know if they're gonna

1555
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:42,920
win the most games because Boston exists, but I just

1556
01:11:43,039 --> 01:11:46,880
think the personnel is so good Defensively. They have like

1557
01:11:47,279 --> 01:11:49,359
I don't know where you rank them, but between Caruso

1558
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:53,479
and Dort, like they're you know, immediate mentions and like

1559
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:55,640
who's the guy that sucks the most to be guarded

1560
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:57,479
by on the perimeter, Like they got two of them,

1561
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,640
And I think chet Holmgren is like he's kind of

1562
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:03,960
taking on my new Jada like mantle where it's like

1563
01:12:04,079 --> 01:12:08,159
I just think I think he's gonna join Williams as

1564
01:12:08,239 --> 01:12:11,039
someone that's like if maybe both of them won't be

1565
01:12:11,119 --> 01:12:13,000
All Stars, but they will both be guys that we

1566
01:12:13,119 --> 01:12:15,600
talk about a lot when we're picking, you know, ahead

1567
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:20,000
of time, and I just I think even if they

1568
01:12:20,279 --> 01:12:22,439
here's the other thing, even if they hadn't gone out

1569
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:25,199
and gone Cruiso and Hartenstein. I would still pick them

1570
01:12:25,239 --> 01:12:27,000
to win more games. So how do you pick them

1571
01:12:27,039 --> 01:12:30,000
to win fewer when they went and got too phenomenal

1572
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:32,279
additions to the roster, you picked.

1573
01:12:32,079 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 1: Them to win fewer because the numbers just intimidating. I

1574
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:37,159
don't think I was here for fans of teams, and

1575
01:12:37,239 --> 01:12:39,199
this isn't an insult. I hate that. I feel the

1576
01:12:39,239 --> 01:12:41,279
need to clarify this all the time, but it's not

1577
01:12:41,319 --> 01:12:43,079
an insult. But fans the team are like, yeah, they're

1578
01:12:43,079 --> 01:12:45,279
gonna win sixty three or something. It's just harder for

1579
01:12:45,399 --> 01:12:48,159
me zoomed out to the sixty win like that's what

1580
01:12:48,239 --> 01:12:50,199
they They don't need to get there to be better,

1581
01:12:50,279 --> 01:12:52,760
but they're fifty seven. Like being better looks like getting

1582
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,720
into sixty win territory. And that number has always been

1583
01:12:56,159 --> 01:12:58,800
inherently intimidating for me, just like to predict that a

1584
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:00,760
team will win it. But this is if you have

1585
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,800
to predict one team in the regular season win that

1586
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,439
many games, this is the team. Because Boston is dealing

1587
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,960
with the Porzingis injury until like twenty twenty five probably.

1588
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 2: And they don't Boston now knows that we don't need

1589
01:13:12,079 --> 01:13:14,560
to do that again, like they should be so confident

1590
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:16,399
that they can keep the foot off for a little while.

1591
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:18,239
Speaker 1: Be fair, the Thunder don't need to do that. But

1592
01:13:18,359 --> 01:13:21,359
they have like two good rotations in one, Like they

1593
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:23,279
just have like ten guys that would be like, you know,

1594
01:13:23,399 --> 01:13:25,479
they're they're six through ten guys might be the top

1595
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,920
five on certain teams basically, and they're younger, and it's.

1596
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:31,119
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, they you know, they're probably stinging a little

1597
01:13:31,159 --> 01:13:33,119
bit from how they went out, and it's just like

1598
01:13:33,279 --> 01:13:35,520
it's one of those things, you know, how do you

1599
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:39,880
factor in like mentality or like motivation to win total?

1600
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:42,640
Isn't it just easier to imagine the Thunder being like

1601
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:45,159
fuck it, like we are. We're going for like we

1602
01:13:45,279 --> 01:13:47,600
are dead serious about this. We have so much to prove.

1603
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:50,439
We're all young, like we can run forever. Like it's

1604
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,359
just they're well coached. We haven't even talked about that,

1605
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,079
Like Mark Deegnold is gonna organize these guys in the

1606
01:13:55,159 --> 01:13:55,720
correct way.

1607
01:13:56,039 --> 01:13:59,079
Speaker 1: It's not like you and this is not Maybe em

1608
01:13:59,239 --> 01:14:00,479
do will be fine with it, but when you're talking

1609
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:02,920
about having too many guys to play, like Oklahoma City

1610
01:14:03,079 --> 01:14:05,680
in theory is a team like that, But Mark Dagnell,

1611
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:07,439
Like that's just been the status quo since he came

1612
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:09,000
into Oklahoma City. Is Hey, you need to figure out

1613
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:10,720
a way to fit twenty guys into this ten man

1614
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,079
rot twelve man rotation, because like when you look at

1615
01:14:13,119 --> 01:14:15,760
their their top ten, like we didn't mention Jay will

1616
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,800
or Kenridge Williams. They're like, and you include Aaron Wiggins.

1617
01:14:20,159 --> 01:14:22,479
I think you can say comfortably there are ten to

1618
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:25,199
eleven guys that would just get minutes on every single

1619
01:14:25,279 --> 01:14:27,880
other team in the NBA. If you feel weird about

1620
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,119
Jay Will, okay, fine, but then there are ten guys.

1621
01:14:30,119 --> 01:14:31,960
And also, by the way, they seem pretty invested in

1622
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,039
Dylan Jones. They'd move up to get him. They'll probably

1623
01:14:35,039 --> 01:14:37,560
find developmental minutes for him with the big club too.

1624
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,760
So I just and you kind of you didn't say

1625
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:42,520
it specifically, you laid it out with the lineup. They

1626
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:44,960
just have four dudes. And depending on how you feel

1627
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:47,600
about off ball disruption with SGA, they have five dudes

1628
01:14:48,039 --> 01:14:48,840
that could just make.

1629
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 2: All defense yeah there, well there, And that's the other

1630
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,680
thing they're less subject to, like the vagaries of oh

1631
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,760
it's an off shooting night. They could just win games defensively,

1632
01:14:57,920 --> 01:14:59,920
that's gonna be the same all the time. Like that,

1633
01:15:00,039 --> 01:15:02,720
that's not gonna fluctuate. They just have the guys that

1634
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,640
guard the whole. Yeah. I don't know what else we

1635
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:07,520
could say. We're getting over a little bit.

1636
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:10,119
Speaker 1: But one thing that might be interesting. I'm not manifesting it,

1637
01:15:10,359 --> 01:15:12,600
but if if they are a team as good as

1638
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:14,239
they are, and you can say this about a lot

1639
01:15:14,239 --> 01:15:17,239
of teams, do you feel comfortable like if Shane needs

1640
01:15:17,279 --> 01:15:20,199
to miss some time, they feel more at risk than

1641
01:15:20,239 --> 01:15:22,640
if Jason Tatum needs to miss some time in Boston.

1642
01:15:24,199 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, with Shae specifically, I guess just because what we

1643
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,640
saw is that other than him in the playoffs, like,

1644
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:33,600
there's not someone that can reliably get shots. I don't

1645
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,760
know if i'd fore clothes on either Home Grin or

1646
01:15:36,119 --> 01:15:39,680
Jada like improving enough to where that's not fatal. But yeah,

1647
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,039
I think you're right about that. Like the Celtics can

1648
01:15:42,359 --> 01:15:44,119
I mean, the numbers bore it out last year, right,

1649
01:15:44,159 --> 01:15:47,319
the Celtics were still awesome without Tatum. I don't know, Sgayah.

1650
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:49,239
Actually I don't remember what the on off splits were

1651
01:15:49,279 --> 01:15:51,520
for USGA. I just remember they weren't as good as Yokiches,

1652
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:52,279
but nobody's are.

1653
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna say that they're probably gonna win sixty

1654
01:15:56,479 --> 01:15:58,319
two or more games next season.

1655
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,359
Speaker 2: I there might pick run away with the West, whatever

1656
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:04,399
that means. I think they've you know, they've tied for

1657
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,520
with the Wolves at fifty seven. I just I don't

1658
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:11,479
see anybody else having improved themselves as much as the

1659
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:14,439
Thunder did. Speaking of is it my turn, Let's just

1660
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,079
do the Wolves now, because they also won fifty seven

1661
01:16:17,199 --> 01:16:22,960
last year. If you if you had to, well, maybe

1662
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:26,239
let's start here. If you had to guess if I'm

1663
01:16:26,279 --> 01:16:28,039
gonna say better or worse, what would you guess?

1664
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:29,680
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna say worse.

1665
01:16:30,279 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 2: You're wrong, I'm saying better. Uh. And it's it's a

1666
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:36,159
hard one and it's not as like analytical as I

1667
01:16:36,239 --> 01:16:39,319
think we like to try to be. And it's mostly

1668
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:41,840
just Anthony Edwards is that guy, and I don't think

1669
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:44,840
he's anywhere near topped out. And I don't think that

1670
01:16:45,039 --> 01:16:48,279
there's a reason to believe the defense will be meaningfully worse.

1671
01:16:48,319 --> 01:16:49,720
I know, I just said the Thunder will have the

1672
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:51,720
best defense. I think Minnesota is gonna be right there.

