Speaker 1: Special Operations, Cobert Espionage. The Team House with your hosts
Speaker 1: Jack Murphy and David Park.
Speaker 2: Welcome to episode three hundred and fifty three of The
Speaker 2: Team House. I'm Jack here with Dave and our guest
Speaker 2: on tonight's show is Jack McFarland. Jack spent thirty two
Speaker 2: years with the Drug Enforcement Agency, working his way up
Speaker 2: through the ranks with assignments in the Caribbean Division, working
Speaker 2: a lot in Philadelphia instructor positions and Quantico, worked undercover operations,
Speaker 2: gotten in numerous gunfights, all kinds of interesting interagency operations
Speaker 2: that he conducted or was a part of, and even
Speaker 2: managed to get himself an internal affairs investigation because of
Speaker 2: a TSAA drink.
Speaker 3: That came a hard time.
Speaker 2: So there's plenty to talk about here today, and Jack,
Speaker 2: thank you for joining us on the show.
Speaker 3: Gentlemen, Jack and Dave, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
Speaker 2: So, you know, the mandatory first question we asked about
Speaker 2: the guest's origin story, If you tell us a bit
Speaker 2: about like kind of your upbringing, how you grew up,
Speaker 2: and how that eventually took you towards law enforcement.
Speaker 4: Sure, I was born and raised just north of Allentown,
Speaker 4: Pennsylvania Coal Regions Cole Cracker And basically I got into
Speaker 4: teaching and football coaching when I came out of college,
Speaker 4: and then I wanted to get into federal law enforcement.
Speaker 3: God applied to the FBI. I applied to the DEA
Speaker 3: and believed or not.
Speaker 4: Back in nineteen eighty seven on a ring was president
Speaker 4: DA came a call, and so I chose I got
Speaker 4: into a DEA and I never looked back.
Speaker 3: After thirty two years.
Speaker 2: And I mean nineteen eighty seven, what was the DEA
Speaker 2: up to at that time? Like what was it sort
Speaker 2: of like going through your training and I imagine and
Speaker 2: some of your instructors were probably Vietnam veterans during that time.
Speaker 4: We had a remember now DEA came on board in
Speaker 4: the July one and nineteen seventy nine, and so we
Speaker 4: have probably only had that particular time at about twenty
Speaker 4: five hundred special agents. Now since around the late nineties
Speaker 4: we were up at wards around that fifty five hundred
Speaker 4: mark or worldwide personnel. So most of the instructing we
Speaker 4: were not as lengthy. The academy was not as lengthy
Speaker 4: academy these days, I think since the nineties have been
Speaker 4: like seventeen weeks. We were more like I think fourteen
Speaker 4: weeks trained. Well, no one's trains are better than Uncle Sam.
Speaker 4: You two guys, I'm sure you know that you've been
Speaker 4: part of it, and they don't. They don't mind spending
Speaker 4: the money on training, and that's what they did for
Speaker 4: us and I do. I do have to say probably
Speaker 4: the one of the rigorous, most rigorous I've been through.
Speaker 4: I've been to college football camps in high school football camps,
Speaker 4: and DEA came after us absolutely.
Speaker 3: To train us.
Speaker 5: I remember, like you know, in the nineties, uh, the
Speaker 5: DEA was looked at like as sort of the I
Speaker 5: don't want to say cowboys as in wild but but
Speaker 5: they were the guys who like went out in dishit
Speaker 5: like compared to other federal agencies. And weren't they the
Speaker 5: last federal agency law enforcement that like didn't require a
Speaker 5: college degree?
Speaker 3: Or is that not true? Like I'm trying to remember, no,
Speaker 3: no DA for your degree?
Speaker 4: They always okay, masters agreed better if you have it, okay,
Speaker 4: because we'll that'll do for you. Dave, does that will
Speaker 4: allow you to come back then either be a GS
Speaker 4: seven like me coming on board as DS seven or
Speaker 4: GS nine coming on board if you had that master's
Speaker 4: or jd degree. Okay, so unlike the Bureau, they were
Speaker 4: elevens coming on board, I see.
Speaker 3: And was the Caribbean Division your first assignment, no believe
Speaker 3: it or not.
Speaker 4: At the academy, when you go through Quantico, you get
Speaker 4: hired on. You go through Quantico and you get fourteen
Speaker 4: weeks of training and any your assignment. And my assignment
Speaker 4: was the Philadelphia Field Divisional office. But I hired through
Speaker 4: the Allentown resident office that was closest to my house
Speaker 4: where I grew up, so I went there when I
Speaker 4: came out of Quantico. Successfully, they ended up sending you
Speaker 4: back to your office of hires called So when I
Speaker 4: went back to my office of hire, which was Allentown,
Speaker 4: it was a small office, you know, you work a
Speaker 4: lot with the different estate, the local guys, and I
Speaker 4: spent about a year there. But my knowing that I
Speaker 4: was supposed to go to Philadelphia as my assignment out
Speaker 4: of the academy. So after one year was finally okay,
Speaker 4: got to go to Philadelphia. And that's when I went
Speaker 4: to the Philadelphia Division. I entered into Group three and
Speaker 4: Jack back then Group three different in Philadelphia. We had
Speaker 4: a number of fourth groups and each group had different designees.
Speaker 4: Like we were basically coke. Remember this word crack cocaine
Speaker 4: and marijuana. Well, we went after crack cocaine in a
Speaker 4: heavy way in Philadelphia in the late eighties.
Speaker 3: And that was the height. That's the height of it.
Speaker 4: Other groups had a heroin meth and different groups of
Speaker 4: different other design needs. So the Philadelphia, Allentown in the
Speaker 4: Philly and I did eight years in Philadelphia. Loved every
Speaker 4: minute of them. I got my grades in Philadelphia. I
Speaker 4: met some great people. My my partner, Frank, who I
Speaker 4: won't you know, he's just an amazing guy.
Speaker 3: He was a former New York cop.
Speaker 4: New York City Copper detective, and he taught me the ropes.
Speaker 4: He taught me the ropes and as well as an
Speaker 4: older gentleman named Bill God rest his soul, he passed away.
Speaker 4: But I am sixty two, so it's you know, I
Speaker 4: remember when I was twenty four and these guys were
Speaker 4: thirty eight.
Speaker 3: I thought, oh my.
Speaker 4: God, to work with these old guys, you know, what
Speaker 4: are they gonna what are you gonna teach me?
Speaker 3: You know? So it was quite It was quite interesting.
Speaker 3: It's quite interesting.
Speaker 2: And when you were in Allentown and Philadelphia, that was
Speaker 2: when you got into a couple of shootouts.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, I've I've been. I got up in Allentown
Speaker 3: and Allentown.
Speaker 4: Kind of, I won't say funny when any time it's
Speaker 4: a browned weapons are discharged, it's not really funny. But
Speaker 4: you know, Jack and Dave, we were in this parking lot.
Speaker 4: It was a it was a Pennsylvania State Police case,
Speaker 4: and the trooper did something he shouldn't have done and
Speaker 4: he went from being an undercover to basically being an
Speaker 4: interesting agent. Well, the bad guy didn't think it was funny,
Speaker 4: so he takes off and the guy there's a trooper
Speaker 4: hanging on the car. He let's a round go forty
Speaker 4: five into his thigh, with a forty five blue blue
Speaker 4: to guy's thigh out. Well, myself another trooper in an
Speaker 4: old money carl You know those Detroit muscles, money Carlo,
Speaker 4: We come those to those with this pick of this
Speaker 4: sport utility. Well there's the funny part here.
Speaker 3: I am a twenty four year old snot nos.
Speaker 4: I go to kick my door like Miami Vice to
Speaker 4: get out of the car.
Speaker 3: Well, you know those doors and those old.
Speaker 4: Money carlos being sprung back and hit me and sit
Speaker 4: me across the freaking.
Speaker 3: Car looking at me. Go, what what the hell you're doing?
Speaker 3: Get out of the car.
Speaker 4: So guy said, the door knocking. The door knocked me over.
Speaker 4: So I had to get out of the car. My
Speaker 4: tell between my legs, and I infected, you know, he
Speaker 4: cleared the car, infected the arrest in the bag guy,
Speaker 4: he coughed him and I said, this guy's.
Speaker 3: Bleeding and he was pulling blood and he was bleeding.
Speaker 3: So he was shot.
Speaker 4: Yep, tour was okay, though he was okay.
Speaker 3: And then there's another one in Philly with the Jamaicans.
Speaker 3: The Philly one was quite interest me. Now it's a
Speaker 3: little more extensive viout.
Speaker 4: In Philly, we were we were covering a confidential informat
Speaker 4: a confidential source going in and we were doing a
Speaker 4: marijuana case that was part of our responsibilities as marri
Speaker 4: uh positive responsibilities of group threes. And uh So he
Speaker 4: goes inside and they undercover made the confidential informant and
Speaker 4: the two bad guys get in an argument on the
Speaker 4: front lawn. Well, they all pulled freaking weapons and they
Speaker 4: started shooting at each other. Thank God that one one,
Speaker 4: you know this, I'm glad to see us wasn't shot.
Speaker 4: I remember the guy was. He was a funny guy,
Speaker 4: played Jamaican do and he wasn't my guy who was
Speaker 4: on the cover. Guys whatever, And so we and a
Speaker 4: couple of rounds went down range and he hit one
Speaker 4: of one of our guys hit one of the guys,
Speaker 4: and they get into a van.
Speaker 3: So now there's a vehicle.
Speaker 4: We don't like to say the word pursuit, but there's
Speaker 4: a there's a vehicle follow and aggressive vehicle follows.
Speaker 3: We're following this van.
Speaker 4: We're going through the streets of Philadelphia, Northeast Philadelphia, and
Speaker 4: we know where they're going. We're gonna try to get
Speaker 4: on nine ninety five, so we gotta get on nine
Speaker 4: ninety five. They're heading southbound, so we called our base operator,
Speaker 4: and our base operator basically says they'll get the highway
Speaker 4: fill off. How we patrol unit in and they bring
Speaker 4: them a unit in and Dave and Jack one of
Speaker 4: the most impressive things I've ever seen. We're traveling southbound
Speaker 4: on a five lane highway. We see these blue and
Speaker 4: red lights coming behind us, and blue and red lights
Speaker 4: coming at us, and that was there was like about
Speaker 4: three Asian cars we were following. They were they so
Speaker 4: smoothly got the traffic cleared and they pinned in the van.
Speaker 4: And these highway guys now highway coppers in Philadelphia, boots,
Speaker 4: castapo belts, scrunch hats. You don't mess the highway boys
Speaker 4: because they have h's on their cars, you know their
Speaker 4: highway They come out with shotguns. They don't come out
Speaker 4: with the handguns. They came out with shotguns. I didn't
Speaker 4: know what to do, man. They just pined their hands
Speaker 4: against the freaking Winch shield, dragged them out.
Speaker 3: They go to clear the vehicle name and and one
Speaker 3: of remember one of the how we guys saying bomb
Speaker 3: bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb, Like what the what the
Speaker 3: what the what?
Speaker 4: So they had to shut it down, bring a bomb
Speaker 4: squad in and what it was was it was dynamite attached,
Speaker 4: but it was there was no there was no Nation device.
Speaker 4: And I don't know what the guy was trying to do,
Speaker 4: scared to care somebody or whatever. But one was shot,
Speaker 4: the other guy was taking. Two were taken into custody
Speaker 4: and h typical, you know, we had to answer questions
Speaker 4: and I'm here and I have another young guy to go.
Speaker 3: What the hell do I get myself?
Speaker 2: Is it normal to let the confidential informant carry a
Speaker 2: weapon or did they have to?
Speaker 4: Because it's we said the same thing to the controlling
Speaker 4: agent because he was in this house, so we were
Speaker 4: not inside the location and they came out, so we
Speaker 4: did not search the house for any weapons that the
Speaker 4: car on the floor may so you see my plight,
Speaker 4: but he was out of the house, but he sticks
Speaker 4: it in his pants, so he had under the table
Speaker 4: and he's like, I know these guys, these guys.
Speaker 3: Are gonna come and try to They're gonna try to
Speaker 3: muscle me.
Speaker 4: And guess what, He's like, I'm not getting killed in
Speaker 4: my own house here, So that's what we're like, you
Speaker 4: can't do it.
Speaker 3: He was blackballed after that though. He was gone. Yeahne
Speaker 3: was finished. Guy.
Speaker 2: Was what was this about the time that you also
Speaker 2: got you got stuck up and ripped off?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 4: That was?
Speaker 6: That was?
Speaker 3: This is a great one too. This was when I
Speaker 3: was working undercover.
Speaker 4: I was working with a college professor one of our
Speaker 4: offices out in the Western Port West, just western Philadelphia office.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go with West Virginia, okay, and he was
Speaker 4: a college professor and a chemist. But he knew a
Speaker 4: guy from Philadelphia who was dealing in bulk. He was
Speaker 4: dealing in kilos. So we had our office in West
Speaker 4: Virginia said, we can't do any out On's Virginia with
Speaker 4: this guy. It's in Philadelphia's the stores. Let's hand it
Speaker 4: off to Philly. So he hands it off to Philly.
Speaker 4: Group three being cocaine, hands off to me, hands off
Speaker 4: to the group three. Our boss named Rick says, Jack,
Speaker 4: you're up. You want to take this one? I said, sure, okay, great.
Speaker 4: So we meet, we do our thing, you know, we
Speaker 4: get a cover story together. I'm a graduates doing at
Speaker 4: the University of ten in the city and this guy's
Speaker 4: you know, he's a college you know, teaching chemistry and
Speaker 4: all that stuff.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 4: So what happens is we meet first, no problem, We're
Speaker 4: going to do a kilo of cocaine, twenty five thousand
Speaker 4: bucks North Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: I remember Street, so Throt and all of you I
Speaker 3: still remember.
Speaker 4: So we ended up doing okay, twenty five we.
Speaker 3: Agreed upon, no problem.
Speaker 4: A couple of days go by, we put another control,
Speaker 4: you know, another call into the guy.
Speaker 3: Are you ready, I'm ready. Okay, We're ready.
Speaker 4: So we have about fifteen agents on the street, very
Speaker 4: tight locations in the Philadelphia North Philadelphia. This dude was
Speaker 4: believed or not a one of the last pulldouts of
Speaker 4: uh white guy. I mean most of it was all
Speaker 4: Jamaican or Patricans, you name it, but not white. He
Speaker 4: didn't want to move, but he knew all the players
Speaker 4: up there. So we ended up having a situation where
Speaker 4: we roll in back back in the day. We learned
Speaker 4: a lot of lessons about this. Don't bring the money,
Speaker 4: but we brought the money in the trunk of the
Speaker 4: car because all the money was gonna be was going
Speaker 4: to be a showing a side of good faith. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I got the I got the money. Go get your dope.
