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Speaker 1: Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep

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dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness,

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and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host,

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Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the

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world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists, and truth seekers to

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illuminate the path towards awakening. Here we ask questions that

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truly matter. Why are we here, where are we going?

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And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose, and

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our consciousness to the next level. This is a space

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for transformation, a space for expansion, a space to remember

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who you really are. So take a deep breath, open

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your mind, and prepare to step into your next level soul. Now.

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If you're ready to take your spiritual journey to the

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next level, explore Next Level Soul TV, our streaming platform

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your consciousness and live from your highest potential. Start your

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journey today at Next Levelsoul dot TV. The views opinions

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and statements expressed by our guests are their own and

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do not necessarily reflect the beliefs or positions of Next

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Level Soul, Its host, or any of the companies they represent.

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Now let's dive into today's episode. I like to welcome

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to the show doctor Martha. Joe Atkins, Hey to Martha.

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Speaker 2: That's great, Thank you so glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming. I'm you know, I

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had a few of you on the show before you

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are a death duela and a end of life counselor essentially,

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right are specialist. Ye, not something that everybody wants to

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talk about, but I'm fascinated with it because I have

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aiding parents, obviously, and I think everybody is.

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Speaker 2: We're all going, we're all going to get there.

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Speaker 1: Were as they always like to say, everyone wants to

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go to heaven, but just not right now basically. So

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it's something we're all going to have to deal with.

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But so many people, most people don't want to think

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about it because we're in this little world and our

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a little bubble, and we're going down this bullet train

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of a life, and you don't want to think where

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the track's going to end. And it's much more comforting

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not to think about it because I have work to do,

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I have things to do, I have things to do.

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But sometimes you really do kind of have to think

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about it, especially when you have parents, or especially when

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you have ailing parents, ailing friends, you know, you know,

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as we get older, you know, I remember when I

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was younger, I didn't have anyone die in my life

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until I was in my late twenties. I was very

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blessed that way. Yeah, you know, I have other family

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members who parents died early on things like that. Can

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I ask who was it was my grandfather or my grandmother.

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My grandmother died first, then my grand father died seven

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six months later, seven months later, then my other grandmother died,

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and then my early grandfather died like after a year

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after I was born. So that was it. And I

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still have both my parents, but they're older, you know,

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and they're still good rock and roll, still hold them

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the good fight. But but then I started having friends die. Yeah,

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that's that's when it really starts to kick in. So

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as you get older, you look around and you're like, god,

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I just was working with that person. Oh god, I

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just you know, oh my god. They were younger than

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me and they died, you know. And sometimes its accidents,

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sometimes it's health. It's just so you start to think

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about this, and in the in the world that I'm

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in here, I talk about it all the time, between

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mediumship and the other side and the scope of the world,

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the universe, why we're here, Car, I'm a reincarnation, so

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I'm constantly thinking about it, and it actually has made

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it for me at least much more palatable. Yeah, is

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that your.

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Speaker 2: Dag, Well it makes sense to me. I get to

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talk about it a lot, I and most often with

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people who want to talk about it. Every now and again,

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I get somebody who comes along with somebody else, and

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that person is reluctant, and like, I'll have conversations with

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you and the other person is listening, and maybe they'll

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pipe up and maybe I'll hear something. A couple weeks

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later that something was opened. But I just am at

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the point where I just trust the process and I

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trust the person, and we open to things we need

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to open to when we're ready, I think, And well, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's the sledgehammer of life I like to call it.

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Speaker 2: It does come along that way sometimes.

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Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about your background, like

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how did you get in I'm assuming at five year old.

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At six years old, you're like, you know what I

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want to do when I want to be a death duela,

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And your parents would be like, what the hell is

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a death duela.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be a veterinarian. I loved animals and

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I and I would get the remember the tic TACs.

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Of course, you'd get the tic TACs and I'd put

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little pecans in the tic TACs and I'd make medicine

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and I'd give the animals mouse. And I know that

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that was my thing. That was awesome. I was not

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particularly interested in dying. I understood about it. I was

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interested in hospitals. I was interested in working with children.

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Had an opportunity to go to Children's National Medical Center

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when I was in college and do an internship in

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psychology on a children's floor, and I worked on a

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orthopedic floor. One of my friends was on a floor

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where there were other things happening, and I was interested

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in those other things. But it was a great It

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was a great experience for me that summer, and that

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is the first time I met a child who I

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knew was dying. The kid had HIV. It was a

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foster kid, and the foster mom had like the gym

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mats were on the floor in the hospital room, and

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she was on the floor with him and they were

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playing and he was able to pick up his head

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and big giant brown eyes. And I didn't have much

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interaction with them. I was leaving the hospital one day

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and there's a people mover at that hospital at the time,

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and they were on the people mover and I was

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standing still and I was watching him and go by,

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and that little guy picked his head up and looked

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at me. He didn't wave, but there was a contact there.

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And it was the first time I thought I won't

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ever see him again. But I'm not going to see

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him again, not because I'm not going to see him again,

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because he's going to die. And I don't know that

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I took it any farther than that, but as I

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sit here four years later, that had an impact on me.

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I I toodled along. I got to go work at

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Children's Hospital in San Antonio. I worked in intensive care

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unit as a childlife specialist. We uh job of child

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job of a child life specialist is to help kids coping.

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It just to hospitalization and illness.

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Speaker 1: So you started that, you're already that's the gateway. I

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went a gateway drug as you will.

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Speaker 2: I went, yeah, I went right in. You know, somebody

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who's been sedated and missed Christmas. So we did Christmas

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in February. We decorated the whole unit and Santa Claus

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came in and the whole there were there were two kids.

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It was it was great. Another kid who'd been sedated

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for a long time and trying to come back in

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and shaving cream and painting with shaving cream. She had

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one hand, she could use those kinds of things. And

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then kids who were sick and going to die were

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sick and had died. I had the opportunity to do

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him prints and footprints. I had a really amazing mentor

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named Glee, who taught me about being with families and

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being with myself and how to honor and how to

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be with these grieving people. I was young. I was

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twenty twenty two, twenty three and went on vacation with

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my family. We got a phone call in the middle

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of the night that my brother Jim had died. He

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was thirty seven and I was twenty four. Oh, my God, Yeah,

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it was pretty It.

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Speaker 1: Was you're that's not supposed to know, it's not.

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Speaker 2: Supposed to happen. And we were a family that didn't

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do feelings. And then you have to, Yeah, you have to.

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Speaker 1: That's a sledgehammer.

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Speaker 2: That's a sledgehammer. So that sledgehammer at twenty four woke

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me up and it changed the Well, it opened the trajectory.

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I don't know that it changed it, but it opened it.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that from a lot of people in your

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world that there's a thing, there's a moment that something happens.

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More likely it's a family member or some tragedy. Yeah,

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that kind of makes them rethink. Well, wait a minute,

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is I always use uncle Bob? My uncle Bob always

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makes an appearance on the show. Is uncle Bob? Okay?

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What did uncle Bob go through? Where is uncle Bob? Now?

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Before these revelations and before you started getting into it,

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how spiritual were you? How what understanding did you have?

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Did you even think about the afterlife? Did you think

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about souls or either reincarnation or what happens? When did

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you think of any of this?

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Speaker 2: So I had I had an uncle Charlie also had

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an uncle Bob, but Uncle Charlie was the one who

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Uncle Charlie was interested in past lives and Uncle Charlie

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was interested in reincarnation.

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Speaker 1: Oh, he's a wua guy.

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Speaker 2: He was a big wua guy. And he also probably

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was bipolar. He would take off and be gone for

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several months, and they he'd come back and he's a

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fascinating guy.

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Speaker 1: But we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

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and now back to the show.

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Speaker 2: In conversations with him and my aunt Betty, his wife,

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I had a little taste of that and a little

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bit interested in it. We were also Methodist preacher family.

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And there are rules and regulations and ways you're supposed

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to be in West Texas and Texas you act, yes,

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somethings you talk about and some things you don't. And

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I had this patriarchal system that I lived in, and

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these are the ways you're supposed to be, And this

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is what religion is supposed to do. Is it programming?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And then I had these little nudges of this this

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is let's think about this, But I didn't Uh, I

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didn't have the what what there was to fall back

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on when Jim died was that Jim was a good guy,

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and Jim went to heaven, and I began to unspool

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that story and think about what that meant and what

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it meant for me. My family was trying to figure

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out what dying was to them and where he was,

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and it was a uh. And then we were sad,

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we were grieving, We remissed him terribly. So that that

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opened that opened many, many things for me. So, No,

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there was not a lot of spirituality. There was religion,

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There was not some spirituality. Spirituality came after college.

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Speaker 1: So was the dog move whatever the Yeah, that that

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flavor of Christianity, Yeah you had. Yeah. So then at

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what point, So when you start going into becoming an

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end of life counselor, yeah, uh, and then you have

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the tag of death doulah, which is an interesting name

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to say the least. It is.

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Speaker 2: I don't like it.

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Speaker 1: It's an it's not great branding, not great brand. End

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of life counselor is a little bit better than death doula.

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It's just like something out of the Middle Ages, like

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bringing the death dula.

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Speaker 2: It is it has such a.

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Speaker 1: It's heavy to it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's energy, yea.

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Speaker 1: Very hendry energy. Because the word death alone is heavy.

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Then you think the dula You're like, wait a minute,

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but Doula like, oh, I like thresholder.

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Speaker 2: I like this idea of somebody standing at the threshold

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with somebody as they're moving across. And that has a

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little different resonance for me.

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Speaker 1: Right, But we need a brand anyway, we need a

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brand end of life counselor. And so when you start

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going into that world, what was what was it about

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it that drew you there? Like, you know, I think

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I want to do the rest of my life. I

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want to go down this space. And then what did

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you start seeing that started to shake your foundations in

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your programming.

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Speaker 2: So my mother had deathbed visions. My mother had metastatic

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breast cancer, and we had conversations about what she might see.

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At some point, I had done I was working on

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my doctorate in doing lots and lots of research on

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deathbed phenomenon and deathbed visions, and so I had this,

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I had all this in me and then here she

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is moving into this experience and we got to talk

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about things. She had lots of restlessness and then there

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was some stillness. I didn't understand what all this was

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at the time. You have your first experience with dying

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in the way that you get to sit with somebody

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you know and you watch them have an experience that

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you've not seen before and try to put all that together.

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And that's what I was doing with her. She got

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uh still, and she got peaceful. Her her face just

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relaxed and her eyes relaxed. And I was watching her

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watch something under her eyelids, and I said, Mom, what

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do you What do you see? And she said, uh, Daddy, Charlie,

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and Aunt Lawa and a couple other people. And I said,

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bre's Jim. It's Jim. Jim's my brother who died. And

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she said, oh, he's been here. And I had had

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a dream that Jim was sitting in a chair reading

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a book. One of his favorite things to do is

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to read. I called my brother John and was telling

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him about it, and he had had a similar dream.

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So when Mom said that, I had this beautiful image

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that I have a little emotion as I think about it,

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of him sitting in the room just kind of hanging

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out and waiting for her. And I I took that

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experience and grabbed hold of it and thought, there's something

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here that I want to learn more. About I read

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Final Gifts by a couple of nurses. It was written

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in nineteen or published in nineteen ninety two. And Mom

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did a number of the things that those nurses were

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talking about. There's a lot of metaphors and behaviors. And

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I then got more interested and more interested continue to

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do coursework. And then my dad got sick and I

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watched him do the things that I was reading about

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in these research papers. And they kept telling me he

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was getting well and he was not getting well. And

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I would say, the doctor, but he's doing this and this,

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and she said, no, it's no big deal, don't worry

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about it. And I said, can we could we change

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the antibiotics. I just I'm not sure it's working. They

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ended up changing antibotics three times, I think. And he

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he did reaching. He saw people off the side of

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the bed, He saw my mother, He saw people around

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the corners of the room. He was way far away.

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He would he would get annoyed when people came in

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the room because he was off somewhere. He the woman

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came in to bring his trade eat and she said,

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I watched him put his stole on that he saw

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in the rest of us goodn't se put a stole on,

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and he probably opened his Bible and he was about

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to do something, and she said, pastor, I'm sorry. I

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didn't mean to bother you, and he said, I'm about

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to teach sunny school. So he was off somewhere, and

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what I imagined about that he's back in time somewhere. So

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I started watching and listening to him and pattern tracking.

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I'm an introvert. I have that thing where I really

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pay attention and see how things fit together. And the

293
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other part of this was I was probably scared out

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of my mind, and if I could track patterns, maybe

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I could make sense of this thing that felt really

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out of control. So I watched and watched and watched,

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and I would put that against the research that was

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in my brain and started seeing these patterns emerge and

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got super super fascinated by it. He didn't die. He

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came back one morning. My brother said, Dad, where have

301
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you been? And he said, traveling. He couldn't remember where

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he'd been, but he did say traveling. He was off

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with a bunch of people singing. At one point he

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let us know that there was some gathering and he

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was with these people, and he was singing, and all

306
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of those other people look at that and say, always confused,

307
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and these hallucinations and and and and and and and

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none of that made sense to me that there's got

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to be it seems that there's something else happening. And

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so I have pursued that. That's been my spirit spirituality

311
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moved from religion to spirituality into this bubble that's in

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this larger field of dying. And there's a bunch of

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us that are that are in this particular field field

314
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of energy, that are surfing it and learning and making

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sense of it. And you have you have these people

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on your show, and it's really it's fun for me

317
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to listen to where other people are plugging in and

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what they're learning and what they're taking back and how

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it's helping. Yes, and it's super fun.

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Speaker 1: It is, and not only in this this field which

321
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is the end of life, but then I do that

322
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with a lot of different feels and yes, individuality as well.

323
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So he's like, okay, so here are all the Buddhists, and

324
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here are all of this, and here is the psychics,

325
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and here are this, and here's the Atlantis and.

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Speaker 2: All this kind of consciousness.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Well, let me ask you, what is your

328
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take on consciousness now? Because the story you just said,

329
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I mean, I lean towards. I'm a storyteller, so I

330
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lean towards the stories and the mystical and the the

331
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the bigger ideas because they make sense to me. So

332
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when he's like traveling, I'm like, yeah, it doesn't even

333
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I didn't. I don't, I don't hesitate. Obviously he was traveling,

334
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but Mike, but obviously because of my understanding of not

335
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only metaphysics, but just my experiences with gurus from India

336
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and and and the mystics and all these things that

337
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they talk about, these ideas. So from my understanding, the

338
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story that he's saying like, oh I was gone, but

339
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the fascinating they came back. So he didn't have a

340
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near death experience. He had a something else happening to him,

341
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because he didn't die. He was just on the brink.

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We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

343
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and now back to the show.

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Speaker 2: He was on the brink, so I will bet money

345
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on it.

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Speaker 1: So he was traveling and he was going to either

347
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now we're going to go a little little We're going

348
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to go a little deeper. It could be alternate realities.

349
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It could be past lives, it could be parallel lives,

350
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it could be the future of the past. You know,

351
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all of this stuff, and he's exploring all of it.

352
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But when the veil gets so thin, where he was

353
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on the brink, the silver cord as they call it,

354
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is being tugged also tightly. Yes, he's able to then

355
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and go and do these things where it was almost

356
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like a dream like state, yes, but a conscious dream

357
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like state. So it's it was interesting, it.

358
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Speaker 2: Was it seemed to be conscious to him. We're I mean,

359
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we're we're we're watching sitting, I'm watching, I'm watching him

360
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reach for things. I'm watching him. So he was open.

361
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Speaker 1: So it wasn't just like you know, he was.

