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Are you feeling lucky? 32 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:29.239 Noe's just necessary for my long eighteen plus terms and conditions 33 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:29.439 of plucks. 34 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:30.599 You wants every details. 35 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:41.480 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 36 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:44.599 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 37 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:50.760 written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK 38 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:55.480 every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 39 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:59.640 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 40 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:03.200 your journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 41 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:17.439 Good Evening. I got a call. I got a girl 42 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:20.840 hung herself in the guesthouse. The call came on the 43 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:24.960 morning of July thirteenth, twenty eleven, from the historic Spreckels Mansion, 44 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:30.520 a lavish beachfront property in Coronado, California, owned by pharmaceutical 45 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:35.280 tycoon and multi millionaire Jonah Shacknai. When authorities arrived, they 46 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:39.000 found the naked body of Jonah's girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau, gagged, 47 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:42.759 her ankles tied, and her wrist bound behind her. Jonah's 48 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:45.919 brother Adam claimed to have found Rebecca hanging from by 49 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:49.639 a rope from the second floor balcony on a bedroom door. 50 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.120 In black paint were the cryptic words, she saved him? 51 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:57.159 Can you save her? Was this scrawled message a suicide 52 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:00.879 note or a killer's taunt? Rebecca's death came two days 53 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:04.680 after Jonas's six year old son, Max, took a devastating 54 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:09.639 fall while in Rebecca's care. Authorities deemed Rebecca's death a 55 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:13.719 suicide resulting from her guilt, But who would stage either 56 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:17.879 a suicide or a murder in such a bizarre, elaborate way. 57 00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:23.280 Award winning investigative journalist Caitlin Rother we've stunning new details 58 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.879 into a personal, yet objective examination of the sensational case. 59 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:30.800 She explores its many layers, including the civil suit in 60 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:34.560 which a jury found Adam Shackknight responsible for Rebecca's death, 61 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:38.759 and the San Diego County Sheriff's department bombshell decision to 62 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:42.680 re confirm its original findings, telling as it is troubling, 63 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:47.000 this controversial real life mystery is a classic American tragedy 64 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:51.080 that evokes the same haunting fascination as a John beIN Ay, 65 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:55.639 Ramsay and OJ Simpson cases. The book they were featuring 66 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:59.639 this evening is Death on Ocean Boulevard inside the Coronado 67 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:03.479 Men mentioned case with my special guest journalist and author, 68 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.919 Caitlin Rother. Thank you so much for this interview and 69 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:09.120 welcome back to the program. Caitlyn Roster. 70 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:10.439 Thank you. It's good to be back. 71 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:13.960 Thank you so much, and it's great to have you 72 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:20.120 discussing this incredible new book, Death on Ocean Boulevard. Let's 73 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:22.360 start off right as you do in the book, to 74 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:28.319 getting to the crime scene where this Adam Shacknay calls 75 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:34.120 nine to one one to report a suicide. Someone hung 76 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:38.040 herself in the guest house. Take us to this Ocean 77 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.720 Boulevard in this July and tell us what happened July thirteen, 78 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.480 twenty eleven. What was that nine one one call? 79 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:51.040 Okay, before I get started, I just want to crime 80 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:56.199 quote unquote book, But there actually is no criminal case. 81 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:00.879 So when we call it a crime scene, it's actually 82 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:03.160 a death scene, and I just have to be really 83 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:08.120 careful because nobody has been accused of a crime in 84 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:15.480 this case in criminal court. So Adam Shackney basically was 85 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:19.399 at the guest house of his brother's mansion. It's known 86 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:23.639 as the Spreckels Mansion. It's a historic house here in 87 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:27.160 San Diego County on on what we call an island. 88 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:31.519 It's basically a piece of land that is connected to 89 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:34.439 the mainland only by a you know, a strip of land, 90 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.560 and there's a bridge across it, and there's two active 91 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:38.879 military bases there. 92 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:40.680 It's largely a. 93 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:44.240 Retirement community and there's a lot of very expensive homes there, 94 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:47.600 and people like Jonah Shackni who live in hot places 95 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:50.480 in the summer, like you know, the Scottsdale Phoenix area 96 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:53.120 where he generally was living the rest of the year, 97 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:56.879 they buy homes over here and they you know, come 98 00:05:56.920 --> 00:05:58.879 over here during the summer when it's just too hot 99 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:04.639 to be Arizona, Texas, places like that. So Adam Shacknai, though, 100 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:09.480 is a tugboat captain, and he flew in from Memphis 101 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:14.199 when his nephew Max had that terrible fall from inside 102 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:17.959 the mansion and that was less than forty eight hours 103 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:21.920 before he called nine one one. The night before he 104 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:26.319 