Speaker 1: Hey, welcome back.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: We don't get to go this time because I've already
Speaker 1: opened my beer.
Speaker 2: You already open your beer, and I'm apparently dry for
Speaker 2: some reason why. I don't know. It's been a busy
Speaker 2: day and I just I didn't get anything. I didn't
Speaker 2: grab alcohol.
Speaker 1: There's always time to grab alcohol.
Speaker 2: Though apparently not for me today. Well next time, next
Speaker 2: time the show.
Speaker 1: I'll drink extra fast to compensate.
Speaker 2: Okay, was that? Yeah, I don't even have water, Like,
Speaker 2: what the heck's going on here?
Speaker 1: You're gonna be parched.
Speaker 2: I know. I think it's because I have to go
Speaker 2: down a ladder. I get it that I'm being lazy, fair.
Speaker 1: Fair, Okay. Our studio sound is awesome. I just got
Speaker 1: to point that out. We've had a couple of people
Speaker 1: talk to us about that and they're like, it sounds
Speaker 1: fucking dope in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is sweet because we were worried a little
Speaker 2: bit about that. Actually.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I just put down a little carpet today too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that sound even.
Speaker 2: More our fancy boho carpet, Boho carpet.
Speaker 1: And bean bags. Ah, it's good. It's nice. I like
Speaker 1: it in this little studio loft.
Speaker 2: It is good. It's like a little it's a little
Speaker 2: uncomfortable ish, but I just have to figure out, like
Speaker 2: we got have to figure out how to sit and
Speaker 2: how it's gonna work.
Speaker 1: We've got to work ourselves into it and get the
Speaker 1: space kind of worked around us and figure out how
Speaker 1: it's how we're gonna make it come us.
Speaker 2: We have to do that for the whole tiny home,
Speaker 2: because I think with tiny I'm living like you have
Speaker 2: to have a spot for everything. Yeah, like everything has
Speaker 2: to have its freaking spot. And we're not quite there yet.
Speaker 2: So it's like a little chaotic still. But it's going
Speaker 2: to get there.
Speaker 1: It's fucking it has.
Speaker 2: To get there. It's going to get there. It is
Speaker 2: positive thinking here.
Speaker 1: Can Can you hear that in my voice though? Do
Speaker 1: I sound a little raspy?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I do. It's from yelling at fan con all weekend?
Speaker 2: What is fan con? We should share that?
Speaker 1: Tell you what fan con is. It's comic book convention.
Speaker 1: I was I was a guest.
Speaker 2: You were a guest?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and invited guests as a content because those who
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm actually a TikToker. I have over one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand followers on TikTok Toot that Horn too,
Speaker 1: and of course Wicked and Graham m but you weren't
Speaker 1: able to join for Wicked and Graham, So it was
Speaker 1: just me as a solo content creator.
Speaker 2: Because I had a massive amount of photoshoots this weekend.
Speaker 1: You will get in your photos on my professional talk.
Speaker 2: Well it's fall. That season is just yeah, yeah, people
Speaker 2: want the pretty fall. Everyone wants fall photos.
Speaker 1: But while I was actually at fan Con, there was
Speaker 1: another podcast that was guesting there, the Dairy Public Radio,
Speaker 1: and they were actually super awesome, So shout out to
Speaker 1: them everyone I got to meet. I did get a selfie,
Speaker 1: so I'll be posting that selfie on her Instagram.
Speaker 2: Oh that's awesome. What was their podcast about.
Speaker 1: Again, Well, let me tell you what it was.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I actually can't remember. It wasn't it like
Speaker 2: Stephen King? Yes, okay, okay, I know you got to.
Speaker 1: Listen to him because I I listened to The Long
Speaker 1: Walk because they talk about the Stephen King. Well it's
Speaker 1: a Stephen King book Club podcast, Okay, so they'll read
Speaker 1: a Stephen King book and they'll read a few chapters
Speaker 1: and they'll do an episode on the few chapters they
Speaker 1: read and they'll talk about it.
Speaker 2: Oh that's kind of fun.
Speaker 1: So I asked him which one they recommended, and I
Speaker 1: was recommended The Long Walk. I've never read the book before,
Speaker 1: but I'm one who spoilers. Don't bother me. It gives
Speaker 1: me something to look forward to my perspective. So anyways,
Speaker 1: I listened to I think it was three episodes for
Speaker 1: The Long Walk. I have to read this fucking book now,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, are you there? Their podcast is awesome.
Speaker 1: So if you guys are interested in Stephen King books
Speaker 1: or a book club podcast, definitely hit up The Dairy
Speaker 1: Public Radio.
Speaker 2: That's kind of fun actually, because I don't know. Sometimes
Speaker 2: I feel like book clubs are kind of clicky and
Speaker 2: like if you're not invited to one, then it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: that's kind of sad. So it's like they're like inviting everyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're inviting everyone to read the book along with
Speaker 1: them and discussions, so it's really cool. Yeah, and me
Speaker 1: being damn near illiterate, it's it's nice that I can
Speaker 1: go at my own pace totally. I Can I can
Speaker 1: read the book when I want and then listen to
Speaker 1: the episode months later when I learn how to pronounce
Speaker 1: certain words.
Speaker 2: Can we also have a correction? Dumb dun dumb.
Speaker 1: Correction, Well, not big time, it's a little thing, but
Speaker 1: it's on, Gabby Potito, it's a big case currently. So
Speaker 1: little Brian is not thirty seven years old.
Speaker 2: No, it's the same age as her right, twenty three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was twenty three years old. Apparently they went
Speaker 1: to the same high school.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was a nasty rumor that got out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we fell victim to when we were researching,
Speaker 1: the rumor was at its peak, at its height, and
Speaker 1: I found several websites that actually said thirty seven years old.
Speaker 2: So when like wildfire, really it really did.
Speaker 1: So correction, Gabby Patito. The whole case with that Brian
Speaker 1: was not thirty seven years old, It was twenty three.
Speaker 2: And now twenty three, and now her body has been
Speaker 2: officially found and it's been officially confirmed and it's been
Speaker 2: a homicide, yes, which is really really shitty.
Speaker 1: It is I haven't actually looked up, do you know
Speaker 1: if they're still looking for Brian?
Speaker 2: As far as I know, because the last. Okay, well,
Speaker 2: hopefully this isn't a rumor. I don't think it is.
Speaker 2: But I saw a new thing about Dog the Bounty I.
Speaker 1: Just googled it and it just came out. Okay, first
Speaker 1: thing that came on it.
Speaker 2: I want to find him.
Speaker 1: Fox News. Dog the Bounty Hunter joins Brian laundry Man
Speaker 1: Hunt says he's received more than one thousand leads. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's the Fox.
Speaker 2: I think I would be like actually shitting my pants
Speaker 2: if that guy was looking for me. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, I would not. I'm sure
Speaker 1: he had his prime when he was good. I think
Speaker 1: he's past that now.
Speaker 2: Does he? Is he? Because he had a TV show? Right?
Speaker 2: Does he still have a TV show? I don't even
Speaker 2: know much about it.
Speaker 1: Does still?
Speaker 2: But anyway, so he's gonna I feel like he has
Speaker 2: to be found. I'm slightly curious though. If he's alive,
Speaker 2: is my one thing, you might have.
