Speaker 1: All right, let's get it.
Speaker 2: Drivetime Friday afternoon, thirteen minutes past the hour, two o'clock.
Speaker 2: Lovely day, lovely, lovely day, in preparation for what looks
Speaker 2: like a really really lovely Memorial Day weekend. About seventy
Speaker 2: two degrees sunny here in downtown Salt Lake City, Utah.
Speaker 2: As it is every single day. It's going to have
Speaker 2: you along for the ride. Spence check, it's behind the mic,
Speaker 2: order Larson, behind the glass. Yeah, we got great weather
Speaker 2: this weekend and throughout.
Speaker 1: Next week as well.
Speaker 2: It looks like summer is on its way. Happy Friday
Speaker 2: to you, Congratulations, it is weekend time.
Speaker 1: You made it.
Speaker 2: Take a big old deep breath, and hopefully have a
Speaker 2: long weekend like we do.
Speaker 1: We'll be off on Monday.
Speaker 2: So this is our final show until Tuesday of next week.
Speaker 1: But luckily it is a.
Speaker 2: Jam packed, busy, busy show, very busy show with a
Speaker 2: lot to do, of course, the NBA Playoff basketball top
Speaker 2: of mind awareness. The Oklahoma City Thunder took a commanding
Speaker 2: two zero lead and once again kind of just kind.
Speaker 1: Of fit the script. I did even to feel.
Speaker 2: About OKAC the way I felt about Boston a year ago.
Speaker 2: They've got a level that I don't think anyone else
Speaker 2: has left, and quite frankly, they have all year long.
Speaker 2: They kind of just did last night where they've been
Speaker 2: doing all year long. Had a really excellent third quarter
Speaker 2: and second half. Julius Randall did not even get it
Speaker 2: get off the bench in the fourth quarter. This is
Speaker 2: who Julius Randall typically has been in spring basketball. He's
Speaker 2: had a really good playoffs, but not great Last night
Speaker 2: one eighteen, one oh three and Oklahoma City takes a
Speaker 2: two to zero lead on the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Speaker 1: They'll head back to will not head back.
Speaker 2: They'll head to Minnesota at the Target Center to take
Speaker 2: on well Uh to go back home. Minnesota is going
Speaker 2: to try to protect their home court after OKAC was
Speaker 2: able to get the first two games down in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2: The New York Knicks fighting for their playoff live. This
Speaker 2: is a franchise that I can tell you is zero
Speaker 2: to fourteen in the history of the organization. When they
Speaker 2: go down to zero. They have never gone down to
Speaker 2: zero while losing the first two games at Madison Square Garden.
Speaker 2: But that's what's at stake tonight. Nicks are a healthy
Speaker 2: five point favorite that line has kind of oscillated a
Speaker 2: little bit back and forth, so we'll see if New
Speaker 2: York can bounce back. We'll see if Tom Thibodeau decides
Speaker 2: to extend his rotation a little bit. But we do
Speaker 2: have some playoff basketball tonight, and a big one at that.
Speaker 2: The world of pro hockey continues to roll along as
Speaker 2: far as the Stanley Cup playoffs go.
Speaker 1: It's the Oilers and the Stars tonight.
Speaker 2: The Stars have won seven straight games at American Airlines
Speaker 2: Center in Dallas, Texas. That's one shy of their record
Speaker 2: in the postseason, and they lead the Western Conference Final
Speaker 2: one zero over Cony McDavid and the Edmonton Oilers.
Speaker 1: But you'll get that game tonight as well.
Speaker 2: So some playoff basketball, some playoff hockey, playoff basketball, playoff hockey.
Speaker 2: Last night as well, we'll get to some takeaways from
Speaker 2: the games. The Panthers smoked the Hurricanes, and the Panthers
Speaker 2: are the hottest team right now and the National Hockey League,
Speaker 2: so we'll do some playoff basketball, some playoff hockey. We
Speaker 2: are inching closer and closer to the NBA Draft coming
Speaker 2: up on June the twenty fifth. The next date of
Speaker 2: interest or Jazz fans. We're about one month away, virtually
Speaker 2: almost one month away, and a lot of rumors continue
Speaker 2: to fly about what the Jazz could do, either prior
Speaker 2: to Draft night or on Draft night, move up, move down,
Speaker 2: utilize their assets to bring in a couple of pieces.
Speaker 2: We'll have to kind of see how this thing goes,
Speaker 2: but we'll get you ready for the NBA Draft. Want
Speaker 2: to remind you that we're gonna have great NBA Draft coverage.
Speaker 2: It's myself, Richard Smith, Gordy Chiasa live throughout the course
Speaker 2: of the first round, and then the second round is
Speaker 2: the day after and that takes place during our show,
Speaker 2: so we'll have live reaction and let you know, of
Speaker 2: course what the Jazz elect to do with their four picks.
Speaker 2: Two in the first round, two in the second. So
Speaker 2: a lot to do on the program. More college football
Speaker 2: changes on the way after the news broke yesterday that.
Speaker 1: The college football.
Speaker 2: Playoff will be straight seeding now as opposed to awarding
Speaker 2: conference champs seeds. It's just the best teams get the
Speaker 2: best seeds. And we talked to Matt Brown yesterday about
Speaker 2: a bevy of different changes that are on the horizon
Speaker 2: and how this sport could take shape as we move forward,
Speaker 2: so we'll get the latest in that direction. No new
Speaker 2: news on the Jake Retz laugh situation out at BYU
Speaker 2: other than what's been reported by the Salt Lake Tribune
Speaker 2: and others. ESPN are Guy Kyle Bonnet Gurrow with some
Speaker 2: good reporting yesterday. But anything comes down while we're on
Speaker 2: air today, of course, we'll bring that to you. After
Speaker 2: our little four a up north to Ogden yesterday, we're
Speaker 2: back in studio today with a really good guest list.
Speaker 1: Start things off with the hippest.
Speaker 2: NBA rider around, Howard Beck from the Ringer Taco KC Minnesota,
Speaker 2: Top New York and in Indiana. Of course, a little
Speaker 2: jazz basketball some offseason NBA Zach Harper will stop by
Speaker 2: as well. One of our favorites on a Friday, Paul
Speaker 2: pug Meyer joins us to talk some and golf.
Speaker 1: Charles Schwab Challenge. The PGA Tour is stopping.
Speaker 2: At the Charles Schwab, so we will talk some golf
Speaker 2: on the program today with that guy Paul pug Meyer.
Speaker 2: Talk a little local golf as well. Played eighteen this
Speaker 2: morning at Bottaville. Shout out Bottaville. Lovely Little Track enjoyed
Speaker 2: that beautiful day, bringing mikeym for some off season NFL conversation,
Speaker 2: some football with Mike, and then Andy Larson from the
Speaker 2: Solid Tribune to do a little jazz and Little rsl
Speaker 2: RSL back at action tomorrow against Vancouver, the best team
Speaker 2: in the Western Conference, one of the best.
Speaker 1: Teams in all of Major League Soccer.
Speaker 2: So Howard Beck, Zach Harper, Paul Pugmyer, Mikeym, Andy Larson,
Speaker 2: he Spence Check, it's all of you, your great listeners.
Speaker 2: Happy Friday to you and that guy Porter Larson. Confidence
Speaker 2: level Game two Knicks Pacers, where you at?
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't think I can rightly say I'm confident, Spencer,
Speaker 4: not with the way Game one went.
Speaker 3: You know I have.
Speaker 4: I'll say this, I'm confident the Knicks will bounce back
Speaker 4: in the energy they play with. I'm confident that they're
Speaker 4: not going to, like all of a sudden, get swept
Speaker 4: and blown out in this series. I'm confident in like
Speaker 4: the fight that they'll have tonight. But man, when you
Speaker 4: get some of the performances you had into Game one
Speaker 4: and still find a way to lose, I'm gonna have
Speaker 4: to see a reverse course a little bit before I
Speaker 4: can go into the next game confident.
Speaker 3: There's a little uneasiness there.
Speaker 1: Fair enough as there should be.
Speaker 2: So we'll get you ready for some NBA playoff action
Speaker 2: tonight and talk about Game two takeaways Oka see Wolves
Speaker 2: last night. Howard Beck our first guest right out of
Speaker 2: the gates. But before we get to Howard. On this
Speaker 2: Friday afternoon weekend edition style courtesy off our good friends,
Speaker 2: your good friends, Stewart Prize Picks, it is to now
Speaker 2: for your opening tip.
Speaker 5: Welcome to the Drive with Spence check its on Utah's
Speaker 5: number one Sports Talk Now into the studios of ESPN
Speaker 5: seven hundred to set the scene for the show. The
Speaker 5: opening tip of the Drive is brought to you by
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Speaker 2: I'm going more on Tyrese Halliburton tonight twenty point five points.
Speaker 2: I'm going more on Jalen Bruntson twenty nine point five points.
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Speaker 2: at Price Picks. Got a little playoff basketball last night
Speaker 2: or tonight and playoff basketball last night before we get
Speaker 2: to Nick Spacers. It's just starting to feel about Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City the way I felt about Boston last year.
Speaker 1: This is their time and they're ready.
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I always, you know,
Speaker 2: hesitate about when it comes to anointing a team believing
Speaker 2: they can win a championship is if you have not
Speaker 2: had a lengthy playoff run as a group before and
Speaker 2: I haven't seen you do it, I'm always hesitant to
Speaker 2: say I believe that you can. And Oklahoma City with
Speaker 2: this group, you know, they've made the postseason before. Last year,
Speaker 2: they won one round and they were beaten by the
Speaker 2: MAVs in the second round.
Speaker 1: So I was a little bit hesitant.
Speaker 2: Even though all the data indicates they are historic and
Speaker 2: they had a historic regular season, I was just a
Speaker 2: little bit hesitant to anoint them as the favors to
Speaker 2: win the championship. And Boston last year just had a
Speaker 2: level and honestly, throughout the course of the regular season,
Speaker 2: when Boston was healthy and they were really ticking, they
Speaker 2: still have that level, but of course their lack of
Speaker 2: health against the Knicks and the New York Knicks ability
Speaker 2: to kind of exploit different things with them, they've sent
Speaker 2: them home and now they're on vacation. Jason Tatum is
Speaker 2: rehabbing his injury. Oklahoma City has that level, and I
Speaker 2: don't think anybody else does. I don't think Minnesota does.
Speaker 2: I don't think New York does. I don't think Indiana does.
Speaker 2: I think Indiana has some really intriguing things, but I
Speaker 2: don't think their pace will bother Oklahoma City if that's
Speaker 2: our finals matchup, and New York just isn't deep enough,
Speaker 2: or they have a head coach that refuses to look
Speaker 2: down hiss bench. And last night was just kind of
Speaker 2: fit the script. They didn't really do anything all that special.
Speaker 2: They had a great performance from the reigning MVP. Now
Speaker 2: Shay had thirty eight points. He only took two three
Speaker 2: point shots. He made one of them. The analytical community
Speaker 2: continues to take a bunch of l's during this postseason run.
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City is.
Speaker 2: Intentional at getting Rudy Gobert in pick and roll situations
Speaker 2: and then killing him in the mid range.
Speaker 1: And I love Rudy, that's our guy.
Speaker 2: Of course, he was here for eight years and nine
Speaker 2: years played really really well, but that's always kind of
Speaker 2: been the Achilles heel if you can get him in
Speaker 2: switches and then make him uncomfortable out on the perimeter
Speaker 2: and take advantage of him in the mid range. And
Speaker 2: that's what Oklahoma City has done intentionally, like they're almost
Speaker 2: insulting Rudy by canceling two or three different actions to
Speaker 2: get Gobert's man up to set the screen so they
Speaker 2: can get the switch. And then it's Jalen Williams and
Speaker 2: shay Giljes Alexander specifically, those two have been a nightmare
Speaker 2: in the mid range more than anything else when it
Speaker 2: comes to the way Oklahoma City is attacking Minnesota offensively.
Speaker 2: Jalen had twenty six points last night, He had ten boards,
Speaker 2: he had five assists, but he only hit two three
Speaker 2: point shots. As I reference say, with one three point
Speaker 2: shot back to the free throw line fifteen times, and yes,
Speaker 2: that is a superpower, whether you like it or not.
Speaker 2: Twelve of twenty one thirty eight points, eight assists, three steals,
Speaker 2: and after a pretty back and forth first half that
Speaker 2: felt like it could kind of go either way. Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City just curb stop Minnesota in the third quarter and
Speaker 2: Julius Randall, welcome back, buddy. This is who he has
Speaker 2: been historically speaking in spring basketball. He's had a great playoffs.
Speaker 2: I'm not taking anything he has done away from him.
Speaker 2: Eleven shots last night, only made two, did not play
Speaker 2: in the fourth quarter, had four turnovers, and.
Speaker 1: Ultimately there's not a home for him.
Speaker 2: If he's going to play the way he played last night,
Speaker 2: and if he is not going to be a viable
Speaker 2: number two, it almost doesn't matter what Aunt does. And
Speaker 2: Aunt was more aggressive last night at Minnesota was a
Speaker 2: little bit better with their turnovers, but Oklahoma City once
Speaker 2: again was plus twenty two off turnovers, and that's their superpower.
Speaker 2: Throughout the course of the season, they set an NBA
Speaker 2: record plus twenty one per game off of turnovers. In
Speaker 2: the playoffs, it's over plus twenty five. And so Minnesota
Speaker 2: was better last night, but I just don't think it matters.
Speaker 2: I don't know that this is a sweep. I think
Speaker 2: Minnesota can go back to Target Center and get one.
Speaker 2: But this feels like a mountain that's insurmountable for Minnesota,
Speaker 2: and they've got a Conley problem because when they play
Speaker 2: Mike Connolly, they essentially, okay see exploits him defensively, but
Speaker 2: when they sit Mike Conley, their offense does not run
Speaker 2: as smoothly as smoothly as it does when Mike is
Speaker 2: on the floor. So again, Oklahoma City is starting to
Speaker 2: remind me of the way I felt about the Boston
Speaker 2: Celtics last year. They just have a level that nobody
Speaker 2: left in the postseason has and this is their time.
Speaker 2: I feel like they're ready, and I if I had
Speaker 2: to pick today, I'm gonna tell you that I think
Speaker 2: they're gonna win the NBA Championship. They're six wins away,
Speaker 2: all right. Tonight Madison Square Garden, six o'clock Mountain Time
Speaker 2: on TNT. Thank goodness. Does the inside the NBA crew
Speaker 2: going to ESPN fix how horrible ESPN's every NBA coverages?
Speaker 1: Like, does it just fix it?
Speaker 2: I mean ESPN's NBA coverage outside of my guy, Mike Breen. Okay,
Speaker 2: shout out Mike Breen. Honestly, dude, it is embarrassing. It
Speaker 2: is a it's it's atrocious. I like Legler, I like Doris.
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's there's parts about some of the
Speaker 2: broadcasts that are good. But I like you, I don't
Speaker 2: think it really does because I think it's just personality based.
Speaker 4: It's just who you get, right. If you tune in
Speaker 4: and stephen A. Smith is covering the Knicks, then it's
Speaker 4: gonna be obnoxious and atrocious. If it's Reggie Miller assessing
Speaker 4: replays about Nix and Pacers, it's gonna be like it.
Speaker 4: There's there's give and take with every broadcast. I think
Speaker 4: you know right now it really does depend on like
Speaker 4: the team you get, the tandem you get. And it's hard,
Speaker 4: especially as a Knicks fan, trying to decide because I
Speaker 4: think stephen A puts on like a but poor, poor
Speaker 4: representation of us. And then you have Reggie who I
Speaker 4: think actually spends a lot of the game doing good breakdowns,
Speaker 4: but there are some of the times where you know
Speaker 4: then he's doing the thing with Tyrese at the end
Speaker 4: of the game.
Speaker 1: It's embarrassing.
Speaker 2: So luckily TNT has the coverage tonight real quick before
Speaker 2: we catch a break? Can can Tom Thibodeau get ten
Speaker 2: minutes out of Precious at you a like? Can we
Speaker 2: get ten minutes out of Landry Shammitt? Can you can
Speaker 2: you take Delon right former you'd off ice like. Ultimately,
Speaker 2: what this will come down to is whether or not
Speaker 2: the Knicks have the gas at the end to get
Speaker 2: it done.
Speaker 1: I've gone back and watched the end of that game.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment, like six or
Speaker 2: seven times, and credit Aaron Nesmith for going ray Allen
Speaker 2: circa nineteen ninety eight ogn and Obi stopped closing out
Speaker 2: and he never stopped closing out.
Speaker 1: Josh Hart stopped closing out.
Speaker 2: He slipped twice, he allowed a backdoor cut where he
Speaker 2: was flat footed.
Speaker 1: Jalen Brunson had.
Speaker 2: Two a horrific atrocious turns overs down the stretch that
Speaker 2: he never does. Karl Anthony Towns is limping up and
Speaker 2: down the court during overtime. So I'm not taking anything
Speaker 2: away from the pacers. And I understand Tom Thibodeau is
Speaker 2: who he is. But you've got to extend your bench.
Speaker 2: You have to find another four or five minutes for Og.
Speaker 2: You have to find a couple of minutes for Heart,
Speaker 2: you have to find a couple of minutes for Jalen,
Speaker 2: and you've got to make sure Kat is fresh down
Speaker 2: the stretch. Cat sneaky is like your secret weapon here.
Speaker 2: Indiana does not have size, but they have depth. New
Speaker 2: York has size, but they don't have depth. So can
Speaker 2: you get ten minutes out of precious at youa? Can
Speaker 2: you get eight minutes out of Landry Shammitt? Can you
Speaker 2: be smarter with your challenges and save them for later
Speaker 2: in the game like Rick Carlisle did? And can you
Speaker 2: stagger your timeouts to rest your guys?
Speaker 1: Tom?
Speaker 2: We know what your mo is and you've never coached
Speaker 2: in the finals as a head coach, and a lot
Speaker 2: of people believe the reason is you run your player's ragged.
Speaker 2: And while I've said for years and Frank Issola has
Speaker 2: been on this for a long time, there is no
Speaker 2: hard data that backs up the assertion that players get
Speaker 2: hurt if they play for Tom Thibodau. All players get
Speaker 2: hurt no matter who they play for. But I know
Speaker 2: what I'm seeing when I'm watching it, And if you
Speaker 2: go back and watch the way the Knicks fail to
Speaker 2: close Game one against the Pacers, it's just as much
Speaker 2: on the fatigue factor of New York than it was
Speaker 2: about shot making for Indiana. And typically I'd say with
Speaker 2: Jalen on your roster. If it's close down the stretch,
Speaker 2: you're fine. But after game one, I'm not ready to
Speaker 2: make any grandiose statements about this game tonight, So we'll
Speaker 2: have to see. We're gonna go live to New York
Speaker 2: coming up next and bringing Howard Beck. But I want
Speaker 2: to let you know that ESPN and seven hundred and
Speaker 2: ninety two ONEFM is your home of the Indy five
Speaker 2: hundred Sunday Morning with coverage beginning at nine am.
Speaker 1: That's brought to you in part by.
Speaker 2: Burt Brothers Summer Adventures or Just around the Corner, and
Speaker 2: Burt Brothers is kicking out the season with huge savings
Speaker 2: on auto services and deals on major tire brands. Are
Speaker 2: you superstitious at all? I don't know that I know
Speaker 2: this about you. Are you superstitious? Are you a little
Speaker 2: stitious on a scale of one to ten?
Speaker 4: I might be a little stitious, but I'm not superstitious.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the scale is and I've never
Speaker 3: been tested.
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 2: Well, we played Orange Crush last week for Howard in
Speaker 2: honor of our next and it did not work, so
Speaker 2: we switched it up. But I figured we'd stick with
Speaker 2: ther em to get our guy in the ride mindset
Speaker 2: before his Friday hit Howard, Happy Friday, sir?
Speaker 6: How are you doing all right?
Speaker 7: Guys? How are you love? The choice of drive an
Speaker 7: all time favorite, so, sir, And you're a drive time
Speaker 7: show right, so that that sits. I'm not sure that
Speaker 7: the thematic tie into the Nixon Pacers other than driving
Speaker 7: the Balls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I just you know.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do Orange Crush again because it
Speaker 2: didn't work last time, so I figured we'd switch it up.
Speaker 2: You are in the great City of New York, correct,
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 7: I will be heading to the garden as soon as
Speaker 7: we hang up.
Speaker 1: So does it feel like a funeral? What is it?
Speaker 1: What's the what's the buzz? What's the buzz in the
Speaker 1: city today? Howard?
