Speaker 1: At a book.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to be able to listen to the
show without ads and have full access to bonus content,
that's an option. To find out how, please go to
Dogmanencounters dot com Forward Slash Podcast. Tonight's guest is Joe Bass. Joe,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2: Vick Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for your time. Joe,
please give us a brief bio on yourself.
Speaker 3: Brief bio. My name is Joe Bass.
Speaker 1: I am founder of Uncanny Cryptid Cartographer. I am about
fifty five years old and very much I'm backwoods apple Achian, bushcrafter,
cryptid believer, lover of the woods, lover of the environment.
Speaker 3: And we can get into the rest lighter.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a plan. Yeah, we definitely will get
into the rest in a bid here. And when we
spoke for the first time, you mentioned all the time
you spent rooming around the mountains and the Appalachians having
a ball. While I'm wondering you didn't know about dogmen
back then. With that in mind, do you see that
as a good thing looking back, or do you wish
you would have known about dog men sharing those mountains
with you? As you're rooming wild.
Speaker 1: Dog Man at the point in my life was as
far as I concerned, I really had never heard of it.
Speaker 3: It was like the Werewolf of London, something on black
and white movies.
Speaker 1: That really was not something for me to be concerned about.
I was a backwards man. The only thing to be
really concerned about was people in the woods. Everything else
I could take with a grain of salt or know
how to navigate my way around it. So the dog
man experience really wasn't there. Looking back at certain experiences,
there could have been things that were on the liminal
way that could have said that there might have been
a dog man watching, or satsquatch watching, or some other
sort of limital force creature that was there, like a
small blip of a childhood experience which I never really
thought about until now. I was riding my bike through
the woods, and it was during the era where every
kid had a Shwin banana seat bicycle, and that was
like somewhere in the eighties, and I was in the
woods myself, just riding my bike, and I heard something graul,
like a real guttural growl, but it wasn't like anything
I heard before, and I got like that dream terror
type of feeling inside my gut and took off all
of the woods with my bike. But I guess, as
I continue to think about it and reflect, there are
things that have happened, I guess my entire life, but
nothing kind of solidified until it was June thirteenth, twenty twenty,
and that was my experience that happened in the Appalachians
in western North Carolina Tennessee border.
Speaker 2: That changed everything. Now you look for them now, Joe,
But do you think you would have looked for them
back then when you were a kid, if you would
have known about their existence. I don't know what kind
of a kid you were. Some kids, if they would
know about something like that, then heck yeah, they'd be
looking for them at every opportunity. But other kids, they
wouldn't even think about heading back into the mountains.
Speaker 3: Well, I think I would have tried to. I honestly
think I would.
Speaker 1: I would have tried to make friends with it, and
I think I might have been I would have been
becoming an annoyance to the dog man because I was
that type of kid. I was always poking around looking
for frogs or you know, catching snakes or sitting in
the bush trying to attract the bird to come and
sit on my shoulder. So I never really visualized anything
as being the enemy animal or the predator. It was
more along the track or Tom Brown, and I would
follow his passion for nature and wildlife. So I think
the fear that whatever this being is that likes to
instill in people probably would have scared me the same
way it scared me when I was on my bike
riding trails in the woods.
Speaker 3: It's that uncontrollable.
Speaker 1: Get out that this being emanates.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's when I'm beginning to conclude it's kind of like
a defense mechanism, like a skunk. You don't stick around
and make friends with a skunk after it sprays you,
So the dog man might have the same type of
eminence around it that it creates that you really don't
have a choice but to leave.
Speaker 2: You just mentioned the fear that they tend to instill
in us. With that in mind, pretty much anyone who
knows anything about dog men has pretty strong opinions regarding
the danger they present or the dangers that they don't present.
If you bump into one. What are your thoughts on.
Speaker 1: That bumping into one, well, I think before you bump
into one, it already knows whether it wants to bump into.
Speaker 3: You or not.
Speaker 1: And my experience that I had in western North Carolina
was kind of there was no bumping into I think
it was there observing until we were made aware by
another being that was there. And we can discuss that
later as we move on through this. If you get
too close to certain territorial things, these beings come from
a very very ancient, ancient time, and some of them
they've lost all like memory. They're kind of like they
don't know who they are, but they still run on autopilot.
And it's same as having a dog on the other
side of the fence. If the fence is there, whether
we can see it or not, the dog man will
guard whatever is on the other side of the fence
and it will instill that fear. But once that fence
is removed by whomever, your mentality, your ignorance of being
in the woods, you become invisible to the dog man.
It's kind of like if you take the fence away
from a junkyard dog. A junkyard dog doesn't really see
you there. Its purpose is gone, but if there's something there,
whether it's some ancient tribal memory or some other type
of liminal barrier, the dog men will continue to be there,
whether they're in America, Ireland, Africa, wherever they may be,
or maybe encountered. These beings have been here for a
very long time, and they're global.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the many funny things about these guys.
So many people think if you're not around Michigan, if
you're not around Wisconsin, you don't have to worry about
running into one. But like you said, they really are
all over. They definitely are. While investigating in a particular area,
you found out about what locals in the area call
night people. Please tell us more about that.
