Speaker 1: Hi, this is doctor Russell Bourne from Jupiter, Florida and
I play at Jonas's Landing Country Club. Welcome to Golf Smarter, Ahi.
This is Until the singer from East London, South Africa,
and I play at Westbank Golf Club, Canabi Golf Clubs
and all the other beautiful golf clubs in the area.
This is Golf Smarter and number one and twenty three.
Speaker 2: I feel like if you asked me as a twenty
four to twenty five year old, I would say no,
I got to go to the tour. But sitting here
as a thirty year old that's married and thinking about
family and kids, that'd be hard to say no to.
Where I'm at right now, live isn't knocking on my door.
I mean, I was a top three hundred player eighteen
months ago, but where I'm currently sitting that.
Speaker 3: That would be pretty tempting.
Speaker 2: When you're playing persons that are a hundredth of that
pg Tour Canada, which is why you see a lot
of PGA tour US had to come out and become
much more prevalent of getting and keeping talent, because if
you waive a ten million dollar contract to a top
five college player, it's pretty hard to say no to versus, Hey,
you're gonna have to go through Q school. If you
don't have it for that week, try again next year,
or go through the corn Ferry Tour and make way
less money.
Speaker 3: You know John Rob and Scotti Scheffler.
Speaker 2: I mean, John Ron was a much better player, much
more recognized three four years ago.
Speaker 3: Scotty's one of.
Speaker 2: The greatest players to ever touch a club, and that's
what people are going to remember from this generation. His dominance.
John Ron is making way more money, but no one cares.
Speaker 1: You don't have to play perfect golf to play great golf.
With pro golfer and college standout Chris Petefish, this is
Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf
minds to help you lower your score and raise your
golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome to the
Golf Smarter Podcast. Chris, Hey, Fred, good to see you man. Yeah, you,
thank you so much for reaching out to me. I'm
fascinated when I have guests on that say I think
I'd be I'd be a valuable asset to the Golf
Smarter Podcast. And so you sent me a bio and
it's like, oh, yeah, I agree with you. You will
be tell me what you're up to these days. You're
coaching and playing a tournament golf or what doing what
I am?
Speaker 2: Yeh, So I'm playing at PGA Tour America's right now,
formerly pg Tour Canada.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I've been playing professional golf.
Speaker 2: For eight years now, and I played two of them
up in Canada and then kind of lost a year
or two in Covid which I still had status up there,
but everyone was frozen at the time. I got my
Corn Ferry card and a twenty twenty one. I played
out there for three years, twenty two, twenty three, twenty four.
I was one shot away from my tour card in
twenty twenty three. But I mean there's so many stories
like that, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, but I want to hear yours. You know.
Speaker 2: I was having an okay and then I showed up
in Utah and this was I think early August, end
of July of twenty three, and I just had an
incredible week. I had one of the only I think
ten or eleven events in PGA Tour history or Corn
Fairy Tour history without a bogie for seventy two holes whoa. Yes,
I didn't record a bogie the entire week, just played
pitched the perfect game. I think I was twenty four under,
twenty three under for the week, and I was sitting
in the clubhouse, I think up by two shots, and
you know, I had a pretty good shot at winning
the tournament, and there was only one guy that possibly
could catch up.
Speaker 3: It was Roger Sloan.
Speaker 2: And credit to him, the guy I birdied three of
the last four holes to edge me out by a shot.
I think he made like three two or three pots
outside fifteen feet in a row, just like these are
pots have like you know, eighteen to twenty percent chance
of going in and they just kept going in. And
so that was a little bit of a snake bitten,
but it was, you know, such a high have such
a great week, and.
Speaker 1: You almost won that that tournament, that event, and yet
it prevented you from getting your card.
Speaker 2: You know, if I had won that tournament, then yeah,
I definitely I probably would have gotten my card, just
based on how the points work. And I also finished
tied for second a month later at one of the
Corporea Championship events at Ohio State, and I was in
a two way tie for second, and if I was
solo second.
Speaker 3: That would have done as well. So it was really like.
Speaker 2: One shot there or you know, Roger Slow, I'm not
going crazy in the last four holes.
Speaker 3: But I mean that's just how golf is, like.
Speaker 1: Right right, And so does that is that frustration kind
of make you question what you're doing or you're just like, okay,
I'm that close, I can do this.
Speaker 2: I think you have to have gain confidence out of
that that I am that close, and it is like
I am doing the right things because I mean, at
the end of day, you want to play golf where
I'm not going back and frustrated, Oh I should have
done this, I should on that, which is a part
of like what we'll talk about and playing strategic golf
and getting the most out of your game as you can.
And I think both of those situations like you know what,
I did what I could and I just I just
got beat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just play your game and if someone beat they.
Speaker 3: Beat you, Yeah you got to shake their hand.
Speaker 2: But so yeah, I'm still playing, you know up in
Canada right now, as well as teaching and you know,
player performance coaching and really enjoy that as well. You know,
building a clientele, and it's it's really fun to go
back and teach. Not only I do have a lot
of juniors mostly, but also you know, some professional players,
guys that are trying to get back into it, and
it's it's kind of fun just be able to teach
them everything that I wish I knew fifteen years ago
across this whole journey of how to play your best golf.
