Speaker 1: You're listening to KFI six on demand. Bob, Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Jesus Christ Show. Yes, hi, well hi, do you
Speaker 1: have a question? Yes, well, how can I help you?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: My question is is with regard you were talking about
Speaker 3: Satan and evil and so forth, and it's often been
Speaker 3: said that the reason why evil exists is because without
Speaker 3: evil there can be no claim to virtue.
Speaker 1: On this earth.
Speaker 4: Yes, well, well I.
Speaker 3: Don't know about that, because it seemed like in heaven
Speaker 3: when there was the third of the angels that rebelled,
Speaker 3: there was evil in heaven because they were rebelling against God.
Speaker 3: So once we're resurrected into heaven, what is to prevent
Speaker 3: that from happening all over again? Because if there's no
Speaker 3: potential for evil, then there can be no claim the
Speaker 3: virtue in heaven either, because there will be no choice
Speaker 3: in heaven.
Speaker 1: Well, no, that's I can see where you get that.
Speaker 1: But there's more to it than that. Heaven in its
Speaker 1: final state all when all is said and done, here
Speaker 1: is the completion or the fulfillment of all those things.
Speaker 1: So imagine it this way, And really what it comes
Speaker 1: down to is the option of the option of evil,
Speaker 1: not evil itself. So you don't need evil, but you
Speaker 1: do need at least the opportunity for people to not
Speaker 1: choose good, to make good have value. But in heaven
Speaker 1: you're talking about the fulfillment of something. Let's say you're
Speaker 1: running a race, Bob. As in that race, you're running
Speaker 1: that race, and then you win that race. At the
Speaker 1: end of the race, you're now the winner of that race. Right,
Speaker 1: are you still running?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Okay, So that race is finished and you've won that race,
Speaker 1: and all of everything that comes with the winning of
Speaker 1: that race is now finalized in that win, and it's done.
Speaker 1: You don't continue to run. And so the confusion is
Speaker 1: when you're looking at heaven in the state prior to
Speaker 1: creation and the fall, and then after the fall, and
Speaker 1: in the state after the fall is the fulfillment. It
Speaker 1: is the finality of all those things that you talked about,
Speaker 1: all those decisions that have been made. So evil isn't
Speaker 1: necessary in itself. What is necessary is the possibility of evil.
Speaker 1: You have to be able to in this world in
Speaker 1: this way, have the ability to reject something in order
Speaker 1: to make it real. Love is only real, Bob, if
Speaker 1: you have the option not to love, Otherwise it becomes forced,
Speaker 1: and that's not what love is. So all those things
Speaker 1: play a part as you're experiencing life on this earth
Speaker 1: in this way, in this time, with a time continuum
Speaker 1: and all of that. But outside of time, when all
Speaker 1: of this is done, you're dealing with the fulfillment of
Speaker 1: hope and the fulfillment of all those things in heaven,
Speaker 1: and there isn't the need for that option anymore. The
Speaker 1: final option has been made, that it's done. Okay. If
Speaker 1: somebody is fearful of a bullet and you shoot them
Speaker 1: with it and you kill them, there is no more fear.
Speaker 1: There will never be fear from that gun again. Ever,
Speaker 1: it's finalized. And so that's kind of what you're dealing
Speaker 1: with in the concept of heaven. You're dealing with the
Speaker 1: finality of things and the final choice to enter into that,
Speaker 1: and that final choice, unto death becomes sealed. But as
Speaker 1: long as you're living, you can go back and forth.
Speaker 1: As long as you're living, you can do good or
Speaker 1: you can do bad, or any of those things. But
Speaker 1: what you decide at that point of death. This is
Speaker 1: why the only unpardonable sin is to blaspheming the Holy Spirit,
Speaker 1: because that's rejecting God unto death, so unto everything, unto death.
Speaker 1: You go back and forth, back and forth whatever. Hopefully
Speaker 1: you don't but you can. But after that point of death,
Speaker 1: then it's sealed. That's the final choice. And now that
Speaker 1: choice is the one that you go into eternity with,
Speaker 1: just like at the end of the race, you don't
Speaker 1: keep running.
