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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind.

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<v Speaker 2>We pursue wisdom in the past between primary and.

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<v Speaker 1>Second day World. Andrew Snyder, and I'm glad that you're here.

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<v Speaker 2>I've originally been thinking about video games as a medium.

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<v Speaker 2>As I discussed a little bit later in the show,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't play a lot of video games anymore at

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<v Speaker 2>this point in my life. It really dropped off when

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<v Speaker 2>I got married and then especially when I had kids. However,

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<v Speaker 2>I did play a lot as a kid and as

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<v Speaker 2>a teenager of young adult. But as I look back

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<v Speaker 2>at that time, then, on one hand, yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 2>I probably played a little too much video games. I

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<v Speaker 2>wish I read more books when I was younger. But

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<v Speaker 2>at the same time, looking back through the lens of

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<v Speaker 2>where I've come in my literary renaissance over the last

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<v Speaker 2>few years, and I've been spending some time thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>what stories are just to different avenues of pursuing wisdom,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that there is actually a lot of potential

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<v Speaker 2>here in using games in the.

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<v Speaker 1>Right way to gain a level of.

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<v Speaker 2>Enchantment, to sort of expand and to enricher imagination, to

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<v Speaker 2>improve even like technical skills and focus and that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of thing.

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<v Speaker 3>But these ideas are.

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<v Speaker 2>Still very early on in my mind in trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out like exactly what is this medium, what is

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<v Speaker 2>its place as an art form, how can it relate

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<v Speaker 2>to literature or other avenues of the creative endeavors? And

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<v Speaker 2>of course for later this year, I'm working on putting

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<v Speaker 2>together a course on the Elder Scrolls and philosophy, really

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<v Speaker 2>focusing in on specifically Morow and Oblivion and Skyrim, titles

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<v Speaker 2>that are near and dear to me and obviously to

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<v Speaker 2>many others as well. And as I start to put

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<v Speaker 2>these ideas together, I wanted to talk with some people

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<v Speaker 2>who have spent probably a little bit more time than

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<v Speaker 2>I have at this point thinking about just video games

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<v Speaker 2>like as a medium and what they are and what

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<v Speaker 2>potential benefits they can have as well as of course

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<v Speaker 2>you know where they can help us and going wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>And so with that in mind, today I'm talking with

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<v Speaker 2>Master Sam Wise, who was on the show a little

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<v Speaker 2>while ago when we talked about the War of the Row.

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<v Speaker 2>Herem and are joined by Josh Traylor, who is a

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<v Speaker 2>Mythic Mind patron and you'll know him from most of

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<v Speaker 2>the chats on the Poetic get Up. But before we

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<v Speaker 2>jump into that conversation. I do want to thank all

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<v Speaker 2>my patrons for making this and all the various things

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<v Speaker 2>that I do possible. In the last episode, I detailed

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<v Speaker 2>some of where I want to see this going, and

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<v Speaker 2>every patron helps in bringing us in that direction. By name,

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<v Speaker 2>I would like to specifically thank all Tier three patrons

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<v Speaker 2>and higher, and so that's Mark, Chaz Clinton, Aaron Evy,

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<v Speaker 2>Justin who just upgraded, Kyle, Mariah, Paul Tyler William, and

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<v Speaker 2>Chase who just joined on as a patron. Although he

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<v Speaker 2>has been in I think all my courses up to

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<v Speaker 2>this point, and you know him already from the EDA chats.

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<v Speaker 2>Big things are happening in my mind and I would

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<v Speaker 2>love for you to be a part of that, from

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<v Speaker 2>the courses that are already on the schedule to new

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<v Speaker 2>course ideas that are percolating, both from me as well

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<v Speaker 2>as from some other potential creators. We've got some new

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<v Speaker 2>podcast series on the horizons, We've got some new patron

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<v Speaker 2>chat series coming up. There's just a lot of room

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<v Speaker 2>for participation all around. And we just recently announced our

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<v Speaker 2>next several months of patron chats, and so for March

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<v Speaker 2>and April, we assuming no scheduling upsets, we should be

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<v Speaker 2>finishing up the poetic Adam, and then for May and

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<v Speaker 2>June we're actually going to be getting into the Nights

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<v Speaker 2>of the Old Republic one and two, which are most

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<v Speaker 2>certainly the best Star Wars games ever made, some of

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<v Speaker 2>the best Star Wars media easily brought up to potentially

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<v Speaker 2>even arrival the original trilogy. But as I say later

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<v Speaker 2>in the conversation, I'm wtllle hesitant to make that claim,

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<v Speaker 2>but we definitely, I think, better than just about anything

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<v Speaker 2>else that's come out since then, and so we'll be

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<v Speaker 2>talking about that, and then after that, I'm pretty sure

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to be getting into Tolkien's Children of Huron,

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<v Speaker 2>which provides some good connections to some of the things

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<v Speaker 2>we've been discussing with the etic text. And if you'd

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<v Speaker 2>like to take a part in the things that are happening,

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<v Speaker 2>then you can go to patreon dot com slash Mythic Mind,

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<v Speaker 2>sign on at any level to get engaged, become part

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<v Speaker 2>of the patron chats, and just be aware of some

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<v Speaker 2>of the things that are happening. You can participate in

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<v Speaker 2>our brainstorming channel about new ideas, and so that's open

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<v Speaker 2>to anybody, any patrons, but again as a reminder, if

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<v Speaker 2>you sign on as a Tier three annual patron, you

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<v Speaker 2>will also get access to all of my courses, the

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<v Speaker 2>ones that have already been completed, as well as those

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<v Speaker 2>that are coming up ahead. And so again that's patreon

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<v Speaker 2>dot com slash Mythic Mind, and I hope to see

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<v Speaker 2>you there. But for now, let's go ahead and jump

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<v Speaker 2>into our main conversation for today. All right, welcome back

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<v Speaker 2>to Mythic Mind, where today we're gonna do something we

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<v Speaker 2>haven't done so far on the show, and that's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>talk about video games. I'm sure we'll get into some

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<v Speaker 2>specific titles, but you know, really just I want us

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<v Speaker 2>to have a broad level conversation of like what even

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<v Speaker 2>our video games? You know, is it just a waste

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<v Speaker 2>of time? Or is there some value to be had there?

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<v Speaker 2>And given that we're having this conversation, I guess it's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of obvious where we're going to come down on that,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, it might be helpful to start off

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<v Speaker 2>just by talking a little bit about like like some

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<v Speaker 2>of some of our background or experience with games as

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<v Speaker 2>a medium and as a kid, as a teenager, I

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<v Speaker 2>played a good bit, probably more than I should have.

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<v Speaker 2>Kind of wish I read a few more books, but nonetheless,

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<v Speaker 2>in many ways kind of having not having much of

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<v Speaker 2>a literary focus as a kid, aside from what I

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<v Speaker 2>picked up in school here and there, I do kind

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<v Speaker 2>of feel like looking back, games did kind of fulfill

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<v Speaker 2>some of that innate human desire for stories for you know,

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<v Speaker 2>entering into other worlds that that's sort of been chanting,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I think there's something there that can see

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<v Speaker 2>looking back. You know, once I went out on my own,

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<v Speaker 2>once I got married, a lot of that sort of

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<v Speaker 2>dropped off quite a bit. Once I had kids, dropped

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<v Speaker 2>off a lot more to the point where now, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>every once in a while I'll pick up something, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's usually the same something I've been playing for

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<v Speaker 2>ten or more years, because you know, even though I

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<v Speaker 2>picked up a couple of things during a Steam sales

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<v Speaker 2>not too long ago, the reality is, if I have

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<v Speaker 2>a few minutes to pick up a game these days,

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<v Speaker 2>I tend to go for familiarity. But I do think

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<v Speaker 2>that there's something to this question, like.

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<v Speaker 3>What are games? What are their value?

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<v Speaker 2>Does it make sense to bring them to conversation as

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<v Speaker 2>a medium with something like literature. It's what's inspired the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that you know, later on this year, I'm doing

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<v Speaker 2>that Elder Scrolls and philosophy. Course, I'm inclined to have

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<v Speaker 2>this conversation and I'm interested to hear what you all.

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<v Speaker 3>Have to say.

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<v Speaker 2>Sam, I wanted you to tell us a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>about yourself, about specifically your relationship with games.

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<v Speaker 4>Sure, so, yeah, I have, honestly I have. For you know,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm in my early thirties. I have a relatively short

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<v Speaker 4>relationship with video games as a medium. Not that I

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<v Speaker 4>haven't played video games for long. I have played video

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<v Speaker 4>since I was probably six seven years old, maybe a

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<v Speaker 4>little bit older, but it started out and for probably

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<v Speaker 4>the vast majority of my childhood from about you know,

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<v Speaker 4>seven or eight up till sixteen, I probably played backyard

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<v Speaker 4>baseball or backyard soccer. I'm familiar with those old, old

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<v Speaker 4>titles that most likely came in the bottom of cereal box.

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<v Speaker 4>Or I played something like Roller Coaster Tycoon, where you're

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<v Speaker 4>just building and maintaining a theme park, you know. Lego

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<v Speaker 4>Star Wars also came in a little bit later. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>once the family computer was up to the task, so

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<v Speaker 4>it didn't I didn't really start playing games more extensively

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<v Speaker 4>till I was later in high school, and then I

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<v Speaker 4>got I was into things like Call of Duty and

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<v Speaker 4>Star Wars Battlefront and a lot of first person shooters,

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<v Speaker 4>ones that may may may be are not completely devoted value,

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<v Speaker 4>but certainly just have kind of a more entertainment casual nature. Again,

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<v Speaker 4>you can find value in most anything that isn't just

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<v Speaker 4>a complete trash, but in those games are are were

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<v Speaker 4>anyway generally made with with love and care, and they

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<v Speaker 4>the stories they told were were somewhat solid, but nearly

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<v Speaker 4>most of the time was just spent in multiplayer shooting

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<v Speaker 4>other people who are also shooting back at me. So

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<v Speaker 4>it wasn't, honestly until probably after college the last gosh,

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<v Speaker 4>how long will be graduated less than a decade that

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<v Speaker 4>I really started diving into more of the deeper world

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<v Speaker 4>of video games.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 4>So I've played you know, Elder Ring after that came out,

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<v Speaker 4>which is a huge, vast and dark fantasy world, and

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<v Speaker 4>you know the makers all the Dark Souls games, and

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<v Speaker 4>the last few years I've played the God of War

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<v Speaker 4>all the God of War games, and I think the

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<v Speaker 4>second one which were are generally absolutely phenomenal games, and

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<v Speaker 4>they tell a fantastic story. I finally played Red Dead

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<v Speaker 4>Redemption two this last year, which is hard to beat

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<v Speaker 4>when it comes to just the depth of the story

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<v Speaker 4>and the character development. And I think, what what games

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<v Speaker 4>have an advantage over something like, you know, even literature,

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<v Speaker 4>but certainly over television and movies is the depth to

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<v Speaker 4>which they can go because it just because they are

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<v Speaker 4>able to take all this time. Because television, even television

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<v Speaker 4>movies especially, but even TV shows are limited, right, and

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<v Speaker 4>there is kind of a set limit on how long

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<v Speaker 4>they can be. Even in the age of streaming, where

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<v Speaker 4>you can really only be so long, you can only

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<v Speaker 4>do so much. Games don't really have that problem. If

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<v Speaker 4>you look on my channel, you know, the longest my

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<v Speaker 4>longest videos are all about video game characters because they

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<v Speaker 4>you spend so much more time with them. If you

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<v Speaker 4>spend twenty hours or fifty or sixty hours playing through

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<v Speaker 4>a game, you spend so much time with this character,

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<v Speaker 4>you're able to absorb these little details and then you

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<v Speaker 4>get a lot more out of it. So yeah, I

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<v Speaker 4>think basically that's kind of my journey with games is

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<v Speaker 4>it's just in the last less than ten years or

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<v Speaker 4>so where I really come to absorb the value that

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<v Speaker 4>they can have in their ability to tell stories. But

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<v Speaker 4>then there's more to it than that, And there's a

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<v Speaker 4>video I'm planning to do and probably in the distant

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<v Speaker 4>future at this point. And how video games cultivate virtue

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<v Speaker 4>and storytelling is certainly one way, and the ways in

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<v Speaker 4>which they can tell stories that are distinct from books

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<v Speaker 4>and movies are good and definitely to be measured. But

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<v Speaker 4>there are other ways and that they can teach perseverance.

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<v Speaker 4>They can teach, you know, explore and they need to

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<v Speaker 4>the desire to explore and wonder. They can even teach

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<v Speaker 4>the logistical thinking and planning and you know, thinking ahead.

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<v Speaker 4>And if you take up games like factory games where

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<v Speaker 4>you're planning and building you know, a factory, you're collecting resource.

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<v Speaker 4>Theyre all sorts of ways which games can build us.

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<v Speaker 4>It's they're fascinating, basically.

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<v Speaker 3>Good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you said a lot that I have got a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of follow up questions, but first let's let's stop

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<v Speaker 2>over to Josh. Tell us a little bit about your

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<v Speaker 2>experience with video games.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh man, Yeah, I think I'm a little bit more

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<v Speaker 5>in European Andrew, where you said that you feel like

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<v Speaker 5>you played a lot of video games and maybe even

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<v Speaker 5>a little bit too much at times and wish you

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<v Speaker 5>would have read more. That's like in the exact summary

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<v Speaker 5>of like the first like twenty something odd years of

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<v Speaker 5>my life. So yeah, for me, I actually like pretty

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<v Speaker 5>much have played since basically as long as I can

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<v Speaker 5>remember before because my dad was like in his twenties

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<v Speaker 5>when like the og like Nintendo and all that came

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<v Speaker 5>out in the eighties, and so when I was born

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<v Speaker 5>in the mid nineties, like he already had like Sega

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<v Speaker 5>Genesis and was a Super Nintendo eventually Nintendo sixty four

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<v Speaker 5>PS one Dreamcast. So I really like cut my teeth

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<v Speaker 5>on all of that stuff like that nineties gaming, even

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<v Speaker 5>though I was extremely little in the second half of

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<v Speaker 5>the nineties when I was a toddler, but really from

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<v Speaker 5>there kind of like got more. I definitely like stuck

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<v Speaker 5>with like the Nintendo a lot and wasn't really allowed

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<v Speaker 5>to play like a lot of like the emerated games

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<v Speaker 5>at the time. So I would probably good good decisions

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<v Speaker 5>on my parents probably for that one. So played like

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<v Speaker 5>a lot, played like a lot of game game played

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<v Speaker 5>like a lot of them. Sixty four eventually I got

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<v Speaker 5>like more into like the Microsoft like Xbox three sixty

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<v Speaker 5>stuff when I was in middle school in high school,

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<v Speaker 5>eventually kind of like got into uh I was super

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<v Speaker 5>into Halo at one point, Like those games were great,

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<v Speaker 5>and I thought that they had exceptional writing as well.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, I really, I mean I've played a lot

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<v Speaker 5>of different stuff, probably all the way up until my

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<v Speaker 5>early twenties and then just it's not like I never

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<v Speaker 5>like lost interest or like saw there as like I

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<v Speaker 5>never really really with a phase where even where I

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<v Speaker 5>thought like video games were like stupid or pointless or

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<v Speaker 5>a waste of time, I would say, and I would

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<v Speaker 5>certainly still argue against all of those claims to this day.

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<v Speaker 5>I think I just like I started to find interest

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<v Speaker 5>in other things more probably that and spend time on

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<v Speaker 5>growing up like you know, music and eventually like reading

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<v Speaker 5>as well, So probably like distanced myself a little bit

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<v Speaker 5>more so when I my knowledge of gaming rely spans

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<v Speaker 5>from stuff from like the late nineties, probably too roughly

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<v Speaker 5>like the mid twenty teens. So I'm pretty I'm I'm

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<v Speaker 5>a good like decade out of the loop, I would say,

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<v Speaker 5>with a lot of things. The only one of the

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<v Speaker 5>only early RPG games I played in the past ten

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<v Speaker 5>years is Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven, which I definitely have

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<v Speaker 5>things to say if it comes up. But yeah, pretty

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<v Speaker 5>much like a long story short that's like kind of

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<v Speaker 5>like the broad kind of like the broad sweeping overview

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<v Speaker 5>of really my experiences.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, like you said, we have some similar

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<v Speaker 2>stories there. I feel like the newest game that I

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<v Speaker 2>still play on a somewhat regular basis is probably like

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<v Speaker 2>Fallout four something like it goes goes back a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit at this point. You know, one thing that I've

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<v Speaker 2>been thinking about because you know, I've over the last

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<v Speaker 2>few years, I've really been going through a renaissance as

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<v Speaker 2>I've really discovered literature for the first time. It took

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<v Speaker 2>me to almost finishing my PhD before I recognized the

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<v Speaker 2>value of reading fiction. And at that point it just

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<v Speaker 2>I just started reading everything I keep my hands on,

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<v Speaker 2>and it really reshaped the way that I view just

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<v Speaker 2>about everything really, especially you know, it really started with

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<v Speaker 2>with Tolkien and the you know, getting into his unfairy

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<v Speaker 2>stories and sort of his philosophy of myths and that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of thing, and you know that that's allowed me

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<v Speaker 2>to look back on some of the games that really

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<v Speaker 2>stood out to me, especially in my youth, and recognized

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<v Speaker 2>that maybe they're not just a waste of time. I

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<v Speaker 2>definitely went through that phase where I felt like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>its just escape, But as Tolkien says, escape is part

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<v Speaker 2>of the process of recovery, and so I do believe

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<v Speaker 2>there's some value there. But at the same time I'm

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<v Speaker 2>working through this in real time. I I wonder how

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<v Speaker 2>much the games are just fun or there's an amusement factor,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I want to justify value into it, into

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<v Speaker 2>the story. I don't know, is that a do you

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<v Speaker 2>think that's a temptation when we talk about like, you know, Sam,

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<v Speaker 2>you're talking about how we can discover virtue and video

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<v Speaker 2>games and you know different positive lessons, like do you

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<v Speaker 2>have any comment on that, like how much is that real?

