1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,839 Speaker 1: Hi, this is doctor Russell Bourne from Jupiter, Florida and 2 00:00:06,879 --> 00:00:10,880 I play at Jonas's Landing Country Club. Welcome to Golf Smarter, Ahi. 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,279 This is Until the singer from East London, South Africa, 4 00:00:14,359 --> 00:00:17,239 and I play at Westbank Golf Club, Canabi Golf Clubs 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,519 and all the other beautiful golf clubs in the area. 6 00:00:19,719 --> 00:00:22,879 This is Golf Smarter and number one and twenty three. 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: I feel like if you asked me as a twenty 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:26,920 four to twenty five year old, I would say no, 9 00:00:27,079 --> 00:00:28,960 I got to go to the tour. But sitting here 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,399 as a thirty year old that's married and thinking about 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,799 family and kids, that'd be hard to say no to. 12 00:00:35,119 --> 00:00:37,600 Where I'm at right now, live isn't knocking on my door. 13 00:00:37,679 --> 00:00:39,920 I mean, I was a top three hundred player eighteen 14 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,200 months ago, but where I'm currently sitting that. 15 00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 3: That would be pretty tempting. 16 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,039 Speaker 2: When you're playing persons that are a hundredth of that 17 00:00:46,679 --> 00:00:49,799 pg Tour Canada, which is why you see a lot 18 00:00:49,799 --> 00:00:51,960 of PGA tour US had to come out and become 19 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,119 much more prevalent of getting and keeping talent, because if 20 00:00:56,159 --> 00:00:58,560 you waive a ten million dollar contract to a top 21 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,960 five college player, it's pretty hard to say no to versus, Hey, 22 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,399 you're gonna have to go through Q school. If you 23 00:01:03,439 --> 00:01:05,760 don't have it for that week, try again next year, 24 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,680 or go through the corn Ferry Tour and make way 25 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:08,280 less money. 26 00:01:08,359 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 3: You know John Rob and Scotti Scheffler. 27 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,439 Speaker 2: I mean, John Ron was a much better player, much 28 00:01:12,439 --> 00:01:14,599 more recognized three four years ago. 29 00:01:14,799 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 3: Scotty's one of. 30 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: The greatest players to ever touch a club, and that's 31 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,439 what people are going to remember from this generation. His dominance. 32 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,000 John Ron is making way more money, but no one cares. 33 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,439 Speaker 1: You don't have to play perfect golf to play great golf. 34 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,680 With pro golfer and college standout Chris Petefish, this is 35 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,719 Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf 36 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,719 minds to help you lower your score and raise your 37 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:48,439 golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome to the 38 00:01:48,439 --> 00:01:53,239 Golf Smarter Podcast. Chris, Hey, Fred, good to see you man. Yeah, you, 39 00:01:53,319 --> 00:01:55,640 thank you so much for reaching out to me. I'm 40 00:01:55,879 --> 00:02:00,640 fascinated when I have guests on that say I think 41 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,560 I'd be I'd be a valuable asset to the Golf 42 00:02:03,599 --> 00:02:07,760 Smarter Podcast. And so you sent me a bio and 43 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,240 it's like, oh, yeah, I agree with you. You will 44 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:15,080 be tell me what you're up to these days. You're 45 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,479 coaching and playing a tournament golf or what doing what 46 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:20,280 I am? 47 00:02:20,439 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeh, So I'm playing at PGA Tour America's right now, 48 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,039 formerly pg Tour Canada. 49 00:02:25,759 --> 00:02:27,319 Speaker 3: So yeah, I've been playing professional golf. 50 00:02:27,199 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: For eight years now, and I played two of them 51 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:34,120 up in Canada and then kind of lost a year 52 00:02:34,159 --> 00:02:36,560 or two in Covid which I still had status up there, 53 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,520 but everyone was frozen at the time. I got my 54 00:02:39,719 --> 00:02:44,000 Corn Ferry card and a twenty twenty one. I played 55 00:02:44,039 --> 00:02:47,599 out there for three years, twenty two, twenty three, twenty four. 56 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,360 I was one shot away from my tour card in 57 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,240 twenty twenty three. But I mean there's so many stories 58 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:54,840 like that, you. 59 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,759 Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, but I want to hear yours. You know. 60 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:02,479 Speaker 2: I was having an okay and then I showed up 61 00:03:02,479 --> 00:03:05,759 in Utah and this was I think early August, end 62 00:03:05,759 --> 00:03:08,520 of July of twenty three, and I just had an 63 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,560 incredible week. I had one of the only I think 64 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,039 ten or eleven events in PGA Tour history or Corn 65 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,719 Fairy Tour history without a bogie for seventy two holes whoa. Yes, 66 00:03:20,759 --> 00:03:22,800 I didn't record a bogie the entire week, just played 67 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,840 pitched the perfect game. I think I was twenty four under, 68 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,159 twenty three under for the week, and I was sitting 69 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:33,039 in the clubhouse, I think up by two shots, and 70 00:03:33,599 --> 00:03:35,800 you know, I had a pretty good shot at winning 71 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,280 the tournament, and there was only one guy that possibly 72 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:38,960 could catch up. 73 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:39,879 Speaker 3: It was Roger Sloan. 74 00:03:39,919 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: And credit to him, the guy I birdied three of 75 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,039 the last four holes to edge me out by a shot. 76 00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:49,400 I think he made like three two or three pots 77 00:03:49,439 --> 00:03:52,080 outside fifteen feet in a row, just like these are 78 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,240 pots have like you know, eighteen to twenty percent chance 79 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,080 of going in and they just kept going in. And 80 00:03:56,639 --> 00:03:58,080 so that was a little bit of a snake bitten, 81 00:03:58,159 --> 00:04:00,879 but it was, you know, such a high have such 82 00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:01,680 a great week, and. 83 00:04:02,759 --> 00:04:07,479 Speaker 1: You almost won that that tournament, that event, and yet 84 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,759 it prevented you from getting your card. 85 00:04:10,159 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: You know, if I had won that tournament, then yeah, 86 00:04:12,439 --> 00:04:15,159 I definitely I probably would have gotten my card, just 87 00:04:15,159 --> 00:04:17,160 based on how the points work. And I also finished 88 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,720 tied for second a month later at one of the 89 00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:23,639 Corporea Championship events at Ohio State, and I was in 90 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,480 a two way tie for second, and if I was 91 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:26,879 solo second. 92 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 3: That would have done as well. So it was really like. 93 00:04:28,759 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: One shot there or you know, Roger Slow, I'm not 94 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,519 going crazy in the last four holes. 95 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,439 Speaker 3: But I mean that's just how golf is, like. 96 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:41,439 Speaker 1: Right right, And so does that is that frustration kind 97 00:04:41,439 --> 00:04:45,120 of make you question what you're doing or you're just like, okay, 98 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,000 I'm that close, I can do this. 99 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,519 Speaker 2: I think you have to have gain confidence out of 100 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,800 that that I am that close, and it is like 101 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,439 I am doing the right things because I mean, at 102 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:55,959 the end of day, you want to play golf where 103 00:04:56,759 --> 00:04:59,360 I'm not going back and frustrated, Oh I should have 104 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,120 done this, I should on that, which is a part 105 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,560 of like what we'll talk about and playing strategic golf 106 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,160 and getting the most out of your game as you can. 107 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,240 And I think both of those situations like you know what, 108 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:09,920 I did what I could and I just I just 109 00:05:09,959 --> 00:05:10,399 got beat. 110 00:05:12,319 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you just play your game and if someone beat they. 111 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 3: Beat you, Yeah you got to shake their hand. 112 00:05:18,079 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 2: But so yeah, I'm still playing, you know up in 113 00:05:20,519 --> 00:05:23,639 Canada right now, as well as teaching and you know, 114 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,160 player performance coaching and really enjoy that as well. You know, 115 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,480 building a clientele, and it's it's really fun to go 116 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,199 back and teach. Not only I do have a lot 117 00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:37,600 of juniors mostly, but also you know, some professional players, 118 00:05:38,759 --> 00:05:41,399 guys that are trying to get back into it, and 119 00:05:41,439 --> 00:05:43,079 it's it's kind of fun just be able to teach 120 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,680 them everything that I wish I knew fifteen years ago 121 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,680 across this whole journey of how to play your best golf. 122 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: Interesting, but you also had an illustrious college career before 123 00:05:53,959 --> 00:05:55,160 you started going pro. 124 00:05:55,519 --> 00:05:57,519 Speaker 3: I did. I mean, I guess if we're going back, 125 00:05:57,639 --> 00:05:58,319 you know, I was. 126 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,879 Speaker 2: I was like a top five I've high school, recruited 127 00:06:01,959 --> 00:06:04,759 my class in twenty fourteen, and obviously had a lot 128 00:06:04,759 --> 00:06:07,560 of options of where to play college golf. And I 129 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,079 was lucky enough that Georgia Tech also wanted me to 130 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,319 play for them, and so that's where I ended up 131 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:14,720 playing from twenty fourteen twenty eighteen. 132 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: And I did. I had a good career. 