Speaker 7: I mean, might be completely done related. But it's May
Speaker 7: twenty third, and it is like gray and cold and rainy,
Speaker 7: and it feels like Portland frankly, So I don't know
Speaker 7: if I can blame the Knicks for that, or if
Speaker 7: the if like it's vice versa, or if it's just
Speaker 7: reflecting the mood of the city. I don't I don't
Speaker 7: know what to tell you there there's definitely some shock
Speaker 7: and some hangover for the fans for sure from the
Speaker 7: other night. Whether the Knicks have that will we'll see
Speaker 7: in a few hours. You know, it's an I suspect
Speaker 7: everything we know about this team, about Tibbs, about Brunson,
Speaker 7: about Josh Hart, about the way this team has been.
Speaker 7: I don't think the dent in their psyche from the
Speaker 7: other night is going to carry over, Like this is
Speaker 7: a This is the kind of team that you know,
Speaker 7: they've they've kind of seen it all already. They're kind
Speaker 7: of a tough minded group. That's that that is their
Speaker 7: hallmark anyway. So you know, like with every playoff series,
Speaker 7: or most playoff series, every night's a new game. And
Speaker 7: you know, younger teams may feel that differently because they
Speaker 7: they're they're not used to just shaking it off and
Speaker 7: hit the next one. But I these things have a
Speaker 7: way of changing very quickly. So I don't know what
Speaker 7: we're going to see tonight, but I don't think the
Speaker 7: other night is going to have anything to do with it.
Speaker 1: I tend to agree with that.
Speaker 2: But before we dig into tonight a little bit further,
Speaker 2: since I've not been able to visit with you, since
Speaker 2: Game one. It's wild man, Like I was watching and
Speaker 2: taking notes, you know, to get ready for the show
Speaker 2: the next day, like, Okay, here's this story. Okay, wait,
Speaker 2: wait a second, No, here's the story. Okay, wait, that's
Speaker 2: not the story you like. I could give you ten
Speaker 2: different targets to aim at, and probably more about game one,
Speaker 2: but your biggest takeaways from both what the Pacers were
Speaker 2: able to do and what the Knicks were unable to
Speaker 2: do to close it out.
Speaker 7: You know, as you say that about how many different
Speaker 7: stories there were. The first thing I'm always going to
Speaker 7: remember about that game other than Halliburton's crazy shot at
Speaker 7: the buzzer that we thought was a game winner and
Speaker 7: that he thought was a game winner but wasn't a
Speaker 7: game winner, but it was only the game tire that
Speaker 7: forced over time. The thing that was also staying with
Speaker 7: me was Jalen Brunson went to the bench with five
Speaker 7: fouls and you know whatever, eight nine minutes left and
Speaker 7: a two point lead for the Knicks, and I thought, wow,
Speaker 7: this is the golden opportunity for the pay Like, if
Speaker 7: the Pacers were gonna win it, I thought it was then,
Speaker 7: and because the Pacers instead lost ground while Brunton was
Speaker 7: on the bench, I'm like, well they're cooked. And I
Speaker 7: think years from now, I'm still going to be thinking
Speaker 7: about how much I thought this thing was just over
Speaker 7: and how impressive it was that the Knicks were able
Speaker 7: to extend their lead by a lot with without their
Speaker 7: best player. I don't know what to make of any
Speaker 7: of that spence, Like, I don't know, like do we
Speaker 7: go into game two thinking, well, you know, the Knicks
Speaker 7: played their butts off and still lost, and you know,
Speaker 7: so now it's it's in the pacers favor, not just
Speaker 7: home court advantage, but just the overall vibe of it all,
Speaker 7: is it? The Pacers were lucky just to be able
Speaker 7: to come back, and the Smith hit some I mean,
Speaker 7: he's a great shooter, but he hit some some crazy shots,
Speaker 7: and you know there's gonna be some you know, return
Speaker 7: to baseline here, some you know, regression of the mean.
Speaker 7: I don't know which way to try to spin this,
Speaker 7: which is why I will just still rest on We'll
Speaker 7: see what happens in.
Speaker 6: A few hours.
Speaker 2: Little Birdie tells me that somebody may have left press
Speaker 2: roll a little early.
Speaker 1: Can you confirm or deny?
Speaker 7: I mean, you don't need a Birdie. I spoke about
Speaker 7: it for like ten minutes on Rosillo's podcast yesterday, and
Speaker 7: I spoke about it again on the Real Ones pod today.
Speaker 7: When they're down fourteen fifteen, the Pacers are down, it
Speaker 7: didn't matter which who's down. But then when the score
Speaker 7: is that big of a gap and there's five minutes
Speaker 7: left in a game at the Garden, if you're sitting
Speaker 7: on the Chase Bridge, which is where the media auxiliary
Speaker 7: go right like the press area for like the beat
Speaker 7: writers and some of the local columnists, it's not that big,
Speaker 7: so most of us are up on this Chase Bridge,
Speaker 7: which is level nine at the Garden. For anyone who's
Speaker 7: never been there, that is about his.
Speaker 8: Up as you can go.
Speaker 7: It's also where inside the NBA's studio set was right,
Speaker 7: that's floor nine. Event level is five, so the locker
Speaker 7: rooms are on five, the press conferences are on five,
Speaker 7: the press workroom is on six, so it's a hike,
Speaker 7: and if you want to be downstairs where you need
Speaker 7: to be in time for the coaches and the players
Speaker 7: and everything else. Sometimes it's like, well, if the game's
Speaker 7: out of hand, I might as well go now, because
Speaker 7: the stairwells are just an absolute like just madhouse, especially
Speaker 7: if the next of one, which it looked like they
Speaker 7: were going to do, because it's just this moving party.
Speaker 7: It's it's really raucous, and it's fine if you're a fan,
Speaker 7: but if you're a reporter trying to get down to
Speaker 7: the press room or the locker rooms to get your
Speaker 7: job done, it's kind of hard to navigate. So yeah,
Speaker 7: I was not the only one who left. I got
Speaker 7: to the press room. Rachel Nichols was there, Chris Mannix
Speaker 7: was there, some of my Ringer colleagues were there, Like
Speaker 7: a lot of us were in the press room watching
Speaker 7: those final minutes of regulations thing Dinnicks are going to
Speaker 7: finish this off, and we were to all just of
Speaker 7: course flabbergasted. And then some people actually rushed back up
Speaker 7: to the Chase Bridge.
Speaker 6: I did not.
Speaker 7: I waited it out, So yeah, that happened. That was
Speaker 7: a thing.
Speaker 2: I did not realize that it struck such a cord.
Speaker 2: I was mostly just giving you guff. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think I went to ten jazz games this year, and
Speaker 2: I think I left at halftime of every single one.
Speaker 1: So I'm not one to talk and I'm very different for.
Speaker 2: Sure, and I'm also very aware of the complicated space
Speaker 2: you have to traverse to the garden. But Zach Low
Speaker 2: couldn't run you guys over enough fast enough with Mannix
Speaker 2: and Nichols like that was the.
Speaker 1: First thing he talked about.
Speaker 2: He took the victory lap that he was the only
Speaker 2: one left on press row and called all y'all out
Speaker 2: by name.
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, I think Zach probably figured whether
Speaker 7: he gets down there in time or not doesn't matter.
Speaker 7: He was going to wait it out, and he's got
Speaker 7: a life leisurely drive back up to suburban Connecticut to
Speaker 7: his estate, you know. So the rest of us felt
Speaker 7: like we needed to get.
Speaker 2: Downstairs one more thing on Game one, Howard, because I'm
Speaker 2: wondering if at any point now, as somebody who has
Speaker 2: been cheering for this franchise since I was ten years old,
Speaker 2: it has ingrained in me not to believe the game
Speaker 2: is ever over, and it's ingrained in me to believe
Speaker 2: that if something could go wrong, it probably will.
Speaker 1: So at no point was I like, all right, that's it.
Speaker 2: But when Jalen hit his step back three and it's
Speaker 2: one nineteen one oh five with two point fifty one,
Speaker 2: I just said there's not enough time.
Speaker 1: Like no part of me was like, all.
Speaker 2: Right, that's it, because I figured something, if something's any
Speaker 2: could happen, it might.
Speaker 1: But I just thought, like the Pacers simply will run.
Speaker 2: Out of time because I didn't think Aaron Nee Smith
Speaker 2: was going to go ray Allen circa nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2: Was there any point in the game where you're like, yep,
Speaker 2: that's it, Nicks one, it's over.
Speaker 7: Yeah, multiple times, including when I left my seat.
Speaker 1: To go down the press room.
Speaker 7: I did not see this happening. But who could have
Speaker 7: predicted you know, Nie Smith just you know, turning into
Speaker 7: a flamethrower, and you know the Knicks, you know, gagging
Speaker 7: at the worst moments too. I mean, you know, anonob
Speaker 7: and Towns each missing a free throw. Like a lot
Speaker 7: of things had to happen, as is often the case
Speaker 7: in a dramatic NBA comeback, Right, So.
Speaker 8: It's it's all of it.
Speaker 7: I have not rewatched all that sequence, but I mean
Speaker 7: there's so many just I think unlikely twists and turns
Speaker 7: in there, and especially given how much of a clutch
Speaker 7: team the Knicks are, you absolutely do not expect this.
Speaker 7: But one of the things I said before the series started,
Speaker 7: was you know, given what the Knicks have done and
Speaker 7: what Jalen Brunston has done, he is the clutch player
Speaker 7: of the year and all that. If this is, if
Speaker 7: it's ever close in this series, the Pacers could be
Speaker 7: cooked because the Brunson's going to always bring it home.
Speaker 7: But I as soon as I thought that earlier in
Speaker 7: the week, as I was getting all my thoughts down,
Speaker 7: I thought, wait, Tyre's Halliburton has hit a buch huge
Speaker 7: clutch shots in his career already. The Pacers have wiped
Speaker 7: out massive leads to win on the road. You don't
Speaker 7: want it close against them either, Like this is like
Speaker 7: they're truly both of these teams are built to weather this,
Speaker 7: and so it sort of becomes a coin flip as
Speaker 7: to who can prevail in the end. But even all
Speaker 7: that said, like I mean, all this comes down to
Speaker 7: Tyrese Haliburton driving into the lane, turning around, making a
Speaker 7: U turn, going back out to the arc, hitting a
Speaker 7: shot with his toe on the line, giving the choke sign,
Speaker 7: going into overtime, and then having to still like go oh, whoops,
Speaker 7: choke sign too early. Guess we better finish this off
Speaker 7: and overtime now and still having to then execute then
Speaker 7: like it's it's just so many different things that's what
Speaker 7: makes this like that game. Apologies to you and all
Speaker 7: the rest of the Knicks fans, but that game is
Speaker 7: going to go down as an all time incredible game.
Speaker 7: We're going to be talking about this years and decades
Speaker 7: from now, just like we talk about Sorry again, Reggie
Speaker 7: Miller's eight points and nine seconds or Derek Fisher's point
Speaker 7: four that I was there for all the years ago,
Speaker 7: Like this is a playoff classic instantly, and wherever the
Speaker 7: series ends, like the Knicks could win the series, we
Speaker 7: will still be talking about Tyreez Haliburton.
Speaker 6: In that moment.
Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I couldn't sleep, like I kept going
Speaker 2: over the final few possessions, and I did go back
Speaker 2: and watch Howard and ultimately as much credit as the
Speaker 2: Pacers deserve and Niece Smith and Halliburton and Rick Carlisle's
Speaker 2: a hell of a coach. Ognnobe stopped closing out. Josh
Speaker 2: Hart slipped twice. Josh Hart was caught on a back
Speaker 2: door cut with his feet firmly planted on the floor.
Speaker 2: Jalen with a couple of bad turnovers down the stretch,
Speaker 2: Kat misses a free throw. Og misses a free throw.
Speaker 2: Credit the Pacers. The Knicks were gassed. So as we
Speaker 2: move over to tonight, here's my first question. Can Tom
Speaker 2: Thibodeau get ten minutes out of precious Atchua? Can he
Speaker 2: get eight minutes out of Landry Shammitt? I know his deal, right,
Speaker 2: but they were gassed. Kat was limping up and down
Speaker 2: the floor at the end. And again Og never fails
Speaker 2: to close out, and he did on multiple occasions. So
Speaker 2: I get like, this is who Tom is. It's who
Speaker 2: he's always been. I understand that rushes that you is
Speaker 2: not a bad player. He's got some pieces on his
Speaker 2: bench that he can throw in there for four or
Speaker 2: five minutes. He also has to be better with his challenges,
Speaker 2: and I think he has to be better with his timeouts.
Speaker 1: I thought he was out coach game one.
Speaker 2: Is there any chance he extends the bench a little
Speaker 2: bit so they're not so gassed at the end.
Speaker 7: You know, Tibbs is fairly stubborn about these things. He
Speaker 7: trusts who he trusts in that rotation, And yeah, I
Speaker 7: mean we've seen the pattern over and over again. I
Speaker 7: do think so A couple of quick things what is
Speaker 7: a concern for the Knicks in general coming into the
Speaker 7: series would be and certainly after Game one, the Pacers
Speaker 7: play at this just frantic pace and they're gonna get
Speaker 7: up and down the court and the knickser are used
Speaker 7: to playing much more deliberately, and as much as the
Speaker 7: Knicks are certainly conditioned for long minutes because Tibbs plays
Speaker 7: them all, you know, among the highest minutes in the league.
Speaker 8: It's it's it did their pay.
Speaker 7: It's not running up and down at the PACER's pace,
Speaker 7: which is which again it's frantic, and I do think
Speaker 7: and also the Pacers move the ball quite a bit, right,
Speaker 7: like you have to defend multiple actions in every possession,
Speaker 7: unlike what they faced with Boston or Detroit. So there's
Speaker 7: there is a potential fatigue factor here on in every
Speaker 7: other day series for the Knicks. On top of that, yeah,
Speaker 7: the shorter rotation. So to the question of precious at
Speaker 7: Chua in particular, you know, Town's had a pretty big game.
Speaker 7: He had some some missteps of key moments late, but
Speaker 7: Town's had a pretty big game against them, and Miles
Speaker 7: Turner was not and you know, or or Siakam any
Speaker 7: of their bigs were not really the answer. So I
Speaker 7: do wonder if they might just dust off precious Atchua anyway,
Speaker 7: and you know he's he's closer to like Tobias Harris
Speaker 7: size really and you know Tobias Harris had had some good,
Speaker 7: you know, stretches against towns, and you do need to
Speaker 7: give towns different looks. And sometimes when you get a
Speaker 7: guy who's just strong with the lower center of gravity,
Speaker 7: that that can have an impact. So we'll see. I
Speaker 7: think your instinct is right given everything we just talked about,
Speaker 7: like they probably should extend the rotation at least by
Speaker 7: one more player.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you make some good points regarding the pace,
Speaker 2: because ultimately early on in that game, I think what
Speaker 2: people forget is Indiana could not miss. They just made
Speaker 2: I think they made their first ten shots, but the
Speaker 2: Knicks were able to keep up. But they were playing
Speaker 2: up and down and it was and it was working
Speaker 2: for the Knicks.
Speaker 1: They were actually playing well offensively.
Speaker 2: And New York can run, They've got fast wings, Jalen
Speaker 2: can get up and down. Kats not necessarily flee to foot.
Speaker 2: But if Tom isn't going to extend his bench by
Speaker 2: a player or two, what do they have to do
Speaker 2: to be careful that even if the pace is working,
Speaker 2: understanding that going up and down with a bench that
Speaker 2: goes eleven deep fifteen plus minutes a night with eleven
Speaker 2: players eventually will catch up to you. How do they
Speaker 2: stop themselves from getting in this up and down game
Speaker 2: back and forth, even though at times it works to
Speaker 2: make sure that they have enough gas at the end.
Speaker 7: I don't know. I think you can be as deliberate
Speaker 7: as you want, but if the other team is pulling
Speaker 7: the ball out of the basket and immediately spritten up
Speaker 7: court and you know, basically going seven seconds or less
Speaker 7: Mike d'An toni style, which so many times the other
Speaker 7: night I've flashed in my head. And it's funny because
Speaker 7: of course the sun's paced back then, which we thought
Speaker 7: of as so frantic, and they're gonna shoot as soon
Speaker 7: as they get their first open shot. Their pace would
Speaker 7: be slow by today's NBA standards, but that's what it
Speaker 7: looked like to me watching the Pacers go like they're
Speaker 7: just gonna get up court and the first good shot
Speaker 7: they got, boom, it's going, And it's easy to get
Speaker 7: caught up in that. But I do think, yeah, the
Speaker 7: Knicks have to try to do things their way. They
Speaker 7: need just to slow it down. They need to make
Speaker 7: the Pacers work as much on defense as possible to
Speaker 7: maybe hopefully put a dent in their stamina at the
Speaker 7: other end. But yeah, the pacers that are gonna say, fine,
Speaker 7: we're you know, we're gonna run nine ten or eleven
Speaker 7: deep or whatever. We'll have fresh bodies out there. So
Speaker 7: I'm not sure what the exact answer is there.
Speaker 1: All right, last thing on tonight, what's your gut say?
Speaker 2: I completely agree with And I think a lot of
Speaker 2: this does come from Jalen Brunson specifically, and Tom Thibodeau's well,
Speaker 2: But Jalen has this like stoicism about him where he
Speaker 2: doesn't get high, he doesn't get low. After they beat
Speaker 2: the Celtics, he's the one that was yelling at his
Speaker 2: teammates to get into the locker room like nothing has
Speaker 2: gone down yet. So I agree that I think this
Speaker 2: group can compartmentalize and put Game one out of their minds.
Speaker 2: And I'm not asking you to pick because I I
Speaker 2: know you don't do that.
Speaker 1: But what's your gut tell you? What do you have
Speaker 1: a lean for tonight?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 7: I mean I reflexively, you know, go with the home team,
Speaker 7: especially if they're just lost a game, right, like you know,
Speaker 7: the Knicks saying the NIXT going down oh two, which
Speaker 7: would stun me. But that said, when the Knicks stole
Speaker 7: game won from Boston, I thought, oh, yeah, of course
Speaker 7: Boston's gonna win Game two.
Speaker 9: Oops.
Speaker 7: And it's same thing with the Pacers and Calves. But
Speaker 7: it's been that kind of postseason where the Pacers beat
Speaker 7: the Calves in Game one in Cleveland, and I thought,
Speaker 7: of course Cleveland's gonna win Game two again. Oops. For
Speaker 7: your sake, I hope I'm I'm right this time. But yeah,
Speaker 7: I absolutely expect the Knicks to win. It wouldn't even
Speaker 7: surprise me if it were, you know, a pretty big gap,
Speaker 7: not a blowout, but just like win and win handily.
Speaker 7: Like I don't think we'll see the same kind of
Speaker 7: drama in the final minutes. But you just you just
Speaker 7: never know. I mean, I had a piece earlier this
Speaker 7: week basically saying like, welcome to the NBA's age of chaos,
Speaker 7: and it referenced all the things I just mentioned and
Speaker 7: many more. You know, whether it's Dallas jumping up in
Speaker 7: the lottery, whether it's just the volatility in the standings
Speaker 7: in the playoffs and two sixty win teams going down
Speaker 7: in the second round, and just across the board, like
Speaker 7: there is so much unpredictability about the NBA right now,
Speaker 7: and it cuts both ways, right There's aspects of it
Speaker 7: that make it really fun. There's a lot more suspense,
Speaker 7: and there really is this sense of you've just never
Speaker 7: known a given night what may happen. The flip side
Speaker 7: of it is being sixty win team guarantees or nothing,
Speaker 7: and that could be pretty frustrating for those teams and
Speaker 7: their fans. And it does just feel like it's harder
Speaker 7: to get to wrap our heads around, you know, any
Speaker 7: of it.
Speaker 8: So, but this is where we are.
Speaker 7: This is this is, you know, like I say, not
Speaker 7: just the age of parody, but it's the age of chaos.
Speaker 8: It is.
Speaker 2: It is all right moving out this way before we
Speaker 2: get to the nuts and bolts of the Western Conference Finals.
Speaker 2: Your reaction to Shay be An awarded MVP and any
Speaker 2: inside information as to why we all had to wait
Speaker 2: for so long for that announcement.
Speaker 7: It's weird how everybody latched onto that. I don't think
Speaker 7: this is all that much later than usual. I haven't
Speaker 7: looked up the dates.
Speaker 8: Maybe you have.