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<v Speaker 2>And how much are we trying to justify something?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I would say that if you are finding value

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<v Speaker 4>in something, then the value exists, right, And I've done

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<v Speaker 4>this with an any number of things. I can you

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00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:42.480
<v Speaker 4>know you can read value into most anything, right, I

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<v Speaker 4>would say, it's how does it actually change you?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 4>If you know if I am playing you know, Dark

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<v Speaker 4>Souls and I'm like, oh, this is this is teaching

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<v Speaker 4>me persistence. But you know then I don't actually persist

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<v Speaker 4>in my my life when it matters. It's not really

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<v Speaker 4>teaching me persistence. It's not really changing, it's not really

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00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.720
<v Speaker 4>enriching that virtue in me. It's just me. That is

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00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:09.240
<v Speaker 4>just me justifying it absolutely. But I have seen multiple

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<v Speaker 4>testimonies on that game, specifically about people saying like this

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<v Speaker 4>saved my life. Right where people if you go on

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<v Speaker 4>if you go on YouTube and search you know, dark Souls,

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<v Speaker 4>search Dark Souls saved my life, you will find I'm

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<v Speaker 4>sure no shortage of of videos of people saying that

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<v Speaker 4>they were in a dark place. They felt hopeless and helpless,

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<v Speaker 4>right they they had felt like they had no no,

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<v Speaker 4>no power, right they couldn't do anything. And then they

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<v Speaker 4>picked up Dark Souls and the game if you haven't

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<v Speaker 4>played it, and it beats you over the head, quite literally.

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<v Speaker 4>It beats you down repeatedly, over and over and over again.

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<v Speaker 4>The game is designed unless you, you know, really go

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<v Speaker 4>out of your way to make it easy for yourself,

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<v Speaker 4>which you can do, but it is designed to kill

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<v Speaker 4>you repeatedly. The one of the versions that came out

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<v Speaker 4>on PC anyway, I'm not sure if this original version

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<v Speaker 4>is called Dark Souls Prepared to Die and the game

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<v Speaker 4>tells you right away like you're going to die, and

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<v Speaker 4>you're going to die a lot, and all you can

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<v Speaker 4>do is get better. I mean that's it. You can yeah,

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00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.480
<v Speaker 4>sure you can do various things to do that, right,

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<v Speaker 4>but the main thing is simply getting better at the game,

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<v Speaker 4>learning the boss's attack patterns, learning when to attack, when

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<v Speaker 4>not to attack, learning when it's time to change your

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00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:26.400
<v Speaker 4>your own weapon or your build your strategy. And it

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00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:31.519
<v Speaker 4>teaches people to have an internal attribution where they say, Okay,

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<v Speaker 4>this failure is clearly just my fault, right, and the

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00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:37.240
<v Speaker 4>only thing I can do about it is change because

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<v Speaker 4>the game's not going to change.

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<v Speaker 5>Right.

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<v Speaker 4>When we think about this in the in the wider world,

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<v Speaker 4>I think people people want society to change. They want

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<v Speaker 4>other people to change for them, right. This is a

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<v Speaker 4>huge problem in culture today where everyone has an external attribution, Right,

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<v Speaker 4>the things that have happened to me aren't my fault.

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<v Speaker 4>You might be right about that, but what are you

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<v Speaker 4>going to do about it?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 4>So we need to have more of like an internal aggy.

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<v Speaker 4>That's what Dark Souls teaches through repeatedly crushing your skull

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<v Speaker 4>in It teaches you to look inward and say, okay,

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<v Speaker 4>where am I failing? What do I need to do

356
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<v Speaker 4>to get out of this? To get past this boss.

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<v Speaker 4>It's again, it's a very small thing. Where it is

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<v Speaker 4>that you could just it can be contained within the

359
00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:21.960
<v Speaker 4>world of the game. Right, if you learn that lesson

360
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<v Speaker 4>in Dark Souls and you don't apply it to your life,

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, yeah, that's that's what most people might very

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<v Speaker 4>well do. But for these people right who actually let

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<v Speaker 4>it change them, I mean, then it changed them, it

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<v Speaker 4>did something meaningful. So yeah, again it is it is

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<v Speaker 4>with most mediums. Video games are simply about how you

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<v Speaker 4>approach them right. Intentionality is huge. I can watch the

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<v Speaker 4>most prof I could read the most profoundly philosophical book

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<v Speaker 4>on the planet. But if I do it just because

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<v Speaker 4>I want to say that I've read the most profoundly

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<v Speaker 4>philosophical book on the planet, who cares? What good is that?

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<v Speaker 4>What it has that changed me?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>So I think that's you know, that's the big piece

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<v Speaker 4>when it comes to games. And I know you've pointed

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<v Speaker 4>this out. Andrew, in a situit of yours said thank you.

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<v Speaker 4>How we approach them, our intentionality, that's what matters. So

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<v Speaker 4>if you find good in something, sorry I've ranally anchelong,

378
00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:17.720
<v Speaker 4>I'll stop myself here. If you find good in something,

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<v Speaker 4>you actually let that good affect you, then it's real.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's very well said. I mean, it is

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<v Speaker 2>just like anything that if you are pursuing it for

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<v Speaker 2>the sake of discovering wisdom, then you're likely to find it.

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<v Speaker 2>Whereas if you are pursuing it just for the sake

385
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<v Speaker 2>of justifying the wrong kind of escape that obviously at

386
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.400
<v Speaker 2>that point it's a vice. But then it's not necessarily

387
00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:44.680
<v Speaker 2>the fault of the medium. It's the fault of the player,

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<v Speaker 2>the one participating in it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:50.839
<v Speaker 2>I think that's that's very very well said.

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<v Speaker 3>Josh.

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<v Speaker 2>You do you have any thoughts on that, on you know,

393
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.960
<v Speaker 2>discovering wisdom, on you know, how video games can potentially

394
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<v Speaker 2>serve you know, a posit, the role, what kind of

395
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<v Speaker 2>wherever you want.

396
00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:01.440
<v Speaker 3>To go with that.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and absolutely, I mean I certainly agree with everything

398
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:10.440
<v Speaker 5>you just said, and I appreciate the uh the nods

399
00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:15.079
<v Speaker 5>and mentions to dark Souls because that was certainly, you know,

400
00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:17.440
<v Speaker 5>one of the series that's certainly like one of the

401
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:19.519
<v Speaker 5>only series that really played a lot in like my

402
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:22.839
<v Speaker 5>adult life, and that's like one of my I always

403
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:27.279
<v Speaker 5>go back to this kind of game, certainly not always

404
00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:32.160
<v Speaker 5>for relaxation, because it's hard to relax and play Dark

405
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:35.599
<v Speaker 5>Souls even if your experience sometimes it's still challenging and

406
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:40.519
<v Speaker 5>frustrating even when you when you fail. But another thing

407
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:43.599
<v Speaker 5>I want to like say with Dark Souls specifically is

408
00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.480
<v Speaker 5>there was what actually drew me into that game. It was, Yes,

409
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:51.839
<v Speaker 5>it was the challenge, it was the difficulty. But the

410
00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:54.839
<v Speaker 5>best word I could use kind of describe the world

411
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:59.599
<v Speaker 5>and the lore and the aesthetics of Dark Souls is enchanting,

412
00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:02.559
<v Speaker 5>to be honest. And it's the same thing that I

413
00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:07.240
<v Speaker 5>think any one of us could find enchanting about the

414
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.640
<v Speaker 5>best of like the fantasy genre. Right, whether you're talking

415
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.200
<v Speaker 5>about the great works of the Middle Ages or you're

416
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:18.279
<v Speaker 5>talking about Tolkien or maybe even some of the the

417
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:22.519
<v Speaker 5>contemporary later modern works that uh that came after Tolkien, Right,

418
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:27.079
<v Speaker 5>there's something enchanting about these worlds that are that we

419
00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:30.960
<v Speaker 5>don't see around us necessarily, but there is there is

420
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:33.759
<v Speaker 5>there is an enchanging reality within the world, and it

421
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:39.160
<v Speaker 5>awakens and illuminates our imaginations in this this special way

422
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:42.799
<v Speaker 5>that we can't maybe you can't even always fully explain

423
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.119
<v Speaker 5>in a sense, and that was that was really stood

424
00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:48.920
<v Speaker 5>out for me. And one thing I'd describe myself as

425
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:53.359
<v Speaker 5>is so like I always I've thought about this a lot,

426
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:56.640
<v Speaker 5>and sometimes I knew a lot of guys that were

427
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.640
<v Speaker 5>like into like army men growing up, right, Like they

428
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:01.720
<v Speaker 5>like were like we're obsessed with like World War two

429
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.519
<v Speaker 5>and stuff like that, and there's like nothing wrong with that.

430
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.720
<v Speaker 5>I think that's great, and there's a lot of wonder

431
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.640
<v Speaker 5>to that as well. But I always describe myself as

432
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.400
<v Speaker 5>a kid who was more into like knights and swords

433
00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:17.079
<v Speaker 5>than like army men and like rifles. Not I'm not

434
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:19.000
<v Speaker 5>gonna say one is better than the other, but that

435
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.000
<v Speaker 5>was just like my draw So I think something like

436
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:25.359
<v Speaker 5>Dark Souls was enchanting, but it was almost like enchanting

437
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.599
<v Speaker 5>in an adult way, whereas when I was in a kid,

438
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.319
<v Speaker 5>the world and war and mythos of the Legend of

439
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.759
<v Speaker 5>Zelda was super enchanting to me as a kid. I

440
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.880
<v Speaker 5>still think it's interesting and enchanting as as a thirty

441
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:40.720
<v Speaker 5>year old. By the way, so I'm not gonna say

442
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.720
<v Speaker 5>it's it's child it's CS Lewis right. It's like you

443
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:47.240
<v Speaker 5>you love childish things, then you don't love childish things,

444
00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:49.640
<v Speaker 5>and you grow up and you will love childish things again, right,

445
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:51.359
<v Speaker 5>Like it's like that's like kind of like how I

446
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:54.039
<v Speaker 5>would think of like Legend of Zelda. But Dark Souls

447
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:56.599
<v Speaker 5>is not for kids. It is for adults. But it's

448
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.440
<v Speaker 5>it's enchanting. It's a totally different way. And I mean

449
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.079
<v Speaker 5>you just want to talk about like how like I've

450
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:05.559
<v Speaker 5>never seen outside of like a fantasy book series or

451
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:09.240
<v Speaker 5>like some of the old Icelandic or you know ar

452
00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:11.920
<v Speaker 5>Thury in English tales. It's like outside of some of that,

453
00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:15.319
<v Speaker 5>I haven't really seen anything else with such a rich

454
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:20.599
<v Speaker 5>war and uh just like story behind it, but the

455
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:22.200
<v Speaker 5>story is not on the nose, you know, it's not

456
00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:24.920
<v Speaker 5>explicit like you get to learn it, don't get to

457
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:28.559
<v Speaker 5>kill things and read artifacts and put the pieces together,

458
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:31.559
<v Speaker 5>and honestly, then watch hours and hours and hours of

459
00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:35.359
<v Speaker 5>basically Dark Soul scholars on YouTube to really actually understand

460
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:38.039
<v Speaker 5>what's going on. And there's a lot of meaning there,

461
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.160
<v Speaker 5>like long story short, like it's it's it's profound right,

462
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.319
<v Speaker 5>And I think sometimes people can even play dark like

463
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.960
<v Speaker 5>the Dark Soul series just for the challenge, and that's great,

464
00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:54.279
<v Speaker 5>and maybe they subconsciously reap some of the imaginative and

465
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.599
<v Speaker 5>philosophical aspects of that in a way. But I think,

466
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.279
<v Speaker 5>like even just to play it for the challenge of

467
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:06.359
<v Speaker 5>supreme refined melee combat is still like missing out on

468
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:10.680
<v Speaker 5>all like the richness of meaning written into those games

469
00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:12.839
<v Speaker 5>and designed into those games.

470
00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.160
<v Speaker 2>So you've both talked about Dark Souls a good bit,

471
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:19.839
<v Speaker 2>which I've actually never played Dark Souls. I'm not super

472
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:24.400
<v Speaker 2>familiar other than just seeing, you know, glimpses here and there.

473
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:28.119
<v Speaker 2>So I mean it might provide a good case study here,

474
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:31.200
<v Speaker 2>like what in particular is so enchanting about it?

475
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:33.240
<v Speaker 3>And neither of you can take that up.

476
00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:36.400
<v Speaker 4>So I'm not I haven't really gotten deep into the

477
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:38.720
<v Speaker 4>lore yet of Dark Souls. I'm still on my first

478
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:41.240
<v Speaker 4>play through of the original game. I've played a couple

479
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.359
<v Speaker 4>of other from software same to all other titles, one

480
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.680
<v Speaker 4>being Eldering. There's just the most recent release, well the

481
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:50.839
<v Speaker 4>most recent Souls like release anyway, I almost come back

482
00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:54.160
<v Speaker 4>and came out twenty twenty two. It has a similar

483
00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:56.960
<v Speaker 4>sort of Gene where it's this dark fantasy setting, the

484
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.279
<v Speaker 4>world's kind of trapped in this cyclical cycle where no

485
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.759
<v Speaker 4>one really dies, and it was like the Tarnished and

486
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.279
<v Speaker 4>eld Ring of the Undead, And in Dark Souls, we're

487
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:11.079
<v Speaker 4>kind of just kind of this cyclical cycle to life

488
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:14.720
<v Speaker 4>which you're a little bit seeking to break. So there's

489
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:16.759
<v Speaker 4>you know, so that you could go into. You could

490
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:20.160
<v Speaker 4>probably teach a whole course just on that concept right

491
00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:23.039
<v Speaker 4>where it's just like you've basically created immortality and you're

492
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.319
<v Speaker 4>realizing how awful it truly is. But even without having

493
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:29.720
<v Speaker 4>you know, it's like, as we're having this conversation, like, oh,

494
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:31.799
<v Speaker 4>that's right, I keep meaning to go on YouTube and

495
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:35.480
<v Speaker 4>like Josh said, find the you know, watch a Foddy

496
00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:38.480
<v Speaker 4>video or whoever else is doing the videos on all

497
00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:41.640
<v Speaker 4>the Dark Soul, the Dark Soul's lower Deep dives. But

498
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:43.200
<v Speaker 4>one of the things that really stands out to me

499
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:46.480
<v Speaker 4>that is most enchanting in Dark Souls, you spend a

500
00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:49.160
<v Speaker 4>good amount of time underground or at least in very

501
00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:55.079
<v Speaker 4>dark places, and there are moments where you see sunlight,

502
00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:58.839
<v Speaker 4>Like there's there's a whole long section of the game

503
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:02.119
<v Speaker 4>where you're going through is essentially the sewers, and it's

504
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:04.880
<v Speaker 4>fairly early on and then you you finally end up

505
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:07.799
<v Speaker 4>in the Boss room and there's this big crack in

506
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.279
<v Speaker 4>the ceiling essentially where sunlight shining through. And it makes

507
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:15.599
<v Speaker 4>me think of the scene of the Two Towers and

508
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:19.880
<v Speaker 4>in Aderas where they see the described in the book,

509
00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:22.359
<v Speaker 4>as you know, the single high window through, you know,

510
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:25.519
<v Speaker 4>sunlight shining through. And then that same theme comes back

511
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:28.359
<v Speaker 4>with a single star that Sam seeds as he's on

512
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:31.799
<v Speaker 4>the I think it's the planes of Gorgoroth, And you know,

513
00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.839
<v Speaker 4>it's just kind of this message like not all is dark. Right,

514
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:37.400
<v Speaker 4>You've been going through this incredibly dark, depressing area, and

515
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:39.599
<v Speaker 4>even as you're about to take on this giant you know,

516
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:43.319
<v Speaker 4>dragon like boss, right, you still see this this beam

517
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:45.680
<v Speaker 4>of light coming in that kind of tells you there

518
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:47.440
<v Speaker 4>there is hope here, there is an end.

519
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:47.680
<v Speaker 3>Right.

520
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.519
<v Speaker 4>You're you know, you're about to take on a very

521
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:52.240
<v Speaker 4>difficult fight, but you know you have something to look towards.

522
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:56.119
<v Speaker 4>And that's you know, just I love being able to

523
00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:58.880
<v Speaker 4>kind of imburse myself in that world and even not

524
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.240
<v Speaker 4>knowing much yet, you know, not having read every item description,

525
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:05.319
<v Speaker 4>and you know, I ever looked up every enemy on

526
00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:07.960
<v Speaker 4>the wiki. Just seeing this and seeing what it's I

527
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:11.839
<v Speaker 4>think it's trying to tell me. Yeah, it's super super cool.

528
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:14.359
<v Speaker 3>Cool.

529
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:18.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I definitely appreciate those themes, the immortality as well

530
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:21.240
<v Speaker 2>as the light. It definitely makes you think of Tolkien

531
00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:23.440
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the stuff that he deals with, which

532
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:27.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean naturally anything fantasy I'm gonna read talking into it. Oh,

533
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:30.279
<v Speaker 2>that's gonna makes sense, not not without merit on that.

534
00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:33.839
<v Speaker 3>Okay. Cool. So yeah, my.

535
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Expansive fantasy that that I've lived in for years now,

536
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.079
<v Speaker 2>regarding video games at least, really goes to Elder Scrolls,

537
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.400
<v Speaker 2>which I know, Sam, you just recently started Skyrim for

538
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:49.880
<v Speaker 2>the first time, right, which I don't.

539
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:50.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how to dange that.

540
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.799
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I've heard of Skyri. I think I heard

541
00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:55.279
<v Speaker 4>about Skyrim the year it came out, because I would

542
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:58.680
<v Speaker 4>have been right along when I started college, and thank goodness,

543
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.480
<v Speaker 4>I didn't play it playing it then because I don't

544
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:04.799
<v Speaker 4>think I would have graduated, and i've I've not, I've

545
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:07.720
<v Speaker 4>barely dipped my toes in because I I was staying

546
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:11.200
<v Speaker 4>up with with our newborn, and I find I bought

547
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:12.880
<v Speaker 4>it recently when it was finally bought it when it's

548
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.839
<v Speaker 4>like four dollars on Steam, and I was like, okay,

549
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.960
<v Speaker 4>I hooked my my laptop that I have for gaming

550
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:20.920
<v Speaker 4>on up to our TV. I'm sitting there with my

551
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.400
<v Speaker 4>my sleeping newborn on a lap at two in the

552
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.400
<v Speaker 4>morning or whatever, and like, all right, I'll start playing Skyrim.

553
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:29.400
<v Speaker 4>And so I mean, I, like I said, I barely

554
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:31.000
<v Speaker 4>dipped my toes in. There's not even much I can

555
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:34.559
<v Speaker 4>formulate about, you know, my thoughts about the world yet, unfortunately,

556
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:37.599
<v Speaker 4>because it's like okay, you know, I'm just starting to

557
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.960
<v Speaker 4>you understand kind of the the world building that that's

558
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.920
<v Speaker 4>going on here. So I wish, I wish I could

559
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.119
<v Speaker 4>tell talk more about it, but unfortunately, just not much.