133 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 2: I you know, I was all acc and we had 134 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,040 a ton of great teams. I actually never was number 135 00:06:22,079 --> 00:06:25,360 one on the team, and just you know, I played 136 00:06:25,399 --> 00:06:28,160 all four years, but yeah, we had great teams, a 137 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,120 lot of success, and you know, I had a very solid. 138 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 3: Career, you'd say as a college player. 139 00:06:32,879 --> 00:06:37,319 Speaker 1: But is Georgia Tech known for their college program, I 140 00:06:37,319 --> 00:06:39,040 mean their golf program. 141 00:06:38,879 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, very very much so. 142 00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 2: I mean they're definitely one of the best better programs 143 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,079 in the last thirty years under under Bruce Eppler, and 144 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,680 they've won I can't even tell you how many ACC 145 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,800 championships they've won their conference. It's I mean, it's got 146 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,199 to be somewhere like around twenty. And yeah, just just 147 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,240 a great program. A lot of great professionals that come 148 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,720 out of there. Obviously you talk about Bobby Jones like 149 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,360 way back in the day, but you know, Matt Cooch 150 00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:07,360 or Stewart, seeing David davall at, a lot of great 151 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,800 prestige coming out of that program. 152 00:07:11,839 --> 00:07:12,839 Speaker 3: And you know. 153 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,399 Speaker 2: There was a place that I want to go, knowing 154 00:07:14,439 --> 00:07:16,800 that I wanted to play professional golf, and you know, 155 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,360 Bruce knows how to get players ready to do that. 156 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: And what do you feel is your window of opportunity 157 00:07:23,879 --> 00:07:28,439 to get to the show, to getting you know, get 158 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,120 to the tour where you feel like, Okay, if I 159 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,279 give it X amount of years and I don't do it, 160 00:07:36,439 --> 00:07:39,480 then maybe I should just be focusing on instruction. And 161 00:07:39,519 --> 00:07:42,279 things like that. Yeah, have you put that on yourself 162 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,560 or you don't even think about that? 163 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: No, it's definitely stuff I think about. I mean, that's 164 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,959 part of the reason I'm doing some coaching now and like, 165 00:07:48,079 --> 00:07:52,319 you know, enjoying that almost as much as playing myself 166 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,360 and being out there. You know, I am thirty years old. 167 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,639 I got married thirteen months ago, which has been a 168 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,199 blessing and congratulations. 169 00:07:59,279 --> 00:07:59,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate it. 170 00:08:00,439 --> 00:08:03,759 Speaker 2: And so it's definitely I think everyone has that question 171 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,240 of like, man, how much time am I going to 172 00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:05,959 give myself? 173 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: How good can I get this game? 174 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,199 Speaker 2: And it's something that I think growing up was always 175 00:08:11,279 --> 00:08:13,319 just how good can I get? I'm going to compete 176 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,240 against myself because golf is not a game where you 177 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:19,279 can compete against other players, not in the sense of 178 00:08:19,319 --> 00:08:22,319 physically like you can if you're you know, in tennis 179 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:25,519 or whatnot. But it's for me, it's always been a 180 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,519 competition of like, how good can I get? And if 181 00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:32,200 I feel like that I'm plateauing or not getting better, 182 00:08:32,279 --> 00:08:34,759 then that I feel like that's when n if I'm 183 00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:36,320 not on the tour, then that's kind of when hey, 184 00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:38,559 you know, I've done what I can. 185 00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: If you've only been married thirteen months, I got to 186 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,039 believe that your spouse is totally in on this. Oh yeah, 187 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,399 or do you ever hear her toast tapping like, Okay, 188 00:08:48,879 --> 00:08:52,039 it's not working, not go no. 189 00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:53,919 Speaker 3: No, She's fully supportive of me. So that's good. 190 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, good for you, Good for you. And what about 191 00:08:57,519 --> 00:09:00,519 your college team. Anybody that we would recognize their name 192 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,320 that came out of the program that you played on 193 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:03,240 for four years? 194 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean starting with when I was a freshman. 195 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,000 All A sneyder Jeens was a senior, you know, he 196 00:09:09,039 --> 00:09:11,480 was number one ammer in the world and he is 197 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,440 a reserve on Live right now. But I mean, loads 198 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,639 of talent there. Obviously one of the best college players ever. 199 00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:21,720 And andrews Albertson played quite a few years on PGA 200 00:09:21,799 --> 00:09:23,240 tour seth Reeves did. 201 00:09:23,759 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 3: Vince Whaley's out there right now. 202 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,639 Speaker 2: He was someone that wasn't like the hot shot coming 203 00:09:29,639 --> 00:09:31,879 out of high school and then just kept getting better 204 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,399 and better and just been impressive to watch him, you know, 205 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,159 in his career, and then some of the young guys 206 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,639 and Andy oltree he won the US SAM he's on 207 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,879 Live right now, trying to think Strafaci, he won the 208 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,360 US SAMs and there's there's been a ton of great players, 209 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:53,559 and you know, even from the four years I was there. 210 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you brought this up, and I'm really fascinated because 211 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,799 of the position you're in that I want to bring 212 00:10:00,879 --> 00:10:05,279 this up where you are getting closed, You're like, you 213 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,559 can taste the tour. You know it's right there. You 214 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,320 just you know, you just got to play your best 215 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,480 game and hope that nobody goes nuts in the last 216 00:10:14,519 --> 00:10:21,039 four holes of a tournament. But Live is there as well, 217 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,799 And if they were to throw a bunch of money 218 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:29,440 at you just play exhibition golf, which at this point 219 00:10:29,519 --> 00:10:36,759 Live is still exhibition golf. Where would your mindset go? 220 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,039 And I'm sure you've thought about this, and it's not 221 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,200 the first time it's coming up to you. Where you know, 222 00:10:42,879 --> 00:10:47,080 where do you sit down with your spouse and say, yeah, 223 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,559 maybe this is the better way to do this for 224 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,240 the future of our family, or no, I've got to 225 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,000 I've got to play on the tour to know that 226 00:10:55,039 --> 00:10:57,960 I can play with the best. Where are you and 227 00:10:58,039 --> 00:10:59,080 how does that sit? 228 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:00,799 Speaker 3: That's a good question. 229 00:11:00,879 --> 00:11:02,519 Speaker 2: I feel like if you asked me as a twenty 230 00:11:02,519 --> 00:11:05,879 four to twenty five year old, I would say no, I. 231 00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 3: Got to go to the tour. I gotta do this. 232 00:11:08,039 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 2: But sitting here as a thirty year old that's married 233 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,200 and thinking about family and kids and all that stuff 234 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,960 like that'd be hard to say no to because I mean, 235 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,159 where I'm at right now, live isn't knocking on my 236 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,039 door even as someone that was. I mean, I was 237 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,200 a top three hundred player, you know, eighteen months ago 238 00:11:24,399 --> 00:11:26,919 in the ficial golf rankings. But you know where I'm 239 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,679 currently sitting, that that would be pretty tempting when you're playing, 240 00:11:30,879 --> 00:11:34,080 you know, persons that are a hundredth of that, the 241 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,799 PGA Tour Canada, the America's events. So yeah, that would 242 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,600 be pretty pretty tempting and hard probably to say no to, 243 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,480 which is why you see a lot of you know, 244 00:11:44,519 --> 00:11:46,480 the PGA Tour US had to come out and become 245 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:51,559 much more prevalent of getting and keeping talent because if 246 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,759 you you know, you waive a ten million dollar contract 247 00:11:54,759 --> 00:11:58,879 to a top five college player, that's pretty hard to 248 00:11:58,919 --> 00:11:59,440 say no to. 249 00:11:59,639 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 3: Versus, hey, you're. 250 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 2: Gonna have to go through and go through Q school. 251 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,240 If you don't have it for that week, you know, 252 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,159 try again next year or go through the corn Ferry 253 00:12:07,159 --> 00:12:10,159 Tour and make way less money. Like you know, there's 254 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,840 there's so many good players that, like, it's hard to 255 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,399 blame if someone wants to take that, which even if 256 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,840 it's not like the dream of like you know, PGA 257 00:12:18,879 --> 00:12:21,200 Tour is a lot more meaningful golf. Like you know, 258 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,440 John Ram and Scotti Scheffler, those were names that were 259 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,440 I mean, John Ron was much better player, much more 260 00:12:28,279 --> 00:12:31,120 recognized three or four years ago. And now it's like 261 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,679 John Ron is making way more money, but no one cares. 262 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,840 Like Scotty's one of the greatest players to ever touch 263 00:12:35,879 --> 00:12:38,360 a club, and that's that's what people are right now 264 00:12:38,519 --> 00:12:41,639 going to remember from this generation is his dominance. 