Speaker 7: The MVP always comes after all the other major awards,
Speaker 7: you know, the only thing that's still left right now
Speaker 7: is you know, I think, so we have the All
Speaker 7: Defensive Teams yesterday, we'll have all MBA tonight and then
Speaker 7: we'll be done. But MVP always comes after all the
Speaker 7: other big awards, aside from the two I just mentioned.
Speaker 7: And could they have done it during Denver OKC. So,
Speaker 7: like all I can tell you is this, there's a
Speaker 7: bunch of different factors. Right they announced The way things
Speaker 7: go these days, they announce all the awards, the major
Speaker 7: awards on TNT, so it's got to be on a
Speaker 7: Turner night in the playoffs, and Turner and ESPN divide
Speaker 7: up all these games. So that's one consideration. Another consideration is,
Speaker 7: as I understand that the league does not like doing
Speaker 7: awards major awards in the second week of a series.
Speaker 7: I think because it could become awkward, like you're not
Speaker 7: going to be to give shade like the MVP before
Speaker 7: Game seven against the Nuggets. That would have been, you know,
Speaker 7: a little uncomfortable. And I don't know they had a
Speaker 7: window the first week of that series. So it's just
Speaker 7: they're weighing a bunch of stuff and trying to figure
Speaker 7: out when to thread the needle.
Speaker 8: It's it's difficult.
Speaker 7: I don't think there was any plan to do it
Speaker 7: this way. It's just kind of the way it unfolded.
Speaker 2: So I'm starting to feel about Okay, see the way
Speaker 2: I felt about Boston a year ago.
Speaker 1: I just think to have a level that nobody else does.
Speaker 2: I was hesitant to just anoint them, even though the
Speaker 2: numbers and data probably says we should have been maybe
Speaker 2: quicker to do that. I just if you have not
Speaker 2: had a deep playoff run as a group together, I'm
Speaker 2: always a little bit skeptical. I don't know that it's
Speaker 2: as sweet, but I don't think Minnesota really has much
Speaker 2: of a prayer here. And I think if you're OKAYC
Speaker 2: you got to feel pretty good about your chances of
Speaker 2: not just going to the finals, but winning the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like they're ready. Howard, what are
Speaker 1: your thoughts?
Speaker 7: They definitely look ready, There's no question. The last night's
Speaker 7: game was pretty pretty darn convincing, and you know, I
Speaker 7: thought this was going to be a much closer series.
Speaker 7: It still could you know it shifts in Minnesota. We'll
Speaker 7: see what happens. But you know, teams that are up
Speaker 7: too in a best of seven series in the NBA
Speaker 7: win the series ninety two percent of the time, so
Speaker 7: including six and zero in this postseason, So the chances
Speaker 7: are this thing is over, but we'll see how it
Speaker 7: plays out. The fact is, yeah, Oklahoma is everything that
Speaker 7: we've been praising them for since last summer when we
Speaker 7: were talking about them as being favorites, which is they're young,
Speaker 7: they're deep, they're super talented, and you know, they play
Speaker 7: incredible defense like the Timberwolves. It looks like there's just
Speaker 7: no time or space for them to get anything done offensively.
Speaker 7: You dribble one time too many, it's being poked away.
Speaker 7: You know, you turn your back on your defender for
Speaker 7: two seconds and there's there's a hand there and it's
Speaker 7: you know you want to then you know, rely on
Speaker 7: more more passing and ball movement, right, But like the
Speaker 7: second you throw one slightly off target past someone leaping
Speaker 7: into the passing lane and stealing it and running off
Speaker 7: for a fast break. So I don't know what you
Speaker 7: do about that. And the fact is, you know, Anthony
Speaker 7: Edwards does not have He's got good help around him
Speaker 7: in the sense of like he's got shooters and Julius
Speaker 7: Randall can do a lot with the ball in his hands.
Speaker 7: But you know as a Nick fan that you know
Speaker 7: Julius Randall kind of comes and goes, and he has
Speaker 7: suddenly disappeared again, and there's just not a second threat
Speaker 7: to keep the thunder, you know, honest for for Anthony
Speaker 7: Edwards benefit. So I'm not expecting some great comeback at
Speaker 7: this stage by the Timberwolves. And yeah, I guess we'll
Speaker 7: all be setting up camp in Oklahoma soon.
Speaker 2: Oh, look at the excitement in Howard's voice. Maybe you
Speaker 2: can get a Oklahoma City Indianapolis finals.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'd love that. Yeah.
Speaker 7: I made the cracker earlier today on the Real Ones
Speaker 7: with with apologies to Oklahoma, but because we were the
Speaker 7: Logan Murdock my coast was saying something about, you know,
Speaker 7: parade in Oklahoma. I'm like, yeah, it's gonna last like
Speaker 7: two minutes and everybody's got to turn around and go
Speaker 7: back again, or that it'll be out in the field.
Speaker 7: But yeah, it's bad, right, It's yeah, I think that's
Speaker 7: where we're going. Not my favorite place on the NBA map.
Speaker 7: But but they're an amazing team. They've done a fantastic job,
Speaker 7: and I do not expect that anybody who comes out
Speaker 7: of the East is going to beat them either. So
Speaker 7: and then we can all start having premature discussions about
Speaker 7: whether or not they'll be a dynasty.
Speaker 2: Well, when the Jazz are in the finals in twenty
Speaker 2: forty seven, I can't wait to have you out here
Speaker 2: in Salle a coward, So we'll set you loose. I
Speaker 2: know you got some traffic to fight and enjoy the
Speaker 2: game tonight and stay to the.
Speaker 1: End, will you?
Speaker 8: I will try.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Appreciate such Howard back from the Ringer, one of our favorites.
Speaker 2: He's really not on Twitter much anymore, but you can
Speaker 2: find the link to his work on his Twitter page
Speaker 2: at Howard beck is where you find him, and he's
Speaker 2: also on Blue Sky as well. Appreciate Howard's tom He's
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Speaker 2: out our four plus lawn care program everything you need
Speaker 2: to make your yard to hit. You know, I was
Speaker 2: waiting to learn a term that describes the way Zach
Speaker 2: pretends like he likes Pitbull and Tyres. Saliburton dropped it.
Speaker 2: It's are a farming. That's what he's doing. It's the
Speaker 2: very definition. It's the act of intentionally trying to appear
Speaker 2: cool or charismatic through actions or behaviors often perceived as
Speaker 2: exaggerated or artificial.
Speaker 1: We have the term.
Speaker 3: Now, can you use Pitbull for that?
Speaker 1: And Zach Harper or a farming on a Friday? Right?
Speaker 8: I wouldn't say, I mean, I don't think I'm trying
Speaker 8: to look cool. I just enjoyed the music. Whether you
Speaker 8: think that makes me look cool or not seems to
Speaker 8: be a projection of your own thoughts on what Pitbull is.
Speaker 8: So I think we just cracked the cake.
Speaker 2: Don't get psychological on me on a Friday. We don't
Speaker 2: need to go two levels deep. Had you had you
Speaker 2: ever heard the term are a farming before Halliburton dropped
Speaker 2: it because it was new to me, Okay.
Speaker 8: And I really hope I never hear it again. It
Speaker 8: founded real dumb, it did?
Speaker 1: It did?
Speaker 10: All?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 2: Well, while we're in the space. I don't know which
Speaker 2: target you want to aim at game one. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: there are so many different directions we could go. I
Speaker 2: referenced this earlier ro had Howard beck On when Jalen
Speaker 2: hit his step back three to make it a fourteen
Speaker 2: point game. As a Nick fan, I'm never gonna be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's over. But I just thought Indiana was out of time.
Speaker 2: Right at what point of that game, if at all,
Speaker 2: were you like, all right, that's it.
Speaker 1: There's no way the Knicks can lose this.
Speaker 8: So I'll tell you. I'll tell you. Actually my experience
Speaker 8: of the game, I mistimed when I thought that game
Speaker 8: was going to be over, like an idiot. So I
Speaker 8: actually planned to go to dinner with somebody at seven
Speaker 8: point thirty. They were late by a few minutes, so
Speaker 8: I'm just sitting outside a sushi restaurant watching on my phone.
Speaker 8: I had to stop looking at the game with thirty
Speaker 8: four seconds left. So with the five point game, they're
Speaker 8: in that replay review or thirty four seconds left in
Speaker 8: the fourth quarter, so they're in that review on the
Speaker 8: og foul, they're up what five point or whatever it was,
Speaker 8: thirty four seconds left. I'm like well, I mean, I
Speaker 8: know the Pacers can do this, but whatever. Three hours later,
Speaker 8: I checked my phone and I'm like, wait a second,
Speaker 8: Pacers won. I had like I didn't know, Oh my god,
Speaker 8: Like I checked my phone. I had like one hundred
Speaker 8: and forty text messages or something like that. Like I
Speaker 8: just it was. It was chaos in my phone. I
Speaker 8: had no idea. But what's funny is like up until
Speaker 8: that point when I when I when I saw it
Speaker 8: was my phone. You know, we had this live blog
Speaker 8: going on the athletic and when it was one eighteen
Speaker 8: one oh two, with like seven something left, James Edwards
Speaker 8: the third does a great job covering the next for us.
Speaker 8: You know, maybe cat had hit a shot or someone
Speaker 8: had hit a shot, and he's like, that's gonna do it.
Speaker 8: And Eric Name, who does a great job covering the
Speaker 8: bucks for us, is in there. He goes, guys, let's
Speaker 8: not cow this Pacers team out of have seen it
Speaker 8: too many times. And then you know when Jalen hits
Speaker 8: that that shot, you know I think someone else said
Speaker 8: it in Eric Name again, it's like, guys, don't count
Speaker 8: Pacers off. And then you know they made that little
Speaker 8: run and I think at the thirty four second mark,
Speaker 8: or maybe just before it, I want to say, Lot
Speaker 8: Murray for US was like, oh, this is a fake comeback,
Speaker 8: and Eric name again was like, guys, do not count
Speaker 8: this Pacers team that because he can't. They've got three
Speaker 8: times in this postseason. They just snapped a nine and
Speaker 8: seventy game losing streak of teams down fourteen or more
Speaker 8: with two fifty left, which is a weird stat. But
Speaker 8: somebody looked it up, so we should say it.
Speaker 1: It is a weird stat.
Speaker 2: But you know, there are so many things about it
Speaker 2: that were wild historic. It was a comedy of errors.
Speaker 2: It was a perfect storm for Indianapolis. And as much
Speaker 2: as it was about crazy shot making, Zach, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you've had a chance to go back and
Speaker 2: watch the end at all, but it was simply that
Speaker 2: this team was out of gas. Og stopped closing, which
Speaker 2: he never does. Josh Hart slipped twice, and then there
Speaker 2: was a back door cut where he's flat footed Jalen
Speaker 2: with multiple odd turnovers down the street. Kat was limping
Speaker 2: up and down. Oh Kat has a New York accent. Now,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know, I don't know if
Speaker 2: you're aware of that.
Speaker 8: I'm sure that'll laugh.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I sent you a tweet. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you check that out. But the fact of the
Speaker 2: matter is this Zach.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've been listening to him interviewed since he was eighteen,
Speaker 2: never had a New York accent until now. But look,
Speaker 2: Tom thibodeau' is a hell of a coach, all right,
Speaker 2: But at some point, here's my question to you, can
Speaker 2: you get ten minutes out of Precious at YOUA? Can
Speaker 2: you get eight minutes? If you're gonna play your boy campaign,
Speaker 2: Precious at YOUA can give you ten minutes and Landry
Speaker 2: Shammick can give you eight. I know he probably won't,
Speaker 2: but what what do they have to do If you
Speaker 2: will not extend his rotation, then they can't get in
Speaker 2: a track meet. They have to do something tonight to
Speaker 2: make sure their best players don't look gassed at the end.
Speaker 8: You can't run with these guys like that's first and portant,
Speaker 8: like I know they played well. I know the Knicks
Speaker 8: played well. And if you don't have that overtime period
Speaker 8: and they don't give them that, you know that last
Speaker 8: shot or whatever, it all looks great, right, all right,
Speaker 8: you survived it and you you you wan it out everything,
Speaker 8: but the process of it is like you can't run
Speaker 8: with the pacers. They and the thing is like Cat's
Speaker 8: a pretty methodical score. Jamon Brunson's definitely a methodical score. Oh,
Speaker 8: Jan Ando, he's a methodical score. They should be slowing
Speaker 8: it down offensively. They should be trying to like, you're
Speaker 8: not going to slow Indiana down offensively, but you can
Speaker 8: slow the game down yourself on your end of the floor.
Speaker 8: And so I like, I just think it's a mistake
Speaker 8: to allow both stop you know, both offenses to be
Speaker 8: a quick pace. I'm with you. And what's funny about
Speaker 8: this is I kind of feel like before game one,
Speaker 8: we had had all the backlash to fifteen years of
Speaker 8: backlash against oh. I thought Tom Thibodeau's running guys and
Speaker 8: you know, playing too many minutes. I thought that was
Speaker 8: supposed to prevent that, Like, we got all this stuff
Speaker 8: kind of saying that that's no longer a thing, and
Speaker 8: then you know, day one, they run out of gas.
Speaker 8: Maybe we shouldn't just do that. Maybe we shouldn't dismiss
Speaker 8: fifteen years of something just because they won another game
Speaker 8: and got to the conference, like I'm with you, Like
Speaker 8: like if Campaign is on the court, precious can't be
Speaker 8: worse than Campaign. I've seen pressures chewing play. I get
Speaker 8: if you don't know if pressures the chewing guy. But
Speaker 8: like he can he can give you six minutes, five,
Speaker 8: he can give you three somewhere in the second quarter,
Speaker 8: three somewhere in the beginning of the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: It's all you need.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I get sticking to the plan, and
Speaker 2: I get sticking to what brought you here. But in
Speaker 2: the in the fourth quarter against the Celtics, it was
Speaker 2: one hundred and ten to seventy six with five minutes left,
Speaker 2: and Jalen Brunson is fighting over pick set by Xavier Tillman,
Speaker 2: and it's like, what are we doing? I mean, Delon
Speaker 2: Wright he like, I don't know, man. I actually thought
Speaker 2: one of my biggest takeaways from game one, and I
Speaker 2: didn't hear a ton of people dig into this. I
Speaker 2: thought Tom was out coached. He used his challenges way
Speaker 2: too early. He didn't stagger his timeouts. Carlisle had two
Speaker 2: challenges that he used late with two big plays.
Speaker 6: YEP.
Speaker 2: I think Tom Thibbott has some adjusting to do as well,
Speaker 2: if they want to get out of this series, or
Speaker 2: you can just be stubborn and probably lose your job
Speaker 2: at the end.
Speaker 1: Of the year.
Speaker 2: I mean, because I think that's where we're headed if
Speaker 2: he refuses to adjust a little bit.
Speaker 8: Yeah, Like I thought if they got to the conference finals,
Speaker 8: his job was safe. But if you lose to the Pacers,
Speaker 8: I don't know if that's true. And that's not a shot.
Speaker 8: That's not me taking a shot at the Pacers. I
Speaker 8: just don't know if James Dolan's going to feel that way, right, Like,
Speaker 8: that's that's the person you have to kind of convince
Speaker 8: and historically not the most rational guy, you know, not
Speaker 8: the clearest thinker there. Yeah, I don't think. I don't
Speaker 8: think there's any shame in getting out coached by Rick Carlisle,
Speaker 8: But the way he got out coached, I'm with you, like,
Speaker 8: I think that's bad. I do not know what is
Speaker 8: this obsession in this postseason with some of these coaches
Speaker 8: using challenges early on the most like Mundane place, Like,
Speaker 8: I don't like Carlisle played it right, He had his
Speaker 8: chat like you said, he had challenges late for plays
Speaker 8: that mattered, not some dumb challenge in the first half.
Speaker 8: That really doesn't like unless it's a guy picking up
Speaker 8: a third foul, like a star picking up a third foul.
Speaker 8: I don't think I would ever challenge in the first half.
Speaker 8: I don't get it. I don't understand that. And Tom
Speaker 8: Thibodeau is one of those coaches that will do it,
Speaker 8: and he just like he can't be so sobborn. I
Speaker 8: know it got them there, and I know, like, oh,
Speaker 8: they're so conditioned now and they're ready for these big
Speaker 8: mens and everything. Not really, not really. They're a good
Speaker 8: team and they are well coached to a degree, and
Speaker 8: they know their identity. But you do have to be adaptable,
Speaker 8: like they You're not so good that you have to
Speaker 8: force everybody to adapt to you, right.
Speaker 2: And there were two occasions, one from Halliburton and the
Speaker 2: other from Turner in the first half. And look, every
Speaker 2: NBA player, whenever they commit a foul and they think
Speaker 2: it's questionable, they turn around, they do the thing.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's review the thing. They I'll do it.
Speaker 2: But there were two occasions that I took note of.
Speaker 2: Halliburton was called for a foul in the first half.
Speaker 2: He turns to the bench and he does the thing Okay,
Speaker 2: let's review it. And Carlisle basically told him to shut up.
Speaker 2: He said, go play, and then he did the same
Speaker 2: thing to Miles Turner about two minutes later, and I
Speaker 2: took note. I'm like, he's saving his challenges, which is
Speaker 2: what you should do. And the challenge Tom used on
Speaker 2: the Jalen offensive foul was beyond dumb.
Speaker 1: I don't know who told him to do that. It
Speaker 1: was clearly a foul.
Speaker 2: They were not going to win that. So ultimately that
Speaker 2: brings us to tonight. Do you have a lean? I mean,
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a stoicism to Jalen Brunson that
Speaker 2: I respect. Like after the Knicks beat the Celtics, he's
Speaker 2: summarily dismissing the celebrations and telling his teammates to go
Speaker 2: to the locker room. I don't anticipate, Like I know,
Speaker 2: the media narrative is like, hey, there's gonna be a hangover.
Speaker 2: There's no coming back from that, and that was a horrible,
Speaker 2: damn loss. I'm not saying it's not, but I feel
Speaker 2: like the Knicks, you're going to respond tonight.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 2: I don't know if their coach is going to a
Speaker 2: just enough to give them gas at the end to
Speaker 2: win the game.
Speaker 1: But I don't feel like all is lost.
Speaker 2: Tell me where your your head is at as far
Speaker 2: as the game tonight and the rest of the series.
Speaker 8: It's a bad loss. I don't think it's like this
Speaker 8: gut punch they can't recover from. Yeah, I mean, if
Speaker 8: you think about it, even if like the end of regulation,
Speaker 8: yes it's a collapse because they gave up a fourteen
Speaker 8: point lead in two minutes and fifty seconds. They scored
Speaker 8: on seven of their last ten possessions like that.
Speaker 10: That's the thing.
Speaker 8: They weren't giving the ball away the whole time and
Speaker 8: missing shots badly like they scored. The problem is they
Speaker 8: just came up three pointers in Aaron Neith Smith every time,
Speaker 8: like they were trading one for three, two for three
Speaker 8: every time. And so I do think it's fluky. I
Speaker 8: don't think it was. I think overtime was kind of
Speaker 8: was more of an indictment on the bad things about
Speaker 8: that team. I don't think the end of regulation was.
Speaker 8: I think that was a fluke. I think this is
Speaker 8: this isn't some young team that rattled. I think it's
Speaker 8: just a team of veterans that will be fine. I
Speaker 8: think Jalen Bruns as the leader is going to make
Speaker 8: them fine. I think they'll probably win. I also think
Speaker 8: teams keep underestimating this Pacers team, and this Pacers team
Speaker 8: is capable of winning the championship.
Speaker 2: They're really good and I've been wildly impressed. And you know, ultimately,
Speaker 2: I do think the Knicks have some size down low
Speaker 2: that the Pacers don't. But the Pacers have the depth
Speaker 2: at the Knicks don't. It makes it yeah, really really fascinating.
Speaker 2: But I know you don't have a ton of time today,
Speaker 2: So let's move out this way and before we talk,
Speaker 2: Okse t Wolves chase the MVP.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think do you think that was the
Speaker 1: right call?
Speaker 8: I voted for him? Yeah? I think so. Here the
Speaker 8: season no one else has ever had. Their team was dominant,
Speaker 8: and he was the best player they you know, they
Speaker 8: there was a massive difference with him on the court
Speaker 8: versus him off the court. Like I don't fault if
Speaker 8: you if you voted for Jokis and thought he was it,
Speaker 8: But if you dismiss Shaye as an MVP candidate, I
Speaker 8: think you've got a weird agenda.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said, And I would not have had an
Speaker 2: issue with anyone who Jokic, but I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I believe Shay was the red call. All right. So
Speaker 1: I said this earlier with Howard, I'll repeat it to you.
