1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,879 Speaker 1: Contrigurable privacy is definitely the cornerstone aspect of why Canton 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,839 has kind of attracted these institutional kind of parts Ethereum 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,640 and Salana. I don't think anything bad about their blockchains. 4 00:00:12,679 --> 00:00:14,480 I don't think we will get to a world where 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,679 one blockchain is the only blockchain. There are different blockchains 6 00:00:17,679 --> 00:00:18,960 for different use cases. 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: The SEC and the CFTC have been doing a lot 8 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,879 of guidance in rulemaking. Your thoughts on that, what impact 9 00:00:23,879 --> 00:00:27,120 that's having on the institutions, Is that giving them kind 10 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,839 of a semi green light to continue building and innovative. 11 00:00:30,199 --> 00:00:34,079 Speaker 1: Short answer is yes, there's a tremendous amount of tailwinds 12 00:00:34,119 --> 00:00:40,479 behind this. 13 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by I Trust Capital. 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,039 I Trust Capital allows you to invest in crypto as 15 00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:48,960 well as precious metals like gold and silver via an 16 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,520 IRA and this gives you huge tax advantages, so you 17 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,600 can invest in over ninety crypto assets including Bitcoin, E 18 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,640 Theorem x RP, Solana, and many more. 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Again, you 57 00:02:54,159 --> 00:02:56,479 can get one hundred dollars funding bonus by signing up 58 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,439 via my link which is I Trustcapital dot com slash 59 00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:04,759 go slash Thinking Crypto. Link will be in the description. Hey, folks, 60 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,599 welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony 61 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,560 Edward and joining me today is Mark Wenlan, who is 62 00:03:10,599 --> 00:03:14,680 the chairman and chief executive officer of Canton Strategic Holdings, 63 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:18,039 which is the first publicly traded company to leverage Canton 64 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,280 coin and support the Canton network to advance institutional blockchain 65 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:27,280 adoption and the digitization of financial markets. Mark great to 66 00:03:27,319 --> 00:03:27,680 have you. 67 00:03:28,439 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: Thanks Stony, and it's a pleasure to be here. I 68 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,919 look forward to digging into Canton. 69 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,039 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I'm very familiar with the Canton network, so I'm 70 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:38,759 excited to dive into what you and the folks are 71 00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:42,439 doing with Canton Strategic Holdings and talk about, you know, 72 00:03:42,479 --> 00:03:45,159 the broader market with institutional adoption and much more. But 73 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,199 you know, I would love to start with your background. 74 00:03:47,319 --> 00:03:49,479 Tell us about where you're from and you're professional back. 75 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: So I'm from Wisconsin, Midwest accent, maybe a little twang 76 00:03:55,159 --> 00:03:57,960 to my voice there, but I'm from Wisconsin. I'm the 77 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:03,080 youngest of seven siblings. Avid sports fan, a Green Bay 78 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,319 Packers fan of course, if you can't be from Wisconsin 79 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,599 without being a cheese head. And so I grew up 80 00:04:09,639 --> 00:04:14,840 in the Midwest and went to Citadel pretty much straight 81 00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:18,720 after school. Worked at Citadel for sixteen years doing a 82 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,519 variety of different functions and leading different teams, but all 83 00:04:22,759 --> 00:04:26,439 within the Treasury and operations function. So it was always 84 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,360 about how to use technology and leverage technology to build 85 00:04:31,399 --> 00:04:35,279 scalable systems, scalable process Obviously leverage was a key component 86 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,439 for a firm like Citadel, and was there for sixteen 87 00:04:39,519 --> 00:04:42,879 years and then until twenty nineteen left to go to DRW, 88 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,120 another trading shop trades pretty much every asset class under 89 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,480 the sun, but leverages technology as well. So I was 90 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,560 COO and a partner there for six years until coming 91 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:57,680 to Canton Strategic. 92 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: So you have a plethor experience in the trad fi 93 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,279 world and seeing a lot of changes into financial markets, 94 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,839 a lot of technology. But now we have blockchain coming 95 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,040 along Mark, how do you see this technology changing the markets? 96 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I mean I think it's just another example 97 00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:19,759 of how technology can impact workflows. I think that is 98 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,560 the area where Canton's focused specifically on. It's not always 99 00:05:23,639 --> 00:05:27,560 the most sexiest aspect of it, but it is the 100 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,800 underpinnings of how settlement flows, how collateral news that can 101 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,439 unlock real economic utility. I think, you know, crypto and 102 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,519 technology has talked about doing a lot of different things, 103 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,399 but delivering that utility is the key differentiating factor of 104 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,680 what determines success in some of these things, and what 105 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,360 I mean by success is not a moment in time, 106 00:05:51,399 --> 00:05:53,759 but something that sustained for a long period of time, 107 00:05:54,439 --> 00:05:57,399 not just necessarily a momentum play. And this is a journey, 108 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,680 This is a marathon. This isn't you know, a short 109 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,959 sprint to the finish line and then it's over. It's 110 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,560 really about leveraging the technology to rewire financial markets that 111 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,839 you know, everyone kind of enjoys. The US markets are 112 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:15,920 the largest, most liquid financial markets in the world, and 113 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,680 it's still based off of technology that is from a 114 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,160 different era. And so CANTON is focused on trying to 115 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,199 use that technology and rewire our financial markets, not necessarily 116 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,519 replace our financial markets. There will be an enhancement and 117 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,959 things that will evolve with any technology, but it starts 118 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,959 first with rewiring the systems into you know, the power 119 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,560 of blockchain and the internet. Frankly, so Key. 120 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: Where you mentioned there that I thought of enhancement because 121 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,040 to your point, we're not replacing these markets, but we're 122 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,519 making them twenty four to seven, we're making assets that 123 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,639 we're sitting idle in the corner, so to speak, liquid 124 00:07:00,199 --> 00:07:04,839 and opening up more opportunities with fractionalization and the ability 125 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,720 for these assets to be distributed globally. It's pretty incredible 126 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,360 when you think about it. And to your point, it's 127 00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:13,399 a marathon, not a sprint. So it's going to take 128 00:07:13,439 --> 00:07:16,120 some time to build this out right, It's going to 129 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,600 take time. But I will caution this isn't a five 130 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:23,639 to ten year cycle. We have tremendous kind of tailwinds 131 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,439 at this adoption right now, and I think the next 132 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,800 call it six to eighteen months are you're going to 133 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,800 see a lot of progress towards evolving these things. That 134 00:07:33,839 --> 00:07:38,920 doesn't mean