560
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.599
<v Speaker 3>Yes, fair enough. I had to ask.

561
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.559
<v Speaker 2>It's it's unusual you find somebody today who's playing Skyrim

562
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.680
<v Speaker 2>for the first time. Uh, it's such a you know,

563
00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:58.799
<v Speaker 2>it's such a major title.

564
00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:00.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

565
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:02.680
<v Speaker 2>And I started with the Elder Scrolls all the way

566
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:07.400
<v Speaker 2>back with morrowind which was I mean a little bit

567
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:08.839
<v Speaker 2>of answer from you, you know, when it first came

568
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:10.799
<v Speaker 2>out that given you know, my age at the time,

569
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:12.680
<v Speaker 2>but I had older brothers since I was always playing

570
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:15.559
<v Speaker 2>a little bit ahead of most people my age of

571
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:21.079
<v Speaker 2>the time, but I mean speaking of just vast enchanting worlds,

572
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:24.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it still boggles my mind that, you know,

573
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:27.240
<v Speaker 2>within each of these major Elder Scrolls titles, I mean,

574
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:31.599
<v Speaker 2>they have literally entire books, like libraries of books written

575
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:35.240
<v Speaker 2>within the games. And so the fact that you know

576
00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:38.839
<v Speaker 2>they are willing to, you know, invest the time in

577
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:41.799
<v Speaker 2>writers to literally write books in the game, most of

578
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:43.759
<v Speaker 2>which are going to go unread by you know, those

579
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:46.480
<v Speaker 2>are those who are buying the titles. It just I

580
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:49.279
<v Speaker 2>think shows a level of detail which you know, unfortunately,

581
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:51.519
<v Speaker 2>moving forward, I imagine all such things will just be

582
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:55.599
<v Speaker 2>AI generated. But at least once upon a time, you know,

583
00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:58.440
<v Speaker 2>that really took the time to you know, invest in

584
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:02.960
<v Speaker 2>such little storytelling d details that you know, it's easy

585
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.839
<v Speaker 2>for me to look at a title like that as

586
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:08.240
<v Speaker 2>well as whatever comparable fantasy series are out there, Dark Souls, whatever,

587
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:11.559
<v Speaker 2>and it's easy for me to look at that and

588
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:16.720
<v Speaker 2>recognize the potential for enchantment, the potential for kind of

589
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:21.839
<v Speaker 2>expanding your engagement with kind of with ideas, with philosophy,

590
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:26.400
<v Speaker 2>with with kind of what could be. I do think

591
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:32.240
<v Speaker 2>that there's a lot of inherent value in that well,

592
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.319
<v Speaker 2>I guess, I mean from here it it'd be interesting

593
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:39.759
<v Speaker 2>to hear about, you know, some other titles that have

594
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:44.319
<v Speaker 2>sort of captured your imagination, that have captured your time,

595
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:47.799
<v Speaker 2>and uh, just to dig into a little bit about

596
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:50.519
<v Speaker 2>what it is about these particular titles that stand out

597
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:54.160
<v Speaker 2>to you. So I mean, Josh, what's something else that

598
00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:56.880
<v Speaker 2>has been uh, you know, near and dear to you.

599
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:01.240
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I'll run with this one first, just because I

600
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:04.079
<v Speaker 5>mentioned it earlier, and I think it really is like

601
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:06.799
<v Speaker 5>the only besides Okay, if it's a lie, I did

602
00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:08.960
<v Speaker 5>play elden Ring. I was gonna say this is the

603
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:11.799
<v Speaker 5>only game I've played that's come out since twenty twenty,

604
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:16.200
<v Speaker 5>but not elden Ring, but Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven. I

605
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:20.720
<v Speaker 5>wanted to talk about that, and I don't know if

606
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:25.759
<v Speaker 5>i'd I definitely wouldn't exactly use the word enchanting to

607
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.480
<v Speaker 5>describe it. But I also think that's kind of the point.

608
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:34.960
<v Speaker 5>And what I like about cyberhok twenty seventy seven. I mean,

609
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:37.720
<v Speaker 5>first of all, like the writing is an incredible, great

610
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.240
<v Speaker 5>character arcs, great dialogue back and forth between like your

611
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:46.880
<v Speaker 5>the protagonists in which you play, and the various recurring

612
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:51.079
<v Speaker 5>like side quest characters that he encounters in Knight City,

613
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:53.400
<v Speaker 5>in the outskirts of Night City, which is the setting

614
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:58.240
<v Speaker 5>of the game. But I think what's really, uh, what's

615
00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:02.039
<v Speaker 5>really profound about that game is that it almost, to me,

616
00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:07.839
<v Speaker 5>it almost captures, it almost captures like a fairly realistic

617
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.440
<v Speaker 5>version of like what the future could be in a sense,

618
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:17.319
<v Speaker 5>because grow I liked I liked Star Trek growing up,

619
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:19.039
<v Speaker 5>and I guess like to some extent, I still do

620
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.039
<v Speaker 5>like the next generation and even like Deep Space nine

621
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:24.519
<v Speaker 5>to some extent. But one thing I kind of like

622
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:26.920
<v Speaker 5>abandoned when I got older is I found out like

623
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.839
<v Speaker 5>Gene rodden Berry's kind of like conception of the future

624
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:33.960
<v Speaker 5>just super like utopian, and it's like everything's going to

625
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.839
<v Speaker 5>be super diplomatic with all these aliens, and like everything

626
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:41.240
<v Speaker 5>looks crisp all the time, like their uniforms are always

627
00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:45.680
<v Speaker 5>perfectly uh, you know, perfectly like steamed and pressed and

628
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:48.000
<v Speaker 5>all that. But the ship is like the ship is

629
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:52.079
<v Speaker 5>beautiful and there's nothing. It's a very like glorified depiction

630
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.480
<v Speaker 5>of like the progression of science beyond the time that

631
00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:58.599
<v Speaker 5>will probably all, you know, beyond the time that we'll

632
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:01.119
<v Speaker 5>probably all live up to right like like hundreds of

633
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:06.000
<v Speaker 5>years in the future, whereas with cyberpunk, the future looks

634
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:08.720
<v Speaker 5>it looks kind of it looks kind of gross, right Like,

635
00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:10.119
<v Speaker 5>I don't know if it either of you ever been

636
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:13.920
<v Speaker 5>to like Times Square in New York City And I

637
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:15.960
<v Speaker 5>always heard about it and thought it would sounded cool

638
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:17.680
<v Speaker 5>as a kid, and I went for the first time

639
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:19.680
<v Speaker 5>a couple of years ago, and I thought it was

640
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:21.599
<v Speaker 5>kind of gross. It's like there's just a bunch of

641
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:24.720
<v Speaker 5>weird characters walking around in the middle of the day

642
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:30.759
<v Speaker 5>and there's just big giant screens with not beautiful images

643
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:32.839
<v Speaker 5>on them in any sense, And that's that's kind of

644
00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:36.079
<v Speaker 5>like what side like the vibe of cyberpunk twenty seventy

645
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:40.599
<v Speaker 5>seven is. And people are people are kind of gross

646
00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:43.400
<v Speaker 5>in it in a sense too. But I think what

647
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:46.920
<v Speaker 5>it really captures more than anything is kind of like

648
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:52.799
<v Speaker 5>the ramifications of one like taking like technology and science

649
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:57.000
<v Speaker 5>too far as humans. Probably the over alliance on science

650
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:02.039
<v Speaker 5>and technology and the way in which are kind of

651
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:05.400
<v Speaker 5>like just our human condition is kind of put on

652
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:10.360
<v Speaker 5>display even more so because of technology and how the

653
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:13.079
<v Speaker 5>things that I've always been there for all of human history,

654
00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:18.239
<v Speaker 5>like since the Fall especially, have been have been prevalent

655
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:21.400
<v Speaker 5>and real, but there's a way in which technology and

656
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:26.719
<v Speaker 5>the evolution of science and like the data network and

657
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:31.440
<v Speaker 5>the rapidness of communication puts that on like full display,

658
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.480
<v Speaker 5>and the way that that's even modified as people are basically,

659
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, at this point, like half robot and like

660
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:40.800
<v Speaker 5>you know, part human, part robot, having implants and all

661
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:45.639
<v Speaker 5>these things asking the questions even like basically anthropological questions

662
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:48.280
<v Speaker 5>regarding like what actually is a human? And are you

663
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.239
<v Speaker 5>still human or fully human if you have these implants.

664
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:55.000
<v Speaker 5>It really deals with all of those things really wonderfully.

665
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:56.719
<v Speaker 5>And I'm I'm trying to hit it all here, so

666
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.199
<v Speaker 5>I'm kind of randing and speed talking through it a

667
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:01.519
<v Speaker 5>little bit just to hit the high points. But I

668
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:05.239
<v Speaker 5>can't recommend that game enough because it's not necessarily beautiful,

669
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.360
<v Speaker 5>but it's meaningful and it really I think, asks a

670
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:10.840
<v Speaker 5>lot of thought provoking questions and explores them quite nicely.

671
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:14.679
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that one's been on my Steam wish list for sure.

672
00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:16.760
<v Speaker 4>I'm like waiting for it to go and sale or something,

673
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:21.199
<v Speaker 4>just waiting to find the time. But yeah, whenever I

674
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:24.559
<v Speaker 4>you know, I see people or I see like ads

675
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:28.280
<v Speaker 4>or people YouTube videos, whatever, people at the whatever apples

676
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.840
<v Speaker 4>apples headset, you know, ar VR headset that's like just

677
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:34.320
<v Speaker 4>wear this while you're cooking dinner and it's stuff or whatever.

678
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:38.320
<v Speaker 4>Interact with your family with a yes, I see cyberpocket.

679
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:40.559
<v Speaker 4>I think of that, and yeah, okay, that's definitely a

680
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:44.800
<v Speaker 4>future where we feel like we're creeping closer towards Also.

681
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.760
<v Speaker 5>If you like, if you have any like affinity for

682
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:49.880
<v Speaker 5>Kean or Reuse whatsoever. His likeness is like one of

683
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:53.440
<v Speaker 5>the main characters in the game and he's a huge jerk,

684
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:54.599
<v Speaker 5>so it's really funny.

685
00:35:56.079 --> 00:36:01.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I really appreciate what sci fi can do in

686
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:06.599
<v Speaker 2>presenting just the warnings against science right progress and technology.

687
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.679
<v Speaker 2>You know, I mean, I've I've always felt that anybody

688
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:14.960
<v Speaker 2>with any kind of sense of things recognizes where technology

689
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:18.199
<v Speaker 2>can go amiss. But I mean, after reading you know,

690
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:21.559
<v Speaker 2>Lewis's Ransom series, that that really put me on you know,

691
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:25.760
<v Speaker 2>the scientists or the demon possessed villains behind closed doors here.

692
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:32.039
<v Speaker 2>One of my favorite things about those books is the

693
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:34.760
<v Speaker 2>the ending, especially that the epilogues of like Out of

694
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:38.719
<v Speaker 2>the Silent Planet, for example, where you know, at the end,

695
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:42.519
<v Speaker 2>Lewis basically comes out and says, oh, by the way,

696
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.360
<v Speaker 2>this stuff is real. Now, now go cast down the

697
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.639
<v Speaker 2>demonic scientists. And you know that I saw that article

698
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:50.480
<v Speaker 2>coming out a few years ago about how Lord of

699
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:54.000
<v Speaker 2>the Rings is radicalizing. But nothing is as straightforward as

700
00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Lewis's epilogues in those books against science.

701
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.280
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I mean, my my go.

702
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:05.960
<v Speaker 2>To dystopian look at the future is definitely Fallout and

703
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:09.119
<v Speaker 2>I know, the super mainstream, but you know, I've been

704
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:13.400
<v Speaker 2>on board since Fallout three. New Vegas especially played a

705
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.480
<v Speaker 2>lot of Fallout four. All the New Vegas is definitely

706
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:20.039
<v Speaker 2>the best game objectively, but and even the show I

707
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:24.159
<v Speaker 2>think was done really well in tune with the spirit

708
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:27.800
<v Speaker 2>of the games, where you know it is, we're obviously

709
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:30.559
<v Speaker 2>in this disaster scenario. You know, civilization has been destroyed.

710
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.559
<v Speaker 2>We're dealing with the remnants that are left, and everything

711
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:38.639
<v Speaker 2>is just gross and mean and dirty, but you know,

712
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:42.400
<v Speaker 2>there's still these glimmers of goodness, glimmers of hope, this

713
00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:47.760
<v Speaker 2>reminder that life does go on, life can go on

714
00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:52.119
<v Speaker 2>even when everything externally is stripped away. And I actually

715
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:55.199
<v Speaker 2>think thats as much as you can expect Amazon to

716
00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:58.280
<v Speaker 2>do I felt like they decently maintained this with the

717
00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:01.239
<v Speaker 2>show in that you know, like Lucy, the main character

718
00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:04.760
<v Speaker 2>part of her story is you know, she's like the

719
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:06.719
<v Speaker 2>bright character in the Wasteland. You know, she always has

720
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:10.320
<v Speaker 2>this positive attitude. She even you know, maintains fidelity to

721
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the Golden Rule. You know, that's a kind of an

722
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:16.239
<v Speaker 2>ongoing theme here, even you know too well people who

723
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:20.360
<v Speaker 2>aren't very nice to her. It's a Again, is it

724
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:24.559
<v Speaker 2>like a Christian franchise. No, certainly not. However, I do

725
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:27.679
<v Speaker 2>think that there is just some of that resilience of life,

726
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:30.519
<v Speaker 2>resilience of goodness that can be found through I mean this,

727
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:35.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, post apocalyptic, retro future look at things. And

728
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:38.159
<v Speaker 2>so that's that's that's my go to, you know, dystopian

729
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:42.639
<v Speaker 2>franchise of choice, Sam tell us about. You can either

730
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:44.199
<v Speaker 2>comment on any of that or just go off on

731
00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:44.840
<v Speaker 2>something else.

732
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:48.480
<v Speaker 4>Army, I need to both play Fallout. I have New

733
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:50.480
<v Speaker 4>Vegas in my library, but I need to. And then

734
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:53.559
<v Speaker 4>I actually want to want to watch the show because

735
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:55.599
<v Speaker 4>I wanted to. I probably wouldn't wanted to include in

736
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:57.400
<v Speaker 4>a video that I'm gonna make in the future. But

737
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:00.440
<v Speaker 4>so again, that's another series that I'd like to explore.

738
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.320
<v Speaker 4>And yeah, when you talk about you know, franchisees that

739
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:04.760
<v Speaker 4>most any franchise is not going to be a Christian

740
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.239
<v Speaker 4>franchise or a Christian story. You know, even Lord of

741
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:09.880
<v Speaker 4>the Rings is not. It is it is very much Christian,

742
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:12.719
<v Speaker 4>but it is not. It is not a sermon, it

743
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.679
<v Speaker 4>is not a homily, right, And that's I've said this

744
00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:18.440
<v Speaker 4>many times. I will say it many more times. Christian

745
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.639
<v Speaker 4>movies generally suck because they don't care enough about the

746
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:25.840
<v Speaker 4>movie part, right, They're trying to communicate their message to

747
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:28.199
<v Speaker 4>a to a broader audience by making a movie. This

748
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:30.800
<v Speaker 4>is what Hollywood has been doing, just from the opposite

749
00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:33.280
<v Speaker 4>end of the faith spectrum, where they don't really have

750
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:35.760
<v Speaker 4>much faith. They don't really have much morals for the

751
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.239
<v Speaker 4>most part. They just kind of have a vague sense.

752
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:40.960
<v Speaker 4>I mean it's like Marxist morals basically, where it's like, yeah,

753
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:43.199
<v Speaker 4>these people are pressed, we're gonna need to make sure

754
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.079
<v Speaker 4>we support them until they become the present. And it's like, anyhow,

755
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:49.840
<v Speaker 4>this is what Hollywood's done. They've they've forgotten a lot

756
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:53.960
<v Speaker 4>about you know, especially big mainstream Disney forgotten about the

757
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:58.239
<v Speaker 4>movie part. The art right, the telling a story in

758
00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:00.400
<v Speaker 4>a way that no one else can, and they just

759
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:05.239
<v Speaker 4>want to tell people things just doesn't work anyhow. That's

760
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:06.960
<v Speaker 4>that's my little self buck. So when you talk about

761
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, movie or movies, franchises, games, whatever, being Christian,

762
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:13.239
<v Speaker 4>most of them are not going to be. But there

763
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:18.199
<v Speaker 4>Peter Criefton Is in Philosophy of Tolkien repeats this phrase

764
00:40:18.199 --> 00:40:21.199
<v Speaker 4>from one of Tolkien's letters at least twice. I'm halfway

765
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:22.880
<v Speaker 4>through the book and he's repeated it at least twice,

766
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:25.920
<v Speaker 4>where Tolkien says, you know that you know more important,

767
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:27.880
<v Speaker 4>or at least the objective of you know, something like

768
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:30.480
<v Speaker 4>Lord of the Rings is the elucidation of truth, right,

769
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:33.679
<v Speaker 4>the encouragement of good morals by showing them in these

770
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:37.639
<v Speaker 4>you know, real but fantastic ways, right with these characters.

771
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:41.280
<v Speaker 4>So that's, you know, whenever I'm approaching and analyzing some media,

772
00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:43.679
<v Speaker 4>which is what I do on the channel, right, I

773
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:48.760
<v Speaker 4>analyze it from a Christian perspective, but from the more

774
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:50.960
<v Speaker 4>from the lens of virtue and you know, growing to

775
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:54.519
<v Speaker 4>you know, growing in virtue, growing in love of others. Anyhow,

776
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:57.199
<v Speaker 4>So I ended talking about actual games that I actually

777
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.559
<v Speaker 4>care about, were about to say something, Andrew, Yeah.

778
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:01.159
<v Speaker 3>I just can say that.

779
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:03.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the Christian way of viewing anything is to

780
00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:06.639
<v Speaker 2>find truth wherever it is and to recognize it as such.

781
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, it goes only back to Justin Martyr, right,

782
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I have an old truth is God's truth wherever it

783
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:14.719
<v Speaker 2>can be found, and so I definitely agree with you

784
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:16.199
<v Speaker 2>on that. I mean, the way that Tolkien goes about

785
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:18.639
<v Speaker 2>writing his story is he told the story he had

786
00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:21.159
<v Speaker 2>to tell, then he looked back and said, oh, I

787
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.679
<v Speaker 2>wrote a Christian story. That's what he basically says to

788
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:25.440
<v Speaker 2>one of his letters.

789
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:27.079
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, I'm just echoing what you've said.

790
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:28.360
<v Speaker 1>You can continue.