Speaker 1: Like made a bolt and has like gone to Mexico
Speaker 1: by now.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But anyway, so that's our little little tidbits. But
Speaker 2: I think at this point we should move on to
Speaker 2: our case.
Speaker 1: Let's move on to the case. Let's do it? What
Speaker 1: do you got?
Speaker 2: I dropped it last week, So if you listened to
Speaker 2: last week, you know what's going on here. But it's
Speaker 2: we're doing a Texas case. Yeah, y'all, y'all, y'all, we're
Speaker 2: doing a Texas case. We actually have a ton of
Speaker 2: listeners from Texas showed out to all of them they're
Speaker 2: for and this case. Okay, Like researching it, I just
Speaker 2: like got a massive amount of goosebumps constantly.
Speaker 1: Oh, do tell why?
Speaker 2: Because like the victims in the story are so young.
Speaker 2: Then they're just like these beautiful girls and they had
Speaker 2: their whole life ahead of them, and it was just
Speaker 2: it was taking the fuck away from them, taking away
Speaker 2: I'm just like not okay with that. It's not cool.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, any murder or anything like that is
Speaker 1: never cool.
Speaker 2: It's not.
Speaker 1: But it just hits home a little harder when the
Speaker 1: victims are young, especially kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, young, and that there was four of them, so, oh,
Speaker 2: already here we go.
Speaker 1: Story started.
Speaker 2: This is the story of the nineteen ninety one Austin
Speaker 2: yogurt shop murders.
Speaker 1: I have heard you talk about this a time or two.
Speaker 2: And it's spoiler alert. I'm just doing a spoiler right
Speaker 2: off the fringing mat here. It's an unsolved case.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love media unsolved.
Speaker 2: I'm just landing on my laptop, which is really freaking weird.
Speaker 1: Cool. We have French doors in the.
Speaker 2: Time, we keep leaving them open, which is a problem.
Speaker 1: It's awesome though, because we're just so nice living the
Speaker 1: outdoors a little bit, even though we don't have a
Speaker 1: deck yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I am spending more time outside,
Speaker 2: which is sweep definitely. Okay. So the fact that this
Speaker 2: shit isn't solved yet is like just beyond me because
Speaker 2: it is such a brutal case and the fact that's
Speaker 2: an individual or individuals like they don't even know that,
Speaker 2: yeah wow got away with this is just wow. Like
Speaker 2: it's just wow, just wow, just just freaking wow.
Speaker 1: Wow. I just heard Owen Wilson come in.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Wow. I can't do one Wilson voice. I could do voices,
Speaker 1: but not Nolan Wilson. Oh, by the way, did I
Speaker 1: tell you that I got some voice acting tips and
Speaker 1: stuff while at fan Con?
Speaker 2: Oh? Right, Actually you said that you were talking to someone,
Speaker 2: but I don't really know if you didn't know you
Speaker 2: got tips.
Speaker 1: Well, I got like a whole spiel and information on
Speaker 1: how to put together a voice demo and all that jazz.
Speaker 2: So huh yeah, we'll get that shit going here.
Speaker 1: I will.
Speaker 2: And I almost just interburped there again. And okay, the
Speaker 2: amount of people that also interburp, like hallelujah. Okay, this
Speaker 2: is a thing.
Speaker 1: Record. I never said it wasn't a thing. I just
Speaker 1: think the term inner burp is really fucked up.
Speaker 2: It's it describes it perfectly. Okay, holy shit. Okay, we're
Speaker 2: sidetracked here, my bad. Okay. So anyway, it was the
Speaker 2: evening of Friday, December sixth, nineteen ninety one. Fourteenage girls,
Speaker 2: seventeen year old Eliza Thomas, seventeen year old Jennifer Harbison,
Speaker 2: fifteen year old Sarah Harborson, Nipper's sister, and thirteen year
Speaker 2: old Amy Ayers, who was Sarah's friend, who were all
Speaker 2: at the shop called I can't believe it's yogurt? Which
Speaker 2: is is.
Speaker 1: That next door to the I can't believe it's not
Speaker 1: butter shop?
Speaker 2: I think so. So this is a chain store that
Speaker 2: serves soft served frozen yogurt.
Speaker 1: Fro y'all ding dang, I like it.
Speaker 2: We used to have a shop like a menschi It
Speaker 2: was called Menchies. I'm not sure if Minchi's is just
Speaker 2: a Canadian thing, but I was suprise.
Speaker 1: I think it's just like a chain because I'm pretty
Speaker 1: they had like a wall of celebrities and there was
Speaker 1: a bunch of like American.
Speaker 2: But anyway, our freaking its closed and that's kind of shitty.
Speaker 2: We obviously didn't support it enough.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not surprised because I mean, it wasn't in
Speaker 1: a very good location. And also, like an ice cream
Speaker 1: shop in Canada, people go there for like warm weather and.
Speaker 2: Foraking half a year is cold here.
Speaker 1: Like two to three months of summer, so that.
Speaker 2: Would be hard for them.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah three months of summer tops well technically yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this particular shop was part of the Hillside
Speaker 2: Strip Center in Austin. Jennifer and Eliza were employees of
Speaker 2: the store, while Sarah and Amy had ventured over from
Speaker 2: the mall, which was a few blocks away. And we're
Speaker 2: just in the back of the store hanging out and
Speaker 2: helping Eliza and Jennifer close. Basically, they're just waiting for
Speaker 2: Jennifer to give them a ride home, you know, A
Speaker 2: little sibling. Right, So the yogurt shop was set to
Speaker 2: close at eleven pm. The girls were doing such thing
Speaker 2: as cleaning, stalking napkin holders, putting up chairs to sweep
Speaker 2: and mop the floor, and helping the last of the customers.
Speaker 2: When I was like researching that, it almost like brought
Speaker 2: me back to my Tim Horton's days and the amount
Speaker 2: of shit that you have to do to like keep
Speaker 2: up with these kind of stores. It's just uugh, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I could imagine. And also I in the back of
Speaker 1: my head was like, who's getting froyo at eleven pm?
Speaker 1: And then I also realized.
Speaker 2: That we would.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure we did at Menchies multiple times
Speaker 1: do that, so I know, yeah, I can't knock that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually thought it was kind of a late
Speaker 2: time to be open, but I don't know, it obviously
Speaker 2: opened for a reason that late, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's obviously selling merchant stuff then, so.
Speaker 2: And they're froo I didn't have this in here, But
Speaker 2: some people were like kind of against the fact that
Speaker 2: they it was that late and the girls were that
Speaker 2: young and closing, But I mean like seventeen years old. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I feel like that it's okay.
Speaker 1: I think so too.
Speaker 2: So obviously they were responsible, right, and there was like
Speaker 2: it wasn't just like it was one of them. Yeah, however, okay,
Speaker 2: so back to this, they're closing down shop. However, there
Speaker 2: was one table that didn't get put to other for
Speaker 2: the night, and that's because it was occupied by two men.
