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Speaker 1: If you want to get the show early and ad free,

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head on over to the peak Kinyonas show dot com.

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There you can choose from where you wish to support me.

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Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me

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about this, even though I think on the last ad

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I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed,

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audio file. So head on over to the pekan yonasshow

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dot com. You'll see all the ways that you can

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support me there. And I just want to thank everyone.

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It's because of you that I can put out the

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amount of material that I do. I can do what

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I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two hundred Years Together

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and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are

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doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all because of you.

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And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank

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you enough. So thank you. The pekan Yonashow dot com.

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Everything's there. Want to welcome everyone back to the p

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kan Yona show. Thomas is here and uh it's gonna

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talk a little more about the work of Werner Sombart.

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How are you doing, Thomas, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for hosting me. I realized it kind of

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looked like a hobo, like I didn't do anything crazy yesterday,

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but it was my birthday, so I had a couple

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of dram buoies. Then I ate a bunch of ice

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cream and I was on like a coma. So my

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birthday present of myself as I I just like chilled

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the last forty hours and caught up on correspondence. I

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didn't really put anything in on the manuscript, so I mean,

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I I've just been being kind of a schlub.

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Speaker 1: So well, I wish you happy birthday privately, but happy birthday.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no thanks? I yeah no, I was. I

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wasn't fishing for praise or well wished. But I, like

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I said, I I tried not to be a freaking

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hobo like when I do these things, because I not

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out of vanity. I just think it's a bad look.

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So forgive me for this, But I did want to.

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I don't want to derail our discussion from the dedicated topic.

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But you know, obviously this has been a kind of

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a rough week for the country, you know, owing to

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the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and there's a lot of

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disinformation as well as just ignorance around the man himself,

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but also around the political climate. That is what I

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believe facilitated is murder. You know, I don't believe it's

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some specific event conspiracy of discreet actors in the Deep

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State or Israel or something to whack Charlie Kirk, but

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a psychological environment where this sort of thing is common,

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it has been purposefully curated. And there's all these pundits

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popping off as well as just internet guys and kind

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of careers saying stuff like, oh, these this trans movement

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is Marxist or you know, these people ascribed to this

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blah blah blah ideology. They really don't. You know. The

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whole thing is that there's there's a bit of a

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deliberately cultivated moronism to this. I don't even mean that pejoratively,

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I mean literally. You know that Tyler Robinson kid, you know,

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what he supposedly was scrawling on his shelves was stuff

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like take the fascist ilo will you're gay that's the

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level these people are on. It's it's almost they're almost

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barely sentient, you know. And when it derives from the

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reason why there was such this huge emphasis on sexual

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identity and sexuality is supposedly this essential moodicatharsists that have

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sublimated leaves all these social pathologies. That was basically the

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that was basically the primary thesis of MARCUSA okay, and

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that's not accidental. Don't get me wrong. I think Marcus

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actually believe that, you know, he Freud and Marx very

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much informed his ideological paradigm. But the reason why sex

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and this sort of pre rational instinct and the alleged

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relationship of that to the essential dignity and core the

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person looms so large is because that's the whole point.

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The whole point is that there's this sort of pre

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rational rage that can be accessed whereby for reasons and

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egotism that have no rational relationship that we think of

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as you know, ideological imperatives or higher reason. You know,

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this is what animates these people. And that's important to

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keep in mind, you know, not just for the sake

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of clarity, but this isn't something it's not like we

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do have some dialogue to neutralize this radicalization tendency or something.

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It's sort of the it's sort of the opposite of

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a substanti ideology, you know. And that's important to consider,

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I think, because this is something that contributes to rendering

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the conceptual landscape PEG when people refuse to accept that,

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does that make any sense?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, and uh I suppose to Like

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some people might respond to that and say, well, why

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should I give a shit? These people are scum? Yeah

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they are, okay, But correctly identifying the nature and character

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the threat is important, you know. And like I said

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before too, I know, I know some people have been

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saying too that people like Sam Hyde are being disingenuous

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when they claim have been like moved by the murder

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of Kirk. Like, look, I was not a Charlie Kirk guy.

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I think people know, they read my content, you know,

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but the guy was a white man. He was a

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white Christian. He was a Calvinist, you know, from right here,

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like a little bit west to me. And he was

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the kind of guy you wants a neighbor, you know.

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Whatever his flaws and his shortcomings and his conceptual blind spots.

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The guy wasn't not only was he not an enemy,

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but you know, the he for better or words, he

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was a symbol for white America and that kind of normalcy. Okay,

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And it's really really bad that just happened, you know,

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and I think people need to acknowledge that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was saying, I was saying today to

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some of to some of our comrades that privately that

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Charlie Kirk was like on the path, like headed towards

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where we are. And the scary thing is he's thirty

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one years old. A lot of people, I know, you

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you bought you didn't buy into this. You discovered it

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and you realize what it was at a much younger age.

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But he was thirty one years old, had come a

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long way in ten years, come a long way definitely

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in the last two years, and there was potential in

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the future that he could be the kind of leader

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that would we would hang out with.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's also too, I think a lot of people

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don't fully realize. You know, Kirk, when he started turning

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point for a practical purposes, he was a kid, he

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was like nineteen years old. So Kirk gets and recently

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he turned down some big donation from APAC. You know,

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basically he's like, I don't want your money. And I mean,

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obviously that's fed speculation by people that they said to

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do is new with his murder. I don't believe that.

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But the point being, he's some teenage kid, you know,

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he's uh, all these important and powerful people say hey,

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we like what you're doing. We want to fund your pack,

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you know, I mean, what's he gonna say, like, you know, oh,

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you know, go after yourself because you're a Jew, and

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you know, I've got to take a stand agains Zionism. Like,

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don't get me wrong, Like I am not being flippant,

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but most teenage kids in that position, they're not gonna

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be thinking that way, especially not some guy who grew

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up in Allington Heights, you know, goes to church, goes

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in a two parent home. You know, he knows something's wrong,

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but he's not exactly immersing himself on esotery political theory,

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and he's not an outlaw. Like this isn't a flex

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but I've always been an outlaw. Okay, I don't need to.

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I'm not saying that people should emulate that or that

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makes me better, smarter, like more cunning than anybody. But

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when you've always been on the outside, it's easier to

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accept some of these realities. Okay, so you got to

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consider that too. But point being, Yeah, as Kirk was maturing,

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as his brand developed its own kind of momentum, it

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was clear that he was discriminating in who he was

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willing to take money from, you know, because obviously that

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money comes with a price when you're expected to be

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a mouthpiece. And you know, so, yeah, I I I mean,

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people can, people can think whatever they want on this.

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I'm not saying you've got it. I'm not saying that

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if you didn't care about Charlie Kirk, or if you

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found his viewpoints to be trivial or or or corrosive

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to you know that the advancement of a revolutionary perative,

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saying you gotta pretend to like him or something. I'm

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I'm saying I don't think Hyde was lying or do

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what we're saying this for clout and in my own case,

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I mean, I'm a nobody, but I I'm not. This

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is why I made the statement I did about his murder.

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There there's nothing cool about it. And I mean it's

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not cool if anybody's murdered and it's got to be done,

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it's got to be done, and you should be a

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man about it. But that still doesn't make it cool.

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But in this case, not only is it not cool,

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it was a very tragic thing and a very horrible thing.