Speaker 1: Okay, there's certain areas in Washington State and the natives
that are in that area, and I need to be
very careful how I speak about the native populations in
that area. They hold everything extremely sacred and it's almost
taboo to speak about certain things like this. So I'm
going to touch it very lightly, not to insult anybody,
and give them thanks for the stories that they have provided.
The night people are the call them stick Indians, and
these are beings that they're they're they're more of shadow.
They're guardians of sacred areas, and they are very nocturnal,
and they run trails, they run ridges, they run woods,
they make particular sounds. They they cause people, they like
escort people out of the woods. They can be mistaken
as the sasquatch by a lot of researchers are just
casual experiencers that really don't know what they're experiencing. These
are the night people, or others have called them the Channado.
Speaker 3: So that's what I know about the night people.
Speaker 2: Is it possible that the night people might be able
to shape shift into the form of what looks like
a dog men And sometimes when people go into areas
that they're not welcome in the night people are actually
behind it. It's not an actual dog man that's escorting
them out.
Speaker 3: That could be partial truth.
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on that, but that's why I'm
continuing my research.
Speaker 3: Shape shifting. According to if you see a dog.
Speaker 1: And upright by petal dog the size of a grizzly
bear standing in a shadow off trail or in front
of you or behind you backdrop by whatever light fog,
it would be a very scary thing. To see, and
in our own like primal consciousness, seeing a wolf on
the trail is about the scariest thing a person can see.
Speaker 2: It sure is, because back when we lived in caves,
we've been programmed to be terrified of seeing anything like
that out there in the wild. So yeah, it's no
wonder that affects us the way it does. All right, Joe,
please tell us about your encounter. Now, give us a
real last detail that comes to mind.
Speaker 3: Okay, every last detail. You got it, Ricky.
Speaker 1: So there's experiences that can become dividing in everybody's life,
and you can measure everything as either before or after.
When you enter into this world, things completely become before
or after. So it's kind of confusing, and this is
my story to abate that confusion my family. There was
a dividing line that happened on June thirteenth, twenty twenty
deep inside in the Appalachian Cove along the North Carolina
Tennessee border. It was in the middle of summer, similar
to what's happening across the United States right now. It
was ninety degrees, but in the forest it was a
little bit cooler, especially along the stream that we knew
so we drove several miles into the old Forest Service
road until civilization completely disappeared. There's nothing, no people, no
four wheelers, nothing, no cars, just dead end forest road.
There's towering hardwoods. They're enclosed and by like a narrow valley,
so it's kind of like you're driving into a cut
between rocks and river and the stream is ice cold.
It never chills down, it never it never heats up.
It's always chilly. Pardon me. It's a hidden place and
time absolutely slows down here. There's when you get into it.
There's no reason to rush. It's just you make your
day and however long it may be there, it seems
like an entire lifetime that you're back in the woods.
So my wife and I decided to take a cold
plunge in this area while our daughter played nearby, and
we laughed and splashed and let out loud instinctive whoops
as the water shocked our bodies. So as a looking back,
you know, I wondered if those natural whoops, as we
all know sasquatch gets attracted by whoops, right, that we
might have attracted what I refer my wife refers to
is the sentinel of the woods and that was what
through the rock. But before I get ahead of myself,
here we were in this water and we were enjoying
ourselves and it was just like the perfect family experience.
And that's when everything changed because there was no silence
of the woods. There was no os effect, and os
effect means that's when the birds go quiet, and everything
just kind of stopped. That did happen? A large rock
crashed down into the creek, only a few yards downstream
from where we stood, and that's when we stopped laughing.
It was instantaneous guard up and party over. We were
looking at the direction and my eyes locked onto a
place where the rock had landed and beneath the shadow
of the overhanging trees and behind what's called bee balm.
It's this bright red, very scented type of flower that
grows natively in the streams of North Carolina. Behind this,
I could see what was There was a crouched creature.
And it wasn't a bear, it wasn't a dog, it
wasn't a person. I've been in the woods long enough
to recognize what I'm looking at. This was covered in
midnight black fur, and its muzzle was elongated but it
wasn't like the bear brown. It was more of a black,
more of a baboon type of muzzle, and the eyes
were jet black too.
Speaker 3: But it never rushed, it never lunched. It just simply watched,
similar to like the Thinking Man. It just watched and
it looked at me.
Speaker 1: And my daughter had seen it at that moment, but
since then she's completely forgotten the entire experience.
Speaker 3: She was very young at that point.
Speaker 1: But the thing that I've never been able to explain
this theodity, and I've never heard this in any dog
man's story. It began to flicker. The closest comparison I
can make, it almost looked how similar to the Star
Wars holograms when they played Chester, when C three po
put out the hologram of Princess Leah, it was similar
to that. It's outline would shift in and out of view.
But whether that appearance was caused by lighting, my perception
or something I can't explain, I honestly don't know. I
only know that it's exactly how I remember seeing it.
So instinct took over at that point and it was
pure adrenaline. I grabbed my daughter and I threw it
across the stream. It wasn't like a lunge. It was
like the stream was maybe three four feet wide. So
I just threw it across the stream and toward the
safety of my wife because she was already creating a
safe place inside the truck, and we left immediately. The
next thing either of us clearly remembers is driving down
the mountain road talking about how refreshing the cold water
was despite the summer heat, and we neither of us
remembers discussing what happened at all.
