Speaker 1: Two men, two familiar places, two routine outings that should
Speaker 1: have ended like any other, but didn't. One would be
Speaker 1: found days later, his life, ending in a place he
Speaker 1: knew well, while the other would vanish without a trace,
Speaker 1: leaving behind only questions that still haven't been answered three
Speaker 1: decades later. Today we're heading into the forests of Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: where rugged terrain, quiet trails, and a single misstep can
Speaker 1: change everything. I'm Megan, I'm Danielle, and this is off
Speaker 1: the trails. So we do have some new patreons that
Speaker 1: we would like to welcome. That is, they are Kathy, Liz, Timothy, Justine, Mallory,
Speaker 1: Meg and jac Welcome and thank you.
Speaker 2: You've got the new one from yesterday. Good job I did.
Speaker 1: I'm on it it. You know, may slipped a little,
Speaker 1: but we're back in action.
Speaker 2: So that's right, A new month knew us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think I hopefully hopefully a better rest
Speaker 1: that awars us. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like because because different or new could go either way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, better improved. I like that better. Yes, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think we have anything in particular to go over.
Speaker 1: We do have a virtual meetup coming up at the
Speaker 1: end of this month on Patreon for the backpacker tier.
Speaker 1: So if you are not on there and you would
Speaker 1: like to join, you know, just subscribe before June twenty
Speaker 1: fifth and you'll be able to join it. This week,
Speaker 1: we're going to be posting what the topics will be
Speaker 1: for that meetup, and that's all accessible to anybody who
Speaker 1: goes to the page, so you can see all the
Speaker 1: information before you decide to commit to anything. But we'd
Speaker 1: love to see you there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, our last one was really fun, so and I'm
Speaker 3: antisocial and I still enjoyed it, so please join.
Speaker 1: That is true. It is fun. It's fun to break
Speaker 1: the fourth wall and actually discuss cases and whatever. We
Speaker 1: had so many different like what are they called side quests, yes,
Speaker 1: for detours from the conversations, and it was a lot
Speaker 1: of fun talking to listeners and hearing their feedback in
Speaker 1: their opinions and stuff, and just getting to know them
Speaker 1: outside of just being a listener. So it was really cool.
Speaker 1: All right, well, outside of that.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: Let's go all right, have you been to Pennsylvania?
Speaker 3: Not for a really long time, And I was actually
Speaker 3: thinking when you did your intro if we have done
Speaker 3: any cases in Pennsylvania? The only thing I could think
Speaker 3: of in that split second was the boulder fields that
Speaker 3: I think we covered in the Singing Rocks.
Speaker 1: I was that in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I forget I think it was, But
Speaker 3: I don't know that we've covered anything else in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 3: I'm sure somebody's probably listening, They're like, yeah, episode eighty two.
Speaker 3: How do you guys forget that we forget what happened
Speaker 3: two days ago?
Speaker 1: Yes, we do. I think the only well we when
Speaker 1: we covered Jeff Hood and Molly LaRue, they were through
Speaker 1: hiking the at and but the setting of what took
Speaker 1: place was in Pennsylvania, but outside.
Speaker 2: Of Okay, okay, all right, so that is still one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, Pennsylvania is home to some of the most
Speaker 1: beautiful and underrated wilderness in the Eastern United States. It
Speaker 1: has dense forests, winding creeks, and dramatic elevation changes, and
Speaker 1: as pretty as those extremely tall mountains that the west has.
Speaker 1: I do love seeing like the rolling mountains of the
Speaker 1: Northeast region. They're two entirely different landscapes and they're just
Speaker 1: so pretty in their own rights. Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3: I do like being able to see like the Yeah,
Speaker 3: like you said, like the mountains, like behind the mountains.