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But I just wanted to get that out there. And yeah,

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the but the main thrust is, like I said, the

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sociological phenomenon and of these these to disturb people like

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this Robinson guy. It's not it's not a traditional process

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of radicalization. You know, don't compare these people to the

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kinds of guys who join ISIS and become mujha heat.

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They're not anything like that. It's way more banal. It's

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way more like literally moronic. It's way more infantile. And

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that's the whole point, you know. It's a detonation strategy.

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It's not the regime saying we've got to curate cadres

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of people who have this deep ideological vision of how

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things should develop. It's saying, let's how do we make

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human torpedoes? That's it, you know, And this kind of

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I mean, you see this too, and I promise I'll

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get into the substance of what of the of the top?

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Speaker 1: And I want to hit you at a question before

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before Okay, well, I guess what what I would ask

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is what someone would ask is when you see, you know,

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forty thousand people that they've taken information on that they're

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targeting for some kind of retribution. About celebrating his death.

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I mean, look, literally millions of people celebrated his death,

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and not only millions of people, but like people on

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the news, talking heads, people who have audiences that are

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hundreds of thousands of people and millions of people. Even

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what does that say about where we are? What does

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that say about what we should be doing? You know,

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considering that you know the odds that this you know,

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this government, this this regime is going to do something

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about cracking down on these people, what should we be doing.

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Speaker 2: The same thing we've been doing. I mean, these people

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expose themselves and they do this kind of stuff, and

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there regimes weird reaction to it. Like on the one hand,

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you got guys like pritzkerr and like Bill Mocker who

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are obviously happy that Kirk is dead, but they're over

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selling this kind of pretend somberness. Okay, that's them playing

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their hand. And these talking heads too, they don't even

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really know who Chilly Kirk is. They just think he's

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something like Donald Trump too or something like you can

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tell by the way they talk about him. They've never

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watched his content, you know, because again he was a

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very mainstream guy. But he I've heard some somewhat these

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fools are saying is obvious. They've never listened to his

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debates or listened to his talks. They got just because

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it's conceptually off base, like what they claim he thought

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or said. You know, they're saying somebody was saying he's

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like a white nationalist. Other people are claiming he's some

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like trad Catholic type guy like it's obvious they don't

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or just some like super Trump mega supporter, and like,

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don't get me wrong, he very much was a Trump shill.

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But you know, he also was talking about the Epstein

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thing and saying that you know, the like literally saying

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the d L is anti white. Okay, So it's it's

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more nuanced than that. And that's also why, uh, you know,

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the regime and its adjacent elements curating these kinds of

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this kind of political homicide. And then like I said,

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it's uh, the actors within the regime pretending this to

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some somber moments. That's part of the whole point. So

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like these fools like Seal clapping, like they're they don't

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get it. They're they're they're selling the regime narrative wrong,

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and that's one of the reasons they're being punished because

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it's like, what are you doing, fucking idiots? You know,

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like that's not there's like a tone definis there. But

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that's part of the thing. That's that's part of the whole

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narrative too, because I've made this point again and again

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and recently, uh i I I dressed down somebody for it.

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And like in real life, there's this Greek chorus of

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like self styled intellectuals and academic types and they love

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to they love this cliche saying, well, everybody knows fascists

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are anti intellectual. No, the cliche, even among the ops

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of the right, is you're a bunch of disturbed freaks

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who spend all your time with esoteric ideologies and artistic

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movements that nobody cares about because you know, you think

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that ideology Trump's human dignity. Hitler was literally an artist. Okay,

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the NFDAP was populated by guys who sat around reading

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Dietrich Eckart. Like in contrast, the left are people like,

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my body, my choice, what do I do with my

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penis is the most important thing in the world. You know,

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you're a racist. It's it's literally dumb, dumb, moron bumper

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sticker stuff, you know, hedonic narcissism passed off as some

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kind of ideology. It is literally the definition of anti intellectualism,

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you know, and that's being exposed, like people are realizing,

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among other things, there's like nothing to this. It's Charlie

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Kirk made me mad because I like this kind of

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pornography and he said that's bad. Or I don't go

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to church. I have no ethnic background, I have no culture.

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You know. To me, life is sex and buying stuff.

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And he said women should get pregnant. It's my body.

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Fuck him. It's literally on that level.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when they find one of these people, when they

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finally find wherever they've been nesting, they don't find Graham

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she they don't.

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Speaker 2: Find Harry Potter in pornography.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there. It's so funny that people think that

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they're like, oh, they were they went to college, and

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they wouldn't you know. I saw a leftist saying, oh

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that he went to college, he wouldn't you know in

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college he would have learned I'm like, what what would

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he have learned in college?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Reading reading some book by some lady from North

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Africa who's a self identified radical lesbian talking about the

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Taliban is mean, so like that that means that he's

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he's educated. But I mean it's like the I mean

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it's also too I mean, I'm old enough, you know,

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I'm almost fifty years old. I spent my youth debating

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guy who were like actual maoists, you know, who like

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threw Molotov cocktails in the sixties because they were insane.

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But they also were very smart people, and being in

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Chicago that was a ground zero for that kind of stuff.

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So I'd run into these guys, you know, like when

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Loyola would have some symposium for political theory students and

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there'd be some crazy Jewish guy University of Chicago, you know,

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trying to dress down me and the other guys he

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identified as right wing. All right, these guys were incredibly

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bad people, but they were also very smart, and all

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they did was sit around when they weren't raising hell,

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they were sitting around reading hagel And and reading you know,

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Dusk Capitol, and they had this whole They had a

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very nuanced worldview which was premised completely onfallacious epistemic priors.

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But they weren't morons whose life evolved around their keenness,

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who had the mentality of a retarded baby and saying

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you should die because you said bad word. I mean

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that that's the difference. You know. It's like where where

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is this left wing intellectualism? Like some white trash girl

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who was like in college learned that men are trying

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to make her get pregnant so she's outraged. Or some guy,

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some guy who decided he's like a sports team mascot,

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transsexual who hates conservatives and who oho, well you're gay. Yeah, okay, real, real, real,

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real weighty stuff there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean yeah. It was one of those

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things that I didn't think it would, you know, affect

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me something like that. And I was actually had just

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finished recording with doctor Matthew Raphael Johnson, and we had

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just cut the recording and his wife jumped in the

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room and was like Charlie Kirk got shot and we're

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both like what, wow.

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Speaker 2: I thought this a friend of mine. He was on

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the road like one of the fellas, you know, he

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was passed with the Chicago So I told him at dinner.

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We hung out and then like I bad him farewell

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like that Tuesday, and then uh, on Wednesday, he texted

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me and he's like, Charlie Kirk got shot. Like I

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thought he was talking about some guy. I'm like, who's

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Charlie Kirk. I mean, I knew about themous Charlie Kirk.

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I thought I thought he meant like some dude we know,

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and I'm like who He's like, no, you know, Charlie Kirk.

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Turning point. I'm like I'm like, no, way, like why

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and why did somebody shoot him? And then like I'm

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like wow, that's yeah. It was surreal, man, you know.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, it really points to the fact that,

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I mean, this is this is what they think is radical.

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They think what Charlie was out there to. I mean,

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Charlie was willing to have conversations with anybody, well even

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the people were not willing to have conversations with everybody.

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Speaker 2: No, No, that's why. I mean, obviously he was looking

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ahead dude, I think I think, hey, he continued on

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this trajectory. I think he viru well could have become president.