362
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Speaker 2: Here, sometimes he was away, and sometimes he was here

363
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and he's he's doing this, and he's he's he's licking

364
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in his hands. I said, what are you what are

365
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,839
you doing? And he said, he said, on me, it's

366
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a sonic Hamburger. So if you're in Texas, we have

367
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sonic Friday Friday evenings, we'd go have Sonic Hamburger. So

368
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he had opened the wrapper and as he was wont

369
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to do. If there was something on the rapper he needed,

370
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he would lick it off the wrapper. So in his reality,

371
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in that moment, he'd gone back to a time where

372
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he's licking off this wrapper. So I'm I'm watching him,

373
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and as he experienced my meaning making was as he

374
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his body was moving further and further into sickness, further

375
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and further into shutting down. These other things started happening.

376
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So he's getting sicker, and he's putting a stole on

377
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and having a Sunday school class. He's getting sicker, and

378
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he says, does anybody else see the Blue Angel? And uh,

379
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this is what I've got to talk to William about

380
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because he was able William Peters talk about experience. Yeah,

381
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so there's a whole thing about a very particular kind

382
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of guide that comes in and he got very the

383
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researchers got very excited about this blue Angel. And I

384
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guess this is something that comes up every now and again. So,

385
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,079
you know, Dad is sicker and he sees the blue Angel,

386
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and then he is sicker, and my mother's there and

387
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she's cooking something in the corner. She's here on the ground.

388
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The angel was up a little bit and I just

389
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paid attention to all those things. So he was he

390
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was going and I was sitting by his bed one

391
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night and I watched him reach up like this. This

392
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:22,039
kind of reaching is not far from going. When when

393
00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:27,279
somebody has the uh the energy, did reach like that,

394
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,880
it's a big deal. I recognize now because they're because

395
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they're dying. He had the energy to do that. But

396
00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:38,160
it's this straight up something here. This is different. This

397
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is a little before you get to hear.

398
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Speaker 1: But so here is the portal here if you will.

399
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we were at a bode. We had the second

400
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,839
room and abode. There were several guests that came in

401
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,839
one after another. I keep looking up, like it's there,

402
00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:52,759
there's a light in the ceiling, and that we didn't

403
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:55,680
tell the guests about the person who was there before

404
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,319
who saw a light in the ceiling. They would talk

405
00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:00,720
about it. I was like, wow, okay, so the portal

406
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:02,039
is in room too right.

407
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,039
Speaker 1: Now, and it's staying there.

408
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: It's for whatever reason. So I make up that Dad

409
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:16,119
was seeing something and I was videoing doing a phone.

410
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,880
How old am I videotaping filming? There we go and

411
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,319
I heard my inhalation when he reached up like that,

412
00:24:25,319 --> 00:24:29,400
because I thought, oh crap, we're far, We're far here,

413
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,160
he's going to die. And I called my brother and

414
00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:36,440
wondered about do we get hospice in, and it was

415
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,920
this whole thing. And then he got better and then

416
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,319
we had this like gosh, we shouldn't have told people,

417
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:49,240
and a little embarrassment about that, which I was also

418
00:24:49,319 --> 00:24:51,279
able to share. And people came back to me and said,

419
00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:53,000
oh my gosh, we were there too. Our person was

420
00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:54,640
right at the edge, our mother was right at the edge.

421
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,359
And then they came back. So I've gotten really fascinated

422
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:02,799
about that too. And there's this conversational hospice around. I

423
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:08,039
call them surges, so these surges of energy that people

424
00:25:08,079 --> 00:25:10,039
have and they're up and then they go down and

425
00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:13,799
they're five days, seven days, nine days, they're not talking,

426
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,400
and then they'll come back for a little while. And

427
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,319
I was with a woman named Glee who did that

428
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,640
over a couple of months, and I started tracking her

429
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,119
surges on post it notes. I've had a whole wall

430
00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:29,279
of she's down today, she's slept this much today, she's

431
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:31,519
been awake for four days. And it was like she

432
00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:35,640
had all this energy and she'd go down and rest

433
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,960
and rest and rest, and then she'd come back and.

434
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,799
Speaker 1: When she was resting, what was happening. Yeah, that's the

435
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,480
question because it seems like she's from my understanding, from

436
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,200
what my experience is that when they're going down that way,

437
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,559
that they are off somewhere. Yes, you know, and I've

438
00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:56,839
heard of this through I've heard the same thing happen

439
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:03,160
to people with dementia, Yes, the men and Alzheimer's, and

440
00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:06,559
that they're they're here, but they're not here. Yes, they're alive,

441
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,200
but they're not they're not actively here, but they are

442
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:12,880
somewhere and there's reativity and there is definitely activity. I'm

443
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,160
not sure if there's been any scientific research done on that,

444
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:18,599
like they put something that, Yeah, I would love to see,

445
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,839
like if they're gone, like what's going on? Are they dreaming?

446
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,480
Are they Yeah, it's something going on of what's happening

447
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:28,920
during that time and then they then they come back.

448
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,559
But it's interesting like on a soul level, why, I mean,

449
00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:35,319
I guess every case is different, so like why are

450
00:26:35,319 --> 00:26:37,119
you going through this? It's it's really up to the

451
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,319
soul and why they tend to do that. You have

452
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:42,319
no idea why. I'm Dean taken to the brink and

453
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,880
then coming back. So great example when your dad came back, Yeah,

454
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,440
did you have conversations like, Dad, what did you see?

455
00:26:49,559 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 2: I did? And he didn't remember. He he he doesn't

456
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,960
even remember the saying to my brother that that he

457
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,839
had been traveling and I that it needs to be

458
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:07,519
this this Signposts of Dying that I wrote, it was

459
00:27:08,319 --> 00:27:14,000
from watching him, and it's it's one thing to do.

460
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,680
You do your you do your work with dying people.

461
00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:22,480
You're in and out of a house. Maybe you go

462
00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:25,720
once a week, maybe you go twice a week at

463
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,680
Abode where our our hospice house in San Antonio. You

464
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,200
see people every day. You you are in a different

465
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:35,480
kind of intimate space with them. So there's a different

466
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:37,920
kind of learning in patient unit, same kind of things.

467
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,119
You're still in and out of the room, and you

468
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,000
may recognize some things and not recognize some things. But

469
00:27:44,039 --> 00:27:49,319
when it's your family member and you you know how

470
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,440
they are and you're interested. Some people are not so interested.

471
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:59,039
There's a different level of awareness that can happen there.

472
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,880
And for for people who do hospice works, it's a

473
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,240
whole different animal. When you're with your own people, of

474
00:28:09,319 --> 00:28:10,640
course a different.

475
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:14,599
Speaker 1: There's emotions, there's anger, there's peace, there's love, it's all

476
00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:14,880
of it.

477
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: There is all of that, and there's all this knowledge

478
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,359
you have or you think you have, about what dying

479
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,519
looks like. And then you start to see the layers

480
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:27,119
of it and you hold it differently and you feel

481
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,759
things differently. Because they talk about the field again, you're

482
00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:32,000
in a field of energy with your family, which is

483
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,640
different than anybody anything else. And you, if you have

484
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:43,880
that kind of connection, you feel things and you may

485
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:48,960
know or may not know what's cooking. But because of

486
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,839
those experiences with my dad, which went they happened a lot.

487
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,759
He was in and out of hospitals. That particular instance

488
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:03,279
was it was. It was powerful for both, It was

489
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:04,279
powerful for all of us.

490
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,559
Speaker 1: And do you remember me asking is he still with us?

491
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,119
Speaker 2: He's gone? He died in sixteen, okay?

492
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: And did it was it? Was it end of life

493
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,720
or was it quick?

494
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: It was end of life? I went, I went to

495
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,519
so how did that difference? So fascinating. I have a

496
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:23,599
friend who does energy work and she was working with

497
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,599
a kid who had down syndrome and who was dying,

498
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,640
and she said, uh, called me and she said, his

499
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,680
web of life is just tatters. And I said, tell

500
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,519
me what that means, and she said, think of a

501
00:29:35,559 --> 00:29:38,519
spider web. She said, I can. I can see a

502
00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:42,480
web inside of him. I can see yours. She said,

503
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,880
his is just it's falling apart. Yeah, because he's got

504
00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:51,799
exactly I loved that imagery. So I went to visit

505
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:57,519
Dad and he was awake for about five minutes and

506
00:29:57,559 --> 00:29:59,559
then he went to sleep, and it's the first time

507
00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:03,039
that had ever happened, and I knew that we were close.

508
00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:08,920
Not long and I got a call from his I

509
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:12,599
got a call from his assisted living. He'd been at

510
00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:14,880
the hospital. He was back home, but they didn't think

511
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,079
he was okay. And I went to visit him, and

512
00:30:17,119 --> 00:30:19,960
his kidneys were failing and I said, you know, you

513
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,160
can go to the hospital. We can take you back

514
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:23,839
to the er. If you stay here, you're going to die.

515
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,039
And I said it like that, and he said, I

516
00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:27,440
don't want to die, and I said, well, we got

517
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,359
to go to the er then, so went to the er.

518
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:35,359
Very kind man came in and said, if if you

519
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,279
were my grandpa, which made me laugh. Dad was forty

520
00:30:38,359 --> 00:30:40,920
years older than me, I would tell you to go

521
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,160
home and be with your family.

522
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:46,839
Speaker 1: So we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

523
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:51,720
and now back to the show.

524
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,319
Speaker 2: He wanted to be at the hospital that night he

525
00:30:56,359 --> 00:30:58,559
got some fluids. I went home to take care of

526
00:30:58,599 --> 00:31:05,960
the dog. Woman from somewhere in the hospital came in

527
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,480
and visited with him and gave him some kind of peace.

528
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,000
He told me he was not afraid to die. But

529
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,599
something happened in that exchange. I never found out who

530
00:31:16,599 --> 00:31:22,440
that woman was. Was the a So they came in

531
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,319
to draw blood and they couldn't get blood from him,

532
00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:26,160
and I said, Dad, you don't you don't have to

533
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,319
get blood draw and he said, he said I don't.

534
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:29,799
And I said, no, you don't. Never have to get

535
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:31,920
a blood draw again. And he said, I don't want

536
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:32,440
a blood draw.

537
00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: Man.

538
00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: They were in that room. Mister askins, if you don't

539
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,920
have blood draw, no dreatment, you're gonna die. And he

540
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,559
said it's okay. So we went home. My brother and

541
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:45,799
I tag teamed. He Dad was at an assistant living

542
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,920
in Taylor down the road. And that experience was different

543
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,119
in that I could feel if you think about the

544
00:31:54,160 --> 00:32:01,599
web of life, the energy was so different. The the

545
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,400
breath was different, the movement was different. And but you.

546
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:06,079
Speaker 1: Could feel it.

547
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: I could feel it. Uh yeah, I could feel it.

548
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:11,079
Speaker 1: Wow.

549
00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 2: And and.

550
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:16,559
Speaker 1: Yeah that.

551
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,519
Speaker 2: And it was hot it was summer in Texas. And

552
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:28,440
and and he'd let me videotape him, and I taked

553
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,359
a lot of it for research. Say for yeah, I said,

554
00:32:33,599 --> 00:32:37,839
you know, you want you want to teach, so he agreed,

555
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,519
But he would say things. And those things ended up

556
00:32:41,559 --> 00:32:43,519
being things that were in the book that I read

557
00:32:43,559 --> 00:32:48,720
when Mom died from the hospice nurses and things that

558
00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:53,079
folks I've worked with have said. And there's this there's

559
00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:55,599
this common trait, common trait that I think is in

560
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,079
the ze. Not in the zeit guys in the in consciousness.

561
00:32:58,119 --> 00:32:59,559
There's there's this language.

562
00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like the near death experience. Yes, yes, so

563
00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:06,119
near death experiencers have key things. It doesn't happen. Everything

564
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,319
doesn't happen for everybody, but there are a group of

565
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,039
you know, six to eight things that are common. Some

566
00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:13,920
are you know, less common, more common. So the same

567
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,240
thing happens with someone's dying. They go through these stages.

568
00:33:18,599 --> 00:33:23,519
From your point of view, Okay, so you've gone through

569
00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:27,119
this process, what do you think of consciousness at this point,

570
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,240
what is consciousness from your point of view, from all

571
00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:33,559
the experience of you seeing people pass because it has

572
00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:36,319
to open up, it has to open up a different

573
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,960
idea now of all of this, and in the concept

574
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,799
of reincarnation and souls, does that play out any part

575
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:43,039
in this?

576
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have been on a search. I spent time

577
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:54,359
in Peru. I listened to the shaman talk about the

578
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,599
true God and my ears perked up and I thought,

579
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,079
what's the true God? The real God and not the

580
00:34:01,079 --> 00:34:03,319
God of religion and not the God of your parents?

581
00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:07,880
And on that when and I thought, okay, maybe I

582
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:13,239
can get behind that. And then this idea that we

583
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:22,280
are all pieces of consciousness. We are we are part

584
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:29,920
of the universe. We are part of this evolving consciousness.

585
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,800
You're doing your work in the world. That's adding to

586
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,880
what comes next. I'm doing my work that's coming that

587
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,400
that is adding to what's next.

588
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: And when you say what's nextually talking about the evolution.

589
00:34:41,079 --> 00:34:45,079
Speaker 2: The evolution of consciousness, the evolution of the world of humanity,

590
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:50,559
where we're we are our little fractal part of that

591
00:34:51,039 --> 00:34:57,760
and what we do matters and that feels that feels right.

592
00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:02,079
Speaker 1: So from your I mean, we've spoken about your father's

593
00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:05,599
passing and his experiences, which you're interesting. It's on an

594
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,639
experimental standpoint to see that as a researcher, to see

595
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:14,719
that firsthand, those two elements one when he actually passed,

596
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,280
but the other one that we thought he was going

597
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,599
to pass and being able to compare those two is

598
00:35:18,639 --> 00:35:22,679
pretty fascinating for you. So, yeah, that was the kind

599
00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:25,760
of it seems like it was a foundational for sure,

600
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,079
part of your journey. So now since then, you've probably

601
00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:34,679
been witnessed to so many other passings. As a death doula, as.

602
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: I started calling myself a death doula because other people

603
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,079
were calling themselves a death doula, so might as well.

604
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: Right, it's branding, I get it. So so as as

605
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,039
an end of life counselor, you've seen so many people there,

606
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:53,440
you go, as you've seen so many people pass and

607
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,159
go through that transition, what are what's some of the

608
00:35:56,199 --> 00:36:00,199
phenomenon that you're seeing deathbed phenomenon that you're seeing that

609
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,639
stuff that I'm assuming at this point you're not surprised

610
00:36:03,639 --> 00:36:06,679
at anything because you've seen it so much, But there

611
00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:08,880
are moments then you're like, well, yeah, this happens, and

612
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,320
you know, Uncle Bob shows up and you know this

613
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,920
and that, and Uncle Charlie's there too, and all of

614
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,360
this stuff, right, But at certain times you're just like, oh, yeah,

615
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,320
this is new. So what are some of the common

616
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:22,960
and what are some of the outliers?

617
00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:27,679
Speaker 2: Well, let me so, Aunt Betty, Oh.

618
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: I love this Uncle Charlie, Uncle Bob, and Eddie.

619
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 2: They're all together and they're all they're all over here. Yeah.

620
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,199
I got a call from my cousin, Aunt Betty. She said,

621
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,119
I've got something here I want to read to you.

622
00:36:40,159 --> 00:36:42,480
And she started to read me this letter that said,

623
00:36:42,559 --> 00:36:46,400
I'm I'm got the car loaded and ready to go.

624
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,199
I can't find the car keys. I'll call Charlie. So

625
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,480
at this point I sat down. Uncle Charlie's been dead

626
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,840
for twenty years. When the car is packed and ready

627
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,519
to go and you can't find the car keys, the

628
00:36:57,559 --> 00:37:04,159
person is in a I estimated, in a dying experience

629
00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:06,599
of some kind, and there's a little hitch in there.

