WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:04.559 In that position if you stress and only believe in transcendence. 2 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:08.640 The Orthodox view following Hebrew Revelation does not believe that 3 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:11.720 God is only transcendent. He is also imminent, and there 4 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:15.160 is analogical predication. Analogy means that you can predicate on 5 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:19.879 the basis of similarity, not a one to one correspondence similarity, 6 00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:23.600 but there's also dissimilarity. But we believe that God can 7 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:28.160 condescend to speak to us, to make things clear to us. 8 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:30.800 So we don't have a problem with anthropomorphic language, and 9 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:33.320 we don't have a problem with Theophanes. They think the 10 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:35.960 two go together. But for the text that you're asking for. 11 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:40.039 In Philippians Too, Paul says that Christ, who is and 12 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:44.320 has the form of God equal to God Philippians Too, 13 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:48.520 made himself of no reputation, taking on the form of 14 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.640 a bond servant, meaning the form of humanity, coming in 15 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:54.840 the likeness of men. He humbled himself and became obedient 16 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.479 to the point of death. Deathn't across, so he didn't 17 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.640 surrender his divinity. It's a both and and not in 18 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:04.319 either or, So there's no contradiction between the divine nature 19 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:07.040 and the human nature. God is not opposite the world. 20 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:09.359 God created the world, and he created the world and 21 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:12.640 mankind in his image, in his likeness. Even the Quran 22 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:15.480 says Adam was made in the image and likeness of Allah. Well, 23 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:17.680 wait a minute, I thought, there's no likeness at all 24 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:21.640 to Allah. You see. So both Judaism and Islam have 25 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:25.599 this principle in their systems, and then they grapple with 26 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:29.079 it in trying to make sense of this when Christianity 27 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:33.040 alone is consistent with the Hebrew revelation that the second 28 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:36.599 person has always been manifesting and stepping into time and space. 29 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:39.400 Why is it impossible for God? If God creates time 30 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:41.719 and space, why is it impossible for him to manifest 31 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:43.120 in time and space? Says who? 32 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:47.439 So even unless it like the second person of the 33 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:51.280 God had manifest like, you know, as Jesus, Like, no, he. 34 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:53.760 Is Jesus, not manifesting as Jesus. It is Jesus. 35 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:58.239 That's Jesus, right. So, like when he's like walking around, 36 00:01:58.439 --> 00:02:02.359 is he as to all knowledge? Is he's still a mission? 37 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:03.239 Absolutely? 38 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:06.159 I mean the text here says that he is equal 39 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:09.439 with God in John one. When John says in John 40 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:12.479 one that he was walking around with us in the flesh. 41 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:15.199 John says he was also in the bosom of God 42 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:17.960 as he was walking around, because he never surrendered or 43 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:19.439 loses his divine nature. 44 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:24.400 Okay, so, howcome in the Gospel of Mark, you know, 45 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:25.080 he's hungry. 46 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:26.280 I think it's chapter eleven. 47 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.199 He's hungry, and then he sees a fig tree, and 48 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:31.439 you know, he tries to go for fruit, but he 49 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:34.319 sees that there's it doesn't have anything but leaves, And 50 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:36.360 then he did how come he didn't know that there 51 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:37.639 was no it was not the season on? 52 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:39.360 How come he didn't know the ap No, that whole 53 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:42.080 point of that passage is an object lesson because he 54 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:44.000 curses the fig tree because the fig tree is a 55 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:47.039 symbol of Israel. It's not a lack of knowledge. He's 56 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:50.680 making an object lesson for his disciples to say, you 57 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:53.120 see this fig tree, how it has no fruit on it? 58 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:55.159 The fig tree is a symbol of Israel. Israel no 59 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:57.599 longer has fruit because it is barren because they're about 60 00:02:57.599 --> 00:02:59.159 to kill her Messiah. 61 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.319 Yeah, I know, I get that, But the text itself, 62 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:03.280 it says Jesus was hungry. 63 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:05.039 So he's so if. 64 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:08.199 Jesus has a fully human nature and he willed to 65 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:11.039 have that right. So, in other words, as a divine 66 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:14.120 person or subject, when he assumed human nature, he assumed 67 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:17.400 it with all of its weaknesses and imperfections on purpose 68 00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:20.199 to raise it, to deify it, and to heal it. 69 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:21.039 That's the whole purpose. 