Speaker 1: Interesting, but you also had an illustrious college career before
you started going pro.
Speaker 3: I did. I mean, I guess if we're going back,
you know, I was.
Speaker 2: I was like a top five I've high school, recruited
my class in twenty fourteen, and obviously had a lot
of options of where to play college golf. And I
was lucky enough that Georgia Tech also wanted me to
play for them, and so that's where I ended up
playing from twenty fourteen twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: And I did. I had a good career.
Speaker 2: I you know, I was all acc and we had
a ton of great teams. I actually never was number
one on the team, and just you know, I played
all four years, but yeah, we had great teams, a
lot of success, and you know, I had a very solid.
Speaker 3: Career, you'd say as a college player.
Speaker 1: But is Georgia Tech known for their college program, I
mean their golf program.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very very much so.
Speaker 2: I mean they're definitely one of the best better programs
in the last thirty years under under Bruce Eppler, and
they've won I can't even tell you how many ACC
championships they've won their conference. It's I mean, it's got
to be somewhere like around twenty. And yeah, just just
a great program. A lot of great professionals that come
out of there. Obviously you talk about Bobby Jones like
way back in the day, but you know, Matt Cooch
or Stewart, seeing David davall at, a lot of great
prestige coming out of that program.
Speaker 3: And you know.
Speaker 2: There was a place that I want to go, knowing
that I wanted to play professional golf, and you know,
Bruce knows how to get players ready to do that.
Speaker 1: And what do you feel is your window of opportunity
to get to the show, to getting you know, get
to the tour where you feel like, Okay, if I
give it X amount of years and I don't do it,
then maybe I should just be focusing on instruction. And
things like that. Yeah, have you put that on yourself
or you don't even think about that?
Speaker 2: No, it's definitely stuff I think about. I mean, that's
part of the reason I'm doing some coaching now and like,
you know, enjoying that almost as much as playing myself
and being out there. You know, I am thirty years old.
I got married thirteen months ago, which has been a
blessing and congratulations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: And so it's definitely I think everyone has that question
of like, man, how much time am I going to
give myself?
Speaker 3: How good can I get this game?
Speaker 2: And it's something that I think growing up was always
just how good can I get? I'm going to compete
against myself because golf is not a game where you
can compete against other players, not in the sense of
physically like you can if you're you know, in tennis
or whatnot. But it's for me, it's always been a
competition of like, how good can I get? And if
I feel like that I'm plateauing or not getting better,
then that I feel like that's when n if I'm
not on the tour, then that's kind of when hey,
you know, I've done what I can.
Speaker 1: If you've only been married thirteen months, I got to
believe that your spouse is totally in on this. Oh yeah,
or do you ever hear her toast tapping like, Okay,
it's not working, not go no.
Speaker 3: No, She's fully supportive of me. So that's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good for you, Good for you. And what about
your college team. Anybody that we would recognize their name
that came out of the program that you played on
for four years?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean starting with when I was a freshman.
All A sneyder Jeens was a senior, you know, he
was number one ammer in the world and he is
a reserve on Live right now. But I mean, loads
of talent there. Obviously one of the best college players ever.
And andrews Albertson played quite a few years on PGA
tour seth Reeves did.
Speaker 3: Vince Whaley's out there right now.
Speaker 2: He was someone that wasn't like the hot shot coming
out of high school and then just kept getting better
and better and just been impressive to watch him, you know,
in his career, and then some of the young guys
and Andy oltree he won the US SAM he's on
Live right now, trying to think Strafaci, he won the
US SAMs and there's there's been a ton of great players,
and you know, even from the four years I was there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you brought this up, and I'm really fascinated because
of the position you're in that I want to bring
this up where you are getting closed, You're like, you
can taste the tour. You know it's right there. You
just you know, you just got to play your best
game and hope that nobody goes nuts in the last
four holes of a tournament. But Live is there as well,
And if they were to throw a bunch of money
at you just play exhibition golf, which at this point
Live is still exhibition golf. Where would your mindset go?
And I'm sure you've thought about this, and it's not
the first time it's coming up to you. Where you know,
where do you sit down with your spouse and say, yeah,
maybe this is the better way to do this for
the future of our family, or no, I've got to
I've got to play on the tour to know that
I can play with the best. Where are you and
how does that sit?
Speaker 3: That's a good question.
Speaker 2: I feel like if you asked me as a twenty
four to twenty five year old, I would say no, I.
Speaker 3: Got to go to the tour. I gotta do this.
Speaker 2: But sitting here as a thirty year old that's married
and thinking about family and kids and all that stuff
like that'd be hard to say no to because I mean,
where I'm at right now, live isn't knocking on my
door even as someone that was. I mean, I was
a top three hundred player, you know, eighteen months ago
in the ficial golf rankings. But you know where I'm
currently sitting, that that would be pretty tempting when you're playing,
you know, persons that are a hundredth of that, the
PGA Tour Canada, the America's events. So yeah, that would
be pretty pretty tempting and hard probably to say no to,
which is why you see a lot of you know,
the PGA Tour US had to come out and become
much more prevalent of getting and keeping talent because if
you you know, you waive a ten million dollar contract
to a top five college player, that's pretty hard to
say no to.
Speaker 3: Versus, hey, you're.