265 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,799 Speaker 1: That was a very thoughtful answer, and I really appreciate 266 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,240 you being open to talking about the live journey if 267 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,559 it was there, What would it take for you to 268 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,120 get there? Phone call? What would it take? You know, 269 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,159 what do you think it would take for maybe some 270 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,320 time getting that phone call, going, oh, we got to 271 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:08,960 consider this. 272 00:13:10,159 --> 00:13:11,159 Speaker 3: Gosh, that's a good question. 273 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 2: I mean, the easiest way to do it now would 274 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,039 be if I got in through their promotions event. 275 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,879 Speaker 3: Otherwise it's like the guys that. 276 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: Are getting invited there now or have had pretty good 277 00:13:21,879 --> 00:13:24,240 careers on the PGA Tour, So it's almost like a 278 00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:25,799 catch twenty two, Like I'd have to be on the 279 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,080 PGA Tour and having success out there for them to 280 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:28,960 get that phone call. 281 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: But the guys that you played with in college, they 282 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:33,759 did have. 283 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: They they went through their International Series, so they qualified 284 00:13:39,879 --> 00:13:43,679 their way on. Andy played incredible golf on the International Series, 285 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,360 which is like their feeder tour, their corn ferry tour 286 00:13:46,799 --> 00:13:50,360 where only one person gets elevated to Live and so 287 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,399 he played well through going through that tour, and then 288 00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:57,720 Allie got invited to the promotions event, which is I 289 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,960 think it's a Nabu Dhabi or something in December, but. 290 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 3: He he got that. 291 00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:04,639 Speaker 2: I think he came in like second or third, and 292 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:09,039 you know, qualified for the International Series because you have 293 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:12,120 to qualify just to get to the International Series, which 294 00:14:12,159 --> 00:14:14,879 is underneath the Lift. And then he won that first 295 00:14:14,879 --> 00:14:18,720 event in the International Series and then became a reserve. 296 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 3: For the Live Golf League. 297 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: So the easiest pathway for me to get there would 298 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:28,000 be through that, like their quote unquote Q School to 299 00:14:28,159 --> 00:14:30,240 then get onto their corn ferry. So it definitely is 300 00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:33,360 a process. Now where before I mean, because there's a 301 00:14:33,399 --> 00:14:36,519 woman number players, like, it's definitely tougher to the crack 302 00:14:36,559 --> 00:14:36,960 a spot. 303 00:14:37,559 --> 00:14:45,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So right now you're you're playing and you're coaching, 304 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,240 correct yep, And so where how do you split that 305 00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:55,440 time and focus on your game versus other people's games? 306 00:14:55,919 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? Obviously, you know, I got to put my client's 307 00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:01,840 needs first, like, you know, make sure that they're getting 308 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,000 what they need. And I love enjoy working with them 309 00:15:05,039 --> 00:15:07,279 and watching them play, and just like you know, I 310 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:09,200 feel like I'm a coach college coach, Like I'm tracking 311 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,360 all their leader boards and seeing how they're doing. And 312 00:15:11,799 --> 00:15:17,080 it's definitely a juggling act between you know, husband player coach. 313 00:15:17,799 --> 00:15:19,960 But honestly, it's kind of like a fun challenge for me, 314 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,440 Like I have to be very efficient with my time 315 00:15:24,039 --> 00:15:26,039 and I have to really practice what I preach, which 316 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,080 is like a lot of these college kids coming out 317 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,200 and playing against like they may be practicing and playing 318 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,639 more than me, but they're just not going to outsmart 319 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:33,440 me on the golf course. 320 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 3: Which is a lot of the stuff that I preach is. 321 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,639 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of like decade principles and in 322 00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:43,480 course strategy of just going back to some of the 323 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,320 events this summer of like you know, I've led two 324 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,879 of the fields and bogie avoidance, I've been top five 325 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,879 and most of them. It's just like I'm going to basically, 326 00:15:56,879 --> 00:15:58,600 I'm just not going to give shots away like that. 327 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,679 That is my goal, going to not make bogies, and 328 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,200 if I make enough berties, you know, so be it. 329 00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 3: That's how you can tend events and win events. 330 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,039 Speaker 2: But I'm just going to have to play very smart 331 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,919 and practice smart if I don't have as much time. 332 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:18,759 Speaker 1: We like golf smarter. Yeah, what's your superpower on the course? 333 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,559 What what is it that sets you apart from your competition? 334 00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:25,919 Speaker 2: Well, I would say as a player, yeah, yeah, as 335 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,879 a player, I would say a couple of things, like 336 00:16:27,919 --> 00:16:31,720 my mind obviously just being able to really be present 337 00:16:32,279 --> 00:16:36,759 and not get emotional when things go haywire, which they 338 00:16:36,799 --> 00:16:39,360 often do literally all the time. 339 00:16:40,039 --> 00:16:43,919 Speaker 3: And you know, I would say physical part of my game. 340 00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: If you an iron play, I'm just I'm really solry 341 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,639 with from like nine iron to five iron, just been 342 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,879 you know, Strosskin approach is somewhere I've been really good 343 00:16:52,919 --> 00:16:55,039 and so I do well on courses where it's it's 344 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,000 demanding into the greens, and there's a bigger penalty that 345 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,000 if you miss a green short sight, it's much hard 346 00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:02,000 to get up and down. I'll do a good job 347 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,320 of hitting lot of green So that's where a lot 348 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,960 of the bogie avoidance. It's easier to be good at 349 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,799 that when you're hitting a lost solid iron shots to 350 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,599 you know, eighteen twenty five feet. So that's that's part 351 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:14,759 of the reason why I do well with not making 352 00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:17,039 a ton of bogies. And I've actually done a better 353 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,559 in corn ferry events where the scores aren't super low 354 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:23,319 for that reason. 355 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:23,599 Speaker 1: You know. 356 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 2: Two, we've had a second and a third in events 357 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,839 where like you know, single digits won the event just 358 00:17:31,839 --> 00:17:34,400 because I was, you know, not making a ton of birdies. 359 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 3: I just wasn't making bogies and harder courses. 360 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: So and what's what's more, I mean, because we've heard 361 00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:43,200 Tiger talk about things like that, But to you, is 362 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,400 saving par and not making bogies more valuable than making birdies? 363 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:50,319 Speaker 3: For sure? 364 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the numbers would suggest that absolutely that 365 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,400 you know, sixty five seventy percent of your score is 366 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,200 attributed to how well can you avoid a bogie versus 367 00:18:00,319 --> 00:18:04,680 how many birdies you can make. And yeah, I think 368 00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:08,039 in a lot of understanding the principles of like I 369 00:18:08,079 --> 00:18:10,599 had to say this, but golf in general, just where 370 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,039 does scoring come from? And how do you avoid bogies? 371 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,880 Is something that isn't taught enough or emphasized enough. 372 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,559 Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about it. 373 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we talk everything from t shots to putting, 374 00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:26,759 but I think putting is a really easy one to 375 00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:30,880 talk about. Its low hanging fruit, and it's just the 376 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,839 capture rate of the hole I think is not talked 377 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,200 about enough. And and things I see even from announcers 378 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,960 on TV where you know, they're talking about, oh, I 379 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,960 can't believe he left this put short, or he's got 380 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,720 a really good look and it's like an eighteen foot slider. 381 00:18:43,759 --> 00:18:46,200 I'm like, that's just not a high percentage putt to 382 00:18:46,319 --> 00:18:49,920 make in the capturate of the hole, which you know, 383 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,839 I think it was either Loose Stagner or someone I 384 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,079 saw them tweet this out. It was a great photo 385 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,680 of like, you know, how big is actually the hole 386 00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,240 based on how far past you hit this putt, because 387 00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:02,279 I mean the hole is four point two five inches, 388 00:19:02,319 --> 00:19:04,319 but it's not that big if you're hitting a four 389 00:19:04,319 --> 00:19:06,440 feet past the hole, Like the ability for the ball 390 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,400 to actually go in the hole is significantly significantly smaller 391 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:13,400 if you're hitting putts four feet past the hole. And 392 00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:17,119 I think what people don't realize is like you actually 393 00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:19,680 have to leave some put short in order to make 394 00:19:19,759 --> 00:19:22,279 it make more putts. And it sounds kind of productive. 