791
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.440
<v Speaker 4>So tying into that, it would be the games that

792
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:34.400
<v Speaker 4>have Two of the games that have captured my attention

793
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:36.559
<v Speaker 4>in the last few years are the God of War games,

794
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:40.239
<v Speaker 4>so specifically the more recent too so one came out

795
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:43.159
<v Speaker 4>twenty eighteen, which just called God of War even though

796
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.159
<v Speaker 4>it is really God of War four, and then God

797
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:48.039
<v Speaker 4>of War Ragnak, which came out twenty twenty two. I believe,

798
00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:53.480
<v Speaker 4>so their continuation of the original God of War PlayStation games,

799
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:55.639
<v Speaker 4>you know, one, two, and three and a couple in between,

800
00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:58.920
<v Speaker 4>which followed the tale if you're not familiar of Krados,

801
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:02.559
<v Speaker 4>who is a character. He's a son of He's a

802
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:04.840
<v Speaker 4>son of Zeus, because who in Greek tales isn't a

803
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:10.000
<v Speaker 4>son of Zeus? Who basically who's a wife and who

804
00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:12.719
<v Speaker 4>is tricked into killing his own wife and child in

805
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:16.960
<v Speaker 4>his battle lost by Aries, and in revenge she ends

806
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:19.199
<v Speaker 4>up tearing down all of Olympus and throwing all of

807
00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:23.400
<v Speaker 4>Grease into chaos. And then he attempts to what's the

808
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:25.679
<v Speaker 4>word that you have to use to be algorithmically collect,

809
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:28.920
<v Speaker 4>he attempts to unlive himself, and that's where God of

810
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:32.280
<v Speaker 4>War three ends. Follow up, you catch up with him

811
00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:36.960
<v Speaker 4>a decade plus later in God of War four in

812
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:39.360
<v Speaker 4>the in the reboot, and he's now it's now he's

813
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:42.800
<v Speaker 4>now in Norse mythology, so he is has found a

814
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:47.679
<v Speaker 4>new life. He is, you know, married a Nordic woman,

815
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:50.599
<v Speaker 4>a giant as we found out find out, and had

816
00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:53.480
<v Speaker 4>a son who's I think about nine, nine, ten eleven

817
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:56.519
<v Speaker 4>years old in the first game, and the first game

818
00:42:56.599 --> 00:43:00.599
<v Speaker 4>begins with his wife's funeral and him have to figure

819
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:04.599
<v Speaker 4>out how to raise this kid to be a father,

820
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:07.000
<v Speaker 4>to be a good father when he never really had

821
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:12.119
<v Speaker 4>that example, and his struggles with his past, right, his

822
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:16.480
<v Speaker 4>struggle with forgiving himself right, finding you know, redemption just

823
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:20.639
<v Speaker 4>for himself, right, That is a huge, huge theme, right, obviously,

824
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:23.320
<v Speaker 4>someone who's who's done horrible, horrible deeds in the past

825
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:26.880
<v Speaker 4>finding for self, forgiveness and redemption. That remains a theme

826
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:31.719
<v Speaker 4>throughout both of the reboot games. And so those stories

827
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:34.920
<v Speaker 4>absolutely captured my attention because especially as a father myself,

828
00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:38.159
<v Speaker 4>even though my kids are a bit younger, just struggling

829
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:41.079
<v Speaker 4>with you know, whatever struggles I may have, and how

830
00:43:41.559 --> 00:43:43.679
<v Speaker 4>I really do not want to pass on my own

831
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:48.400
<v Speaker 4>faults and flaws to my kids, you know, seeing him,

832
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:52.079
<v Speaker 4>you know, grow in humility, right and meaning that in

833
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:55.079
<v Speaker 4>the very truest way where he learns to know himself

834
00:43:55.119 --> 00:44:00.119
<v Speaker 4>in his place. Right. But yeah, forgiveness and redemption by

835
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:03.639
<v Speaker 4>far the largest largest themes in those stories. And that's

836
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:08.039
<v Speaker 4>again it's a very Christian message, even if the developers

837
00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:11.440
<v Speaker 4>are probably partly not Christian. Certainly the studio as a

838
00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:15.079
<v Speaker 4>whole is not explicitly Christian, but that's kind of Christianity's

839
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:19.159
<v Speaker 4>whole thing. So and it's but it is beautiful and

840
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:20.880
<v Speaker 4>it's one of the one of the things that even

841
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:25.639
<v Speaker 4>people who aren't Christian, they can realize that, right, because

842
00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:28.119
<v Speaker 4>it is just an obvious truth. If you just tell

843
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:33.280
<v Speaker 4>people that, yeah, you can't change what's done, right, you

844
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:37.159
<v Speaker 4>have to move on. At the near the end of

845
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:39.920
<v Speaker 4>one of the last games, not to spoil it too much,

846
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:42.119
<v Speaker 4>but one of the one of the characters says to Credos,

847
00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:46.199
<v Speaker 4>don't you know what I've done? And Creatos responds responds, yes,

848
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:51.480
<v Speaker 4>but what will you do now? And that plays over

849
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:55.519
<v Speaker 4>and over and over in my head because that's it, right,

850
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:59.000
<v Speaker 4>because I certainly have the temptation to look back on

851
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:00.760
<v Speaker 4>what I've done, whether we're five minutes ago or a

852
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:05.360
<v Speaker 4>year ago, and go, what was I thinking? What's wrong

853
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:08.599
<v Speaker 4>with me? And you know the answer is who cares?

854
00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:12.599
<v Speaker 4>What are you going to do now? Oh? That's definitely

855
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:15.199
<v Speaker 4>on the more story spectrum of the you know, the

856
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:18.480
<v Speaker 4>games that have really captured my attention. There's lots of others,

857
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:21.920
<v Speaker 4>many far less story driven, but yeah, for the sake

858
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:23.400
<v Speaker 4>of brevity, all kind of there for now?

859
00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:25.159
<v Speaker 3>Well good?

860
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:28.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean that you know, final thought that you left

861
00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:29.800
<v Speaker 2>off with there, I mean, it reminds you what you

862
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:32.119
<v Speaker 2>said at the beginning of the conversation regarding the you know,

863
00:45:32.199 --> 00:45:35.599
<v Speaker 2>persistency of dark souls, and that you know, it presents

864
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:37.840
<v Speaker 2>the scenario of Okay, get to deal with what's in

865
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:40.000
<v Speaker 2>front of you and you know figured out.

866
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:41.480
<v Speaker 3>Essentially, you know.

867
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:44.760
<v Speaker 2>In one of my one of my philosophy classes, my

868
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:49.079
<v Speaker 2>students recently read Victor Frenkle's Man Search for Meaning, in

869
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:53.239
<v Speaker 2>which you know Frankel was a psychiatrist Holocaust survivor comes

870
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:55.480
<v Speaker 2>out writing the book on how he maintained a life

871
00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:59.280
<v Speaker 2>of meaning even in the camps, and he makes the

872
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:00.760
<v Speaker 2>point that a lot of times we asked the question

873
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:03.079
<v Speaker 2>of like, what is the meaning of life? And I mean,

874
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:06.199
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a perfectly valid question. However, he reframes

875
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:08.159
<v Speaker 2>that and says, what we also need to be asking

876
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:12.440
<v Speaker 2>ourselves is what is life demanding of me? That's a

877
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:15.599
<v Speaker 2>different kind of question. A lot of times we asked

878
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:18.719
<v Speaker 2>the question what is the meaning of life? We even

879
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:20.840
<v Speaker 2>though again as a Christian like I have answers to that,

880
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:21.800
<v Speaker 2>but I feel like a lot of time when we

881
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:24.599
<v Speaker 2>ask that question, we make it so abstract as to

882
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:28.159
<v Speaker 2>hide from any responsibility that might come from the answer,

883
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Whereas if we asked the question, like what do I

884
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:35.119
<v Speaker 2>actually need to do today? What are my responsibilities today?

885
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:37.559
<v Speaker 2>What do I do in light of the things that

886
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:41.000
<v Speaker 2>I've done yesterday, Like, given the facticity of what's before me,

887
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:41.960
<v Speaker 2>what do I.

888
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:42.559
<v Speaker 1>Do with that?

889
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:46.760
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's the least tangentially related to you know,

890
00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:48.199
<v Speaker 2>some of what you brought up.

891
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:52.719
<v Speaker 3>There, Josh, Do you have any experience with those games?

892
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:56.320
<v Speaker 5>I do not. Those are games that when they first

893
00:46:56.360 --> 00:46:59.400
<v Speaker 5>came out, I was a little bit younger and I

894
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:01.840
<v Speaker 5>wasn't a lot to play them. Again, probably a good

895
00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:06.039
<v Speaker 5>decision by my parents at the time two thousands, I

896
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:09.840
<v Speaker 5>think so. But I have been recommended those most those

897
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:12.599
<v Speaker 5>two most recent God of Horror games, not just by

898
00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:15.480
<v Speaker 5>one friends, not just by two, but probably at least

899
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:20.320
<v Speaker 5>three or four friends now. So that's probably a sign that, uh,

900
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:23.239
<v Speaker 5>I do need to visit those next time I play

901
00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:23.760
<v Speaker 5>a new game.

902
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.000
<v Speaker 3>So what are you guys say something like I.

903
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:35.159
<v Speaker 4>Shifted no no, the original God of War games, which

904
00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:38.480
<v Speaker 4>I played when I was making my first video on Kraados.

905
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:41.119
<v Speaker 4>I played the I played God Got of War one

906
00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:43.480
<v Speaker 4>and three, and they were they are very very violent,

907
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:48.480
<v Speaker 4>and the latter games are too. Honestly, so, I mean

908
00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:52.920
<v Speaker 4>credos is it's it's very much fantasy violence. So you know,

909
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:57.039
<v Speaker 4>the enemies are largely you know, fantasy characters. Uh, you

910
00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.719
<v Speaker 4>know fantasy monsters, so you know Drogger, right, undead, you

911
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:04.440
<v Speaker 4>know undead, you know form you know zombies basically or

912
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.159
<v Speaker 4>you know, wear wolf like creatures or whatever. You know,

913
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:09.880
<v Speaker 4>one of which you know, Kratos is you know finishing move,

914
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:12.880
<v Speaker 4>will grab the things jaw and rip it in half.

915
00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:13.360
<v Speaker 3>Right.

916
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:16.599
<v Speaker 4>Just there's a character who exclaims that'll hot my dreams

917
00:48:16.599 --> 00:48:19.360
<v Speaker 4>when he does that, and it makes for some funny moments,

918
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:22.079
<v Speaker 4>but it's they're rather brutal, right, They're they're umbrated games,

919
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:26.440
<v Speaker 4>and they they treat Creatos as the hulking spartan you know,

920
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:31.760
<v Speaker 4>you know god that he is. So yeah, not not

921
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:34.320
<v Speaker 4>good game for cure kids. They're a little they get

922
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:38.039
<v Speaker 4>a little rough, for sure. But yeah, I add me

923
00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:41.119
<v Speaker 4>to the list of people who wholeheartedly recommends them. In

924
00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:43.840
<v Speaker 4>terms of scope, for you know a lot of modern games,

925
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:46.239
<v Speaker 4>they're not horribly long. The first one is maybe twenty hours,

926
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:49.199
<v Speaker 4>the second is. I think I finished it at under thirty,

927
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:51.800
<v Speaker 4>especially because I don't I didn't bother playing in a

928
00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:57.440
<v Speaker 4>higher difficulty because I wanted to experience the story. Those

929
00:48:57.480 --> 00:48:59.920
<v Speaker 4>are very very good, very well done games. The right

930
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:02.119
<v Speaker 4>eating is excellent.

931
00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:06.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just now that you brought up violence, I

932
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.960
<v Speaker 2>should say that, you know, I don't. I don't know

933
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:11.199
<v Speaker 2>all of you know who's watching and listening to this,

934
00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:16.920
<v Speaker 2>and so don't uh well, you know, I endorse fall

935
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Out a little bit ago. Speaking of violence, the show

936
00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:24.760
<v Speaker 2>games grossly violent, like over the top, campy level of violence,

937
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.400
<v Speaker 2>which doesn't really bother me because it's like so over

938
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:31.280
<v Speaker 2>the top, but that's definitely something you have to be

939
00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:33.280
<v Speaker 2>okay with if you're going to engage at all with

940
00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:38.599
<v Speaker 2>anything related to that franchise. Now, as far as okay,

941
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:40.880
<v Speaker 2>another game of choice that I can bring up here,

942
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:46.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, in addition to Elder Scrolls, Fallout one that

943
00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:49.239
<v Speaker 2>I find myself returning to on a fairly regular basis,

944
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:51.400
<v Speaker 2>even still at least every couple of years or so.

945
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Knights of the Old Republic Right definitely top tier Star

946
00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:01.239
<v Speaker 2>Wars games, top tier RPGs in general. I think that

947
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:05.119
<v Speaker 2>this is just an era of Star Wars history lore

948
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:09.239
<v Speaker 2>that's so rich for storytelling. It's back when Star Wars

949
00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:11.960
<v Speaker 2>maintained obvious differences between.

950
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:12.320
<v Speaker 3>Good and evil.

951
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:17.280
<v Speaker 2>The Jedi are good, the Sith or evil, and I

952
00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:20.840
<v Speaker 2>think that that is just so so much more compelling

953
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:25.559
<v Speaker 2>from a story level as well as accurate philosophically. And

954
00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:29.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, I well, like most things, you know, you

955
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:32.039
<v Speaker 2>go back in history and there's a lot more to

956
00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:35.119
<v Speaker 2>deal with and well, the modern storytelling, I'll put it

957
00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:35.440
<v Speaker 2>that way.

958
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:41.679
<v Speaker 5>I'm really glad you mentioned this because there's like, I

959
00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.679
<v Speaker 5>don't know enough people who have played those games, and

960
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:48.519
<v Speaker 5>it kind of it bothers me. Sometimes nothing against people

961
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:51.119
<v Speaker 5>who haven't played them, but I want more people to

962
00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:55.119
<v Speaker 5>play those games, especially people who are, you know, fans

963
00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:58.679
<v Speaker 5>of Star Wars, people who are you know, maybe a

964
00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:00.960
<v Speaker 5>controversy a little bit real into Star Wars, you know,

965
00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:04.599
<v Speaker 5>people who respect the original trilogy and you know, hate

966
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:09.920
<v Speaker 5>the sequels and such things. Right, But that I always

967
00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:13.039
<v Speaker 5>what I like wanted what I wanted when like they

968
00:51:13.159 --> 00:51:17.440
<v Speaker 5>like announced the Force Awakens, right, episode seven, Force Awakens,

969
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:20.039
<v Speaker 5>that's what it was called whatever it was like ten

970
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:22.880
<v Speaker 5>ten eleven years ago when they announced that, when they

971
00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:24.880
<v Speaker 5>were like saying they were making a sequel trilogy to

972
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:27.159
<v Speaker 5>Star Wars, it's like going in the direction that like

973
00:51:27.320 --> 00:51:30.039
<v Speaker 5>Kotor was, is like what I wanted them to do right,

974
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:33.159
<v Speaker 5>especially like the second game where it's like you really

975
00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:36.119
<v Speaker 5>have like kray As almost like this like Nietzschean like

976
00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.760
<v Speaker 5>Zara thirstraw like type of figure who's kind of like

977
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:43.400
<v Speaker 5>challenging you to It's almost like they could be like

978
00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:46.079
<v Speaker 5>taken as like deconstructionists in some way, of like the

979
00:51:46.199 --> 00:51:47.800
<v Speaker 5>Jedi in the Sith and I guess it kind of

980
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:50.800
<v Speaker 5>is in some ways, but in some ways she presents

981
00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:54.320
<v Speaker 5>like this this via media, like really like gray path

982
00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:56.800
<v Speaker 5>between the two, and some sense she's like kind of

983
00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:58.920
<v Speaker 5>just like hates the Force all together and wants it

984
00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:02.159
<v Speaker 5>to die. But all those are really interesting ideas to

985
00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:04.039
<v Speaker 5>explore in Star Wars, right.

986
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:04.079
<v Speaker 4>And.

987
00:52:05.719 --> 00:52:08.360
<v Speaker 5>One of my I've been I've been watching the Star

988
00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:11.639
<v Speaker 5>Wars original trilogy since like before I can even remember, right,

989
00:52:11.719 --> 00:52:13.679
<v Speaker 5>So I'm talking to somebody who has been a fan

990
00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:18.760
<v Speaker 5>of those movies my entire life, and I think, like

991
00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:20.960
<v Speaker 5>the thing I noticed, like when I got when I

992
00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:23.360
<v Speaker 5>grew older and got a little more mature with Star

993
00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:26.760
<v Speaker 5>Wars is like I like the writing and the original trilogies.

994
00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:29.360
<v Speaker 5>I like the stories, I like all the character arcs,

995
00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:33.880
<v Speaker 5>and I more than like, I love the world of

996
00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:36.880
<v Speaker 5>Star Wars, like the original Star Wars just a really

997
00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:40.079
<v Speaker 5>cool world, like a lot of the design of you know,

998
00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:44.320
<v Speaker 5>the different characters, the different races, the different planets, like

999
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:48.000
<v Speaker 5>the the the escapes of like the cities and the

1000
00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:50.199
<v Speaker 5>deserts and the jungles like all of that, Like it's

1001
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:52.960
<v Speaker 5>it's a really cool world. The Jedi is a really

1002
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:56.079
<v Speaker 5>cool idea, you know, basically these kind of like monastic

1003
00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:58.719
<v Speaker 5>nights with laser swords in a sense like that's that's

1004
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:01.119
<v Speaker 5>that's a really cool idea, right, And it was in

1005
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:03.639
<v Speaker 5>a sense like probably in some ways really original in

1006
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:07.039
<v Speaker 5>its time. But the problem I've always seen with Star

1007
00:53:07.159 --> 00:53:11.039
<v Speaker 5>Wars until like besides like really with Kotor, is that

1008
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:14.920
<v Speaker 5>they have a great foundation that they never really built

1009
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:18.679
<v Speaker 5>off of. The original trilogy set up so much there

1010
00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:23.559
<v Speaker 5>that could be explored with literature, with philosophy, with a

1011
00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:28.559
<v Speaker 5>lot of interesting ideas and dynamics and character arcs, and

1012
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:31.199
<v Speaker 5>then you know, I'm not going to really talk about

1013
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:33.840
<v Speaker 5>the prequels because we could just talk about all the

1014
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:37.159
<v Speaker 5>memes and the acting and the script and all of that.