1673
01:16:52,359 --> 01:16:55,319
And if you combine what might be the second third whatever,

1674
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:57,720
maybe the best if I you know, have to backtrack

1675
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:01,319
a little on okay, see defense with I just think

1676
01:17:01,319 --> 01:17:04,920
Anthony Edwards is gonna be better, which is a high

1677
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,560
bar to clear. I think they're gonna be motivated too

1678
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,159
by especially Edwards, I think is kind of a chip

1679
01:17:10,239 --> 01:17:13,199
on the shoulder guy like thinks he's the greatest, justifiably

1680
01:17:13,319 --> 01:17:16,920
sometimes is gonna want to take another step forward in

1681
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:20,359
terms of how deep this team goes. The downside is

1682
01:17:20,399 --> 01:17:23,960
a calmly injury is still a problem, even with Dillingham

1683
01:17:24,079 --> 01:17:26,359
there to I mean, I just can't count on a rookie,

1684
01:17:26,399 --> 01:17:28,239
even if he seems tailor made for the role he's

1685
01:17:28,239 --> 01:17:31,720
gonna play, to really be a meaningful guy. It's just

1686
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,199
ant in the defense. I mean, so I'd open it

1687
01:17:34,319 --> 01:17:37,000
up to you to go with any other angles, and

1688
01:17:37,079 --> 01:17:39,479
I'm open to like grant, you're stupid, they're gonna be worse.

1689
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:41,640
They were way too good last year. You have to

1690
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:43,880
pick worse. That's a good argument too, But I just

1691
01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:45,279
it's a it's a defense.

1692
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 1: I would probably lean worse just for all for what

1693
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:51,199
you just said. And I think, look, Rudy Gobar thirty

1694
01:17:51,239 --> 01:17:54,000
two had finger surgery. We just found that out today.

1695
01:17:55,079 --> 01:17:56,680
Does that impact him at all or is he is.

1696
01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 2: He gotten nine more?

1697
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,520
Speaker 1: That's fine, that's fine. Mike Comley's older. In addition to

1698
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:03,279
the injury risk, do we see kind of him take

1699
01:18:03,279 --> 01:18:05,800
a step back? And the other thing is you mentioned

1700
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,680
him Rob Dillingham. Yeah, he seems perfect for what they

1701
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:12,600
need and a lot of people have made much ado

1702
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:14,479
about his side. He's six y three. He's not like

1703
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,880
we've seen six three players before be just fine. And

1704
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:20,560
this team, I think offenses will attack him, but they're

1705
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:23,119
just built to insulate him. I'm more concerned with the

1706
01:18:23,199 --> 01:18:26,920
idea of for what you gave up. He's entering training

1707
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:29,760
camp or the season as your backup point guard. And

1708
01:18:30,199 --> 01:18:34,199
to give a rookie higher stakes minutes on a could

1709
01:18:34,239 --> 01:18:36,000
be or on a not a could be but a

1710
01:18:36,119 --> 01:18:40,479
will be championship contender. That's always thorny and you look

1711
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:42,520
at him and I think in summer league we might

1712
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:44,920
see adjustments, of course when he gets to the regular season,

1713
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,199
but the theory of him makes so much sense. Someone

1714
01:18:47,199 --> 01:18:49,039
who will get off the ball quickly, he will make shot,

1715
01:18:49,079 --> 01:18:51,359
he'll create his own jumpers, he'll make jumpers off a catch,

1716
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:53,560
but like, he's not going to get all the way

1717
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,359
through to the paint against NBA length and size, And

1718
01:18:56,439 --> 01:18:59,840
if you view the like him as someone that you

1719
01:19:00,039 --> 01:19:02,079
want to play during the non ant minutes, I think

1720
01:19:02,119 --> 01:19:04,279
what's gonna wind up happening is he's gonna face a

1721
01:19:04,319 --> 01:19:06,520
lot of blitzes, a lot of doubles, and then they're

1722
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,079
just gonna force other players on the court at that

1723
01:19:09,159 --> 01:19:12,119
point to beat them. And who if Ant's not on

1724
01:19:12,199 --> 01:19:14,479
the court, who is that? And like, yes, the Timberls

1725
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:16,680
ran into those same problems without Anthy Edwards last year.

1726
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,880
I'm just not sure, Like long term, maybe Rob Dillingham

1727
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:22,800
addresses what's their biggest need, But they're in this weird

1728
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:25,199
territory and I think it'll be easier to button up

1729
01:19:25,239 --> 01:19:26,840
once you get to the playoffs. But for the regular

1730
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:30,479
seasons specifically, I might frame it this way. I think

1731
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,119
the Wolves will probably be a bigger threat to win

1732
01:19:33,239 --> 01:19:36,479
it all next year, but they're going to win fewer

1733
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:38,239
regular season games. And part of that might just be

1734
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:41,479
do they not care about winning as many regular season

1735
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:46,000
games as they did last season? But to your counterpoint,

1736
01:19:46,039 --> 01:19:47,840
you know we didn't mention Jane McDaniels. He can't have

1737
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:49,640
a worse offensive season than he did during there. He

1738
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,119
came alive during the playoffs, but he's probably not gonna

1739
01:19:52,159 --> 01:19:55,319
get worse. So and you mean, if Kat doesn't suffer

1740
01:19:55,319 --> 01:19:56,760
an injury towards the end of the year, you have

1741
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,960
to integrate him. I think that this team's championship stocked.

1742
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,079
I would say it's pointing upward, but just in terms

1743
01:20:03,079 --> 01:20:05,720
of winning more regular season games, I have a tougher

1744
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:08,600
time of It's possible, don't get me wrong, I just

1745
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:09,800
have a tougher time getting there.

1746
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,760
Speaker 2: I think you've made the better argument. I think I

1747
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:16,119
think I think we gotta go worse. How much of

1748
01:20:16,159 --> 01:20:17,359
a pain in the ass is it for you to

1749
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:21,520
change the graphic that some people listening to this will see.

1750
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,319
Speaker 1: Wow, you need to pump up. We're the most popular

1751
01:20:24,399 --> 01:20:25,359
podcasts in the world.

1752
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:26,439
Speaker 2: I forgot about that.

1753
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:29,399
Speaker 1: It's already been changed. I think that's the right call,

1754
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:31,680
and maybe they'll live to out perform us. This is,

1755
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:33,680
by the way, doing this without looking at over unders

1756
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,119
is I've been trying to steer clear of those people

1757
01:20:36,159 --> 01:20:37,640
are starting to come out with the over under pods.

1758
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:40,319
I have not listened or like really dissected into it.

1759
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:42,119
I'm gonna be fascinate to se where they are over

1760
01:20:42,239 --> 01:20:43,239
under winds up.

1761
01:20:43,359 --> 01:20:45,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should keep this in mind when we do that,

1762
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:49,720
or just because it's always such a different exercise the

1763
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:52,239
over under, because the number is almost every time it's like,

1764
01:20:52,279 --> 01:20:54,479
oh shit, that's exactly how many the wins I thought

1765
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:57,159
they were gonna have. Uh okay, cool, that was the Wolves.

1766
01:20:57,239 --> 01:20:58,880
You got what two teams to.

1767
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 1: Choose for him, Let's go to Jazz. So Larry Marketing

1768
01:21:04,079 --> 01:21:05,600
is gonna be in Utah for all of next year,

1769
01:21:06,359 --> 01:21:08,680
as we predicted. Someone shouted us out. Shout out whoever

1770
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:10,840
shouted us out for predicting that he was gonna sign

1771
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,640
the extension after before all the reporting came out and

1772
01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:14,960
he was going. It just seemed like for him, it

1773
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:17,920
seemed like the logical move. Yeah, where are the Utah

1774
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:20,880
Jazz going is a fair question. But I think even

1775
01:21:21,159 --> 01:21:25,399
with Larry market in, they're gonna be worse. And they

1776
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:29,319
won thirty one games last year. Now, the way they

1777
01:21:29,359 --> 01:21:31,600
get to being worse, I think is you just start

1778
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:33,439
to run out of teams that can be bad in

1779
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:36,680
the West. So even though you have Colin Sexton, even

1780
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,239
though you have Larry Marketen, even though you have John Collins,

1781
01:21:39,279 --> 01:21:41,720
even though you have Jordan Clarkson, even though it's probably

1782
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:44,359
difficult to say we're gonna play all the young dudes

1783
01:21:44,399 --> 01:21:47,239
over some of these guys, it just might not matter.

1784
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:49,239
Like you might not be as bad as you should

1785
01:21:49,239 --> 01:21:51,720
be if you want Cooper Flag. But they they'll win

1786
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:53,640
thirty games instead of thirty one, though, is how I

1787
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:56,920
frame it. They are invested. I don't think the only

1788
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:58,880
way I see them being better is if you re

1789
01:21:59,039 --> 01:22:01,640
signed Larry market with the intentle we're gonna turn around,

1790
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:03,439
or we're maybe gonna try and trade for Brandon Ingram

1791
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:05,920
and get better right away. Because they were involved in

1792
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:08,199
the mchal Bridge's sweepstakes, and if they want to go

1793
01:22:08,319 --> 01:22:11,079
that route, they have the tools to one go that

1794
01:22:11,239 --> 01:22:12,920
route and still just say we're not done. We have

1795
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:16,760
other assets. But I do think that they're gonna end

1796
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:19,520
up maybe it'll be another sort of mid season about face,

1797
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:23,319
prioritizing their draft lottery stock, and I will say, I

1798
01:22:23,359 --> 01:22:25,800
don't know if that's necessarily ideal, because you're gonna be

1799
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,600
caught in this weird limbo again where you're a lottery team.