that all the trillions of collateral that are 135 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,720 not on blockchain will suddenly move to tokenized form. But 136 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,800 when you think about high quality assets, and there's over 137 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:49,920 two hundred and forty trillion of kind of that asset 138 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:55,160 class high quality that could be eligible collateral that's just 139 00:07:55,279 --> 00:07:58,879 kind of locked in kind of a settlement cycle that's 140 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,600 either a T plus onet plus two cycle, and now 141 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,560 it can move instantaneously and the amount of friction in 142 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,079 the system that is slowed down by that. So instead 143 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:16,079 of funding an obligation a day in advance, now you're 144 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,959 able to fund it ten minutes in advance. That is 145 00:08:19,319 --> 00:08:23,360 a large amount of financing cost and overhead that the 146 00:08:23,519 --> 00:08:26,519 entire system is kind of dealing with right now based 147 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,959 on the legacy architecture around those system. So I do 148 00:08:30,079 --> 00:08:33,399 think you're going to see significant traction in the next 149 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:35,399 six to eighteen months. I don't think it's a five 150 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,200 to ten year vision. And the other aspect that I 151 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,639 would say is the train has left the station. It's 152 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:44,960 the genies out of the bottle. This is the way 153 00:08:45,159 --> 00:08:45,879 of the future. 154 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,519 Speaker 1: Exactly what that means and how the market structure is 155 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,440 going to evolve. I think we'll wait for some more 156 00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:57,279 development from Washington and some of the regular editory at Landscape, 157 00:08:57,279 --> 00:08:59,960 but I don't see this as something that's going to 158 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,480 be revised or repealed back. I think you're going to 159 00:09:03,919 --> 00:09:09,080 continue to see more, you know, the vision and details 160 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,799 around that form, but I don't think it's it's inevitable 161 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,639 at this point. Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm 162 00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:19,039 the host of the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to 163 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,320 ask you if you can please support the podcast by 164 00:09:21,399 --> 00:09:24,080 hitting the like button subscribing. If you haven't as yet, 165 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,159 you can leave a comment below as well, and if 166 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,120 you're listening on a podcast platform such as Spotify, Apple, 167 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,799 or wherever you get your podcasts, Please be sure to 168 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,440 follow and hit the five star rating. I'll let you 169 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,480 get back to the content. Thank you so much. 170 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. Mark, where along the timeline, whether you 171 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,159 were at Citadel or DRW, that you discovered blockchain tech 172 00:09:45,279 --> 00:09:48,000 or crypto, and what was your aha moment and and 173 00:09:48,039 --> 00:09:49,799 what made you want to come work in the industry. 174 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:55,159 Speaker 1: Sure, so, first exposure was when I was at Cidadel. 175 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:56,879 It was actually not through work, It was through a 176 00:09:56,919 --> 00:10:01,720 personal friend that was intrigued. I was trying to convince 177 00:10:01,759 --> 00:10:06,240 me to get involved and invest in different things. Unfortunately 178 00:10:06,279 --> 00:10:09,399 for me, I did not follow his path and did 179 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:12,960 not get involved financially at that point in time. But 180 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:18,440 it did kind of introduce some curiosity and explore more 181 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,879 about what the technology was all about. Introduced me to 182 00:10:20,919 --> 00:10:23,320 some of the white papers. But my first kind of 183 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,399 aha moment, which is kind of a funny story, but 184 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,360 this is, you know, crypto, this is what everyone else 185 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,240 who's been in the industry for a number of years. 186 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:37,320 But when I joined DRW in summer of twenty nineteen, 187 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,120 I am and I've never shared this story publicly yet, 188 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,080 so this is somewhat of a humorous one, but it's 189 00:10:44,279 --> 00:10:47,480 typical in the crypto space. My first day, I'm going 190 00:10:47,519 --> 00:10:51,639 through orientation. I arrived thirty minutes before. I'm sitting in 191 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,759 the conference room ready for my HR training to explain 192 00:10:55,799 --> 00:10:58,200 where the bathroom is, all the benefits, etc. And I 193 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,519 get a call on my cell phone from one of 194 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,360 the people that was going to work on my team 195 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,960 at DW explaining there was an exchange, a Japanese exchange hack. 196 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,039 There's a shortage of around fifty million dollars. We're being approached. 197 00:11:14,039 --> 00:11:18,039 Do we want to provide liquidity, do we want to 198 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,679 backstop it? Do we want to invest in it? And 199 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,879 you know what should we do. I'm just taking it 200 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:28,559 all in understanding that I'm just in orientation at this 201 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:33,360 point in trying to make a decision and think about 202 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,679 how to dissect that. And so that was like my 203 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,840 AHA moment that this is one real These are real 204 00:11:38,879 --> 00:11:42,639 dollars that are being placed in at stake here and 205 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:47,720 you need to how you answer that question potentially before 206 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,320 watching would be a different case now and so you 207 00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:53,759 need to attack the problem slightly different. And so that 208 00:11:53,879 --> 00:11:56,679 was my kind of AHA moment right in the fire, 209 00:11:57,039 --> 00:11:59,000 make a decision what do you want to do we 210 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,120 have to make a decision that day, still trying to 211 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,120 understand exactly what yourw is all about and so forth. 212 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:10,120 But that was just an element of you know, where 213 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,919 the state of the world is at that time, it's 214 00:12:11,919 --> 00:12:14,919 real time, it's you have to make risk adjust the 215 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,799 decisions at those points. 216 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:21,399 Speaker 2: And what drew you to Canton strategic holdings to go, 217 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,039 you know, be the CEO there. 218 00:12:24,039 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: So Canton again what it's focused on is rewiring that settlements, 219 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:32,440 those those operational flows. My background has always been about 220 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,919 leveraging technology to solve for those types of problems. And 221 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:41,840 I also have a passion and driven for market structure 222 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,320 change and things that evolve. So I always like to 223 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,399 solve complex problems, try to figure out what's a better 224 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,519 way to go about something, whether it be from an 225 00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:59,000 operational process or a financial equation or managing scarce resources. 