1015
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:39.320
<v Speaker 5>But with the sequels, I feel like there was a

1016
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:43.760
<v Speaker 5>real opportunity there with honestly, some quality actors, some big

1017
00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:47.639
<v Speaker 5>name Hollywood directors. Maybe you know, jaj Abrams could have

1018
00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:49.559
<v Speaker 5>done better. Maybe he could have I don't know, but

1019
00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:53.239
<v Speaker 5>those ideas, like I wanted them to explored so bad

1020
00:53:53.320 --> 00:53:55.960
<v Speaker 5>in episode eight. It really seemed like with the trailer

1021
00:53:56.079 --> 00:53:58.440
<v Speaker 5>and like the hype up to that it could they

1022
00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:00.840
<v Speaker 5>could have explored some of these ideas from like Kotor

1023
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:04.239
<v Speaker 5>one or Kotor two in it, and then it was

1024
00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:06.480
<v Speaker 5>just kind of a schlockfest, to be honest, I'm just

1025
00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:08.719
<v Speaker 5>gonna say it, like it just it just was. And

1026
00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:12.159
<v Speaker 5>they didn't do any of that with with like Luke,

1027
00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:14.760
<v Speaker 5>they didn't do any of that with with Ray or

1028
00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:16.960
<v Speaker 5>Kylo Red or any of these people, and it was

1029
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:20.480
<v Speaker 5>it was a huge disappointment. But well, all that to

1030
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:23.320
<v Speaker 5>say that, like Kotar one and two are the Star

1031
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:26.039
<v Speaker 5>Wars story that like I always dreamed of but has

1032
00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:29.719
<v Speaker 5>never been told on a screen or even in a book. Necessarily,

1033
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:34.280
<v Speaker 5>it's in these semi obscure video games from the original

1034
00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:37.039
<v Speaker 5>Xbox which a lot of people didn't even really play

1035
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:40.480
<v Speaker 5>in the early mid two thousands, and they're just kind

1036
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:42.039
<v Speaker 5>of you know, for instance, it was gonna be like

1037
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:43.719
<v Speaker 5>lost in history, and I'm like this, this is the

1038
00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:48.000
<v Speaker 5>greatest Star Wars story ever told, and few and far

1039
00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:51.039
<v Speaker 5>between people have experienced this or even know that it exists.

1040
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.239
<v Speaker 5>And like, there's my plug. Buy therefore you to play

1041
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:56.559
<v Speaker 5>those games. It's like if you'll give for something rich

1042
00:54:56.719 --> 00:54:59.280
<v Speaker 5>in the Star Wars universe, it's like, there's your story.

1043
00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:02.679
<v Speaker 5>Play the code our games, especially Kotor two especially.

1044
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:06.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely second that I'm not gonna go too deep

1045
00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:08.719
<v Speaker 2>in it because we'll be having some chats on it

1046
00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:10.639
<v Speaker 2>in a couple of months. We're doing some patron chats

1047
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:14.840
<v Speaker 2>on it. But you know, you brought up how in

1048
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:18.280
<v Speaker 2>the second one, Kreya like basically tries to deconstruct the Force,

1049
00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:21.599
<v Speaker 2>essentially deconstruct the lines between good and evil, the Jedi

1050
00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:25.599
<v Speaker 2>and the Sith. But what makes that different than what

1051
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:28.840
<v Speaker 2>happens in the newer movies is that she's the obvious villain,

1052
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:33.360
<v Speaker 2>like she does something wrong, which just shows that the

1053
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:38.480
<v Speaker 2>start contrasts in storytelling, whereas so much of I mean,

1054
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:41.360
<v Speaker 2>I know that we could it'd be easy to spend

1055
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:44.480
<v Speaker 2>the rest of this conversation just hating on the new movies,

1056
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:49.119
<v Speaker 2>but you know, so much of those movies are just

1057
00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:52.519
<v Speaker 2>they're deconstructing in the wrong way, which is the spirit

1058
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:55.159
<v Speaker 2>of the age I suppose, where all the heroes get

1059
00:55:55.239 --> 00:55:59.000
<v Speaker 2>ripped apart. You know that Han Solo, obviously one of

1060
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:01.920
<v Speaker 2>the coolest characters in the franchise, is now this like

1061
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:08.719
<v Speaker 2>deadbeat divorcee who's just like not really doing anything significant anymore,

1062
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:12.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, every Luke, I mean, he's obviously a lesser

1063
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:15.079
<v Speaker 2>form of what he really should have been. By this

1064
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:19.000
<v Speaker 2>point in his story. All the heroes are getting torn down.

1065
00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:22.119
<v Speaker 2>The institution of the Jedi gets torn down as just

1066
00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:26.400
<v Speaker 2>this artifice of raw power. You know, it's all about deconstruction,

1067
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:31.679
<v Speaker 2>as if that's somehow spirit of nobility. I don't know,

1068
00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:37.880
<v Speaker 2>but Kotor is Star Wars as it should have been,

1069
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:44.559
<v Speaker 2>And you know, honestly, I can't elevate it above the

1070
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:49.119
<v Speaker 2>original trilogy simply because that's that's the original. But I

1071
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:51.119
<v Speaker 2>think a case can be made that it is an

1072
00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:55.000
<v Speaker 2>even better story. But again, I that's hard to say

1073
00:56:55.119 --> 00:56:58.239
<v Speaker 2>looking back. I same, do you have any experience of

1074
00:56:58.280 --> 00:56:58.719
<v Speaker 2>those games.

1075
00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:01.159
<v Speaker 4>I've played the first one, I've yet to play the

1076
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:06.519
<v Speaker 4>second one. I played the first one last year for

1077
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:10.360
<v Speaker 4>the first time. I I I set a deadline for

1078
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:11.920
<v Speaker 4>myself said I'm gonna play this game and I make

1079
00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:13.920
<v Speaker 4>a video about it by this deadline, and I kind

1080
00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:17.639
<v Speaker 4>of and then that was right before I was finishing

1081
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:20.039
<v Speaker 4>another very long video, so I was a little bit

1082
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:21.320
<v Speaker 4>rushed in that, and I didn't do as good of

1083
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:23.079
<v Speaker 4>a job as I would have liked. And I admit

1084
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:24.760
<v Speaker 4>I played the game under like a little bit of

1085
00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:26.840
<v Speaker 4>time crunch, so I probably didn't enjoy it as much

1086
00:57:26.840 --> 00:57:28.719
<v Speaker 4>I would as I would have liked. I also played

1087
00:57:28.719 --> 00:57:31.400
<v Speaker 4>it twenty years after it came out, and I went,

1088
00:57:31.639 --> 00:57:34.519
<v Speaker 4>I would have enjoyed this a lot more eighteen years

1089
00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:36.840
<v Speaker 4>ago if I had played it before. I had the

1090
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:41.119
<v Speaker 4>expectations of what modern RPGs look like, just in their combat,

1091
00:57:41.199 --> 00:57:44.559
<v Speaker 4>in their dialogue, not not the quality of the dialogue,

1092
00:57:44.599 --> 00:57:47.760
<v Speaker 4>but just how it's visually portrayed. Where all the dialogue

1093
00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:51.599
<v Speaker 4>and Kotor is just a talking head, which is not

1094
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:57.719
<v Speaker 4>as interesting as seeing an actual dynamic cutscene such as technology,

1095
00:57:58.239 --> 00:58:00.840
<v Speaker 4>that's how it goes. I found the philosophy of that

1096
00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:04.360
<v Speaker 4>game to be wonderful. Again, it is very very much

1097
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:08.519
<v Speaker 4>a story of redemption, assuming you make light size choices.

1098
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:12.079
<v Speaker 4>And I mean but even even at the end there

1099
00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:17.880
<v Speaker 4>right like Revan offers redemption to Malick. It's Malick, right,

1100
00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:21.880
<v Speaker 4>that's it. Yeah, you know, even saying that, like I

1101
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:24.360
<v Speaker 4>found it, you can find it too, despite him, you know,

1102
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:28.360
<v Speaker 4>persisting in in his errors till till that end. And yeah,

1103
00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:31.079
<v Speaker 4>and you find that message, you look for that message,

1104
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:32.079
<v Speaker 4>you find that message.

1105
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:33.360
<v Speaker 3>Ever, what can we do? Move on?

1106
00:58:33.639 --> 00:58:35.639
<v Speaker 4>You move forward. You can't change what's done. You can

1107
00:58:35.719 --> 00:58:39.199
<v Speaker 4>only move on. That's that's the Darret quote from Dead

1108
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:43.119
<v Speaker 4>Redemption too. Yeah, so it's I find I find it

1109
00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:47.400
<v Speaker 4>fascinating and wonderful that that theme runs through so many

1110
00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:50.960
<v Speaker 4>incredible stories. And yeah, absolutely, the storytelling and you know,

1111
00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:54.280
<v Speaker 4>just the character dynamics of of Kotor are something that

1112
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:59.320
<v Speaker 4>don't really exist in Star Wars anymore. Absolutely, I will

1113
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:02.719
<v Speaker 4>frame from bashing the sequels any further. You guys have

1114
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:04.679
<v Speaker 4>done a fantastic job. I'm not going to do that.

1115
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:06.679
<v Speaker 4>That's not what we're talking about. I will say one thing.

1116
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:08.760
<v Speaker 4>It's fine for us, as human beings living on a

1117
00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:10.760
<v Speaker 4>planet Earth to say laser swords, because that is our

1118
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:13.880
<v Speaker 4>conceptual knowledge of a lightsaber, right, it's the sword made

1119
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:16.519
<v Speaker 4>out of a laser. Luke says, laser sword. In the

1120
00:59:16.599 --> 00:59:20.800
<v Speaker 4>last Jedi, and that drives me nuts because it's a lightsaber.

1121
00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:23.159
<v Speaker 4>He knows it as a lightsaber. They don't know what

1122
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:26.119
<v Speaker 4>swords are. All they know are lightsabers. I mean, I

1123
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:28.840
<v Speaker 4>suppose there could be other some sort of swords or whatever,

1124
00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:30.800
<v Speaker 4>but it's it's a lightsaber, he says it in this

1125
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:35.519
<v Speaker 4>you know, just again it's deconstructing, right, like he's tearing

1126
00:59:35.559 --> 00:59:37.920
<v Speaker 4>down the idea of a very lights heaer by calling

1127
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:42.599
<v Speaker 4>it a derogatory name. Drives me insane. Anyhow, the others,

1128
00:59:42.679 --> 00:59:43.920
<v Speaker 4>the other Star Wars game.

1129
00:59:44.199 --> 00:59:46.920
<v Speaker 5>What je so this is one of those Ryan John

1130
00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:48.480
<v Speaker 5>citizens that was thrown Yeah.

1131
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:53.679
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, the other Star Wars game that I love to death.

1132
00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:56.559
<v Speaker 4>It's a very simple game. It takes maybe six hours

1133
00:59:56.599 --> 01:00:00.400
<v Speaker 4>to play through. Is Star Wars Republic Commando the original

1134
01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:02.039
<v Speaker 4>Xbox game? I think it came out around the same

1135
01:00:02.119 --> 01:00:03.880
<v Speaker 4>year's Kodere two thosand and four two thousand and five.

1136
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:06.360
<v Speaker 4>I think it was like co Tor, Star Wars Battle

1137
01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:08.599
<v Speaker 4>Friend B. It's probably command All came out right around

1138
01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:10.960
<v Speaker 4>the same time. Uh so, what a year for Star

1139
01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:13.920
<v Speaker 4>Wars video games. And it is if you haven't played it,

1140
01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:16.840
<v Speaker 4>which you probably haven't because it's very It really got buried.

1141
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:21.199
<v Speaker 4>It's a story about a commando squad Clone Commandos during

1142
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:25.480
<v Speaker 4>the initially like the Battle of Genosis, and then a

1143
01:00:25.519 --> 01:00:28.559
<v Speaker 4>couple of later missions including Battle and Kshik Battle on

1144
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:32.079
<v Speaker 4>Kashik which is seen in episode three of the prequels,

1145
01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:36.079
<v Speaker 4>and basically they were kind of behind enemy lines missions. Uh,

1146
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:39.719
<v Speaker 4>and it is fantastic. It's you know, it's again. It's

1147
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:43.159
<v Speaker 4>a short first person shooter where you're just going through.

1148
01:00:43.239 --> 01:00:46.880
<v Speaker 4>You're fighting you know, droids and gen oceans and you know,

1149
01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:53.039
<v Speaker 4>raw mercenaries hired by the separatists. But what forms the

1150
01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:55.480
<v Speaker 4>core of the game is the bond that these four

1151
01:00:56.199 --> 01:00:59.559
<v Speaker 4>Clone Commandos share, right, they all have their initial individual

1152
01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.159
<v Speaker 4>distinct personalities, because otherwise it would just be kind of

1153
01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:03.840
<v Speaker 4>weird if they were in fact just the same person,

1154
01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:06.599
<v Speaker 4>even though they are the same person, and they have

1155
01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:09.719
<v Speaker 4>this incredible bond of brotherhood. My favorite thing to ever

1156
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:12.000
<v Speaker 4>appear on a screen as Band of Brothers, the story

1157
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:13.880
<v Speaker 4>about the one hundred and first Airborne at one of

1158
01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:16.159
<v Speaker 4>their companies right in the in the war in Europe

1159
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:19.559
<v Speaker 4>in World War Two, because it shows this just how

1160
01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:22.960
<v Speaker 4>war forges this bond of brotherhood and how like that

1161
01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:25.920
<v Speaker 4>can be found like nowhere else.

1162
01:01:26.360 --> 01:01:26.480
<v Speaker 3>Right.

1163
01:01:26.679 --> 01:01:29.079
<v Speaker 4>War is a horrible, horrible, terrible thing, one of the

1164
01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:32.239
<v Speaker 4>worst blights on humanity, but it forges some of the

1165
01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:36.000
<v Speaker 4>most incredible love. And I think that's I mean that

1166
01:01:36.440 --> 01:01:40.000
<v Speaker 4>you talk about like the beauty of God's creation, like

1167
01:01:40.039 --> 01:01:44.079
<v Speaker 4>God's ability to you know, reshape, to make all things

1168
01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:47.559
<v Speaker 4>new right into sense, right where he takes this horrible

1169
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:51.480
<v Speaker 4>thing and he creates something incredible, incredibly beautiful out of it,

1170
01:01:51.559 --> 01:01:53.760
<v Speaker 4>even if, like you know, on Earth, you know, may

1171
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:55.920
<v Speaker 4>last a short time because men get killed in war,

1172
01:01:56.199 --> 01:01:58.239
<v Speaker 4>but they had they found this love that they couldn't

1173
01:01:58.239 --> 01:02:01.599
<v Speaker 4>find anywhere else. And that you find that distinctly in

1174
01:02:01.719 --> 01:02:06.320
<v Speaker 4>Republic Commando right where these you know, these these four

1175
01:02:06.639 --> 01:02:09.159
<v Speaker 4>clones right they are they consider each other brothers. They

1176
01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:12.599
<v Speaker 4>would happily and immediately die, you know, rather than see

1177
01:02:12.639 --> 01:02:17.519
<v Speaker 4>one of their comrades fall. And it's a phenomenally phenomenally

1178
01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:20.239
<v Speaker 4>done story. It's something I made a video about it

1179
01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:22.000
<v Speaker 4>a long time ago, and like I need to revisit

1180
01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:25.320
<v Speaker 4>that and talk about that more in depth. You know,

1181
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:27.400
<v Speaker 4>it makes me think of like Halo Reach to some

1182
01:02:27.519 --> 01:02:30.639
<v Speaker 4>extent too, where you know it is kind of you know,

1183
01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:34.480
<v Speaker 4>they're doomed in a sense that it's not quite the

1184
01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:37.559
<v Speaker 4>same as Halo Reach, where you know they all are doomed,

1185
01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:40.159
<v Speaker 4>but you know, you kind of you kind of know

1186
01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:43.239
<v Speaker 4>this can't really be a happy ending, but you're there

1187
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:45.920
<v Speaker 4>for you know, the bonds that are forged. And yeah,

1188
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:48.760
<v Speaker 4>it's it's very very good. There's another one, just if

1189
01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:50.800
<v Speaker 4>you can find it on Steam for cheap, which it

1190
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:54.559
<v Speaker 4>always is, and uh, yeah, definitely want to check out.

1191
01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:55.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1192
01:02:56.119 --> 01:03:00.679
<v Speaker 2>I think that your description just shows how rich Star

1193
01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:03.639
<v Speaker 2>Wars is for good storytelling, because you know, it's a

1194
01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:06.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of times it's categorized as sci fi, but it's not.

1195
01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:10.760
<v Speaker 2>It's fantasy that happens to be in space. It's not

1196
01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:14.199
<v Speaker 2>technologically driven, it's it is a fantasy story. I mean,

1197
01:03:14.679 --> 01:03:18.519
<v Speaker 2>the the Jedi are essentially wizards with with swords too,

1198
01:03:18.639 --> 01:03:23.400
<v Speaker 2>I guess use a derogatory term, but you know, I

1199
01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:25.960
<v Speaker 2>mean another well we're on on this theme. I mean

1200
01:03:26.039 --> 01:03:29.599
<v Speaker 2>another title the Well, I'm guess I'm going back to

1201
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:33.400
<v Speaker 2>the Old Republic, but the the MMO is actually really good.

1202
01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:37.159
<v Speaker 2>The start the Old Republic MMO and I I haven't

1203
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:39.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't play a lot of MMOs. I played Wow

1204
01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:41.599
<v Speaker 2>for a while when it first came out. I went

1205
01:03:41.719 --> 01:03:46.840
<v Speaker 2>from from the beta up through Burning Crusade. But the

1206
01:03:47.239 --> 01:03:51.519
<v Speaker 2>The Old Republic MMO really takes that basic model. It's

1207
01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:53.039
<v Speaker 2>kind of a wild skin, Like I guess, a lot

1208
01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:55.880
<v Speaker 2>of things are more or less, but you know, each

1209
01:03:56.039 --> 01:03:59.880
<v Speaker 2>of the classes gets its own character story. That's basic.

1210
01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:02.960
<v Speaker 2>The KO tore length at least nearly, which you know,

1211
01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't really seen before to have that much replay value,

1212
01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:10.880
<v Speaker 2>that much variability, that much storytelling built into this one game,

1213
01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:15.400
<v Speaker 2>and it's, uh, yeah, so that's just I don't know.

1214
01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:16.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't have a who lot else to build on that,

1215
01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:19.880
<v Speaker 2>because again, it's like eight different games essentially built into

1216
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:21.559
<v Speaker 2>one as far as the storytelling goes.