Speaker 4: Now where's the dope? Where's the kilob Well he comes
Speaker 4: out of the house, I meet, We meet in the
Speaker 4: middle of the street. He goes, give me, give me
Speaker 4: a couple of minutes. I gotta go and get it.
Speaker 4: Like where you're going, He goes, I'm just gonna walk
Speaker 4: around the block. I gotta go get it, like okay.
Speaker 4: So we sat there, idioed up said he's going to
Speaker 4: be on foot. He's going to get the package. So
Speaker 4: we had a team of surveillance team follow him. We
Speaker 4: got the location where it came out, and we went back,
Speaker 4: of course later onto the source one location. He goes
Speaker 4: back in the brown paper bag.
Speaker 3: Have you go, Lucky? Up the street, he goes into
Speaker 3: the house.
Speaker 4: He goes into the house and he comes back out
Speaker 4: of the house and I tell the ces to shit
Speaker 4: in the car. So I go to the trunk of
Speaker 4: the car. When I pull the trunk of the car,
Speaker 4: this guy meets me across the street and he's and
Speaker 4: he's carrying a brown paper bag. So I said, you
Speaker 4: got it? He's yeah, here and he shows me. As
Speaker 4: I show, he goes, now there's where's the money? And
Speaker 4: I'm going to reach for the money in the trunk.
Speaker 4: That's when I oh, I feel the thirty eight snubnolls
Speaker 4: going on my ribs. He goes, he goes, not today, bro,
Speaker 4: give me your fucking money. Excuse me my mouth, give.
Speaker 3: Me your give me your money. I'm like, what do
Speaker 3: I do?
Speaker 4: Jack and Dave, we're trained. Training takes over. I believe
Speaker 4: in training. I love training. Repetition, repetition, repetition, bam. My
Speaker 4: hands went up so fast. Dangerous signal. Dangerous signal. Well,
Speaker 4: let me tell you something. You want to see fifteen
Speaker 4: federal agent flying down a street.
Speaker 3: I'm talking.
Speaker 4: They rolled in there so fast that guy didn't.
Speaker 3: Have a chance.
Speaker 4: He's here. Here's the cars coming in. He sees guys
Speaker 4: feet coming down down the concrete pavement.
Speaker 3: He sees it. He tries to make it for bee
Speaker 3: line for the house.
Speaker 4: Well, in Philadelphia, just like maybe in Brooklyn and the
Speaker 4: Bronx or whatever, you only have some side.
Speaker 3: You have stairs to get inside the house.
Speaker 4: Well, he tries to get in the house, and our
Speaker 4: boys cleaned his clock, the clock. They cleaned his clock.
Speaker 4: Man puffed him up. And here's the funny part. When
Speaker 4: my boss came, grabbed me, got me in the car,
Speaker 4: took me off the location, off the set. The guys
Speaker 4: who were arresting him. It was the end of August
Speaker 4: of ninety one or ninety two. Jack and Dave and
Speaker 4: the and the Eagles were were, uh there were I
Speaker 4: guess William was calling if you're playing the Dolphins in
Speaker 4: preseason And he says to the guys, the resting agents, well,
Speaker 4: I guess I'm not gonna be able to see the
Speaker 4: egos game tonight.
Speaker 3: You're going to see you're looking.
Speaker 4: At fifteen years, been one right now and two and
Speaker 4: then I turned out one killer turned into two kilos.
Speaker 4: So he was going to ten years right there, it's
Speaker 4: over five years I ended up getting. You got to
Speaker 4: get the guy credit. He ate the charge. He didn't,
Speaker 4: he didn't cooperate, and he got he was like ten
Speaker 4: ten fifteen years ago. Well you think he didn't get
Speaker 4: five for prowing a weapon on me? And I thought
Speaker 4: to myself, you know, I'm twenty five years old. Now
Speaker 4: I'm thinking, is this the right thing? I should be
Speaker 4: on the practice field coaching safety and receivers. Right.
Speaker 3: So it wasn't good, but I was I was I
Speaker 3: was fine. I was fine. Hey, guys, it's your pal Jack.
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Speaker 2: readiness with stopbox. So, after running around the wilds of Philadelphia,
Speaker 2: is that when you were assigned to the Caribbean Division.
Speaker 4: Well, what happened was when I'm in Philadelphia, I spent
Speaker 4: eight years a lot of great investigations. Well, one particular
Speaker 4: investigation by May Real real Yeah please, this one. It
Speaker 4: was this was a huge, This was a biggie. We
Speaker 4: had an operation against a couple of Colombians in the
Speaker 4: city and we were utilizing and in the cups from
Speaker 4: customs named Julio, great guy, great customs guy, and and
Speaker 4: we ended up negotiating, or he ended up negotiating for
Speaker 4: one hundred kilo delivery, one hundred keys of coke in Philadelphia.
Speaker 4: And his gal, she was ahead of the organization. I
Speaker 4: won't give me a name, but she said, yeah, we
Speaker 4: can do it. Twenty five twenty was it twenty five?
Speaker 4: We did get my notes to twenty five? Get my
Speaker 4: notes here if I'm correctly, Oh, hang say twenty uh
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five? Key, okay, So yeah, we're looking at
Speaker 4: We're looking at And he wanted in twenty dollar bills.
Speaker 4: Twenty dollar bills, you wanted street money bills. Don't give me,
Speaker 4: don't give me fifties, don't give me a hundreds, give
Speaker 4: me twenties. I went twenties. So we had to go
Speaker 4: to the Federal Reserve. We got to go to the
Speaker 4: Federal Reserve Bank. We got approval. It took a lot
Speaker 4: of effort, but we got approval and we went to
Speaker 4: the Fed bank and we ended up taking out one
Speaker 4: million dollars in cash. Because why you never go on
Speaker 4: the street Jack and Dave with a short package of money.
Speaker 3: You don't do that.
Speaker 4: It's only in the movies you put a you put
Speaker 4: one hundred of pop and the rest of paperwork in between.
Speaker 4: You're gonna do yourself heard for that.
Speaker 3: You can't. You can't. You can't do that stuff. You
Speaker 3: can't do it. So bottom line was, we ended up
Speaker 3: getting a million.
Speaker 7: You know how much a million pounds wighs in twenties,
Speaker 7: A million dollars how much one hundred and twelve to
Speaker 7: one hundred and twelve pounds, one hundred and twelve pounds
Speaker 7: of twenty dollar bills, one hundred and felve free compounds.
Speaker 4: We busted in and we busted into. There was fifty stacks.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: There, there's fifty thousand dollars, fifty thousand bills and basically
Speaker 4: had one hundred stacks.
Speaker 3: We did fifty one bag, fifteen other bag.
Speaker 4: I still remember the guy's doing it and I was
Speaker 4: out in a hook for this. Me and my partner Frank,
Speaker 4: we're on a hook for this money. Like man, we can't.
Speaker 4: We can't lose a twenty dollar bill. So the bottom
Speaker 4: line was, we gave the undercovers the money men, excuse me,
Speaker 4: the money men. Uh, they could play for the event.
Speaker 4: They played for the defensive line for the full of eagles.
Speaker 4: They came in looking really sharp, rolled it in the
Speaker 4: seven to fifty black VMW tinted out, you know, the
Speaker 4: cigars in her mouths and black jackets, and and they
Speaker 4: they sold her. They sold her man and she went
Speaker 4: and got to fifty. She got his fifty. And then
Speaker 4: the other place we hit a little search fore we
Speaker 4: got the other fifty. Successful case. Funny story. We come
Speaker 4: back that next day are sacked. Especial az in the
Speaker 4: shar fam is any he can back to the group?
Speaker 4: His men, great job last night, Great job, he said,
Speaker 4: Mac suggests her. He goes, don't forget get that money
Speaker 4: back to the federal reserve. We're gonna be uitar's interest
Speaker 4: on that. I said, yes, sir, I was worried about
Speaker 4: the freaking interest on the money.
Speaker 3: Do you get back that day? Do you recall how
Speaker 3: much interest the deea got charged?
Speaker 4: I don't Jack. That's a great question. I don't know
Speaker 4: by one of our Madmen officers says, it was pretty extensive.
Speaker 4: So you got in a twenty four period for every
Speaker 4: twenty four hours. Back then, this was like nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 4: maybe ninety three, we did the operation, We did this case,
Speaker 4: and yeah, we had to get that money back. And
Speaker 4: I know what was the best the best billing. Now
Speaker 4: every twenty dollars bill was there, one was missing, one
Speaker 4: was missing. Man, I was not doing a freaking other
Speaker 4: because we couldn't even do account on it.
Speaker 3: We had to get it.
Speaker 4: We had to get an optimization chronological order sheet from
Speaker 4: the Federal Reserve.
Speaker 3: It's just too much money. Yeah, and and we had
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 4: It that way because we had to look like we
Speaker 4: were traffickers oprahs.
Speaker 3: We knew what we were doing. And uh, she bought up.
Speaker 3: She bought it. Man more reserved. When you roll up
Speaker 3: with that in your trunk.
Speaker 4: I mean it's it's and trust me, we probably had
Speaker 4: agent personnel on that street. We had air units, we
Speaker 4: had you know, I don't even give those tracking device
Speaker 4: at that time. We probably put some like a bird
Speaker 4: dog or something in it down the bags just in case.
Speaker 4: We must have had thirty or forty Feds county guys.
Speaker 4: I ascume me state guys. Just that money was going nowhere, man,
Speaker 4: it was going nowhere. So it was it was I
Speaker 4: remember doing it on Sea Line Avenue in Philadelphia, were
Speaker 4: doing the Steed Line Avenue at Tji Fuddy's and.
Speaker 3: It was well. It was well covered, man, well covered.
Speaker 3: A lot of fun. Thank god, no one got hurt.
Speaker 2: Any others who want to talk about from Philly before
Speaker 2: moving on to the next one.
Speaker 3: No, I think we're I think those those uh, I
Speaker 3: think they stand out in my mind. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 3: I gotta get kudos. I'm gonna get the coolers.
Speaker 4: Of the guys and gals that worked Group three in
Speaker 4: Philadelphia from nineteen eighty eight to the nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3: I was there with the people. I got to give
Speaker 3: the kudos. We were such an aggressive group.
Speaker 4: I got cruders to my partner, my my I know
Speaker 4: it's not on an award show, but my my supervisor Rick,
Speaker 4: he would get us. We would come with these crazy
Speaker 4: type of scenarios just between the over to cusp.
Speaker 3: A little bit. You guys knew to you as former Rangers.
Speaker 4: You're kind of like, yeah, we can't do that, but
Speaker 4: we can do this though, you know, it's it's kind
Speaker 4: of fine line until you tripping over yourself. And he
Speaker 4: would get these things approved and man they would work out,
Speaker 4: and man it was. It was fantastic. And what what
Speaker 4: a bunch of good people. What a bunch of good people.
Speaker 4: We were bund anywhere from twelve to twelve to fifteen
Speaker 4: anytime any gunslingers any time in the group twelve to
Speaker 4: fifteen US and we we rock and roll, man, no
Speaker 4: we are Our motto was no state cases in this group,
Speaker 4: federal case, no state case.
Speaker 3: We want to take them all federally. We did, We did. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And what was the next assignment after Philly?
Speaker 4: We went down to Quantico or we were giving the
Speaker 4: opportunity to go to Quantico. Very tough at the time
Speaker 4: to get into Quantico. And I'm gonna be honest with you.
Speaker 4: My my former partner, Frank was tight with the number
Speaker 4: two guy in training named Louke god Rest.
Speaker 3: His so he passed away. He was a great guy
Speaker 3: who was the number two man in training and they.
Speaker 4: Were both the tectives together and so in BC in
Speaker 4: New York and made a phone call and they had
Speaker 4: they had several openings in the gym with the instructors,
Speaker 4: so I was able to get into the gymnasium and
Speaker 4: I encompassed his physical training, defensive tactics, entry training which
Speaker 4: you guys love, you know, bang bang bangman slamm though,
Speaker 4: and then also vehicle containments and any type of wrestled
Speaker 4: and around vehicles.
Speaker 3: So we had four.
Speaker 4: We probably were with the students the most of the
Speaker 4: seventeen weeks, or we call it the tactle unit. Yet
Speaker 4: we have multiple response abilities that we had to We
Speaker 4: had to do everything from defensive tacks, well what's the
Speaker 4: defensive tactic? But we used to teach Cob mcgofighting. We
Speaker 4: had to teach the personal weapons skills fighting. Some people
Speaker 4: never got hit in their lives.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I boxed when I was aged from age twelve, middle eight,
Speaker 4: you know, and all that good stuff. But uh, you
Speaker 4: would see some of these people and you're like, I mean,
Speaker 4: we had a guy break his femur femur in boxing.
Speaker 4: Now you see this, so Jack and Day are like,
Speaker 4: the hell the guy break his femur? Heavyweight bout heavyweight bout,
Speaker 4: two big boys going at it, great guys, great guys.
Speaker 3: Brad and of course I hate to say, mister Viney
Speaker 3: he passed away.
Speaker 4: He got his mister vine and gets his right foot
Speaker 4: caught behind his left foot on the rubber matt and
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden a body shot comes and
Speaker 4: spun him around and you hear.
Speaker 3: This boom busted. I was like, oh, that's crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Dave and and and Jack, I'm telling you it
Speaker 4: sounded like a gunshot. We all fired the twelve gages.
Speaker 4: It sounded like a gunshot going on, and we all
Speaker 4: like what you know, very big eyes, like what just happened?
Speaker 3: And thank god?
Speaker 6: He was good.
Speaker 3: He was fine. I mean, we had to get you
Speaker 3: had to get repaired.
Speaker 4: But we were able to graduate him because boxing is
Speaker 4: like in a week fourteen back in the day, I
Speaker 4: was seventeen weeks.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine going through the training again. No, we
Speaker 3: got him his gun and.
Speaker 4: His badge, and he walked across the stage on his course.
Speaker 3: Who breaks a fever? Much less steam, well yeah, less
Speaker 3: in boxing. Yeah, think about it.
Speaker 4: You think to yourself, how that happened.
Speaker 3: But when he got his foot plot we saw it coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and mister Brad and he probably weighed like what
Speaker 2: two fifty or something like that.
Speaker 4: I would say probably yeah, I'll gi give christer. Vin
Speaker 4: was probably about two fifty, mystery probably about maybe two
Speaker 4: twenty five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And and Brad was you know, one of
Speaker 3: these guys. It was a former ball player, football player
Speaker 3: and good guy. And and that right there.
Speaker 4: It was probably the most tragic event that eyewitnessed in
Speaker 4: the Academy with my five years there as an instructor,
Speaker 4: as an agent instructor, because we have we got people going,
Speaker 4: you know, uh coding, they'd go, you know, CPR, they're
Speaker 4: heart attacking, or you got guys, you know, National Academy
Speaker 4: students in the in the in the locker room, paying
Speaker 4: have heart attacks.