226 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,320 Is how do you solve for this problem to get 227 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,960 the optimal result? And Canton is the underlying technology that 228 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,879 I think is supposed to do that. So for me, 229 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,799 it was a very exciting opportunity to help re shape 230 00:13:12,919 --> 00:13:18,679 how our operations flow, how the financing flows through our ecosystem, 231 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,960 and there's no better seat than right in that thick 232 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,080 of it. So that's why Canton Strategic was very exciting 233 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,960 to me, and it's something that I've been working on 234 00:13:28,159 --> 00:13:30,039 my entire You. 235 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: Know, Canton is getting a lot of attention, a lot 236 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,879 of adoption, and there was a big investment recently in 237 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,559 Digital Acid, the developer of the Canton network. They raise 238 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,200 about three hundred and fifty five million dollars. So it 239 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,840 seems a lot of institutions are betting on Canton again, 240 00:13:46,919 --> 00:13:48,279 building and investing in it. 241 00:13:49,159 --> 00:13:52,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, even hats off the Digital asset in 242 00:13:53,159 --> 00:13:55,720 their rays. And I think again there's a who's who, 243 00:13:55,799 --> 00:13:58,879 a list of those investors that were in that round. 244 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,919 There was another raised they did, I think it was 245 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,639 in December. There was another raise in June of last 246 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:10,159 year as well. You take the accumulation of all those raises, 247 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,440 you take Canton Strategics five hundred and forty five pipe 248 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,639 and then an RDO in January that's six hundred million. 249 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,879 You know, well over a billion dollars has been raised 250 00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:26,240 across those two different firms in about investing in the 251 00:14:26,279 --> 00:14:31,159 Canton ecosystem. So there definitely is you know, a credibility 252 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,799 standpoint by all those institutions looking at Canton and saying 253 00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:38,600 I want to get involved, I want to help preciate this, 254 00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:42,480 you know, financial plumbing, and that's definitely a strength of 255 00:14:42,879 --> 00:14:45,960 both Digital Asset and Canton Strategic. But you look at 256 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:49,120 any of those lists of who's involved in them, they're 257 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,159 they're pretty much your largest institutions that are involved in 258 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,960 our financial markets today globally. 259 00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean the most recent, if I'm not mistaken, 260 00:14:57,519 --> 00:15:00,799 is the DTCC announcing that they're going to be building 261 00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:05,720 on Canton network, which is pretty incredible. I mean they're massive, Yeah, 262 00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:07,879 DTC the largest CSD. 263 00:15:07,639 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: In the world. I mean, they have one hundred trillion 264 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,480 of assets under their systems. And you know, I think 265 00:15:14,519 --> 00:15:17,840 the pilot that you're referencing that was announced in December 266 00:15:17,879 --> 00:15:22,399 of twenty twenty five was that Canton was going to 267 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,000 be where they were going to pilot transactions. It's not 268 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,360 an exclusive deal, but it's where they're starting with of 269 00:15:29,799 --> 00:15:34,759 meeting their requirements, and it starts with tokenizing the treasury, 270 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,159 which is the number one kind of use of non 271 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,919 cash collateral. And the reason for non cash collateral is 272 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,279 you're able to take a risk free assid or as 273 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,200 closer risk preacies, you're going to get a z US 274 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,879 Treasury and still earn an interest rate associate with that. 275 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,600 If you use cash fiat for collateral, you're not guaranteed 276 00:15:55,639 --> 00:15:57,679 to earn an interest rate assoction with that. Now, if 277 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,759 you're big enough, if you're large enough, you can negotiate 278 00:16:00,799 --> 00:16:04,879 that through your commercial relationships, but it's not a foregone conclusion. 279 00:16:05,039 --> 00:16:07,639 If you take a Treasury and pledge that as collateral 280 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,200 to back your margin or your obligations that you're required 281 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,879 to do for your portfolio, you can earn that coupon 282 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,840 rate on the Treasury bill or the two year note 283 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,840 of the US Treasury having it. So that's why it's 284 00:16:20,879 --> 00:16:24,919 the most common used collateral, non cash colteral that's used 285 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,799 in our financial markets. And DTC gives it that stamp 286 00:16:28,879 --> 00:16:32,279 of credibility associate with it because they are the custodian 287 00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:36,279 for those Treasury assets. And it's as close as you 288 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,919 can get to natively issuing on blockchain the US Treasury 289 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,159 by doing it at DTCC. Then the only out there. 290 00:16:44,519 --> 00:16:46,440 Next step up, I would say is if the US 291 00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:52,320 Treasury issued directly on blockchain, which may happen at some point, 292 00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:55,519 but it's not happening today. And so that's why I 293 00:16:55,679 --> 00:16:58,879 view DTC is a key component to allowing this and 294 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,799 what better play to kind of allowing this flipping back 295 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,680 and forth between tokenized form versus fed wire which is 296 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,920 the traditional way that treasurers are settled today. As they 297 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,039 can provide that service so you're not bifurcating liquidity between 298 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:21,079 the tokenized form and the old fedwire form. DTC can 299 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:24,319 do that service and make it seamless to the end user, 300 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,839 to the investor that's doing it. You want it in 301 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,640 tokenized form, you can get that and they will flip 302 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,039 it back and forth between the two. I think that's 303 00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:36,319 another key component that they're able to offer that service 304 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,799 given where they sit in the stack. They are the 305 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,079 largest CSD in the world. The US treasurers sit on 306 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,000 their books and records, and they make can make it seamless, 307 00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:45,759 you're not bifurcating liquidity. 308 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: Common question many of the viewers and listeners may have is, well, 309 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,640 you know what about etherorem solon, why would institutions pick 310 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,680 Canton network. I kind of know the answer today. I'm 311 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:02,839 assuming it's you know, institutionally built, institutionally trusted as far 312 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,599 as the participants supporting the chain, but also it has 313 00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:07,960 native privacy built in. 314 00:18:08,079 --> 00:18:12,039 Speaker 1: Is that right? That is correct? I would say slightly 315 00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:15,319 different in the fact that configurable privacy is definitely the 316 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:20,640 cornerstone aspect of why canton has kind of attracted these 317 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:27,079 institutional kind of parts that we've talked about Ethereum and Solana. 318 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,440 I don't think anything bad about their their blockchains. I 319 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,279 think they were just made different choices in what they 320 00:18:34,319 --> 00:18:37,039 were going after at that point in time. I don't 321 00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:40,559 think one blockchain is I don't think we will get 322 00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:43,240 to a world where one blockchain is the only blockchain. 