Speaker 2: And this is not breaking news because if you've watched
Speaker 2: them all year, you know that they have a level
Speaker 2: that maybe nobody else has. Boston had it last year
Speaker 2: and I started to feel like no one was going
Speaker 2: to touch the Celtics, and I'm starting to feel like
Speaker 2: nobody's touching Okac. I'm always very hesitant to anoint the
Speaker 2: team that has never had a deep playoff run, and
Speaker 2: that was kind of my hesitancy, like, let's see how
Speaker 2: you guys respond. And you know, a couple of moments
Speaker 2: first Denver that weren't great. But Denver is a team
Speaker 2: that has one of the best players of this generation
Speaker 2: and won a championship a couple of years ago. I
Speaker 2: feel like they're ready, man. I feel like I'm ready
Speaker 2: to say that today that I feel like they're ready.
Speaker 2: I don't think the Wolves has what it takes to
Speaker 2: come back and win four. I think they can get
Speaker 2: one at home, and I don't think either New York
Speaker 2: or Indiana has the level Okasee has when they are
Speaker 2: maximizing their ceiling.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts.
Speaker 8: I think Indiana could challenge them. I do, like I
Speaker 8: think Indiana's got the depth to do it and the
Speaker 8: style of play to maybe mess some things up. But
Speaker 8: it would take a lot of like hitting your peak
Speaker 8: at the right time.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 8: But yeah, I mean, okay, so he's just super impressive.
Speaker 8: I actually I disagree with a lot of people, like
Speaker 8: I think Minnesota. Minnesota should have won Game one, And
Speaker 8: I know you look at the final score and think
Speaker 8: that's ridiculous, but Minnesota went eight of thirty on wide
Speaker 8: open three point shots and it was good shooters taken.
Speaker 8: It's not like it was a bunch of a bunch
Speaker 8: of bums getting these corner open corner shots because it
Speaker 8: was being funneled there. Like Devincenzo, Alexander Walker nas reed,
Speaker 8: Mike Connley like these were forty percent wide open shooters
Speaker 8: who were missing wide open shots. And I like, I
Speaker 8: they should have been up, you know, fifteen eighteen points
Speaker 8: in the first you know, at halftime they were up
Speaker 8: four and we you know, okay, s he's the best
Speaker 8: third quarter team in basketball and they're going to make
Speaker 8: that run. It's different when you have the fifteen to
Speaker 8: eighteen point cushion versus the four point cushion. You know, like,
Speaker 8: I just think that's different. Also, this was a ten
Speaker 8: point game with four minute minutes left in a game
Speaker 8: where they just they missed so many open threes. So
Speaker 8: I actually think Minnesota probably should have won that game.
Speaker 8: Game two, you see the cracks there, right, You see
Speaker 8: the frustration of Minnesota, and it's really starting to get
Speaker 8: to them, the disparity and how the game's being officiated.
Speaker 8: And I'm not even saying this is this is a
Speaker 8: they're losing because the rest they even if it's not
Speaker 8: the case, they feel it is and they're letting it
Speaker 8: get to them, like they are whining through this stuff,
Speaker 8: like they're they're letting the frustration instead of just playing
Speaker 8: and being physical and just playing their way. They're in
Speaker 8: between zone because of it. Defensively, and I do think okay,
Speaker 8: See gets away with more more contact defensively than what
Speaker 8: Minnesota is. Okay, you got to adjust them, like you
Speaker 8: just got to figure it out. You can't just throw
Speaker 8: your hands up and start pushing and pouting and everything
Speaker 8: like you gotta you gotta figure it out. And so
Speaker 8: like they're they're struggling a little bit. Mentally, I think
Speaker 8: they'll be I think things will change at home. It
Speaker 8: Like it really wouldn't shock me if it was two
Speaker 8: to two going back to okay See, but I like,
Speaker 8: I mean, okay, she's going to win the series. But
Speaker 8: I think I don't think Minnesota is going to shoot
Speaker 8: this poorly the whole time. I mean they're getting they're
Speaker 8: generating good looks. They cut down on the turnovers. The
Speaker 8: problem is when they force turnovers, they're dead ball turnovers.
Speaker 8: When okay See force turnovers, they're all live ball turnovers,
Speaker 8: Like they just there's there is this disparity there. And
Speaker 8: and we always talk about a team getting hot offensively,
Speaker 8: Okay see gets hot defensively. They go on these like
Speaker 8: runs defensively they're just crazy impressive.
Speaker 1: Yeah they do.
Speaker 2: And when they dial it up a notch with that
Speaker 2: length and that size, it just.
Speaker 1: Feels like the Minnesota's up against it.
Speaker 2: And last thing before I say you lose, I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, I said this to a lot of my
Speaker 2: friends last year watching the Knicks in the playoffs, like
Speaker 2: what do you think, well, what do you think about
Speaker 2: Julius Randall? Is your second option? Offensively and look, I'm
Speaker 2: not taking anything away from what he's done so far,
Speaker 2: but last night I was like, yeah, that's kind of
Speaker 2: who he's been spring basketball.
Speaker 1: They need more from him, Zach if they're going to
Speaker 1: get back in this.
Speaker 8: Yeah. I said this in a video for today where
Speaker 8: you know he was great for he was great for
Speaker 8: too much. He played the best basketball of his career
Speaker 8: for the last two months they did, and then he
Speaker 8: turned into a pumpkin yep in game two and I said,
Speaker 8: this is all this is our bad with Like, you
Speaker 8: don't talk about a perfect game during a perfect game, right,
Speaker 8: you don't address it, Like that's what happened. Like everyone
Speaker 8: started to be like, oh, Julius Randall, he's really good,
Speaker 8: and now it feels like it's ruined. And yeah, like
Speaker 8: I mean maybe good because that player options coming up
Speaker 8: instead of needing a new contract. Yeah, like Julius Randall,
Speaker 8: maybe he gets back to it. I still think he's
Speaker 8: you know, he's definitely better than what he was last night,
Speaker 8: but they need him to be perfect. They need to
Speaker 8: be perfect and they need to hit these outside shots
Speaker 8: to have a chance to win these games. And then
Speaker 8: even then, like you, like you were talking about Okay. See,
Speaker 8: they just have a gear that and hit that gear
Speaker 8: every game that no one else can touch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, we'll see what happens though.
Speaker 7: Man.
Speaker 1: Enjoy the game tonight. I appreciate the time. Have a
Speaker 1: good long weekend.
Speaker 8: Okay, all right, buddy, thank you, all right.
Speaker 2: Zach Harper from The Athletic at tak Hoops on Twitter
Speaker 2: is where you find his work, a bunch of different pods,
Speaker 2: a bunch of different videos for the Athletic and writes
Speaker 2: their weekly power rankings. He is a voter for MBA
Speaker 2: Awards as well. Appreciate Zach's time on this Friday afternoon.
Speaker 2: He's brought to you today by our friends at x Clear.
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Speaker 2: So Nick Pacers Game two tonight Madison Square Garden, and
Speaker 2: then obviously the Western Conference Finals resumes tomorrow. They're gonna
Speaker 2: head up to Minneapolis to see if Minnesota can get
Speaker 2: back in this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Porter, you know this, I mean, you know.
Speaker 2: One of the fun things about when the Knicks are
Speaker 2: in the playoffs is I reconnect with a lot of kids.
Speaker 2: I grew up with a lot of friends of mine
Speaker 2: from junior high and high school. And last year when
Speaker 2: the Knicks were kind of playing better and it looked
Speaker 2: like they were going to be a playoff team that
Speaker 2: maybe could do something, they would all ask me like, so,
Speaker 2: what do you think about their chances of I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe winning the East or going to the Eastern Conference Finals.
Speaker 2: And the calculation for the Knicks for a couple of
Speaker 2: years was like, if Jalen's your best player, what do
Speaker 2: you make of Julius Randall being your number two option.
Speaker 1: And I want to be clear, I think Zach made
Speaker 1: a good point.
Speaker 2: For about a month and a half, even I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: you know, wait, he's playing basketball in the spring in
Speaker 2: a much more efficient, engaged way on both sides of
Speaker 2: the floor. He was guarding. He's a big, physical kid.
Speaker 2: He was an All star in LA. I mean, he's
Speaker 2: not a bad player. But I think the issue with
Speaker 2: Minnesota is that if Ant isn't necessarily making miracles happen,
Speaker 2: and Julius isn't going to be engaged Like Jade McDaniels
Speaker 2: is a good player, can you rely on him to
Speaker 2: be a number two Dante DiVincenzo off the bench?
Speaker 1: He has not shot well all playoff long.
Speaker 2: I think Nikill Alexander Walker is given in great minutes,
Speaker 2: but the number two option for them has to be
Speaker 2: Julius Randall offensively. And if that's the calculation, and if
Speaker 2: you've watched Julius Randall play spring basketball enough, you kind
Speaker 2: of know at some point he's going to come back
Speaker 2: down to earth, and we saw it last night.
Speaker 3: Well, the problem with Julius Randall is.
Speaker 4: I've always liked what he brings as a player in
Speaker 4: certain forms, but he is one of those kind of
Speaker 4: archetypes that is matchup dependent. Right, So in a certain
Speaker 4: matchup against a certain lineup, you're gonna see Julius Randall
Speaker 4: look like in all NBA type forward and we saw
Speaker 4: that at times with New York. But if you throw
Speaker 4: in a lineup that can match his physicality or a
Speaker 4: lineup that bothers him with length and kind of forces
Speaker 4: him out of the paint, it doesn't allow him to
Speaker 4: be a bully on the offensive glass, right. The things
Speaker 4: that he really does kind of succeed in. Man, it
Speaker 4: really turns into a situation where also the defensive end spence,
Speaker 4: if you get a guy who can beat him on
Speaker 4: a first step or makes him move latterly a lot,
Speaker 4: spaces the floor a little bit, He's he's kind of
Speaker 4: matchup dependent on both sides of the ball. So that's
Speaker 4: the real problem is that, Yeah, you really like the
Speaker 4: Julius Randall you see at certain points, but you throw
Speaker 4: a different player out there, all of a sudden, you
Speaker 4: see a different player and that can be frustrating. Players
Speaker 4: like Karl Anthony Towns, although he has different things that
Speaker 4: he struggles with He's seven foot can handle, can shoot,
Speaker 4: can There's not many matchups that are problems for him.
Speaker 4: It's different things to get to.
Speaker 2: And the thing with Julius and this isn't necessarily something
Speaker 2: that's exclusive to him and Tom Thibodeau has talked about
Speaker 2: this in the past. When he is not scoring, when
Speaker 2: he is not shooting it well, he doesn't card yep, disconnected, defensively,
Speaker 2: gets down on himself, gets frustrated.
Speaker 1: You can see his body language.
Speaker 2: And that's why Chris Finch just sat him in the
Speaker 2: fourth quarter and went with Nas reed.
Speaker 1: He decided to go with Nas and Rudy.
Speaker 2: By the way, Oklahoma City is intentionally going at Gobert
Speaker 2: over and over and over again, and it's when Shae
Speaker 2: and Jalen have the ball in their hands. I saw
Speaker 2: Shae cancel three different actions last night to get Hartenstein
Speaker 2: to the top of the key to just get the switch.
Speaker 2: And the nice thing about Shay is that it's not
Speaker 2: a switch to take a step back three. He wants
Speaker 2: to cross you over and pull up from fifteen feet
Speaker 2: when he gets to a spot. He has evolved into
Speaker 2: a place where he is as elite as any individual
Speaker 2: score in Pro basketball.
Speaker 4: And you'll remember me saying this before Game one. I'm
Speaker 4: not one who falls into the Rudy gets played off
Speaker 4: the floor narrative. You know, I think that that is
Speaker 4: very often overblown and very often unfair because of the
Speaker 4: situations that the Jazz put Rudy in for a long time,
Speaker 4: because of the personnel they failed to put around him. Now,
Speaker 4: what I said before Game one of this series was
Speaker 4: that while that narrative is usually unwarranted, this is a
Speaker 4: series where because of the personnel, because of the spacing
Speaker 4: the floor that okay see has, because of the length
Speaker 4: that they can sometimes throw out there, this is a
Speaker 4: series where Rudy may have to adjust some of the
Speaker 4: way some of the ways he plays. He's gonna have
Speaker 4: to switch out a lot, and he might not be
Speaker 4: playable at certain moments through certain stretches in this series. Right,
Speaker 4: And that is I think kind of where there is
Speaker 4: some truth to that discussion. But a lot of times
Speaker 4: it's not based on Rudy. It's based on the personalities
Speaker 4: playing against Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also to your point, it's never really been about
Speaker 2: we want to go at Rudy to play him off
Speaker 2: the floor. It's that we want to go at Rudy
Speaker 2: in high pick and roll to get him away from
Speaker 2: the rim and get him trouble exactly. So we can't
Speaker 2: have one of the best shot blockers this generation protecting
Speaker 2: the rim.
Speaker 1: Let's get him out and pick and roll switch.
Speaker 2: Let's get him on the perimeter and that way, even
Speaker 2: if he's able to successfully guard an individual one on one,
Speaker 2: boom boom, boom, you move the ball, go to the basket.
Speaker 1: He's not there.
Speaker 2: I mean, there are several reasons to do this, and
Speaker 2: typically Rudy is able to hedge and recover better than
Speaker 2: most people give him credit for.
Speaker 1: But man Okac is going right at him.
Speaker 2: We got Mike Cam from the NFL Network stopping by
Speaker 2: to talk some off season NFL grown men will be
Speaker 2: allowed to push other grown men in the tush once.
Speaker 1: Again coming up for this NFL season.
Speaker 2: It's been a massive storyline, so thank goodness we have
Speaker 2: some clarity on that. Andy Larson sawl a tribune. But
Speaker 2: time now to talk a little golf. Charles Schwab challenged
Speaker 2: going on in the world of the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: Colonial Country Club.
Speaker 2: A lot of fun local golf storylines, including me having
Speaker 2: a good front nine at Bonaville in a horrible back
Speaker 2: nine today, Paul Pugmyer, I think that's where we lead
Speaker 2: right my round.
Speaker 1: We should break it down hole by hole.
Speaker 9: Let's do it, and let's see if there's anybody on
Speaker 9: the golf course pushing each other in the dish.
Speaker 1: Well well played, sir.
Speaker 2: We will not break down my round from today, but
Speaker 2: I will ask you for a slight tip.
Speaker 1: Do you mind if I do that?
Speaker 8: Please?
Speaker 2: I've developed this odd tendency of coming over the top
Speaker 2: and pulling everything because I'm trying to fix my slice.
Speaker 2: How do I stop from coming over the top on
Speaker 2: my golf swing?
Speaker 9: There are some drills you can do that involve just
Speaker 9: placing some itemsund in front of the ballun on the
Speaker 9: range and swinging the club to the right of them.
Speaker 9: Put a stick in the ground, an alignment rod in
Speaker 9: the ground in front of you, and try to start
Speaker 9: the ball to the right of the stick. When it
Speaker 9: initially starts flying off your club. That will make you
Speaker 9: less focus on your swing. Lets your natural athleticism take over.
Speaker 9: If you're looking at where do I want the ball
Speaker 9: to go? Focus on where you're starting the ball, and
Speaker 9: that will bring the club into the path it needs
Speaker 9: to be.
Speaker 2: I always so much appreciate the fact that you claim
Speaker 2: I'm this natural athlete that needs to just lean into
Speaker 2: my athleticism.
Speaker 1: When I play golf, it means a lot ball, So
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 9: Hey, one of us played for Rickman, Jerris and the Ristlers,
Speaker 9: didn't I think it's real.
Speaker 1: Well, that's not entire like, Okay, a few months, but
Speaker 1: you know whatever.
Speaker 2: Okay, one more tip day. How do I sink every
Speaker 2: single putt within twelve feet?
Speaker 9: You don't, Okay, putting is hard, and not every good
Speaker 9: putt goes in, not every bad put stays out. I
Speaker 9: would focus on making sure that your next putt is
Speaker 9: a tap d no stress, something you don't have to mark.
Speaker 9: And if that is your goal, it's attainable, it's doable,
Speaker 9: and it focuses you on getting the speed right and
Speaker 9: then pets will just start falling because they will. But
Speaker 9: keep in mind that the break even point for the
Speaker 9: on the PGA Tour, the two hundred best players on
Speaker 9: the planet, the guy's visiting from Krypton, the break even
Speaker 9: point is eight feet. Inside eight feet, they start making
Speaker 9: more than fifty percent. Outside of eight feet, they start
Speaker 9: making less than fifty percent. So at twelve feet you're
Speaker 9: making the best players on the planet. They're making less
Speaker 9: than fifty percent. We should not expect to be better
Speaker 9: than that.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm glad you brought up the pros.
Speaker 2: I want to let's lean into this for a second
Speaker 2: because I was playing with our guy Richard Smith today
Speaker 2: Wes rough shout out our guy Wesley Roff. And you know,
Speaker 2: I've told you this before, and I want you to
Speaker 2: kind of elaborate on this.
Speaker 1: I think for the average.
Speaker 2: Golfer who's trying to get better, I think for the
Speaker 2: average golfer that maybe doesn't watch a ton of pro golf,
Speaker 2: the assumption is the pros just pure every shot and
Speaker 2: they did. You know they they hit every fairway, they
Speaker 2: hit every green. And as I told you when I
Speaker 2: went down to Bay Hill as an honorary observer, it
Speaker 2: was the first time I saw it up close. When
Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, they're not perfect. They just figure it out.
Speaker 2: They problem solve right, like they know how to problem solve.
Speaker 2: So elaborate on that a little bit. As you've watched
Speaker 2: the professionals, both on the men's and the women's side,
Speaker 2: what really makes them different? Now their misses are different
Speaker 2: than ours. And I'm not saying like it's not more
Speaker 2: pure than the average golfer.
Speaker 1: It clearly is. But they're not perfect, Paul, are They.
Speaker 9: Not even close? And I really appreciate the way you
Speaker 9: say that. I love your term problem solved. Let's use
Speaker 9: that Golf is a presentation of a series of problems,
Speaker 9: a series of questions that it is asking you to solve.
Speaker 9: And these guys are good at solving the question. Now,
Speaker 9: they will hit great shots, that's true. Their misses are
Speaker 9: smaller than ours, that's totally true. And on occasion there
Speaker 9: is just staggering greatness. The highlight reel that a Tiger
Speaker 9: Woods puts together are just incredible. But I want to
Speaker 9: really focus on something that Tiger said a couple three
Speaker 9: years ago, and he was asked to say, you know,
Speaker 9: what was it about your two thousand and two thousand
Speaker 9: and one dominant period in the game. He thought for
Speaker 9: a minute, and he shrugged, and he said, I was
Speaker 9: a pretty good lag petter. Well there's yeah, there's a
Speaker 9: lot in there, and well look at what there isn't
Speaker 9: He didn't talk about being a great ball striker, though
Speaker 9: he was. He didn't talk about hitting a series of
Speaker 9: incredible shots. Though he did what he talked about was
Speaker 9: taking care of the basic business. He executed double plays.
Speaker 9: If you're going to go baseball, he executed layups if
Speaker 9: you're going to go basketball. He took care of lagging
Speaker 9: the putt into the first putt into a place where
Speaker 9: he had no stress on the second, and so he
Speaker 9: didn't give shots back. And so now you're going to
Speaker 9: go full circle. That brings me to the real thing
Speaker 9: that they do. The superpower that these pros have is
Speaker 9: that they don't give shots away. They make pars by scrambling,
Speaker 9: they make pars by playing smart, and then they go
Speaker 9: on to the next hole and see if it presents
Speaker 9: an opportunity for a birdie, and if it doesn't, they
Speaker 9: make a par and they rinse and repeat. They don't
Speaker 9: give shots back, and that's their superpower.
Speaker 2: Okay, Paul, I have learned lessons from you and others
Speaker 2: that know the game in a way that I don't
Speaker 2: that we do not say, wow, that's kind of tiger
Speaker 2: ish or he's kind of reminded me of Tiger that
Speaker 2: and I understand that what Tiger did during I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe a three or four year period is something that
Speaker 2: we have never seen before and potential we'll never see again.
Speaker 2: But I haven't talked to you since the PGA Championship.
Speaker 2: And look, man, he's healthy now. And by he everyone
Speaker 2: knows who I'm talking about. Scott, He's healthy now and
Speaker 2: based off of what he did, did he year ago
Speaker 2: and now that he's got another major in his back pocket.