Speaker 2: Gonna have to go through and go through Q school.
If you don't have it for that week, you know,
try again next year or go through the corn Ferry
Tour and make way less money. Like you know, there's
there's so many good players that, like, it's hard to
blame if someone wants to take that, which even if
it's not like the dream of like you know, PGA
Tour is a lot more meaningful golf. Like you know,
John Ram and Scotti Scheffler, those were names that were
I mean, John Ron was much better player, much more
recognized three or four years ago. And now it's like
John Ron is making way more money, but no one cares.
Like Scotty's one of the greatest players to ever touch
a club, and that's that's what people are right now
going to remember from this generation is his dominance.
Speaker 1: That was a very thoughtful answer, and I really appreciate
you being open to talking about the live journey if
it was there, What would it take for you to
get there? Phone call? What would it take? You know,
what do you think it would take for maybe some
time getting that phone call, going, oh, we got to
consider this.
Speaker 3: Gosh, that's a good question.
Speaker 2: I mean, the easiest way to do it now would
be if I got in through their promotions event.
Speaker 3: Otherwise it's like the guys that.
Speaker 2: Are getting invited there now or have had pretty good
careers on the PGA Tour, So it's almost like a
catch twenty two, Like I'd have to be on the
PGA Tour and having success out there for them to
get that phone call.
Speaker 1: But the guys that you played with in college, they
did have.
Speaker 2: They they went through their International Series, so they qualified
their way on. Andy played incredible golf on the International Series,
which is like their feeder tour, their corn ferry tour
where only one person gets elevated to Live and so
he played well through going through that tour, and then
Allie got invited to the promotions event, which is I
think it's a Nabu Dhabi or something in December, but.
Speaker 3: He he got that.
Speaker 2: I think he came in like second or third, and
you know, qualified for the International Series because you have
to qualify just to get to the International Series, which
is underneath the Lift. And then he won that first
event in the International Series and then became a reserve.
Speaker 3: For the Live Golf League.
Speaker 2: So the easiest pathway for me to get there would
be through that, like their quote unquote Q School to
then get onto their corn ferry. So it definitely is
a process. Now where before I mean, because there's a
woman number players, like, it's definitely tougher to the crack
a spot.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So right now you're you're playing and you're coaching,
correct yep, And so where how do you split that
time and focus on your game versus other people's games?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Obviously, you know, I got to put my client's
needs first, like, you know, make sure that they're getting
what they need. And I love enjoy working with them
and watching them play, and just like you know, I
feel like I'm a coach college coach, Like I'm tracking
all their leader boards and seeing how they're doing. And
it's definitely a juggling act between you know, husband player coach.
But honestly, it's kind of like a fun challenge for me,
Like I have to be very efficient with my time
and I have to really practice what I preach, which
is like a lot of these college kids coming out
and playing against like they may be practicing and playing
more than me, but they're just not going to outsmart
me on the golf course.
Speaker 3: Which is a lot of the stuff that I preach is.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of like decade principles and in
course strategy of just going back to some of the
events this summer of like you know, I've led two
of the fields and bogie avoidance, I've been top five
and most of them. It's just like I'm going to basically,
I'm just not going to give shots away like that.
That is my goal, going to not make bogies, and
if I make enough berties, you know, so be it.
Speaker 3: That's how you can tend events and win events.
Speaker 2: But I'm just going to have to play very smart
and practice smart if I don't have as much time.
Speaker 1: We like golf smarter. Yeah, what's your superpower on the course?
What what is it that sets you apart from your competition?
Speaker 2: Well, I would say as a player, yeah, yeah, as
a player, I would say a couple of things, like
my mind obviously just being able to really be present
and not get emotional when things go haywire, which they
often do literally all the time.
Speaker 3: And you know, I would say physical part of my game.
Speaker 2: If you an iron play, I'm just I'm really solry
with from like nine iron to five iron, just been
you know, Strosskin approach is somewhere I've been really good
and so I do well on courses where it's it's
demanding into the greens, and there's a bigger penalty that
if you miss a green short sight, it's much hard
to get up and down. I'll do a good job
of hitting lot of green So that's where a lot
of the bogie avoidance. It's easier to be good at
that when you're hitting a lost solid iron shots to
you know, eighteen twenty five feet. So that's that's part
of the reason why I do well with not making
a ton of bogies. And I've actually done a better
in corn ferry events where the scores aren't super low
for that reason.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Two, we've had a second and a third in events
where like you know, single digits won the event just
because I was, you know, not making a ton of birdies.
Speaker 3: I just wasn't making bogies and harder courses.
Speaker 1: So and what's what's more, I mean, because we've heard
Tiger talk about things like that, But to you, is
saving par and not making bogies more valuable than making birdies?
Speaker 3: For sure?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the numbers would suggest that absolutely that
you know, sixty five seventy percent of your score is
attributed to how well can you avoid a bogie versus
how many birdies you can make. And yeah, I think
in a lot of understanding the principles of like I
had to say this, but golf in general, just where
does scoring come from? And how do you avoid bogies?
Is something that isn't taught enough or emphasized enough.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we talk everything from t shots to putting,
but I think putting is a really easy one to
talk about. Its low hanging fruit, and it's just the
capture rate of the hole I think is not talked
about enough. And and things I see even from announcers
on TV where you know, they're talking about, oh, I
can't believe he left this put short, or he's got
a really good look and it's like an eighteen foot slider.