woke up and called nine one one. He had flown 105 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:31.079 in around four o'clock and he had dinner with Rebecca 106 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:35.439 and Jonah, and there was really hardly any conversation because 107 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:39.000 they were all very upset about Max because Max was 108 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:45.399 in the ICU. When Rebecca had found Max, he was 109 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:47.759 not breathing and his heart had stopped. It took him 110 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:50.800 twenty five to thirty minutes to get him back, so 111 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.600 he was in the hospital. Jonah was just having a 112 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:57.120 quick meal and then Rebecca drove him back to the hospital, 113 00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:02.240 drove her and Adam back to the mansion and then 114 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:07.120 they you know, drove into the driveway, and Adam told 115 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:10.240 me that he offered to talk to Rebecca about what 116 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:12.040 had happened in case she felt like she wanted to 117 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.079 talk because he had flown out to be supportive to 118 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:19.519 the family and she was his brother's girlfriend. But she 119 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:24.560 didn't want to talk. And according to him, you know, 120 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:28.759 he doesn't drink, and Jonah did doesn't drink, Rebecca didn't drink, 121 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:33.560 didn't do drugs. They're all health nets. But Adam told 122 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:37.480 me that Rebecca said to him, I don't drink, but 123 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:40.600 if I did, tonight would be the night essentially. I 124 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:42.600 don't know if I'm quoting it exactly, but that was 125 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.120 in essence what she said. So she went into the 126 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.720 main house, according to him, and he went into the 127 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:52.319 guest house. He called his girlfriend who he'd been seeing 128 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:57.920 for you know, a good twenty years, and she her 129 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.680 name's Mary, and so they chatted for a little bit 130 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.120 and Adam said he took an ambience, went to sleep. 131 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.199 So when he came out the next morning he woke up, 132 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:11.759 he said he'd kind of slept a little fitfully, and 133 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:15.319 he was anxious when he woke up. So he masturbated 134 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.360 that morning to porn on his phone. Now he admitted this, 135 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:23.000 volunteered this to police, okay, which you know some people 136 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:27.160 have wondered why did he do that. Took a shower, 137 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.199 came out, and was on his way to ask Rebecca 138 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:34.000 if she wanted to go get some breakfast and coffee. 139 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:36.919 But he came out and he saw what he saw. 140 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:40.600 It was a mannequin or something hanging in the yard. 141 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:44.320 Because you know, Jonah has two teenage kids and he thought, well, 142 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:47.399 maybe they did something as a gag. As he looked closer, 143 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:51.919 he saw that it was Rebecca hanging there, and she 144 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:57.320 was naked, naked, her hands bound behind her back, her 145 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:01.080 feet tied together, and there was a gagged in her mouth. 146 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:04.679 So's a T shirt that was wrapped around her head 147 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:08.840 several times, on top of the hanging rope and on 148 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:12.960 top of her hair. So women have said, well that 149 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.399 right away is strange because if you know, when you're 150 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:19.120 a woman, you have long hair, you don't want a 151 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.919 rope or something on top of your hair. You usually 152 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:24.360 would pull your hair out. Well, So granted, if you're 153 00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:28.360 in the kind of shape that the authorities say she was, 154 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:31.720 she was going to commit suicide, maybe she wasn't thinking 155 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.159 about that, but that has raised some questions with a 156 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.159 lot of women I've talked to. So anyway, he doesn't 157 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.519 know whether she's dead or alive. So he says he 158 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:45.320 runs into the kitchen, grabs a knife out of the drawer, 159 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:49.919 and she's too high up, he says, for him to 160 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.039 reach her. So he's got to bring a table over. 161 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:57.759 So there's a wooden table, a three legged table. It's 162 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:00.240 three legged because one of the legs is broken. The 163 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:04.679 leg falls off when he drags it over, and you 164 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:09.320 can actually hear the leg bouncing on the bricks. That 165 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:11.559 that that that you know, as she's as he's dragging 166 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:13.600 the table over, he says, he gets up on the 167 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:18.600 table and stands on the table and pulls her to 168 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:23.440 his against him. He cuts the rope above, takes her 169 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:25.440 you know, in his arms, and lays her down on 170 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:28.440 the grass. Now this is while he's on the nine 171 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:30.519 to one one call. So you hear all of this 172 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:32.879 on the nine to one one call. You can hear 173 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:35.960 him grunting and cussing and panting. And he doesn't know 174 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:38.679 the address, so he can't send the paramedics to the 175 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:42.080 house without running to the front of the house finding 176 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:44.639 out the address and then telling him the number. And 177 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:47.440 he says, it's where you came to get the kid. Uh, 178 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:51.080 you know yesterday. Well it wasn't yesterday, it was two 179 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:54.200 days before. And they don't have the same dispatchers working 180 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:56.519 every single day, so they had no idea what he 181 00:10:56.559 --> 00:10:57.159 was talking about. 