Speaker 3: But if you have like just say, super big mountain
Speaker 3: in front of you, that's all you're seeing, which is
Speaker 3: which is not to say it's not great, but you
Speaker 3: know that's standing in front of everybody else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even see. I think it's very similar to
Speaker 1: the those types of mountains you see up in like
Speaker 1: upstate New York. It's just I wish while I lived
Speaker 1: up there, i ventured over there more. But you know,
Speaker 1: for people who are enjoying it, that's awesome. Keep enjoying it,
Speaker 1: keep enjoying it. So as peaceful as these places can be,
Speaker 1: they just like all the other outdoor areas we discuss,
Speaker 1: carry unpredictability. This terrain can be unforgiving. The conditions can
Speaker 1: shift quickly, and sometimes even people who know those areas
Speaker 1: well run into trouble that they never saw coming. And
Speaker 1: today's episode follows two separate cases. Both involve experienced individuals
Speaker 1: who ventured into Pennsylvania's outdoor landscapes alive and never made
Speaker 1: it out. So there wasn't and I know we've talked
Speaker 1: about this before, there wasn't a ton of coverage of
Speaker 1: these two cases, just like a couple news articles here
Speaker 1: and there. But regardless of their being sort of limited
Speaker 1: information on them, I know that we both still like
Speaker 1: to share them with people, so that because they don't
Speaker 1: get the same exposure as some of the other high
Speaker 1: profile cases that kind of gained traction beyond their local
Speaker 1: news and these two were just kind of on the
Speaker 1: quieter end of case coverage, but of course still wanted
Speaker 1: to share them. So our first story is about a
Speaker 1: man by the name of Michael Kenny who was fifty
Speaker 1: four years old living in in Northumberland County, Pennsylvania. He
Speaker 1: was active, experienced, and by all accounts comfortable in the outdoors,
Speaker 1: running and hiking.
Speaker 3: Nope, continue, I thought. I was like, wait, did I
Speaker 3: already cover this case? But once she said running, I
Speaker 3: was like, no, if he was not a runner, if
Speaker 3: you did, that would be just like the funniest thing.
Speaker 1: No, it looks like it's only okay.
Speaker 2: It was like a different Kenny.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I mean your last week's episode was Kenny Veach,
Speaker 1: but I know you're talking about probably a different name
Speaker 1: that sounds familiar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a hunter, but it might have been a Patreon one.
Speaker 3: But you know, either way, carry on. Once she said runner,
Speaker 3: I was like, nope, not the same story.
Speaker 1: Well, whenever I start writing about a case, I always
Speaker 1: searched the name in our drive and our show drive,
Speaker 1: just to make sure it doesn't come up in the
Speaker 1: search results for an episode that's already been covered. Because
Speaker 1: we are between our regular episodes and our Patreon episodes,
Speaker 1: we are like well over two hundred we're probably closer
Speaker 1: to like two hundred and fifty episodes. So that's a
Speaker 1: lot to try to remember what you've already covered and
Speaker 1: what you haven't.
Speaker 3: And that's my biggest one of my biggest fears that
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna like go all out on a case
Speaker 3: and then start telling it and then you're like, wait
Speaker 3: a minute, I covered this in length or even worse,
Speaker 3: you're gonna be like, you already covered this.
Speaker 1: But you know, if you unintentionally rerote it and like
Speaker 1: re researched it, maybe you come back with like with
Speaker 1: different perspectives or information that you hadn't found the first
Speaker 1: time around. So it could be a blessing, that's true,
Speaker 1: you know what You're right. So running and hiking we're
Speaker 1: part of his routine, and one of the places he
Speaker 1: returned to often was the Roaring Creek area of Wiser
Speaker 1: State Forest. So this state forest spans roughly twelve and
Speaker 1: a half square miles or thirty two square kilometers, spread
Speaker 1: across several counties, including Carbon Columbia, Dauphin Northumberland, and Scougle.
Speaker 1: The Roaring Creek Tract where Michael often ran sits just
Speaker 1: north of Mount Carmel and is shaped by two parallel
Speaker 1: mountain ridges. And you've mentioned this before, so I know
Speaker 1: you're going to appreciate the names Big Mountain to the
Speaker 1: south and Little Mountain to the north.