Speaker 2: There are a few people in and out of the
Speaker 2: yogurt shop shortly before clothes, and a few of them
Speaker 2: didn't get the best of vibes about these individuals that
Speaker 2: occupied this particular table. One woman wanted to ask if
Speaker 2: the girls are all right before she left, but the
Speaker 2: girls seemed fine, so she went against her gut, got
Speaker 2: her frolio and left the shop. Oh shit, Oh, like
Speaker 2: you gotta listen to those gut feelings. I think, not
Speaker 2: that I think she should regret this or like blame herself,
Speaker 2: but I mean if I always regret not listening to
Speaker 2: my gut feelings because they're there for a reason. I think,
Speaker 2: do you.
Speaker 1: Mind if I go off on a little bit of
Speaker 1: a tangent here, complete different story something I read on
Speaker 1: a Reddit thread today. Sure it's Kim. It was like
Speaker 1: this creepy stories thing, right, and so it's like you know,
Speaker 1: what's a real story that you'll never forget, something that
Speaker 1: actually happened to you, like creepy as fuck. So this
Speaker 1: person was like at a train station waiting for their
Speaker 1: like super late train, and they had like a couple
Speaker 1: hours to kill. So they're walking around these platforms and stuff,
Speaker 1: and they saw this little girl standing there like alone,
Speaker 1: like in an empty platform and no one's around. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's like almost super creepy and like dark and shit.
Speaker 1: So they're like, okay, well, they went with their gut.
Speaker 1: They wanted to make sure this little girl was okay,
Speaker 1: but they didn't want to like bother her. So he
Speaker 1: sat down on a nearby bench and like just kind
Speaker 1: of watched her. Twenty five minutes goes by in total,
Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, someone's got to come soon. Maybe
Speaker 1: the mom just went to the bathroom, all this sort
Speaker 1: of shit. Little girl never moved a muscle the whole time.
Speaker 1: I'm expediting this story, by the way, so there's not
Speaker 1: much dispense in it. But eventually the person's like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go up and like I got to ask
Speaker 1: this little girl up. They're okay, because they're just like
Speaker 1: standing there, just staring at me, not moving a muscle
Speaker 1: for dwann near half an hour. So they go over
Speaker 1: to the little girl and it's a statue of like
Speaker 1: like a lego little girl bill just sitting there on
Speaker 1: the platform.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I feel like after that long time
Speaker 2: that you would like realize.
Speaker 1: But they took there was cell phone video or photos
Speaker 1: of it, and like from a distance where they were sitting,
Speaker 1: it looked legit like a little girl standing there. And
Speaker 1: then as you get up close and then yeah, they
Speaker 1: took a photo. It's just like a bunch of these
Speaker 1: like giant lego blocks put into a little girl.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. I know, like in this scenario, I
Speaker 2: was feeling like if she had this gut feeling she
Speaker 2: could even she was there so close to close, I
Speaker 2: guess she could have just like waited in the parking lot.
Speaker 2: But then still, like at some point you do have
Speaker 2: to just live your life. I guess then it at home.
Speaker 2: I don't know something like that is about to happen
Speaker 2: exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: And also like if these little if these young women
Speaker 1: are seventeen years old and everything like that, would this
Speaker 1: have changed if they were twenty four, if they were
Speaker 1: a little bit older. Would this incident.
Speaker 3: Oh, like you know, yeah, because people were saying maybe
Speaker 3: they're too young to not Probably not really so if anything,
Speaker 3: if they were that old, they wouldn't have probably had
Speaker 3: their little sibling and friend in the back.
Speaker 2: I guess, right, so maybe probably. Oh yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: less victims then.
Speaker 1: I guess technically probably.
Speaker 2: Oh that's like, yeah, that was supposed to be helpful,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't. So thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I was just trying to like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what I was trying to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently I was not helping some of Yeah, that
Speaker 2: was not help I've been.
Speaker 1: Talking lots anyways, so I'm zipping it.
Speaker 2: Okay. So it wasn't until eleven forty seven pm that
Speaker 2: police officer Troy Gay, who was patrolling the area, reports
Speaker 2: a fire at the cat that I can't believe it's
Speaker 2: yogurt shop. The fire department showed up. They did their job.
Speaker 2: They put the fire out without even a thought that
Speaker 2: this could be any more than just a fire, don't don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know where this is going.
Speaker 2: As they were doing their post fire walkthrough, you know,
Speaker 2: making sure the fire was completely out, they got a
Speaker 2: glimpse a glimpse of what appeared to be a human
Speaker 2: charred foot, which was their initial discovery of what would
Speaker 2: be three charred black bodies to the point of beyond recognition.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, so three, you said, right?
Speaker 2: Three? So at this point Detective John Jones was called
Speaker 2: to the scene and as he was en route, he
Speaker 2: got an update that a fourth body was found.
Speaker 1: There's the fourth but also Detective John Jones. How badass
Speaker 1: of a detective name is that? Undetective John Jones.
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool get these. It seemed like he did
Speaker 2: a good job all times. Yeah, yeah, he did a
Speaker 2: good good job. There's we'll get to that. But anyway,
Speaker 2: it's claimed that this was the day Austin lost its innocence.
Speaker 1: Oh shit.
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety one, Austin was not the size of
Speaker 2: the town it is today. In the nineteen nineties, the
Speaker 2: population was about four hundred and fifty thousand, where today
Speaker 2: it's more than doubled in size. And back then they
Speaker 2: did not have like a lot of violent crimes. But
Speaker 2: I was also like, thinking back to like the nineties,
Speaker 2: I feel like shit's just gotten worse since then, Like
Speaker 2: and then back then worst was stuff as violent? Well,
Speaker 2: were there as many violent crimes.
Speaker 1: There's oh, definitely. I think it was what I think
Speaker 1: the seventies and the eighties was like the height of
Speaker 1: like serial killers. Like I can't remember what they call it,
Speaker 1: but it's like literally the serial killer era. There's a
Speaker 1: name they've named it. But so definitely. Just nowadays, there's
Speaker 1: so much social media and worldwide like reach that people's
Speaker 1: stories are just all over the place. You wake up
Speaker 1: you see murder stories constantly because you're seeing it from
Speaker 1: around the world. In the nineties, it's just usually you
Speaker 1: hear about one or two on the radio from globally
Speaker 1: and then in the paper for locally.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean too, I guess said that age. I
Speaker 2: was just living my life, making my mud pies. Just
Speaker 2: sh it just seemed simpler than it does now. And
Speaker 2: I feel like the world's going to hell sometimes.
Speaker 1: But it was chasing frogs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look at us go. It's good combo.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, as Detective Jones entered the flooded scene, his initial
Speaker 2: response was, holy shit, holy shit. The bodies of the
Speaker 2: four girls were burnt so badly their melted bodies had
Speaker 2: become part of the floor. They were naked, bound and
Speaker 2: gagged with their own clothes, their legs spread, one girl
Speaker 2: having an ice cream scoop left inside of her shit.
Speaker 2: Each girl had been shot in the head.
Speaker 1: That's fucking disgusting.
Speaker 2: So that paints a little bit of a poor visual.
Speaker 2: I'm quite sorry.
Speaker 1: I guarantee you that melted the butter next door that
Speaker 1: I can't believe it's not butter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that ship must have been definitely melted. Is that
Speaker 2: the still thing? I can't believe it's not butter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like the margins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but do they still make that even margin?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well that kind of margin?