Speaker 3: It was completely blocked.
Speaker 1: That missing piece of memory remains one of the strangest
aspects of the entire experience.
Speaker 3: That was.
Speaker 1: We don't know why we couldn't remember. It was nearly
a year or so that passed before we seriously talked
about that afternoon.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 1: We were living in Washington State at that moment, and
the whole reason why we were doing the cold plunging
was to prepare our bodies for the cold waters of Washington,
which we were going to go swim into glaciers. It
had nothing to do with the doug Man, It had
nothing to do with searching out sasquatch or any other
limital creature. We just wanted to go swim in cold
glacial waters of Washington State for the summer, that's all.
And it led to this. And while we were in
Washington State, we ran into other people that had Sasquatch experiences.
Almost seemingly the entire state of Washington has sasquatch experiences.
Or you stop at a gas station, someone is telling
you about sasquatch. You know, welcome to Washington. Please share
your sasquatch experience with us as you leave. So we were
speaking to some people and we were telling them about
our experience, and I was telling about how the rock
landed and I saw the things crouching in the shadows,
and my wife looked at me and she said, that's
not what I saw. And that's when the other story
came out. How she looked uphill towards the direction where
she believed the rock was thrown from and hidden up
in the laurels, which are thick. I mean, you can
fallow off the side of a mountain if you hit
a laurel, patrickal just bounce down because they're so thick
and impenetrable. But what she saw up there was what
she described what appeared to be a large, hairy brown boulder,
and then it moved. She could see the dark skin
beneath the hair. She could see the face. It was
almost like it had like the dark gray, earthy green
hunter type makeup on, but it was not makeup. And
then it moved and she could see the eyes, and
that's they were wet and they were reflective, and they
were staring right back at her. As soon as the
eye contact was made. She watched the figure slow like
it swayed back and forth like all the other sasquatch
experiences talk about, but we never really heard or kind
of put two and two together, but it was very
similar to a lot of other stories of experiences about
the site's way back and forth. So that's when she
decided to head for the truck. She wasn't telling me
what she was seeing. I wasn't pointing to the thing.
We all assumed we were seeing the same thing and
having the same experience.
Speaker 3: But she saw something which could be considered to be
a sasquatch.
Speaker 1: So that was the sentinel during the rock to give
us attention that there was what I did not see.
As a man, I did not know what I saw.
I didn't say it was a baby sasquatch. I didn't
say it was a hunter hiding in the woods, because
the glitchy effect took that all the way. It took
many other years of figuring out finally that I might
have been looking directly at a dog man. And that's
what I feel in my heart. So years later we
came back, and this was last year, not this year.
It was twenty five. We decided to go back. We
came back to visit North Carolina and we went back
to the site of the experience. That's when we had
become familiar with liminal etiquette, which is, you know, a
sasquatch etiquette. You bring in apple or you bring some sage,
and you do a little ceremony of apologies. And when
we did that, my wife kind of stayed back in
the truck at that point. And when I said my
apologies to whatever being that was there, there was a
strong wind that blew through the cove, and there was
a very loud trill whistle that followed with the wind.
And when we heard that, that was our confirmation, and
that timing caught our attention, and my wife, being who
she is, she said, it's time to go now. And
so we listened. Now on the third visit, which was
this year, after coming back from Washington again, we go
back fourth. We love Washington, we love the people there,
we love the stories. We also loved North Carolina, and
the traditions at the mountains hold here as well, so
we feel connected coast to coast. The third visit, neither
of us felt openly threatened, but both of us had
the unmistakable feeling that we were being watched from somewhere
beyond the forest. What we could see it wasn't welcoming.
It was more like you walked into somebody's home, but
everybody hid behind the furniture, but you knew.
Speaker 3: They were there.
Speaker 1: So I stood up on a large rock that was
beside the creek, and my wife was over listening to
something as well, and we're observing where we.
Speaker 3: Had witnessed these two beings.
Speaker 1: And there was this powerful shove that hit my chest
and it forced me backwards, and so I kind of
I basically fell off the rock, landed gracefully, but I
turned around and my wife is like waving at me
to basically get back into the vehicle. I didn't see anything,
and I couldn't identify what caused it. But what she reported,
She said she was hearing like indistinct voices that were
coming from the surrounding vegetation. She couldn't distinguish the words,
only what sounded like a quiet conversation hidden in the brush.
But so once again we decided it was time to leave.
There was no memory of life or anything else like that.
And I really don't have like any type of need
to go back to the spot again. And that's kind
of what you experience when you get in these aspects
that are unexplained.
Speaker 3: You continue to wrestle with them or you make peace
with them.
Speaker 1: So with that, you know, I make no claim of
possessing the definitive answer what was there.
Speaker 3: I can only tell you what we remembered that single
afternoon changed the direction of our lives.
Speaker 1: What began as one unexplained encounter became years of research.
She doesn't really want to bring that into our lives
because of her being the protective mama bear that she is,
But me being the individual that I am, I love
the woods and everything it's in it. I also love
history and regional folklore, indigenous oral traditions and what they
have been publicly documented, like frontier journals, old newspaper archives,
modern eye witness reports. So I searched for recurring patterns
rather than just isolated stories. And you mentioned Michigan. There
there is something in the Michigan, Wisconsin area that is
attracting a lot of dog man stories, similar to the
Land Between the Lakes area that is down here, same thing.