I'm like, that's just not a high percentage putt to
make in the capturate of the hole, which you know,
I think it was either Loose Stagner or someone I
saw them tweet this out. It was a great photo
of like, you know, how big is actually the hole
based on how far past you hit this putt, because
I mean the hole is four point two five inches,
but it's not that big if you're hitting a four
feet past the hole, Like the ability for the ball
to actually go in the hole is significantly significantly smaller
if you're hitting putts four feet past the hole. And
I think what people don't realize is like you actually
have to leave some put short in order to make
it make more putts. And it sounds kind of productive.
Speaker 1: Whoa yeah, like you've got a lee. I mean I
played with someone. Really is like at my club when
I play, if I leave a putt short, I owed
everyone on the group for five bucks each. You know,
it's like, but you're saying strategically.
Speaker 2: Just math, ye, you have to leave some put short
from like I'm talking anywhere outside fifteen feet, because again,
you have to think of putts as like a dispersion.
So you know, if I hit one hundred puts from
twenty five feet, I'm not gonna hit every put within
two feet, Like there's gonna be a four foot window
of putts, and I have to place that four foot
window in the appropriate place where you know, I'm giving
myself the best chance for as many putts ago as possible.
But I'm not going to three putt because that's the
easiest way to lose shots is to three putts asolutely.
And that's the thing when you think of the capture
of the hole, Like, if you're hitting putts three four
five feet past the hole, you've made the hole so
small that A you're not making those even if they're
a well struck putt, they're probably going to lip out
because you've made the hole so small. But B you're
just going to you will miss three four and five
foot ers occasionally it will happen. And so if you
don't leave putts short, it's like people say, Okay, I
can just hit within this two foot window of you know,
at the hole or just past the hole, Like that's
not possible.
Speaker 3: We're not robots. You know.
Speaker 2: Golf is hard unless you're twenty fifteen Jordan Speed, Like
he may be the only person I can think of
that hit every pie in a two foot window because
he made putts from twenty to twenty five feet I've
never seen before anyone's ever been seen four in golf.
But for the rest of people, like, yeah, you're going
to have a four foot window from twenty twenty five
feet if you're a good play you know, it might
be six feet.
Speaker 3: Uh. For the average player.
Speaker 2: So it's like you're gonna have if you don't leave
any put short and you have a five foot window,
then you're just gonna have putts be at the hole
five feet past. Everything from three to five feet past
the hole doesn't really have a shot of going in.
You will three put those and so like, yeah, you
have to leave some short in order for the putts
you go past the hole actually have a chance to
go in.
Speaker 1: And why is that? Why is a putt that goes
five feet past more difficult to make than a putt
that's five feet short.
Speaker 2: It's not it's not that it's five feet short. Like,
I'm not suggesting you hit five feet short. I'm suggesting
if you have this window of putts that you hit,
Let's say you hit one hundred puts from twenty feet, Like,
ideally I want to leave my window between one foot.
Speaker 3: Short and four feet past.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying, like, you know, leave it five feet
If you're gonna leave a putt five feet I'd rather
hit five feet past. It might hit the hole, slow
it down, or you get to see the read on
the way through.
Speaker 1: But and that's a really important thing. Seeing the read
on the way through. If you miss the putt and
it goes past, keep your eye on it, right for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't.
Speaker 1: You're gonna learn a.
Speaker 2: Lot, you will, Yes, and so yeah, when it comes
back to like potting, it's like, you know, avoiding three
putts from outside twenty feet is one of the fastest
ways to save a shot or two or three around,
you know, depending on the type of player, because we
spend so much time like oh, I'm really trying to
make this putt, and it's like, no, we really need
to just have as good speed and if that means
leaving some one or two feet short, be happy, go
in and tap it in stress free.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, I love it. You've mentioned capture
rate a multiple times at this point, and I've never
heard that term. Can you explain what that means? Capture rate?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like imagine a putt that hangs on
the lip and then falls in you know circle like
you know Tiger Woods is chip and five like that
is using the maximum amount of the hole to have
the ball go in, and you can almost think of it.
I think of it almost like an NBA shot, where
like if you have a three point shot with the
perfect arc like Steph Curry. He's using basically the most
amount of the basket you can for it to go
in of the hoop, you know, for it to go
in versus someone that comes in there like a line drive,
someone that's not a good three point here. I'm thinking
like Russell Westbrook, Andre Robson back in the day, those
guy there are three in d specials. There just aren't
a good three point shot if it's coming in fast
and low, like you're not using a lot of that
hoop to go in. And that's the same thing in putting,
and like if you're coming in with three four five
feet past the hole, you are the guy that's just
throwing line drives at the basket and it's just unlikely
to go in unless it's perfect.
Speaker 1: Interesting, Oh, I love this. Keep going. Do you ever
use the hole as like a clock and going okay,
I need to come in at four o'clock here if
you're where you're standing at six o'clock on the on
the face of the clock, and I want my ball
to break, and it's you know, looking what I have
here as the break I see the ball going at
at four four thirty. Do you is that one of
your strategies that you use and teach.
Speaker 3: I have used that before.