630
00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:08,639
But when they find the car keys are going to go.

631
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,559
I'm in Conroe. So she's back in time. She'd been

632
00:37:13,559 --> 00:37:17,639
in Conro forty years before. They worked for Exon. It

633
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:23,360
looks different than before. This woman is with her, don't.

634
00:37:23,679 --> 00:37:26,760
I don't know her, but she's nice. She's smoking a cigarette,

635
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,679
which made me laugh because I think I think of

636
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,960
this person as a guide and that aunt Betty had

637
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,320
a guide who smoked cracked me up because she didn't

638
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,000
smoke or drinker any of those things.

639
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: Very but that made sense to her.

640
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:47,559
Speaker 2: In that So she's she's written all this out. Kathy says,

641
00:37:48,159 --> 00:37:50,800
I called Mom this morning. You coudn't get her to

642
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,639
answer the phone. We found her in the chair. She'd

643
00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:54,559
had a heart attack, she'd had a stroke. She's alive.

644
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,880
We've got her at the hospital. Betty died Friday. She said,

645
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,039
I think this letters for you. I think this is

646
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:04,800
you know, this is your work. I think she wrote

647
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,000
this for you, and she Betty had tried to date it.

648
00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:09,920
She had gotten the month, but she she didn't get

649
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,559
the year. But it's in her hand and it's a

650
00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:17,000
deathbed phenomena experience that she wrote for me. And I

651
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,599
get to use that for teaching and that documented. Wow,

652
00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:26,360
that was powerful for me, super powerful for me, really rare.

653
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,880
So I I have that and when I go and

654
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,079
talk to people, I'll share that sometimes and that opens

655
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:40,400
people's memory to things that somebody said somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

656
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,280
I didn't. I didn't know that's what it was. I

657
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,239
didn't know. I thought they were confused, but maybe they

658
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,960
weren't confused. They were talking about this. They were talking

659
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,840
about jet on the runway they didn't have any doors,

660
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,760
or they were talking about the train. That's the train's

661
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,239
been by. Next time the train comes, I'm going to

662
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,719
get on it. That's one that I hear a lot.

663
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:03,559
Speaker 1: Interesting.

664
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and is it consciousness? Is it our internal

665
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,760
self trying to make sense of dying and our body

666
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,079
is doing whatever it's doing. I just think it's fascinating,

667
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,199
and the more stories I hear, the more interested I get.

668
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,559
Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting from this. It's the same concept of

669
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:28,840
the scientific argument for near death experiences, that is just

670
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,559
your brain doing something, your chemical is going off. And

671
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:33,199
I'm like, well, then they all should be the exact

672
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,719
same thing. They're not. They're not, they're not. It's a

673
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,280
very custom. But what I find fascinating about what you're

674
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:45,039
saying is that it seems like a in a end

675
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:47,239
of life thing, not an accident, but in a life

676
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:52,639
situation when there's time for the soul to transition. It

677
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,599
seems like the universe is do or i'll use the

678
00:39:56,639 --> 00:39:58,599
term universe god, whatever you want to call it. The

679
00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:05,079
other side is constructing a runway in a way for

680
00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:08,440
them to be comfortable to take the ride, because this

681
00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:11,400
is a jarring coming out of this and going into

682
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,599
the place again. From a lot of near death experience conversations, yes,

683
00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:18,840
it's you know, in near death experiences, after interviewing one

684
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,719
hundred and fifty of them at this point, the understanding

685
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,519
is you get a customized experience. Yes, what is pleasurable

686
00:40:26,559 --> 00:40:29,480
for you? What is going to calm you? Who's going

687
00:40:29,559 --> 00:40:33,440
to be there? You know, if you're Christian, Jesus generally

688
00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:35,360
is the hardest working man in show business, so he

689
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,400
does show up. We'll be right back after a word

690
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:47,840
from our sponsor, and now back to the show. But

691
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,840
there is a rare occasion that Christiana will show up

692
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,360
for someone who never was a Hindu. It happens. But

693
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,880
generally speaking, whoever's there, it's either a deity. It's either

694
00:40:57,199 --> 00:41:01,880
Sometimes it's a that's aute teacher in second grade that

695
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,119
you had a connection with, yes, which is like wow,

696
00:41:05,159 --> 00:41:08,199
that's random, But those are the people that kind of

697
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,119
are placed their characters that are placed there, and then

698
00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:14,360
the environments are very customized. So that's in the near

699
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:15,159
death experience.

700
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: Yes, and I find the same thing in deathbed phenomenon.

701
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:20,679
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard that one.

702
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the things I wrote about in

703
00:41:23,519 --> 00:41:26,840
my dissertation was it is it is. I didn't use

704
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,719
the word customize, but it's that it's it's specific to

705
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,559
the person and what they need. One of the examples

706
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:36,440
of that was a gentleman who wasn't letting go and

707
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,960
his family was getting kind of like, you know, what's

708
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,559
the issue here, and he didn't want to see his father.

709
00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:45,679
His father had beaten him. He knew. People came to help. Yeah,

710
00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:50,480
I was trauma. And after he said that, after the

711
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,159
family was made aware, his wife came in one day

712
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,480
and the man was talking to somebody beside him and

713
00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:02,159
it was a little boy. And that little boy ended

714
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,360
up staying with this guy for the next couple of weeks.

715
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:07,800
And that was his I'll call it his transition partner.

716
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: But that was that was not in reality.

717
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 2: It was in his reality, but that and that transition

718
00:42:16,519 --> 00:42:21,880
partner was who helped ease the way I didn't hear

719
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,880
any other story about any other kid that showed up

720
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,119
in that particular in that that kind of way to

721
00:42:26,159 --> 00:42:36,039
help somebody. Other people, you well, I people will see

722
00:42:36,639 --> 00:42:42,480
people they don't know and and then began to see

723
00:42:42,519 --> 00:42:44,320
and hear people they do know. And it may be

724
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,360
people from a long, long time ago. Butch was a

725
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:50,400
South African soccer player and his soccer team came in

726
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,480
one day. You know. He was in his twenties when

727
00:42:53,519 --> 00:42:55,719
all that happened, and he was I don't know, eighty

728
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,199
five or eighty eight, and he was mad and his

729
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,559
family didn't know what was cooking, and he said, the

730
00:43:01,679 --> 00:43:06,079
team is here, but they left, and they left ladders

731
00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:07,800
in the room. So he's seeing the things in the

732
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,440
ceiling left ladders in the room, but the ladders are

733
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,760
too short and I can't get up them to get away.

734
00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:17,400
I get to leave. So it's that I call it

735
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,360
almost ready, But like there are.

736
00:43:20,199 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 1: Some past I didn't jump on.

737
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 2: There are some hindrances. They're just not quite ready to

738
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,360
go yet. And I think about that in terms of

739
00:43:28,119 --> 00:43:31,519
our ideas of somebody should be ready to go, and

740
00:43:31,559 --> 00:43:34,360
why can't they let go? We don't know, we don't

741
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,039
know what needs to get sorted. And I watched this

742
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:41,320
guy Abode. I swear probably fifteen people came in and said,

743
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,360
it's okay for you to go. You know, you've got

744
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,079
to give permission. And I thought, if fifteen people came

745
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:47,519
in and told me that it was okay for me

746
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:50,000
to go and just to leave, I would be so sad.

747
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,840
So I switched that. Because of that experience, I started

748
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,599
changing my language to we're here with you until you're

749
00:43:58,639 --> 00:44:02,039
ready to go. We're right here with you whenever you're ready,

750
00:44:02,199 --> 00:44:04,320
but we're right here with you, instead of it's okay

751
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,559
for you to go, get out of here, get out

752
00:44:06,559 --> 00:44:14,679
of here. So I don't beautiful that inside there's something

753
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,679
that's just not quite ready yet. And I love that metaphor.

754
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,559
Sometimes they took the letters all the way away, but

755
00:44:22,679 --> 00:44:25,199
his were too short. There's a rope, but the rope

756
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:25,760
is too short.

757
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: There's a lot of that. Yeah, okay, I'll tell you

758
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,480
a story if you don't mind help me. Yes. So

759
00:44:31,559 --> 00:44:33,639
I was speaking to a medium as one does, yes,

760
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,960
and she told me a story of someone who's dying

761
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,800
and he wouldn't go Yeah, And the family knew her,

762
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,400
like can you come in and just let us know.

763
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,400
He's been here for a few weeks now. He just

764
00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:49,719
won't go. I mean it's tearing us apart watching this.

765
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:52,800
We don't want him to suffer anymore. What's the problem. Yeah,

766
00:44:53,199 --> 00:44:55,239
So she came in and she had a conversation with

767
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,400
him because she's able to talk to him on the

768
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,440
other side. And she she tells the wife or the daughter.

769
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:08,599
She's like, listen, can you go to his office in

770
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:13,159
his house. She's like, okay, there's the daughter and the

771
00:45:13,159 --> 00:45:17,440
wife's still alive. She goes to the house. She's like, oh,

772
00:45:17,679 --> 00:45:21,639
go to his desk in the It's funny when I

773
00:45:21,639 --> 00:45:23,480
tell this story because it's so ridiculous, but it meant

774
00:45:23,559 --> 00:45:25,760
a lot to him, and he wouldn't go before this, yes,

775
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,320
you would think. But go to the right top drawer.

776
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:37,199
Open it. There are his taxes. They're filed, they have

777
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,639
a stamp on it. You just need to put it

778
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,199
in the mailbox. And he can't go until that is done.

779
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,519
And she's like, are you kidding me? My father is

780
00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:56,039
hanging around for taxes literally death and taxes seriously, and

781
00:45:56,079 --> 00:45:58,559
she's like do it. And she's like, look, it's no harm.

782
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,559
Just put it in the mail. She put it in

783
00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:06,159
the mail. He died within hours. He left. It was

784
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,280
that simple. And she's like, I can't believe he was

785
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,480
holding on to make sure the taxes got But it's

786
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,559
fascinating what a soul, a personality, and a soul will

787
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:20,079
do in this reality. So we are so ingrained in

788
00:46:20,199 --> 00:46:25,719
our mask, in our character, and of these worldly things

789
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,719
which mean truly nothing in the grand scheme of the universe,

790
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:35,960
but in our experience and our soul's journey is extremely important.

791
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,960
But that tax, that tax example, it's a great one.

792
00:46:41,159 --> 00:46:46,039
It makes no sense whatsoever to us outside, but in

793
00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:49,400
his world that meant something. So I'm thinking about like

794
00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:54,440
my parents and things that mean something to them that

795
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:59,000
is insane to me, but in their world and in

796
00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:02,960
their experience that's super important. Like if my dad's not

797
00:47:03,039 --> 00:47:07,159
watching baseball on Saturday and Sunday, I mean, it's the

798
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,800
end of the world. To me, it's like it's a game, yeah,

799
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,480
you know, but for him there's a meaning to it.

800
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 2: Yes.

801
00:47:14,159 --> 00:47:16,559
Speaker 1: Just like when I'm going I'll probably there'll probably be

802
00:47:16,599 --> 00:47:19,880
some sort of movie stuff going on. I'll probably like

803
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:24,039
you know that I'm in the theater, honey, yeah, and

804
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,960
Steven Spielberg's here and that that would be my experience

805
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,679
probably I'm just throwing that out there, but like something

806
00:47:30,679 --> 00:47:33,400
that is meaningful. And then also Yoga Nanda's here as well,

807
00:47:33,639 --> 00:47:35,840
so like what is happening, So like those would be

808
00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:38,280
you know, George Lucas is here, is this star am

809
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,480
I in Star Wars? That would be something that would

810
00:47:40,519 --> 00:47:44,400
be really meaningful and impactful to me as my soul journey.

811
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:47,800
But to the outside advice like dad, are you watching

812
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,840
a movie right now? Kind of thing. So it's it's

813
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,039
it's really fascinating.

814
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 2: If your family knows Your family knows you sure, and

815
00:47:57,039 --> 00:47:59,519
knows what you love and don't love, and what drove

816
00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:02,840
you crazy and all that stuff. As you as you

817
00:48:03,159 --> 00:48:07,800
begin to as your web begins to dissolve and the

818
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,280
metaphors begin to happen and the language changes and the

819
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:16,599
behaviors changes, they can see things that will make sense

820
00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:19,320
in terms of your life that other people don't. So

821
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:25,559
hospice folks are are fabulous and wonderful and they don't

822
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,760
know you the way your family does. So there's some

823
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:33,079
things that you're doing they you know, he's patient and

824
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:35,840
Bedfords doing some things. It's no big thing. But if you,

825
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,719
if you as a family member, can see that and

826
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,840
hold that a little bit differently, it makes the dying

827
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:47,119
experience different. So I talk about going back in time.

828
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,559
So if you, as a family member, are watching and

829
00:48:50,599 --> 00:48:54,840
you hear something like, you might say, I need I

830
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:01,559
need the suitcases. That is a classic piece of language

831
00:49:01,599 --> 00:49:03,880
that that people say. They'll come up out of a

832
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,239
sleep they've been sleeping for nine hours or ten hours,

833
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:07,840
and they'll see it. I need get my bags, I

834
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,599
need my luggage, I need the map, I need my

835
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:18,360
dad wanted his knife, his pocket knife, exactly the yes, yeah,

836
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,320
And you either blow that off or you go, yeah,

837
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,400
all right, let me let me go find your pocket knife,

838
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,559
and find your pocket knife and put it there. We

839
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:30,800
had a adult sons who went home and got the

840
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,639
suitcases and brought the suitcases. So when the dad woke up,

841
00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:36,079
even just for a flash, he could see the suitcases

842
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:38,480
were by the end of the bed. A beautiful picture

843
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:41,400
of those suitcases and the dad's feet at the end

844
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:42,880
of the bed, and it's black and white. I love

845
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,360
that picture, and I love that they they did that

846
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,519
for him. It wasn't just it wasn't just a thing.

847
00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:57,360
And I think that's the that's the part of the

848
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,079
the dying experience that I want more people to understand

849
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,360
so that it can be meaningful in a different way

850
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,280
and maybe a deeper way, and maybe make it more special.

851
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,159
Speaker 1: Because a lot of times the relatives and family members

852
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,880
are only thinking about themselves and how they're grieving the situation,

853
00:50:16,079 --> 00:50:19,599
which I get sure, but for them to step out

854
00:50:19,639 --> 00:50:23,480
of themselves just for a moment and make sure that

855
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,800
the person who's a dying what do they need? Yeah,

856
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,800
I know you're You'll have time to grieve, will be

857
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:37,079
right back after a word from our sponsor, and now

858
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:42,079
back to the show. And but they're so complex, there's

859
00:50:42,079 --> 00:50:44,679
so many different emotions. There's so much like I hate him,

860
00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:47,320
I love and my trauma, the no trauma, you know,

861
00:50:47,519 --> 00:50:49,559
like he was great, he was horrible, like this whole

862
00:50:49,679 --> 00:50:53,000
it's just this, that's what human humanity is. This this

863
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:54,239
beautiful soup.

864
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,159
Speaker 2: Of stuff, beautiful super stuff that is exactly right.

865
00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:03,639
Speaker 1: But people who are watching a loved one pass, if

866
00:51:03,679 --> 00:51:08,400
they can be empathetic for that moment and helped like that,

867
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,840
that's a beautiful story about the luggage. Yea like to

868
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,920
go get or go get the pocket knife. Yeah, and

869
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,920
it put it in their hand. These kind of little

870
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,239
things to get over the pain that you're going through.

871
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:19,840
So if you can put it aside for a minute

872
00:51:20,199 --> 00:51:22,840
and make sure that they need what they need is

873
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:24,960
there for them. Yeah, And it's not just being in

874
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,440
a hospice unit. Sometimes it's about going through the theatrics

875
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,079
of let's go get his bags. Yeah, let's go get

876
00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:37,159
the pocket knife. Yeah, it's here's the book. We're mailing it.