395 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: Whoa yeah, like you've got a lee. I mean I 396 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,759 played with someone. Really is like at my club when 397 00:19:29,759 --> 00:19:31,920 I play, if I leave a putt short, I owed 398 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,480 everyone on the group for five bucks each. You know, 399 00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:38,599 it's like, but you're saying strategically. 400 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: Just math, ye, you have to leave some put short 401 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:44,839 from like I'm talking anywhere outside fifteen feet, because again, 402 00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:49,559 you have to think of putts as like a dispersion. 403 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,680 So you know, if I hit one hundred puts from 404 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,839 twenty five feet, I'm not gonna hit every put within 405 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,599 two feet, Like there's gonna be a four foot window 406 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,319 of putts, and I have to place that four foot 407 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,759 window in the appropriate place where you know, I'm giving 408 00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:06,039 myself the best chance for as many putts ago as possible. 409 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,000 But I'm not going to three putt because that's the 410 00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:11,680 easiest way to lose shots is to three putts asolutely. 411 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,839 And that's the thing when you think of the capture 412 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,720 of the hole, Like, if you're hitting putts three four 413 00:20:15,759 --> 00:20:18,119 five feet past the hole, you've made the hole so 414 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,119 small that A you're not making those even if they're 415 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,680 a well struck putt, they're probably going to lip out 416 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,680 because you've made the hole so small. But B you're 417 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,079 just going to you will miss three four and five 418 00:20:28,079 --> 00:20:32,119 foot ers occasionally it will happen. And so if you 419 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,960 don't leave putts short, it's like people say, Okay, I 420 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,960 can just hit within this two foot window of you know, 421 00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:39,519 at the hole or just past the hole, Like that's 422 00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:40,079 not possible. 423 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:41,319 Speaker 3: We're not robots. You know. 424 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 2: Golf is hard unless you're twenty fifteen Jordan Speed, Like 425 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,680 he may be the only person I can think of 426 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,839 that hit every pie in a two foot window because 427 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,400 he made putts from twenty to twenty five feet I've 428 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,640 never seen before anyone's ever been seen four in golf. 429 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,000 But for the rest of people, like, yeah, you're going 430 00:20:57,079 --> 00:20:59,000 to have a four foot window from twenty twenty five 431 00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:01,079 feet if you're a good play you know, it might 432 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:01,799 be six feet. 433 00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:03,519 Speaker 3: Uh. For the average player. 434 00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 2: So it's like you're gonna have if you don't leave 435 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,839 any put short and you have a five foot window, 436 00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:10,680 then you're just gonna have putts be at the hole 437 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,480 five feet past. Everything from three to five feet past 438 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,319 the hole doesn't really have a shot of going in. 439 00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:18,160 You will three put those and so like, yeah, you 440 00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:20,680 have to leave some short in order for the putts 441 00:21:20,759 --> 00:21:22,720 you go past the hole actually have a chance to 442 00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:23,079 go in. 443 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: And why is that? Why is a putt that goes 444 00:21:26,279 --> 00:21:30,279 five feet past more difficult to make than a putt 445 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:31,319 that's five feet short. 446 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 2: It's not it's not that it's five feet short. Like, 447 00:21:34,519 --> 00:21:36,960 I'm not suggesting you hit five feet short. I'm suggesting 448 00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:39,960 if you have this window of putts that you hit, 449 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,279 Let's say you hit one hundred puts from twenty feet, Like, 450 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,599 ideally I want to leave my window between one foot. 451 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 3: Short and four feet past. 452 00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 2: I'm not saying, like, you know, leave it five feet 453 00:21:50,839 --> 00:21:53,039 If you're gonna leave a putt five feet I'd rather 454 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,480 hit five feet past. It might hit the hole, slow 455 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,039 it down, or you get to see the read on 456 00:21:57,079 --> 00:21:57,680 the way through. 457 00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: But and that's a really important thing. Seeing the read 458 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,119 on the way through. If you miss the putt and 459 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,279 it goes past, keep your eye on it, right for sure. 460 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:06,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, don't. 461 00:22:06,839 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: You're gonna learn a. 462 00:22:07,559 --> 00:22:11,039 Speaker 2: Lot, you will, Yes, and so yeah, when it comes 463 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:13,960 back to like potting, it's like, you know, avoiding three 464 00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:16,440 putts from outside twenty feet is one of the fastest 465 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,079 ways to save a shot or two or three around, 466 00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:21,119 you know, depending on the type of player, because we 467 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,880 spend so much time like oh, I'm really trying to 468 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,079 make this putt, and it's like, no, we really need 469 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,920 to just have as good speed and if that means 470 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,759 leaving some one or two feet short, be happy, go 471 00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:31,359 in and tap it in stress free. 472 00:22:33,079 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 473 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, I love it. You've mentioned capture 474 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:39,200 rate a multiple times at this point, and I've never 475 00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:42,960 heard that term. Can you explain what that means? Capture rate? 476 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like imagine a putt that hangs on 477 00:22:46,039 --> 00:22:49,440 the lip and then falls in you know circle like 478 00:22:49,559 --> 00:22:52,640 you know Tiger Woods is chip and five like that 479 00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:55,720 is using the maximum amount of the hole to have 480 00:22:55,799 --> 00:22:57,599 the ball go in, and you can almost think of it. 481 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,359 I think of it almost like an NBA shot, where 482 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,160 like if you have a three point shot with the 483 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,799 perfect arc like Steph Curry. He's using basically the most 484 00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:09,519 amount of the basket you can for it to go 485 00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:12,319 in of the hoop, you know, for it to go 486 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,759 in versus someone that comes in there like a line drive, 487 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,359 someone that's not a good three point here. I'm thinking 488 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,759 like Russell Westbrook, Andre Robson back in the day, those 489 00:23:20,759 --> 00:23:22,799 guy there are three in d specials. There just aren't 490 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,000 a good three point shot if it's coming in fast 491 00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:28,000 and low, like you're not using a lot of that 492 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,559 hoop to go in. And that's the same thing in putting, 493 00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:32,599 and like if you're coming in with three four five 494 00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:34,599 feet past the hole, you are the guy that's just 495 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,599 throwing line drives at the basket and it's just unlikely 496 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,200 to go in unless it's perfect. 497 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: Interesting, Oh, I love this. Keep going. Do you ever 498 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,880 use the hole as like a clock and going okay, 499 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,119 I need to come in at four o'clock here if 500 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,000 you're where you're standing at six o'clock on the on 501 00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:57,799 the face of the clock, and I want my ball 502 00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:00,559 to break, and it's you know, looking what I have 503 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,920 here as the break I see the ball going at 504 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,400 at four four thirty. Do you is that one of 505 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,240 your strategies that you use and teach. 506 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 3: I have used that before. 507 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,319 Speaker 2: I think I'm just I'm an aamepoint guy, and so 508 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,680 you know, I'll get my read using my feet and 509 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,799 then once I have my line, it's really about the 510 00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:22,720 speed and seeing if just hoping that the hole gets 511 00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:25,519 in the way mm, because I mean, if I have 512 00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:27,440 good speed, then I'm just going to make the hole 513 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,920 as big as I possibly can. And you know, I 514 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,920 think otherwise you start thinking about the clock, which is fine, 515 00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:38,720 like you know, Aim small, miss Small, but I think 516 00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:40,920 I think if I started thinking about the clock too much, 517 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,400 then I'll kind of lose sight on the speed. 