Speaker 2: I think I'm just I'm an aamepoint guy, and so
you know, I'll get my read using my feet and
then once I have my line, it's really about the
speed and seeing if just hoping that the hole gets
in the way mm, because I mean, if I have
good speed, then I'm just going to make the hole
as big as I possibly can. And you know, I
think otherwise you start thinking about the clock, which is fine,
like you know, Aim small, miss Small, but I think
I think if I started thinking about the clock too much,
then I'll kind of lose sight on the speed.
Speaker 1: Are you familiar You're you know, you're down in Georgia.
Are you familiar with Eric Alpenfels at Pinehurst, head instructor
at Pinehurst. I'm not, okay, So we did an episode
with him recently about his book Instinct Putting, which came
out I think it a decade ago, and I've been
talking a lot about it because it's such a radical thought.
But it's really makes a lot of sense. And I
know there's a lot of things in golf that don't
make a lot of sense, but we do it anyway,
and his whole theory on instinct putting is looking at
the hole when you're putting.
Speaker 2: I'm a huge but yeah, absolutely it got me really yeah.
I mean it just has to be athletic. Think about
a free throw shooter like he when he's dribbling, You're
not looking at the ball, You're looking at the basket.
You're looking at the target.
Speaker 1: And I talk about that all the time. It is
like the simplest one to think of. You know, we
talk about, you know, shooting a basket, throwing a football,
throwing a baseball, hitting a baseball, all these things. Cornhole
is the easiest way to explain it to somebody. It's
like you wouldn't look at your hand when you're throwing
the bean.
Speaker 3: Bag, right, Yeah, No, you have to be athletic.
Speaker 2: And that's something where putting is probably not probably, but
it has been the weakness of my game that I
think it has helped me back. Is like when I put well,
I'm like top ten, top fifteen contending. And that is
something that I've struggled with because I want to think
internally and think about, you know, how I'm putting it.
And it's definitely a constant battle for me to like
look at the target, and it's something I have to
keep reinforcing to this day.
Speaker 3: But it does. It certainly helps a lot.
Speaker 2: I can't you know, express how important is to look
at the whole more because that is the goalt and
also going to help your speed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, do you ever look at the whole
while you're putting or do you go back bring your
eyes back to the ball.
Speaker 2: I bring my eyes back to the ball. You know,
I can't really speak it and do do what he
does with the short punt.
Speaker 3: So since this.
Speaker 1: Book is all about yeah, it's fascinating and it's not
something he's like, oh, I'm going to go try that. No, no, no,
you've got to work on it. It takes time and
you do practice, you got and you got to trust it.
And he talks about your athletic intuition, which you were
kind of alluding to the same thing is doing that
and it just you know, locking yourself into that. Also
when you're doing it and you're looking at the hole
and we're just saying, let's a four or five foot putt,
and you're looking at a very specific spot that you're
aiming for in the hole, and you keep looking at that,
you eliminate the head gain of mechanics and you don't
have to worry about lifting your head because it's already lifted.
That's true, but it's like eliminating the mechanics or the
worry of mechanics would happen. And I know that that's
always been an issue for me. When I'm putting, especially
on short putts, it's like, oh my hands, Oh I
didn't I wasn't, you know, holding the putter, elevating it
off the ground a little bit, and I didn't do
that and didn't do this. But by doing, you know,
using this instinct putting, now I'm eliminating a lot of
that and getting a lot more longer putts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's good stuff. You think I have some
of the best pawers of the world. They're not usually
the ones that have long routines. They're not the ones
standing over the ball. They're the ones that are like
taking one or two looks they're hitting it because they're
just athletic.
Speaker 3: They're in a flow state. They're not thinking about how
to hit.
Speaker 2: There's like, oh, there's a target, there's cool hit it,
and it's just you know, think of brand Santeker. I
think of a couple of the guys that are incredible putters,
like even that play with Robbie Shelton, Braden Thornberrier, Like
they're so automatic with their putting and it's very athletic
and flowy, interesting.
Speaker 1: And so when you're playing competitively you talked about, you
said earlier, it's tough to outsmart me on the course.
So it's just not the physical element, the mechanics of
your game that makes you an elite player.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean at the end of the day, golf
is a game, and the more you understand the rules
of the game and how golf is scored, like, the
better you're gonna play and the more consistent, the more
you're gonna get out of your own game, I should say,
And I almost kind of related to a very complicated
game of blackjack, Like there's just a set of rules
and probabilities that you need to live by on the
golf course to just take the emotion out of it
and make good decisions over and over again. And yeah,
it's really helped me a get the most out of
my game. But also be like it makes golf more
fun because you're not after round, just thinking, oh, man,
what an idiot?
Speaker 3: Why did I do that? I just wasted this.
Speaker 2: I felt like I should have shot lower a lot
of my rounds, like you know what I shot, what
I should have shot, and you know if I went
and shot you know, seventy three or seventy two, and
it's like, all right, let's go work on some mechanics
or go work on a few things. But like, you
don't need to play like at a competitive level, you
don't need to play perfect golf to play great golf.
You understand, you need to know how to understand how
to manage you know your strategy and manage your golf game.
But I've played a ton of grit eight tournaments in
great golf with like, man, my swing doesn't feel great
and I have a miss, but I'm going to play it,
and I'm gonna center my shot pattern and I'm gonna
play with what I have.