Speaker 3: Well, that's when God created created the angels. Then he
Speaker 3: knew ahead of time that a third of them were
Speaker 3: going to rebel and fall.
Speaker 1: Right of course, Okay.
Speaker 3: So he knew that there was going to be something
Speaker 3: imperfect about his creation.
Speaker 1: No, the creation can be perfect. A car can be perfect.
Speaker 1: Let's say there's such a thing as a perfect car
Speaker 1: and get a dent, and you can know it's going
Speaker 1: to get a dent. But it was still created perfect,
Speaker 1: meaning whole. And so that through the because angels are
Speaker 1: believed to have intellect, will and emotion as well. So
Speaker 1: if these angels have intellect, will, and and choose to
Speaker 1: rebel or to reject God's will, then yes, they fall
Speaker 1: in they fall, and in this case they fall into
Speaker 1: the category that you're talking about. And the difference between
Speaker 1: an angel and a human is the angel already had
Speaker 1: all the information that that they're ever going to have
Speaker 1: in their life, whereas you obtain new information over you know,
Speaker 1: the span of your life on earth. So when an
Speaker 1: angel makes that decision, it's final the moment they make it.
Speaker 1: That's why the devil and the fallen angels don't get redeemed.
Speaker 1: That's the equivalent of you at the point of death
Speaker 1: making a decision when an angel does it, because they're
Speaker 1: doing it with the total someome knowledge they're ever going
Speaker 1: to have. It's a lot for the morning, isn't it.
Speaker 4: That's heavy?
Speaker 1: Heavy? Indeed, I'll let just sit with that and mull
Speaker 1: it over, and then you can call back sometime with
Speaker 1: with other thoughts in that In that realm, I know,
Speaker 1: it gets a little weighty, but you can do some
Speaker 1: studying on your own time. The differences that the theories
Speaker 1: being that the difference between man and angels is that
Speaker 1: angels are what they called call it actualized potential. That
Speaker 1: means that everything they can be is actualized the moment
Speaker 1: they are, whereas humans are potential actualized potentials, which is essentially,
Speaker 1: if you think of let's say an eight ounce glass
Speaker 1: that an angel. If an angel was an eight ounce glass.
Speaker 1: That glass would be created full. All the water it's
Speaker 1: ever going to hold is in it the second it's created.
Speaker 1: Whereas humans are created as an empty glass that continues
Speaker 1: to fill throughout their lifetime, taking in new information and learning.
Speaker 1: So different creatures, different consequences, well, similar consequences, but different
Speaker 1: applications throughout their lives, because they come into creation in
Speaker 1: the present of God, and in so doing they have
Speaker 1: all the knowledge they're ever going to have, and the
Speaker 1: decisions they make are final by definition. Whereas this part
Speaker 1: of earth that you experience has a time continuum, and
Speaker 1: you can go through the process of learning and coming
Speaker 1: into new knowledge or rejecting old knowledge, whatever it might be,
Speaker 1: and as you do that, you become smarter and better
Speaker 1: informed and make better decisions. So a difference there, Greece.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Jesus Christ show.
Speaker 5: Good to talk to you this morning.
Speaker 4: Jesus.
Speaker 5: My question for you is actually I love listening to
Speaker 5: you every Sunday.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 5: And along the topic of this and forgiveness and salvation.
Speaker 5: I grew up Catholic, kind of have come back and
Speaker 5: I went to non denominational churches and studied religion and philosophy,
Speaker 5: and I have an open part towards you know, the
Speaker 5: beliefs of all the different churches, because I think that
Speaker 5: there is uh we all have you in comment. But
Speaker 5: if Christ is all salvation, accept that and but continue
Speaker 5: to sin, which we will. I don't know many Christians that,
Speaker 5: even with the change of heart and and wanting to
Speaker 5: follow Christ, that still do not fall short. Obviously, then
Speaker 5: how how's the reconciliation? And I know the Catholic Church
Speaker 5: they have the you know, confession, the sacrament of reconciliation.