518 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,519 Speaker 1: Are you familiar You're you know, you're down in Georgia. 519 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,839 Are you familiar with Eric Alpenfels at Pinehurst, head instructor 520 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,000 at Pinehurst. I'm not, okay, So we did an episode 521 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,039 with him recently about his book Instinct Putting, which came 522 00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:09,599 out I think it a decade ago, and I've been 523 00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:12,440 talking a lot about it because it's such a radical thought. 524 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,720 But it's really makes a lot of sense. And I 525 00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:19,440 know there's a lot of things in golf that don't 526 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,400 make a lot of sense, but we do it anyway, 527 00:25:22,319 --> 00:25:25,720 and his whole theory on instinct putting is looking at 528 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,759 the hole when you're putting. 529 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 2: I'm a huge but yeah, absolutely it got me really yeah. 530 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,359 I mean it just has to be athletic. Think about 531 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,279 a free throw shooter like he when he's dribbling, You're 532 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,200 not looking at the ball, You're looking at the basket. 533 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,240 You're looking at the target. 534 00:25:39,559 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: And I talk about that all the time. It is 535 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,680 like the simplest one to think of. You know, we 536 00:25:43,759 --> 00:25:46,319 talk about, you know, shooting a basket, throwing a football, 537 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,319 throwing a baseball, hitting a baseball, all these things. Cornhole 538 00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:52,640 is the easiest way to explain it to somebody. It's 539 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,240 like you wouldn't look at your hand when you're throwing 540 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,039 the bean. 541 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,759 Speaker 3: Bag, right, Yeah, No, you have to be athletic. 542 00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 2: And that's something where putting is probably not probably, but 543 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,119 it has been the weakness of my game that I 544 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,039 think it has helped me back. Is like when I put well, 545 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,640 I'm like top ten, top fifteen contending. And that is 546 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,119 something that I've struggled with because I want to think 547 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,599 internally and think about, you know, how I'm putting it. 548 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,200 And it's definitely a constant battle for me to like 549 00:26:18,839 --> 00:26:20,559 look at the target, and it's something I have to 550 00:26:20,599 --> 00:26:21,880 keep reinforcing to this day. 551 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 3: But it does. It certainly helps a lot. 552 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 2: I can't you know, express how important is to look 553 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,720 at the whole more because that is the goalt and 554 00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:30,240 also going to help your speed. 555 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, do you ever look at the whole 556 00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:34,160 while you're putting or do you go back bring your 557 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,039 eyes back to the ball. 558 00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:37,079 Speaker 2: I bring my eyes back to the ball. You know, 559 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,319 I can't really speak it and do do what he 560 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,279 does with the short punt. 561 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 3: So since this. 562 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: Book is all about yeah, it's fascinating and it's not 563 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,000 something he's like, oh, I'm going to go try that. No, no, no, 564 00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:47,799 you've got to work on it. It takes time and 565 00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:50,680 you do practice, you got and you got to trust it. 566 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,119 And he talks about your athletic intuition, which you were 567 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,039 kind of alluding to the same thing is doing that 568 00:26:58,759 --> 00:27:03,440 and it just you know, locking yourself into that. Also 569 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:05,359 when you're doing it and you're looking at the hole 570 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,559 and we're just saying, let's a four or five foot putt, 571 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:10,599 and you're looking at a very specific spot that you're 572 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,799 aiming for in the hole, and you keep looking at that, 573 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,920 you eliminate the head gain of mechanics and you don't 574 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,799 have to worry about lifting your head because it's already lifted. 575 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:26,160 That's true, but it's like eliminating the mechanics or the 576 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,920 worry of mechanics would happen. And I know that that's 577 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,480 always been an issue for me. When I'm putting, especially 578 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,319 on short putts, it's like, oh my hands, Oh I 579 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,599 didn't I wasn't, you know, holding the putter, elevating it 580 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,200 off the ground a little bit, and I didn't do 581 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,640 that and didn't do this. But by doing, you know, 582 00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:48,599 using this instinct putting, now I'm eliminating a lot of 583 00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:51,839 that and getting a lot more longer putts. 584 00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:53,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's good stuff. You think I have some 585 00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:55,240 of the best pawers of the world. They're not usually 586 00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:58,000 the ones that have long routines. They're not the ones 587 00:27:58,039 --> 00:27:59,599 standing over the ball. They're the ones that are like 588 00:27:59,599 --> 00:28:02,960 taking one or two looks they're hitting it because they're 589 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:03,440 just athletic. 590 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 3: They're in a flow state. They're not thinking about how 591 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:06,359 to hit. 592 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,599 Speaker 2: There's like, oh, there's a target, there's cool hit it, 593 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,440 and it's just you know, think of brand Santeker. I 594 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,920 think of a couple of the guys that are incredible putters, 595 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,279 like even that play with Robbie Shelton, Braden Thornberrier, Like 596 00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:22,200 they're so automatic with their putting and it's very athletic 597 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,079 and flowy, interesting. 598 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: And so when you're playing competitively you talked about, you 599 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,799 said earlier, it's tough to outsmart me on the course. 600 00:28:35,079 --> 00:28:39,680 So it's just not the physical element, the mechanics of 601 00:28:39,799 --> 00:28:43,400 your game that makes you an elite player. 602 00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:45,039 Speaker 3: Correct. 603 00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean at the end of the day, golf 604 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,920 is a game, and the more you understand the rules 605 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,119 of the game and how golf is scored, like, the 606 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,079 better you're gonna play and the more consistent, the more 607 00:28:58,119 --> 00:29:00,640 you're gonna get out of your own game, I should say, 608 00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:04,519 And I almost kind of related to a very complicated 609 00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:06,759 game of blackjack, Like there's just a set of rules 610 00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:09,039 and probabilities that you need to live by on the 611 00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:13,000 golf course to just take the emotion out of it 612 00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:18,359 and make good decisions over and over again. And yeah, 613 00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:22,559 it's really helped me a get the most out of 614 00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:26,160 my game. But also be like it makes golf more 615 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,240 fun because you're not after round, just thinking, oh, man, 616 00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:29,880 what an idiot? 617 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,559 Speaker 3: Why did I do that? I just wasted this. 618 00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 2: I felt like I should have shot lower a lot 619 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,880 of my rounds, like you know what I shot, what 620 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,960 I should have shot, and you know if I went 621 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,759 and shot you know, seventy three or seventy two, and 622 00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:43,319 it's like, all right, let's go work on some mechanics 623 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,559 or go work on a few things. But like, you 624 00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:48,319 don't need to play like at a competitive level, you 625 00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:51,279 don't need to play perfect golf to play great golf. 626 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,079 You understand, you need to know how to understand how 627 00:29:54,079 --> 00:29:58,119 to manage you know your strategy and manage your golf game. 628 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,599 But I've played a ton of grit eight tournaments in 629 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,319 great golf with like, man, my swing doesn't feel great 630 00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:05,839 and I have a miss, but I'm going to play it, 631 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,599 and I'm gonna center my shot pattern and I'm gonna 632 00:30:08,599 --> 00:30:09,240 play with what I have. 633 00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:13,799 Speaker 1: I think you just came up with the title of 634 00:30:13,839 --> 00:30:15,880 the episode. You don't have to you don't need to 635 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,880 play perfect golf to play great golf. 636 00:30:18,279 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 3: There we go. 637 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,599 Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, I'm gonna just isolate that and 638 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,440 that will be the title of the episode most likely 639 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,599 unless you come up with another gem like that, that's 640 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,680 pretty awesome. 