182 00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:58.240 So this took quite a while. 183 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:00.480 As he's running around, you can hear hear all of 184 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:04.320 this on the tape. So then he gets her on 185 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:08.320 the grass, he says, and when you once you see 186 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:13.960 the pictures, you can see there's this orange reddish rope. 187 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:16.120 It's like a ski rope, you know, like a water 188 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:21.840 ski kind of rope, and it's it's it's it's got 189 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:24.159 her such that you know, she's in this really kind 190 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:28.840 of contorted position, so her hands are behind her back 191 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:33.840 and her knees are bent. So the dispatcher says, well, 192 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:36.600 you know, is she alive, and he goes, I don't know. 193 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:39.240 So at one point he says, I don't know. Another 194 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:41.399 point he says, I don't think so, but she she 195 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:44.480 has him, you know, tells him to start doing compressions, 196 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:46.720 and he tells police later that he had already been 197 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:50.000 doing compressions because she says you can count out loud, 198 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:53.519 and he starts out twenty seven, twenty eight, twenty nine as. 199 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:54.080 They've been talking. 200 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:59.279 So, I mean, I didn't hear him doing any breathing. 201 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:02.559 I only listened to the tape once or twice in court. 202 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:07.200 But anyway, that was a little odd. But like I said, 203 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.279 if you look at the pictures, it's not a good 204 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:12.279 position to be doing compressions on somebody because you can't 205 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.480 get a proper can't get her lying down properly. So 206 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:22.679 the police come and the paramedics, and the paramedic touches 207 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:26.080 her jaw and it's cool to the touch, and he 208 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:28.120 can tell that rigor mortis has set in, and so 209 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:30.759 he says, you know, never mind, they're not going to 210 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:35.679 do CPR. So rigor mortis is a tricky thing. There's 211 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:38.720 so there's no you know, nobody would give a firm 212 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:42.039 Nobody at the Medical Examiner's office anyway, would give a 213 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:46.759 firm estimated time of death. So but generally speaking, it 214 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:50.480 had to be at least a couple hours, so you know, 215 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:56.440 different estimates have put her. The last known contact that 216 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.720 she had with anybody is on a phone record, and 217 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:05.600 it's her boyfriend Jonah, who calls her from his room. 218 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.759 He's staying at a place that's next door to the 219 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:12.519 hospital where the parents get to stay if their kids 220 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:17.399 are in ICEU. And he calls her at twelve fifty am, 221 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:20.519 and Adam calls nine one one at six forty eight am. 222 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.919 So that's the general window of time, although she didn't 223 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.200 answer the phone when Jonah called, so we don't know 224 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:30.639 for sure, but that's the last time somebody tried to 225 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:33.320 contact her. The last time anyone actually did talk to 226 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.360 her was her sister, who's also named Mary, which made 227 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:39.440 the book hard to write, going back and forth between 228 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:42.200 the Adam's girlfriend and the Rebecca's sister. 229 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:46.120 But right, they spoke. 230 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:50.240 Around I think tennish. So those are the that's the 231 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:50.840 time frame. 232 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:58.799 Now police talk to Adam soon after, and you talk 233 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:02.039 about them them not securing the guest house for about 234 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:06.320 three and a half hours. But you talk about Adam 235 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:10.480 saying right away that he thought that Rebecca had killed herself, 236 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.919 and that's what he indicated even in that nine to 237 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.919 one one call. Right, So what is exactly what do 238 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:23.159 police determine from this scene and in their mind what 239 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:29.720 would be the reason for Rebecca to commit suicide? 240 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:34.440 Well, okay, so the thing that's interesting about this is 241 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:39.759 the Coronattle Police are the ones who initially responded, and 242 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.480 that's the same agency that came two days earlier to 243 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.240 respond to another nine to one one call from the 244 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.720 same house when Rebecca found Max on the flour. 245 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:55.960 You know, after apparently he you know, we should probably 246 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:59.399 go through that because this is related. Okay, So the 247 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.120 reason the reason they thought that was because there was 248 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.519 this other incident that came two days earlier, so I'll 249 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:10.559 run through that first. So Rebecca and Jonah and Max 250 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:14.159 and Rebecca's little sister, she's only thirteen, and she had 251 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:17.639 flown out for like a month long visit. Shes the 252 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:21.840 rest of the Rebecca's family in Missouri. She came out 253 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:29.039 and they were going to go to the zoo after Max, 254 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:31.240 you know, cleaned his room and what have you, and 255 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:33.639 she took a shower. So Jonah was at the gym 256 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:39.039 and Rebecca was downstairs. This is what she told police later. 