1217
01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:23.920
<v Speaker 3>Josh, we are you going to say something?

1218
01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:26.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I don't. I definitely don't know about The Old

1219
01:04:26.920 --> 01:04:29.360
<v Speaker 5>Republic MMO because I've never played it, But I was

1220
01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:33.360
<v Speaker 5>just gonna, like, I was gonna second his h his recommendation,

1221
01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:37.599
<v Speaker 5>everything he said about Republic Commando and also offer since

1222
01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:41.760
<v Speaker 5>like you said, we're on the topic now, yeah, now

1223
01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:43.239
<v Speaker 5>you're saying it. There's like there was a lot of

1224
01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:45.840
<v Speaker 5>Star Wars gems and from like two thousand, two thousand

1225
01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:51.679
<v Speaker 5>and five, and Jedi Outcast and then Jedi Jedi Academy.

1226
01:04:51.679 --> 01:04:54.320
<v Speaker 5>I'm getting them in the right, I think, but they

1227
01:04:54.360 --> 01:05:00.440
<v Speaker 5>were basically like the stories of Luke Skywalker after Return

1228
01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:03.760
<v Speaker 5>of the Jedi and him like he's like the new

1229
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:07.400
<v Speaker 5>like Jedi Master, he's like the Yoda. Now he's not

1230
01:05:07.519 --> 01:05:09.960
<v Speaker 5>like super old or anything. He's still kind of looks

1231
01:05:10.039 --> 01:05:11.840
<v Speaker 5>like you know, Mark Hamill looks like in like the

1232
01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:13.920
<v Speaker 5>mid eighties, but he's like that.

1233
01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:16.840
<v Speaker 3>He's not drinking blue milk on Island yet.

1234
01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:21.280
<v Speaker 5>No, he's not drinking some like aliens utter or something

1235
01:05:21.480 --> 01:05:24.679
<v Speaker 5>like that. By me means no. And this never happens

1236
01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:27.039
<v Speaker 5>in that story out Oft think thankfully because they didn't

1237
01:05:27.159 --> 01:05:31.360
<v Speaker 5>you know, bastardize his character in any way. But it's

1238
01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:33.559
<v Speaker 5>it's really Luke like right after it's like a little

1239
01:05:33.559 --> 01:05:35.679
<v Speaker 5>bit after Return of the Jedi, and he's he's rebuilding

1240
01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:38.760
<v Speaker 5>like the Jedi. He's building the Jedi Academy as is

1241
01:05:38.840 --> 01:05:40.760
<v Speaker 5>in the name of in the name of the game title,

1242
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:43.960
<v Speaker 5>and like it's it's that story, and like your your

1243
01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:47.320
<v Speaker 5>character is basically one of his, like the apprentices and

1244
01:05:47.440 --> 01:05:52.079
<v Speaker 5>padawans there, and he's got this Jedi night named Kyle Kataran,

1245
01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:54.719
<v Speaker 5>who's like one of the most underrated Star Wars characters

1246
01:05:54.760 --> 01:05:57.679
<v Speaker 5>of all time. He's almost like Han Solo if you

1247
01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:00.920
<v Speaker 5>became a Jedi. He's got that like like aristhmatictic, like

1248
01:06:01.159 --> 01:06:06.159
<v Speaker 5>rogue smoke order, sarcastic personality type. But he's great. Those

1249
01:06:06.199 --> 01:06:09.079
<v Speaker 5>games are awesome too. I couldn't recommend them enough as well.

1250
01:06:11.559 --> 01:06:13.559
<v Speaker 4>There's something I was going to say, but it slipped

1251
01:06:13.639 --> 01:06:16.800
<v Speaker 4>my mind. But yeah, okay, glad I found another the

1252
01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:20.480
<v Speaker 4>Commando fan the game is has captured my heart forever.

1253
01:06:22.119 --> 01:06:25.239
<v Speaker 4>My wife's too, but she doesn't play a whole lot

1254
01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:28.760
<v Speaker 4>of games. Lack of time and you know, just not

1255
01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.960
<v Speaker 4>not her favorite way to relax. But uh, she she

1256
01:06:32.119 --> 01:06:34.639
<v Speaker 4>bought me off off Etsy a couple a couple of

1257
01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:38.159
<v Speaker 4>different Christmases, like two of the helmets from from the game,

1258
01:06:38.960 --> 01:06:41.480
<v Speaker 4>so I had those are on like on my bookshelf

1259
01:06:41.559 --> 01:06:45.039
<v Speaker 4>that stands behind me when I when I filmed videos. Yeah,

1260
01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:48.679
<v Speaker 4>phenomenal story, that's super awesome.

1261
01:06:48.679 --> 01:06:50.639
<v Speaker 5>I have a friend that like makes uh he like

1262
01:06:50.760 --> 01:06:53.719
<v Speaker 5>made like Mandalorian helmets for fun. He's made like a

1263
01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:56.800
<v Speaker 5>helmet from Fallout and stuff like that too, But super

1264
01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:58.480
<v Speaker 5>cool stuff. When people do that.

1265
01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:06.840
<v Speaker 2>Cool and I feel like we could probably go around

1266
01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:13.119
<v Speaker 2>all night, just different games laid. But I mean me,

1267
01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:16.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll throw one more at least from my side. And

1268
01:07:16.679 --> 01:07:18.960
<v Speaker 2>really it's I mean, originally it's built off the same

1269
01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:21.480
<v Speaker 2>model of Kotor, and that, of course is dragon Age,

1270
01:07:22.559 --> 01:07:23.760
<v Speaker 2>which I've played.

1271
01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:25.280
<v Speaker 3>I played a lot of.

1272
01:07:25.360 --> 01:07:29.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean I played one and two and sometimes three

1273
01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:32.000
<v Speaker 2>on a fairly regular rotation for a while. Just another

1274
01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:36.599
<v Speaker 2>rich fantasy series, you know, because I was there in

1275
01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:40.119
<v Speaker 2>the beginning that the clunky elements of dragon Age origins,

1276
01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:43.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, never really bothered me, just as with Kotor,

1277
01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:46.519
<v Speaker 2>because I definitely recognize that Sam says that getting into

1278
01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:49.920
<v Speaker 2>those games can be difficult jumping in now without having that,

1279
01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:53.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, without being there three thousand years ago, as

1280
01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Alrod would say.

1281
01:07:55.760 --> 01:07:55.800
<v Speaker 4>That.

1282
01:07:57.360 --> 01:07:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Well though, by the way, you know, there is supposedly

1283
01:08:00.039 --> 01:08:03.360
<v Speaker 2>a Kotor rebake in the works. There there's been one

1284
01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:08.719
<v Speaker 2>off and on studio problems, but for everything I can tell,

1285
01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:13.840
<v Speaker 2>it's still happening at some point. But yeah, but dragon Age,

1286
01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:16.239
<v Speaker 2>of course, is another one of those franchises that has

1287
01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:21.880
<v Speaker 2>just tanked to postmodern ideology. Everything that I've seen from

1288
01:08:22.279 --> 01:08:26.119
<v Speaker 2>the latest installation that's come out had just ruined it

1289
01:08:26.199 --> 01:08:32.720
<v Speaker 2>for me. It's it's it's so easy I think for creators,

1290
01:08:32.800 --> 01:08:37.119
<v Speaker 2>for studios to move away from how do I tell

1291
01:08:37.159 --> 01:08:40.199
<v Speaker 2>a story? To how do I tell the story that

1292
01:08:41.239 --> 01:08:43.159
<v Speaker 2>people not even just that they want to hear? How

1293
01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:44.840
<v Speaker 2>do I tell the story that people should hear?

1294
01:08:45.479 --> 01:08:45.560
<v Speaker 4>Right?

1295
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:47.439
<v Speaker 2>And that's when you get into propaganda. That's that same

1296
01:08:47.560 --> 01:08:51.039
<v Speaker 2>was saying, it's the other side of the I'm going

1297
01:08:51.079 --> 01:08:53.359
<v Speaker 2>to tell a Christian story, but I'm gonna tell some

1298
01:08:53.479 --> 01:08:56.319
<v Speaker 2>postmodern Marxist deconstruction of story.

1299
01:08:57.159 --> 01:08:59.079
<v Speaker 3>And so it's just it's just kind of a shame

1300
01:08:59.079 --> 01:08:59.880
<v Speaker 3>where things go with it.

1301
01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:03.600
<v Speaker 4>I remember what I was about to say. I've not

1302
01:09:03.760 --> 01:09:06.319
<v Speaker 4>played I've never Touched the Old Republic. I've not played

1303
01:09:06.319 --> 01:09:09.239
<v Speaker 4>a second of it, simply due to lack of time.

1304
01:09:09.319 --> 01:09:12.039
<v Speaker 4>And also I've never played an MMO, so I just

1305
01:09:12.119 --> 01:09:15.960
<v Speaker 4>haven't really depped my toes in. But the cinematic trailers

1306
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:20.760
<v Speaker 4>for that game are incredible. I will go and rewatch

1307
01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:24.279
<v Speaker 4>them from time to time on YouTube. They are some

1308
01:09:24.399 --> 01:09:27.640
<v Speaker 4>of the best storytelling like in the Star Wars universe.

1309
01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:32.279
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not being hyperbolic, Yes, yes, I mean those

1310
01:09:32.359 --> 01:09:35.119
<v Speaker 2>games are incredible for storytelling. As far as the end

1311
01:09:35.199 --> 01:09:37.680
<v Speaker 2>game as well as the cut scenes. I mean as

1312
01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:40.760
<v Speaker 2>far it's I mean, I have not played many momos,

1313
01:09:40.800 --> 01:09:44.039
<v Speaker 2>like I said, I've played Wow, I've played a good

1314
01:09:44.079 --> 01:09:46.000
<v Speaker 2>bit of The Old Republic. I did my toes a

1315
01:09:46.039 --> 01:09:47.760
<v Speaker 2>little bit in the Elder Schools online, but that just

1316
01:09:47.800 --> 01:09:50.399
<v Speaker 2>didn't last more than a few hours before I just

1317
01:09:50.680 --> 01:09:54.640
<v Speaker 2>decided that wasn't for me. But Star Wars the Old Republic,

1318
01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:56.800
<v Speaker 2>it's it's a fantastic game. And even if you're not

1319
01:09:56.880 --> 01:09:59.560
<v Speaker 2>into the MMO elements of it, which you know, I

1320
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:03.039
<v Speaker 2>I need to just play by myself. I'm an independent

1321
01:10:03.079 --> 01:10:06.159
<v Speaker 2>gamer for the most part. You know, you can go

1322
01:10:06.319 --> 01:10:09.479
<v Speaker 2>through those play essentially like single player games with just

1323
01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:13.039
<v Speaker 2>very rich storytelling. Well, I mean, is there anything else?

1324
01:10:13.520 --> 01:10:15.199
<v Speaker 2>And I said, we could go on all night.

1325
01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:16.000
<v Speaker 3>We won't do.

1326
01:10:16.079 --> 01:10:19.760
<v Speaker 2>That's anything on Stammer or Josh that you wanted to

1327
01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:20.119
<v Speaker 2>bring up.

1328
01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:23.159
<v Speaker 4>We've talked a lot about like kind of story during games,

1329
01:10:24.079 --> 01:10:25.600
<v Speaker 4>but I think one of the games one of the

1330
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:28.720
<v Speaker 4>aspects that makes games so good is that you can

1331
01:10:28.760 --> 01:10:31.399
<v Speaker 4>tell your own story, right, like just your progress through

1332
01:10:31.439 --> 01:10:35.159
<v Speaker 4>the game is is itself often a story. So some

1333
01:10:35.279 --> 01:10:38.199
<v Speaker 4>of my two of my favorite games that are both

1334
01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:41.640
<v Speaker 4>of my top ten hours on Steam are the Xcom games,

1335
01:10:42.119 --> 01:10:44.600
<v Speaker 4>not the original ones from like the early nineties, but

1336
01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:47.520
<v Speaker 4>the reboot from twenty twelve and then the Xcom two

1337
01:10:47.560 --> 01:10:52.239
<v Speaker 4>from twenty sixteen, And so basically it's an alien invasion.

1338
01:10:52.720 --> 01:10:56.680
<v Speaker 4>Xcom is the you know, multinational agency that comes together

1339
01:10:57.079 --> 01:11:00.520
<v Speaker 4>and unlike all other multi national agencies or created, is

1340
01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:03.880
<v Speaker 4>actually effective. So right, so you're fighting back against the

1341
01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:07.000
<v Speaker 4>aliens and you know, progressing your technology tree, you know,

1342
01:11:07.319 --> 01:11:10.119
<v Speaker 4>doing various research, building out your base, et cetera, all

1343
01:11:10.159 --> 01:11:12.520
<v Speaker 4>those you know, good kind of RPG like elements. But

1344
01:11:13.199 --> 01:11:15.479
<v Speaker 4>you are controlling a you know, kind of a top

1345
01:11:15.560 --> 01:11:17.840
<v Speaker 4>down almost like you know, almost like a table talp game,

1346
01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:20.920
<v Speaker 4>squad of soldiers that you you know, on take turns,

1347
01:11:21.039 --> 01:11:23.880
<v Speaker 4>you know, moving around the maps, the tactical turn based game.

1348
01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:25.399
<v Speaker 4>You move around the map, you shoot the anlyats, you

1349
01:11:25.399 --> 01:11:29.000
<v Speaker 4>throw the grenades. You know, you win the mission and

1350
01:11:29.159 --> 01:11:31.000
<v Speaker 4>the story. This game would not be half as good

1351
01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:34.039
<v Speaker 4>if it didn't let you name your characters, but it does,

1352
01:11:34.800 --> 01:11:37.439
<v Speaker 4>and so you can name them Ao and are Eric,

1353
01:11:37.560 --> 01:11:40.119
<v Speaker 4>orn Almer and so forth, or you can give them

1354
01:11:40.159 --> 01:11:42.479
<v Speaker 4>names from Star Wars or pick your favorite fantasy you

1355
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:45.720
<v Speaker 4>know series, or name them after your friends and family whatever,

1356
01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:49.439
<v Speaker 4>all right, but then you have because you have characters, right,

1357
01:11:49.439 --> 01:11:52.359
<v Speaker 4>because you have people, this is now a story, right,

1358
01:11:52.520 --> 01:11:57.279
<v Speaker 4>These characters now have arcs almost right where they get wounded,

1359
01:11:57.720 --> 01:12:00.000
<v Speaker 4>you know, they're severely you know, wounded by a place

1360
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:02.079
<v Speaker 4>asthma bolt from from an alien. But they come back

1361
01:12:02.479 --> 01:12:04.119
<v Speaker 4>and you know they rise, you know, the top rank

1362
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:06.039
<v Speaker 4>they have the most kills of the whole mission, right,

1363
01:12:06.199 --> 01:12:08.399
<v Speaker 4>or you know someone who's your star throughout the whole

1364
01:12:08.800 --> 01:12:11.760
<v Speaker 4>whole mission. You know, it gets the gets the floor

1365
01:12:11.800 --> 01:12:13.439
<v Speaker 4>blown out from out of them, the falls to their death.

1366
01:12:13.800 --> 01:12:13.920
<v Speaker 2>Right.

1367
01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:16.640
<v Speaker 4>So it's kind of it lets you kind of create

1368
01:12:16.720 --> 01:12:19.319
<v Speaker 4>this this story in your mind as you go through

1369
01:12:19.439 --> 01:12:22.319
<v Speaker 4>this games, you know, and and it's got lots of

1370
01:12:22.359 --> 01:12:24.680
<v Speaker 4>other elements which you could get value of. Again, it's

1371
01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:28.720
<v Speaker 4>it's planning, thinking ahead, perseverance. You make the game, the

1372
01:12:28.960 --> 01:12:33.600
<v Speaker 4>games more difficult, actually tactical thinking, not just rushing through.

1373
01:12:34.319 --> 01:12:35.960
<v Speaker 4>But I love the element of being able to create

1374
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:37.520
<v Speaker 4>your own story. And this is where games, you know,

1375
01:12:37.720 --> 01:12:40.159
<v Speaker 4>RPGs and the like are, you know, really shines that

1376
01:12:40.279 --> 01:12:43.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, the choices you make matter. And I think

1377
01:12:43.840 --> 01:12:45.520
<v Speaker 4>that's one of the one of the things that games

1378
01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:49.439
<v Speaker 4>to tell people best because they're interactive. It forces you

1379
01:12:49.520 --> 01:12:52.560
<v Speaker 4>to make choices, and those choices mattering is you know

1380
01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:55.960
<v Speaker 4>something that is obviously applicable to our for day life.

1381
01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:00.920
<v Speaker 2>So you mentioned that one of your your you know,

1382
01:13:01.319 --> 01:13:04.159
<v Speaker 2>highest our account on Steam. What do you think it's

1383
01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:06.479
<v Speaker 2>your your your number one Steam game most out.

1384
01:13:06.760 --> 01:13:08.760
<v Speaker 4>I know I looked this up recently, and I know

1385
01:13:08.840 --> 01:13:12.159
<v Speaker 4>it's it's more than double anything else. The game is

1386
01:13:12.199 --> 01:13:15.880
<v Speaker 4>called Rocket League, and this is again very very opposite

1387
01:13:15.960 --> 01:13:18.520
<v Speaker 4>end of the spectrum. Everything we've been talking about. Rocket

1388
01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:21.720
<v Speaker 4>League is soccer with rocket powered cars. It's it is

1389
01:13:21.800 --> 01:13:22.880
<v Speaker 4>exactly what it sounds like.

1390
01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:24.079
<v Speaker 3>I have.

1391
01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:26.560
<v Speaker 4>I think it's something like six hundred hours on Steam,

1392
01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:29.399
<v Speaker 4>and I know that that number is maybe a little

1393
01:13:29.399 --> 01:13:31.600
<v Speaker 4>more half of my actual total number of hours in

1394
01:13:31.720 --> 01:13:33.760
<v Speaker 4>the game. I played on Xbox, and I played on

1395
01:13:33.800 --> 01:13:37.199
<v Speaker 4>like Epic Games for a while for whatever reason. Uh,

1396
01:13:37.359 --> 01:13:39.920
<v Speaker 4>that's the game I get back into in like twenty

1397
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:41.760
<v Speaker 4>fifteen when it came out and I played a lot.