641 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,759 Speaker 2: No, I mean I got a good story from the 642 00:30:30,839 --> 00:30:34,000 US Open that definitely applies to that go because I 643 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,759 mean I qualified for Pinehurst and twenty twenty four and 644 00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:40,599 it was such a cool experience. It was my first major, 645 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,839 and you know, I was really just I wanted to 646 00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:44,920 take it all in and just play as well as 647 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,720 I could and just yeah, it was just such a 648 00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:50,599 neat experience, cool venue, and it'd being an incredible tournament 649 00:30:50,599 --> 00:30:53,200 obviously with Bryce and Rory. But I really spent the 650 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,240 first twenty seven holes, which again I preached this stuff, 651 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,359 but I played the first twenty seven holes just trying 652 00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:00,240 to be perfect, like I just need to be so good, 653 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,920 like I'm in this moment, and I wasn't hitting it great. 654 00:31:05,599 --> 00:31:07,480 I really wasn't hitting it like as good as I 655 00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:09,920 wanted to that whole year. But I got to the 656 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,720 point where I was I think I was nine or 657 00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:14,720 ten over par going into last nine holes, and the 658 00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:17,000 cut was five over, so it was unlikely and I 659 00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:19,000 was turning to the front nine, which was the brutal 660 00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:21,200 side at Piner's Number two. Not that there's an easy 661 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,119 side because the place kind of wrecked everyone except for 662 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,640 you know, Bryson and Rory. But what I did was 663 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,559 just like I kind of just snapped out and like 664 00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:32,880 you like, listen, I'm basically I'm not within the cut 665 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,559 line list I go shoot four or five under on 666 00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:36,839 this side, which would be crazy, but like, I just 667 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,759 need to like play golf. I need to stop trying 668 00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:41,720 to play so perfect. I have like a you know, 669 00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:44,000 a five to eight yard push right now, I'm just 670 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,480 going to play it. So then I just that front 671 00:31:46,599 --> 00:31:50,319 nine at Pinehurst on Friday afternoon. I just remember having 672 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,640 good targets and then centering my pattern, which meant, like, 673 00:31:54,039 --> 00:31:56,160 you know, if I was gonna aim like four yards left, 674 00:31:56,359 --> 00:32:00,160 like whole number one Friday, it was a front I 675 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,319 pin brutal hole, and you know, I'm aiming like four 676 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,799 yards right of the hole. That's where I want this 677 00:32:05,839 --> 00:32:07,720 ball to end up. But because I'm hitting like a 678 00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:10,359 five six yard push, I was going like four to 679 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,960 five yards left of that to account for the push. 680 00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:14,480 So I'm not gonna, like, you know, I'm kind of 681 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,079 done trying to fix my golf swing in the middle 682 00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:16,839 of the US Open. 683 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,119 Speaker 3: That's not a good idea. 684 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,559 Speaker 2: But what I did was just I played my miss, 685 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,480 and I just I started hitting, I started having great results. 686 00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:27,839 I shot one under on that side, and I missed 687 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,519 like three seven foot putts that I should have made. 688 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:31,880 I mean, it was one of those looking back and 689 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,319 like I really could have shot four under the front 690 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,559 nine there at the US Open and like threatened to 691 00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:41,240 make the cut, but I mean played, I mean, shooting 692 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,359 won under par on that side was really good. And 693 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,160 again it was just like I didn't have my best stuff. 694 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,559 If I aimed, or I had been aiming, i'd probably 695 00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:50,519 shoot two or three over par again, because if you 696 00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:53,599 short sighted, piners your toast. If you miss greens, it, 697 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,480 piner's your toast. And so just like, Okay, I'm trying 698 00:32:56,519 --> 00:32:59,119 to play smart golf here and it's not perfect, but 699 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,240 I can outsmart my miss, and you know, it was 700 00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:05,920 still good enough to beat Scotty that day. It was 701 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,799 good enough to ty Rory that day. And it's just like, man, like, 702 00:33:08,839 --> 00:33:11,559 you don't have to play perfect to play some good golf. 703 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 3: And even at the US Open. 704 00:33:18,839 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm curious what kind of putter you use. 705 00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been a ping guy forever I got I 706 00:33:24,279 --> 00:33:26,680 want to say, it's like a ds T or something. 707 00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:31,079 I've used quite a few putters in the day, but yeah, 708 00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:33,960 I've been a pin guy my whole life. So between 709 00:33:34,079 --> 00:33:36,359 that and the Alley Blue, that's kind of mostly what 710 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,720 I've used. I've been a mallet guy for quite a bit. 711 00:33:39,319 --> 00:33:41,200 I just like the forgiveness, and I think what you're 712 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,440 seeing is a lot of the best players are starting 713 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,759 to enjoy the forgiveness too, Like, if it makes it 714 00:33:45,799 --> 00:33:48,119 easier to have good speed. 715 00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 3: Then a lot of people should probably be using mallets. 716 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: And well, the audience knows that I'm a huge fan 717 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:58,400 of lab golf and have been since twenty nineteen. They've 718 00:33:58,519 --> 00:34:01,640 kind of changed things and the way the world looks 719 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,599 at small manufacturers couldn't be happier for him. Have you 720 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:06,240 ever tried one? 721 00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:09,119 Speaker 2: I have, Yeah, No, I've I've tinkered with them quite 722 00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:11,519 a bit. I've used them in some events. Like, Yeah, 723 00:34:11,559 --> 00:34:13,920 they're they're solid, They're really they're good. 724 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 3: Like what they've done. 725 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:20,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love what they've done. Let's talk about you. 726 00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:25,159 Mentioned you're an aim point guy. Explain your process. Explain 727 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,639 your preshot routine using a game point. Yeah, Cutting, I 728 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,960 met with cutting mainly right. 729 00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 2: Yes, which I've actually heard people use it for chipping 730 00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:40,480 as well, which is interesting. But yeah, I saw Mark 731 00:34:40,599 --> 00:34:44,320 Sweeney probably four to five years ago, and he taught 732 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:50,440 me the aim point express way of calculating your where 733 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,599 to aim, and it's just something that you have to practice, 734 00:34:54,599 --> 00:34:57,800 but it's not complicated. You know, you're just measuring the 735 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,800 percentage of slope in your feet and then once you 736 00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:04,960 just learn and know what one, two, three percent feels like, 737 00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:08,000 then it just becomes very easy. And it's nice to 738 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,400 have that awareness, especially on putts where you're just quite 739 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,559 not sure where the break is or many times your 740 00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:17,320 eyes can just deceive you. And there's a lot of 741 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,239 smart golf architects out there that they have slopes going. 742 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,960 You know, you think it's a hard right to left slope, 743 00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:28,320 but where you're actually putting, it's relatively flat, and you know, 744 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,360 that's the stuff that is nice to have that. Hey, 745 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,880 my eyes are telling me this, but I need to 746 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,159 trust my feet because that's where the ball's going. The 747 00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:39,960 balls rolling across the ground, it's not what my eyes 748 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,639 I think is happening. And yeah, as long as you 749 00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:45,480 have a good process and you trust it, I think 750 00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:47,960 game point is really good. Obviously, there's great players that 751 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,719 don't do and then trust their eyes. And but at 752 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,400 the same time, like everyone's everyone's different. You know, some 753 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,199 people may be really gifted and how how their eyes work. 754 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,760 You know, some of the people need contexts and glasses. 755 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,199 Like you know, we're not all the same. But A 756 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,320 points are great just forgetting really good general reads. 757 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 3: Like where where is this thing going? 