Speaker 2: Just you put the context around really what we're watching
Speaker 2: when he is at the top of his game.
Speaker 9: We are looking at Tiger esque performance. We are in addition,
Speaker 9: we are looking at Jack Nicholas performance, and that is
Speaker 9: the rarest air in the game. We're talking about somebody
Speaker 9: with three majors and the players by their twenty eighth birthday,
Speaker 9: that's a group of three. It's Jack Nicholas, it is
Speaker 9: although Nicholas didn't have the players because by his twenty eighth,
Speaker 9: because they didn't have it yet. But it's Jack Nicholas,
Speaker 9: it's Tiger Woods, and it's Scotti Scheffler. But in addition,
Speaker 9: when you dig into the underlying performance statistics, when you
Speaker 9: look at the greens in regulation, the proximity to the whole,
Speaker 9: the bogie avoidance, which is a huge stat that very
Speaker 9: seldom gives the do it deserves when you look at
Speaker 9: these underlying performance stats, Scheffler is on that level of
Speaker 9: performance with Tiger Woods, with Jack Nicholas. He is twenty
Speaker 9: eight years old. Generally you figure that for a golfer,
Speaker 9: their prime years are thirty to thirty six. He's coming,
Speaker 9: he's still looking forward to his prime yeers, and he
Speaker 9: is statistically dominant. Right now, we are talking about a
Speaker 9: person who is on the cusp of and has potential
Speaker 9: to establish a career on the par with the Tiger
Speaker 9: Woods and the Jack Nicholas. Now, now that I say that, though,
Speaker 9: we have to pump the brakes just a little bit.
Speaker 9: The world of sports is so full of early stars
Speaker 9: that don't maintain and carry it forward over the intervening years.
Speaker 9: We have yet to see if Scheffler can do it
Speaker 9: for the next ten years, but all of the underlaying
Speaker 9: indicators say that he will.
Speaker 2: Okay, who is most likely to be his? Oh, man,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to tell me here?
Speaker 1: His Phil?
Speaker 2: His Phil Nicholson? Who was Jack's main competitor? Was it
Speaker 2: Arnie Like? Who is most likely to be Scotty's? I
Speaker 2: guess I'll say antagonist. If Scotty's the protagonist.
Speaker 9: Yeah, what a fun question. So for Nicholas it was
Speaker 9: it was Arnold Palmer and Gary Player, although Billy Casper
Speaker 9: utah z owed. Billy Casper was right there, but a
Speaker 9: very quiet personality, and so he didn't get a lot
Speaker 9: of news. And you're correct to identify Phil Nicholson. But
Speaker 9: in addition to Phil, it was Ernie Els and VJ.
Speaker 9: Singh for Tiger. So who for Scottie? What a fun question.
Speaker 9: I think it's going to come from players younger than
Speaker 9: him right now. I think it's going to come from
Speaker 9: players like Luke Clanton, this college kid who is is
Speaker 9: coming up in making a lot of noise. We're going
Speaker 9: to see younger players coming out of college and doing
Speaker 9: things that there just wasn't the institutional support for them
Speaker 9: to do in previous generations. Because the path to the
Speaker 9: PJ Tour is now open to college stars in ways
Speaker 9: that it wasn't before. So that's a fun question. I'm
Speaker 9: going to have fun thinking about it and watching it.
Speaker 9: But right now, I think it's going to come from
Speaker 9: a younger generation, not his age peers, not Scotty's age peers.
Speaker 2: Right now, all right, Paul Kind of a random little
Speaker 2: bit of a non sequitur. But we're halfway through the
Speaker 2: major championship season with a couple of majors now behind us,
Speaker 2: and we're four months away from the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: Okay, so Luke Donald.
Speaker 2: Obviously Captain Keegan, you know, which is kind of a
Speaker 2: fun story. Some tough decisions, as there is every single year.
Speaker 2: My first question in this scope of our conversation is
Speaker 2: will Tony now make the Ryder Cup team.
Speaker 9: Today? He certainly wouldn't, and so he would need to
Speaker 9: change his arc and trajectory and do it quickly. I
Speaker 9: think that he has to play well in the remaining majors,
Speaker 9: in particular at the US Open at Oakmont, And the
Speaker 9: reason for that is, first of all, it is Oakmont,
Speaker 9: for crying out loud, the biggest, baddest US Open course
Speaker 9: there is. And if you think US Open, you think
Speaker 9: traditional US Open, Oakmont is the answer to all your questions.
Speaker 9: And this is such an incredibly demanding golf course and
Speaker 9: so doing well at Oakmont will be necessary for Tony
Speaker 9: to be able to make the Ryder Cup team. And
Speaker 9: part of the reason for that is that it's just
Speaker 9: playing the US Open. But the other half of the
Speaker 9: reason is that the Ryder Cup will be at beth
Speaker 9: Played Bethpage Black, and beth Page Black is a big
Speaker 9: bad golf course too, and so demonstrating the ability to
Speaker 9: play big bad golf on a big bad golf course
Speaker 9: that is going to be necessary. The opportunity comes at
Speaker 9: the US Open the second week of June. It will
Speaker 9: be at Oakmont. Watch the US Open carefully. The Open Championship,
Speaker 9: the British Open port Rush this year a different kind
Speaker 9: of golf and it will require a different kind of play.
Speaker 9: Not as big as Oakmont, but then again, very few
Speaker 9: things are. It requires more subtlety, it requires more art,
Speaker 9: but a different kind of test at port Rush that
Speaker 9: it is where the entire world is watching. Tony has
Speaker 9: to play well in the two remaining majors to make
Speaker 9: the Ryder Cup team.
Speaker 2: Obviously, Scott he is a lock. Any other locks right
Speaker 2: now as you see it, Paul.
Speaker 9: As nobody is locked as Scotty. Sure, Sure, We've just
Speaker 9: got too many points out there yet to be awarded.
Speaker 9: So no, I think the answer is no.
Speaker 2: It feels like Xander's in a good spot. It feels
Speaker 2: like Bryson's in good spot. It feels like JT is
Speaker 2: in a good spot.
Speaker 1: Maybe more cowa.
Speaker 9: Let me throw they have to not fall on their face.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, let's it's just too early to say, let me.
Speaker 2: Throw one more thing at you here, though, because when
Speaker 2: I first asked you whether or not Keegan Bradley should
Speaker 2: pick himself, you were emphatic that he should not. Now
Speaker 2: maybe you feel still feel that way. But he has
Speaker 2: six top twenty fives in his first eleven starts. He
Speaker 2: tied for eight that the PGA Championship. He is outside
Speaker 2: the top six as of now, But if he keeps playing,
Speaker 2: even if he's maybe seventh or eighth.
Speaker 1: Have you changed your stance.
Speaker 2: On whether or not Keegan should select himself to play
Speaker 2: while he serves as captain.
Speaker 6: I have not.
Speaker 9: I think that the captaincy is such a demanding role
Speaker 9: that it requires all of his attention, and I think
Speaker 9: he would undermine his ability to give total focus to
Speaker 9: playing if he were a player and the captain. So
Speaker 9: even if he were to get himself in by points,
Speaker 9: I personally think that he should focus on being the captain.
Speaker 9: He's inside the ropes and I'm not He's smarter than
Speaker 9: me and a better player than me. But from my perspective,
Speaker 9: everything says if you're going to be the captain, be
Speaker 9: the captain. And he's the captain.
Speaker 1: All right. There is a tournament going on right now.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: It's not a great field. Scott He's in the field,
Speaker 2: but he hasn't played that well. He is tied for
Speaker 2: forty seventh for the Charles Schwab Challenge down at Colonial
Speaker 2: Country Club in Fort Worth. So tell us about the track,
Speaker 2: tell us about the tournament, then we'll find out what's
Speaker 2: going on with the n and find out what's going
Speaker 2: on with the show.
Speaker 9: Sure, thank you. The Schwab Challenge Colonial. This is one
Speaker 9: of those traditional lovely tournaments that kind of got the
Speaker 9: short stick when the PGA Tour went to this elevated
Speaker 9: tournament status thing that they're doing now, because it's a
Speaker 9: tournament with a lot of history, and yet it doesn't
Speaker 9: draw the big field because it doesn't offer as much
Speaker 9: money or as many points, and that's really unfortunate. This
Speaker 9: is a wonderful tournament on a great golf course with
Speaker 9: a great history, and I wish it got a stronger field,
Speaker 9: but it doesn't. Scotty's playing in it because it's a
Speaker 9: little bit of a hometown thing, and he gave the
Speaker 9: sponsors his commitment he would go, and he did, and
Speaker 9: he showed up. Go Scotty. I admire that he's not
Speaker 9: playing particularly well. What was like something like okay, yeah,
Speaker 9: Now that raises an interesting thing. Playing well the week
Speaker 9: after a major win is so stupid hard that we
Speaker 9: still will talk about when Bernhard Langer won at Heritage
Speaker 9: the week after he won the Masters, now it's forty
Speaker 9: five years ago, because it's just so hard. Winning a
Speaker 9: major takes so much out of you mentally, physically, emotionally,
Speaker 9: in every way. You're left depleted by the time you
Speaker 9: win a major. And so you know, Scotty remained standing
Speaker 9: for seventy two holes. It's pretty impressive. The week after
Speaker 9: he won the PGA in the manner in which he wanted.
Speaker 9: I mean, you know, keep in mind, going into the
Speaker 9: back nine on Sunday, there were a lot of people
Speaker 9: in that tournament and Scotty had to dig deep and
Speaker 9: turn on the gas and go win the thing, which
Speaker 9: he did. But it's it takes a toll, and so
Speaker 9: the very next week for him to peg it and
Speaker 9: let it fly, there's no reason to expect him to
Speaker 9: do very well at all. I don't think.
Speaker 6: Good.
Speaker 9: But anyway, it's unfortunate that a tournament with this history
Speaker 9: doesn't get a good field.
Speaker 2: It all right, Paul, Before I say you lose, We've
Speaker 2: got I think aute and several BYU golfers playing well
Speaker 2: in the NCAA's So I would imagine that will be
Speaker 2: a topic of conversation, maybe the topic du jour, as
Speaker 2: they say in the business.
Speaker 1: What's coming up on the show tomorrow?
Speaker 9: Absolutely we're going to be talking about the NCAA Finals.
Speaker 9: The Cougars made it as a team. They won the regionals,
Speaker 9: first time since regionals were established some ten twelve years
Speaker 9: ago that DYU has actually won a regional, although they've
Speaker 9: come out of regionals into the NCAA Finals many times.
Speaker 9: So they are at La Costa in carlsbat, California. As
Speaker 9: a team. The youths were one stupid shot short of
Speaker 9: qualifying to go on to play in the Nationals. However,
Speaker 9: their horse, Braxton Watts, won the regionals individually, so he
Speaker 9: is there as an individual they have. The morning Wave
Speaker 9: has completed its work down at LaCosta this morning. The
Speaker 9: afternoon wave is just getting going here about an hour ago,
Speaker 9: so we really don't know where scores are coming in yet.
Speaker 9: But there is an interesting sidebar to this. The stroke
Speaker 9: play portion of the tournament will be played today, Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
Speaker 9: and Monday. Brigham Youam University doesn't play on Sunday, so
Speaker 9: the NCAA accommodated them by letting them play their round
Speaker 9: three yesterday. They already have their third round score in
Speaker 9: the books. They shot plus one as a team in
Speaker 9: their third round score. We don't yet know what that means,
Speaker 9: whether it's really good or not so good, but we
Speaker 9: do know what it is. They shot plus one for
Speaker 9: their Sunday round and it's done. We're going to see
Speaker 9: how that all plays out.
Speaker 2: Paul, thank you sir for the time. Have a great
Speaker 2: show tomorrow and we will catch up soon.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Stavi, Paul pugmyer Utah Golf Radio every Saturday morning on
Speaker 2: our radio station. The eyes of the PGA Tour are
Speaker 2: on the Charles Swab Challenge going on right now at
Speaker 2: the Colonial Country Club and Fort Worth, Texas, where some
Speaker 2: guy named Ben Griffin as lead. I don't know many
Speaker 2: of these golfers. Ricky Fowler is in the mix. Scottie
Speaker 2: Scheffler's in the field, he's not playing well. Jordan Speak's
Speaker 2: gonna miss another cut. So a few big names, you
Speaker 2: know what goes well with golf here? How about that
Speaker 2: our good friends at Rooster's Brewing four locations, two in Ogden,
Speaker 2: one when Layton of course, the airport as well.
Speaker 1: Roostersbrewingco. Dot com. Let's welcome in the head brewer.
Speaker 2: He's very important up in Ogden, Colton on a Friday afternoon.
Speaker 1: Happy Friday, Colton. How you doing I'm doing it well.
Speaker 1: How it's yourself good?
Speaker 2: So how'd you get into this? How does one become
Speaker 2: a head brewer? How did you get into this whole thing?
Speaker 1: Oh goodness?
Speaker 11: Kind of a kind of an apprenticeship thing for me.
Speaker 11: I start working at Roosters when I was seventeen years
Speaker 11: old as a busser and kind of worked my way
Speaker 11: up hosting, serving, bartending, and then Physician opened up, and yeah,
Speaker 11: it brought me in and taught me everything I know.
Speaker 1: Very nice. Well, celebrating thirty years this summer.
Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite spots, going it back to
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five and historic twenty fifth Street where it
Speaker 2: all began, So tell us Colton about the Hibiscus Sour
Speaker 2: or this two bit Amber that.
Speaker 1: You guys are brought in the studio.
Speaker 2: What do we know about these What do we need
Speaker 2: to know about these beers?
Speaker 11: Alrighty, So with the Hibiscus Hour, that's one of our
Speaker 11: newer fays that we've got. It's a nice, pretty level sour.
Speaker 11: It's not overly, it's not it's got some nice, full
Speaker 11: characteristics to it and all that that you get from
Speaker 11: the biscus. It's for the sour heads, and it's a
Speaker 11: good introductory sour for people that I've never really.
Speaker 1: Tried it before.
Speaker 11: And then with our two Bit Amber, that's just kind
Speaker 11: of throwback to one of our first beers that we
Speaker 11: came up with twenty five thirty years ago.
Speaker 1: So very nice.
Speaker 2: Roosters now with two family friendly brew pub locations as
Speaker 2: well as a twenty one plus tap room in Ogden,
Speaker 2: fresh food pairings and throwbacks to the original menu are
Speaker 2: being featured all summer long. Like I said, cheers to
Speaker 2: thirty years. It's heading now into the Memorial weekend. Now
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to one of our favorite events of
Speaker 2: the year. It's the Ofoam which is an independent bluegrass
Speaker 2: festival in Weaver County. Roosters will be pouring beers all
Speaker 2: ofo am long Friday through Sunday. Made the thirtieth to
Speaker 2: June the First Go Try Anniversary two bit amber Ale, Colton.
Speaker 1: I appreciate your time, man, have a great weekend. We'll
Speaker 1: chat soon as well.
Speaker 2: Thank you all right, good friends over at Rooster's Brewing
Speaker 2: again four locations two and Ogden one in Layton.
Speaker 1: There's one of the airport as well.
Speaker 2: More information can be found at Roostersbrewingco dot com. Team
Speaker 2: Minors two hours tip off Madison Square Garden Game two
Speaker 2: New York Knicks Indiana Pacers. Oh goodness, you know what
Speaker 2: our next guest. I know he's a football guy, but
Speaker 2: he's a New York guy.
Speaker 1: Mike, how are you?
Speaker 8: Pal?
Speaker 6: Well? I was good until you just kind of like
Speaker 6: planted the seed of what happened the other night at MSG.
Speaker 6: I don't I don't need that reminder. So yes, definitely
Speaker 6: a high level of frustration watching the Indiana Pacers win
Speaker 6: that game of the way that they did.
Speaker 1: Dude, I still can't believe it.
Speaker 2: I didn't sleep, I honestly didn't because I was having
Speaker 2: I was oscillating between Tyrese Halliburton and Reggie Miller putting
Speaker 2: their hands around there. Yeah, and then Reggie's shots and
Speaker 2: Mark Jackson shimming and the Davis brothers beating up Charles
Speaker 2: Oakley and look, I mean, as a lifelong fan of
Speaker 2: this team. Two part question, what's it been like to
Speaker 2: at least watch them be relevant again? And just how
Speaker 2: heartbreaking was game one? Three part question? And are you
Speaker 2: confident they can get back into it tonight?
Speaker 6: Definitely confident on winning tonight, like we'll get it done.
Speaker 6: That's the fan of me thinking very very positively, which,
Speaker 6: by the way, and you know this as as a
Speaker 6: sort of a Nick fan. When you when you suffer,
Speaker 6: you know, a quarter centre of some of the struggles,
Speaker 6: it's easy to get negative and quite frankly doubt what
Speaker 6: your team is capable of doing. This does feel like
Speaker 6: a different vibe though, around this particular NIX team. So
Speaker 6: definitely confident from that perspective, feel a lot of the
Speaker 6: pain that you're describing, because honestly, when Haliburton mimicked the
Speaker 6: Reggie thing, almost threw something at the TV, I'm like,
Speaker 6: you got to be kidding me. Should be noted by
Speaker 6: the way Reggie and company. They did lose that series,
Speaker 6: for whatever it's worth, and you know, they obviously went
Speaker 6: back and forth and there were some great mega playoff
Speaker 6: series between the two teams during the course of the nineties.
Speaker 6: But I do feel confident that they can get this
Speaker 6: thing done. I forget what part two was in the question,
Speaker 6: and hopefully I'm covering that a little bit.
Speaker 2: Just as a lifelong fan of his team, since it's
Speaker 2: been twenty five years, how fun has it been to
Speaker 2: at least have them relevant on the scale again?
Speaker 1: Mike? Is he still there? Did you drop? I think so?
Speaker 1: It was a hard hitting question.
Speaker 2: Let's get it. Let's get him back on Mike Yam
Speaker 2: NFL Network. You guys probably know Mike from his time
Speaker 2: at the PAC twelve network. That's when we first were
Speaker 2: able to get to know him. We're interviewed mostly the
Speaker 2: NFL and college football, but Mike is a New Yorker,
Speaker 2: went to school there, and so I wanted to kind
Speaker 2: of kick the tires on what it's been like for
Speaker 2: him to watch this team.
Speaker 1: It is Team minus.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: One hour and fifty three minutes from tip off at
Speaker 2: Madison Square Garden, Game two, Nicks Pacers. We also have
Speaker 2: Oilers and Stars tonight. If you're looking for the hockey
Speaker 2: side of things, you can hear Oilers Stars Game two
Speaker 2: on our radio station, ESPN seven hundred. We are your
Speaker 2: home with the Stanley Cup Playoffs here in the market.
Speaker 2: We're also your home of the NBA Playoffs, so you
Speaker 2: can hear the Knicks and the Pacers Game two on
Speaker 2: the fan Take two with Mikey and Mike. We weren't
Speaker 2: able to hear the answer to the question, just curious
Speaker 2: how it's been for you to at least have this
Speaker 2: team relevant on this level again.
Speaker 6: For sure, apologize, I don't know. I'm in a place
Speaker 6: where I actually have full bars, so I don't know
Speaker 6: what happened there. Look, this is great, and I think
Speaker 6: I speak to any sports fan for any franchise who
Speaker 6: has had to do with some struggles and prolonged struggles,
Speaker 6: because this is when your team, when you suffer and
Speaker 6: you're watching these games and you just quite frankly become
Speaker 6: almost apathetic to your own team. That's the worst place
Speaker 6: to be. So when you get this invigorated sense of
Speaker 6: of sort of pride, like you know, I couldn't tell
Speaker 6: you the last time. You know, this season obviously, and
Speaker 6: we've got flashes of it, I think at times last year.
Speaker 6: But watching this team this season, you know, I think
Speaker 6: to myself, Oh my god, like we really have a
Speaker 6: chance here, and that's all you really care about, that's
Speaker 6: all you want. It's just an opportunity to try to
Speaker 6: win a championship. And you know, watching Cat sometimes like
Speaker 6: firesome threes, I do cringe and I think to myself,
Speaker 6: you could be the most dominant player on the floor
Speaker 6: every single night. Please park yourself in the paint and
Speaker 6: just work. And I get it, like you want that's
Speaker 6: part of his game, and when they go down, I
Speaker 6: certainly like it. But there's like I wouldn't even have
Speaker 6: this conversation with you normally, but because they're relevant and
Speaker 6: because you feel like they can win, it's really exciting.
Speaker 1: Are you in New York currently? Are you in the city?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 12: No.