Speaker 1: Oh? Probably? What kind was it? Was it? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm like not into margarine where we've totally switched to
Speaker 2: butter in this all the way. You resisted, so don't
Speaker 2: even that.
Speaker 1: Okay, I did resist for.
Speaker 2: The longest time, and it was just like unbelievable that
Speaker 2: you kept resisting.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, to be fair, to be fair, I've always
Speaker 1: been pro butter for cooking. Yeah, but on toast.
Speaker 2: Because margin is more convenient.
Speaker 1: Yes, because the spreadability my gosh.
Speaker 2: Okay, anyway, now that you know like our butter margin
Speaker 2: in preference, here, I'll describe the shop and seen a
Speaker 2: bit more. As you enter the shop, there's a row
Speaker 2: of booths on your left and you're right with some
Speaker 2: tables in the middle. The table that didn't get put
Speaker 2: together for the night, So where the two men were
Speaker 2: sitting was on the row of booths on the left,
Speaker 2: closest to the counter. Then you had the front counter
Speaker 2: and just under half the store, Like it seemed like
Speaker 2: the back end of the store was huge. I don't,
Speaker 2: I don't know why. That just seemed weird to me.
Speaker 2: But just under half the store was the back room,
Speaker 2: which consisted they had like a walk and cooler, storage, washrooms,
Speaker 2: office bathroom. Oh office, I don't I have office bathrooms.
Speaker 2: It's not an office bath office rooms. Yeah. So I
Speaker 2: have bathrooms in there twice and a prep like area.
Speaker 2: And the one thing that is kind of odd is
Speaker 2: like those bathrooms, even though they were behind the counter,
Speaker 2: I think that they were forget for people coming to
Speaker 2: the restaurant, which I thought was really odd. Because we'll
Speaker 2: kind of talk a little bit more about it.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was like a location that they came into
Speaker 1: and it was just like they just made what it
Speaker 1: was the lay it was work for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be because I think like lots of
Speaker 2: times when you're serving food, like you almost legally have
Speaker 2: to have a bathroom or something. So all of the
Speaker 2: bodies were found in the back room area. Two of
Speaker 2: the bodies, Sarah and Eliza, were found stacked on top
Speaker 2: of each other, with Jennifer's body right next to them,
Speaker 2: and Amy was a little further away, closer to the
Speaker 2: entrance from the back room to like the main open area.
Speaker 2: It's unsure if this is the way the killers had
Speaker 2: left the bodies, or if the forest from the water
Speaker 2: when they were putting out the fire left them like this.
Speaker 2: Some reports say all the bodies were stacked and the
Speaker 2: water had unstacked them like the pressure from the hoses,
Speaker 2: and some say the water have potentially slacked or stacked
Speaker 2: the bodies of Sarah and Eliza, or it's not. The
Speaker 2: initial gunshot Amy received didn't kill her, and she started
Speaker 2: crawling away trying to escape disturbing the pile, but was
Speaker 2: found and shot again. She because she was actually the
Speaker 2: only girl with a second gunshot wound to the head.
Speaker 1: Oh really, Oh shit, that's very likely then.
Speaker 2: So it could definitely have been a possibility.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is really sad to kind of think about that.
Speaker 1: Being that situation, Like, imagine trying to crawl away from
Speaker 1: that scene with a wound like that tear head. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, that poor girl, I know.
Speaker 2: And that was here. Let me just I'm pretty sure
Speaker 2: Amy was the youngest one. Oh no, So where am
Speaker 2: I here? What are you doing to I'm so sorry? Okay,
Speaker 2: it's a very okay, I told you this case, like
Speaker 2: I literally conte it goosebumps because I just like felt
Speaker 2: so wrig and bad. Okay. So Amy's body also wasn't
Speaker 2: burnt to the extent the other girls were, so would
Speaker 2: be slightly helpful to the investigation. It was her body
Speaker 2: that gave Detective Jones and indication that sexual assault had occurred.
Speaker 2: The other three girls bodies the.
Speaker 1: Ice creams gup didn't give that away.
Speaker 2: Well, she was the one with the ice creamy, Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: So the other three girl's bodies were so burnt they
Speaker 2: were beyond recognition. It's unknown if the three girls were
Speaker 2: covered in like accelerant at the start of the fire.
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, holy heck, where am I here? Okay? It's
Speaker 2: unknown if the three girls were covered with accelerant and
Speaker 2: were like the start of the fire or if the
Speaker 2: storage shelf beside them was like the origin of the fire.
Speaker 1: Well, either way, that's kind of I mean, do they
Speaker 1: just like splash gas all over sort of thing? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Is that a cat getting Is Kiwi doing some shit?
Speaker 2: No, I can hear weird things going on down there.
Speaker 1: I think he's I think he's being a dick. Kiwi,
Speaker 1: stop being a dick.
Speaker 2: We can hear everything that's going on in earls now,
Speaker 2: which is so funny. Okay, well they're okay. I'm about
Speaker 2: to kind of go into something here because there was
Speaker 2: a few investigation errors in this case errors and the
Speaker 2: girls not being tested for that act yeah was one
Speaker 2: of them because when it came to questioning the accuse,
Speaker 2: it prevented the investigators from having all the facts basically right.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I don't like, it doesn't seem like
Speaker 2: a huge air. But then when they are trying to
Speaker 2: get confessions or whatever, like they technically didn't know all
Speaker 2: the facts really right, That makes sense. So it does
Speaker 2: make sense.
Speaker 1: I was like, why does it matter where the fire
Speaker 1: was started the shelf for them? But when it comes
Speaker 1: down to actual questioning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, questions, the small more, you know, the better, right,
Speaker 2: So a few other noteworthy errors made was the bathroom
Speaker 2: didn't get dusted for prints, and earlier that evening there
Speaker 2: had been unquestionable individual who went in the back to
Speaker 2: use the bathroom. They also didn't check the lock on
Speaker 2: the back door to see if it was tampered with,
Speaker 2: and the back door had actually been left propped open,
Speaker 2: So whoever did this could have propped the door open
Speaker 2: at some point maybe and they were thinking it could
Speaker 2: have potentially even been that questionable man using the bathroom
Speaker 2: and he wasn't actually using the bathroom, but he was
Speaker 2: going in the back to prop the door open, and
Speaker 2: once the shop had closed, like people entered that way, right.
Speaker 2: There are also a few items that were missed being
Speaker 2: collected or saved, and it's hard to say if these
Speaker 2: things would have helped solve a case, but you never know,
Speaker 2: Right the fuck.
Speaker 1: John Jones, get on your shit with John Jones, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: detective high expectations for him with that name.
Speaker 2: But okay, I also, I mean okay, I also think
Speaker 2: it's human nature to later like question how you potentially
Speaker 2: handle the situation and is definitely twenty twenty if there
Speaker 2: was things that you could have done differently or better
Speaker 2: but I mean, I guess when it's like in a
Speaker 2: murder investigation, it's kind of a harder pill to swallow, right, Yeah, fair,
Speaker 2: there isn't a lot that can be done to help
Speaker 2: the parent's cope, especially like okay, not that one parent
Speaker 2: has worse, but the one that like lost both. I
Speaker 2: feel like, yeah, there was like one thing I was
Speaker 2: reading or watching and she had gotten a knock like
Speaker 2: on the door at three in the morning, basically like
Speaker 2: informing her that her daughters were dead. Yeah, Like, I
Speaker 2: just that is right there to me, is like just
Speaker 2: a reason to never have children.