Speaker 5: But the Christian Church, I understand obviously it's between God,
Speaker 5: as you said, you know my heart. But when you
Speaker 5: see people that call themselves Christians and they they I
Speaker 5: believe that they've accepted Christ in their lives and as
Speaker 5: we all try to, but they still continue to hate
Speaker 5: a group of people are cause or or and and
Speaker 5: they're not actively really seeking to love everybody, I mean,
Speaker 5: you know, and and for and forgiveness. So it is
Speaker 5: reconciliation like every morning when we wake up. It's obviously
Speaker 5: a constant thing. Or is it that you know? Once
Speaker 5: I said, I believe that Christ is God, that I'm
Speaker 5: forgiven and I don't have to, you know, to to
Speaker 5: search my heart on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: No, it's active, yeah, because well not the salvation part.
Speaker 1: The salvation part, it's not. Uh. It says that that
Speaker 1: God is the author and finisher of your faith. The
Speaker 1: process is going to be done by God, the purification process.
Speaker 1: But you're a participant most assuredly when it says in
Speaker 1: scripture to be a living sacrifice, meaning day to day
Speaker 1: you're going to be working through the nooks and crannies
Speaker 1: of your faith. And that God loves everyone, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean everyone goes to heaven. So you can love
Speaker 1: the world and still judge them. There are things in
Speaker 1: this world that need judging. If people, if righteous people
Speaker 1: don't judge, then there's going to be more problems. So
Speaker 1: it's a balance of taking the things that you do
Speaker 1: know and applying them not in a haughty way where
Speaker 1: you're standing and saying I'm better than all of you
Speaker 1: and I'm judging you, but in a way that's healthy
Speaker 1: and productive. So you should there should be fruit that
Speaker 1: you know, a Christian should bear fruit. But also you
Speaker 1: can see huge ministries that could not give a rodents
Speaker 1: behind about me. They make their money and they do
Speaker 1: their thing and they profess their Christianity and they do
Speaker 1: all that they do, and you could say, well, gush,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of fruit. But it's not just about
Speaker 1: physical or they make money or they have a big
Speaker 1: church or whatever they may have. There's more to it
Speaker 1: than that. There's a practical side to all of it
Speaker 1: and the process. So salvation takes place in that. But
Speaker 1: the process of a difference between sanctification as well, and
Speaker 1: you're setting yourself apart and then you're being purified to
Speaker 1: become holy, is a different part of the process of salvation.
Speaker 1: But as far as being saved, there's nothing you can
Speaker 1: do to earn that. It's the gift of grace is
Speaker 1: given by God and God alone. You merely receive it,
Speaker 1: and only in that act of receiving it and applying
Speaker 1: it to your life does it become real and applied
Speaker 1: and actual. But God does all of that. God knocks
Speaker 1: on the door of your heart. You let God in,
Speaker 1: and that is the process of salvation. The things that
Speaker 1: go on in life are about you working through dealing
Speaker 1: with your humanity. Remember Paul said, the spirit is willing,
Speaker 1: the flesh is weak, and you will be wrestling with
Speaker 1: your humanity throughout the rest of your life as a
Speaker 1: sinner who has sin nature. But there's a difference between
Speaker 1: all of those things and outright rebellion. You know, children
Speaker 1: will make mistakes, children will love their parents and make mistakes.
Speaker 1: But if a child continues down a state of rebellion,
Speaker 1: rejecting all that the parent has to offer and say
Speaker 1: and teach, that's different from going through the the you know,
Speaker 1: natural curiosity and quest for independence as a child. And
Speaker 1: when you see rebellion versus that natural quest, you know
Speaker 1: the difference. And when you're in that state of rebellion
Speaker 1: versus the natural or normal sin nature of human kind,
Speaker 1: then you will see that as well. Martha, Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Jesus Christ Show. Hi, Hi there, How can I you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have I have a question about sitting and
Speaker 2: uh and sect. When I was younger, I was promised
Speaker 2: to a boy and we were promised not to have
Speaker 2: sex before we were married. And he was very very
Speaker 2: very conservative and religious, and he but he kind of
Speaker 2: had another sign to him. I I kind of moved
Speaker 2: away when I went to college, and he he kind
Speaker 2: of decided that because I went away, he could, you know,
Speaker 2: punish me by by making me have sex. With him.