1800
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:30,680
But you're not a high enough lottery team to believe

1801
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,640
that you're gonna get one of the top picks. That is,

1802
01:22:34,319 --> 01:22:38,199
that's almost it's not immaterial to this conversation, but that's

1803
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:40,560
if you're talking about the Jazz is overarching direction. It's

1804
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:42,720
fair to be concerned about that. But for this I

1805
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:45,359
don't think they're in danger of being Oh man, they're

1806
01:22:45,359 --> 01:22:47,720
a thirty five win team and they need to pull

1807
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:50,520
out the rug again. I think they'll they might need

1808
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:52,319
to shut down guys or play them less once you

1809
01:22:52,399 --> 01:22:55,000
get later in the season, including Larry Marketing. But by

1810
01:22:55,039 --> 01:22:57,319
the way, I don't know if he really wants to

1811
01:22:57,399 --> 01:22:59,399
be there, and you've had the conversation with them, he's

1812
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:02,039
now order. You don't need to worry about ruining his

1813
01:23:02,159 --> 01:23:04,439
trade value or making him unhappy. He's paid, he's on

1814
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:06,600
the books, he can't leave. If you want to shut

1815
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:10,560
him down or tap his minutes or do both throughout

1816
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:12,720
the season, you can just do that. And so now

1817
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:15,239
there's at least clarity now that you know what's happening

1818
01:23:15,279 --> 01:23:17,840
with Larry Marketing, because you can't move him during the season.

1819
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,319
So I think they'll win fewer even if they go

1820
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:23,520
for it. Just because the Western Conference. Again, you look

1821
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,920
at this, we're we're on the board. There's no team

1822
01:23:27,039 --> 01:23:29,560
like the Clippers, in theory might be going to the

1823
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:31,359
season like we're kind of fucked, but they already know,

1824
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:34,560
like their draft assets are headed out the other So

1825
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:38,319
the Blazers are the only team as of right now

1826
01:23:38,359 --> 01:23:40,600
that you look at and say they are intending to

1827
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,199
maximize their draft lottery position. And then I think after that,

1828
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,680
maybe the Spurs enter that conversation. Maybe there's a surprise

1829
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:48,479
team that enters it. But I think it's gonna end

1830
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,640
up being Utah, and it might be out of the

1831
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:54,199
gate in the sense that I'll frame it this way.

1832
01:23:54,319 --> 01:23:56,640
We normally just don't see trades happen early in the season.

1833
01:23:57,199 --> 01:23:59,479
It wouldn't shock me if like Colin Sexton gets moved

1834
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:00,439
in November or something.

1835
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:05,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think the market in it does

1836
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:09,039
clarify some things, but it also wouldn't you love to know.

1837
01:24:09,359 --> 01:24:11,560
And maybe I haven't looked at much of the reporting.

1838
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:13,199
Maybe this is out there. I don't I haven't seen it.

1839
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:17,760
Like certainly there were conversations between marketing and the Jazz

1840
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:21,439
about like, what's this season gonna look like? Because and

1841
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:24,399
I think the main motivation for him signing when he's,

1842
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:26,600
you know, so he can't be traded this year is

1843
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:29,239
because he likes uton doesn't want to be traded. But

1844
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:32,600
was there a conversation of Okay, we want to keep you,

1845
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:37,199
we're gonna be bad like on purpose this year, or

1846
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:41,000
was it if you sign and commit to this, commit

1847
01:24:41,079 --> 01:24:43,600
to us on this new deal, we're gonna, like you said,

1848
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:46,960
turn around and trade guys to get better this year.

1849
01:24:47,359 --> 01:24:50,359
I presumably some version of that conversation happened. I would

1850
01:24:50,399 --> 01:24:53,520
just love to know, like what what was discussed, because

1851
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:55,319
that would give us a real vision into like, Okay,

1852
01:24:55,359 --> 01:24:58,399
what is the direction for this team? I just think

1853
01:24:59,239 --> 01:25:02,560
it really comes to down to, like what's the argument

1854
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:05,600
for them really trying hard to be better? And I

1855
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:08,520
guess it would be that, like if you're talking about

1856
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:11,199
the draft lottery, what is it the bottom four records

1857
01:25:11,239 --> 01:25:14,279
get the fourteen percent chance at the top pick. So like,

1858
01:25:14,359 --> 01:25:16,359
it's not just the West, it's are we gonna be

1859
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:19,520
worse than all? You know, some number? You got to

1860
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:23,399
start thinking about Washington, Detroit, Brooklyn like these it's not

1861
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:25,159
just the West, Like how do we how do we

1862
01:25:25,239 --> 01:25:28,159
assure we're a bottom four record in the league. That's

1863
01:25:28,239 --> 01:25:30,279
too hard. Those other teams are too bad. We have

1864
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:33,119
Larry markin in, like, so we might as well try

1865
01:25:33,159 --> 01:25:37,239
to win thirty four games or something because we like, oh,

1866
01:25:37,279 --> 01:25:39,359
we don't want to have the fifth or sixth worst record.

1867
01:25:40,039 --> 01:25:42,479
Maybe that's I don't know that that makes tons of sense,

1868
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:44,800
but like that's how it would have to be sort

1869
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:46,840
of gamed out for it to make sense for them

1870
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:49,600
to try to hit the over I guess, or win

1871
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,159
more than thirty one. I just kind of agree with you,

1872
01:25:52,399 --> 01:25:55,239
like the wins are just gonna be so much harder

1873
01:25:55,319 --> 01:25:57,279
to come by. They're one of the only two teams

1874
01:25:57,279 --> 01:26:00,600
in the conference that is incentivized to lose. Uh, And

1875
01:26:01,079 --> 01:26:04,720
so I think I think they're worse, But I think

1876
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:07,720
would you agree that they have the capacity to be

1877
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,399
better more so than like Portland does. I guess the

1878
01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:13,319
win totals are different, so it's a hard comparison. But

1879
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:16,439
like marketing in and the vets they have, like they

1880
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:19,079
we've already proved they can kind of mess around and

1881
01:26:19,279 --> 01:26:22,159
like play above five hundred ball for like good chunks

1882
01:26:22,159 --> 01:26:25,239
of the year then twice in a row. I just

1883
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:28,000
I just don't think you can do that three three

1884
01:26:28,079 --> 01:26:30,319
straight seasons and then and then pull the rip chord,

1885
01:26:30,399 --> 01:26:30,560
you know.

1886
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:33,399
Speaker 1: In which is why doesn't it feel like they're a

1887
01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:37,560
classic TV where TBD team in the sense of this

1888
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:40,199
can't be it. It's like they're gonna end up trading

1889
01:26:40,279 --> 01:26:43,359
away players before the off seasons out, or they're gonna

1890
01:26:43,399 --> 01:26:45,800
go out and acquire players that help them win, because

1891
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:48,479
I just can't buy into the fact of you you

1892
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:51,199
mentioned it that they're gonna for a third consecutive season,

1893
01:26:51,319 --> 01:26:53,840
just pull the ripcord. I mentioned it before, saying if

1894
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:55,720
they do it earlier, but like, what is that even

1895
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:57,880
they could make a trade earlier in the like to

1896
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:59,960
start the season if they think that they're if they

1897
01:27:00,039 --> 01:27:02,680
want to be better than expected, but why risk that

1898
01:27:03,199 --> 01:27:06,399
for a third consecutive season. So it's just like I'm

1899
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,000
I honestly think there's a chance they end up being

1900
01:27:09,039 --> 01:27:11,279
better because they decide, Look, we have Larry market In,

1901
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:14,199
We've got all these assets. The Pelicans are willing to

1902
01:27:14,239 --> 01:27:17,439
accept John Collins, Walker Kessler in a dirt cheap first

1903
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,439
round pick, and we're just gonna get Brandon Ingram and

1904
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:22,159
see that. We're like, I'm honestly just open to them

1905
01:27:22,199 --> 01:27:26,279
exploring that path because they can't. This can't be like

1906
01:27:26,359 --> 01:27:28,640
the plan can't be the We're gonna resign Larry Markin,

1907
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:30,640
run it back and we'll kind of figure out like

1908
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:33,319
what to do when we get to December January. Can't

1909
01:27:33,359 --> 01:27:33,960
it can't be.

1910
01:27:34,119 --> 01:27:37,359
Speaker 2: That, And to that point with the thunder kind of

1911
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:40,479
just generally not working this way and also having a

1912
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:44,079
roster that we agree is awesome and basically finished. For

1913
01:27:44,159 --> 01:27:46,399
the most part, Utah is a team that can make

1914
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:49,239
the Godfather. Like, here's fifty seven first round picks for

1915
01:27:49,359 --> 01:27:52,079
the next disgruntled star. Like, we know you probably don't

1916
01:27:52,079 --> 01:27:53,680
want to come to Utah, but we can make the

1917
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:57,039
best offer for you. So like, you know, just pick

1918
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,119
Clarkson and Collins and whatever else for salary match in

1919
01:28:00,159 --> 01:28:02,439
here's a bunch of picks. We can just go get Nique.