Speaker 1: I think you just came up with the title of
the episode. You don't have to you don't need to
play perfect golf to play great golf.
Speaker 3: There we go.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, I'm gonna just isolate that and
that will be the title of the episode most likely
unless you come up with another gem like that, that's
pretty awesome.
Speaker 2: No, I mean I got a good story from the
US Open that definitely applies to that go because I
mean I qualified for Pinehurst and twenty twenty four and
it was such a cool experience. It was my first major,
and you know, I was really just I wanted to
take it all in and just play as well as
I could and just yeah, it was just such a
neat experience, cool venue, and it'd being an incredible tournament
obviously with Bryce and Rory. But I really spent the
first twenty seven holes, which again I preached this stuff,
but I played the first twenty seven holes just trying
to be perfect, like I just need to be so good,
like I'm in this moment, and I wasn't hitting it great.
I really wasn't hitting it like as good as I
wanted to that whole year. But I got to the
point where I was I think I was nine or
ten over par going into last nine holes, and the
cut was five over, so it was unlikely and I
was turning to the front nine, which was the brutal
side at Piner's Number two. Not that there's an easy
side because the place kind of wrecked everyone except for
you know, Bryson and Rory. But what I did was
just like I kind of just snapped out and like
you like, listen, I'm basically I'm not within the cut
line list I go shoot four or five under on
this side, which would be crazy, but like, I just
need to like play golf. I need to stop trying
to play so perfect. I have like a you know,
a five to eight yard push right now, I'm just
going to play it. So then I just that front
nine at Pinehurst on Friday afternoon. I just remember having
good targets and then centering my pattern, which meant, like,
you know, if I was gonna aim like four yards left,
like whole number one Friday, it was a front I
pin brutal hole, and you know, I'm aiming like four
yards right of the hole. That's where I want this
ball to end up. But because I'm hitting like a
five six yard push, I was going like four to
five yards left of that to account for the push.
So I'm not gonna, like, you know, I'm kind of
done trying to fix my golf swing in the middle
of the US Open.
Speaker 3: That's not a good idea.
Speaker 2: But what I did was just I played my miss,
and I just I started hitting, I started having great results.
I shot one under on that side, and I missed
like three seven foot putts that I should have made.
I mean, it was one of those looking back and
like I really could have shot four under the front
nine there at the US Open and like threatened to
make the cut, but I mean played, I mean, shooting
won under par on that side was really good. And
again it was just like I didn't have my best stuff.
If I aimed, or I had been aiming, i'd probably
shoot two or three over par again, because if you
short sighted, piners your toast. If you miss greens, it,
piner's your toast. And so just like, Okay, I'm trying
to play smart golf here and it's not perfect, but
I can outsmart my miss, and you know, it was
still good enough to beat Scotty that day. It was
good enough to ty Rory that day. And it's just like, man, like,
you don't have to play perfect to play some good golf.
Speaker 3: And even at the US Open.
Speaker 1: I'm curious what kind of putter you use.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been a ping guy forever I got I
want to say, it's like a ds T or something.
I've used quite a few putters in the day, but yeah,
I've been a pin guy my whole life. So between
that and the Alley Blue, that's kind of mostly what
I've used. I've been a mallet guy for quite a bit.
I just like the forgiveness, and I think what you're
seeing is a lot of the best players are starting
to enjoy the forgiveness too, Like, if it makes it
easier to have good speed.
Speaker 3: Then a lot of people should probably be using mallets.
Speaker 1: And well, the audience knows that I'm a huge fan
of lab golf and have been since twenty nineteen. They've
kind of changed things and the way the world looks
at small manufacturers couldn't be happier for him. Have you
ever tried one?
Speaker 2: I have, Yeah, No, I've I've tinkered with them quite
a bit. I've used them in some events. Like, Yeah,
they're they're solid, They're really they're good.
Speaker 3: Like what they've done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love what they've done. Let's talk about you.
Mentioned you're an aim point guy. Explain your process. Explain
your preshot routine using a game point. Yeah, Cutting, I
met with cutting mainly right.
Speaker 2: Yes, which I've actually heard people use it for chipping
as well, which is interesting. But yeah, I saw Mark
Sweeney probably four to five years ago, and he taught
me the aim point express way of calculating your where
to aim, and it's just something that you have to practice,
but it's not complicated. You know, you're just measuring the
percentage of slope in your feet and then once you
just learn and know what one, two, three percent feels like,
then it just becomes very easy. And it's nice to
have that awareness, especially on putts where you're just quite
not sure where the break is or many times your
eyes can just deceive you. And there's a lot of
smart golf architects out there that they have slopes going.
You know, you think it's a hard right to left slope,
but where you're actually putting, it's relatively flat, and you know,
that's the stuff that is nice to have that. Hey,
my eyes are telling me this, but I need to
trust my feet because that's where the ball's going. The
balls rolling across the ground, it's not what my eyes
I think is happening. And yeah, as long as you
have a good process and you trust it, I think
game point is really good. Obviously, there's great players that
don't do and then trust their eyes. And but at
the same time, like everyone's everyone's different. You know, some
people may be really gifted and how how their eyes work.
You know, some of the people need contexts and glasses.