1398
01:13:41.800 --> 01:13:44.239
<v Speaker 4>I played it a lot with my friends and it

1399
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:46.560
<v Speaker 4>was a game I got very good at, which again

1400
01:13:46.600 --> 01:13:50.319
<v Speaker 4>there's it's the most sport like video game that you

1401
01:13:50.399 --> 01:13:54.600
<v Speaker 4>could possibly ever make, because it's most sport video games Madden,

1402
01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:57.520
<v Speaker 4>NHL whatever are just like press a button to throw

1403
01:13:57.560 --> 01:14:00.399
<v Speaker 4>the throw a pass, shoot the puck, shoot the ball, whatever,

1404
01:14:01.159 --> 01:14:04.880
<v Speaker 4>and like there's very little actual refined skill in it,

1405
01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:08.479
<v Speaker 4>whereas Rocket League is you have minute control over your

1406
01:14:08.520 --> 01:14:10.880
<v Speaker 4>car and it's all physics based, so how you hit

1407
01:14:10.920 --> 01:14:13.800
<v Speaker 4>the ball at what point, at what angle, what speed matters,

1408
01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:17.199
<v Speaker 4>and you know where the ball actually goes right, So

1409
01:14:17.279 --> 01:14:20.840
<v Speaker 4>it is it's just entirely skilled. There's basically no luck whatsoever.

1410
01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:24.119
<v Speaker 4>And having play a lot of sports when I was younger,

1411
01:14:24.439 --> 01:14:26.880
<v Speaker 4>that kind of filled that need for a little bit,

1412
01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:30.000
<v Speaker 4>whereas like I'm not wasn't competing in sports anymore, so

1413
01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:33.720
<v Speaker 4>it gave me something to really practice and get good at.

1414
01:14:34.640 --> 01:14:36.680
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, very different for most of the stuff we've

1415
01:14:36.680 --> 01:14:38.560
<v Speaker 4>been talking about, And that's kind of what I love

1416
01:14:38.600 --> 01:14:41.279
<v Speaker 4>about video games is where it can it can you know,

1417
01:14:41.479 --> 01:14:43.920
<v Speaker 4>bring out good in you, It can teach you all

1418
01:14:43.960 --> 01:14:47.159
<v Speaker 4>sorts of things. It can you know, be of value,

1419
01:14:47.279 --> 01:14:50.359
<v Speaker 4>even if it's whether it's practicing a very specific skill

1420
01:14:50.399 --> 01:14:54.039
<v Speaker 4>in Rocket League or exploring pill deep and philosophical themes

1421
01:14:54.039 --> 01:14:54.560
<v Speaker 4>in Kotor.

1422
01:14:56.800 --> 01:15:00.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that that emphasis on skill, that's something that you

1423
01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:03.039
<v Speaker 2>know sometimes I hear Elon must talk about, which I mean,

1424
01:15:03.079 --> 01:15:06.680
<v Speaker 2>he's not my number one philosopher, but you know, he

1425
01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:09.880
<v Speaker 2>talks about how that kind of hyper focus can help

1426
01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:11.600
<v Speaker 2>you to one thing, kind of reset your mind and

1427
01:15:11.680 --> 01:15:14.399
<v Speaker 2>separating out other things in life. You know, take that

1428
01:15:14.399 --> 01:15:16.039
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of a break. But also it just

1429
01:15:16.520 --> 01:15:19.560
<v Speaker 2>trains your mind to hyper focus, and that itself is

1430
01:15:19.760 --> 01:15:25.880
<v Speaker 2>a good exercise from time to time. Uh, Josh, tell us,

1431
01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:28.319
<v Speaker 2>what's what's your most played game?

1432
01:15:28.359 --> 01:15:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Do you think.

1433
01:15:30.920 --> 01:15:33.880
<v Speaker 5>Most played game of all time or on Steam.

1434
01:15:34.600 --> 01:15:35.880
<v Speaker 3>Wherever you want to go with that. I don't know

1435
01:15:35.960 --> 01:15:37.760
<v Speaker 3>all time all time.

1436
01:15:37.960 --> 01:15:40.359
<v Speaker 6>I don't know if I might spend too much time

1437
01:15:40.439 --> 01:15:44.800
<v Speaker 6>thinking about that, So I'm for now because I haven't

1438
01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:46.800
<v Speaker 6>checked this and I've been on Steam in a while,

1439
01:15:46.880 --> 01:15:49.600
<v Speaker 6>to be honest, but I know for sure it's actually

1440
01:15:49.720 --> 01:15:51.399
<v Speaker 6>is like the first Dark Souls.

1441
01:15:51.159 --> 01:15:52.880
<v Speaker 5>Game, because I think I've beaten it like a lot

1442
01:15:52.880 --> 01:15:56.319
<v Speaker 5>of our twelve times. I used to like like quasi

1443
01:15:56.560 --> 01:15:58.960
<v Speaker 5>speed run it, meaning like I could like beat it

1444
01:15:59.039 --> 01:16:01.880
<v Speaker 5>in like maybe like two or three hours. But that

1445
01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:03.880
<v Speaker 5>doesn't make me a speed runner because you know, there's

1446
01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:07.399
<v Speaker 5>like guys that play that game like Naked with like nothing,

1447
01:16:07.439 --> 01:16:10.000
<v Speaker 5>but like a Caveman Club and like they like play

1448
01:16:10.039 --> 01:16:12.520
<v Speaker 5>it with like the guitar Hero controller and still beat

1449
01:16:12.520 --> 01:16:15.359
<v Speaker 5>it in twenty minutes. Like I'm not. I wasn't never

1450
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:18.479
<v Speaker 5>that ridiculous, But I think that that is like my

1451
01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:21.760
<v Speaker 5>most played game, and honestly, like it really was. Yes,

1452
01:16:21.920 --> 01:16:25.359
<v Speaker 5>it was fun, but I wanted to like keep exploring

1453
01:16:25.479 --> 01:16:27.800
<v Speaker 5>that world. It's Dark Soul is one of the world's

1454
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:31.640
<v Speaker 5>called Wardrone, and I wanted to keep exploring Wardrone over

1455
01:16:31.880 --> 01:16:34.239
<v Speaker 5>and over and over and over and over again. And

1456
01:16:34.359 --> 01:16:36.600
<v Speaker 5>that's what kept drawing me back to play. It was

1457
01:16:36.680 --> 01:16:38.680
<v Speaker 5>like a comfort food for a while. It was like

1458
01:16:38.760 --> 01:16:41.560
<v Speaker 5>whenever I was like needed to, like I don't want

1459
01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:43.800
<v Speaker 5>to say relax too much, because you can only relax

1460
01:16:43.840 --> 01:16:45.640
<v Speaker 5>so much playing Dark Souls, but there was like a

1461
01:16:45.720 --> 01:16:48.800
<v Speaker 5>level or like there's something that just feels like it's

1462
01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:52.119
<v Speaker 5>like like going home after like a difficult journey in

1463
01:16:52.199 --> 01:16:54.399
<v Speaker 5>a way to like only go home and go on

1464
01:16:55.039 --> 01:16:58.680
<v Speaker 5>a virtually difficult journey. But there was something really comforting

1465
01:16:58.720 --> 01:17:02.359
<v Speaker 5>about just exploring that world. Even though the world is

1466
01:17:02.439 --> 01:17:07.760
<v Speaker 5>sometimes terrifying, the world is sometimes challenges you to wit

1467
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:11.640
<v Speaker 5>send in a way. But yeah, I just something about

1468
01:17:11.680 --> 01:17:13.479
<v Speaker 5>that game that's always kept bringing me back to it.

1469
01:17:13.680 --> 01:17:15.960
<v Speaker 5>So that's I have, like I think close to one

1470
01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:18.960
<v Speaker 5>hundred hours on that on Steam, so quite a lot.

1471
01:17:21.800 --> 01:17:25.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, as with Sam, despite most of our conversation,

1472
01:17:25.520 --> 01:17:28.760
<v Speaker 2>my number one game is not story driven. It's actually

1473
01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Crusader Kings two by a long run, which that that

1474
01:17:35.039 --> 01:17:36.600
<v Speaker 2>game if you haven't played it as a kind of

1475
01:17:36.640 --> 01:17:39.199
<v Speaker 2>a deep learning curve, but once you get it down, it's.

1476
01:17:39.079 --> 01:17:40.079
<v Speaker 3>Just it's.

1477
01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:44.359
<v Speaker 2>Infinite replay value. I'm not going to tell you how

1478
01:17:44.399 --> 01:17:48.359
<v Speaker 2>many hours I have on it. It's kind of an

1479
01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:50.960
<v Speaker 2>ups number. And then after that, then we get to

1480
01:17:50.960 --> 01:17:54.520
<v Speaker 2>the story driven games and we go to Fallout, Skyrim

1481
01:17:54.920 --> 01:17:57.600
<v Speaker 2>and whatnot. Although five is up there as well.

1482
01:17:58.359 --> 01:18:02.800
<v Speaker 4>Yep, so five is easily my top ten, but again

1483
01:18:02.840 --> 01:18:05.079
<v Speaker 4>there's a there's a story within that game, right, Like

1484
01:18:05.159 --> 01:18:07.199
<v Speaker 4>my wife and I would both play five. We'd be

1485
01:18:07.279 --> 01:18:11.359
<v Speaker 4>playing you know, we're in college, but separate colleges. You know,

1486
01:18:11.479 --> 01:18:14.760
<v Speaker 4>we'd divisive five, you know, our individual games. And we

1487
01:18:14.920 --> 01:18:17.479
<v Speaker 4>get on Skype back when Skype still existed, you know,

1488
01:18:18.319 --> 01:18:19.800
<v Speaker 4>a couple of times a week, and we talk about

1489
01:18:19.800 --> 01:18:22.159
<v Speaker 4>our sip games. We're talking about the story, what wonders

1490
01:18:22.199 --> 01:18:23.880
<v Speaker 4>you building? You know, we go into war with anybody.

1491
01:18:23.920 --> 01:18:27.199
<v Speaker 4>Has anybody you know been been harassing you right as

1492
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:29.640
<v Speaker 4>England and Constant been attempting to trade with you, and

1493
01:18:29.800 --> 01:18:32.239
<v Speaker 4>you have to tell us what the go pound sand like?

1494
01:18:33.640 --> 01:18:35.840
<v Speaker 4>There's I don't know. I love the Yeah, the ability

1495
01:18:35.880 --> 01:18:38.159
<v Speaker 4>to just tell a story with you know, the ability

1496
01:18:38.199 --> 01:18:40.600
<v Speaker 4>of games to tell stories even when they're not telling

1497
01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:41.119
<v Speaker 4>a story.

1498
01:18:43.159 --> 01:18:47.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that's part of the value of subcreation when

1499
01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:50.600
<v Speaker 2>when they give you that room to tell your own story,

1500
01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:53.720
<v Speaker 2>to participate, you know, that's why you know. Tolkien says

1501
01:18:53.760 --> 01:18:57.239
<v Speaker 2>that one benefit of literature over movies is that you

1502
01:18:57.479 --> 01:19:00.239
<v Speaker 2>have to visualize things in your own mind. And to

1503
01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:04.079
<v Speaker 2>that extent, every reader has a somewhat of a different

1504
01:19:04.119 --> 01:19:07.960
<v Speaker 2>story based off what their experience, other things they've read,

1505
01:19:08.079 --> 01:19:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the various things that go into forming your mental images

1506
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:14.199
<v Speaker 2>of what's playing out. That you participate in the act

1507
01:19:14.239 --> 01:19:16.920
<v Speaker 2>of subcreation as a reader versus a movie where you're

1508
01:19:16.960 --> 01:19:19.680
<v Speaker 2>just watching something play out. I think a similar case

1509
01:19:19.760 --> 01:19:22.319
<v Speaker 2>could be made for video games, at least for a

1510
01:19:22.439 --> 01:19:25.479
<v Speaker 2>large number of video games. When you play a role

1511
01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:29.279
<v Speaker 2>in creating what the story is. I mean, yes, you're

1512
01:19:29.279 --> 01:19:32.760
<v Speaker 2>operating within certain parameters, but you are also operating in

1513
01:19:32.760 --> 01:19:34.720
<v Speaker 2>certain parameters. When you read a book, you're dealing with

1514
01:19:34.800 --> 01:19:37.359
<v Speaker 2>the texas given to you, and so I think that

1515
01:19:37.479 --> 01:19:39.399
<v Speaker 2>that case very easily could be made.

1516
01:19:40.520 --> 01:19:43.479
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean really, it applies more to less to

1517
01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:46.199
<v Speaker 4>story driven games than it is to a lot of others,

1518
01:19:46.479 --> 01:19:48.119
<v Speaker 4>because most of games, like the God of War games

1519
01:19:48.119 --> 01:19:52.439
<v Speaker 4>that I'm thinking of specifically, they are largely movies, right

1520
01:19:52.479 --> 01:19:54.239
<v Speaker 4>where there's a lot of gameplay, but then there's a

1521
01:19:54.319 --> 01:19:56.239
<v Speaker 4>cutscene right in this kind of this long cut scene.

1522
01:19:56.279 --> 01:19:59.039
<v Speaker 4>Something like kotor Is, which is still very storag driven,

1523
01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:01.840
<v Speaker 4>is less like that. There much more subcreation available to

1524
01:20:02.159 --> 01:20:04.479
<v Speaker 4>than games which are like, Okay, they're telling you this

1525
01:20:04.600 --> 01:20:08.239
<v Speaker 4>story and you're playing through it. So it kind of

1526
01:20:08.279 --> 01:20:10.680
<v Speaker 4>depends on the game. There's a lot of a lot

1527
01:20:10.720 --> 01:20:14.840
<v Speaker 4>of variation there. But yeah, I think absolutely. I didn't

1528
01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:17.399
<v Speaker 4>I assume that it's from one of Tolkien's letters, because

1529
01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:20.479
<v Speaker 4>most everything that Tolkien says that I haven't already read

1530
01:20:20.640 --> 01:20:23.000
<v Speaker 4>from his letters or I don't remember anyway, I've read

1531
01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:26.880
<v Speaker 4>some of them, but yeah, I hadn't heard that before,

1532
01:20:26.960 --> 01:20:27.720
<v Speaker 4>So that's fascinating.

1533
01:20:28.039 --> 01:20:30.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, he really gets into that in his essay

1534
01:20:30.479 --> 01:20:31.279
<v Speaker 3>on fairy stories.

1535
01:20:31.720 --> 01:20:35.439
<v Speaker 4>That's fair stories, Okay, yeah, something I've read hearts of

1536
01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:37.239
<v Speaker 4>I don't think I ever sat down read the whole thing.

1537
01:20:37.920 --> 01:20:38.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's definitely worthwhile.

1538
01:20:39.119 --> 01:20:42.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he has a lot of literary references that

1539
01:20:42.720 --> 01:20:44.960
<v Speaker 2>most people, myself included, like, I don't follow all of

1540
01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:48.960
<v Speaker 2>his references that he makes, not yet, but as far

1541
01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:51.720
<v Speaker 2>as the basic idea he's laying out there, it's really

1542
01:20:51.760 --> 01:20:54.319
<v Speaker 2>foundational to the way that I engage with stories in

1543
01:20:54.600 --> 01:21:01.319
<v Speaker 2>any format. So it definitely would recommend that to anybody listening. Yeah,

1544
01:21:01.399 --> 01:21:04.039
<v Speaker 2>so I feel like we covered good ground that the

1545
01:21:04.079 --> 01:21:06.039
<v Speaker 2>basics of what I wanted to discuss. I mean, is

1546
01:21:06.039 --> 01:21:08.600
<v Speaker 2>there is there anything that Josh or Sam you feel

1547
01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:11.800
<v Speaker 2>like should be brought to this that hasn't already It's

1548
01:21:11.800 --> 01:21:12.880
<v Speaker 2>a gay if not, But I don't want to cut

1549
01:21:12.920 --> 01:21:13.479
<v Speaker 2>off any thoughts.

1550
01:21:14.880 --> 01:21:15.640
<v Speaker 4>Hmm, I don't think so.

1551
01:21:17.840 --> 01:21:19.800
<v Speaker 5>I was kind of curious and maybe we've already touched

1552
01:21:19.840 --> 01:21:23.600
<v Speaker 5>on this enough, so let me know. But like the

1553
01:21:23.720 --> 01:21:26.960
<v Speaker 5>idea of like games that and like, I guess we

1554
01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:28.720
<v Speaker 5>did kind of talk about this with Stark Souls, but

1555
01:21:28.840 --> 01:21:33.039
<v Speaker 5>games that like don't have like an explicit uh an

1556
01:21:33.079 --> 01:21:36.960
<v Speaker 5>explicit like narrative, but almost like tells its meaning through

1557
01:21:37.199 --> 01:21:40.319
<v Speaker 5>like simple and aesthetics, if that makes sense. So I

1558
01:21:40.399 --> 01:21:44.560
<v Speaker 5>think like something like something like Legends of Selada might

1559
01:21:44.680 --> 01:21:46.840
<v Speaker 5>like fit into that category more where I guess like

1560
01:21:46.880 --> 01:21:50.399
<v Speaker 5>there is like an explicit story, but sometimes there's there's

1561
01:21:50.479 --> 01:21:53.319
<v Speaker 5>more beyond the story, or sometimes it's just the story

1562
01:21:53.399 --> 01:21:56.880
<v Speaker 5>is really basic, but there's more within the world. And

1563
01:21:57.319 --> 01:21:59.439
<v Speaker 5>one game I wanted to bring up in that regard

1564
01:21:59.479 --> 01:22:02.159
<v Speaker 5>in case anybody else's point is I was curious of

1565
01:22:02.159 --> 01:22:07.600
<v Speaker 5>a pointed shadow of the Colossus and if not, I'll

1566
01:22:08.079 --> 01:22:10.039
<v Speaker 5>like look that game up later. First of all, but

1567
01:22:10.079 --> 01:22:11.920
<v Speaker 5>that's a game where there's this it's kind of just

1568
01:22:12.039 --> 01:22:15.359
<v Speaker 5>symbol like you're this, you're this boy, and you you

1569
01:22:15.560 --> 01:22:17.840
<v Speaker 5>arrive at like this temple on a horse and basically

1570
01:22:17.920 --> 01:22:19.640
<v Speaker 5>had to beat these I think it's like I don't

1571
01:22:19.640 --> 01:22:21.479
<v Speaker 5>even remember how many coloss side there are.