Speaker 6: I actually was back in New York two weeks ago,
Speaker 6: and you could feel like this buzz that that's generating.
Speaker 6: And look, I think for anyone who hasn't been to
Speaker 6: New York before, but you might think of it a
Speaker 6: certain way. I'll tell you this. When the Knicks are good,
Speaker 6: and the Knicks are relevant. New York is a basketball town.
Speaker 6: We could talk about the Yankees. I wish we could
Speaker 6: say that about the Mets, but the reality is when
Speaker 6: the Knicks are rolling, that city is absolutely electric. I
Speaker 6: felt it when I was there in the nineties. There
Speaker 6: were some good seasons in the early two thousands where
Speaker 6: you know, they were good, just not quite good enough
Speaker 6: to get over that hump, and that city, it is
Speaker 6: awesome to be a part of it.
Speaker 2: Well said, all right, let's move on to some NFL stuff, Mike,
Speaker 2: And I'm just so glad that I can sleep well
Speaker 2: knowing the next season, grown men will continue to be
Speaker 2: allowed to push you other grown men in the toush like.
Speaker 1: Dude, you know what this is.
Speaker 2: This is a testament to how football starved we are
Speaker 2: in this country. Because I cannot believe how much attention
Speaker 2: this story is received.
Speaker 6: I know, I know, I'm so with you. And by
Speaker 6: the way, they got it right, I know it was close.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: A couple of our guys sort of indicated that this
Speaker 6: thing might not actually stay alive, which I always thought
Speaker 6: was ridiculous. This is football. This is a physical sport.
Speaker 6: The true definition is are my guys better than your guys.
Speaker 6: Are we stronger at the line of scrimmage and the
Speaker 6: fact that you just now have to figure out how
Speaker 6: to stop it? Like, why do we penalize teams for
Speaker 6: having success? Like what's the difference between that and the
Speaker 6: traditional I know what the difference is, but the traditional
Speaker 6: quarterback sneak versus the inside handoff. You know, guys just
Speaker 6: moving large bodies out of the way. That's essentially kind
Speaker 6: of what this is. And I don't think the Eagles
Speaker 6: should have been by the way, I'm a Giants fan.
Speaker 6: Don't like saying this, but the Eagles shouldn't be penalized
Speaker 6: for having success running a play that is hard for
Speaker 6: the opposition to go and stop. And defensive players and
Speaker 6: I've talked to them in the NFL they have all
Speaker 6: genuinely said the same thing. I would talked to one
Speaker 6: defensive guy that said it should be not included in
Speaker 6: the game and it should be banned. Every one of
Speaker 6: them says, look, don't love it, but we got to
Speaker 6: be better to stop it, and it's on us to
Speaker 6: go and do that. No one's wanting and crying. You
Speaker 6: just got to be better.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: As a massive fan, of the television show Succession. Nothing
Speaker 2: delights me more than the thought of billionaires arguing with
Speaker 2: each other. Just how just how tense was that meeting?
Speaker 2: Based off reports I've only read, I don't know, but
Speaker 2: what's your understanding of how tense that meeting was behind
Speaker 2: closed doors?
Speaker 6: Yeah, tense is maybe a good way of describing it.
Speaker 6: You look, when you have a subject like this that
Speaker 6: does create as much controversy as it did, which is
Speaker 6: once again surprising, and the team that had the most
Speaker 6: success running it was the team that won the Super Bowl,
Speaker 6: that's going to grab you know, a lot of ears
Speaker 6: of a lot of folks. And I think when you
Speaker 6: saw people grasping at straws talking about health and safety
Speaker 6: with that specific play without any data to support it,
Speaker 6: I think some of these folks in that real we're
Speaker 6: sort of grasping trying to make a compelling argument, And
Speaker 6: the fact that it got twenty two votes, you know,
Speaker 6: is sort of like telling, at least in my mind,
Speaker 6: like this thing was was relatively close. So you know,
Speaker 6: those debates got a little heated.
Speaker 2: Do you think maybe Jeffrey Laurie should have ran his
Speaker 2: speech past his PR team before he decided to drop,
Speaker 2: you know, the things that he dropped to draw the
Speaker 2: analogy of what it felt like to actually have a
Speaker 2: play that successful.
Speaker 6: You can say whatever you want when you go on
Speaker 6: to Super Bowl that fair, you can do what you
Speaker 6: can say, whatevery. Look for me, when when you look
Speaker 6: that rosters, it is solid right, like they're not going anywhere.
Speaker 6: They're going to compete, you know, essentially over the next
Speaker 6: couple of seasons, especially because of Saque, I feel like
Speaker 6: I'm like just down across the board as a Knicks
Speaker 6: fan suffering the loss the other night. Now I'm talking
Speaker 6: about the Giants indirectly because it's the Eagles and this success.
Speaker 6: But when when you're on the top, you can say
Speaker 6: what you want, You can do what you want until
Speaker 6: you get knocked off. And you know, like all that
Speaker 6: conversation about the Kansas City Chiefs being this dominant team,
Speaker 6: like Casey's got some holes, all of a sudden that
Speaker 6: we look at with that roster, the Eagles roster looks
Speaker 6: pretty darn good though right now.
Speaker 1: It does.
Speaker 2: It does, and like you said, they're wearing the ring,
Speaker 2: you know, and when you're on that level, you have
Speaker 2: a certain level of autonomy that you certainly wouldn't otherwise.
Speaker 1: But let me ask you this.
Speaker 2: A number of years ago, at a charity event in
Speaker 2: midtown Manhattan, I had a chance to meet Jim Mersy.
Speaker 1: I certainly did, never got to know him at all.
Speaker 2: And look, I mean speaking of eccentric billionaires and you know,
Speaker 2: very very wealthy people oftentimes just to have a different
Speaker 2: way of approaching life, for better or for worse. And
Speaker 2: I'm not judging one way or the other. A lot
Speaker 2: of people have come out with a lot of very
Speaker 2: kind things. I think Peyton's been great to provide some
Speaker 2: context around what Jim Mersay means to that city and
Speaker 2: that organization. But I don't know if you ever had
Speaker 2: a chance to get to know him a little bit.
Speaker 2: But if so, like what sort of made him tick?
Speaker 2: And what are your thoughts on is passing at the
Speaker 2: age of sixty five?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean certainly shocking in the sense of the
Speaker 6: age factor. You know, we had sort of heard these
Speaker 6: reports that things were declining a little bit and Jim
Speaker 6: wasn't in the greatest health. My paths never crossed with him,
Speaker 6: but certainly have heard some first hand accounts from from
Speaker 6: a few of my colleagues at NFL network regarding him
Speaker 6: and sort of the legend around him. You're right, Peyton.
Speaker 6: I've seen a bunch of interviews with him recently where
Speaker 6: Peyton has really painted a really positive picture and the
Speaker 6: impact that he's had. I mean, we saw Jim, you know,
Speaker 6: on Hall of Fame ceremonies around a lot of his players,
Speaker 6: and this endearment that you could see that went both
Speaker 6: ways was certainly special. But I think a unique character
Speaker 6: in a lot of ways, right Like when you look
Speaker 6: at that organization, the directions and the decisions that they've made,
Speaker 6: never shy about being public. Ian Rappaport the other day
Speaker 6: actually was telling a pretty interesting story when you know
Speaker 6: about Dan Snyder and and him being with with Washington
Speaker 6: at that point and obviously all the news that had
Speaker 6: come out. You know, Jim Urseley was the first one
Speaker 6: publicly to say, hey, like this is a fireble you know,
Speaker 6: offense so to speak, right where you can have a
Speaker 6: conversation that maybe he shouldn't have of you know, ownership
Speaker 6: a majority ownership of an NFL franchise, and you know,
Speaker 6: even looking back now and as I'm like telling that
Speaker 6: story that Ian had had shared with with a lot
Speaker 6: of folks on television. I think to myself, like, that's
Speaker 6: a people person. That's like a hey, I'm trying to
Speaker 6: do the right thing type of person, even when it
Speaker 6: might not be popular. Even in a room with other
Speaker 6: NFL owners, we're generally speaking, you might have some of
Speaker 6: those debates, but you know you're gonna there's gonna be
Speaker 6: a cohesiveness around you know, a particular subject like that
Speaker 6: you would imagine, or people aren't going to go public
Speaker 6: with it. Jim did go public with and I think
Speaker 6: that speaks to the character and the type of person
Speaker 6: that he was.
Speaker 2: So ultimately, the Niners had to pay him. They had
Speaker 2: to pay brock perty and that's just the deal. And
Speaker 2: so we can haggle over the number who he makes
Speaker 2: more than, who he makes less than. We can talk
Speaker 2: about the complicated dynamic of being able to build a
Speaker 2: really good team when your quarterback is not his rookie deal.
Speaker 2: And Seattle knows that with Russell Wilson, and then a
Speaker 2: lot of teams have learned that lesson. And so we
Speaker 2: have a lot of Niners fans around here, and certainly
Speaker 2: the roster had to be stripped down a little bit
Speaker 2: to pay their starting quarterback. But like I said, I
Speaker 2: don't know what other course of action they had.
Speaker 6: Mike don't have enough. There is no other course of action.
Speaker 6: And you look at, you know, the percentages around the
Speaker 6: NFL that quarterbacks are occupying on the salary cap. This
Speaker 6: deal's not that bad. I think it's like fourteen percent,
Speaker 6: you know, spensaf shitchy at text when this thing is done.
Speaker 6: I'll get to the exact number, but I think it's
Speaker 6: in that range. And to me, that's actually what makes
Speaker 6: this feel pretty good. I think it's gaudy when you
Speaker 6: look at the numbers over fifty you know, million dollars
Speaker 6: a year. I think I said this to you a
Speaker 6: couple of weeks ago. I you know, sometimes because of
Speaker 6: my time in the Bay Area, I'll hop on some
Speaker 6: of those radio stations there, and I had said, like,
Speaker 6: you know, I guess it was like a little bit
Speaker 6: of noteworthy because people made a thing out of it.
Speaker 6: But it was like, yeah, it's gonna get fifty million dollars,
Speaker 6: that's the going rate. Like that wasn't breaking news. That
Speaker 6: shouldn't have been shocking to anyone. But you know, you
Speaker 6: don't have much of a choice. You can't win in
Speaker 6: this league without that position being occupied in a meaningful way.
Speaker 6: So they absolutely needed him to sign, and they needed
Speaker 6: to get that deal done and structure in a way
Speaker 6: where they can still make potentially some other moves.
Speaker 2: So I will ask you about the Steelers Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 2: stuff because it's topical. I don't really care to talk
Speaker 2: much about Aaron on the show as a jet fan
Speaker 2: that saw that thing really falling flat on its face
Speaker 2: far before Aaron was hurt, quite frankly. But anyway, the
Speaker 2: Steelers have to do something, and the reports are they're still
Speaker 2: waiting and are willing to wait for a little bit
Speaker 2: while Aaron does whatever the hell Aaron's doing.
Speaker 1: How do you think this ends?
Speaker 6: I still think Aaron Rodgers is one of those those
Speaker 6: names that is always going to grab a ton of attention,
Speaker 6: and it's going to be a story that we're going
Speaker 6: to continue to track. I do think we're going to
Speaker 6: see him on an NFL football field. I still think
Speaker 6: it's going to be the Pittsburgh Steelers. I think they
Speaker 6: drafted accordingly based off of the premise that he was
Speaker 6: going to be there. I think this thing is going
Speaker 6: to go and be taken down to the wire here.
Speaker 6: I don't think Aaron's got any sort of need or
Speaker 6: desire to go through another arduous camp That said, I
Speaker 6: think when you go down this path like the Jets did,
Speaker 6: it becomes a little bit of a problem, right, Like
Speaker 6: the circus that's going to follow is significant. I know
Speaker 6: you know all about this. You and I have talked
Speaker 6: about the Jets a ton. I think the fact that
Speaker 6: they've had to go down the path that they did
Speaker 6: is telling. I think there's something still left in the
Speaker 6: tank for Aaron, if I'm being totally honest, I think
Speaker 6: you saw some flashes of that in the second half
Speaker 6: of the season. I think it's really hard to come
Speaker 6: off an Achilles injury, especially at that age, and be
Speaker 6: really effective. But I actually thought there were some good
Speaker 6: stuff that we saw from Aaron Rodgers in the second
Speaker 6: half of the season. So cautiously optimistic that this is
Speaker 6: a guy that might be able to give this team
Speaker 6: enough of a nudge to sort of get over the hunt,
Speaker 6: because there's some fundamental issues right now with that team.
Speaker 6: They're good, they're not great, and the worst position to
Speaker 6: be in the NFL is a good team because you're
Speaker 6: not going to pick that far up and you're just,
Speaker 6: you know, do you have a real chance of winning
Speaker 6: a Super Bowl? And that's really what it comes down to.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you a storyline surrounding one of
Speaker 2: our old PAC twelve pals. Of course, Caleb Williams in
Speaker 2: this book that Seth Wickersham has wrote, and Seth is a.
Speaker 1: Brilliant rider, does a good job.
Speaker 2: And you know, Mike, you remember there were these rumors
Speaker 2: out there that no one could really coroborate, that he
Speaker 2: didn't want to go to Chicago and his father didn't
Speaker 2: want him to play for the Bears. And then every
Speaker 2: time Caleb was asked about it publicly, of course you
Speaker 2: say the thing that you have to say to make
Speaker 2: sure you're still the number one overall pick. But these
Speaker 2: details that Caleb and his father attempted to circumvent the
Speaker 2: draft process to maybe land him anywhere other than Chicago
Speaker 2: certainly a rough look for a player that has to
Speaker 2: go back and try to lead this locker room once again?
Speaker 1: What do you make of this story surrounding Caleb Williams?
Speaker 6: So, I think there's a lot of layers here. Number One,
Speaker 6: you can make the argument that who would want to
Speaker 6: play in Chicago as a quarterback. So look at the
Speaker 6: history of that organization over the last twenty five years
Speaker 6: or so, haven't had success there. Their head coach at
Speaker 6: the time a defensive minded guy who quite frankly didn't
Speaker 6: ever really seem to figure it out at that position
Speaker 6: on the offensive side. So I can certainly understand the
Speaker 6: need and the desire not to want to play there,
Speaker 6: just off of face value and that situation. Playing also
Speaker 6: in Chicago. And actually one of my good buddies, Curtis Conway,
Speaker 6: who went to USC you just like Caleb, and then
Speaker 6: ended up playing you know, at Chicago. It was tough
Speaker 6: for him, Like he had told me a little bit
Speaker 6: about what that experience is like, playing in the cold
Speaker 6: and trying to to kind of deal with those conditions
Speaker 6: not always the easiest thing. So I'm sure they're a
Speaker 6: little bit of a factor there. And then here's the
Speaker 6: third layer. Tell me in recent history, where we've talked
Speaker 6: about a high level quarterback that's had this much attention,
Speaker 6: this much buzz, that didn't have some opinions in terms
Speaker 6: of his family and where they wanted him to go.
Speaker 6: You know, I mentioned, you know, being a Giants fan.
Speaker 6: I don't think it's the same sort of situation there
Speaker 6: with Eli Manning. But you know, quite frankly, like we
Speaker 6: knew what those reports were John Elway, you know, go
Speaker 6: even further back in time, like this is nothing new
Speaker 6: that we've seen in the NFL. But I do think
Speaker 6: it's a little bit of a harder look because of
Speaker 6: the current circumstances. But I do think Caleb can say,
Speaker 6: or you know, some some through another representative, it can
Speaker 6: sort of spin this and just say, look look at
Speaker 6: what this offense was, Like, this was going to be
Speaker 6: a tough sell to put this guy under the gun.
Speaker 6: And by the way, like you even saw that those
Speaker 6: first few weeks of the season in his rookie campaign,
Speaker 6: there were some real struggles and you start thinking, like, schematically,
Speaker 6: does this make sense? Should we, you know, be running
Speaker 6: the type of offense they got real run heavy after
Speaker 6: the firing of the refluse, And I think that actually helped,
Speaker 6: you know, Caleb sort of settle down a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you reference the Giants just out of curiosity.
Speaker 2: Of course, they bring in Russell Wilson and they have
Speaker 2: Jamis as the backup, but we didn't have It was
Speaker 2: kind of an outlier NFL draft cycle around here. Not
Speaker 2: a lot of Utes or Cougar's you know, drafted very
Speaker 2: high and hopefully a lot of them stick on rosters,
Speaker 2: the ones that were drafted late. But Jackson Dark played
Speaker 2: his high school ball about thirty miles south of the
Speaker 2: are I want or what early returns are with Jackson
Speaker 2: and you know, the early rookie mini camps and such.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the moxie. I think that's still like the biggest message.
Speaker 6: I have some friends that are still in that area,
Speaker 6: in the New York area, around that organization, and they'll
Speaker 6: tell you they've told me, and they would tell you
Speaker 6: the same thing. And that's this premise of the direction
Speaker 6: and the reason why they went with Jackson Dark. It
Speaker 6: was one of the things that you know, when I
Speaker 6: was working for the CW this past year, we had
Speaker 6: ACC football and we obviously had the Pac twelve, but
Speaker 6: Ole Miss was up on our screen, you know a
Speaker 6: few times, and it's because it's Jackson and I knew
Speaker 6: there was a petition for him to be you know,
Speaker 6: first round pick, and the fact that he was at
Speaker 6: SC at one point, you know, I was always kind
Speaker 6: of keep a close eye on sort of him and
Speaker 6: those offenses because they were they were sort of dealing,
Speaker 6: and the more I watched them, the more I said,
Speaker 6: there's a little bit of I know, I don't want
Speaker 6: to use a foul word, but like he's got a
Speaker 6: little something in him there, and you know, knowing day
Speaker 6: Ball and the type of offense that he wants to
Speaker 6: run in the personnel that he needs there and having
Speaker 6: that type of here and that dynamic in New York,
Speaker 6: Like that's meaningful. I always say this, and you know
Speaker 6: this because of your time in that city, and you've
Speaker 6: sort of asked me about sort of the vibe in
Speaker 6: New York. It is a different place and there is
Speaker 6: a different personality that you need to go and have,
Speaker 6: And I think like Cam'scattaboo is like a really good example.
Speaker 6: Like I think Cam is going to absolutely crush it
Speaker 6: in New York, Like he's got that type of personality.
Speaker 6: And I think Jackson Dart fits that mold as well.
Speaker 2: Speaking of quarterbacks, Mike, since you and I last spoke,
Speaker 2: and I was reminded our listeners earlier that we got
Speaker 2: to know you and a lot of people around here
Speaker 2: remember you from your time with the PAC twelve network,
Speaker 2: and you got to know Cameron Rising pretty well. And
Speaker 2: we've been waiting, Yeah, we've been waiting out here for
Speaker 2: a word about what he would do with his future.
Speaker 2: I fully anticipated and would certainly have had no problem
Speaker 2: with it at all, Cameron finding a place to play
Speaker 2: for another year and make a couple hundred k I mean,
Speaker 2: put the real world off as long as you want,
Speaker 2: young man. But we now know that unfortunately he asked
Speaker 2: him retire. He'll take over his the offensive coordinator at
Speaker 2: his alma mater in California. As we now officially know
Speaker 2: what his future is, how should Cameron rise and be
Speaker 2: remembered here in Salt Lake City.
Speaker 6: I think a winner, a leader, a guy that didn't
Speaker 6: necessarily give up at all. And I think that's been
Speaker 6: one of the key ingredients to that story. And I
Speaker 6: think it speaks to the type of player and personality
Speaker 6: and the profile of the guy that goes and plays
Speaker 6: on that campus. For Kyle Whittingham, I know, and you
Speaker 6: probably would agree with this, But the more I watched him,
Speaker 6: the more impressed I was. The more you talk to
Speaker 6: people around that team about him inside that locker room,
Speaker 6: what he sort of meant to that to that ball club,
Speaker 6: and really, you know, in a lot of ways sort
Speaker 6: of helping spearhead and settle down an offense that's been
Speaker 6: much aligned. I mean when I was in the league
Speaker 6: covering the thing every single day, like we always knew
Speaker 6: it what that defense was going to look like, We
Speaker 6: knew that was going to lead them, We knew that
Speaker 6: inside the trenches they were going to be good. But look,
Speaker 6: it was a revolving door at the offense sub coordinator spot,
Speaker 6: and it always felt like, you know, year after year
Speaker 6: we were talking about a significant injury to their quarterback
Speaker 6: and that was never an easy thing to go and
Speaker 6: watch when you felt like the expectation was high. But
Speaker 6: I think Camp should only be remembered for for all
Speaker 6: the positive that he did on the football field.