Speaker 2: I do love it. Simplicity at its best.
Speaker 1: So between those ridges runs the south branch of Roaring Creek,
Speaker 1: which begins near the eastern boundary of the tract and
Speaker 1: flows west for about ten miles or roughly sixteen kilometers,
Speaker 1: before cutting through Little Mountain at a narrow passage known
Speaker 1: as Bear Gap. On Wednesday, June eighteenth, twenty fourteenth, twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: Michael set out for what should have been a routine
Speaker 1: run in the Roaring Creek area, but when he didn't
Speaker 1: return home, his family reported him missing, and a search
Speaker 1: effort quickly kicked off. Searchers soon located his Toyota Sedan
Speaker 1: parked at the Route fifty four entrance to the forest,
Speaker 1: and the windows were down and the keys were still
Speaker 1: in the ignition. So that definitely stands out because I'm
Speaker 1: that's not typically how someone leaves their car, regardless if
Speaker 1: you're going somewhere that's more on, like, you know, the
Speaker 1: quieter side. Maybe it's a trailhead that you don't typically
Speaker 1: run into people at, but it's still a weird way
Speaker 1: to leave your car, especially in like a an area
Speaker 1: where there's place. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially the keys in the ignition.
Speaker 3: I think, depending on you know, whether entime of year,
Speaker 3: it's not super although it must be a little unusual
Speaker 3: because actually yesterday I was walking through the parking lot
Speaker 3: at work and someone had left their windows down and
Speaker 3: I noticed it and thought it was odd. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: I guess you're right, people don't typically leave their windows
Speaker 3: down they're leaving their vehicle. But definitely the he's in
Speaker 3: the ignition I think is unusual.
Speaker 1: Right, And is this something that he typically did you know,
Speaker 1: if if he regularly would go out to the woods
Speaker 1: to run or hike or you know, whatever he was doing,
Speaker 1: did he do this at the store, you know, does
Speaker 1: he do this when he goes into town? Like is
Speaker 1: this normal for him or was this like a rushed
Speaker 1: exit from the vehicle. Right, But outside of the windows
Speaker 1: being down and the keys in the ignition, there weren't
Speaker 1: any signs of like distress of that there were like
Speaker 1: a struggle in the vehicle or around the vehicle. So
Speaker 1: I also want to mention that a news article, like
Speaker 1: a local news article from the time that this case
Speaker 1: was developing, they had notated that the windows were down,
Speaker 1: but in the Strange Outdoors article they said the windows
Speaker 1: were up. So I went with what the local news
Speaker 1: coverage said because I feel like that's a detail that
Speaker 1: stands out more for publishing and for noting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, Reichs, as we just discussed,
Speaker 3: I think having the windows up would have been less noteworthy, right.
Speaker 1: I just picture like every time a vehicle is described
Speaker 1: and they're like and the hood was closed, It's like, what, right,
Speaker 1: think it would be?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: That's like the default position exactly. So search and rescue
Speaker 1: teams mobilized quickly, with more than sixty people involved. The
Speaker 1: rw Oh my god, the Roaring Creek tract was closed
Speaker 1: off to prevent contamination of any potential evidence, and teams
Speaker 1: began combing the area on foot, focusing heavily on the
Speaker 1: trails that Michael was known to use. Helicopters scanned from above,
Speaker 1: while search dogs were, of course, you know, trying to
Speaker 1: get any type of cent on the ground. At one point,
Speaker 1: officials even stop drivers along Route fifty four, handing out
Speaker 1: and asking if anyone had seen anything unusual. Nick Zoli
Speaker 1: of the Bureau of Forestry emphasized that because Michael was
Speaker 1: an avid runner and hiker, the search focused on the
Speaker 1: possibility that something had gone wrong along the trails. So
Speaker 1: I think they were just kind of working under the
Speaker 1: impression that he would not have strayed far from a trail,
Speaker 1: So it's they wouldn't expect to find him off trail
Speaker 1: somewhere right, which makes sense, But of course you never
Speaker 1: know what could drive someone off trail who typically stays
Speaker 1: on it. Unfortunately, though, the terrain made that incredibly difficult,
Speaker 1: even just looking like within close proximity of the trail.