Speaker 3: I have a heart attack in the freaking locker room.
Speaker 4: Because remember, in the academy, you have DA, you have
Speaker 4: the FBI, you have the National Academy students who are
Speaker 4: the National Academy students. They are students that represent local, county, state,
Speaker 4: and international law enforcement agencies. And you got guys are
Speaker 4: coming in and they're like, dude, you got to run
Speaker 4: and you got to do push ups and pt and workout,
Speaker 4: and they're supposed to be cleared, you know, but sometimes
Speaker 4: you don't doesn't make it. You know, like the sixty
Speaker 4: two days you guys endure down there a ranger training.
Speaker 4: You know, you guys are all squared away before.
Speaker 3: You go in a place. If not, you're like, yeah,
Speaker 3: get rid of this guy.
Speaker 2: You said that you really enjoyed your time at Quantico,
Speaker 2: that that was kind of like the most rewarding part
Speaker 2: of your career.
Speaker 3: That's a very good that's a very good question, Jack. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I really did you know why?
Speaker 4: Because we were actually making the next generation of agents and.
Speaker 3: They looked upon you.
Speaker 4: I mean, we had a we had a pat his
Speaker 4: name was He's once again he's passed away as well.
Speaker 3: Patay was a combat vet, Marine vet in the Battle
Speaker 3: of Way. He was in back in the day and
Speaker 3: he was always this you have to be don't smell
Speaker 3: like booze and make sure you're shaped.
Speaker 6: And he was tight man.
Speaker 3: He was tight. He was a big man.
Speaker 4: He played at Lake University of North Carolina for guard
Speaker 4: tackle and Pat ran it ran a tight ship. But
Speaker 4: it was he wanted to exemplify this is the next
Speaker 4: cruel of people, this is the next body of people
Speaker 4: that we wanted to train the right way.
Speaker 3: You have to make sure, are they driven? Are they
Speaker 3: confident it? Can they can they? I mean I sound
Speaker 3: sounds crazy here, but can they can they kill someone?
Speaker 3: Can they do it? That they have the mindset? So
Speaker 3: we had to we had to work those people to
Speaker 3: make sure they can do that. And you know, most
Speaker 3: of my people, you get fifty in a class, we.
Speaker 4: Would probably not lose as much as you guys with
Speaker 4: rangers would lose or get rate. It would lose maybe
Speaker 4: I don't know, two, three, four out of fifty because
Speaker 4: they couldn't shoot, or they couldn't do the pet or
Speaker 4: some reason why. You know, bad attitude, you know, dismissal
Speaker 4: because a bad attitude. But most of the time very
Speaker 4: warning to me. From being a former teacher and a coach,
Speaker 4: I was able to, like, you know, train them that way.
Speaker 4: They used to say, I would repeat myself a thousand times.
Speaker 4: Well that's what I would repeat myself because it's about repetition, repetition.
Speaker 3: Rhythm, rhythm, rhythm, repetition.
Speaker 6: And I still that.
Speaker 4: It's one of the guys. When I didn't see him
Speaker 4: in years and years and years, he was a former
Speaker 4: student of mine and he was down in Los Angeles.
Speaker 4: He got to his first officer of assignment. They got
Speaker 4: involved in the situation where it was a bunch of
Speaker 4: gangsters and they all split up, and him and another
Speaker 4: agent go running after the guy. They get him, and
Speaker 4: all he said is, I can hear you yelling tough,
Speaker 4: double lock, high risk search. Cuff double lock, high risk search.
Speaker 4: And he goes tough, double lock, high risk search.
Speaker 3: How cool is that? Yeah? Right, how cool is that?
Speaker 4: And his name is Mark, and and I said, you know,
Speaker 4: I didn't do it for to hear my own self talk.
Speaker 4: I wanted to do it for you guys, know what
Speaker 4: the heck you're doing. And one of the greatest things
Speaker 4: I'm most proud. Yes, I had a few people that
Speaker 4: that got themselves in a little bit of trick bags
Speaker 4: on the job and they're no longer in the job,
Speaker 4: or they got in trouble. You can't be with them
Speaker 4: twenty fours a day. When they leave, it's just can't be.
Speaker 3: You just can't do it.
Speaker 4: Don't blame yourself. But not one got seriously injured or
Speaker 4: killed on the job.
Speaker 3: That's what I like to hear. Yeah, they're good, they're
Speaker 3: good to.
Speaker 4: Go, right, I mean, I'm sure you have instructed the
Speaker 4: same way would feel the same way. Or if you
Speaker 4: guys ever taught and instructors, you don't want to put
Speaker 4: them in a bad situation.
Speaker 3: Would have break broke my heart if I heard that.
Speaker 4: Such and such guy blah blah blah because he lost
Speaker 4: his weapon during a fight or whatever.
Speaker 3: So we has to fight constantly, you know, the common
Speaker 3: guy on the ground and.
Speaker 4: Fish and elbows and punches and knees and kicks and
Speaker 4: maybe stinky sweaty down the pool decks sweating it out.
Speaker 4: Welcome to da baby, and the Bureau will be up there.
Speaker 4: No disrespect to the Bureau. They'd up there in the
Speaker 4: air conditioned gym doing her thing. I know he had
Speaker 4: Chris Shaw I'm going that. You know his his locker,
Speaker 4: Chris Wickham's locker was literally down a row from my
Speaker 4: locker in the main locker room. And he was He
Speaker 4: was such a quiet guy, such a quiet guy, nice guy,
Speaker 4: a good operator, never speaks badly about anyone.
Speaker 3: And those guys HRT for a moment, you had them on.
Speaker 3: You had them on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and he's super die and he HRT man,
Speaker 4: they're no joke. But remember with HRT, they train train
Speaker 4: train Wanny evolution after doing an evolution. They are training,
Speaker 4: train and trained, and God bless the man, God bless
Speaker 4: you for.
Speaker 3: A long time.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe it's a misconception, but like people would say,
Speaker 2: like HRT doesn't actually do anything. But I mean the
Speaker 2: last like ten years or so, especially, it seems like
Speaker 2: they're getting after it quite a bit.
Speaker 3: I believe. I believe they are too.
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, I mean you had some situations
Speaker 4: that they were really kind of getting a bad rap war.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know the ones, the Ruby Ridge, the one,
Speaker 3: this one and one that. You know, it all comes
Speaker 3: down to, you know what, what's your what's your focus?
Speaker 3: What do you want them to do? How many teams
Speaker 3: do you have, how many are in a team?
Speaker 4: And you know, it's the same thing with us, if
Speaker 4: I may, if I may kind of trainransition a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 4: at what age, we had what we call we had
Speaker 4: first we had snow cap operations. Snow cap operations where
Speaker 4: a group of men that would go to all the
Speaker 4: different schools and then you go down south and you
Speaker 4: blow up coming doesn't laughs, and you make a ton
Speaker 4: of money. This is the days back in the when
Speaker 4: I first imployment in the eighties and early nine and disbanded.
Speaker 3: He disbanded. Good guys.
Speaker 2: Snow Cap is where they are like Vietnam veterans flying
Speaker 2: Hughey's done in South America.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you got it, You absolutely got it.
Speaker 3: And there a hardcore man. I mean, we had one
Speaker 3: guy in our group group.
Speaker 4: Three, named Dick, and I wave the last name because
Speaker 4: he's he's a he's.
Speaker 3: A warrior, man, I'll tell you that.
Speaker 4: But Dick, he would love to break the fngs and
Speaker 4: I think you know what FNNG stands for, Freaking new guys,
Speaker 4: freaking new girls, you know. And he would come around
Speaker 4: on pay day when he's back from deployment. He need
Speaker 4: have a stack of money on him and he'd wipe
Speaker 4: his brow and he'd go, oh, it's so hot today,
Speaker 4: so hot today. And we're like going ARGs seven's man,
Speaker 4: we're like making like twenty five thousand dollars back in
Speaker 4: like in nineteen eighty seven, enter eighty eight, you know,
Speaker 4: And I'm like, damn, you know, maybe I should sign
Speaker 4: up for Snowcaps. And then I find out what snow
Speaker 4: Caps about. I'm like, nah, I don't want any things
Speaker 4: in my intestines and I don't want to be going
Speaker 4: to the bathroom at all hours of the night, you know.
Speaker 4: So then we moved into a program called FAST. Now
Speaker 4: this is where five the five ninety five comes in
Speaker 4: with the odas and God bless them and thank thanks,
Speaker 4: like I said, for doing what they did. Well, you
Speaker 4: guys did in that Jack and and so the Foreign
Speaker 4: Advisory Support Team there was five teams Alpha, Brad, Wicholi, DECA, Delta,
Speaker 4: Echo and they would rotate in and out of Afghanistan
Speaker 4: and they would and they would work counterinsurgencies and drug
Speaker 4: missions and going to the bazaars and blow things up
Speaker 4: and burn things down, and it was it was effective.
Speaker 4: But what happens is you get the hired ups and
Speaker 4: then it's like, well you're doing a little too much,
Speaker 4: shoot them up, banging them up. We're gonna have to
Speaker 4: try if we're gonna have to hold back because FAST
Speaker 4: guys were then moving to other operational theory a theater Honduras,
Speaker 4: you know, doing some other you know, snatch and grab
Speaker 4: work off the coast somewhere, and it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 4: We just we just want the fast personnel to the
Speaker 4: sixty or ninety days to do these missions with O
Speaker 4: DA nine, you know, five ninety five or or whatever.
Speaker 3: And that was that was something that you know, that
Speaker 3: was that was dangerous. It was very dangerous.
Speaker 4: Uh And a lot of times it came down to
Speaker 4: too many congressional hearings, too much push going on. And
Speaker 4: the guys that ran it, I mean they're friends of mine.
Speaker 4: I mean they were super guys. I mean they they
Speaker 4: were wonderful people and they know they know their business.
Speaker 4: But I just want to hire up, sayah, we can't
Speaker 4: be doing that anymore. And they just dismantled all these
Speaker 4: weapons Jack and Dave, I'm talking like all kind of
Speaker 4: crazy weapons, man, beautiful weapons, as our president will say, beautiful,
Speaker 4: beautiful stuff, you know, and gone spend the money gone gone.
Speaker 4: So now we don't have we don't have Foreign and
Speaker 4: Value Support teams.
Speaker 2: An long the Fast Teams were super active in Afghanistan also,
Speaker 2: as she went out, that's kind of like an untold story.
Speaker 3: I think, can you can you?
Speaker 4: I mean you're probably My sharing with with the with
Speaker 4: the Fast Team was, as I was in inspections, every
Speaker 4: time they pulled the trigger, we had to investigate the
Speaker 4: trigger being pulled.
Speaker 3: From Afar, from Afar BECU we couldn't enter into a
Speaker 3: war zone.
Speaker 4: So a lot of times it was very very short
Speaker 4: and concise a did this be did this, did this,
Speaker 4: and boom, it goes to the shooting incident board and uh.
Speaker 3: It's to get most of the time it's cleared.
Speaker 4: So but you're right about that, and they were doing
Speaker 4: everything your O das were doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well then they as I recall, they did work
Speaker 2: with special Forces with with Australian sas a bunch of
Speaker 2: different units, like.
Speaker 4: Because they because they were jointing, right, Yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 4: and you know, and I know I had.
Speaker 3: The opportunity to deal with the most uh excuse me,
Speaker 3: some of the Australians. They're they're awesome, man, they're awesome.
Speaker 4: They come to Quantico and they want to work the
Speaker 4: houses and and our free time we work with them.
Speaker 4: And we had you know, different Argentinians coming in and
Speaker 4: special Forces and it's just coming into train, trains, training,
Speaker 4: and me personally, I am not a military guy, but
Speaker 4: I was trained in the ability to teach certain ways
Speaker 4: of tactics and and and it worked out.
Speaker 3: It workd out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean it's it's easy to see how
Speaker 5: you know, they would start having mission creep or expanding
Speaker 5: their scope or whatever else. Because when you're in theater,
Speaker 5: whether you know whether it was when you know it
Speaker 5: was with Snowcap or with Fast or whatever. Like, you're
Speaker 5: always looking for work, and you know you might go
Speaker 5: down with like disapproved mission set or these approved programmers parameters,
Speaker 5: but when you see other things and you go, oh,
Speaker 5: well that needs to be addressed too, and you know
Speaker 5: you've got and everybody's willing.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were tasked to go after the heroin though
Speaker 3: in Afghanistan.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, right, But I mean but you know, if
Speaker 5: they're sitting at you know, if they're sitting you know,
Speaker 5: at bogroom with one of the tfs, they'll they'll go
Speaker 5: knock on a door and go, hey, what are you
Speaker 5: guys up to?
Speaker 3: Is there a way we can get into this or
Speaker 3: you know whatever.
Speaker 5: Like you're you're always like pimping yourself, You're always looking
Speaker 5: for working those donments.
Speaker 4: I I just said, I I never was part of
Speaker 4: a FAST program. I take my hats off to those
Speaker 4: personnel that did it. I know a lot of them
Speaker 4: that did it that were former students that rolled over
Speaker 4: to you know, the field work and then he went
Speaker 4: over to the up the.
Speaker 3: Farm, I mean the Fast Team Fast program. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm not saying I wanted to do it.
Speaker 4: I said I wouldn't want to do it. But those
Speaker 4: who did it, God blessed them many.
Speaker 3: God bless him.
Speaker 4: A good friend of mine, Carson, he was involved with it.
Speaker 4: And he was this guy Loo looked like Bull from
Speaker 4: Night Court. And he was a motor scooter man and
Speaker 4: he was one of the PTA instructors with me in Quantico,
Speaker 4: the fifth degree black belt in the Great Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker 4: And he would he would wrap you up like a
Speaker 4: spider and you you're not getting out of it, dude.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just gotta tap out.
Speaker 4: You know.
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Speaker 3: God bless those guys for doing it. God bless them.
Speaker 3: Where where did you go after Quantica? Quantico down? Then
Speaker 3: went down to the was promoted.
Speaker 4: I was promoted Jack Dave to Resident Agent in charge
Speaker 4: the Saint Croix Resident Office in the in the Caribbean
Speaker 4: Division and the Caribbean Division the divisional office in Grenabo
Speaker 4: or San Juan. But we have kind of what we
Speaker 4: call it's a hybrid division, meaning you have territorial offices
Speaker 4: Puerto Rico, Saint Thomas and Croix. Then you have foreign
Speaker 4: offices anywhere from Freeport Bahamas all the way down to Williamstead,
Speaker 4: Cota Saw, all the way down the island, all the
Speaker 4: way west. So we call it a hybrid division. So
Speaker 4: you're working with domestic basically with those offices.
Speaker 3: In Puerto Rico.