323 00:18:43,559 --> 00:18:46,440 I think there are different blockchains for different use cases, 324 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,279 and Ethereum Salana made choices. Maybe they're faster, maybe they're cheaper, 325 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,000 or associated with that, whereas Cantonon focused on the configurable 326 00:18:56,039 --> 00:18:59,599 privacy as the cornerstone moment, and you know, I think 327 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,480 there were be others that will eventually evolve and introduce 328 00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:06,799 privacy similar to that over the course of time, and 329 00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:09,759 that's a good healthy market infrastructure. I think too much 330 00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:13,440 reliance on one blockchain is also a bad market structure, 331 00:19:13,759 --> 00:19:17,400 So you need to think about it in what the 332 00:19:17,519 --> 00:19:20,680 right structure is for a sizable market that we're talking 333 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,960 about here, which again crypto is is not insignificant from 334 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,720 a size, but the rest of the treasure market equity 335 00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:31,920 markets just is so massive compared to what we're talking 336 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:32,559 about today. 337 00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I always remind people it's going to be a 338 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,200 multi chain world with interoperability, and some of these assets 339 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,480 will live on multiple chains, right, we're seeing it with 340 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:42,599 stable coins. 341 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: That is correct. Yeah, I'm one hundred percent there has 342 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,359 to be able to do that, and again, those are 343 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,880 some of the choices where we need to still work 344 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,200 on some of the bridges and the interoperability across that. 345 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,519 That also can be seen as a vulnerability and it 346 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,880 weighs to you know, bad actors and so forth to 347 00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:05,400 infiltrate and cause issues there, which again I'm sure we'll 348 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,200 use technology to help solve for those problems as well. 349 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,759 But that's that's some of the risks of ego across them. 350 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,799 And again, the benefit of how I describe Canton specifically 351 00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:18,799 and why you see all these partnerships is once you're 352 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:23,319 in the blockchain and you're in the ecosystem, then you're 353 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,960 able to cross over and interoperate on the same type 354 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,200 of code without exposing you know, those bridges to then 355 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,119 be able to connect from JP Morgan's staple coin deposits 356 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,359 to HSBC staple coin deposits. It's it's one and the same. 357 00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:41,319 It doesn't introduce bridges across those, which is again oftentime 358 00:20:41,559 --> 00:20:43,559 seen as the vulnerability to the network. 359 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 2: Let's double click a big into Canton Strategic Holdings. Tell 360 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,279 us about the company, the mission, amount of Canton tokens, 361 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:55,319 your holding, ticker symbol all that jazz sure, So. 362 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: Canton Strategy Strategic Holdings CNTN is the ticker. We rebranded, 363 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,599 I think it was in February from the legacy name 364 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,079 and ticker. And we are focused on investing in the 365 00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:12,119 Canton ecosystem, so we use and a access to capital 366 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:18,559 markets and ability to sell stock and buy coin. So 367 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,039 coin accumulation is a component of it, but it's not 368 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,039 the only aspect of how we view in supporting the ecosystem. 369 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:32,079 We run businesses about participating in Canton markets, so an 370 00:21:32,079 --> 00:21:34,519 options market, a lending market, all of these things that 371 00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:39,880 are developing. As the ecosystem is very young, so to speak, 372 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,000 it's only been around for a couple of years, and 373 00:21:42,079 --> 00:21:45,519 so as that market develops, we will be participating in 374 00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:48,480 those markets and investing in applications that build on top 375 00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:50,960 of that network. So there's an element of we can 376 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:54,319 invest in firms and applications that are building on the 377 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,400 top of the network. We're also participating in the network 378 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,079 by being a super validator, We're participating in the governance structure, 379 00:22:02,599 --> 00:22:05,039 by being a member of the foundation. I'm on the 380 00:22:05,079 --> 00:22:10,000 board of the foundation. And so it's again early days 381 00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:13,720 around this ecosystem. It's only two years it's been a 382 00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:18,000 public blockchain, and it's about how can we help grow 383 00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:21,200 the ecosystem and do it the right way and sent 384 00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:26,079 as participating in the governance, participating in structure around that, 385 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,839 and helping the markets develop. But also from an investment standpoint, 386 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,440 sometimes there needs to be you know, capital deployed to 387 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,079 invest in those those applications, and we have access to 388 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,160 capital markets to be able to then help do that. 389 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,279 So you know, it's just another way to invest in 390 00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:44,680 the ecosystem. You can buy the coin, you can buy 391 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:50,200 our stock, and you obviously could buy Digital Asset, but 392 00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:53,920 that's a private company today, so that's not necessarily the easiest. 393 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,640 There's also ETFs out there as well. Each one has 394 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,880 their own flavor of differential and invest and it ultimately 395 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,680 comes down to an investor of what the goals are 396 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,000 and what they're looking to achieve. 397 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: Right now, the crypto market, many are saying, isn't a 398 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,440 bear market. You know, we're down from the all time 399 00:23:12,519 --> 00:23:15,759 highs that were hit possibly in twenty twenty five, So 400 00:23:15,799 --> 00:23:18,160 I'm curious, you know, what's your strategy and getting through 401 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,599 the bear market. Obviously markets are cyclical, but how are 402 00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:23,440 you guys planning to navigate the waters here? 403 00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:27,799 Speaker 1: So again, there's an element of crypto here because we 404 00:23:27,839 --> 00:23:29,759 do have a token, but I view this as a 405 00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:34,640 technology plan versus more of a crypto element. So you know, 406 00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:38,240 this may be two extreme realistatement. The crypto can do 407 00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:40,000 what it wants to do, it can be a bear 408 00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:43,160 marketing not and we just need to focus on delivering 409 00:23:43,599 --> 00:23:45,799 the goals of our business and what we've set out. 410 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,519 That's what we can control. You can't worry about what 411 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,880 external factors happen now. Obviously, a macro environment, even you know, 412 00:23:54,039 --> 00:23:56,599 just as a whole, whether there's a war or anything 413 00:23:56,759 --> 00:23:59,960 like that, inflation, s fight or anything like that can 414 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,519 impact risk assets or things around that like a company stock, 415 00:24:05,039 --> 00:24:07,720 But you have to focus on what you can control. 416 00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:12,440 You can't control those market events of what they happen externally. 