Speaker 1: There, Well, I mean, she was probably sitting there, like
Speaker 1: where are my daughters? Like she's probably she's not sleeping,
Speaker 1: She's waiting for her daughters to get home guaranteed.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, because it depends if they were
Speaker 2: sleeping over at the I don't know they like or
Speaker 2: they came they were going to be home late. Like
Speaker 2: she could have already been sleeping, right, Like she might
Speaker 2: not necessarily have been like where are they waiting? But
Speaker 2: I just I just feel like that's just such a
Speaker 2: fear that anyone could have, like getting a phone call
Speaker 2: or getting a knock on the door in the middle
Speaker 2: of the night, to getting news like that is just
Speaker 2: the most heart wrenching shit I can think I can
Speaker 2: think of, Yeah, brutal anyway, Sorry, we're just we're just
Speaker 2: really pulling at the heart strings.
Speaker 1: Today, no kidding.
Speaker 2: Wow, So anyway, I mean.
Speaker 1: I don't have tissues the dishes because you're going to
Speaker 1: be a river today.
Speaker 2: So what I was say something saying is like, there's
Speaker 2: not a lot to help the parents, but I feel
Speaker 2: like maybe knowing that the people responsible for the crime
Speaker 2: or locked up might be the tiniest of helpful, a
Speaker 2: little bit of yeah, knowing that they're not out there
Speaker 2: potentially like doing that to someone else. So a lot
Speaker 2: of evidence was also destroyed in the fire. The fire
Speaker 2: needed to be put out, but in doing so, forensic
Speaker 2: evidence also could have been washed away and destroyed.
Speaker 1: Yep, especially with a high pressure.
Speaker 2: And they didn't even know what there was a I know,
Speaker 2: they had no idea.
Speaker 1: Just like I'm sure we're walking everywhere and like tearing
Speaker 1: shit down. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So but then this brings me to say, like, I'm
Speaker 2: not entirely certain if there would have been a different
Speaker 2: way to put out a fire than having known that
Speaker 2: there was a crime scene inside, right, But it was
Speaker 2: mentioned had they known prior to the extent of the crime,
Speaker 2: they probably would have done things differently. Oh that Like anyway,
Speaker 2: there may have been different ways of gathering evidence, and
Speaker 2: a lack of evidence in this case could be why
Speaker 2: it's not potentially solved, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's exactly why they lit the fire too,
Speaker 1: clearly to try and get rid of evidence, and clearly
Speaker 1: it fucking worked.
Speaker 2: I feel like that. Yeah, that's probably why you would
Speaker 2: light a fire. I've heard of that in other cases.
Speaker 2: It gets I would imagine it gets rid of well,
Speaker 2: it gets rid of a lot of things, which yeah,
Speaker 2: kind of yeah, there you go. People even do that
Speaker 2: to the houses and shit. Insurance Like the fire is
Speaker 2: an interesting thing.
Speaker 1: Although it's like investigators can get real specific unburned patterns
Speaker 1: and shit, and they can pretty much usually pinpoint.
Speaker 2: Which is why yeah, I know, like even okay, even
Speaker 2: forest fires. Yeah, and they can like pinpoint where it
Speaker 2: started and if it was like started by a cigarette
Speaker 2: or something. That is just like my mind, fuck, how
Speaker 2: do you learn that shit? Like that's some smart ship?
Speaker 1: Where is this school that you learned that this is
Speaker 1: the cigarette burn that burned this forest down like what I.
Speaker 2: Know, I know, I wouldn't even know where to begin
Speaker 2: at the cigarette apparently apparently, or just find the person
Speaker 2: that knows. Yeah, okay, So a few more details I
Speaker 2: wanted to mention. About five hundred dollars was taken from
Speaker 2: the cash register at eleven oh three. There's record that
Speaker 2: Eliza hit the button on the cash register for no
Speaker 2: charge sale, indicating that there was a robbery aspect to
Speaker 2: this crime as well. Yeah, it's not known if this
Speaker 2: was the main motive, but being that it was just
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars and it appeared the girls freely handed
Speaker 2: over the money, it wouldn't seem so like I feel
Speaker 2: like if you were doing something to get money, like,
Speaker 2: would you pick the frickin' fro Yo shop?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't think so, right.
Speaker 1: Unless you're like super desperate sort of thing. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: if you're super desperate, you probably don't have the means
Speaker 1: of having a firearm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, most likely, I think it's probably like a sexual
Speaker 2: assault thing more so, Right, it just doesn't seem like
Speaker 2: it would be a robbery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they most likely probably went in with sexual assault
Speaker 1: in mind, and just like let's get cash while we're
Speaker 1: at it.
Speaker 2: Because something I didn't even mention, or that I don't
Speaker 2: have written down in here, but some reports kind of
Speaker 2: said it could have been people following the young girls
Speaker 2: from the mall to this yogurt chop or something, right,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. So as I had mentioned,
Speaker 2: all the girls were shot in the head with a
Speaker 2: twenty two caliber gune, I meant to look that up.
Speaker 1: Here's the twenty two calibar again. It's a twenty two
Speaker 1: caliber is really popular for like shooting people in the head.
Speaker 1: Definitely shows it could have been premeditated, okay, because twenty
Speaker 1: two's don't exit the skull, right, Well, it goes in
Speaker 1: and it doesn't exit. It goes in the skull, It
Speaker 1: bounces around a couple times, like scrambles your fucking brain
Speaker 1: and sure's you're dead usually and it's not messy, it's
Speaker 1: not blown out. And yeah, how cool and quiet is Finn?
Speaker 2: How big is this gun?
Speaker 1: Small?
Speaker 2: Is it small?
Speaker 1: Okay's super small?
Speaker 2: I need to like research my guns here, but I
Speaker 2: also feel like my Google history is fucked up enough,
Speaker 2: and maybe I just won't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we might be getting on a knocking our door
Speaker 1: one these days.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, oh, if anyone would look there,
Speaker 2: I'm just like, holy shit. Yeah, okay, but Amy was
Speaker 2: shot twice, as I had mentioned, and the second shot
Speaker 2: to her head was actually done with a different weapon,
Speaker 2: a larger caliber weapon nine millimeter. Oh gosh, I can't remember.
Speaker 1: You did never reri down.
Speaker 2: No. A three eighty. Is that larger? Maybe like a
Speaker 2: hunting rifle. I don't know. It said it was like
Speaker 2: a much bigger okay, weapon, which isn't super important which
Speaker 2: kind of weapon, But what is kind of important and
Speaker 2: interesting is that it indicates that there was probably more
Speaker 2: than one person, right, because would you be like packing
Speaker 2: both guns like I seem like it would indicate that
Speaker 2: there was more than one person.
Speaker 1: Most likely, even if you are packing multiple guns, you're
Speaker 1: probably gonna use the same one that's in your fucking
Speaker 1: hand rather than swapping them out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Amy also had a bruise under her chin,
Speaker 2: indicating that she had been struck, and also had showed
Speaker 2: signs of being strangled. These poor girls, so like they
Speaker 2: they really just went through hell. So once the autopsy reports.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just came up with a really and
Speaker 1: it's I know it's super dark, but I came up
Speaker 1: with a funny tagline.