Speaker 4: What kind offices in Puerto Rico where you have You
Speaker 4: have the San Juan office, you had the aga DA office,
Speaker 4: you had the Tahardo office at the Punt office, so
Speaker 4: all around are all around the island in a block.
Speaker 4: But yet you had a Freeport office, you had a
Speaker 4: national office. So it was very complicated sometimes because one
Speaker 4: one hour you're working domestically, next hour you're working foreign.
Speaker 4: Like in other words, I could have guys in Antigua
Speaker 4: working with Dantigue Wins and then my other guys over
Speaker 4: in Fajardo executing a restaurant with the Barhardo office.
Speaker 3: So it was it was very, very challenging, to say
Speaker 3: the least, because I had about uh as a boss.
Speaker 4: I had about nineteen nineteen weapon carricers down there, very
Speaker 4: close with the FBI, very close to atf Customs Border Patrol,
Speaker 4: believe it or not.
Speaker 3: And it really worked out, really really did it was.
Speaker 4: It was a it was a yeah, a littit challenges
Speaker 4: took place because you're on a you're on a twenty
Speaker 4: eight mile wide sem ex give me a twenty mile
Speaker 4: twenty long, sever a mile wide rock.
Speaker 3: You have to think outside the box. And we had
Speaker 3: to think outside the box there. You really did.
Speaker 4: It's just like any mission that you might have been on.
Speaker 4: You like, oh, this is a normal mission that we've
Speaker 4: done before. It's like, no, it's it's different. It's it's changed.
Speaker 4: It's changed because you're on the island. You're dealing with
Speaker 4: air boat assets. You know, maybe you're hitting the location,
Speaker 4: hitting the door. Unlike the cities. You know, you're hitting doors,
Speaker 4: crack crashing doors on the islands. It's it changed, it's different.
Speaker 2: On the surface of all of this, you know, an
Speaker 2: assignment to Saint Croix. Sounds like it's a kind of
Speaker 2: pleasure tour. You know, this is a really good Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know even more.
Speaker 4: Than walking to Cove and stay with my wife and
Speaker 4: I forgot three months and by the think like I
Speaker 4: gotta get off this rock.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you want. I needed to give the guys
Speaker 3: rn R to go take dope back to Miami.
Speaker 4: To burn dope in Miami because you get rock fever, man,
Speaker 4: you get rock Fie and everyone knows you, so you
Speaker 4: have to work outside the box.
Speaker 2: Could could you also kind of like lay out like geopolitically,
Speaker 2: what the situation is down there, because the Caribbean obviously
Speaker 2: you're there for a reason, they're you know, you described
Speaker 2: it as a scene of modern piracy.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know we got everything from the cocaine cowboys in
Speaker 2: the eighties and now we're into the nineteen nineties, you
Speaker 2: know both like you said, air sea and land drugs
Speaker 2: being smuggled south to north.
Speaker 4: That's that's correct. I mean when I was there, and
Speaker 4: it just goes back a long time. This goes back
Speaker 4: a long time. I was there from O one O
Speaker 4: four four years, running the running the show down there,
Speaker 4: had great, great coordination with with the troops from uh
Speaker 4: all our alphabet agencies, but also the Dutch, the French
Speaker 4: and the Brits.
Speaker 3: Think about that because those islands, it's it's.
Speaker 4: It's it's funny because people say the America's got the
Speaker 4: worst islands, the US Virgin Islands, and we got Puerto Rico.
Speaker 4: You know, I mean, no disrespect, you know, but but
Speaker 4: you got you got Saint Martin. To the French, you
Speaker 4: gotta you know, you got you got the A d
Speaker 4: C's down below with the Dutch, they're beautiful and like,
Speaker 4: oh okay, and we got these guys. Okay, so we
Speaker 4: have to take this. But who was our I gotta
Speaker 4: be honest to you. We had no disrespect to the
Speaker 4: other country, America, the Dutch, the French, and the bridge.
Speaker 4: It was the Brits.
Speaker 3: Mick.
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna go with a guy named Mick. He
Speaker 4: was the man over into Poland. We were tight with
Speaker 4: the bricks. They they would bring it, they would bring
Speaker 4: sea assets, hair assets, and they would think outside the
Speaker 4: box with us.
Speaker 3: The Dutch, in the French, you know, they you know,
Speaker 3: this guy got with you know, to Chisa Heroin.
Speaker 4: Okay, give a ticket, you know, kind of deal, not
Speaker 4: being disrespectful to them. But that's that's what they would do. Uh,
Speaker 4: we would go to coordinational meeting. You like this, We'll
Speaker 4: go to the coordination meetings and we have a coordinational meeting,
Speaker 4: saying Saint Martin. You know the Dutch style, you know,
Speaker 4: you have you have the French up top, in the
Speaker 4: Dutch down below to the south. We go over for
Speaker 4: coordinational media and the Dutch would be there, the French,
Speaker 4: the bride, and here and we and who would come
Speaker 4: walking in and they'd all say, and here come the
Speaker 4: Americans and here come the Americans, and we'd walk in,
Speaker 4: you know because why because the Americans they all thought
Speaker 4: that we, being the Americans, we were the ones that
Speaker 4: were driving everything, pushing everything, spending the money, bringing the
Speaker 4: personnel in.
Speaker 3: Kind of kind of true because you meant you've made it.
Speaker 3: You made a comment or jack, you.
Speaker 4: Know, dope going north and money coming south. And that's
Speaker 4: that's absolutely true. Because when that dope comes off the
Speaker 4: coast of Surinam, Guyana, not Guyana, Africa, guy guy out
Speaker 4: the south off the southern cone there and then you
Speaker 4: have Veniceuela Letting, and then you have Columbia and of
Speaker 4: course you on the Ecuador so and end. They have
Speaker 4: to go through the Panama Canal to get into the goal.
Speaker 4: I mean into into the sea, the Caribbean Sea, and
Speaker 4: they stay inside the sea. They don't go out to
Speaker 4: the Atlantic Ocean.
Speaker 3: It's too rough. So they'll run that all the way
Speaker 3: up until they.
Speaker 4: Get around our neighborhood and then they'll break either for
Speaker 4: Africa or Lisban, Portugal, or they'll keep they'll break over
Speaker 4: to Puerto Rico, or they'll go up the chains in
Speaker 4: the TCS or up to the Bahamas. It's an art, man,
Speaker 4: it's not we used to have. We had to pinned
Speaker 4: down routes and roots. And I'm still I probably walk
Speaker 4: in that office today and look at that, look at
Speaker 4: the board. I'm like, man, doesn't change. So still still happen. Yeah,
Speaker 4: still still the same thing. And people say, well, what
Speaker 4: about the seventh centamp countries to your west, they're keeping that.
Speaker 3: They'll don't blow it. They'll blow off.
Speaker 4: Uh. Doors sometimes will come out, but that dope has
Speaker 4: to be trucked through land, possibly getting further caught or seized.
Speaker 3: First, you put on the water. You guys been down.
Speaker 3: I'm sure you have admissions and you look down there,
Speaker 3: you see you're punching.
Speaker 4: You're punching holes of.
Speaker 3: The darkness, and you're like, where are we? You're playing
Speaker 3: at night time, like, where the hell are we?
Speaker 2: It's just also interesting, like you know, some of it
Speaker 2: has to do, I think with how much flight time
Speaker 2: a single prop plane has on one tank of fuel
Speaker 2: and where you know they have to land to refuel.
Speaker 2: And if you look at the flight range or those
Speaker 2: planes and going just like go on Google Earth and
Speaker 2: start calculating where they would have to land in that Caribbean,
Speaker 2: you know, Southern Cone, like, it becomes pretty clear what
Speaker 2: the drug air fields would have to be.
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I mean, you know, one one funny movie and
Speaker 4: I don't know if you guys ever seen this, but
Speaker 4: it's fine. I don't really watch the Coffer shows or whatever,
Speaker 4: but get a chance to watch watch American Name with
Speaker 4: Tom Cruise.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is based on the based on
Speaker 3: a true story.
Speaker 4: Yeah story, man, it's it's he was a He worked
Speaker 4: all the alphabets D A, FBI, C A T S.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 4: I he was just knowing us all. And he's down
Speaker 4: there with the narco. He's hanging out with the narcos,
Speaker 4: and and honestly, guy, he they know the routs, they
Speaker 4: knew what they were doing. But that that, you know,
Speaker 4: to say what you want, you know, laugh at it
Speaker 4: or whatever.
Speaker 3: I think it's funny as hell. But watch that movie.
Speaker 3: It's true. They'll they'll know.
Speaker 4: I mean, they know that the submarine action that's been
Speaker 4: happening over the last number of years, the submarines or that.
Speaker 4: You know, these people had the biggest may I say,
Speaker 4: goonas in the world. They'd be in these little Yola boats.
Speaker 4: A Yola boat is it's a lowlyon boat with a
Speaker 4: little I think, I think of gas and I think
Speaker 4: of water and two guys and they be on the
Speaker 4: boat with fifty kilos on it in the middle of
Speaker 4: the freaking Caribbean. Cy like what the coach guard a
Speaker 4: one ten or two ten with picked himp and go,
Speaker 4: what are you guys doing? Oh, we need to get
Speaker 4: this to Puerto Rico. You know, Oh my god, you're
Speaker 4: gonna die out here. You're gonna die. I'm like, well,
Speaker 4: you know, it's whatever they're getting paid, you know, fifty
Speaker 4: bucks a key. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Supposedly, it's like hell on Earth on those those improvised
Speaker 2: mini subs too.
Speaker 3: I don't even know.
Speaker 4: I couldn't make I couldn't even talk about those, but
Speaker 4: I bet man, I mean, I couldn't imagine it. But honestly,
Speaker 4: that's a great question. Have great break break break question
Speaker 4: and Dave break questions as well. Right, we were always
Speaker 4: active before I thank Froyd office in the Caribbean division.
Speaker 4: You had to work with the foreign counterparts because of intelligence.
Speaker 2: So tell us about some of the ops. Like in
Speaker 2: one case, you guys who did like a reverse undercover sting.
Speaker 4: Absolutely one of the one of the greatest cases. Man,
Speaker 4: it was awesome, great thinking. A guy named Joe put
Speaker 4: this together. I give him kudos, and the guys helped
Speaker 4: him out amazing. What we ended up doing was we
Speaker 4: got to approval for this and when we became the
Speaker 4: best guy, we became the bad guys. The DEA became
Speaker 4: the bad guys. Meaning when you talk about reverse undercover operation,
Speaker 4: what we ended up doing was we made these burlap bags,
Speaker 4: burlap bales, ten burlout bales. In those ten burl ab bales,
Speaker 4: we had upwards of about.
Speaker 3: Fifty piece fifty kilos.
Speaker 4: It was it was two byts, it was two pounds
Speaker 4: of wood, two point two pounds of wood, newspaper wrapped
Speaker 4: induct tape, and fifty of them stuffed in the burlout bag,
Speaker 4: stuffed in the burloup. So we had ten of them,
Speaker 4: and our mission was to fly it in with a
Speaker 4: Dea plane and we had an offload crew. The crew
Speaker 4: was gonna come and gonna get these ten. We totally
Speaker 4: you got ten to get out of the water. Who
Speaker 4: told them confidential informant, confidential source. We couldn't get any
Speaker 4: agency to this crew, couldn't get it in. We had
Speaker 4: to go to this with his confidential source.
Speaker 3: We ended up had the pane. We have a you
Speaker 3: like this one.
Speaker 4: We used to have a forty two foot go fast
Speaker 4: boat down there aside to us two my guys with
Speaker 4: the boat handlings go for it. They could figure they
Speaker 4: drive that thing around the Caribbean, burned some fuel, need it,
Speaker 4: must need it, you know, right. So this plane we
Speaker 4: came in, oh three hundred in the morning, covered darkness,
Speaker 4: dropped boom boom, ten bailed down, okay, dropping it out,
Speaker 4: dropping them out. So that's five hundred, that's five hundred keys,
Speaker 4: you know overall, you know, times to two point two
Speaker 4: pounds about eleven hundred pounds throwing it out.
Speaker 3: These guys.
Speaker 4: Came off the beach into the water in their little
Speaker 4: yolos and they covered darkness. Dave and Jack, they were
Speaker 4: able to locate all ten bail.
Speaker 3: When they came off the beach. They had a van.
Speaker 3: That van was to put them in the van take.
Speaker 4: It to a storage facility on Saint Croix because it
Speaker 4: was then going to be moved over to Puto Ricos
Speaker 4: the next day more within a day or two. Well,
Speaker 4: unbeknownst to them, when they came off the let off
Speaker 4: the water and they get feet dry, that's when the
Speaker 4: rest team we came in. We we nailed them all
Speaker 4: and two of them were like Version's National Guard guys
Speaker 4: and you know, just looking for extra side hustle money and.
Speaker 5: So yeah, without like I obviously I don't want you
Speaker 5: to you know, I don't want to get into questions
Speaker 5: like tradecrafter or your operational security, but like when you're
Speaker 5: doing something like that for these guys who are like
Speaker 5: the the offload crews or you know, transfer guys, are
Speaker 5: they like independents who will work for any cartel that
Speaker 5: says do this or are or are they part of
Speaker 5: a cartel's pipeline.
Speaker 4: No, that's a great question. That's a great question, Dave.
Speaker 4: It's mainly going to be who wants to pay somebody
Speaker 4: to do a side hustle.
Speaker 3: That's what it is.
Speaker 4: They're looking for money down here, and they they could
Speaker 4: be doing they could be doing this one week next week. There.
Speaker 4: I hate to say this, they're they're taking you know,
Speaker 4: human trafficking off a cargo ship over to Puerto Rico.
Speaker 3: Interesting. It's very it's you know, it's sad. It's sad everyone.
Speaker 4: I mean, I love. I mean, you come into this
Speaker 4: in the Caribbean and I always tell people get blue,
Speaker 4: green water, sandy beaches, blue skies.
Speaker 3: It's great and all that it is. And it's very
Speaker 3: expensive to live healthcare.
Speaker 4: So so I would always say living in the third
Speaker 4: world country and the American flag, it was it was rough.
Speaker 4: But you know what, I salute the people that work
Speaker 4: the Caribbean Division, you know because back in the day,
Speaker 4: and I'll put it in football terminology for the in
Speaker 4: country agents that are in the Colombian offices and the
Speaker 4: you know, the the Ghana and the Gregorian offices, they're
Speaker 4: like the they're like the defensive line then you move
Speaker 4: into the Central Americas and you move into the Caribbeans.
Speaker 4: Now you're like the lineback. And now they get in
Speaker 4: America US of A, they're the defensive backs. You know,
Speaker 4: that's that's the best way I can put the lines
Speaker 4: of the answer there all the way through. And and
Speaker 4: you know it was I always considered us we have
Speaker 4: if we don't stop it here, it's getting in and
Speaker 4: it's getting a bigger location the United States of America.