877
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,920
We're mailing it. And by the way, it wasn't in

878
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:44,840
the room. He just knew on a cosmic or you know,

879
00:51:45,079 --> 00:51:48,400
a quantum field level that that was in She didn't

880
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,840
walk in and go Dad, I already know the second

881
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:51,400
she did it.

882
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 2: He knew.

883
00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:54,039
Speaker 1: I think it was thirty minutes later the call CLLIK

884
00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:55,719
came in from that doctor. Yeah, he's gone.

885
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 2: That's the part that I love, those those pieces of

886
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,639
wisps of energy that passed between us. I'm like somebody

887
00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:08,800
you're thinking about in the phone rings, and it's them

888
00:52:09,199 --> 00:52:12,599
that makes sense to me. In terms of dying too.

889
00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:16,000
There are things that happen that get sent across airwaves

890
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,840
and people know and the person comes to say goodbye

891
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,559
in California before they feel them beside the bed, that

892
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,599
all that stuff, those after death communications.

893
00:52:24,679 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 1: A classic one is like, you know, Uncle Bob came

894
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,480
to visit me and Jenny or and Betty showed up. Yes,

895
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:33,960
that's a week before they passed, and they were talking

896
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,199
to me like it's okay, I'll be here for you

897
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,400
when you're ready, and all that kind of stuff. I'm

898
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:38,920
gonna tell you another story that happened to me. This

899
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,719
is this is one of my deathbed situations that happened

900
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:47,480
to me when I wasn't near her when she passed,

901
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,119
but my aunt we were. I mean, I wouldn't say

902
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:52,760
we were close that we talked all the time, but

903
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:54,760
I loved her tremendous and she had a lot of

904
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,800
love for me, and anytime I saw her it was

905
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,400
you know, but she did help, you know, when I

906
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,079
was that when I was a young boy, we spent

907
00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:03,320
a lot of time together. I went over and played

908
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,440
with my cousins all that kind of stuff. So I

909
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:07,840
had a connection with her more so than a lot

910
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,320
of my other relatives that I grew up with. And

911
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:12,559
there was a lot of love there and I loved

912
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:15,480
her her black rice. I said. She used to make congri,

913
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:19,800
so it's called congrie in Cuban in Spanish. So it

914
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:21,960
was the dark rice with beings and stuff that she

915
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,280
would to always make for me. So we had a

916
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,199
deep connection. So when she passed, I heard about it.

917
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:29,599
I was in La at the time, and she was

918
00:53:29,599 --> 00:53:32,840
in Florida and she passed. And then three days later

919
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,719
I was doing a project, a filmmaking project where I

920
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:44,400
was I needed like some VHS footage like textures and

921
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,400
stuff like that. Was creating something for a project that

922
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,400
was doing. So I was like filming VHS like you

923
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,639
know tracking, you know, the old all that kind of

924
00:53:51,679 --> 00:53:54,199
stuff to apply it to current footage to make it

925
00:53:54,199 --> 00:53:55,800
look more VHS. Yeah, that kind of stuff. So I

926
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,000
was creating all of that, and I was like going

927
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,119
through my archives of stuff and then all of a sudden,

928
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:05,840
I pressed play and there's this scene that I shot

929
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:10,719
for thirty seconds a minute. I was testing out a

930
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,920
I never forgot it. I was my first job. I

931
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,679
had a steady cam Junior, which is a gimbal essentially

932
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,079
what gimbal used to be. Yeah, and I had a

933
00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:23,440
high eight camera and I was testing it out at

934
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,599
Thanksgiving and they were all there. I'm getting chills thinking

935
00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:31,079
about it. And she was there, my grandmother was there,

936
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:36,000
my other aunts were there, and it was so I'd forgotten.

937
00:54:36,119 --> 00:54:40,639
It was lost to time. And just three days later

938
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,079
that video showed up and I was like, son of

939
00:54:44,159 --> 00:54:46,679
them and I sent it to my parents. I sent

940
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,679
it to my family and everyone was crying and I

941
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,599
was like, oh my god, I'm like, I completely, I

942
00:54:52,599 --> 00:54:55,320
mean completely. It was literally a minute a footage. It

943
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,840
was a some test footage. Yeah, and they were all there,

944
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:00,639
and it was just like my dad was there when

945
00:55:00,639 --> 00:55:04,760
he was like I think probably my age now, So

946
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,400
it was, but she was there, smiling and everything, and

947
00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:09,840
I think it was just a way. The way what

948
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:16,320
I like to believe happened is that she she was

949
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,559
trying to tell me I'm okay and send me a

950
00:55:18,599 --> 00:55:22,559
little kind of love love letter to not only me,

951
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:24,760
because she knew I would send to everybody else. Yes,

952
00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:26,400
And I was the only one that could.

953
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 2: Do it yeah yeah, or would do it yeah.

954
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 1: And I did it. And this is years before Next

955
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,480
Level Soul, this is years before I'm having these insane

956
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,559
conversations all of this stuff. It was so beautiful. But

957
00:55:38,679 --> 00:55:40,360
I always was like, oh.

958
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:40,639
Speaker 2: It's love.

959
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:46,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was just so specific, so random, the timing.

960
00:55:46,679 --> 00:55:50,159
It was just yeah, come on, except not exactly like

961
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,760
come on, this is you know so one other. So,

962
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,920
as far as death phenomenon go, there's the grabbing up,

963
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,280
there's the train, there's the ropes, there's the thing, all

964
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:08,159
that kind of stuff is there. Julie Ryan, who's a

965
00:56:08,199 --> 00:56:11,679
friend of ours, she's she deals with a lot of this.

966
00:56:12,119 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 2: Julie.

967
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:17,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, No she's not. She's she's a psychic medium in

968
00:56:17,079 --> 00:56:19,119
the heel. Yes, but she does. She wrote a whole

969
00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:22,599
book about the stages of death. Yes, so I'm looking

970
00:56:22,639 --> 00:56:25,239
forward to having you guys having a conversation. That should

971
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:29,880
be fun. But she talks about every day. There's like

972
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,440
a twelve day pro there's like there's different phases of

973
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,159
things like on if this happens, then like you're a

974
00:56:36,199 --> 00:56:37,920
few days away, if this happens, you're a few days

975
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,079
away if this happened, And it's getting closer and closer.

976
00:56:40,119 --> 00:56:45,239
So the relatives, the animals, the deities, the the experiences

977
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,639
you're talking about, there is this there's a systematic thing.

978
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,280
What is your experience for that?

979
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,119
Speaker 2: There is I call it a trajectory. There's a trajectory

980
00:56:53,199 --> 00:56:58,360
of experiences that happen. Everybody's different, right, And you can

981
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:03,199
look at somebody and think their pulse is what it is,

982
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,480
they're breathing, is what it is, they're gray. You are

983
00:57:06,519 --> 00:57:08,679
certain they're going to die in the next three hours,

984
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,119
and they come back and they're there for another two weeks.

985
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:20,320
I listen to seasoned hospice people who will not say

986
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,400
it's going to be you know, families want to know

987
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:25,679
it's going to be in the next couple of hours,

988
00:57:25,679 --> 00:57:28,840
the next couple of days. We're gonna I'm gonna it

989
00:57:29,079 --> 00:57:30,800
could be here, it could be here. This is what

990
00:57:31,199 --> 00:57:37,000
I'm seeing, but I I have I was hesitant for

991
00:57:37,039 --> 00:57:40,920
a while several years to talk about the trajectory of

992
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,320
experiences as I saw them, because I didn't want people

993
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:48,559
to take them literally because sometimes you just can't. You

994
00:57:48,639 --> 00:57:52,639
can recognize them as signposts, which is what you talk

995
00:57:52,639 --> 00:57:56,760
about mile markers in life, and that's what these are.

996
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,320
And it doesn't mean this kind of reaching. I hear

997
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:03,519
somebody said they're going to go in twenty.

998
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: Four hours, you can't know.

999
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think it works that way. No,

1000
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:14,920
if they're if they have the energy to reach like that, maybe, yeah,

1001
00:58:15,039 --> 00:58:19,719
I wouldn't I if they're if they're reaching like that

1002
00:58:20,239 --> 00:58:24,199
and they're on hospice, uh. And there are people to

1003
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,199
call that need to come or want to be with

1004
00:58:26,239 --> 00:58:27,320
the person, I would.

1005
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,519
Speaker 1: Call them a day. It could be.

1006
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:36,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's different kinds of breathing, you know, the physical

1007
00:58:36,559 --> 00:58:42,840
things that happened. Oh, that's that's different. When when my

1008
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,880
dad said he came out of a haze and he said,

1009
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:51,239
lift me up, lift me up, up, up, and my

1010
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:56,440
brother and I dutifully went to the bed and scooted

1011
00:58:56,519 --> 00:58:58,559
him up in the bed and he said, well, that's

1012
00:58:58,639 --> 00:59:02,000
one way. And when he said that, I realized he

1013
00:59:02,239 --> 00:59:06,440
wasn't on our plane. He's trying to figure out how

1014
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,639
to get out of here. Lift me up, up up?

1015
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,559
How do I go? Take the take the chains off?

1016
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,239
He kind of mumbled, and I said what he said,

1017
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:18,800
take the chains off? And I said okay. So I

1018
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,239
reached down and I touched his hand and rubbed him

1019
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,440
a little bit and I said they're off now. He said, okay.

1020
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,119
You could see his whole body just this relaxing happened.

1021
00:59:28,199 --> 00:59:31,920
So how do we how do we get out of

1022
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:36,079
this suit? How we get out of this body? And

1023
00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:41,119
those little pieces of language to me are indicators that

1024
00:59:41,159 --> 00:59:47,519
they're they're working to get out. And Uh, my opportunity

1025
00:59:47,559 --> 00:59:50,800
as another human who is coming along somebody who's dying,

1026
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:57,800
is to sit in that space and be peaceful and

1027
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:02,239
let that peaceful energy be in the room. Frank Osistski's

1028
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,920
a Zen. He started Zen Hospice in San Francisco, and

1029
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:12,840
he talks about having the best case scenario. You have

1030
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:14,880
somebody that works with the body, takes care of the body,

1031
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:16,920
and the somebody that takes care of the spirit. You

1032
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,079
have those two people in the room or a bunch

1033
01:00:20,119 --> 01:00:21,840
of people in the room to do those kinds of things.

1034
01:00:22,559 --> 01:00:25,960
That's a beautiful way to accompany somebody as they're leaving.

1035
01:00:26,519 --> 01:00:31,960
So when I worked at a bode I often would

1036
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,280
sit There's a couch that was up against a wall,

1037
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:36,599
and then the bed was there.

1038
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

1039
01:00:44,639 --> 01:00:45,880
and now back to the show.

1040
01:00:48,239 --> 01:00:51,719
Speaker 2: And I got to a point where I would recognize

1041
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,559
when I needed to be on the couch or when

1042
01:00:54,599 --> 01:00:56,880
I needed to be beside the person. And I don't

1043
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:58,840
know that I could always tell you what that was.

1044
01:01:01,519 --> 01:01:05,960
When you get to a place where you know something well,

1045
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,239
you take it in with your whole senses. And that's

1046
01:01:09,239 --> 01:01:10,960
what I do when I walk into a room when

1047
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,440
somebody's dying now and I can't, I don't separate it anymore.

1048
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,159
It's just there's a knowing, And it's the smell, it's

1049
01:01:18,159 --> 01:01:21,239
the feel, it's the movement in the room with the

1050
01:01:21,239 --> 01:01:23,880
other people there. It's the way the bed looks. All

1051
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:28,639
of those things are pieces of information that guide me

1052
01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:34,119
about what's the best way I can be helpful.

1053
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:40,079
Speaker 1: You know what's really interesting. You're a doctor and you've

1054
01:01:40,119 --> 01:01:40,519
been in.

1055
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 2: The counseling doctor, counseling doctor.

1056
01:01:42,199 --> 01:01:45,199
Speaker 1: About a doctrine of the less, but you've been around

1057
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:49,559
many doctors and hospice and end of life is a

1058
01:01:49,639 --> 01:01:54,239
very interesting aspect of the medical field. Yeah, because you

1059
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:59,639
know doctors in general. When I've spoken to doctors who

1060
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,800
are not in this field, they look at it as

1061
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:07,440
almost an oddity. Many times some love it and really

1062
01:02:07,559 --> 01:02:11,199
why they but or they're confused by it. Yeah, they're

1063
01:02:11,239 --> 01:02:13,320
just like, I don't know what's happening there. But then

1064
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,400
someone like yourself, obviously an educated woman, you know, someone

1065
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,199
who's gone through stuff and you're speaking articulately about very

1066
01:02:19,239 --> 01:02:21,119
woo woo stuff like it's like I feel the energy,

1067
01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:23,960
I feel this, I feel this the web. It's hard

1068
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:26,039
for them to wrap their heads around it because they

1069
01:02:26,079 --> 01:02:31,840
are so not only programmed but trained in the physical

1070
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,320
as they kind of need to be for the work

1071
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,000
that they do. Like I always say, if I'm shot,

1072
01:02:37,119 --> 01:02:42,360
don't rub a leaf on me, don't do that. Take

1073
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,800
me to an urgent, take me to the emergency room

1074
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,920
and a trauma center, please, yeah, don't like, Okay, it's

1075
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,880
time to get some sage out, no, please, for God's sakes.

1076
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:56,920
But anything long term, I always like to go more

1077
01:02:57,239 --> 01:03:00,719
natural homeopathic if I can't, yeah, yeah, yeah, But there's

1078
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,840
places for both in the medical field and the healing

1079
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,000
and the healing arts and so on. I think so exactly.

1080
01:03:07,039 --> 01:03:11,239
But looking at hospice in general and speaking to doctors,

1081
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,280
they just looked at it as an oddity, almost like

1082
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:18,440
I can't it's over there. Yeah, that's it's sounds the

1083
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,559
hospice they can't because it's kind of like they can't

1084
01:03:21,559 --> 01:03:24,719
wrap their head around it's really interesting. So I imagine

1085
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:28,840
that you've had to encounter that in your work over

1086
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,639
the years of other people in the field, in the

1087
01:03:31,639 --> 01:03:35,760
medical field who are just not dismissive of it. I can't.

1088
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:37,800
I don't. I mean, I find that very rude if

1089
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,320
it beat someone being dismissive of it because something is

1090
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,840
happening but nobody really knows what it is.

1091
01:03:43,079 --> 01:03:50,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there there are people on the planet

1092
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:53,920
who have a very materialistic view of the.

1093
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,679
Speaker 1: World and very three dimensional ass We like this.

1094
01:03:56,639 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 2: Three dimensional and then something happens if you're lucky, and

1095
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,360
there's a little bit of an opening and you start

1096
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:10,800
to make meaning of things that maybe didn't mean something

1097
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,599
to you earlier. An example I can think of is

1098
01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:18,000
when I talk about deathbed language. Some people get it.

1099
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,679
Some people are like, yeah, okay, whatever. If you went

1100
01:04:20,679 --> 01:04:24,519
to an emergency room, emergency department and said I feel

1101
01:04:24,519 --> 01:04:26,400
like I've got an elephant on my chest or i

1102
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,880
feel like I've got a you know, that means something

1103
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,559
to the people behind the desk, and they're going to

1104
01:04:31,599 --> 01:04:33,559
take you back and check your heart see if you're

1105
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,599
having a heart attack. Deathbed language is the same for

1106
01:04:36,639 --> 01:04:38,480
me when I hear somebody say lift me up, up up,

1107
01:04:38,559 --> 01:04:39,679
or how do I get out of here, I want

1108
01:04:39,679 --> 01:04:43,800
to go home. That is that makes sense to me.