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And media is where you come up through these days. Okay,

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and he yeah, but the but I don't know, Like

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I said, these people are who are seal clapping over

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his murder that I don't even think they ever consumed

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his content. I mean, even like the Trump arrangement syndrome,

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people they say really weird things that it tells me

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like the it's just it's just like a it's like

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an our. I mean, I realize in metaphor is overstated,

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but it's like in the movie version where Goldstein's on

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the screen and these peoples go berserk, like this one

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will leaves like throwing your shoes. This one guy is

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like shaking because he's like flying into the house title rage,

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Like you can't even hear what Goldstein's saying. It's just

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like there's Goldstein's like he's responsible for, you know, the

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reason why you can't afford a gain on of milk,

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Like he's he's why you know you've gotta take cover

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from missile attacks in the city. He's why you know

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you're you don't have good healthcare or whatever like it

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or whatever these people prioritize, like TDR TDS is the

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same thing. It has nothing to do with Trump himself.

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Maybe maybe Trump's a piece of shit. Maybe he's not.

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I don't think a highly Donald Trump, but it's some

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he's some stand in for that, the that the curated

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rage objects within these people's pre rational mind, you know,

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And I mean, frankly, no American president is really that

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important these days. You've got something wrong with you if

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you're becoming literally enraged at a political figure, especially Trump.

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He's the guys. The guy's a game show host, you know,

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quite literally, you know, Like I his campaign was significant

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for what it represented. And I'm not saying he's a trivial

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figure in the historical process because he's not. Okay, And

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a lot of time guys aren't particularly good people or

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or deep thinkers or people who exhibit great moral fortitude

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do play significant role in this orgal process. He's one

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of those people. I'm not saying he's not. But if he's,

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if he's literally triggering rage within you, you've got something wrong

359
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with you. It has nothing to do with him. It

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has to do with a curated response and a psychological

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environment where people have this abject need to externalize this

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negative emotional energy almost almost like expelling body fluids, like

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I'm not kidding, And that's cultivated this kind of pressure

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cooker emotional uh and psychic violence that that people are

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subjected to day and day out, and that they that

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that has a poisoning effect on their sensibilities and emotional intelligence.

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But also this this this, this this psychotic rage that's curated.

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You know, it's all part of the same process. And

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it makes no rational sense to respond that way to

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some political figure. I remember, it's probably way inn in

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Yahoo and without without saying dumb things, they're gonna get

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me a it from the police or something. I don't

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think highly of mister net and Yahoo and I I

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wouldn't be sad if something bad happened to him, Okay,

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but when I see his face on TV, I don't

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go berserk. Okay, I don't. I don't. I don't find

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a rageous at the mention of his name. You know. Uh,

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So there's we're talking about something that really has nothing

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to do with with with with ideological commitments or political

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sympities as we know it. But yeah, we get into

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the subject matter in a minute. I just want to go.

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I thought that was important.

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Speaker 1: The best people like yah who deserve an eye roll

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just like uh again.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and it's and it's also I mean, uh, I mean,

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don't get me wrong. I I I feel very strongly

387
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about the fortunes of our people and those and our

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political allies. And I know that some people don't understand that,

389
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and that makes them mad. I mean, I don't care

390
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about that. But you know, I'm not saying you should

391
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be some totally dispassionate robot or something, but you know

392
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the but but this kind of targeted rage at public

393
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official dum is not rational. Now. Plus, these people don't

394
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have skin in the game, man, I mean, that's the

395
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whole point. It's it's pure ego. It's pure narcissism. You know,

396
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,480
you're you're in a rage at Donald Trump because you

397
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feel he hasn't validated what you do with your penis enough.

398
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You know, you're he said bad words. He's not uh,

399
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he's not genuineflecting before you know that before the corpse

400
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,279
at George Floyd adequately, I mean, like he's not. Trump

401
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didn't rape your mother, he didn't burn down your church.

402
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:41,720
He's not he's not. Uh, he's not commanding a battalion

403
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:48,119
of of uh of of of you know, volunteers were

404
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ethnically cleansing your village. You know, you're literally enraged because

405
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,559
he transgressed some matter of ego oftener relating to sexuality

406
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or or some parapheel you or something you identify as

407
00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:06,640
like some core part of yourself, and that that enrages you.

408
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I mean, it's like how I'm any normal adult would

409
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be embarrassed at the prospect of appearing that way in

410
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the eyes of others. You know. It's it's it's it's

411
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quite literally a kind of mass mental illness, you know.

412
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And that's that's important to keep in mind. And that's

413
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also why it's important. Don't these people don't weren't engaging

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00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:34,119
with you know, they they don't have a position that

415
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deserves a hearing or anything like that, you know. I mean,

416
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in contrast some of our enemies, do you know, these

417
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people do not. They're they're the scum of the earth.

418
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And uh, like I said, they're they're literally functioning on

419
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the level of monkeys if monkeys could talk, that's what

420
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,720
they'd be. Without the malice. I don't. I don't think.

421
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,319
I don't think monkeys are malicious like that. What you know?

422
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:04,079
Otherwise I stand by it all right when jumping, Yeah,

423
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,960
I think, uh, I think. Last time I was discussing, uh,

424
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Wagner's law. Yeah, I realized, I realized the pronounced Wagner.

425
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But you know, with an American academic nomenclature, it's it's

426
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,359
it's Wagner off Adolf Wagner, it off Wagner, you know,

427
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,960
and good stuff on smaller we're probably the most relevant

428
00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:36,920
German economists of the nineteenth and early twentieth century, and

429
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:43,119
like Schumpeter, a lot of Sombart's work product was dedicated

430
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:49,480
to discussing the relationship between state activity, public expenditures, national

431
00:26:49,519 --> 00:27:00,400
income and GDP. You know, increasing state activity and public

432
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:06,920
expenditure related to or facilitating that activity increases as national

433
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,400
income arises. That's Wagner's law. The shoppinger made the same

434
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,000
point in Capitalism, Socialism, and democracy, and this appears to

435
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,119
be the case. Like I said, if you read mainstream

436
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:28,119
economics textbooks, basically Milton Friedman adjacent stuff and most of

437
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:33,440
the what's considered the essential canon of neoliberal theory it'll

438
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,240
say that the jury is out in Wagner's law. There

439
00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:39,079
is a lot of empirical data substantiated, particularly this one

440
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:43,759
broad based study I think I mentioned from eighteen ninety

441
00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:48,240
one to nineteen fifty one approximately. The focus was on

442
00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:52,640
the United Kingdom, but there was a lot of parallel

443
00:27:52,920 --> 00:28:00,319
data curated about the United States from the Guildy John

444
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,920
Ward and this this seems to be the case, Okay,

445
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,359
But people can argue. If people in the comments want

446
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,720
to argue about that, that's fine, And I'd be willing

447
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,880
to engage anybody who wants to on a debate of

448
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,039
Wagner's law, but I don't want to get into that

449
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:19,279
right now. But there's a sociological aspect here that can't

450
00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:26,759
be denied. Okay. The Wagoner's law, like all these principles

451
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,960
that are discussed in causative terms leading to socialism, and

452
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:37,400
it's closely tied to industrialization, the development of an industrial economy.