Speaker 4: So they can go into Miami, they can go into Jacksonville,
Speaker 4: they can go into the Carolinas, the Phillies, they can
Speaker 4: just bump bump, bump, bump bump. And it was true,
Speaker 4: and it was definitely true. And we would try to
Speaker 4: always uh. A lot of a lot of times you
Speaker 4: get calls from the cones, the CONIS offices say I
Speaker 4: just give you an example, Say Atlanta, Atlanta got a
Speaker 4: case and operation and they know these.
Speaker 3: Guys that are from.
Speaker 4: Saint Croix, and we'd be like, yeah, we know them, Yeah,
Speaker 4: we know Jones, you know or you know whatever, and sure,
Speaker 4: sure and what we got we got them up.
Speaker 3: We got a warm up here for his rest, Like, well,
Speaker 3: what what do you got?
Speaker 4: And they would tell us, so we would kind of
Speaker 4: formulate a plan with our Saint Thomas office to try
Speaker 4: to end up sticking this guy not only in the Caribbean,
Speaker 4: but also hit him up in the Northern District of
Speaker 4: Georgia and of Atlanta. And that's the best way because
Speaker 4: we used to probably get these guys off the islands
Speaker 4: because even though you had federal court in Saint Croix
Speaker 4: and Saint Thomas who were coming into the jury pool,
Speaker 4: their fears, they're tied in he's my aunt, he's my uncle,
Speaker 4: forget going to forget going to territorial court.
Speaker 3: They're gonna get off. So you have to take the
Speaker 3: cases federal.
Speaker 4: And we would love to take them federal off another
Speaker 4: jurisdics like the Eastern just Pennsylvania, so just to Florida,
Speaker 4: central Middle District of Florida. Uh, just to get them
Speaker 4: off off the rock. And I'll tell you my people,
Speaker 4: my guys and gals, they were acist. Man, they were
Speaker 4: they were they were awesome.
Speaker 3: It was it was hard.
Speaker 4: It was hard when he came evaluation tied because everyone's
Speaker 4: going to know, man outstanding because it's it's just.
Speaker 3: Not what I had to do.
Speaker 5: What I have to do for so so so when
Speaker 5: they so you know, because I've heard in the past
Speaker 5: that that whether it's drugs or human trafficking or whatever,
Speaker 5: that even though there are different parties that are like
Speaker 5: responsible for that stuff, that they tend to follow the
Speaker 5: the same paths. And is it because of these like
Speaker 5: sort of independent agents at whatever way stations or localities
Speaker 5: it is to just facilitate movement through borders or through
Speaker 5: through areas well.
Speaker 4: May bain thing when you're when you're talking different, you're
Speaker 4: different talking at different stages throughout right.
Speaker 3: Remember, they wall each other other off. They wall each
Speaker 3: other off.
Speaker 4: Okay, if you get caught with it, you don't know,
Speaker 4: I'm on the next the next leg, right, because we
Speaker 4: don't we don't want to be we don't want to
Speaker 4: know one another, we don't want to be that co
Speaker 4: conspirator kind of stay away from one another. But yet
Speaker 4: you have situations where you know, as as as adult
Speaker 4: moves further north in that Caribbean, it gets more and
Speaker 4: more expensive and and you know it's it's just like
Speaker 4: that freighter captain that brought that load into Philadelphia. I mean,
Speaker 4: you don't think he was talked to man, you know,
Speaker 4: And He's like, you know, I have I have a
Speaker 4: I have a thousand fifty two foot containers on here.
Speaker 3: I didn't know. I didn't check them all. I didn't
Speaker 3: check them all. So and that was going all the
Speaker 3: way to Montreal. Yeah, we haven't told that story yet
Speaker 3: on the show, so we should. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh, but I want to get yeah, I do want
Speaker 2: to get into that one. But there's also the assassination attempt.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's right, Yeah, assassination attempt. One one of my agents.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what a hard working guy. This guy was,
Speaker 2: great guy. Former Aty's second airborne guy came Angel His
Speaker 2: he just uh.
Speaker 3: Just amazing.
Speaker 4: He's from Saint Croix. His family owns probably the best
Speaker 4: restaurant on the island that deals with chicken.
Speaker 3: You know, you'll you'll love that.
Speaker 4: Type of chicken where it's just cooked on the open flame.
Speaker 4: We used to always called it get the Chicken on
Speaker 4: a Friday and at and so what happened was we
Speaker 4: were we were investigating an organization and the organization on
Speaker 4: the island they were dealing with getting their packages from
Speaker 4: down south, and they were also going against the the
Speaker 4: crew over the bbis named the Hawgs Crew. They were
Speaker 4: very very much battling it out. They were looking for
Speaker 4: total territorial They wanted to they want to be part
Speaker 4: of the the be all end all on that part
Speaker 4: of our region. So what happened was our guy Agent.
Speaker 4: And when I say agent, he's a dad. He's a
Speaker 4: deputized task force officer. Okay, Virgin Islands Police officer, a
Speaker 4: signed to my office.
Speaker 3: Great guy, well known, just just a tough, tough guy.
Speaker 4: What happens is his father is closing down the chicken
Speaker 4: shack they called the chicken chef.
Speaker 3: Well, Angel's father is driving.
Speaker 4: The son's pick up the miss the seniors driving the
Speaker 4: junior's pickup truck. Well, the gangster is they aren't the
Speaker 4: best intelligence or surveillance. They think it's the officer, the agent,
Speaker 4: let's call it.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 4: As the pickup truck leaves the location, is driving on
Speaker 4: the left hand side of the road.
Speaker 3: Now a picture of the Islands left hand side.
Speaker 4: Of the road, but you drive with the vehicle wheels
Speaker 4: on the left hand side as well, like in the States.
Speaker 4: So this other pickup truck comes up behind him cover
Speaker 4: of darkness about midnight. He was going to the dump
Speaker 4: and throws some trash away, comes around and comes around
Speaker 4: on his passenger side. Two gunmen, automatic weapons stand up
Speaker 4: in the back of the truck. Sixty rounds two they
Speaker 4: counted sixty dolls, sixty rounds, thirty thirty and thirty at
Speaker 4: sixty rounds thirty rounds, thirty rounds total sixty.
Speaker 3: He was hit three times, sixty year old male two
Speaker 3: two three rounds. The man survived. The only way he survived.
Speaker 4: He used to carry a snub nose thirty eight snubnose
Speaker 4: on his ankle. He fired over the hood of the
Speaker 4: car at them, didn't hit anybody, and they fled. He
Speaker 4: survived two three two two three rounds hit him and
Speaker 4: sixty different doals. That's the USBI. Well, when that happened,
Speaker 4: Dave and Jack, it created a a firestorm. It created
Speaker 4: a firestorm on the island for the agencies. We were
Speaker 4: the lead agency. We brought more firepower in there than
Speaker 4: you could imagine. We had all kinds of personnel DA, FBI,
Speaker 4: US Marshals, atf Customs. We just brought it all in
Speaker 4: and we sat on these personnel. Got this organization from
Speaker 4: January till about May, and the crime statistics went way down.
Speaker 4: Chief Francis Commissioner Francis loved us for it, and I
Speaker 4: said this, we cannot sustain this. And we were taking
Speaker 4: these and we were arresting these guys left and right
Speaker 4: because we had the wiretaps.
Speaker 3: We were kicking doors. It got so crazy.
Speaker 4: It got so crazy that the guys from the bv
Speaker 4: I were coming over and killing them. And I said, no, no,
Speaker 4: don't kill them because I need to do a pistol
Speaker 4: history a rest for because if you're dead, I can't.
Speaker 3: I can't take you as a statistics it's a little joke.
Speaker 4: It's a little joke. It's a little joke. But if
Speaker 4: they're dead, I can't. I can't take you as statistic.
Speaker 4: One in particular case, it's about eleven o'clock in the
Speaker 4: morning and there's one fella. He had these long dreads.
Speaker 4: And I get a call at the desk, a boss, Yes, Chris,
Speaker 4: what's up. You'll never guess who's laying in the doorway
Speaker 4: in his house? And I said who, and he says,
Speaker 4: blah blah blah. I said, I gotta come and see this.
Speaker 4: They had guys dressed in black masks on shotguns. He
Speaker 4: tries to run out the back door. Now minds you.
Speaker 4: It's a block home. There's no up and downstairs, no basement,
Speaker 4: it's just a block home. Man galvanised rouving.
Speaker 3: And you just sit in Africa and all that crazy stuff.
Speaker 4: He goes to run out the door, leaving his girlfriend
Speaker 4: sitting there watching the price is right. He goes running
Speaker 4: out the door, him in the back boom boom, and
Speaker 4: his dreads were flipped over his head. He was crushing
Speaker 4: in the middle of the door. So great, Now I
Speaker 4: can't I can't take this guy's stash.
Speaker 5: So these other criminal elements were moving on these guys
Speaker 5: because absolutely.
Speaker 4: Absolutely they knew they weren't armed.
Speaker 3: We were doing their work for them.
Speaker 4: And one particular guy, the main guy, and I'll just
Speaker 4: say they call him the Godfather.
Speaker 3: He was in his He was basically standing in his yard. Now,
Speaker 3: let's be honest.
Speaker 4: The yard is chain League fans with dirt and a
Speaker 4: little block building. He's on the phone and about right
Speaker 4: across the streets, boom boom, A K four seven is one.
Speaker 4: Then they had one of the chests dropped the mike there.
Speaker 4: He was still on the phone talking talking to his girlfriend.
Speaker 4: They found them holding the phone still. They went over
Speaker 4: starts to Bush where there was the case. So when
Speaker 4: you talk about like, you know, was I worried about
Speaker 4: the family members. I worried about my wife, But I
Speaker 4: worried about the guys on the islands.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, because they were out they were just just
Speaker 4: doing her crazy stuff. Fifty thousand populations, fifty thousand populations
Speaker 4: on the island, about one hundred murders a year.
Speaker 3: Wow, related it's crazy.
Speaker 4: I mean one murder, one one particular shootout they had
Speaker 4: where I would turn to go home and I know
Speaker 4: my wife in particular times she's at the gym and
Speaker 4: I know she's finishing up, and I get.
Speaker 3: Her on the phone.
Speaker 4: I said, I said, worry, you said, I'm at the team.
Speaker 4: I said, stay there a little bit longer, do some
Speaker 4: more work on you know, on a stepper olliptical, doing
Speaker 4: signing out there a little bit longer because they were
Speaker 4: an investigating and shooting right at the intersection. Yeah, it's
Speaker 4: like whoa, but you know what we did a man
Speaker 4: a day to day at a Caribbean man division.
Speaker 2: And so around this timeframe also, I mean it's early
Speaker 2: two thousands. You want to tell us this this kind
Speaker 2: of humorous story, I guess about the internal affairs investigation.
Speaker 4: Ah jeez, Yeah, that that one I talk about because
Speaker 4: you know, in my I said this earlier. If you're
Speaker 4: not doing your work, you're you're going to get an
Speaker 4: internal affair or what we call it o PR officer
Speaker 4: fresh responsibility. And you know, I was good for my career.
Speaker 4: I didn't get any crazy stuff late on me or whatever.
Speaker 6: And I wasn't I was.
Speaker 3: I was any inspection division, but on the mister Meanings side,
Speaker 3: not the felonies on.
Speaker 4: The felony side. So what happens is nine to eleven
Speaker 4: takes place. It's it's September two thousand and one, nine eleven,
Speaker 4: two thousand and one. Wife and I are coming back
Speaker 4: from the in laws from Christmas. And now that's now
Speaker 4: this is going to be I guess in January of
Speaker 4: two thousand and two. Well, the t didn't have their
Speaker 4: stuff all together at the time. They were just fairly new.
Speaker 3: They were virgin.
Speaker 4: They didn't know what really was going on or how
Speaker 4: to treat law enforcement and how to treat passengers. And
Speaker 4: so I do my normal thing. And if you guys
Speaker 4: don't know what we do, we got to move to
Speaker 4: the side because we're going to be armed, we're gonna
Speaker 4: be to identify ourselves. And you know, signed a book
Speaker 4: in a whole bit in any airport, in any airport.
Speaker 3: And then my wife starts to go through regular screening.
Speaker 3: It's one fella.
Speaker 4: He worked for Kmart and he was the head of
Speaker 4: TSA for that and he basically came up hard on me,
Speaker 4: and if you know, highly qualified and I and I
Speaker 4: basically game the tin. I didn't I didn't shove it
Speaker 4: in his face. I didn't do anything magic. Well, we
Speaker 4: got through, we got through security.
Speaker 3: We get to the plane.
Speaker 4: We're going from phillip We're going from Harrisburg to Philly, Philly,
Speaker 4: down to Saint Croix.
Speaker 3: And I said to my wife, I said, that guy's
Speaker 3: gonna cause me trouble. He's gonna cause me trouble. I
Speaker 3: just felt in him my bones. I just felt it.
Speaker 4: When I looked at the case file, and there was
Speaker 4: a case file on me, because it is there was
Speaker 4: a piece of paper eight and half. I eleve a
Speaker 4: white piece of paper ripped in half and a note
Speaker 4: on it and said this agent was disrespectful to me.
Speaker 4: I got I got an investigation on an alley, crazy disrespectful.
Speaker 4: It must have cost uncle, sound like two thousand dollars
Speaker 4: to do that to get me cleared with articulous kidd
Speaker 4: of me. So in my retirement party, I said, I
Speaker 4: told the crowd, I said, and I had one. I
Speaker 4: had one in frontal affairs investigation and I beat it.
Speaker 4: They're like, Matt Jack, what was I said, TSA case
Speaker 4: that doesn't count count.
Speaker 3: That's funny.
Speaker 2: I there are a few other interesting things that happened,
Speaker 2: you know, throughout your career.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 2: Do you want to tell the story about your cooperation
Speaker 2: with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in tracking the freighter
Speaker 2: coming in from Venezuela.
Speaker 3: Yes, great, great case. Mike.
Speaker 4: Mike and Matt were both the case age and I
Speaker 4: was like a third on it, and we had information
Speaker 4: that a freighter was coming out of Venezuela up to Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: Now we were working very closely.
Speaker 4: With not only DEA but also customs on the way,
Speaker 4: and that freighter was given basically a free reign on
Speaker 4: a controlled delivery covered by customs. Basically let it move
Speaker 4: up to Philadelphia to his destination and when it hits Philly,
Speaker 4: we're going to board the vestment.
Speaker 3: And that's what happened when when a vestment was.
Speaker 4: Being tracked all the way imagine it from all the
Speaker 4: way from Venezuela through the Cribean Sea, all the way
Speaker 4: up past Miami Fami, he's Philly. Well, when we end
Speaker 4: up hitting it, he didn't get in the continent, we
Speaker 4: do the container number pulled it out and then they
Speaker 4: had within two by fours.