1109
01:04:44,039 --> 01:04:50,800
Or somebody standing in the corner, or there's a blue angel. Yeah,

1110
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,440
all of that stuff in the realm of that, that

1111
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:56,920
all makes sense to me. And it's part of my

1112
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,199
I say constant. I think it is part of my

1113
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:03,800
constitution at this point. This is it's just part of

1114
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,639
how I see the world and how I experience dying.

1115
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:14,440
And this this field that people are in and yeah,

1116
01:05:14,519 --> 01:05:19,440
some people don't they're not in there. Did a doctor

1117
01:05:19,719 --> 01:05:22,840
say about this guy, he's not in there? And he

1118
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,039
did a sternal rub and he was looking in the

1119
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:29,280
guy's eyes, and I asked him not to do that again.

1120
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,400
I said, you know, he's here for a conscious dying experience.

1121
01:05:33,519 --> 01:05:35,559
He didn't want all of that. Please don't do that again.

1122
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:40,199
We got mad and eventually was able to come around

1123
01:05:41,079 --> 01:05:44,159
and that man who was dying in the bed, who

1124
01:05:44,239 --> 01:05:46,719
was so far away, and you know, this is all

1125
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,800
for it, he came back and opened his eyes and

1126
01:05:50,559 --> 01:05:53,960
it was thirty forty five seconds. But those two had

1127
01:05:54,079 --> 01:05:58,880
a moment. I was having a moment. I don't know

1128
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,840
what it took for that guy to come back. I mean,

1129
01:06:02,719 --> 01:06:06,599
I imagine it took a lot, a lot of energy

1130
01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:09,199
to come back to be able to open his eyes.

1131
01:06:09,199 --> 01:06:11,599
He couldn't speak, but he looked at it, but he

1132
01:06:11,679 --> 01:06:12,679
looked at him and there.

1133
01:06:12,639 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: Was there was something there.

1134
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,119
Speaker 2: It was I have goosebumps's hard. It was incredible. Did

1135
01:06:18,159 --> 01:06:24,280
it change him? I yeah, I think I imagine it did.

1136
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:26,960
In that moment, he was like.

1137
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: You're here. You know what's fascinating too, is that you know,

1138
01:06:31,199 --> 01:06:33,480
you're talking about people who are very in the material

1139
01:06:33,519 --> 01:06:36,480
and I get that in the material world and understand that.

1140
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,199
But all of us will have to deal with something

1141
01:06:41,239 --> 01:06:44,000
supernatural in our lives at one point or another, which

1142
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:47,960
is death, because it's beyond what we are now. It

1143
01:06:48,079 --> 01:06:51,400
is an unknown question. So it's whether if your parents

1144
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:53,559
die or something like that. And some people will see

1145
01:06:53,559 --> 01:06:56,159
that experience that you just explained and they just put

1146
01:06:56,199 --> 01:06:58,000
it down somewhere and I don't want to deal with it.

1147
01:06:58,039 --> 01:06:59,519
I don't want to think about it. But others, like

1148
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:03,480
you said, it's a crack, it's a slight opening that

1149
01:07:03,519 --> 01:07:06,760
will open their idea, their perspective of life. And some

1150
01:07:07,519 --> 01:07:10,639
doctors that we've had on the show, like doctor William Peters,

1151
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,000
he went all in, Yeah, because he was fascinated and

1152
01:07:14,119 --> 01:07:16,280
let's so let's bring let's bring his work into this

1153
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:20,280
a little bit. Shared death experiences. YEA, what is your

1154
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,960
have you had to share death experience and what can

1155
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:24,960
you explain to people what a shared death experiences as

1156
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:25,679
well as in near death.

1157
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:31,679
Speaker 2: So the way the way William talks about shared shared crossings,

1158
01:07:31,679 --> 01:07:36,679
shared death experiences are experiences that witnesses. You're at the

1159
01:07:36,679 --> 01:07:40,159
bedside with somebody who's dying, and you and the person

1160
01:07:40,199 --> 01:07:46,000
who's dying have an experience where an example that William

1161
01:07:46,159 --> 01:07:48,480
gives he was reading to a man. It's in hospice,

1162
01:07:49,719 --> 01:07:54,480
and William said, we were out of our bodies. He said,

1163
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,039
the guy who's in the bed is a peer and

1164
01:07:57,079 --> 01:07:58,960
I'm a peer, and we're looking at each other. The

1165
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,840
guy who's dying in the bed is he's up here.

1166
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,719
He's just grinning at me, and I look down. He's

1167
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:07,039
in the bed. I'm reading the book and I'm looking

1168
01:08:07,079 --> 01:08:08,599
here and looking here, and I'm thinking, what in the

1169
01:08:08,639 --> 01:08:12,199
world is happening. That's a shared crossing experience. People who

1170
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:19,600
shared death experience, you have an experience of crossing with

1171
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:25,239
your mother. Yeah, a woman talked to me about sitting

1172
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:29,079
beside her mother, having an experience of seeing her mother.

1173
01:08:29,159 --> 01:08:31,000
They were up out of their body. She could see

1174
01:08:31,039 --> 01:08:33,520
her mother and she was asking her mother where the

1175
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:35,880
dad was, and she could hear her dad in the distance.

1176
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:45,520
This was a shared experience. William's research expanded what shared

1177
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:48,680
death experiences included to include dreams.

1178
01:08:49,399 --> 01:08:51,680
Speaker 1: So I had dream with your brother.

1179
01:08:52,079 --> 01:08:53,520
Speaker 2: Dream with my brother would have been one.

1180
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:56,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've bought your brother brother had the same.

1181
01:08:56,199 --> 01:08:57,640
Speaker 2: My other brother had the same one exactly.

1182
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: So that's exactly the sample of that.

1183
01:09:00,359 --> 01:09:02,560
Speaker 2: And I really had not thought of that until right now,

1184
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,960
so thank you for that. I thought of one on

1185
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:09,000
the way over, a person who was at abode who

1186
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:13,279
was not going for whatever reason. I really didn't think

1187
01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:15,359
about it like that. But they were there in the

1188
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:18,359
bed and still for a long time. And I had

1189
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:21,800
a dream that they were in a parking garage, a

1190
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:25,439
cement parking garage, and I walked down and found them.

1191
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,840
They were facing this cement wall, and I found them

1192
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,880
and brought them out, and I don't remember where I

1193
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,479
took them, but it was out of the garage. And

1194
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:40,439
that was a shared death experience. There was some kind

1195
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:45,079
of hindrance for them. I wouldn't have thought that until

1196
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:50,199
I heard William talk about his work. I got to

1197
01:09:50,239 --> 01:09:53,720
talk to a person this week who will be accompanying

1198
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,119
their spouse with medical aid and dying in a state

1199
01:09:57,159 --> 01:09:58,880
that allows that. We don't have that in Texas.

1200
01:10:01,319 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

1201
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:08,720
and now back to the show.

1202
01:10:11,239 --> 01:10:19,319
Speaker 2: The spouse has been working with a Buddhist scholar and meditating,

1203
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:30,680
so this is not death is imminent, because the cocktail

1204
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:35,439
will be happening in the end of end of this year. Yeah,

1205
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:41,880
it days so offhandedly, the person I was talking to

1206
01:10:42,079 --> 01:10:47,439
said about their person who's dying, they're seeing people in

1207
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:51,920
their meditation who they don't know, and I got all excited.

1208
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,239
I kind of leaned into the computer and I said,

1209
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,199
tell me more, and she said, well, that's what it's

1210
01:10:56,199 --> 01:10:58,560
what I can tell you. They're just these people are

1211
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,600
starting to show up. And I said, that's what happens

1212
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,199
when somebody's dying in a hospice situation. So I am

1213
01:11:04,279 --> 01:11:11,399
fascinated that with this practice that there's some kind of

1214
01:11:11,399 --> 01:11:14,439
similarity there, even with medical aid and dying, and I

1215
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:17,399
know the person is dying, they're on their trajectory but

1216
01:11:17,399 --> 01:11:20,560
they're not supposed to go, supposed to go anytime soon.

1217
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 1: As you're talking about these that's fascinating. I think it

1218
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:28,760
is just that's fascinating. I haven't heard about the meditation

1219
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,319
stuff because that's generally in the West. It's not something

1220
01:11:31,359 --> 01:11:34,039
that right, it's done. I'd imagine in the east's probably

1221
01:11:34,119 --> 01:11:36,000
something that's done a little bit more than here in

1222
01:11:36,039 --> 01:11:40,119
the West. But what I find fascinating as you're talking,

1223
01:11:40,279 --> 01:11:45,000
like in my gears, are all the experiences, all the

1224
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,079
conversations I've had about this stuff, is that there seems

1225
01:11:48,119 --> 01:11:51,279
to be on a sole level and this is going

1226
01:11:51,359 --> 01:11:52,640
to go deep. So we're going to get into some

1227
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:53,760
deep weeds here.

1228
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:54,279
Speaker 2: I'm not scared.

1229
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: I know, I know you're not. I know, I definitely

1230
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:02,279
know you're not. You're definitely not. But on a soul level,

1231
01:12:02,399 --> 01:12:07,079
you know, if you believe in in reincarnation, in soul blueprints,

1232
01:12:07,119 --> 01:12:09,439
in soul contracts, that we come down here to learn

1233
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:12,600
something and this is our life, and that there's a

1234
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:15,600
sole group with you. There are certain souls that just

1235
01:12:16,199 --> 01:12:20,119
keep hanging around you and interacting with you in multiple life,

1236
01:12:20,199 --> 01:12:23,199
just play a different partners. Sometimes you're my wife, sometimes

1237
01:12:23,239 --> 01:12:25,239
I'm the wife. Sometimes you're my son, I'm So's daughter,

1238
01:12:25,319 --> 01:12:28,399
that kind of stuff. So if you believe that, let's

1239
01:12:28,399 --> 01:12:30,439
say I'm the daughter or I'm the son and you're

1240
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:34,840
the mom. Let's say and you're on your deathbed and

1241
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:36,800
I'm meditating, and all of a sudden, I start seeing

1242
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,520
Uncle Bob and Betty, and then I'm also seeing people

1243
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,399
I don't recognize who are dressed in fifties clothes, I

1244
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:46,000
don't know whatever. Yeah, something like that. That's a deep

1245
01:12:46,039 --> 01:12:50,560
connection because as a son and a daughter, or a

1246
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:52,239
mom and a dad or son, you know, I'm talking

1247
01:12:52,239 --> 01:12:55,119
about like a relative that that connection is so deep

1248
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:59,319
that in the death scenario, I'd imagine that connection would

1249
01:12:59,319 --> 01:13:01,279
stay deep if you're open to it. So something like

1250
01:13:01,279 --> 01:13:03,720
a meditation, if you're open to is the very key

1251
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:06,680
point of this. If you're open to it, you can

1252
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:12,399
actually really connect with your loved one in a deep way.

1253
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,119
Meditation is a great way of doing. Dreams is just

1254
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,800
another way. It's another opening. But meditation is a way

1255
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:20,840
for you to kind of control or at least have

1256
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:25,239
an opportunity open the space for something like that to happen,

1257
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:29,760
where you can actually be given kind of not only

1258
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,039
a glimpse at what's happening to your loved one, but

1259
01:13:33,079 --> 01:13:37,359
also give you peace. That is something that most don't

1260
01:13:37,399 --> 01:13:42,319
get when a loved one passes, generally speaking, but just

1261
01:13:42,359 --> 01:13:43,920
saying that, When you're saying that, I'm like, oh my God,

1262
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:46,119
that would give me a lot of peace if I

1263
01:13:46,159 --> 01:13:49,479
didn't already believe everything I believe in my experiences. But

1264
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:51,239
if I was scared, I'm like, it's mom going to

1265
01:13:51,239 --> 01:13:53,520
be okay? Like where's Mom going to go? And if

1266
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:57,479
you're meditating about it and you see things starting to

1267
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:04,079
come in, it's almost like you're opening up. Is now

1268
01:14:04,279 --> 01:14:08,920
now we'll get into the quantum world, which is the frequency. Yes,

1269
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,199
we're opening our vibration or our frequency up to a

1270
01:14:12,279 --> 01:14:15,520
level that can open and see these things. Hence, a

1271
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,960
shared death experience is they're now raising their frequency so

1272
01:14:19,039 --> 01:14:22,479
high that they're leaving this space. Masters have done this,

1273
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,840
All the masters on the wall have done this. They

1274
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:29,159
elevate their frequency to go beyond the third dimension. And

1275
01:14:29,199 --> 01:14:32,000
as a relative connected to that, you already have a

1276
01:14:32,079 --> 01:14:35,640
very deep vibrational connection to that person. So if you're

1277
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:40,800
able to raise your vibration or frequency through meditation, which happens,

1278
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,920
you'll be able to connect to that experience and get

1279
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:48,000
information that will be not only beneficial for the loved one,

1280
01:14:48,319 --> 01:14:50,560
but beneficial for you in this journey as well. Because

1281
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:53,159
this is a two part scenario. Does all of any

1282
01:14:53,199 --> 01:14:53,800
of that make sense?

1283
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:55,520
Speaker 2: And do you agree with any of it? It does

1284
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:57,960
make sense to me. One of the things I love

1285
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:02,239
about William's work is that he's got a protocol now

1286
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,960
where he works with the person who's dying and whatever

1287
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,600
family members want to work with them, and they do

1288
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:12,720
meditations and it's kind of like seeding the seeding the space.

1289
01:15:13,279 --> 01:15:14,880
So when the person is at the point where they

1290
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:16,880
can't talk anymore and they begin to leave their body,

1291
01:15:18,119 --> 01:15:24,399
the opportunity for some kind of connection, which might be telepathic,

1292
01:15:25,039 --> 01:15:29,960
which might be something a sign that we see in

1293
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:36,720
the physical, but butterflies or dreams, there's a likelihood that

1294
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:40,720
those kinds of things can happen. I like this because

1295
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:48,399
it gives the family from a psychotherapist being here present

1296
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,479
kind of conversation. It gives the family an opportunity to

1297
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:53,399
talk about the dying experience. This person is really going

1298
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:55,479
to die, and there's this kind of call and response.

1299
01:15:55,520 --> 01:16:03,399
He does about a memory. You find a shared memory

1300
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:06,520
and you tag it, and when I think of this memory,

1301
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:13,199
I'm going to know that you're okay. And so that experience,

1302
01:16:13,399 --> 01:16:18,159
along with meditating together, thinking about what dying is, thinking

1303
01:16:18,159 --> 01:16:20,560
about that I'm going to miss you, thinking about that

1304
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:23,760
I may come back and give you a sign. And

1305
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:26,399
then that sign happens, or some kind of experience happens,

1306
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,880
gives the person the people who are left, and gives

1307
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:34,600
the person who's dying opportunity to really be in the experience,

1308
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,720
to have some grief moved, some energy moved. And then

1309
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:42,520
if one of those experiences happen, there's a whole other

1310
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:49,560
level of I'm going to say goodness or it's not

1311
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:56,640
even goodness is beyond that, it's it's it's love conditions,

1312
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,159
it is it is love. So when the person and

1313
01:17:00,279 --> 01:17:04,039
their experience, I can think of that they did the protocol,

1314
01:17:04,319 --> 01:17:07,640
had the experience, and when the person died, the sister

1315
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:12,720
saw swirlies, some kind of swirlies, and it gave her

1316
01:17:13,039 --> 01:17:17,079
so much peace. And nobody else in the world needs

1317
01:17:17,119 --> 01:17:22,920
to believe or understand. But between those two, yes, it mattered,

1318
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,880
and that kind of that kind of experience is something

1319
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:32,640
that I hope more people will do. And I think

1320
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,199
about these these made deaths which I think are going

1321
01:17:35,279 --> 01:17:38,880
to happen more in our country. I think that the

1322
01:17:39,319 --> 01:17:42,479
medical aid and dying people are able to make a

1323
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,000
choice about when they want to leave, and so there's

1324
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:52,359
more planning. There can be thoughtfulness around meditation and these

1325
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:53,720
kinds of things.