1920
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:05,439
Speaker 1: You know what the player is. I'm gonna mention him

1921
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:09,359
for so many teams know who the player is. Lamela,

1922
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:12,960
that's the player. Yeah, under contract. He's young. I know

1923
01:28:13,079 --> 01:28:14,920
market is not super young, so you don't have to

1924
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,680
go that route. But LaMelo ball on this team. I

1925
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:19,800
know you have Knte George but they can play off

1926
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:21,960
each other, or maybe County George is in that Tray

1927
01:28:22,039 --> 01:28:24,279
package and Lou of draft Equay. They might even be

1928
01:28:24,319 --> 01:28:26,199
a team that depending on how they feel about Mark

1929
01:28:26,199 --> 01:28:28,039
Williams right now, I assume they're still pretty high on

1930
01:28:28,079 --> 01:28:30,319
him since they didn't take Donovan Klingen and they took

1931
01:28:30,399 --> 01:28:34,920
Salon instead, they might like Walker so but on and

1932
01:28:35,039 --> 01:28:37,439
so if you're Utah though, Grant now that you have

1933
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:40,239
extended Larry markin, what are you that you're in charge

1934
01:28:40,239 --> 01:28:43,520
of the jazz? Are you just saying no, we have Lowry,

1935
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:46,279
We're gonna trade everybody else. We're gonna make it clear

1936
01:28:46,359 --> 01:28:48,319
to Sexton and Clarkson these guys that they're not gonna

1937
01:28:48,359 --> 01:28:51,159
play a ton or And honestly, maybe this is a

1938
01:28:51,199 --> 01:28:53,199
short side of me, but they have so many assets

1939
01:28:53,239 --> 01:28:55,319
and I just don't see a way for them to

1940
01:28:55,399 --> 01:28:58,479
be bad enough to like really juice up their lottery odds.

1941
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:01,800
I'm probably going the route of oh, Brandon Ingham's sheep,

1942
01:29:02,159 --> 01:29:04,600
why not? Or I'll go all in for a LaMelo

1943
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,039
ball like someone who's younger under contract for a while

1944
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:09,880
that can noticeably impact their ceiling.

1945
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:16,159
Speaker 2: Man. I my first instinct was I really want Cooper

1946
01:29:16,239 --> 01:29:19,439
Flag and I already missed out on wemben Yama because

1947
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:21,279
I we didn't thank soon enough. I can't let it

1948
01:29:21,359 --> 01:29:24,760
happen twice in a three year span. But but like

1949
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:27,840
you did bring back market In, like and you did,

1950
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:30,239
it did happen with the timing that makes him untradable

1951
01:29:30,439 --> 01:29:33,960
this season. I think your route makes more sense given

1952
01:29:34,039 --> 01:29:38,199
where they are. And then like, it makes me uncomfortable

1953
01:29:38,199 --> 01:29:40,680
because you're just giving up on the idea probably of

1954
01:29:41,159 --> 01:29:44,279
we're gonna go get like a real like someone better,

1955
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:46,680
someone that could be better than market In, or could

1956
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:48,920
be better than LaMelo or Ingram or whoever we end

1957
01:29:49,039 --> 01:29:51,159
up with. Like, you're closing that door a little bit,

1958
01:29:51,199 --> 01:29:52,880
even though the draft's a crap shoot. Who knows they

1959
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:55,119
could draft seventh and get the best player in the

1960
01:29:55,279 --> 01:29:57,399
history of planet Earth. You never know. But like, I

1961
01:29:57,439 --> 01:30:00,359
think I'm more with you that you should just maybe

1962
01:30:00,399 --> 01:30:02,479
you should add to this group. He already got a

1963
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:06,279
million picks, right, Maybe that's the play, by the way.

1964
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:09,159
Speaker 1: And finally, I know people could say, well, lowry market

1965
01:30:09,279 --> 01:30:11,720
is more valuable as a trade asset on this extension.

1966
01:30:12,199 --> 01:30:15,399
That is totally fair. But if you re signed him

1967
01:30:15,399 --> 01:30:17,760
with the intent to move him, you're in still an

1968
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:20,720
awkward situation of you're not gonna help his trade value.

1969
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:22,399
If you cap his minutes or shut him down at

1970
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:24,800
some point, that's not gonna help his trade value. And

1971
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,079
then if you're gonna play him full bore, you're then

1972
01:30:27,159 --> 01:30:30,640
only gonna hurt your draft lottery stock, which matters because

1973
01:30:31,119 --> 01:30:33,119
you would, in theory, then be planning on trading him.

1974
01:30:33,119 --> 01:30:36,479
And so that's why I almost wonder there feels like

1975
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:38,279
there might be even if they're tiny fire there might

1976
01:30:38,319 --> 01:30:41,159
be fireworks in Utah left this offseason because I don't

1977
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:45,319
I personally do not see the logic behind re signing

1978
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:49,079
him and then still prioritizing the ultra long gamer we

1979
01:30:49,199 --> 01:30:51,359
want to go get Cooper Flagg or have a top

1980
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:53,279
lottery pick and park, because I just don't see the

1981
01:30:53,319 --> 01:30:55,560
pathway to them doing that without is it shutting him down,

1982
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:56,399
which makes no sense.

1983
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:01,079
Speaker 2: Isn't the logic that and I it's probably to me

1984
01:31:01,199 --> 01:31:04,880
it's flawed. Isn't the logic that by getting marketed under

1985
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:07,840
contract for more years he is a more valuable trade asset,

1986
01:31:08,119 --> 01:31:10,279
Except the problem is he's a more valuable trade asset

1987
01:31:10,359 --> 01:31:12,840
after a whole fucking year of playing on this team

1988
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:15,680
that's not trying to win theoretically, like that's a week.

1989
01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:17,640
I don't know, man, Like, I'm not sure that can

1990
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,159
work if you traded on it.

1991
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:21,880
Speaker 1: The other thing that's so hard about the team is

1992
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:24,760
who are you trading that's not marketing these Oh they'll

1993
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:27,399
that'll make the Jazz a lot worse, Like, yeah.

1994
01:31:27,319 --> 01:31:28,119
Speaker 2: They don't have that guy.

1995
01:31:28,399 --> 01:31:30,960
Speaker 1: It's Sexton is probably like, to me, the closest. And

1996
01:31:31,039 --> 01:31:33,199
then even if you trade or shut down these vets,

1997
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:36,199
we're just gonna rule out that Keane George or Cody

1998
01:31:36,239 --> 01:31:39,199
Williams just kind of pop or tailor Hendrix pops and

1999
01:31:39,319 --> 01:31:44,359
you still I just I feel like I'm like negatively

2000
01:31:44,439 --> 01:31:48,079
critiquing the direction they're headed in. It's just so I

2001
01:31:48,119 --> 01:31:50,640
don't is it optionality, is it lack of form? What

2002
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:53,359
is happening here? But at this point, I'm I'm sort

2003
01:31:53,359 --> 01:31:55,199
of bullish on the idea of you might as well

2004
01:31:55,319 --> 01:31:57,560
just try and get better and hope that one that

2005
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:00,439
helps you. But also that these all these their teams

2006
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:03,560
just picks that you own, looking specifically at Cleveland or Minnesota,

2007
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:06,359
that some of those later selections just become gold you're

2008
01:32:06,359 --> 01:32:08,560
either able to use in a trade to make you

2009
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:11,119
like hit that level or you end up with a

2010
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:13,159
top you know, seven prospect or whatever.

2011
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 2: So then why aren't we make saying they're going to

2012
01:32:17,079 --> 01:32:19,840
be better? I think we all most of the arguments

2013
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:22,600
we've made is that it's easier for in a lot

2014
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:24,760
of ways for them to be better, or it's like

2015
01:32:25,079 --> 01:32:27,159
it makes more sense for them to try to be better.

2016
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:31,039
So is it just the West is hard? Everybody else

2017
01:32:31,199 --> 01:32:34,760
is is is above them? It's who can they leap frog?

2018
01:32:35,279 --> 01:32:38,079
So they should tank or whatever? Like, But all we've

2019
01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:39,960
I don't know how long we've talked about the Jazz,

2020
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,079
but they're an interesting team for all these reasons, Like

2021
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:44,279
shouldn't we just say they're going to be better? Since

2022
01:32:44,319 --> 01:32:46,640
we agree? I think pretty clearly that like that's what

2023
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:47,680
you should try to do.

2024
01:32:48,159 --> 01:32:51,520
Speaker 1: No, because here's my issue is that if you're gonna

2025
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:53,680
say they're going to be better, you either have to

2026
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:55,560
be just a huge believer in the roster that they

2027
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:58,880
have right now, or you're predicting that they're going to

2028
01:32:59,039 --> 01:33:02,000
make that winish now, if you want to phrase it

2029
01:33:02,039 --> 01:33:03,760
that way, move And I'm not gonna predict that because

2030
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:06,479
Danny Ainge is he's he's kind of in the Darryl

2031
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:09,880
Mory camp where he's been willing to make uncomfortable moves

2032
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:12,000
or non moves where others happen, And so it wouldn't

2033
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:14,760
shock me if his plan is just we're gonna run

2034
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:17,199
it back and I'll make the decision mid season again.