758 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,039 Speaker 2: Especially in like twenty thirty footers, because you want to 759 00:36:11,039 --> 00:36:13,840 talk about getting the ball close. If you're misreading those 760 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,159 and there's anything around two three percent slope, that ball 761 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,159 is going to get away from you quickly, even if 762 00:36:19,159 --> 00:36:21,360 you have decent speed, because then you're you know, you're 763 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,400 three or four feet left of the hole, and then 764 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,159 you're talking about hey, if I'm three four feet left 765 00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:26,840 the hole and I'm past the hole, now I'm like 766 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,679 six feet away. Yeah, you know you can get away 767 00:36:29,679 --> 00:36:31,920 from you quickly if you're a low side. 768 00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:36,039 Speaker 1: So with your aim point appreciat routine. Sure, are you 769 00:36:36,199 --> 00:36:40,119 looking at the hole from multiple angles or are you just 770 00:36:40,159 --> 00:36:43,800 from behind the ball and just working there or do 771 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,440 you go to the other side of the pen as well. 772 00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:51,039 Speaker 2: I'm mainly just behind behind the ball, and you know 773 00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:54,480 you straddle the line and like multiple places, you know, 774 00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:56,440 one to two places, like a third of the way 775 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,360 between the ball and the hole and you know, two 776 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,400 thirds of the way. And really I'm just trying to 777 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,239 make sure that I'm not again having my eyes confuse me. 778 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,679 So it's really just the only thing that really matters 779 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,440 is between me and the hole. So that's mostly where 780 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,960 I focus on. And then once I get my percent 781 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,880 I know exactly where to put my fingers on my 782 00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:19,159 arm to know, you know, you put that the hole 783 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:20,719 right in the middle of the hole, on the left 784 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,280 side of your your index and then however fingers you have, 785 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,639 is you know, on the right edge of your fingers 786 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,559 kind of where you're you're supposed to aim. And it's 787 00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:31,639 funny you get you get definitely a lot of questions 788 00:37:31,639 --> 00:37:33,440 and proms like what are you doing with your hands? 789 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,280 Speaker 1: Man? Yeah? 790 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I got through the process with them. 791 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,159 Speaker 1: And do you walk off the distance or is it 792 00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:44,400 all eyeballing it I do? 793 00:37:44,559 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 3: Why? 794 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,519 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, talk to me about that way. 795 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,119 Tim Tucker was on once and he talked about you know, look, 796 00:37:52,159 --> 00:37:55,199 everyone's got their GPS and their rangefinder and they want 797 00:37:55,199 --> 00:37:57,440 to know whether the hole is one hundred and eighty 798 00:37:57,519 --> 00:37:59,719 or ninety yards or whatever it is. But when they 799 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,639 get to the green, they're just eyeballing it and they're 800 00:38:01,679 --> 00:38:06,480 not really testing to see what is the actual distance 801 00:38:06,639 --> 00:38:09,719 and then register that in your mind. And that was 802 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,199 that was a huge revelation for me. So I've been 803 00:38:12,199 --> 00:38:14,840 doing that ever since, and I really trust that. But 804 00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:18,400 how you know, you say you do that as well, 805 00:38:18,519 --> 00:38:21,239 you walk it off, you know your distances, I do feel. 806 00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 2: And I originally did it because I wanted to make 807 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,679 sure when I put my statistics in my strokes gain 808 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,039 you know, the apps and stuff like, I want to 809 00:38:29,039 --> 00:38:30,960 make sure the information's good. 810 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 3: You know. 811 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 2: I don't want to say, hey, I'm making all these 812 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,519 twelve foot putts when they're actually eight, because I then 813 00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:41,039 exkews all your data and it's just, you know, you 814 00:38:41,039 --> 00:38:43,679 don't want that as well. So originally it was just 815 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:49,079 for that purpose, but after time it became like there 816 00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:52,760 was more function functionality to it of hey, here's how 817 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,280 long I have this pot, you know, and I practice, 818 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,360 you know, fifteen, I just know what a fifteen foot 819 00:38:57,519 --> 00:39:00,360 putt feels like. When you're practicing before events and you're 820 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,079 doing drills, it's like Okay, this is fifteen feet. This 821 00:39:03,119 --> 00:39:05,039 is why I should expect, you know, the length of 822 00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:08,119 this stroke to be or on the opposite side, like hey, 823 00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:10,559 I've got a twenty seven footer, Like that is just 824 00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:13,559 reinforcing my mind. Do not try to make this putt. 825 00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:16,480 If it happens to go in with great speed, that's 826 00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:19,400 a bonus. But like, I'm not in a position where 827 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,119 this is a go for This is not a green light. 828 00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:24,159 If I got a twenty seven footer. It's kind of 829 00:39:24,159 --> 00:39:28,480 like your blackjack table and you know you're showing let's 830 00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:30,480 say you're showing a twelve when the dealer's got ten. 831 00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:33,159 It's like, you know, this isn't a position of power. 832 00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:35,079 Do not try to do anything crazy here and like 833 00:39:35,639 --> 00:39:38,000 go for it because you're more likely to three putt 834 00:39:38,119 --> 00:39:40,920 from thirty feet let's say just outside thirty feet then 835 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,679 you are to make it. And so that's from tour 836 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,800 Like tour pros are about two putt from thirty feet, 837 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,480 So I mean talk about the amateur game, like much 838 00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:52,519 more likely to three putt from anywhere outside of twenty feet. 839 00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:55,119 So it's like you're going to make up shots in 840 00:39:55,159 --> 00:39:57,840 general on your competition if you just have good speed, 841 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,000 you two putt and if the hole gets the way great, 842 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,199 So that's measuring out also kind of helps manage expectations. Okay, 843 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,880 where am I? What is the shot expectation here? And 844 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,239 so that I don't care if it's for par, it's 845 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,559 for Bogie's for eagle. The shot expectation is the same, 846 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,719 and it's very easy, like, oh, I have this par 847 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,840 putt kind of like Rory the mass as the first 848 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,760 hole the final day, He's got this like eighteen foot 849 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,039 par putt, and I can guarantee if it was a 850 00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:23,880 birdy putt, he does not hit this thing seven eight 851 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,119 feet past the hole like he zoomed it because he's 852 00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:29,159 trying to make this putt and A that's ridiculous because 853 00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:30,440 you're not going to make the putt if you hit 854 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,000 seven feet past the hole. I think it's just gonna 855 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,760 lip out, unless it's one of those that hits the 856 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,760 back of the cup, launches in the air and comes down. 857 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,599 But you know that it's very easy to be like, 858 00:40:38,639 --> 00:40:40,320 oh man, I have to make this as a par 859 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,960 but like it's still an eighteen foot putt regardless of 860 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,320 it your third shot, your tenth shot, like it's the 861 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,800 same probabilities of going in or. 862 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: On interesting And how do you use strokes gained the 863 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,800 information that you get from strokes gained that you know, 864 00:40:56,119 --> 00:40:59,519 Mark Brody introduced us to and we recently played back 865 00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:03,760 the episod so where the week before his book came 866 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,480 out and he didn't know if people were going to 867 00:41:05,559 --> 00:41:08,920 accept it or not. It's really become an important part. 868 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,800 You know, metrics has really changed how we look at 869 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:18,159 game and at our golf game. Tell me how you 870 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,599 use strokes gain information to improve your own game? 871 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 3: Yeah? I was about say, how much time do you have. 872 00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:27,079 Speaker 2: It? 873 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll try to keep this short, man. I use 874 00:41:31,519 --> 00:41:32,280 it for everything. 875 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,679 Speaker 2: I use it for not only like strategically how I 876 00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:39,760 play the game, but also you know, what do I 877 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,639 how do I need to practice? What do I need 878 00:41:41,679 --> 00:41:44,559 to work on? Like what is my recipe for success 879 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,000 out there? Everyone's game is different. Everyone else has a 880 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,239 everyone has a DNA for how they're going to play 881 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,119 their best golf and it's different usually for everybody. So yeah, 882 00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:57,119 strokes Gains has definitely revolutionized like the way I see 883 00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:00,519 the game and really just like think about tots and 884 00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:04,320 sports and how much like people realizing in basketball that 885 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,719 you need to shoot three pointers often early and often 886 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,840 because you're going to score more points. And it's just 887 00:42:12,679 --> 00:42:15,159 golf isn't kind of a similar elk, but there's just 888 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,199 obviously a lot more different ways of scoring other than 889 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,360 twos versus threes. It's much more complicated and so it's 890 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,960 harder to grasp, but the concept still remains, like there 891 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,360 is certain ways to play golf that you will score 892 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:34,400 optimally if you follow these laws of strokes gain and yeah, 893 00:42:34,519 --> 00:42:36,880 a lot of the apps are really solid, and it's 894 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,400 just I mean, I think of it like almost like 895 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,320 a doctor, Like you know, this is like that X 896 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,280 ray or the MRI of your game, and it's like 897 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,920 if you don't know a what you're looking at, good luck, 898 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,840 But be like you need to at least start because 899 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,840 otherwise you're just gonna be guessing out what needs to happen, 900 00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:56,400 how to score and how to get better? 