Speaker 2: So essentially, he I mean, he raped me, and I've
Speaker 2: I've since come to terms with it emotionally, but I
Speaker 2: just have a question about you know, sinning and and
Speaker 2: I I don't know if it if you know, did
Speaker 2: as it wasn't a sin to begin with, and I
Speaker 2: have I been forgiven is And I don't want.
Speaker 1: To harbor whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa? Are you
Speaker 1: talking about whether it was a sin that he raped you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: On his end, yes, on your end? No, Okay, absolutely not.
Speaker 1: It's not about this is that is something that was
Speaker 1: forced upon you? Uh huh right, that's what you're telling me. Okay,
Speaker 1: then then how would that be your sin?
Speaker 5: I guess I just.
Speaker 2: After it would happened, he would kind of say that
Speaker 2: I instigate it in some way, that I was kind
Speaker 2: of asking for it.
Speaker 1: So that's very ugly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: Had you guys been doing things that might not have
Speaker 1: and productive, like drinking or drugs or anything like that, No,
Speaker 1: I haven't. No, so what would he call instigating it?
Speaker 2: I guess that I was either being resistant towards him
Speaker 2: if we had been fighting, or if you know, h
Speaker 2: he thought that I was you know, beating him. I guess,
Speaker 2: you know, which I was gonna unfounded. I hadn't been,
Speaker 2: but he then, you know, he knows. He was very
Speaker 2: literal about things, you know, the Ten Commandments and things
Speaker 2: from the Bible. And he would tell me afterwards that
Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter that I had been sinning, even
Speaker 2: if I hadn't wanted wanted to do it.
Speaker 1: He was. He was trying to tell you that you
Speaker 1: had been sinning even though you weren't a willing participant. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: he's not here to defend himself or to give his
Speaker 1: his thoughts on what happened. So I care about you
Speaker 1: because you were you were brave enough to call. I
Speaker 1: would say this, do not harbor that in your heart
Speaker 1: or worry about that at all. If when you are
Speaker 1: truly the victim to somebody pressing something on you like
Speaker 1: that and their will upon you, then it's not you
Speaker 1: are not a wilful participant. When it comes to sin,
Speaker 1: sin simply means missing the mark. There's a mark that
Speaker 1: God has for you, that God wants for you, and
Speaker 1: people make sin to be this huge religious word that
Speaker 1: just sounds it doesn't feel like it has any meaning.
Speaker 1: It's just like a no no, But really it's about
Speaker 1: the plan Martha, that God has for you, and then
Speaker 1: God wants you to follow that plan. And when it
Speaker 1: comes to something like this, it's a matter of it's
Speaker 1: it's not like God's a god of checks and balances
Speaker 1: and he says, well, I told you shouldn't have done this,
Speaker 1: and that's the way it should go and this, and
Speaker 1: it's that's not how God is and that's the purpose
Speaker 1: of it is all for you. All those things are
Speaker 1: to help protect your life, not just that God is
Speaker 1: this huge you know, police officer in the sky saying
Speaker 1: this is the rule here and this is not people
Speaker 1: people do this with all authority. Don't you see that, Martha,
Speaker 1: that even with police officers, they think that the you know,
Speaker 1: law enforcement is you know, trying to bring them down,
Speaker 1: when really they're enforcing laws that are there to protect them.
Speaker 1: And that's what the balance of things are with God.
Speaker 1: And it's not about trying to make you feel shame
Speaker 1: or ugliness. That's a that is a horrible thing that
Speaker 1: happened to you. And to have somebody as horrible as
Speaker 1: it is imply that somehow you have now sinned to
Speaker 1: me is a vulgar display and misuse of faith and
Speaker 1: scripture as well. And I think it's pretty disgusting that
Speaker 1: somebody would do that on top of everything else. So
Speaker 1: don't take the weight of that. I'm proud of you
Speaker 1: that you seem so together, focused and that you understand
Speaker 1: that it was a circumstance and something that happened to you.