453
00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:39,960
It's going to be accompanied by an increase here of

454
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,319
public expenditure and gross national product. There's never an instance

455
00:28:44,319 --> 00:28:49,160
where that didn't happen. Okay. It changes people's conceptual horizon

456
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,319
of economics, as well as the role of the state. Okay,

457
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,880
And that's one of the reasons why, you know, people

458
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:02,240
make a lot of especially not just on Mesians. And

459
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:04,400
I know I bring up on Mesians a lot as

460
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,240
people representing a counterpoint. I don't want people to think

461
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,400
I'm strong manning them on Meesians or something, but it's

462
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,000
relevant to this discussion, especially a lot abou Mesians as

463
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,720
well as free market types like neoliberal free market advocates.

464
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,480
They like to claim that people like Schumpeter at Bernard

465
00:29:20,519 --> 00:29:24,839
Sombart were social or people like Schumpeter and people like

466
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,160
James Burnham like, oh, they were these hardline socialists. You

467
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,160
can't invoke them in discussing capitalist economics because they've got

468
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,960
conceptual biases. They're not understanding everybody with some kind of

469
00:29:38,039 --> 00:29:45,160
interventionist in this era, you know. And to be fair, Sombart,

470
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,279
like Schumpeter, he wasn't saying this is a good or

471
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:50,799
a bad thing, Don't get me wrong. He had a

472
00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:54,839
Spanglarian view of the German model of socialism. That's why

473
00:29:54,839 --> 00:29:57,680
he qualified it by talking about German socialism, which was

474
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,880
a stand in terminology really for what Spaniel called ethical

475
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:07,519
socialism or Prussian socialism. But this was a structural reality, okay.

476
00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:11,599
And there were there were there were no parties in

477
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:17,480
Western Europe that didn't have some socialist aspect and structural

478
00:30:17,559 --> 00:30:21,720
terms to their program, okay. And even in America, and

479
00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:27,720
we'll get to this, a lot of the sources of

480
00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:33,359
tension that Somber predicted in the American situation, and you know,

481
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,359
the first years of the twentieth century, these things were

482
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,519
very much taken up by the New Dealers, okay, and

483
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:43,279
by Huey Long and by others. And a lot of

484
00:30:43,319 --> 00:30:47,720
the however, performative of a lot of the New Deal

485
00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:51,200
program was and in macroroconomic terms, I think a lot

486
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:54,279
of these initiatives actually prolonged the depression. You know, I

487
00:30:54,319 --> 00:30:57,480
agree with Murray Rothbart in that regard. But that didn't matter.

488
00:30:57,559 --> 00:31:00,640
It was a matter of perception, okay. And the fact

489
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:07,880
of the matter is, even the doctrinally anti socialist America

490
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,359
in the era, you know, the first half of the

491
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:16,720
twentieth century, this was a defining characteristic of electoral politics, okay.

492
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:22,119
So it can't be denied. And Wagner's law, which was

493
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:30,400
accepted essentially in totality by Sombart, was that there's there's

494
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:37,200
basically three causes of this phenomena and the trajectory of

495
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,759
political economy and industrialized states. There's sociopolitical causes, there's truly

496
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:46,839
economic causes, and there's there's physical causes. So what are

497
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:50,720
we talking about sociopolitical We're talking about as state social

498
00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:54,839
functions expand over time, you know, whether we're talking about

499
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,680
old age pensions, a tax regime you know, that is

500
00:32:00,759 --> 00:32:06,920
dedicated in comparatively disproportionate terms relative to previous epochs, towards

501
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:15,359
things like military readiness, you know, responses to natural disasters,

502
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,039
you know, be them of a fiscal in market nature

503
00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:26,519
or of you know, like a literal natural disaster. You know,

504
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,519
that plays into the equation economic. We're talking about scientific

505
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:36,200
and technological advances that increasingly become incorporated into the repertoire

506
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:43,599
of you know, available resources at the state's disposal, which

507
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:46,960
then in turn can be said correctly or not, or

508
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:53,400
accurately or not to eliminate uncertainties and thus promote efficiency

509
00:32:53,559 --> 00:32:58,160
in state intervention, rather than the contrary, which obviously you know,

510
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,640
efficient allocation at capital and the inability of the state

511
00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:08,359
or any public actor to predict these things, you know,

512
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,839
which are spontaneously emergent variables at the macro level in economics,

513
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:20,640
you know, that's that's obviously an issue. And the physical

514
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:27,119
state of the government's ability to intervene, fund and otherwise

515
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:31,119
maintain this well for apparatus, you know, the sub totally

516
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:38,200
government debt, expenditures, interest rates, things like that, the fixed

517
00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:42,480
capital and how these things can be utilized to realize

518
00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:49,359
these things. All that plays that obviously to the physical aspect.

519
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,559
And like I said, the empirical evidence has been mixed.

520
00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:56,200
You know, the most persuasive that study that I cited

521
00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:00,400
it was I can't remember who commissioned it. I either

522
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:08,519
can't remember or I never conclusively identified what institution was

523
00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:13,239
emergent from. But Alan T. Peacock and Jack Weisman were

524
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:27,800
credited with that with that project. The you know, and

525
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:33,159
there's also of major one of the reasons why that

526
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:39,920
aforementioned study was commissioned related to Wagner's law, is a

527
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:46,719
concept in political economy called the displacement effect, and it's

528
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:55,920
almost axiomatically related to warfare and national mobilization. The displacement

529
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,159
effect refers to when an earlier and lower tax and

530
00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:03,360
expenditure levels are going to punctuate in a sudden way,

531
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:11,199
replaced by new and higher budgetary expenditures and allocations. You

532
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,440
know that those tend to remain owing to people becoming

533
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:20,440
sociologically habituated, but also outlays of a way of becoming permanent.

534
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:25,800
Because there's not at scale of a national government with

535
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,239
all these attendant sort of lesser bureaucracies serving it in

536
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,199
a top down way, there tends to not be an

537
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,880
expedited way to call these things. You know, that's obviously

538
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,760
that was I mean, Elon mustn't phrase it that way,

539
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,679
but that was the core theory behind something like Doge

540
00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:56,239
wasn't misguided, how I mean, we can argue over whether

541
00:35:57,079 --> 00:36:00,199
those kind of initiatives from the Reagan or Honor have

542
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:05,280
been correctly implemented or not, but it's inarguable the displacement

543
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,079
effected and arguable. Okay, I don't see how anybody could

544
00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:12,719
say otherwise. But you know that's one example too, Frank,

545
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:19,639
we have Sombart and Wagner having it enduring relevance because

546
00:36:20,119 --> 00:36:22,760
they were really the first to take on these issues

547
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,280
in a in a consistent way where you know, there

548
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,239
was a modeling methodology that would be accepted in the

549
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:36,400
present as as legitimate, you know, and and appropriately rigorous

550
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:45,519
and falsifiable. Interestingly, I mean in the anglosphere, not just

551
00:36:45,599 --> 00:36:49,480
in America, but throughout the English speaking world. Sombart's book

552
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:53,639
on America, Why is there No Socialism in the United States?

553
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:59,880
That's his most famous tomay. But his magnum opus was

554
00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:07,280
their modern capitalismuss modern capitalism and the term late capitalism.

555
00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:11,320
It was I can't remember I mentioned this the other week,

556
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:16,440
but it was quite literally coined by Schombart because he

557
00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:23,440
divided capitalist development within his conceptual paradigm into four discrete

558
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,440
stages or phases of development, you know, the early siteration

559
00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:36,159
being feudalism, which develops into proto capitalism as productive means

560
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,239
become you know, applied to value added manufacturers rather than

561
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:49,440
agrarian products exclusively or near exclusively. Then too, you know,

562
00:37:50,599 --> 00:37:57,159
early proto or early capitalism gives way to high capitalism,

563
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,159
what we think of as the today age here in America.