70 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:23.560 So he absolutely got tired, he absolutely got hungry, he 71 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:27.199 absolutely got thirsty, he wept. All of those things are 72 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:30.000 proper to humanity because he's he's fully human. 73 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:31.560 No, I get that. 74 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:33.280 So, but the thing is that, you know, he has 75 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:36.560 the properties of human nature. But he's hungry, and he 76 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:38.680 sees the fig tree, so he goes to find if 77 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:41.800 it has any fruit, and that he sees it right, 78 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:44.199 But then it doesn't have any and then he ends 79 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:46.080 up cursing the fig tree because then he said that 80 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:48.000 it's like it kind of represents Israel. 81 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:50.280 But he explains that it represents Israel. 82 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:54.719 Yes, yes, he explains that represents Israel. 83 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:58.719 But my point was that if he's hungry, right, and 84 00:03:58.759 --> 00:04:01.599 he knows that the fig tree doesn't have any fruit, 85 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:03.960 just why doesn't he just go there and curse the 86 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:04.400 fig tree? 87 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.039 Wise he like going there. 88 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:10.360 For fruit because in many places throughout the Gospels, the 89 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.879 message and the intention is to show us his full humanity. 90 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.800 Just like when he's in the garden and he prays 91 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:19.399 to the Father, right, he says, let this cut pass 92 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:21.759 for me, yet not my will, but thy will be done. 93 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:24.839 In our understanding of that, he is intentionally subjecting his 94 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:27.480 human will to the will of God the Father, because 95 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:30.000 he wants to show us and to be an example 96 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:33.120 to us, that he really is fully human. And so 97 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:35.399 he went through the whole range of human experience from 98 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:38.360 being born as a child to maturing into a full adult. 99 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:41.519 So our explanation, our exposition of a lot of these 100 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:44.680 passages that it is absolutely intentional to show us that 101 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:45.519 he's fully human. 102 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:46.959 I see. 103 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.319 So like I think it's also in the Gospel. Maybe 104 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:51.959 it's Matthew and Mark Reigi doesn't know the hour, and 105 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:54.839 I think it was John Krisostom who says that, I 106 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.160 think it's like a form of expression. So would you 107 00:04:57.279 --> 00:04:59.120 quote it that same interpretation of that past. 108 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:01.600 Yes, if you read if you read Saint Basil's letter, 109 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:03.519 I think it's two thirty five or two thirty six. 110 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:08.199 As I explained in the debate, Jesus oftentimes utilizes this 111 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:12.240 form of exaggeration or rhetoric where he expresses things in 112 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:15.920 an extreme way. There's no one good but God? Right 113 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:18.079 does that? Does he literally mean no one is good? 114 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.079 So he means He's not good? And other prophets are good. 115 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:20.519 No, it isn't. 116 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.360 He's saying in an exaggerated way, there's no one good 117 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:27.639 but God. So likewise, no one knows this but the Father, right, 118 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:32.000 And that's Basil has many other examples. If you read his. 119 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:35.800 Letter, it's two Ory five or through thirty six. But 120 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:37.360 there's a there's. 121 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:38.800 An article on this if you want it, let me 122 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:57.399 find it now. Some people, some of the church fathers, 123 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:02.319 expressed exposited it as a pertaining to the human nature. 124 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:07.240 It can be interpreted either way, but ultimately it doesn't. 125 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:10.480 We're not worried about it because their countless passages to 126 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.560 talk about the son also possessing omniscions. 127 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:15.800 Right, Jesus knew all things. 128 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.240 He knew what was in the Thaniel John two, So 129 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:21.199 we don't have a problem saying that. Yeah, you could 130 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.519 interpret this as a limitation that was proper to the humanity. 