Speaker 1: As Incident Management Team member Cecil Stelter explained, the area
Speaker 1: is extremely rugged. It's rocky, uneven, and even filled with hazards.
Speaker 1: Like old mine holes, ravines and sudden drop offs, like
Speaker 1: there's some old pieces of wood just covering like unstable ground.
Speaker 1: So it was potentially dangerous for all the searchers involved
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Especially those mystery mine chefts.
Speaker 1: That's a scary Those are so scary anytime they come
Speaker 1: up in a story like I distinctly recall us talking
Speaker 1: about them in the Michael Bryson case where he went
Speaker 1: missing up in Oregon from that campground during that party,
Speaker 1: and the area, like the forest surrounding that campground apparently
Speaker 1: just had a ton of old, overgrown mind shafts that
Speaker 1: you could just like fall into.
Speaker 2: Hate that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course what made this search difficult was
Speaker 1: lack a lack of clues. Despite how extensive it was,
Speaker 1: they just didn't find anything outside of his vehicle. But
Speaker 1: seven days after the search kicked off, on June twenty fourth,
Speaker 1: searchers made a discovery. A member of the Department of
Speaker 1: Conservation and Natural Resources found Michael's body in the Bear
Speaker 1: Gap Reservoir within the Roaring Creek Tract, Northumberland County. Corner
Speaker 1: James F. Kelly determined through preliminary autopsy results that Michael
Speaker 1: had likely drowned, and authorities stated that they did not
Speaker 1: suspect fowel play.
Speaker 3: So do you know, do you know the terrain around
Speaker 3: the reservoir is like does the trail run up above
Speaker 3: or is it pretty level that you wouldn't have fallen
Speaker 3: from so cliff essentially.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the when I was looking it up on
Speaker 1: all trails and I'm pulling it up again just to
Speaker 1: kind of put it fresh in my mind, this section
Speaker 1: does look relatively flat. You'd be near water, I can't tell.
Speaker 1: And these are literally just based off of images that
Speaker 1: like photos that people have posted on all trails just
Speaker 1: to try to get a sense of the trail he
Speaker 1: was on. And there may be some areas where there
Speaker 1: might be a steeper drop off, but the pictures that
Speaker 1: I'm seeing, the water's pretty close to the trail, like
Speaker 1: on flat ground. But if you're listening and you've been
Speaker 1: here and you can kind of visualize it better, then
Speaker 1: definitely let us know. So on paper, it was a
Speaker 1: tragic accident. It was just a routine run that seemingly
Speaker 1: ended with a fatal fall into the water. But even
Speaker 1: with an official and plausible conclusion, his death was still shocking,
Speaker 1: and I think you do have to sort of question
Speaker 1: like how did someone end up in the water that
Speaker 1: they were unable to rescue themselves from? So that also
Speaker 1: that begs the question, like that's how deep the water was,
Speaker 1: if there's a strong current there, if he was found
Speaker 1: by like the bank of the water, or is he
Speaker 1: trapped under like if there's a tree or rocks that
Speaker 1: he was potentially pinned under in the water. Did he
Speaker 1: suffer a medical event that incapacitated him in the water.
Speaker 1: Did he injure himself and end up in the water.
Speaker 1: There's so many like how did he end up there?
Speaker 1: And it reminds me of this story that you told
Speaker 1: about the woman who was on a walk or a run.
Speaker 1: I think she was on a walk in the UK,
Speaker 1: somewhere in Canada. It was Canada. I thought it was
Speaker 1: in the UK, And I think the.