Speaker 2: All right back, before I say you lose another NFL
Speaker 2: offseason storyline that I've just I'll just ask you. So
Speaker 2: it's official that NFL players are going to be allowed
Speaker 2: to play flag football in the Olympics in twenty.
Speaker 1: Twenty eight, who are we playing against?
Speaker 2: Like, I'm just confused, world, this football is an innately
Speaker 2: American sport. It feels like we should play against each other,
Speaker 2: Like who out there can feel the team to compete
Speaker 2: with our NFL players, or is this ninety two dream
Speaker 2: team where we're going to be diagnola by forty every
Speaker 2: single game?
Speaker 6: So God, we could do a whole show on this.
Speaker 6: And I love where you're going because I actually haven't
Speaker 6: been asked this question before. Here's what I can tell you.
Speaker 6: The United States world rankings teams like Germany, Italy. If
Speaker 6: I'm not mistaken, Australia's got a pretty decent team as well.
Speaker 6: There are rankings. You can google them and you can
Speaker 6: see like who's done well? Right? The US team by
Speaker 6: a mile is dominating these rankings. I've heard the analogies
Speaker 6: with the dream team. You're a basketball guy, I'm a
Speaker 6: basketball guy. We both know the dynamics around the reason
Speaker 6: why that dream team came together and this. These are
Speaker 6: two different different paths for two different sports. I don't
Speaker 6: think it's a four gone conclusion and I might take
Speaker 6: some serious heat for this. I don't think it's a
Speaker 6: fore gone conclusion that some of the NFL players are
Speaker 6: not as good as some of the flag football players.
Speaker 6: It is a different sport, it is played differently, It
Speaker 6: is not the same. I would tell you if there
Speaker 6: was a draft and who the guys I'm taking everyone
Speaker 6: talks about Mahomes and Lamar Jackson. This thing is three
Speaker 6: seasons away, three football seasons away. Those dudes are going
Speaker 6: to be a little bit older. This is not what
Speaker 6: we see in the bowl games. Like these guys legitimately
Speaker 6: get after it. I would be concerned about soft tissue injuries.
Speaker 6: There's no pads. I think you're going to see two
Speaker 6: way players. Like to me, you know, Tarik Woolan is
Speaker 6: a guy. The other day someone asked me, like, Hey,
Speaker 6: who's someone you'd want. I want a speed guy like Wolan,
Speaker 6: Who's who's got experience as a wide receiver, place corner now,
Speaker 6: but he transitioned. Travis Hunter certainly comes to mind. He
Speaker 6: wants these freak athletes. But I do think there's a
Speaker 6: world where it's they're going to dominate. Whether it's NFL
Speaker 6: players or not, it's going to dominate. But I do
Speaker 6: think that the guys that have helped the United States
Speaker 6: rise up the rankings and help lead a charge to
Speaker 6: make this legitimately Olympic sport do deserve an opportunity to
Speaker 6: grab one of those roster spots. It would be very
Speaker 6: meaningful for them because they are the ones that prefer
Speaker 6: to put this sport on the map, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Mike, I appreciate the time.
Speaker 2: We're about ninety minutes away, so let's see if we
Speaker 2: can get it done tonight, Game two and Man, I
Speaker 2: try to have hope as a Nick fan, but as
Speaker 2: you know, it's tough.
Speaker 1: So I appreciate your time. Man, have a great long weekend.
Speaker 6: Okay, you're the best. Man. Always appreciate the invite, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Mike Yam PAC twelve network back in the day
Speaker 2: now with our friends at the NFL Network. He is
Speaker 2: on Twitter at Mike Underscore Yam is where you find him.
Speaker 2: All right, listen up, join me.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: This guy over here who's got two thumbs and is
Speaker 2: going to be at the Kyle van Neigolf Tournament. That's
Speaker 2: me Monday, June third, for the twenty twenty five Kyle
Speaker 2: van Neudcharity Golf Challenge at the Black Desert Resort in
Speaker 2: scenic Saint George.
Speaker 1: All the proceedings from this tournament.
Speaker 2: Go to benefit the Van Neid Valor Foundation that helps
Speaker 2: foster kids and the Adoption Foundations. Kyle was adopted as
Speaker 2: an infant, so this cause is very meaningful to him
Speaker 2: and his family. Starts on Sunday, June the twenty fifth,
Speaker 2: with a welcome cocktail party at seven o'clock. Then on
Speaker 2: Monday we'll get going with check in and breakfast at
Speaker 2: Club seventy three. The welcomes at eight forty five, shotguns
Speaker 2: start at nine o'clock, the awards are at two point thirty,
Speaker 2: and lunch has served on the course. For more information,
Speaker 2: go to van Neid Golf twenty twenty five dot givesmart
Speaker 2: dot com. Andy Larsen will join us coming up next.
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Speaker 1: About an hour and twenty five minutes away.
Speaker 2: From tip off at Madison Square Garden tonight Game two
Speaker 2: Knicks Pacers after a historic collapse by the New York
Speaker 2: Knicks in Game one. We also have playoff hockey tonight
Speaker 2: for the Dallas Edmonton game. Keep it right here on
Speaker 2: ESPN seven hundred if you're looking for the basketball on
Speaker 2: the Eastern Conference final side. Checkout the fan for Game
Speaker 2: two of Knicks Pacers. Andy Larson, Salt Lake Tribune, Happy Friday, Andy,
Speaker 2: how are we doing?
Speaker 8: I'm good man?
Speaker 1: How are you I'm doing well. I'm doing well.
Speaker 2: How did you digest that horrific collapse by the Knicks
Speaker 2: and the comeback by the Pacers Game one?
Speaker 12: I mean it was fun, right, Like, I mean, I
Speaker 12: think that's one of the great things about basketball is
Speaker 12: that like that can happen that like an aaron Ne
Speaker 12: Smith and all of a sudden hit six threes and
Speaker 12: you're right back in it. And I love Halburton, you know,
Speaker 12: with the nods Reggie Miller. H I love that, you know,
Speaker 12: Reggie shot when he did the choking symbol also was
Speaker 12: tied to tie the game, and so I thought it
Speaker 12: was a brilliant homage. And Okay, I have to admit
Speaker 12: I'm you know, I suspect we are on different sides
Speaker 12: of this, but I am rooting for the Pacers a
Speaker 12: little bit because their team that's built in a really
Speaker 12: interesting way, like has just nailed trades with their with
Speaker 12: Pascalsiokoman obviously Haliburton, and then drafted really well around him
Speaker 12: with you know, picks six through thirty. Really like it's
Speaker 12: it's kind of a cool story that's just gone so
Speaker 12: under the radar, and you know, they have every good
Speaker 12: of a chance as they you know, it's the next
Speaker 12: two and maybe better to make it to the NBA Finals.
Speaker 2: Now, does it matter who makes it out of the
Speaker 2: East when Oklahoma City appears to have a level that
Speaker 2: nobody else has and maybe Boston has it when they're healthy,
Speaker 2: but they're out of course, Tatum hurt and and look,
Speaker 2: you know this, You've been watching them all year and
Speaker 2: the net is is historic. It's not like they just
Speaker 2: found this level this week. But it's just it's I
Speaker 2: feel the same way Andy about Oklahoma City now that
Speaker 2: I felt about Boston this time last year, and I
Speaker 2: just feel like they have a level that nobody else does.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I agree with that one hundred percent. I would
Speaker 12: say the only thing is, you know, you you want
Speaker 12: to get to the NBA Finals because you never know
Speaker 12: what's going to happen healthwiz, right, Like, if we're honest,
Speaker 12: the Toronto Raptors, the kawit Toronto Raptors of twenty nineteen
Speaker 12: weren't favored to win the NBA Finals in but then
Speaker 12: all of a sudden, Clay goes down and then Kevin
Speaker 12: Durant tears his achilles and then it's Stephan versus. You know,
Speaker 12: a pretty good solid Raptors team, right, Like, so if
Speaker 12: Shay goes down for whatever reason in the NBA Finals
Speaker 12: are between now and then, like, you know what, I
Speaker 12: don't think that's likely, but in that five percent chance,
Speaker 12: then yeah, I think then you know, the Pacers have
Speaker 12: a really good shot at it. But yeah, you're right,
Speaker 12: like healthy as is this thunder team is rolling. They're
Speaker 12: too good. They have been good, all too good all year.
Speaker 6: Like it's it's pretty.
Speaker 12: Clearly a thunder in five or six situation, I think
Speaker 12: against either Eastern Conference team if both sides are healthy.
Speaker 1: Shaye, excuse me, Shaye is your MVP.
Speaker 2: I believe when you last joined us, you said that
Speaker 2: you were going to cast your vote for Nicola Jokicic,
Speaker 2: which I have no problem with it all. I feel
Speaker 2: like and I'm I'm not you know me, I'm not
Speaker 2: usually of fence Center.
Speaker 1: I'm not like this.
Speaker 2: I just thought both were deserving and Shaye gets it.
Speaker 2: Give me your thoughts.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think, yeah, completely reasonable and a good pick,
Speaker 12: like just like you have no problems with anyone who
Speaker 12: went with SJA. You know, I thought of really telltale
Speaker 12: series between the two last you know, last week and
Speaker 12: two weeks ago like just both of them are very
Speaker 12: good players. Shay has a little bit more help. Jokic
Speaker 12: is probably more heliocentric offensively, right, Like, just in order
Speaker 12: for the Nuggets to succeed, they need Jokic, and in
Speaker 12: order for the Thunder to succeed, they are they are
Speaker 12: in a better place without Shay. That being said, you know,
Speaker 12: Shae has had an awesome individual year, and I think
Speaker 12: these first few games have also served to kind of
Speaker 12: draw a line between him and like the other stars
Speaker 12: of the league, like an Anthony Edwards who is struggling
Speaker 12: a little bit, was struggling with the efficiency, can't get
Speaker 12: to his spots, you know, like it has been it
Speaker 12: hasn't been easy, where I think Shay has made it
Speaker 12: look easy. And yes, you know, like people will complain
Speaker 12: about the fouls in game one. Game two is about
Speaker 12: as clean as of a performance as you're ever going
Speaker 12: to see from a star, and he maybe had even
Speaker 12: a better game, you know, like he is kind of
Speaker 12: the classic mid range sniper scorer guard that like I
Speaker 12: think NBA basketball fans love to see and so like
Speaker 12: that is, you know, and that has been a successful
Speaker 12: formula in the playoffs before, and it is certainly right now.
Speaker 2: So is somebody that had a front row seed to
Speaker 2: the room go bear experience.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm a Rudy guy.
Speaker 2: I appreciated everything he did here, and you know, I
Speaker 2: don't think he'll ever get all the credit he deserved
Speaker 2: for the way he conducted himself when I think his teammate,
Speaker 2: more often than not, was the guy throwing him.
Speaker 1: Under the bus.
Speaker 2: Now, Rudy was not innocent of everything, But I'll tell
Speaker 2: you what, Andy Oklahoma City is so intentional about putting
Speaker 2: him in switches, and it's Shane, it's Jalen specifically. But
Speaker 2: what's interesting is they're feasting in the mid range. It's
Speaker 2: not like, let's get him out behind the three point line.
Speaker 2: Rudy wants to plan and drop. We know this, But
Speaker 2: what is fair to say about what happens when Rudy
Speaker 2: is putting those positions where other teams do seem to
Speaker 2: find a lot of success by getting him out on
Speaker 2: switches on perimeter players.
Speaker 12: Yeah, look, it's not about getting switches and putting him
Speaker 12: on the perimeter against ISO and going one on one
Speaker 12: right like that is actually a pretty big, bad mass
Speaker 12: move when you look at it over the aggregate, like
Speaker 12: he's actually pretty good at staying in front, and you
Speaker 12: waked a lot of shot clock in the dribbling and
Speaker 12: you know, like the backing it out and all that
Speaker 12: kind of stuff. I think what Bignell and the Thunder
Speaker 12: have done really well at is you attack him in
Speaker 12: the pick and roll, go drop, and then snake the
Speaker 12: defender so that it is just you and Rudy now
Speaker 12: from fifteen feet away while the ball handlers on the move,
Speaker 12: rather than from twenty five feet away outside the three
Speaker 12: point line, kind of holding onto it. And I think
Speaker 12: that's where Rudy can kind of get in between a
Speaker 12: little bit, where he's you know, thinking about rim protection
Speaker 12: first but ends up giving up the twelve to fifteen
Speaker 12: foot mid range floater kind of stuff that I think
Speaker 12: Sga and Jalen Williams are really good at. That has
Speaker 12: always been a little bit of a problem for him,
Speaker 12: if I'm honest, you know, like that is a lot
Speaker 12: of what we saw in the Rocket series when the
Speaker 12: Jazz played him, for example, when Westbrook was making his jumper,
Speaker 12: it was a little bit of a problem.
Speaker 8: In the Thunder series, it is.
Speaker 12: I would also say that I do think and have
Speaker 12: thought this for a couple of years that Rudy is
Speaker 12: not quite the defender that he was in his utof
Speaker 12: Rian like he is at that age where it makes
Speaker 12: sense that he has lost the step. And I think
Speaker 12: he has lost the step and it's not a huge step.
Speaker 12: And you know, I think he makes them a well,
Speaker 12: it makes him a second team All defense guy rather
Speaker 12: than a first team All defense guy. And I think,
Speaker 12: you know, we're seeing a little bit of that where
Speaker 12: the margins are pretty fine and the Thunder taking advantage
Speaker 12: of them.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move over to some Jazz stuff.
Speaker 2: Since you and I last spoke, the All Rookie teams
Speaker 2: were released, and the Jazz are not in the mix
Speaker 2: and have not been in the mix for very many
Speaker 2: postseason honors. That's what happens when you're unseious about winning
Speaker 2: and you don't have a lot of good basketball players
Speaker 2: and your basketball team but holding out hope for maybe
Speaker 2: Isaiah or Kyle to potentially grabs. I don't think either
Speaker 2: of them we're going to be first team. Wasn't a
Speaker 2: great rookie class, you know, the Reshache kid, the number
Speaker 2: one overall pick, Stefan Castle Rookie of the Year are you
Speaker 2: surprised that neither Cody nor Kyle uh finished on the
Speaker 2: at least the second team All NBA Rookie.
Speaker 12: No, because neither You know, first of all, a lot
Speaker 12: of voters are just gonna look at the win loss
Speaker 12: record and be like, you know, why am I voting
Speaker 12: for a jasmin. Second, a lot of voters are going
Speaker 12: to look at the points totals and say, why am
Speaker 12: I voting for these guys?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 12: And you know, kind of the interesting thing about Isaiah
Speaker 12: was his assist number. The interesting things about Kyle Philipasky
Speaker 12: was his efficiency in shooting and scoring the ball. But
Speaker 12: wasn't like the number of points they put up, whereas
Speaker 12: if like either of them had put up you know,
Speaker 12: thirteen points a game or something, I think there's a
Speaker 12: realistic shot there are second team or first team. But
Speaker 12: you know, they weren't able to didn't have that chance.
Speaker 12: And you know, frankly, maybe probably weren't that good in
Speaker 12: their rookie years, right, So look, I would have had
Speaker 12: probably both of them over Bob Carrington. I did in
Speaker 12: my vote, but I don't think and as well, he's
Speaker 12: missed me from New Orleans. I don't think I had
Speaker 12: him on my second team either. But I don't think
Speaker 12: that the grand miscarriage of justice. You know, Isaiah call
Speaker 12: Your missed out on the second team by one point
Speaker 12: compared to Bob Carrington. I thought Collier, when you take
Speaker 12: into account the passing over the second half of the year,
Speaker 12: did have a better season overall than Carrington. But again,
Speaker 12: like it's hard to get two up in arms when
Speaker 12: you're talking about spot eleven versus tenth in a ROS
Speaker 12: rookie class on a team that doesn't, you know, on
Speaker 12: two teams that didn't win anything, right, It's just it's
Speaker 12: hard to know who is right in that scenario. I
Speaker 12: will say, like the Jazz and Jazz management were very
Speaker 12: happy that Bob Carrington made the game winning shot in
Speaker 12: Game eighty two. It didn't end up mattering, but like
Speaker 12: that made a the Jazz management happen. So there were
Speaker 12: some jokes about voting Bob Carrington Rookie of the Year
Speaker 12: made to me, But look like it's again, no grand
Speaker 12: miscarriage of justice.
Speaker 6: This is fine.
Speaker 12: Those guys were about the eleventh and twelfth best rookies
Speaker 12: in the class. That's where they ended up. It's good
Speaker 12: that they got the eleventh and twelfth best rookies in
Speaker 12: the class with picks number twenty eight and number thirty two.
Speaker 2: You are about one month and change, almost exactly one
Speaker 2: month away from the NBA Draft. I think everybody's moved
Speaker 2: on from the disappointment that the Jazz are at five,
Speaker 2: even though mathematically that was one of the more likely
Speaker 2: spots in the fall. Give us some intel. What are
Speaker 2: you hearing? You know, you hear all this stuff. They're
Speaker 2: going to be bullish and try to move up. Maybe
Speaker 2: san Antonio looks at moving too, because there's some redundancy
Speaker 2: although reports, are they going to keep it in draft
Speaker 2: Dylan Harper and let them grow alongside Stefon Castle and
Speaker 2: learn from Daron Fox.
Speaker 1: Maybe Philly's in play at three.
Speaker 2: That's a complicated transaction based off of what it would
Speaker 2: take to get three. If it's Paul Georgian return, does
Speaker 2: that make sense? Are you willing to move on from Larry?
Speaker 1: What? What are you hearing prior to draft night? A
Speaker 1: month away?
Speaker 9: What?
Speaker 1: Give us some intel? Andy?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 12: Look, I mean they are open to everything, right. I
Speaker 12: would also say that those conversations don't ramp up now, right,
Speaker 12: Like it's still a month and more than a month
Speaker 12: until the NBA Draft. You know, they're working on scheduling
Speaker 12: those prospects to get in that. It does sound like
Speaker 12: they are going to be successful in meeting with or
Speaker 12: working out all of those guys in that range. So
Speaker 12: I think that's notable, you know, besides probably the top two.
Speaker 12: But look, it's you know, I think they've also signaled
Speaker 12: probably that this is not They're not going to be
Speaker 12: giving up the farm to move from number five to
Speaker 12: number three, right, Like, I don't think that they They
Speaker 12: see those players in kind of the same tier. And
Speaker 12: so yes, maybe you give up something, you know, if
Speaker 12: Philadelphia wants to compete next year and is interested in
Speaker 12: the column Sexton, sure, you know, Like I think that's
Speaker 12: something that would be a good use of an expiring
Speaker 12: calm secton and I think obviously the Jazz would be
Speaker 12: willing to do that as well. But like in terms
Speaker 12: of visit worth a lowry marketing, yeah, probably not. And
Speaker 12: so you have that conversation. But I also think that,
Speaker 12: you know, they the plan scene still seems to be
Speaker 12: the long right, Like that is as much as there
Speaker 12: was a lot of handging, and I think reasonably so.
Speaker 12: When the picks fell to number five about the tanking
Speaker 12: and the long term plan not working out. I don't
Speaker 12: see a huge shift coming in terms of like them
Speaker 12: all of a sudden going out and getting some of
Speaker 12: the players on the trade market. So that's what I
Speaker 12: continue to hear again. You know, look, there aren't those
Speaker 12: conversations right now for the most part. They're all like
Speaker 12: little kind of hey, you know, isn't it interesting san
Speaker 12: Antonio got the number two pick kind of conversations with
Speaker 12: league exacts, like everyone's just kind of talking generally about
Speaker 12: the league to each other. No, I'm talking in specifics
Speaker 12: right now. And so I think that's that's where the
Speaker 12: Jazz stand right now.
Speaker 2: As you've been able to dig in to study, watch,
Speaker 2: learn about the prospects and understand the landscape ahead of
Speaker 2: the Jazz who are drafted at five, have you landed
Speaker 2: on who you perceived to be the best case scenario
Speaker 2: available at five and who the Jazz should walk away
Speaker 2: from for fans learning about names, Who's best case at
Speaker 2: five in your opinion?
Speaker 12: Andy, That's a good question, and I honestly want to
Speaker 12: do more work on it. And I know that's a
Speaker 12: cop out answer, but I'm working on building a stat
Speaker 12: model right now, going back to Andy Analytics mass days.
Speaker 12: So I want to wait until I finish that before
Speaker 12: I like, really, you know, stake my name, because let
Speaker 12: me be honest, what happened last year is I thought
Speaker 12: Cody Williams was a really good ticket number ten.