So there's something there that I need to.
Speaker 3: Focus on now.
Speaker 1: As for my research, like I said, it expands beyond
Appalachia into the Pacific, Northwest, Rocky Canada, Europe and elsewhere.
I compare reports of sasquatch, large hated beings often referred
to today as the dog man.
Speaker 3: Others referred to them as like a Nubis.
Speaker 1: Or there's other Greek stories that have dogs, or many
other stories of just dog headed people.
Speaker 3: So I look for those similarities.
Speaker 1: Even in the movies, there's like with the Wolf and
the Howling and the were Wolf of London and then
the old timey Transylvania. There's there's truth, there's myth, and
then there's just absolute human invention that comes from any
of these. So this research eventually led me to the
comparative mythology which I just went over, which falls into
linguistics and religious traditions and humanity's oldest stories. I explored
traditions from Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, the Minoan world, Celts, Norse
cultures which north have lots of the wolf, the barker.
The stories of the Canter's Prayer talks about this man
that was a canter that was often some remote village
and he's telling a story about his transformation into a wolf.
And that was sent to me in a message on
my website, not website, but my Facebook group Uncanny Crypto Cartographer,
but it was deleted afterwards, and it was the Canter's prayer.
And I studied that prayer and I could see how
that could relate to stories of dog Man, but all
the way back in the twelve hundreds.
Speaker 3: So during that I.
Speaker 1: Parallel my own knowledge, which is like the study of
wildlife behavior, tracking, bushcraft survival, forestry, ecology and geology and
landscape history.
Speaker 3: I'm a steward of the.
Speaker 1: Woods, and being a steward requires careful observation, and whenever possible,
I look for ordinary explanations before considering the extraordinary ones.
And that's why when I saw this being, I could
look past all of the mimicry that could be involved,
And honestly, I think that a lot of Sasquatch experiences
there is a mimic in the woods that gives people
what they want to hear. That mimic will give the
fear that these people need to have to experience when
they're in the woods. If you go out in the
woods looking for the Boogeyman, you're going to find a boogeyman.
However it may manifest for itself, and Lord help those
people that go out into the woods looking for dog man.
So over the years, I've interviewed researchers. I've connected with
many researchers. I have.
Speaker 3: Some ability to be able to find things on the map,
see things in a way.
Speaker 1: And yes, I do use technology as well, and I
look at my maps, I look at the coordinates, and
then I cross reference stories that are real to those
coordinates and experiences that can be gathered almost instantaneously by
the Internet. Most of us can do that, but there's
those who can just mimic it, and then there's that
can actually do what a lot of other people can't do.
And I'm not claiming to be the absolute expert. Neither
should anybody else that's in this field. These can be
campfire stories, and they can be myth and lore and
oral tradition, and it teaches about our sense of place,
who we are as people, and how we respond to
the world around us. So some people may conclude that
our experiences have a conventional explanation. Others may believe it
points towards something completely unknown and choose to keep it
as there.
Speaker 3: And I respect both perspectives.
Speaker 1: But as for me, on June thirteenth and twenty twenty,
that was the day my life work took a new direction.
It's not a mission to convince the world that Dogman exists. Instead,
it became a lifelong commitment of documenting witness accounts and
preserving forgotten history, and discovering history that.
Speaker 3: Might have not even been known completely bulldozed over.
Speaker 1: Now, whatever the answers may ultimately be, I believe these
accounts deserve thoughtful investigation rather than immediate dismissal. I will
always return to the mountains with wonder, but I no
longer walk into an old forest believing that we know
everything that lives within it.
Speaker 3: Thick and that's my story.
Speaker 2: Do you think the heat wave that you said was
going on when you had your encounter had anything to
do with you having it.
Speaker 3: No, the heat wave just drew us into the woods.
Speaker 1: And it was at a special spot in the woods
that we have always gone to.
Speaker 3: I think from what my perspective is is we were.
Speaker 1: On a path to go to Washington State, and Washington
State being a very spiritual place, a very limited place,
high concentrations of particular beings such as sasquatch. There are
dog men up there, but they're a different type than
the dog men in the Appalachian Mountains. The ones in
Washington State are more refined, definitive, extremely territorial, but they're
not seen very much, unlike the consistent stories that happened
with the encounters of a more feral and wild type
of dog man that are in the Appalachians.
Speaker 3: I do believe that it was the beginning.
Speaker 1: Ceremony, is the best way I could put it, the
door opening for our entry into Washington State and to
gain more knowledge to bring it back here and eventually
lead us to this conversation that we're having here.
Speaker 2: Why do you think it is that dog men in
the Appalachian Mountains are more territorial than they are in other.
Speaker 3: Areas population density.
Speaker 1: That is, basically there are more people that are in
on the eastern side of the United States, and the
deeper you go into unpopulated areas, it's still densely populated
and they're very guarded. In the last remnant spaces. Versus
Washington State, there's millions of acres and barely one person
would step anywhere in those millions of acres for years,
So they could have entire regions to themselves for years
and not be bothered. And so it's kind of like
the deer here, I will say, the deer in the
eastern United States, when they see a person, they run,
They just they bolt. They see you, they run, they huff,
they stump, they're out of there. If you go out west,
especially in areas like Port Townshend, the deer are as
common as New York pigeons. They will sit in the
middle of the road, they will walk up to your car,
they will sit.