2035
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:21,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I I think I think we should. We

2036
01:33:21,159 --> 01:33:23,640
gotta stay worse. But I feel less confident in that

2037
01:33:24,279 --> 01:33:26,600
than I did before we started talking about it, because.

2038
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 1: Oh why I will I will say that there's a

2039
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:31,319
lot of what do you But I guess the question

2040
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:34,279
is we already answered what we would do, which is

2041
01:33:34,359 --> 01:33:35,760
to go out there and make a move that makes

2042
01:33:35,800 --> 01:33:38,039
you better. What do you think they're actually more likely

2043
01:33:38,119 --> 01:33:40,960
to do to make that move to either or then

2044
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:43,720
sell off either before the season or in the middle

2045
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:44,159
of the season.

2046
01:33:44,199 --> 01:33:50,640
Speaker 2: Again, I just I don't know. I don't know anything. Yeah,

2047
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:53,520
I'm not sure it could go either way. It maybe

2048
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:57,439
maybe it's just as simple as uh, Danny Ainge is

2049
01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:00,760
like is defining characteristic as like he is an opportunists

2050
01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:05,239
when it comes to transacting, and maybe maybe his you like,

2051
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:07,560
we're kind of being facetious but maybe it really is.

2052
01:34:07,640 --> 01:34:10,279
He's just like, we'll just kind of see, we'll see

2053
01:34:10,319 --> 01:34:12,119
where we are, We'll see what's out there. We got,

2054
01:34:12,279 --> 01:34:14,279
you know, we don't what's the urgency. We can we

2055
01:34:14,359 --> 01:34:17,880
can decide what to do when the situation presents itself.

2056
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:21,000
And granted, I think also that that does cost you

2057
01:34:21,199 --> 01:34:23,720
probably your best chance to finish as a bottom four team,

2058
01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:24,960
and maybe they don't care about that.

2059
01:34:25,239 --> 01:34:30,239
Speaker 1: Is there any possibility that we're overestimating or underestimating how

2060
01:34:30,359 --> 01:34:32,520
hard it is to pick up wins as a Western

2061
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:36,319
Conference team at this point, because as they're honestly, could

2062
01:34:36,399 --> 01:34:39,680
they win like noticeably fewer than thirty But I guess

2063
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:41,720
you run into the you know, like go to the East,

2064
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:43,640
so we know the Blazers are gonna be worse than

2065
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:45,880
the Jazz, assuming that the Jet Well, yeah, that's it.

2066
01:34:46,039 --> 01:34:48,079
Speaker 2: And the question you're asking is where do those wins

2067
01:34:48,159 --> 01:34:50,159
come from? If they're gonna get more of them? And

2068
01:34:50,239 --> 01:34:52,000
it's like, well, the Grizzlies are going to pick up

2069
01:34:52,039 --> 01:34:54,640
twenty five more, the Spurs are gonna win twenty more

2070
01:34:54,720 --> 01:34:57,000
or whatever. Like it's we've look at our board, like

2071
01:34:57,159 --> 01:35:00,279
we've got way more one, two, three, four, five, six,

2072
01:35:00,399 --> 01:35:02,199
seven eight, so not way more. But we've got more

2073
01:35:02,239 --> 01:35:05,479
teams improving than not so like and most of our

2074
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:07,640
like you said at the Clippers, like maybe some of

2075
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:09,560
the wins come from there, but other than that, it's like,

2076
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:11,119
and where do you find them?

2077
01:35:11,359 --> 01:35:13,560
Speaker 1: Do you think that when you're looking at the East

2078
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:17,000
very quickly, I guess I'm not prepared to say that

2079
01:35:17,239 --> 01:35:21,640
many teams are gonna be worse than Utah, Detroit, and Washington.

2080
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:22,239
Speaker 2: For sure.

2081
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:26,159
Speaker 1: I think Brooklyn will get itself there. So that's four teams.

2082
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:30,279
Are you prepared to say that the Bulls, the Raptors,

2083
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:32,760
or the Hornets are gonna be worse than those? Are

2084
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:34,439
the teams that you look at and say, well, I

2085
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:36,319
could see it's anario where it's a coin flip, or

2086
01:35:36,479 --> 01:35:40,680
Chicago starts moving players or isn't playing certain guys. The

2087
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:43,079
Hornets if LaMelo gets injured again or miss his time,

2088
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:46,399
But like I would still say, like Utah even is

2089
01:35:46,399 --> 01:35:49,159
currently constructed, I'm not prepared to guarantee that they'll be

2090
01:35:49,239 --> 01:35:52,000
better than no Raptors, Bulls are or Hornet, but I

2091
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:54,359
think you could say safely they'll be better than one

2092
01:35:54,399 --> 01:35:55,760
of them at least. And so now all of a sudden,

2093
01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:58,439
it's okay, that's a bottom six record, right.

2094
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:00,520
Speaker 2: Right, So no, that was what I'm saying earlier. It's

2095
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:02,920
just like it's gonna be real hard to assure you

2096
01:36:03,079 --> 01:36:05,960
get that. You would have to do a ton of

2097
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:10,119
like purposeful maneuvering to make like we're definitely a bottom

2098
01:36:10,159 --> 01:36:12,680
four team, because thirty one wins is like, you know,

2099
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:15,159
that's that's a lot. That's a lot when you're talking

2100
01:36:15,159 --> 01:36:17,640
about like how far do we have to fall to

2101
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:19,760
get into this range we want? And it might just

2102
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:22,079
be it might be impossible, like you you might just

2103
01:36:22,199 --> 01:36:24,800
not be able to You can't get as bad as Washington,

2104
01:36:25,199 --> 01:36:28,560
you know, as bad as as I think Brooklyn might

2105
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:31,760
be really bad. You know, you mentioned Detroit, like there's

2106
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:34,439
just the Jazz one more than twice as many games

2107
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:37,600
as both Detroit and Washington last year. Like I just

2108
01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:40,319
don't it's it's gonna be tough, I don't know, really interesting, sneaky,

2109
01:36:40,399 --> 01:36:41,439
interesting team desire.

2110
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:46,079
Speaker 1: And we literally came to zero like consensus or resolution

2111
01:36:46,279 --> 01:36:47,880
with them. We were we have them as worse, but

2112
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:50,119
we talked in circles for fifteen minutes. Oh for sure,

2113
01:36:50,239 --> 01:36:51,840
all right, let's do an easier one. I think an

2114
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:54,079
easier one, and it's our last one. Right, Uh, let's

2115
01:36:54,119 --> 01:36:57,199
do Denver. And look, people worried about us going in

2116
01:36:57,239 --> 01:37:00,439
a in a draft type order, and we did it.

2117
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:02,239
We didn't even try to do the same team twice.

2118
01:37:02,239 --> 01:37:03,960
I forget one. Look at that. Look at that.

2119
01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:06,199
Speaker 2: First of all, I have to go back and correct.

2120
01:37:06,239 --> 01:37:08,159
I said the Wolves won fifty seven. They won fifty

2121
01:37:08,159 --> 01:37:10,560
six last year. As I'm just sorting here, the Nuggets

2122
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:13,399
won fifty seven, tied with Okac for the most in

2123
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:17,600
the West. So that's a high bar. They are more

2124
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:20,359
dependent on one player than anybody else. That one player,

2125
01:37:20,399 --> 01:37:22,960
I still think, and I think we agree, is the

2126
01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:23,880
best player in the world.

2127
01:37:24,640 --> 01:37:27,039
Speaker 1: But if because they didn't really act like it this summer,

2128
01:37:27,079 --> 01:37:27,640
but carry on.

2129
01:37:28,079 --> 01:37:30,159
Speaker 2: Well, let's we'll get to that. That's gonna be a

2130
01:37:30,199 --> 01:37:33,439
big part of the argument. If he's hurt, like they

2131
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:35,920
just they are not going to be favored to like

2132
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:38,159
beat like anybody. You know, they might go if yoga

2133
01:37:38,279 --> 01:37:40,880
missus two weeks, they might be favored to win like

2134
01:37:41,039 --> 01:37:43,039
one game in that stretch, you know, just from a

2135
01:37:43,079 --> 01:37:45,880
betting odds perspective, just but this with the numbers, would

2136
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:49,840
say right, they just fall apart. Jamal Murray's health question,

2137
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:53,279
Mark Cacp's gone, that's the big one. Like, even if

2138
01:37:53,319 --> 01:37:56,159
you don't think he mattered all that much, he was

2139
01:37:56,199 --> 01:37:59,119
still a fifth starter on a team that won a title.

2140
01:37:59,199 --> 01:38:02,279
He'd won a title for He's just an ideal role player,

2141
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:05,640
still pretty much as good as he's ever been, and

2142
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:07,880
they didn't do anything to replace him their banking on youth.

2143
01:38:09,239 --> 01:38:13,800
Speaker 1: I just I just don't see the Westbrook and Russell Westbrook.

2144
01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:19,399
Speaker 2: Maybe that's where we should stop. Uh. Yeah, fifty seven

2145
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:22,600
is too high for me, even though well maybe also

2146
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:25,600
because I forget who KCP was the one that said

2147
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:27,119
they ran out of gas, right because they had to

2148
01:38:27,159 --> 01:38:28,319
put on a run at the end of the year

2149
01:38:28,319 --> 01:38:30,079
because they cared about their seating and they ran out

2150
01:38:30,079 --> 01:38:33,000
of juice in the playoffs. Maybe that's an argument that

2151
01:38:33,079 --> 01:38:34,319
they won't do that and like.