1326
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 1: It's a whole other that's a whole other podcast to

1327
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,439
talk about, but I agree with you. I agree with you.

1328
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:05,319
Have you in your work run across someone who's passing

1329
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:12,159
who has such a strong programming in them about what

1330
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:16,760
hell is, what heaven is, and that they are so

1331
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:20,720
terrified of dying because they were bad, whether that might

1332
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:24,239
be a prisoner in jail or someone who was abusive

1333
01:18:24,279 --> 01:18:26,600
to their family or something like that, and they're like

1334
01:18:27,319 --> 01:18:29,399
at the end, they're like, oh my god, am I

1335
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:32,079
going to go to the other place? Sure, what's your

1336
01:18:32,079 --> 01:18:35,000
experience with that and how and does that transition into

1337
01:18:35,079 --> 01:18:38,560
a peaceful place or sometimes they just need to go

1338
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:41,000
through that, like in a near death experience. There have

1339
01:18:41,119 --> 01:18:44,760
been hellish experiences. They're not often, but they do happen.

1340
01:18:45,239 --> 01:18:47,920
And the people I've spoken to said I needed to

1341
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:50,000
go through that because I believe I needed to go

1342
01:18:50,039 --> 01:18:52,840
through that interesting I needed. I believe that I had

1343
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:55,600
to go through seven days in my mind of a

1344
01:18:55,800 --> 01:19:00,800
dystopian hell where demons and lower energy beings were torturing

1345
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:05,640
me until I finally said God help me. Yeah, Jesus

1346
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:07,079
helped me, or something like that, and then all of

1347
01:19:07,119 --> 01:19:10,039
a sudden, a light shows up. Everyone scatters and they're saved.

1348
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:12,840
But they had to make the decision, but they had

1349
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:15,720
to go through it. And then when they came back,

1350
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:17,640
they're like, it was all bs. There is no hell,

1351
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:19,880
there is no this. It was just something I needed

1352
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:22,039
to go through because I believe I needed to go

1353
01:19:22,119 --> 01:19:24,199
through it. So what's your experience with that.

1354
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 2: I have seen people who struggle to get there's a

1355
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:35,279
point where people aren't able to talk anymore, and there's

1356
01:19:35,279 --> 01:19:36,680
a lot of mumbling, but there can be a lot

1357
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:43,680
of moving and we call it terminal agitation. But for

1358
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:47,479
some people, there's no medicine, no amount of medicine that's

1359
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:52,760
going to keep that angstiness and that movement and that

1360
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:56,439
agitation away. And when that happens. I have a doctor

1361
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:59,079
friend named Heather, and she talks about that. That's how

1362
01:19:59,119 --> 01:20:02,039
I know somebody's in an act sistential crisis. There's something

1363
01:20:02,079 --> 01:20:05,439
in them that has to get worked out, and I

1364
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:08,079
give them, give them as much medicine as I can

1365
01:20:08,159 --> 01:20:12,319
give them, and we circle them and hold them until

1366
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:15,399
it ebbs. And sometimes it takes several days for it

1367
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:20,680
to ebb. I don't know. I don't know what to do.

1368
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:24,399
There are people who would say calling a priest and

1369
01:20:26,039 --> 01:20:31,039
call you seeing and you there's I don't know. I

1370
01:20:31,039 --> 01:20:34,159
don't know how that works. That's interesting, and I've seen it.

1371
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 1: Do they go? Have you seen them leave like that

1372
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:39,760
with that kind of energy in them? Like oh my god,

1373
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:42,239
Oh my god, I'm going to or is it like

1374
01:20:43,039 --> 01:20:47,920
finally am it's I'm good. We'll be right back after

1375
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:54,000
a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.

1376
01:20:56,399 --> 01:21:00,560
Speaker 2: I have not seen I've seen one time where a

1377
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:05,039
person has left and nobody was comfortable. Nobody in that

1378
01:21:05,119 --> 01:21:07,119
room was comfortable when they left that way it was

1379
01:21:07,399 --> 01:21:11,840
it was, it was awful, and they they were suffering,

1380
01:21:12,359 --> 01:21:15,399
and we somehow imagined they were suffering. Maybe they were,

1381
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:17,199
Maybe they weren't. It sure did looked like they were.

1382
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:18,520
Speaker 1: And you feel it.

1383
01:21:19,239 --> 01:21:22,119
Speaker 2: I yeah, well you seem like a very empathetic person

1384
01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:23,760
most days.

1385
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:27,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you pick up on people's energies, Yeah, pretty pretty easily.

1386
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:29,399
So you can feel it out and you walk in

1387
01:21:29,399 --> 01:21:29,840
a room.

1388
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 2: You're like, oh yeah, and I don't. Yes, yes, And

1389
01:21:35,199 --> 01:21:39,439
most of the time, when somebody says to me, somebody struggling,

1390
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:43,880
I walk in and it's that's not my experience. My experiences,

1391
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:45,920
they're trying to leave. It's not a it's not a

1392
01:21:46,399 --> 01:21:51,359
there's not a fight. And I think because I've seen

1393
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:55,640
so many people, and most people see two, three or

1394
01:21:55,640 --> 01:22:00,479
four people die in their whole life, and that's their image.

1395
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:04,479
Whatever it is they see, that's their image. So there's

1396
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:08,399
just such a continuum about what bodies do and what

1397
01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:14,199
I imagine spiritual doing in the body to release and stillness

1398
01:22:14,239 --> 01:22:16,199
and movement and sound and all of that.

1399
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:23,319
Speaker 1: So in your experience as well, to these emotions or

1400
01:22:23,399 --> 01:22:27,399
guilt or things like that come up. I mean, obviously

1401
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,079
when they're at a stage they can still talk. Yeah,

1402
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:34,319
is there like oh my god, I see I see

1403
01:22:34,399 --> 01:22:37,600
Aunt Betty and I used to beat Aunt Betty, you know, like,

1404
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:39,920
or I used to have some sort of I did

1405
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:42,159
something bad to that person, or I did something bad.

1406
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:47,319
It's almost like Christmas Carol, you know, Marley shows up

1407
01:22:47,319 --> 01:22:49,560
with the chains, you know, and it's like, oh god,

1408
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:53,119
I'm looking at what I did to these people, and

1409
01:22:53,159 --> 01:22:55,279
it's their projection of them. Do you see that?

1410
01:22:56,239 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 2: Every now and again. I think the thing with that

1411
01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:04,720
is there, when something like that is said out loud,

1412
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:08,119
it's got to be said to a person who the

1413
01:23:08,199 --> 01:23:15,840
person who's saying it trusts enough to hold it and

1414
01:23:15,319 --> 01:23:20,960
and they won't be judged or they won't be left

1415
01:23:21,239 --> 01:23:28,119
or abandoned or whatever it is. So people would come

1416
01:23:28,199 --> 01:23:34,279
into abode and there are stories that people tell for

1417
01:23:34,319 --> 01:23:40,960
the last time, and I would watch who among the

1418
01:23:41,039 --> 01:23:44,560
volunteers or the staff would connect with that person and

1419
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:46,800
what story was told for the last time to that person.

1420
01:23:47,399 --> 01:23:49,000
And there were a couple of those people who would

1421
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:53,600
get those kind of those really hard stories because they

1422
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:55,199
needed to get it off them, They needed to get

1423
01:23:55,239 --> 01:24:00,840
it off their chest, off their heart. And uh. And

1424
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:03,359
those there are two guys I'm thinking of in particular,

1425
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:05,880
and they can handle it, they could do it, and.

1426
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:09,720
Speaker 1: They can sense that. Yeah, there's so many things here

1427
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:12,640
that there's no Yeah, it's hard to wrap your head

1428
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:15,960
around because it's not tangible. None of it, none of

1429
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:18,920
it's none of the thing you can hold on to. Martha.

1430
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:20,119
I have to ask you, how the hell do you

1431
01:24:20,159 --> 01:24:20,439
do this?

1432
01:24:21,199 --> 01:24:22,119
Speaker 2: Oh? I love it?

1433
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1434
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 2: I think what I love about it is the intimacy

1435
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:30,199
of it. I mean, you and I have had a

1436
01:24:30,199 --> 01:24:37,079
conversation today that is pretty powerful and pretty deep. And

1437
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:43,439
that's what I get to do. I it's fast, you

1438
01:24:44,239 --> 01:24:53,560
you're and it's hard to heart. And when somebody's ready

1439
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:57,560
and we can both sit in that space together, there's

1440
01:24:57,680 --> 01:25:01,279
a I will say it energy on I know it.

1441
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:08,840
There's a there's a feeling and uh, that feeling is

1442
01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:17,439
nourishing and it is peaceful and enlivening and I like it.

1443
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:24,560
And so to be able to be in spaces where

1444
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:29,239
other people might have a hard time, it's it. It

1445
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:32,119
just this is this is just what I'm built for.

1446
01:25:32,319 --> 01:25:35,479
There are other places I can't be, there's places I

1447
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:39,079
would not want to be in a million years, But this,

1448
01:25:39,079 --> 01:25:43,239
this space is it works for me.

1449
01:25:43,319 --> 01:25:46,039
Speaker 1: If you were built in a spiritual factory for this work.

1450
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:49,319
Speaker 2: I stood in that line before I came in.

1451
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:52,119
Speaker 1: You're like, I'll do that. It seems that's gonna that

1452
01:25:52,159 --> 01:25:53,359
seems interesting. I'll do it.

1453
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is none no, no. Dying is the

1454
01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:59,880
same way of these little things along the way, but

1455
01:26:01,279 --> 01:26:05,319
all the nuances of it and what you'll learn and love.

1456
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:07,119
Speaker 1: I have to ask you a whole question.

1457
01:26:07,199 --> 01:26:07,880
Speaker 2: Oh, let's hear it.

1458
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 1: I have to ask you a whole question. So on

1459
01:26:10,039 --> 01:26:11,079
a soul level.

1460
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,640
Speaker 2: You're so funny, Okay, on a soul level.

1461
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:20,279
Speaker 1: On a soul level, this kind of work is very giving.

1462
01:26:21,359 --> 01:26:25,880
You are you are helping many, many people throughout the

1463
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:30,279
course of your life. Yeah, you're providing a service very

1464
01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:36,319
much like a nurse would, a doctor would. Even spiritual

1465
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:40,439
leaders and teachers like that. They they're more so with

1466
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:43,840
death though, like it's constant. It's like it's like we

1467
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:47,279
were saying, it's recession proof. Like you you're not gonna

1468
01:26:47,279 --> 01:26:50,079
lose your job anytime soon. It's going to always be,

1469
01:26:50,239 --> 01:26:53,239
you know, unfortunately you always have work to do. But

1470
01:26:54,079 --> 01:26:57,560
it's an extreme version of giving. In my in a

1471
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,359
normal life, a normal life, people don't give this much

1472
01:27:00,399 --> 01:27:05,640
on a daily basis. So this is an extremely giving scenario.

1473
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:07,279
I mean, you give to your family, you give to

1474
01:27:07,359 --> 01:27:10,560
your work and things, but this is different. You are

1475
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:14,000
in a very different stage in this humans or this

1476
01:27:14,119 --> 01:27:18,479
soul's experience and you're helping them again and again and again,

1477
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:23,680
so on a soul level. If you believe in reincarnation, yes,

1478
01:27:25,199 --> 01:27:28,600
why do you think this is the life you chose?

1479
01:27:29,039 --> 01:27:33,319
In this life? Is it? Is it a karmic thing

1480
01:27:33,399 --> 01:27:35,840
that you have to give back because I did a

1481
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:38,359
whole lot of other stuff, or is it that like, no,

1482
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:41,079
I want this is what I want to do because

1483
01:27:41,119 --> 01:27:44,039
of out of love and out of this or I

1484
01:27:44,119 --> 01:27:46,680
need to learn about death and this is going to

1485
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,359
teach this to me. I mean, I told you we're

1486
01:27:49,399 --> 01:27:50,319
going to get in the weaks here.

1487
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:53,319
Speaker 2: So when you said I want to learn about death,

1488
01:27:53,359 --> 01:27:56,399
I could feel some emotion come up. And so that

1489
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:00,960
makes me like there's something in my body that resonates

1490
01:28:01,199 --> 01:28:05,399
with that I need to learn about that I have

1491
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:12,319
wondered from this life. Jim died. I didn't know what

1492
01:28:12,359 --> 01:28:13,800
to do with that. I didn't know what to do

1493
01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:17,159
with my family. And I have imagined I've been on

1494
01:28:17,199 --> 01:28:22,680
this path of sorting out his death and being in

1495
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:25,720
relationship with him after his death. What does all that mean?

1496
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:31,680
And I have thought about past lives and have had

1497
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:35,079
some conversation as one does with a medium here and

1498
01:28:35,119 --> 01:28:38,520
there with a past life. Yeah.

1499
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:40,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're fascinating.

1500
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:47,560
Speaker 2: They are fascinating. One of them told me I was

1501
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:49,920
a nun in some life, and that makes sense.

1502
01:28:50,439 --> 01:28:53,760
Speaker 1: Oh you have none energy. Oh my gosh. Not in

1503
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,000
a bad way, not in a ruler, not in a

1504
01:28:56,039 --> 01:28:58,880
ruler way. But when I think of a nun, I

1505
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:02,199
think of a lot of peace. Yeah, except if you're

1506
01:29:02,199 --> 01:29:05,760
a Catholic. None in the eighties, that's a whole other conversation. Yeah,

1507
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:08,960
I had a different experiences with that's in the eighties.

1508
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:13,520
Speaker 2: I've heard tales my goodness, my goodness.

1509
01:29:13,159 --> 01:29:15,119
Speaker 1: But that but that makes that makes sense.

1510
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 2: And I worked with children for a long time, and

1511
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:19,479
I've never I don't have my own children in this

1512
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:22,319
life and in the past life, in the you know,

1513
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:24,479
in this life. In this life. I worked with children

1514
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:28,600
for ran a children's breevement center for seven years. So

1515
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:30,439
I was with kids all the time who were bereaved.

1516
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:34,720
And a woman would see the psychic and she said,

1517
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:36,560
who are all these people around you? And I said,

1518
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:37,960
I have no idea, and she said, what is it

1519
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,479
with these kids? And so I told her a little

1520
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:42,600
bit about what I do, and she talked to me

1521
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:45,159
about a past life where I had a bunch of

1522
01:29:45,239 --> 01:29:48,840
kids and some of my kids died and then I

1523
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:55,640
ended up dying under a horse, and I don't know,

1524
01:29:56,159 --> 01:29:58,079
you know, I heard that and I took it in

1525
01:29:58,119 --> 01:30:00,399
and I thought, okay, whatever, and there was more to

1526
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:03,720
it than that. But I have wondered.

1527
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:09,119
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

1528
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:14,039
and now back to the show.

1529
01:30:16,239 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 2: I have wondered about what past influences land now and

1530
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:23,039
I don't know, and I don't think about very much

1531
01:30:23,159 --> 01:30:28,840
because I asked it's kind of fun to think about.

1532
01:30:29,199 --> 01:30:32,359
Speaker 1: It's, well, it's interesting, what I mean. Again, I live

1533
01:30:32,359 --> 01:30:36,119
in this world, so yeah, yeah, constantly in this, in

1534
01:30:36,159 --> 01:30:39,159
this these kind of conversations, so I obviously do a

1535
01:30:39,159 --> 01:30:40,239
lot of self reflection on.

1536
01:30:40,399 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 2: Like what's what did what do you think? What's what's

1537
01:30:43,039 --> 01:30:43,600
got you here?