131 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:28.360 For example, in Luke, when it says Jesus went to 132 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:30.800 argue with the scribes and the Pharisees in the temple 133 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.319 when he was a young man. It says that he 134 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.439 grew in wisdom and stature amongst God and in favor 135 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:40.480 amongst God and men. So those are properties that could 136 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:45.199 only apply to humanity. Right, the sun does not grow 137 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:48.160 in stature, Jesus, I'm saying the subject, the divine subject 138 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.120 of the sun, does not increase or diminish his divine nature. 139 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:54.800 Divine nature doesn't come in partition. It's not half. It's 140 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:58.040 not the percentages Jesus in the fifty percent divine, fifty 141 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:00.680 percent human, he's a hundred percent divine, hundredcent hum And 142 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:02.519 so the passage in Luke where it says that he 143 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.399 grew in wisdom and stature in favor, is applicable to 144 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:09.720 his human nature. And many passages in the scriptures are 145 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:14.920 this way, where sometimes, for example, if he said, if 146 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:18.480 he's doing a miracle, we said, the miracles are evidences 147 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:21.399 of in demonstrations of his divinity as divine power, divine nature. 148 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:25.639 Only God could change water to wine, only God could 149 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:30.600 walk on water. But other passages demonstrated that he's fully human, crying, eating, 150 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:34.480 and they're intentional. It's not that his divinity lacked, but 151 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:38.759 as again, Philippians said, he willingly chose to be in 152 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:42.120 those states. It's just it's the same thing with the 153 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:46.399 question of God answering prayers and reciprocity. How does if God, 154 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.800 how does God answer prayers? If he's all knowing, what's 155 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:55.199 the point of praying? Well, as doctor Bradshaw argues very lucidly, 156 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.879 God willingly condescends to have reciprocity with his creek. So yes, 157 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.839 he's all knowing, he knows what you're gonna pray. Well, 158 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:05.680 then why is it because he wants us to have 159 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:12.920 a reciprocal prayer with That's why cryptos. 160 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:29.480 Hello, Yeah, so I'm a Christian, but I'm in the 161 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:34.840 classical situation where I cannot you know, I just said 162 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:38.559 to conclude with what dogma would like to follow, you know, 163 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:40.919 so how do I process? 164 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:43.399 What? What do you mean? What church? 165 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:43.879 What do you mean? 166 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:45.480 Yeah, like denomination? 167 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:48.000 What's your background? 168 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:53.440 Well, I'm Greek, so it's only Orthodox churches in hands. 169 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:55.159 Well, you got it easy. What do you mean? 170 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:01.200 Well, look, you know you're Orthodox, but you're right, because. 171 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:08.320 Yeah, you know, it's because I don't have a family background. 172 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:13.720 So it's not really like many people have blind faith, 173 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:14.679 even if it's. 174 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:15.120 True or not. 175 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:18.320 But when I go to the chess, I like the 176 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:21.840 liturgy and stuff, but a lot of the times, you know, 177 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.039 with many traditions, it's very weird to me. 178 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:27.000 You know, because of. 179 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:30.840 The additions not being in the Bible lend you know 180 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:35.360 how like like the stuff Protestants say, you know, like 181 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:39.320 that's going on through my mind and I have to 182 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:42.480 look at every single thing like I cannot. 183 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:44.480 Okay, Well, like there's a there's a if you want to. 184 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:46.360 The simplest thing I could think of is there's a 185 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:49.799 three volume set by doctor Clark Carlton, The Way, the 186 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:54.120 Truth and the Life, and it's it's three volumes, two 187 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:58.039 of which are one again once against Protestantism, once against Catholicism, 188 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:02.240 and one is for Orthodoxy. So maybe check that out 189 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:04.279 would be a good place to start. That's the easiest 190 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:06.360 kind of like three volume thing I could think of 191 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:10.039 that would deal with that. So people asking I did 192 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:13.200 not say God is irrational or illogical? I said he's 193 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:18.080 supra logical. That's what I said. So there's a difference 194 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:23.039 between saying something is transcends logic and logical categories and 195 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:29.960 saying that it contradicts logic and logical categories two different things. 196 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:49.240 Boom again. I mean Muslims have the exact same issue 197 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:52.159 when it comes to the relationship of all his attributes 198 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:55.320 to the essence, and they've been debating it for centuries. Again, 199 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.159 we've covered this countless times. When they act like it's 200 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:01.360 not a debate, there lie, it absolutely is a debate. 