Like you know, we're not all the same. But A
points are great just forgetting really good general reads.
Speaker 3: Like where where is this thing going?
Speaker 2: Especially in like twenty thirty footers, because you want to
talk about getting the ball close. If you're misreading those
and there's anything around two three percent slope, that ball
is going to get away from you quickly, even if
you have decent speed, because then you're you know, you're
three or four feet left of the hole, and then
you're talking about hey, if I'm three four feet left
the hole and I'm past the hole, now I'm like
six feet away. Yeah, you know you can get away
from you quickly if you're a low side.
Speaker 1: So with your aim point appreciat routine. Sure, are you
looking at the hole from multiple angles or are you just
from behind the ball and just working there or do
you go to the other side of the pen as well.
Speaker 2: I'm mainly just behind behind the ball, and you know
you straddle the line and like multiple places, you know,
one to two places, like a third of the way
between the ball and the hole and you know, two
thirds of the way. And really I'm just trying to
make sure that I'm not again having my eyes confuse me.
So it's really just the only thing that really matters
is between me and the hole. So that's mostly where
I focus on. And then once I get my percent
I know exactly where to put my fingers on my
arm to know, you know, you put that the hole
right in the middle of the hole, on the left
side of your your index and then however fingers you have,
is you know, on the right edge of your fingers
kind of where you're you're supposed to aim. And it's
funny you get you get definitely a lot of questions
and proms like what are you doing with your hands?
Speaker 1: Man? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I got through the process with them.
Speaker 1: And do you walk off the distance or is it
all eyeballing it I do?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, talk to me about that way.
Tim Tucker was on once and he talked about you know, look,
everyone's got their GPS and their rangefinder and they want
to know whether the hole is one hundred and eighty
or ninety yards or whatever it is. But when they
get to the green, they're just eyeballing it and they're
not really testing to see what is the actual distance
and then register that in your mind. And that was
that was a huge revelation for me. So I've been
doing that ever since, and I really trust that. But
how you know, you say you do that as well,
you walk it off, you know your distances, I do feel.
Speaker 2: And I originally did it because I wanted to make
sure when I put my statistics in my strokes gain
you know, the apps and stuff like, I want to
make sure the information's good.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say, hey, I'm making all these
twelve foot putts when they're actually eight, because I then
exkews all your data and it's just, you know, you
don't want that as well. So originally it was just
for that purpose, but after time it became like there
was more function functionality to it of hey, here's how
long I have this pot, you know, and I practice,
you know, fifteen, I just know what a fifteen foot
putt feels like. When you're practicing before events and you're
doing drills, it's like Okay, this is fifteen feet. This
is why I should expect, you know, the length of
this stroke to be or on the opposite side, like hey,
I've got a twenty seven footer, Like that is just
reinforcing my mind. Do not try to make this putt.
If it happens to go in with great speed, that's
a bonus. But like, I'm not in a position where
this is a go for This is not a green light.
If I got a twenty seven footer. It's kind of
like your blackjack table and you know you're showing let's
say you're showing a twelve when the dealer's got ten.
It's like, you know, this isn't a position of power.
Do not try to do anything crazy here and like
go for it because you're more likely to three putt
from thirty feet let's say just outside thirty feet then
you are to make it. And so that's from tour
Like tour pros are about two putt from thirty feet,
So I mean talk about the amateur game, like much
more likely to three putt from anywhere outside of twenty feet.
So it's like you're going to make up shots in
general on your competition if you just have good speed,
you two putt and if the hole gets the way great,
So that's measuring out also kind of helps manage expectations. Okay,
where am I? What is the shot expectation here? And
so that I don't care if it's for par, it's
for Bogie's for eagle. The shot expectation is the same,
and it's very easy, like, oh, I have this par
putt kind of like Rory the mass as the first
hole the final day, He's got this like eighteen foot
par putt, and I can guarantee if it was a
birdy putt, he does not hit this thing seven eight
feet past the hole like he zoomed it because he's
trying to make this putt and A that's ridiculous because
you're not going to make the putt if you hit
seven feet past the hole. I think it's just gonna
lip out, unless it's one of those that hits the
back of the cup, launches in the air and comes down.
But you know that it's very easy to be like,
oh man, I have to make this as a par
but like it's still an eighteen foot putt regardless of
it your third shot, your tenth shot, like it's the
same probabilities of going in or.
Speaker 1: On interesting And how do you use strokes gained the
information that you get from strokes gained that you know,
Mark Brody introduced us to and we recently played back
the episod so where the week before his book came
out and he didn't know if people were going to
accept it or not. It's really become an important part.
You know, metrics has really changed how we look at
game and at our golf game. Tell me how you
use strokes gain information to improve your own game?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I was about say, how much time do you have.
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll try to keep this short, man. I use
it for everything.