2152
01:38:34,399 --> 01:38:38,920
Speaker 1: That, like anybody who went retired to Orlando, he was done.

2153
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:40,920
Speaker 2: I don't know, do you think they're gonna win more?

2154
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:42,359
I think they're gonna I think they're gonna be worse.

2155
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:45,079
Speaker 1: So we have a lot of Nuggets followers on YouTube,

2156
01:38:45,119 --> 01:38:47,279
and I love every single one of you. I think

2157
01:38:47,319 --> 01:38:49,600
there's a possibility that Jokich is so good and if

2158
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:52,600
they get good health and Christian Brown continues to get better,

2159
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:55,159
that yes, this is a sixty ish win team.

2160
01:38:55,319 --> 01:38:58,279
Speaker 2: Again, Peyton Watson pops maybe like that's I'm just not

2161
01:38:58,399 --> 01:38:58,640
I'm not.

2162
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:02,680
Speaker 1: Gonna predict it. And if you you lost your fifth starter,

2163
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:06,199
who was probably your fourth best player last year, he

2164
01:39:06,319 --> 01:39:08,359
was better than Michael Porter Junior for most of the season,

2165
01:39:08,399 --> 01:39:11,319
and offensively he gives you more than an Aaron Gordon,

2166
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:14,760
this is still an incredibly talented team. I still very

2167
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:17,359
much like Christian Brown and Peyton Watson. What we saw

2168
01:39:17,399 --> 01:39:20,000
from Christian Brown against the Minnesota series, say, look to

2169
01:39:20,039 --> 01:39:23,079
the Nuggets' credit, and we mentioned this leading into the

2170
01:39:23,159 --> 01:39:25,760
series that we thought Brown might be a better defensive

2171
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:29,039
option against the Wolves than KCP. That came to bear out,

2172
01:39:29,199 --> 01:39:31,159
And so that can make you higher on Christian Brown.

2173
01:39:31,720 --> 01:39:35,359
I just worry they're putting too much, not not necessarily

2174
01:39:35,479 --> 01:39:38,159
on Nicole Yoch. Well, they're putting too much on Nikola

2175
01:39:38,199 --> 01:39:41,359
Jokic to just lift up. Maybe I said they didn't

2176
01:39:41,359 --> 01:39:42,680
act like he was the best player in the world.

2177
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:44,119
They kind of did and just said not Yoki will

2178
01:39:44,159 --> 01:39:48,119
figure it out like that positive player. I think that

2179
01:39:48,359 --> 01:39:52,279
what they did is increase the gap between the Jokic

2180
01:39:52,359 --> 01:39:55,439
and non Jokic minutes, and that, to me is a problem.

2181
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:57,000
Like it for me, it gets harder for them to

2182
01:39:57,079 --> 01:40:02,399
build units without Jokic. So we're talking in the regular season,

2183
01:40:02,439 --> 01:40:06,119
specifically what thirteen to seventeen minutes a game, whatever it

2184
01:40:06,199 --> 01:40:09,079
ends up being, it gets harder for me to envision

2185
01:40:09,119 --> 01:40:11,159
them fielding lineups that are gonna be net positives. And

2186
01:40:11,239 --> 01:40:13,600
I know people think this might be the team that

2187
01:40:13,880 --> 01:40:16,760
utilizes Russell Westbrook properly. Part of the appeal of that

2188
01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:20,000
happening is probably him playing with nikolajokicch And I don't

2189
01:40:20,199 --> 01:40:22,840
know how to feel about the bench because I'm assuming

2190
01:40:22,920 --> 01:40:27,039
Christian Brown is gonna start, And so let's say that happens. Now,

2191
01:40:27,079 --> 01:40:30,560
all of a sudden, you have Sharich and Westbrook and

2192
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:33,640
Peyton Watson playing in the same units. If Michael Malone

2193
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:36,600
doesn't change his rotation patterns, that's a little bit of

2194
01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:39,840
a red flag for me, because now you're dealing with Okay,

2195
01:40:39,920 --> 01:40:43,239
Sharge can stretch the floor, but he's not a capslock shooter.

2196
01:40:43,359 --> 01:40:45,439
And none of their backup big except for Zeke Naji,

2197
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:48,319
who they you know, what do we even count him

2198
01:40:48,359 --> 01:40:49,279
like as part of the equation?

2199
01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:50,600
Speaker 2: Sill still exists.

2200
01:40:50,720 --> 01:40:53,119
Speaker 1: We know that, but like when you had Reggie Jackson

2201
01:40:53,119 --> 01:40:54,640
as your backup point card, at least that with someone

2202
01:40:54,680 --> 01:40:58,279
who in theory could shoot. And it's now like, does

2203
01:40:58,319 --> 01:41:00,760
the floor shrink too much there? Does do we gain

2204
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:03,359
this and say, well, should we be starting Peyton Watson

2205
01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:05,880
just because we know that Nikole Jokic will be able

2206
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:08,319
to better, like the offense will still mostly be fine.

2207
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:11,760
There's just so many questions here, and I want to

2208
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:13,800
make it clear they are still in my inner circle

2209
01:41:14,039 --> 01:41:17,279
of title contenders. I just don't feel as confident as

2210
01:41:17,319 --> 01:41:19,600
I felt in them the past two years when they

2211
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:22,279
were my title pick in each of the past two preseasons.

2212
01:41:22,680 --> 01:41:25,319
They will probably not be my title pick this preseason.

2213
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:28,199
And what I can't wrap my head around is even

2214
01:41:28,239 --> 01:41:30,840
if you wanted to prioritize development, you could have done

2215
01:41:30,880 --> 01:41:33,199
that and still kept KCP, And then I think that

2216
01:41:33,199 --> 01:41:35,520
would have left open up like after what Christian Brown did,

2217
01:41:36,039 --> 01:41:38,880
and like having Peyton Wattson's and Julian Strath are healthy,

2218
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:41,159
I might have been Yeah, maybe maybe they're just better

2219
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:44,560
and I don't. I think they've they've leaned too far

2220
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:47,840
into this. We're gonna bet on internal development for me

2221
01:41:48,079 --> 01:41:51,279
and for them to do that, it's not just a

2222
01:41:51,359 --> 01:41:53,239
trust in Nikole Yokic. You need to trust that Jamal

2223
01:41:53,319 --> 01:41:55,520
Murray is actually a MAX player who can carry lineups

2224
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:57,159
on his own. And when you look at how many

2225
01:41:57,199 --> 01:41:59,600
of his minutes come alongside Nicole Jokic, it's not even

2226
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:01,439
a matter of minutes without Nicole yoak at your bad

2227
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:05,159
which they are, it's that Michael Will clearly doesn't trust

2228
01:42:05,279 --> 01:42:07,880
him at the level you would have a typical second

2229
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:12,239
MAX player who's also considered your second best playmaker to run.

2230
01:42:12,359 --> 01:42:14,520
Maybe that changes this year. I'm open to anything with

2231
01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:17,239
this team. They're still uber talented, but fifty eight wins

2232
01:42:17,319 --> 01:42:18,920
is a tall order, and so I just think the

2233
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:21,680
faulting to worse is the safer, smarter pick.

2234
01:42:22,439 --> 01:42:24,640
Speaker 2: I think that's right, and I think it is important

2235
01:42:24,680 --> 01:42:28,199
to distinguish between regular season success and like where they

2236
01:42:28,279 --> 01:42:31,680
fall in the you know, the title odds or are

2237
01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:33,840
not the actual odds, but like who we view as

2238
01:42:33,960 --> 01:42:36,720
teams that could like yeah, okay, oh, Denver won the title,

2239
01:42:37,079 --> 01:42:39,239
all right? Like not, you know, that it's that's not

2240
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:41,079
it's not going to be like, no way how they

2241
01:42:41,159 --> 01:42:44,319
do it without KCP. It's a different thing. Like and

2242
01:42:44,479 --> 01:42:47,039
I would just ask you, like, is it too much

2243
01:42:47,079 --> 01:42:52,439
of a talking head question to say like considering players

2244
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:54,840
on the team, maybe just imputing it to everybody, but

2245
01:42:55,199 --> 01:42:57,960
like it's been said that they ran out of gas

2246
01:42:58,479 --> 01:43:01,399
and that's why they lost. Yeah, are you concerned that

2247
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:03,840
Jamal Murray Nicole Yogic are playing in the Olympics like

2248
01:43:04,439 --> 01:43:07,039
that they're playing over the summer after a title run

2249
01:43:07,159 --> 01:43:09,319
and after a deep playoff run and now there's no

2250
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:11,840
there's less of a break, Like I don't know if

2251
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:14,520
fatigue was a factor, Like this ain't helping, right, Like

2252
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:16,840
that's great, that's part of it. It feels a little

2253
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:19,520
like first take you, but you know it's not. It's

2254
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:22,600
not something you totally gloss over in this particular situation either.

2255
01:43:22,680 --> 01:43:25,199
If you're talking about like maybe they rest guys a

2256
01:43:25,199 --> 01:43:27,960
little more because they're wiped out from two and a

2257
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:30,880
half years of of busting their ass, Like that's that's

2258
01:43:30,920 --> 01:43:32,920
a thing like that could absolutely, you know, knock them

2259
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:34,520
down a win or two. It's not it's not out

2260
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:35,399
of the realman possibility.