201 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:04.879 I mean, you can go watch doctor Khalil and Jake 202 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.639 debating this issue. So what do you mean it doesn't exist? 203 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:09.679 And then they'll say she had, don't count? She had? 204 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:10.279 Don't count? 205 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:12.600 It says, why don't she account? 206 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:14.159 What do you mean? And by the way, it's not 207 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:18.799 just shea the other Creeds. Remember when this guy acted 208 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.720 like he didn't know what akdah meant? So you understand 209 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:24.440 we have totally different approaches to this kind of stuff, right, 210 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:28.399 I mean, for Christians, we aren't really supposed to be 211 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:32.200 deceptive right now. I'm not saying that there aren't deceptive Christians, 212 00:11:32.200 --> 00:11:35.080 of course there are, but I think it's much more 213 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:40.600 acceptable from their perspective, at least in my experience, that yeah, 214 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:44.240 you can lie to Christians. Because I asked him explicitly 215 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:46.960 what his akita was and he wouldn't say, which is 216 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:51.240 being intentionally deceptive. Yeah, soon he's debated as well. Exactly 217 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:54.559 the relationship of Allah to his essence is. I've got 218 00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:00.679 multiple books from various creeds of Islam debating it, and 219 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:02.639 they act like it's not a debate. Now. When I 220 00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:04.120 brought this up on Twitter, I said, what do you miss? 221 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:06.600 Not a debate? I kid you not. The answer was 222 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:10.639 from many many Muslims, Well, we all think Allah is one. Okay, 223 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:14.120 So because you use the word one, right, well we 224 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:18.000 all say all as one. See we don't disagree. Yeah, 225 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:20.799 I know you use the word. The question is what's 226 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:24.639 the meaning? And you guys have gone to war over this, 227 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:27.919 So what are you talking about? Okay? QD. If he 228 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:30.200 destroyed me, I want you to come on and I 229 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:33.559 want you to give some examples of where he answered 230 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:36.480 my objections and destroyed me. For example, makes sense of 231 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:42.200 Muslim Lantern's argument about Allah's attributes and the dependence relationship 232 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:47.480 and his shirt analogy and how are their analogies when 233 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:51.000 Allah is nothing like creatures? I mean, how slow are 234 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:56.039 you guys to not understand this objection? And in the 235 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.240 comments in the last few days, I realized they don't 236 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:00.960 know what the word analogy means. They're literally saying he 237 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:03.720 was making on that logy. Yeah, exactly, do you know 238 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:08.759 what the word analogy means? Likeness or similarity? So QD, 239 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.919 where are you at, buddy, come on and debate. If 240 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:14.200 you're not going to come on in debate, then just 241 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.080 boot these people. It's not it's not a place for 242 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:19.759 people to just spam gibberish. And in the comments of 243 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:24.879 the Muslims who do think that Muslim lantern one. I've 244 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:27.600 asked every one of them that I see, maybe I haven't. 245 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:28.679 There's tons of comments. 246 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:30.480 I've got to all of them, but I asked them, 247 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:34.960 please give some examples of where and how he answered 248 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:38.080 the argument and refuted me. And they don't. They don't 249 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:40.279 have any way to explain it. They're just spamming stuff 250 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.159 because they know in they sense that maybe this is 251 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:48.000 a weak position. Boom, what's up? 252 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:54.440 Elogi Drek? Can you hear me? 253 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:54.759 Yep? 254 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:59.399 Okay, I just have a question regarding your Bible. Do 255 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:01.320 you hold to the position that your Bible is infallible? 256 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.000 H yeah, but I don't know what you think that means. 257 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:07.759 I mean that it cannot contain error. 258 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:10.480 Well, again, I don't know what you think that means, 259 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:12.639 because that can mean different things. There, we have it. 260 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.320 We believe there are ascribal errors, sure. 261 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:16.559 Okay, are there contradictions? 262 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:17.799 Uh? 263 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:22.440 No, okay, can you flip to Monthew sixteen four? 264 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:23.200 All right? 