Speaker 3: On your front porch. They're not afraid of you.
Speaker 1: And it's due to the population.
Speaker 3: There's not many people in Washington, so why would deer
have any fear of you. And it's the same way
with the dog man type there that they really have
no reason to show their territoriality because there's lines that
have divided that and people don't go into the woods
like they go into the woods here.
Speaker 1: You go into the woods in Washington State, there's bears
and cougars and wolves, and there's things that can eat you.
You will disappear in the woods. There are so many
people that disappear in those woods comparable to the amount
of people that the most dangerous thing here is you
got people and snakes and maybe a.
Speaker 3: Bear to hurt you in the woods, and just your
own indecisions and bad choices you make. So yeah, that's
that's how I see the reason dog Men is so
territorial of their places here.
Speaker 2: I don't want to put words into your mouth, but
it sounds like, and it would make really good sense
if this is what you're saying. It sounded to me
like you're saying that dog Men and the Appalachians are
more territorial because of all the people who are there
doing things that that perturbed them. And if that's the case,
what do you think it is that we do that
ticks them off more so than anything else.
Speaker 3: Well, we build, that's one thing. There's if you take
a look at.
Speaker 1: The area that is wrought with tie all types of
dog man stories. Is Land between the Lakes that was
an old settlement until the Forest Service decided to take
it over or whatever service that happened there. The Tendency
Authority took it over and they kicked everybody out. But
it's population and settlement and disregard for sacred areas, and
that's you know, if you go into the woods and
you're looking to instigate, and you're going down a trail
and you're knocking on trees and you're screaming or you're
flashing lights, and you know you're bringing all the stuff
that is unnatural. You know, you're beating the hoard's nest
on purpose, and you're gonna have an experience. And most people,
you know, they they're driving down the road and they're
having a good time, and similar to what we were
doing in the woods, but.
Speaker 3: Our good time was not intentional for bothering.
Speaker 1: There are researchers that go up there and they they
for the purpose of research to gather information. That's what happens.
They instigate it, and then the story happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like we're ruined anything that we touch,
and we're going to pristine areas. Before you know what,
there's trash laying around and we're cutting down trees. You
can't really blame them for not wanting us to be around.
That's understandable. If you've had a dog meaning encounter that
you need help dealing with, or if you'd like to
be a guest done the show, please go to Dogmanencounters
dot com and submit a report. If you've had a
bigfoot sighting, I'd like to be a guest on one
of my two big foot podcasts, please go to my
Bigfoot Sighting dot com. Earlier, you talked about the possibility
that dogmen sometimes serve as guard dogs to keep people
out of certain areas. Do you think the dog man
you saw that day let you see it because it
was trying to act as a guard dog, or do
you think it allowed you to see it for some
other reason.
Speaker 3: The guard dog wasn't that presence wasn't felt.
Speaker 1: I believe it allowed us to see it, because what
I saw it was the rock that was thrown by
the other being, the other sent and all the sasquatch
that was in the woods that I did not see
that my wife did see she did not see what
I saw, the dog Man entity what I originally called
the flicker eight because I didn't recognize it as being
the dog Man.
Speaker 3: Until later. I believe that the rock is what allowed
me to see it.
Speaker 1: It was there, but it kind of tried to go away,
and I think that was the flickering that I was seeing.
Was it trying to face but I was because I
was in the cold plunge, which the cold plunging of
water changes the way you see things, the way you
perceive the world around you. It's just a physiological thing
that happens to the body. And I also believe that's
kind of what attributed to instead of just seeing a
rock fall and then the creature behind the direction that
the rock was given me. It was there as a
silent observer because I've always been in the woods. And
it's similar to Jane Goodall. You know, she's in the
woods and she gains the trust of all the apes
and eventually the apes, you know, interact with her. It
was the same thing I believe happening here. I've always
been a child of the woods. The woods has never
been threatening to me at all ever, and that was
the first time that I saw something beyond my recognition
to categorize it as a man or bear or wolf
or some creature that is a physical being.
Speaker 3: And I was seeing this in my waking mind.
Speaker 1: I wasn't drunk, wasn't on any type of illicit drugs.
We were just having a good time swimming in the
water and we saw what we saw. And I think
this being that I saw is not per se the
same being that's always been around, but it's a similar
liminal energy that has always been next to me in
the woods.
Speaker 3: So no, I did not see this as being a threat.
Speaker 2: Well good, Well, I'm sure that's one of the many
reasons why you see that experience as a positive one.
And that's a good thing. If you saw that dogman
in that area that you and your wife liked to
go to, and it sounds to me like, again, I
don't want to put words into your mouth, but it
sounds to me like, just like with Jing Goodall, wanting
to spend time around chimps the way she did, to
build a level of familiarity to the point where they
would just start acting normal even though she was present.
Listening to you say the things you've said tonight is
one of the reasons why you go back to that
area time and time again to build a level of
familiarity with that dog mean you saw or is it
for some other reason.