Speaker 6: I thought he was.
Speaker 12: It was a good selection that he fell to number ten,
Speaker 12: and I thought it was the best outcome for the
Speaker 12: Jazz And that made me look really, really dumb, and
Speaker 12: it may look really some too, frankly like, and look,
Speaker 12: there's still a chance Tody Williams, you know, six season
Speaker 12: his NBA career, but look, when he had as bad
Speaker 12: of a rookie season as he did, the odds are
Speaker 12: short and you would not have drafted him number ten
Speaker 12: if you were to redraft last year's draft again. So
Speaker 12: I want to approach this draft number five, more important drafts,
Speaker 12: better draft, with the little little bit more rigorous miss
Speaker 12: than I did last year because it sent me astray.
Speaker 12: And so yeah, I don't know. You know, there are
Speaker 12: a lot of good names, and I'm sure you talk
Speaker 12: about them on the show, but I'm trying to figure
Speaker 12: it out. Like my sense is, I don't love Ace Bailey.
Speaker 12: I don't love that archetype of player. I would be
Speaker 12: more in favor of a Trey Johnson R VJED film
Speaker 12: or a Conkine ple But like I again, have to
Speaker 12: know more than just vibes at this point because I
Speaker 12: did such a bad job Blackcraft.
Speaker 2: When you say you're sure I talk about these prospects
Speaker 2: on the show, is that an admission that you're not
Speaker 2: tuned in every day two to six Live.
Speaker 12: You know, I just missed that last half hour, that's all.
Speaker 12: When I'm sure you're talking about them all the time. No,
Speaker 12: I'm busy learning.
Speaker 2: The news, you know, and there's a lot there's a
Speaker 2: lot of news out there. One thing that you and
Speaker 2: I haven't discussed Walker Kessler extension eligible coming up.
Speaker 1: How do you think this plays out?
Speaker 12: Yeah, really good question.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 12: I think ultimately most likely is that the two sides
Speaker 12: kind of come to a deal, like in that twenty
Speaker 12: five million dollar a year range, you know, plus minus
Speaker 12: five a year, which is where you know the league
Speaker 12: is kind of extended. Guys in that platte, you know,
Speaker 12: so like the Spurs with Kelvin Johnson or Devin Vessel
Speaker 12: or you know, like kind of good players who you
Speaker 12: know can play roles on great teams, probably sub all
Speaker 12: star potential, but guys who want to keep around are
Speaker 12: kind of in that range, and I think that's where
Speaker 12: Walker likely finds himselves. But yeah, you know, they can't
Speaker 12: really do that until later on in the summer, until September,
Speaker 12: and that's you know, when you should expect that to happen.
Speaker 12: That being said, you know, I also think it really
Speaker 12: really matters what else you're doing around the team, And
Speaker 12: you know, like if you draft Metalwaks, who I don't
Speaker 12: think you should, but at number five, then all of
Speaker 12: a sudden, maybe you're thinking about Walker Kessler in a
Speaker 12: different way. So we'll see, but I think generally like
Speaker 12: there was one of the things, one of frankly the
Speaker 12: only good things that came out of last season was
Speaker 12: that Walker clearly made himself into a figure, into a
Speaker 12: player that you want to have on the roster moving forward.
Speaker 12: And given that the Jazz have kind of not a
Speaker 12: full out else going for them right now in terms
Speaker 12: of young, really talented talent, and then the fact that
Speaker 12: you also have to get to the salary floor, it
Speaker 12: just does make sense to give Walker an extension.
Speaker 2: Do you think based off of what has now transpired,
Speaker 2: not just with this draft cycle, but every draft lottery
Speaker 2: since twenty nineteen. The Jazz will put their best foot
Speaker 2: forward this year. No inventing injuries, about marketing, no cittying
Speaker 2: veteran players, no telling Walker Keshler you are Ray Allen
Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety eight. Now, do you think we might
Speaker 2: have a serious approach to competing based off of how
Speaker 2: everything played out last year?
Speaker 12: I'm skeptical because, if anything, there's more incentive to tank,
Speaker 12: not less, you know, Like as much as Cooper Flagg
Speaker 12: was a prize and I truly think he's a very
Speaker 12: excellent prospect, like one of the be one of the
Speaker 12: better number one picks in the last ten years. Like
Speaker 12: I think at the top of this draft there are
Speaker 12: even more good dudes who you might be even more
Speaker 12: sure on, right, Like I feel really confident on Age Debaansa,
Speaker 12: and I feel really confident on Darren Peterson, and I
Speaker 12: feel maybe even most confident on Cameron Boozer, like his
Speaker 12: floor is so high, so all of a sudden, now
Speaker 12: you have even more incentive to try to get a
Speaker 12: top three pick, not just one pick, not just a
Speaker 12: fourteen percent chance, but a forty two percent chance at
Speaker 12: one of those three three franchise changing guys plus a
Speaker 12: number of guys blew them Like. I don't think that
Speaker 12: the incentives have actually changed all that much other than
Speaker 12: public pressure, like you know, fan ticket price, you know,
Speaker 12: ticket interest goes down, people get more mad at Ryan Smith,
Speaker 12: et cetera. He's been pretty uh, he's been pretty hard
Speaker 12: to you know, stone face to that. So to this point,
Speaker 12: I don't know if that changes necessarily. I think they
Speaker 12: probably just continue to go down the spat.
Speaker 2: So Windhorst and McMahon and bontevs. Last week did a
Speaker 2: pod on The Hoop Collective about the era of parody
Speaker 2: in the NBA, and we had Bobby Marks on the show.
Speaker 2: I think it was Monday of this week, and Bobby
Speaker 2: did just a masterful job of kind of walking us
Speaker 2: through why we are smack dab in the middle of
Speaker 2: a great time in the NBA if you are a
Speaker 2: fan of a basketball team that plays its basketball in
Speaker 2: a city like Salt Lake. And as a result of
Speaker 2: those conversations, I did like an entire segment to open
Speaker 2: the show about how you know, with the new CBA
Speaker 2: and billionaires clearly scared of the second apron if you
Speaker 2: always wondered what the answer to the question what scares
Speaker 2: billionaires is and pro sports? In the NBA, it's a
Speaker 2: tax bill like Boston's gonna have a five hundred million
Speaker 2: dollars just for the right to have the team that
Speaker 2: will not have Jason Tatum next year and lost in
Speaker 2: the second round. The new CBA expires in twenty thirty,
Speaker 2: and there's already a significant amount of pushback to what
Speaker 2: it's done in pro basketball to not allow teams to
Speaker 2: keep their great teams together based off of punitive economic penalties.
Speaker 2: And you said out a tweet that said, it's disappointing
Speaker 2: the Jazz are missing out on the NBA's parody era.
Speaker 2: It is unfortunate that the Jazz are not in a
Speaker 2: better spot to capitalize on this landscape that's allowed teams
Speaker 2: in Oklahoma City, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Denver, Minnesota to build really
Speaker 2: good teams. What's your take on it? What are your
Speaker 2: thoughts on it? Expand on the tweet that you sent.
Speaker 12: Yeah, look, I mean it's hard because I don't know
Speaker 12: that it's their fault and I don't think like the
Speaker 12: Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, Jazz is that interesting in this
Speaker 12: era eier. Like, I think ultimately the economics of that team,
Speaker 12: just with the Cats and the way that they had
Speaker 12: traded and misused some of their picks like meant that
Speaker 12: they weren't going to compete either. But you know, in
Speaker 12: the course of Jazz history, there's a couple of famous
Speaker 12: times when the Jazz had very good teams and came
Speaker 12: up against greatness and losht and and that's just how
Speaker 12: that happens, right Like, But if the stock in them
Speaker 12: and the Lone Jazz are in the twenty twenty five
Speaker 12: NBA Finals or in NBA playoffs, like.
Speaker 8: I think they win the thing. I think I think they.
Speaker 6: Win the title.
Speaker 12: And so from a Utah perspective and a Jazz time perspective,
Speaker 12: it is disappointing that like the cycle of success and
Speaker 12: failure has lined up this way so that in an
Speaker 12: era where there's more parody than ever, the Jazz are
Speaker 12: at their lowest point in franchise history. Now, Like, do
Speaker 12: I expect that to continue? I kind of do. Actually,
Speaker 12: I think this current setup allows owners to sell their team.
Speaker 12: Their fan base is hope a little bit.
Speaker 8: I do think.
Speaker 12: Overall, the Warriors dynasty was probably actually bad for the league.
Speaker 12: I think there are some tweaks they can make about
Speaker 12: keeping their own teams, keeping their own players, and you know,
Speaker 12: whether that's a franchise tag or a lesson salary cap
Speaker 12: impact or something like that. But ultimately you also look
Speaker 12: at the TV deal and everyone's making too much money
Speaker 12: to change. And I think that's one thing we learned
Speaker 12: in the last go around is like, hey, if everyone's
Speaker 12: making hundreds of millions of dollars here, the incentive to
Speaker 12: change a ton is not going to be there. So
Speaker 12: I think ultimately there's not going to be a ton
Speaker 12: of support for changing drastically the way that the NBA operates.
Speaker 12: And then so it becomes, you know, can the Jazz
Speaker 12: take advantage with their own era at some point you know,
Speaker 12: let's be honest, three, four or five years down the road,
Speaker 12: And that is to be determined by the draft picks
Speaker 12: they make and whether they get luckery on lottery night,
Speaker 12: and like whether or not you know, Lowry continues in
Speaker 12: all start kind of status or it falls off a bit,
Speaker 12: and whether or not you know, Isaiah call you is
Speaker 12: a starting point guard or a backup point guard or
Speaker 12: not an NBA player, like all this is still super influx,
Speaker 12: but I you know, That's all I was trying to
Speaker 12: say is just like, hey, the fine waves have just
Speaker 12: lined up in the exact opposite way from the way
Speaker 12: you would want them to if you were a jazz fan.
Speaker 2: All right, Andy, we got to do it before I
Speaker 2: say you lose. If you believe, then you'll just stand
Speaker 2: up on your feet and you'll shout it out loud.
Speaker 1: The problem is, goals are fun.
Speaker 2: Two hundred and fifty minutes, I think now between goals
Speaker 2: for our cell win, listen for.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 2: We established earlier that you listened every minute of the
Speaker 2: show live, so I don't have to rehash what Pablo
Speaker 2: said this week, but just in case you may have
Speaker 2: missed that small portion. Pablo and then Kurt the next day,
Speaker 2: they both said that they have been informed by new
Speaker 2: ownership that they are not interested in selling players. They're
Speaker 2: not interested in selling Diego Luno. They're not interested in
Speaker 2: selling young players who are playing well for the club. Now,
Speaker 2: if a team in La Liga or whatever calls RSL
Speaker 2: and says thirty million for Diego, you probably do it,
Speaker 2: and I understand why.
Speaker 1: But that was kind of new.
Speaker 2: That was positive news to ascertain from I mean, I
Speaker 2: will have to see, because at this point, the bottom
Speaker 2: line is they just badly need economic confusion. And Pablo
Speaker 2: said he thinks they're two attacking players away from being
Speaker 2: really good.
Speaker 1: Kurt essentially cooperated that as well.
Speaker 2: So while the present certainly appears to be bleak and
Speaker 2: as you point out on your Twitter page, not a
Speaker 2: lot to hope for right now, I just wondered what
Speaker 2: you make of that piece of information that the Millers
Speaker 2: seemed to be maybe moving away from the ethos of
Speaker 2: developing and selling players and maybe we'll have good young
Speaker 2: players stay here for a long time, which is what
Speaker 2: you need to do to build a winning team.
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's so interesting because you know then Pablo reportedly,
Speaker 12: at least according to the Apple TV broadcast, said the opposite,
Speaker 12: that he feels Diego Luna would like real.
Speaker 1: Quick, real quick, real quick, real quick.
Speaker 2: Not to interrupt you, but I asked Pablo that very question,
Speaker 2: and I was glad I did, because he did not
Speaker 2: say that it was taken out of context, so the
Speaker 2: context was based off of how well he's played. He
Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of offers
Speaker 2: this summer.
Speaker 12: Okay, well, look, and you know that maybe the case,
Speaker 12: and I do think like keeping Diego Luna is number one,
Speaker 12: you know, important thing to do if you want a
Speaker 12: successful RSL. You know, I think to some degree also
Speaker 12: depends on Diego Luna whether or not he wants to
Speaker 12: spend his entire career in an RSL uniform or not,
Speaker 12: based on the quality of the team or whether he
Speaker 12: thinks you can go accomplished bigger things in Europe, you know,
Speaker 12: like for a lot of soccer players understandably, so it's
Speaker 12: their dream to be on like Champions League stages and
Speaker 12: not US Open Cup stages, and so yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 12: But like regardless that it is great to hear that
Speaker 12: it is good to hear that they want to keep
Speaker 12: young players in And then, you know, so with the
Speaker 12: model RFL has chosen, which is the two designated player
Speaker 12: for under twenty two slot model, that means you've got
Speaker 12: two kind of older talismanic guys who have to set
Speaker 12: the the caliber of the team, and then you have
Speaker 12: four twenty two year old Ish guys who are on
Speaker 12: their you know, up and coming trajectory who can also
Speaker 12: help that you can spend unlimited to uncapped money on
Speaker 12: that's the MLS rule. Diego Luna is one of your
Speaker 12: under twenty two guys, Brian o'hade is clearly one of
Speaker 12: your under twenty two guys. Then you need to do
Speaker 12: better with like the Nelson Plasio spot, right like, but
Speaker 12: nevertheless that can be done. Tom k mark us another
Speaker 12: under twenty two guys. Then uh, you just need to
Speaker 12: be way, way way better on the designated players scale,
Speaker 12: right like, I think it's started to call Giago Gonsalvez
Speaker 12: a failure at this point, and he's your only designated player.
Speaker 12: You've left that second slot open. So look, I mean,
Speaker 12: given how long the Miller deal was in the works,
Speaker 12: right like, they first had those conversations in November, they did,
Speaker 12: to some extent have the leeway to say, hey, this
Speaker 12: is how we'd like to see the club change when
Speaker 12: we're in charge. Now, maybe they didn't have they didn't
Speaker 12: feel good about it, whatever, But the disappointing week after
Speaker 12: the Millers finalized the PaperWorks, they did the press conference
Speaker 12: and then only signs Willia Gatta like is you know,
Speaker 12: leaves need to be more pessimistic than optimistic. Also, maybe
Speaker 12: the fact that I'm a skeptic, but like in the end,
Speaker 12: I would love to see a Miller organization really invest
Speaker 12: into the team because the team desperately needs it, and
Speaker 12: you are letting down players the likes of Diego Luna,
Speaker 12: Raphael Cabral and Mechaanelli, et cetera, because they you, you know,
Speaker 12: the team does not lack talent necessarily, it's just so
Speaker 12: bleaku on the offensive side of things that it's holding
Speaker 12: everyone else back.
Speaker 2: All right, Andy, good stuff today, man, appreciate the time,
Speaker 2: have a great weekend, and.
Speaker 1: We'll catch up soon.
Speaker 8: Sounds good.
Speaker 1: Thanks then, Andy Larson.
Speaker 2: Salt Lake Tribune covers the Jazz a bunch of other
Speaker 2: things as well. At Andy B. Larson is where you
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Speaker 2: get that roof replaced before the weather gets wicked womb.
Speaker 2: That was my Karl Anthony Towns New York accent.
Speaker 6: Nice.
Speaker 2: Have you looked at the tweet I sent you? He
Speaker 2: suddenly has adopted a New York accent.
Speaker 3: I did see that.
Speaker 4: Hey, you know he's been there for a while. Uh
Speaker 4: but yeah, like you, it wasn't there before.
Speaker 2: Eight o one six one five five six zero from
Speaker 2: all my brothers in New York, New York at Rookie Park.
Speaker 2: What I've been listening to you interview since you're eighteen?
Speaker 2: You've never had that accent before? Eight oh one six
Speaker 2: one five five five six zero eight oh one six
Speaker 2: one five five five six zero Online at Cortland roofine
Speaker 2: dot com. By the way, new cool thing on the station.
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Speaker 2: home with a great deal. All right, I am going
Speaker 2: to choose to approach tonight with glass at full. I
Speaker 2: think Howard Beck did a good job of articulating, and
Speaker 2: I really do think this comes from Jalen more than
Speaker 2: anything else. There's just this like measured approach to the kid,
Speaker 2: and they're always has been all the way back in
Speaker 2: college when he was at Nova and then of course
Speaker 2: with the MAVs. The MAVs at one point at Rick
Speaker 2: Carlile's Rick carl was their coach and their back court
Speaker 2: was Jalen, Brunts and Luka Doncicch. Think about that for
Speaker 2: a second. I do think the next win. No part
Speaker 2: of me thinks it's gonna be comfortable. I have a
Speaker 2: tremendous respect for Rick and this Indiana Pacers team. Although
Speaker 2: I hate them, Yes, I cannot stand them. It's the
Speaker 2: heat and the Pacers to me that I just oh
Speaker 2: and the Rockets.
Speaker 1: I learned that this year.
Speaker 2: Your level of confidence tonight before we say good night
Speaker 2: about the Nicks being able to even up the series.
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 4: I'm pretty confident about their ability to even up the
Speaker 4: series tonight. I am you know, like you said, it's
Speaker 4: a group led by Jalen Brunson who seems to have
Speaker 4: a good, great, good resolve. You know, it doesn't seem
Speaker 4: like they're a crew that's gonna let the wheels fall off.
Speaker 4: A bunch of these guys have a national championship. I
Speaker 4: know that's at the college level, but it is still
Speaker 4: championship experience. I think they adjust. I think they bounce back.
Speaker 4: I think they get Game two Spence, but I thought
Speaker 4: they'd get Game one. And if they lose tonight, they
Speaker 4: lose tonight and you go too and you lose the
Speaker 4: way you.
Speaker 3: Did an MSG. I think the series is over.
Speaker 4: I know, I know you don't say that after two games,
Speaker 4: but I said it after the Boston series because the
Speaker 4: way you lose does matter. And yeah, big game, Big
Speaker 4: Game two. If if there's you know, a time to
Speaker 4: put too much stock into one of them, this is
Speaker 4: the one.
Speaker 7: I know.
Speaker 4: I'm a Knicks fan. I know it's you know, maybe
Speaker 4: showing there, but I think tonight in many ways, may
Speaker 4: decide the series.
Speaker 2: Knicks are oh and fourteen in franchise history. When they
Speaker 2: trail O two, they have never lost two games at
Speaker 2: home to start a playoff series, so historic in a
Speaker 2: lot of ways, and I agree if they don't get
Speaker 2: it tonight, it's curtains all right. We have a long weekend,
Speaker 2: which is very nice. I hope you guys have the
Speaker 2: same order. We are off Monday. What comes our way
Speaker 2: when we're back on a Tuesday show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, since we have Monday off, we'll double up on
Speaker 4: the NBA Daily assist Tom Haberstrow and Tim McMahon On
Speaker 4: a Tuesday afternoon, we'll chat with Rafael Barlow on some
Speaker 4: NBA draft who wasn't able to join us earlier this week.
Speaker 4: And then to wrap it all up, hopefully a better
Speaker 4: showing from our guys from RSL and we'll have a
Speaker 4: little recap of their weekend as well.
Speaker 1: How about a goal, just one, just a goal, baby steps.
Speaker 3: I'm good with that.
Speaker 1: I'll goal against Vancouver.
Speaker 3: Tomorrow, maybe a point two, maybe.
Speaker 1: A point, Yeah, that would be nice, but baby steps
Speaker 1: a goal first. Then we'll see.
Speaker 2: I got to take advantage of Diego before he takes
Speaker 2: off for the US men's National Seam Gold Cup duty.
Speaker 2: We'll say good night, special thank you to Howard Beck,
Speaker 2: Zach Harper, Paul Pugmyer, Mike Yam and Andy Larson Fun
Speaker 2: Show Today. If you missed any of it, the website
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Speaker 2: And finally, for what we do specifically in our space
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Speaker 2: good news, it's up for your consumption. On our podcast page.
Speaker 2: You can listen to whatever part of it you want
Speaker 2: to on your time. It is called The Drive with Spence.
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Speaker 2: all the stars. You will be eternally blessed reporter. I'm
Speaker 2: Spence Sega and I have a great long weekend. Gang,
Speaker 2: begid to yourself, begoind to each other. We'll talk to
Speaker 2: you on a Tuesday edition of the Drive and as
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