901 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,679 Speaker 1: And how do you teach it for your studentudents? How 902 00:43:00,679 --> 00:43:02,639 do you incorporate it into your instruction? 903 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean I incorporate basically two main ways 904 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,440 of like, hey, here are how you need to think 905 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,840 of golf in general, as and like targets off the 906 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,599 t you know, ways of avoiding bogie like these are 907 00:43:15,639 --> 00:43:19,719 the trip, these are the falls that people have. And 908 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,920 how it's even like how we talked about putting of 909 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,199 like hey, you know outside this certain range is how 910 00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:26,800 we need to think of it and speed and it's 911 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,440 like I can see their information in real time get better. 912 00:43:31,519 --> 00:43:33,440 It's like, oh, I didn't realize putting need to be 913 00:43:33,599 --> 00:43:36,320 like that. And then I'm watching them like overtime three 914 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,320 putt less and it's like, okay, they're score now, just 915 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,559 getting better just from putting alone. And then you have 916 00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:44,519 all these different areas of improvement and ways to also practice, 917 00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:46,079 and like hey, if I'm on the range, I'm on 918 00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:48,079 the practicing this is what I'm going to practice to 919 00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:52,280 reinforce you know, again all comes back from strokes gained 920 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,480 and expectations like here are the expectations for these shots? 921 00:43:56,599 --> 00:43:58,440 How am I going to practice this on the practice 922 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,320 range in order to like play optimally on the golf course. 923 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,840 So it's you know, how do you practice? How are 924 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,719 you specifically is the client going to play your best game? 925 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,639 And like, you know, how do I get get targets? 926 00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:11,039 How do I think on the golf course? 927 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,639 Speaker 1: Interesting? And what about course strategy. It's it's got to 928 00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:20,320 be critically important to not only your game but your instruction. 929 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. 930 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,559 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, you know, Scott Foss is a guy 931 00:44:25,599 --> 00:44:29,480 that I've talked to for many years and definitely agree 932 00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:32,920 with his methods of decade and you know, just being 933 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,679 able to like apply a lot of the strokes gained 934 00:44:36,119 --> 00:44:40,679 philosophies and dispersions, and really the more you understand that, 935 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,800 it's it's you're going to play more optimal golf and 936 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,480 be able to like trust numbers in math, because I mean, 937 00:44:48,559 --> 00:44:52,199 the more you get emotional out there, like it doesn't 938 00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:54,880 even have to be golf, Like, the more emotional you 939 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,280 get and make emotional based decisions, they're usually not better decisions. 940 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: When in your playing career, did you have the epiphany 941 00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:09,760 of I shouldn't be emotional? How where were you? Do 942 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,400 you remember that moment? It's like, oh, this has got 943 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:13,000 to change. 944 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean for me again, because none of this 945 00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:20,360 really was a thing before twenty fourteen and. 946 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,519 Speaker 3: Or you know, really the mid early two. 947 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 2: Thousands, And for me, that kind of breaking point was college. 948 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 3: You know, I was a high recruit. 949 00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 2: I played pretty solid my freshman year, and then it 950 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,199 didn't play as well as sophomore in junior year, and 951 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,599 actually I missed the travel team for postseason junior year, 952 00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:41,559 and that was kind of the breaking point, like I 953 00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:43,679 should be I'm good enough, I have the talent, Like 954 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,599 I shouldn't be missing this, Like why am I not 955 00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:49,239 playing better golf? And it was good because I took 956 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,840 ownership of like man, like I wasn't wrong, like I 957 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,840 truly just didn't play well, and like I need to 958 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,840 do something different. I need to play better. I need 959 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,519 to like untap my potential more. And that was kind 960 00:45:59,519 --> 00:46:02,280 of when the strokes gain stuff was really becoming more 961 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,159 prevalent and like, hey, this is being introduced, like you know, 962 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,960 keep track of your things. And I've always enjoyed math. 963 00:46:08,039 --> 00:46:11,159 I've always enjoyed statistics. It's just kind of been like 964 00:46:11,159 --> 00:46:14,199 a second language for me. So it became this journey 965 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:15,920 of like, oh, this is really cool. Now I can 966 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,400 apply it to the sport that I love playing and 967 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,800 it can help me play better golf, Like I'm eating 968 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,360 this up. And that's kind of like, man, I can't believe, 969 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,639 like I've been playing like such an idiot for so 970 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,719 long in like once you kind of understand like the 971 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,840 grass is green here on the other side, and it's 972 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,360 I got by on a lot of talent alone. And 973 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:42,960 obviously you can still play a lot of great golf 974 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,639 without strategy, but you're not gonna play optimal, if that 975 00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:51,280 makes sense. And so that's just kind of when I 976 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,639 was forced to then really dive into strokes gain and 977 00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,239 good core strategy because my talent only took me so far. 978 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,480 I was running into really good players not playing where 979 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,320 I wanted to play, and it was just like, Okay, 980 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,400 I got to reinvent myself a little bit. So that's 981 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,960 kind of the story behind when that all happened. 982 00:47:11,199 --> 00:47:14,599 Speaker 1: Well, I could be the other title of this episode. 983 00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:17,159 I can't believe I've been playing like such an idiot 984 00:47:18,519 --> 00:47:22,280 because I think relate exactly well, I'll relate to that, 985 00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:26,960 listen to that. I got to listen to that well. 986 00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:30,639 I know that personally, and I hope the Golf Smarter 987 00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:35,599 community will also now have increased interest in following your career. 988 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:42,719 How can we follow you online and get lessons from you? 989 00:47:43,159 --> 00:47:44,679 What's the best way to track you down? 990 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can follow me at my website course of 991 00:47:47,639 --> 00:47:52,280 Action goolf dot com, also on Instagram, I think it's 992 00:47:52,599 --> 00:47:56,039 Chris Petefish Golf. I'm on a lot of the socials, 993 00:47:56,039 --> 00:47:57,559 but yeah, you can check out my website. 994 00:47:57,559 --> 00:47:59,400 Speaker 3: I got a lot of detail information there. 995 00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 2: You know, how to work with me, what exactly I do, 996 00:48:02,199 --> 00:48:06,360 you can follow, you know where I'm playing, and uh 997 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:07,920 yeah all that all that good stuff. 998 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 3: But yeah, listen, I just. 999 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,800 Speaker 2: I think I've been in such a long journey with 1000 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,880 this that I definitely kind of feel like, man, let's 1001 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,239 kind of share kind of I shouldn't say the secrets, 1002 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,880 but like what has really helped me play better? 1003 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:23,119 Speaker 3: And it's it's been. 1004 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,639 Speaker 2: Fun and will be fun to help others kind of 1005 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,039 achieve what they want to in golf. 1006 00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:27,760 Speaker 3: So that's pretty cool. 1007 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:33,159 Speaker 1: Awesome course of action. Goolf dot com. That's right, Chris. 1008 00:48:33,199 --> 00:48:36,440 It's been great talking to you. It's been not only 1009 00:48:36,519 --> 00:48:40,239 an education, but it's really a great journey that I 1010 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,960 appreciate you so much sharing it with us. Yeah. 1011 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,840 Speaker 3: Absolutely, thanks Fred, thanks for having me on. It's been 1012 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:45,599 it's been really fun.