Speaker 1: Confirmation is the main reason I went back to that
area after the experience. Now, prior to the experience we had,
we would go back just to swim because we truly
enjoyed those cold waters that we would swim in. And
that was the only reason we went back to that
area the second time and the last time that we
went to that area. The second time was to offer
our apologies for any transgressions that might have happened, so
we didn't get the so called hitchhiker effect, which would
be like the dog man staring in your window or
you know, finding scratches, you know, on your car in
the middle of the night and not wondering where that
came from. We went back to say our apologies, and
the last time, the final time we went back, was
to have a conformation that what happened there was real.
And the confirmation was I was pushed off that rock
and like fell backwards.
Speaker 3: But didn't hit any stone, didn't land on my butt.
Speaker 1: I recovered very easily, but I was pushed off that rock,
and my wife heard the voices that were in the brush.
There's nobody there, and it's miles and miles from any
known like trail that you can get on, so we
know when we hear people talking versus there's something there.
It's just a there's a feeling that's inside of you.
There's a feeling that the wood gives you that lets
you know if there's people in the woods or there's
something that you need to you need to leave. And
this time the last time, I won't say it was
a negative experience. It was just don't come back. You
got your confirmation you need to stop bothering us. And
that was what we got from that area is you
know we're here, Go find yourself another swimming hole.
Speaker 3: Please. Yeah.
Speaker 2: When they want to get a message across, they're masters
are doing that. They really are. If the dog man
you saw was able to flicker the way it did,
what do you think that dog man actually was a
spiritual being or some flesh and blood creature that has
special abilities.
Speaker 1: I believe at this point in with dog Man, over
the centuries and the eons and the millions of years,
that dog Man has been present on this plane of
reality that we know.
Speaker 3: Dog Man might have walked with our ancestors.
Speaker 1: There's pictures you can go, there's etchings, there's drawings, there's
lore of dog Man like side by side.
Speaker 3: With you know, humans.
Speaker 1: And the more you get closer to our time period
now the story changes and it becomes more malicious.
Speaker 3: And then eventually, as we.
Speaker 1: Are in this time period now in the two thousands,
dog Man is kind of phasing out of our reality.
Instead of being flesh and bone, it's becoming.
Speaker 3: More serial liminal.
Speaker 1: And what I saw, I believe was because of where
my state of mind was due to the cold plunging
that was happening. We were doing what was called wim
Hoff therapy, and wim Hoff is many people can look up,
is the aficionado of cold therapy and breathing therapy, and
it changes the way you see the world around you.
And inadvertently, by practicing this so we could go to
Washington it's women glacial waters and not have heart attacks,
it opened our mind to see something and it wasn't
on purpose. So we could see the dog manner sasquatch.
We had no clue what we were looking at in
any way, and I think what we saw was an
instantaneous flash of a reality that exists around us at
all times.
Speaker 2: Do you think that means that that dog man's able
to access other dimensions? Or by it flickering in and
out of existence here where we are, do you think
that means something else?
Speaker 1: As for dimensions, I totally believe that's where this being exists,
along with all the other liminal beings of folklore that
are worldwide.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what they can do. Then that would definitely
explain a lot, it really would. Being as young as
your daughter was when you had that encounter, are you
glad the dog man being there is lost on her
or do you wish you could compare notes with her
on what you saw that day?
Speaker 1: It's pretty much gone out of her memory. She was
a youngster and most kids of that age lose memory
of whatever they see, So yeah, she doesn't remember any
of it.
Speaker 3: It was just a happy day swimming in the woods.
Speaker 1: It kind of stayed like that, and she's not like
apprehensive about it or anything like, I don't remember this,
it's just it's just not there.
Speaker 2: I'm glad it just was a happy day swimming in
the woods to her. But at times. Do you wish
you could compare notes with her about the dog man
being there? Are you glad?
Speaker 3: I'm glad.
Speaker 1: It's neither here nor there. It's just one of those
memories that you know she doesn't have, and she might
have later. It was same as we might not have
remembered anything at.
Speaker 4: All, because for a year there was no memory of
that instant happening until we made it to Washington, and
it became by proxy of just being in Washington part
of the sasquatch experience there and.
Speaker 1: Speaking with people and people, you know, wondering if I
was looking at a juvenile sasquatch that it was protecting,
or you know, just so many other stories, you know,
kind of came out of the woodworks. And eventually, after
going back and forth on this and running into other
people and other researchers and other podcasters, it's becoming more
apparent that it was a dog man that I experienced,
and that the dog man has been around me my
entire life, not really shaping just kind of walking side
by side like a faithful dog in the woods, but
not coming out like wagging its tail and chasing balls
and doing anything else like that. It was just one
of those beings that I always enter the woods with respect.
The woods is full of medicine, the woods is full
of stories, the woods is full of healing, and the
woods can be full of just in reality.
Speaker 3: Mother Nature.
Speaker 1: She will take you out in a second without thinking
or blinking or realizing sometimes that you're just part of
the process. And there's been multitude of situations that I've
been in the woods that I could have been taken
out with the process. But I've never been taken out
with the process because I believe that that shadow that
I was allowed to see in the woods on June
thirteenth of twenty twenty was part of what has always
been in my life as a guardian in the woods.