1538
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:47,319
Speaker 1: Oh that's a long story for another time. I know

1539
01:30:47,399 --> 01:30:49,960
exactly why I'm hearing what I'm doing and the reasons

1540
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:51,600
why I'm doing most of it, not all of it.

1541
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:54,840
I know all of it. But like a perfect example,

1542
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:56,520
I was talking to somebody the other day and they

1543
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,199
asked me, what did you want to be when you

1544
01:30:59,359 --> 01:31:00,880
grew up? Like when you're a kid, like you said,

1545
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,079
you want to be a vet. So we all have those,

1546
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:06,439
you know, the early ones. So the first one I

1547
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:09,520
can remember, there's two in my early stages of my life.

1548
01:31:10,079 --> 01:31:13,079
One was an astronaut because I wanted to see space.

1549
01:31:13,119 --> 01:31:15,199
I don't know why, I just wanted to explore. Yeah.

1550
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:18,800
Second one was a priest, okay, because I saw a

1551
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:20,880
priest walk in on first in first grade, and I

1552
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:24,640
saw the power and the prestige and the respect they might.

1553
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:27,279
That seems cool. And when I told my mom that,

1554
01:31:27,399 --> 01:31:31,920
She's like, oh Jesus. And then the third one was

1555
01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:38,359
a filmmaker. So you combine the three and explore. Yes,

1556
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:42,880
a religious leader of some sort or teacher or you know,

1557
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:46,880
someone was interested in spirituality, and a filmmaker to tell stories. Yeah.

1558
01:31:47,359 --> 01:31:50,479
So I was like, ooh, that that makes And when

1559
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:52,159
someone said I was like, oh God, that's right. That

1560
01:31:52,319 --> 01:31:54,640
does make a lot of sense, because it's really those

1561
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:57,279
are the only three. I'd never had any other. I

1562
01:31:57,359 --> 01:32:00,279
never had any other inclinations other than like business. I

1563
01:32:00,359 --> 01:32:02,680
like business, I like building businesses and things like that.

1564
01:32:04,319 --> 01:32:06,840
But I'd never there was no other career other than

1565
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:09,319
those three that I've ever come into my mind, Like

1566
01:32:09,319 --> 01:32:10,640
It took me forever to figure out if I want

1567
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:13,000
to be a filmmaker. And I only learned that because

1568
01:32:13,039 --> 01:32:15,880
I worked at a video store for five years and

1569
01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:17,039
then when I got out of high school, I'm like,

1570
01:32:17,039 --> 01:32:19,920
I got I do something like there's three thousand vhss

1571
01:32:19,960 --> 01:32:21,680
around me currently. I like movies, so I'm going to

1572
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:22,239
be a director.

1573
01:32:22,399 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1574
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:24,319
Speaker 1: It was that simple. It was like, all right, I'm

1575
01:32:24,319 --> 01:32:26,399
gonna be i'n go to the filmmaking yeah, you know,

1576
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:28,399
which was a very steady job obviously, and you can

1577
01:32:28,439 --> 01:32:33,119
make millions back then at all. My father's like, what,

1578
01:32:33,359 --> 01:32:35,000
she's just gonna run off with a circus. I'm like,

1579
01:32:35,119 --> 01:32:40,239
I am. I am uh and look when I circus,

1580
01:32:40,399 --> 01:32:41,760
I've created.

1581
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:43,560
Speaker 2: My own, my own beautiful circus.

1582
01:32:44,079 --> 01:32:48,159
Speaker 1: No, thank you. But I'm always fascinated about that because

1583
01:32:48,239 --> 01:32:52,760
if you start looking at it from a cosmic soul purpose,

1584
01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:58,359
you know, do you believe that there are people who

1585
01:32:58,439 --> 01:33:01,560
come into your life who are there for a reason.

1586
01:33:02,359 --> 01:33:04,560
It sounds to me, and I'm just gonna I'm gonna

1587
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:07,560
be the psychotherapist here for a second for it. It

1588
01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:09,720
sounds to me that your brother came into your life

1589
01:33:10,199 --> 01:33:14,319
and he was a motivating factor into your life's work. Yeah,

1590
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:17,079
I mean there's just I mean you you can't deny that.

1591
01:33:17,119 --> 01:33:21,720
It's like, that's exactly what happened. Yes, So to me

1592
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:25,119
on a soul level, you guys were talking up in

1593
01:33:25,159 --> 01:33:27,880
the cloud somewhere wherever you're at, and you're like, in

1594
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:29,600
this life, I want to learn about death. Hey, I'm

1595
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:31,479
going to help you with this one. Yeah. I'll come

1596
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,239
down here as your brother this time. Last time we

1597
01:33:33,239 --> 01:33:34,560
were married, but this time we're going to come down

1598
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,560
as a brother and sister, and I'm gonna be I'm

1599
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:38,840
gonna come ahead of you, so I'm gonna learn a

1600
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:41,119
whole lot more and I'm gonna get things prepared for you.

1601
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:44,079
And then on my exit point, this is going to

1602
01:33:44,199 --> 01:33:46,520
spawn your entire life work. And I'm going to do

1603
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:49,680
that for you. And I don't want you to cry.

1604
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:53,680
I'm not going to cry, but but I feel that.

1605
01:33:54,119 --> 01:33:55,439
So it's so much love there.

1606
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:56,640
Speaker 2: I feel it too.

1607
01:33:56,800 --> 01:33:59,600
Speaker 1: It's so much love and it's so beautiful and we

1608
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:02,720
all do that. All of our families play those parts

1609
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:04,880
in different things. I'm just using your brother as an

1610
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:07,880
example because it really has spawned your entires life work.

1611
01:34:08,359 --> 01:34:11,439
And I've heard that again and again from people like

1612
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:13,680
my mom died and did this, or I had my

1613
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:17,680
sibling died early on and it changed me, you know,

1614
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:21,159
all these things, and it just seems like, yeah, I'm

1615
01:34:21,159 --> 01:34:23,279
going to do that for you in this life, you know.

1616
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:25,680
And that's and this is a positive one. I also

1617
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:28,880
believe on the negative side as well, where people are like,

1618
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:30,920
you know, I need to learn about this, I'm like, well,

1619
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:33,119
I'll be the a hole to come down and do

1620
01:34:33,159 --> 01:34:36,520
that for you, and I'll have to learn a whole

1621
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:39,840
lot of stuff along that side as well. You did

1622
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:40,720
that make sense to you?

1623
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:44,720
Speaker 2: It does? It does, And I like that meaning making

1624
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:49,520
as I've gotten older, because it gives more elbowroom to

1625
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:52,359
breathe and think about life in a different way and

1626
01:34:53,119 --> 01:34:58,680
to not create more suffering for myself. It's good.

1627
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:01,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's the equivalent of a soul. On the

1628
01:35:01,359 --> 01:35:03,520
other side, like, you know, I've never been famous. I

1629
01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:05,920
want to know what that's like. And they come in,

1630
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:07,520
they're like, Okay, how famous do you want to be?

1631
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:10,199
Do you want to be like local community theater famous

1632
01:35:10,279 --> 01:35:11,760
or do you want to be Tom Cruise famous? Like

1633
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,720
where do you want to go? And then you go

1634
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:16,680
you know, Tom Cruse famous would be interesting.

1635
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:20,520
Speaker 2: Like all right, buckle up, buckle up, butter Cup.

1636
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 1: Where are you going to be? Oh is it going

1637
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:23,800
to be Bollywood or is it going to be Hollywood?

1638
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:26,720
And what year are you going in? Like okay, and

1639
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:28,479
like that's when I want to come in, and then

1640
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:29,920
all of a sudden, like, oh, this is not what

1641
01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:32,439
it's all cracked up to be. I needed to learn

1642
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:34,880
what that was like other ones. Other people come in

1643
01:35:34,960 --> 01:35:36,520
like I need to learn what addictions like I need

1644
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:38,560
to go over that, or I need to learn what

1645
01:35:39,039 --> 01:35:41,000
this pain is, or I need to know what it's

1646
01:35:41,039 --> 01:35:43,960
like to just not worry and come in rich.

1647
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:45,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then.

1648
01:35:45,239 --> 01:35:46,720
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, well you don't worry about this, but

1649
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:48,199
you got other things you got to deal with. So

1650
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:53,960
it's just grand tapestry. It is of the human experience,

1651
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:57,079
of the soul's experience, and we haven't even gotten into

1652
01:35:57,079 --> 01:36:00,319
parallel lives and multiverses and all that stuff that makes

1653
01:36:00,319 --> 01:36:02,520
my head hurt when I start hearing about that stuff,

1654
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:05,000
which makes sense to me, I understand on a quantum level.

1655
01:36:05,039 --> 01:36:10,359
On a Vedic you know, the Vedic, the Vedic teachers

1656
01:36:10,359 --> 01:36:14,279
of the past spoke about multiverses, and how many you know,

1657
01:36:14,319 --> 01:36:17,199
there's multiple lives, multiple not only multiple lives, but multiple

1658
01:36:17,279 --> 01:36:20,199
versions of this conversation happening right now in this universe

1659
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:22,520
as a human. Let's not even talk about what else.

1660
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:26,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, that makes my head hurt.

1661
01:36:26,199 --> 01:36:28,279
Speaker 1: It makes my head hurt too, because it's it's it's

1662
01:36:28,279 --> 01:36:30,000
not something in our heads capable.

1663
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:31,840
Speaker 2: Of comprehensive Yeah, yeah, I get that.

1664
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:34,079
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard the concept that everything is happening

1665
01:36:34,159 --> 01:36:34,720
all at once?

1666
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:36,319
Speaker 2: Everything? Yes, I have that.

1667
01:36:36,279 --> 01:36:38,199
Speaker 1: There is no past, there's no future, that we're all

1668
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:41,319
all our lives are happening at the same exact time. Yeah,

1669
01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:49,239
that that's okay, sure, sure, why not? Why not?

1670
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1671
01:36:50,159 --> 01:36:52,439
Speaker 1: The best example of that, though, I've heard, because I've

1672
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:56,800
asked this question some mystics and some big spiritual teachers,

1673
01:36:57,199 --> 01:36:59,479
and I go explain this as a layman, like I'm

1674
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:03,439
a child, explain that concept that just told you and

1675
01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:05,720
what I've gotten, and that this one's a really great one.

1676
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:10,239
It's like, well, you have a TV, right, Yeah, It's like, well,

1677
01:37:10,279 --> 01:37:12,319
when you're watching a TV, what show are you watching?

1678
01:37:12,359 --> 01:37:15,920
I'm like, oh, I don't know, watching south Park? Great? Well,

1679
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:18,479
you know the Simpsons are on another channel. You know,

1680
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:21,039
reruns on Friends are on another channel. Oh right, you

1681
01:37:21,079 --> 01:37:23,800
know big Bangs on another channel? Oh great, Escape from

1682
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:27,119
the Fifties is on another channel. There's a thousand channels

1683
01:37:27,159 --> 01:37:29,960
going on and they're all happening at this mode. But

1684
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:33,079
what are you tuned into? I was like, oh, yeah,

1685
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:34,760
I can wrap my head around.

1686
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:35,680
Speaker 2: That makes sense to me.

1687
01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:37,800
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, isn't that a great analogy?

1688
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:40,760
Speaker 2: It is a great analogy because it's all happening right now,

1689
01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:43,439
the signals are all going out, Yes, And where are

1690
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:46,239
you tuning yourself to? What are you tuning yourself?

1691
01:37:46,359 --> 01:37:47,720
Speaker 1: And if you want to take that analogy to the

1692
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:50,960
next level, is like, well, on YouTube, how many videos

1693
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,760
are uploaded on a daily basis? Well, they're all playing,

1694
01:37:53,920 --> 01:37:56,399
They're all up there. What are you tuning into? So

1695
01:37:56,439 --> 01:38:00,600
those are all different lives, all different experiences, all different entertainment,

1696
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,520
if you will, and they're all at the same time

1697
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:07,399
out there being played billions and billions of times a day.

1698
01:38:07,720 --> 01:38:11,520
So that's a and that's and even the speck of

1699
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:12,119
the universe.

1700
01:38:12,479 --> 01:38:15,199
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

1701
01:38:16,239 --> 01:38:19,760
Speaker 1: Martha, this has been so fascinating. I absolutely love you.

1702
01:38:20,119 --> 01:38:21,920
It's been great talking to you.

1703
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:25,399
Speaker 2: You are a delight. Look at that laugh. I told you,

1704
01:38:25,439 --> 01:38:27,039
I've been listening to you last couple of days. It's

1705
01:38:27,079 --> 01:38:28,359
really fun. Your laugh is great.

1706
01:38:28,520 --> 01:38:30,960
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. People think it's fake, but please tell

1707
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:33,319
them about time I'm fake at least people like, he

1708
01:38:33,359 --> 01:38:35,960
can't be that happy, he can't be always laughing. I'm like,

1709
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:37,000
I laugh all the time.

1710
01:38:37,199 --> 01:38:41,399
Speaker 2: So I did it. I did a meditation before.

1711
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:43,680
Speaker 1: Did an Betty or Uncle Bob Juwan know it was?

1712
01:38:44,079 --> 01:38:47,319
Speaker 2: It's it's a it's a way to attune that I

1713
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:49,319
learn learned from a friend of mine to attune to

1714
01:38:49,399 --> 01:38:52,319
a situation. I'm going to be in and you know,

1715
01:38:52,399 --> 01:38:56,399
it's pull pull you up in. And sometimes when I

1716
01:38:56,439 --> 01:38:58,800
pull the person up there kind of like it's a

1717
01:38:58,960 --> 01:39:00,920
it's a square. Sometimes in the back of the box.

1718
01:39:01,279 --> 01:39:02,960
You were right in the front of the box with

1719
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:06,840
this big that face that is the face, and I

1720
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:09,079
I did it twice and you came in the same

1721
01:39:09,079 --> 01:39:11,199
way both times, and I'm not this is going to

1722
01:39:11,239 --> 01:39:11,880
be interesting.

1723
01:39:12,079 --> 01:39:15,359
Speaker 1: Oh really, you kind of you were testing the waters

1724
01:39:15,399 --> 01:39:16,399
to see where it was going.

1725
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:25,039
Speaker 2: I think it's if it's imagination and seeing this this

1726
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:32,800
uh happy seemingly connected guy in this in this box

1727
01:39:33,359 --> 01:39:37,439
and thinking that I was going to get to spend

1728
01:39:37,439 --> 01:39:42,039
some time and doing my best to be grounded and

1729
01:39:42,079 --> 01:39:44,760
connected and then what could we co create together? And

1730
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:47,439
that's it's a it's a nice way to move into

1731
01:39:47,439 --> 01:39:48,640
an interview. So thank you.

1732
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:52,000
Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome, thank you so much. I appreciate that.

1733
01:39:52,119 --> 01:39:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this so this, yes, this is all real.

1734
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:58,680
Speaker 1: This is all ready. Yes. I had someone come to

1735
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:01,840
our event and walk up to my wife and she's

1736
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:05,039
They're like, is he really? This? Is he really? Who

1737
01:40:05,119 --> 01:40:08,680
he is? I flew from God knows thousands of miles?

1738
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:10,800
She said, I just wanted to make sure he was real.

1739
01:40:11,319 --> 01:40:13,600
Oh wow, And I was fascinated. But she didn't ask

1740
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:16,640
me like my wife would say, no, you should run.

1741
01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:21,680
But she's like, no, that's he laughed, like that. He's

1742
01:40:22,199 --> 01:40:25,239
happy generally all the time. I mean, don't get me wrong,

1743
01:40:25,399 --> 01:40:27,680
I am you're human. I'm a human, and I have

1744
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:34,199
children teenagers and that as well, So of course I'm

1745
01:40:34,199 --> 01:40:36,880
not always happy, but I generally am. You know, I

1746
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:41,000
do have a good time with life. I try. I try. Yeah,

1747
01:40:41,239 --> 01:40:43,760
we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

1748
01:40:47,399 --> 01:40:48,640
and now back to the show.