Speaker 2: I use it for not only like strategically how I
play the game, but also you know, what do I
how do I need to practice? What do I need
to work on? Like what is my recipe for success
out there? Everyone's game is different. Everyone else has a
everyone has a DNA for how they're going to play
their best golf and it's different usually for everybody. So yeah,
strokes Gains has definitely revolutionized like the way I see
the game and really just like think about tots and
sports and how much like people realizing in basketball that
you need to shoot three pointers often early and often
because you're going to score more points. And it's just
golf isn't kind of a similar elk, but there's just
obviously a lot more different ways of scoring other than
twos versus threes. It's much more complicated and so it's
harder to grasp, but the concept still remains, like there
is certain ways to play golf that you will score
optimally if you follow these laws of strokes gain and yeah,
a lot of the apps are really solid, and it's
just I mean, I think of it like almost like
a doctor, Like you know, this is like that X
ray or the MRI of your game, and it's like
if you don't know a what you're looking at, good luck,
But be like you need to at least start because
otherwise you're just gonna be guessing out what needs to happen,
how to score and how to get better?
Speaker 1: And how do you teach it for your studentudents? How
do you incorporate it into your instruction?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean I incorporate basically two main ways
of like, hey, here are how you need to think
of golf in general, as and like targets off the
t you know, ways of avoiding bogie like these are
the trip, these are the falls that people have. And
how it's even like how we talked about putting of
like hey, you know outside this certain range is how
we need to think of it and speed and it's
like I can see their information in real time get better.
It's like, oh, I didn't realize putting need to be
like that. And then I'm watching them like overtime three
putt less and it's like, okay, they're score now, just
getting better just from putting alone. And then you have
all these different areas of improvement and ways to also practice,
and like hey, if I'm on the range, I'm on
the practicing this is what I'm going to practice to
reinforce you know, again all comes back from strokes gained
and expectations like here are the expectations for these shots?
How am I going to practice this on the practice
range in order to like play optimally on the golf course.
So it's you know, how do you practice? How are
you specifically is the client going to play your best game?
And like, you know, how do I get get targets?
How do I think on the golf course?
Speaker 1: Interesting? And what about course strategy. It's it's got to
be critically important to not only your game but your instruction.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, you know, Scott Foss is a guy
that I've talked to for many years and definitely agree
with his methods of decade and you know, just being
able to like apply a lot of the strokes gained
philosophies and dispersions, and really the more you understand that,
it's it's you're going to play more optimal golf and
be able to like trust numbers in math, because I mean,
the more you get emotional out there, like it doesn't
even have to be golf, Like, the more emotional you
get and make emotional based decisions, they're usually not better decisions.
Speaker 1: When in your playing career, did you have the epiphany
of I shouldn't be emotional? How where were you? Do
you remember that moment? It's like, oh, this has got
to change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean for me again, because none of this
really was a thing before twenty fourteen and.
Speaker 3: Or you know, really the mid early two.
Speaker 2: Thousands, And for me, that kind of breaking point was college.
Speaker 3: You know, I was a high recruit.
Speaker 2: I played pretty solid my freshman year, and then it
didn't play as well as sophomore in junior year, and
actually I missed the travel team for postseason junior year,
and that was kind of the breaking point, like I
should be I'm good enough, I have the talent, Like
I shouldn't be missing this, Like why am I not
playing better golf? And it was good because I took
ownership of like man, like I wasn't wrong, like I
truly just didn't play well, and like I need to
do something different. I need to play better. I need
to like untap my potential more. And that was kind
of when the strokes gain stuff was really becoming more
prevalent and like, hey, this is being introduced, like you know,
keep track of your things. And I've always enjoyed math.
I've always enjoyed statistics. It's just kind of been like
a second language for me. So it became this journey
of like, oh, this is really cool. Now I can
apply it to the sport that I love playing and
it can help me play better golf, Like I'm eating
this up. And that's kind of like, man, I can't believe,
like I've been playing like such an idiot for so
long in like once you kind of understand like the
grass is green here on the other side, and it's
I got by on a lot of talent alone. And
obviously you can still play a lot of great golf
without strategy, but you're not gonna play optimal, if that
makes sense. And so that's just kind of when I
was forced to then really dive into strokes gain and
good core strategy because my talent only took me so far.
I was running into really good players not playing where
I wanted to play, and it was just like, Okay,
I got to reinvent myself a little bit. So that's
kind of the story behind when that all happened.
Speaker 1: Well, I could be the other title of this episode.
I can't believe I've been playing like such an idiot
because I think relate exactly well, I'll relate to that,
listen to that. I got to listen to that well.
I know that personally, and I hope the Golf Smarter
community will also now have increased interest in following your career.
How can we follow you online and get lessons from you?
What's the best way to track you down?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can follow me at my website course of
Action goolf dot com, also on Instagram, I think it's
Chris Petefish Golf. I'm on a lot of the socials,
but yeah, you can check out my website.
Speaker 3: I got a lot of detail information there.
Speaker 2: You know, how to work with me, what exactly I do,
you can follow, you know where I'm playing, and uh
yeah all that all that good stuff.
Speaker 3: But yeah, listen, I just.
Speaker 2: I think I've been in such a long journey with
this that I definitely kind of feel like, man, let's
kind of share kind of I shouldn't say the secrets,
but like what has really helped me play better?
Speaker 3: And it's it's been.
Speaker 2: Fun and will be fun to help others kind of
achieve what they want to in golf.
Speaker 3: So that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Awesome course of action. Goolf dot com. That's right, Chris.
It's been great talking to you. It's been not only
an education, but it's really a great journey that I
appreciate you so much sharing it with us. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, thanks Fred, thanks for having me on. It's been
it's been really fun.