417 00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:15,440 You just need to focus on executing the vision that 418 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,559 you will laid out and the rest will take care 419 00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:20,559 of itself. So I feel very confident about the ecosystem 420 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,240 that we built, the partnerships that we've included, and again 421 00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:28,119 for our business specifically at Canton Strategic, the additional yield 422 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,079 generation that we can return to shareholders by exposure to 423 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,000 the Canton ecosystem and all the different applications that are 424 00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:38,440 going to rewire financial markets that we know today. 425 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 2: On that note, what's on your roadmap that you can 426 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,039 share and notice? Probably things under wraps, but what can 427 00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:46,839 you share as far as next six months or so? 428 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think again, since we're a public company, 429 00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:54,319 we have quarterly filings that we have to do and 430 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,960 we've disclosed that. I think one of your questions before 431 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,319 was how many cantson coin we hold until fourth and 432 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,319 I would just re or back to our public filings 433 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,559 that would disclose that we have not published anything more 434 00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:09,519 recent of the dashboard or something like that that some 435 00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:12,240 of the other data have done and that's more a 436 00:25:12,279 --> 00:25:15,319 function of we don't view ourselves just as a digitalizet 437 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,960 surgery company. We're about exposure to the CANTON network as 438 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,119 a whole. Again, there's different ways you can do that. 439 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:25,000 Obviously we're biased and we think our company is the 440 00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:27,960 best way to invest in that. Because it is a 441 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,160 publicly traded stock, you can hold it in any type 442 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,799 of broker account. You could obviously do the same with 443 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,680 an ETF, but it just that offers a differentiated return 444 00:25:36,759 --> 00:25:40,680 without a management fee, and it's reflective of the whole 445 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,880 ecosystem versus just tracking to the coin and the coin. Again, 446 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,240 you can invest if you want to hold a wallet. 447 00:25:47,319 --> 00:25:50,559 Not everyone wants to do that, but that's another way 448 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,279 to get access to the investment of the coin and 449 00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:57,920 the directional correlation around that. But really excited about the 450 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,240 opportunities that we have ahead of us. Again because it 451 00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:05,000 is early days the next six months, obviously DTC is 452 00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:08,200 a key component and laying out that vision about how 453 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,960 to make collateral more mobile and working with CCPs and 454 00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:15,640 traditional finance to be able to accept tokenized treasuries after 455 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,200 they're tokenized by DTC. You need to get the rule 456 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,519 books and changes with the CCPs to be able to 457 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,440 use that collateral and to allow that kind of real 458 00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:29,440 time flow of funds to go through. And so we're 459 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,279 going to be continuing working with uh, you know, the 460 00:26:32,279 --> 00:26:34,720 partnership and the network to build that and then drive 461 00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:39,119 demand from you know, retail institutional demand of where they 462 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,559 want access to those tokenized assets, and you know the 463 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,160 lending market, options market, UH kind of some of those 464 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,240 derivative markets that will develop as a result of a 465 00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:54,119 healthy and you know, robust ecosystem. We will be participating 466 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,240 in those and again allows us to generate additional revenue 467 00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,079 for shareholders. 468 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,079 Speaker 2: I did want to get your take on, you know, 469 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,720 broader markets with everything that's happening in DC. Obviously, we're 470 00:27:05,759 --> 00:27:09,119 waiting on the Clarityact to pass. It's currently in the Senate. 471 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,079 Supposedly there's going to be some meetings this week and 472 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,039 we'll see how things go. But the agencies, the SEC 473 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,039 and the CFTC have been doing a lot of guidance 474 00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:19,400 in rulemaking. I'll love to get your thoughts on that 475 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,920 and what impact that's having on the institutions. You know, 476 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,559 is that giving them kind of a semi green light 477 00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:27,160 to continue building and innovative. 478 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: Short answer is yes, there's a tremendous amount of tailwinds 479 00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:36,400 behind this. I think the Clarity Act specifically getting done, 480 00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:39,640 we have a very short window I think of whether 481 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,359 that gets done or not before midterms. It's not that 482 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,599 it will never happen, but I think then if it 483 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,160 doesn't get done in the next six weeks, then you're 484 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,799 talking about, depending on the outcome of the midterms and 485 00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:55,880 how our political landscape looks in the US of whether 486 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,920 that's a twenty twenty seven event or not at that time. 487 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:06,079 But still very positive posturing from the regulatory agencies. I 488 00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:09,920 think it's not just about some of the rulemaking that's 489 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,640 coming out of it, but it's just the willingness to 490 00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:17,359 embrace and hear versus. The mindset before was if you 491 00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:21,519 ask any questions, you're almost simultaneously going to get hit 492 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,079 with some sort of action against you. It was almost 493 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:29,160 that you were penalized if you were asking questions about 494 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,440 different things. So the mindset around that is definitely embracing it. 495 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,559 The details around what that looks like I think is 496 00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:43,039 still TBD, but I'm very optimistic that with the leadership 497 00:28:43,119 --> 00:28:46,039 of the two most relevant which is the SEC and 498 00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:52,000 TFTC that they will continue to work together with themselves 499 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,079 and also with market participants to develop rules that work 500 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,759 and allow for more things to continue to develop on shore, 501 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:06,200 whereas probously previously it was it was pushed offshore. So 502 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,440 I do think that we'll continue to be a headwind, 503 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,279 I'm sorry, a tailwind, not a headwind. And you'll you'll 504 00:29:13,319 --> 00:29:16,160 see things come out. Last week the SEC, or was 505 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,880 it two weeks ago? The SEC made some market structure 506 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,720 changes for equity markets with REGA n MSS. Again, I 507 00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:27,400 view those things are probably long overdue, and you see 508 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,640 from the current administration and these agencies that they're willing 509 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,359 to tackle these problems but also work with market participants, 510 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,960 whether they're task force or working groups or not. They're 511 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,119 reaching across to market participant to hear from them and 512 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,720 then take that back and then produce rules. 