Speaker 2: Okay, because shop, he'll just froze over.
Speaker 1: Oh my, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but it just popped
Speaker 1: in there and I had to share it.
Speaker 2: Sorry, here, you're just making everything way worse. Sorry, sorry, sorry,
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Okay, it was good.
Speaker 1: You have to have me that.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I'll give you that. I'll give you that.
Speaker 1: It was super fucking dark. It was good.
Speaker 2: My gosh, Sorry, I digress. Continue Oh are we ready
Speaker 2: to continue? Like? I need a moment here. Okay. So,
Speaker 2: once the autopsy reports were finalized on the girls, the
Speaker 2: police decided to see I was gonna say steal, but
Speaker 2: that doesn't make any sense. Seal the reports, so like
Speaker 2: keep them to themselves, right, This was this way, once
Speaker 2: they received confession, they would be able to know if
Speaker 2: it was was a match to what actually had happened.
Speaker 2: And I didn't really think this was this would be
Speaker 2: something that investigators had to worry about. But apparently, like
Speaker 2: false confess confessions are a thing, and this case had
Speaker 2: many of them, which is so wild to me.
Speaker 1: I new false confessions were a thing, but like many really.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is this is wild? At one point the
Speaker 2: pool of suspects was three hundred and forty two people,
Speaker 2: holy shit, and they had dozens of false confessions. WHOA,
Speaker 2: Like what the fuck? Really? I was just like what? Why?
Speaker 2: Like why? So that's like just not normal. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think there's probably generally a pool of suspects, but
Speaker 2: it's not like three hundred and forty two. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: there aren't usually dozens of false confessions.
Speaker 1: What if one of those confessions is legit?
Speaker 2: I know, like it's almost like what they even know,
Speaker 2: Like it just it just takes some taking up all
Speaker 2: the resources of the investigators to have to deal with
Speaker 2: all this shit. Yeah, okay, well guess what. We just
Speaker 2: took a tiny break. So the dogs were being jerks.
Speaker 1: One was pacing around and the other one was starting
Speaker 1: to get.
Speaker 2: I guess what. I got a Drink's best break ever?
Speaker 1: Right? My drinks almost empty. I should have got one from.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you screwed up. And I'm like constantly just literally
Speaker 2: changing up lately. I'm drinking a twisted tea. Now, I've
Speaker 2: been drinking smear and offs, and I'm drinking local shit.
Speaker 2: It's just I'm all over the fricking place. Let's do
Speaker 2: Margarita's one day.
Speaker 1: We have, but we need to again, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: We have? That was the best? Okay, Okay, who we're
Speaker 2: diving in here? So this is a bit of a
Speaker 2: side note. Okay, where the heck were we here? Okay,
Speaker 2: so this is a side note. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: go into many details of all the confessions that occurred,
Speaker 2: but one of them I am going to because it's
Speaker 2: just interesting. So it was Kenneth Alan McDuff, and some
Speaker 2: people may reckon that name because he was a serial killer,
Speaker 2: so suspected of at least fourteen murders and it could
Speaker 2: be a case we even do one day. So in
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six, he murdered three teens and it was
Speaker 2: dubbed the broomstick murders because, oh, have you heard of that?
Speaker 1: I heard?
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I hadn't heard of that, because one of
Speaker 2: the victims, necks, was broken with a broomstick after she
Speaker 2: was apparently repeatedly, repeatedly raped, which sounds absolutely brutal. Anyway,
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty nine, and this I just can't even
Speaker 2: believe I'm able to read this. Due to prison overcrowding,
Speaker 2: Kenneth was paroled, but it is believed after he was released,
Speaker 2: he committed many more murders. Fuck, like because the prison
Speaker 2: was overcrowded. Is that like a joke?
Speaker 1: Yeah, way to fail Like.
Speaker 2: That is just not okay. He was taken back into
Speaker 2: custody and sent to death row, but the day of
Speaker 2: his execution, he confessed to the yogurt shop murders. Being
Speaker 2: such a last minute confession, it was believed this was
Speaker 2: a last straw of stopping his execution. Okay, but it
Speaker 2: did not. And either way, they looked into it and
Speaker 2: determined that he didn't commit the crime. Okay, Okay, So
Speaker 2: and I think that that just is probably a smart
Speaker 2: thing for criminals to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just trying to tell the inevitable sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Oh actually I did this. Well, shit, now we got
Speaker 1: to look into it.
Speaker 2: Because they feel like they may need him, yeah, for
Speaker 2: something or whatever. Right, Okay, So that was the little
Speaker 2: the little side note back to the main story. Eight
Speaker 2: days after the murders, investigators got a tip to look
Speaker 2: into a teenager named Maurice Pearce. This particular sixteen year
Speaker 2: old was apparently seen with a twenty two caliber gun
Speaker 2: at the same mall. Sarah and Amy were at before
Speaker 2: heading to the yogurt shop the night of the murders.
Speaker 2: During questioning, Maurice said he'd lent the gun to his
Speaker 2: friend Forrest Wellborn, and that he and that he Forrest
Speaker 2: used the gun to commit the yogurt shop murders. Like
Speaker 2: way to throw your I mean I shouldn't. I was like,
Speaker 2: way to throw your friend under the bus.
Speaker 1: But so he's saying he knew his friend did it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what he was saying.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
Speaker 2: Forrest was then obviously brought in for questioning, but told
Speaker 2: investigators that he and Maurice and their friends Robert Springsteen
Speaker 2: and Michael Scott had stolen an SUV the knight of
Speaker 2: the murders and taken it on a joy ride to
Speaker 2: San And where was it? I think I spelled that wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm still hung up on Michael Spoft.
Speaker 2: I know I knew you would San Antinio, I think,
Speaker 2: but I think I spelt that really weird. Hopefully that
Speaker 2: was the right place. I don't know how close that.
Speaker 1: Is to San Antonio.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, okay, sorry, I butchered it and I
Speaker 2: guess I didn't anyway, It's underlined and I never fixed it,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, what the shit does that say?
Speaker 1: Is it San Antonio?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: Is that close to Houston?
Speaker 1: I have no idea my geography is.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, someone will tell us it probably is,
Speaker 2: hopefully anyway, if that's a joy they went on a joy, right,
Speaker 2: so I'm assuming that it's semi close anyway. This then
Speaker 2: put Robert and Michael Scott. I don't think all just
Speaker 2: have to always see Michael Scott on the police radar
Speaker 2: as well. After length lengthy questioning, Detective Jones and his
Speaker 2: team dismiss Maurice as a suspect, concluding that he was lying.
Speaker 2: Detective Joanes said it became very clear that neither Maurice
Speaker 2: nor Forrest had any connection to the crime, saying Forrest
Speaker 2: had no clue. He couldn't organize a two car parade.
Speaker 1: So why would he throw his friend under the bustle
Speaker 1: like that?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 1: Like what a dick?
Speaker 2: I know, I just thought that was kind of odd,
Speaker 2: but I don't know. He was young. He was probably
Speaker 2: like kind of intimidated and just like didn't want him.