265 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:26.600 What are what's your position on the Bible. 266 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:29.320 I'm not a Christian, I'm a Muslim. 267 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:33.960 Okay, And are you going to answer the Muslim dilemma first? 268 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:35.919 I mean, I'm just here to ask a question. 269 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.000 No, you're not. You're here to debate. 270 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:40.720 Yeah, I'm here to debate you on the Bible right now. 271 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:40.960 Yeah? 272 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:43.440 Okay, Well, but first we're going to talk about the 273 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:47.840 Islamic dilemma. Can you do that first? Because you're going 274 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:50.639 to argue the Bible's corrupt and has contradictions? So why 275 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:52.399 does the Quran tell me many places to go to 276 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:53.240 a book that's corrupt? 277 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:59.360 Okay? So is this how is this how like you deal. 278 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:00.759 With the contra I'm to say, I'm going to let 279 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:02.759 me grant you that there's contradiction. Okay, there's contradictions in 280 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:04.960 the Bible. So why would Allah direct me to go 281 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:06.440 to a book that's full of contradictions? 282 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:10.600 Yeah? So you're granted me that there's contradictions. 283 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:11.840 Correct, for the sake of the argument. You don't know 284 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:12.399 what that means? 285 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.080 Okay? So I mean if an atheist came to you, 286 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:17.240 how would you deal with the contradiction? 287 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:18.960 Would you say, I'm going to argue tag I'm not 288 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:20.879 going to argue Bible texts with an atheist. 289 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.840 Why can't you just defund the text without like simply, 290 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:25.759 you know, like running to my book. I don't don't 291 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:26.879 understand why Christians do that. 292 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:28.559 Well, you want me to believe in the Koran, right, 293 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:31.759 not necessarily, you don't want me to believe Why are 294 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:32.840 you debating if you don't want to believe in. 295 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:34.960 The Koran in the sense that I want you to 296 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.200 become a Muslim? Is that what you mean? Or enough argument? 297 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:41.279 Of course, that's what I mean. Why would Allah direct 298 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:42.840 me to so I'm going to grant you for the 299 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:45.000 sake of argument that Okay, the Bible's full of contradictions. 300 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:47.159 Why would Allah direct me to a book full of contradictions? 301 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:47.279 No? 302 00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:48.879 But I mean you're shifting. You're granting him for the 303 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:50.919 sake of the argument. That's not not your position, right, 304 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:53.360 I want to alter your position academically. 305 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:55.480 Okay, so alter it by explaining to me why I 306 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:57.240 should believe in a book that tells me to look 307 00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:58.440 to a book full of contradictions. 308 00:15:59.320 --> 00:15:59.919 Okay, we're not. 309 00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:02.120 Just yeah, so you won't answer that, right, So no, no, 310 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.799 Muslim can't answer this. Okay, what's answer? 311 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:05.519 Definitely? 312 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:06.360 What's answer? 313 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:07.120 What's answer? 314 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:10.240 Okay, I'll okay, I'll go go ahead. 315 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.320 Show me where, Show you where? What? 316 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.360 Show me where? It tells me to go back to 317 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:18.960 a book with contradictions and to. 318 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:21.679 Follow that book does allah in many places? You want 319 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:23.159 me to pull up the different lists. 320 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:25.679 Of the texts, Go ahead, please, all right? 321 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:33.000 M five forty six, two, two, eighty five, six, one, 322 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:36.360 fifteen and eighteen twenty seven for example, this is your shotgunning. 323 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:37.440 Can we do one at a time. 324 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:39.200 You don't know these passages? They're well known. 325 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.120 They come up in every debate between Christians. 326 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:42.840 And muslim I agree, but we got to do one 327 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:44.440 by one. This is called galloping. Can we do. 328 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.200 It's not gish galloping. Just you know these answers, You 329 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:49.320 know these topics. You know this situation has come up 330 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:53.000 for years. So I don't want to walk through every 331 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:55.240 single passages. It will take twenty minutes to do it. 332 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:56.799 Just tell me what the answer is. 333 00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:58.879 Okay, which one do you want to go with first? 