513 00:29:46,519 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a complete one eighty from how things were 514 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,799 years ago. It was so crazy and I wondered if 515 00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:55,920 this industry was going to last with the you know 516 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,960 the aggressiveness of that respective administration. But you know, we 517 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,599 and it's a brand new day and things are in 518 00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:03,519 a better place. And you know, you said it earlier 519 00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:06,160 train has leftistation, Genie's out. The bottle of technology here 520 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,720 to stay and see we're seeing a lot of institutions 521 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,039 building with it, so it's pretty exciting. I did want 522 00:30:12,079 --> 00:30:15,359 to ask you about not so much predictions, but rather 523 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,079 you know, where do you see the markets in let's 524 00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:21,559 say ten years, so it's twenty thirty six, and a 525 00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:26,079 lot of the institutions are tokenizing assets. Maybe all assets 526 00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:30,359 are on chain, or the majority are real estate, precious metals, stocks, equities, 527 00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:35,400 YadA YadA. Is it all one market? Is AI training 528 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,279 on behalf of these institutions and individuals? But what does 529 00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:38,759 it look like? 530 00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: I think the short answer is you have a mix. 531 00:30:42,119 --> 00:30:44,359 I think that you're not going to see one hundred percent, 532 00:30:44,839 --> 00:30:48,359 like just even take tokenized treasuries. I don't think ten 533 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,920 years from now you're going to see one hundred percent. Well, 534 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,039 you see an overwhelming majority move on, see it's tokenized 535 00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:56,839 one probably. I think that that's a reasonable outcome over 536 00:30:56,839 --> 00:30:59,960 a ten year time horizon. And I think there are 537 00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:04,039 are those that can benefit from some of the financing 538 00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:08,119 drag associate with it. You can also have operational efficiencies 539 00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:12,519 that isn't always talked about either but bank loans, which 540 00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:17,720 is a credit instrument associated where it's mostly institutional players 541 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:21,279 that are in that today. But that's also because a 542 00:31:21,319 --> 00:31:25,480 function of how liquidity is in that and how operationally 543 00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:29,359 burdensome is to do that so well. Equity is settle 544 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,240 on a T plus two but basis. Bank loans settle 545 00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:34,799 on a T plus sixty basis because that's how long 546 00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:38,640 it takes to do those you know, settlement workflows associated 547 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,880 with it. You can move those types of flows on 548 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,799 top of a smart contract that allows then potentially for 549 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,559 it to be traded in a much more liquid way, 550 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,319 which could also open up potentially more for individuals or 551 00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:56,720 retails to participated in some of these markets, similar to 552 00:31:58,039 --> 00:32:00,839 discussions that have been had on private editor or things 553 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,599 like that. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to 554 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,039 be right for everyone, or that necessarily all assets will 555 00:32:08,039 --> 00:32:12,839 move on chain, but by putting some of those workflows 556 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,319 and assets on top of a smart contract, it allows 557 00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:20,240 for that discussion to even have take place. And so 558 00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:24,759 I think ten years from now you will see obviously 559 00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:28,079 the majority of the liquid assets if you will move 560 00:32:28,119 --> 00:32:33,039 on chain. I do think that you will see harmonization 561 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,119 around that where you don't have bifurcated markets, which I 562 00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:40,799 think would be a bad outcome. If you wanted to 563 00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:42,960 buy a stock and you want to buy it through 564 00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:46,200 the normal rails versus tokenized form, you get different prices 565 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,880 associated with that that I think would be a bad market. 566 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,240 And I think it's our job to figure out how 567 00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:55,759 to make that seamlesst to ultimately investors that want to 568 00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:59,519 do invest in equities or whatever for us we're talking about, 569 00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:02,640 and so that you know, flip flopping between the two 570 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,599 is handled behind the scenes and it's just one instrument 571 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,039 one security, as the SEC and some of the banking 572 00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:12,920 regulators have said for capital rules, is also a continued 573 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,079 statement that I think should be our thesis or a 574 00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:17,839 mission of what we're trying to build towards, because that's 575 00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:20,799 a market that is stronger, it's more liquid, and ultimately 576 00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:24,880 is better execution for all parties, both institutional and retail. 577 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,559 Speaker 2: You know, you brought up an interesting problem I never 578 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,240 really thought about, you know, with the different prices of 579 00:33:31,559 --> 00:33:34,079 a token is stock versus a normal stock in a 580 00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:37,279 regular environment, and that seems that's going to be a 581 00:33:37,279 --> 00:33:38,599 big issue we have to solve. 582 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's definitely and this is one that again, 583 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,240 I think there are different models if you take tokenized 584 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,599 equities that are being discussed and developed. It's still yet 585 00:33:49,039 --> 00:33:52,039 to be determined exactly who's the winner, which model is 586 00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:55,920 going to be the most prevalent, but you have those 587 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,400 that are, if you will SPB type structures. I think 588 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,839 you've even seen some headlines with the SpaceX IPO that 589 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,760 there was potentially some lawsuits about that they thought they 590 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,079 own something that they don't. That those are some of 591 00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:17,599 the risk By having not a natively issued asset on chain, 592 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,920 you get some of the characteristics, but it introduces new 593 00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:24,599 risk that you otherwise wouldn't have. So I don't think 594 00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:27,920 that that's a scalable model. That's what you're seeing developed 595 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,239 on some of the offshore. Does that mean that that 596 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,159 model will completely go away? No. I think that maybe 597 00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:36,360 right for certain things, but not when you're talking about 598 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,119 US equities. I think there's better models that can be developed. 599 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:45,679 I know DPC started with treasuries. I assume they have 600 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,119 ambitions to look at equities in the future. NOISE and 601 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:55,239 NASDAC have both discussed some details about how they plan 602 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,519 to look at tokenized equities for investors on their platform. 