Speaker 1: But that is not who you are, you know that, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: You're not defined by that moment. It was something somebody
Speaker 1: did to you. It's not something you are. Okay. Then
Speaker 1: you move forward each day knowing that that you are
Speaker 1: the same creation God. May God has the same plan
Speaker 1: for you. Somebody tried to interrupt that plan by imposing
Speaker 1: their plan, and you continue down the path that you
Speaker 1: started on before that ever happened. Okay, And please don't
Speaker 1: feel any weird guilt or any shame based on something
Speaker 1: that's someone else did. God deals with the heart. It
Speaker 1: says in scripture, fear not he who can kill the flesh,
Speaker 1: but he who can kill the spirit. People can take
Speaker 1: your flesh, as this boy did, but they can't take
Speaker 1: your heart. You can only give that to someone, and
Speaker 1: you've given that to me, not to him. So you
Speaker 1: continue living that way. Okay, yeah, you so much, Thank
Speaker 1: you for calling. There's there's ugly stories that I hear
Speaker 1: all the time about how scripture is misused, and and
Speaker 1: to every story, there are two sides, and as they say,
Speaker 1: and somewhere in the middle is the truth. But when
Speaker 1: I hear of scripture being contorted or twisted to try
Speaker 1: and cover up somebody's own sin, it seems like the
Speaker 1: darkest it's the darkest used. It's there to reflect the
Speaker 1: things that you've done, to reflect light of God on
Speaker 1: you so that you can learn from the things. It's
Speaker 1: not to say people won't make mistakes, and it's not
Speaker 1: to say that there aren't young people that do stupid things,
Speaker 1: and yes, are remorseful, but when they walk in that
Speaker 1: boldness as if there is no remorse or that it
Speaker 1: was somehow, you know, mutual, in that context, it's pretty
Speaker 1: pretty vulgar and a disgusting use of scripture. And we
Speaker 1: also get calls from as we have today, of both
Speaker 1: men and women, although the majority of the time it's
Speaker 1: going to be women, just numbers wise that have been
Speaker 1: molested and or hurt sexually. And I want those words
Speaker 1: that I shared with Martha to resonate with you too.
Speaker 1: You are not that instance, that happening that took place.
Speaker 1: That is not the definition of who you are. And
Speaker 1: there are many times where something ugly can happen, and
Speaker 1: not only do you define yourself by it, but you
Speaker 1: feel that everyone else does and that that ugliness travels
Speaker 1: with you and that it can be seen, and that
Speaker 1: it's written on your face and the way you walk
Speaker 1: and the things you say and what you do, and
Speaker 1: that is up to you. That if you define yourself
Speaker 1: by it, then yes, it will follow you everywhere you go. Nowever,
Speaker 1: if you see it as the circumstance that someone else
Speaker 1: has pushed upon you, and that you are not defined
Speaker 1: by it, and that it's not who you are but
Speaker 1: something that happened to you, is when you will be
Speaker 1: healthier and have the ability to move on in a
Speaker 1: way that brings more light into your life and more
Speaker 1: people of strength into your life. And I see this
Speaker 1: also with illness. There are many people that define themselves
Speaker 1: by the illness they have currently, even if it is
Speaker 1: a terminal illness, it does not define who you are.
Speaker 1: It is something that is happening to you, and it's
Speaker 1: imperative that you as the person who has gone through something,
Speaker 1: whether it is sickness, whether it is something ugly like
Speaker 1: sexual abuse, that it doesn't continue to to taint or
Speaker 1: to define who you are. That is almost like allowing
Speaker 1: the person back into your life over and over and
Speaker 1: over again. And know the difference between real sin, which
Speaker 1: is rebellion against God versus ignorance or situation. What God
Speaker 1: doesn't want is you to go in to things knowing
Speaker 1: that they're against the will of God and willfully desiring
Speaker 1: them and applying them to your life. It has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with things that happen to you. And I
Speaker 1: hope that you know the difference.