Speaker 3: Woman that was on a walk, Oh no, wait, so
Speaker 3: that yes, there's a There are two stories that are
Speaker 3: kind of similar.
Speaker 2: One was the UK.
Speaker 3: One was Canada where these women were out for a walk.
Speaker 3: One was with a friend in the winter, the other
Speaker 3: was just out in the morning with her dog and
Speaker 3: they both ended up in the river.
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, because they found the dog and he was fine,
Speaker 1: and she had just gotten off like a zoom work
Speaker 1: call or something, and then she just somehow, it just
Speaker 1: like this, it feels very similar, ended up in the
Speaker 1: water somehow. So yeah, very puzzling. So in Michael's case,
Speaker 1: there was at least an answer, even if it didn't
Speaker 1: explain everything. You know, they were able to find him
Speaker 1: and recover him and at least get a little bit
Speaker 1: of closure for his family, even if they still don't
Speaker 1: know what those final moments included. But unfortunately, our second
Speaker 1: case doesn't have that same closure. So Michael Malinowski was
Speaker 1: thirty seven years old living in Yardley, Bucks County, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: He worked as a mental health counselor at the Greater
Speaker 1: Trenton Community Mental Health Center and was described as thoughtful, meticulous,
Speaker 1: and reliable. He lived a relatively quiet life. So when
Speaker 1: I read this next part, I was like, oh, so
Speaker 1: we're just describing Danielle. So it just says he lived
Speaker 1: a relatively quiet life. He was a vegetarian, he didn't
Speaker 1: use drugs, and he rarely drank.
Speaker 2: I mean, man, after my own heart right there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, seriously. At the time of his disappearance, he wasn't
Speaker 1: in a romantic relationship. He had divorced again.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 1: Yes, he had divorced about a year earlier after separating
Speaker 1: from his wife three years prior, and the couple shared
Speaker 1: a ten year old son named John, who lived with
Speaker 1: his ex wife. So you guys are very similar, we are.
Speaker 1: Despite the changes in his personal life, though, Michael appeared
Speaker 1: to be looking ahead, and he even had plans to
Speaker 1: eventually move west to be closer to his son. On
Speaker 1: October twenty fourth, nineteen ninety six, after attending a psychology
Speaker 1: seminar in Chester County, Michael drove roughly two hundred miles
Speaker 1: or about three hundred and twenty kilometers north to Tioga County,
Speaker 1: heading for Pine Creek Gorge. So this is actually often
Speaker 1: called the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania. It stretches for about
Speaker 1: forty seven miles or seventy six kilometers, carved deep into
Speaker 1: the Allegheny Plateau. It sits within roughly one hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty thousand acres or about six hundred and fifty square
Speaker 1: kilometers of Tioga State Forest. At its deepest point, the
Speaker 1: canyon reaches about one thousand, four hundred and fifty feet
Speaker 1: or four hundred and forty meters and in some areas
Speaker 1: it's more than eight hundred feet deep, with a rim
Speaker 1: to rim distance of around four thousand feet or about
Speaker 1: twelve hundred meters. Michael had checked into the Pine Tree
Speaker 1: Lodge in Gains at around four thirty pm for a
Speaker 1: planned two night stay. The lodge, which was built in
Speaker 1: the early nineteen thirties, sits overlooking Pine Creek and offers
Speaker 1: seclude cabin surrounded by wilderness the dream. That evening, he
Speaker 1: did call his roommate Greg Rossi to let him know
Speaker 1: that he had arrived safely, but it would be the
Speaker 1: last confirmed contact anyone would have with him. Three days later,
Speaker 1: on October twenty seventh, a Forestry Bureau worker found Michael's
Speaker 1: rented nineteen ninety five Nissan Sentra parked at the Barber
Speaker 1: Rock Access on the west rim of the Gorge. Inside
Speaker 1: the car were several personal items. An unzipped daypack with
Speaker 1: his cell phone inside. His jacket was on the passenger seat.