Speaker 2: But like, if that's your friend, like.
Speaker 1: I don't know, that makes me seriously suspicious of him,
Speaker 1: like trying to throw the heat elsewhere, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, his gun was also tested though, and was not
Speaker 2: a match to the murder weapon.
Speaker 1: So, like, would they test the rifling or what I'm assuming?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I don't know, I don't know what you
Speaker 2: test some guns. You're putting me on the rifling.
Speaker 1: It's basically the fingerprint of the gun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they tested that and it didn't match.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay.
Speaker 2: That was not the end of their story, though. I
Speaker 2: feel like you think, you think that, you're already thinking
Speaker 2: it's not but this is probably not gonna end the
Speaker 2: way you thought.
Speaker 1: You think It's not gonna end the way I thought
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay. So, although the case was never entirely abandoned,
Speaker 2: Detective Jones got promoted, and it wasn't until nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 2: eight years after the crime, that a new team of
Speaker 2: investigators would target these four boys now men once again
Speaker 2: and bring them back in for questioning.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: So at this point two of them would confess to
Speaker 2: the killings. Really, Michael Scott confessed to the killings, and
Speaker 2: Robert Springsteen also confessed to killing the girls and raping
Speaker 2: one of them. The police at this point were convened
Speaker 2: that they had their killers. In October sixth, nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 2: all four men were arrested, the theory being that the
Speaker 2: four boys had planned to rob the yolkret shop, with Michael,
Speaker 2: Robert and Maurice entering the shop while Forrest waited outside
Speaker 2: to on like lookout. Yeah, okay, but that something went
Speaker 2: terribly wrong during the robbery and that all girls were killed.
Speaker 2: That just like doesn't make any sense. It doesn't add up,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: So then you're telling me all four boys committed very
Speaker 1: horrific indecent acts on these girls' corpses.
Speaker 2: I know, because this if you're going in there for
Speaker 2: robbery and shit didn't go right, and then you act,
Speaker 2: yeah accidentally I don't know, killed people, would you also
Speaker 2: accidentally rape them?
Speaker 1: Right? And Cleary, shit did go right because they willingly
Speaker 1: opened the till to give the money, so they.
Speaker 2: Got what they went in there for. Like, I don't
Speaker 2: think the girls would have opposed to just giving them
Speaker 2: the till money.
Speaker 1: Eight four girls and four boys, and especially the boys
Speaker 1: having guns a learned and lock store, they're not gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna.
Speaker 2: Give them the money. Yeah, yeah, like guaranteed.
Speaker 1: They may fight is when it comes to the sexual assault. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and they may not have because they may have had
Speaker 1: a gun to their fucking head.
Speaker 2: So I should note though, that both Forrest and Maurice
Speaker 2: stayed true, saying that they were not involved. The authorities
Speaker 2: tried twice to accuse Forrest for the murders, but they
Speaker 2: lacked the evidence. There was actually no physical evidence linking
Speaker 2: any of the men to the scene, so all the
Speaker 2: charges against Forrest were dropped and charges against Maurice were
Speaker 2: also dropped due to a lack of evidence. So it
Speaker 2: was just Robert and Michael who went to trial.
Speaker 1: So is Maurice changing his story then, because he originally
Speaker 1: said Forrest did it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they at that point like it was just kids,
Speaker 2: like almost like making up shit, right. I just feel
Speaker 2: like then for them this long later to be like
Speaker 2: going through this again is just like wild.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm convinced that well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm almost convinced that the two they have weren't involved
Speaker 1: and the two that they don't have were.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of where the ones, Okay, the ones
Speaker 2: that are just like keeping quiet, Yeah, the two that.
Speaker 1: Are denying it. Forrest and Maurice, I'm convinced they are involved,
Speaker 1: and the two they you have aren't involved. I almost
Speaker 1: feel like there's some sort of like blackmail shit going
Speaker 1: on where they're taking the fall.
Speaker 2: I don't know, We're gonna dive in here a little deeper.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna buckle up.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Fuck.
Speaker 2: So Robert and Michael went to trial, and Robert and
Speaker 2: Michael were both found guilty of murder. Robert received the
Speaker 2: death penalty and Michael was sentenced to ninety nine years
Speaker 2: in prison. And I say Robert was sentenced to the
Speaker 2: death penalty. He hasn't like received the death penalty. But
Speaker 2: before we go off and celebrate these victories, this emotional
Speaker 2: rollercoaster shit is not over. So not long after the
Speaker 2: trials some concerns were brought for it, concerns that suggested
Speaker 2: maybe Robert and Michael were innocent and actually didn't have
Speaker 2: anything to do with the murder I had mentioned earlier.
Speaker 2: No physical evidence was attached linking either of these men
Speaker 2: to the scene, and apparently they had confessed to the
Speaker 2: murders under rugged interrogation by this new detective, Hector Polinko.
Speaker 1: I think is his name Hector Polinko.
Speaker 2: And this rugged interrogation is like kind of an understatement,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to give you some examples.
Speaker 1: Shit, they like beat these kids.
Speaker 2: I guess they were, they were at us. So Michael
Speaker 2: Scott was questioned for twelve.
Speaker 1: Hours, holy shit, twelve hours.
Speaker 2: On September ninth, nineteen ninety nine. He was questioned again
Speaker 2: the next day, and questioned again on September thirteen, this
Speaker 2: resulting in over twenty hours of videotaped interrogation. Like this
Speaker 2: is a long time to be questioned about something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard like Terrrigos going like eight hours and
Speaker 1: stuff like that's that's a long time. But they're doing
Speaker 1: that on purpose to break you. Yeah, but like twelve
Speaker 1: hours and then back to back like the next day
Speaker 1: and shit like hold fuck.
Speaker 2: But like in my opinion, like because yeah, some would
Speaker 2: say like you'd break, but like are you breaking because
Speaker 2: you're like just so fucking exhausted of this shit?
Speaker 1: Pretty much that's what the trait do.
Speaker 2: Like it's it's I just don't think it's I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not in that position, but anyway,
Speaker 2: that's what happened. A photo also surfaced from Michael's interrogation room,
Speaker 2: with one of the investigation investigators bringing in a gun
Speaker 2: to the room and pointing it at Michael to help
Speaker 2: trigger his memory. What the fuck, Like, that's that's just
Speaker 2: not okay, no shit, Like I'm sorry, Like I don't
Speaker 2: care what kind of tactic you're doing, Like like I
Speaker 2: feel like I would actually be scared shitless and I'd
Speaker 2: probably just tell them whatever the fuck they want to
Speaker 2: here at that point, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine it was actually like Michael Scott in the office, and.
Speaker 2: You can't even just stop thinking about the office, My
Speaker 2: good lord. Michael had even asked for a lawyer at
Speaker 2: one point, to which his request was not granted. The
Speaker 2: detectives left the room, but then they came back in
Speaker 2: the room continued questioning him. He continued to answer, and
Speaker 2: they later just said that they thought he was just
Speaker 2: thinking about getting about getting a lawyer and not actually
Speaker 2: asking for one at that particular moment, like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: can I.
Speaker 1: Get a lawyer? I thought he was just thinking.