Speaker 4: Ron.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Jesus Christio.
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you sir.
Speaker 1: How can I help you?
Speaker 4: Yes, there's been a lot of people talking in recent
Speaker 4: weeks to me about nephilum or Ufo sightings, and.
Speaker 1: I was the neph in Genesis.
Speaker 4: You mean, just in general, I want to know more
Speaker 4: about the definition of dephaline. Are they good embarrassed spirits?
Speaker 4: Are they something's just gonna happen in the end times?
Speaker 1: Well, what have you been hearing? What are what are
Speaker 1: the things that you've been hearing? I'm surprised that people
Speaker 1: are chatting away about the Nephie.
Speaker 4: But well, people say they are spiritual influences all around
Speaker 4: the world, not just here. They're extra terrestrial sightings from
Speaker 4: Russia or China all the way to the United States.
Speaker 4: It's not just in one location. And I know from
Speaker 4: living in four or five different countries that the different
Speaker 4: spiritual influences throughout the world. It's not the same spiritually
Speaker 4: everywhere you go. So I just wanted to educate myself
Speaker 4: and know more about how these spiritual influences pave our
Speaker 4: way in the future, because there's definitely something different. Even
Speaker 4: in the last fifteen years since I moved from Europe.
Speaker 4: Something is different in the world, and I don't know
Speaker 4: if it's good or bad, but it's going towards a
Speaker 4: depression state to me.
Speaker 1: So you think that there's things that are pointing towards
Speaker 1: the world kind of spiraling out of control, and that
Speaker 1: points something to something spiritual.
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, I know in the scripture it says a
Speaker 4: thousand years to us, it's like one day to the Lord.
Speaker 4: So I believe that we lose touch and concept of
Speaker 4: who our creator is and kind of give our own
Speaker 4: influences to our own abilities instead of God. We kind
Speaker 4: of push God to the side and think upon our power, money, military, nuclear,
Speaker 4: and we kind of pushed God to decide and forget
Speaker 4: about them. I believe in past civilizations that's what's happened,
Speaker 4: and I know that's around the world in different places.
Speaker 4: How I grew up in the United States, but I
Speaker 4: mean even thirty years ago, it used to be mom
Speaker 4: and pops. It used to be more family, and all
Speaker 4: of this is kind of dissipated.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but there's cycles of change all the time,
Speaker 1: run all the time. There's cycles of change there. You
Speaker 1: can read writings from a thousand years ago that if
Speaker 1: not for the you know, type of language differences, and
Speaker 1: you would say, oh, that's talking about today. Everyone always
Speaker 1: thinks that things are getting worse when they're living. It's
Speaker 1: just the way it is. People say, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: kids today are worse than they ever were, or music
Speaker 1: today is the worst that everyone. That's just because of change.
Speaker 1: There's a change that people go through as they get
Speaker 1: older that they dislike the things that are newer. It's
Speaker 1: just the way people are. Technology changes and people think
Speaker 1: it's a good thing. Culture changes and people think it's
Speaker 1: a bad thing. Culture is not a constant, it's not static.
Speaker 1: It continues to grow and to change and adapt to
Speaker 1: new things around it. Culture is basically based on the
Speaker 1: things that you have at hand, the food that you
Speaker 1: have at hand, the music you have at hand, all
Speaker 1: these things and those do change throughout the years. As
Speaker 1: far as the nephlum, the nephlum really, i'm not sure
Speaker 1: if that's a specific to this particular conversation, but they
Speaker 1: pop up for those that want to get a little
Speaker 1: read on that in Genesis sixty four and numbers thirteen
Speaker 1: thirty three is where you're going to find them. And
Speaker 1: there is debate as to what the nephilum is, and
Speaker 1: the root word pretty much comes from the term to
Speaker 1: fall or to destroy and in and so a lot
Speaker 1: of people think that it has to do with fallen
Speaker 1: angels and the like, not necessarily clear in the scripture
Speaker 1: at hand. Kf I AM six forty on demand