564
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:06,039
And then finally late capitalism, you know, and in the

565
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:15,360
post World War One era that many people identified nineteen

566
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:21,920
eighteen is the onset of late capitalism, you know, and

567
00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:27,719
that that resonated with a lot of people. But I

568
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,760
find that very interesting. There's a lot of schan Bart concepts,

569
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,199
even people who identify as Marxists or I mean actual

570
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,119
Marxist I don't mean. I don't mean Berkeley goofs or

571
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:42,800
Internet people or something. I mean I mean guys like

572
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:48,760
Jackson Hinkel and some of these people who identify as

573
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,880
world systems theory proponents, you know, Emmanuel Valler skiing kind

574
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,599
of stuff. Late capitalism is not just a term, but

575
00:38:58,679 --> 00:39:02,559
a concept that frames their conceptual paradigm. I mean, I

576
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,079
know a lot of them don't realize it's a Werner

577
00:39:05,159 --> 00:39:08,920
Sombart concept. They think it's a they think it's a

578
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,320
Marxian concept. But that's that's significant, you know, And that's

579
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,119
also one of the reasons why congruous with Wagner's law,

580
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:25,920
the displacement effect, the sociological inputs that shape these proximate causes,

581
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:30,159
you know. We that's this is why a lot of

582
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:34,000
people don't understand that state intervention or this odd interdependence

583
00:39:35,199 --> 00:39:42,920
between public officialdom and regulatory mechanisms and uh, you know,

584
00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:46,679
private capital. The line has become totally blurred. It's not

585
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,639
just cronyism, it's not just state capitalism. It's not just

586
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,239
some variant of you know what they called in the

587
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,519
Japanese system, picking winners and losers. All those things are

588
00:39:57,559 --> 00:39:59,440
part of it. But structurally, you know, if there's a

589
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:08,039
deliberate effort to maintain a discrete kind of barrier between

590
00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:12,360
these two locale of power, that's not realistic, you know.

591
00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:15,920
And this is why Burnham I mean, obviously Burnham was

592
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:21,760
a sociologist, not an economist, but modern political economy is

593
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:29,000
axiomatically sociological. And when Burnham was talking about the managerial state,

594
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,840
that's got implication. That's got profound implications for political economy, okay,

595
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:40,800
And so it's neither here nor there whether that's a

596
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,280
good or a bad thing. It's a I mean, yeah,

597
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,159
obviously it's well placed to talk about insidious aspects of

598
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:53,199
modern government. But this idea that there's some alternative mechanism

599
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,079
where the modern state would be structured differently, that's not realistic.

600
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,480
And it's it's also I mean, yeah, we'll all be

601
00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:06,360
you and I and everybody watching this right now will

602
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,760
be dust by the time this comes to full fruition.

603
00:41:09,039 --> 00:41:12,519
But as is the subject and part of my manuscript

604
00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:14,440
I'm working on now, and as I'm always saying, and

605
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,280
I'm sure people are sick of it, the West failing state,

606
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,280
and maybe we're probably the post West Failian state. That

607
00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:25,559
entire system is ceasing to exist. It will not exist

608
00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:31,440
in two three hundred years. Okay, So the problem if

609
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,119
you're a Hegelian is at least or if you've got

610
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,760
a tolerance from on timelines that you will not live

611
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,719
to see, because I would hope everybody does. Who's you know,

612
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,679
engaging with this material? The problem is going to take

613
00:41:48,679 --> 00:41:52,360
care of itself. You don't need some reform package to

614
00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:56,119
dismantle the managerial state anymore. They need to plot to

615
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,079
murder a man who's dying of ternal cancer.

616
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 1: You know, could it let me? I've always wanted to

617
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:09,039
ask you when you mentioned that, could technology hasten that end?

618
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? Technology is always the wild card input. You know,

619
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:21,280
future shocks a real thing, and I think, I mean

620
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,320
people don't realize it. I think because obviously the twentieth century,

621
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,920
the future shock was quite a bit more disruptive and punctuated.

622
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:33,239
I mean literally, in the twentieth century, you literally had

623
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:38,000
guys who spent their childhood, you know, growing up in

624
00:42:38,119 --> 00:42:40,599
a house at off I didn't even have an indoor bathroom,

625
00:42:41,079 --> 00:42:44,880
and people got by you know, you know, horse drawn carriages,

626
00:42:45,199 --> 00:42:47,239
and by the time they were not even all that elderly,

627
00:42:47,519 --> 00:42:50,000
there was jet airplanes that you know, was the preferred

628
00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:54,639
mode of travel. That's totally insane. Nothing like that's happened

629
00:42:54,639 --> 00:42:58,519
in the twenty first century. But the information revolution, and

630
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,039
it has changed everything. And that's having a massive psychological

631
00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:09,679
impact at scale, and that's directing political economy in all

632
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,760
kinds of ways. And the most critical thing and not

633
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,840
I don't know if it's written about this, even among

634
00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:19,480
guys who are way smarter than me and deal in

635
00:43:19,639 --> 00:43:23,960
macroagonomic analysis for a living, even guys who are technology experts,

636
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:29,119
you know, who understand macrogonomics and also understand high finance,

637
00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:33,000
the degree to which uncertainties can be eliminated in terms

638
00:43:33,039 --> 00:43:37,760
of market events, and to the second informational awareness has

639
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:43,159
eliminated the potential for panics, you know, like in nineteen

640
00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:48,400
eighty seven for example, that is huge. So you have

641
00:43:48,599 --> 00:43:51,079
this market, you know, and for the record too, I

642
00:43:51,159 --> 00:43:52,599
mean just as an a sud and this doesn't mean

643
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:55,440
shilling with Trump, but it's interesting how markets just like

644
00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:59,039
continue to boom when suppose he terroriffs are gonna like

645
00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:01,800
make us all poor and starving and having to eat

646
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,039
dirt or something. But you know, the degree to which

647
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,719
I mean, don't get me wrong, like the growth can't

648
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,400
go on forever. I'm not saying that, but the degree

649
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,039
to which uncertainties have been eliminated and which in turn

650
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,559
not only allow for efficient delocation a capital in a

651
00:44:20,599 --> 00:44:23,599
way that's never before seen, which in turn obviously facilitates

652
00:44:23,679 --> 00:44:31,480
profitability and plenty, but also it means, you know, panics

653
00:44:31,639 --> 00:44:36,280
born of aggregate uncertainties. That's a thing of the past,

654
00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:41,920
and that changes everything, and that continues to change everything,

655
00:44:43,039 --> 00:44:46,480
you know. And I mean that's just one example. Okay,

656
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,079
So yeah, I don't claim to be an auger or anything,

657
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:55,920
but these sorts of historical features, the very bare bones

658
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,760
historical features of humans and how they behave politically, and

659
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,840
and you know, based on the precedent of the preceding

660
00:45:03,519 --> 00:45:07,559
you know, ten centuries, if we want to use this

661
00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:12,719
Spanglarian timeline of you know, the West is a coherent

662
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,360
culture for being emerging around one thousand AD. Based on

663
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,679
all of those things, based more approximately on the present

664
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:27,199
of the twentieth century globalism is replacing the post was

665
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,360
failing in order in a way that's comparatively rapid. And

666
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,079
this will be fully realized within a couple of centuries

667
00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:37,000
in my opinion, maybe more like three centuries, but I