Speaker 3: The trafficking we're going to the distribution organization, traffic organization.
Speaker 4: Had one point one pound baggy stuff, not two point
Speaker 4: twos have kilos in boards for a total of over
Speaker 4: one thousand pounds a thousand keys.
Speaker 3: Well that that tractor trailer took the trader or fifty
Speaker 3: two foot what do you call it?
Speaker 4: Container cargo cardinal container was going to be taken to Montreal,
Speaker 4: Canada and handed off to the RCMP and also our
Speaker 4: office in Montreal at the time, and it's going to
Speaker 4: be in the cover where you are a driver. The
Speaker 4: driver is you know, an unwinning driver. He's a professional
Speaker 4: tractor trailer driver. And when that thing gets on his vehicle,
Speaker 4: on his track and his trailer, he's going And then
Speaker 4: I'll tell you what, Jack and Dave, you want to
Speaker 4: see a professional driver take off or he took off
Speaker 4: man and he drove and this guy who went to
Speaker 4: stop where to stop to get that package? Get that
Speaker 4: load up to Montreal border. When we were going up
Speaker 4: to the New York State threw away, a storm came in.
Speaker 4: We had we had a fixed wing covering it. We
Speaker 4: were watching the fireflies up on night time and all that.
Speaker 6: We came up.
Speaker 4: They came upon a storm and the plane says that
Speaker 4: we have to veer off. I can't go through the storm.
Speaker 3: I got to veer off.
Speaker 4: Ground units. You take it, well, the ground unit's form
Speaker 4: close enough. Like talk about miscommunication. We basically lose the
Speaker 4: tractor trailer for a period of time. We find that
Speaker 4: truck stop on the left on the west side of
Speaker 4: the I guess it was the New York State. Threw
Speaker 4: a un state eighty seven. We circle back around. He's
Speaker 4: pumping fuel.
Speaker 3: We found him. We found him.
Speaker 4: The bird goes and gets more, got more fuel as well,
Speaker 4: storm passes. He gets back up in the air. We
Speaker 4: moved back on the interstate. But before going on into
Speaker 4: the Interstate, I took a ball peen hammer and I
Speaker 4: smashed a little little red light to make a white
Speaker 4: light show through it. And I said, there's your beacon, man,
Speaker 4: and we followed that beacon up the Age State through
Speaker 4: away until the storm did pass and we got up
Speaker 4: to the the RCMP or a Canadian border, we how
Speaker 4: to give our weapons up. So we were pretty much like,
Speaker 4: we're just kind of hanging out now. We can't do
Speaker 4: anyth because the RCMP won't allow us to bring the
Speaker 4: weapons in the country.
Speaker 3: So that was one of the one of the UH.
Speaker 4: It was. It was a great investigation from not just
Speaker 4: from from the guys down south to customs and US
Speaker 4: in Philly, but to r CMP international case. You talk
Speaker 4: about an international case, and that was going to an organization,
Speaker 4: a bunch of gangsters, UH Italian gangsters up there in Canada.
Speaker 4: And we stayed up there for the week and I
Speaker 4: think on the Thursday they did the takedown because how
Speaker 4: why did they do the takedown because when they broke in,
Speaker 4: we had they had the location wired up, and when
Speaker 4: they broke in the.
Speaker 3: Dope p se the wood, that's when it takedown to
Speaker 3: the place. And we were not part of it.
Speaker 4: We were not part of it, but it was the
Speaker 4: RCMP did a great job with that. Organizations is a
Speaker 4: dyning wite organization.
Speaker 2: It's it's kind of I mean, if I understand the
Speaker 2: concept of the operation correct, I mean, it is fascinating
Speaker 2: that you guys knew this shipment was coming from Venezuela,
Speaker 2: tracked up to the United States, allowed it into the
Speaker 2: United States, drove it through the United States, crossed another
Speaker 2: international border into Canada, and then let the buy sort
Speaker 2: of pseudo take place, so that the Canadians could not
Speaker 2: only seize the drugs, but also arrest this local.
Speaker 4: And that's what you call that's what you call it
Speaker 4: international control delivery, International control delivery. Pretty, it's pretty hot,
Speaker 4: it's pretty it's it's one of those things that you
Speaker 4: have to get a certain approval and the higher higher
Speaker 4: up's got to prove that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because what's the what's the biggest thing that could
Speaker 3: possibly have you lose? You lose?
Speaker 4: Okay, so not a thousand keys a thousand, a thousand
Speaker 4: keys of coke for the right And people are like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, you can't do that, you can't do that. Well,
Speaker 4: trust me, we we let it go. Being like it's
Speaker 4: on a boat. It's on a boat where it's going
Speaker 4: to go going into the water. You're gonna push the
Speaker 4: car to the water, but go into the wall, let
Speaker 4: it get to port.
Speaker 3: And that's when you take it. That's when you ended
Speaker 3: up taking it.
Speaker 4: And if you have to have right information, because if
Speaker 4: you see those freighters, and you've seen them, you know
Speaker 4: up in New York and Baltimore and New work up
Speaker 4: there in Jersey, they're stacked to the gills.
Speaker 3: Man, what's what equipment was tough in them.
Speaker 4: You got to know what number and you gotta know
Speaker 4: what Once they start moving all that stuff out, it's
Speaker 4: like moving chess pieces, like, yeah, you get to the
Speaker 4: right one and you can run dogs all over them.
Speaker 3: Those poochas are gonna are gonna be burned out before
Speaker 3: they find it.
Speaker 4: And and that's and that's basically I keep saying, customers,
Speaker 4: I'm an old school guy. Customers, how it's Homeland Security,
Speaker 4: customs and border protection.
Speaker 3: God, there's so many other alphabets out there now. I
Speaker 3: gotta be honest.
Speaker 4: I know my normal E A F B, I A
Speaker 4: T f uh C I A you know, I marshals.
Speaker 4: So but to do that, it was was quite quite
Speaker 4: a quite an entertaining feet to say. And as a
Speaker 4: bottom line, no one got hurt, No one got hurt.
Speaker 4: That's always we do safety safety safety.
Speaker 3: What is sort of like for you guys for your hires,
Speaker 3: Like what is the.
Speaker 5: Risk analysis because you because like you say, you know,
Speaker 5: whether it's you guys kicking drugs out into the ocean
Speaker 5: in order for you know, in order to identify the
Speaker 5: pickup crew or you know, or allowing the shipman to
Speaker 5: come in. Because we see like the atf Fast and
Speaker 5: Furious right where they tried an operation and lost track
Speaker 5: of everything.
Speaker 3: So like what weapons? Yeah, yeah, so like that one.
Speaker 5: I cannot speak on I do know that was not
Speaker 5: it was not a good thing, but right I don't
Speaker 5: not necessarily for you to speak on on that. But
Speaker 5: you guys are engaged in similar types of operations where
Speaker 5: there's a certain element of the unknown where you know,
Speaker 5: if you do lose the eyeball or something like that happens,
Speaker 5: or if they do something that maybe you know that
Speaker 5: changes up their pattern of life where it's like this,
Speaker 5: we didn't expect them to do.
Speaker 3: This, and now we don't know where they are.
Speaker 6: Like how does that?
Speaker 5: What's the risk mitigation type for you guys, for your
Speaker 5: for your hires, do do like do uh does the
Speaker 5: you know exact level.
Speaker 3: Sometimes get cold feet when it comes to this kind
Speaker 3: of stuff.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a great that's a great question, David.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it depends on you know what
Speaker 4: there goes. That was saying risk versus reward. You know,
Speaker 4: always always err on the side of always err on
Speaker 4: the side of caution. And I get it with with
Speaker 4: the higher ups. I became not not that higher up.
Speaker 4: And you know, those guys are in the ses levels
Speaker 4: making those decisions for extra twelve thousand dollars year, and
Speaker 4: they're all getting gray hairs and they're getting heavy set
Speaker 4: in the bellies because they can't do anything but being
Speaker 4: the obsta like, oh my god, what am I gonna
Speaker 4: What am I gonna do? How do I do this?
Speaker 3: But I do believe that I may boast a little bit,
Speaker 3: I do believe.
Speaker 4: That the DA and what we do, training and knowledge
Speaker 4: and lessons learned, we have seen it and done it.
Speaker 4: But then again, we've done all kind of trickery stuff
Speaker 4: and all kind of great things, and and it works out.
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, we might lose. I hate to say
Speaker 3: the word lose.
Speaker 4: Yes, you might lose. I'll be honest. In Baltimore, I'm
Speaker 4: up in Baltimore. I'm first out of the Caribbean Division.
Speaker 4: Now I'm used to dealing with major loads. I go
Speaker 4: now from the Caribbean Division as the resonators are, to
Speaker 4: Baltimore as a group supervisor. Another wonderful group group six
Speaker 4: sixteen weapons carriers, Baltimore City guys, Baltimore County State guys.
Speaker 4: And one of the first missions during the week, they
Speaker 4: want to go out and do a control delivery. Oh
Speaker 4: my god, I said, okay, well, we want to go
Speaker 4: and do a control delivery. Okay, now I'm thinking control
Speaker 4: delivery Caribbean the vision. I'm thinking multiple keys, you know,
Speaker 4: when whatever, whatever. Well, they got a packet from the
Speaker 4: FedEx fed X. They used to hit the FedEx places
Speaker 4: and they end up getting like it was like ten
Speaker 4: pounds a weed. They wanted to control the delivery this
Speaker 4: and I'm like, no, you gotta be kidding me, because
Speaker 4: I even said that.
Speaker 3: I said, well, what do you got? I got, but
Speaker 3: you got a couple hundred punds? What do you want
Speaker 3: to do here?
Speaker 4: How much is ten pounds? I'm not being disrespectful to
Speaker 4: the guys. When I show it up, I was like,
Speaker 4: what I mean? Because I was used to.
Speaker 3: Working with.
Speaker 4: You know, it's like you guys, you guys are used
Speaker 4: to work with the former you know, you know former
Speaker 4: you know Tier two operators and then you know two
Speaker 4: or one operators And I was, and they say, yeah,
Speaker 4: go and teach these guys.
Speaker 3: Go work with these guys from the National Guard.
Speaker 4: Here. You're like, what you know, You're like, no disrespect,
Speaker 4: but you know, I'm not saying you're you're dumb and
Speaker 4: you're dumbin us down.
Speaker 3: But it's like, are you sure you want me to
Speaker 3: do this?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 3: So I what I what I did for the guys.
Speaker 4: I want to see how you're going to operate. I
Speaker 4: want to see I are gonna operates as a former coach,
Speaker 4: as a teacher. I want to see how they are
Speaker 4: going to operate versus my other how we operated in
Speaker 4: phill Lee and Allentown and down in the Caribbean.
Speaker 3: How are you going to operate?
Speaker 4: Well, let's let's say it didn't go somewhere because the
Speaker 4: gentleman in the back missed the eyeball and the crook
Speaker 4: went out the back with the ten ten pounds of grass, right,
Speaker 4: and guess.
Speaker 3: Who had to write a memo? Oh no, not the boss,
Speaker 3: not me.
Speaker 4: It was a case agent, and then the poort and
Speaker 4: and the boss there was like what what what I'm like,
Speaker 4: it's ten pounds of grass, ten pounds of a marawah.
Speaker 3: No one got hurt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, but that's a great question you had
Speaker 4: they But honest to god, you try to do all,
Speaker 4: you take all the all the bull out of it,
Speaker 4: you try to whittle it down.
Speaker 3: You're still gonna get issues. And then you guys know dangers.
Speaker 4: I mean, you're you're in the swamp somewhere, you're doing
Speaker 4: something crazy and you're not supposed to do it. And
Speaker 4: this guy's old there, you know, doing something you're not
Speaker 4: supposed to be doing.
Speaker 3: It's like, did you see that?
Speaker 4: No? I didn't see that. You know you need to
Speaker 4: cover your six No I missed it. Yeah, well now
Speaker 4: you guys all killed.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But bottom line with that though, and that's a great,
Speaker 4: great question. That's the only time and I'm and I'm
Speaker 4: running up to God, I was for in front of court.
Speaker 4: Is the only time I was ever used. I was
Speaker 4: part of dope being lost.
Speaker 3: Yeah, was a mirror.
Speaker 4: Was a mirror A couple pounds of grass in Baltimore
Speaker 4: and the guys felt terrible. They felt terrible. Yeah, I said,
Speaker 4: I said, next week, we're doing it, and we're gonna
Speaker 4: have remedial training and we're gonna do it again, you know.
Speaker 3: And and then they honored that. They they they were
Speaker 3: honored because I didn't say no, no more, no more,
Speaker 3: no more, no not doing that. Another uh something else
Speaker 3: that happened.
Speaker 2: I think in the latter part of your career, you
Speaker 2: were involved in the investigation where there's a helicopter crash
Speaker 2: where a bunch of DA agents were lost.
Speaker 3: Ye tell us, Wow, good, good one there jack yep,
Speaker 3: good one. Yeah, that was that's gonna tie that's gonna
Speaker 3: tie into what you my friends were part of.
Speaker 4: And basically Special Forces five Special Team. Excuse me, I'm
Speaker 4: going to get the right terminology for you. You are,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna get my notes here. One second,
Speaker 4: fifth Group, fifth group. You have to Respecial Forces Group five,
Speaker 4: fifth Group. And of course you were over there in
Speaker 4: Southeast Central Asia and Middle East. And basically what happens
Speaker 4: was our guys would always work with the o DA
Speaker 4: Operation Attachment Alpha five ninety five, which would be the
Speaker 4: fast or if they weren't fast, it was just basically
Speaker 4: some of our guys out there with the bazaars, you know,
Speaker 4: burn Burn burnon the heroin and.
Speaker 3: Ad and very sad for DA.
Speaker 4: If anyone wants to look this up COVERD twenty six
Speaker 4: and nine we left. Three of our a's were killed
Speaker 4: and also seven military person were killed because of a
Speaker 4: c forty seven were shot down. And I mean that
Speaker 4: comes close to your hearts to guys because of the
Speaker 4: fact that you know, being for a military and it
Speaker 4: was during you know, and there was another one night
Speaker 4: mission and there was an hour long gun fight.
Speaker 3: They got up on that bird and it crashed.
Speaker 4: We lost three agents, lost three agents, and if I
Speaker 4: may be, if I may be so as well, this
Speaker 4: is losing personnel.
Speaker 3: You know, there's.
Speaker 4: In DA headquarters as are called Wall of Honor, and
Speaker 4: that Wall of Honors you know in Arlington, Virginia, in
Speaker 4: our headquarters, and when we came over and from into DEA,
Speaker 4: we've had fifty four, fifty four DA personal killed and
Speaker 4: their portraits are on that wall.
Speaker 3: Fifty four and that's rough, man, that's rough.