2261
01:43:35,439 --> 01:43:37,600
Speaker 1: Again, what if you were to make the argument that

2262
01:43:37,680 --> 01:43:40,079
they're a better team than they were last season?

2263
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:41,039
Speaker 2: What is it?

2264
01:43:41,199 --> 01:43:44,039
Speaker 1: Is the pathway just that both Christian Brown and Peyton

2265
01:43:44,279 --> 01:43:48,239
or I'll say two of Christian Brown, Peyton Watson and

2266
01:43:48,640 --> 01:43:51,960
Julius Strouther are just better than Kntavious Calbo Pope post

2267
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:53,760
for Like, what is the actual And I guess that

2268
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:55,399
would be a fair bet to make. I still find

2269
01:43:55,479 --> 01:43:57,960
it Why would you let Casey p walk? I just

2270
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:01,680
I'm struggling to figure out, like, what is the argument

2271
01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:04,520
aside from just maybe there's injuries elsewhere that Nicole Yokic

2272
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:06,800
plays in all eighty two games, wins another MVP Award

2273
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:10,039
and you It's just I don't like to actually argue,

2274
01:44:10,039 --> 01:44:12,279
forget actually forget about wins for a second, to just

2275
01:44:12,479 --> 01:44:15,039
argue that they're a better overall team than last year.

2276
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:19,279
I find myself struggling to like the outcome would I

2277
01:44:19,279 --> 01:44:20,520
think would have to be what I said, is that

2278
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:24,119
two of those young guys are better than KCP was

2279
01:44:24,199 --> 01:44:24,960
for you last year.

2280
01:44:25,079 --> 01:44:27,840
Speaker 2: I think I think we're thinking about it similarly. I

2281
01:44:27,880 --> 01:44:32,319
would frame it as the argument would be not necessarily

2282
01:44:32,399 --> 01:44:35,159
that like Brown or Watson or Strather or whoever you

2283
01:44:35,199 --> 01:44:38,399
want to choose. Is is like it is better than KCP.

2284
01:44:38,840 --> 01:44:41,720
I think what the argument would be is it actually

2285
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:46,199
doesn't matter who gets to play big minutes with Jokic.

2286
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:50,600
He'll find a way to like make the difference up somehow,

2287
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:52,199
so like Brown doesn't have to be better. It's that

2288
01:44:52,319 --> 01:44:54,239
Jokic will just figure out how to use what he's

2289
01:44:54,279 --> 01:44:57,279
good at. If you give him kcp's minutes, you know,

2290
01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:00,159
long enough stretches to he'll just turn him into a

2291
01:45:00,239 --> 01:45:02,199
different type of good player. But it's like the bottom

2292
01:45:02,239 --> 01:45:05,159
line will be you could put some like four scarecrows

2293
01:45:05,159 --> 01:45:07,319
around your kitchen, you'd figure it out. Like that's to me,

2294
01:45:07,439 --> 01:45:09,640
it's really you said it earlier. It's just a bet

2295
01:45:09,720 --> 01:45:12,439
on him as much as anything. If you're saying they're

2296
01:45:12,439 --> 01:45:13,079
gonna be better.

2297
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:16,199
Speaker 1: Because it's tough good. I know, losing Bruce Brown. They

2298
01:45:16,199 --> 01:45:17,680
couldn't keep Bruce Brown. I'll make that clear. If this

2299
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:20,239
is the second offseason in which they lost a player

2300
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:23,479
where even if you are looking at a potential placement

2301
01:45:23,479 --> 01:45:26,199
already on the roster, they don't check the same number

2302
01:45:26,239 --> 01:45:28,920
of boxes. Where Okay, you had concerns about kcp's offense

2303
01:45:29,439 --> 01:45:32,960
in the postseason, just in a vacuum, he is more

2304
01:45:33,039 --> 01:45:35,399
of the gonna get up threes and give you really

2305
01:45:35,439 --> 01:45:38,920
good defense than Julian Strather doesn't check both those boxes.

2306
01:45:39,239 --> 01:45:41,960
Christian Brown right now doesn't check both those boxes. Peyton

2307
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:44,720
Watson doesn't check both those boxes. And so they're all

2308
01:45:44,800 --> 01:45:47,319
different types of players. And now this is the second

2309
01:45:47,359 --> 01:45:49,800
offseason in which that's happened to them. And so even

2310
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:52,560
if the development comes along, is the best version of

2311
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:56,640
Peyton Watson next season good enough offensively to offset that?

2312
01:45:56,840 --> 01:45:59,199
Ditto for Christian Brown, Or is the best version of

2313
01:45:59,239 --> 01:46:02,279
Julian Strother enough defensively to offset that?

2314
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just it just puts more of a burden

2315
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:08,319
on Jokich. And like, look, if you I don't know,

2316
01:46:08,359 --> 01:46:10,520
it feels like ancient history now, but it's like you're

2317
01:46:10,600 --> 01:46:13,760
taking a really good defensive piece out of your most

2318
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:17,079
used lineups. I know Brown, Brown's great like I and

2319
01:46:17,199 --> 01:46:19,920
maybe Watson's great, But if it's Strawther, just because you

2320
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:23,039
need shooting, you can't have Brown and Brown or Watson

2321
01:46:23,159 --> 01:46:25,760
and Aaron Gordon. If Aaron Gordon's gonna be shooting like

2322
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:28,720
you did last year, you gotta have shooting. Then it's like, Okay,

2323
01:46:28,760 --> 01:46:30,640
there's a weaker defensive link, and now we're going to

2324
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:33,479
relitigate the Jokic can't anchor a good enough defense to

2325
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:35,720
win a title thing because you're just chipping away at

2326
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:38,560
like his support system. I don't know if you can.

2327
01:46:39,119 --> 01:46:42,560
I'm open to the idea that, like, offensively, the Nuggets

2328
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:45,720
will be awesome, just it doesn't matter who's around Jokic.

2329
01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:48,359
That's not that's just not true. On the other end, necessarily,

2330
01:46:48,439 --> 01:46:50,920
I do think he's improved a ton, But if you're

2331
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:53,880
looking for like where's the where's the drop off happening,

2332
01:46:54,039 --> 01:46:57,560
it's potentially that you're just going to be sacrificing something

2333
01:46:59,039 --> 01:47:01,239
in lieu of Casey, right, Like, I don't know.

2334
01:47:01,560 --> 01:47:05,560
Speaker 1: Do you think any one other than Oklahoma City slash

2335
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:09,439
Boston has usurped them in the championship conversation pecking order?

2336
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:14,600
I think the teams to note there would be Dallas, Minnesota, Philly,

2337
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:17,680
and New York, maybe Cleveland if it were Milwaukee, Like

2338
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:20,920
are you I wouldn't guarantee any of those teams are

2339
01:47:21,000 --> 01:47:24,119
just have better title equity than Denver. No, I think

2340
01:47:24,159 --> 01:47:24,520
that's right.

2341
01:47:24,600 --> 01:47:26,640
Speaker 2: So you put I think maybe what you're saying is

2342
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:29,239
you've got okay See in Boston. I think if we're

2343
01:47:29,279 --> 01:47:31,520
doing tiers, which were not yet, but like they feel

2344
01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:32,319
like Denver.

2345
01:47:32,359 --> 01:47:35,880
Speaker 1: In their tier, but behind both of them within that tier.

2346
01:47:36,279 --> 01:47:38,279
Speaker 2: So it's like they have a case and we're not

2347
01:47:38,319 --> 01:47:42,079
going to argue about it, but they're technically ranked below

2348
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:43,439
title contender.

2349
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:45,279
Speaker 1: Is just how I would frank, Yeah, yeah.

2350
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:47,520
Speaker 2: I like I like them better as a title threat

2351
01:47:47,600 --> 01:47:50,640
than I mean, yeah, I guess, I don't know. They

2352
01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:53,520
almost feel like they fit right between OKAC Boston and

2353
01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:55,479
then the other teams you listed, like it's.

2354
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:58,159
Speaker 1: A second tier right with the Joelle and beat health

2355
01:47:58,199 --> 01:48:01,680
stuff in Philly, the Knicks just Julius Rynolds postseason track

2356
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:03,800
record and if your second now if you move him

2357
01:48:03,800 --> 01:48:07,079
as your second best jock Creader Bridges and then Minnesota

2358
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:09,840
on rot we're talking about betting on youth. I mean,

2359
01:48:09,880 --> 01:48:11,520
it didn't cost them any of their veterans, but like

2360
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:14,079
if Rob Dillingham is gonna play this huge role into

2361
01:48:14,119 --> 01:48:17,680
the postseason, so there's I think that's I think that's right,

2362
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:21,439
is that it's they're probably sandwiched between Boston and okay

2363
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:23,800
See and then all those other teams that we met, and.

2364
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:26,960
Speaker 2: Then to even thin slice it more, I do think

2365
01:48:27,199 --> 01:48:29,800
that if I had to choose a tier, I would

2366
01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:33,399
probably move Denver up into that top tier more likely

2367
01:48:33,439 --> 01:48:37,560
than I would move them down among Minnesota, New York, Philly, whatever.