668
00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:40,480
think it'll probably happen in about two. And yeah, obviously

669
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:45,119
there's some sort of punctuated event, whether it's like a

670
00:45:45,199 --> 00:45:50,159
toue natural disaster or something, or whether it's some sort

671
00:45:50,199 --> 00:45:57,320
of game changing technological innovation or neither, but something that

672
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,760
for whatever reason is the ability to impact you know,

673
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:08,280
either the availability of essential commodities that fuel the economy,

674
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,519
the number of which you are increasing too, I mean

675
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:15,159
things are Yeah, there's a great that that's that's the

676
00:46:15,519 --> 00:46:18,880
part of the dichotomy of economic development. You know. Efficiency,

677
00:46:19,559 --> 00:46:23,119
It's like you can make okay, you can get like

678
00:46:23,199 --> 00:46:25,559
more power out of like a four cylinder engine now

679
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,159
than like you used to get out of like a

680
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,559
top of the line va. It's insane, you know, like

681
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:33,239
you want of horsepower you can squeez out of the

682
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,159
add only to more efficient engineering, you know. And obviously

683
00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:39,519
you know the switch to electric and stuff is you know, sparing.

684
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,599
You know that the need for petroleum. But there's this

685
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,760
variacious need for other commodities and the need to exploit

686
00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:54,719
resources and greater depth and at greater scale to facilitate

687
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:59,239
these things. That's just inevitable, you know. So it's uh.

688
00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:02,639
But at the same time, you know, and I'm not

689
00:47:03,559 --> 00:47:09,639
I'm not some I'm not some neoliberal economists, as I mean,

690
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,239
I think anybody knows that I'm I'm certainly not somebody

691
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:17,039
who has some abiding faith in the experts to model

692
00:47:17,079 --> 00:47:22,000
solutions everything you know, in any endeavor or subject area.

693
00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:27,639
But I do believe, and don't get me wrong, modeling

694
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,119
is not some end all be all in economics, but

695
00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:35,440
there is a place for it in some in terms

696
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:40,440
of devising some predictive metrics, and I that makes it

697
00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:45,239
easier to negotiate a true crisis than before, you know.

698
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:52,719
But again, I don't something like, uh, the Great Depression

699
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,159
isn't possible anymore. That doesn't mean there couldn't be some

700
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:03,480
utterly catastrophic event, you know. And I think a shortage economy,

701
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:12,440
especially in and some places on this planet where logistical

702
00:48:12,519 --> 00:48:17,159
structures are tenuous at best and are susceptible to break down,

703
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,639
that's gonna become a reality in a way that people

704
00:48:20,679 --> 00:48:24,119
aren't really used to in the developed world, you know,

705
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,639
but I there's not gonna be and there could be

706
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:34,000
some catastrophic political event, you know. Uh, I mean obviously

707
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,599
everything changes within the globalst paradigm because you're not talking

708
00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:39,519
about states facing off at scale and all that entails.

709
00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:43,079
But there could absolutely be some catastrophic political event of

710
00:48:43,159 --> 00:48:46,440
a war and peace kind of nature that causes some

711
00:48:46,599 --> 00:48:49,480
huge disaster, you know, like I don't know even if

712
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:52,960
I don't see this happening, but it's not impossible. Let's

713
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,880
say there was some sort of mass escalation in you know,

714
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,000
the and you know, in the border in the no

715
00:49:01,119 --> 00:49:04,719
manage land between India and Pakistan or something, and there's

716
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,800
some sort of there's some sort of substantial nuclear exchange,

717
00:49:08,559 --> 00:49:11,800
you know, and uh, like forty million people are wiped out,

718
00:49:12,559 --> 00:49:17,079
and uh there's a big chunk of the subcommunity it's

719
00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:20,280
now a radiated wasteland that would totally fuck everything up,

720
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:26,599
you know, like make a mistake. And again I don't

721
00:49:26,639 --> 00:49:28,400
see that happening, and you can ember write something like

722
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,079
that off, but you know, there's not There's not gonna

723
00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:35,199
be some catastrophic market event like the Great Depression and

724
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:41,480
where you know, in one day, all this uh, all

725
00:49:41,559 --> 00:49:45,079
this fluid capital is just wiped out, and you know

726
00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:50,599
there's uh, this kind of top down uncertainty as the

727
00:49:50,679 --> 00:49:53,920
crisis is underway. I mean that that's not possible anymore.

728
00:49:54,000 --> 00:50:02,320
And unless somehow, you know, the temporary communication grid just

729
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,400
suddenly got wiped out. I mean, that's an interesting counterfactual too.

730
00:50:06,599 --> 00:50:10,760
I promise, I'll I'll stop this derailment in a second.

731
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,480
But you know, in the late in the latest, in

732
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:17,559
the final phase of the Cold War, it was a

733
00:50:17,639 --> 00:50:22,480
foregone conclusion of sec nor ed and and and the

734
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:26,480
Pentagon and and war planners or guys who would gain

735
00:50:26,639 --> 00:50:31,679
scenarios like Thomas Schilling that if the Soviets launched a

736
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,480
bolt on the Blue AsSalt, the the first SELA would

737
00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:42,719
be a submarine launched ballistic missile, a depressed depressed trajectory

738
00:50:44,039 --> 00:50:48,639
which wouldn't trigger early warning, and it'd be air burst

739
00:50:49,519 --> 00:50:52,920
and the e MP would basically blind the East coast

740
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,159
and knock out early warning and telecom, you know, and

741
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:01,800
then presumably you can saturate the target area with with

742
00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:06,559
uh with nuclear strikes and you know, when one fell

743
00:51:06,679 --> 00:51:09,800
swoop and and essentially knock out the kind of the

744
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:17,079
United States, the ability to blind the kind of global

745
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:24,360
communications grid you could, uh, you could really food bar

746
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:28,159
the world economy that way if days went by and

747
00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:31,679
they couldn't get it back online. I'm sure there's backup systems.

748
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,320
I'm sure there's terrestrial backup systems that I don't understand

749
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,639
if I'm not an engineer or a tech guy, but

750
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,719
that that that wouldn't mitigate if you truly, if if

751
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,440
you truly sabotage the ability of you know, America to

752
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,000
communicate with Europe and Asia and the Near East and

753
00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:54,480
vice versa for for say, like a week. You know,

754
00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:57,559
you could like that and of itself would be bad,

755
00:51:57,679 --> 00:52:00,519
but I mean, you know, it wouldn't be catastropic, but

756
00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:05,920
within that operational environment, you could really mess a lot

757
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,039
of things up. And uh, that's something that's not often

758
00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:12,119
talked about. I mean maybe in part because nobody wants

759
00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:15,239
to give anybody ideas, but I you know, I don't,

760
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:21,079
I don't. That's that's definitely not impossible, man. You know,

761
00:52:21,159 --> 00:52:24,159
it's definitely not just like info wars kind of stuff.