Speaker 1: He had a large water container with him that was
Speaker 1: about two thirds empty. There were apples, a box of
Speaker 1: cheese its, an empty camera case on the dashboard, and
Speaker 1: a pair of tan rubber soled boots. So I feel
Speaker 1: like all this stuff in the car is stuff that
Speaker 1: should have been with him.
Speaker 2: Well, certainly the day pack and the wa.
Speaker 1: And the jacket. I mean we are talking.
Speaker 2: I mean for sure the snacks. The snacks.
Speaker 1: Right like, and this is October, this is late October
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. I think you and I can easily assume
Speaker 1: what the weather was. And granted there are some of
Speaker 1: those random late fall days that are really nice out,
Speaker 1: but more often than not, you have that fall chill
Speaker 1: in the air. So hearing that his jacket was on
Speaker 1: the seat is concerning because though it may have been
Speaker 1: nice out when he got to the trailhead, there's a
Speaker 1: very good chance that that air started cooling down quick
Speaker 1: if he stayed out there anytime like past the afternoon.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean that time of year.
Speaker 3: Once once like two or three o'clock hits, so the
Speaker 3: sun starts to make its way out, the temperature drops quick.
Speaker 3: So I would think if you had a jacket in
Speaker 3: your vehicle, you probably would have taken it with you
Speaker 3: in that situation.
Speaker 1: Right, So, yeah, it appeared that all he had taken
Speaker 1: with him was that camera and left everything else behind
Speaker 1: in his car. The manager of the Pine Tree Lodge,
Speaker 1: reported him missing on October twenty eighth. Inside his cabin,
Speaker 1: everything was neat and orderly. The bed had been slept in,
Speaker 1: his belongings were carefully arranged, and it did appear that
Speaker 1: there was enough clothing there for the duration of his
Speaker 1: planned stay. Nothing seemed disturbed, so everything in the cabin
Speaker 1: seemed normal. Search efforts began quickly and grew into one
Speaker 1: of the most extensive operations the area had seen. Up
Speaker 1: to one hundred and twenty five firefighters and volunteers participated,
Speaker 1: along with trained search dogs, nine repelling teams, and three helicopters.
Speaker 1: For five days, crew searched from dawn until dusk, combing
Speaker 1: the canyon walls, trails, and surrounding forests. However, yet again,
Speaker 1: the extensive search offered no new leads, which just must
Speaker 1: be so fresh. Steve Ferrell, who is the superintendent of
Speaker 1: Colton Point State Park, described the emotional toll of the search,
Speaker 1: saying that each night he would go home unable to sleep,
Speaker 1: wondering what had been missed and whether Michael was still
Speaker 1: out there somewhere. Gaines Township Police Chief Mark Rescue expressed
Speaker 1: similar frustration, calling the case a puzzle where none of
Speaker 1: the pieces seem to fit.
Speaker 2: His last name is rescue.
Speaker 1: I put an I accidentally just put a C in there.
Speaker 1: It's not but it is it is rescue, or it's
Speaker 1: rescue without the sea. Okay.
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, Like, I think we've covered like
Speaker 3: a couple of cases where the detective or the police
Speaker 3: officer's name is like something that you're like, if you
Speaker 3: weren't in this line of work, like what were you
Speaker 3: doing and if your last name was rescue, I would
Speaker 3: say like, yeah, you have to be in be a
Speaker 3: first responder of some kind.
Speaker 1: But and it's funny because after I said it out loud,
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where like you're still talking,
Speaker 1: you're still carrying on with the sentence. But I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I just said that wrong. And then
Speaker 1: when you're like, wait, is his name rescue, And I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: it's not.
Speaker 2: It's actually not.