And that might go against all the dog Man theories
of it being an absolute terror. Well, I don't know
what to say about that. It's not like I'm being
possessed by the dog Man or I'm you know, giving
the message to humanity that the dog Man has to present,
not being an advocate of dog Man, but also not being.
Speaker 3: You know, the hunter, the one that wants to go
out and hunt dog Man to prove that it's an
evil beast and have its head stuck on my wall.
Dog man is a guardian, and as we all know canines,
they are what they are. They can be feared or
they can be loved.
Speaker 2: As you know, Joe, there are a lot of people
out there who would envy you because you got to
see that dog me in and of course there are
a lot of people who would feel sorry for you.
It really is funny how that works. It really is. Now.
Seeing the dog mean is one thing, but having a
sasquatch close enough to you at that time to be
seen also, That really hints to me that the two
just might have been working together. And with that in mind,
do you think they.
Speaker 3: Were day that I have? I can ponder in both directions.
There's two sides to all stories. It can be neither
here nor there.
Speaker 1: There are some people that say that the stone was
thrown so I could see the dog man before it
jumped on me, and or that the stone was thrown
so I could see what I saw and it was
a confirmation of what I was about to go into
when I went to Washington, and for me to bring
back the knowledge not just for myself but to the
entire community. And however it may pass, so before it
gets all muddled and discompubulated. In my words, there's two
sides to all stories. And I do know that I'm
not going back there again. Other people can find it,
however they may. I'm not giving exact directions to the place,
but it's there, and if you're meant to go there,
you'll find it. But if you go there and consistently
poke the dog that lives there, you're gonna get pushed back,
just like I did when I got pushed back on
that rock.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully no one does find that, dear you, and
wind up poking the beer. That wouldn't be good or
a good idea.
Speaker 3: That's right, not at all.
Speaker 2: Now. You've mentioned your wife and the role that she
played in what happened that day quite a bit here today,
But I still don't know. Is she glad that she
didn't see that dog me in or does she seem
to be glad she is?
Speaker 1: Yep, she's absolutely glad that she did not see what
I saw. There is some sort of sort of deep
down aversion against having a dog man experience.
Speaker 3: She's not she's not ready for that to happen in
her lives.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what they say, know thine own self.
It's good that she does know herself well enough to
know she couldn't handle that.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: You told us about the things you do to try
to follow sasquatch etiquette. But are there certain things you
do to try to find some kind of a dog
mannetiquette when you're in the areas where they might be.
Speaker 5: That I'm still figuring out, because whatever I did when
I went back to the to the experienced spot, I
was out of place and.
Speaker 1: I got shown that I was out of place. Etiquette
or the canine, I would suspect it would be the
same as anything that we have that is solid existing
being on this planet, which would be the wolf or
any type of dog that's feral. Learn its ways, and
pretty much the way of the wolf is you keep
your distance away and you never look at it in
the eye, always look away from it, and respect the
fear that it puts into you when you feel it,
just as you would do with any dog. You are
you going to jump the fence when there's a pit
bull on the other side, garden in the junkyard, No,
you're just gonna look at it and maybe next time
you come with a bone. But even if you give
that dog a bone. If you jump over that fence,
it's are going to get you. It's going to eat
the bone too, but it's going to get you. So
if that could be like somehow translated into dog man etiquette,
and there should be no reason people are looking for
this thing.
Speaker 2: I like the examples you give when it comes to
dog men. It does seem like common sense would be
pretty much the only thing you would need to know
to follow some kind of dog man etiquette, if there
is such a thing. Have the Native Americans who told
you about the stick Indians ever told you about face
eaters at all?
Speaker 1: No, that's that's never that, that's a new one. Face eaters. Nope,
I have not heard of face eaters.
Speaker 3: Face eaters.
Speaker 2: They have other names too. Some people call them gugway.
Other people call them type three dog men. They are
purported to be really dangerous. They can look a lot
like sad watch, but they have claws and they have
sharp teeth. Some people say they don't always have claws,
but every case I've ever heard about had them having claws.
But in certain regions, if you ask about dog men,
that's what people will think of. They don't think about
what we're talking about tonight with the Candid style legs.
They think about type threes face eaters with Rahamanid style legs.
But yeah, I wasn't sure if you'd heard about them
or not.
Speaker 3: I have myself.
Speaker 1: I've developed a similar theory, but I never called them
face eaters. There's the name that keeps on rising up
in my own research, and it's a Varger and it's
a v A R g R. And that came about
while I was making discussions with dog Man.
Speaker 3: Tpe Hunter Phil from the UK.
Speaker 1: And Burger came from the message I was given about
the Canter's prayer and I looked up Burger and Burger
is if there's particular Sasquatch clans, not all of them all.
There's many different types and variations, but there's a particular
clan that when they're on their life cycle, their journey,
they gather weight. And when people find the Sasquatch footprints,
that is the last moment the Sasquatch has in this reality,
this plane of existence, but it's carrying.
Speaker 3: The world, the way to the world.
Speaker 1: In its very being, and the imprint is the last thing,
the last thing that is left before the sasquatch starts
to cycle back over again, what I call the unraveling,
and then it emerges somewhere in the forest again out
of the fog. I'm not sure the process, but no
one has ever found remains, no bones, no flesh, no
dead bodies of a sasquatch. So there has to be
a different type of cycle that these beings go through.