603 00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:02,400 So I do think that those will all evolve, but 604 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,599 it's important that however they're evolved in which blockchain they're on, 605 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,480 it's not bifurcated liquidity. That is the worse outcome that 606 00:35:11,639 --> 00:35:15,440 actually can make the You're giving up a lot of 607 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,599 the benefits that the underlying technology promises to save on. 608 00:35:19,199 --> 00:35:21,280 So I think that's one thing that we need to 609 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,039 always keep in mind as we use innovative technology, how 610 00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:29,719 is that going to end in the best way possible 611 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,360 That you're not sacrificing some of that by maybe getting 612 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,360 a faster shortcut to get to market, but you're always 613 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,039 doing it in the best mindset of structure which would 614 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,519 enhance the most liquidity, which ultimately will be the best 615 00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:45,079 execution for investors. 616 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 2: And do you feel though over time, and this may 617 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,360 be a far way off, but when companies go public, 618 00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:54,719 they're not doing the traditional way, They're going on chain 619 00:35:55,039 --> 00:35:56,519 and that might help solve. 620 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: Some of them. Yeah. I mean again, you can think 621 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,280 about whether it's using a transfer agent, which is done 622 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,760 today and they're the ones who are doing that conversion 623 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,400 or D to C as the intermediaries flipping the settlement 624 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,400 layer between the two. Again, there are different ways to 625 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,159 tackle the problem, but the point is that both of 626 00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:19,880 those need to be fungible at the end state that 627 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,639 it's just you if it drop down. If I want 628 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,559 to do a trade or a fixed message that I'm 629 00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:28,599 sending to my broker, if I'm doing algorithmic trading, I 630 00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:30,840 just want to own it in tokenized form, or I 631 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,360 want to own it in that but it's the same price. 632 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,039 It's still one hundred dollars on the exchange or the 633 00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:39,639 venue that it's trading at. I'm not paying a premium 634 00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:42,360 one way or the other. It's just this is a 635 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,400 settlement means of how I want to hold that asset. 636 00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:47,960 And again I think it's important that we give investors' 637 00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:51,280 choice whether they want to convert to tokenized form or 638 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,599 whether they don't, but it's one and the same to them. 639 00:36:54,639 --> 00:36:56,159 That's the goal is I think to come up with 640 00:36:56,159 --> 00:37:00,440 the structure where that's seamless. And then on the other 641 00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:03,440 side of token and I think you mentioned it earlier, 642 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,360 not everything needs to be tokenized, and I think of 643 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,000 okay for putting real estate on chain. Not every real 644 00:37:10,119 --> 00:37:12,920 estate market is appealing, and it may not be a 645 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,679 market for it, right, and even on the stock market, 646 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,119 not every company is appealing. There's some zombie companies out 647 00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:22,800 there and things like that. So to your point, doesn't yes, 648 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,639 a lot of assets will be token ased, doesn't mean 649 00:37:24,679 --> 00:37:28,320 everything has to correct. I definitely think that's the case, 650 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,840 and you have to be able to support both of 651 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:36,239 those paradigms as they develop. And I think you have 652 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,000 to take a look at what's the value add by 653 00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:42,719 tokenizing this, by converting it into a potentially twenty four 654 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,800 to seven I think not all markets, frankly will be 655 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,719 twenty four to seven either, and so I think that's 656 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,400 another thing that will develop across like which markets, is 657 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,800 there significant demand to be able to do that? What 658 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,039 are the risks of doing that in the twenty four 659 00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:03,119 seven type of environment? And those choices will be you know, 660 00:38:03,159 --> 00:38:06,519 the market will you know star oninism I view, the 661 00:38:06,559 --> 00:38:09,880 market will evolve and demand for those types of things. 662 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,920 But the other thing I'll say about twenty four to 663 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,119 seven is obviously a buzzworth that's thrown around a lot. 664 00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:18,920 But the biggest value add, you know, the power of 665 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,440 blockchain technology is not necessarily about those two am trades 666 00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:26,400 that I want to do from Chicago or New York. 667 00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:31,400 It's more about what does it do during the throughput 668 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,679 of the trading day when the majority of the liquity. 669 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,039 I don't think that will change. I don't think suddenly, 670 00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:38,559 you know, the most liquid point of the training day 671 00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:40,079 is going to be at two am New York time 672 00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:42,199 when you were talking about US equity markets. 673 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 2: But the ability to. 674 00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:48,559 Speaker 1: Trade that is worth something, and there's obviously for large 675 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,840 markets like that, there is a huge benefit from being 676 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,679 able to do that, or to be able to trade 677 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,559 on the weekend and things like that. But the biggest 678 00:38:56,559 --> 00:38:59,760 actual value add and economic utility to the market as 679 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,920 all is actually done through that normal trading day, that 680 00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:06,679 nine to five type trading day, that's the unlocked and 681 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,280 that can obviously be overlooked because that's you know, enhanced 682 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,679 economic utility you get today, whereas the others are allowing 683 00:39:14,679 --> 00:39:17,639 you to do something that you couldn't do. So there's 684 00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:21,639 two folds to the technology value add. There's one that 685 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,159 allows you new things that you otherwise wouldn't be able 686 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,400 to do, and then the other one is just doing 687 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,280 more efficiency around it through the trading deck. 688 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,519 Speaker 2: What do you think about in the ability to put 689 00:39:33,559 --> 00:39:36,079 these assets on chain, you could push them into markets 690 00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:39,320 where people don't have access to these assets. So for example, 691 00:39:39,639 --> 00:39:42,039 in certain parts of the world, people can't access the SpaceX 692 00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:45,920 or a Tesla stock, right, but if you're tokenizing and 693 00:39:46,039 --> 00:39:49,119 able to fractionalize it, and it could be some countries 694 00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:51,400 in Africa, some places in India, whatever it may be, 695 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,840 that is also part of it, the expansion of the 696 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:56,679 reach of the asset. 