762
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:28,199
But but failing something like that, there's there's not gonna

763
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:33,800
be just some spontaneous market collapse, you know, and I stay,

764
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:35,599
I'll die in that hill. And I know some people

765
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:42,760
claim that that's you know, not thought out, but I'm

766
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,679
can assure you what it is thought out. But in

767
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:52,800
any event, you know, the uh And for context too,

768
00:52:54,119 --> 00:52:56,880
Sono Art was viewed in his day and even a

769
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,840
bit beyond is being radically left wing, and he was

770
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,800
considered to be something of a social activist as regards

771
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:12,079
the fortunes of working people. You know that he that

772
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:14,320
that that, you know, and he made these things to priority,

773
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:20,079
you know, and he in his youth when he h

774
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,719
you know, he started out at the University of Bresla,

775
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,719
which at the time was considered somewhat of not so

776
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,199
much a lesser institution. It was kind of out of

777
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,920
the way. It didn't have the same kind of prestige

778
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,800
behind it. But he made a lot of waves with

779
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:44,280
even his early work products. And at that time he

780
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,880
couldn't be called an orthodox Marxist because he was too

781
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:53,000
committed to a true Hegelian perspective. But he did at

782
00:53:53,039 --> 00:53:57,159
the very beginning of his career I identify as a

783
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:02,760
Marxian economist. You know. He quickly stepped back from that

784
00:54:03,079 --> 00:54:07,639
and his more mature works, and then ultimately he broke

785
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,639
all together, saying, you know, Marx made fundamental errors on

786
00:54:12,199 --> 00:54:19,159
critical points of importance, you know, but he getting into

787
00:54:19,199 --> 00:54:24,159
the getting into the subject matter that I intended to

788
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:30,760
why there is no socialism in the United States. It's

789
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:35,280
really interesting because fairly early on in the book he

790
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:41,480
takes on Weber's theory head on, you know, and he says,

791
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:49,000
conventional wisdom is that the Anglo Saxon race is uniquely

792
00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:55,079
averse to socialism, and even the proletariat within Anglophone societies,

793
00:54:55,119 --> 00:55:00,519
and particularly ones founded by where the majority of the

794
00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:04,880
founding stock was, you know, the center Protestant and culture.

795
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:11,239
That the the individualism of these people and their hostility

796
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:19,360
to central planning, you know, defeats any prospect of a

797
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:25,119
nascent socialism emerging. Sombart didn't accept that the first. He said,

798
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,480
you know, there's he said, if you look at the

799
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:35,360
history at England particularly, you know, in the eighteen thirties

800
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,320
and eighteen forties, there was a strongly socialist flavor and

801
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,559
everything that was happening there, and that continued to the

802
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:43,840
then present, you know, it was the early twentieth century,

803
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:54,000
you know, and by the late nineteenth century in America,

804
00:55:55,599 --> 00:56:01,840
the urban proletariat was overwhelmingly German Irish in the big cities,

805
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:07,920
I mean, you know, Slavic Italian. I think the Dad

806
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,880
or that Sombart sites, you know. I think the the

807
00:56:13,079 --> 00:56:19,400
urban American population of around the turn of the twentieth century,

808
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,280
I think only about seven percent of people were Anglophone.

809
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:29,000
You know. They were either Protestant English speakers of you know,

810
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,760
an Anglo or Anglo Irish or Anglo Scottish heritage, or

811
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,920
immigrants from England to Scotland and Northern Ireland. But they

812
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,760
couldn't be said to have the numbers on the ground

813
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:44,239
to be having this positive effect, you know, and especially

814
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:48,599
in places like Chicago or Philly or New York City.

815
00:56:50,519 --> 00:56:52,519
It wasn't a melting pot at all. It was, you know,

816
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:57,599
communities and neighborhoods divided by eth those you know there

817
00:56:57,639 --> 00:56:59,960
were It's not as if these people were somehow assimilated

818
00:57:00,159 --> 00:57:05,840
into some Anglo Saxon the center Protestant mode of culture.

819
00:57:06,039 --> 00:57:07,199
I mean, I don't think that. I don't think is

820
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:13,519
really possible anyway that that's a that that's a that

821
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:17,239
that's a twentieth century kind of mythos, specific mythos. But

822
00:57:19,199 --> 00:57:23,719
you know, there's that there's complexities of a sociological nature

823
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:31,320
that Sombartam identified ass as the as the psychological basis

824
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:38,679
and resistance to socialism. And there's a huge structural factor

825
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,360
too that is interrelated to that. Some are made the

826
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:49,840
point that, uh, public life in America is extraordinarily complicated,

827
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:55,719
the size of the USA, the regularity of elections, the

828
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:01,679
way federalism operates with local political concerns. He said that

829
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,239
the reason why political machines emerged to advance policy initiatives

830
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,760
is because otherwise there's no reasonable way even front informed

831
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:16,760
citizen to you know, to participate in the process in

832
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:21,480
a way that advances a policy initiative. And even people

833
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,079
who organize into what could constan do to a political

834
00:58:25,159 --> 00:58:29,519
action committee and have capital behind them, you know, you

835
00:58:29,719 --> 00:58:34,559
essentially need a political machine to organize policy across dozens

836
00:58:34,639 --> 00:58:38,480
of offices, you know, some of which are going to

837
00:58:38,519 --> 00:58:42,159
be abjectly hostile to each other during election season, even

838
00:58:42,159 --> 00:58:44,559
if they're on the same party ticket for you know,

839
00:58:44,679 --> 00:58:49,039
budgetary reasons, or for reasons of you know, the duties

840
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:52,079
they owe to lobbyists or bankrolling the campaign so he

841
00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:55,159
said that single member districts, coupled with complexity, coupled with

842
00:58:55,159 --> 00:59:00,960
the regularity of elections, this essentially makes it inevitable that

843
00:59:01,039 --> 00:59:07,280
political machines are going to develop, okay, and the probability

844
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,360
of some political machine taking on an overtly socialist platform

845
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:18,199
at odds with the interest of you know, the industrial

846
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:22,159
patrons that that are bank rolling the machine. There's no

847
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:27,199
chance of that happening, you know. But also he made

848
00:59:27,239 --> 00:59:33,800
the point that in America, even even working people, you know,

849
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:39,000
true proletarians. He said that if you're paid living wage

850
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:43,639
in America, you can essentially partake of the same stuff

851
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,039
that a rich man does. I mean within reason, you know,

852
00:59:46,079 --> 00:59:49,239
not somebody that are Andrew Carnegie. But you know, he's like,

853
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:55,039
there's not the same relationship between producers and employees in

854
00:59:55,079 --> 00:59:58,199
America that there is in Europe, you know. And in Europe,

855
00:59:59,119 --> 01:00:01,559
you know, he said, working people not only weren't respected,

856
01:00:02,679 --> 01:00:06,760
but the familiar forms of feudalism were taken on really

857
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:09,559
by the new capitalist delete but it wasn't templed by

858
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,039
nove less oblige. But at the same time, one thing

859
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:20,159
that was retained was this frankly oppressive sensibility, whereby workers

860
01:00:20,239 --> 01:00:25,719
were expected to maintain the distinctions between themselves and their

861
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,760
social betters. You know something that's really interesting to me,

862
01:00:30,119 --> 01:00:33,440
and this might seem like a peculiar example, but it's illustrative.

863
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,199
You ever wondered why the Swiss guards, you know, guard

864
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,320
the Pope, they wear these really wild harlequin outfits. Do

865
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:45,599
you know why that is? I don't, okay. Traditionally in Europe,

866
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,920
during throughout the feudal era, there was what's called sumptuary laws.