2368
01:48:38,239 --> 01:48:41,079
Speaker 1: Minnesota and Dallas are tripping me off, and even Milwaukee

2369
01:48:41,359 --> 01:48:43,600
I'm kind of just sitting there, like they had a

2370
01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:45,640
Gary Trent junior and they were killing people with their

2371
01:48:45,680 --> 01:48:47,760
top four players in the court last year. But Chris

2372
01:48:47,800 --> 01:48:50,680
Middleton is two new ankles. Is that a good thing

2373
01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:53,520
or a bad thing? I don't. I don't know so uh,

2374
01:48:53,680 --> 01:48:57,439
but they do feel more at risk of not being

2375
01:48:57,479 --> 01:48:59,159
what you just said were. They feel more at risk

2376
01:48:59,199 --> 01:49:01,960
of being passed. Like once we start to play the games,

2377
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:04,039
I might look at it and say, whereas I probably

2378
01:49:04,079 --> 01:49:05,960
wouldn't have been envisioned it if they brought back KCP.

2379
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:08,560
I'm now more open to the idea of, well, if

2380
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:10,079
we start to see the games like I could see

2381
01:49:10,159 --> 01:49:13,680
Minnesota or Dallas or feel like I can see those

2382
01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:16,359
teams like usurping them, I wouldn't. Again, I'm not predicting

2383
01:49:16,399 --> 01:49:18,600
it right now, but they do feel more vocal. They

2384
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:22,239
certainly I mean, objectively speaking, they are more vulnerable in

2385
01:49:22,319 --> 01:49:24,319
the championship discussion than they were last year.

2386
01:49:25,199 --> 01:49:28,119
Speaker 2: I think that has to be uncontroversial. Like I don't

2387
01:49:28,680 --> 01:49:31,520
maybe maybe like Nuggets, fans will say, like no, no,

2388
01:49:31,880 --> 01:49:35,119
like somehow Brown and or Watson and or Strawther and

2389
01:49:35,279 --> 01:49:37,640
or Pickett and or just down down down the list

2390
01:49:38,119 --> 01:49:40,800
are are somehow better than KCP. I just like I

2391
01:49:40,880 --> 01:49:41,760
don't where a.

2392
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:44,239
Speaker 1: Hunter Tyson stands at. Let's get that in the frontment.

2393
01:49:45,159 --> 01:49:45,800
Speaker 2: Who can say?

2394
01:49:46,119 --> 01:49:48,760
Speaker 1: Are you not even take us at your first pod back, Batner,

2395
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:50,720
I haven't edited it yet, and we had some fu

2396
01:49:51,079 --> 01:49:53,359
technical fuck ups along the way on my end, but

2397
01:49:53,800 --> 01:49:55,920
you came back to over one hundred minute podcasts, so

2398
01:49:56,560 --> 01:49:59,119
you're you're in playoff form already after vacation, and.

2399
01:49:59,159 --> 01:50:01,319
Speaker 2: We had those a time we had lightning on a

2400
01:50:01,399 --> 01:50:04,199
podcast that knocked out your internet. I mean the force

2401
01:50:04,239 --> 01:50:04,840
of my dogs.

2402
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:07,520
Speaker 1: Though they did bust in because they were scared, but

2403
01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:09,439
they were just quiet. One of them actually just left

2404
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:10,439
when I was giving them a.

2405
01:50:10,479 --> 01:50:13,880
Speaker 2: Compliment, so would I wouldn't have known it my doorbell ring.

2406
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:15,880
It feels like a little bit that the universe was

2407
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:19,039
conspiring to end this podcast, especially with acts of God

2408
01:50:19,119 --> 01:50:19,840
like lightning storm.

2409
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:22,720
Speaker 1: You know what, sickle mode was activated and so we

2410
01:50:22,880 --> 01:50:23,439
pur severed.

2411
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:27,159
Speaker 2: Couldn't do it. Yeah, let's see force. We don't have

2412
01:50:27,239 --> 01:50:30,880
any force masurer clauses because there's no uh, there's no

2413
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:33,439
way for God or anyone to stop us from podcasting.

2414
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:37,560
Maybe that's the new tagline. God can't stop us. Not

2415
01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:38,880
even God can stop us.

2416
01:50:39,359 --> 01:50:40,399
Speaker 1: Try and keeps fayling.

2417
01:50:40,600 --> 01:50:43,960
Speaker 2: They tried, they can't do it. All things are possible,

2418
01:50:44,199 --> 01:50:48,319
not that can't do it. Uh oh uh, we got

2419
01:50:48,439 --> 01:50:51,119
let's hammer this out live on air. Jared Allen just

2420
01:50:51,159 --> 01:50:53,960
got paid again. Are we still apologizing to him? Do

2421
01:50:54,039 --> 01:50:57,119
we apologize more? Or do we stop and pick somebody else?

2422
01:50:57,439 --> 01:50:59,840
Speaker 1: Because we should just keep apologizing to him, because they've

2423
01:51:00,119 --> 01:51:01,640
very clear, like we'll sign you to this just so

2424
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:06,000
that we can still trade you this season. Probably there was.

2425
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:09,479
Speaker 2: Any hit your toughness, I apologize you'd have though, well

2426
01:51:09,479 --> 01:51:10,680
you were gone a Cavs fan.

2427
01:51:11,600 --> 01:51:14,159
Speaker 1: I don't remember what they disagreed with that I was

2428
01:51:14,239 --> 01:51:16,359
talking about. I couldn't remember, but they said, isn't just

2429
01:51:16,439 --> 01:51:19,319
the same podcast that thought the Jared Allen contract was bad?

2430
01:51:19,760 --> 01:51:22,199
And I did you actually missed it? While you were gone.

2431
01:51:22,359 --> 01:51:25,439
I went months without responding to any negativity. A Kings

2432
01:51:25,479 --> 01:51:27,399
fan ended up catching me in a bad moment said

2433
01:51:27,439 --> 01:51:29,720
that we didn't watch basketball, and I called him an asshole.

2434
01:51:30,000 --> 01:51:31,920
I deleted it. I think they were kind of being

2435
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:33,840
an asshole, but I need to be about saying it.

2436
01:51:34,079 --> 01:51:38,840
And then I responded to this yokal on Twitter on YouTube.

2437
01:51:39,119 --> 01:51:41,279
I was like, we literally apologized to Jared Awen in

2438
01:51:41,399 --> 01:51:44,359
every single podcast I GRANTM I do together, so please

2439
01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:47,000
people are wrong and they and walk it back, get

2440
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:48,760
out of here and look, the one thing we got

2441
01:51:48,840 --> 01:51:52,840
right is would having Jared Allen there maybe limit repress

2442
01:51:53,079 --> 01:51:57,359
Evan Mobley ceiling. I prove it hasn't. Yep.

2443
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:00,640
Speaker 2: It seems like it's the what's the hoped for response

2444
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:03,319
from someone that says you don't watch basketball? Do you like?

2445
01:52:03,479 --> 01:52:07,359
Is it hope that like probably you got us You're right.

2446
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:09,880
Speaker 1: I need it to be not so much as a

2447
01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:11,680
wimp and let it in like I don't. I shouldn't

2448
01:52:11,680 --> 01:52:13,359
care what these random people on the internet thing. But

2449
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:15,840
I tell you, the negative feedback loop, even when it's

2450
01:52:15,880 --> 01:52:18,640
not creative or can like valid criticism, it.

2451
01:52:18,720 --> 01:52:19,680
Speaker 2: Just gets exhausting.

2452
01:52:20,600 --> 01:52:23,600
Speaker 1: Sure, but that at the top is the world's best podcast.

2453
01:52:23,640 --> 01:52:25,840
Speaker 2: I guess you know, yeah, you know, I find another

2454
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:28,600
one that did. God can't stop. All right, Well, I

2455
01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:31,319
guess we leave them in. I think you know we've

2456
01:52:31,399 --> 01:52:33,680
we've come down. We've gone down this road for so long.

2457
01:52:34,199 --> 01:52:36,920
U If you if you have not already, great review, subscribe,

2458
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:39,560
Tell your friends, tell your enemies, comment on YouTube, help

2459
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:43,039
the algorithm. Love us. Check out the merch It's brand new.

2460
01:52:43,159 --> 01:52:45,640
We're both sporting it. I even have a hat behind

2461
01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:48,560
behind me. If you can see it, I might wear

2462
01:52:48,600 --> 01:52:51,479
it next time. It's too small to see. Uh yeah,

2463
01:52:51,560 --> 01:52:53,640
check out the merch shop. Join our discord links for

2464
01:52:53,680 --> 01:52:56,319
all that stuff in the YouTube and podcast description. We

2465
01:52:56,439 --> 01:52:58,760
close as always and forever. Oh Dan's got a hat

2466
01:52:58,760 --> 01:52:59,399
to U.

2467
01:53:00,199 --> 01:53:02,000
Speaker 1: Terrible. I should have branded it on the back because

2468
01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:04,439
I only wear my hat's back, so.

2469
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 2: You know next time. Merchan dropped three point zero. Shouts

2470
01:53:07,960 --> 01:53:11,319
to Frank Nee la Quina and foreveryone, Always New Money.

2471
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:13,119
Apologies to Jared Anlay