1749
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:53,159
Speaker 2: Has it always been that way? Or did you is it?

1750
01:40:53,159 --> 01:40:55,960
It's yeah, yeah, that's my experience too.

1751
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:59,239
Speaker 1: He's angry. For the youngest time, I was like, why

1752
01:40:59,319 --> 01:41:01,319
is in my film where we were going, Oh my god,

1753
01:41:01,359 --> 01:41:03,359
I want to go It wasn't going where I wanted

1754
01:41:03,399 --> 01:41:05,600
to go. Well, I was angry, and I was bitter

1755
01:41:06,399 --> 01:41:09,640
for a good decade. I'll be honest with I mean, yeah,

1756
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:11,560
there was elements of this. I was always a class clown.

1757
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:14,199
I was always joking, and that's who I am. But

1758
01:41:14,680 --> 01:41:18,560
the I was really bitter because I would help other

1759
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:23,800
filmmakers fulfill their dreams and I was saving their movies

1760
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:26,680
and I couldn't get one of my movies off the

1761
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:29,199
ground the way I wanted to. So it was really interesting.

1762
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:32,880
But I don't know, I can't remember the moment that

1763
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,960
it clicked off, but I think it was obviously when

1764
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:39,239
I started meditating about eight years seven eight years ago,

1765
01:41:39,279 --> 01:41:45,079
I started meditating. Meditating, not little two minute meditations, no, no, no.

1766
01:41:45,239 --> 01:41:48,479
And when I started to meditate, I started to calm

1767
01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:51,159
a lot more. My life became and my wife saw it.

1768
01:41:51,359 --> 01:41:52,600
She was like, I don't know what you're doing, but

1769
01:41:52,720 --> 01:41:56,520
keep doing it because she saw it. She's she's the clo.

1770
01:41:56,880 --> 01:42:00,359
Your spouse is the closest observer.

1771
01:42:00,079 --> 01:42:00,880
Speaker 2: Of your life.

1772
01:42:01,039 --> 01:42:05,079
Speaker 1: They're the witness more so than your parents. Yes, your

1773
01:42:05,239 --> 01:42:10,159
your spouse is your witness because they're with you generally

1774
01:42:10,399 --> 01:42:12,439
all the time. They see the good, the bad, and

1775
01:42:12,479 --> 01:42:17,199
the ugly all the time. And she felt it. My

1776
01:42:17,319 --> 01:42:21,800
kids actually felt it as well, and they just so

1777
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:25,760
I've been become a much more chilled dude over the years.

1778
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:26,960
When I was a young man.

1779
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:30,279
Speaker 2: For Jesus, yeah, oh god, we evolved.

1780
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was piss and vinegar boy jokey. But piss

1781
01:42:35,000 --> 01:42:37,000
and joke jokey. You know.

1782
01:42:37,319 --> 01:42:37,600
Speaker 2: I am.

1783
01:42:37,680 --> 01:42:40,159
Speaker 1: I am a gen xer from the eighties. So I

1784
01:42:40,239 --> 01:42:43,239
watched a lot of movies and I the witch will

1785
01:42:43,279 --> 01:42:47,199
pop off. But it was something, Yeah, that was. It

1786
01:42:47,239 --> 01:42:49,680
wasn't always there. It was, And as you get older,

1787
01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:51,239
you start to kind of let go of a lot

1788
01:42:51,239 --> 01:42:54,920
of a lot of things that don't matter anymore because

1789
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:57,239
at the end of at the end of the day,

1790
01:42:57,479 --> 01:42:59,680
none of it really does in the scope of what

1791
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:03,000
we give it importance to it. I'll end our conversation

1792
01:43:03,199 --> 01:43:09,279
with Alan Watts. Okay, I love Alan Watts, And he

1793
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:12,119
said this, and it was so profound and I'm going

1794
01:43:12,199 --> 01:43:15,239
to paraphrase, but he goes, in one hundred years, there'll

1795
01:43:15,239 --> 01:43:19,520
be strangers living in your house. Anyone who remembers you

1796
01:43:20,159 --> 01:43:25,359
will be dead. Maybe maybe you've done something in your

1797
01:43:25,399 --> 01:43:28,840
life that someone will remember you for. But in five

1798
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:35,680
hundred years, in a thousand, think about it. How many

1799
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:39,800
Roman millions of Romans during the Roman Empire of a

1800
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:42,920
thousand years? How many do we remember? How many do

1801
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:46,279
we actually think about? It's usually the emperor is usually

1802
01:43:46,359 --> 01:43:49,279
key players in certain dramas that happen to be written down.

1803
01:43:50,399 --> 01:43:54,640
But there were millions and no one remembers, you know

1804
01:43:54,920 --> 01:43:57,680
at all. So when you look at things like that

1805
01:43:57,760 --> 01:44:00,840
and you start like, oh, maybe I worry much as

1806
01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:03,960
much as I used to about these little stupid things.

1807
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:07,079
It's not easy. It's not it's not easy, But when

1808
01:44:07,119 --> 01:44:08,840
you look at it from that perspective, you're just kind

1809
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:12,720
of like, oh, maybe I should do things that make

1810
01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:13,520
me happy.

1811
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:19,560
Speaker 2: Percent well and for me. When when a couple of

1812
01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:23,479
my contemporaries died, that was the one of one of

1813
01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:27,640
the big shifts, like, oh they were the same agent.

1814
01:44:28,119 --> 01:44:32,640
She's not here anymore, she's done, so the game is over,

1815
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:34,880
and my game could be over tomorrow, it could be

1816
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:39,159
over in five years, and what am I going to

1817
01:44:39,239 --> 01:44:42,039
do today to feel alive?

1818
01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:49,119
Speaker 1: So that's so beautiful. Last question, what has all of

1819
01:44:49,159 --> 01:44:54,640
this work done for you on a on your soul journey,

1820
01:44:54,720 --> 01:44:58,199
meaning that you are more aware than most that death

1821
01:44:58,279 --> 01:45:01,840
is coming and could have come, like you just said, tomorrow,

1822
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:04,000
or it can come in ten years, twenty years, whatever.

1823
01:45:05,199 --> 01:45:09,000
How has this changed your perspective on the dying process

1824
01:45:09,039 --> 01:45:11,520
in your own life because you've been a observer of

1825
01:45:11,680 --> 01:45:16,199
death and of transitions for many years now. But how

1826
01:45:16,199 --> 01:45:19,039
does that register with you now, how you want to go,

1827
01:45:19,479 --> 01:45:22,760
how you are opening like, how does that work for you?

1828
01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:26,399
Because I have a very clear idea of my exiting

1829
01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:29,880
this video game. I have a clear idea of how

1830
01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:33,239
I want to do it, and I might even have

1831
01:45:33,279 --> 01:45:36,239
seen what will happen. Who knows in the meditation, who

1832
01:45:36,279 --> 01:45:40,079
knows what shows up? But I have a clear idea

1833
01:45:40,199 --> 01:45:42,199
from this work. Because I can't do this work without thinking,

1834
01:45:43,119 --> 01:45:45,319
I talk about it all the time. So you've had

1835
01:45:45,319 --> 01:45:49,760
to have that self, this kind of meditative thoughts about yourself.

1836
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:50,800
How has this affected you?

1837
01:45:52,560 --> 01:45:56,720
Speaker 2: I didn't think about my own dying for a long time,

1838
01:45:57,720 --> 01:46:06,000
and I was very much in the let me I'm

1839
01:46:06,039 --> 01:46:07,279
going to do this work and I'm going to be

1840
01:46:07,279 --> 01:46:12,560
of service, and did that to my detriment, and did

1841
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:17,600
that in some places, those places inside of ourselves where

1842
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:22,960
we want to save and we have the wholeness of

1843
01:46:23,159 --> 01:46:28,720
every feeling, thought, emotion in us. I think, and I've

1844
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:31,800
had to or gotten to really look at my shadow

1845
01:46:32,199 --> 01:46:36,159
and look at my light, and I think in the

1846
01:46:36,239 --> 01:46:39,600
last five years especially, have really been able to hold

1847
01:46:39,760 --> 01:46:43,840
both of those. So as I do this work now,

1848
01:46:44,039 --> 01:46:47,399
I do it from that perspective that I am a

1849
01:46:47,479 --> 01:46:52,600
human and I'm fallible, and there are things that I love,

1850
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:55,119
and there are people I love, and I make mistakes,

1851
01:46:55,359 --> 01:47:02,399
and the calling I feel is to do end of

1852
01:47:02,439 --> 01:47:06,479
life work. And it's okay. For a long time, I

1853
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:08,600
wasn't sure it was okay. It felt a little weird

1854
01:47:08,640 --> 01:47:12,000
and odd. And as we have talked about past lives

1855
01:47:12,039 --> 01:47:15,239
and all those things, that was all part of the

1856
01:47:16,159 --> 01:47:18,680
do I say these things out loud because those things

1857
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:21,039
got to be more and more. I can't. I can't

1858
01:47:21,079 --> 01:47:26,680
talk about I can't talk about dying in the feeling

1859
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:30,279
of somebody who's died standing behind me without thinking about

1860
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:35,239
consciousness and what does this all mean? What's really real?

1861
01:47:35,840 --> 01:47:38,760
All of that? And so when I think of myself

1862
01:47:39,720 --> 01:47:42,159
in a bed dying, if I am lucky enough to

1863
01:47:42,159 --> 01:47:43,439
do that, if I don't need to buy a truck,

1864
01:47:44,920 --> 01:47:50,399
that I think, Wow. I hope I get to see

1865
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:57,840
people I love. And I am doing things now to

1866
01:47:57,880 --> 01:47:59,319
take care of my body and take care of my

1867
01:47:59,359 --> 01:48:02,039
spirit that I would have done ten years ago, fifteen

1868
01:48:02,079 --> 01:48:07,279
years ago, taking taking breaks and going to nature and

1869
01:48:08,079 --> 01:48:13,640
those kind of those kinds of things that are nourishing

1870
01:48:14,079 --> 01:48:19,279
and help me stay in myself. And I hope that

1871
01:48:19,399 --> 01:48:22,880
when I'm dying, I can be in myself too and

1872
01:48:23,039 --> 01:48:31,119
have the have the just have the experience of it.

1873
01:48:31,279 --> 01:48:34,319
Whatever the experience isn't I don't know what it's going

1874
01:48:34,359 --> 01:48:36,640
to be. I don't want to hurt, and I think

1875
01:48:36,720 --> 01:48:42,880
we'll have have opportunity for that not to be. And

1876
01:48:43,159 --> 01:48:44,960
they're particular people I want to have around me who

1877
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:46,319
will care for me and care for my body and

1878
01:48:46,359 --> 01:48:49,359
care for my spirit. And I'm very clear about that.

1879
01:48:49,439 --> 01:48:53,600
I'm clear about the energy I want around me, and

1880
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:57,119
I think that's that's transferred into regular life. You pick

1881
01:48:57,159 --> 01:49:01,239
who you want to spend time with im. I've gotten

1882
01:49:01,239 --> 01:49:02,760
pretty choosy.

1883
01:49:03,159 --> 01:49:07,319
Speaker 1: As we do as we get older. Yeah, we're loud,

1884
01:49:07,840 --> 01:49:12,239
as the funny comedian Nate Burghazzi says, it's like when

1885
01:49:12,279 --> 01:49:16,119
you're in your twenties your friend calls you and goes, hey, man,

1886
01:49:16,159 --> 01:49:18,199
we're going Where are we going? What are we doing?

1887
01:49:18,239 --> 01:49:20,199
Do you mean burn a house down? Let's do it.

1888
01:49:20,479 --> 01:49:24,399
Thirties you're like, where are we going? Forties are like

1889
01:49:24,520 --> 01:49:31,520
I'm driving. I'm driving separately. It's so intriguing, it's so shid.

1890
01:49:31,600 --> 01:49:33,760
Twenty you're like, I'm down to clown, let's go. Yes.

1891
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:38,880
But as you're like now, you're like, no, I think

1892
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:42,520
it's Tom Papa, the other great comedian Tom Papa. He's like,

1893
01:49:42,800 --> 01:49:45,640
one of the greatest things in my life is canceling

1894
01:49:45,720 --> 01:49:49,920
on plans. Oh my god. Like it's just like I have,

1895
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:52,039
Oh we have a dinner day with another couple. Oh

1896
01:49:52,119 --> 01:49:54,960
oh I could cancel. Yes, good cancer. I just want

1897
01:49:55,000 --> 01:49:58,720
to stay home in my pajamas and just it's like

1898
01:49:58,720 --> 01:50:00,479
it's a great and as you get old, did you

1899
01:50:00,520 --> 01:50:04,960
know what it's such true? Yes, it's so true. Oh Marto,

1900
01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:06,720
where can people find out more about you and the

1901
01:50:06,720 --> 01:50:07,720
amazing work you're doing.

1902
01:50:08,119 --> 01:50:11,079
Speaker 2: My website Martha Joe Atkins dot com. Simple as that,

1903
01:50:11,239 --> 01:50:11,760
Simple as that.

1904
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:12,880
Speaker 1: And you have a book out right.

1905
01:50:12,920 --> 01:50:14,439
Speaker 2: I have a book. So I'm post of dying and

1906
01:50:14,479 --> 01:50:17,000
working on a second book. I'll say that out loud

1907
01:50:17,119 --> 01:50:20,680
to spur myself on to get that finished. Been working

1908
01:50:20,680 --> 01:50:21,399
on it for a while.

1909
01:50:21,640 --> 01:50:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been such a pleasure talking to you in

1910
01:50:24,680 --> 01:50:27,439
this kind about things that are not pleasurable as a

1911
01:50:27,479 --> 01:50:29,039
general statement, but they can be.

1912
01:50:29,239 --> 01:50:30,199
Speaker 2: They absolutely can.

1913
01:50:30,199 --> 01:50:34,399
Speaker 1: Because it's part of this whole system of what we're doing.

1914
01:50:34,479 --> 01:50:38,239
And I appreciate you being not only being here and

1915
01:50:38,319 --> 01:50:42,600
helping the planet in the way that you're helping humanity,

1916
01:50:43,159 --> 01:50:46,640
but I appreciate the work. I appreciate the the empathy,

1917
01:50:46,960 --> 01:50:49,239
the love that you do the work with. And I

1918
01:50:49,279 --> 01:50:52,399
hope that this conversation does help others who are going

1919
01:50:52,399 --> 01:50:54,760
through this as well. So I appreciate you so much.

1920
01:50:54,840 --> 01:50:56,079
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

1921
01:50:58,439 --> 01:51:00,319
Speaker 1: Thank you for spending this sacred time I am with

1922
01:51:00,439 --> 01:51:04,119
us today. If you feel called to explore this conversation further,

1923
01:51:04,439 --> 01:51:06,640
you'll find the show notes for this episode at Next

1924
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:11,279
Levelsoul dot com. Forward slash six five six and if

1925
01:51:11,319 --> 01:51:14,119
your soul is craving an even deeper journey. Step into

1926
01:51:14,239 --> 01:51:18,920
Next Level Soul TV, our streaming sanctuary for spiritual films, documentaries,

1927
01:51:19,159 --> 01:51:24,640
original shows, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks, and transformative teachings.

1928
01:51:25,119 --> 01:51:28,319
It's a space created to support your awakening, you're healing,

1929
01:51:28,840 --> 01:51:31,439
and your return to the truth of who you really are.

1930
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:36,600
Begin your journey at Next levelsoul dot tv until next time,

1931
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:41,119
Keep expanding, keep seeking, and keep walking your path towards

1932
01:51:41,439 --> 01:51:43,039
the next level of your soul.