And there is an interruption that happens sometimes, and this
is due to human influence, whether it's innocent bystanders researchers.
Squatch becomes attracted to campgrounds, it becomes like the trash bear.
There's an interruption in that being's life cycle and it
misses the chance to unravel and started cycle over again
as a forrest guardian, because it's being influenced by human
activity around it.
Speaker 3: Whether it's intentional or non intentional.
Speaker 1: The particular clans, they become like the face eater, which
I called the barker, and they can be misidentified as
a dog man. And I've came to the belief that
it's not the sasquatch that trans forms into the dog man.
There is the dog man entity, the energy, the archetype,
the liminal being is already in the woods and they
kind of meld together and become this other being which
you referred to as the face eater.
Speaker 3: And that's what people are explaining.
Speaker 1: And this is the first time I've ever heard of
this from another individual because I've kept this theory about
how the sasquatch and dog man can like become one until.
Speaker 3: They stop getting bothered.
Speaker 2: It just seems so counterintuitive to ever bother something like that.
It's so formidable, but people do all sorts of crazy things,
things I just never will understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, five hundred pounds being in the middle of the
woods that could pick up a current throw why somebody,
It's just who we are. We need humans need to
see what's hiding in the shadows, and we're very attracted
to what scares us, or what can be uncovered, or
the oral traditions of stories that.
Speaker 3: Have never been told. And what's the most memoriable thing
about going camping. It's the scary campfire story. And that's where.
Speaker 1: There's the intersection between humans in the liminal existence. So
we might not ever find evidence, but we always have
the experience that can't be explained.
Speaker 2: You're right, it's always going to be that way, and
of course, touching on what you said just a moment ago,
we always have to poke the beer. That's just part
of human nature, Joe. If any of the listeners who've
had a dog me on sideing will like to contact
you to share their sightings with you, what's the best
way for them to do that.
Speaker 1: They can go onto my Facebook and look for uncanny
Crypti cartographer and it's a mouthful, but it's on there,
and they can contact me through there, or look on
my Facebook job ass and then there's the group that's
linked to me. That's the best way they can find.
And it needs to be known that the best thing
for me to do for them to do is if
they could give me a coordinate of where this was seen.
It doesn't have to be the exact coordinate. I know
that that secrecy is a very necessary thing in a
lot of people's lives because people are scared. They don't
want other people going out there. Like I said, I'm
not giving up where experience was because one, I'm not
afraid that people will go out there and ruin everything
and trash it. I'm worried that someone will go out
there and have a very negative experience that I was
not intending for them to have. So I don't want
to be responsible for anybody's safety when they go out
to have their own research experiences. So I want to
give to the public that if they don't feel comfortable
giving me the location, that's fine. They can share a story.
They can give me a general idea that if they
live in Ohio or if they live in California, just
give me a mountain or something a land form of
where this experience happened. Because the geographic area the way
I do my research points to a lot of things
that people can see if they know what they're looking for.
And that's what I use my in depth knowledge of
and then partial its instinct others. It's the way knowledge
comes to me is so random that I can't really
put my finger on how I can put my finger
on things and locate things and give descriptions for things
that can be.
Speaker 3: I would say ninety eight percent correct.
Speaker 1: And that's how I help people identify what they're experiencing
and not have them be doing something else that might
cause them harm or the environment that they're living in harm.
Speaker 2: You might not be able to explain how you do that,
but sounds like gift, and you should be glad to
have that gift.
Speaker 3: Thank you. You had the same gift pick well.
Speaker 2: Thank you, but I definitely don't have that gift. It's
awfully nice of you to say, though. Before I ask
you for your closing comments, Joe, please plug your show
for us one more time and tell us how we
can listen to it.
Speaker 1: The show is still in development and that's where I
need to It's on pause at the moment. I'm still
developing my YouTube show. It's more focused on the Facebook
group at this time, and if you can catch me
on other podcasts with other podcasters at the moment, that
is where the listeners can find me. Similar to you know,
Liminal being that's in the woods, You're going to have
to follow breadcrumbs to follow the Uncanny Cryptic Cartographer because
technical difficulties and glitches tend to happen that have blocked
me to creating a substantial network when it comes to
digital communication such as podcast. So far, I've been able
to get away with the Uncanny Cryptic Cartographer, and as
we had discussed before, there have been other remnant things
that happened that kind of put blocks up so far,
and I'm trying to figure out what those digital glitches
are that stop me from expressing my story in a
format such as this.
Speaker 2: Wow, Joe, it's hard enough to do what you do
as it is. I'm so sorry to hear about the glitches.
I just hope they stop soon. Yeah, yeah, that'd be
really nice. Well, before we get out of here, do
you have any clothing comments you want to put out
there for us?
Speaker 3: Those in comment for those individuals and that search for
dog Man, to keep an open mind, treats in your pocket,
and keep to your side of the fence, and know
when to go home.
Speaker 2: Those are good words of wisdom. And it's clear you
put a lot of thought into this, Joe. This has
been a lot of fun. It really has. Please remember,
if I can never help you out in the future,
just let me know and I'll be there for you.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you Vick and saying to you, oh.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it, and I'll keep that in mind. But
having said that, thanks again so much for your time,
and have a great night.