334 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.200 It doesn't matter go with any of them because they 335 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:03.080 tell me to go to the prior revelation? Do they not? 336 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:06.559 I mean, I disagree, but I'm gonna. 337 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:08.200 Okay, what well? What okay? What do they tell me 338 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:09.319 to go to if they don't tell me to go 339 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:09.599 to that? 340 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:10.640 Okay? 341 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.839 Perfect, I'm gonna I'm gonna read you the verses you said, 342 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:20.440 Chapter five, verse forty six crow perfect, Okay, no? Can 343 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:21.640 can you hear me still? 344 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:22.400 By the way, yep? 345 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:27.160 Okay, I'm curious if you've read, like the verses that 346 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:28.880 came after. I mean, have you read two verses that 347 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:29.279 came after? 348 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:33.160 Yeah, I haven't pulled up right here? Okay, none of 349 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:36.480 those None of those verses refuw the point that's being made. 350 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:37.640 In fact, they back it up. 351 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.440 Okay, let's see about that. So the verse you brought 352 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.000 to to prove that the hard confirms the Bible, it 353 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:47.279 goes as then in the footsteps of the prophets, we 354 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:49.160 sent Jesus son of Mary confirming the. 355 00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:51.160 Tora reveal What tora is that. 356 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.079 The tora that was revealed to Moses, thank. 357 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:59.440 You, And what tour is that in the seventh century, It's. 358 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:01.279 Not going to be I don't how do you know that? 359 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:04.799 Because we have supposed that says that the. 360 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:07.640 I want to know how you know that? You're You're 361 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:09.559 had these assert that how do you know that? 362 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.759 I mean, there's many contradictions in the Old Testament. 363 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:14.759 So wait a minute, So now we're being told to 364 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:16.039 go to a book with contradictions. 365 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:17.480 Like I said to begin with, where is it? 366 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:19.119 Where is it telling? Where is it telling me to 367 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:21.000 go to this book where I don't really see that 368 00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:22.319 it's just confirming the book that was. 369 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:27.759 Again other passages to two eighty five, six, one, fifteen, eighteen, 370 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:30.839 twenty seven will say that you can confirm will say 371 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.319 that you can confirm this revelation by what came before. 372 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:35.640 But are you telling me that before we do that? 373 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:37.599 Are you telling me that all those words can be corrupted? 374 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:43.400 Yeah? When you say corrupt, oh means the Wait a minute, 375 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.599 God's words says that the God's words cannot be corupted. 376 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:49.200 But exactly to understand you have to be you have 377 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:52.559 to understand what is meant by that? Okay, okay, So 378 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:54.839 the hold on makes it very clear that God's words 379 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:58.200 cannot be corrupted. And what that means is that you 380 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:00.839 cannot change God's decree. You can not change what's in 381 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:03.240 his low head fold, which is the tablet with him. 382 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.279 Yeah, I know, so you're gonna apply it to the uncreated. 383 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:07.119 Right one second? 384 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:07.319 No? 385 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.240 No, no, can I finish? Please? I'm giving you my reasoning 386 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:11.240 and you're cutting me off. 387 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:13.960 Because we've heard all these arguments a million times. They 388 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:14.880 don't address the topics. 389 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:16.759 That's one ano there millions. You can hear it a 390 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:17.640 month and your. 391 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.160 First time it's okay, I go for it. 392 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.759 Okay, thank you. So, according to the verse for bringing right, 393 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:25.079 the Oran cannot be corrupted. Right, what this means is 394 00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:27.400 that you cannot change God's to creep and you cannot 395 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:28.880 change what's in his preserved tablet. 396 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:31.720 Rather, what is being corrupted, According to chapter two over 397 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.880 seventy nine, it is people writing something new with their 398 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:37.119 hands and saying that it's from God seeking a fleet. 399 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:40.920 Yeah. And that text also presupposes that the Torah at 400 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:43.359 this time is not corrupted. Do you understand that we 401 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:47.000