Speaker 1: I misled you. Sorry, whoops. Well you figure how many
Speaker 1: times we see the word rescue on our pages, So yeah,
Speaker 1: your brain just goes right to that. Yeah. So, despite
Speaker 1: the scale and thoroughness of the search, there was just
Speaker 1: no evidence to explain what happened, and of course, over time,
Speaker 1: as it so as it does, several theories emerged. One
Speaker 1: possibility is that Michael suffered a fatal accident, perhaps a
Speaker 1: fall from one of the canyon's steep edges or an
Speaker 1: injury that left on left him unable to seek help,
Speaker 1: but extensive searches of the area failed to locate any remains.
Speaker 1: Another theory is I don't like to share these ones loosely,
Speaker 1: but another theory is suicide. Though investigators found no indication
Speaker 1: that he was suicidal, friends and family described him as stable,
Speaker 1: and while his son reported to have mentioned mild depression
Speaker 1: later on, nothing suggested that he intended to take his
Speaker 1: own life. But his son was ten, you said, yeah,
Speaker 1: at the time, I don't know when his son later
Speaker 1: mentioned the mild depression but or how he would have
Speaker 1: picked up on that with his dad. But also, your
Speaker 1: son is very like intuitive and pretty observant. So and
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's eleven, he's ten, He's going to
Speaker 1: be eleven in September, right, yeah, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I was just thinking, I don't know, I
Speaker 3: don't know that a ten year old would, especially if
Speaker 3: he wasn't living with his father.
Speaker 1: Maybe he overheard his mom say something, maybe something came
Speaker 1: up in conversation, because I also can't imagine a ten
Speaker 1: year old using the phrasing mild depression, like maybe they
Speaker 1: if they're around someone a while, they could say they
Speaker 1: always seemed sad or they cried a lot, but not
Speaker 1: using clinical terms.
Speaker 2: Right, although my child probably would.
Speaker 3: He's been watching a lot of psychology videos, so he's
Speaker 3: been watching them on our Off the Trails podcast YouTube.
Speaker 3: So if you see all these like weird psychology things,
Speaker 3: that's my kid watching them.
Speaker 1: So see, he might have been able to h terminology like.
Speaker 3: That diagnose, diagnose someone. Perhaps there's also.
Speaker 1: The idea that he may have staged his own disappearance,
Speaker 1: but this theory is weakened by the fact that his
Speaker 1: credit cards and social Security number and there's really nothing
Speaker 1: of his or tied to his identity have been used
Speaker 1: since he went missing, and he did have plans to
Speaker 1: move closer to his son, it sounds like he had
Speaker 1: a good relationship with him since he was going to
Speaker 1: move across the country to be closer to him, and
Speaker 1: with that, I would also assume that he had a
Speaker 1: pretty you know, amicable relationship with his ex so you know,
Speaker 1: the staging a disappearance doesn't seem to fit him.
Speaker 2: No, doesn't.
Speaker 3: Also, if you're a divorced adult, you can you don't
Speaker 3: have to disappear.
Speaker 2: You can just choose to move, you can.
Speaker 3: Choose to cut contact with people if that's what you
Speaker 3: want to do for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: You don't have to create this mystery. Yeah, exactly. I
Speaker 1: mean we've talked about people who have gone and instead
Speaker 1: of doing like, instead of saying you can just divorce
Speaker 1: your wife, they're like, I'm actually going to pretend I'm
Speaker 1: going to fake my own death. So yeah, that's typically
Speaker 1: not the route that people take. Though. No foul play
Speaker 1: is often mentioned in these types of cases, but that's
Speaker 1: purely speculation when nothing is found to support that theory.
Speaker 1: And there's also a theory that he may have been
Speaker 1: accidentally shot by a hunter who and panicked and concealed
Speaker 1: the body. At the time, it was squirrel and grouse season,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't anything like big game hunting. But that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that people aren't doing that illegally. But like this,
Speaker 1: it's a bit far fetched and definitely lacks any evidence
Speaker 1: pointing to it.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize there was a season for squirrel hunting.