257 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:44.320 She said she was going to the bathroom. Essentially in 258 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:47.120 the bathroom downstairs. It says a mansion was like three 259 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:53.039 or four stories high, and there's the bedrooms where Max 260 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:55.679 and her sister were staying, and were one or two 261 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:59.159 floors up there on different levels. And then there's a 262 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:06.480 chandelier it's hanging from from above. So you know, it's 263 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.840 quite a big foyer with a big and a big 264 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:12.919 tall space there. And I've never been inside, so I've 265 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.480 only been able to see pictures. I can't describe it perfectly, 266 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:18.919 but that's the best I can do. So anyway, Rebecca's 267 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.080 in the bathroom and she hears the dog barking. She's 268 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:24.960 got a waymran I don't even now pronounce this Waymraner 269 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:31.080 fourteen months really big dog, very big enough to apparently 270 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:34.200 knock an adult over. And Max is only, you know, six, 271 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:40.000 so very boisterous dog, and the dog is barking, and 272 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:44.120 she hears a crash. So she comes out and there's 273 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:47.879 Max lying on the floor at the bottom of a staircase. 274 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:49.919 And the staircase is one of those ones that kind 275 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:53.200 of dog legs up all the way up to the 276 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.759 second floor, and I think that's where the chandelier was 277 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:58.840 hanging on from the ceiling of the second floor, so 278 00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:00.960 that's all open in there, and there's this, you know, 279 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:05.559 it's a you know, nineteen oh eight house designed by 280 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:11.799 John D. Spreckles of the Sugar Fortune. So she comes out. 281 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:14.839 She sees Max lying on the floor surrounded by pieces 282 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.599 of this chandelier which has broken and fallen and is 283 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:23.200 lying next to him, and there's a soccer ball and 284 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:27.079 a razor scooter lying the razor scooters lying over one 285 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:32.720 of his shins. So there's lots of different variants, not 286 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:37.279 variants variable, sorry thinking of COVID, A lot of different 287 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:43.599 variables of what could have happened but basically she tells 288 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:46.720 she says, you know, when they ask her and Jonah 289 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:49.440 asks her, and everyone asks her what happened, she says, 290 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:51.759 I don't know. I didn't see it. I just don't know, 291 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:56.039 and so she thinks, you know, he probably fell from 292 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.160 the second story landing up where the bedroom is. So 293 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:02.759 that's what she says, I don't know, he fell from 294 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:04.119 the bedroom. And then they're like, well, well did you 295 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:06.640 see it? How do you know that you know? So 296 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.920 this is where things start getting messy because Max's mother, Dina, 297 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:15.480 she doesn't like Rebecca, she doesn't get along with Rebecca, 298 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.920 she doesn't trust Rebecca. She's had lots of conflicts with Rebecca, 299 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.160 which has caused a lot of problems and tension in 300 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:29.559 the relationship between Rebecca and Jonah. And so after this happens, 301 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:33.480 Dina is convinced that Rebecca somehow has something to do 302 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:37.200 with this, and so she's complaining to people at the hospital, 303 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.799 to the doctor. But I know that when the police 304 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.119 came that first time, there were a number of the 305 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.400 same officers who responded to the second nine one one call, 306 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:51.039 so you know, they already had it in their head 307 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:53.440 that she was there when this little boy fell or 308 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:55.799 whatever happened, and they had to rush them to the hospital. 309 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.319 So you have that in their minds that they were 310 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:01.960 literally some of the same peace and saw that she 311 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.839 was upset. Okay, obviously she was the only adult in 312 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.559 the house. He was in her care, and this terrible 313 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:09.839 thing happened to this little boy who she loved so 314 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.680 much like her own son. She was taking care of him. 315 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:16.440 So when they show up the second time, they already 316 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.559 have it in their head that she was the one 317 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:20.759 who called nine to one one, or actually her little 318 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:22.640 sister was the one who called. That she was shouting 319 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:25.640 out to the dispatcher the entire time, and she said 320 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:28.960 she was giving the little boy CPR. But it's actually 321 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:31.960 written in one of the reports that none of the 322 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:35.759 I think it was a paramedics report that said nobody 323 00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:39.000 saw her doing CPR when they arrived, So that has 324 00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:44.440 been also an issue of some contention. So basically they 325 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.480 have it in their head that she's upset. But there 326 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:51.519 was also a psychologist who was doing a ride along 327 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:54.480 with one of the police on the day of Max's 328 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:59.200 nine one one call, and she later was asked to 329 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:02.680 write AP she said, I didn't you know she was upset. 