867
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:53,440
If you were a peasant, you could only dressed a

868
01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:55,719
certain kind of way, you can only wear certain colors,

869
01:00:56,719 --> 01:00:59,440
you couldn't bear arms, you couldn't like carry a sword

870
01:00:59,519 --> 01:01:02,599
or a blade on you, and there were certain articles

871
01:01:02,639 --> 01:01:06,800
of clothing that marked out, you know, lesser nobility, greater nobility,

872
01:01:07,159 --> 01:01:13,519
you know, knights, what have you. The people who eventually

873
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:17,000
these laws just kind of faded, you know, as as

874
01:01:17,039 --> 01:01:20,519
the modern age set in in earnest But during the

875
01:01:20,639 --> 01:01:23,599
Thirty Years War and the Swiss Guards, they traced their

876
01:01:23,639 --> 01:01:26,480
heritage of the Thirty Years War because the Swiss produced

877
01:01:26,519 --> 01:01:30,440
the best mercenaries. If you were a man under our

878
01:01:30,519 --> 01:01:33,039
arms in the Thirty Years War, it was almost certain

879
01:01:33,119 --> 01:01:36,159
you were going to die. And also there had to

880
01:01:36,199 --> 01:01:38,719
be incentives to join up and basically serve as a

881
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,880
mercenary because privateers were the core of infantry in the

882
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,159
Thirty Years War. You know, like some duke or some

883
01:01:45,519 --> 01:01:49,079
barren raising a battalion or whatever, you were exempt from

884
01:01:49,119 --> 01:01:53,039
the sumptuary laws. So thirty Years wore mercenaries. They basically

885
01:01:53,159 --> 01:01:55,079
were like they dressed like mob guys, you know, like

886
01:01:55,159 --> 01:01:57,239
y Accusa for the day. They were like really wild

887
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,719
loud clothes basically to mark themselves out and because they could,

888
01:02:02,719 --> 01:02:05,559
you know, so the Swiss guards took to wear in

889
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:09,360
these crazy harlequin outfits and that kind of became their trademark.

890
01:02:10,199 --> 01:02:14,559
You know. So the guys guarding the pope they still

891
01:02:14,599 --> 01:02:17,360
like wear those kinds of clothes. Like those guys are badasses.

892
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,639
They'll like tear you apart if you like make you

893
01:02:20,679 --> 01:02:22,400
don't make fun of them and be like you're just

894
01:02:25,519 --> 01:02:28,079
I hope nobody would do it anyway, because that kind

895
01:02:28,079 --> 01:02:29,760
of you know, guys in that role as their respect.

896
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,239
Speaker 1: But you know that I like that they carry MP five.

897
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:35,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, they're they're just cool. I think I

898
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:37,519
read this whole I read this whole thing on them

899
01:02:37,559 --> 01:02:40,559
because they became I think it was when Ram Singer

900
01:02:40,639 --> 01:02:42,599
became the pope. He was an interesting guy, you know,

901
01:02:42,719 --> 01:02:45,559
and uh I started reading about the Swiss Guards and

902
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,679
like it's its whole interesting thing. But uh, like the

903
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,039
Vatican City is interesting, like what goes on in there,

904
01:02:51,159 --> 01:02:53,280
Like I just think it's cool. There's because like it's

905
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:55,679
healing to me because I'm I'm I'm this you know,

906
01:02:55,840 --> 01:03:00,639
kind of anglophone, Midwestern frod type the like. And any event,

907
01:03:01,079 --> 01:03:05,880
that's just one example whereby these distinctions of a hedonic

908
01:03:06,039 --> 01:03:12,119
and very very personal nature were maintained to distinguish between

909
01:03:12,239 --> 01:03:16,840
class and in Europe this created real dysfunction as people

910
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:20,320
tried to sustain that system for among other reasons, as

911
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:24,239
a control mechanism to mitigate the potential for a radical

912
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:28,679
consciousness emerging the proletariat. But this led to really bad outcomes.

913
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,440
But the you know, in America, obviously that wasn't an issue.

914
01:03:32,599 --> 01:03:35,960
So and people wouldn't begrudge you having money like they

915
01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:38,880
view had it. I mean, frankly, like the in america's

916
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,559
good to have money, you know. Yeah, there's like nby

917
01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:46,480
and stuff and some ugly sociological tendencies that were kind

918
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:48,440
of ingrain in America, but that I was gonna look

919
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:50,599
at a working guy who's doing well, who's like getting

920
01:03:50,679 --> 01:03:54,320
paid and being smart with his money, who buys nice stuff,

921
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,000
and it's gonna be like, you know that that's out

922
01:03:56,039 --> 01:03:58,599
of order, Like you shouldn't be doing that, you know, obviously,

923
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,800
you know, but that's yeah, I guess we're coming up

924
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:08,840
in the hour. I'll uh three, what's that? Do it?

925
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: Part three?

926
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 2: Yeah? I And I promise, well, well, I didn't mean

927
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:13,880
to take up so much time on that sort of

928
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,079
ancillery stuff, and I thought it was important. But we'll

929
01:04:16,719 --> 01:04:18,679
we'll wrap up somber in the next episode and we'll

930
01:04:18,719 --> 01:04:21,480
get into the Frankfurt School and some of these things

931
01:04:21,519 --> 01:04:24,880
that Graham's and a Dorno who you know. I think

932
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,760
a lot of people read stuff like Buchanan's Death of

933
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,880
the West It was Time Me Wrong. That's a good book,

934
01:04:31,239 --> 01:04:34,320
but they develop kind of an oversimplified view of the

935
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:38,280
Frankfurt School and a lot of these post Marxist radicallydeologies,

936
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,599
and they paid all sorts of tendencies with the broad

937
01:04:41,679 --> 01:04:45,760
brush of cultural Marxism, and that's not conceptually accurate. So

938
01:04:46,119 --> 01:04:50,440
we'll get into that and again I I I apologize

939
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:54,400
if I took too much time on discussing the you know,

940
01:04:54,679 --> 01:04:58,559
the the tragedy of last week and stuff. I just thought, uh,

941
01:04:58,880 --> 01:04:59,960
it should be acknowledged.

942
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:04,599
Speaker 1: No, I think people, uh, people want to hear exactly

943
01:05:04,679 --> 01:05:07,840
what you have to say about it, because yeah, I

944
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,559
mean it affected it affected me differently and I thought

945
01:05:10,559 --> 01:05:18,199
it would so yeah. But anyway, give your substack and

946
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,280
your your website will get out of here.

947
01:05:22,639 --> 01:05:25,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I Uh, the best place to find my content's

948
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:30,159
on substick. It's real Thomas seven seven seven dot substick

949
01:05:30,239 --> 01:05:33,519
dot com. My website's number seven each one me as

950
01:05:33,599 --> 01:05:36,480
seven seven seven dot com. And on social media for

951
01:05:36,559 --> 01:05:38,559
the time being, We'll see how long that lasts because

952
01:05:38,559 --> 01:05:42,199
they love the censor me. But you know, you can

953
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:44,519
you can find my you can find my Twitter, my

954
01:05:44,679 --> 01:05:49,119
ex from substack, on my Instagram. I mean, I'm a

955
01:05:49,199 --> 01:05:52,880
lot of places, but the best place to find, you know,

956
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,159
my dedicated content like my long form stuff and the

957
01:05:56,280 --> 01:06:00,920
podcast and other things is on substack. So please visit

958
01:06:01,039 --> 01:06:04,320
there and engage, you know, we gotta. We've also got

959
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:08,280
a pretty active check community there too, you know, and

960
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:10,079
if you're if you're one of us. You're mother, welcome,

961
01:06:11,199 --> 01:06:11,400
thank you.

962
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:12,639
Speaker 1: Tom said that next time.

963
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 2: H m hm