697 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's also some of the problem so 698 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,840 of you know, blockchain and bitcoin in general is about 699 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,840 how to use that as an access point to all 700 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,079 these different markets as well. I think for some of 701 00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:12,960 these it's just making sure that it's done in a 702 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,599 regulatory compliant way, depending on how that is. And I 703 00:40:16,599 --> 00:40:21,000 think that's historically why some of the things always moved offshores, 704 00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:24,159 because there wasn't an embracing of allowing that to happen 705 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,599 in the prior regime. And I think now it's like, yes, 706 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,480 we're on board with that, We're just need to define 707 00:40:30,519 --> 00:40:33,000 what those rules of the road are for that to happen. 708 00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:37,360 And again, I think the current regime is very committed 709 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,480 to deliver on that. It's going to take a little 710 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,760 bit of time to be able to formulate exactly what 711 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,639 that looks like. But I think that is definitely part 712 00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:47,360 of the promise of the technology is you get that 713 00:40:47,639 --> 00:40:52,360 access to different partticle of the otherwise pin which means 714 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,320 more demand associated with it as well. So very excited 715 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:57,760 about what that looks like in the future. 716 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just think as you're saying that, like 717 00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:03,719 stable coins where the proof of concept so to speak, right, 718 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,800 which we know it works, and there are people in 719 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,559 different countries and I've seen examples in South America, you know, 720 00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:12,280 people they want the US dollars stable coins and the 721 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,360 benefits that come with that. 722 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, and again stable coins are just a form of 723 00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:20,480 payment associated with a tokenized way. So like if we 724 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,440 think about tokenized equities, they can have a form of payment. 725 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,239 It could be a stable coin, it could be a 726 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,159 tokenized deposit, it can be you know, the you know, 727 00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:35,159 blockchain equivalent. If you will form a payment attached to 728 00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:38,480 that tokenized equity that you're then able to move as 729 00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:41,880 a delivery versus payment, all one kind of transaction, the 730 00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:44,639 atomic selement across MM. 731 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,320 Speaker 2: Mark great stuff. I got some wrap up questions here 732 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,719 for you. Let's do it First, are you an early 733 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:51,679 bird or night out? 734 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,199 Speaker 1: Short answer is both, and I'm talking to you. I 735 00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:57,880 guess a Crypto audience which just doesn't sleep too much 736 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,920 either because they've been operating at twenty four. But if 737 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,119 I have to pick one, I'm definitely a morning versus afternoon. 738 00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:06,440 But I'm I don't sleep. 739 00:42:06,199 --> 00:42:08,760 Speaker 2: Well windows theater aisle. 740 00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:13,079 Speaker 1: Definitely an ale. I'm the tall individual. I need to 741 00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:18,480 stretch out the legs, text, email or call, So I'm 742 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,800 definitely an email because I like organization. An email just 743 00:42:23,159 --> 00:42:25,159 been around for a long period of time, so able 744 00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:28,079 to organize my inbox very very meticulously. 745 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 2: I'm same way. What's one company outside of Crypto you admire? 746 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,599 Speaker 1: There's a few of them. I think Amazon always comes 747 00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:41,480 to mind. You know, read several books on kind of 748 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,239 how their evolution, about how they developed and broke the 749 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,000 supply chain and innovated from you know, it started as 750 00:42:47,039 --> 00:42:50,039 a as an online bookstore and where it's come today 751 00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:53,280 and how it's evolved. So I think they're a fascinating 752 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,239 one that I always kind of look at how they developed. 753 00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 2: I love that image. I'm sure you've seen it, the 754 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,760 photograph of Jeff Bezos in that room with just you know, 755 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,199 really bad computer deats and a banner where it looks 756 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:07,639 like a spray printed Amazon. 757 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: Yes, that is very good, incredible where. 758 00:43:11,159 --> 00:43:13,599 Speaker 2: He came from. If you could have dinner with any 759 00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:15,559 person living or dead, who would it be. 760 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: So I started with them from Wisconsin, and I'm a 761 00:43:19,519 --> 00:43:22,039 Packers fan, so I'm gonna press it with that. But 762 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,880 I admire Reggie White. So he obviously was not around 763 00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:29,159 for a long period of time. I think he passed 764 00:43:29,199 --> 00:43:33,800 away when he was forty something early forties after retiring, 765 00:43:34,599 --> 00:43:37,679 but obviously one of the most dominant in his position. 766 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,800 But the way that he carried himself, I think was 767 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,679 what really stood out to me. He's obviously was a 768 00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:49,239 physical human being, but it wasn't about demoralizing the opponent 769 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,159 or anything like that. He played by rules and you know, 770 00:43:53,519 --> 00:43:57,840 had a certain character to him. So Reggie White, best 771 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,079 advice you've ever gotten. So one of the most impactful 772 00:44:02,159 --> 00:44:07,159 for my career was a coach that I had in 773 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,920 my career, and it really taught me about preparation and organization. 774 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,480 So going into. 775 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,719 Speaker 3: Your your day, whether that's a week in advance, or 776 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,400 the night before or even the morning of, you have 777 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,559 a series of different meetings or participants that you're you're 778 00:44:22,639 --> 00:44:25,840 engaging with and going through a series of questions, what's 779 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:27,760 my role, what's my outcome? 780 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: How am I contributing to it? And ultimately, uh, you know, 781 00:44:32,039 --> 00:44:34,920 what's the goal the meeting and how do I influence 782 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,840 that decision or whatever the outcome of that is. And 783 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:43,360 then upliging your objectives and what your role is and 784 00:44:43,519 --> 00:44:47,079 that to align to obviously achieve the goal. And that 785 00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:51,400 really that mindset really allowed me to uh, you know, 786 00:44:51,559 --> 00:44:54,960 optimize my day and kind of my operational workflow around 787 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,880 things by being organized but being thoughtful about you know, 788 00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,239 extracting those outcomes. 789 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,320 Speaker 2: Love it mark, absolute pleasure, and I'm looking forward to 790 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,400 the future updates around Canton Strategic Holdings. I'm sure we're 791 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,400 going to do a round two at some point as 792 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,639 things progress. But thank you so much for joining me, 793 00:45:11,159 --> 00:45:14,440 thanks for having me, Thank you so much for tuning in. 794 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,480 Please hit the like button subscribe if you haven't as yet. 795 00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:20,440 If you're listening on a podcast platform such as Spotify 796 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,159 or Apple, please follow and leave a five star rating. 797 00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:24,320 Thank you so much,