Speaker 4: I mean, I know, uh Cia, Dave, they'll like to
Speaker 4: put the stars up and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: And one thing is that you have a situation where
Speaker 3: you have fifty four just killed. I mean all kinds.
Speaker 3: I'll be so bold. My roommate in the Academy, God
Speaker 3: rest his soul. Eugene T. McCarthy. Please look him up.
Speaker 3: Eugene T. McCarthy.
Speaker 4: He was killed February second, nineteen ninety one. He was
Speaker 4: a number one student in our class, Naval Academy graduate
Speaker 4: major in the Marine Corps. He was a signed where
Speaker 4: San Diego office. He was in, of course snow Cap
Speaker 4: at the time, and his unit got called up for
Speaker 4: the First Golf War.
Speaker 6: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: He was a Cobra. It was a Cobra gun chappella
Speaker 3: company Platoff.
Speaker 4: And I shared this with you.
Speaker 3: I share it with people because I honor him. I
Speaker 3: honored it. I honor him very much. And he's it
Speaker 3: was a book of the New York Kids.
Speaker 4: Seventy fifth Precincts a Calgary cemetery is buried in And
Speaker 4: what happened was was he was running one of the
Speaker 4: marines coming out of Iraq February two, nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 4: and as Cobrag was getting in trouble, and that's a
Speaker 4: gun ship night vision gog was on first first the
Speaker 4: year or first you know generation nightgggle visions smashes his chopper,
Speaker 4: pitches it into the sand. They didn't have the neck brace,
Speaker 4: they didn't have the harness to the helmets like Nashcar
Speaker 4: they do now, and all that fancy stuff snapped both
Speaker 4: of them. Him and him and his captain, his gunner
Speaker 4: were both killed. When they went out to find him
Speaker 4: the next morning, there were there. He was just like
Speaker 4: they looked like they're sleeping. Jean was this number one student.
Speaker 4: You got to pick where he wanted to go. He
Speaker 4: wanted to go back to San Diego. Wonderful man, wonderful,
Speaker 4: wonderful felt. You know, I still have his phone numbers.
Speaker 4: I still have his phone numbers from his phone and
Speaker 4: all that shit is his residentive than Carlos back California.
Speaker 4: And and I honored a guy because you know, you think, well,
Speaker 4: and who's these guys? If they get kills, it is
Speaker 4: it dangerous?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Even though he was not killed on a DA mission, right,
Speaker 4: but he had raised his hand because he was in
Speaker 4: the reserves.
Speaker 3: He's unit got called up and he went to another
Speaker 3: hot spot in the OORL to serve a country.
Speaker 4: And you know one thing I like to say, is
Speaker 4: there's a there's an author named Joseph Campbell, you know
Speaker 4: Joseph Campbell. And I just found this today and I
Speaker 4: was thinking about it. I said, he once wrote, a
Speaker 4: hero is someone who has given his or her life
Speaker 4: to someone bigger than his oneself. Think about that, bigger
Speaker 4: than his one self. And the hero is with and
Speaker 4: the book that he wrote about that is the hero
Speaker 4: with a thousand face of nineteen forty nine, you know.
Speaker 4: And that's true because you guys probably know the same
Speaker 4: same guys. Man.
Speaker 3: They give their stuff up for wife and limb man,
Speaker 3: they do it.
Speaker 4: And we've had we've had agents wiped out in five
Speaker 4: of them, crashed in the amount of Peru. We've had
Speaker 4: agents undercover, you know, up in your place. Everett Hatcher
Speaker 4: undercover deal killed. There's a street name after every New
Speaker 4: York Field Division Office guy. I mean, there was a
Speaker 4: New York State trooper killed Syracuse guy. I'm not going
Speaker 4: and down the list, but I want people to realize
Speaker 4: that this is not a job that's like all finny
Speaker 4: games and all that stuff. No, man, it's it's it's crazy.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely crazy. Let me put a light on a minute.
Speaker 3: Let me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, please does that help? Is
Speaker 3: that not well a little bit? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: there you go. Yeah, that's great. That'll do it.
Speaker 2: So Jack, tell us a little bit about sort of
Speaker 2: like your career winding down in retirement.
Speaker 4: We're winding down in retirement. So here's a here's a
Speaker 4: funny one for you. You know, I'm in Baltimore. I'm
Speaker 4: in Ball, Baltimore, and.
Speaker 3: You do your your do your How can I put this?
Speaker 4: You do your supervisory supervisory out in the street, your
Speaker 4: supervisory time in the street, which I did.
Speaker 3: I did a number of years in croy Ford and
Speaker 3: then three in Baltimore.
Speaker 4: So I was the boss down the field in two
Speaker 4: separate assignments for almost over seventy years. Most guys'll get
Speaker 4: into headquarters about you know, after four years, but I
Speaker 4: had to do.
Speaker 3: It was a long list and I missed where it
Speaker 3: just started, the program just started. So I had to wait.
Speaker 3: So I got called in.
Speaker 4: I had to go into my former sack, the former
Speaker 4: boss boss the Caribean.
Speaker 3: Division named Roger. He sees my name in the list.
Speaker 3: He's not like the number.
Speaker 4: He was like the chief inspector, the chief operation. I
Speaker 4: can't ready to remember he was up there though he
Speaker 4: was a heavy. He calls me, he says, Jack. He says,
Speaker 4: I see your names on the list. He says, uh,
Speaker 4: of course, I'd like you to come into the inspection division.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh, man, inspections, as I said, Jesus said,
Speaker 4: he said, I want you to go to OPR, which
Speaker 4: our internal affairs. And I said, oh, boss, and I
Speaker 4: really don't. Don't you want to be doing guys in
Speaker 4: internal affairs and all that. He goes, Okay, we're going
Speaker 4: to inspectasta.
Speaker 3: So we have a mister mean. We have the Felony
Speaker 3: squad and the mistermeanor squad.
Speaker 4: So I went to the mister Minor squad, which was
Speaker 4: more of like you go to the offices, you inspect things,
Speaker 4: make sure all the pencils are.
Speaker 3: Counted, all the cars are in order.
Speaker 4: But you travel the world. You know it's a little boring,
Speaker 4: but you travel the world. So I'm thinking, now, you
Speaker 4: know two things I hate two things. I became a
Speaker 4: newspaper reporter, writing all the time, and then I became
Speaker 4: a travel agent.
Speaker 3: I'm always on the road. I was gone for you know,
Speaker 3: fifty two weeks.
Speaker 4: I'm gone for Oh my gosh, thirty some weeks for
Speaker 4: the fifty two weeks on the road inspecting and did it.
Speaker 3: For five years. Five years. I clank it out, clean
Speaker 3: it out and meaning to another assignment. And I learned
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 4: I can tell you every every darn you know, flast
Speaker 4: of uh you know different settings that there's thirty four
Speaker 4: of this or thirty that or every Yeah, I mean
Speaker 4: here you go from it being a gunslinger, so like
Speaker 4: a in the economy pencils. Yeah, can you know did
Speaker 4: you sign that in red pen or blue pen? And uh,
Speaker 4: maybe I shouldn't say this, but we used to have
Speaker 4: a little we used to have a little game we
Speaker 4: play and the game when you play with a couple
Speaker 4: of agent inspectors. Now I remember we were all Boston.
Speaker 4: The field ran our own offices or you ran your
Speaker 4: own groups. Now they bring you in the headquarters and
Speaker 4: they put in inspections. Yes, it was a prestigious very much,
Speaker 4: so very much, very much prestigious. Absolutely, shirt and tie
Speaker 4: you have to you know, lace it up and all
Speaker 4: that stuff. And I don't mind getting dressed if I
Speaker 4: call it the Superman outpage and put the Superman costume on.
Speaker 4: And uh so we used to have a little thing.
Speaker 4: We go to let's say we're inspecting the Philadelphia Field
Speaker 4: Divisional office and we roll into like an army, you know,
Speaker 4: forty inspectors come in because it's a big it's a
Speaker 4: it's a big operation, so you have to do certain things.
Speaker 4: So we used to have we used to to call yeah, interviews,
Speaker 4: you have to interview the employee. And it was an
Speaker 4: interview sheet.
Speaker 3: You have a sheet. Yeah, you have a sheet.
Speaker 4: You bring the person in and fill your badge, gun, creds,
Speaker 4: credit card, you know, charge's license, and then a couple
Speaker 4: of questions Jason. So we used to time ourselves to
Speaker 4: see would have the who would have the most the
Speaker 4: fastest interviews done and conducted for that particular assignment.
Speaker 3: Just a freaking ward.
Speaker 4: Off the the monotony sometimes, you know, it's just like wow,
Speaker 4: you know, I used to be somebody, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 4: nice for listening to that story.
Speaker 3: But then I went over to the Version division. I
Speaker 3: finally got out of inspection. I really learned a lot
Speaker 3: in the year I was there.
Speaker 4: If you guys remember the the K the K two
Speaker 4: and the spice craziness, the Pope Purrida that people were
Speaker 4: smoking and making this crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was. I was on ad things for
Speaker 3: a year and I learned a lot about it. All
Speaker 3: I knew was it was.
Speaker 4: Dealt with the thac of the marijuana and people are
Speaker 4: smoking freaking potpourri and making them crazy, are jumping out
Speaker 4: bridge and run around running out no clothes on.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh God. So then I finally had a
Speaker 3: contact in our.
Speaker 4: Operations division, the Operations division, and I was able to
Speaker 4: get out of there and I went to operations and
Speaker 4: operations was was great. I was in the Mexico, Central
Speaker 4: America Canada section. Can't stand enough about those guys and gals.
Speaker 3: Uh, probably the busiest in.
Speaker 4: My opion, the busiest, as I said, we're all busy,
Speaker 4: but I think I'm just going to say that, probably
Speaker 4: the busiest in headquarters and raised at the operations division.
Speaker 4: Then I oversaw the offices up in Canada, but yet
Speaker 4: helping with the Mexico in the seventh cent time country offices.
Speaker 4: But my main focus was the office up in Canada,
Speaker 4: which we have an office in Vancouver and Ottawa. We
Speaker 4: closed down the Montreal office and they were great people.
Speaker 4: And all you're doing there is catching catching. You're like,
Speaker 4: what do you need I need tank graph for an
Speaker 4: operation some year operational plan. So and after that about
Speaker 4: a year Jack and a year Dave, about a year
Speaker 4: out for retirement. Mandatory time at fifty seven, the hrgus
Speaker 4: just tap on the shoulder and they say time, look
Speaker 4: at the paperwork. Tind to look at the paperwork. And
Speaker 4: you're like, what you're like, mandatory retirements coming coming in
Speaker 4: twelve months. I'm like, really, So when you're you're done,
Speaker 4: I mean, you're finished. I mean, yeah, it's it's a
Speaker 4: good ride. I had thirty two and you know, I
Speaker 4: just I mean it was I missed it though. I
Speaker 4: mean I missed the people. I missed the hunt. I
Speaker 4: do miss the hunting. And what I'm like, what gets
Speaker 4: me is is and you guys notice too. The GP,
Speaker 4: we call the GP the general public General PUG doesn't
Speaker 4: know a darn thing what you were capable of doing.
Speaker 4: You just you're just a guy in the beach, or
Speaker 4: you're a guy in the jim pumping iron, or you're
Speaker 4: a guy in a bar with you know, having having
Speaker 4: a drink and anything I want to see, I want
Speaker 4: to see about it.
Speaker 3: Maybe we should try this guy.
Speaker 4: Well, let me say, bro, come on and try it,
Speaker 4: because I might be going to do sixty three years old,
Speaker 4: but you know we can.
Speaker 3: I can still roll a little bit, you know.
Speaker 4: And but he just you know, he's just like they don't.
Speaker 4: They don't get it, man, and and and and the
Speaker 4: bottom is is the bottom line is that we know
Speaker 4: what we've done. And that's that's good for me. And
Speaker 4: I know what I was was part of. You guys
Speaker 4: know what you were part of. And it's a it's
Speaker 4: a great feeling. It's a great feeling. We we served
Speaker 4: this country. We we did right for this country. We
Speaker 4: did some great things for this country. And some of
Speaker 4: some of our people, some of our friends didn't. Didn't
Speaker 4: didn't make it back.
Speaker 3: Man, they didn't.
Speaker 4: They got shot up or we're dealing with ailments or
Speaker 4: dealing with PTSD because they got a I got the
Speaker 4: gun in the rib that age twenty five. I think
Speaker 4: if I would have got that in later in life,
Speaker 4: I think I've been a little more me.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I just like I'm invincent. I can I can
Speaker 3: deal with that. I'm good. You know, you want to
Speaker 3: seem I'm good. I'm good. Rip, I'm good, my boss,
Speaker 3: I'm good. You know.
Speaker 4: So do it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just wanted to be I wanted to make
Speaker 5: sure because uh you mentioned this before the show.
Speaker 3: How did you find out or how did you uh
Speaker 3: come to email us? I want to make sure you
Speaker 3: give a shout out.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give a I'm gonna give a shout out
Speaker 4: to my neighbor, my neighbor. Uh Nick, who's my beat
Speaker 4: neighbor here. He was the one that said, is you
Speaker 4: listen to these guys on uh, you know, on the
Speaker 4: Team House.
Speaker 3: I go out of New York City, go Team House. No,
Speaker 3: let me check Team House out.
Speaker 4: So I did, and I said okay, And I did
Speaker 4: some magic with some guy guy in New York and
Speaker 4: I did some other things and man, we got you
Speaker 4: got me on and I and I love it.
Speaker 3: I love it. I honor you guys, man, I honor you.
Speaker 4: And like I said, I'm not looking All I'm looking for, man,
Speaker 4: is is to let people know that there's guys like
Speaker 4: you doing what you guys did, and there's guys like
Speaker 4: myself who did it, and there's people that are doing
Speaker 4: it because is not an easy life.
Speaker 3: And I'll tell you the spouses. You talk about rate of.
Speaker 4: Divorce and alcoholism and crazy stuff on our job. Yeah,
Speaker 4: trust me, it's it's there, and you got to be
Speaker 4: really strong and some of these things. I was watching
Speaker 4: Joe Rogue and he had this one guy on one
Speaker 4: day and he was an undercover guy and he was
Speaker 4: all dolled up with his tats on him and then
Speaker 4: you know, he was he was well spoken, he was
Speaker 4: doing his thing, and he said, how do you turn
Speaker 4: it off?
Speaker 3: Dude? Man, you just got to compartmentalize. You just can't.
Speaker 4: It's just and I like what he said, you know,
Speaker 4: but it's just like, you know, you could be driving
Speaker 4: home in a BMW convertible.
Speaker 3: I was my g car and Philadel, you have to
Speaker 3: put that out there. I have to put that out
Speaker 3: BMW convertible who seized it off?
Speaker 4: A kid who delivered a kilo a crack quilo a
Speaker 4: crack man thirty four ounce baggies kilo.