Speaker 1: I honestly didn't either, But yeah, I wonder how much
Speaker 1: of a demand there is for it. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's about I don't know, fifty fat squirrels
Speaker 3: in my yard all the time because they're come eating
Speaker 3: the snacks that I put out for the birds.
Speaker 1: But mm hm oh yeah, always, they're always out there
Speaker 1: on the bird feeders. So in the every explanation can't
Speaker 1: be entirely ruled out. But there's also no evidence to
Speaker 1: support any of them either. And both of these cases,
Speaker 1: though very different in outcome, do highlight the same underlying truth,
Speaker 1: which is that the outdoors don't need to be extreme
Speaker 1: conditions to become dangerous. And in both of these cases,
Speaker 1: I think it's an Okhams Razor scenario where it really
Speaker 1: did just come down to something as simple and devastating
Speaker 1: as a single misstep. Unfortunately, I do worry that. You know,
Speaker 1: we had Michael on one hand, who just went out
Speaker 1: for a run, so you wouldn't expect him to have
Speaker 1: a whole lot on his person, right, But well, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: they're both Michael.
Speaker 2: Michael number one.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yes, so Michael Kenny going out for his run
Speaker 1: and then Michael Melanowski, I worry how far he tried
Speaker 1: to venture with his camera to see those gorgeous views
Speaker 1: of the gorge, the mine Creete gorge. Yeah, leaving so
Speaker 1: many supplies in his car.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was unusual that you would have these items
Speaker 3: with you but not take them if it seemed like
Speaker 3: his intent was, you know, to go a good distance
Speaker 3: and get photos and things of that nature. So that
Speaker 3: doesn't that creates a lot of questions for me, because
Speaker 3: I agree in most of these situations it is most
Speaker 3: likely just a pure accident and they were just not found.
Speaker 3: But leaving the stuff in the car is kind of
Speaker 3: a tip off that I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 3: what it's tipping off, but it makes me questions what happened?
Speaker 1: Right? So, you know, are if you are heading out
Speaker 1: into remote or rugged terrain, even for something routine, it
Speaker 1: is worth taking a few extra precautions. Always let someone
Speaker 1: know where you're going and when you expect to return.
Speaker 1: Carry essentials like water, food, navigation tools, cold weather gear,
Speaker 1: and just a way to communicate if something does go wrong.
Speaker 1: And perhaps most importantly, which I think is highlighted in
Speaker 1: these cases, is not to say that they did anything wrong,
Speaker 1: but don't let familiarity lead to complacency. You know, Michael
Speaker 1: Kenny may have been used to this running route that
Speaker 1: he took, and even though he may have done all
Speaker 1: the right things, again, it just takes one one misstep, and.
Speaker 3: It's very easy to get complacent in a place you're comfortable, definitely,
Speaker 3: or a place that you don't even perceive as dangerous.
Speaker 1: So you could go on a trail that you've never
Speaker 1: been on, but you could say, well, this isn't a
Speaker 1: dangerous trail, so you're not as sort of vigilant on
Speaker 1: it as you would be if you were on a
Speaker 1: more just like knowingly challenging one.
Speaker 3: Right, So, I mean, I stand by the fact that
Speaker 3: I think some people don't have enough anxiety. I have
Speaker 3: more than plenty to share with people, but I think
Speaker 3: some people don't have enough.
Speaker 1: I agree, we are happy to share ours. Yes, So
Speaker 1: you know, one man went out for a run and
Speaker 1: never made it back, but at least in the end
Speaker 1: he was found. His remains were found, offering some closure
Speaker 1: for his loved ones. And the other stepped onto a
Speaker 1: trail and simply vanished, joining the many other people who
Speaker 1: have gone into the woods and never returned, So be
Speaker 1: careful out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: Just sorry, Just be careful. I mean, we're getting into
Speaker 1: summer where you're gonna have a lot more people out
Speaker 1: recreating and exploring and just yeah, just be extra mindful
Speaker 1: and you know, be extra prepared and make it home safely.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: All right, Well until next time.