Speaker 2: I thought you were just like thinking about that ship
Speaker 2: like that's no. And interestingly enough, detective this Detective Palinko
Speaker 2: was later removed from the case. After he allegedly cohersed
Speaker 2: a confession in a different case. Yeah, so, like honest,
Speaker 2: just like that isn't helpful really, that kind of shit.
Speaker 2: It's like it's just not helpful. It's not getting anything.
Speaker 1: All he's trying to do is get himself more recognition
Speaker 1: for quote unquote, so solving.
Speaker 2: These cases, which I just think is just like it's
Speaker 2: just a waste of money and time. Now, there was
Speaker 2: another issue, and in two thousand and six, basically fifteen
Speaker 2: years after the murders, Robert's conviction was overturned and the
Speaker 2: following year so was Michael's. Basically, it was found that
Speaker 2: the courts violated both Robert and Michael's sixth Amendment right
Speaker 2: to confront their accuser. Robert and Michael's confessions were used
Speaker 2: against one another at their separate trials, but their lawyers
Speaker 2: were never given the opportunity to cross examine the accuser.
Speaker 2: So as a result, it was determined their constitutional rights
Speaker 2: had been violated. They would remain in jail while it
Speaker 2: was decided if the prosecution was going to retry the case.
Speaker 2: So just like this whole this is just like a
Speaker 2: shit show, hey kidding. So however, later in two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight, the defense requests to have the DNA be
Speaker 2: retested with the new technology that's now available. Right, that's
Speaker 2: like almost twenty years later, and it was found that
Speaker 2: the DNA did not match either Michael or Robert, or
Speaker 2: rather any of the men suspected of this crime. Suspected
Speaker 2: of this crime, And like, I feel like that's a
Speaker 2: big testament of their potential innocence that they they pushed
Speaker 2: for this, like, let's get this DNA like retested, right,
Speaker 2: you know. But rather than go with this proof and
Speaker 2: release Michael and Robert, the investigators and the DA come
Speaker 2: up with a new theory that there was actually just
Speaker 2: a fifth man involved and that Michael and Robert were
Speaker 2: still tied to this case.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it is possible.
Speaker 2: It's freaking possible, I guess.
Speaker 1: Or what if she had a boyfriend and just had
Speaker 1: a little visit with a boyfriend before going to.
Speaker 2: Work, they probably would have known that.
Speaker 1: Well maybe possible, I don't know, but I mean it
Speaker 1: is also possible. Yes, I'm just trying to play Devil's
Speaker 1: advocate and just say, like, just as it is possible,
Speaker 1: there's a fiftyude, this is also fucking possible. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: grasping for fucking straws, might as well grasp but them
Speaker 1: all it.
Speaker 2: However, was soon realized that the prosecution no longer had
Speaker 2: a case for now against them. Wait for now, it's
Speaker 2: something that could be revisited.
Speaker 1: Oh, like we have more coming out.
Speaker 2: No, no, it's totally something that could be always revisited.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. In October twenty eight, two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: all charges were dismissed. So basically, there you have it.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Okay, this is like a tough one
Speaker 2: for me, Like, do you believe that these individuals committed
Speaker 2: the crime? So the fact that the investigators were led
Speaker 2: to them initially and then again led to them ten
Speaker 2: years later seems kind of fishy to me. But other
Speaker 2: than Maurice having a similar weapon in his backpack at
Speaker 2: the time of the murders and very questionable confessions later,
Speaker 2: there really wasn't a lot to go on. And I
Speaker 2: also wanted to mention the original detective Jones, who was
Speaker 2: no longer a part of this second operation thing of
Speaker 2: the men getting arrested. He does not believe that they
Speaker 2: committed the crime, No, not at all.
Speaker 1: I do find it really fucking fishy that the one
Speaker 1: boy just so happened to have a twenty two at
Speaker 1: the mall where the girls so happened to be before work,
Speaker 1: and then when questioned, he suddenly passes, oh, I gave
Speaker 1: it to someone else and they did it.
Speaker 2: It does seem really weird. Do you think he would
Speaker 2: just be like, no.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, now I do have a gun, like I
Speaker 1: stole my dad or something. But him saying no, they
Speaker 1: did it makes me say he's worried about rifling or
Speaker 1: some sort of tie back to the gun. M M.
Speaker 1: That's that's the big trigger for me. He was there
Speaker 1: where the girls were prior to work, so he knew
Speaker 1: where they were going and what time all that shit,
Speaker 1: and he was worried about the gun. That is major
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: Well, he was there at where the younger ones were, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so I don't know, in a way, it's almost they
Speaker 2: because they I don't think they were the ones that
Speaker 2: were sitting at that booth though. So it's like those
Speaker 2: men that were sitting at the booth, Yeah, you're right,
Speaker 2: and that one man who you to the bathroom and
Speaker 2: seemed shady. They just like need to be found. But
Speaker 2: it's so it's so far down the line now, and
Speaker 2: there was like things that had been missed, and it's like,
Speaker 2: at this point is this going to get solved?
Speaker 1: I'm it could just be coincidence. It could have just
Speaker 1: been just two dudes just sitting.
Speaker 2: In it could it could have been.
Speaker 1: However, there's also a highlightlihood that if it was just
Speaker 1: too dudes who had nothing to do with it, they
Speaker 1: very well could have come forward and like oh that
Speaker 1: was me, Like you know.
Speaker 2: I true, Yeah, they they probably would have, really if
Speaker 2: they had nothing to hide.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I know if it was me and I
Speaker 1: had nothing to hide, I'd be like, yo, like can
Speaker 1: I help?
Speaker 2: Like that was me there that night, and then just
Speaker 2: question your whole life of why you look like a
Speaker 2: shady person.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just eating fro yo.
Speaker 2: Well that's the thing. They weren't. They just were having pop.
Speaker 2: Oh I was just having But I mean, like, maybe
Speaker 2: there's thirsty and that was like a place, the main
Speaker 2: place in that area that was open or.
Speaker 1: Something they could Hey, they could have been on a
Speaker 1: road trip and just like let's stop somewhere just like
Speaker 1: get something to some sugar in our system. Yeah you
Speaker 1: want not really? Maybe maybe you got.
Speaker 2: Something they could maybe not even realize that that was
Speaker 2: like the same thing place they were or something really
Speaker 2: potentially right.
Speaker 1: Who knows.
Speaker 2: So anyway, yeah, I hope it does because it's it
Speaker 2: would be really nice for the families.
Speaker 1: And fuck those guys who did it.
Speaker 2: Because that's I could just brutal what they did in
Speaker 2: the shop now is a nail salon, is it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So and there's like a plaque outside in the parking
Speaker 2: lot remembering because these girls and stuff, so like they're
Speaker 2: definitely not forgotten. But oh, it's just brutal. And on
Speaker 2: a side note, I just wanted to say we're behind
Speaker 2: on our messages on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Very much, so behind the life.
Speaker 2: We are just behind on life and we do, like
Speaker 2: we have said, we try to answer people for the
Speaker 2: most part, right, but we are behind. So just have patience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we will get to your message, we promise, just
Speaker 1: it might not be right away, yeah, but it will happen.
Speaker 2: It will happen. So anyway, until then
Speaker 1: Until we catch up and message you back, stay wicked.