Speaker 3: A crack took his card three thousand miles and I
Speaker 3: still remember it.
Speaker 4: And you're driving home in a BMW can vertical and
Speaker 4: you're living in Princeton, New Jersey with your beautiful wife
Speaker 4: and she's working in Manhattan. She's doing her thing, and
Speaker 4: you know, just the night usually likes at four o'clock
Speaker 4: in the morning and you just kicked kicked a couple
Speaker 4: of doors in because it was a round we call
Speaker 4: them round ups.
Speaker 3: And you successfully no issues, you know, you no issues,
Speaker 3: and you come home and then the thing he's gonna
Speaker 3: say is, what do you want to do for dinner tonight? Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're like, oh my god, I don't know. What do
Speaker 3: you want to go to?
Speaker 4: That time place in downtown Perston? What do you want
Speaker 4: to do? You know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you guys felt this, some guys felt tell
Speaker 2: us a little bit about like where you're at today,
Speaker 2: what you're up to.
Speaker 3: Now right right today? You know, I come across different things.
Speaker 4: Uh, you know, podcasting I'll do I'll do some motivational talks,
Speaker 4: you know, the different groups. Uh. I just actually if
Speaker 4: you got if you got any hooks, man, I just
Speaker 4: put in for American All American Entertainment Public Speaking Bureau.
Speaker 4: You got the hooks?
Speaker 3: You know that yet me?
Speaker 4: I just sent this stuff into them, and uh yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean I think there's enough in my in my
Speaker 4: pool bag that I.
Speaker 3: Can uh, I can hold it can hold an audience.
Speaker 5: I think I think I think, well that's amazing. But
Speaker 5: you're also just and I mean, it's amazing that you
Speaker 5: you know, how long you served. And usually like when
Speaker 5: people tell, you know, when when a lot of people
Speaker 5: think of the retirement, they're thinking they're counting the days,
Speaker 5: and here, you know, you wake up one day and
Speaker 5: hr saying, oh god, you know it's time.
Speaker 3: You're like, wait a minute, hold on, you know, really,
Speaker 3: you know, Dave, thank you very much. And and and Jack,
Speaker 3: I tell you I didn't like that. I didn't like it.
Speaker 3: I didn't like it. Yeah, I knew, I knew, you know,
Speaker 3: I just I didn't like it.
Speaker 4: I just people say to me, you know, why don't
Speaker 4: you move to the next level? Why just you know what?
Speaker 3: I was content where I was. I didn't want to,
Speaker 3: you know, I didn't want to be one of these
Speaker 3: guys that.
Speaker 4: You know, some guys chased the carriage. I don't want
Speaker 4: to be that guy chasing the carriage. It chases the
Speaker 4: carrot four PCSS and I got the q s. I
Speaker 4: qs eyes are like quality step increases for for exempt
Speaker 4: you know, ext extra exemptional work you get in in
Speaker 4: the division.
Speaker 3: I got one in Philly, one in Quantico, one in
Speaker 3: Saint Croix.
Speaker 4: And and then I just I just felt like I
Speaker 4: was like done, Like I was like finished. Man, all
Speaker 4: all of this stuff they put into you, all of
Speaker 4: this uh great training. Man.
Speaker 3: I love traying.
Speaker 4: I can't tell you how many rounds, and you know,
Speaker 4: like eve into this day. I still carry the same
Speaker 4: weapons I carried the job. I carried my my nine
Speaker 4: millimeter as my glock nine mm certified to carry it.
Speaker 4: I carried as I was my backup weapon. My point
Speaker 4: glock twenty two was the duty weapon. I had to
Speaker 4: turn that in. I still got a tackle twelve gate
Speaker 4: shot and I boxed myself. I got an M four
Speaker 4: five point five six. I've been on those weapons, you know, and.
Speaker 3: Trust me, you meet me in person, you see my lives,
Speaker 3: you'd be like, no ways.
Speaker 4: I got a barrelsucker and I called a barttlsluckers because
Speaker 4: I you couldn't tell me about lots of ten point
Speaker 4: five millimeter barrel.
Speaker 3: I show blocks and range that pushed the round. What
Speaker 3: are you talking about? Put the man in walking load
Speaker 3: bam bam, bam, bam bam. You know, and that's yeah work,
Speaker 3: gunshoot gun good. Yeah, I got gun shoot gun good. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I love that gun shoot gone good. You know. But
Speaker 3: I try to do that.
Speaker 4: I try to keep in touch with some uh personnel
Speaker 4: that I worked with on the job. I try to
Speaker 4: keep in touch with people that this wold blow away.
Speaker 4: And I know my wife told me not don't get
Speaker 4: any of your personal talking, but I'm gonna tell you anyway.
Speaker 4: Every year, every year, the nineteen seventy nine Marion Colge
Speaker 4: football seniors, there's eighteen of us. We get together every
Speaker 4: First Saturday in October football reunion back in near Allentown, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic. Is that freaking cool?
Speaker 4: And every year we give back to the football current
Speaker 4: football program. It's a private school. I'm a pro co
Speaker 4: kid from from you know, from first grade eight twelfth grade.
Speaker 4: I went to private school. My dad was a public
Speaker 4: school teacher.
Speaker 3: And he's like, he's like, you know, I can't send
Speaker 3: them my kids there. You gonna go to private school. Man.
Speaker 4: Me and my myself, my two sisters. This year, our
Speaker 4: gift which we all present to the team. They have
Speaker 4: like a they have a locker room called the Blue Room.
Speaker 4: We are going to give them a fifty five inch
Speaker 4: color TV. We're gonna give them a drink refrigerator. Drink
Speaker 4: for drinks, a PlayStation with an extra controller, and Madden
Speaker 4: Football games.
Speaker 3: Kids are are the kids are gonna freaking die. And
Speaker 3: we we blowed him away every year, one way, every year.
Speaker 4: You know. And last year we bought them plates, blue
Speaker 4: and gold rubberized plates, and and these blue and gold
Speaker 4: rubberized plates are not cheap from tight and fitness from
Speaker 4: the forty five and twenty five or thirty fives. They
Speaker 4: were like wow, because remember Catholic schools.
Speaker 3: You know, it's yeah, they're going some that you're playing
Speaker 3: on them. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: So and then one year, my good buddy, we got
Speaker 4: them this thing called the soundbox. You know what a soundboxes.
Speaker 4: It's like I'll miniature like speaker. It will blow the
Speaker 4: socks off, you man. And they take it out pre game.
Speaker 3: They put it on the fifty yard line and they
Speaker 3: played their music.
Speaker 5: Yeah that's cool an right cool on you like that
Speaker 5: and you think that's cool?
Speaker 4: And like I said it, like I said, I do
Speaker 4: miss it. I do appreciate people like you, I really do.
Speaker 4: And if there's you know, anything I can do for you, guys,
Speaker 4: don't hesitates.
Speaker 3: Tell people where they can find you. Jack. Do you
Speaker 3: have a website? Do you have a place something.
Speaker 4: I am an old school guy. My wife. I just
Speaker 4: got a new iPhone sixteen for Christ's sake, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean. I mean I can't give the selling
Speaker 4: rout because they can all kind of yea, but.
Speaker 5: Do you have do you have any social media accounts
Speaker 5: where people can follow you or anything like that.
Speaker 4: I don't. I never. I never was able to.
Speaker 3: We were not allowed to go on social media. Yeah
Speaker 3: in the day, Yeah, I never. I honored that.
Speaker 4: All I have is a email that you guys get
Speaker 4: to me. I will text you my cell number. I
Speaker 4: will text you. I will not time, I will I'll email. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you went to number and maybe we can discuss on
Speaker 4: the side or something.
Speaker 3: But you're you're not on LinkedIn or anything.
Speaker 4: I'm linked I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn. Yes, there's
Speaker 4: a going I'm on LinkedIn, but you're gonna see LinkedIn.
Speaker 4: There's no picture, there's no buyer, It's just.
Speaker 3: Who I am. I'm not trying to run from anybody.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to hunt from anybody. You can to
Speaker 3: find me. But yeah, that's a good, that's a good. Yeah.
Speaker 4: LinkedIn Okay, people reach out, Yes, I really, I really
Speaker 4: appreciate it. Is Is there anything else I could uh discuss?
Speaker 3: I mean I think we covered Yeah, you guys, I.
Speaker 4: Did.
Speaker 3: I did my homework, Friz. I definite appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah really I really appreciate it too. On
Speaker 2: our on our end, Jack, thanks for joining.
Speaker 5: Us on the show, Thanks so much, and thanks Nick
Speaker 5: for us also for Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: A listener and he's gonna turn up in Baltimore and
Speaker 4: he's a solid guy and yeah, he'll trust me.
Speaker 3: Now, how does it now?
Speaker 4: Are we when will this air? How's it doing?
Speaker 6: What we're doing?
Speaker 3: What's what goes on?
Speaker 2: This is uh going out to our a very limited
Speaker 2: group of people on our Patreon and it will go
Speaker 2: live on like YouTube and podcast platforms in the next
Speaker 2: couple Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: Live right now for our Patreon subscribers. So if you're
Speaker 3: not subscribing the Patreon, this is what you're missing. Do
Speaker 3: we have any questions for Jack? Love it?
Speaker 4: Man, love it.
Speaker 3: We're just gonna see if we have any questions for
Speaker 3: you from.
Speaker 4: Finally, so what you're saying about two weeks? Because no,
Speaker 4: my boys want.
Speaker 3: A couple of days.
Speaker 6: This will be out either tomorrow tomorrow night or Wednesday,
Speaker 6: and what.
Speaker 3: Are we what are we looking at?
Speaker 4: This? One's number three hundred and fifty three fifty three.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna put that down three fifty three.
Speaker 6: All right, So we have we have one question from
Speaker 6: uh m corbin. Uh do people who drug traffic do
Speaker 6: they usually did? They usually always pay with cash or
Speaker 6: other types of currency.
Speaker 3: Man, that's a great way.
Speaker 4: I mean, back in my day it was all cash related,
Speaker 4: maybe some assets, you know, maybe let's trade your car
Speaker 4: for for you know, for two keys of coke or
Speaker 4: but nowadays it's it's that fit coin, and it's a
Speaker 4: whole different game. It's a whole even I ever ran
Speaker 4: into one of the guys. Uh, this is a good,
Speaker 4: great question. I ran into some of the guys. One
Speaker 4: of the guys, excuse me, that was a former when
Speaker 4: I left Quantico. He came in as a new agent.
Speaker 4: And he goes to the one beach town here. You
Speaker 4: probably guys know the beach towns Dewey Beach, for Hovid Beach, Lewis,
Speaker 4: Bethany Beach, Ben Maccot. That's the whole strip of beaches,
Speaker 4: the beaches here. And we were up in Dewey Beach
Speaker 4: to one night and he basically we were talking and
Speaker 4: we got talking about federally wire tapping and he goes,
Speaker 4: oh no, he goes totally different, he said, but all
Speaker 4: these encrypted sites, Yeah, totally different.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, I'm lot man. Yeah, yeah, fascinate.
Speaker 4: But the guy to his question, uh, back in my day,
Speaker 4: money maybe an asset here and there, but other than that,
Speaker 4: I'm sure I'm sure there is there the bitcoin or
Speaker 4: crazy other things going on with that kind of In fact,
Speaker 4: we had a case where there was one that guy
Speaker 4: gold can gold back in Philly. You get gold for
Speaker 4: his gop because he didn't have het want to break
Speaker 4: in and any cash. That's a whole other money laundering
Speaker 4: angle to it. Yeah, we we did some things with that.
Speaker 4: Myself and my boy Jeff.
Speaker 3: We were pick up We were pick up men for
Speaker 3: UH in Philadelphia, for a trafficking organization.
Speaker 4: We were picking up money and we were of course
Speaker 4: laundering the money through Philly given with taking our cut
Speaker 4: and giving him money back to.
Speaker 3: A different count undercover count. And yeah, we were pick
Speaker 3: up boys. So back in the day, while you're quite young,
Speaker 3: quite young, yes, yes, well thanks Jack, We really appreciate it.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 3: We really appreciate you coming on, reaching out and coming on. Well,
Speaker 3: thank thank you. Like I said, if you guys hear
Speaker 3: of anything, please feel fright.
Speaker 4: I consider you guys, friends and solid guys up there,
Speaker 4: and thank you very very much. And if I need
Speaker 4: some dinner, I guess and uh, really appreciate it. He's
Speaker 4: gone in a couple of days. Yeah, it'll hit on
Speaker 4: your website. It'll be on YouTube in like two days.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Like it's either Tuesday night, Tomorrow night, or Wednesday night
Speaker 6: followed the next morning on audio. So in the next
Speaker 6: couple of days for sure.
Speaker 4: Okay, So that's d D. Thank you very much, appreciate
Speaker 4: I'm gonna send it. I'm gonna send it out with
Speaker 4: my cell number two to you guys, and then, uh,
Speaker 4: it's up to you. You want to get back you
Speaker 4: want to get back to No, it's up to you.
Speaker 3: Sounds right. Thank your service man, and thank you guys.
Speaker 3: We'll see all of you guys out there next time. Thanks.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jack, Thanks Verving, you touch, thank you Jack,
Speaker 3: Dog you, Dave, Bye bye.
Speaker 2: Nos Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just want to talk
Speaker 2: to you for a moment about how you can support
Speaker 2: the show. If you've been watching it, enjoying it, but
Speaker 2: you'd like to get a little bit more involved and
Speaker 2: help us continue to do this.
Speaker 3: You can check out our Patreon.
Speaker 2: It is patreon dot com slash the Teamhouse, and for
Speaker 2: five dollars a month you can get access to all
Speaker 2: of these episodes of The Teamhouse ad free. The same
Speaker 2: goes with our affiliated podcast eyes On with Andy Milburn,
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Speaker 2: of those episodes ad free. And you support the channel
Speaker 2: and the show, and we really appreciate it. The Patreon
Speaker 2: members are literally what has helped this company, this small
Speaker 2: business survive, especially during our early years, and you are
Speaker 2: what continues to help this thing going even as we
Speaker 2: navigate the turbulent world of YouTube advertising.
Speaker 3: So we really appreciate all of you guys.
Speaker 2: There's going to be a link down in the description
Speaker 2: to that Patreon page, and there is also going to
Speaker 2: be a link to our new merch shop, So if
Speaker 2: you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise,
Speaker 2: we got stickers and we also have patches, and I
Speaker 2: should mention if you sign up for Patreon at ten
Speaker 2: dollars a month, we will nail you this patch as well,
Speaker 2: so we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale
Speaker 2: on the merch Shop and additionally they got t shirts
Speaker 2: up there, water bottles, a tote bag, coffee mugs, all
Speaker 2: that good stuff, so please go and check them out
Speaker 2: and support the show.
Speaker 3: We really appreciate it, guys.
Speaker 4: Thank you,