1572
01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:23.880
<v Speaker 4>I think there's six. It's it's funny you mentioned it

1573
01:22:23.920 --> 01:22:25.920
<v Speaker 4>because they just picked that game like I had it

1574
01:22:26.000 --> 01:22:29.840
<v Speaker 4>forever and I started playing it. I needed to like

1575
01:22:29.960 --> 01:22:31.479
<v Speaker 4>lie down on the couch because I'm dealing with like

1576
01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:34.359
<v Speaker 4>an injury, but I was lying on the couch with

1577
01:22:34.439 --> 01:22:36.000
<v Speaker 4>like hey, kids, like we're gonna we're gonna play this

1578
01:22:36.119 --> 01:22:37.960
<v Speaker 4>for a little bit. We don't do that very much,

1579
01:22:38.039 --> 01:22:40.199
<v Speaker 4>but I was like so, and they got all sorts

1580
01:22:40.199 --> 01:22:42.319
<v Speaker 4>of questions, so I literally just like beat like the

1581
01:22:42.399 --> 01:22:44.000
<v Speaker 4>first colossus just the other day.

1582
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:49.760
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, continue, oh no, for sure, that's that's super

1583
01:22:49.800 --> 01:22:52.479
<v Speaker 5>cool and coincidental to hear. But yeah, so there's like

1584
01:22:52.680 --> 01:22:55.399
<v Speaker 5>basically these sixteen coloss side and it's like your character

1585
01:22:55.520 --> 01:22:57.960
<v Speaker 5>is like this, it's kind of like your typical like

1586
01:22:58.079 --> 01:23:00.600
<v Speaker 5>you know, twelve year old boy with a sword in

1587
01:23:00.640 --> 01:23:03.720
<v Speaker 5>a fantasy setting and he's got he's got this horse,

1588
01:23:03.760 --> 01:23:07.800
<v Speaker 5>which is sometimes incorporated into the combat, sometimes more, sometimes less,

1589
01:23:08.520 --> 01:23:11.359
<v Speaker 5>but like you just you're just dropped off on this

1590
01:23:11.520 --> 01:23:14.439
<v Speaker 5>huge plane and you find the next colossus by like

1591
01:23:14.800 --> 01:23:16.880
<v Speaker 5>he holds his sword up to like the sun and

1592
01:23:17.119 --> 01:23:19.800
<v Speaker 5>like it points a beam of light towards just the

1593
01:23:19.960 --> 01:23:22.720
<v Speaker 5>general direction you have to go. And that's that's it.

1594
01:23:22.920 --> 01:23:25.680
<v Speaker 5>Like that's the entire game is just hunting down the

1595
01:23:25.800 --> 01:23:30.079
<v Speaker 5>sixth Colossi. They all represent different different like mythical beasts,

1596
01:23:30.119 --> 01:23:35.279
<v Speaker 5>and therefore it you have different ways to basically attack

1597
01:23:35.399 --> 01:23:37.000
<v Speaker 5>them like that. They're all like kind of they're kind

1598
01:23:37.039 --> 01:23:40.199
<v Speaker 5>of like a giant humanoid boss puzzle in a sense.

1599
01:23:41.960 --> 01:23:45.319
<v Speaker 5>But it's it's just a really fascinating game, and it's

1600
01:23:45.399 --> 01:23:49.119
<v Speaker 5>so unbelievably unique, but it kind of like ties in

1601
01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:50.920
<v Speaker 5>with that concept I'm trying to get at here. It's like,

1602
01:23:50.960 --> 01:23:53.720
<v Speaker 5>there's not like some explicitly deep store. It's not like

1603
01:23:54.439 --> 01:23:56.600
<v Speaker 5>it's not fall Out New Vegas where you can spend

1604
01:23:56.640 --> 01:23:59.880
<v Speaker 5>like dozens of hours just walking around, you know, the

1605
01:24:00.079 --> 01:24:02.800
<v Speaker 5>desert of Hilas Vegas talking to different people. Right, It's

1606
01:24:02.840 --> 01:24:05.279
<v Speaker 5>not you don't really talk to anybody the entire game,

1607
01:24:05.359 --> 01:24:09.039
<v Speaker 5>but somehow there's a story being told there through like

1608
01:24:09.159 --> 01:24:12.640
<v Speaker 5>the substance of the world versus you know, the mouths

1609
01:24:12.680 --> 01:24:14.920
<v Speaker 5>of the characters in this sense. And I feel like

1610
01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:17.239
<v Speaker 5>that's like a there's like a category of gaming that

1611
01:24:17.640 --> 01:24:21.199
<v Speaker 5>that that is that is that too. That's sometimes not

1612
01:24:21.319 --> 01:24:24.079
<v Speaker 5>talked about, but it can be even overlooked because sometimes

1613
01:24:24.159 --> 01:24:26.560
<v Speaker 5>it can be seen as or that game was dumb

1614
01:24:26.640 --> 01:24:28.479
<v Speaker 5>or something because it didn't have like a story, like

1615
01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:30.520
<v Speaker 5>what's the point it's like, but there was there was

1616
01:24:30.640 --> 01:24:33.279
<v Speaker 5>something there, and I think sometimes people just it's over

1617
01:24:33.359 --> 01:24:34.199
<v Speaker 5>their head. They miss it.

1618
01:24:35.119 --> 01:24:39.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, games have the advantage of that. Most movies, you know,

1619
01:24:39.319 --> 01:24:43.359
<v Speaker 4>TV shows will not of environmental storytelling, right, so they

1620
01:24:43.800 --> 01:24:46.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, developers good ones anyway will often you know,

1621
01:24:47.079 --> 01:24:50.800
<v Speaker 4>place objects in the world that tell a story that

1622
01:24:50.960 --> 01:24:54.359
<v Speaker 4>if you will care enough, you will find and notice them.

1623
01:24:55.520 --> 01:24:58.359
<v Speaker 4>The example that comes to mind the thing of when

1624
01:24:58.359 --> 01:25:00.800
<v Speaker 4>it comes to environmental storytelling is a game called Prey

1625
01:25:01.760 --> 01:25:06.479
<v Speaker 4>p R E Y that came out twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen,

1626
01:25:06.520 --> 01:25:09.159
<v Speaker 4>I think, and it very much has a story. It

1627
01:25:09.199 --> 01:25:12.920
<v Speaker 4>has a narrative set into spaceship or space station, you know,

1628
01:25:13.079 --> 01:25:15.880
<v Speaker 4>the not too distant future that you know it gets

1629
01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:23.359
<v Speaker 4>infected by an alien parasite essentially, but it has a

1630
01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:26.479
<v Speaker 4>lot of environmental storytelling, right, so, whether it's notes that

1631
01:25:26.560 --> 01:25:29.079
<v Speaker 4>are left around or even just like I think I've

1632
01:25:29.079 --> 01:25:31.920
<v Speaker 4>seen I remember seeing this in a video like someone's

1633
01:25:32.000 --> 01:25:34.319
<v Speaker 4>like baseball glove and pizza that are sitting out and

1634
01:25:34.399 --> 01:25:37.159
<v Speaker 4>kind of like you know stowed away spot where you

1635
01:25:37.199 --> 01:25:40.000
<v Speaker 4>can learn about you know, other characters for mostly all

1636
01:25:40.079 --> 01:25:43.119
<v Speaker 4>that anyway at this point just by you know, walking

1637
01:25:43.119 --> 01:25:45.119
<v Speaker 4>around and observing the world. And that's you know that

1638
01:25:45.199 --> 01:25:47.079
<v Speaker 4>you could apply the same sort of thing to you know,

1639
01:25:47.439 --> 01:25:49.479
<v Speaker 4>Breath of the Wild, where you you're going to learn

1640
01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:53.319
<v Speaker 4>about the history of the world just by observing, by

1641
01:25:53.920 --> 01:25:56.880
<v Speaker 4>walking around exploring, whether it's you know, just looking at

1642
01:25:56.880 --> 01:25:58.720
<v Speaker 4>every nook and grit that you can possibly find, or

1643
01:25:58.760 --> 01:26:01.520
<v Speaker 4>talking to every NPC and that you know, exhausting every

1644
01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:06.760
<v Speaker 4>possible dialogue tree, and yeah, that you know that is

1645
01:26:06.840 --> 01:26:10.119
<v Speaker 4>really cool. Where it's just the games really take in

1646
01:26:10.399 --> 01:26:13.239
<v Speaker 4>And this supplies to to think, to games more than

1647
01:26:14.399 --> 01:26:18.119
<v Speaker 4>most media, but to all media, because intentionality matters. Like

1648
01:26:18.199 --> 01:26:20.880
<v Speaker 4>we said at the beginning, but you really do get

1649
01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:22.760
<v Speaker 4>in what you put out, or get you really get

1650
01:26:22.760 --> 01:26:26.560
<v Speaker 4>out what you put in, and to an extreme extent

1651
01:26:26.680 --> 01:26:29.520
<v Speaker 4>where yeah, you can last through you know, the main

1652
01:26:29.920 --> 01:26:32.319
<v Speaker 4>quest of Skyrim, which everyone told me not to do

1653
01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:34.800
<v Speaker 4>when I tweeted that it was my first time playing

1654
01:26:34.840 --> 01:26:37.319
<v Speaker 4>and asking for advice like don't play them in question, Okay,

1655
01:26:37.359 --> 01:26:43.319
<v Speaker 4>I got it. Yeah, So it's just explore right experience.

1656
01:26:44.399 --> 01:26:46.560
<v Speaker 4>That's something that games can do that you know, other

1657
01:26:46.880 --> 01:26:48.479
<v Speaker 4>media can't really.

1658
01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that is for so long what has kept

1659
01:26:53.640 --> 01:26:57.039
<v Speaker 2>me with the Bethesda titles, with Elder Scrolls, with the

1660
01:26:57.119 --> 01:26:59.520
<v Speaker 2>fallout that you.

1661
01:27:01.560 --> 01:27:01.600
<v Speaker 3>It.

1662
01:27:02.159 --> 01:27:04.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it's kind of a you know, running

1663
01:27:04.399 --> 01:27:08.479
<v Speaker 2>joke that the main storyline is the side story, like

1664
01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:10.680
<v Speaker 2>it's it's the last thing you want to do after

1665
01:27:10.800 --> 01:27:14.039
<v Speaker 2>you you do everything else because the purpose of the

1666
01:27:14.079 --> 01:27:16.520
<v Speaker 2>games is not really the story per se. I mean,

1667
01:27:16.600 --> 01:27:18.800
<v Speaker 2>I think that the stories have some value, especially when

1668
01:27:18.800 --> 01:27:22.800
<v Speaker 2>you go back to morrowind and Oblivion. I mean, Skyrim's

1669
01:27:23.359 --> 01:27:25.960
<v Speaker 2>has a good central story too, but it's it's very simple.

1670
01:27:27.159 --> 01:27:29.520
<v Speaker 2>But the real purpose of the game, the value of

1671
01:27:29.560 --> 01:27:33.000
<v Speaker 2>the game is in the exploration, the engagement, in the

1672
01:27:33.079 --> 01:27:36.079
<v Speaker 2>subcreation of determining like what kind of role are you

1673
01:27:36.159 --> 01:27:39.119
<v Speaker 2>going to play in this world? And I think that's

1674
01:27:39.119 --> 01:27:41.680
<v Speaker 2>what gives something like Skyrims so much replay value, and

1675
01:27:41.800 --> 01:27:44.560
<v Speaker 2>that yeah, even though you're you're doing the same stuff

1676
01:27:44.560 --> 01:27:47.760
<v Speaker 2>eventually if you've played enough times, but you do it

1677
01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:50.479
<v Speaker 2>with your own sort of headcanon on who you are

1678
01:27:50.680 --> 01:27:52.479
<v Speaker 2>and what you're doing in the in this world, how

1679
01:27:52.520 --> 01:27:56.600
<v Speaker 2>you're engaging, And you know, Josha talking about that like

1680
01:27:56.800 --> 01:28:01.279
<v Speaker 2>dynamic storytelling of just the nonverbal cues and whatnot, the

1681
01:28:01.359 --> 01:28:03.640
<v Speaker 2>symbolism of the aesthetics. And I feel like even in

1682
01:28:03.760 --> 01:28:07.720
<v Speaker 2>these these Bethesta titles, you get a lot of that

1683
01:28:07.760 --> 01:28:10.359
<v Speaker 2>when you're just wandering around and you discover like the

1684
01:28:10.439 --> 01:28:13.600
<v Speaker 2>way like you'll come across like a corpse. That's that's

1685
01:28:13.640 --> 01:28:16.239
<v Speaker 2>in a certain way with other environmental cues as to

1686
01:28:16.479 --> 01:28:19.319
<v Speaker 2>what happened here, you know, follow Out I think does

1687
01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:21.319
<v Speaker 2>this very well with the way that you know, some

1688
01:28:21.399 --> 01:28:24.039
<v Speaker 2>of some of the settings laid out, and it's just

1689
01:28:24.439 --> 01:28:30.039
<v Speaker 2>it becomes this immersive, mysterious enchanting aesthetic, or I guess

1690
01:28:30.039 --> 01:28:34.239
<v Speaker 2>for Fallout kind of disenchanting is more of the point. Yeah,

1691
01:28:34.279 --> 01:28:37.720
<v Speaker 2>and so I think it's it's a good point. Well,

1692
01:28:37.920 --> 01:28:39.199
<v Speaker 2>we've been run for like an hour and a half.

1693
01:28:39.239 --> 01:28:41.359
<v Speaker 2>We could, as said, easily go all night just talking

1694
01:28:41.359 --> 01:28:45.359
<v Speaker 2>about different things, but I think we'll go ahead and

1695
01:28:45.600 --> 01:28:47.840
<v Speaker 2>wrap it there for now, and maybe if we want

1696
01:28:47.840 --> 01:28:49.399
<v Speaker 2>to at some point in the future we could hit

1697
01:28:49.479 --> 01:28:53.680
<v Speaker 2>up some more things. But I appreciate you Sam and

1698
01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:58.119
<v Speaker 2>Josh coming on, and I'm sure that we will talk

1699
01:28:58.159 --> 01:28:59.279
<v Speaker 2>again about something or another.

1700
01:29:00.119 --> 01:29:01.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, thank you so much for having me on, Andrew.

1701
01:29:01.760 --> 01:29:03.920
<v Speaker 4>We appreciate it. This is this is a great conversation.

1702
01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:04.520
<v Speaker 4>I enjoyed this.

1703
01:29:09.039 --> 01:29:10.640
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for watching and thank you for listening.

1704
01:29:10.680 --> 01:29:12.720
<v Speaker 2>If you're going through the podcast, I'm glad that you

1705
01:29:12.800 --> 01:29:14.640
<v Speaker 2>were able to join us for this conversation, and I

1706
01:29:14.720 --> 01:29:16.079
<v Speaker 2>hope that you'll be able to partake in some of

1707
01:29:16.119 --> 01:29:18.560
<v Speaker 2>the upcoming conversations. I hope that you'll be able to

1708
01:29:19.159 --> 01:29:21.479
<v Speaker 2>engage in the various things that the Mythic Mind Fellowship

1709
01:29:21.520 --> 01:29:23.840
<v Speaker 2>has to offer in the various directions that we're going.

1710
01:29:24.319 --> 01:29:26.920
<v Speaker 2>And so again, that's patreon dot com slash Mythic Mind

1711
01:29:27.239 --> 01:29:29.520
<v Speaker 2>and sign on a Tier three annual membership to get

1712
01:29:29.560 --> 01:29:32.880
<v Speaker 2>access to everything. But that's it for now until next time,

1713
01:29:33.279 --> 01:29:44.560
<v Speaker 2>God Speak. The music for this episode is owned by Bethesta.

1714
01:29:44.920 --> 01:29:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Please don't sue me. I don't play many video games

1715
01:29:57.960 --> 01:30:00.319
<v Speaker 2>these days, but there are certain titles that have stuck

1716
01:30:00.399 --> 01:30:02.920
<v Speaker 2>with me, enchanting the mind of my youth and never

1717
01:30:03.199 --> 01:30:06.319
<v Speaker 2>entirely fading away. One of the chiefs among these titles

1718
01:30:06.520 --> 01:30:10.840
<v Speaker 2>is the Elder Scrolls, namely Marwin, Oblivion and Skyrim. The

1719
01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:14.479
<v Speaker 2>level of artistry, mythology, and lore of this universe is

1720
01:30:14.600 --> 01:30:17.640
<v Speaker 2>vast and provides a strong representative for asking the question

1721
01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:20.840
<v Speaker 2>as to how video games might relate to literature as

1722
01:30:20.880 --> 01:30:23.720
<v Speaker 2>an art form. Where might it rise to such a level,

1723
01:30:24.119 --> 01:30:27.279
<v Speaker 2>where must it fall short? And what unique advantages does

1724
01:30:27.319 --> 01:30:30.199
<v Speaker 2>it possess. For this eight week study, we'll be seeking

1725
01:30:30.239 --> 01:30:33.880
<v Speaker 2>to answer these questions while analyzing various elements of this franchise,

1726
01:30:34.079 --> 01:30:37.319
<v Speaker 2>specifically focusing on content related to Morow and Oblivion and

1727
01:30:37.479 --> 01:30:40.359
<v Speaker 2>Skyrim will be taking a look at the philosophy of

1728
01:30:40.520 --> 01:30:44.880
<v Speaker 2>RPGs and considering the philosophical implications of character creation and

1729
01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:47.920
<v Speaker 2>formation in an open ended series such as this, and

1730
01:30:48.039 --> 01:30:51.680
<v Speaker 2>will be looking at the relationship between in game religion, lore,

1731
01:30:51.760 --> 01:30:55.920
<v Speaker 2>and ideas with our primary world philosophical and religious concepts.

1732
01:30:56.359 --> 01:30:59.319
<v Speaker 2>Each week will include one to two videos addressing these topics,

1733
01:30:59.640 --> 01:31:03.560
<v Speaker 2>ongoing discord conversations, and live meetings. You are also encouraged

1734
01:31:03.560 --> 01:31:05.479
<v Speaker 2>to spend at least a little time playing one of

1735
01:31:05.520 --> 01:31:08.479
<v Speaker 2>these titles each week as a launching pad for conversation.

1736
01:31:09.680 --> 01:31:12.199
<v Speaker 2>Join us in Tamreil that we might better understand our

1737
01:31:12.279 --> 01:31:15.399
<v Speaker 2>primary life here on Monday's. Enrolled today by going to

1738
01:31:15.520 --> 01:31:18.479
<v Speaker 2>patreon dot com slash Mythic Mind and checking out the shop,

1739
01:31:19.159 --> 01:31:22.439
<v Speaker 2>or you can access all courses past present, and any

1740
01:31:22.520 --> 01:31:25.960
<v Speaker 2>that begin during your subscription period if you purchase a

1741
01:31:26.119 --> 01:31:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Tier three annual subscription. Get that Tier three annual subscription

1742
01:31:30.319 --> 01:31:32.199
<v Speaker 2>and I'll give you that special code for your all

1743
01:31:32.319 --> 01:31:34.439
<v Speaker 2>access pass. I hope to see you there.