330 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.279 She was understandably upset this had happened, but she didn't 331 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:10.920 seem depressed. She didn't seem suicidal. So to answer your question, 332 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:16.240 you know, initially Coronado called in the Sheriff's department because 333 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:19.000 they thought it was a suspicious death, and so they 334 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:21.920 called out the homicide team. So the homicide team is 335 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:27.640 the unit that responded. And so when Adam immediately said 336 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:31.799 I got a girl hung herself in the guesthouse, you know, 337 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:37.359 I didn't hear them confronting him really about that, and 338 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.279 I asked questions. You know, this is years later. I 339 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:43.480 should also say that I was not allowed to come 340 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:46.400 to the news conference that they had when they announced 341 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:49.640 that it was a suicide, which was about seven weeks later, 342 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.279 because I don't have a press pass anymore in San Diego, 343 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.440 because I am not a member of the working media, 344 00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:00.200 and even though I write these stories in Fire are 345 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.720 more depth than any of the actual working media, they 346 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:05.880 just don't let me come to these They didn't let 347 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:08.240 me come to the two news conferences they've had during 348 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.359 this case, which at the time I thought was pretty 349 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:16.799 strange because I had a previous case. The John Gardner 350 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.759 case where you've talked to me before the book Lost Girls. 351 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:22.079 They let me come to that one, but they didn't 352 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:24.119 let me come to this one. So I was suspicious 353 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:26.680 about that too. You know, why wouldn't they let me 354 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.160 come and ask questions? So I couldn't hear you know 355 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.359 how they answered that. But years later they basically just said, well, 356 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.640 you know, we don't decide somebody's a suspect and then 357 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:40.519 find evidence to fit that scenario. We see where the 358 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:44.160 evidence takes us. Okay, Well, seems like though when you 359 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:49.079 listen to the interviews with the detectives that they did. 360 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:52.039 I have the whole investigative file here that a source 361 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:57.759 gave me early on and not the Sheriff's department, some 362 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:02.480 other sources, and I could hear, you know, just from 363 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.400 how the detectives were talking to other suspects that within 364 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:08.200 a few days they had pretty much decided that Adam 365 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:14.759 was cleared, and so Jonah's whereabouts were pretty much you know, 366 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:18.039 they decided Adam was I'm sorry, they decided Jonah was 367 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:21.079 where he said he was at the place next door 368 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:25.640 is how the Ross McDonald's house, and that Dina who 369 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:28.200 did not get along with Rebecca and was upset about 370 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:32.119 what happened to Max. That she was at the hospital 371 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:37.079 as well, and it says in the nursing notes that 372 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:41.720 she and Jonah were talking to the doctor at ten 373 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.720 thirty eight pm the night before when there was a 374 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:48.319 witness who saw someone who he thought was Dina at 375 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:50.920 the house the night before. It turned out to be 376 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.079 her sister, according to the Sheriff's department, and according to 377 00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:59.240 the woman herself, her name is Nina Romano. So there 378 00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:03.039 was a lot of suspicion and a lot of it, 379 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:10.160 you know, about Rebecca being involved in Max's fall, and 380 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.599 you know, they were immediately suspicious that she had something 381 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.440 more to do with it, and maybe that's why she 382 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.359 committed suicide, because she felt guilty, not just because he failed, 383 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:24.079 but because maybe she had something to do with it. 384 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:28.359 Now that's never been proven by anybody, but that's just 385 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:35.359 you know, the moms and the sisters suspicions. So to 386 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:39.039 answer your question, I don't know why they decided that 387 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:44.240 Adam was cleared so soon. He took a light detector 388 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:50.519 test and it was inconclusive and the examiner decided, however, 389 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:54.119 that he was telling the truth. Now, other outside experts 390 00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:57.960 have since looked at the same results and said, no, 391 00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:02.200 he was being deceptive. So, you know, there's a lot 392 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:05.200 of outside experts who've looked at the evidence in this 393 00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:09.119 case and who've looked at, you know, the decisions made 394 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:11.799 by the sheriff's department, and they just don't agree. But 395 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:16.920 the sheriff's department decided that it was suicide. 396 00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:21.279 What about the idea that Jonah, being this very very 397 00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:26.039 wealthy person and influential person in this very very quiet community, 398 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:28.880 say he had had a murder in twelve years, What 399 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:33.400 about the idea that he had some kind of undue 400 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:37.880 influence over the investigator's decisions regarding the suicide. 401 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:38.160